Can’t Afford The Villages

[DiviAruba]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

[Bilyclub]

If the prices of the houses in TV doesn't scare you, insurance has gone up between $300 to $1000 more a year, according to posts. Some people have had to put on a new roof, which ups the ante considerably.

[LuvtheVillages]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

Yes, home insurance rates have gone up (a lot) EVERYWHERE in Florida. Why?
1. recent hurricanes caused lots of damage, which we all pay for in our premiums
2. roof scams. we all are paying for those "free" roofs
3. inflation

Car insurance rates are based on where the car is garaged. The Villages is a bit expensive because we have a lot of careless drivers. Rates also increase as you age. Each milestone birthday means a bump in car insurance.

[villagetinker]

OP, a lot depends on the age of the house, ours is a 2013 vintage concrete block with wind mitigation on the roof, the result was a mild increase of around $300. Car insurance also depends on your selected coverage, especially deductibles, I tend to have $1000 or higher deductibles, I just got the bill, 2 cars (2012 and 2021 vintage) and it is around $1700, I have some questions and will be discussing with agent shortly.
The age of the roof on your house will have a big impact on your insurance rate, if it is approaching 15 years, you better plan on a new roof in your future (at your cost).
Hope this helps, make sure you account for all of the other expenses. Search this site, as there is another thread on the typical living expenses.

[wisbad1]

OP, a lot depends on the age of the house, ours is a 2013 vintage concrete block with wind mitigation on the roof, the result was a mild increase of around $300. Car insurance also depends on your selected coverage, especially deductibles, I tend to have $1000 or higher deductibles, I just got the bill, 2 cars (2012 and 2021 vintage) and it is around $1700, I have some questions and will be discussing with agent shortly.
The age of the roof on your house will have a big impact on your insurance rate, if it is approaching 15 years, you better plan on a new roof in your future (at your cost).
Hope this helps, make sure you account for all of the other expenses. Search this site, as there is another thread on the typical living expenses.
What is wind mitigation?

[CFrance]

OP, a lot depends on the age of the house, ours is a 2013 vintage concrete block with wind mitigation on the roof, the result was a mild increase of around $300. Car insurance also depends on your selected coverage, especially deductibles, I tend to have $1000 or higher deductibles, I just got the bill, 2 cars (2012 and 2021 vintage) and it is around $1700, I have some questions and will be discussing with agent shortly.
The age of the roof on your house will have a big impact on your insurance rate, if it is approaching 15 years, you better plan on a new roof in your future (at your cost).
Hope this helps, make sure you account for all of the other expenses. Search this site, as there is another thread on the typical living expenses.


VT, is that $1700 for six months or a year? We were paying $146/month for two cars (2011 and 2005) with Farmers. In 2020 we sold both and bought a used 2018 Ford Explorer with all the bells & whistles, and insurance for that car alone jumped to $182/month. We said goodbye to Farmers and now have something through Allstate for low mileage use. Hard to say how much we've saved because we left shortly after switching, and the car is now in storage. But it definitely was not going to be $182/month.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV? in what place in Massachusetts did you find car insurance cheaper than living in villages ? A Boston guy would like to know, compared to rates my friends pay up there it feels here like I’m getting it for free ( thank you State Farm )

[villagetinker]

VT, is that $1700 for six months or a year? We were paying $146/month for two cars (2011 and 2005) with Farmers. In 2020 we sold both and bought a used 2018 Ford Explorer with all the bells & whistles, and insurance for that car alone jumped to $182/month. We said goodbye to Farmers and now have something through Allstate for low mileage use. Hard to say how much we've saved because we left shortly after switching, and the car is now in storage. But it definitely was not going to be $182/month.

Per year

[jebartle]

We have Hartford car insurance $700 year with AARP membership, also with limited usage, we use golf cart bunches, $100/yr Safeco

[justjim]

I have not discussed with my Agent because auto and home insurance will not be due until fall. I know it’s a fact auto insurance does go up with age. No public transit in The Villages but you do have golf carts for transportation to everywhere in The Villages and cart insurance is currently must cheaper than car insurance. Home insurance is an issue everywhere in Florida (especially on the coast). The State held a special session but little was accomplished regarding the higher rates for home insurance. Seniors on a fixed income may just have to “tighten their belts” because no relief regarding insurance rates seems to be in sight.

[Debfrommaine]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

Best to call various insurance companies and get rates. We pretty much do this every yr or two. AAA in the Trailwinds Plaza served us well this year. Next year could be different. We just play the game.

[kkingston57]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

Personally our rates have not gone up YET. Centra Florida will always(or should) be lower than areas on the coast. Do beleive that rates in you area will skyrocket up in price and people in Central Florida will go up but not as much.

[rjm1cc]

If you are a resident of Fl and your car is garaged here it would not surprise me that the insurance company would not pay your claim. Your car would also have to be registered in MA.

[DiviAruba]

That is my concern, the insurance and taxes.

[DiviAruba]

in what place in Massachusetts did you find car insurance cheaper than living in villages ? A Boston guy would like to know, compared to rates my friends pay up there it feels here like I’m getting it for free ( thank you State Farm )

Traveler's with a $500 deductible.

[DiviAruba]

If you are a resident of Fl and your car is garaged here it would not surprise me that the insurance company would not pay your claim. Your car would also have to be registered in MA.

I do not understand. I am a FL resident, and my car stays here. Why would my homeowners not pay becauswe of my car? You can not have a car registered in two different states.
I have one house and one car insured in both FL and one in MA.
Can you explain?

[MX rider]

Our home is a 2 and 2 1200 sq ft ranch in Amelia. It was built in 2009 and has the original roof.
Homeowners insurance went up from $1250 to $1500 when we renewed 2 months ago. Not bad.

We live in Indiana and are going to be snowbirds in Oct when we'll both be retired. We'll stay Indiana residents until we sell our home here in a few years.
Car insurance is much cheaper here.

[Djean1981]

Costs comparisons include a lot of factors. Massachusetts has a state income tax and high property taxes. Some things are cheaper and some things are not... Our car insurance went down $500 when we moved to Florida. Basically, shop around for all insurances to ensure you are getting the lowest possible rates.

[EdFNJ]

Another reason home insurance is going up is because home values have gone nuts. More expensive home, costlier to replace, higher insurance. We bought our (2/2) home 6 years ago and a few month ago the IDENTICAL HOME with less improvments than ours had next door to us sold for just over 2X what we paid. Not looking forward to July H.O. insurance renewal though. Always has been under $900 with maxed out coverage. July should be interesting. Auto hasn't been too bad though. 2020 Kia also with full coverage under $900 from The Hartford. Our taxes is NJ were just about $10K and here well under 2K so that covers some of the other stuff.

[EdFNJ]

Our home is a 2 and 2 1200 sq ft ranch in Amelia. It was built in 2009 and has the original roof.
Homeowners insurance went up from $1250 to $1500 when we renewed 2 months ago. Not bad.

We live in Indiana and are going to be snowbirds in Oct when we'll both be retired. We'll stay Indiana residents until we sell our home here in a few years.
Car insurance is much cheaper here. Interesting. Also in a 2/2 in Amelia from 2009 and we are (have been) paying ~$900 from Travelers thru Villages Insurance with full (max) coverages including 10% ded sinkhole. Next renewal is in July of this year. We'lll see where it goes from there. Last July it went up by under $100. Previous (original) owners had new roof put on around 2014 under original home purchase warranty due to a recall of some sort. MANY homes here roofs were replaced in ~2014 for that recall. Maybe that made a difference.???

[blueash]

I do not understand. I am a FL resident, and my car stays here. Why would my homeowners not pay becauswe of my car? You can not have a car registered in two different states.
I have one house and one car insured in both FL and one in MA.
Can you explain?

If you have a car that "lives" in Florida, it must be registered and insured in Florida. It does not matter if you also have property in Massachusetts. This issue is not whether your homeowner's would pay, rather whether your auto insurance will deny coverage if you falsified the main location of your car.

Check with your insurance agent as YMMV

[mkjelenbaas]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?
No - but thanks for giving me all this information about your situation??

[Rwirish]

Home and car insurance have exploded in TV like the rest of Florida.

[villageuser]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

The problem with insurance is also that now insurance companies are limiting the number of insurance policies they will allow in an area. i was thinking I would have to change insurance companies and in checking with various companies, two of the 3 I checked told me they had already met their quota at this time, and just to keep checking back each month! The third was ridiculously expensive. Thankfully my current insurance company and I reached an agreement and I didnt’ have to change policies.

I do think insurance, however, would be cheaper here, both for car and home, than in North Fort Myers. Also, getting a home that has a newer roof, and a good 4-point inspection along with a wind mitigation report, should get you a good price.

[MandoMan]

What is wind mitigation?

1. Steel straps at each roof truss end, properly nailed, that attach trusses to top plates and studs much more securely than a couple nails. They really do help prevent roofs from being pulled off by a hurricane. They are easy to install during construction, though it costs at least $200 in materials and several hours of hard labor. Much harder to install them when insulation is in place, and may not be done adequately.

2. Correctly installed plywood or USB sheathing on top of the roof trusses and under shingles. This means that most of the sheathing nails installed with pneumatic nailers actually penetrated the trusses and that the number of nails per 4x8’ sheet is according to code. Back when Hurricane Andrew hit the Miami area, doing colossal damage, studies showed that much of the damage was due to roofs being pulled off because the trusses were just toenailed to the top plates and because many sheets of plywood roofing were secured with 4-8 nails that actually penetrated the trusses (instead of the now required every 12” in the middle of the sheet and every 6” along the edges. Properly secured roofs tended to survive.

3. Higher quality shingles (sometimes called architectural shingles) instead of cheap ones, which are easily blown off in high winds. Good ones are thicker and stick to each other better. They also cost quite a bit more, though installation cost is the same, more or less.

A wind mitigation inspection costs about $100, takes only a few minutes, and includes photos. If your house passes, it can save you $500 a year on your insurance. Money well spent. Ideally, don’t buy a house that doesn’t pass. Fixing it after the fact is expensive.

[Pugchief]

Home and car insurance went up a lot in IL on the last renewal also. Their explanation was high claims experience over the previous several periods. So it is not specific to FL.

Shop around, as premiums vary wildly. I got HO quotes for TV that were different by over $700/year for basically the same coverage.

[MandoMan]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

I’d be surprised if car insurance in The Villages isn’t cheaper than in Massachusetts. We are old, so there are plenty of fender benders and scratches, but car theft is rare. House insurance has gone up, but it’s not cheap in Massachusetts, either, especially if you factor in that people there tend to have larger and more expensive homes. Real estate/school taxes here are much less than in some states and more than in others. I have friends in New Jersey who pay four times as much per square foot for taxes as I pay.

Housing in The Villages is more expensive per square foot than houses outside The Villages within an hour’s drive that aren’t in retirement communities. However, while there are many parts of the country where decent housing is much cheaper (half or less), there are many places where a home of similar age and build quality (though perhaps larger) is much more expensive. Move here from metropolitan Boston, Chicago, Denver, New Jersey, New York, Philadelphia, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, and you may find the housing delightfully affordable. My dad and sisters live in Denver. A house there similar to what I have here would cost at least twice as much.

Of course, the larger the house you buy here, the more it costs, including taxes and insurance. A great many of us downsize by 50% when we move here.

[Eebnhab]

[QUOTE=DiviAruba;2211794]I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?[/QUOTE

Are you planning to keep the place in Ft Meyers too? Otherwise your insurance should be lower in TV than FM since hurricane risk is lower in Central Florida.

[spktrue14]

Call the Villages insurance and speak to someone before making your decision. Find out for yourself before believing everyone else’s opinion.

[Rainger99]

1. Steel straps at each roof truss end, properly nailed, that attach trusses to top plates and studs much more securely than a couple nails. They really do help prevent roofs from being pulled off by a hurricane. They are easy to install during construction, though it costs at least $200 in materials and several hours of hard labor. Much harder to install them when insulation is in place, and may not be done adequately.

A wind mitigation inspection costs about $100, takes only a few minutes, and includes photos. If your house passes, it can save you $500 a year on your insurance. Money well spent. Ideally, don’t buy a house that doesn’t pass. Fixing it after the fact is expensive.

Does the Villages build new homes with wind mitigation?

[rsmurano]

Hartford for car insurance and umbrella. Cost depends on age and make of cars, age, driving record, and # of miles you drive each year. USAA was a close 2nd. AAA was a close 3rd. Last August, my home insurance didn’t go up for a year old home.

[Gpsma]

If you have a car that "lives" in Florida, it must be registered and insured in Florida. It does not matter if you also have property in Massachusetts. This issue is not whether your homeowner's would pay, rather whether your auto insurance will deny coverage if you falsified the main location of your car.

Check with your insurance agent as YMMV

My brother in law works for auto insurers. He told me that once an insurer accepts you and collects the premium they are obligated to pay a claim even if you lied on your policy application. Once they find out you lied they can try to collect the higher premium or just drop you.

[Joe C.]

Does the Villages build new homes with wind mitigation?

Yes. They were doing it prior to the state making it part of the building code.

[Yellowrose]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?
Please compare the cost to live here by which county you chose to live in. The Villages covers 3 counties. Each will be different in the cost for; house insurance, car ins., cost of the house, taxes, bond on the house & utilities. Sumter County has the lowest prices for all the above. Lake Co & Marian County are higher. Know which county before you purchase & compare prices in each county.

[GaryKoca]

Villagetinker is right. Ours went up $600 and it is a 2015 house with no issues. The Florida hurricanes, roof scams, and general inflation are the causes. And these are statewide premiums, so the fact that the Villages have not directly been effected by the hurricanes is not really the issue.

[Malsua]

1. Steel straps at each roof truss end, properly nailed, that attach trusses to top plates and studs much more securely than a couple nails. They really do help prevent roofs from being pulled off by a hurricane. They are easy to install during construction, though it costs at least $200 in materials and several hours of hard labor. Much harder to install them when insulation is in place, and may not be done adequately.

