Young people not volunteering for military

[Rainger99]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

[Bill14564]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

The article seemed to cover both of those questions with a good level of detail.

[collie1228]

I believe it is cultural. When I turned 18, I knew that college was of no interest to me and going to work in the local large manufacturing plant seemed like jail to me at the time. There was no way my father was going to allow me to live at home for much longer, even if I was employed, so I took the next best option and joined the Navy. It turned out to be the best move ever, as the GI Bill paid for college four years later, and I learned how to be an adult, but I really didn't have much choice. If, like many (probably most) parents today, mine were willing to coddle me, give me a bed and food, wash my clothes, etc., I probably would have stayed home too. Thanks Mom and Dad for your conservative values and willingness to stick to them. It made my life a better place.

[Pairadocs]

I believe it is cultural. When I turned 18, I knew that college was of no interest to me and going to work in the local large manufacturing plant seemed like jail to me at the time. There was no way my father was going to allow me to live at home for much longer, even if I was employed, so I took the next best option and joined the Navy. It turned out to be the best move ever, as the GI Bill paid for college four years later, and I learned how to be an adult, but I really didn't have much choice. If, like many (probably most) parents today, mine were willing to coddle me, give me a bed and food, wash my clothes, etc., I probably would have stayed home too. Thanks Mom and Dad for your conservative values and willingness to stick to them. It made my life a better place.

You expressed it perfectly. It is definitely a cultural "revolution", a totally new society of keyboard "warriors" desperately attempting to build some measure of self-esteem (yet sadly way too often ending in the desperation of suicide). An interesting observation on this recently in the news. The daughter of the king and queen of Spain, age 17, will soon complete what we here call "high school education", and will be joining her country's military. It is the custom in Spain, that those who are in the line of monarchs, to serve their county before completing further formal education. A princess not addicted to Tic Toc maybe ? ? To say I believe we, as a nation, are headed over the cliff, is an understatement. The "root" ? Well, of course we can blame it on coddling parents, but all the coddling at home is not a more powerful force in forming basic personal philosophy, as is the general agreement of parents to abolish all traces of patriotic pride, teaching of history, and the role of the United States as a leading force for liberty from public school curriculum's. Parents have been given the RESPONSIBILITY to determine what they want to emphasize in THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL'S curriculum. THAT is their responsibility, but most seem to prefer to leave it to the federal government and individual teachers (whose personal lives and philosophy may be FAR from the values, goals, and philosophy of the local area ! That is exactly what our wise forefathers anticipated: a national so large, so vast, so diverse, that a "national" or "federally mandated" public school curriculum would be a disaster.

Patriotic holidays were once a major emphasis at ALL grade levels, kindergarten to high school. Now, they are seldom even mentioned at school, let alone the kind of emphasis most of us experienced as young people: school assemblies, speakers, elementary students made red, white, blue decoration during art period, students who finished a math, English, etc. assignment before other students were always directed to the "extra work" box which held patriot coloring sheets, or word search puzzles with "patriotic" words, etc. When we are more concerned with making sure even very young children learn "pronouns" like "ze" and other gender neutral terms, than we are with junior high and high school students who can not name even 4 of the parts of speech, or have no idea what verb "tense" even is, silly as it may seem to some, I think this all works together (throw in "everyone gets a trophy, the winning team and the losing team) to form the "roots" of why so few are interested in joining a military they have been taught is "evil" !
,

[Pairadocs]

The article seemed to cover both of those questions with a good level of detail.

As to your question: Why do people insist on making claims without looking them up first, do they really think no one will check? Proof by emphatic assertion rarely works.

IMHO, they do it in a desperate attempt to appear "knowledgeable"; well educated, informed, well read, to feel they have value (in a society that values less and less all the time). YES, absolutely they believe no one will check, and that actually few even have the skills to do more than a surface "scan" of yahoo or twitter feeds for their "facts". Emotional assertion, they DO believe, works, and honestly, watching the "news" from a variety of sources on the various net works, and in print, seems to support the theory that emphatic assertion DOES work, even works WELL. When one insists that individuals entering a country via illegal means are being beaten, whipped, by brutal border guards carrying whips on horseback... and passionately assert that as truth, when any experienced rider, especially of western style neck reining, knows exactly how a rider uses the reins (also spelled "reigns" by some) to control a horse. Would be nearly impossible to control the horse and at the same time use the reins to whip human beings ! If you ride, you know this ! Emphatic assertion ? I think it does work as does "repetition", repeat it enough, no matter how absurd, never stop, and people WILL believe it !

[Djean1981]

I believe it is cultural. When I turned 18, I knew that college was of no interest to me and going to work in the local large manufacturing plant seemed like jail to me at the time. There was no way my father was going to allow me to live at home for much longer, even if I was employed, so I took the next best option and joined the Navy. It turned out to be the best move ever, as the GI Bill paid for college four years later, and I learned how to be an adult, but I really didn't have much choice. If, like many (probably most) parents today, mine were willing to coddle me, give me a bed and food, wash my clothes, etc., I probably would have stayed home too. Thanks Mom and Dad for your conservative values and willingness to stick to them. It made my life a better place.
Exactly. We were expected out of the house at 18.

