Supreme Court upholds California law that will probably increase the price of pork

[Rainger99]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

[retiredguy123]

California has a lot of laws that other states don't follow. Why would pork farmers change their practices just so they can sell pork in California?

[Cybersprings]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

Almost anything California passes I think is ridiculous. And I am not a huge animal person. But requiring a 4x6 pen for a pig where she can lay down does not seem extreme. If the industry does not provide that now, then shame on them, not shame on California for passing the law. That is one law that I would be willing to pay more for. Yes it is "just an animal," but cruelty is still cruelty.

[Hape2Bhr]

Is bacon legal in California?

[Number 10 GI]

Just how is the California state government going to insure that pork producers in Arkansas or Iowa are following their law? Do any of these mental midgets realize how many farms raise hogs across this country? How about pork imported from another country? There is no way they have enough inspectors to inspect every place hogs are raised to guarantee compliance. An inspector from California would have no authority to access a pork producer in any state outside of California. Just mental pablum for gullible minds.

[Rainger99]

Just how is the California state government going to insure that pork producers in Arkansas or Iowa are following their law? Do any of these mental midgets realize how many farms raise hogs across this country? How about pork imported from another country? There is no way they have enough inspectors to inspect every place hogs are raised to guarantee compliance. An inspector from California would have no authority to access a pork producer in any state outside of California. Just mental pablum for gullible minds.

I agree. Enforcement will be a nightmare. Once the hogs get to the slaughterhouse and are killed, it will be extremely difficult to follow the product from that point through processing to packaging to the grocery store.

[dewilson58]

California has a lot of laws that other states don't follow. Why would pork farmers change their practices just so they can sell pork in California?

Bingo.

There are already trucking companies who will not run in Calif.

The OP is a non-event.

[Stu from NYC]

Guess we cannot ask the pig if he was given enough room.:bigbow:

[kkingston57]

Who cares? How much of pork sold in Florida comes from California? Bet < 1%.

[JMintzer]

Who cares? How much of pork sold in Florida comes from California? Bet < 1%.

You think only CA will raise their pork prices due to increased production costs?

[Cybersprings]

Bingo.

There are already trucking companies who will not run in Calif.

The OP is a non-event.

I normally agree with what you say, so looking for clarification. The OP was that SCOTUS upheld the california law banning sale of pork in their state under those conditions. All california has to do is ask for some sort of certification and it will be up to the seller to prove. (I am surmising). So it seems like a big event that the law was upheld.

[Worldseries27]

the us supreme court just upheld a california law which requires that any pork sold in california has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the california law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in california, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

supreme court rejects challenge to california pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)
wish it was further away

[Bay Kid]

Glad I don't live in such a crazy state. LA now wants civilians to make traffic stops. This will end well.

[Bill14564]

California has a lot of laws that other states don't follow. Why would pork farmers change their practices just so they can sell pork in California?

California is the largest state in the nation. Along with bacon, pork products include hams, sausages, pork chops, and hot dogs. It will be hard for companies who make these products, like Oscar Mayer, to decide to forgo doing business in California.

If Oscar Mayer chooses to meet the California standards then either they will need to pass the new requirements along to all of their pork farmers or they will need to create separate processing lines and sources for products sold in California. Either way it will be an increased cost of doing business for the company that will likely be passed along to us all.

[MandoMan]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

24 square feet. 4’ x 6’. How much room do the growers provide now? It’s interesting that the Republican majority on the Supreme Court sided with the State of California on this, but President Biden’s office urged the Supreme Court to side with the pork producers! I think the pork producers should agree among themselves to not comply and see how the people in California react when their stores can find almost no pork products to sell. Let people eat turkey bacon and beef hotdogs.

[retiredguy123]

24 square feet. 4’ x 6’. How much room do the growers provide now?
14 to 20 square feet

[Ponygirl]

Instead of focusing on the possible increased cost of pork why not applaud this ruling that sees the importance of humane housing for breeding sows. This is an effort to reduce horrific and continuous cruelty

Currently the sides of the enclosure are so close to her body that she can’t even turn around. This ruling increases the area where she lives for her entire life so she can turn around and easily lie down. Small ask. Perhaps the industry will recognize the importance of this modification if they want to sell pork in California

[Steve]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.

