Global Warming or Global Cooling?

[RichieLion]

We've been hearing about "Global Warming" for years, with some scientists trying to convince the world that it is happening and is caused by the actions of human beings.

When things didn't heat up fast enough, if at all statistically, they started to refer to it as "Climate Change", and we still had to ramp down our industrial lives or face a global catastrophe of some sort.

Now with recent weather events around the world some think that the Earth is actually cooling and that we're in the path of a "Mini Ice Age".

If that's true, is it still our fault, and what do we do now?

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/north-east-news/2010/12/05/author-claims-we-re-in-the-grip-of-a-mini-ice-age-79310-27768699/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1335798/Global-warming-halted-Thats-happened-warmest-year-record.html

[Larryandlinda]

There's a good explanation of this, as well as the possibility that climate change is affected by cosmic rays, in this article in the Christian Science Monitor: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0927/p13s03-sten.html/(page)/2

It appears that neither contributes significantly to it, but "the phenomenon is worth exploring."

From the article, "Dr. Kirkby (a physicist at Europe's center for high-energy physics research in Geneva) and colleagues at several institutions aim to do just that. They've designed an aerosol chamber to test how cosmic rays might affect cloud formation and how significant the effect might be. "You really can't settle the issue by more heated debate," he says. "You need experimental data."

Sounds like a good approach.

[Sparky-30]

The Web site junkscience.com is offering $100,000 to the first person who can prove that humans are responsible for harmful climate change. The Ultimate Global Warming Challenge says — "If you think it's a no-brainer that humans are causing catastrophic global warming, here's your opportunity to earn an easy $100,000."

The Web site lists the specifications for the challenge and the contest rules. It's open until December 1, with the results announced next February. (Political Grapevine)

$100,000 Offered to Prove Global Warming: Can You Save Al Gore?

As soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore continues to duck every person on the planet willing to debate him about his unproven anthropogenic global warming theories, one well-known skeptic has put his money where his mouth is.

[iandwk]

One thing I have noticed about global warming is that several industrious people have found ways to make a lot of money from promoting it. I have come to a personal conclusion that it's all about the money. There are theories floating around that have no basis in fact, and this just may be one. Evolution is another.

As long as I have enough money and life left to enjoy TV, I intend to stay happy. I have a brother-in-law who stays irritated and upset about things like this. I let him do all the worrying for me.

[Larryandlinda]

One thing I have noticed about global warming is that several industrious people have found ways to make a lot of money from promoting it. I have come to a personal conclusion that it's all about the money. There are theories floating around that have no basis in fact, and this just may be one. Evolution is another.

As long as I have enough money and life left to enjoy TV, I intend to stay happy. I have a brother-in-law who stays irritated and upset about things like this. I let him do all the worrying for me.

Dern' tootin' it about money!
Even though this is the warmest decade in recent history, there is so much uncertainty as to why.
We are with you! As free-enterprise-loving, small-business-owning patriotic capitalists who have worked hard (and are still at it) for nearly half a century, we want to live well AND aren't about to sacrifice our hard- and smart-earned savings.
Now this doesn't mean we can't at least pat, if not hug, a tree along the way if it's not out of our way.
We've got a nice assortment of mature ones outside our doors up north and lakeside in TV. Like most of the nature around you, trees are a gift from nature. No need to scorn those tree lovers.
It's about money?
Yes, we love it - people notice our broad grins as we pedal our bikes to the banks. We even own a little stock in some of them. This gives meaning to 'laughing all the way to the bank'

Whether one is a Climate Change believer or skeptic matters little when it comes to being for conservation and against waste and pollution. Green means your surroundings - and there's little doubt that while the cosmos might not be affected, the earth beneath your feet sure knows who's been naughty or nice- and if any of the nasty might not be evident to you now, it might rear its head when the grandkids are your age.

We've been living the win-win and saving huge.
The electric meter runs in reverse, (like having SECO, PEPCO, BG&E, and Allegany Power pay US!!)the line-dried clothing is fresher,and a decade of having three family hybrids with 340,000 maintenance-free 50mpg miles - we're talking enough savings to pamper the most spoiled among us for life.

