Death with Dignity

[Tvflguy]

A thought came upon me when reading about the apparent recent TV murder and suicide.

As I age, I can perceive a time when an elderly person receives the "terminal" news from docs. And close to "the end point" enduring extreme pain as your body, and perhaps mind, slowly declines.

Provided some serious meds to alleviate some of that pain, but still. And the inevitable continues - many days or weeks with your family watching no quality of LIFE impacting your loved one laying there. Enduring rough emotions and expending $$$$$.

My choice at that point would be an understanding with loved ones that I CHOOSE to determine the time and method of my End when I want to. When there is absolutely NO hope. And possibly "live out" the inevitable in a coma/vegetative state or such. IMO NOT fair to ME or the Family. MY Choice would be a Dignified end of life. Our society endures so much which endangers healthy life. We should have a law that provides for a dignified death within strict regulations. period.

There are several USA states that passed a Bill covering this. Florida, not yet.

[ThirdOfFive]

A thought came upon me when reading about the apparent recent TV murder and suicide.

As I age, I can perceive a time when an elderly person receives the "terminal" news from docs. And close to "the end point" enduring extreme pain as your body, and perhaps mind, slowly declines.

Provided some serious meds to alleviate some of that pain, but still. And the inevitable continues - many days or weeks with your family watching no quality of LIFE impacting your loved one laying there. Enduring rough emotions and expending $$$$$.

My choice at that point would be an understanding with loved ones that I CHOOSE to determine the time and method of my End when I want to. When there is absolutely NO hope. And possibly "live out" the inevitable in a coma/vegetative state or such. IMO NOT fair to ME or the Family. MY Choice would be a Dignified end of life. Our society endures so much which endangers healthy life. We should have a law that provides for a dignified death within strict regulations. period.

There are several USA states that passed a Bill covering this. Florida, not yet.
Agree totally. Often that is the last truly informed decision a person can make, and it seems criminal to take that opportunity away.

Mom did it right. At 85 he was a recent cancer survivor (surgery took a lot out of her), living with a bad heart (triple bypass and a pacemaker) and severe arthritis and accompanying ambulation problems meant that she was basically non-ambulatory except for a few steps now and again. Fortunately her mind was unimpaired. One day she took a tumble and suffered a compound fracture of both leg bones just above the ankle. She knew she'd never walk again, and on top of her other issues she decided she'd had enough. She and my sister, whom she lived with at the time, discussed everything and Mom decided to call the pacemaker company and have them turn it off. Let nature take it's course. Next morning, she was dead.

I hope I have those kinds of guts and clarity of thinking, when it becomes my turn.

[rustyp]

Agree totally. Often that is the last truly informed decision a person can make, and it seems criminal to take that opportunity away.

Mom did it right. At 85 he was a recent cancer survivor (surgery took a lot out of her), living with a bad heart (triple bypass and a pacemaker) and severe arthritis and accompanying ambulation problems meant that she was basically non-ambulatory except for a few steps now and again. Fortunately her mind was unimpaired. One day she took a tumble and suffered a compound fracture of both leg bones just above the ankle. She knew she'd never walk again, and on top of her other issues she decided she'd had enough. She and my sister, whom she lived with at the time, discussed everything and Mom decided to call the pacemaker company and have them turn it off. Let nature take it's course. Next morning, she was dead.

I hope I have those kinds of guts and clarity of thinking, when it becomes my turn.

Did the pacemaker company turn it off with a simple request over the phone ? No doctor ? No mountain of paperwork ?

[bsloan1960]

A thought came upon me when reading about the apparent recent TV murder and suicide.

As I age, I can perceive a time when an elderly person receives the "terminal" news from docs. And close to "the end point" enduring extreme pain as your body, and perhaps mind, slowly declines.

Provided some serious meds to alleviate some of that pain, but still. And the inevitable continues - many days or weeks with your family watching no quality of LIFE impacting your loved one laying there. Enduring rough emotions and expending $$$$$.

My choice at that point would be an understanding with loved ones that I CHOOSE to determine the time and method of my End when I want to. When there is absolutely NO hope. And possibly "live out" the inevitable in a coma/vegetative state or such. IMO NOT fair to ME or the Family. MY Choice would be a Dignified end of life. Our society endures so much which endangers healthy life. We should have a law that provides for a dignified death within strict regulations. period.

There are several USA states that passed a Bill covering this. Florida, not yet.

I worked in hospitals and nursing homes my entire career. I've watched perhaps a thousand people die of terminal illnesses- some of which were horrific.

The battle cry of opponents of Assisted Suicide is to claim that "Effective Pain Management" will give the person a comfortable journey through their battle. The only times I've seen Effective Pain Management is in the final days or hours of life. Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

Some oppose assisted suicide for religious reasons- If your religion tells you to suffer in horrible pain then go ahead. But your religion should dictate how I should bring an end to my agony.

I've watch patients slowly suffocate to death. I've had countless patients beg for more medication, and some beg me to kill them. This is the real world of hospitals and nursing homes folks. It isn't like the television ads and brochures. When you drive by a nursing home you should be aware that there is likely horrible suffering inside.

[Taltarzac725]

Death With Dignity in Florida | Nolo (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/death-with-dignity-florida.html)

I did find this.

I have spoken a lot of late to various people who have worked in nursing homes quite a bit. They do all seem to agree with some posters that life in the nursing homes near the end can be horrific. Probably why most are no longer working in nursing homes but coming into people's homes to help.

This group may be of help-- TRI-COUNTY CAREGIVER RESOURCE CENTER. Google it.

We did use them a few years ago for our parents' needs.