[Rainger99]

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.

[Cybersprings]

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.

I think your post is very reasonsed and brings up very valid concerns. From the article:

"Gorsuch said the pork producers challenging the law were asking the justices to “fashion two new and more aggressive constitutional restrictions on the ability of States to regulate goods sold within their borders.” The justices declined.


During arguments in the case in October, liberal and conservative justices underscored the potential reach of the case. Some worried whether greenlighting the animal cruelty law would give state legislators a license to pass laws targeting practices they disapprove of, such as a law that says a product cannot be sold in the state if workers who made it are not vaccinated or are not in the country legally. They also worried about the reverse: How many state laws would be called into question if California's law were not permitted?"

I think this is a very complex issue, and since the California law was upheld, I think we will get a chance to see how things play out.

Maybe the pork producers just stop selling in California. Yes it is a very large state and that would hurt sales significantly. But when no one sells to California, maybe California rethinks their positions. I also think California has a huge burden to enforce the law. All a pork producer would need to do is set up 1 pen of required size. Then it seems like it would be up to california to prove that any package of pork was not from a pig whose mother was kept in that pen. Seems like a steep climb.

All that being said, I agree with your concerns on what new laws by one state that affects another can have. And I believe Californial is a liberal pig sty itself. But I do think keeping a pig in a pen where it cannot even turn around is cruel.

[jmaccallum]

Is bacon legal in California?

I don’t think so. :pepper2:

[hypart]

There is no constitutional right for you to sell pork in California. California has a right (just like any other state) to pass the laws they see fit for their state. If you don't want to comply, then you don't sell to California residents. Not that complicated.

As far as enforcement, California can simply observe through video cameras.

Again, if you don't like it, then don't do business with California.

It's a free country people.

[Caymus]

I think your post is very reasonsed and brings up very valid concerns. From the article:

"Gorsuch said the pork producers challenging the law were asking the justices to “fashion two new and more aggressive constitutional restrictions on the ability of States to regulate goods sold within their borders.” The justices declined.


During arguments in the case in October, liberal and conservative justices underscored the potential reach of the case. Some worried whether greenlighting the animal cruelty law would give state legislators a license to pass laws targeting practices they disapprove of, such as a law that says a product cannot be sold in the state if workers who made it are not vaccinated or are not in the country legally. They also worried about the reverse: How many state laws would be called into question if California's law were not permitted?"

I think this is a very complex issue, and since the California law was upheld, I think we will get a chance to see how things play out.

Maybe the pork producers just stop selling in California. Yes it is a very large state and that would hurt sales significantly. But when no one sells to California, maybe California rethinks their positions. I also think California has a huge burden to enforce the law. All a pork producer would need to do is set up 1 pen of required size. Then it seems like it would be up to california to prove that any package of pork was not from a pig whose mother was kept in that pen. Seems like a steep climb.

All that being said, I agree with your concerns on what new laws by one state that affects another can have. And I believe Californial is a liberal pig sty itself. But I do think keeping a pig in a pen where it cannot even turn around is cruel.

...so, another state can pass a law that pigs need to be confined in small cages?

[Bill1701]

This law was passed years ago and only takes effect now. Pork producers had plenty of time to adjust. Don't forget that swine flu came from Mexico. It developed on a pig farm that had moved from South Carolina because the owner didn't want to meet federal EPA requirements.

[dougjb]

While some posters here are readily criticizing California, it might be best to have a small bite of humble pie.

Before the Florida Constitution was revised, voters in the state by popular vote amended the Florida Constitution (not just a law..but part of our Constitution) to protect pregnant pigs! The amendment occured in the last 30 years or so!

Perhaps one should strongly consider the old adage that people in glass houses should not throw stones!