And how much more fun can you while staying fit than taking a bike ride through the beautiful Villages, being able to wave at your friends and neighbors, and making new ones?
See someone you want to talk to? Pull off the path, put down the foot.
Hungry? pedal right up to the door of your eatery.

Being a friend of your natural environment is here, now, and the rewards are aesthetic, healthy, and monetary - it's by no means a deprivation, even for all those that "wanna stay happy"

Because we've simplified and saved so much 'going eco' we've got some additional capacity to do volunteer work and help takle the worry away from others. So if the brother-in-law reaches capacity, we'll take some from him, too!

L and L

[redwitch]

I don't care if you call it global warming, global cooling or climate change, there is definitely something happening. Would it happen without man and his inventions? Probably. Climate change is cyclical, just much longer cycles than what man usually thinks about. Did man and his inventions hasten this cycle? Again, probably. Not the only cause, of course, but definitely a factor.

I'm not a tree hugger but I am saddened when I see a beautiful tree removed for no reason other than "progress." There is no question our rain forests are being decimated for the wood, for the land and that is a BIG deal and does and will make a huge difference to the future of this planet.

I'm with LandL, though. No matter what we believe, it is good to preserve our earth as much as possible. Recycling is a good thing. Giving away rather than throwing away is a good thing. Walking to the store down the block rather than driving is a good thing. Solar panels on your home is good. Line drying is good (not legal in TV, but still good). And so on and so forth. If everyone tries to do at least a little, it helps our beautiful planet and that is truly a good thing.

So, my vote is that we all try to do what we can. Be considerate not only of our human neighbors but our plant and animal neighbors as well. Try to consume a little less, etc. and so on and so forth.

[downeaster]

I don't care if you call it global warming, global cooling or climate change, there is definitely something happening. Would it happen without man and his inventions? Probably. Climate change is cyclical, just much longer cycles than what man usually thinks about. Did man and his inventions hasten this cycle? Again, probably. Not the only cause, of course, but definitely a factor.

I'm not a tree hugger but I am saddened when I see a beautiful tree removed for no reason other than "progress." There is no question our rain forests are being decimated for the wood, for the land and that is a BIG deal and does and will make a huge difference to the future of this planet.

I'm with LandL, though. No matter what we believe, it is good to preserve our earth as much as possible. Recycling is a good thing. Giving away rather than throwing away is a good thing. Walking to the store down the block rather than driving is a good thing. Solar panels on your home is good. Line drying is good (not legal in TV, but still good). And so on and so forth. If everyone tries to do at least a little, it helps our beautiful planet and that is truly a good thing.

So, my vote is that we all try to do what we can. Be considerate not only of our human neighbors but our plant and animal neighbors as well. Try to consume a little less, etc. and so on and so forth.

You did it again, Redwitch. I would have liked to respond to this thread but I lack the talent to say what I really want to say. You did it for me, again. Thanks.

[JUREK]

One thing I have noticed about global warming is that several industrious people have found ways to make a lot of money from promoting it. I have come to a personal conclusion that it's all about the money. There are theories floating around that have no basis in fact, and this just may be one. Evolution is another.

As long as I have enough money and life left to enjoy TV, I intend to stay happy. I have a brother-in-law who stays irritated and upset about things like this. I let him do all the worrying for me.

I like your post on this. Life is just too short to worry about these things.
Who cares if I drive a Smart car or a Hummer ?

[Sparky-30]

Always follow the $$ trail with these agenda's, they say Al Gore would become a billionaire overnight if cap and trade was to pass.
Listen to Ray Stevens song on Global Warming...Cooling, Climate change or whatever they throw against the wall trying to get it to stick., name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORyzsMZPPUg

[The Great Fumar]

I'm telling you trees are dangerous , While playing golf how many times have you or your friends been hit by a golf ball bouncing off a tree ...and what are trees doing on a golf course anyway, and how many times have you read or seen an accident where people on slippery roads have gone into a ditch and would have been ok if they hadn't hit a tree. Did you ever think about how dangerous sidewalks can be if tree roots pop up the concrete ??
Some of the comments here are shocking . Now I know that hippies need love too, but electric cars, bicycles without motors, walking to a mailbox , Jogging ,,, Folks I learned years ago in a fox hole , NEVER WALK WHEN YOU CAN RIDE ....Al GORE was ugly as a baby and still is to this day .... READ MY LIPS , There is no GLOBAL WARMING ....

Now excuse me while I go out and laugh at my neighbor who is putting out cans for recycling ....and this afternoon I may take a nap or go cut down a tree , I haven't decided yet........

non active fumar .........

ps ..I don't like pink floyd either , Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio...

:evil6::evil6::evil6:

[bkcunningham1]

I'm telling you trees are dangerous , While playing golf how many times have you or your friends been hit by a golf ball bouncing off a tree ...and what are trees doing on a golf course anyway, and how many times have you read or seen an accident where people on slippery roads have gone into a ditch and would have been ok if they hadn't hit a tree. Did you ever think about how dangerous sidewalks can be if tree roots pop up the concrete ??
Some of the comments here are shocking . Now I know that hippies need love too, but electric cars, bicycles without motors, walking to a mailbox , Jogging ,,, Folks I learned years ago in a fox hole , NEVER WALK WHEN YOU CAN RIDE ....Al GORE was ugly as a baby and still is to this day .... READ MY LIPS , There is no GLOBAL WARMING ....

Now excuse me while I go out and laugh at my neighbor who is putting out cans for recycling ....and this afternoon I may take a nap or go cut down a tree , I haven't decided yet........

non active fumar .........

ps ..I don't like pink floyd either , Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio...

:evil6::evil6::evil6:


That is all very enlightening TGF. Thank you for the information. It is a conspiracy. I once witnessed the aftermath of a tree falling on my neighbor's house and cause considerable damage.

But the real question is, if a tree falls in the forest and a tree hugger wasn't around to catch it, whose fault was it anyway? I'm sorry, I got off base there. I couldn't see the forest for all the equipment repaving the intermodel paths.

[Larryandlinda]

<snip>
I'm with LandL, though. No matter what we believe, it is good to preserve our earth as much as possible. Recycling is a good thing. Giving away rather than throwing away is a good thing. Walking to the store down the block rather than driving is a good thing. Solar panels on your home is good. Line drying is good (not legal in TV, but still good). And so on and so forth. If everyone tries to do at least a little, it helps our beautiful planet and that is truly a good thing.

So, my vote is that we all try to do what we can. Be considerate not only of our human neighbors but our plant and animal neighbors as well. Try to consume a little less, etc. and so on and so forth.

Thanks Red, well said.
By the way, great news. The Sunshine state loves you so much they want you to enjoy fresh clothing, lower bills, and a better mothership.

Look what they've done:

http://www.rhodeislandpropertylaw.com/2010/06/articles/zoning-1/is-right-to-dry-wrong-to-try/

Maryland (a.k.a. "the Free State") has a right to dry as well, but not as liberal as the florida law.

there's a rather humorous story in a local iconoclastic website about 'the right to clean underwear in The Villages" that we will not mention here.

Thanks for your efforts, Redwitch, in helping keeps the Villages a clean, safe place to live.
We know you're a fellow bicycle user too, that helps.
We're going on a special Christmas Lights evening ride in Leesburg Saturday
Weather should be perfect. Best way to see the light show in the Venetian Gardens.

L and L

[2BNTV]

Better minds than I, have been trying to solve the world's complex problems.
I agree that as concerned citizens of the world, we should do our best to preserve our planet.

I remember a while ago, someone claimed the world was going to end and he had scientific proof. His book was due out in two months. It's about the money for some people.

I will do my best and be happy.

[The Great Fumar]

Its about money .....Show me a controversy and I'll show you a dollar ...We are told we can't drill wells , we can't build pipe lines, we can't allow ships at sea to empty lavatory's and next we'll be back to 3/2 beer.....
Years ago a guy tried to tell us all that Flying was the most dangerous way to travel and we should never even consider it , well its bunk , TRAINS are the most dangerous , I would never travel on a train ...I remember in the 50's a train wrecked on horse shoe curve in Idaho and killed 238 people , It true , honest , I think a plane fell on it .......
Anything that will sell books will be printed and a gullible public will buy it ..

Having said that, how was your day???

to cold to play golf fumar ...:coolsmiley:

[tpop1]

Years ago a guy tried to tell us all that Flying was the most dangerous way to travel and we should never even consider it , well ts bunk , TRAINS are the most dangerous

...isn't this more propaganda......those of us in TV KNOW it's golf carts that are the most dangerous...or maybe it's golf cart drivers!!!:laugh:

[swrinfla]

Once again, I think you all have been taking "the waters!" :a040:

I'm thinking that maybe I should go back to being on a cruise ship, where no one really cares what's happening, so long as the ship doesn't run out of pinot grigio!

That said, it was a shock to arrive at Port Everglades last Friday and see all the worker-bees bundled up in winter gear!

Ah, well! This too shall pass!

SWR
:beer3:

[Hoosierb4]

I appreciate some of the good humor in the previous responses, but can't resist injecting some more serious thoughts.

I participated in some of the UNEP working groups that wrote the reports that support the government officials who ultimately make the decisions (if any) regarding the protocols regarding global warming. My participation was sponsored by an industry association that has a stake in whatever decisions are reached. (Although you can't officially represent any group, you can be sponsored by groups.) Our industry is having to spend a lot of money to meet energy and ozone-related regulations. My impression was that the people involved in these studies (some from industry, some from universities, and some from government labs around the world) were doing their best to understand the science and were among the most knowledgeable people in the world on the subject. The representatives of activist groups who were present were pretty much balanced by the representatives of industry who were there.

I personally believe that human activities that result in the emission of global warming gases are making the atmosphere warmer than it otherwise would be. This belief is based on some knowledge of heat transfer mechanisms (two advanced degrees in this area) and from much evidence of melting ice in the northern hemisphere, along with the climate data that has been published.

I also believe that we need to be investing in alternative energy development and efficiency improvements, particularly in transportation. Unfortunately, this will require some spending. The government can do it directly, but this will eventually require some tax money. Private industry will do it when the incentive is high enough. But, this means higher prices for all forms of energy. Either way we have to pay...or be prepared for some significant weather extremes.

[The Great Fumar]

...isn't this more propaganda......those of us in TV KNOW it's golf carts that are the most dangerous...or maybe it's golf cart drivers!!!:laugh:

You got me on that one !! I stand corrected.......

fumar...:swear:

[The Great Fumar]

I appreciate some of the good humor in the previous responses, but can't resist injecting some more serious thoughts.

I participated in some of the UNEP working groups that wrote the reports that support the government officials who ultimately make the decisions (if any) regarding the protocols regarding global warming. My participation was sponsored by an industry association that has a stake in whatever decisions are reached. (Although you can't officially represent any group, you can be sponsored by groups.) Our industry is having to spend a lot of money to meet energy and ozone-related regulations. My impression was that the people involved in these studies (some from industry, some from universities, and some from government labs around the world) were doing their best to understand the science and were among the most knowledgeable people in the world on the subject. The representatives of activist groups who were present were pretty much balanced by the representatives of industry who were there.

I personally believe that human activities that result in the emission of global warming gases are making the atmosphere warmer than it otherwise would be. This belief is based on some knowledge of heat transfer mechanisms (two advanced degrees in this area) and from much evidence of melting ice in the northern hemisphere, along with the climate data that has been published.

I also believe that we need to be investing in alternative energy development and efficiency improvements, particularly in transportation. Unfortunately, this will require some spending. The government can do it directly, but this will eventually require some tax money. Private industry will do it when the incentive is high enough. But, this means higher prices for all forms of energy. Either way we have to pay...or be prepared for some significant weather extremes.

Its all coming back to me now !!! WOODSTOCK RIGHT ????

[gongoozler]

http://www.toilette-humor.com/images/global-warming.jpg

Need we say more?

[Yoda]

I can remember back in the 70s of the headlines on Time magazine and others did herald the coming of a new Ice Age. I guess I missed it. But I do not believe that they were blaming it on man at the time. Recently they said that global warming is now a threat to the planet and offering what they considered evidence that was caused by man. When that didn't work we are now being told that mankind is the cause of climate change. Global warming having been reduced to a hoax.