[bsloan1960]

I worked in hospitals and nursing homes my entire career. I've watched perhaps a thousand people die of terminal illnesses- some of which were horrific.

The battle cry of opponents of Assisted Suicide is to claim that "Effective Pain Management" will give the person a comfortable journey through their battle. The only times I've seen Effective Pain Management is in the final days or hours of life. Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

Some oppose assisted suicide for religious reasons- If your religion tells you to suffer in horrible pain then go ahead. But your religion should dictate how I should bring an end to my agony.

I've watch patients slowly suffocate to death. I've had countless patients beg for more medication, and some beg me to kill them. This is the real world of hospitals and nursing homes folks. It isn't like the television ads and brochures. When you drive by a nursing home you should be aware that there is likely horrible suffering inside.

Ooops- should be "But your religion should ~ NOT ~ dictate how I should bring an end to my agony."

[Velvet]

I worked in hospitals and nursing homes my entire career. I've watched perhaps a thousand people die of terminal illnesses- some of which were horrific.

The battle cry of opponents of Assisted Suicide is to claim that "Effective Pain Management" will give the person a comfortable journey through their battle. The only times I've seen Effective Pain Management is in the final days or hours of life. Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

Some oppose assisted suicide for religious reasons- If your religion tells you to suffer in horrible pain then go ahead. But your religion should dictate how I should bring an end to my agony.

I've watch patients slowly suffocate to death. I've had countless patients beg for more medication, and some beg me to kill them. This is the real world of hospitals and nursing homes folks. It isn't like the television ads and brochures. When you drive by a nursing home you should be aware that there is likely horrible suffering inside.

Just curious, which religion dictates cruel suffering before death? We shoot horses when they can’t recover for humane reasons, are we less kind to people?

[Kenswing]

Even though there’s no law that approves killing yourself, I doubt you’ll get arrested if you do so. It would be nice if we did have an assisted suicide law though.

[bsloan1960]

Just curious, which religion dictates cruel suffering before death? We shoot horses when they can’t recover for humane reasons, are we less kind to people?

Here you go:

Religious Groups’ Views on End-of-Life Issues | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/)

[Velvet]

Here you go:

Religious Groups’ Views on End-of-Life Issues | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/)

Thank you, now I know which religions I could never practice. Any faith that glorifies suffering to me does not make sense. I can’t quite visualize a God that takes delight in human suffering. My impression is faith is to give one hope, meaning and joy.

[Tvflguy]

Thank you, now I know which religions I could never practice. Any faith that glorifies suffering to me does not make sense. I can’t quite visualize a God that takes delight in human suffering. My impression is faith is to give one hope, meaning and joy.

So agree. Some organizations may be blind to facts and truth.

[Blueblaze]

I agree, except that it never seems to end with a consenting doctor prescribing a pill.

Next, the busybodies demand that every doctor do it, regardless of their own personal belief or Constitutionally-protected religion (as in Oregon). Then, all businesses are required to offer the service free of charge through their insurance. Next thing you know, your insurance company or friendly government-run healthcare service starts suggesting that maybe you should take that pill instead of expecting them to pay for a hundred-thousand dollars worth of chemo. Then, your kid starts complaining about blowing his inheritance just so you can selfishly live another year.

By the way, England's National Health service is already starting down that road -- rationing healthcare, while making the suicide pill available to anyone who asks

Until we get a world where common sense is common, maybe we ought to just do leave it to those who want a quick exit to choose one that doesn't require assistance.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thank you, now I know which religions I could never practice. Any faith that glorifies suffering to me does not make sense. I can’t quite visualize a God that takes delight in human suffering. My impression is faith is to give one hope, meaning and joy.

You could never be a Christian then. The whole point of that religion is that a rabbi made a lot of statements that were unpopular to the local government, and riled up what amounts to a peace and love rally that really got under their skin. So they vilified him and flogged him over 100 times, then forced him to carry his own cross to the place of his death, where he was then nailed to the cross, his hands and feet bound, with a crown of thorns on his head, and made to die slowly, up there on that cross. He suffered as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone else.

And now we have all these christians glorifying this sacrifice with bloody-painted statues of jesus hanging from crosses over the bedrooms of America.

That's just Christianity. Other religions have similar.

It's why I reject the religiosity of my upbringing, but embrace the cultural, ethnic, and traditional aspects of Judiaism instead.

[manaboutown]

You could never be a Christian then. The whole point of that religion is that a rabbi made a lot of statements that were unpopular to the local government, and riled up what amounts to a peace and love rally that really got under their skin. So they vilified him and flogged him over 100 times, then forced him to carry his own cross to the place of his death, where he was then nailed to the cross, his hands and feet bound, with a crown of thorns on his head, and made to die slowly, up there on that cross. He suffered as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone else.

And now we have all these christians glorifying this sacrifice with bloody-painted statues of jesus hanging from crosses over the bedrooms of America.

That's just Christianity. Other religions have similar.

It's why I reject the religiosity of my upbringing, but embrace the cultural, ethnic, and traditional aspects of Judiaism instead.

Well whoopeedo for you!

[Pairadocs]

I agree, except that it never seems to end with a consenting doctor prescribing a pill.

Next, the busybodies demand that every doctor do it, regardless of their own personal belief or Constitutionally-protected religion (as in Oregon). Then, all businesses are required to offer the service free of charge through their insurance. Next thing you know, your insurance company or friendly government-run healthcare service starts suggesting that maybe you should take that pill instead of expecting them to pay for a hundred-thousand dollars worth of chemo. Then, your kid starts complaining about blowing his inheritance just so you can selfishly live another year.

