July 1 Law

[Normal]

Bill 1718 comes into effect soon. Pool companies, landscaping companies, driveway pavers and even Villages Construction groups will have to use E-Verify or face stiff financial penalties and further prosecution. If you are thinking of one of these projects…get er done! Employers can be fined 1,000 dollars per worker, per day if they violate the new immigration law.

[golfing eagles]

Bill 1718 comes into effect soon. Pool companies, landscaping companies, driveway pavers and even Villages Construction groups will have to use E-Verify or face stiff financial penalties and further prosecution. If you are thinking of one of these projects…get er done! Employers can be fined 1,000 dollars per worker, per day if they violate the new immigration law.

Why???? So you can hurry up and support illegal aliens?????

[Normal]

Why???? So you can hurry up and support illegal aliens?????
Not really, some are in the middle of completing projects without the realization of the new law that was signed in May. We hadn’t really thought of it because the norm has always been the other way. But, I certainly see your point😀

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Interesting to check your personal response:

A) Get the job finished before the labor pool shrinks and costs more
B) follow the rules first, and the system will work for everybody equally . .

Now if your response is an A response, think about why:
most likely its low cost and an acceptable small wait period due to abundant cheap labor
you personally feel good about getting good value for your dollar and in a reasonable time

Now if your response is a B response, think about why:
most likely its about the fairness, equality, country, control

Now thinks about why the two are in conflict in your mind:
When I apply for a management job, I have to provide legal identification and proof of eligibility to work
After I fill out the form, I feel its a pain in the ass, but some comfort that there are eligibility gates for people coming for your income.

But when I am paying out for the job, I prefer good value, cheap labor who performs well.
I don't care about the labor details of the people, as long as its cheap and well done.

Your typical human response is B is good for the country and the citizens, but A is good for me. .
The national economic strategy is best value for your hard earned money. . but does how enter your decision?


This is how most people think/feel. . but if you have to pick one, which do you pick?
everyone follows the rules, no special treatment or loopholes, or good value for your hard earned money, the cheaper the better no matter how its achieved?

if you take the time to really analyze the source of your thoughts and feelings,
they might well be in conflict as described above. . . which should make BOTH sides of your brain hurt

just food for thought about your social contract when buying services.

[Papa_lecki]

Interesting to check your personal response:

A) Get the job finished before the labor pool shrinks and costs more
B) follow the rules first, and the system will work for everybody equally . .

Or Option C

C) fix the legal immigration system so this class of workers can come into the country legally, based on the need in the country.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Or Option C

C) fix the legal immigration system so this class of workers can come into the country legally, based on the need in the country.

That requires answer B with central planning, ie, the CCP model, based upon the need of the country. Answer C is an avoidance of the question, with abstract goals, typical senior management answer where the solution and execution doesn't work. .

next

[CoachKandSportsguy]

:boom:
To circumvent vent the law, but not answering the question, my former HR Director wife's answer to Bill 1718 is to avoid contracting with companies and hire the illegal alien directly, paying with cash under the table, of course.

ymmv

[retiredguy123]

Bill 1718 comes into effect soon. Pool companies, landscaping companies, driveway pavers and even Villages Construction groups will have to use E-Verify or face stiff financial penalties and further prosecution. If you are thinking of one of these projects…get er done! Employers can be fined 1,000 dollars per worker, per day if they violate the new immigration law.
Note that the law will only apply to employers with 25 or more employees. I suspect that larger companies will circumvent the law by hiring smaller companies to do a lot of their work.

[JoelJohnson]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.

[Keefelane66]

Bill 1718 comes into effect soon. Pool companies, landscaping companies, driveway pavers and even Villages Construction groups will have to use E-Verify or face stiff financial penalties and further prosecution. If you are thinking of one of these projects…get er done! Employers can be fined 1,000 dollars per worker, per day if they violate the new immigration law.
It affects employers with over 25 employees.