[Wondering]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)
Too bad for pork producers. I have no sympathy for an industry that hires child/under age workers and didn't protect their employees during the pandemic. The heart associations says you shouldn't be eating pork anyway - not healthy for your heart!

[Battlebasset]

I remembered reading about this in a WSJ editorial last year, so I went back to find it. From the article:

California voters in 2018 approved a ballot initiative that established minimum confinement standards for farm animals sold as meat in the state. The law effectively requires that adult female pigs be housed in large group pens even though nearly all hog farmers keep them in individual pens, in part to prevent disease from spreading.

And for those who think this won't affect the rest of the nation, I give you California's requirement for different gasoline blends that make refining less efficient, thus raising the price of gasoline for all of us.

If you want to read the entire WSJ article, here is the link. If you have a library card, at least in Sumter county, you have free access if you go through their website and register for online services:

California Tries to Regulate 50 States - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-tries-to-regulate-50-states-national-pork-producers-council-v-ross-supreme-court-interstate-commerce-11664992867)

[dewilson58]

Too bad for pork producers. I have no sympathy for an industry that hires child/under age workers and didn't protect their employees during the pandemic. The heart associations says you shouldn't be eating pork anyway - not healthy for your heart!

So miss informed.
Child workers.............:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Healthy...............lean pork is as part of any healthy diet.

R U a chicken farmer by chance. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[hypart]

...so, another state can pass a law that pigs need to be confined in small cages?

Yes.

Then the pork producer would have to make a decision to which state it would like to sell to.

We are 50 individual states. And there are conflicting laws between states often. Welcome to America.

[mikempp]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

How do they raise them? In a stall they can never walk or lay down? That's etremly cruel, I'd pay more not to be crual.

[Vermilion Villager]

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.
Well… If what you're saying is correct Iowa should be in compliance with the standard and have nothing to worry about correct?:mornincoffee:

[dewilson58]

California will be passing a law which requires pigs to fly into the state rather than being transported by truck.

:mornincoffee:

[Vermilion Villager]

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.
States rights!!!!! :crap2:

[Bill14564]

How do they raise them? In a stall they can never walk or lay down? That's etremly cruel, I'd pay more not to be crual.

And you should have the right to make that choice while I choose otherwise.

The California law is making the choice for everyone in the state - no one can choose otherwise. But that's what the majority of the California voters in 2018 wanted.

The issue is that with the industry being the way it is, this California law *might* end up making the choice for everyone in the nation. I am sure *I* did not have a say in that 2018 California law.

[Cybersprings]

And you should have the right to make that choice while I choose otherwise.

The California law is making the choice for everyone in the state - no one can choose otherwise. But that's what the majority of the California voters in 2018 wanted.

The issue is that with the industry being the way it is, this California law *might* end up making the choice for everyone in the nation. I am sure *I* did not have a say in that 2018 California law.


The California law cannot make the choice for everyone. (Trust me, I am not a California defender at all.) Businesses who do business in CA may make a change to their entire production model in order to sell in CA, or they may change just the production line that sells to CA, or they may choose to not sell in CA. Producers have every right to do whatever they want and sell to you in FL. The CA law does not control that. How businesses choose to respond to the CA law may affect you (in FL), but CA does not bear the responsibility for that. The businesses do.

[Cybersprings]

California will be passing a law which requires pigs to fly into the state rather than being transported by truck.

:mornincoffee:


And only if they fly with renewable energy and do not emit any gasses.

[jjombrello]

Another idiotic rule or law coming out of California. Lived there on tow occasions when things were still half-way sane, but how anyone could keep living there now is beyond me.

[Cybersprings]

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.

Thanks for posting. I had to look up the term farrowing (although I kind of guessed what it meant). When I did, it took me to a site with videos of birthing and piglets suckling after birth. I have to say the tight quarters, for the intent of keeping the piglets from being squashed did not look cruel. I wish I had seen these before I commented on the cruelty. I wonder if this was shown to the voters before hand, or if there reaction was based on ignorance like mine was.

Will giving them the 24 sq ft room as required actually result in the death of many piglets? After looking, it appears so to me.

[toeser]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)


Normally, I disagree with about 90% of laws that California passes. However, I grew up on a farm and am in total agreement with the standards in this law. Current practices in the hog farming (and turkey farming) industry are absolutely cruel. Have a little empathy for these poor animals that feed you and don't accept cruelty just to save a buck.

[Bill14564]

The California law cannot make the choice for everyone. (Trust me, I am not a California defender at all.) Businesses who do business in CA may make a change to their entire production model in order to sell in CA, or they may change just the production line that sells to CA, or they may choose to not sell in CA. Producers have every right to do whatever they want and sell to you in FL. The CA law does not control that. How businesses choose to respond to the CA law may affect you (in FL),

I believe that is what I wrote.

but CA does not bear the responsibility for that. The businesses do.

Ah yes, the businesses can choose to not do business in the largest state in the nation. Or, the businesses can choose to set up parallel sources and production lines for their products that will be shipped to California. Or, businesses can recognize that to stay in business they need to remain in the California market and the only way to do that is to change their sourcing which will affect all their products whether they are shipped to California or not. Really not much of a choice for the businesses.

[Cybersprings]

I believe that is what I wrote.



Ah yes, the businesses can choose to not do business in the largest state in the nation. Or, the businesses can choose to set up parallel sources and production lines for their products that will be shipped to California. Or, businesses can recognize that to stay in business they need to remain in the California market and the only way to do that is to change their sourcing which will affect all their products whether they are shipped to California or not. Really not much of a choice for the businesses.

It is possible that I am splitting hairs, but I do think that miniscule difference matters. I was understanding you to say that CA voters were telling you what you can or cannot do, and you had no say in that. That may not have been what you were stating. But if it was, CA voters do have a right to say they do not what porks sold in their state under a certain set of conditions. If the businesses that sell in that state choose to apply those conditions everywhere else, CA cannot be blamed for that. Yes it is a side effect of their law, but they did not (directly) force the businesses to do anything any different for any other state. So, you not having a say in CA law does not make you a victim of CA law. It may make you "collateral damage" but I don't think a state should be prevented from implementing a law that only applies to goods and services sold in their state, because the businesses that operate in their state CHOOSE to apply the law for other states, and that bothers/affects the residents of the other states.

Bottom line is I agree that it may (probably will?) affect you. But that is not CA's concern.

You can read in my post before this that I think the law may be flawed for other reasons, but that is a different discussion.

[Caymus]

Normally, I disagree with about 90% of laws that California passes. However, I grew up on a farm and am in total agreement with the standards in this law. Current practices in the hog farming (and turkey farming) industry are absolutely cruel. Have a little empathy for these poor animals that feed you and don't accept cruelty just to save a buck.

Do the pigs "feel" pain from not being able to turn around? Are they as sentient as Porky Pig or Arnold Ziffel?:)

[Lindsyburnsy]

Almost anything California passes I think is ridiculous. And I am not a huge animal person. But requiring a 4x6 pen for a pig where she can lay down does not seem extreme. If the industry does not provide that now, then shame on them, not shame on California for passing the law. That is one law that I would be willing to pay more for. Yes it is "just an animal," but cruelty is still cruelty.
I couldn't agree with you more! Animals should be treated humanely!

[retiredguy123]

I couldn't agree with you more! Animals should be treated humanely!
What is humane is very subjective and controversial. Ask PETA.

[Pugchief]

Do the pigs "feel" pain from not being able to turn around? Are they as sentient as Porky Pig or Arnold Ziffel?:)

Pigs are smart animals, comparable to dogs. Would a dog feel the pain? My dog certainly would.

[Pugchief]

It's a free country people.

Is it? Not so sure these days. :(

[JMintzer]

There is no constitutional right for you to sell pork in California. California has a right (just like any other state) to pass the laws they see fit for their state. If you don't want to comply, then you don't sell to California residents. Not that complicated.