By the way, England's National Health service is already starting down that road -- rationing healthcare, while making the suicide pill available to anyone who asks

Until we get a world where common sense is common, maybe we ought to just do leave it to those who want a quick exit to choose one that doesn't require assistance.

Soylent Green ? Old book and movie ! People have always had the right to end their life. Had a friend who decided she did not want to live with her VERY severe diabetes, facing one amputation after another that began with just a couple toes. She overdosed on medication and died by just falling asleep. To involve the "government", congress, legislation, a plan for enforcement, etc. etc. is a very dangerous, Pandora's box, a slippery slope ! It will, in the end, it will ultimately incorporate infringing on religious freedom, and already you get a hint of what lies ahead when people on this platform even post such things as: what kind of religion glorifies pain and suffering ? Actually, if one has studied religions of the world, there are such religions, but that should never become the prerogative of the government, or for that matter, just of people on a social media site. History has already shown us, in other areas, that legislating such matters never ends well. People will not take this seriously, but I can see something like that eventually viewed as a way to "solve" the problem of addicts living on the streets, of the shortage of psychiatric facilities for our chronically mentally ill. We already know that many in the political class are more equal that many of those they are paid to represent, so when health care is rationed, will the decisions be qualitative or quantitative ? Soylent Green, that novel of complete "science fiction"....

[bsloan1960]

Soylent Green ? Old book and movie ! People have always had the right to end their life. Had a friend who decided she did not want to live with her VERY severe diabetes, facing one amputation after another that began with just a couple toes. She overdosed on medication and died by just falling asleep. To involve the "government", congress, legislation, a plan for enforcement, etc. etc. is a very dangerous, Pandora's box, a slippery slope ! It will, in the end, it will ultimately incorporate infringing on religious freedom, and already you get a hint of what lies ahead when people on this platform even post such things as: what kind of religion glorifies pain and suffering ? Actually, if one has studied religions of the world, there are such religions, but that should never become the prerogative of the government, or for that matter, just of people on a social media site. History has already shown us, in other areas, that legislating such matters never ends well. People will not take this seriously, but I can see something like that eventually viewed as a way to "solve" the problem of addicts living on the streets, of the shortage of psychiatric facilities for our chronically mentally ill. We already know that many in the political class are more equal that many of those they are paid to represent, so when health care is rationed, will the decisions be qualitative or quantitative ? Soylent Green, that novel of complete "science fiction"....

I worked in an Emergency Room. Most suicide attempts by intentional overdose fail. The most effective method is a gun in the mouth- it has a very high success rate.

People should not have to resort to blowing off their brain stem. To be found in this condition by family members- and even by first responders is severely traumatizing.

It is much more effective and compassionate for all involved for a person to be medically guided into a painless death with loved ones present. While government involvement would be initially cumbersome at first, once the process becomes an accepted part of medical care the red tape would become a more streamlined process.

[Two Bills]

By the way, England's National Health service is already starting down that road -- rationing healthcare, while making the suicide pill available to anyone who asks.

News to me.
I know we have to wait for a lot of treatment, but I have not be denied any, or offered any end of life pills recently.

PS. It's Great Britains NHS. not England's
Best not upset the Jocks, Taff's, or N.Paddy's.

[Blackbird45]

This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.

[jedalton]

I agree, a few States do have that

[Softball77]

I believe AHCD (Advanced Health Care Directive) helps some. At least that allows you to pull the plug. Family discussion should include these options and try to honor the patients desires regarding quality of life etc.

[MandoMan]

Just curious, which religion dictates cruel suffering before death? We shoot horses when they can’t recover for humane reasons, are we less kind to people?

The same ones that promise cruel suffering after death for suicides and won’t let them be buried in “holy ground”. Need we name them?

Here’s what Kurt Vonnegut wrote in his novel “God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater”:

“ There was a serious overpopulation problem, too. All serious diseases had been conquered. So death was voluntary, and the government, to encourage volunteers for death, set up a purple-roofed Ethical Suicide Parlor at every major intersection, right next door to an orange-roofed Howard Johnson's. There were pretty hostesses in the parlor, and Barca-Loungers, and Muzak, and a choice of fourteen painless ways to die. The suicide parlors were busy places, because so many people felt silly and pointless, and because it was supposed to be an unselfish, patriotic thing to do, to die. The suicides also got free last meals next door. And so on. Trout had a wonderful imagination. One of the characters asked a death stewardess if he would go to Heaven, and she told him that of course he would. He asked if he would see God, and she said, "Certainly, honey." And he said, "I sure hope so. I want to ask Him something I never was able to find out down here." "What's that?" she said, strapping him in. "What in hell are people for?” ”

We need an Ethical Suicide Parlor here in The Villages.

[Blueblaze]

News to me.
I know we have to wait for a lot of treatment, but I have not be denied any, or offered any end of life pills recently.

PS. It's Great Britains NHS. not England's
Best not upset the Jocks, Taff's, or N.Paddy's.

Well, if you're British and dying of an expensive disease that the NHS is paying for, I guess you'd know better than me. I'm just basing my opinion on what I have read, and my own personal experience -- of sitting with an employee all night while she writhed on a bed in a cloth cubical in a ward as big as a gymnasium, waiting for a doctor who never came, while my secretary was on the phone to our sleeping HR department back home in Tulsa, trying to rouse someone who could agree to have her moved to the real (i.e. private) hospital across the street.

When morning in Tulsa came, we finally managed to get her moved, and discovered the source of her agony. She'd had a tubal pregnancy, which had burst. She spent the next three weeks in the hospital, fighting a peritonitis infection, before she came home, unable to ever get pregnant again.

But maybe the NHS just rations healthcare in the case of American workers installing software in their company's London office. I'm sure they'd never offer you a death pill (or a gurney in a gymnasium) instead of a cure.

[Michael 61]

As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.

[lindaelane]

I
Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

\

Honest question after doctors and nurses sometimes withheld prescribed pain medicine from my mother before hospice, but not after (her particular hospice had no social workers for the 4 days she was in hospice):

Are you saying doctors commonly withhold adequate pain medication after a person is in hospice? It is very wrong to withhold it anytime it is needed, but I've always comforted myself with the idea that once I am enrolled in hospice, I won't be refused meds. Am I incorrect? Does this commonly happen to people in hospice?

I know nursing homes are such horrible suffering. I've never understood why visitors don't see this. I saw it every time I visited, but everyone else seemed ok with whatever happened - I guess because a medical professional had OK'd itj, or because it is psychology for many/most to block out what we can't bear..

[Villagesgal]

Move to Oregon, they have an assisted suicide law. It has been in effect fir over 10 years. Many doctors there are sympathetic to this and will help their patients end their lives with dignity.

[Fastskiguy]

As a veterinarian, I'm not sure assisted suicide is as straightforward in humans as it is in animals. I mean...in theory it's the same but with animals everyone is "on the same page". From what I've observed of kids taking care of their elderly parents, occasionally people aren't on the same page and sometimes there is a malicious intent because of past trauma, inheritance money, or whatever. One of my friends, one of 5 kids, was just ram rodded into putting her dad into memory care. He was doing fine at his lake house with a caretaker, living a good life. But the lake house is worth a couple mil and some of the kids "could really use that inheritance now" <-one of them actually said that! So you can see where this is going "Dad is forgetting stuff, let's off him" and down the slippery slope we go.

Still....when the prognosis is grave and the patient is suffering, the gift of a painless death surrounded by loved ones is a wonderful thing. I hope it happens, somehow.

Joe

[airstreamingypsy]

As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.

This is why people are leaving the churches in droves. Christianity is a cruel religion, the idea that you have come to terms with human suffering says it all.

[JWGifford]

Thank you for that resource.

[airstreamingypsy]

I watched someone commit suicide on TV. He was terminally ill, and chose the date based on the pain he was in. His family and friends had a farewell party the night before. The next morning it was just his family. He drank some liquid and lay on the couch, with his wife sitting next to him. About 20 minutes later he was gone. He lived on the west coast. It was peaceful, and legal and his doctor gave him the concoction he drank. I didn't know there was a pill.

The end of life is a gift we give out beloved pets, so they don't suffer. It's cruel to allow humans to suffer.

[kimmerlie]

I am a retired hospice nurse. I still give presentations about good end-of-life care to clubs, organizations churches, and anyone that will listen.I do not charge for this. I have cared for 100's of dying people. We know how to manage pain, control, the other symptoms experienced by the patient, and support the caregivers. We have sent patients on vacations and helped them enjoy life again. This is a free service paid for by Medicare, Medicaid, or private insurance. My book, "Spirit Matters: How to Remain Fully Alive with a Life-Limiting Illness" is full of stories and information about what a "good"dying looks like and how it can be achieved with the help of hospice.

[petsetc]

Here is a link to a description of the purposed Florida Death With Dignity Act.
Please note all the requirements and timelines including the patient must self administer the drugs.

Death With Dignity in Florida | Nolo (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/death-with-dignity-florida.html)

[chrisinva]

Religious Groups’ Views on End-of-Life Issues | Pew Research Center - What an excellent, clear, informative resource with additionals links & references for more info. Thank you very much!

[Michael 61]

This is why people are leaving the churches in droves. Christianity is a cruel religion, the idea that you have come to terms with human suffering says it all.

I respectfully completely 100% disagree with you.

[Two Bills]

As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.

Good luck with your choice..
Personally I would prefer lots of morphine or stronger drugs, but then I am not a believer.

[SallyB]

This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I agree with you, we should be able to say enough is enough. When a horse breaks its leg, it is put down immediately no matter the value of the horse and yet humans are left to suffer.
Again, I am very sorry about your wife.

[Tvflguy]

Here is a link to a description of the purposed Florida Death With Dignity Act.
Please note all the requirements and timelines including the patient must self administer the drugs.

Death With Dignity in Florida | Nolo (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/death-with-dignity-florida.html)

THANK YOU for this link. I will be contacting our State Reps to Try to push this thru. Hopefully The Villages folks will do the same if you feel strongly about this as I do.

[Jerry101]

You could never be a Christian then. The whole point of that religion is that a rabbi made a lot of statements that were unpopular to the local government, and riled up what amounts to a peace and love rally that really got under their skin. So they vilified him and flogged him over 100 times, then forced him to carry his own cross to the place of his death, where he was then nailed to the cross, his hands and feet bound, with a crown of thorns on his head, and made to die slowly, up there on that cross. He suffered as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone else.

And now we have all these christians glorifying this sacrifice with bloody-painted statues of jesus hanging from crosses over the bedrooms of America.

That's just Christianity. Other religions have similar.

It's why I reject the religiosity of my upbringing, but embrace the cultural, ethnic, and traditional aspects of Judiaism instead.

By faith Christians believe … the cross is empty … Jesus Christ did indeed die for our sins … he was buried … but God raised him from the dead … and He gave US the great commission to tell that story! He will come again in glory … and EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that he is LORD!

… that is Christianity!

[Barkriver]

And a Howard Johnson's!

[SusanStCatherine]

A relative of mine living in Florida was diagnosed with end stage pancreatic cancer. She decided against chemo. Her doctor would not prescribe medical marajuana for some reason and I found this rediculous. Someone obtained and gave her the medical marajuana. She seemed so much more comfortable and even happy on it. She even lived longer than the doctor said she would - don't think he ever knew. Be your own health care advocate, do research, try different things, and don't be afraid to switch doctors.

[Blueblaze]

THANK YOU for this link. I will be contacting our State Reps to Try to push this thru. Hopefully The Villages folks will do the same if you feel strongly about this as I do.

I would fully support this law, if it included a provision that doctors must never be required or coerced into doing it. Since it apparently has no provision for a doctor's conscience, I could not support it as written.

Even with the provision, it will become a slippery slope to routine euthanasia, exactly like we do with animals. We are not animals.

As I look back on all the pets in my life, I realize that the majority of those lives ended with euthanasia, and I can't honestly say for certain that none of them were for my own convenience. Our last dog was merely very old, and probably merely suffered the same arthritic pains we all feel all the time. He was on a lot of pain meds. He seemed very sad and tired of living, but I have often wondered what his answer would have been if I could have asked him if he wanted to die. He adored me, and I worry that his answer might have been that any pain was worth another minute with me, just holding his head.

If we do this, we must go into it knowing that it is a slippery slope. We must resolve to prevent it from ever becoming anything like the 12 horses killed at the Kentucky Derby this year, for merely having an injury that required more money to fix than the horse was worth -- or even like the involuntary release from pain that I gave to my dog Shiner.

[Velvet]

You could never be a Christian then. The whole point of that religion is that a rabbi made a lot of statements that were unpopular to the local government, and riled up what amounts to a peace and love rally that really got under their skin. So they vilified him and flogged him over 100 times, then forced him to carry his own cross to the place of his death, where he was then nailed to the cross, his hands and feet bound, with a crown of thorns on his head, and made to die slowly, up there on that cross. He suffered as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone else.

And now we have all these christians glorifying this sacrifice with bloody-painted statues of jesus hanging from crosses over the bedrooms of America.

That's just Christianity. Other religions have similar.

It's why I reject the religiosity of my upbringing, but embrace the cultural, ethnic, and traditional aspects of Judiaism instead.

Well I consider myself a Christian, leaning towards Judaism, or perhaps nondenominational, or ecumenical. I studied the nature of God for years from many different beliefs and I think each religion has a bit of understanding of it, but none seem to know everything. In my years of study and search I did not find a cruel God, a person or thing that is less kind than we human beings can be. I believe people in the past and present try their best to understand the Creator and in the process they interpret things and come up with untenable ideas, attributing it to the Creator.

[Velvet]

This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.

I see that as a problem, one that several of our current religions don’t seem to address with compassion.

[Velvet]

As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.

Yes, but when you are in agony it is not sanctity of life it is unusually cruel punishment. We don’t do that to prisoners we put in isolation.

[Karmanng]

Agree totally. Often that is the last truly informed decision a person can make, and it seems criminal to take that opportunity away.

Mom did it right. At 85 he was a recent cancer survivor (surgery took a lot out of her), living with a bad heart (triple bypass and a pacemaker) and severe arthritis and accompanying ambulation problems meant that she was basically non-ambulatory except for a few steps now and again. Fortunately her mind was unimpaired. One day she took a tumble and suffered a compound fracture of both leg bones just above the ankle. She knew she'd never walk again, and on top of her other issues she decided she'd had enough. She and my sister, whom she lived with at the time, discussed everything and Mom decided to call the pacemaker company and have them turn it off. Let nature take it's course. Next morning, she was dead.

I hope I have those kinds of guts and clarity of thinking, when it becomes my turn.

WOW first sorry for your loss and wow that is kinda extreme to turn it off!

[kendi]

I worked in hospitals and nursing homes my entire career. I've watched perhaps a thousand people die of terminal illnesses- some of which were horrific.

The battle cry of opponents of Assisted Suicide is to claim that "Effective Pain Management" will give the person a comfortable journey through their battle. The only times I've seen Effective Pain Management is in the final days or hours of life. Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

Some oppose assisted suicide for religious reasons- If your religion tells you to suffer in horrible pain then go ahead. But your religion should dictate how I should bring an end to my agony.

I've watch patients slowly suffocate to death. I've had countless patients beg for more medication, and some beg me to kill them. This is the real world of hospitals and nursing homes folks. It isn't like the television ads and brochures. When you drive by a nursing home you should be aware that there is likely horrible suffering inside.

The avg doc does not have the skill to control the pain. Plus they put their license in jeopardy to prescribe doses that high. Palliative care professionals are specially trained to know how to alleviate the pain. And you don’t have to be in hospice to receive this care. Might have to search hard for a good palliative care doc though.

[scooterstang]

The real big problem is if you do commit suicide then your life insurance is normally voided out.

[Velvet]

The real big problem is if you do commit suicide then your life insurance is normally voided out.

For who is it a big problem? Once you’re gone, can’t use the money. And you can set up trust funds instead for those who are alive.

I’m not advocating suicide. Or murder. Only compassion, when we can’t help a person any more.

[lindaelane]

I did not mean I expected to see people acting upset at the bed of their loved one.

[bsloan1960]

This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.

I'm so sorry for your loss and the painful experiences you endured with your wife's illness.

