Some thoughts on growth, development, and "Too big"

[Goldwingnut]

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.

Don, we watched off YouTube on our 86” flatscreen. Wow. Simply amazing how they continue on and on. Mind boggling construction expanding TV further…. When will it stop???

When we moved into our newly built house in Gilchrist in 2014 there was semi-serious talk re Buildout. No further expansion South of 44.

Not complaining but the stress on various utilities and roads will compound. Traffic will be tough, esp from non-TV expansion across our borders.

Don, great job as always. Nothing like your birds-eye views and commentary!!!

I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

[Bogie Shooter]

Don, you have made many positive contributions to TOTV over the years. This post is just another example.
Thank you, for sharing your knowledge and insight in the planning of our community.

[JohnN]

very interesting, thanks

[Altavia]

Excellent synthesis Don, truly an amazing story.

The continued innovation throughout the years is part of what brought is here.

[Stu from NYC]

Thank you very enlightening

[alwann]

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

As for your question - we moved into a pre-owned in the "Historic" section for precisely the reason that we wanted something that was lived-in and established. There wasn't enough money or perks in the world to convince us to move to the new sections. Even now that you've crossed Florida's Turnpike and 44, the furthest south I'd even consider would be the northern half of the O'Dell circle. And that'd be pretty iffy. It would definitely not be my first choice but I'd consider it, if we ever decided to move from our current location.

In addition, not everyone profited off their jobs and saved up to afford to live here. Many of us borrowed. Some of us are paying mortgages, and there are plenty of Villagers who still work for a living because they can't afford to retire yet, or aren't old enough for social security benefits yet, and never earned enough to invest like some of you have. Some of us were fortunate enough to have bought our northern homes at what was a reasonable price at the time - not as an investment, but as a home we lived in for 10+ years. And were equally fortunate to be able to sell that home for more than we paid for it - which wasn't a business decision, it's just how the market was at the time we ended up being forced to move when we lost our jobs due to company closures and a tight hiring environment in mostly-obsolete skilled trades. After paying off the balance of the mortgage, we had enough to pay a sizeable portion of our Florida home, but nowhere near the full amount.

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting something shiny and new to call their own in their retirement. But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous. The good news, is that SOME of those construction workers will still be needed to replace homes in the -northern- part of the Villages, as they start wearing down and need replacing. But if everyone working for the construction company (which has direct ties to the developer don't forget - so this is totally not a selfless act, the developer makes mega-bucks) is living in the southern-most areas, they're going to have the same kind of commute to get to work in the northern area, than they have now living 30+ miles from the current construction.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

[Papa_lecki]

There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages.

The Villages companies are worth BILLIONS, believe me, someone will buy the company, once the grandkids decide they had enough - but I would guess that is not for another 20 or 30 years.

If the rumors are correct, the Villages owns enough land to build for 20 or 30 years. I have no way to validate that.

[FenneyFanatic]

Always the voice of reason..

[Stu from NYC]

The Villages companies are worth BILLIONS, believe me, someone will buy the company, once the grandkids decide they had enough - but I would guess that is not for another 20 or 30 years.

If the rumors are correct, the Villages owns enough land to build for 20 or 30 years. I have no way to validate that.

They will keep building for more years than we will be around. They are making tons of money so why would anyone think they should or would stop building. Lots of open land in Florida and who really knows how much land they do own?

[spinner1001]

But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous.

This is a straw man fallacy.
Straw Man Fallacy | Excelsior Online Writing Lab (https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/)

Please stop. No one said the developer is doing things for only altruistic reasons, which is what you imply. That’s just silly.

The profit motive of capitalism does come with altruistic benefits. It has brought much of the world out of extreme poverty. Is it perfect? No, it has blemishes certainly. But other systems have performed worse.

It’s a time to celebrate. We live in the most prosperous and healthiest time in human history.


It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

Nonsense. This is a similar argument that capitalism is not sustainable and will kill the planet. The argument is often made by anti-capitalists with socialist leanings. Again, capitalism has blemishes but things are very unlikely to collapse.

For those who want to learn more about whether capitalism is sustainable, here is a (long) lecture from a Duke University professor.
https://youtu.be/6dVSOIiO_U8

(I suspect that cherry picked counter examples are about to come.)

[Taltarzac725]

The number of seniors needing continued medical care will grow as the age of the Villagers increases. That will bring in more home care workers, nurses, physicians, social workers, physical therapists, and businesses to feed, cloth, transport, house and entertain them. As well as educate their kids.

Would put in the suggestion that the Villages needs at least two open movie theaters for this growing population.

The construction industry will reach a point where there are not many more new houses to build.

[Ecuadog]

Thank you, Don.

[Altavia]

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

Really?

If you watch Don's videos, amenities continue to be built first...

[Bill14564]

I'm sorry, but this sounds a lot like Monday morning quaterbacking by a fan of the Developer. The Developer did this so it must have been planned and more, it must be a good thing.

There is too much to cover and I don't have the motivation to do the research so just a couple of thoughts:

- The Developer did not own the land south of 44 and had no reason to believe they would acquire the land. Stating that there would be no development south of 44 was an assumption but it was a reasonable assumption. It is certainly likely that the Developer desired to continue building (that's their business after all) but it wasn't a certainty that they would be able to.

- If Brownwood could not exist without all the development south of 44 then how can Spanish Springs exist without miles and miles of development north of 441?

- The restaurants and the square in Brownwood seemed busy four years ago before most of the homes south of 44 existed; it didn't seem like it was going out of business. Now, Brownwood seems overcrowded and many of us are hoping that Sawgrass takes off and Eastport is built soon to relieve the pressure.

[Bill14564]

Really?

If you watch Don's videos, amenities continue to be built first...

My home about a mile north of Brownwood was built in 2014. Brownwood Paddock Square opened two years earlier in 2012. Can the same be said for the Sawgrass or Eastport?

I have no idea about the timing of the homes and golf courses around Brownwood or Lake Sumter Landing but I get the impression that there are a lot of homes south of 44 with few courses. There appear to be seven executive courses and three championship courses between 466A and 44. There appear to be only five executive courses and one championship course to support all the development south of 44. It looks like more are being built but they are not being built first.

[TomPerry]

Don, you are spot on! As a retired CPA/Financial Advisor who has advised many successful business clients, I can say your thoughtful and detailed explanation is the most complete and well said answer to those who think The Villages is getting too big and the developers are only thinking of making more money. You make me proud that I voted for you!!

[Goldwingnut]

Nowhere here am I saying that the developer isn't doing this for the money, because they most certainly are, nor am I saying that the developer is being altruistic because they are not, what I am saying is that they understand their business, that they understand how governments and communities think and react, and that doing what is perceived as good for the community as a whole and by playing the long game is a good investment in their own business.
They have another 20+ years of growth in the current Villages as we know it based on current known and anticipated land ownership. They have many thousands of additional acres owned throughout Sumter and surrounding counties, what their plans are, are well guarded secrets. What is certain is that local civic leaders need to be planning ahead for the time when the developer starts to change direction and our local economies need to take a different tack from the current course. But who knows, another 20 years is another 70,000+ homes, this will probably be the retirement capital of the world, should we all be fortunate to live so long, it will be interesting to watch happen.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Nowhere here am I saying that the developer isn't doing this for the money, because they most certainly are, nor am I saying that the developer is being altruistic because they are not, what I am saying is that they understand their business, that they understand how governments and communities think and react, and that doing what is perceived as good for the community as a whole and by playing the long game is a good investment in their own business.
They have another 20+ years of growth in the current Villages as we know it based on current known and anticipated land ownership. They have many thousands of additional acres owned throughout Sumter and surrounding counties, what their plans are, are well guarded secrets. What is certain is that local civic leaders need to be planning ahead for the time when the developer starts to change direction and our local economies need to take a different tack from the current course. But who knows, another 20 years is another 70,000+ homes, this will probably be the retirement capital of the world, should we all be fortunate to live so long, it will be interesting to watch happen.

That's a fair response to my concerns. I am still conflicted with what "local civic leaders" need to do, because it's pretty much common knowledge that the family that runs the Developer, the mortgage company, the bank, the insurance broker, a financial stake in the construction company, a sizeable chunk of the county's land, and the real estate that leases to the majority of businesses in or near the borders of the Villages - has some major influence over what "the local civic leaders" choose to do.

They do what the Developer wants them to do.

[jimdecastro]

When I was looking at TV, I asked my Dad about a month before he died about its size as a concern. His answer (paraphrased).

"It is not a 100,000 people in a city, it is 50 or so communities. You will know many of yours but not many 2-3 Villages away. In West Islip, you don't even know the guy down the block. Put another way, I lived in Brooklyn. But I didn't grow up in Brooklyn - or even Williamsburg. I grew up on Stockholm St."

Wise Man.

[TomPerry]

My home about a mile north of Brownwood was built in 2014. Brownwood Paddock Square opened two years earlier in 2012. Can the same be said for the Sawgrass or Eastport?

I have no idea about the timing of the homes and golf courses around Brownwood or Lake Sumter Landing but I get the impression that there are a lot of homes south of 44 with few courses. There appear to be seven executive courses and three championship courses between 466A and 44. There appear to be only five executive courses and one championship course to support all the development south of 44. It looks like more are being built but they are not being built first.
The Village of Richmond was built AFTER Sawgrass Grove Opened and a couple of years AFTER the Executive Courses and Southern Oaks Championship Golf Course and AFTER Magnolia Plaza and AFTER Edna’s On The Green. To expect all those amenities be opened before THE FIRST HOME is built is Nuts! Amenities are built in conjunction with the building of homes.

[Laker14]

When I was looking at TV, I asked my Dad about a month before he died about its size as a concern. His answer (paraphrased).

"It is not a 100,000 people in a city, it is 50 or so communities. You will know many of yours but not many 2-3 Villages away. In West Islip, you don't even know the guy down the block. Put another way, I lived in Brooklyn. But I didn't grow up in Brooklyn - or even Williamsburg. I grew up on Stockholm St."

Wise Man.

I see your point, and I agree with it. One day a golfing buddy mentioned to me that viewed from the satellite images ,The Villages looks like a huge area all covered with similar looking homes , and all you can see is roofs.

I said, yeah, but I don't live up there. I live down here, in a neighborhood with trees. I grew up in a suburb of Cincinnati, and I lived on my street, and went to my school, in the northeast quadrant of Greater Cincinnati. I never went to the other suburban communities that existed on the western fringes.

Here in TV I live a 40 minute cart ride from Lopez, and an equal distance from Southern Oaks. I don't see myself needing to commute any farther than that to play golf. As they build courses farther away than Southern Oaks, I will play them only rarely, as a novelty, and probably drive a car. I'd treat it like a road trip.

I don't see a problem there.

I am a bit concerned about what seems to be a trend to build the common areas with less quality (e.g. the MMPs) and a system that I don't understand but according to Don Wiley's explanation, puts those of us south of 466 and north of 44 on the hook to maintain them when they fail. Not crazy about that, but in the bigger picture, a relatively small price to pay for the overall value I derive from living in TV.

[dewilson58]

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

Very effective.
The strategy continued South.
Golf, pools, rec. centers, pickle, etc., were all constructed first.

[NoMo50]

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

I don't buy that theory, and further, I'm glad I don't wake up every day with such a pessimistic attitude toward our community.

The Developer is just what the word implies...a developer of property. When a particular area's development has been completed, the communities are turned over to a CDD. The Developer never intended to be a mother hen, looking after her flock into perpetuity.

Ever hear of Del Webb? They are another successful developer of retirement communities, albeit with a totally different strategy. Del Webb communities tend to be smaller, and more isolated/individual as compared to The Villages. Once Del Webb completes a project/development, they vacate the area and turn the whole project over to an HOA. Yet, they continue to prosper and be popular even without their mother hen.

I, for one, am glad The Villages developer has opted to play the long game, and I hope they continue to make a profit. Their business model is what has provided the communities we all call home. Their continued success means that we will continue to enjoy the benefits that brought us here in the first place.

[RobinM]

Thank you for taking the time for this.

[talonip]

Thank you for your insight. As usual you are right on. We have lived here for almost 10 years and love seeing the new areas being developed. However that doesn’t mean that we turn our backs on some areas of concern.

First is the 462 and 466A intersection. That is going to be disaster on Sundays. We go to church at St Vincent. It is becoming insane getting to and especially getting out on Sunday. The pastor says they are gonna cut a new exit out to 134. That will help a little but when all that new development opens on 462 it will get unbearable.

Secondly the entrance to St John’s at the okahumka rec center is going to be a real problem. If you drive your car to get your mail you are faced with having to use the round a bout to get back in when the card reader goes into effect. Poor planning. In my opinion. If you haven’t heard about this take a drive and study the traffic pattern coming out and going back into the village.

By the way I think we need to decide if Harry is going build his restaurant at okuhumka rec and if not clean up that area. It looks like a dump for construction materials

[Bill14564]

The Village of Richmond was built AFTER Sawgrass Grove Opened and a couple of years AFTER the Executive Courses and Southern Oaks Championship Golf Course and AFTER Magnolia Plaza and AFTER Edna’s On The Green. To expect all those amenities be opened before THE FIRST HOME is built is Nuts! Amenities are built in conjunction with the building of homes.

The Village of Richmond that just opened in the past few months? Yes, all those things were built before Richmond but so were many hundreds of other homes in the area. I was reading these boards as people south of 44 and south of the turnpike were lamenting the absence of bridges to get to Brownwood, any form of town square, and any shopping at all. Plus, Sawgrass and Edna's are not equivalent to a Brownwood. Richmond is not even close to the FIRST HOME built.

To expect those amenities to be open before the first home may be NUTS but it is the very definition of "amenities continue to be built first."

[DanMac58]

"To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival."

"But my house should have been the last one built" LOL

Thank you, Don, for your service to our community

[GizmoWhiskers]

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Great info and explanations. We thank you for them.

On a smaller scale and remembering the residents that HAVE scraped to live here, those sold on the "lifestyle"...

They can build a city. Can they open a movie theater so residents, sold on the "lifestyle" of say driving a golf cart to a movie with the grand-kids can do so??

Seriously, it's not about workers or covid, plenty of elderly people were working there to subsidize income. Cost to purchase a movie to run it? Nah, can't be cost could it? They can build a city.