[Michael G.]

The #1 reason parents move to the villages, there's no basements for kids to live in......:thumbup:

[I'm Popeye!]

Let's face it...
After the "Greatest Generation" this country has produced and allowed mostly ____.......
......and if you disagree, you are part of the problem! :ho:

[retiredguy123]

Why does the military guarantee a lifetime of support for a soldier and his family, even if he/she never sees any combat action? I think they should recruit people to serve where and when they are needed for a limited term and pay them big bucks. A soldier who serves a deployment in a combat zone should be paid way more than someone sitting behind a desk in the Pentagon, drinking coffee.

[Keefelane66]

Why does the military guarantee a lifetime of support for a soldier and his family, even if he/she never sees any combat action? I think they should recruit people to serve where and when they are needed for a limited term and pay them big bucks. A soldier who serves a deployment in a combat zone should be paid way more than someone sitting behind a desk in the Pentagon, drinking coffee.
You are misinformed VA benefits are for Veterans receiving a disability in line of duty.
Retired Veterans Active or Reserve receive Tri-Care upon completion of service enlistment requirements retirement.
Active duty in War zone receive extra pay also seagoing Sailors receive extra pay. Also Military personnel assigned to isolated duty receive extra pay

[CFrance]

Let's face it...
After the "Greatest Generation" this country has produced and allowed mostly ____.......
......and if you disagree, you are part of the problem! :ho:
Ridiculous blanket accusation.

[fdpaq0580]

I believe it is cultural. When I turned 18, I knew that college was of no interest to me and going to work in the local large manufacturing plant seemed like jail to me at the time. There was no way my father was going to allow me to live at home for much longer, even if I was employed, so I took the next best option and joined the Navy. It turned out to be the best move ever, as the GI Bill paid for college four years later, and I learned how to be an adult, but I really didn't have much choice. If, like many (probably most) parents today, mine were willing to coddle me, give me a bed and food, wash my clothes, etc., I probably would have stayed home too. Thanks Mom and Dad for your conservative values and willingness to stick to them. It made my life a better place.

Conservative values? My folks were liberal but aside from that, you could be telling my story, except my work came from 6 years of Navy schools and experience.

[Babubhat]

Instead of putting people in Coleman, sentence them to join the military. More effective than prison

[Rainger99]

Instead of putting people in Coleman, sentence them to join the military. More effective than prison

I think you have to be convicted of a felony to get into Coleman. Depending on the crime, I would be reluctant to work next to a convicted felon. I wouldn't mind someone convicted of tax evasion but I would prefer not to work with someone convicted of murder.

Jack Henry Abbott - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Henry_Abbott)

[Boston-Sean]

I served in both the Army Reserves and regular Air Force. Worked out great for me.

No way would I advise anyone to join the military today. Would you want the life of your kid in the hands of a buffoon like Mark Milley?

[Garywt]

Kids today are more interested in changing history or eliminating history than making history. The fact the is not politically correct to say master bedroom anymore says it all to me.

[jimbomaybe]

Why does the military guarantee a lifetime of support for a soldier and his family, even if he/she never sees any combat action? I think they should recruit people to serve where and when they are needed for a limited term and pay them big bucks. A soldier who serves a deployment in a combat zone should be paid way more than someone sitting behind a desk in the Pentagon, drinking coffee.
Good idea,, if you had a crystal ball that would look into the future a couple of years, would tell you exactly what the threat will be , where , what will be needed to counter that threat, a long large complex logistical organization is is the only way to give those at the pointy end of the spear the best chance of success, aside of the wisdom of .
Si vis pacem, para bellum is a Latin adage translated as, "If you want peace, prepare for war"

[Villages Kahuna]

At the end of the day, the most effective way to increase military volunteers is to make a military career a financially competitive alternative — pay volunteers a package which encourages the military as a good career choice.

— Enlistment bonuses
— Free college tuition
— Advanced choice of MOS (occupational specialty) training
— Pay which is competitive with opportunities in the private sector

[Drdoug49]

there is a labor shortage everywhere, with declining birth rates, a booming economy young people can get jobs anywhere. Also the number one reason why recruits are rejected, is obesity

[rrtjp]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

1. Why has it fallen?
I think welfare has become a more appealing career choice.
2. How to increase it?
Every illegal alien entering this country gets deported back to where he or she came from or is given the choice of serving in any branch of our military and on being honorable discharged along with a DD214 they also receive their citizenship papers.

[Blackbird45]

People are not going to like why I believe recruitment is down. My parents signed me into the Navy when I was 17. I was a high school dropout from a poor family, jail look like the next stop and for me 4 years in the Navy was the best move. It actually gave me a place to grow up. I don't see recruitment ads on TV anymore, but when they were around it was always directed to the less fortunate. Join the service see the world, get an education, it was directed to people who seem they had no place to go. Today the military wants people with a higher education and those people can do better on the outside. I'm not complaining about the Navy besides giving me a place to grow up, it paid for my schooling when I got out. But when I joined, I remember one of the first things I was told "You are now the property of the Navy". They were right, you were told when to eat, sleep and not knowing where they were going to send you next. Let's be honest being a civilian is a more comfortable life.

[Boffin]

No worries. If necessary a draft will be enacted.

[Bridget Staunton]

All young people should join a branch of the service. My husband said it was the best years of his life & prepared him to become a man, far better than the years in boarding school

[waterflower]

Many are waking up to the bankers using the military to fight illegal wars.Why would you unknowingly kill someone or destroy a country for the un/nato. All criminal groups.

[Bogie Shooter]

Many are waking up to the bankers using the military to fight illegal wars.Why would you unknowingly kill someone or destroy a country for the un/nato. All criminal groups.

Gotta reread this slowly…..lot of political packed into three sentences.

[allsport]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

Walk through a VA Hospital and you will see the ravages of war and military life. The youth of today do not want to go to unsavory locations to support the values of people who have never served. I would NEVER recommend service to anyone, clean up the politics, the places where you end up and respect for all who server no matter the gender, ethnic backgrounds and education. Stop taking drop outs and make it a respected career.

[MandoMan]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

Interesting article. I don’t agree with all of it, but it offers some interesting suggestions for improvement, such as allowing recruits who aren’t married but have children. (That was once considered a way of escaping responsibilities, but these days so many are already escaping them with impunity.) One reason given that hadn’t occurred to me is that recruitment is down because we don’t currently have a war where those in the military can go out and kill people. That could be! But not for most, I think.

However, the article doesn’t mention one big one. I think that from 1980 to 2001, recruiting was based on the idea of enlisting in order to get training in what could be a useful career someday and get access to help with college costs. I recall reading that recruiters were encouraging enlistment by telling kids they were unlikely to be asked to serve in a war zone overseas. Some were allowed to sign up with stated objectives of getting to serve overseas in countries like Germany and South Korea and seeing the world. Enlisting was a career move and NOT a desire to fight for one’s country. As there was no big war, not wanting to go into battle wasn’t considered a big problem. But then came the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Recruits were not only being sent into battle where they might kill or be killed, but many were required to serve multiple tours in war zones. I recall the son of a college girlfriend of mine who enlisted in early 2001 because he was told he’d never have to go into battle, but he served three tours in Afghanistan. He wasn’t wounded, at least physically, but it was harrowing. It may have been wrong to tell recruits they wouldn’t have to serve in combat, whether they want to or not, but one could argue that it was also wrong to enlist in the military without being willing to fight.

I recall reading another article about Coast Guard enlistments being down because enlisted men and women were being sent to war zones instead of staying in the U.S. and doing what the recruitment posters said the National Guard does. A lot of people also decided to not join the Reserves because of the likelihood that they would be sent back to war, disrupting their careers and families. I don’t see any real way around it. You shouldn’t enlist unless you are willing to fight and protect. Getting job training and other benefits should not be the main reason for joining.

I myself would favor a near universal two year conscription for training, followed by a couple decades in the reserves. If you want the right to keep and bear arms, then you ought to be willing to be properly trained to bear them and be willing to actually bear them in war. Israel has a system somewhat like that, and that’s why young Israeli men and women are so confident and strong and brave. They all know they are trained and ready.

[barbnick]

Should be mandatory of 2 years service after graduation from high school. G I bill will continue education after discharge

[srswans]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)

The article did not mention the Covid shots - forcing someone to do this is probably detrimental to recruitment.

[PugMom]

Many are waking up to the bankers using the military to fight illegal wars.Why would you unknowingly kill someone or destroy a country for the un/nato. All criminal groups.

i think you captured something with comment.

[FT9508]

The Gov might try not sending the soldiers into pointless wars that defend the politicians egos more than anything else. In the world of mass media and instant messaging they just can't get away with that anymore.

[maistocars]

Only 1 reason and it's the same reason our best are retiring or leaving the armed forces. I'll leave it there.

[maggie1]

Instead of putting people in Coleman, sentence them to join the military. More effective than prison

Even though the military is having problems in recruiting, they nevertheless are still selective of who they take into the service. I'm certain they won't accept people with even one incident of committing a crime of violence, and that includes a number of acts that fall into that category. Even misdemeanor offenses are scrutinized. Generally speaking, the worst kind of candidate for the military is a soon-to-be convict if they are given the choice of going to prison or the military. Their potential of becoming a discipline problem is great and they are the first to go AWOL. I see Russia is releasing prison inmates to fight in the Euchrain, where they end up as cannon fodder.

[maggie1]

I served in both the Army Reserves and regular Air Force. Worked out great for me.

No way would I advise anyone to join the military today. Would you want the life of your kid in the hands of a buffoon like Mark Milley?

You must be a fan of Tucker Carlson. And we know all about his credibility, don't we?

[GATORBILL66]

[QUOTE=Rainger99;2198927]Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?


START THE DRAFT BACK UP!

[retiredguy123]

I am always skeptical when I read that the military cannot meet their recruitment goals. Aren't they the ones who set the goals? So, is it possible that they set the goals too high on purpose? Currently, there are about 1.2 million active-duty military service members. How many do we need? Just asking.

[OhioBuckeye]

Kids today act tough but they know they don’t like to be told what to do because they think they know everything already. To put it in a nutshell they’re to soft.

[Marine1974]

How do polo players on horseback do that ? How do Calvary horse riders use a sword on their enemy ? The same way a horseman can use a whip if you give it some thought.

[MrFlorida]

After that Afghanistan fiasco, who can blame them ?

[Marine1974]

Why does the military guarantee a lifetime of support for a soldier and his family, even if he/she never sees any combat action? I think they should recruit people to serve where and when they are needed for a limited term and pay them big bucks. A soldier who serves a deployment in a combat zone should be paid way more than someone sitting behind a desk in the Pentagon, drinking coffee.
Our Military is paid combat pay while serving in a war zone .

[nn0wheremann]

The article seemed to cover both of those questions with a good level of detail.
First, follow the money. Next, realize that after two generations of political culture beating up on and promoting mistrust of government, young people have little interest in publi service, and a terrible level of mistrust and ignorance of all governmental institutions, including the military.

Example. A young 35 year old relative died recently, leaving an under-employed widow and two small children. His friends and relatives set up GoFundMe pages, and plans to help with mortgage expenses. None of the even considered applying for Social Security benefits. The minimum amount due would be about 42% of his monthly income. Ignorance and mistrust are not only unwise, these are also expensive.

[ronwinger]

I was drafted within months of graduating from High School. It was the only lottery I ever won, my number was 20. I did not know it at the time but, it was the best thing that happened to me. I wound up spending 3 years as I did not realize I had to work some place for the rest of my life therefore, I did not retire. Of course like everyone, I wish I would have stayed in. I believe that the US should require every male to spend a couple of years in the service. It would or should change their thought process and our outlook of the future would be brighter.

[rrtjp]

Our Military is paid combat pay while serving in a war zone .

Combat pay? Lol.
How much more exactly is that to risk your life serving your country?
As much as a doctor, lawyer or a professional athlete?

[Badger 2006]

1. Why has it fallen?
I think welfare has become a more appealing career choice.
2. How to increase it?
Every illegal alien entering this country gets deported back to where he or she came from or is given the choice of serving in any branch of our military and on being honorable discharged along with a dd214 they also receive their citizenship papers.

right on!

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)


The international prestige of our country has eroded and people are no longer proud to serve.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)
Today's young generation has BETTER access to information that ours did, so, basically, they are making BETTER decisions. Our generation was too selfish!

[Boston-Sean]

You must be a fan of Tucker Carlson. And we know all about his credibility, don't we?

Oh brother.

Why don't you give us your opinion on Mark Milley? Perhaps explain what a great job he did getting us out of Afghanistan. Bonus points for explaining how droning those kids happened.

[Boston-Sean]

Our Military is paid combat pay while serving in a war zone .

And don't forget separation pay if you were separated from your spouse while on deployment. Or as we used to call it "no p***y pay".

[rrtjp]

And don't forget separation pay if you were separated from your spouse while on deployment. Or as we used to call it "no p***y pay".

Lol

[fdpaq0580]

I was drafted within months of graduating from High School. It was the only lottery I ever won, my number was 20. I did not know it at the time but, it was the best thing that happened to me. I wound up spending 3 years as I did not realize I had to work some place for the rest of my life therefore, I did not retire. Of course like everyone, I wish I would have stayed in. I believe that the US should require every male to spend a couple of years in the service. It would or should change their thought process and our outlook of the future would be brighter.

Bring back the draft for everyone, male, female, other. There are jobs that persons with handicaps could do and might enjoy and be proud to serve.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I believe it is cultural. When I turned 18, I knew that college was of no interest to me and going to work in the local large manufacturing plant seemed like jail to me at the time. There was no way my father was going to allow me to live at home for much longer, even if I was employed, so I took the next best option and joined the Navy. It turned out to be the best move ever, as the GI Bill paid for college four years later, and I learned how to be an adult, but I really didn't have much choice. If, like many (probably most) parents today, mine were willing to coddle me, give me a bed and food, wash my clothes, etc., I probably would have stayed home too. Thanks Mom and Dad for your conservative values and willingness to stick to them. It made my life a better place.

Interesting.

When I was 18, education was considered incredibly important to my family. At the time it opened doors to all kinds of possibilities that NOT going to college kept closed.

I couldn't become a doctor without a degree. Couldn't get a decent job as an engineer without at least an associates degree. Couldn't be a teacher without a degree, couldn't even be a police officer without going to the academy - which required more education. If you wanted to work for a newspaper, the owner of the paper would pick the person with the degree EVERY TIME over the person without one, all other qualifications being equal.

I had the choice: I could either go to school and my parents would co-sign the loan and invest in MY future by footing the bill for school expenses that the loan didn't cover -

Or I could stay at home, abide by their rules, get a job, and pay rent -

Or I could move out, abide by the rules of society, get a job, and pay rent.

I chose college. And after my first semester, I worked anywhere between one and four part-time jobs until I graduated with honors. I paid back my loan in full 11 years after I graduated, and from the time I was 16 and 30 days of age (the minimum required to work in my state at the time) until two years ago, I worked almost continuously barring vacations and injuries. Even when I didn't "have to" work for a living, I worked, because my parents instilled a strong work ethic in me. I didn't need the Armed Forces for that. Education was the opener of doors, and service to others was - rather than a contractual obligation via the Armed Forces, was just an expected part of being a human being.

When I graduated, I was then qualified, and educated, and had the opportunity to CHOOSE which kind of career I would go into or whether I would CHOOSE to continue studies for a career that required more education. Society didn't impose that choice on me. No, I didn't become a doctor, or engineer, or teacher. But it was because I chose not to - not because I wasn't authorized to try.

No Navy necessary. No risking my life necessary. No obeying orders no matter what necessary. I didn't have to give up my freedom, to attain my freedom. I only had to allow new thoughts and ideas into my mind, and embrace life as a never-ending education.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Let's face it...
After the "Greatest Generation" this country has produced and allowed mostly ____.......
......and if you disagree, you are part of the problem! :ho:

Who were the parents of the generations to follow? What did THOSE people do wrong, to fail their children so horribly?

[Djean1981]

Today's young generation has BETTER access to information that ours did, so, basically, they are making BETTER decisions. Our generation was too selfish!
Speak only for yourself. How was it selfish that we went into the military (to serve our country and provide for your safety) and worked every day of our lives into our 60s?

[JMintzer]

Interesting.

When I was 18, education was considered incredibly important to my family. At the time it opened doors to all kinds of possibilities that NOT going to college kept closed.

I couldn't become a doctor without a degree. Couldn't get a decent job as an engineer without at least an associates degree. Couldn't be a teacher without a degree, couldn't even be a police officer without going to the academy - which required more education. If you wanted to work for a newspaper, the owner of the paper would pick the person with the degree EVERY TIME over the person without one, all other qualifications being equal.

I had the choice: I could either go to school and my parents would co-sign the loan and invest in MY future by footing the bill for school expenses that the loan didn't cover -

Or I could stay at home, abide by their rules, get a job, and pay rent -

Or I could move out, abide by the rules of society, get a job, and pay rent.

I chose college. And after my first semester, I worked anywhere between one and four part-time jobs until I graduated with honors. I paid back my loan in full 11 years after I graduated, and from the time I was 16 and 30 days of age (the minimum required to work in my state at the time) until two years ago, I worked almost continuously barring vacations and injuries. Even when I didn't "have to" work for a living, I worked, because my parents instilled a strong work ethic in me. I didn't need the Armed Forces for that. Education was the opener of doors, and service to others was - rather than a contractual obligation via the Armed Forces, was just an expected part of being a human being.

When I graduated, I was then qualified, and educated, and had the opportunity to CHOOSE which kind of career I would go into or whether I would CHOOSE to continue studies for a career that required more education. Society didn't impose that choice on me. No, I didn't become a doctor, or engineer, or teacher. But it was because I chose not to - not because I wasn't authorized to try.

No Navy necessary. No risking my life necessary. No obeying orders no matter what necessary. I didn't have to give up my freedom, to attain my freedom. I only had to allow new thoughts and ideas into my mind, and embrace life as a never-ending education.

Who do you think was "protecting" your freedom and "risking their life" all that time?

[coralway]

Probably because about 48% of them have developed bone spurs

[JMintzer]

Probably because about 48% of them have developed bone spurs

Just can't help yourself...

[jimjamuser]

Interesting.

When I was 18, education was considered incredibly important to my family. At the time it opened doors to all kinds of possibilities that NOT going to college kept closed.

I couldn't become a doctor without a degree. Couldn't get a decent job as an engineer without at least an associates degree. Couldn't be a teacher without a degree, couldn't even be a police officer without going to the academy - which required more education. If you wanted to work for a newspaper, the owner of the paper would pick the person with the degree EVERY TIME over the person without one, all other qualifications being equal.

I had the choice: I could either go to school and my parents would co-sign the loan and invest in MY future by footing the bill for school expenses that the loan didn't cover -

Or I could stay at home, abide by their rules, get a job, and pay rent -

Or I could move out, abide by the rules of society, get a job, and pay rent.

I chose college. And after my first semester, I worked anywhere between one and four part-time jobs until I graduated with honors. I paid back my loan in full 11 years after I graduated, and from the time I was 16 and 30 days of age (the minimum required to work in my state at the time) until two years ago, I worked almost continuously barring vacations and injuries. Even when I didn't "have to" work for a living, I worked, because my parents instilled a strong work ethic in me. I didn't need the Armed Forces for that. Education was the opener of doors, and service to others was - rather than a contractual obligation via the Armed Forces, was just an expected part of being a human being.

When I graduated, I was then qualified, and educated, and had the opportunity to CHOOSE which kind of career I would go into or whether I would CHOOSE to continue studies for a career that required more education. Society didn't impose that choice on me. No, I didn't become a doctor, or engineer, or teacher. But it was because I chose not to - not because I wasn't authorized to try.

No Navy necessary. No risking my life necessary. No obeying orders no matter what necessary. I didn't have to give up my freedom, to attain my freedom. I only had to allow new thoughts and ideas into my mind, and embrace life as a never-ending education.
Nice post.

[jimjamuser]

Speak only for yourself. How was it selfish that we went into the military (to serve our country and provide for your safety) and worked every day of our lives into our 60s?
Too selfish and materialistic. Remember the movie where the star said, "Greed IS Good"? That IS an example of what I mean by SELFISH. I hope this generation does NOT go that route.

[jimjamuser]

I was drafted within months of graduating from High School. It was the only lottery I ever won, my number was 20. I did not know it at the time but, it was the best thing that happened to me. I wound up spending 3 years as I did not realize I had to work some place for the rest of my life therefore, I did not retire. Of course like everyone, I wish I would have stayed in. I believe that the US should require every male to spend a couple of years in the service. It would or should change their thought process and our outlook of the future would be brighter.
Why ONLY males.......is it because that IS the way it has ALWAYS been thought about?

[jimjamuser]

there is a labor shortage everywhere, with declining birth rates, a booming economy young people can get jobs anywhere. Also the number one reason why recruits are rejected, is obesity
Obesity IS very sad. Does NOT bode well for the US future. US processed food producers act like they are purposely trying to weaken US strength by adding huge amounts of salt and sugar to EVERYTHING. Hard to have a strong society without strong physical fitness.

[jimjamuser]

Many are waking up to the bankers using the military to fight illegal wars.Why would you unknowingly kill someone or destroy a country for the un/nato. All criminal groups.
I don't think so.................too much Tuckums may be twisting reality.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting article. I don’t agree with all of it, but it offers some interesting suggestions for improvement, such as allowing recruits who aren’t married but have children. (That was once considered a way of escaping responsibilities, but these days so many are already escaping them with impunity.) One reason given that hadn’t occurred to me is that recruitment is down because we don’t currently have a war where those in the military can go out and kill people. That could be! But not for most, I think.

However, the article doesn’t mention one big one. I think that from 1980 to 2001, recruiting was based on the idea of enlisting in order to get training in what could be a useful career someday and get access to help with college costs. I recall reading that recruiters were encouraging enlistment by telling kids they were unlikely to be asked to serve in a war zone overseas. Some were allowed to sign up with stated objectives of getting to serve overseas in countries like Germany and South Korea and seeing the world. Enlisting was a career move and NOT a desire to fight for one’s country. As there was no big war, not wanting to go into battle wasn’t considered a big problem. But then came the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Recruits were not only being sent into battle where they might kill or be killed, but many were required to serve multiple tours in war zones. I recall the son of a college girlfriend of mine who enlisted in early 2001 because he was told he’d never have to go into battle, but he served three tours in Afghanistan. He wasn’t wounded, at least physically, but it was harrowing. It may have been wrong to tell recruits they wouldn’t have to serve in combat, whether they want to or not, but one could argue that it was also wrong to enlist in the military without being willing to fight.

I recall reading another article about Coast Guard enlistments being down because enlisted men and women were being sent to war zones instead of staying in the U.S. and doing what the recruitment posters said the National Guard does. A lot of people also decided to not join the Reserves because of the likelihood that they would be sent back to war, disrupting their careers and families. I don’t see any real way around it. You shouldn’t enlist unless you are willing to fight and protect. Getting job training and other benefits should not be the main reason for joining.

I myself would favor a near universal two year conscription for training, followed by a couple decades in the reserves. If you want the right to keep and bear arms, then you ought to be willing to be properly trained to bear them and be willing to actually bear them in war. Israel has a system somewhat like that, and that’s why young Israeli men and women are so confident and strong and brave. They all know they are trained and ready.
Isreal is surrounded by belligerents. The US is surrounded by 2 oceans and 2 relatively friendly countries.

[jimjamuser]

The article did not mention the Covid shots - forcing someone to do this is probably detrimental to recruitment.
The military especially NEEDS to have ALL of their shots. They are indoors with each other in barracks for long periods of time. Who would want an unvaccinated barrack mate.....certainly NOT me!

[jimjamuser]

i think you captured something with comment.
NATO is very important to the very survival of the US and other FREE countries like Canada, Australia, Japan, and on and on. It is a perfect no-brainer situation!