[Kelevision]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.

:bigbow:

This was clearly written a long time ago……..

The United States prides itself on being a nation of immigrants, and the country has a long history of successfully absorbing people from across the globe. The integration of immigrants and their children contributes to our economic vitality and our vibrant and ever changing culture.

[Bay Kid]

I heard our new illegals aren't allowed to work for 1 year, we just take of them?

[Arctic Fox]

I have always wondered why The Villages uses contractors for much of the regular work - pool and landscape maintenance in particular.

How can it be cheaper, when each operation must employ dozens of people full time, to farm them out to third party companies?

[retiredguy123]

I have always wondered why The Villages uses contractors for much of the regular work - pool and landscape maintenance in particular.

How can it be cheaper, when each operation must employ dozens of people full time, to farm them out to third party companies?
The Villages even hires a licensed electrical contractor to change the light bulbs. This could probably be done by one Villages employee.

[retiredguy123]

I understand that an E-Verify check is easy and can be done in a few minutes. So, why would the law apply only to companies with 25 or more employees? Are they trying to discriminate against large companies? Or, are they encouraging small companies to violate the law by hiring illegals. It seems to defy logic.

[Arctic Fox]

I understand that an E-Verify check is easy and can be done in a few minutes. So, why would the law apply only to companies with 25 or more employees? It seems to defy logic.

Will be interesting to see how many companies currently employing >25 will split into several companies employing <25

[retiredguy123]

My guess is that there will be almost no enforcement of the law, like other Florida laws.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get my $500 for every telemarketing phone call I receive, as per another unenforceable law.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand that an E-Verify check is easy and can be done in a few minutes. So, why would the law apply only to companies with 25 or more employees? Are they trying to discriminate against large companies? Or, are they encouraging small companies to violate the law by hiring illegals. It seems to defy logic.

Seems to me they're encouraging large companies to "pass the buck" by subcontracting to smaller companies, thus driving up prices as the larger companies become the middle-man and take their cut of the tab.

Home Depot already does this, and has been doing it for ages. When you buy new flooring from Home Depot and it includes installation, the 3 guys who come to your house aren't Home Depot employees. They're subcontractors who typically work for a company with fewer than 10 employees total.

If the guys are your house are undocumented immigrants, YOU won't ever know. Because they're not obligated to show their "papers" to YOU.

[Number 10 GI]

Back in the early 2000's, if I remember the time frame correctly, while living in Tennessee, there was a labor shortage in the state and in particular the larger cities. There were a number of news reports about the shortage and one that was interesting was a restaurant in Nashville was having difficulty hiring and keeping a dish washer. The restaurant had to pay a college student $10.00 an hour to take the job. At that time that was a pretty good hourly rate for that area. Granted there were no benefits but for a college student it paid more money than a lot of other service industry jobs. It wasn't too much later that the city was flooded with illegals who worked for a lot less an hour than a legal citizen would accept and a lot of legal citizens lost jobs.
About 8 years ago, while still living in Tennessee, we had to have a new roof on our house. We contracted with a roofer to have the work done. The guy doing the roofing work for the contractor had been a roofing contractor himself just year earlier. All his competition laid off their legal citizen workers and hired illegals. They were paying less than what a citizen would work for and were able to underbid him because he refused to hire illegals, employing only citizens that cost more in labor. His business folded as he refused to hire illegals.
I worked in real estate for a couple years in the late 80's. When I toured new construction, the workers building the new homes were American citizens. That all changed in the early 2000's when illegals started flooding the area. The only legal citizens on the work sites were the contractor and his foreman and the electricians and plumbers because they required licensing which was very difficult for an illegal to obtain. All these jobs for legal citizens were lost because the illegals work for less money.
They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.
The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.
My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.

[Keefelane66]

Will be interesting to see how many companies currently employing >25 will split into several companies employing <25
Bingo

[CoachKandSportsguy]

This take/analysis is post on correct the key is highlighted in bold


. . . They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.
The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.
My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.