The Brownwood theater is gorgeous and is a perfect eample of TV developers, moving on. What's the excuse when they can move mountains and change the world for years to come. Villagers saying "Leesburg theater is great..." - WHAT??? DOES the trolley tour go to Leesburg now?

Call it a trivial "first world problem" if one wants but it is a fair example of they build and move on. S of 44, you can see a BIG change brewing that will impact the parts of T V where they have moved on.

[Travelhunter123]

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Is there a “readers digest”version of this

[Bridget Staunton]

Don as always thank you for your insight. I always read your posts

[rustyp]

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Is there a “readers digest”version of this

Yes - "It's good to be king".

[Topgun 1776]

In the end, all the conjecture and musings mean nothing. We live in a wonderful place. Growth and change is inevitable. If we don't like it at any point, we can sell and move. It's as simple as that.

[GizmoWhiskers]

My home about a mile north of Brownwood was built in 2014. Brownwood Paddock Square opened two years earlier in 2012. Can the same be said for the Sawgrass or Eastport?

I have no idea about the timing of the homes and golf courses around Brownwood or Lake Sumter Landing but I get the impression that there are a lot of homes south of 44 with few courses. There appear to be seven executive courses and three championship courses between 466A and 44. There appear to be only five executive courses and one championship course to support all the development south of 44. It looks like more are being built but they are not being built first.
$$$ in Champion courses not Executive courses. As they crowd Clermont and reach toward Orlando and Kissimmee.. "If you build Champion courses, they will come."

[Altavia]

The Village of Richmond that just opened in the past few months? Yes, all those things were built before Richmond but so were many hundreds of other homes in the area. I was reading these boards as people south of 44 and south of the turnpike were lamenting the absence of bridges to get to Brownwood, any form of town square, and any shopping at all. Plus, Sawgrass and Edna's are not equivalent to a Brownwood. Richmond is not even close to the FIRST HOME built.

To expect those amenities to be open before the first home may be NUTS but it is the very definition of "amenities continue to be built first."

By definition Amenities are things made possible by the bonds and are built first.

Restaurants, stores, etc. are commercial development built once the population reaches the critical mass for profitable business.

Given land south of the Turnpike was primarily populated by cattle, things didn't take off until that critical mass was achieved. The Fenny pioneers did wait a long time for more local business to open.

Further complicated by the seasonal population changes here.

Over 100 new homes continue to be sold a week. The commercial developers may have underestimated the growth rate. As soon as a new business, opens, it fills with customers day one.

Three years of this was in the middle of COVID, but growth continued at substantial risk to the developers.

As a side note, (The village of) Leesburg is just 15 min away from current construction so there is plenty of established shopping and restaurants closer than north of 466A.

[Veracity]

Thank you, Don, for sharing your knowledge and thank you for your service as a county commissioner. I enjoy the Goldwingnut videos and I am looking forward to your Spring Fling charity event at the Polo Fields on March 18th in memory of your son. Your hard work - on every level - is very much appreciated.

[amexsbow]

Speaking as one who lives in a Major Developer community, there are some big differences I have noticed about this one which is now run by an HOA and TV. The quality of the construction here and of TV couldn't be more different. Our HOA has sustained extreme costs associated with the poor quality of construction above and beyond that of inflation. The smaller the community the more some vocal groups become the only voices heard. As a result we are looking to relocate to the villages. I have some experience in home construction and from my observations of what is being built in TV is far better than what is being offered by some Major Builders of retirement communities.

[NotGolfer]

Great post Don Wiley! We moved here nearly 14 yrs ago so have seen the growth. I'm happy the developer has a vision and puts plans into place. So many of our friends who've come can't believe this place. I think they envisioned manufactured homes instead of the ones we have in place. We've seen amenities added---the hospital, medical clinics, school and businesses. Some of these were here and had additions put in. I've never understood the mentality of first buying then wanting to change everything from the governance to infrastructure and just the way of doing business.
All this said, I'm still in contact via social media with the community we moved here from. The comments up there could be inter-changed with here. Complaints of growth, of traffic, how badly people drive, round-abouts----ALL the same as here. Oh, add in the healthcare too. When we left up there---medical care was great. NOW people are asking where are the doctors going and why did they leave??!!! Same as here! Frankly I'm very happy with our retirement decisions so have to wonder what utopia people think they're getting. Just a rhetorical question to cast out there. One I have is---were y'all happy where you once came from and if so, why did you move?? Whatt were/are your expectations once you did??

[Rent From A Villager]

Thanks Don for your continued updates in insights!

[karenzeee]

Thanks Don for your continued updates and insights! Always a good read.

[twoplanekid]

Don stated
"Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this."

For the Developer to sell the utility infrastructure to a public agency at a fair price is OK. However, in my opinion that has not happened with many purchases NSCUDD has made with the developer.

[Cybersprings]

Great info and explanations. We thank you for them.

On a smaller scale and remembering the residents that HAVE scraped to live here, those sold on the "lifestyle"...

They can build a city. Can they open a movie theater so residents, sold on the "lifestyle" of say driving a golf cart to a movie with the grand-kids can do so??

Seriously, it's not about workers or covid, plenty of elderly people were working there to subsidize income. Cost to purchase a movie to run it? Nah, can't be cost could it? They can build a city.

The Brownwood theater is gorgeous and is a perfect eample of TV developers, moving on. What's the excuse when they can move mountains and change the world for years to come. Villagers saying "Leesburg theater is great..." - WHAT??? DOES the trolley tour go to Leesburg now?

Call it a trivial "first world problem" if one wants but it is a fair example of they build and move on. S of 44, you can see a BIG change brewing that will impact the parts of T V where they have moved on.


Good point. I think the villages should have kept the theater open and REQUIRED every resident to attend it regularly so that it would remain sustainable. Ask those grandkids when the last time they went to the movie theater back home was (vs streaming on their ipads or TVs).

[Beyond The Wall]

Really?

If you watch Don's videos, amenities continue to be built first...

Wrong amenities being built first

Need another
“Full size square” south of 44.
Just looked through open tee times for Thursday. 85% of available time are on pitch and putts! Obvious need for more Executive courses , especially south of 44!

[Goldwingnut]

By definition Amenities are things funded by the bonds and are built first.



This is incorrect, the bonds build the infrastructure needed to support the community but not the amenities.

The amenities are funded by the developer who then owns and operates them as a portion of their business portfolio. In that construction cost is also a proportionate share of the infrastructure cost. The amenities are not a part of the respective neighboring CDD. The CDD lines are drawn around these properties and exclude them.

If the bond funds were used to build the amenities, those amenities would then be a part of the CDD issuing the bonds. But they aren't, so they don't.

The bonds do, however, make the amenities possible. The developer is able to recoup the development costs quickly by billing the costs to the CDD who then pays them from the funds raised by the sale of the bonds. The developer doesn't have their money tied up in water lines, retention ponds, roads, and sewer pipes for the duration of the sale cycle. This frees up cash to allow the building of the amenities. Without this methodology, we would be no different than most other communities where the salesman showing a lot would make statements like "over there will be the green for the 7th hole that will be built next year", something that frequently fails to materialize due to cash flow issues.

The discussion of the bonds could go on for quite a while, their merits and their pitfalls can be argued ad nauseum, but some things are very clear:
1) they are highly valued by investors and usually sell out within hours of being offered.
2) You will pay for these infrastructure costs one way or the other, either as a separate bond like we do here in The Villages or as a cost rolled into the final cost of the home (the developer NEVER pays any of these costs, they pass them through).
3) The cash flow position created by the issuing of bonds has had a very positive impact on the development of The Villages, and I would argue that without them, The Villages would not and could not exist as the successful development that it is today.

[jimjamuser]

I would like to comment on 2 separate, but related issues brought out in this thread - GROWTH and CRIME.
........Stated in about the 4th paragraph from the end, "Growth is INEVITABLE". Just as some humor........I was taught that ONLY DEATH and TAXES were inevitable. Now to be serious - at a micro level (The Villages growth) may be or seem to be inevitable - I could agree with that. But, at a macro level GROWTH in general depends on the continuing growth of the POPULATION of the US. I often use the term OPTIMAL population growth. For example, does China have the OPTIMAL growth for itself - apparently NOT as is apparent from the CLOUDS of pollution seen over ALL their big cities? America and Americans do NOT want their country to become OVERPOPULATED as China is. In China, right now, their government IS begging its population to have MORE children. And the people are saying NO. Their lives SUCK partly because they have gone PAST their point of OPTIMAL population. THAT is obvious to even myself, an ordinary citizen!
.........So, I put in that 1st paragraph as proof that things turn "and go south" when a population (any population, even Lemmings) exceeds its OPTIMAL NUMBER. Incidentally, that is why NATURE and Lemmings control ANIMAL POPULATIONS the way that it does. Why IS that important, you ask? Because mankind (humans) can fail to follow the laws of NATURE (AND POPULATIONS) for a LIMITED amount of time before things go "haywire". Think about CO2 killing coral reefs and dead spots in the Gulf of MEXICO. And record temperatures in the Gulf last year. And Global Warming that is predicted for the next 8 to 30 years.
........Florida is VERY VULNERABLE to HEAT increases as we saw with Hurricane IAN. Many northern visitors that WOULD buy property in the Villages are turned off by the summer HEAT and the prospects for KILLER hurricanes and tornadoes in the increasing HEAT of the Florida summers. Plus humidity, which is hard on an elderly person's body and health. Many of these people are looking to North and South Carolina as better locations with a temperate climate as opposed to a "HEAT chamber" like Florida!
.........What then is the OPTIMAL population for the US? I would propose that like China, we are PAST that number. 250 MILLION would be my best guess as to the Optimal US population. Note that US women are delaying having children so as to advance their careers. NOW, of course, the US can ALWAYS get migrants (legal or otherwise) because the US is a magnet for that - we are the "Gold Mountain" in their eyes. But, the question is whether large-scale immigration is going to be OPTIMAL from a numbers and EVEN a "changing demographic" basis ?
........The overall POINT IS that there are factors that could mitigate in the future AGAINST the "GROWTH is INEVITABLE" proposition.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

So I’m guessing you’re planning to sell to avoid this? Values are good, even in the historical section. Might be a good time to cut bait.

[Velvet]

I understand that some people bought in TV to retire to a quiet community for the rest of their lives. For some it’s not going to happen. TV promotes activities, fun etc not so much geriatric care. Just look at the layout. Then the population. Not everyone expected huge growth and the good and bad that comes with it. People appreciate the more and higher quality service, better choice at stores and good restaurants. For these events there has to be sustainable numbers in the population. But, it comes at a cost, more traffic, more line ups, more like the big city.

Some of the big city services are lagging in TV, for example, sidewalks and public transportation just to name two. And the city of TV is oriented towards the younger people, in my opinion, the ones who buy the houses. The ones who will play golf, softball, water volleyball. The houses are built to accommodate aging, one level, bars, wide doorways etc. But in practice you can only stay here if either you are independent or if you become dependent, you have a caregiver. Often it is the husband that becomes dependent as the wives tend to be younger. We have many widows in TV, single older women. They can leave, find independent or nursing care especially if they can’t drive. I suppose there could be a larger effort made to keep these people. More services. Build more independent care etc so they could stay with their friends who have now become their “family”. But that would perhaps not be quite as lucrative.

[Marathon Man]

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

Ah yes. The myth that will not die.

[Jayhawk]

They will keep building for more years than we will be around. They are making tons of money so why would anyone think they should or would stop building.

Exactly right. And why should they?

[jrandall]

Thank you for this well written explanation of the planned growth of the County, including The Villages, which is spot on! I for one, who moved from Miami 11 years ago , am grateful to live in The Villages and Sumter County. I am grateful for the Developers who have maintained a beautiful location for all of us for 30+ years and they continue. I have lived in other developments in Florida during my 48 years here and when the developers are done they pack ip and leave. Within 5 years the development doesn’t look like it did when you bought there. A resident Board takes over the Homeowners Association. Things deteriorate from there. I am grateful for the professionalism of the County and other surrounding city leadership and look forward to remaining here until The Lord takes me home. Thank you for your service Commissioner. You and the leadership Team of Sumter County have my support as you work with the community to ensure we remain a solvent and vibrant with keeping crime down as a high priority.


QUOTE =Goldwingnut;2197117]I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.[/QUOTE]

[jrandall]

The Commissioner said that it is ok for a business to make a profit and of course they have benefitted well. That is because they have produced a model of community living that thousands have found desirable. However they have stayed and grown with the population. I am grateful.




QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

As for your question - we moved into a pre-owned in the "Historic" section for precisely the reason that we wanted something that was lived-in and established. There wasn't enough money or perks in the world to convince us to move to the new sections. Even now that you've crossed Florida's Turnpike and 44, the furthest south I'd even consider would be the northern half of the O'Dell circle. And that'd be pretty iffy. It would definitely not be my first choice but I'd consider it, if we ever decided to move from our current location.

In addition, not everyone profited off their jobs and saved up to afford to live here. Many of us borrowed. Some of us are paying mortgages, and there are plenty of Villagers who still work for a living because they can't afford to retire yet, or aren't old enough for social security benefits yet, and never earned enough to invest like some of you have. Some of us were fortunate enough to have bought our northern homes at what was a reasonable price at the time - not as an investment, but as a home we lived in for 10+ years. And were equally fortunate to be able to sell that home for more than we paid for it - which wasn't a business decision, it's just how the market was at the time we ended up being forced to move when we lost our jobs due to company closures and a tight hiring environment in mostly-obsolete skilled trades. After paying off the balance of the mortgage, we had enough to pay a sizeable portion of our Florida home, but nowhere near the full amount.

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting something shiny and new to call their own in their retirement. But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous. The good news, is that SOME of those construction workers will still be needed to replace homes in the -northern- part of the Villages, as they start wearing down and need replacing. But if everyone working for the construction company (which has direct ties to the developer don't forget - so this is totally not a selfless act, the developer makes mega-bucks) is living in the southern-most areas, they're going to have the same kind of commute to get to work in the northern area, than they have now living 30+ miles from the current construction.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.[/QUOTE]

[Bill14564]

By definition Amenities are things funded by the bonds and are built first.

Restaurants, stores, etc. are commercial development built once the population reaches the critical mass for profitable business.

...

The bond part of that was discussed above.

Defining amenities as those things that are built first and then stating that amenities are always built first is a bit circular, isn't it? Perhaps a better definition of amenities would be the pools, rec centers, and executive golf courses. And yes, with that definition some of them have been built first.