2. Correctly installed plywood or USB sheathing on top of the roof trusses and under shingles. This means that most of the sheathing nails installed with pneumatic nailers actually penetrated the trusses and that the number of nails per 4x8’ sheet is according to code. Back when Hurricane Andrew hit the Miami area, doing colossal damage, studies showed that much of the damage was due to roofs being pulled off because the trusses were just toenailed to the top plates and because many sheets of plywood roofing were secured with 4-8 nails that actually penetrated the trusses (instead of the now required every 12” in the middle of the sheet and every 6” along the edges. Properly secured roofs tended to survive.

3. Higher quality shingles (sometimes called architectural shingles) instead of cheap ones, which are easily blown off in high winds. Good ones are thicker and stick to each other better. They also cost quite a bit more, though installation cost is the same, more or less.

A wind mitigation inspection costs about $100, takes only a few minutes, and includes photos. If your house passes, it can save you $500 a year on your insurance. Money well spent. Ideally, don’t buy a house that doesn’t pass. Fixing it after the fact is expensive.

I perform wind mitigation inspections. I am licensed, insured and certified to do so and run an inspection business here in TV.

You've got it mostly correct, there are a few more things.

The type of connection: toe-nails, clips, single straps, double straps
The type of nails for the deck to truss connection. 6d or 8d. There is also a new standard for a thicker ring shank nail, but it's not entirely clear if insurance companies are factoring that in or not.

There is also impact protection. Most of the newer homes that I perform win mits on have additional hurricane bracing on the garage doors. I would say this started in TV around 1998 or so. The oldest homes don't have it. There should be a pressure rating sticker or ASTM rating somewhere on the door.

You can also have impact rated glass and entry doors. I have yet to find any of that here in TV, but I have seen it near the coasts although I have not done any Wind Mits out that way on either side of FL. Further, you can have hurricane rated shutters of various types, again, I've not found that here in TV.

Most homes built after 2004(2002 in some jurisdictions) already have a wind mitigation discount built into the insurance as that is when the Florida Building standards changed. That said, not every insurance provider will provide the discount without the inspection, so be sure to ask your agent. If it is not included, get a wind mit done, it's worth it.

It takes a little more than a few minutes but usually under an hour and it requires some time in the attic but well worth it for the discount.

[golfing eagles]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

Please don't take this reply as too harsh or critical:

If the make-or-break factor in contemplating the affordability of moving to TV is the difference in homeowner's and car insurance (if any), then you can't afford to move here.

[MX rider]

Interesting. Also in a 2/2 in Amelia from 2009 and we are (have been) paying ~$900 from Travelers thru Villages Insurance with full (max) coverages including 10% ded sinkhole. Next renewal is in July of this year. We'lll see where it goes from there. Last July it went up by under $100. Previous (original) owners had new roof put on around 2014 under original home purchase warranty due to a recall of some sort. MANY homes here roofs were replaced in ~2014 for that recall. Maybe that made a difference.???

Yes, I'm sure having the original roof is costing us a bit more than you. Even though they came out and inspected ours prior to writing our policy.
Plus we have all our other insurance here in Indiana. They said if we bundled our insurance with them our rate would drop.

[dhdallas]

If you are thinking that maybe you can't afford TV, then you can't! It's like the saying about alcohol. If you ever wonder whether you are an alcoholic then you are. Fees and utilities will always be increasing so if you can barely afford it now, you won't be able to afford TV in a year or two.

[Remembergoldenrule]

Sounds like you need to consider a house that is reasonable and comfortable. A patio villa is what we decided on and we live here full time. Cost of house upkeep it a lot less and we have more time for fun. We just got tired of the two house situation. We were spending too much traveling back and forth and worrying about other place when here. Plus cost of keeping up two places. We have considerable more money to enjoy with one house especially since we for patio villa.

Colony has big master bedroom and guest room has enough room for queen bed and crib or cot for grand child we also have pullout sofa for grand kids. Dining room big enough for tabl with six chairs and nook has for more chairs. Living area big enough for seating six to eight. You get the idea. Place for car and golf cart. Here is link to one like ours. Cost of upkeep is a lot less too.

1458 Olympia St, The Villages, FL 32163 | MLS #G5067386 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1458-Olympia-St-The-Villages-FL-32163/117520810_zpid/)

Next, you need to think of all your costs.
You have a place in MA. How much are you spending on this place? Taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, etc. Doyou have a car there too with all the upkeep costs for it? What do you do there for social and fun?

If you become a Florida resident, you will have no taxes on your income, your property taxes will be lower with a cap on any increase each year. If you live here full time then you could use the money from the sale of MA place to pay cash and probably have money left over to live on.

We have 56+ golf courses, 180 clubs, pickle ball, putt put, Numerous pools, biking, and more to keep you busy and meet friends. There are also a lot of volunteer opportunities. Grandpa camps for kids to have things to do when visit.

Take quality of live in consideration along with finances.

Good luck.

[hrenner]

What you save on taxes will pay for insurance.

[midiwiz]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

Ft Myers isn't the entire state of FL. Also unlike these others my home owners insurance hasn't budged at all. it's only 1400 a yr. it really depends on who you use. as a rule I don't buy anything that the villages is associated with, nor bank either. To compare to a place that just got wiped by a hurricane is insane at best. you also don't want you car registered in MA it's less expensive down here. Where your car is tagged changes a lot of things.

[Peachbelle]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?
Best way to check and see who is writing Homeowners insurance in FL is to go to the FL Dept. Of insurance website:
CHOICES: Homeowners Rate Comparison Tool (https://choices.fldfs.com/pandc/homeowners?_ga=2.54817449.345370008.1624854079-1506397112.1613684640)
Also realize some of the carriers listed (i.e.) Liberty Mutual are not writing new business in FL. Best rates will be if you can get a group rate by belonging to something (i.e. AAA, credit union, associationmembership, college alunmi, union, etc.)
We are moving to TV and just purchased one using above means. We thought the rates were very good. Ours is about $2500/yr.

[rjorem]

in what place in Massachusetts did you find car insurance cheaper than living in villages ? A Boston guy would like to know, compared to rates my friends pay up there it feels here like I’m getting it for free ( thank you State Farm )

In Massachusetts, I switched from being with State Farm for 20 years to Hartford insurance. It was either through AAA or Aarp. I saved quite a few hundred dollars doing that. I spoke with State Farm to see what they could do, and they said Hartford was a good deal. Good luck. I am a Massachusetts resident.

[Ski Bum]

What is wind mitigation?

Specialized hardware and fasteners (nails) used in a prescribed way to help hold the roof on in high winds. I think every home is built that way now.

[Laker14]

Please don't take this reply as too harsh or critical:

If the make-or-break factor in contemplating the affordability of moving to TV is the difference in homeowner's and car insurance (if any), then you can't afford to move here.

I had composed a response very similar to this, but I must have hit the wrong button because I don't see it.
Unfortunately, there are certain mandatory expenses that you will have no control over. Among these are taxes, insurance, maintenance assessments and amenity fees. While you can cut back on luxuries like travel, dining out, championship golf etc. those mandatory expenses are out of your control, and I've probably left a few out.

Not only must you pay them, you will have no control over how quickly and how drastically they increase. And they will increase.

You will have a much more pleasant retirement if you are not living too close to the edge of what you can afford. Do the math, and leave yourself some leeway. How much leeway you leave is a personal choice.

If TV works out for you, great. If not, there are other places where you can be happy.

Best of luck.

[Villagesgal]

If you think you can't afford it here, you can't.
Simple as that. Maybe look at a manufactured home in the historic side, you still have use of all amenities in the Villages. If you don't like that idea, find a wealthy widow here, problem solved.

[Chamo]

What makes car insurance so costly here in Florida is the underinsured motorist policy. If you keep that as low as possible your insurance will be extremely lower

[jimjamuser]

Yes, home insurance rates have gone up (a lot) EVERYWHERE in Florida. Why?
1. recent hurricanes caused lots of damage, which we all pay for in our premiums
2. roof scams. we all are paying for those "free" roofs
3. inflation

Car insurance rates are based on where the car is garaged. The Villages is a bit expensive because we have a lot of careless drivers. Rates also increase as you age. Each milestone birthday means a bump in car insurance.
After the Pandemic, I seem to notice that drivers in TV Land seemed to speed more and be more reckless like going through stop signs and other bad driving habits. Also, that may be due to a smaller Police presence (for some reason unknown to me).

[golfing eagles]

After the Pandemic, I seem to notice that drivers in TV Land seemed to speed more and be more reckless like going through stop signs and other bad driving habits. Also, that may be due to a smaller Police presence (for some reason unknown to me).

But were they driving cars with "infernal combustion engines"???? Didn't work it in????You're slipping :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[daveczo]

in what place in Massachusetts did you find car insurance cheaper than living in villages ? A Boston guy would like to know, compared to rates my friends pay up there it feels here like I’m getting it for free ( thank you State Farm )

I agree, rates in the Northeast are sky high in comparison.

[Eagle06]

Shop around and ensure you compare "Apples to Apples". Levels of coverage and costs vary widely. We have a 2020 Mercedes E450 AWD Cabriolet and a BMW X5 i40 xDrive (AWD). We have Full Coverage with a $500 Deductible and pay $1,700 every 6 months with USAA. Our Homeowners Insurance with Full Replacement Coverage, etc., on our 2 year old, $700K home just renewed for $1,300 Annually, again with USAA.

[Nana2Teddy]

Sounds like you need to consider a house that is reasonable and comfortable. A patio villa is what we decided on and we live here full time. Cost of house upkeep it a lot less and we have more time for fun. We just got tired of the two house situation. We were spending too much traveling back and forth and worrying about other place when here. Plus cost of keeping up two places. We have considerable more money to enjoy with one house especially since we for patio villa.

Colony has big master bedroom and guest room has enough room for queen bed and crib or cot for grand child we also have pullout sofa for grand kids. Dining room big enough for tabl with six chairs and nook has for more chairs. Living area big enough for seating six to eight. You get the idea. Place for car and golf cart. Here is link to one like ours. Cost of upkeep is a lot less too.

1458 Olympia St, The Villages, FL 32163 | MLS #G5067386 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1458-Olympia-St-The-Villages-FL-32163/117520810_zpid/)

Next, you need to think of all your costs.
You have a place in MA. How much are you spending on this place? Taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, etc. Doyou have a car there too with all the upkeep costs for it? What do you do there for social and fun?

If you become a Florida resident, you will have no taxes on your income, your property taxes will be lower with a cap on any increase each year. If you live here full time then you could use the money from the sale of MA place to pay cash and probably have money left over to live on.

We have 56+ golf courses, 180 clubs, pickle ball, putt put, Numerous pools, biking, and more to keep you busy and meet friends. There are also a lot of volunteer opportunities. Grandpa camps for kids to have things to do when visit.

Take quality of live in consideration along with finances.

Good luck.
No STATE income tax. 3000+ clubs.

[jimjamuser]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?
I don't understand WHY you would concentrate on the cost of homeowners and car insurance when determining whether to live in TV Land or NOT? There are MUCH BIGGER factors at play here. TV Land is about ACTIVITIES. Do you plan on engaging HEAVILY in the AVAILABLE ACTIVITIES? Another big factor is the cost of the house. Some areas have lower-cost houses than others. There are different size houses.
.......The other big factor (like a gorilla in a room) is will you spend the summers in TV Land or are you going to be a snowbird. I hope that you know that summers are VERY hot in Florida and the last 8 years have been record heat. And the prediction of HEAT (and likely hurricanes) is going to CONTINUE increasing for years. So, there are GREATER factors to consider about relocating to Florida than MERELY insurance costs.
.........Personally, unless you plan to keep 2 homes, I would locate in one of the Carolinas. Find a retirement area there in order to avoid the Florida summer HEAT, which is already beginning.

[Nana2Teddy]

I don't understand WHY you would concentrate on the cost of homeowners and car insurance when determining whether to live in TV Land or NOT? There are MUCH BIGGER factors at play here. TV Land is about ACTIVITIES. Do you plan on engaging HEAVILY in the AVAILABLE ACTIVITIES? Another big factor is the cost of the house. Some areas have lower-cost houses than others. There are different size houses.
.......The other big factor (like a gorilla in a room) is will you spend the summers in TV Land or are you going to be a snowbird. I hope that you know that summers are VERY hot in Florida and the last 8 years have been record heat. And the prediction of HEAT (and likely hurricanes) is going to CONTINUE increasing for years. So, there are GREATER factors to consider about relocating to Florida than MERELY insurance costs.
.........Personally, unless you plan to keep 2 homes, I would locate in one of the Carolinas. Find a retirement area there in order to avoid the Florida summer HEAT, which is already beginning.
OP states they’re in Fort Meyers now.

[Aces4]

I don't understand WHY you would concentrate on the cost of homeowners and car insurance when determining whether to live in TV Land or NOT? There are MUCH BIGGER factors at play here. TV Land is about ACTIVITIES. Do you plan on engaging HEAVILY in the AVAILABLE ACTIVITIES? Another big factor is the cost of the house. Some areas have lower-cost houses than others. There are different size houses.
.......The other big factor (like a gorilla in a room) is will you spend the summers in TV Land or are you going to be a snowbird. I hope that you know that summers are VERY hot in Florida and the last 8 years have been record heat. And the prediction of HEAT (and likely hurricanes) is going to CONTINUE increasing for years. So, there are GREATER factors to consider about relocating to Florida than MERELY insurance costs.
.........Personally, unless you plan to keep 2 homes, I would locate in one of the Carolinas. Find a retirement area there in order to avoid the Florida summer HEAT, which is already beginning.

Most of us don’t have 50,000 years to worry about that heat increase hitting.:mornincoffee:

[golfing eagles]

Most of us don’t have 50,000 years to worry about that heat increase hitting.:mornincoffee:

No, no, no. Don't confuse him with the facts!!!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Karmanng]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

IF you cant afford TV you wont even be able to buy anything in ARIZONA !!!! home prices for the size in Tv will be at least 100,000 more if not double esp if it is new.............my home inusrance here went up $300 and the car also........I had to raise the deductable to get it to a more affordable price............its not just Florida being raised its all over.......ANd we dont get any HURRICANES.........I have been told many times we have to pay for everyones disasters!!!!!! Kinda not fair or nice

[Aces4]

No STATE income tax. 3000+ clubs.

You pay that state income tax under different techniques in Florida. You must be familiar with many expenses, OP, since you already live in Florida. It is not cheap to live in The Villages, plan accordingly.