[jimjamuser]

You expressed it perfectly. It is definitely a cultural "revolution", a totally new society of keyboard "warriors" desperately attempting to build some measure of self-esteem (yet sadly way too often ending in the desperation of suicide). An interesting observation on this recently in the news. The daughter of the king and queen of Spain, age 17, will soon complete what we here call "high school education", and will be joining her country's military. It is the custom in Spain, that those who are in the line of monarchs, to serve their county before completing further formal education. A princess not addicted to Tic Toc maybe ? ? To say I believe we, as a nation, are headed over the cliff, is an understatement. The "root" ? Well, of course we can blame it on coddling parents, but all the coddling at home is not a more powerful force in forming basic personal philosophy, as is the general agreement of parents to abolish all traces of patriotic pride, teaching of history, and the role of the United States as a leading force for liberty from public school curriculum's. Parents have been given the RESPONSIBILITY to determine what they want to emphasize in THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL'S curriculum. THAT is their responsibility, but most seem to prefer to leave it to the federal government and individual teachers (whose personal lives and philosophy may be FAR from the values, goals, and philosophy of the local area ! That is exactly what our wise forefathers anticipated: a national so large, so vast, so diverse, that a "national" or "federally mandated" public school curriculum would be a disaster.

Patriotic holidays were once a major emphasis at ALL grade levels, kindergarten to high school. Now, they are seldom even mentioned at school, let alone the kind of emphasis most of us experienced as young people: school assemblies, speakers, elementary students made red, white, blue decoration during art period, students who finished a math, English, etc. assignment before other students were always directed to the "extra work" box which held patriot coloring sheets, or word search puzzles with "patriotic" words, etc. When we are more concerned with making sure even very young children learn "pronouns" like "ze" and other gender neutral terms, than we are with junior high and high school students who can not name even 4 of the parts of speech, or have no idea what verb "tense" even is, silly as it may seem to some, I think this all works together (throw in "everyone gets a trophy, the winning team and the losing team) to form the "roots" of why so few are interested in joining a military they have been taught is "evil" !
,
I would NOT judge today's US young generation that harshly. Our generation has made mistakes that "bleed into" their generation. I can NEVER knock my PUBLIC EDUCATION and I think that after my generation of PUBLIC EDUCATION that efforts were made to destroy that Public Education for the main purpose of keeping taxes low for the upper brackets and allowing the uber-rich to get their PRIVATE Schools paid for. Nice con job, but it was America that got conned out of GOOD PUBLIC Schools.......so SAD !!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Exactly. We were expected out of the house at 18.
In our generation, children COULD leave the house at 18 because there were Trade Unions that were set up for manufacturing that were EAGER to accept them. But, now, Unions are gone and manufacturing has been outsourced to China. And today, men compete with women for basically, office jobs where women have the better skills, but strangely, get paid LESS than the equivalent man. And BOTH sexes NEED TO HAVE COLLEGE DEGREES , which are pricey at best. No wonder young people are maturing economically later in life than our generation. And no wonder there are so many suicides among young people today........they face MORE pressure than we did. Today's US problems for YOUNG people are etched on the gravestones of UNIONS and OUTSOURCING to China

[jimjamuser]

The #1 reason parents move to the villages, there's no basements for kids to live in......:thumbup:
That is VERY GOOD humor............. because the funniest things ALWAYS have a grain of TRUTH to them. KUDOS!

[jimjamuser]

Instead of putting people in Coleman, sentence them to join the military. More effective than prison
That's what the Russians are doing.......it is backfiring.

[ddeacon1]

I turned 18 in boot camp. I spent the next almost 22 years on active duty in the Navy. I saw what I thought was the downslide back in the early 90's. This was when they started issuing "stress cards" in boot camp. I can tell you right now that as soon as those young sailors got out to the fleet, those cards were laughed at by the older crowd, including myself. I did not need some wuss telling me that he/she was not able to perform a task because they were being stressed. That type of attitude is not anything that I or anyone else needed during an underway replenishment or flight operations. I did not always agree with everything I was told, but at least I was taught to do and ask later. Granted, I did not always get restitution (actually hardly ever). At least, I was given the opportunity most of the time. It was still better than being taken out to the wood shed and still having to do the job.

[Mlundberg]

I was drafted within months of graduating from High School. It was the only lottery I ever won, my number was 20. I did not know it at the time but, it was the best thing that happened to me. I wound up spending 3 years as I did not realize I had to work some place for the rest of my life therefore, I did not retire. Of course like everyone, I wish I would have stayed in. I believe that the US should require every male to spend a couple of years in the service. It would or should change their thought process and our outlook of the future would be brighter.

My number was 14.

[eyc234]

Let's face it...
After the "Greatest Generation" this country has produced and allowed mostly ____.......
......and if you disagree, you are part of the problem! :ho:


Please go tell an Afghan, Iraq or any young veteran that. Luv to see what you get. Also let all the first responders now working that they are worthless. There are good and bad in all generations.

[JMintzer]

I don't think so.................too much Tuckums may be twisting reality.

Unnecessary, vindictive and rude...