[bsloan1960]

Honest question after doctors and nurses sometimes withheld prescribed pain medicine from my mother before hospice, but not after (her particular hospice had no social workers for the 4 days she was in hospice):


Some people have at-home hospice care where nurses and doctors concentrate on comfort and pain relief without oversight by people who have advanced degrees in questioning doctor's decisions. Most hospice care is provided in a nursing home by Nursing Home Staff and Doctors- The same staff and doctors that are caring for you before your Status is changed to Hospice.

Your nursing home care changes very little- with the Hospice status being mostly a bookkeeping designation. For the most part you will continue to get the same medications and dosages you did before your status change. Increased medication will usually occur only in the final days of your life. Again- doctor's hands are tied by social workers and state and federal agencies that do yearly inspections and insist that a patient who is "Snowed" by pain medication is being denied quality of life.

I watched this happen 99% of the time over my 50 year career.

[mntlblok]

Some people have at-home hospice care where nurses and doctors concentrate on comfort and pain relief without oversight by people who have advanced degrees in questioning doctor's decisions. Most hospice care is provided in a nursing home by Nursing Home Staff and Doctors- The same staff and doctors that are caring for you before your Status is changed to Hospice.

Your nursing home care changes very little- with the Hospice status being mostly a bookkeeping designation. For the most part you will continue to get the same medications and dosages you did before your status change. Increased medication will usually occur only in the final days of your life. Again- doctor's hands are tied by social workers and state and federal agencies that do yearly inspections and insist that a patient who is "Snowed" by pain medication is being denied quality of life.

I watched this happen 99% of the time over my 50 year career.

Wow. :-(

[mntlblok]

Religious Groups’ Views on End-of-Life Issues | Pew Research Center - What an excellent, clear, informative resource with additionals links & references for more info. Thank you very much!

Found it. Religious Groups’ Views on End-of-Life Issues | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/)

[JMintzer]

The real big problem is if you do commit suicide then your life insurance is normally voided out.

Normally, it is NOT voided... Only if the policy was purchased in the last 2 years (give or take)...

Most people do not plan their suicide out that far in advance...

[coffeebean]

By faith Christians believe … the cross is empty … Jesus Christ did indeed die for our sins … he was buried … but God raised him from the dead … and He gave US the great commission to tell that story! He will come again in glory … and EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that he is LORD!

… that is Christianity!

Still waiting for him to "come again in glory". Don't think it will happen. Hasn't happened so far.