- Pools and neighborhood rec centers are likely completed before the homes are occupied

- Regional rec centers are not always completed first - Okahumpka Rec Center *might* have been opened before Richmond but certainly wasn't open before other neighborhoods close by

- I believe I saw in another thread that several golf courses are soon to be open. I suppose it's arguable whether they are Richmond amenities that were not completed first or whether they "belong" to the villages that are not yet completed.

But overall, much of the amenities are completed before homes are occupied.

There could be a longer discussion about expectations and where those expectations came from but that is probably best left to another thread.

[jimjamuser]

At about paragraphs 9 and 10, CRIME is discussed. It is stated, "crime picks an easy target such as seniors and UNOCCUPIED homes" (snowbirds). This has NOT changed since the INCEPTION of the 1st Village. Personally, I have had $5,000 worth of tools stolen (crime NEVER solved and nothing returned). The Villages will ALWAYS be a Bubble occupied by RICH, mostly caucasian, OLDER, and more VULNERABLE people. The Villages seems to have plenty of medical doctors and veterinarians to survive the senior population. Personally, I don't feel that the POLICE presence is NOT ADEQUATE as compared to the medical presence........it is TOO BAD that the medical and doggy docs are NOT required to be part-time Policepeople. Then we ALL could feel safe from crime ( that was a joke.......for those that get confused by dry humor)
.........The Villages also needs to try some innovative things (like England) and have neighborhood cameras monitored by experts that can call in a rapid Police response to an ongoing crime. How about dirigibles with cameras and remote control? There is a Villages club that can fly rovers and could help with that technology.
...........With or without large-scale unemployment, The Villages will always be a target due to its wealth being many times greater that the surrounding locals' wealth.
...........Right now, today the whole US has relatively LOW unemployment. BUT, big but, MURDERS have been on the rise for the last several years.
.........At about Paragraph 10, this statement was made," History has shown that crime WOULD spike with UNEMPLOYMENT. I would contend that crime is SPIKING as we speak. The statistics for nationwide MURDERS prove that. It won't matter whether The Villages expands or NOT - I believe that crime will increase here in The Villages if nothing is improved as far as Police presence and/or improved crime-preventing technology is PURCHASED.
..........Recent visitors that I have talked with from UP NORTH who were SCOUTING out The Villages for possible home purchase were 1st taken aback by the constant news of murders in Orlando and then they were perplexed about the lack of Police release of information about the Applebees GUN violence. It seemed like the wild west to them. They have scratched Florida off for their re-location plans. Incidentally, they tried the beaches around Sarasota and were sickened by the RED TIDE they encountered. And they were further SICKENED by the lack of warning and the reporting about Red Tide. They felt like they fell into a trap of limited information and maybe even the Florida Chamber of Commerce PURPOSEFULLY misleading people as to the health problem they encountered. I advised them to visit the Carolinas because of the summer HEAT problems in Florida.
......Basically, Florida in general has many HIDDEN problems (including roads and excess traffic) that DO NOT seem to be being ADDRESSED. These problems will eventually come to the attention of the majority of retirees that are potential Villages home BUYERS. You can't fool ALL the potential buyers ALL the time. That could become more evident and hit just at the time that The Villages is TRYING to expand.
...........So, does The Villages' future expansiveness seem prudent and LIKELY to happen............................................ ............................MAYBE ???????

[Jayhawk]

One I have is---were y'all happy where you once came from and if so, why did you move?? What were/are your expectations once you did??

Great question, and the simple answer is some people are only happy when they are complaining.

[Jayhawk]

I would like to comment on 2 separate, but related issues brought out in this thread - GROWTH and CRIME.
........Stated in about the 4th paragraph from the end, "Growth is INEVITABLE". Just as some humor........I was taught that ONLY DEATH and TAXES were inevitable. Now to be serious - at a micro level (The Villages growth) may be or seem to be inevitable - I could agree with that. But, at a macro level GROWTH in general depends on the continuing growth of the POPULATION of the US. I often use the term OPTIMAL population growth. For example, does China have the OPTIMAL growth for itself - apparently NOT as is apparent from the CLOUDS of pollution seen over ALL their big cities? America and Americans do NOT want their country to become OVERPOPULATED as China is. In China, right now, their government IS begging its population to have MORE children. And the people are saying NO. Their lives SUCK partly because they have gone PAST their point of OPTIMAL population. THAT is obvious to even myself, an ordinary citizen!
.........So, I put in that 1st paragraph as proof that things turn "and go south" when a population (any population, even Lemmings) exceeds its OPTIMAL NUMBER. Incidentally, that is why NATURE and Lemmings control ANIMAL POPULATIONS the way that it does. Why IS that important, you ask? Because mankind (humans) can fail to follow the laws of NATURE (AND POPULATIONS) for a LIMITED amount of time before things go "haywire". Think about CO2 killing coral reefs and dead spots in the Gulf of MEXICO. And record temperatures in the Gulf last year. And Global Warming that is predicted for the next 8 to 30 years.
........Florida is VERY VULNERABLE to HEAT increases as we saw with Hurricane IAN. Many northern visitors that WOULD buy property in the Villages are turned off by the summer HEAT and the prospects for KILLER hurricanes and tornadoes in the increasing HEAT of the Florida summers. Plus humidity, which is hard on an elderly person's body and health. Many of these people are looking to North and South Carolina as better locations with a temperate climate as opposed to a "HEAT chamber" like Florida!
.........What then is the OPTIMAL population for the US? I would propose that like China, we are PAST that number. 250 MILLION would be my best guess as to the Optimal US population. Note that US women are delaying having children so as to advance their careers. NOW, of course, the US can ALWAYS get migrants (legal or otherwise) because the US is a magnet for that - we are the "Gold Mountain" in their eyes. But, the question is whether large-scale immigration is going to be OPTIMAL from a numbers and EVEN a "changing demographic" basis ?
........The overall POINT IS that there are factors that could mitigate in the future AGAINST the "GROWTH is INEVITABLE" proposition.

Well, if everyone left their deadbeat, grown kids back where they come from, the crime stats would probably drop by 80 percent rapidly.

[richdell]

Great post. Thanks, Don.

[tophcfa]

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

[larbud]

When it takes four hours to drive to ocala maybe then they’ll quit..

[Goldwingnut]

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

Great comments and you are 100% on track with the need for diversification. Sumter County and its 5 cities are actively and aggressively working on this very issue and making great progress. In addition to a strong and vibrant agriculture community/economy there are several businesses recently locating here in Sumter County and many more being courted to locate here. Most residents of The Villages are unaware of this growth outside of "the bubble" due in large part to the fact that most are "retired" and not as actively involved in the business community as they may have once been.
You are spot on that the perceived relatively low diversification is not sustainable for the long term. Again, this has been recognized by local leadership and efforts continue on many fronts to plan for an eventual change in the local economic structure, it is a huge and slow-moving task. Fortunately, our current economic driver has and continues to demonstrate a long-term commitment to the community and economy.

[jimbomaybe]

That's a fair response to my concerns. I am still conflicted with what "local civic leaders" need to do, because it's pretty much common knowledge that the family that runs the Developer, the mortgage company, the bank, the insurance broker, a financial stake in the construction company, a sizeable chunk of the county's land, and the real estate that leases to the majority of businesses in or near the borders of the Villages - has some major influence over what "the local civic leaders" choose to do.

They do what the Developer wants them to do.

Valid concerns to be sure, it come down to the P word, can I say people should be politically active, involved, sensitive without running afoul of the moderators ,, the bottom line is one can always vote with their feet

[Aces4]

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

Your post makes much sense but I have to laugh at the last paragraph. That pretty much covers the activities in our northern state.

Swimming, golfing in summer, dancing.. only we can enjoy that even if it rains, biking and pickleball. Indoor facilities create great opportunities. When not golfing in the winter months, it’s a great time to volunteer and give back. People walk much more in the northern states and don’t jump in a golf cart at every opportunity so they don’t have to walk. They also don’t watch the clock so they can start drinking.

The Villages is perfect for some, not the cup of tea though, that many signed up for when they arrived. Those individuals don’t need to be enlightened as to why they need to embrace this retirement development. They no longer care for it. Life is all about choices and raising questions about their current home helps make their decision.

The vision of the bloated population thumb of this state against the rest of the US is compelling. In 2022, Florida was the fastest growing state which is probably great news if one moved here from Manhattan. For others, that is not great news. There is no wrong choice or perfect location, just enjoy what floats your boat.

As a side note, we currently know three couples leaving The Villages but that makes room for those who will embrace it.

[Villages Kahuna]

Many good observations, Don. But I would only say that if you’d like to l live in a small town environment, The Villages isn’t the right place for you.

My wife and I moved here when the Mallory mail station was pretty much the furthest thing on the south end of The Villages. The population was about 35,000 and the pace of construction didn’t seem to be anything remotely close to the current rate. Our bottom line — if we visited and saw the way The Villages looks now, without question we wouldn’t buy a house here now.

The current Villages isn’t “bad”, it just wouldn’t be for us.

[MJCtalk]

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.
If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

[MJCtalk]

If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

[VApeople]

they have produced a model of community living that thousands have found desirable. However they have stayed and grown with the population. I am grateful.


That is how we feel. We moved here 7 years ago and we enjoy living in The Villages more than ever, especially since they have made the numerous walking/biking trails.

Yesterday we went to Newell to enjoy their walking trails and then we went to Marco's for a pizza. It was a very enjoyable drive, just like when were dating in 1970. We drove along along Meggison in the evening, caught Buena Vista, and then took 466A over to Trailwinds. Then we drove home and enjoyed our pizza.

Life here is good for us.

[JMintzer]

Wrong amenities being built first

Need another
“Full size square” south of 44.

One is currently being built... Eastport...

Just looked through open tee times for Thursday. 85% of available time are on pitch and putts! Obvious need for more Executive courses , especially south of 44!

One is currently being built. Several more are planned...

Same with the Championship Courses...

[JMintzer]

If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

The Developers don't control your taxes, your utilities, or your insurance rates...

The only thing they control are the amenities fees, which, imho, are a bargain for what you get in return...

[ASR1515]

Excellent points Don. Thank you for the detailed, and in my view accurate, response.

[Bogie Shooter]

Is there a “readers digest”version of this

Cheap shot.🤦

[Bogie Shooter]

Yes - "It's good to be king".

Another cheap shot……..

[Bogie Shooter]

I understand that some people bought in TV to retire to a quiet community for the rest of their lives. For some it’s not going to happen. TV promotes activities, fun etc not so much geriatric care. Just look at the layout. Then the population. Not everyone expected huge growth and the good and bad that comes with it. People appreciate the more and higher quality service, better choice at stores and good restaurants. For these events there has to be sustainable numbers in the population. But, it comes at a cost, more traffic, more line ups, more like the big city.

Some of the big city services are lagging in TV, for example, sidewalks and public transportation just to name two. And the city of TV is oriented towards the younger people, in my opinion, the ones who buy the houses. The ones who will play golf, softball, water volleyball. The houses are built to accommodate aging, one level, bars, wide doorways etc. But in practice you can only stay here if either you are independent or if you become dependent, you have a caregiver. Often it is the husband that becomes dependent as the wives tend to be younger. We have many widows in TV, single older women. They can leave, find independent or nursing care especially if they can’t drive. I suppose there could be a larger effort made to keep these people. More services. Build more independent care etc so they could stay with their friends who have now become their “family”. But that would perhaps not be quite as lucrative.

Seems this is no different than many other parts of the country.

[Aloha1]

Once again, Don Wiley gives a very reasoned and educated comment about this area we live in and are part of. Is TV for everyone? Of course not. But for those who appreciate the opportunity to live here, it's Nirvana. It's people like Don, who help make TV a great place to live. Kudos.

[Bogie Shooter]

Your post makes much sense but I have to laugh at the last paragraph. That pretty much covers the activities in our northern state.

Swimming, golfing in summer, dancing.. only we can enjoy that even if it rains, biking and pickleball. Indoor facilities create great opportunities. When not golfing in the winter months, it’s a great time to volunteer and give back. People walk much more in the northern states and don’t jump in a golf cart at every opportunity so they don’t have to walk. They also don’t watch the clock so they can start drinking.

The Villages is perfect for some, not the cup of tea though, that many signed up for when they arrived. Those individuals don’t need to be enlightened as to why they need to embrace this retirement development. They no longer care for it. Life is all about choices and raising questions about their current home helps make their decision.

The vision of the bloated population thumb of this state against the rest of the US is compelling. In 2022, Florida was the fastest growing state which is probably great news if one moved here from Manhattan. For others, that is not great news. There is no wrong choice or perfect location, just enjoy what floats your boat.

As a side note, we currently know three couples leaving The Villages but that makes room for those who will embrace it.

Knowing of couples leaving is not a new phenomenon, twenty years ago when we bought our first home, there were people leaving. A blanket statement “they are leaving” doesn’t cut it….there are many reasons……

[TomPerry]

The Village of Richmond that just opened in the past few months? Yes, all those things were built before Richmond but so were many hundreds of other homes in the area. I was reading these boards as people south of 44 and south of the turnpike were lamenting the absence of bridges to get to Brownwood, any form of town square, and any shopping at all. Plus, Sawgrass and Edna's are not equivalent to a Brownwood. Richmond is not even close to the FIRST HOME built.

To expect those amenities to be open before the first home may be NUTS but it is the very definition of "amenities continue to be built first."
Could you please provide me with ANY Developer literature that says all the amenities are built before the first house is built. You have been here since 2014, your home has greatly appreciated, so you can sell your home at a great profit and move to a fully developed small mobile home community and not have to worry about future growth.

[Bill14564]

Could you please provide me with ANY Developer literature that says all the amenities are built before the first house is built. You have been here since 2014, your home has greatly appreciated, so you can sell your home at a great profit and move to a fully developed small mobile home community and not have to worry about future growth.

That claim has been made in several previous posts, including the one that I replied to. If you take the time to read the entire thread you will see that for yourself.

Moving to a fully-developed community where there is no worry about future growth.... sounds like the Villages when the they made it to 44. And then it wasn't.

[Aces4]

Knowing of couples leaving is not a new phenomenon, twenty years ago when we bought our first home, there were people leaving. A blanket statement “they are leaving” doesn’t cut it….there are many reasons……

Doesn’t cut it? Funny! These are not old, crusty cronies, they have no health problems and money isn’t an issue. They no longer enjoy The Villages. They must not have gotten the indoctrination that one must love The Villages as it is now.

As stated earlier, The Villages will have its admirers and it shouldn’t bother anyone if others move on and choose an area that appeals to their aesthetics.

[TomPerry]

That claim has been made in several previous posts, including the one that I replied to. If you take the time to read the entire thread you will see that for yourself.

Moving to a fully-developed community where there is no worry about future growth.... sounds like the Villages when the they made it to 44. And then it wasn't.
If you take the time to read and understand my post, you would see that I asked for DEVELOPER literature, NOT previous posts by people who love to complain about everything!!

[rustyp]

Another cheap shot……..

Cheap shot.🤦

HH already ?

[Bill14564]

If you take the time to read and understand my post, you would see that I asked for DEVELOPER literature, NOT previous posts by people who love to complain about everything!!

If you bothered to read my post in association with the one I was replying to you would see that I was disputing the claim of the previous poster and NOT any statement by the DEVELOPER. What I don't understand is your accusation of complaining applied to those who claimed the amenities were being built before the homes - they were not complaining about anything. But you would know that if you had bothered to read those posts.

[JRcorvette]

I enjoy your fly over videos Don.
Thanks

[tvbound]

Is there a “readers digest”version of this


"Is there a “readers digest”version of this"


I think that could be summed up by slightly changing a common phrase to: "You can't fight those who own City Hall/State Government."

[Altavia]

///

[HoosierPa]

There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

As for your question - we moved into a pre-owned in the "Historic" section for precisely the reason that we wanted something that was lived-in and established. There wasn't enough money or perks in the world to convince us to move to the new sections. Even now that you've crossed Florida's Turnpike and 44, the furthest south I'd even consider would be the northern half of the O'Dell circle. And that'd be pretty iffy. It would definitely not be my first choice but I'd consider it, if we ever decided to move from our current location.

In addition, not everyone profited off their jobs and saved up to afford to live here. Many of us borrowed. Some of us are paying mortgages, and there are plenty of Villagers who still work for a living because they can't afford to retire yet, or aren't old enough for social security benefits yet, and never earned enough to invest like some of you have. Some of us were fortunate enough to have bought our northern homes at what was a reasonable price at the time - not as an investment, but as a home we lived in for 10+ years. And were equally fortunate to be able to sell that home for more than we paid for it - which wasn't a business decision, it's just how the market was at the time we ended up being forced to move when we lost our jobs due to company closures and a tight hiring environment in mostly-obsolete skilled trades. After paying off the balance of the mortgage, we had enough to pay a sizeable portion of our Florida home, but nowhere near the full amount.

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting something shiny and new to call their own in their retirement. But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous. The good news, is that SOME of those construction workers will still be needed to replace homes in the -northern- part of the Villages, as they start wearing down and need replacing. But if everyone working for the construction company (which has direct ties to the developer don't forget - so this is totally not a selfless act, the developer makes mega-bucks) is living in the southern-most areas, they're going to have the same kind of commute to get to work in the northern area, than they have now living 30+ miles from the current construction.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

FYI,
I live South of 44 and wouldn’t consider living north of 466.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Good point. I think the villages should have kept the theater open and REQUIRED every resident to attend it regularly so that it would remain sustainable. Ask those grandkids when the last time they went to the movie theater back home was (vs streaming on their ipads or TVs).
Brownwood theater was doing just fine before covid and will do just fine if opened again. Where do you see kids out and about and not buried in those ipads? Laughing and having a great time riding in golf carts, playing pickle ball and swimming in the pools with the old folks in T V!! They also liked going to the Brownwood theater when the sun was scortching hot in the summer... well at least my grand kids did. I suppose some people prefer kids be baby sat by electronics while in TV... to each there own.

[Taltarzac725]

Brownwood theater was doing just fine before covid and will do just fine if opened again. Where do you see kids out and about and not buried in those ipads? Laughing and having a great time riding in golf carts, playing pickle ball and swimming in the pools with the old folks in T V!! They also liked going to the Brownwood theater when the sun was scortching hot in the summer... well at least my grand kids did. I suppose some people prefer kids be baby sat by electronics while in TV... to each there own.

They have not been able to book some movies because they do not have enough available screens.

[WoodshopMark]

I don't buy that theory, and further, I'm glad I don't wake up every day with such a pessimistic attitude toward our community.

The Developer is just what the word implies...a developer of property. When a particular area's development has been completed, the communities are turned over to a CDD. The Developer never intended to be a mother hen, looking after her flock into perpetuity.

Ever hear of Del Webb? They are another successful developer of retirement communities, albeit with a totally different strategy. Del Webb communities tend to be smaller, and more isolated/individual as compared to The Villages. Once Del Webb completes a project/development, they vacate the area and turn the whole project over to an HOA. Yet, they continue to prosper and be popular even without their mother hen.

I, for one, am glad The Villages developer has opted to play the long game, and I hope they continue to make a profit. Their business model is what has provided the communities we all call home. Their continued success means that we will continue to enjoy the benefits that brought us here in the first place.

You missed the point. Even after the CDD assumes responsibility the developer still owns the:
Three squares
The bank
The Villages Health
Hotels
Many restaurants
Championship golf courses
Water company
Jacobs
Pool construction company
Shopping centers
Sawgrass Grove
Controls the schools
The dump
The list goes on....

[Laker14]

Wow! Great thread. Don Wiley, thank you for your great OP, and for all you do to keep us as informed of what's going on as you do.
tophcfa, thank you for post #59, (too long to quote here but well worth the read). And thanks again Don for your response to those points.

As for those who want a "Reader's Digest Version", if you consider all of the work that Don Wiley puts into participating in the local government, and making fly-over drone videos to educate us, and creating well thought out posts to inform us of what's going on, you can't take the time to read a few paragraphs....well....that strikes me as pretty pathetic.

If this place is a grand experiment, I feel very fortunate to get to be a part of it. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close to perfect for us.

[Jayhawk]

Knowing of couples leaving is not a new phenomenon, twenty years ago when we bought our first home, there were people leaving. A blanket statement “they are leaving” doesn’t cut it….there are many reasons……

Right on!

They are merely being replaced, and usually quickly.

:BigApplause:

[Altavia]

This is incorrect, the bonds build the infrastructure needed to support the community but not the amenities.

The amenities are funded by the developer who then owns and operates them as a portion of their business portfolio. In that construction cost is also a proportionate share of the infrastructure cost. The amenities are not a part of the respective neighboring CDD. The CDD lines are drawn around these properties and exclude them.

If the bond funds were used to build the amenities, those amenities would then be a part of the CDD issuing the bonds. But they aren't, so they don't.

The bonds do, however, make the amenities possible.

The developer is able to recoup the development costs quickly by billing the costs to the CDD who then pays them from the funds raised by the sale of the bonds. The developer doesn't have their money tied up in water lines, retention ponds, roads, and sewer pipes for the duration of the sale cycle. This frees up cash to allow the building of the amenities.

Without this methodology, we would be no different than most other communities where the salesman showing a lot would make statements like "over there will be the green for the 7th hole that will be built next year", something that frequently fails to materialize due to cash flow issues.
..

.

Thanks Don for the clarification.
.

[Bogie Shooter]

HH already ?

//////

[huge-pigeons]

This is a straw man fallacy.
Straw Man Fallacy | Excelsior Online Writing Lab (https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/)

Please stop. No one said the developer is doing things for only altruistic reasons, which is what you imply. That’s just silly.

The profit motive of capitalism does come with altruistic benefits. It has brought much of the world out of extreme poverty. Is it perfect? No, it has blemishes certainly. But other systems have performed worse.

It’s a time to celebrate. We live in the most prosperous and healthiest time in human history.




Nonsense. This is a similar argument that capitalism is not sustainable and will kill the planet. The argument is often made by anti-capitalists with socialist leanings. Again, capitalism has blemishes but things are very unlikely to collapse.

For those who want to learn more about whether capitalism is sustainable, here is a (long) lecture from a Duke University professor.
https://youtu.be/6dVSOIiO_U8

(I suspect that cherry picked counter examples are about to come.)

Great post from goldwingnut. You are correct spinner1001. Things aren’t going to fail overnight or anytime soon. When you have people leaving California/NY/Oregon/NJ/Illinois and many others and a lot of them moving here, we will be growing for the foreseeable future.
As for development plans, you don’t wake up 1 morning and say we will start building in this new area. It takes years of planning, surveying, permits, building the infrastructure and so on before the 1st house can be built.
As for never thinking of moving south of 466, we just moved here and we didn’t even consider anything north of 466a and we ended up in the southern most part. We know several people that have moved from the old section of the villages to the south and the people we know that live south of 44 that are selling, they are all moving into a newer home in either Richmond or Newell. There are so many more benefits living in the southern sections compared to the older sections.

[SusanStCatherine]

I'm curious. Are there currently any pools or Rec Centers in Newell, Lake Denham, or Dabney? (There is a pitch n putt and a putting course.)

[SusanStCatherine]

Why are Premier homes no longer being built? Why are custom Designer homes now limited to very few options despite a huge new design center in Brownwood?

[MidWestIA]

I'm ok with getting bigger as long as they keep the Infrastructure in line with it and we don't run out of water. We lived in Frisco TX (north Dallas) and it was growing just as fast BUT they built Infrastructure before all the houses.

[LuvNH]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

[Jayhawk]

They have not been able to book some movies because they do not have enough available screens.

Which movies?

[rustyp]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

The canary in the coal mine will be when the flowers go to a semi annual change Vs quarterly. Be astute.

[LuvNH]

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197708]

The canary in the coal mine will be when the flowers go to a semi annual change Vs quarterly. Be astute.

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

[rustyp]

[QUOTE=rustyp;2197719]

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

There is a saying "1st generation makes it, 2nd generation maintains it, 3rd generation destroys it". Harold and Gary were 1st gen. Mark, Tracy, and Jennifer are 2nd gen and still running the show. Keep an eye on the flowers.

[Bill14564]

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

Where does the family get their income, from the residents already in their homes or the purchasers of new homes? Things can slip quite a bit in the established areas before it begins to affect sales of new homes. Heck, carefully engineer a contrast between the bright, shiny offerings in a new square and the well-worn offerings in an old square and you might prompt some existing homeowners to purchase the new homes.

The flowers just might be the canary in the coal mine as the previous poster suggested.

[virtue51]

Thank you for the explanation.

[Normal]

Thank you for your insight. As usual you are right on. We have lived here for almost 10 years and love seeing the new areas being developed. However that doesn’t mean that we turn our backs on some areas of concern.

First is the 462 and 466A intersection. That is going to be disaster on Sundays. We go to church at St Vincent. It is becoming insane getting to and especially getting out on Sunday. The pastor says they are gonna cut a new exit out to 134. That will help a little but when all that new development opens on 462 it will get unbearable.


I agree, and 462 will be a huge concern very soon. 6 buildings with 60 apartment units each are almost ready to open on 462 in a small area. I’m not sure what the traffic will be like once they all open, but I can’t imagine it getting better. The Sheriff’s Department stops and directs traffic accordingly on Saturdays and Sundays to assist, but this is required before the units have even been occupied.

In addition, more multi family units have broken ground directly across the street and almost adjacent to St. Vincent’s. Furthermore, new housing units are almost completed directly across the road from the church. The area will be a menace to traffic problems.

This is all a Wildwood problem, not the Villages concern. The city of Wildwood has Comte logistical catastrophe.

[kansasr]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

We are already under a holding company, The Villages Land Holding Company, LLC

[Altavia]

///

[jimjamuser]

Well, if everyone left their deadbeat, grown kids back where they come from, the crime stats would probably drop by 80 percent rapidly.
True. That is a problem. That's why I have suggested so many improvements for safety and security including UPGRADING the Police department.

[JP]

I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

[Bill14564]

I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

By the way, there is no HOA in the Villages.

But I do wonder which CDD pays for the flowers. If each of the numbered CDDs each pay for them directly then fine. If the PWAC / SLCDD then that's a different story.

[rustyp]

I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

By the way, there is no HOA in the Villages.

But I do wonder which CDD pays for the flowers. If each of the numbered CDDs each pay for them directly then fine. If the PWAC / SLCDD then that's a different story.

A direct post by Don Wiley from the past referring to a rumor of reducing flower bed plantings:

"Having set through multiple budget meetings and workshops this year for several of the numbered (residential) districts, and PWAC, this was never discussed in any of these meetings. Specifically, this would have been covered by the PWAC budget for the Project Wide Fund, and neither the subject of reducing the plantings nor funding fireworks displays was discussed. The multi-year landscape contracts call for 4 bedding plant replacements per year and these contracts have not been modified to reduce the number of plantings."

[Laker14]

People who think it's a bad thing that TV keeps expanding are missing a big point. It is not a choice between The Villages continuing to develop and no development at all. It is a choice between TV getting bigger and somebody else developing the area.
The Villages keeps growing, and "The Developers" keep developing because there is a market for homes in this part of the country. If the Morse family didn't tap that market, someone else would.

So the question to ask yourselves is this: Would I rather have more of what we have in TV being developed around here, or more of what we have going up behind the Trailwinds Plaza?

[Pilodent]

This essay was way too long.
and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on i
First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.[/QUOTE]

[Pilodent]

The essay on growth & development was way too long..

[Stu from NYC]

The essay on growth & development was way too long..

Sorry but think it covered everything it needed too. I learned a lot.

Nobody forces you to read the whole thing.

[npwalters]

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197708]

We are already under a holding company, The Villages Land Holding Company, LLC

Good point. If you think it is a friendly family run business - try to speak one on one with any person at the decision maker level.

[Bogie Shooter]

The essay on growth & development was way too long..

Why did you repost the whole thing?

[jimjamuser]

This is a straw man fallacy.
Straw Man Fallacy | Excelsior Online Writing Lab (https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/)

Please stop. No one said the developer is doing things for only altruistic reasons, which is what you imply. That’s just silly.

The profit motive of capitalism does come with altruistic benefits. It has brought much of the world out of extreme poverty. Is it perfect? No, it has blemishes certainly. But other systems have performed worse.

It’s a time to celebrate. We live in the most prosperous and healthiest time in human history.




Nonsense. This is a similar argument that capitalism is not sustainable and will kill the planet. The argument is often made by anti-capitalists with socialist leanings. Again, capitalism has blemishes but things are very unlikely to collapse.

For those who want to learn more about whether capitalism is sustainable, here is a (long) lecture from a Duke University professor.
https://youtu.be/6dVSOIiO_U8

(I suspect that cherry picked counter examples are about to come.)
I am disagreeing with the line about our living in the most prosperous time in history. That would depend on what point on the income spectrum you exist at. If you are one of the upper 1% of US society then maybe YES. But if you are in the vanishing US middle class - then NO.
.........To prove that, people were asked if they thought that their generation was better off than their PREVIOUS generation. After 1970 the answer was most often ......a resounding .....NO !

[rustyp]

Why did you repost the whole thing?

///// reminiscing

[jimjamuser]

A direct post by Don Wiley from the past referring to a rumor of reducing flower bed plantings:

"Having set through multiple budget meetings and workshops this year for several of the numbered (residential) districts, and PWAC, this was never discussed in any of these meetings. Specifically, this would have been covered by the PWAC budget for the Project Wide Fund, and neither the subject of reducing the plantings nor funding fireworks displays was discussed. The multi-year landscape contracts call for 4 bedding plant replacements per year and these contracts have not been modified to reduce the number of plantings."
I could do without any planting of flowers on the roundabouts. Also, some plants are overgrown and from a safety point of view, they block a driver's view. Also, the planting crews trucks cause a safety hazard. Plant some Florida-friendly bushes that need little water, plant them back from the traffic, and leave the damn things in the ground !

[Lisanp@aol.com]

And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

[Lisanp@aol.com]

The Developers don't control your taxes, your utilities, or your insurance rates...

The only thing they control are the amenities fees, which, imho, are a bargain for what you get in return...

And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

[Bill14564]

And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

The developer does not control the CPI but he does control the amenity fees

[Lisanp@aol.com]

The developer does not control the CPI but he does control the amenity fees

I did read, did you? The amenity fees are tied to, and raised (or lowered) by, the CPI the month of the original purchase date of the property. The developer sets the amenity fee at the time of purchase, not thereafter.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

When I was looking at TV, I asked my Dad about a month before he died about its size as a concern. His answer (paraphrased).

"It is not a 100,000 people in a city, it is 50 or so communities. You will know many of yours but not many 2-3 Villages away. In West Islip, you don't even know the guy down the block. Put another way, I lived in Brooklyn. But I didn't grow up in Brooklyn - or even Williamsburg. I grew up on Stockholm St."

Wise Man.

I always think of The Villages in that way. Most people use the rec centers, pools, tennis and pickle ball courts, softball fields and golf course in their area. People from the Spanish Springs area normally would think of going to Brownwood unless there is something extraordinary going on there. People south of 44 generally don't go to Spanish Springs Town Square. Everyone seems to stay in their Village or at least their area. It's exactly why although The Villages is approaching 150,000 residents it still feels like a small town.

Before anyone disagrees they should consider whether they've lived in a city of 150,000 people or even 100,000 people. Believe me, it's much different than what we have here.

[Bill14564]

I did read, did you? The amenity fees are tied to, and raised (or lowered) by, the CPI the month of the original purchase date of the property. The developer sets the amenity fee at the time of purchase, not thereafter.

So you mean the amenity fee I am paying was set by the developer then increases by the CPI? And the amenity fee you are paying was set by the developer and the increased by the CPI? And the amenity fee that will be paid by a new purchaser has been set by the developer and will then be increased by the CPI?

So it seems the amenity fee is “set by the developer” but not controlled by the developer.

EDIT: And then there is the decision to implement an amenity fee deferral rate by the VCCDD and SLCDD (as the RAD and SLAD upon recommendation by the AAC and PWAC). Some might consider that to be developer control of the amenity fee as well.

[Goldwingnut]

Why are Premier homes no longer being built? Why are custom Designer homes now limited to very few options despite a huge new design center in Brownwood?

Good question and it has a twofold answer about the designer homes. As I have predicted in my video #122 there will be premier homes later this year in Dabney. As for why they stopped after the Conservation Trail area, hard to say but looking at some of the areas like DeLuna, Richmond, StC, StJ, and Hawkins, there were not a lot of good/desirable locations for the premier homes.

As for the designer homes, here goes.
Reason #1 - there were a handful of designer homes built in the last 18 months that have stressed the system with long design timelines and because of the level of customizations longer than average construction times. This has led to isolated homes still under construction in villages/areas that were otherwise complete. This led to difficulties of access and parking of construction vehicles and because of their isolated nature, inefficient manpower usage. To remedy this they've reduced the customizations allowed to get the crews all working in the same areas and not be spread across 4 or 5 villages.
Reason #2 - many of the designer homes that were heavily customized and riveled or exceeded some premier homes. I've personally taken pictures of no less than 5 homes over 3000sqft and one over 4000sqft in the last year. With the release of premier homes coming and their higher price tag, allowing extensive customization of the designer homes (at a lower overall price) would erode the number of potential buyers of this new offering. Lowering the limits for customization for designer homes now raises the demand for premier homes. A business decision was made.

[Goldwingnut]

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197708]

The canary in the coal mine will be when the flowers go to a semi annual change Vs quarterly. Be astute.

What does this have to do with the developer? The CDD board of Supervisors would make that decision and the developer would have no say in the matter. With the exception of 2 supervisors on CDD13 all the supervisors in CDD1-13 are residents and not developer appointed (oops - Land Owner Elected).

[Goldwingnut]

By the way, there is no HOA in the Villages.

But I do wonder which CDD pays for the flowers. If each of the numbered CDDs each pay for them directly then fine. If the PWAC / SLCDD then that's a different story.

The flowers are paid for through 4 basic avenues:
1. around the amenities - postal stations, gate houses, pools, rec centers - from the Amenity Funds (SLAD & RAD)
2. in common areas like the traffic circles on Morse & BV, and other major thoroughfares - this comes out of the PWF south of 466, north of 466 from the CDD1-4 individual budgets.
3. areas such as cul de sac, villa entries, and other minor areas in the individual CDD - directly from the CDD budget
4. town square areas - these are paid for by the maintenance assessments on the buildings (the occupying tenant businesses), these assessments are 10 to 12 times higher per square foot of floor space than is paid by the residents in the CDDs

Item 1 - you pay for from your monthly amenity fees.
Items 2 & 3 - you pay for from the residential maintenance assessments included in your annual property tax bill.
Item 4 - you pay for out of the costs for every dinner, drink, dress, and bobble you purchase when you do business in the town squares.

[Goldwingnut]

So you mean the amenity fee I am paying was set by the developer then increases by the CPI? And the amenity fee you are paying was set by the developer and the increased by the CPI? And the amenity fee that will be paid by a new purchaser has been set by the developer and will then be increased by the CPI?

So it seems the amenity fee is “set by the developer” but not controlled by the developer.

EDIT: And then there is the decision to implement an amenity fee deferral rate by the VCCDD and SLCDD (as the RAD and SLAD upon recommendation by the AAC and PWAC). Some might consider that to be developer control of the amenity fee as well.

Once you purchase your home - new or resale - the amenity fee thereafter is adjusted by the CPI adjustment - this is both good and bad, good in that it helps keep up with inflation and rising costs, unfortunately the CPI is a political football in Washington and what is used to determine it and the methodology to calculate it is tweaked and a regular basis by politicians to meet their agenda and spin. It never keeps up with the true rising costs. The SLAD and RAD budgets must live within these CPI adjustments to their revenue, even as they fall short of the actual rising costs of running the amenities. There is no discretionary adjustments allowed under your deed restrictions, contrary to what many think. This continued shortfall was one of the reasons that the deferral rate was not renewed - yes it had to be renewed each year by the AAC/PWAC/SLAD/RAD, it was never a perpetual cap as many believe. Had it not been removed the two amenity districts would have been cumulatively over $20M in the hole this year (drawing down repair and replacement reserves).

The developer owns all the amenities south of 44, it is a business unit for them, and like any business has to maintain it books and budgets in a profitable (that's not a dirty word) condition. For them, the amenity fees have to cover utilities, maintenance, staffing, supplies, repairs, taxes, an amortized construction cost, and of course a profit. This a real-world cost determination not the fantasy that Washington's CPI adjustment magically determines. So each year the assess their costs and determine a prevailing rate that is necessary to meet the financial goals, this is the adjustment we see come out every January that applies to all homes sold following its effective date.

For the SLAD/RAD budgets, this developer adjustment to the prevailing rate is a huge plus as it acts as a reset that helps to overcome the shortfalls of the CPI adjustments as I discussed above, each time a home is resold.

I explain most of this in my videos https://youtu.be/RDjafwcRtQg and https://youtu.be/EsFulbLR32w


As a side note, when/if the developer decides to sell the amenities to the CDD, what was once profit and taxes in the budget becomes the money that pays off the bond used to purchase the amenities from the developer.

After the PWAC was given the responsibility of the amenity budget for 466-44 I did some pretty complex calculations and financial projections on cost to build and operate the amenities and recovery of costs to finally achieve profitability. Based on the information available at the time, current cost, and adjustment to previous costs for inflations, I calculated that it took between 12 and 15 years from delivery of the first amenity until the business unit actually turned an annual profit and nearly 20 years to achieve a net profit. This is because the costs are incurred before the revenue from the home sales in the new areas start to come in. An example of this is the approximate $4M it cost to build the Fenny Rec Center complex which was opened at about the same time the first homes were sold, the revenue the first few years because of the few homes fell way short of actual expenses and is only just now starting to achieve a net profit for this one property however the entire area south of 44 is still operating at a net loss (based on my previous calculations).

These amenities are of course an investment, one that pays off handsomely in the sales of homes and ultimately in the sale of the amenities to the CDD. When will they sell the amenities to the CDD, had to say but a best estimate would be about 3-5 years after the last home is built north of 470 the amenities between 44 and 470 would be sold to the Eastport commercial CDD. Yes, this is pure conjecture on my part, it's based on the timing of the two previous amenity sales to VCCDD and SLCDD.

Last thought, the desire to implement a deferral rate again by some members of the AAC was pure folly and little more than political pandering by some board members. The implementation would have cost the AAC millions, not just in the first year but in all successive years as each year there would be the recurring shortfall each year with no way to make up the deferred revenues - they didn't get a pay raise, but prices still went up, they don't get a double pay raise the following year, so the shortfall still exists. Fortunately, most of the PWAC saw through the folly of this idea and dismissed it. Had this been approved by AAC and PWAC (it would require both to approve, one cannot approve and the other disapprove due to stipulations in the governing establishing documents), both the VCCDD and the SLAD are staffed by intelligent businessmen (ignore gender inference if you must) and they most assuredly would have disapproved it as they are still ultimately responsible for the amenities and budgets.

[Goldwingnut]

There are other posts in this thread that I'll respond to in new threads as they are deserving of the distinction to be addressed separately. I'll tackle these after the Spring Thing happening on Saturday (3/18) at the Polo fields, when I have some free time to address them (stand by for the next chapter!).

[rustyp]

/////

[jimjamuser]

I always think of The Villages in that way. Most people use the rec centers, pools, tennis and pickle ball courts, softball fields and golf course in their area. People from the Spanish Springs area normally would think of going to Brownwood unless there is something extraordinary going on there. People south of 44 generally don't go to Spanish Springs Town Square. Everyone seems to stay in their Village or at least their area. It's exactly why although The Villages is approaching 150,000 residents it still feels like a small town.

Before anyone disagrees they should consider whether they've lived in a city of 150,000 people or even 100,000 people. Believe me, it's much different than what we have here.
"it still feels like a SMALL TOWN" - Well, NOT to me, because a small town does NOT have mega-traffic problems and constant wrecks on the roundabouts. Yes, compared to NY and Philadelphia the traffic may be less, but it is still BAD. Traffic congestion here is BAD! There are NO 2 ways about it.
.........Many senior residents are FORCED to drive even though they have lost the eyesight and reflexes to drive PROPERLY. This IS a big PROBLEM - that has a solution. And that very solution has been talked about and screamed about many times on past FORUMS.
.........The solution is simply............GIVE US MASS TRANSPORTATION.......!!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

You missed the point. Even after the CDD assumes responsibility the developer still owns the:
Three squares
The bank
The Villages Health
Hotels
Many restaurants
Championship golf courses
Water company
Jacobs
Pool construction company
Shopping centers
Sawgrass Grove
Controls the schools
The dump
The list goes on....
Tell it like it is ! Great post !

[jimjamuser]

Great post from goldwingnut. You are correct spinner1001. Things aren’t going to fail overnight or anytime soon. When you have people leaving California/NY/Oregon/NJ/Illinois and many others and a lot of them moving here, we will be growing for the foreseeable future.
As for development plans, you don’t wake up 1 morning and say we will start building in this new area. It takes years of planning, surveying, permits, building the infrastructure and so on before the 1st house can be built.
As for never thinking of moving south of 466, we just moved here and we didn’t even consider anything north of 466a and we ended up in the southern most part. We know several people that have moved from the old section of the villages to the south and the people we know that live south of 44 that are selling, they are all moving into a newer home in either Richmond or Newell. There are so many more benefits living in the southern sections compared to the older sections.
Like fewer mature trees, close proximity to a Federal Prison, Turnpike noise, greater traffic, a bond to pay off, and lots of dust and noise from the busy construction crews. Yea, that sounds like a paradise made in heaven to me.

[jimjamuser]

Seems this is no different than many other parts of the country.
Statistically speaking, women tend to live 7 years longer than men - and be 5 inches shorter.

[jimjamuser]

The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

So I’m guessing you’re planning to sell to avoid this? Values are good, even in the historical section. Might be a good time to cut bait.
That IS an interesting warning. However, I am NOT SURE it is TRUE, because there was no explanation and PROOF that it was TRUE. Just a statement of opinion left out there floating in opinion space ????????

[jimjamuser]

I understand that some people bought in TV to retire to a quiet community for the rest of their lives. For some it’s not going to happen. TV promotes activities, fun etc not so much geriatric care. Just look at the layout. Then the population. Not everyone expected huge growth and the good and bad that comes with it. People appreciate the more and higher quality service, better choice at stores and good restaurants. For these events there has to be sustainable numbers in the population. But, it comes at a cost, more traffic, more line ups, more like the big city.