Absolutely correct, so the result is that the MSM paid by corporations or who get their income from corporates tell you the story with a slight of words that Americans don't want to be hired or work.

what you read is not always the real story or reasons, but ones that corporates who are willing to exploit anyone wants you to hear.

Corps only want a 30-30-30 employee
30 years old
30 years experience
$30K per year

Fooq that!

[Skunky1]

Stupid law with all the fancy frills with no teeth!

[maggie1]

. The restaurant had to pay a college student $10.00 an hour to take the job. At that time that was a pretty good hourly rate for that area. Granted there were no benefits but for a college student it paid more money than a lot of other service industry jobs. It wasn't too much later that the city was flooded with illegals who worked for a lot less an hour than a legal citizen would accept and a lot of legal citizens lost jobs.

They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.

The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.

My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.[/QUOTE]

And yet with all of the so-called job loss due to illegal immigrants stealing our work, we still enjoy an average of 3% unemployment. I don't see how the illegals are hurting our economy or stealing work. How about a kid making $20 an hour to work at Mcdonald's? It's no wonder a Big Mac and fries are around $10 a meal. There's work out there for anyone who looks for it. The problem is we have many that would rather stay home and collect unemployment instead of working. Too many people believe they are owed something in life, and I say that we owe them nothing.

[ithos]

Or Option C

C) fix the legal immigration system so this class of workers can come into the country legally, based on the need in the country.

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

This country has had a long and very successful history of setting immigration policies to match employment needs. It resulted in decades of rising standard of living and creating the greatest industrial power in the world. We won WW2 primarily because of our ability to produce armaments.

In the three years following the Battle of Midway, the Japanese built six aircraft carriers. The U.S. built 17. American industry provided almost two-thirds of all the Allied military equipment produced during the war: 297,000 aircraft, 193,000 artillery pieces, 86,000 tanks and two million army trucks. In four years, American industrial production, already the world's largest, doubled in size.
War Production | The War | Ken Burns | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-war/war-production)

And we did that with LEGAL immigration.

Considering that we have a massive welfare state that offers free education, medical care, and so much more, the de facto policy of today that all 8 billion people in the world have a implicit right to come our country with virtually no screening is INSANE!

[Jazzman]

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

This country has had a long and very successful history of setting immigration policies to match employment needs. It resulted in decades of rising standard of living and creating the greatest industrial power in the world. We won WW2 primarily because of our ability to produce armaments.

In the three years following the Battle of Midway, the Japanese built six aircraft carriers. The U.S. built 17. American industry provided almost two-thirds of all the Allied military equipment produced during the war: 297,000 aircraft, 193,000 artillery pieces, 86,000 tanks and two million army trucks. In four years, American industrial production, already the world's largest, doubled in size.
War Production | The War | Ken Burns | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-war/war-production)

And we did that with LEGAL immigration.

Considering that we have a massive welfare state that offers free education, medical care, and so much more, the de facto policy of today that all 8 billion people in the world have a implicit right to come our country with virtually no screening is INSANE!

It is evident that the only “immigrants” who have the right are those coming across the southern border. Those pending real immigrants , the ones being mistreated are those from other countries who applied for legal immigration by applying at a US embassy. They are the ones being mistreated as they are waiting years to legally enter the country. As we all know, if you arrive on an international flight or ship from a foreign country, try getting past US Customs at port of entry without the proper legal documents. You can’t.

[Rzepecki]

Originally Posted by JoelJohnson View Post
We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.


This was clearly written a long time ago……..

The United States prides itself on being a nation of immigrants, and the country has a long history of successfully absorbing people from across the globe. The integration of immigrants and their children contributes to our economic vitality and our vibrant and ever changing culture. QUOTE=Kelevision;2222810]:bigbow:

I wish, I wish, I wish . . .

Thank you. I felt so good reading your messages. