Gun could have fired without trigger being pulled.

[Taltarzac725]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

A source familiar with the case told CNN that the possibility of modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun was learned by the special prosecutors overseeing the case in New Mexico. The source said that the modifications to the gun used in the 2021 shooting on the set of “Rust” included the potential ability for the gun to discharge a bullet without the trigger being pulled – a claim which has been asserted by Baldwin, who referenced it in an interview with CNN last August.

[Djean1981]

It was a stage/prop gun, so at some point it would have been fired during the movie production...

[Two Bills]

So the FBI gun inspection report was wrong?

[Taltarzac725]

So the FBI gun inspection report was wrong?

Looks like it. And they may be investigating who and why the trigger was modified.

[Two Bills]

Looks like it. And they may be investigating who and why the trigger was modified.

Well.
If I was in prison on the evidence of an FBI "Gun Expert" my lawyer would be filing my new appeal first thing Monday morning!

[Taltarzac725]

Well.
If I was in prison on the evidence of an FBI "Gun Expert" my lawyer would be filing my new appeal first thing Monday morning!


We will have to get more facts on that but you are probably right that many defense lawyers and jailhouse ones are looking at this situation with new hope for their own cases.

[JMintzer]

Looks like it. And they may be investigating who and why the trigger was modified.

Yes... I'll trust "a source at CNN" rather than an actual gun expert at the FBI...

[Taltarzac725]

Yes... I'll trust "a source at CNN" rather than an actual gun expert at the FBI...

Can we all say hearsay.

[Taltarzac725]

Alec Baldwin'''s '''Rust''' criminal charges officially dropped; director injured in fatal shooting spotted on set | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-criminal-charges-officially-dropped-as-director-injured-fatal-shooting-spotted-on-set)

I rarely watch Fox News but did check this.

[JMintzer]

Alec Baldwin'''s '''Rust''' criminal charges officially dropped; director injured in fatal shooting spotted on set | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-criminal-charges-officially-dropped-as-director-injured-fatal-shooting-spotted-on-set)

I rarely watch Fox News but did check this.

They are just reporting the same story as everyone else...

I realize that you do want Baldwin to be innocent... But that doesn't male it so...

OJ was found to be "not guilty", but we all know how that went down...

[Taltarzac725]

They are just reporting the same story as everyone else...

I realize that you do want Baldwin to be innocent... But that doesn't male it so...

OJ was found to be "not guilty", but we all know how that went down...

Alex Baldwin is innocent until proven guilty. And OJ obviously murdered those two people. Baldwin murdered no one that I know of.

[manaboutown]

Alex Baldwin is innocent until proven guilty. And OJ obviously murdered those two people. Baldwin murdered no one that I know of.

Alec shot a woman to death without checking to see if the revolver he pointed at her was loaded with live rounds. It was not during a "take" or filming. He was carelessly fooling around with the gun. He was charged not with murder, but involuntary homicide.

[manaboutown]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

CNN? The primary source of fake news? lol

Alec killed the woman with a revolver. A revolver's hammer must first be pulled back, then released to fire a round whether it is a single or double action weapon.

I am going with the FBI lab on this one.

[JMintzer]

Alex Baldwin is innocent until proven guilty. And OJ obviously murdered those two people. Baldwin murdered no one that I know of.

Yet OJ was found to be "not guilty"...

[billethkid]

Some of the replies indicate a lack of knowledge just how a single action revolver works.....

___________________________________________

:censored:

[Bill14564]

Some of the replies indicate a lack of knowledge just how a single action revolver works.....

___________________________________________

:censored:

how a single action revolver works before or after some unspecified modifications?

If you have some additional information, please share!

[JMintzer]

how a single action revolver works before or after some unspecified modifications?

If you have some additional information, please share!

If it's a "single action" revolver, the hammer MUST be manually set back by hand...

Changes to the trigger will have ZERO effect on this fact...

Now, it the revolver was a "double action", that would require more than just "some trigger modifications"...

[Taltarzac725]

Can a Gun Discharge without Pulling the Trigger? (https://gunsafetytrainingpro.com/possibility-of-negligent-discharge-when-gun-trigger-isnt-pulled/)

Think he/she knows of what she/he writes.

You might be wondering about the issue of negligent discharge because of what you may have seen in movies or on TV shows. The truth is back in the “Old West,” it was very possible to make a gun negligently discharge by simply dropping or jostling it.

However, today, this is much less likely to happen, thanks to a safety feature known as a firing pin block. As the name implies, this device isolates the firing pin and prevents it from directly hitting the primer without pulling the trigger.

[tophcfa]

If it's a "single action" revolver, the hammer MUST be manually set back by hand...

Changes to the trigger will have ZERO effect on this fact...

Now, it the revolver was a "double action", that would require more than just "some trigger modifications"...

Exactly

[RICH1]

I smell a white envelope full of money! That Prosecutor needs to be investigated by the FBI….

[jedalton]

how did a live bullet get in the gun?

[Blackbird45]

I worked in the business for 35 years and during that time there were many sets that had firearms. I don't know if the trigger was pulled or not and even if that is the important issue. The full responsibility is on the person who in charge with handling these guns. On the sets I worked on the prop master, or his assistant would show up on the set just before they were ready to shoot, show the talent that the gun was empty and wait around until they were finished and collect it. The mere fact that any other than the armorer had access put the blame squarely on them. There was another question where the gun was aimed. I wasn't there but in most cases it's the director or the cinematographer who will direct the actor on everything to achieve the shot they're looking for. I was on a dark roof top one night where a crew member fell down a five-story building airshaft, we broke for lunch as the fire department got him out and when right back up to finish the shot under the same conditions. The bottom line even though someone died on this shoot, this whole thing was overblown since a star was involved. Movie sets can be dangerous places to work, long hours, fast pace, and young crews, what could possibly go wrong.

[Worldseries27]

yet oj was found to be "not guilty"...
as jack once said, " you ( we) can't handle the truth".

[dhdallas]

There is still the question of why there was a live round in the firearm and why there was live ammunition on the set in the first place. The media loves to speculate. Readers should discount every article that uses the words, possible, may have, could have, might be, conceivable, hypothetical, feasible, etc. and stick to the known facts.

[oneclickplus]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

Each and every person who touches the gun is responsible to check if a gun is loaded. For instance as soon as person A takes the gun from where it was sitting or being stored, Person A checks the gun, Now person A hands the gun to person B and just before the hand off, Person A rechecks the gun in view of person B, who takes the gun and checks it again. ETC right up to the very last person to get the gun, and while the gun is with the last person, any time this person might set the gun aside for a while, they need to check it again, and then when returning the gun back to it’s storage location, and again recheck the gun before giving it to the armorer, who again checks the gun before storing the gun. The long and short of it, it takes mere seconds to visually inspect a gun to ensure it is empty, and it should never be assumed to be empty until you visually inspect the gun yourself. As far as Mr. Baldwin is concerned, he was the last person receiving the gun, it is his responsibility to check the gun that ended up killing and injuring those two people. The fatal discharge falls firmly in Mr. Baldwin’s lap and nobody else’s.

[spexdr]

Well.
If I was in prison on the evidence of an FBI "Gun Expert" my lawyer would be filing my new appeal first thing Monday morning!

Unfortunately you would have been in jail (after being processed), (Baldwin may have gotten preferential treatment), wrongfully, and had the expense of a lawyer and bail. Perhaps have been fired from your job and have the suspicion of some neighbors. Maybe your child would be excluded from events, etc. This whole thing was mishandled.

[holmesperdue]

And how does live ammunition get on any movie site,,,

[toeser]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

He still had some responsibility. First, it is ALWAYS the responsibility of a person holding a gun to know if it's loaded. That responsibility cannot be farmed out to another party. Second, guns should never be pointed at someone else unless you intend to fire at them.

[Djean1981]

I'd would not trust either.. (cnn or fbi)

[MrFlorida]

Yes... I'll trust "a source at CNN" rather than an actual gun expert at the FBI...

I would trust neither !

[lpkruege1]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.


1. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FIREARM POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION.


2. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY WERE LOADED.


3. KEEP YOUR TRIGGER FINGER OUTSIDE THE GUARD AND OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.

4. BE CERTAIN OF YOUR TARGET, YOUR LINE OF FIRE, AND WHAT LIES BEYOND YOUR TARGET.

He pulled the trigger and a woman died.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

I don't understand why he was charged in the first place. There was absolutely no intent involved on his part.

[Taltarzac725]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger. If he had then they would not have dropped the case. These prosecutors were seeking a big win regardless of the facts.

[airstreamingypsy]

Yes... I'll trust "a source at CNN" rather than an actual gun expert at the FBI...

You do know that CNN reported the news, they didn't drop the charges. You'll be happy to know the case against him can be reopened.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

They are just reporting the same story as everyone else...

I realize that you do want Baldwin to be innocent... But that doesn't male it so...

OJ was found to be "not guilty", but we all know how that went down...

What a vicious comment.

[airstreamingypsy]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger.

I agree, but even if he had, there shouldn't have been live ammo in the gun. Actors point and pull triggers all day long on movie sets. The idea that Alec Baldwin would deliberately shoot that woman is ridiculous.

[Bill14564]

1. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FIREARM POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION.


2. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY WERE LOADED.


3. KEEP YOUR TRIGGER FINGER OUTSIDE THE GUARD AND OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.

4. BE CERTAIN OF YOUR TARGET, YOUR LINE OF FIRE, AND WHAT LIES BEYOND YOUR TARGET.

He pulled the trigger and a woman died.

You do realize it was a prop gun on a movie set, right? Apparently there is some question whether he pulled the trigger and reason to believe the mechanism had been modified.

Movie set - make believe - perhaps not a real gun - certainly should not have had real ammunition - supposedly the safety expert on the set had certified that the gun was safe. Somewhat similar to playing cowboys and indians or cops and robbers as a kid in your backyard.

[billethkid]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger. If he had then they would not have dropped the case. These prosecutors were seeking a big win regardless of the facts.

So.....he pulled the hammer back and did not pull the trigger?
The hammer on a single action pistol must be pulled back before the pistol can be fired!!!!!
The case demonstrates lack of firearm understanding and the use, abuse or hide behind the law lawyering!!!

[Taltarzac725]

So.....he pulled the hammer back and did not pull the trigger?
The hammer on a single action pistol must be pulled back before the pistol can be fired!!!!!
The case demonstrates lack of firearm understanding and the use, abuse or hide behind the law lawyering!!!

The gun supposedly was modified so the trigger did not need to be pulled for it to go off. The person who made that modification is the one who should face the music for the death of the woman and the injury to the man and the rush to judgment by fame seeking prosecutors.

[Malsua]

The gun supposedly was modified so the trigger did not need to be pulled for it to go off. The person who made that modification is the one who should face the music for the death of the woman and the injury to the man and the rush to judgment by fame seeking prosecutors.

So how exactly does a single action revolver fire? I know, apparently you don't.

_SOMETHING_ has to strike the primer.

They don't just go off at random.

Did he pull the hammer most of the way and let go? That would qualify as "not pulling the trigger".

Did he strike the hammer with his palm and push it into primer? Because while it's true guns could go off before the blocking mechanisms were added, this was due to something striking the hammer. I.E. the gun was dropped and the hammer hit the ground and pushed into the primer.

[pedwards2932]

Not sure but I don't recall CNN having to pay 787 million dollars for "fake news". Just saying. If they dropped the charges it pretty much means they can't prove their case as it stands. Law suits to follow.

[Taltarzac725]

The gun experts have said that it could have fired without the trigger being pulled. That is why the prosecutors dropped the case against Alec Baldwin but now have to investigate as to who and why the gun was modified.

So how exactly does a single action revolver fire? I know, apparently you don't.

_SOMETHING_ has to strike the primer.

They don't just go off at random.

Did he pull the hammer most of the way and let go? That would qualify as "not pulling the trigger".

Did he strike the hammer with his palm and push it into primer? Because while it's true guns could go off before the blocking mechanisms were added, this was due to something striking the hammer. I.E. the gun was dropped and the hammer hit the ground and pushed into the primer.

[Bwanajim]

Sorry, as someone who has been shooting guns for the last 50 years, including IPSC competition pistol, if the hammer is not pulled back, there’s no way that gun will fire. It’s a single action.
Regardless, I’ve been taught since the age of 10 you never point a gun at anything or handle it without checking to see if it’s empty or loaded.

[BostonRich]

I don't understand why he was charged in the first place. There was absolutely no intent involved on his part.

Never heard of manslaughter?

[Blackbird45]

If he pulled the trigger or not should not matter and I said in an earlier post, I would not be surprised if the cinematographer told him where to point the gun to get the visual, she wanted. Movie companies do not hire armorers because they want someone who knows about guns, if that was the case, they could hire a gangbanger to do the job for less. They hire a professional who understand safety protocol for insurance purposes. The production has to take 5% of the blame for either not hiring someone with a better resume or for overworking her. The armorer is the one that has to accept 95% of the blame.

1. No one should have any access to any firearm besides herself.
2. To allow any live ammunition anywhere near a set was irresponsible.
3. At one point she claimed she was overworked; at that point you hire an assistant, or you quit.

As far as actors, I don't know what true knowledge Mr. Baldwin has, but I've worked with some stars that didn't know their right from their left and were handed a gun on set.

Until you work on a movie set, you will not grasp that this is a place waiting for an accident to happen.

[Ksfirefighter]

Looks like it. And they may be investigating who and why the trigger was modified.

And Aliens could have come down in a UAP and pulled the trigger……. But logic says, “He pulled the trigger!”

[Taltarzac725]

And Aliens could have come down in a UAP and pulled the trigger……. But logic says, “He pulled the trigger!”

Aliens?

They will be doing more tests on the weapon involved in the death and injury.

Baldwin was cleared in the shooting or something like that despite having a lot going against him.

[New Englander]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger. If he had then they would not have dropped the case. These prosecutors were seeking a big win regardless of the facts.

The FBI examined the gun very carefully and said the trigger had to be pulled for that gun to fire.

[Taltarzac725]

The FBI examined the gun very carefully and said the trigger had to be pulled for that gun to fire.

That does not sound accurate. Baldwin would still be on the hook if it were true.

I do like Alec Baldwin's work but know very little about his character. I do know some Hollywood or other place stars are spoiled rotten brats with no real regard for other people.

My Dad worked insurance claims made by the rich-and-famous sometimes when we lived in Reno, NV; Scottsdale, AZ and Rohnert Park, CA. He did a lot of other stuff too.

[Dantes]

Anyone that knows anything about a fire arm knows you check to see if it’s loaded my opinion

[Geodyssey]

Well.
If I was in prison on the evidence of an FBI "Gun Expert" my lawyer would be filing my new appeal first thing Monday morning!

Alec Baldwin is a star with connections. Surprised there were any charges.

If he sues he will collect. It's the American way.

[Geodyssey]

Anyone that knows anything about a fire arm knows you check to see if it’s loaded my opinion

Checking is for the little people.

[Astoeckle]

Potential modifications to the firing mechanism of the gun prompted dismissal of charges against Baldwin, source tells CNN | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertainment/rust-gun-alec-baldwin-charges/index.html)

Just saw this. It deserves its own thread as Alec Baldwin has been pretty much tried and found guilty already by some. This hopefully will counteract that.

I think most could agree that Baldwin isn’t a very likable guy. Yet he gets his “day in court” as it should be. It’s a shame that certain political figures don’t get the same unbiased justice.

[Two Bills]

Checking is for the little people.

I thought that was taxes.

[Taltarzac725]

Alec Baldwin is a star with connections. Surprised there were any charges.

If he sues he will collect. It's the American way.

Those connections often mean nothing in a place like where the movie Rust was being filmed.

[Geodyssey]

Those connections often mean nothing in a place like where the movie Rust was being filmed.

Not seeing your point since Baldwin is now the victim, according to the "law" in this case.

[manaboutown]

Those connections often mean nothing in a place like where the movie Rust was being filmed.

"Rust" was being filmed in New Mexico which has courted the film, movie, entertainment industry since Bill Richardson was governor. The state provides a multitude of incentives to the industry, at great cost to its citizens. Many question if the industry is actually costing the state rather than paying off. The heavyweights in the industry including its so-called stars carry great influence.

Q&A: Bill Richardson – The Hollywood Reporter (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/qampa-bill-richardson-117927/)

"As the film industry expands in the Southwest, New Mexico leads the region as top destination thanks to competitive incentive and infrastructure programs."

Forging the Future of Filmmaking in New Mexico - Entertainment Partners (https://www.ep.com/blog/forging-the-future-of-filmmaking-in-new-mexico/)

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – Netflix is quickly working to expand its relatively new studio in Albuquerque.

“This is going to be their main production facility in North America,” said Alicia Keyes, New Mexico Economic Development cabinet secretary.

From: Netflix plans to expand studios in Albuquerque - KOB.com (https://www.kob.com/archive/netflix-plans-to-expand-studios-in-albuquerque/)

[justjim]

The FBI examined the gun very carefully and said the trigger had to be pulled for that gun to fire.

So somebody said. Did you or anybody see the actual FBI analysis report? Just saying..

[manaboutown]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger. If he had then they would not have dropped the case. These prosecutors were seeking a big win regardless of the facts.

It is a single action revolver. Its hammer can be fanned to fire it.

"The actor originally said he had pulled the hammer of the gun back as far as he could and released it but did not pull the trigger."

"Leading up to the decision to drop the charges, the prosecution has dealt with a number of issues. Originally, Baldwin had been hit with a firearms enhancement that carried a five-year minimum prison sentence. The charge was removed after Baldwin's legal team argued it was "unconstitutional." The enhancement had not been part of New Mexico law at the time the shooting took place.

Later, the original special prosecutor was removed, and District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies stepped down. Baldwin's lawyer argued Rep. Andrea Reeb could not simultaneously serve as the special prosecutor and as a member of the New Mexico House of Representatives."

Alec Baldwin'''s criminal charges for fatal '''Rust''' shooting to be dropped: lawyers | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-criminal-charges-fatal-rust-shooting-dropped-lawyers)

The original prosecutors were dismissed and replaced. My oh my I wonder why?

[jrzeis@tampabay.rr.com]

For that type of gun, you MUST pull the hammer back to cock the gun before it can be fired. The act of cocking a gun and pointing it at someone in my opinion is negligent to start with. It's one thing to point a weapon at someone (which is wrong in the first place), but it is a whole different level when you cock the gun first (preparing to fire it) and then point it at someone. This didn't happen during filming so why would you even do that in the first place? Everyone knows or should know that the first rule of gun safety is that you never point a gun at anything that don't wish to destroy (or some would say unless you intend to shoot it).

[Blackbird45]

Anyone that knows anything about a fire arm knows you check to see if it’s loaded my opinion

That sounds logical, but it's not. Many times, we have to rely on others to do their job. The armorer's job was to make sure the firearms were safe, secure, and bought to the set unloaded when needed. It's obvious none of these were met. I don't kick the tires before I get on a plane, smell the breath of my uber driver to make sure he was not drinking. Baldwin like many actors, are more worried if their hair, make-up, wardrobe is looking good and of course their lines which most of them blow over and over. I've seen many accidents on sets, none have resulted in death. Let's be honest if the actor was John Doe, it would barely have been a blip on the news. Look the industry pushes the envelope to satisfy the audience and have a time limit to get it in the can. That's the real problem here.

[JMintzer]

Can a Gun Discharge without Pulling the Trigger? (https://gunsafetytrainingpro.com/possibility-of-negligent-discharge-when-gun-trigger-isnt-pulled/)

Think he/she knows of what she/he writes.

"Jostling it"... Bwahahaha!

https://media.tenor.com/HTz-RXN1qogAAAAC/tacos-de.gif

[JMintzer]

as jack once said, " you ( we) can't handle the truth".

I can't handle the truth? Methinks you're responding to the wrong person...

[JMintzer]

Each and every person who touches the gun is responsible to check if a gun is loaded. For instance as soon as person A takes the gun from where it was sitting or being stored, Person A checks the gun, Now person A hands the gun to person B and just before the hand off, Person A rechecks the gun in view of person B, who takes the gun and checks it again. ETC right up to the very last person to get the gun, and while the gun is with the last person, any time this person might set the gun aside for a while, they need to check it again, and then when returning the gun back to it’s storage location, and again recheck the gun before giving it to the armorer, who again checks the gun before storing the gun. The long and short of it, it takes mere seconds to visually inspect a gun to ensure it is empty, and it should never be assumed to be empty until you visually inspect the gun yourself. As far as Mr. Baldwin is concerned, he was the last person receiving the gun, it is his responsibility to check the gun that ended up killing and injuring those two people. The fatal discharge falls firmly in Mr. Baldwin’s lap and nobody else’s.

Precisely!

[JMintzer]

And how does live ammunition get on any movie site,,,

Apparently, they were using the same weapons after hours for target practice...

Incredibly stupid...

[JMintzer]

I don't understand why he was charged in the first place. There was absolutely no intent involved on his part.

Negligent homicide is a thing... Does not require "intent"...

[JMintzer]

US prosecutors formally drop charges against Alec Baldwin | Courts News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/21/us-prosecutors-formally-drop-charges-against-alec-baldwin)

He did not pull the trigger. If he had then they would not have dropped the case. These prosecutors were seeking a big win regardless of the facts.

Nonsense. The article you posted said no such thing...

[JMintzer]

You do know that CNN reported the news, they didn't drop the charges. You'll be happy to know the case against him can be reopened.

Er... You might have missed my sarcasm a lil bit...

[JMintzer]

What a vicious comment.

Vicious?

https://media.tenor.com/sttF8xY21_QAAAAM/goodfellas-henry-hill.gif

[JMintzer]

I agree, but even if he had, there shouldn't have been live ammo in the gun. Actors point and pull triggers all day long on movie sets. The idea that Alec Baldwin would deliberately shoot that woman is ridiculous.

Name one person who suggested he did it deliberately... I'll wait...

[JMintzer]

You do realize it was a prop gun on a movie set, right? Apparently there is some question whether he pulled the trigger and reason to believe the mechanism had been modified.

Movie set - make believe - perhaps not a real gun - certainly should not have had real ammunition - supposedly the safety expert on the set had certified that the gun was safe. Somewhat similar to playing cowboys and indians or cops and robbers as a kid in your backyard.

No, there is no question as to whether he pulled the trigger.

It has just been opined that because the gun had been worked on since it left the factory (a very common occurrence), that it would be difficult to prove in a court of law...

And even though it was a movie set, they still use REAL GUNS. They just use "blanks", which require a functioning gun in order to fire...

Nothing like playing "cops and robbers"...

[JMintzer]

So how exactly does a single action revolver fire? I know, apparently you don't.

_SOMETHING_ has to strike the primer.

They don't just go off at random.

Did he pull the hammer most of the way and let go? That would qualify as "not pulling the trigger".

Did he strike the hammer with his palm and push it into primer? Because while it's true guns could go off before the blocking mechanisms were added, this was due to something striking the hammer. I.E. the gun was dropped and the hammer hit the ground and pushed into the primer.

Exactly. This "trigger was modified" nonsense is nothing but a red herring.

Guns are modified all the time. Parts wear out, so they are replaced.

And yes, with a single action revolver, it is possible for the gun to fire if you pull the hammer back "almost" all the way, before you set the trigger, and then let it go. It'll drop on the primer, firing the round.

That is "user error"...

[JMintzer]

Not sure but I don't recall CNN having to pay 787 million dollars for "fake news". Just saying. If they dropped the charges it pretty much means they can't prove their case as it stands. Law suits to follow.

Does the name "Nick Sandman" ring a bell?

[JMintzer]

The gun experts have said that it could have fired without the trigger being pulled. That is why the prosecutors dropped the case against Alec Baldwin but now have to investigate as to who and why the gun was modified.

No they didn't... I'll give you if the gun was dropped, there is a slight possibility. But there is NO EVIDENCE that that happened...

The "gun modification" angle is BS and since Baldwin was screwing around with the gun (he admitted to practicing has "cross draw"), he most likely pulled back the hammer part way and dropped the hammer on the primer...

Guns just don't "go off" unless something stupid is being done with them...

[JMintzer]

If he pulled the trigger or not should not matter and I said in an earlier post, I would not be surprised if the cinematographer told him where to point the gun to get the visual, she wanted.

Then prepare to be surprised... Baldwin admitted practicing "cross draw" while sitting there. They were not rehearsing a scene, nor filming...

Movie companies do not hire armorers because they want someone who knows about guns, if that was the case, they could hire a gangbanger to do the job for less. They hire a professional who understand safety protocol for insurance purposes. The production has to take 5% of the blame for either not hiring someone with a better resume or for overworking her. The armorer is the one that has to accept 95% of the blame.

1. No one should have any access to any firearm besides herself.
2. To allow any live ammunition anywhere near a set was irresponsible.
3. At one point she claimed she was overworked; at that point you hire an assistant, or you quit.

As far as actors, I don't know what true knowledge Mr. Baldwin has, but I've worked with some stars that didn't know their right from their left and were handed a gun on set.

Until you work on a movie set, you will not grasp that this is a place waiting for an accident to happen.

I'll accept all of that (even though some of it is speculation), but none of it really matters.

[JMintzer]

Aliens?

They will be doing more tests on the weapon involved in the death and injury.

Baldwin was cleared in the shooting or something like that despite having a lot going against him.

No, a judge said they would have a hard time proving their case.

Completely different from "being cleared"...

[JMintzer]

That does not sound accurate. Baldwin would still be on the hook if it were true.

Nope. Your latest excuse, "But the gun was modified" muddied the waters (even though it doesn't matter to anyone who knows anything about firearms). But it WILL matter to in ignorant jury...

[JMintzer]

Anyone that knows anything about a fire arm knows you check to see if it’s loaded my opinion

Oh shush with your logic and reason... :icon_wink:

[JMintzer]

I think most could agree that Baldwin isn’t a very likable guy. Yet he gets his “day in court” as it should be. It’s a shame that certain political figures don’t get the same unbiased justice.

Looks like he won't be getting his day in court...

[JMintzer]

Those connections often mean nothing in a place like where the movie Rust was being filmed.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Byte1]

The ONLY way the gun can fire is if the hammer strikes the firing pin or some old ones have the firing pin on the hammer. If the trigger has been modified, YES the gun can fire without pulling the trigger. BUT, only if the hammer is first pulled back. Single action revolvers ALWAYS have to have the hammer pulled back manually.
He may not "intended" to kill or shoot anyone, but he DID shoot and kill someone. That is manslaughter. He still took a life and must stand trial. The manslaughter was NOT justified, although it may be deemed accidental, such as someone accidentally running over a child when backing out of their driveway. I have seen no reports that he "intended" to end a life or even injure someone. Regardless, by ALL accounts he was negligent and there might be a charge of "negligent homicide" or "negligent manslaughter" depending on the local statute. The gun did not aim itself at the victim and certainly did not arm itself. The gun did not go off while laying on a table. It was handled by AB and it fired, regardless of intent.

[Worldseries27]

i can't handle the truth? Methinks you're responding to the wrong person...
nope not directed at you. Just a launch site posting.
Like the way you post. In my neighborhood we would of called you " machine gun "

[jimjamuser]

The gun experts have said that it could have fired without the trigger being pulled. That is why the prosecutors dropped the case against Alec Baldwin but now have to investigate as to who and why the gun was modified.
And WHO brought a live round onto the set.

[jimjamuser]

Sorry, as someone who has been shooting guns for the last 50 years, including IPSC competition pistol, if the hammer is not pulled back, there’s no way that gun will fire. It’s a single action.
Regardless, I’ve been taught since the age of 10 you never point a gun at anything or handle it without checking to see if it’s empty or loaded.
Police automatics are NOT single-action, but the Sig Sauer has been going off and shooting fellow Police Officers. Many incidents recently. So, if a modern expensive pistol can fire off unexpectedly (maybe from some bump) then an older single action with lesser metallurgy could fire off from a bump and possibly with the hammer down, but definitely with the hammer cocked.
.....But, most likely the actor had his finger on the trigger as he pulled back the hammer.

[PugMom]

I worked in the business for 35 years and during that time there were many sets that had firearms. I don't know if the trigger was pulled or not and even if that is the important issue. The full responsibility is on the person who in charge with handling these guns. On the sets I worked on the prop master, or his assistant would show up on the set just before they were ready to shoot, show the talent that the gun was empty and wait around until they were finished and collect it. The mere fact that any other than the armorer had access put the blame squarely on them. There was another question where the gun was aimed. I wasn't there but in most cases it's the director or the cinematographer who will direct the actor on everything to achieve the shot they're looking for. I was on a dark roof top one night where a crew member fell down a five-story building airshaft, we broke for lunch as the fire department got him out and when right back up to finish the shot under the same conditions. The bottom line even though someone died on this shoot, this whole thing was overblown since a star was involved. Movie sets can be dangerous places to work, long hours, fast pace, and young crews, what could possibly go wrong.

with all your experience, may i ask if you have ever worked with a modified weapon, & if so, what was the modification & why?

[PugMom]

And WHO brought a live round onto the set.

i think this would be the key argument. had there been NO live rounds, circumstances MAY have been different. yet on the other hand, i've heard blanks can hurt people as well. :shrug:

[Two Bills]

i think this would be the key argument. had there been NO live rounds, circumstances MAY have been different. yet on the other hand, i've heard blanks can hurt people as well. :shrug:

Can't remember if it was mentioned on TOTV or I read it somewhere, but didn't the crew/actors shoot at tin cans and other targets when filming was done for the day?
If they did, that was probably where the mixed ammo came about.

[PugMom]

talk about reckless! a recipe for disaster

[pedwards2932]

Does the name "Nick Sandman" ring a bell?

275 Million asked for but no account of what they settled for. Dan Rather was fired for his report on Bush......other than Lou Dobbs seems that Tucker and company are still working.......just saying

[JMintzer]

nope not directed at you. Just a launch site posting.
Like the way you post. In my neighborhood we would of called you " machine gun "

Yeah, but I always "pull the trigger" when I post... :pepper2:

[JMintzer]

Police automatics are NOT single-action, but the Sig Sauer has been going off and shooting fellow Police Officers. Many incidents recently. So, if a modern expensive pistol can fire off unexpectedly (maybe from some bump) then an older single action with lesser metallurgy could fire off from a bump and possibly with the hammer down, but definitely with the hammer cocked.
.....But, most likely the actor had his finger on the trigger as he pulled back the hammer.

The Sigs were primarily fired when dropped or when holstered, leading one to believe their cover garment or a worn leather holster got caught on the trigger.

It almost happened to me when I took my concealed carry class. I was having trouble re-holstering my weapon. The instructor noticed my shirt tail was getting jammed into the holster when I tried to re-holster the gun. He taught me to maek sure I swept by shirt back to clear the opening of the holster.

There have also been cases when an old, worn holster folded over at the opening, catching the trigger as the gun was inserted...

Neither had anything to do with the Baldwin case, unless he was re-holstering the gun with the trigger cocked back... A major no-no...

And there is no such thing as a "Police automatic"...

[JMintzer]

i think this would be the key argument. had there been NO live rounds, circumstances MAY have been different. yet on the other hand, i've heard blanks can hurt people as well. :shrug:

Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum were killed when using blanks...

[JMintzer]

Can't remember if it was mentioned on TOTV or I read it somewhere, but didn't the crew/actors shoot at tin cans and other targets when filming was done for the day?
If they did, that was probably where the mixed ammo came about.

Correct. I read the same thing...

[JMintzer]

275 Million asked for but no account of what they settled for. Dan Rather was fired for his report on Bush......other than Lou Dobbs seems that Tucker and company are still working.......just saying

FOX News hasn't paid a dime yet... Just saying...

[JMintzer]

with all your experience, may i ask if you have ever worked with a modified weapon, & if so, what was the modification & why?

People modify weapons all the time.

For instance, the carry guns carried by the NYPD have a 12 lb trigger pull (it takes 12 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger). The manufacturer recommends a 5 lb pull.

A heavier pull makes the gun much less accurate. It may be one reasin why NYPD officers have shuch a low rate of hitting their target...