[coffeebean]

~~~

[PersonOfInterest]

By faith Christians believe … the cross is empty … Jesus Christ did indeed die for our sins … he was buried … but God raised him from the dead … and He gave US the great commission to tell that story! He will come again in glory … and EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that he is LORD!

… that is Christianity!

Christians will suffer and endure the pain and be happy to do so. The family of those suffering should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family. God knows how much pain and suffering he wants you to endure. He will take you when he is ready for you. It is not your place to interfere with his timing of your departure. You may pray during your suffering and seek a miracle recovery. God will listen and may grant that miracle if there is sufficient supportive prayer and a compelling request.

[Two Bills]

Christians will suffer and endure the pain and be happy to do so. The family of those suffering should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family. God knows how much pain and suffering he wants you to endure. He will take you when he is ready for you. It is not your place to interfere with his timing of your departure. You may pray during your suffering and seek a miracle recovery. God will listen and may grant that miracle if there is sufficient supportive prayer and a compelling request.

I am sorry, but I find it incredible that someone could actually be brainwashed into such belief.
I think that is a truly sad post.

[JoelJohnson]

My mother had Alzheimer's, toward the end she "forgot" how to eat and we couldn't get her to take anything. A few days later she stopped drinking anything. A few days after that we got the call that she was close to death. We went over and I held her hand as she died. Is that how she wanted to go? I don't think so, but we had (and she) had no choice. I still cry over those last few moments.

[Nellmack]

This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.

I'm very sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing. I went through a similar situation and it's not easy.

[Whitley]

The real big problem is if you do commit suicide then your life insurance is normally voided out.

Mine has a 6month suicide claus. Not sure if that is normal or not. It also restricts certain activities.

[Velvet]

I’m not sure who started the idea of sadistic goodness, that there is something holy about suffering, but I don’t think it came from the Creator because all living things try to avoid suffering.

[Velvet]

Still waiting for him to "come again in glory". Don't think it will happen. Hasn't happened so far.

My personal understanding of Christianity is that the reason why there are two testaments, is because the old way that is the Jewish way, is very difficult. It is not that it doesn’t work, or that God has changed, it is that for too many people it is hard to do all that is required. To make it easier there was an “amendment” so to speak, allowed, the new testament, where through Christ’s death it became much easier to be cleansed to enter the presence. But one way is not necessarily “better” than the other way.

[ThirdOfFive]

A relative of mine living in Florida was diagnosed with end stage pancreatic cancer. She decided against chemo. Her doctor would not prescribe medical marajuana for some reason and I found this rediculous. Someone obtained and gave her the medical marajuana. She seemed so much more comfortable and even happy on it. She even lived longer than the doctor said she would - don't think he ever knew. Be your own health care advocate, do research, try different things, and don't be afraid to switch doctors.
Yep.

My daughter is a nurse. She knows my end-of-life wishes and I have no doubt that she will see to it that they are followed.

[ThirdOfFive]

I’m not sure who started the idea of sadistic goodness, that there is something holy about suffering, but I don’t think it came from the Creator because all living things try to avoid suffering.
Suffering, from the perspective of Mama Nature, is a good thing. We do whatever we can to avoid or alleviate pain and by so doing we (assumedly) prolong our lives. Just think of what the world would be like if, say, getting toasted to a cinder in a fire felt orgasmically good?

[airstreamingypsy]

Still waiting for him to "come again in glory". Don't think it will happen. Hasn't happened so far.

Don't hold your breath.

[airstreamingypsy]

Christians will suffer and endure the pain and be happy to do so. The family of those suffering should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family. God knows how much pain and suffering he wants you to endure. He will take you when he is ready for you. It is not your place to interfere with his timing of your departure. You may pray during your suffering and seek a miracle recovery. God will listen and may grant that miracle if there is sufficient supportive prayer and a compelling request.

Yeah, no. You are welcome to suffer because you believe in something unbelievable.... but please don't make others suffer unnecessarily. 'Christians will suffer and endue the pain and be happy to do so. Family members should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family." I'm sorry, that's demented..... I'm glad I wasn't raised in a family that thought this way.

[PugMom]

it's very easy to speculate, but i promise you won't be able to make that choice until it's staring you in the face. everything looks much different from there.

[Sandy and Ed]

A thought came upon me when reading about the apparent recent TV murder and suicide.

As I age, I can perceive a time when an elderly person receives the "terminal" news from docs. And close to "the end point" enduring extreme pain as your body, and perhaps mind, slowly declines.

Provided some serious meds to alleviate some of that pain, but still. And the inevitable continues - many days or weeks with your family watching no quality of LIFE impacting your loved one laying there. Enduring rough emotions and expending $$$$$.

My choice at that point would be an understanding with loved ones that I CHOOSE to determine the time and method of my End when I want to. When there is absolutely NO hope. And possibly "live out" the inevitable in a coma/vegetative state or such. IMO NOT fair to ME or the Family. MY Choice would be a Dignified end of life. Our society endures so much which endangers healthy life. We should have a law that provides for a dignified death within strict regulations. period.

There are several USA states that passed a Bill covering this. Florida, not yet.
Totally agree. Many have no family members to monitor their care in nursing homes. Humane painless death a better way to go. Hell even death row inmates leave this world more humanely than a slow death in a nursing home surrounded by strangers

[kimmerlie]

Hospice care is comfort care. Most hospice care is done in a person's home.Until you know what good end-of-life looks like you really don't have the knowledge to state "your feelings". If you want to learn I am an exert, on the subject, and give free presentations in The Villages. Please see my website: Spirit Matters - About (http://www.spiritmattersauthor.com)

[Blackbird45]

I'm so sorry for your loss and the painful experiences you endured with your wife's illness.

Thank you I buried my wife yesterday in New York.

[Blackbird45]

I'm very sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing. I went through a similar situation and it's not easy.

Thank you I buried my wife yesterday in New York.

[Blackbird45]

I am so sorry for your loss.
I agree with you, we should be able to say enough is enough. When a horse breaks its leg, it is put down immediately no matter the value of the horse and yet humans are left to suffer.
Again, I am very sorry about your wife.

Thank you I buried my wife yesterday in New York.

[Blueblaze]

Totally agree. Many have no family members to monitor their care in nursing homes. Humane painless death a better way to go. Hell even death row inmates leave this world more humanely than a slow death in a nursing home surrounded by strangers

Yes, but I think we owe it to our descendants to not leave them a world where, three generations from now, "death with dignity" has become "civic duty to die".

The moment we pass a law that gives one doctor the right to help people to die, without protecting another doctor's right to refuse, that's the road we're on.

I'm not willing to sacrifice the world my offspring will inherit for my own personal comfort.

[BlueStarAirlines]

The real big problem is if you do commit suicide then your life insurance is normally voided out.

Typically this is just in the first 1-3 years. I have two term policies and one limits payouts in two years and the other three years. Most people don't plan out suicides more than a year in advance, so once you get past that limitation the death payout is the same regardless of the manner of death.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Christians will suffer and endure the pain and be happy to do so. The family of those suffering should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family. God knows how much pain and suffering he wants you to endure. He will take you when he is ready for you. It is not your place to interfere with his timing of your departure. You may pray during your suffering and seek a miracle recovery. God will listen and may grant that miracle if there is sufficient supportive prayer and a compelling request.