Some of the big city services are lagging in TV, for example, sidewalks and public transportation just to name two. And the city of TV is oriented towards the younger people, in my opinion, the ones who buy the houses. The ones who will play golf, softball, water volleyball. The houses are built to accommodate aging, one level, bars, wide doorways etc. But in practice you can only stay here if either you are independent or if you become dependent, you have a caregiver. Often it is the husband that becomes dependent as the wives tend to be younger. We have many widows in TV, single older women. They can leave, find independent or nursing care especially if they can’t drive. I suppose there could be a larger effort made to keep these people. More services. Build more independent care etc so they could stay with their friends who have now become their “family”. But that would perhaps not be quite as lucrative.
Yes.............and create more MASS TRANSIT.

[Bogie Shooter]

Statistically speaking, women tend to live 7 years longer than men - and be 5 inches shorter.

:what:

[Velvet]

:what:

Well, not the fashion models…lol…

[Laker14]

"it still feels like a SMALL TOWN" - Well, NOT to me, because a small town does NOT have mega-traffic problems and constant wrecks on the roundabouts. Yes, compared to NY and Philadelphia the traffic may be less, but it is still BAD. Traffic congestion here is BAD! There are NO 2 ways about it.
.........Many senior residents are FORCED to drive even though they have lost the eyesight and reflexes to drive PROPERLY. This IS a big PROBLEM - that has a solution. And that very solution has been talked about and screamed about many times on past FORUMS.
.........The solution is simply............GIVE US MASS TRANSPORTATION.......!!!!!!!!

Years ago, when I was reading the book "Leisureville" which was (sort of) about The Villages, I came to a realization about retirement life. The book was partly responsible for the epiphany, but I was more receptive to it because I was watching my dad in his later years of life. He'd been retired 20 years. My mother had already passed. I will share my epiphany with you.

Retirement isn't "one thing" or "one stage" of life. Depending upon how old and healthy we are when we retire, or when we die, it will be several stages. The first stage, if we are lucky, is one when we are still active. We can play pickleball, golf, swim, play water volleyball, drive ourselves around. But that stage, unless we die young and healthy, or with a quick decline, as my mother did, passes, to a second stage, where we can still be socially active, and still drive. We play cards, shuffleboard, billiards, sing in the choir. But we are forced away from some of the more physically demanding activities.

If we live long enough we can no longer drive ourselves around, and we need more and more "care", or levels of assistance, and if we live really long, eventually we need "24 hour care and assistance". Eventually we die.

How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.

When we bought in TV, we came here fully aware that if we live long enough, we will outlive TV's usefulness to us. We'll have to find some other place, designed and built for those last stages of life.

I've never been a fan of those who argued that if there was something about the culture of the USA I didn't like I should "move to Norway"...or some similarly stupid idea. For one thing, Norway doesn't want me. However, there is no such restriction on where you live in the USA, other than what your finances limit you to.

You want a gated community so you feel safer? Find one, move there. Don't make yourself miserable over the fact that TV isn't one.
You want a smaller community, with less traffic? Find one, move there.
You want more pickleball?, Less pickleball? No pickleball at all because it's too loud? Find the place and move there.

We may be able to change slightly, some small aspects of life in TV, but the big picture is the big picture, and for every person who wishes it were different, there are 10,000 who wouldn't change it in that direction, and wouldn't have come here if looked like your vision. So, rather than trying to move the mountain, relocate yourself to a place that looks more like your vision. You aren't going to change this place into what you say you think it should be.

[Dusty_Star]

The Village of Richmond was built AFTER Sawgrass Grove Opened and a couple of years AFTER the Executive Courses and Southern Oaks Championship Golf Course and AFTER Magnolia Plaza and AFTER Edna’s On The Green. To expect all those amenities be opened before THE FIRST HOME is built is Nuts! Amenities are built in conjunction with the building of homes.

But judging by Richmond is incorrect. Fenney, the first part of DeLuna, Linden, DeSoto, Marsh Bend, Hammock at Fenney, McClure, Monarch Grove, Bradford, Chitty Chatty, St. Catherine, Hawkins, Citrus Grove, Cason Hammock were all built before & some during most of the amenities you list.

[Jayhawk]

Years ago, when I was reading the book "Leisureville" which was (sort of) about The Villages, I came to a realization about retirement life. The book was partly responsible for the epiphany, but I was more receptive to it because I was watching my dad in his later years of life. He'd been retired 20 years. My mother had already passed. I will share my epiphany with you.

Retirement isn't "one thing" or "one stage" of life. Depending upon how old and healthy we are when we retire, or when we die, it will be several stages. The first stage, if we are lucky, is one when we are still active. We can play pickleball, golf, swim, play water volleyball, drive ourselves around. But that stage, unless we die young and healthy, or with a quick decline, as my mother did, passes, to a second stage, where we can still be socially active, and still drive. We play cards, shuffleboard, billiards, sing in the choir. But we are forced away from some of the more physically demanding activities.

If we live long enough we can no longer drive ourselves around, and we need more and more "care", or levels of assistance, and if we live really long, eventually we need "24 hour care and assistance". Eventually we die.

How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.

When we bought in TV, we came here fully aware that if we live long enough, we will outlive TV's usefulness to us. We'll have to find some other place, designed and built for those last stages of life.

I've never been a fan of those who argued that if there was something about the culture of the USA I didn't like I should "move to Norway"...or some similarly stupid idea. For one thing, Norway doesn't want me. However, there is no such restriction on where you live in the USA, other than what your finances limit you to.

You want a gated community so you feel safer? Find one, move there. Don't make yourself miserable over the fact that TV isn't one.
You want a smaller community, with less traffic? Find one, move there.
You want more pickleball?, Less pickleball? No pickleball at all because it's too loud? Find the place and move there.

We may be able to change slightly, some small aspects of life in TV, but the big picture is the big picture, and for every person who wishes it were different, there are 10,000 who wouldn't change it in that direction, and wouldn't have come here if looked like your vision. So, rather than trying to move the mountain, relocate yourself to a place that looks more like your vision. You aren't going to change this place into what you say you think it should be.

NOMINATED for Post of the day.


:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Velvet]

‘How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.’

People who buy homes in TV at least in the past did not buy a part-time home. They meant to be ‘frogs’ to live and die here as my uncle and aunt did. Are you saying that people who want to grow old here should not buy a house in TV? Or they should include another move in late stage of their lives when they can’t drive but are otherwise able and do not need assisted living? You realize how difficult that is for people to say in their 80’s to leave their friends who may now have become their “family” for a new city or place where they may know no one? Would it really be that impossible to consider their needs in future developments in TV?

Or, are you suggesting that TV really is nothing but a theme park, come and “rent” ie buy a house here, play while you can, then get the hell out? I can guarantee you that that was not the original vision of The Villages when it was established.

[Laker14]

‘How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.’

People who buy homes in TV at least in the past did not buy a part-time home. They meant to be ‘frogs’ to live and die here as my uncle and aunt did. Are you saying that people who want to grow old here should not buy a house in TV? Or they should include another move in late stage of their lives when they can’t drive but are otherwise able and do not need assisted living? You realize how difficult that is for people to say in their 80’s to leave their friends who may now have become their “family” for a new city or place where they may know no one? Would it really be that impossible to consider their needs in future developments in TV?

Or, are you suggesting that TV really is nothing but a theme park, come and “rent” ie buy a house here, play while you can, then get the hell out? I can guarantee you that that was not the original vision of The Villages when it was established.


What I am saying is that people who buy here should be cognizant of the fact that this place isn't being built or marketed as a place that will provide what you need once you reach the age where life isn't about activities, but has transitioned into a life focused on assistance.

I didn't say anything about a "theme park". In fact I think viewing TV as "Disney for Adults" is a recipe for disillusionment. It's not a vacation. It is life. Real life with real life problems that must be attended to. It is not a vacation that never ends.

If you look at the website TheVillages.com they market the "active seniors lifestyle". There is one "heading" that says "Senior Living Facilities" and 5 "Bullets" that say "Independent Living, Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, Memory Care and Rehabilitation"...there are no supporting links to those bullets, that I can find. If they are there, great. However, there are links and links and pages and pages touting "activities". There are pictures of swimmers, golfers, dancers, pickleball players, etc. etc.

That is what they are selling. An "active senior lifestyle". The fact that you may desire, or your aunt and uncle succeeded in living here until they croaked is fine, but it's not what the place is primarily focused on.
I suspect that over the next 10 years what was the baby-boom market for active lifestyle with become the baby boom market for assisted living. But this isn't it yet, not here, not now.

I am curious to know how you can "guarantee" what the original vision was, in this regard.

[Dusty_Star]

One I have is---were y'all happy where you once came from and if so, why did you move?? Whatt were/are your expectations once you did??


Do you want answers? Mine would be I was very happy where I was. I loved the state, the town, & my neighborhood. I also loved the people, & my house & property. But I became more uncomfortable with the cold, snow & ice. I also had a Colonial style house & I realized that all of the stairs would make it a difficult house to grow old in. I still love it, but also still feel it was wise to look for a one level house in a warmer climate. I hope to grow to love the state, Village, neighborhood, & people in my new house.

[Velvet]

What I am saying is that people who buy here should be cognizant of the fact that this place isn't being built or marketed as a place that will provide what you need once you reach the age where life isn't about activities, but has transitioned into a life focused on assistance.

I didn't say anything about a "theme park". In fact I think viewing TV as "Disney for Adults" is a recipe for disillusionment. It's not a vacation. It is life. Real life with real life problems that must be attended to. It is not a vacation that never ends.

If you look at the website TheVillages.com they market the "active seniors lifestyle". There is one "heading" that says "Senior Living Facilities" and 5 "Bullets" that say "Independent Living, Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, Memory Care and Rehabilitation"...there are no supporting links to those bullets, that I can find. If they are there, great. However, there are links and links and pages and pages touting "activities". There are pictures of swimmers, golfers, dancers, pickleball players, etc. etc.

That is what they are selling. An "active senior lifestyle". The fact that you may desire, or your aunt and uncle succeeded in living here until they croaked is fine, but it's not what the place is primarily focused on.
I suspect that over the next 10 years what was the baby-boom market for active lifestyle with become the baby boom market for assisted living. But this isn't it yet, not here, not now.

I am curious to know how you can "guarantee" what the original vision was, in this regard.

A wise observation… and in the past TV was a place to live and die and have fun while you were at it. Now it seems like fun! fun! fun! and that is it.

Oh about the guarantee, both my parents and uncle and aunt knew Mr Schwartz personally.

[jimjamuser]

‘How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.’

People who buy homes in TV at least in the past did not buy a part-time home. They meant to be ‘frogs’ to live and die here as my uncle and aunt did. Are you saying that people who want to grow old here should not buy a house in TV? Or they should include another move in late stage of their lives when they can’t drive but are otherwise able and do not need assisted living? You realize how difficult that is for people to say in their 80’s to leave their friends who may now have become their “family” for a new city or place where they may know no one? Would it really be that impossible to consider their needs in future developments in TV?

Or, are you suggesting that TV really is nothing but a theme park, come and “rent” ie buy a house here, play while you can, then get the hell out? I can guarantee you that that was not the original vision of The Villages when it was established.
Good post. It is true that "nothing is perfect". But, the human spirit SEEKS perfection. There is nothing wrong with pointing out imperfections in The Villages and The Village's system and lifestyle. Furthermore, saying that at some point in their life, senior residents should just "pack up and leave" to some more appropriate location - seems to be a BIG contradiction to the "America's Friendliest Hometown" image.
.........So, IS the Friendly Hometown the TRUTH or is it just a real estate salesperson's gimmick to entice retirees here? If it IS the latter and all old people here are supposed to be clever enough to know when they MUST pack up and leave.........I have to find that deeply SAD.
.........And it does NOT square with a whole lifetime of being told how GREAT it is to buy into the AMERICAN DREAM.
...........Should all old people just volunteer to join some Army to be used as cannon fodder in their last days?
..........I would suggest that instead of residents telling OLDER residents to pack up and leave - maybe it would be better to take a good product like The Villages and make it BETTER by doing small adjustments for the older residents.............like maybe providing MASS TRANSIT !!!!!!!
........Personally, I would prefer the cost of establishing mass transit and other improvements as needed for the aging population to the WASTERFUL cost of planting and then unplanting all those pretty FLOWERS on every roundup and other locations.
..........Pretty FLOWERS are nice in someone's backyard as their hobby. But, pretty FLOWERS throughout The Villages are for LOOKS and aesthetics, while MASS TRANSIT is a functional necessity for OLDER residents that do NOT drive to be able to get to Doctor's appointments.
...........So, if BOTH can NOT be accomplished and the choices are between pretty FLOWERS and the reality of functional TRANSPORTATION, I know that I would VOTE for the FUNCTIONAL, PRACTICAL OPTION !!!!!!

[JSR22]

Good post. It is true that "nothing is perfect". But, the human spirit SEEKS perfection. There is nothing wrong with pointing out imperfections in The Villages and The Village's system and lifestyle. Furthermore, saying that at some point in their life, senior residents should just "pack up and leave" to some more appropriate location - seems to be a BIG contradiction to the "America's Friendliest Hometown" image.
.........So, IS the Friendly Hometown the TRUTH or is it just a real estate salesperson's gimmick to entice retirees here? If it IS the ladder and all old people here are supposed to be clever enough to know when they MUST pack up and leave.........I have to find that deeply SAD.
.........And it does NOT square with a whole lifetime of being told how GREAT it is to buy into the AMERICAN DREAM.
...........Should all old people just volunteer to join some Army to be used as cannon fodder in their last days?
..........I would suggest that instead of residents telling OLDER residents to pack up and leave - maybe it would be better to take a good product like The Villages and make it BETTER by doing small adjustments for the older residents.............like maybe providing MASS TRANSIT !!!!!!!
........Personally, I would prefer the cost of establishing mass transit and other improvements as needed for the aging population to the WASTERFUL cost of planting and then unplanting all those pretty FLOWERS on every roundup and other locations.
..........Pretty FLOWERS are nice in someone's backyard as their hobby. But, pretty FLOWERS throughout The Villages are for LOOKS and aesthetics, while MASS TRANSIT is a functional necessity for OLDER residents that do NOT drive to be able to get to Doctor's appointments.
...........So, if BOTH can NOT be accomplished and the choices are between pretty FLOWERS and the reality of functional TRANSPORTATION, I know that I would VOTE for the FUNCTIONAL, PRACTICAL OPTION !!!!!!

vote for the flowers. Mass transit would be extremely expensive. Can't drive use Uber or move to assisted living.