As far as enforcement, California can simply observe through video cameras.

Again, if you don't like it, then don't do business with California.

It's a free country people.

Video cameras?

Set up by whom?

To me, this sounds like an interstate commerce issue... Not a states issue...

[JMintzer]

While some posters here are readily criticizing California, it might be best to have a small bite of humble pie.

Before the Florida Constitution was revised, voters in the state by popular vote amended the Florida Constitution (not just a law..but part of our Constitution) to protect pregnant pigs! The amendment occured in the last 30 years or so!

Perhaps one should strongly consider the old adage that people in glass houses should not throw stones!

How did that affect other states?

[JMintzer]

Too bad for pork producers. I have no sympathy for an industry that hires child/under age workers and didn't protect their employees during the pandemic. The heart associations says you shouldn't be eating pork anyway - not healthy for your heart!

Nice red herring...

To your last point:

"Although many people think that beef is healthier than pork, we must look at this conclusion from a few perspectives. When looking at the base nutrients such as protein and fats they are nearly identical. If we compare fatty cuts of pork and fatty cuts of beef, the pork has larger amounts of healthy fats."

"Pork is typically lowest in calories and saturated fat when compared with other red meats"

[JMintzer]

States rights!!!!! :crap2:

Interstate Commerce!

[Stu from NYC]

Who knew the pig union had so much power.

[golfing eagles]

Who knew the pig union had so much power.

Well, when your (Golden) state is populated by 20 million pigs, they vote for whatever outlandish rules the head pigs want.

[Number 10 GI]

There are many pig farmers who sell the small pigs weaned off the mother to other pig farmers. These farmers then raise the pigs to market weight and sell them to intermediaries that then sell the pigs to a slaughterhouse. Much of the slaughterhouse meat is then sold to a meat processor where it is then cut into ribs, chops, roasts, etc. How is anyone going to determine how or where the sow was housed when she had her litter? Stupid laws passed by ignorant politicians goaded on by ignorant people that have no idea how the law can be administered.
One poster said cameras could be used to monitor how much room the sow had in the farrowing stall. I can see it now, an animal justice warrior goes to an Iowa farmer and tells him he is going to install a camera in the farrowing barn to insure compliance with a California law. I don't see a happy ending for the animal justice warrior.

[Villages Kahuna]

Have you ever been on a pig farm? Raising pigs is just as scientific these days as building cars. Nothing is left to chance. It wouldn’t surprise me if the pig farmers “ran the numbers” and determined that the capital expenditures necessary to satisfy the California law wouldn’t be justified. So they might simply abandon sales to California.

Yes, I know that California is the most populous state in US with 39 million residents. But if the cost of satisfying the new law isn’t justified, it simply won’t be done.

Besides, the law will only indirectly affect pig farmers. When pig raisers ship pigs they’re sold to a pork processor, who slaughters, butchers and wraps the pork. That finished product is then sold to a distributor who sells and delivers it to the grocery stores and meat markets. Enforcing that law against individual meat retailers would take an army of state investigators to track pork from a grocery back to an individual pig farm in order to make a case that would hold up in court.

Besides, what a stupid idea.

[toeser]

Do the pigs "feel" pain from not being able to turn around? Are they as sentient as Porky Pig or Arnold Ziffel?:)

Pigs are probably as smart as most dogs. They just aren't as friendly or have the personality of dogs.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)

If you read the court statement by Gorsuch, essentially, the supreme court said that agriculture is a state's right issue, and that pig farming doesn't rise the level needing US supreme court attention.

True, wrong court, California Supreme court rules California for agriculture.

Big nothing, the free range chicken activists moved on to free range pigs.

I would have thought that the members of the TV barristers gang would have seen this as the pig farmers' cooperative grand standing as well.

And sorry for piling on, Verm is correct. . .
States rights!!!!!

[golfing eagles]

Title of the thread:

Supreme Court upholds California law that will probably increase the price of pork

I'm not an economist, but I would suggest that if pig farmers refuse to jump through stupid California hoops, the price of pork in the other 49 states will drop due to increased supply. Economics 101.

And in California, the price of tofu and kale will rise:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[TeresaE]

The big pork producers, like Tyson, have said they can comply with the California requirements. This will mean the smaller pork producers, who don’t have the financial means (and it will cost significantly more) Plus those sow enclosures are design to protect the piglets. To comply will cost too much and they will be squeezed out of the market. Yes, our pork prices will go up.

[TeresaE]

Just how is the California state government going to insure that pork producers in Arkansas or Iowa are following their law? Do any of these mental midgets realize how many farms raise hogs across this country? How about pork imported from another country? There is no way they have enough inspectors to inspect every place hogs are raised to guarantee compliance. An inspector from California would have no authority to access a pork producer in any state outside of California. Just mental pablum for gullible minds.

Meat shipped across state lines in the United States must be done in the presences of a USDA Inspector. Animals are inspected before slaughter and the meat after. This would mean just another layer of verification and cost. It can be done by the big companies.
Plus the precedent this sets is frightening. It’s actually a nightmare.

[Rainger99]

Title of the thread:

Supreme Court upholds California law that will probably increase the price of pork

I'm not an economist, but I would suggest that if pig farmers refuse to jump through stupid California hoops, the price of pork in the other 49 states will drop due to increased supply. Economics 101.

And in California, the price of tofu and kale will rise:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

If pig farmers pull out of California, you may be right. However, I think most companies will try to do business in the largest state in the country. So I think pork prices will increase.

California is slightly smaller than Florida and NY combined.

California — 40,223,504
Texas — 30,345,487
Florida — 22,359,251
New York — 20,448,194
Pennsylvania — 13,092,796

[rsmurano]

Stop selling pork to that failing state. Let the people get upset with their state government controlling them again. When are people going to vote out these idiots out that create these idiotic laws. I heard another law will be on space for chickens.

[Bill14564]

Stop selling pork to that failing state. Let the people get upset with their state government controlling them again. When are people going to vote out these idiots out that create these idiotic laws. I heard another law will be on space for chickens.

It was the people of California that voted FOR this law in 2018.

According to wikipedia, Proposition 12 passed with 63% of the vote.

[Caymus]

It was the people of California that voted FOR this law in 2018.

According to wikipedia, Proposition 12 passed with 63% of the vote.

They also voted for higher egg prices.

[Stu from NYC]

They also voted for higher egg prices.

If the voters saw this amendment written in a simple straightforward manner the vote might well have been different.

Why write something on one page when 100 pages can get you the result you want.

[Bill14564]

They also voted for higher egg prices.

No, they voted for anti-cruelty measures. Yes, implementation of these measures will likely result in increased prices, but it is unlikely that the words "higher egg prices" appeared on the ballot.

Californians have a right to vote on such things what with "state's rights" and all. They have a right to vote for them and push effective data out five years to give them time to pat themselves on the back before they see the real cost. Unfortunately, it is quite possible that we will all pay the price for what Californians wanted for their state.

It's legal, it's "state's rights," it's Constitutional, it may even be the right thing to do. It's just unfortunate that its impact will likely be felt outside the state's borders.

[golfing eagles]

The big pork producers, like Tyson, have said they can comply with the California requirements. This will mean the smaller pork producers, who don’t have the financial means (and it will cost significantly more) Plus those sow enclosures are design to protect the piglets. To comply will cost too much and they will be squeezed out of the market. Yes, our pork prices will go up.

They won’t be “squeezed out of the market “, they’ll simply sell to the other 49 states. And since they won’t spend millions to acquiesce to California stupidity, they’ll be at a competitive advantage

[dewilson58]

I just checked with every pork farmer in Iowa, they don't care if California stops buying pork.

:mornincoffee:

[Rainger99]

This is from Justice Kavanaugh’s dissent.

Under this Court’s precedents, one State’s efforts to effectively regulate farming, manufacturing, or production in other States could raise significant questions under that Clause [Privileges and Immunities Clause].