Your god has already granted you a miracle. He gave humans the minds with which they could develop science, and remedies, and relief of pain, in addition to all that he provided through nature's bounty. He gave humans the decision-making processes necessary to determine whether or not they should be forced to endure suffering, and the ability to end it whenever they wanted, so long as they were unfettered and physically capable of doing so. And if that wasn't enough, he gave humans opposable thumbs and language, so they would write down or record their wishes, should there come a time when they would want their lives ended but be physically incapable of carrying out their decisions on their own.

You choose to ignore all that god has given you, in exchange for something you read in a book that may or may not have been written by anyone sane, over 1500 years ago.

Enjoy your suffering. When the time comes, if I feel I can't endure any more. I'll ask to be released from life.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Ten states and Washington DC all support "assisted suicide" as an option for the terminally ill. In addition, all states have DNR options and advanced healthcare directive (living will, durable power of attorney) options.

One of these days I'll fill out an advanced healthcare directive form, but I'm not ready to face my own mortality yet. I still think I'm going to live forever.

[JMintzer]

Your god has already granted you a miracle. He gave humans the minds with which they could develop science, and remedies, and relief of pain, in addition to all that he provided through nature's bounty. He gave humans the decision-making processes necessary to determine whether or not they should be forced to endure suffering, and the ability to end it whenever they wanted, so long as they were unfettered and physically capable of doing so. And if that wasn't enough, he gave humans opposable thumbs and language, so they would write down or record their wishes, should there come a time when they would want their lives ended but be physically incapable of carrying out their decisions on their own.

You choose to ignore all that god has given you, in exchange for something you read in a book that may or may not have been written by anyone sane, over 1500 years ago.

Enjoy your suffering. When the time comes, if I feel I can't endure any more. I'll ask to be released from life.

So tolerant...

[Veiragirl]

A thought came upon me when reading about the apparent recent TV murder and suicide.

As I age, I can perceive a time when an elderly person receives the "terminal" news from docs. And close to "the end point" enduring extreme pain as your body, and perhaps mind, slowly declines.

Provided some serious meds to alleviate some of that pain, but still. And the inevitable continues - many days or weeks with your family watching no quality of LIFE impacting your loved one laying there. Enduring rough emotions and expending $$$$$.

My choice at that point would be an understanding with loved ones that I CHOOSE to determine the time and method of my End when I want to. When there is absolutely NO hope. And possibly "live out" the inevitable in a coma/vegetative state or such. IMO NOT fair to ME or the Family. MY Choice would be a Dignified end of life. Our society endures so much which endangers healthy life. We should have a law that provides for a dignified death within strict regulations. period.

There are several USA states that passed a Bill covering this. Florida, not yet.

Totally agree!!!

[NavyVet]

Christians will suffer and endure the pain and be happy to do so. The family of those suffering should be willing to suffer along with the ailing member of the family. God knows how much pain and suffering he wants you to endure. He will take you when he is ready for you. It is not your place to interfere with his timing of your departure. You may pray during your suffering and seek a miracle recovery. God will listen and may grant that miracle if there is sufficient supportive prayer and a compelling request.

This is one of the most INSANE things I have ever read.
Just another piece of evidence that it is religion (not money) that is the root of most of the evil in the world. SMH

[Whitley]

There are other types of suffering, suffering other than physical pain. When someone feels they can not endure the suffering of mental illness, poverty or lack of love, (Or even harder the pain of losing a loved one), should the option exist to legally end your life then as well. There are many variables that exist with this topic. While fighting stage 3 can, there were days I felt I could not go on. I begged my wife to please let me just stay in bed. Looking back, I am not able to understand how I was thinking back then. Today, feeling better (Beat the c but have pain from the procedures), I can not comprehend how I could have been ready to give up. I am glad my wife quite literally dragged me from the bed, by my foot to the chemo. Had to explain the large lump on the back of my head to the doctor. Life, unfortunately, comes with pain at times. I find emotional pain more difficult than physical. Making it acceptable to throw in the towel would, in my opinion, lead to the end of lives that may have much more to contribute.

[Velvet]

There are other types of suffering, suffering other than physical pain. When someone feels they can not endure the suffering of mental illness, poverty or lack of love, (Or even harder the pain of losing a loved one), should the option exist to legally end your life then as well. There are many variables that exist with this topic. While fighting stage 3 can, there were days I felt I could not go on. I begged my wife to please let me just stay in bed. Looking back, I am not able to understand how I was thinking back then. Today, feeling better (Beat the c but have pain from the procedures), I can not comprehend how I could have been ready to give up. I am glad my wife quite literally dragged me from the bed, by my foot to the chemo. Had to explain the large lump on the back of my head to the doctor. Life, unfortunately, comes with pain at times. I find emotional pain more difficult than physical. Making it acceptable to throw in the towel would, in my opinion, lead to the end of lives that may have much more to contribute.

Yes, but it is YOUR life. I understand there may be moments of giving up and being helped through at those times is appreciated later. We are talking about a different situation. We are talking about when there is no foreseeable help to have any quality of life. And, in my opinion, it is NOT up to someone else to decide for you what happens to you.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

True story: once upon a time there was a man named Tucker Stilley. He was a musician and a multi-media artist, and successful in the film editing business with his wife, who was also an accomplished film editor. They had a gorgeous daughter. And then he was diagnosed with ALS.

He prepared for it, gathered his friends and family to help him get through the trauma of slowly becoming a "brain in a jar". He was only 30-something when he was diagnosed. He passed away just two years ago, at age 60 (we were the same age). He spent more than 10 of those years in bed, immobile, unable to speak, eat, or breathe on his own, with tubes for feeding and waste, using a thing called an "eyewriter" and an overhead computer to communicate (sometimes one letter for each word at a time) and do art. By the end, he only had the use of one eye, which made communicating especially difficult.

I - would not have been able to live like that. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of other people who knew him, family, friends, admirers, co-workers, teachers, neighbors. He also had financial support through donations, since disability didn't cover his home care at first, and the costs for oxygen, tubes, health monitor machines, the hospital bed, 24/7 nurses (not merely home care - actual RNs) exceeded $10,000 per month. But I know that if I was informed that my last days would be spent as a brain in a jar, I would want to end it before it progressed that far. I wouldn't be able to handle it at all. If you've ever read Frank Herbert's Dune series, it'd basically be a Guild Navigator in a ship out in space, in mid-fold, that didn't ever actually go anywhere.

I'd likely tell them - once I'm no longer able to breathe or eat without tubes in my neck and stomach - it's time to let me go. I can't even imagine - and I've tried. I wanted to empathize with Tucker. But I just was incapable of it. I can't imagine it. He was amazing. Created art, which was replicated by a host of volunteer assistants who took the digitalized artwork and brought it to life in galleries for sale (which also helped support him and his care).

His daughter has no memory of him being healthy. She just graduated from college. An amazing family. But - that's a true story of what someone -could- do, should they choose to stick with it to the end. You need some serious fortitude to withstand that kind of existence I think. But Tucker certainly had that.