[JGibson]

Most everything is more expensive in TV. A hamburger in 5 guys at Brownwood is $12.00, that's without cheese, fries, and drink.

From cars to contractors everything is more expensive here.

The Championship golf courses keep going up, amenities are up,car insurance is up, golf cart insurance is up, house insurance is up, landscaping is up, gas is pushing $4.00 again and food is more money in TV.

There is nothing cheap about TV and everyone thinks you are filthy rich if you live in the Villages.

One reason is there are enough people to pay these exorbitant prices and keep the cash cow feed.
Also, you only have your income so not impossible but can be a challenge.

It's not exactly Beverley Hills but it isn’t cheap here and you might want to trust your instincts financially.

If you can afford to live here it is a wonderful place to live outside the cost to live here, but I guess you get nothing for nothing.

Good Luck.

[Karmanng]

Per year

Whats the company? As I like to pay per year not per month or every 6......thats also how they can get a raise on you.........

[Karmanng]

I perform wind mitigation inspections. I am licensed, insured and certified to do so and run an inspection business here in TV.

You've got it mostly correct, there are a few more things.

The type of connection: toe-nails, clips, single straps, double straps
The type of nails for the deck to truss connection. 6d or 8d. There is also a new standard for a thicker ring shank nail, but it's not entirely clear if insurance companies are factoring that in or not.

There is also impact protection. Most of the newer homes that I perform win mits on have additional hurricane bracing on the garage doors. I would say this started in TV around 1998 or so. The oldest homes don't have it. There should be a pressure rating sticker or ASTM rating somewhere on the door.

You can also have impact rated glass and entry doors. I have yet to find any of that here in TV, but I have seen it near the coasts although I have not done any Wind Mits out that way on either side of FL. Further, you can have hurricane rated shutters of various types, again, I've not found that here in TV.

Most homes built after 2004(2002 in some jurisdictions) already have a wind mitigation discount built into the insurance as that is when the Florida Building standards changed. That said, not every insurance provider will provide the discount without the inspection, so be sure to ask your agent. If it is not included, get a wind mit done, it's worth it.

It takes a little more than a few minutes but usually under an hour and it requires some time in the attic but well worth it for the discount.

How do we get in touch with you?

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I don't understand WHY you would concentrate on the cost of homeowners and car insurance when determining whether to live in TV Land or NOT? There are MUCH BIGGER factors at play here. TV Land is about ACTIVITIES. Do you plan on engaging HEAVILY in the AVAILABLE ACTIVITIES? Another big factor is the cost of the house. Some areas have lower-cost houses than others. There are different size houses.
.......The other big factor (like a gorilla in a room) is will you spend the summers in TV Land or are you going to be a snowbird. I hope that you know that summers are VERY hot in Florida and the last 8 years have been record heat. And the prediction of HEAT (and likely hurricanes) is going to CONTINUE increasing for years. So, there are GREATER factors to consider about relocating to Florida than MERELY insurance costs.
.........Personally, unless you plan to keep 2 homes, I would locate in one of the Carolinas. Find a retirement area there in order to avoid the Florida summer HEAT, which is already beginning.
You seem to always be harping on the heat in Florida , The simple solution to that is keeping yourself acclimated to it ,by going out in it . I always walk or ride bike in afternoon after I finish the gym ,no matter how hot it is out, if I’m alone I never and I mean ,never sleep with AC , I’ve also never slept with the heat on either ,, I drink no cold water when I’m out even if it’s at beach just whatever temp the water is . I don’t even own a pair of shorts except for gym clothes , I wear jeans or slacks everywhere except the gym even when I lived in Miami Beach . I’ve lived many years in hotter places then Florida and people seem to go on with there life without whining about the heat

[golfing eagles]

You seem to always be harping on the heat in Florida , The simple solution to that is keeping yourself acclimated to it ,by going out in it . I always walk or ride bike in afternoon after I finish the gym ,no matter how hot it is out, if I’m alone I never and I mean ,never sleep with AC , I’ve also never slept with the heat on either ,, I drink no cold water when I’m out even if it’s at beach just whatever temp the water is . I don’t even own a pair of shorts except for gym clothes , I wear jeans or slacks everywhere except the gym even when I lived in Miami Beach . I’ve lived many years in hotter places then Florida and people seem to go on with there life without whining about the heat

You do understand that the Florida heat (like it's been frigid cold here before the industrial revolution) is just the tip of the iceberg on his repetitive ad nauseum theme of "infernal combustion engines" causing "global warming" that will lead to the extinction of mankind. Amazing how some believe that we will have glaciers in Ocala and icebergs hitting the Miami docks once we switch to all electric cars.

[Papa_lecki]

Most everything is more expensive in TV. A hamburger in 5 guys at Brownwood is $12.00, that's without cheese, fries, and drink.

Keep telling yourself that, I just went to five guys web site,

In Brownwood a burger is 10.09
In some random town in South Carolina it’s 9.29
In some renadom town outside of Philadelphia, it’s 9.69
In Miami and Los Angeles, it’s 10.59

Is $0.40 or $0.80 that much more expensive?

[tombpot]

Sell your place in MA problem solved

[golfing eagles]

Keep telling yourself that, I just went to five guys web site,

In Brownwood a burger is 10.09
In some random town in South Carolina it’s 9.29
In some renadom town outside of Philadelphia, it’s 9.69
In Miami and Los Angeles, it’s 10.59

Is $0.40 or $0.80 that much more expensive?

How many times do I have to post it?

STOP CONFUSING PEOPLE WITH THE FACTS!!!

[Papa_lecki]

Sell your place in MA problem solved

But when the oceans rise, and Florida is under water, where will he live?
Unless, The VIllages becomes Ocean Front, then you can’t touch a home here for less than $1 million.

[jimjamuser]

Sounds like you need to consider a house that is reasonable and comfortable. A patio villa is what we decided on and we live here full time. Cost of house upkeep it a lot less and we have more time for fun. We just got tired of the two house situation. We were spending too much traveling back and forth and worrying about other place when here. Plus cost of keeping up two places. We have considerable more money to enjoy with one house especially since we for patio villa.

Colony has big master bedroom and guest room has enough room for queen bed and crib or cot for grand child we also have pullout sofa for grand kids. Dining room big enough for tabl with six chairs and nook has for more chairs. Living area big enough for seating six to eight. You get the idea. Place for car and golf cart. Here is link to one like ours. Cost of upkeep is a lot less too.

1458 Olympia St, The Villages, FL 32163 | MLS #G5067386 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1458-Olympia-St-The-Villages-FL-32163/117520810_zpid/)

Next, you need to think of all your costs.
You have a place in MA. How much are you spending on this place? Taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, etc. Doyou have a car there too with all the upkeep costs for it? What do you do there for social and fun?

If you become a Florida resident, you will have no taxes on your income, your property taxes will be lower with a cap on any increase each year. If you live here full time then you could use the money from the sale of MA place to pay cash and probably have money left over to live on.

We have 56+ golf courses, 180 clubs, pickle ball, putt put, Numerous pools, biking, and more to keep you busy and meet friends. There are also a lot of volunteer opportunities. Grandpa camps for kids to have things to do when visit.

Take quality of live in consideration along with finances.

Good luck.
Good post. I agree that they should consider a patio villa.

[golfing eagles]

But when the oceans rise, and Florida is under water, where will he live?
Unless, The VIllages becomes Ocean Front, then you can’t touch a home here for less than $1 million.

Not a problem unless he plans on living for more than 25,000 years

[jimjamuser]

But were they driving cars with "infernal combustion engines"???? Didn't work it in????You're slipping :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
I didn't want to confuse the issue with too many solutions to TV Land problems. It seemed that car insurance costs were being zeroed in on........even though there are more important issues involved in deciding to move here or NOT. Initial home costs should be of greater concern. And I agreed with the post about a Patio Villa as a way to keep costs down. I also wanted (in another post) a POTENTIAL TV Land home buyer to be aware of the high HEAT AND humidity of living here in the summer. And the scientists' prediction of record HEAT in the near future.
........(Which I know that you disagree with) but is a factor that should be "front of mind" for any potential buyer staying year-round. They can agree with me (look it up) or with you, I don't care. But, I care to advise them to include in their decision tree whether they want to be exposed to the summer heat. I advise that they SIMPLY research that FACTOR and forget about MINOR factors like home and car insurance!

[JMintzer]

I didn't want to confuse the issue with too many solutions to TV Land problems.

Well, that's a first!

[JMintzer]

.........Personally, unless you plan to keep 2 homes, I would locate in one of the Carolinas. Find a retirement area there in order to avoid the Florida summer HEAT, which is already beginning.

Are you taking your own advice? I'd like to know so I can plan a going away party...:D

[jimjamuser]

OP states they’re in Fort Meyers now.
Which just means that when comparing climates of FT. Meyers to TV Land that the Gulf will moderate temperatures compared to the Villages. But, Ft. Meyers has a greater chance of getting hit by a hurricane than here in the Villages. Also, Ft. Meyers can get hit with RED TIDE, which causes health problems.
.........So, WHEREVER they come from, what I said about TV Land still applies.

[golfing eagles]

I didn't want to confuse the issue with too many solutions to TV Land problems. It seemed that car insurance costs were being zeroed in on........even though there are more important issues involved in deciding to move here or NOT. Initial home costs should be of greater concern. And I agreed with the post about a Patio Villa as a way to keep costs down. I also wanted (in another post) a POTENTIAL TV Land home buyer to be aware of the high HEAT AND humidity of living here in the summer. And the scientists' prediction of record HEAT in the near future.
........(Which I know that you disagree with) but is a factor that should be "front of mind" for any potential buyer staying year-round. They can agree with me (look it up) or with you, I don't care. But, I care to advise them to include in their decision tree whether they want to be exposed to the summer heat. I advise that they SIMPLY research that FACTOR and forget about MINOR factors like home and car insurance!

I like the last 1/2 of the last sentence. The rest, not so much :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Most of us don’t have 50,000 years to worry about that heat increase hitting.:mornincoffee:
Most people are NOT aware that the last 8 years have been record heat worldwide, including in Florida. People should not "stick their heads in the sand" and be unaware of these temperature facts. Especially when they are deciding to buy a house here to stay during the summer.
........Last year the Gulf had record heat in about June and the Florida west coast got evaporated by hurricane Irma. I doubt that people have forgotten about that already!

[jimjamuser]

You seem to always be harping on the heat in Florida , The simple solution to that is keeping yourself acclimated to it ,by going out in it . I always walk or ride bike in afternoon after I finish the gym ,no matter how hot it is out, if I’m alone I never and I mean ,never sleep with AC , I’ve also never slept with the heat on either ,, I drink no cold water when I’m out even if it’s at beach just whatever temp the water is . I don’t even own a pair of shorts except for gym clothes , I wear jeans or slacks everywhere except the gym even when I lived in Miami Beach . I’ve lived many years in hotter places then Florida and people seem to go on with there life without whining about the heat
I appreciate your advice for living with a BAD THING.........Florida heat. But, this person is asking for advice about locating here in central Florida. And I (and others) are supplying ADVICE. Maybe death valley, Ca. is worse than central Florida, but I am saying that Florida HEAT is dangerous to one's health.
........I can give a simple proof to this case...........I notice that the Pickleball courts and the tennis courts and the softball field are VERY, VERY vacant around 3 or 4 PM in the HEAT of the afternoon. And we are just beginning to feel the HEAT of this coming summer!

[jimjamuser]

You do understand that the Florida heat (like it's been frigid cold here before the industrial revolution) is just the tip of the iceberg on his repetitive ad nauseum theme of "infernal combustion engines" causing "global warming" that will lead to the extinction of mankind. Amazing how some believe that we will have glaciers in Ocala and icebergs hitting the Miami docks once we switch to all electric cars.
Exaggeration to prove a point is a good technique in a debate. But, one must be careful to NOT take the EXAGGERATION to the point of LAUGHABILITY. That takes points away in a debate.

[Ponygirl]

Some good advice especially abt the increase in heat that affects our health But I know it’s Florida so we can’t say the words “climate change”

My homeowners insurance went from 1200 per year two years ago to 3800 for the next year and I am in a 2-2 courtyard villa Sooo. I am getting quotes now for a new roof to bring the insurance cost down. Ughh.

[jimjamuser]

I like the last 1/2 of the last sentence. The rest, not so much :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
So, we are starting to agree on SOME areas. Keep up the good work. I even agreed with one of your earlier posts and checked the agree with box. Life shows us so many miracles.

[golfing eagles]

Exaggeration to prove a point is a good technique in a debate. But, one must be careful to NOT take the EXAGGERATION to the point of LAUGHABILITY. That takes points away in a debate.

What if I wanted to exaggerate for laughs????? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

What if I wanted to exaggerate for laughs????? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Fair point! Motivation determines destiny and success!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Most everything is more expensive in TV. A hamburger in 5 guys at Brownwood is $12.00, that's without cheese, fries, and drink.

From cars to contractors everything is more expensive here.

The Championship golf courses keep going up, amenities are up,car insurance is up, golf cart insurance is up, house insurance is up, landscaping is up, gas is pushing $4.00 again and food is more money in TV.

There is nothing cheap about TV and everyone thinks you are filthy rich if you live in the Villages.

One reason is there are enough people to pay these exorbitant prices and keep the cash cow feed.
Also, you only have your income so not impossible but can be a challenge.

It's not exactly Beverley Hills but it isn’t cheap here and you might want to trust your instincts financially.

If you can afford to live here it is a wonderful place to live outside the cost to live here, but I guess you get nothing for nothing.

Good Luck.

You can actually look things up. There are sales and tax records for every property that's ever been sold in The Villages.

With just a couple of exceptions (a couple of actual gated neighborhoods like Hickory Hammock), there is no HOA, but there is an amenity fee. That amenity fee is still under $200/month for everyone, no matter how fancy or plain their home or property.

Taxes in Central Florida are higher than they used to be, but they're still cheaper than in many states and remain some of the lowest property taxes in the country.

There is no state income tax at all so if you're still working, that's totally a plus. Remember, this isn't a retirement community. It's a 55+ community. And there are many homes where at least one person living in it is under 55, and many are still working even into their 70's.

The cost of gas is cheaper in Florida than in many other states. The cost of gas in our area is around 40 cents /per gallon/ cheaper than in West Palm Beach, on average. I know this, I travel there often.

Dining out seems to be more expensive here than in other areas, although many chains have nationwide specials, and the restaurants here have the exact same price on those specials as the same restaurant in the chain in any other state. So the increased cost of dining out isn't specific to the Villages, with regards to those chains, at least.

Other restaurants that aren't part of a national chain appear fairly expensive. However, the reason my whole belly clams are going to be more expensive here in Central Florida than they are in Old Saybrook Connecticut, is because the ones in CT come from - CT. No one has to pay to ship them to Florida. You can't get "Florida-caught" whole belly clams in Florida, it's just not a thing. Same with Maine lobster. If you want Maine lobster cheaper than what you have to pay here in Florida, then go up to Maine and get them off the docks.

Central Florida is somewhat isolated from - pretty much everything. And so the costs of getting things here is going to be higher, than if you went to the source. Conversely - if you're in the market for a horse, you can get one cheaper here than in New Orleans, LA. This is horse country afterall. And if you want great citrus fruit, you need look no further than your own (or your neighbor's) back yard. No charge.

Butter is higher everywhere, so are eggs, though the prices are starting to drop again.

Insurance is high, but it's high all over Florida, because the Florida government chose to keep regulations on construction and insurance claims as loose as possible to "save the taxpayers" the almighty dollar. The citizens took great advantage of that in getting brand new roofs, courtesy of the insurance companies - and it has come around to bite us all in the butt. Again, that's not a Villages thing, it's a Florida thing.

You can still get a house in The Villages for less than $200,000. Your insurance and taxes on it will vary depending on the individual circumstances of your house and property. Your amenity fee will still be under $200/month. Your daily/weekly/monthly expenses for just living here can easily still be under $1300/month if you dine home more than you dine out, and partake in the thousands of activities available to you at no "extra" cost beyond your amenity fee charge.

It's still less expensive for me to live here, than the same sized home in Connecticut with no amenity fee at all.

Affordable is subjective, and relative to whoever is being required to pay the bills. A millionaire will not be able to afford a billion-dollar estate. But they'll be able to afford a $500,000 estate and have plenty left over to put their kids through Harvard.

A couple in their late 50's living only on a pension, not old enough for social security, who saved up only a couple months worth of income when they were working and can pay in full for their $200,000 double-wide, will be able to do so here.

[jimjamuser]

Fair point! Motivation determines destiny and success!
This also applies to the thread-starting person that could easily brush away insurance costs for home and car by liking the environment of TV Land so much that sacrifices could be made. All kinds, but one obvious one would be to work a few days per week and thus have no worries about insignificant insurance costs.
........They could even get a job (?) riding around in one of those community service vehicles - "that ain't wooken and your checks for free".
..........Life can be so easy in PARADISE if you just "let it happen".
...........PARADISE being defined as a coastal beachfront retirement area where the summer thermometer NEVER goes above 85 degrees with minimal humidity.

[Aces4]

You can actually look things up. There are sales and tax records for every property that's ever been sold in The Villages.

With just a couple of exceptions (a couple of actual gated neighborhoods like Hickory Hammock), there is no HOA, but there is an amenity fee. That amenity fee is still under $200/month for everyone, no matter how fancy or plain their home or property.

Taxes in Central Florida are higher than they used to be, but they're still cheaper than in many states and remain some of the lowest property taxes in the country.

There is no state income tax at all so if you're still working, that's totally a plus. Remember, this isn't a retirement community. It's a 55+ community. And there are many homes where at least one person living in it is under 55, and many are still working even into their 70's.

The cost of gas is cheaper in Florida than in many other states. The cost of gas in our area is around 40 cents /per gallon/ cheaper than in West Palm Beach, on average. I know this, I travel there often.

Dining out seems to be more expensive here than in other areas, although many chains have nationwide specials, and the restaurants here have the exact same price on those specials as the same restaurant in the chain in any other state. So the increased cost of dining out isn't specific to the Villages, with regards to those chains, at least.

Other restaurants that aren't part of a national chain appear fairly expensive. However, the reason my whole belly clams are going to be more expensive here in Central Florida than they are in Old Saybrook Connecticut, is because the ones in CT come from - CT. No one has to pay to ship them to Florida. You can't get "Florida-caught" whole belly clams in Florida, it's just not a thing. Same with Maine lobster. If you want Maine lobster cheaper than what you have to pay here in Florida, then go up to Maine and get them off the docks.

Central Florida is somewhat isolated from - pretty much everything. And so the costs of getting things here is going to be higher, than if you went to the source. Conversely - if you're in the market for a horse, you can get one cheaper here than in New Orleans, LA. This is horse country afterall. And if you want great citrus fruit, you need look no further than your own (or your neighbor's) back yard. No charge.

Butter is higher everywhere, so are eggs, though the prices are starting to drop again.

Insurance is high, but it's high all over Florida, because the Florida government chose to keep regulations on construction and insurance claims as loose as possible to "save the taxpayers" the almighty dollar. The citizens took great advantage of that in getting brand new roofs, courtesy of the insurance companies - and it has come around to bite us all in the butt. Again, that's not a Villages thing, it's a Florida thing.

You can still get a house in The Villages for less than $200,000. Your insurance and taxes on it will vary depending on the individual circumstances of your house and property. Your amenity fee will still be under $200/month. Your daily/weekly/monthly expenses for just living here can easily still be under $1300/month if you dine home more than you dine out, and partake in the thousands of activities available to you at no "extra" cost beyond your amenity fee charge.

It's still less expensive for me to live here, than the same sized home in Connecticut with no amenity fee at all.

Affordable is subjective, and relative to whoever is being required to pay the bills. A millionaire will not be able to afford a billion-dollar estate. But they'll be able to afford a $500,000 estate and have plenty left over to put their kids through Harvard.

A couple in their late 50's living only on a pension, not old enough for social security, who saved up only a couple months worth of income when they were working and can pay in full for their $200,000 double-wide, will be able to do so here.

We must live in different worlds, OB. If one has a million dollar retirement, spends $500,000 on a home, puts kids through college and lives in retirement on the remaining $500,000, one had better hope for a very early death.

[JMintzer]

Exaggeration to prove a point is a good technique in a debate. But, one must be careful to NOT take the EXAGGERATION to the point of LAUGHABILITY. That takes points away in a debate.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b7d87775417fcee056cd4fe/1547745684410-HO2VOJ45255WC4U6VCUV/self+awareness.gif

[kkingston57]

Most everything is more expensive in TV. A hamburger in 5 guys at Brownwood is $12.00, that's without cheese, fries, and drink.

From cars to contractors everything is more expensive here.

The Championship golf courses keep going up, amenities are up,car insurance is up, golf cart insurance is up, house insurance is up, landscaping is up, gas is pushing $4.00 again and food is more money in TV.

There is nothing cheap about TV and everyone thinks you are filthy rich if you live in the Villages.

One reason is there are enough people to pay these exorbitant prices and keep the cash cow feed.
Also, you only have your income so not impossible but can be a challenge.

It's not exactly Beverley Hills but it isn’t cheap here and you might want to trust your instincts financially.

If you can afford to live here it is a wonderful place to live outside the cost to live here, but I guess you get nothing for nothing.

Good Luck.

Lived in Florida entire life, mostly Palm Beach County. TV, and other areas in Central Florida, is one of the most affordable places to live in Florida. Where else can you get amenities that cost $165 +/- a month?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

We must live in different worlds, OB. If one has a million dollar retirement, spends $500,000 on a home, puts kids through college and lives in retirement on the remaining $500,000, one had better hope for a very early death.

A millionaire doesn't have only a million bucks, and never another dime for the rest of their lives. They have investments, and interest, and dividends, pensions and stocks and whatever the heck else they have.

A millionaire who has kids young enough to be sent to college, is still working. That means they're still earning an income. They can afford a $500,000 home, that they only have to buy once - and set aside money every year to put their kids through college.

I was talking about "affordability" in general, not "whether or not a millionaire can afford to live in The Villages. That's why I put that part in another paragraph.

[Aces4]

A millionaire doesn't have only a million bucks, and never another dime for the rest of their lives. They have investments, and interest, and dividends, pensions and stocks and whatever the heck else they have.

A millionaire who has kids young enough to be sent to college, is still working. That means they're still earning an income. They can afford a $500,000 home, that they only have to buy once - and set aside money every year to put their kids through college.

I was talking about "affordability" in general, not "whether or not a millionaire can afford to live in The Villages. That's why I put that part in another paragraph.

If a millionaire blows $500,000 on his home, pays the costs to maintain said home, pays yearly college tuition for a couple of kids, pays income taxes, maintains vehicles plus everyday expenses and has
some money in the shaky stock market… I’d say he’s walking on very thin ice. Now if he is a multi-millionaire and not in the stock market, that’s a different story. It’s hard to save when you’re stretched that thin.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If a millionaire blows $500,000 on his home, pays the costs to maintain said home, pays yearly college tuition for a couple of kids, pays income taxes, maintains vehicles plus everyday expenses and has
some money in the shaky stock market… I’d say he’s walking on very thin ice. Now if he is a multi-millionaire and not in the stock market, that’s a different story. It’s hard to save when you’re stretched that thin.

I mean, I'm not a CPA or anything but this is pretty simple math. Here's an example of what I'm talking about - your typical millionaire family:

2 parents, 2 minor children. Household is pulling in around $750,000 per year, while living in their "less than $500,000 home." They want to upgrade. They sock away $100,000 per year for the kids college education. They pick last year's BMW model instead of this year's Mercedes for their new car. They vacation at Yellowstone instead of Cabo, or a Disney cruise instead of a Windjammer.

By the time their kids are old enough for college, they have around $600,000 socked away in their college trust fund. One of them can afford Harvard, the other could probably swing it with a Pell grant to augment.

Now that the kids are in their first year of school, they sell their "less than $500,000" house for - let's call it $400,000. They use most of it as a downpayment on their new home, and sock away another $100,000 for moving expenses and new furnishings and replacing the carpet that came with the house for some nice wooden planks.

Meanwhile - they're still earning $750,000 per year between them. They still have their usual expenses, so their net at the end of the year will still be in the positives, which they can continue to save.

They can live VERY comfortably, and still save money for when they actually retire. And - at that point, their pensions, investments, 401K, Social Security, all of that, will be a lovely nest egg to live off of for the rest of their lives.

[Babubhat]

Priced Out of Florida, More Retirees Are Trying This Sunbelt State on For Size
Seniors are finding that Alabama’s Baldwin County is not only more affordable, but has the same weather and same beaches that make its neighbor a popular retirement destination

[THUNDERCHIEF]

Our insurance is 460 per year for home insurance-- i think thats a great price. You have to get several quotes for hone insurance- shop around

[THUNDERCHIEF]

I have travelers for auto insurance 16 hundred per year-- this is less than i paid in michigan

[DiviAruba]

If you have a car that "lives" in Florida, it must be registered and insured in Florida. It does not matter if you also have property in Massachusetts. This issue is not whether your homeowner's would pay, rather whether your auto insurance will deny coverage if you falsified the main location of your car.

Check with your insurance agent as YMMV
I can get it insured in MA but it would have to be in MA once a year for the inspection sticker.

[DiviAruba]

Some good advice especially abt the increase in heat that affects our health But I know it’s Florida so we can’t say the words “climate change”

My homeowners insurance went from 1200 per year two years ago to 3800 for the next year and I am in a 2-2 courtyard villa Sooo. I am getting quotes now for a new roof to bring the insurance cost down. Ughh.
So that huge rate increase is because of your roof?
That was really my question. How much have insurance rates increased since the hurricane?

[Laker14]

Priced Out of Florida, More Retirees Are Trying This Sunbelt State on For Size
Seniors are finding that Alabama’s Baldwin County is not only more affordable, but has the same weather and same beaches that make its neighbor a popular retirement destination

That is a bit of a stretch. First of all, because of Florida's north-to-south stretch, Jacksonville does not have the" same beaches and weather" as Miami or Naples.

A quick Google search shows that the average January temperatures of Orlando, approximately mid-way down the north-south stretch, are 10 degrees warmer than in Alabama's Baldwin County. Recalling how crisp our mornings in TV can be during the coolest months, I find that significant.

I considered the Carolinas as my winter destination and determined that for me, it wouldn't be warm enough. Others I know love it there. There is a lot to like. However they are not "the same".

[Nell57]

[FONT="Arial"[/FONT]I didn't want to confuse the issue with too many solutions to TV Land problems. It seemed that car insurance costs were being zeroed in on........even though there are more important issues involved in deciding to move here or NOT. Initial home costs should be of greater concern. And I agreed with the post about a Patio Villa as a way to keep costs down. I also wanted (in another post) a POTENTIAL TV Land home buyer to be aware of the high HEAT AND humidity of living here in the summer. And the scientists' prediction of record HEAT in the near future.
........(Which I know that you disagree with) but is a factor that should be "front of mind" for any potential buyer staying year-round. They can agree with me (look it up) or with you, I don't care. But, I care to advise them to include in their decision tree whether they want to be exposed to the summer heat. I advise that they SIMPLY research that FACTOR and forget about MINOR factors like home and car insurance!

again…..he lives in Ft. Meyer. He doesn’t need a lesson on Florida heat .

[Graciegolden614]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

In May 2022, I put a new roof on my home in The Villages. Got home insurance through Progressive, $1350 per year after roof was done. This year the renewal was $3900. Needless to say, I had to scramble to find something less expensive. It is something that I have to do EVERY year now, and each year it is getting harder and harder to find an insurance company that will even write a policy. Looking forward to selling and probably just renting for a few months in the winter.

[Laurel Maryland]

The OP appears to be calculating costs. The one thing I would add is that in addition to home owners insurance and car insurance, there is a good chance that a newer home in The Villages will come with a bond, which has to be paid in addition to the purchase price of the house, so don't forget to figure that in to your calculations.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So that huge rate increase is because of your roof?
That was really my question. How much have insurance rates increased since the hurricane?

It depends.

Our insurance went up around a hundred bucks. But we have a metal roof, and our property has manufactured home insurance, NOT regular homeowner insurance.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Our insurance is 460 per year for home insurance-- i think thats a great price. You have to get several quotes for hone insurance- shop around if you say so ,but I find this very hard to believe unless your living in a tent

[Aces4]

I mean, I'm not a CPA or anything but this is pretty simple math. Here's an example of what I'm talking about - your typical millionaire family:

2 parents, 2 minor children. Household is pulling in around $750,000 per year, while living in their "less than $500,000 home." They want to upgrade. They sock away $100,000 per year for the kids college education. They pick last year's BMW model instead of this year's Mercedes for their new car. They vacation at Yellowstone instead of Cabo, or a Disney cruise instead of a Windjammer.

By the time their kids are old enough for college, they have around $600,000 socked away in their college trust fund. One of them can afford Harvard, the other could probably swing it with a Pell grant to augment.

Now that the kids are in their first year of school, they sell their "less than $500,000" house for - let's call it $400,000. They use most of it as a downpayment on their new home, and sock away another $100,000 for moving expenses and new furnishings and replacing the carpet that came with the house for some nice wooden planks.

Meanwhile - they're still earning $750,000 per year between them. They still have their usual expenses, so their net at the end of the year will still be in the positives, which they can continue to save.

They can live VERY comfortably, and still save money for when they actually retire. And - at that point, their pensions, investments, 401K, Social Security, all of that, will be a lovely nest egg to live off of for the rest of their lives.

I didn’t know we were going back to newlyweds, I thought we were discussing current financial retiree situations, not people living outside the bubble. Another big factor you missed though, is the tax burden from wages and real estate. Poor and lower income people don’t make the largest percent of payments.

BTW, Pell Grants are for very low income families and they sure wouldn’t qualify for that.

[Roron123]

Depends how old is your house? AAA does great with house, cars and golf cart 2700/year 😆

[herremans]

Our ins doubled with villages,one year --went elsewhere

[rustyp]

Our insurance is 460 per year for home insurance-- i think thats a great price. You have to get several quotes for hone insurance- shop around

That is a great price. How much coverage does your $460 policy provide ?

[golfing eagles]

Our ins doubled with villages,one year --went elsewhere

So, the only criterium by which you decided to stay in TV or move elsewhere was the cost of homeowner's insurance??? OK, whatever.:confused::confused::confused:

[Laker14]

So, the only criterium by which you decided to stay in TV or move elsewhere was the cost of homeowner's insurance??? OK, whatever.:confused::confused::confused:

poster might have meant they went elsewhere for insurance?

[JGibson]

Keep telling yourself that, I just went to five guys web site,

In Brownwood a burger is 10.09
In some random town in South Carolina it’s 9.29
In some renadom town outside of Philadelphia, it’s 9.69
In Miami and Los Angeles, it’s 10.59

Is $0.40 or $0.80 that much more expensive?


The median income in Sumter County is $46,000 in Los Angeles it’s $80,000.

So tell me again how they’re not price gouging.

[golfing eagles]

The median income in Sumter County is $46,000 in Los Angeles it’s $80,000.

So tell me again how they’re not price gouging.

Not really sure there is a direct correlation between the cost of restaurant food and median income in a county. If the median income in Los Angeles is $80,000, is it the same in Beverly Hills as it is in Watts? Do they charge 10-12 times as much for a burger in Beverly Hills than in Watts? Is the median income in TV the same as Sumter County as a whole??? Since most residents in TV are retired, should the comparison be net worth???

I think we should go with the OP's 40-80 cent absolute price difference and not try to read more into it than is there.

[golfing eagles]

poster might have meant they went elsewhere for insurance?

That would make more sense. My bad.

[Leisha2]

It would be great for 1 person, 2 bed, 1 bath, large master, corner lot. Beautiful. Alice 352-272-4678

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?

[joelfmi]

I hope you don't believe everything you read. It is expensive to live there at the villages and all of Florida now.

[golfing eagles]

I hope you don't believe everything you read. It is expensive to live there at the villages and all of Florida now.

So says the person who does not, and never has lived here. Ignore him, everybody else does.

[Pairadocs]

OP, a lot depends on the age of the house, ours is a 2013 vintage concrete block with wind mitigation on the roof, the result was a mild increase of around $300. Car insurance also depends on your selected coverage, especially deductibles, I tend to have $1000 or higher deductibles, I just got the bill, 2 cars (2012 and 2021 vintage) and it is around $1700, I have some questions and will be discussing with agent shortly.
The age of the roof on your house will have a big impact on your insurance rate, if it is approaching 15 years, you better plan on a new roof in your future (at your cost).
Hope this helps, make sure you account for all of the other expenses. Search this site, as there is another thread on the typical living expenses.

Also many Utube videos on same subject... but again, unless you know the personal interests, hobbies (travel is going to require more than needlework hobby), how much routine maintenance a person is willing to do themselves and how much they want to hire done, just too many variables. I know neighbors who don't even use their autos once a week, do everything by golf cart. Have relatives here who never use their golf cart to go anywhere, even to the grocery just blocks away, and even drive to the postal station/pool in an auto, so how to plan unless you know you'll use $50 in gasoline a mo. or $300. Hard to give someone else advice... past just very general !

[Andyb]

I thought I had everything figured out for moving to The Villages. I had to wait for my divorce to go through to buy a house. It went through last week and I am now rethinking if I can afford living in TV.
What is scaring me is homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have a place in MA that I can register the car, so that would make the insurance much cheaper. I am in N Ft Myers and homeowners and car insurance has jumped in price since Ian. Have the prices also gone up for insurance in TV?
Inflation means everything goes up everywhere, except your income.
Insurance most everywhere where there is growth has gone through the roof. Changes sometimes have consequences, as witnessed these last two years.

[jimjamuser]

So, the only criterium by which you decided to stay in TV or move elsewhere was the cost of homeowner's insurance??? OK, whatever.:confused::confused::confused:
Yes, my point exactly. They are not looking at the BIG PICTURE, but rather concentrating on minor details

[RICH1]

They wanted to Raise Minimum Wage, and Now we all are suffering the consequences! It’s Expensive to live everywhere! If you can’t afford living in The Villages, then you need to rethink your life’s Plan .., PRICES ARE GOING UP IN THE VILLAGES

[rustyp]

They wanted to Raise Minimum Wage, and Now we all are suffering the consequences! It’s Expensive to live everywhere! If you can’t afford living in The Villages, then you need to rethink your life’s Plan .., PRICES ARE GOING UP IN THE VILLAGES


Does immigration drive down inflation?

While the first speaks of immigration increasing the demand for goods and services; the latter speaks of immigration driving down inflation by increasing the labour supply, which is essence drives down real wage demands, preventing inflation.In addition many immigrants are willing to work for minimum wage in exchange for a new home in a land where they have hopes of achieving the "American Dream". Both arguments do have their rationale which seems true from their respective perspectives.

[TideFan]

That is my concern, the insurance and taxes.

I was under the impression that where ever you registered your car was where you paid your state taxes. In other words you could only register a automobile in your home state. Is that not true anymore?

[JGibson]

They wanted to Raise Minimum Wage, and Now we all are suffering the consequences! It’s Expensive to live everywhere! If you can’t afford living in The Villages, then you need to rethink your life’s Plan .., PRICES ARE GOING UP IN THE VILLAGES
Or sure the minimum wage is the culprit.

Have you seen how much money has been dumped into the economy since COVID.

It's basic economics.

[bmit16]

Yes, especially homeowners. But what you spend in insurance in Florida, you will save 4 fold in taxes over Ma.

[KAM+6]

I was under the impression that where ever you registered your car was where you paid your state taxes. In other words you could only register a automobile in your home state. Is that not true anymore?

In Massachusetts a car MUST be registered where it is garage otherwise you are not covered it you get in a accident.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I hope you don't believe everything you read. It is expensive to live there at the villages and all of Florida now.and I suppose up there in New York where YOU LIVE is cheap , maybe you should visit Florida some time if your allowed out of the home

[golfing eagles]

and I suppose up there in New York where YOU LIVE is cheap , maybe you should visit Florida some time if your allowed out of the home

He would probably need to disable the ankle bracelet first. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Does immigration drive down inflation?

While the first speaks of immigration increasing the demand for goods and services; the latter speaks of immigration driving down inflation by increasing the labour supply, which is essence drives down real wage demands, preventing inflation.In addition many immigrants are willing to work for minimum wage in exchange for a new home in a land where they have hopes of achieving the "American Dream". Both arguments do have their rationale which seems true from their respective perspectives.
Here we go off on a tangent again. Immigration would drive down labor costs and that would decrease or limit inflation. But, why are we looking at the problem from the viewpoint of the WEALTHY employers? The problem with immigrants is that the US does NOT need or want any more (especially illegal ones that the 1st thing that they do in the US is break our laws.) (They are ILLEGAL.) This means that we as a country do NOT want them. Who are they driving down labor costs for? That is hurting real US citizens that are in the construction industry.
........Real US citizens whose fathers were in the Army and risk their lives. Citizens whose fathers and mothers worked as policemen and women. (As teachers, as nurses, as coaches, as scoutmasters, and etc). The non-real US citizens (aka illegals) - their fathers and mothers worked in some South American country as whatever and many have ZERO skills. They were NOT EDUCATED in the US school system so they speak marginal English. And they did NOT have years of getting the proper shots in school.
Why should these illegals get to compete for a job with a US citizen that may have been in the US Army while they were in the Nicaraguan Army? Fair is fair and the US is overcrowded as it is at 350 million people. US roads and highways, Airline infrastructure, and weak public school system are all OVER STRETCHED with too many people and U S quality of LIFE is in a downward spiral and unable to solve many important problems.
.........The US competes with many other 1st world countries........ and illegal aliens that can't even speak English are only going to make ALL of US society WORSE!

[Papa_lecki]

Does immigration drive down inflation?

While the first speaks of immigration increasing the demand for goods and services; the latter speaks of immigration driving down inflation by increasing the labour supply, which is essence drives down real wage demands, preventing inflation.In addition many immigrants are willing to work for minimum wage in exchange for a new home in a land where they have hopes of achieving the "American Dream". Both arguments do have their rationale which seems true from their respective perspectives.

LEGAL, organized, planned immigration does.

[jimjamuser]

They wanted to Raise Minimum Wage, and Now we all are suffering the consequences! It’s Expensive to live everywhere! If you can’t afford living in The Villages, then you need to rethink your life’s Plan .., PRICES ARE GOING UP IN THE VILLAGES
Why does the minimum wage get raised? Ordinary people/workers look at the life that the top US 1% has and asks why did the rich get a tax break and NOT the poor? Why give a special tax break to the Zuckerbergs, Bezos, and Elon Musks of the world? The prior admin made that happen! Ordinary people have NOT gotten a minimum wage increase in over 30 years. Finally, recently, the job market has begun to favor the worker and they can and will ask for more wages. (unfortunately, a recession may be in the future, which would erase the worker's gains.)
......Please, try to feel good about the ordinary worker FINALLY being in a position of having some TRIVIAL POWER.

[golfing eagles]

Why does the minimum wage get raised? Ordinary people/workers look at the life that the top US 1% has and asks why did the rich get a tax break and NOT the poor? Why give a special tax break to the Zuckerbergs, Bezos, and Elon Musks of the world? The prior admin made that happen! Ordinary people have NOT gotten a minimum wage increase in over 30 years. Finally, recently, the job market has begun to favor the worker and they can and will ask for more wages. (unfortunately, a recession may be in the future, which would erase the worker's gains.)
......Please, try to feel good about the ordinary worker FINALLY being in a position of having some TRIVIAL POWER.

Just what "tax break" would that be????

The top 1% of earners paid 40% of all income tax collected in 2018

The top 10% paid 68%

and the top 53% paid 100% of all income tax

So maybe those "ordinary workers" can climb the ladder and start paying THEIR "fair share"

[Aces4]

Just what "tax break" would that be????

The top 1% of earners paid 40% of all income tax collected in 2018

The top 10% paid 68%

and the top 53% paid 100% of all income tax

So maybe those "ordinary workers" can climb the ladder and start paying THEIR "fair share"

You know you are ruining his gospel with facts, don’t you?:clap2:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Just what "tax break" would that be????

The top 1% of earners paid 40% of all income tax collected in 2018

The top 10% paid 68%

and the top 53% paid 100% of all income tax

So maybe those "ordinary workers" can climb the ladder and start paying THEIR "fair share"

Well then let's go the other way around. The lowest income that actually pays tax, is taxed at an 18% rate. That lowest income gets the standard deduction, because they don't earn enough to itemize.

Let's apply that to ALL income earners. EVERYONE pays 18%, and none of them get to itemize. Standard deduction only.

I'm okay with that.

[tuccillo]

No, 10%. BTW, I take the standard deduction, as do many people unless you have a mortgage. 90% of tax payers take the standard deduction.

Well then let's go the other way around. The lowest income that actually pays tax, is taxed at an 18% rate. That lowest income gets the standard deduction, because they don't earn enough to itemize.

Let's apply that to ALL income earners. EVERYONE pays 18%, and none of them get to itemize. Standard deduction only.

I'm okay with that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No, 10%. BTW, I take the standard deduction, as do many people unless you have a mortgage. 90% of tax payers take the standard deduction.

10% is fine too. Make all the uber wealthy - that other 10% of taxpayers, take the standard deduction, and pay 10%.

Good luck convincing anyone to pass THAT through senate and congress though. The top 5% of wealth in this country itemize enough that their tax obligation is much less than 10%, and some of them pay nothing at all in taxes.

So sure - bring it on. 10% tax, with standard deduction ONLY, no more itemizing at all, for everyone.

[tuccillo]

Doubtful. One way to drive your tax rate down is to not have W-2 income but realize capital gains since the tax rate is typically lower than W-2 income. For example, Elon Musk typically has no tax liability since he has no W-2 income. However, when he does sell stock he does pay a lot of tax - $11 billion is 2021. Max capital gains rate is 20% (can be up to 28% for some assets). Regardless, the upper 10% basically pay the vast majority of the taxes. Look it up or read post #123.

10% is fine too. Make all the uber wealthy - that other 10% of taxpayers, take the standard deduction, and pay 10%. IMO, we would be better off with a consumption tax - you buy stuff, you pay tax, with some provision to reduce the regressive nature.

Good luck convincing anyone to pass THAT through senate and congress though. The top 5% of wealth in this country itemize enough that their tax obligation is much less than 10%, and some of them pay nothing at all in taxes.

So sure - bring it on. 10% tax, with standard deduction ONLY, no more itemizing at all, for everyone.

[golfing eagles]

Well then let's go the other way around. The lowest income that actually pays tax, is taxed at an 18% rate. That lowest income gets the standard deduction, because they don't earn enough to itemize.

Let's apply that to ALL income earners. EVERYONE pays 18%, and none of them get to itemize. Standard deduction only.

I'm okay with that.

You mean the lowest income that actually pays income tax, since the lowest 47% PAY NOTHING

And the 47.1th percentile actually pays closer to 6% on average, depending on kids/age, etc

[golfing eagles]

10% is fine too. Make all the uber wealthy - that other 10% of taxpayers, take the standard deduction, and pay 10%.

Good luck convincing anyone to pass THAT through senate and congress though. The top 5% of wealth in this country itemize enough that their tax obligation is much less than 10%, and some of them pay nothing at all in taxes.

So sure - bring it on. 10% tax, with standard deduction ONLY, no more itemizing at all, for everyone.

Again, statistics from the IRS---THE TOP 1% OF ALL EARNERS PAY 40% OF ALL INCOME TAXES.

[rustyp]

Again, statistics from the IRS---THE TOP 1% OF ALL EARNERS PAY 40% OF ALL INCOME TAXES.

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.

[golfing eagles]

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????

[tuccillo]

You mean the ones who worked hard, invested money (i.e. took financial risks), and started new companies that developed innovative goods and services, as well as jobs, for the other 99% ?

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.

[Laker14]

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????

Well that's a tad over-generalized.
When the former president who brags about his great wealth, which he estimates at "several billion" is found to have paid $750 in taxes one might wonder about a few things,

1. a billion dollars invested in a 2% CD, (you don't have to be to be a stable genius to find that rate of return in "the world's greatest economy") would generate 40 MILLION dollars. That's ONE billion invested that way. $750 on 40 Million is a tax rate of
.001875%. Now that is a nice tax rate, isn't it?

2. why do we tax income instead of wealth? Because the wealthiest people make the rules, so a father of three, working 60 hours a week who seldom gets to see his kids because his life is evaporating while he's working so hard making 200K,, gets taxed at 40%, while a multi-billionaire who lifts not a finger to make 40MILLION in invested income has a tax rate of .001875%....

Yeah, it's great to be the ones with the power to make the rules.

[rustyp]

Again, statistics from the IRS---THE TOP 1% OF ALL EARNERS PAY 40% OF ALL INCOME TAXES.

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????

I don't have a dog in this fight. Just illustrating how easy it is to cherry pick.

[golfing eagles]

Well that's a tad over-generalized.
When the former president who brags about his great wealth, which he estimates at "several billion" is found to have paid $750 in taxes one might wonder about a few things,

1. a billion dollars invested in a 2% CD, (you don't have to be to be a stable genius to find that rate of return in "the world's greatest economy") would generate 40 MILLION dollars. That's ONE billion invested that way. $750 on 40 Million is a tax rate of
.001875%. Now that is a nice tax rate, isn't it?

2. why do we tax income instead of wealth? Because the wealthiest people make the rules, so a father of three, working 60 hours a week who seldom gets to see his kids because his life is evaporating while he's working so hard making 200K,, gets taxed at 40%, while a multi-billionaire who lifts not a finger to make 40MILLION in invested income has a tax rate of .001875%....

Yeah, it's great to be the ones with the power to make the rules.

Speaking of over-generalizations-------WOW

Since that top 1% pays 40% of all income tax, do you really think they average a tax rate of .001875%????? Really?????

Those numbers are just talking points for class warfare and socialistic thinking. I would either tax the 47% at some low rate, even if it is only $10, so at least they have some skin in the game. Alternatively, a constitutional amendment that limits the vote to net taxpayers. If you pay nothing, you can pretty much guarantee you will vote for those that promise you the most "freebies" (ie: other people's money)

[golfing eagles]

I don't have a dog in this fight. Just illustrating how easy it is to cherry pick.

The top 1% paying 40% of all income tax is NOT "cherry picking", it is a fact directly from the IRS.

[dewilson58]

2. why do we tax income instead of wealth?
.

Could be because the base wealth as been taxed already and will probably be taxed again at death. Maybe.

[rustyp]

Again, statistics from the IRS---THE TOP 1% OF ALL EARNERS PAY 40% OF ALL INCOME TAXES.

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????

The top 1% paying 40% of all income tax is NOT "cherry picking", it is a fact directly from the IRS.

Cherry picking does not mean the statistic is false. It is a common technique to support one point of view without giving equal weight to the entire context.

[golfing eagles]

2. why do we tax income instead of wealth?

In addition to the fact that "wealth" is already taxed at least once if not more:

Person A scrimps and saves, makes prudent choices, lives within their means and accumulates some degree of "wealth". Maybe to enjoy retirement, maybe to pass something on to their kids, but in either case have been responsible citizens.

Person B spends every penny they ever earn---has impulse buying, gets sports cars, a house they can't afford, runs up credit cards and saves nothing, relying on social security and the good will of others when they stop working.

So who is rewarded and who is screwed by a "wealth tax"??? Fair???? I don't think so.

[dewilson58]

Cherry picking does not mean the statistic is false. It is a common technique to support one point of view without giving equal weight to the entire context.

The "entire context":

top 1% paying 40% of all income tax

bottom 99% paying 60% of all income tax.

:coolsmiley:

[golfing eagles]

Cherry picking does not mean the statistic is false. It is a common technique to support one point of view without giving equal weight to the entire context.

OK, here's the context:

Who is paying a hugely disproportionate share of the tax burden?????

It is not a "point of view", it is a FACT

[rustyp]

OK, here's the context:

Who is paying a hugely disproportionate share of the tax burden?????

It is not a "point of view", it is a FACT

Null hypothesis - Who is paying their disproportionate share of the tax burden ?

[golfing eagles]

Null hypothesis - Who is paying their disproportionate share of the tax burden ?

Interesting. Here's the definition of a null hypothesis:

The null hypothesis states there is no relationship between the measured phenomenon (the dependent variable) and the independent variable.

So, how does this apply to THE FACT that the top 1% pay 40% of income taxes? What are the two variables????? No sale.

[jimjamuser]

Just what "tax break" would that be????

The top 1% of earners paid 40% of all income tax collected in 2018

The top 10% paid 68%

and the top 53% paid 100% of all income tax

So maybe those "ordinary workers" can climb the ladder and start paying THEIR "fair share"
Just compare the tax brackets and tax % of today to those of 1950 (when the middle class was KING). And it is easy to see that upper-income taxpayers control the US. In other words, fewer and FEWER people (the upper 1%) are controlling everything in the US. As less and less people have more and more power.......WHAT DO YOU END UP WITH.........a dictatorship like Hitlers or the current Russian despot. America is headed that way, I hope smart people like the other poster realize this simple fact.

[golfing eagles]

Just compare the tax brackets and tax % of today to those of 1950 (when the middle class was KING). And it is easy to see that upper-income taxpayers control the US. In other words, fewer and FEWER people (the upper 1%) are controlling everything in the US. As less and less people have more and more power.......WHAT DO YOU END UP WITH.........a dictatorship like Hitlers or the current Russian despot. America is headed that way, I hope smart people like the other poster realize this simple fact.

Nice post (not)---why am I not surprised

[jimjamuser]

10% is fine too. Make all the uber wealthy - that other 10% of taxpayers, take the standard deduction, and pay 10%.

Good luck convincing anyone to pass THAT through senate and congress though. The top 5% of wealth in this country itemize enough that their tax obligation is much less than 10%, and some of them pay nothing at all in taxes.

So sure - bring it on. 10% tax, with standard deduction ONLY, no more itemizing at all, for everyone.
A flat tax is also something that would be enjoyed by the uber-rich. The only fair federal tax system WAS AND I DO MEAN WAS.......the TRUE PROGRESSIVE tax system used by the US of A in the 1950s. Note to those who don't know what progressive means.......it means that those with the higher income pay a bigger tax % than those with lower incomes. It is the American fair way ..........and it is DEAD today.........Look at the Zuckerbergs and Bezos. They are the beginning of rich industrial fascists that have taken over America.

[dewilson58]

..Look at the Zuckerbergs and Bezos. They are the beginning of rich industrial fascists that have taken over America.

Bezos paid $1.5 BILLION in fed taxes...........how much more do you want him to pay??

Might be a low %, but it's still $1.5 BILLION.

:popcorn::popcorn:

All I can say is, Thank You Mr. B.

[golfing eagles]

A flat tax is also something that would be enjoyed by the uber-rich. The only fair federal tax system WAS AND I DO MEAN WAS.......the TRUE PROGRESSIVE tax system used by the US of A in the 1950s. Note to those who don't know what progressive means.......it means that those with the higher income pay a bigger tax % than those with lower incomes. It is the American fair way ..........and it is DEAD today.........Look at the Zuckerbergs and Bezos. They are the beginning of rich industrial fascists that have taken over America.

Our progressive tax is ANYTHING BUT "FAIR" . It punishes success, it is Robin Hood socialism taking away from those who worked to succeed and handing it over to those who contributed nothing. It rewards failure and laziness at the expense of those that have contributed. How many people do those "rich industrial fascists" employ??? How much do they contribute to charities. And how many are employed by the 47% that pay nothing and live off the government teat?

[golfing eagles]

Bezos paid $1.5 BILLION in fed taxes...........how much more do you want him to pay??

Might be a low %, but it's still $1.5 BILLION.

:popcorn::popcorn:

All I can say is, Thank You Mr. B.

Thank you. And that's the fallacy of those who want them to pay even more---We don't pay our bills in "percentage points". Federal employees don't deposit "percentages" every week. We pay in DOLLARS, and 1.5 billion is plenty of them. Geez, the mentality of those that think they deserve a piece of his pie simply because they were born.

[Laker14]

Could be because the base wealth as been taxed already and will probably be taxed again at death. Maybe.

keep dreaming.

[dewilson58]

keep dreaming.

Not dreaming........How was the base wealth generated & not taxed???

Don't give minor exceptions...........explain how the vast majority of the base wealth was not taxed.

I'm curious.

Exclude paper wealth.

[jimjamuser]

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.
True that and ANY country WITHOUT WEALTH for the average middle-class citizen is a country that probably will NOT EXIST in about 3 more years. Middle-class wealth brings stability and peace to a nation. Lack of middle-class WEALTH brings CHAOS and instability to any country.

[jimjamuser]

Doubtful. One way to drive your tax rate down is to not have W-2 income but realize capital gains since the tax rate is typically lower than W-2 income. For example, Elon Musk typically has no tax liability since he has no W-2 income. However, when he does sell stock he does pay a lot of tax - $11 billion is 2021. Max capital gains rate is 20% (can be up to 28% for some assets). Regardless, the upper 10% basically pay the vast majority of the taxes. Look it up or read post #123.
And WHY is "the capital gains rate typically lower"? Because the RICH lawyer-Congress-people voted to RETAIN their own richness at the expense of the middle-class and stability for the US as a country. That is WHY the US had a strong middle-class in the 40s through about 1975, but then the RICH politicians started nibbling away at the middle-class. Industrial factories move away from the Northeast to the South in order to AVOID unions, then moved to Mexico, then moved to Vietnam, and eventually China.
.......So, HUMOROUSLY, to avoid those TERRIBLE THINGS called UNIONS, we made our potential enemy, China, VERY RICH. Way to go Washington geniuses.

[jimjamuser]

And that same 1% owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Statistic from the Federal Reserve.
Great point!

[jimjamuser]

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????
Successful is NOT the problem. The PROBLEM begins when the successful decide that they need MORE than just success............they decide that they need POWER - and as we ALL KNOW - POWER corrupts. SO, SINCE 1975, the US has lost its unions, its middle class, and all for the objective of placing POWER in the hands of fewer and fewer people - until today the US is fighting chaos, RUNAWAY greed, and the DISTINCT possibility of LOSING its hard fought for and successful American system of FREEDOM. Once you lose it, it never comes back......just talk to the Russians.

[jimjamuser]

So what???? Is that a reason to punish success?? And in turn give it away to losers????
lower-income people are NOT LOSERS. They have fought all the wars that the US has engaged in (many started by the wealthy for greed and more government contracts). Lower income people are considered NOBLE people in most CARING societies. Try going to Finland and knocking lower income people as losers. They will NOT buy that pathetic BS.
.......Lower income people do ALL the hard, difficult jobs in EVERY country on this planet. They will NOT be called LOSERS BY ME.

[JMintzer]

10% is fine too. Make all the uber wealthy - that other 10% of taxpayers, take the standard deduction, and pay 10%.

Good luck convincing anyone to pass THAT through senate and congress though. The top 5% of wealth in this country itemize enough that their tax obligation is much less than 10%, and some of them pay nothing at all in taxes.

So sure - bring it on. 10% tax, with standard deduction ONLY, no more itemizing at all, for everyone.

Not true. See the chart in this article:

Here'''s What the Average American Pays in Federal Income Taxes | The Motley Fool (https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/10/31/heres-what-the-average-american-pays-in-taxes.aspx)

INCOME RANGE (AGI). AVERAGE TAX LIABILITY EFFECTIVE TAX RATE (% OF AGI)

$1 to $25,000 $208 1.7%

$25,000 to $50,000 $1,871 5.2%

$50,000 to $100,000. $6,251 8.7%

$100,000 to $200,000. $16,977 12.6%

$200,000 to $500,000 $55,536 19.5%

$500,000 to $1 million $173,678 25.8%

$1 million to $10 million $632,146 29%

$10 million and above $7,884,775. 26.1%

Overall average $9,118 13.9%

[JMintzer]

///Double Post...

[jimjamuser]

Well that's a tad over-generalized.
When the former president who brags about his great wealth, which he estimates at "several billion" is found to have paid $750 in taxes one might wonder about a few things,

1. a billion dollars invested in a 2% CD, (you don't have to be to be a stable genius to find that rate of return in "the world's greatest economy") would generate 40 MILLION dollars. That's ONE billion invested that way. $750 on 40 Million is a tax rate of
.001875%. Now that is a nice tax rate, isn't it?