[jimjamuser]

Please go tell an Afghan, Iraq or any young veteran that. Luv to see what you get. Also let all the first responders now working that they are worthless. There are good and bad in all generations.
The quality of the generations depends basically on the quality of their education. Today's youngest generation is beset by the NEW problems of Facebook and even darker web media that has POWERFUL psychological factors built into their software - that has the purpose to keep them on longer (24-7) for advertisements. While on they encounter BULLYING, BODY SHAMING, and other negativity, which messes with their heads (brains) to the point of producing suicides in mostly females, but also 25% of teen suicides are boys.
......In total, we have a WEAKER modern generation DUE to FACTORS of manipulated web-media that the US did NOT have problems with before about the recent DECADE. Our generation had ONLY TV, radio, and movies - all of which were REGULATED forcibly by government or industry standards.
.........What standards protect today's early teens? .......NOT Government protection, NOT industry protection, basically NOTHING.
...........I believe that the problems are the elimination of UNIONS, outsourcing to China, the CONCERTED effort to WEAKEN PUBLIC EDUCATION, and the FAILURE of the US Government to regulate Facebook, Instagram, and others (which is directly comparable to the government's failure to regulate the Tobacco Industry and PROTECT its citizens from LUNG CANCER !!!!! Can we NOT learn from our Historic mistakes as a society and country????

[mike234]

Interesting article on the problem with military recruitment.

Any advice as to
1. why it has fallen and
2. how to increase it?

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)
well, lets get the females to register for the draft when they turn 18, just like males have to. anyone have a problem with that?

[Number 10 GI]

My number was 14.

The government wasn't using the lottery system when I was draft eligible. In Nov 1965, I received my induction physical notice for an exam in December and being a healthy 18 year old, I passed. In early Jan 1966 I went to the draft board office in town and asked the person in charge when I could expect my notice. She asked me when do I turn 19 and I said in August and she said that is when I would get drafted.

I couldn't get a good paying job because I wasn't rated 4F (half dead physically), or in the National Guard, and didn't have the money or parental support to go to college so I enlisted. Retired after 20 years and some months.

[jimjamuser]

well, lets get the females to register for the draft when they turn 18, just like males have to. anyone have a problem with that?
No, that would be PROGRESS.

[Jima72]

You are misinformed VA benefits are for Veterans receiving a disability in line of duty.
Retired Veterans Active or Reserve receive Tri-Care upon completion of service enlistment requirements retirement.
Active duty in War zone receive extra pay also seagoing Sailors receive extra pay. Also Military personnel assigned to isolated duty receive extra pay

10 people in our shop working on the flight deck, half on days and half on nights. Only 1 hazardous pay slot to be shared by all of us so you don’ t always get paid extra. This was a 1972 westpac cruise with va37 on the saratoga. Hearing is shot with tinnitus ringing and no comp for that.

[Normal]

Addressing the U.S. Military Recruiting Crisis - War on the Rocks (https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/)
Now is a very poor time to recruit. Several impediments are in the way of enlarging the military.

1. There are jobs everywhere that pay more. And I mean everywhere!
2. We aren’t engaged in any patriotic momentum of war.
3. Training isn’t appealing because employers will take any warm body.
4. Retirement incentives from the military are gone.

I fully support and wish for a substantial military force, but reality is kicking us all in the shorts. The draft was the solution for our country from the 40s till 1970s. Countries have had to go to compulsory or draft obligations across the globe. From Israeli forces to Great Britain, most able bodied male citizens do their part.

[Byte1]

There seems to be a surge in enlistments during times of conflict/war. After 9/11 there was a patriotic surge in enlistments, for example.

[Blueblaze]

I notice recruitment in Rome is way off of 31 B.C. levels, too. Maybe the first sign of a failing democracy is the unwillingness of kids to die for it.

How to solve that problem, and on the way, also prevent democracy from devolving into tyranny? I've heard no better suggestion than Robert Heinlein's -- require service as a requisite for full citizenship, and use that service to indoctrinate kids with the cost, gravity, and responsibility of wielding the franchise, so that maybe some of them will vote the interests of future generations, instead of their own naked envy.

The problem with democracy has always been how to limit the franchise to the competent without infringing on the rights of the incompetent. Sadly, our founding preceded Heinlein's solution by about 200 years. I think it's probably too late now to implement it.

[Byte1]

The quality of the generations depends basically on the quality of their education. Today's youngest generation is beset by the NEW problems of Facebook and even darker web media that has POWERFUL psychological factors built into their software - that has the purpose to keep them on longer (24-7) for advertisements. While on they encounter BULLYING, BODY SHAMING, and other negativity, which messes with their heads (brains) to the point of producing suicides in mostly females, but also 25% of teen suicides are boys.
......In total, we have a WEAKER modern generation DUE to FACTORS of manipulated web-media that the US did NOT have problems with before about the recent DECADE. Our generation had ONLY TV, radio, and movies - all of which were REGULATED forcibly by government or industry standards.
.........What standards protect today's early teens? .......NOT Government protection, NOT industry protection, basically NOTHING.
...........I believe that the problems are the elimination of UNIONS, outsourcing to China, the CONCERTED effort to WEAKEN PUBLIC EDUCATION, and the FAILURE of the US Government to regulate Facebook, Instagram, and others (which is directly comparable to the government's failure to regulate the Tobacco Industry and PROTECT its citizens from LUNG CANCER !!!!! Can we NOT learn from our Historic mistakes as a society and country????

We really don't need unions anymore. They once had a place but not we have laws protecting the worker.
You are also wrong about today's children- young adults.