Give a listen to this. It makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps it will to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVIlEatFPvU


Just a thought.

Yoda

[RichieLion]

I personally believe that human activities that result in the emission of global warming gases are making the atmosphere warmer than it otherwise would be.

This is the only point in your post that I need to address because it all boils down to this. It's your belief.

You have, and no one does, have any definitive proof of "man made global warming". You don't even have proof of global warming as the Earth has not gotten any warmer for at least the last 15 years.

The religion of "Global Warming" is really all about stripping the wealth of the industrialized world and redistributing it.

[Hoosierb4]

Richie..."Definitive proof" of the cause of something as complex as global warming is something hard to get, or even recognize when you see it. It's something like trying to prove that smoking causes cancer. I doubt that, even now, the tobacco companies are willing to accept that there is "definitive proof" that it does. But, the preponderance of the evidence says that it does, so I choose not to smoke. With respect to global warming, the predictions of studies based on some pretty good science say it is likely to happen and measurements of things like air temperature and glacier ice thickness confirm it. Take a look at the subject "Global Warming" in Wikipedia and you'll see some clear trends.

The debate that continues today is largely political, with those who have a vested interest in continuing to depend on oil and coal continuing to fight attempts to redirect resources to clean energy sources. They have succeeded in delaying a significant effort in the US.

Incidentally, I think there still is a Flat Earth Society that denies that the world is round.

[RichieLion]

Richie..."Definitive proof" of the cause of something as complex as global warming is something hard to get, or even recognize when you see it. It's something like trying to prove that smoking causes cancer. I doubt that, even now, the tobacco companies are willing to accept that there is "definitive proof" that it does. But, the preponderance of the evidence says that it does, so I choose not to smoke. With respect to global warming, the predictions of studies based on some pretty good science say it is likely to happen and measurements of things like air temperature and glacier ice thickness confirm it. Take a look at the subject "Global Warming" in Wikipedia and you'll see some clear trends.

The debate that continues today is largely political, with those who have a vested interest in continuing to depend on oil and coal continuing to fight attempts to redirect resources to clean energy sources. They have succeeded in delaying a significant effort in the US.

Incidentally, I think there still is a Flat Earth Society that denies that the world is round.

Sorry, but the costs and hardships to the economies, and the people, of industrialized nations (e.g. The United States) are far too much for the infinitesimal results to any "climate change", forecast by even by the most optimistic of warming zealots.

[Hoosierb4]

Sparky, there are natural swings in the earth's temperature caused by things like solar activity (sunspots, etc.), that are beyond my knowledge. The "global warming" that we are concerned with is the difference between what the temperature would be without our influence and what it is. In some cases the warming might, indeed, be beneficial. But, I believe that we are now in a relatively warm period that is being made warmer by the CO2 and other warming gases that we've put up there. My brother, who lives near the Canadian border, says he votes for global warming. In Florida....that's another story.

[Larryandlinda]

Sparky, there are natural swings in the earth's temperature caused by things like solar activity (sunspots, etc.), that are beyond my knowledge. The "global warming" that we are concerned with is the difference between what the temperature would be without our influence and what it is. In some cases the warming might, indeed, be beneficial. But, I believe that we are now in a relatively warm period that is being made warmer by the CO2 and other warming gases that we've put up there. My brother, who lives near the Canadian border, says he votes for global warming. In Florida....that's another story.

Wonder if the Developers will say the sinking of the Bridge at LSL is actually a rising 'lake' and not be responsible?

If the gulf and ocean rise enough, many of us will have beachfront homes.

Us? we are still not sure, even though one of us has been an armchair instigator all his life and the other a former NASA member up here at Goddard.

We are both lifelong thriftmongers and agree that being eco friendly is about saving lots of money and having friendlier surroundings.

We're bringing some warmer weather tomorrow night, we guarantee it.

L and L

[Russ_Boston]

Incidentally, I think there still is a Flat Earth Society that denies that the world is round.

Funny that you use this logic.

I would say that 'back then' there were only a few who thought the earth was round and they were cast out (in some cases executed!) but eventually proven correct.