2. why do we tax income instead of wealth? Because the wealthiest people make the rules, so a father of three, working 60 hours a week who seldom gets to see his kids because his life is evaporating while he's working so hard making 200K,, gets taxed at 40%, while a multi-billionaire who lifts not a finger to make 40MILLION in invested income has a tax rate of .001875%....

Yeah, it's great to be the ones with the power to make the rules.
That is a VERY impressive post!

[JMintzer]

Well then let's go the other way around. The lowest income that actually pays tax, is taxed at an 18% rate. That lowest income gets the standard deduction, because they don't earn enough to itemize.

Let's apply that to ALL income earners. EVERYONE pays 18%, and none of them get to itemize. Standard deduction only.

I'm okay with that.

That 18% is the MARGINAL rate, not the EFFECTIVE rate...

They actually (effectively) pay NOTHING...

[jimjamuser]

Speaking of over-generalizations-------WOW

Since that top 1% pays 40% of all income tax, do you really think they average a tax rate of .001875%????? Really?????

Those numbers are just talking points for class warfare and socialistic thinking. I would either tax the 47% at some low rate, even if it is only $10, so at least they have some skin in the game. Alternatively, a constitutional amendment that limits the vote to net taxpayers. If you pay nothing, you can pretty much guarantee you will vote for those that promise you the most "freebies" (ie: other people's money)
OK, now it looks like some are suggesting a method to LIMIT VOTERS. Sort of sounds like a POLL TAX to me. Are we now to go BACKWARD in time about 60 years to POLL TAX? Why are the rich SO AFRAID of VOTERS that they want to ALWAYS find ways to deny VOTING. I thought that I lived in America, land of the FREE (and FREE to VOTE).

[JMintzer]

Just compare the tax brackets and tax % of today to those of 1950 (when the middle class was KING). And it is easy to see that upper-income taxpayers control the US. In other words, fewer and FEWER people (the upper 1%) are controlling everything in the US. As less and less people have more and more power.......WHAT DO YOU END UP WITH.........a dictatorship like Hitlers or the current Russian despot. America is headed that way, I hope smart people like the other poster realize this simple fact.

I've explained that "factoid" many times.

Yes, the "MARGINAL" tax rates were higher, but there were SOOOO may deductions that the "EFFECTIVE" rates they were paying back then were LOWER that what they pay now...

I've cited articles, links to prove this. Yet you continue to ignore the facts and post the same nonsense over and over again...

[JMintzer]

A flat tax is also something that would be enjoyed by the uber-rich. The only fair federal tax system WAS AND I DO MEAN WAS.......the TRUE PROGRESSIVE tax system used by the US of A in the 1950s. Note to those who don't know what progressive means.......it means that those with the higher income pay a bigger tax % than those with lower incomes. It is the American fair way ..........and it is DEAD today.........Look at the Zuckerbergs and Bezos. They are the beginning of rich industrial fascists that have taken over America.

We have a progressive tax system...

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/styles/original_optimized/public/book_images/3.1.5.t1.png

[jimjamuser]

In addition to the fact that "wealth" is already taxed at least once if not more:

Person A scrimps and saves, makes prudent choices, lives within their means and accumulates some degree of "wealth". Maybe to enjoy retirement, maybe to pass something on to their kids, but in either case have been responsible citizens.

Person B spends every penny they ever earn---has impulse buying, gets sports cars, a house they can't afford, runs up credit cards and saves nothing, relying on social security and the good will of others when they stop working.

So who is rewarded and who is screwed by a "wealth tax"??? Fair???? I don't think so.
Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

[JMintzer]

Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

But your beloved Scandinavian countries all have a VAT...

Sweden, Finland and Denmark all at 24-25%...

Value Added Tax Rates (VAT) By Country | Tax Foundation (https://taxfoundation.org/publications/value-added-tax-rates-vat-by-country/)

[golfing eagles]

Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

Not punishing----making them pay their fair share. Again, why do some believe they deserve a share of other people's money, achievements and success just because they were born????? You want something---go out and EARN it. Instead, we've creating and entire culture of handouts. We even go out of the way to conceal this---for example EBT cards. Why---because they felt pulling out those old food stamps at the grocery checkout was "embarrassing". Good--let them be embarrassed. Maybe it would be an incentive to get off welfare. When welfare was started in the 30's as part of the "new deal", it was a social safety net to prevent starvation in the streets. You got a subsistence living, no more---a cold water flat, a ticket to the government bread and cheese line, no radio, no telephone, no luxuries. Those people would take ANY job to get off "the dole". It was a social stigma and so it should have remained. Instead, we now have 4th generation recipients. And what's worse, they expect it and believe they "deserve" it.

[jimjamuser]

OK, here's the context:

Who is paying a hugely disproportionate share of the tax burden?????

It is not a "point of view", it is a FACT
You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

[Aces4]

lower-income people are NOT LOSERS. They have fought all the wars that the US has engaged in (many started by the wealthy for greed and more government contracts). Lower income people are considered NOBLE people in most CARING societies. Try going to Finland and knocking lower income people as losers. They will NOT buy that pathetic BS.
.......Lower income people do ALL the hard, difficult jobs in EVERY country on this planet. They will NOT be called LOSERS BY ME.

Lol, Finland? How they got in the middle of this, sigh…

Anyway, if’s it’s Communist China people desire, one may apply for citizenship. Keep killing incentive in this country and the country will soon look worse than Portland.

[JMintzer]

You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

Public schools are flush with cash... They simply mismanage the $$$, lining their own pockets, rather than spend it on the students...

[golfing eagles]

You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

Thankfully, factual reality trumps "what you say"

[jimjamuser]

Thank you. And that's the fallacy of those who want them to pay even more---We don't pay our bills in "percentage points". Federal employees don't deposit "percentages" every week. We pay in DOLLARS, and 1.5 billion is plenty of them. Geez, the mentality of those that think they deserve a piece of his pie simply because they were born.
They DON'T deserve it by simply being born. They deserve it because they earned RESPECT by being low level Sargents and enlisted men and women in ALL branches of the US military. I say RESPECT them. And RESPECT the low-ranking police patrolmen and women. Respect the low-paid staff of workers in every hospital in the USA. Respect the dog walkers and the UBER drivers and taxi drivers. Respect the staff in a Hospice that cleans the bed pans and deals with end-of-life problems.
.......Respect ALL the low-paid WORKERS that make America WORK and get little attention and barely survive in an economy where their protectors - the worker unions have been for all practical purposes PUT TO DEATH in today's economy. But Wall Street enTRAPanors seem to be THRIVING. And, will they be so cocky and self-assured when they get old and need their bed-pans changed by some lowly hospital WORKERS?

[golfing eagles]

They DON'T deserve it by simply being born. They deserve it because they earned RESPECT by being low level Sargents and enlisted men and women in ALL branches of the US military. I say RESPECT them. And RESPECT the low-ranking police patrolmen and women. Respect the low-paid staff of workers in every hospital in the USA. Respect the dog walkers and the UBER drivers and taxi drivers. Respect the staff in a Hospice that cleans the bed pans and deals with end-of-life problems.
.......Respect ALL the low-paid WORKERS that make America WORK and get little attention and barely survive in an economy where their protectors - the worker unions have been for all practical purposes PUT TO DEATH in today's economy. But Wall Street enTRAPanors seem to be THRIVING. And, will they be so cocky and self-assured when they get old and need their bed-pans changed by some lowly hospital WORKERS?

I'm not talking about workers---they do deserve respect. I'm talking about those who choose not to work and instead live off the government teat (ie: the rest of us). This does not include the disabled who cannot work. However, I would never define alcoholism or drug addiction as a "disability"----I could certainly find something for them to do. It does , however, specifically refer to able bodied individuals who could work, but instead choose to run scams, or deal drugs, or have 6 children by 6 different fathers then lay all day on the couch watching Oprah. Believe me, I can find work for them---they won't like it, but I'd find it.

[rustyp]

Not dreaming........How was the base wealth generated & not taxed???

Don't give minor exceptions...........explain how the vast majority of the base wealth was not taxed.

I'm curious.

Exclude paper wealth.

Look up "step basis at death".

[jimjamuser]

Not punishing----making them pay their fair share. Again, why do some believe they deserve a share of other people's money, achievements and success just because they were born????? You want something---go out and EARN it. Instead, we've creating and entire culture of handouts. We even go out of the way to conceal this---for example EBT cards. Why---because they felt pulling out those old food stamps at the grocery checkout was "embarrassing". Good--let them be embarrassed. Maybe it would be an incentive to get off welfare. When welfare was started in the 30's as part of the "new deal", it was a social safety net to prevent starvation in the streets. You got a subsistence living, no more---a cold water flat, a ticket to the government bread and cheese line, no radio, no telephone, no luxuries. Those people would take ANY job to get off "the dole". It was a social stigma and so it should have remained. Instead, we now have 4th generation recipients. And what's worse, they expect it and believe they "deserve" it.
It is TRUE that NO system is perfect. So, there will be abusers of ANY system. Welfare, started in the 30s was a COMPASSIONATE method of SPREADING America's GREAT WEALTH around to all citizens. In general, success in life has MANY more variables than MERELY hard work. Yard maintenance people today work HARD, but they are NEVER likely to be economically successful. There are many other factors, not just hard work that determines economic success. Who are your parents? How is your HEALTH? What DNA have your parents given to you? What is your IQ. Motivation - some people have high motivation, others lower. Were you ABLE to afford college? We mentioned today that other than sports stars, only rich children of rich parents can afford most colleges. Do you have a teenage criminal violation? Then maybe you can't EVEN get into the military. How hard would that be to come back from..........less than 1% can probably ever do that?
......If you are successful and rich today, then you probably enjoyed MANY advantages. It is NOT just hard work that determines a person's wealth status!

[tuccillo]

Because the money is at risk and you should be rewarded for taking the risk. If it was up to me, capital gains would be taxed at 0% for all capital gains instead of the first $80K or so. Try to stay on point, I know it is difficult for you.

And WHY is "the capital gains rate typically lower"? Because the RICH lawyer-Congress-people voted to RETAIN their own richness at the expense of the middle-class and stability for the US as a country. That is WHY the US had a strong middle-class in the 40s through about 1975, but then the RICH politicians started nibbling away at the middle-class. Industrial factories move away from the Northeast to the South in order to AVOID unions, then moved to Mexico, then moved to Vietnam, and eventually China.
.......So, HUMOROUSLY, to avoid those TERRIBLE THINGS called UNIONS, we made our potential enemy, China, VERY RICH. Way to go Washington geniuses.

[jimjamuser]

I'm not talking about workers---they do deserve respect. I'm talking about those who choose not to work and instead live off the government teat (ie: the rest of us). This does not include the disabled who cannot work. However, I would never define alcoholism or drug addiction as a "disability"----I could certainly find something for them to do. It does , however, specifically refer to able bodied individuals who could work, but instead choose to run scams, or deal drugs, or have 6 children by 6 different fathers then lay all day on the couch watching Oprah. Believe me, I can find work for them---they won't like it, but I'd find it.
We all realize that TODAY in the US our most productive workforce........the aged 25 to 45 has been DECIMATED AND ARE LITERALLY DEAD because of the Fentanyl scourge and curse! many of these DEAD are white-collar CAPTAINS of industry. No wonder the unemployment figure is low. Someone needed to move upward to fill those positions vacated by the DEAD Fentanyl users. These people will NEVER get a chance to retire!
........And to retire to a place like The Village when they could, hopefully, afford a nice house and active life.
........Part of the reason for these Fentanyl deaths is the pressure on college graduates to succeed in the economy. Some try to medicate (with a deadly drug) the pressure away. That pressure is because there is NO natural middle class anymore in the US. Due to UNIONS being destroyed and colleges being too expensive for average people. These Fentanyl deaths are almost like the situation in ancient ROME when the Romans became increasingly decadent.
.......As to what is affordable, like a Village retirement life - a lot depends on the whole US economic society having a strong middle class that can make it through that age 25 to 45 period without resorting to KILLER DRUGS. A stronger middle class makes a stronger Village retirement enterprise, which contributes to a stronger America!

[golfing eagles]

It is TRUE that NO system is perfect. So, there will be abusers of ANY system. Welfare, started in the 30s was a COMPASSIONATE method of SPREADING America's GREAT WEALTH around to all citizens. In general, success in life has MANY more variables than MERELY hard work. Yard maintenance people today work HARD, but they are NEVER likely to be economically successful. There are many other factors, not just hard work that determines economic success. Who are your parents? How is your HEALTH? What DNA have your parents given to you? What is your IQ. Motivation - some people have high motivation, others lower. Were you ABLE to afford college? We mentioned today that other than sports stars, only rich children of rich parents can afford most colleges. Do you have a teenage criminal violation? Then maybe you can't EVEN get into the military. How hard would that be to come back from..........less than 1% can probably ever do that?
......If you are successful and rich today, then you probably enjoyed MANY advantages. It is NOT just hard work that determines a person's wealth status!

And therein lies the heart of the argument-----WHY should we "spread around the wealth"??? WHY should it be taken away from those that earned it and given to those who didn't??? News flash---this is America, not the old communist Soviet Union.

[golfing eagles]

We all realize that TODAY in the US our most productive workforce........the aged 25 to 45 has been DECIMATED AND ARE LITERALLY DEAD because of the Fentanyl scourge and curse! many of these DEAD are white-collar CAPTAINS of industry. No wonder the unemployment figure is low. Someone needed to move upward to fill those positions vacated by the DEAD Fentanyl users. These people will NEVER get a chance to retire!
........And to retire to a place like The Village when they could, hopefully, afford a nice house and active life.
........Part of the reason for these Fentanyl deaths is the pressure on college graduates to succeed in the economy. Some try to medicate (with a deadly drug) the pressure away. That pressure is because there is NO natural middle class anymore in the US. Due to UNIONS being destroyed and colleges being too expensive for average people. These Fentanyl deaths are almost like the situation in ancient ROME when the Romans became increasingly decadent.
.......As to what is affordable, like a Village retirement life - a lot depends on the whole US economic society having a strong middle class that can make it through that age 25 to 45 period without resorting to KILLER DRUGS. A stronger middle class makes a stronger Village retirement enterprise, which contributes to a stronger America!