I've added ambidextrous slide releases and magazine releases to my guns (I'm a lefty), I've had trigger work done to improve the feel of the trigger.

I've changed out the stocks on rifles to fit my body better.

Nothing odd about it...

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

Negligent homicide is a thing... Does not require "intent"...

Considering it was someone else's responsibility to do this, and considering that live ammunition was not supposed to be on the site and that it was someone else's responsibility to ensure this, and considering it is not common practice to hand someone a loaded gun with live ammunition on a movie site, I don't see how in any way, shape, or form you can find Baldwin responsible, unless you have no idea of ethical behavior. This is a unique and extraordinary situation that may have never happened before, and certainly not actually shooting someone.

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

Considering it was someone else's responsibility to do this, and considering that live ammunition was not supposed to be on the site and that it was someone else's responsibility to ensure this, and considering it is not common practice to hand someone a loaded gun with live ammunition on a movie site, I don't see how in any way, shape, or form you can find Baldwin responsible, unless you have no idea of ethical behavior. This is a unique and extraordinary situation that may have never happened before, and certainly not actually shooting someone.

And negligent homicide itself only happens when there is violence like a fist fight with no intent to kill someone but the violence ends up killing someone not an accident like this. Why are people so intent on incriminating an innocent person because he's a celebrity they don't like?

[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

I was confused, but the reason FOX agreed to pay was because not only did they realize they were going to lose but that it would expose their lying and deceitful behavior to the public who would lose faith in their news reporting.

This seems to be in the wrong thread, however.

[JMintzer]

Considering it was someone else's responsibility to do this, and considering that live ammunition was not supposed to be on the site and that it was someone else's responsibility to ensure this, and considering it is not common practice to hand someone a loaded gun with live ammunition on a movie site, I don't see how in any way, shape, or form you can find Baldwin responsible, unless you have no idea of ethical behavior. This is a unique and extraordinary situation that may have never happened before, and certainly not actually shooting someone.

Ethical behavior is checking to make sure your firearm is SAFE before pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger...

As I said before, if the scene required him to play "Russian Roulette", do you think he would "just take someone's word" that the gun was safe, or would he check for himself?

[JMintzer]

And negligent homicide itself only happens when there is violence like a fist fight with no intent to kill someone but the violence ends up killing someone not an accident like this. Why are people so intent on incriminating an innocent person because he's a celebrity they don't like?

First of all, you couldn't be more wrong about what constitutes "negligent homicide"... I suggest you Google the definition...

Second of all, I don't give a rat's patootie about Alec Baldwin...

Third of all, YOU saying he's innocent means nothing...

[JMintzer]

I was confused, but the reason FOX agreed to pay was because not only did they realize they were going to lose but that it would expose their lying and deceitful behavior to the public who would lose faith in their news reporting.

This seems to be in the wrong thread, however.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Ever hear the phrase, "Cheaper to keep her"?

Sometimes it's actually cheaper to settle than go thru a trial... Happens all the time...

[Worldseries27]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Ever hear the phrase, "cheaper to keep her"?

Sometimes it's actually cheaper to settle than go thru a trial... Happens all the time...
cheap was not the desired outcome. Fox could have appealed up to sc. Brand protection was the goal as it should be

[mickey100]

I was confused, but the reason FOX agreed to pay was because not only did they realize they were going to lose but that it would expose their lying and deceitful behavior to the public who would lose faith in their news reporting.

This seems to be in the wrong thread, however.

Agreed. :bigbow:

[mickey100]

First of all, you couldn't be more wrong about what constitutes "negligent homicide"... I suggest you Google the definition...

Second of all, I don't give a rat's patootie about Alec Baldwin...

Third of all, YOU saying he's innocent means nothing...

Agree on all counts. Amazing the know-it-alls on TOTV who know everything about everything!

[Kelevision]

They are just reporting the same story as everyone else...

I realize that you do want Baldwin to be innocent... But that doesn't male it so...

OJ was found to be "not guilty", but we all know how that went down...

As a director myself, I’ve directed many episodes of television and was a script supervisor for 30 years before that. I’m not retired and still direct. I just directed the Flash and have directed show such as Blue Bloods, Vampire Diaries and worked on Dexter, Entourage, The OC, and many other shows. There’s a very strict protocol when it comes to guns on set. The Armorer or prop master is in charge of all guns. The guns should never be in public and the only person who can get them is Armorer or prop person. Then the 1st Assistant Director must look into every chamber as the armorer turns it to show there’s nothing inside. At that point, the 1st AD calls out ‘cold gun’ at which point, he hands it over to the actor. There was a movie called The Crow, where an actor shot Brandon Lee (Bruce Lees son) with a blank, and killed him. That’s when the safety protocol went in place. That armorer was fired off a movie with Nick Cage months earlier for guns going off accidentally on set. I don’t like or dislike Alec Baldwin but there’s just now way he’s to blame when there are clear union jobs and armorer and 1st AD are the ones in charge of gun safety. As for the producer title. It’s a title. Almost every actor gets a producing title these days. As do all the writers. The only real producers are the Line Producer and the show runner.