[JMintzer]

Years ago, when I was reading the book "Leisureville" which was (sort of) about The Villages, I came to a realization about retirement life. The book was partly responsible for the epiphany, but I was more receptive to it because I was watching my dad in his later years of life. He'd been retired 20 years. My mother had already passed. I will share my epiphany with you.

Retirement isn't "one thing" or "one stage" of life. Depending upon how old and healthy we are when we retire, or when we die, it will be several stages. The first stage, if we are lucky, is one when we are still active. We can play pickleball, golf, swim, play water volleyball, drive ourselves around. But that stage, unless we die young and healthy, or with a quick decline, as my mother did, passes, to a second stage, where we can still be socially active, and still drive. We play cards, shuffleboard, billiards, sing in the choir. But we are forced away from some of the more physically demanding activities.

If we live long enough we can no longer drive ourselves around, and we need more and more "care", or levels of assistance, and if we live really long, eventually we need "24 hour care and assistance". Eventually we die.

How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.

When we bought in TV, we came here fully aware that if we live long enough, we will outlive TV's usefulness to us. We'll have to find some other place, designed and built for those last stages of life.

I've never been a fan of those who argued that if there was something about the culture of the USA I didn't like I should "move to Norway"...or some similarly stupid idea. For one thing, Norway doesn't want me. However, there is no such restriction on where you live in the USA, other than what your finances limit you to.

You want a gated community so you feel safer? Find one, move there. Don't make yourself miserable over the fact that TV isn't one.
You want a smaller community, with less traffic? Find one, move there.
You want more pickleball?, Less pickleball? No pickleball at all because it's too loud? Find the place and move there.

We may be able to change slightly, some small aspects of life in TV, but the big picture is the big picture, and for every person who wishes it were different, there are 10,000 who wouldn't change it in that direction, and wouldn't have come here if looked like your vision. So, rather than trying to move the mountain, relocate yourself to a place that looks more like your vision. You aren't going to change this place into what you say you think it should be.

https://media.tenor.com/BCZb5mOO80QAAAAM/the-wolf-of-wall-street-clap.gif

[JMintzer]

‘How long we are in each stage varies of course, but here's the take-home point:The Villages isn't designed, built, nor marketed as a place appropriate for all stages. If you need public transportation, it's not for you. Rather than constantly be unhappy about the fact that it doesn't have that, you should find a place more suitable. Those places exist. It is not here.’

People who buy homes in TV at least in the past did not buy a part-time home. They meant to be ‘frogs’ to live and die here as my uncle and aunt did. Are you saying that people who want to grow old here should not buy a house in TV? Or they should include another move in late stage of their lives when they can’t drive but are otherwise able and do not need assisted living? You realize how difficult that is for people to say in their 80’s to leave their friends who may now have become their “family” for a new city or place where they may know no one? Would it really be that impossible to consider their needs in future developments in TV?

Or, are you suggesting that TV really is nothing but a theme park, come and “rent” ie buy a house here, play while you can, then get the hell out? I can guarantee you that that was not the original vision of The Villages when it was established.

How did those people "in the past" who bough in TV manage?

Why can't the people buy here now do the same?

[Bilyclub]

The Developers don't control your taxes, your utilities, or your insurance rates...

The only thing they control are the amenities fees, which, imho, are a bargain for what you get in return...


Oh contrare. They do have a say in the taxes. Look at the whole impact fee debacle in Sumter County. Also they sold the water uitilties at an inflated price set by their favorite apprasiers and now the system all off a sudden needs 26 million in repairs 3 years after the sale. That 26 mill will result in substanial hikes in the water and sewer rates.

[Velvet]

How did those people "in the past" who bough in TV manage?

Why can't the people buy here now do the same?

The area was smaller, everything more easily accessible. Much less traffic. Neighbors really helped each other, turnover was less. And Mr Shwartz actually considered the residents’ problems as well as their entertainment. I am not saying he wasn’t shrewd financially, just that he also cared for people - not just for their money. TV was a Village as the name implies, not a city as the population is now. Can we go back? No. We always have to proceed forwards that is the only direction time goes. But we seem to be proceeding unilaterally like the Silicon Valley Bank, hedging the main bets on younger (active) naive people - who will grow older and will be in the majority here - it’ll be a lot of people to have to throw out. And I’m wondering how they’ll like it.

[Kenswing]

That IS an interesting warning. However, I am NOT SURE it is TRUE, because there was no explanation and PROOF that it was TRUE. Just a statement of opinion left out there floating in opinion space ????????

Kind of like 99.99% of your posts. I can't believe YOU actually called someone out on that. :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

The area was smaller, everything more easily accessible. Much less traffic. Neighbors really helped each other, turnover was less. And Mr Shwartz actually considered the residents’ problems as well as their entertainment. I am not saying he wasn’t shrewd financially, just that he also cared for people - not just for their money. TV was a Village as the name implies, not a city as the population is now. Can we go back? No. We always have to proceed forwards that is the only direction time goes. But we seem to be proceeding unilaterally like the Silicon Valley Bank, hedging the main bets on younger (active) naive people - who will grow older and will be in the majority here - it’ll be a lot of people to have to throw out. And I’m wondering how they’ll like it.

So, it's the neighbor's fault? Our neighbor's are very helpful. They watch our home when we're away. My wife helped a lady she came across sitting on the curb. She simply "ran out of gas" and couldn't finish her walk home. My wife assisted her home and stayed with her until her husband came home.

She didn't have a clue who this lady was, either...

I've taken another neighbor (who broke her wrist and can't drive) to the dentist. My wife took her to PT...

I posted on Next Door and our local neighborhood message board about needing to borrow a set of golf clubs for my son in law who was visiting. I had a dozen offers...

You didn't answer my question. Being smaller doesn't mean you don't have to drive. Nor does less traffic. Once you can't live by yourself, Mr Schwartz had no plans to take care of anyone...

[Laker14]

So, it's the neighbor's fault? Our neighbor's are very helpful. They watch our home when we're away. My wife helped a lady she came across sitting on the curb. She simply "ran out of gas" and couldn't finish her walk home. My wife assisted her home and stayed with her until her husband came home.

She didn't have a clue who this lady was, either...

I've taken another neighbor (who broke her wrist and can't drive) to the dentist. My wife took her to PT...

I posted on Next Door and our local neighborhood message board about needing to borrow a set of golf clubs for my son in law who was visiting. I had a dozen offers...

You didn't answer my question. Being smaller doesn't mean you don't have to drive. Nor does less traffic. Once you can't live by yourself, Mr Schwartz had no plans to take care of anyone...

But he was sweet. He has a statue.

[Velvet]

So, it's the neighbor's fault? Our neighbor's are very helpful. They watch our home when we're away. My wife helped a lady she came across sitting on the curb. She simply "ran out of gas" and couldn't finish her walk home. My wife assisted her home and stayed with her until her husband came home.

She didn't have a clue who this lady was, either...

I've taken another neighbor (who broke her wrist and can't drive) to the dentist. My wife took her to PT...

I posted on Next Door and our local neighborhood message board about needing to borrow a set of golf clubs for my son in law who was visiting. I had a dozen offers...

You didn't answer my question. Being smaller doesn't mean you don't have to drive. Nor does less traffic. Once you can't live by yourself, Mr Schwartz had no plans to take care of anyone...

You are fortunate to have such neighbors. And I bet your wife and you are like that yourself.

Being smaller meant my aunt could walk from her house relatively safely to where she needed to go. Try that now.

If you notice, some people refer to their house not as my “home” but as an “investment”. At least they are being honest about it. Funny how people who plan to age out in their home, don’t usually refer to it as an investment.

[Laker14]

A wise observation… and in the past TV was a place to live and die and have fun while you were at it. Now it seems like fun! fun! fun! and that is it.

Oh about the guarantee, both my parents and uncle and aunt knew Mr Schwartz personally.

Well, what they market is almost just fun! fun! fun!...lots of big smiles. Putts always fall in the hole. Dancing! Pool volleyball! Do you think they are going to show pictures of me sitting at my desk with my glasses on my forehead paying my bills? That's real life. They are selling an idealized version.
I think it's safe to assume that we're all old enough to know that what we see in commercials isn't reality. Even if I buy that Lincoln Continental, my wife will not look like the lady in the car, I will not be handsome, and my house won't look like that house that the car is parking in front of. If I drink a can of Pepsi, my mood will not be instantly transformed into euphoric bliss.

We are responsible for filtering the reality from the idealized fluff, and old enough and wise enough that we should be able to do that. Yet nowhere in the idealistic fuzz of The Villages marketing media do I see public transportation for shut-ins, or in-home assistance for the infirm.

However, if your parents,aunt and uncle knew Harold Schwartz personally, I'd take that as a guarantee that those things will all be taken care of by The Villages.

[Velvet]

Well, what they market is almost just fun! fun! fun!...lots of big smiles. Putts always fall in the hole. Dancing! Pool volleyball! Do you think they are going to show pictures of me sitting at my desk with my glasses on my forehead paying my bills? That's real life. They are selling an idealized version.
I think it's safe to assume that we're all old enough to know that what we see in commercials isn't reality. Even if I buy that Lincoln Continental, my wife will not look like the lady in the car, I will not be handsome, and my house won't look like that house that the car is parking in front of. If I drink a can of Pepsi, my mood will not be instantly transformed into euphoric bliss.

We are responsible for filtering the reality from the idealized fluff, and old enough and wise enough that we should be able to do that. Yet nowhere in the idealistic fuzz of The Villages marketing media do I see public transportation for shut-ins, or in-home assistance for the infirm.

However, if your parents,aunt and uncle knew Harold Schwartz personally, I'd take that as a guarantee that those things will all be taken care of by The Villages.

I think you are right, at least I hope so. (My uncle knew Harold Schwartz from a previously life, it was Mr. Shwartz who invited my uncle and aunt to live here. They never regretted it.) This place has an honorable history and may it continue.

[jimjamuser]

vote for the flowers. Mass transit would be extremely expensive. Can't drive use Uber or move to assisted living.
You are a sterner man than I, Gunga Din. Let all the old people die like Lemmings in a charge against some cannons in some war somewhere.

[Michael 61]

Ok, I need to chime in as a younger retiree and new resident - I can’t wait for all this growth that’s coming - more recreation and entertainment options, and as my age demographic increases in size, there will be a higher demand for more ethnic restaurants, and not just the meat-and-potatoes chains. My individual village feels very small and intimate, as does the surrounding area. Great things as The Villages grows, that your neighborhood retains it’s “small town” vibe. The future and the growth that is coming is exciting - can’t wait!

[Bogie Shooter]

You are fortunate to have such neighbors. And I bet your wife and you are like that yourself.

Being smaller meant my aunt could walk from her house relatively safely to where she needed to go. Try that now.

If you notice, some people refer to their house not as my “home” but as an “investment”. At least they are being honest about it. Funny how people who plan to age out in their home, don’t usually refer to it as an investment.


This is hog wash! Myself and many of my neighbors walk anywhere SAFELY. WHY ARE YOU SPREADING THIS MISINFORMATION?

[jimjamuser]

vote for the flowers. Mass transit would be extremely expensive. Can't drive use Uber or move to assisted living.
How could MASS TRANSPORTATION be TOO expensive when the users of the service WILL PAY for the service? NY subways and San Fransisco trolley cars are paid for by the fees collected. Plus the service would make a profit. Has anyone REALLY studied the issue? I am NOT saying that a bus line needs to run every 15 minutes. Twice a day might work for many people. They could take a sandwich and read a book while at the Doctor's waiting room. Businesses like Publix and Target might be willing to kick in some startup money because their sales might go up 10 %.
.........I doubt very much that a mass transit system has ever been researched and proposed here. It is easiest to just ASSUME that something like that won't work because so many retirees have Golf Carts. But a blind person or a special needs person can't drive a Golf Cart. And many older people go blind from macular degeneration. And many people would take a bus IF that WERE an option here. Car insurance is going up and gas prices are going up.

[jimjamuser]

Oh contrare. They do have a say in the taxes. Look at the whole impact fee debacle in Sumter County. Also they sold the water uitilties at an inflated price set by their favorite apprasiers and now the system all off a sudden needs 26 million in repairs 3 years after the sale. That 26 mill will result in substanial hikes in the water and sewer rates.
Ah Yes, the old "end around" tax increase.

[Velvet]

This is hog wash! Myself and many of my neighbors walk anywhere SAFELY. WHY ARE YOU SPREADING THIS MISINFORMATION?

Bogie, I appreciate and respect your seniority here. But I can’t walk safely to an appointment from Mallory. I can to a rec center or pool. And I have lovely sidewalks available on Odell too. The side streets are safe enough - if that is what you mean. Now my aunt’s streets in district 1 are way more busy than before, and no sidewalks. People drive through from the South to go to shopping area etc. There was no “south” previously.

[JSR22]

How could MASS TRANSPORTATION be TOO expensive when the users of the service WILL PAY for the service? NY subways and San Fransisco trolley cars are paid for by the fees collected. Plus the service would make a profit. Has anyone REALLY studied the issue? I am NOT saying that a bus line needs to run every 15 minutes. Twice a day might work for many people. They could take a sandwich and read a book while at the Doctor's waiting room. Businesses like Publix and Target might be willing to kick in some startup money because their sales might go up 10 %.
.........I doubt very much that a mass transit system has ever been researched and proposed here. It is easiest to just ASSUME that something like that won't work because so many retirees have Golf Carts. But a blind person or a special needs person can't drive a Golf Cart. And many older people go blind from macular degeneration. And many people would take a bus IF that WERE an option here. Car insurance is going up and gas prices are going up..Honestly don't see mass transit coming to TV. You can have groceries and restaurant food delivered. Order almost anything and have delivered. Need to go to a Doctor use Uber. Where would bus stations be located? People who have physical handicaps or are blind cannot wal to and from a bus stop. There comes a point where people have to move. That's life.