In today's debate you are looked down upon if you think that, yes the earth may be getting warmer, but man is not making it happen much quicker, if at all, than it would have happened.

Just like in the flat earth debate, the few may be correct again. Only time will tell. In the meantime lots and lots of people are making huge money off the fear.

[JUREK]

Just like in the flat earth debate, the few may be correct again. Only time will tell. In the meantime lots and lots of people are making huge money off the fear.

It upsets me that a buffoon like GORE should make one penny off of this.
This man is a fool.

[Taj44]

Actually, The Climate Project is Al Gore's climate change leadership program and is a part of the Alliance for Climate Protection, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. TCP's mission is to educate the public about the harmful effects of climate change and to work toward solutions at a grassroots level worldwide. The profits from "An Inconvenient Truth" were similiarly directed 100% towards education on climate change.

The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it. ~Voltaire

[scrapple]

I appreciate some of the good humor in the previous responses, but can't resist injecting some more serious thoughts.

I participated in some of the UNEP working groups that wrote the reports that support the government officials who ultimately make the decisions (if any) regarding the protocols regarding global warming. My participation was sponsored by an industry association that has a stake in whatever decisions are reached. (Although you can't officially represent any group, you can be sponsored by groups.) Our industry is having to spend a lot of money to meet energy and ozone-related regulations. My impression was that the people involved in these studies (some from industry, some from universities, and some from government labs around the world) were doing their best to understand the science and were among the most knowledgeable people in the world on the subject. The representatives of activist groups who were present were pretty much balanced by the representatives of industry who were there.

I personally believe that human activities that result in the emission of global warming gases are making the atmosphere warmer than it otherwise would be. This belief is based on some knowledge of heat transfer mechanisms (two advanced degrees in this area) and from much evidence of melting ice in the northern hemisphere, along with the climate data that has been published.

I also believe that we need to be investing in alternative energy development and efficiency improvements, particularly in transportation. Unfortunately, this will require some spending. The government can do it directly, but this will eventually require some tax money. Private industry will do it when the incentive is high enough. But, this means higher prices for all forms of energy. Either way we have to pay...or be prepared for some significant weather extremes.

Thank you! :BigApplause:

[RichieLion]

Thank you! :BigApplause:

belief is not science

[iandwk]

I posted on this thread yesterday and it was removed by the administrator. In thinking back to what I said, I agree with the decision to remove it. I will rephrase it a bit and try not to be offensive to those in the Middle East who are not terrorists.

I am not worried about global warming. If it is indeed happening and mankind is the cause, I don't think it will doom us to extinction. I happen to believe what the Bible teaches about the end of mankind on the earth and the end of the earth, but I won't get into that here.

Man has been stumbling along on the planet for several thousand years, making mistakes and correcting them, yet somehow always advancing. I have no reason to believe that it won't continue. I refuse to apologize for the past and for being human. I think all of us today are beneficiaries of those who have shaped the past and gotten us to this point.

I do believe there is a force in the world today that can change a lot of the good mankind has accomplished, if not completely destroy it. I am more worried about that than I am anything that our lifestyle can do to make the future worse for mankind. Our government is bowing to the pressure of interest groups that is changing a lot of the things we have always held as core beliefs. The media for the most part has joined in on this. There are a lot of things that we used to think were wrong that have been made to seem right by the media, portraying these beliefs as funny and poking fun at those who disagree with that stance. Now we find a lot of these things to be not only acceptable to the general public, but becoming law in a lot of cases.

Just one small example, the thought that marriage is outdated and obsolete. Anyone who thinks that a child raised by a single parent is as well adjusted as one raised in a nuclear family has fallen prey to the media's and our governments portrayal of this as normal. Anyone who says otherwise is ostracized by the media. They portray us as buffoons who are uneducated and out of touch with reality.

I firmly believe in freedom of religion. I think that is one of the things that has allowed America to be the great nation it is. I think we may have gotten a bit too tolerant about it, though. We can't allow people to break our laws and generally defy what has made us what we are in the name of religion. I find that to be intolerable. Worship the way you desire, but obey the laws of the land. If you can't tolerate these laws, there are other places in the world that will accept you.