[JMintzer]

As a director myself, I’ve directed many episodes of television and was a script supervisor for 30 years before that. I’m not retired and still direct. I just directed the Flash and have directed show such as Blue Bloods, Vampire Diaries and worked on Dexter, Entourage, The OC, and many other shows. There’s a very strict protocol when it comes to guns on set. The Armorer or prop master is in charge of all guns. The guns should never be in public and the only person who can get them is Armorer or prop person. Then the 1st Assistant Director must look into every chamber as the armorer turns it to show there’s nothing inside. At that point, the 1st AD calls out ‘cold gun’ at which point, he hands it over to the actor. There was a movie called The Crow, where an actor shot Brandon Lee (Bruce Lees son) with a blank, and killed him. That’s when the safety protocol went in place. That armorer was fired off a movie with Nick Cage months earlier for guns going off accidentally on set. I don’t like or dislike Alec Baldwin but there’s just now way he’s to blame when there are clear union jobs and armorer and 1st AD are the ones in charge of gun safety. As for the producer title. It’s a title. Almost every actor gets a producing title these days. As do all the writers. The only real producers are the Line Producer and the show runner.

Agree on almost all counts...

They weren't filming and Baldwin was screwing around with the gun...

[Kelevision]

Agree on almost all counts...

They weren't filming and Baldwin was screwing around with the gun...

What makes that even more interesting is, I’ve never in my life been on a show where they’ve used an actual gun for rehearsal. That gun is supposed to be rubber and it’s a big deal when a real gun is on set. They call a safety meeting before the gun leaves the hand of the armorer. Or at least that’s what’s supposed to happen. BUT the bigger question is how did live ammo get on the set and inside that gun??? I choose my blank loads on every job I have with a gun. 1/4 loads up to full loads. I’m shocked at how many balls were dropped. Including on Alecs part and the director. But only on Alecs part as an Actor, not a producer. Maybe this will make Actors stop asking for producer credits. It’s just a lame title that means nothing in the end. On Vampire Diaries 2 actors had producer credits but neither one were actual “producers” if that make sense. I was a producer on Vampire Diaries too but again, mine was a nothing title just to keep me around for the later seasons. As an actor though, he should’ve known better but he’s certainly not to blame. It’s the armorer and 1st AD but also the line producer, who didn’t listen to concerns and I believe they had guns go off accidentally earlier on that set. The camera crew walked off the day before due to safety issues. That line producer should’ve shut things down or done something earlier. Too many people dropping balls. I mean sadly, the DP should’ve said something about the gun situation too. They have lot of say on a set. They’re the most respected person besides the director. The whole thing is a sad situation for everyone. I don’t know if you’re familiar with he Sarah Jones death but that was also sad and the director got put in prison for it. As he should have. The Line Producer and 1st AD also got charged
”Midnight Rider” filmmakers charged with involuntary manslaughter in Sarah Jones death – Boston Herald (https://www.bostonherald.com/2014/07/03/midnight-rider-filmmakers-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter-in-sarah-jones-death/)

[JRcorvette]

If it were you or I we would be in prison already. I have been following the Legal Opinion issues in this case and they all agree it was second degree manslaughter (non-intentional). That is a crime.

[Kelevision]

If it were you or I we would be in prison already. I have been following the Legal Opinion issues in this case and they all agree it was second degree manslaughter (non-intentional). That is a crime.

Yet Michale Massee walks a free man to this day after shooting and killing actor Brandon Lee on a film set with a prop gun. Perhaps, they looked at the filming rules and safety protocols, who’s responsible for guns on set and realized they didn’t have a case?

[JMintzer]

Yet Michale Massee walks a free man to this day after shooting and killing actor Brandon Lee on a film set with a prop gun. Perhaps, they looked at the filming rules and safety protocols, who’s responsible for guns on set and realized they didn’t have a case?

That prop gun had the correct blank cartridge in the chamber. Unfortunately, there was a fragment of a fake "real looking" cartridge left in the chamber from a previous shot, where they needed to "see' the bullet...

That was what was propelled out of the barrel, killing Lee...

Even if the shooter had checked the chamber, he would have seen the proper "blank" round.

[JMintzer]

What makes that even more interesting is, I’ve never in my life been on a show where they’ve used an actual gun for rehearsal. That gun is supposed to be rubber and it’s a big deal when a real gun is on set. They call a safety meeting before the gun leaves the hand of the armorer. Or at least that’s what’s supposed to happen. BUT the bigger question is how did live ammo get on the set and inside that gun??? I choose my blank loads on every job I have with a gun. 1/4 loads up to full loads. I’m shocked at how many balls were dropped. Including on Alecs part and the director. But only on Alecs part as an Actor, not a producer. Maybe this will make Actors stop asking for producer credits. It’s just a lame title that means nothing in the end. On Vampire Diaries 2 actors had producer credits but neither one were actual “producers” if that make sense. I was a producer on Vampire Diaries too but again, mine was a nothing title just to keep me around for the later seasons. As an actor though, he should’ve known better but he’s certainly not to blame. It’s the armorer and 1st AD but also the line producer, who didn’t listen to concerns and I believe they had guns go off accidentally earlier on that set. The camera crew walked off the day before due to safety issues. That line producer should’ve shut things down or done something earlier. Too many people dropping balls. I mean sadly, the DP should’ve said something about the gun situation too. They have lot of say on a set. They’re the most respected person besides the director. The whole thing is a sad situation for everyone. I don’t know if you’re familiar with he Sarah Jones death but that was also sad and the director got put in prison for it. As he should have. The Line Producer and 1st AD also got charged
”Midnight Rider” filmmakers charged with involuntary manslaughter in Sarah Jones death – Boston Herald (https://www.bostonherald.com/2014/07/03/midnight-rider-filmmakers-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter-in-sarah-jones-death/)

From what I've read, they weren't in actual "rehearsal".

Yes, they were on set, but they were not rehearsing. Baldwin was sitting on set, "practicing" his cross draw. They were NOT rehearsing a scene...