Now you're way off topic---but----who went around and forced fentanyl down the throats of these addicts????

"decimated the middle class"?---As you know, I absolutely hate confusing you with the facts, but.....
According to the census bureau there are 88.89 million Americans age 25-45
According to the CDC, 54,750 Americans of all ages die from fentanyl OD each year

So, even if every death was age 25-45, which it isn't, that is 0.06% of that demographic----hardly what I would call "decimated"

[dewilson58]

Look up "step basis at death".

That's funny.

SO, my original question: How was the base wealth generated & not taxed?? So how was the dead person's wealth generated without taxation???

[dewilson58]

We have a progressive tax system...

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/styles/original_optimized/public/book_images/3.1.5.t1.png

That is the definition of progressive.

[rustyp]

And therein lies the heart of the argument-----WHY should we "spread around the wealth"??? WHY should it be taken away from those that earned it and given to those who didn't??? News flash---this is America, not the old communist Soviet Union.

Why spread the wealth ? Maybe because we all weren't dealt the same hand.

[Kenswing]

Why spread the wealth ? Maybe because we all weren't dealt the same hand.

What a crock. I grew up in poverty. Parents couldn’t afford to send me to college so I joined the military. Went to night school on base to earn an associates degree. After the military I went to work for a company that offered tuition assistance and received my bachelor’s degree. Went on to own two very successful businesses which I sold for a nice profit. Retired at 57 and am living very comfortably.
Please explain to me what great hand I was dealt.

[rustyp]

What a crock. I grew up in poverty. Parents couldn’t afford to send me to college so I joined the military. Went to night school on base to earn an associates degree. After the military I went to work for a company that offered tuition assistance and received my bachelor’s degree. Went on to own two very successful businesses which I sold for a nice profit. Retired at 57 and am living very comfortably.
Please explain to me what great hand I was dealt.

Did you spend half your teenage years in an iron lung ? Did you have to work to support your parents ? Did you have to raise your siblings ? Did you have to flee your home with nothing but the clothes on your back ? Do you have scares from being abused ? The list goes on ! Yea tell me about that bad hand you were dealt. I say you were dealt a mediocre hand but played it well.

[golfing eagles]

Why spread the wealth ? Maybe because we all weren't dealt the same hand.

no kidding. So what?????

[JMintzer]

That is the definition of progressive.

Unfortunately, you reposting it is the only way he'll see my posts.

He seems to have me on his ignore list...

Either that, or he's completely given up arguing the facts I throw at him, by answering with more nonsense... Which is doubtful, since it never stopped him in the past...

[JMintzer]

Why spread the wealth ? Maybe because we all weren't dealt the same hand.

Such is life. Sounds like you want equity of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity...

[Laker14]

What a crock. I grew up in poverty. Parents couldn’t afford to send me to college so I joined the military. Went to night school on base to earn an associates degree. After the military I went to work for a company that offered tuition assistance and received my bachelor’s degree. Went on to own two very successful businesses which I sold for a nice profit. Retired at 57 and am living very comfortably.
Please explain to me what great hand I was dealt.

Are you white? did you have a good public school education growing up? Did you have two parents who loved you and were good role models? Did you have food on your table growing up? Did you have good health?

[jimjamuser]

And therein lies the heart of the argument-----WHY should we "spread around the wealth"??? WHY should it be taken away from those that earned it and given to those who didn't??? News flash---this is America, not the old communist Soviet Union.
If you don't "spread around the wealth" then practically by definition the wealth of a country ends up in the hands of FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE until ultimately you do have a fascist system like the Soviet Union or Russia today. Spreading the wealth around is actually the American way to freedom from the fascist dictators!

[jimjamuser]

Now you're way off topic---but----who went around and forced fentanyl down the throats of these addicts????

"decimated the middle class"?---As you know, I absolutely hate confusing you with the facts, but.....
According to the census bureau there are 88.89 million Americans age 25-45
According to the CDC, 54,750 Americans of all ages die from fentanyl OD each year

So, even if every death was age 25-45, which it isn't, that is 0.06% of that demographic----hardly what I would call "decimated"
1st ever decrease in a demographic group in America. It is historic. There will be fewer white-collar retirees available to relocate to retirement areas like the Villages in the FUTURE.

[jimjamuser]

no kidding. So what?????
Because society needs to be compassionate and the best way to do that is to have a large, strong middle class which we are lacking today and it started about 1975. And if we don't self-correct the US experiment will end in chaos and fascism.

[golfing eagles]

1st ever decrease in a demographic group in America. It is historic. There will be fewer white-collar retirees available to relocate to retirement areas like the Villages in the FUTURE.

I was wrong-----apparently THE FACTS don't confuse, they just bounce off like water off a duck

[golfing eagles]

Because society needs to be compassionate and the best way to do that is to have a large, strong middle class which we are lacking today and it started about 1975. And if we don't self-correct the US experiment will end in chaos and fascism.

Uh huh. And I'm still waiting for chocolate from the Easter Bunny. Welcome to Fantasyland.

[jimjamuser]

I was wrong-----apparently THE FACTS don't confuse, they just bounce off like water off a duck
I am willing to let readers and posters and even History determine just who the "quack" is.

[golfing eagles]

I am willing to let readers and posters and even History determine just who the "quack" is.

I guess some people will never get it----the FACTS are the FACTS

[jimjamuser]

Uh huh. And I'm still waiting for chocolate from the Easter Bunny. Welcome to Fantasyland.
I had a chocolate bunny when I was growing up because my father belonged to a UNION and our family was solidly middle class. And because of the Union the whole town had a good library and the PUBLIC SCHOOLS were great and many parents could afford to send their children to Colleges. And I know for a fact that several became Medical Doctors........all owing great childhood and adult education and experience to the fact that UNIONS stood up to management and constantly got good benefits for the middle class workers.
.........And every healthy person had a job and was PROUD of their CONTRIBUTIONS to the American way of life. There were maybe one or two winos in town that for some mental problem or another did NOT work. They were totally the exception. It was a work first and hard and come home and enjoy life type of town.
..........But, about 1975 the tax laws began to change to screw the middle class and advantage the upper-class management types. They decided to OFF-SHORE the US middle class jobs. 1st to Mexico, then Vietnam, then China. So, CEOs like Jack Welsh made 300 million dollars per year, while the US middle class evaporated and Chinas middle class blossomed. Ironically, to destroy US unions the Industrial leaders PRODUCED a wealthy, strong China that has become our worst nightmare!
..........incidentally, Germany works fine......... with management and their workers COOPERATING for the good of their company and their nation. So, Unions can work fine if allowed to function in a country where the word.....socialism is NOT a swear word.
.........And imagine if there was a Villages equivalent in Germany, those retired German workers would have zero problems buying a house in that Village. AND they have NATIONAL HEALTH CARE !!!!!!!

[golfing eagles]

I had a chocolate bunny when I was growing up because my father belonged to a UNION and our family was solidly middle class. And because of the Union the whole town had a good library and the PUBLIC SCHOOLS were great and many parents could afford to send their children to Colleges. And I know for a fact that several became Medical Doctors........all owing great childhood and adult education and experience to the fact that UNIONS stood up to management and constantly got good benefits for the middle class workers.
.........And every health person had a job and was PROUD of their CONTRIBUTIONS to the American way of life. There were maybe one or two winos in town that for some mental problem or another did NOT work. They were totally the exception. It was a work first and hard and come home and enjoy life type of town.
..........But, about 1975 the tax laws began to change to screw the middle class and advantage the upper-class management types. They decided to OFF-SHORE the US middle class jobs. 1st to Mexico, then Vietnam, then China. So, CEOs like Jack Welsh made 300 million dollars per year, while the US middle class evaporated and Chinas middle class blossomed. Ironically, to destroy US unions the Industrial leaders PRODUCED a wealthy, strong China that has become our worst nightmare!
..........incidentally, Germany works fine with management and their workers COOPERATING for the good of their company and their nation. So, Unions can work fine if allowed to function in a country where the word.....socialism is NOT a swear word.
.........And imagine if there was a Villages equivalent in Germany, those retired German workers would have zero problems buying a house in that Village. AND they have NATIONAL HEALTH CARE !!!!!!!

Sorry to interrupt the union rant with the FACTS, but:

The Urban Institute defines middle class as an adult whose annual household income is 150% to 500% higher than the federal poverty level.4
For 2020, the federal poverty level was $21,720 for a three-person household.5 This meant you were considered middle class if your gross annual income was between $32,580 and $108,600 and you had a household size of three.

This makes 62% of the population middle class and 21% upper class.

[JMintzer]

Sorry to interrupt the union rant with the FACTS, but:

The Urban Institute defines middle class as an adult whose annual household income is 150% to 500% higher than the federal poverty level.4
For 2020, the federal poverty level was $21,720 for a three-person household.5 This meant you were considered middle class if your gross annual income was between $32,580 and $108,600 and you had a household size of three.

This makes 62% of the population middle class and 21% upper class.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-27-2015/yvz04P.gif

[jimjamuser]

Sorry to interrupt the union rant with the FACTS, but:

The Urban Institute defines middle class as an adult whose annual household income is 150% to 500% higher than the federal poverty level.4
For 2020, the federal poverty level was $21,720 for a three-person household.5 This meant you were considered middle class if your gross annual income was between $32,580 and $108,600 and you had a household size of three.

This makes 62% of the population middle class and 21% upper class.
Most people would say that the upper class is the TOP 10% in terms of wealth. But, I don't have a problem with labeling the top 21% as "upper class". But, the important thing about the middle class is that it began to cease to exist at around 1975 with as i said previously - outsourcing of manufacturing to Mexico, Vietnam, and eventually, China. So, unlike Germany, the US cut off its nose to spite its face..........by making China rich and increasing its technology in order to stop US unions from succeeding. Today......unions bad, China good.....how stupid is that?
.....Of course today it is harder than about 1975 for new residents to AFFORD TV Land because after 1975 UNIONS and therefore the US middle class was effectively strangled by changing tax laws to benefit the upper class 10%. Basically, the northern UNION retirement money started flowing into The Villages.....say around 1975 and put TV Land on the map......LITERALLY. Contrast that with today when UNIONS are DEAD and ONLY the upper 10% can afford to move to TV Land. That is how the whole US (and TV Land) has changed in about the last 50 years. So, now I make a value judgment and say that the last 50 years have ALL been BAD in the sense that the POWER in the US shifted from the large numbers of WORKERS to the much smaller numbers of management types. Try to imagine a US Army staffed by ALL UPPER-LEVEL MANAGEMENT TYPES. That would be laughable - they would lose every war. - they could never achieve consensus on ANYTHING......like an ALL-EGGHEAD Army.

[JMintzer]

Most people would say that the upper class is the TOP 10% in terms of wealth. But, I don't have a problem with labeling the top 21% as "upper class". But, the important thing about the middle class is that it began to cease to exist at around 1975 with as i said previously - outsourcing of manufacturing to Mexico, Vietnam, and eventually, China. So, unlike Germany, the US cut off its nose to spite its face..........by making China rich and increasing its technology in order to stop US unions from succeeding. Today......unions bad, China good.....how stupid is that?
.....Of course today it is harder than about 1975 for new residents to AFFORD TV Land because after 1975 UNIONS and therefore the US middle class was effectively strangled by changing tax laws to benefit the upper class 10%. Basically, the northern UNION retirement money started flowing into The Villages.....say around 1975 and put TV Land on the map......LITERALLY. Contrast that with today when UNIONS are DEAD and ONLY the upper 10% can afford to move to TV Land. That is how the whole US (and TV Land) has changed in about the last 50 years. So, now I make a value judgment and say that the last 50 years have ALL been BAD in the sense that the POWER in the US shifted from the large numbers of WORKERS to the much smaller numbers of management types. Try to imagine a US Army staffed by ALL UPPER-LEVEL MANAGEMENT TYPES. That would be laughable - they would lose every war. - they could never achieve consensus on ANYTHING......like an ALL-EGGHEAD Army.

Funny, my backyard neighbor is a retired Marine and then teacher, and his home is worth about double what mine is worth...

I doubt he was ever in the upper 10% of wage earners... Go figure...

[Mosells]

Google

[LuvNH]

We all realize that TODAY in the US our most productive workforce........the aged 25 to 45 has been DECIMATED AND ARE LITERALLY DEAD because of the Fentanyl scourge and curse! many of these DEAD are white-collar CAPTAINS of industry. No wonder the unemployment figure is low. Someone needed to move upward to fill those positions vacated by the DEAD Fentanyl users. These people will NEVER get a chance to retire!
........And to retire to a place like The Village when they could, hopefully, afford a nice house and active life.
........Part of the reason for these Fentanyl deaths is the pressure on college graduates to succeed in the economy. Some try to medicate (with a deadly drug) the pressure away. That pressure is because there is NO natural middle class anymore in the US. Due to UNIONS being destroyed and colleges being too expensive for average people. These Fentanyl deaths are almost like the situation in ancient ROME when the Romans became increasingly decadent.
.......As to what is affordable, like a Village retirement life - a lot depends on the whole US economic society having a strong middle class that can make it through that age 25 to 45 period without resorting to KILLER DRUGS. A stronger middle class makes a stronger Village retirement enterprise, which contributes to a stronger America!

What a load of crap. As for all the drugs, there has always been drugs, you either take them or you don't. You are either smart enough to know they are going to kill you, or you are not. I have no pity for ANYONE who gets involved with drugs, in fact I am a great believer in letting them take their drugs and die, they are of no use to society, plus they cost the health care system thousands of dollars.

Anyway, this is a waste of my valuable time and I need to block your posts. May I suggest you get back on your space craft and return to your planet.

[Bilyclub]

What a load of crap. As for all the drugs, there has always been drugs, you either take them or you don't. You are either smart enough to know they are going to kill you, or you are not. I have no pity for ANYONE who gets involved with drugs, in fact I am a great believer in letting them take their drugs and die, they are of no use to society, plus they cost the health care system thousands of dollars.

Anyway, this is a waste of my valuable time and I need to block your posts. May I suggest you get back on your space craft and return to your planet.

Most of us only see this poster's bs when there's a quote. Blocking is the best technique.