This kind of stuff scares me much more than the threat of global warming.

[Taj44]

I find it interesting to read media from other parts of the world. It gives a fresh perspective, and often offers information that the media here seeks to ignore or is unaware of. Everything I've read indicates that about 97% of actively publishing climate scientists agree with the concept of man-made climate change i.e. global warming. This link to a UK media source also points out some interesting information http://www.wessexscene.co.uk/science/2010/11/30/climate-change-sceptics-healthy-cynics-or-shameless-liars/ And interestingly, many of the industries that contribute to climate change, like the oil companies, have lavishly funded studies and institutes to question the science and produce anti-warming propoganda. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to see what is going on. The corporations that are causing climate change, are funding a propoganda campaign to get people to question the science of climate change, so the companies can ultimately continue with their non-environmentally friendlly processes and protect their financial interests.

[bkcunningham1]

I'm just curious if anyone knows how much we as taxpayers have spent on finding, studying, researching etc. the development of, as Jimmy Carter put it in 1977, "permanent and reliable new energy sources. The most promising, of course, is solar energy, for which most of the technology is already available."

Today, 2 percent of energy is produced by green sources like wind, solar and biomass like plant and animal materials.

[Hoosierb4]

It always appeared to me that when the oil industry added something to the global warming discussion, it was usually intended to delay any significant actions by saying there's still some doubt about the science. Other industries generally participated by supplying data and results of studies that helped quantify what's happening, or supported less onerous actions than those that were favored by more activist groups. The intent was to make sure that any regulations were based on good data and not so severe as to do more harm than good. I generalize here...there's some grey between the black and white. Incidentally, the discussions within the technical groups were much more civil than some statements made in the media.

[bkcunningham1]

Hoosierb4, were you associated with the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change or associated with the independent panel, The InterAcademy Council, the group who took issue with the IPCC's findings?

For those who don't know, the IPCC, the climate science arm of the UN, is the group who forecast the imminent melting of Himalayan glaciers, the rate of melt of polar ice caps and dwindling Amazon rainforests.

[Hoosierb4]

BK....I had a relatively minor role in the IPCC as one of the many authors of a couple of the supporting reports. The IAC actually didn't criticize the findings of the IPCC. They were asked (by the IPCC chair and the Secretary General of the UN) to review the processes and procedures of the IPCC. In their report they had several valid recommendations to improve the management structure and processes of the IPCC, but did not comment on the validity of the conclusion that global warming is occurring and is increased due to human activity. Those conclusions are accepted as valid by an overwhelming majority of the scientists who have knowledge in this area.

[RichieLion]

AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH

They're trying to hold a global warming summit in Cancun, Mexico at the moment and Cancun is experiencing it's COLDEST TEMPERATURES in about a 100 years. :1rotfl:

Sometimes it doesn't pay for an "environmentalist" to get out of bed :a20:

I wonder how the pina coladas are? :jester:

http://theweek.com/article/index/210181/irony-alert-the-unusually-chilly-global-warming-summit

[iandwk]

BK....I had a relatively minor role in the IPCC as one of the many authors of a couple of the supporting reports. The IAC actually didn't criticize the findings of the IPCC. They were asked (by the IPCC chair and the Secretary General of the UN) to review the processes and procedures of the IPCC. In their report they had several valid recommendations to improve the management structure and processes of the IPCC, but did not comment on the validity of the conclusion that global warming is occurring and is increased due to human activity. Those conclusions are accepted as valid by an overwhelming majority of the scientists who have knowledge in this area.

Hoosierb4, I respect your observations, but I think all of us have to understand that the majority of scientists have been wrong about a number of things. I can remember when they had a big ruckus over accepting the big bang theory. It sounded too much like creationism and it scared/angered them to think they may have been wrong all along. Medical science is often wrong. They can be wrong about this, also. Their case sure wasn't helped by the fraud that turned up a few months ago.

Unfortunately, there are theories that you either espouse or you get blackballed. Scientists who believe in God and divine creation are considered charlatans. Scientists who disagree with global warming are being blackballed, also.