[Bogie Shooter]

If the voters saw this amendment written in a simple straightforward manner the vote might well have been different.

Why write something on one page when 100 pages can get you the result you want.

Like a 271 pages debt ceiling bill…….:shrug:

[Escape Artist]

Almost anything California passes I think is ridiculous. And I am not a huge animal person. But requiring a 4x6 pen for a pig where she can lay down does not seem extreme. If the industry does not provide that now, then shame on them, not shame on California for passing the law. That is one law that I would be willing to pay more for. Yes it is "just an animal," but cruelty is still cruelty.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I’m not an animal lover either but do not want to see them cruelly treated even if they will be killed eventually for consumption. What people don’t realize is that stress releases hormones into an animal’s system which remain the muscle after it’s killed. Besides the inhumane aspect, advocates cite safety for humans consuming meat containing potentially harmful hormones as the byproducts of extreme stress an animal endures for it’s entire lifespan.

[Mrmean58]

California has a lot of laws that other states don't follow. Why would pork farmers change their practices just so they can sell pork in California?

Farmers won't change. They'll stop selling pork to CA stores and restaurants. Eventually everyone in CA will be forced to become vegan.

[Mrmean58]

Is bacon legal in California?

Faux bacon is.

[Mrmean58]

Bingo.

There are already trucking companies who will not run in Calif.

The OP is a non-event.

Most trucking companies do not have the required smog equiped trucks so they can't go into CA to deliver or pick up.
You see decades ago politicians in CA had the ability to invest into mass transit systems to fight poor air quality but chose not to. Now they are passing on that expense to their citizens by passing EV requirements, higher MPG standards etc.

[dhdallas]

Just because somewhere in the Bible there is a statement about man having dominion over the animals, doesn't mean we have a right to abuse & treat them inhumanely. It means we have a responsibility to animals & how they are treated. Smithfield Foods Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Chinese conglomerate WH Group. Smithfield's treatment of animals (and their workers) is abusive, cruel, and inhumane. I try to avoid buying any meat product from Smithfield. Factory farming of livestock not only has put the local farmer out of business but these animal factories raise livestock in deplorable conditions. People need to be aware of where their food comes from and shop accordingly. Go online, watch a few videos & documentaries on the meatpacking & science industry's cruel treatment of animals & see if you then aren't willing to pay a little more for humanely raised meat products. I bet you will!

[Rainger99]

See if you then aren't willing to pay a little more for humanely raised meat products. I bet you will!

How much is a “little” more??
Bacon is about $9.00 a pound now. Are you willing to pay $10, $12, $15, or $18?

[Kelevision]

Almost anything California passes I think is ridiculous. And I am not a huge animal person. But requiring a 4x6 pen for a pig where she can lay down does not seem extreme. If the industry does not provide that now, then shame on them, not shame on California for passing the law. That is one law that I would be willing to pay more for. Yes it is "just an animal," but cruelty is still cruelty.

:bigbow:

[Stu from NYC]

Why would they not have a herd of pigs in a larger area like a corral rather than confine them to a smaller stall.

[Number 10 GI]

Why would they not have a herd of pigs in a larger area like a corral rather than confine them to a smaller stall.

A sow with a litter is very protective of them. In a larger pen with other sows you will have them fighting each other and killing other sow's piglets.

[coralway]

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-california-142651441.html)




As we now know, at least two United States Supreme Court Justices and/or their wives can be bought.

[JMintzer]

As we now know, at least two United States Supreme Court Justices and/or their wives can be bought.

https://media.tenor.com/ciNDyf6AgH0AAAAC/disappointed-disappointed-fan.gif

[kkingston57]

How much is a “little” more??
Bacon is about $9.00 a pound now. Are you willing to pay $10, $12, $15, or $18?my

Agree, bacon is high. On the other hand, my favorite pork product, baby back ribs, are +/- $3.00 a pound. Saw a whole ham for $1.00 a pound.