[jimjamuser]

The area was smaller, everything more easily accessible. Much less traffic. Neighbors really helped each other, turnover was less. And Mr Shwartz actually considered the residents’ problems as well as their entertainment. I am not saying he wasn’t shrewd financially, just that he also cared for people - not just for their money. TV was a Village as the name implies, not a city as the population is now. Can we go back? No. We always have to proceed forwards that is the only direction time goes. But we seem to be proceeding unilaterally like the Silicon Valley Bank, hedging the main bets on younger (active) naive people - who will grow older and will be in the majority here - it’ll be a lot of people to have to throw out. And I’m wondering how they’ll like it.
Those are good points and, obviously, you knew Mr. Shwartz, who incidentally I have NEVER heard a BAD word about. And how things were in the REAL "good old days" of TV Bubbleland.
......As to we can't go back - anything is ALWAYS possible. We here in TV Land will NOT stand still, but we (and the whole US) could go forward into the BRIGHT SUNLIGHT of PROGRESS or backslide into the DARKNESS of an economic recession or other problems. The future is NOT ours to see!
......And one thing is sure and predicted by scientists - that our summers will continue getting HOTTER - the Gulf waters getting WARMER - causing likely greater hurricanes and destruction on the keys and both coasts - with the accompanying INCREASE in insurance RATES statewide. Also, heat exhaustion for older residents due to temperature and humidity rising.
.........You can try, but you CAN'T fight your MOTHER.........MOTHER NATURE.

[Fredster]

Where does the notion that a real estate developer should take care of you in your twilight years come from?
Is it just a carry over from the notion that government should be responsible for your personal welfare?
My recollection of situations where my aging relatives needed care in home or otherwise, they if they could, and the family made arrangements.

[jimjamuser]

I think you are right, at least I hope so. (My uncle knew Harold Schwartz from a previously life, it was Mr. Shwartz who invited my uncle and aunt to live here. They never regretted it.) This place has an honorable history and may it continue.
Public mass transportation COULD hopefully become a REALITY if enough people would talk about it on forums and get the younger 60-year-olds to be AWARE that THEY may need it in 20 years.
......It is possible, of course, that in 10 years DRIVERLESS cars BECOME practical. And maybe driverless Golf Carts and even lawnmowers......wouldn't that be sweet, no more insane commercial lawn people driving like insane Benovos and parking trucks in the middle of the street........ah yes, one can only DREAM.

[Bogie Shooter]

Where does the notion that a real estate developer should take care of you in your twilight years come from?
Is it just a carry over from the notion that government should be responsible for your personal welfare?
My recollection of situations where my aging relatives needed care in home or otherwise, they if they could, and the family made arrangements.

👍👍,..

[jimjamuser]

This is hog wash! Myself and many of my neighbors walk anywhere SAFELY. WHY ARE YOU SPREADING THIS MISINFORMATION?
She is a WOMAN for crying out loud! A man can walk around ANYWHERE at night safely here in TV Land Bubble without worrying about their SAFETY. A WOMAN can NOT! Big difference! Maybe a group of women could or one that knew KARATE and was packing HEAT.
........Many people have said that there are many ADULT (and weird-looking) grandkids of Villages residents that live here. This place has CHANGED rapidly for the WORSE since the PANDEMIC hit. Society has changed toward the MORE violent. The last 3 years have had increasing MURDERS nationwide. Just watch the stories on Orlando news about the FREQUENT robberies and MURDERS. No woman in her right mind would walk the streets of The Villages at night with all the characters and drunks coming home from the squares.

[Velvet]

Where does the notion that a real estate developer should take care of you in your twilight years come from?
Is it just a carry over from the notion that government should be responsible for your personal welfare?
My recollection of situations where my aging relatives needed care in home or otherwise, they if they could, and the family made arrangements.

Where does it come from? From Mr Schwartz himself. He was not “a developer” but a person. He started an amazing community and I know it’s hard to imagine but he actually cared for people, and in his honor I will leave it there.

I think maybe self-driving cars will be of help to the elderly. Hopefully those cars will manage the roundabouts!

[JMintzer]

How could MASS TRANSPORTATION be TOO expensive when the users of the service WILL PAY for the service? NY subways and San Fransisco trolley cars are paid for by the fees collected. Plus the service would make a profit. Has anyone REALLY studied the issue? I am NOT saying that a bus line needs to run every 15 minutes. Twice a day might work for many people. They could take a sandwich and read a book while at the Doctor's waiting room. Businesses like Publix and Target might be willing to kick in some startup money because their sales might go up 10 %.
.........I doubt very much that a mass transit system has ever been researched and proposed here. It is easiest to just ASSUME that something like that won't work because so many retirees have Golf Carts. But a blind person or a special needs person can't drive a Golf Cart. And many older people go blind from macular degeneration. And many people would take a bus IF that WERE an option here. Car insurance is going up and gas prices are going up.

Wrong again...

"How much is the NYC subway subsidized?

The largest share of MTA revenue — $7.222 billion — comes from dedicated taxes and subsidies the Authority receives from the cities and states that we serve. Another $6.870 billion comes from fares and tolls."

BART in San Francisco?

"Is BART funded by government?

The operating budget funds the annual operation and maintenance of the BART system. Operating budget sources include passenger and parking revenue, taxes, and financial assistance from local, state and federal sources."

And the Cable Cars?

SFMTA Says They Need $625 Million to Fix the Cable Cars (https://sfist.com/2021/09/30/sfmta-says-they-need-625-million-to-fix-the-cable-cars/)

Let's look at the DC Metro System...

"How does Metro get money?

About 1/3 of Metro Transit's operating budget is covered by fares and advertising revenue, the remainder comes from regional, state, federal, county and other sources (see Metro Transit's annual Fact Book for additional detail)."

How about SEPTA in Philly"

"Is SEPTA subsidized?

To make up for the $989,200,000 gap in operating expenses for FY2021, SEPTA receives 65% of its FY2021 income from federal, state, and local government subsidies."

And Amtrak?

"Does Amtrak receive government subsidies?

In conjunction with operating revenues and funds from states, local governments, and other entities, Amtrak uses federal funds for a wide range of its operating and capital activities, including a portion of its operating expenses, capital maintenance of fleet and infrastructure, capital expansion and investment ..."

Shall I continue?

[JMintzer]

Where does it come from? From Mr Schwartz himself. He was not “a developer” but a person. He started an amazing community and I know it’s hard to imagine but he actually cared for people, and in his honor I will leave it there.

I think maybe self-driving cars will be of help to the elderly. Hopefully those cars will manage the roundabouts!

Then why didn't he plan for public transportation for those who could no longer drive? (Not really directed at you...)

[John Mayes]

Wrong again...

"How much is the NYC subway subsidized?

The largest share of MTA revenue — $7.222 billion — comes from dedicated taxes and subsidies the Authority receives from the cities and states that we serve. Another $6.870 billion comes from fares and tolls."

BART in San Francisco?

"Is BART funded by government?

The operating budget funds the annual operation and maintenance of the BART system. Operating budget sources include passenger and parking revenue, taxes, and financial assistance from local, state and federal sources."

And the Cable Cars?

SFMTA Says They Need $625 Million to Fix the Cable Cars (https://sfist.com/2021/09/30/sfmta-says-they-need-625-million-to-fix-the-cable-cars/)

Let's look at the DC Metro System...

"How does Metro get money?

About 1/3 of Metro Transit's operating budget is covered by fares and advertising revenue, the remainder comes from regional, state, federal, county and other sources (see Metro Transit's annual Fact Book for additional detail)."

How about SEPTA in Philly"

"Is SEPTA subsidized?

To make up for the $989,200,000 gap in operating expenses for FY2021, SEPTA receives 65% of its FY2021 income from federal, state, and local government subsidies."

And Amtrak?

"Does Amtrak receive government subsidies?

In conjunction with operating revenues and funds from states, local governments, and other entities, Amtrak uses federal funds for a wide range of its operating and capital activities, including a portion of its operating expenses, capital maintenance of fleet and infrastructure, capital expansion and investment ..."

Shall I continue?


There you go with fact’s again……

[Papa_lecki]

Then why didn't he plan for public transportation for those who could no longer drive? (Not really directed at you...)

The Developer built a multi BILLION dollar industry. People really think they didn’t consider some sort of public transportation? I would bet 90% of the residents prefer their car or golf cart vs a bus or trolley.

If it’s such a great idea, someone would have done it - after all, the roads are public, the Developer can’t stop them.

[rustyp]

The flowers are paid for through 4 basic avenues:
1. around the amenities - postal stations, gate houses, pools, rec centers - from the Amenity Funds (SLAD & RAD)
2. in common areas like the traffic circles on Morse & BV, and other major thoroughfares - this comes out of the PWF south of 466, north of 466 from the CDD1-4 individual budgets.
3. areas such as cul de sac, villa entries, and other minor areas in the individual CDD - directly from the CDD budget
4. town square areas - these are paid for by the maintenance assessments on the buildings (the occupying tenant businesses), these assessments are 10 to 12 times higher per square foot of floor space than is paid by the residents in the CDDs

Item 1 - you pay for from your monthly amenity fees.
Items 2 & 3 - you pay for from the residential maintenance assessments included in your annual property tax bill.
Item 4 - you pay for out of the costs for every dinner, drink, dress, and bobble you purchase when you do business in the town squares.

Sounds like item 4 is the developer to me. Exactly at which point in the food chain does the developer get to declare it was THEIR money ? Under your philosophy I must own a part of Amazon.

Tweet Tweet 97459

[Stu from NYC]

Wrong again...

"How much is the NYC subway subsidized?

The largest share of MTA revenue — $7.222 billion — comes from dedicated taxes and subsidies the Authority receives from the cities and states that we serve. Another $6.870 billion comes from fares and tolls."

BART in San Francisco?

"Is BART funded by government?

The operating budget funds the annual operation and maintenance of the BART system. Operating budget sources include passenger and parking revenue, taxes, and financial assistance from local, state and federal sources."

And the Cable Cars?

SFMTA Says They Need $625 Million to Fix the Cable Cars (https://sfist.com/2021/09/30/sfmta-says-they-need-625-million-to-fix-the-cable-cars/)

Let's look at the DC Metro System...

"How does Metro get money?

About 1/3 of Metro Transit's operating budget is covered by fares and advertising revenue, the remainder comes from regional, state, federal, county and other sources (see Metro Transit's annual Fact Book for additional detail)."

How about SEPTA in Philly"

"Is SEPTA subsidized?

To make up for the $989,200,000 gap in operating expenses for FY2021, SEPTA receives 65% of its FY2021 income from federal, state, and local government subsidies."

And Amtrak?

"Does Amtrak receive government subsidies?

In conjunction with operating revenues and funds from states, local governments, and other entities, Amtrak uses federal funds for a wide range of its operating and capital activities, including a portion of its operating expenses, capital maintenance of fleet and infrastructure, capital expansion and investment ..."

Shall I continue?

There you go again, confusing people with the facts.

[JMintzer]

There you go with fact’s again……

There you go again, confusing people with the facts.

Not to worry... The same (incorrect) argument will pop up in the near future, and again and again and again...

[Bogie Shooter]

She is a WOMAN for crying out loud! A man can walk around ANYWHERE at night safely here in TV Land Bubble without worrying about their SAFETY. A WOMAN can NOT! Big difference! Maybe a group of women could or one that knew KARATE and was packing HEAT.
........Many people have said that there are many ADULT (and weird-looking) grandkids of Villages residents that live here. This place has CHANGED rapidly for the WORSE since the PANDEMIC hit. Society has changed toward the MORE violent. The last 3 years have had increasing MURDERS nationwide. Just watch the stories on Orlando news about the FREQUENT robberies and MURDERS. No woman in her right mind would walk the streets of The Villages at night with all the characters and drunks coming home from the squares.

There you go again expanding the post I was referring to. Now a single woman at night.
Always changing the topic to fit your narrative………..

[jimjamuser]

There you go again expanding the post I was referring to. Now a single woman at night.
Always changing the topic to fit your narrative………..
Sorry when people disagree with me, but isn't that to be expected? I have a point of view and others have another. That's what Democracy and America are all about. Not everyone in America agreed with the course that Abraham Lincoln took. Not that I am in his league. I am in the Peanut league comparatively.

[Bogie Shooter]

Sorry when people disagree with me, but isn't that to be expected? I have a point of view and others have another. That's what Democracy and America are all about. Not everyone in America agreed with the course that Abraham Lincoln took. Not that I am in his league. I am in the Peanut league comparatively.

On every topic.......................

[jimjamuser]

On every topic.......................
True that. I agree completely.

[LuvNH]

If JimJamUser is such a pain in the neck, why don't people just block him?

I think you all secretly like arguing with him.

[Michael 61]

If JimJamUser is such a pain in the neck, why don't people just block him?

I think you all secretly like arguing with him.

I blocked him last month, and my experience and enjoyment on this site improved dramatically 😀

[LuvNH]

I blocked him last month, and my experience and enjoyment on this site improved dramatically 😀

Several years ago there was a woman on here every day and for some reason I could not stand her or her posts. After I blocked her my stress level dropped to zero:D

But, I have noticed there is almost a "club" who just have to answer his posts and he knows he has you and pulls your chains every day. I think he is just enjoying the reaction.

[jimjamuser]

Several years ago there was a woman on here every day and for some reason I could not stand her or her posts. After I blocked her my stress level dropped to zero:D

But, I have noticed there is almost a "club" who just have to answer his posts and he knows he has you and pulls your chains every day. I think he is just enjoying the reaction.
I wasn't "enjoying others' reactions" before so much as I was just stating my opinions just to state them and be a part of this thing called a FORUM. NOW, however, that you mentioned it, I DID enjoy your reaction. So, maybe "reacting" is a healthy part of a Democratic dialog on a FORUM.

[LuvNH]

I wasn't "enjoying others' reactions" before so much as I was just stating my opinions just to state them and be a part of this thing called a FORUM. NOW, however, that you mentioned it, I DID enjoy your reaction. So, maybe "reacting" is a healthy part of a Democratic dialog on a FORUM.

There is your poof guys ..... he is reacting to me now, however, I could care less and will not bait him. I'll leave that to you ................

[Kenswing]

If JimJamUser is such a pain in the neck, why don't people just block him?

I think you all secretly like arguing with him.Unfortunately, even when you block someone you still have to see their nonsense as soon as someone quotes him. But in general it is a more enjoyable forum experience when he's blocked.

[Stu from NYC]

If JimJamUser is such a pain in the neck, why don't people just block him?

I think you all secretly like arguing with him.

Very easy to scroll on by most of the time