[Russ_Boston]

Scientists who believe in God and divine creation are considered charlatans. Scientists who disagree with global warming are being blackballed, also.

I would venture a guess that FAR more scientists disagree with current global warming theories than those that believe in creationism. But they may all be correct, who knows?

[Hoosierb4]

iandwk...It's true that sometimes the scientists can be wrong. But, in this case the predictions, made with mathematical models, clearly point to warming and measurements are supporting the predictions. The nature of global warming substances is that they allow the radiation from the sun to pass through to the ground, but absorb much of the longer wavelength radiation from the ground before it escapes to space. It's fairly straightforward when you look at a simplified model. It's sort of the opposite of what clouds do. The really complicated part of it is when you look at a a 3-d model of the entire atmosphere and the earth's surface.

What is true is that natural effects like solar activity can overwhelm the effects of what we do by putting more CO2 in the atmosphere. But, the "global warming" that we are concerned with is superimposed on top of the natural cycles.

[iandwk]

iandwk...It's true that sometimes the scientists can be wrong. But, in this case the predictions, made with mathematical models, clearly point to warming and measurements are supporting the predictions. The nature of global warming substances is that they allow the radiation from the sun to pass through to the ground, but absorb much of the longer wavelength radiation from the ground before it escapes to space. It's fairly straightforward when you look at a simplified model. It's sort of the opposite of what clouds do. The really complicated part of it is when you look at a a 3-d model of the entire atmosphere and the earth's surface.

What is true is that natural effects like solar activity can overwhelm the effects of what we do by putting more CO2 in the atmosphere. But, the "global warming" that we are concerned with is superimposed on top of the natural cycles.

I think my main gripe is the fact that they blame it on our activities, if it is indeed happening. If it is happening and if we are causing it, I wish the politicians would stay out of it and quit using it to promote their agendas, such as cap and trade and numerous others. They try to guilt us into buying into their agendas. Then it becomes rep vs. dem and there goes the price of all of our commodities. Then they try to start raising taxes to take even more, all in the name of whatever their current agenda happens to be.

[thomas borst]

sorry to say, but i have seen it for my self, living here in lake county for the past 26 yrs, seeing only the villages / orange blossom gardens, after the trailor park was compleated, and then started bulding on the west sid of 441 i seen noting but trees getting ripped out of the ground and burned in massive piles. what a wast, the county/contractors/ builders, should of reprosesed the trees and used properly for building materials rather than paluting the air and the only reson thay burned the trees were that they didn't want to lose any more time holding up their construction, and thay are still burnning trees on the southside of 466A and thay are so far back in the woods so we cannot see all the trees getting burned, it saddens me that the county will awiow this to happen, ho gives the county the rights to let them polute our air, and im not putting the blam on the residents, but we must make sure that the trees are use for the best for mankind, and the air that we breath,

[The Great Fumar]

Frankly I take this Global Warming very seriously ......thats why I went out yesterday and bought a winter coat.....
Even the very liberal University of Michigan says it mostly BUNK !!!!

Would someone please turn up the heat !!!

frigid fumar .........:cold:

[iandwk]

sorry to say, but i have seen it for my self, living here in lake county for the past 26 yrs, seeing only the villages / orange blossom gardens, after the trailor park was compleated, and then started bulding on the west sid of 441 i seen noting but trees getting ripped out of the ground and burned in massive piles. what a wast, the county/contractors/ builders, should of reprosesed the trees and used properly for building materials rather than paluting the air and the only reson thay burned the trees were that they didn't want to lose any more time holding up their construction, and thay are still burnning trees on the southside of 466A and thay are so far back in the woods so we cannot see all the trees getting burned, it saddens me that the county will awiow this to happen, ho gives the county the rights to let them polute our air, and im not putting the blam on the residents, but we must make sure that the trees are use for the best for mankind, and the air that we breath,

I don't know about what you mention here. I do know that it is common practice to burn debris from the trees on a construction site. From my observation, they harvest the trees for lumber and burn the limbs and root left behind. If they bury the rubble, it attracts termites and creates hollows in the ground that eventually cave in. I don't know if that is what they are doing in TV. I'm not defending their practices, but maybe what you are seeing is what I've described here.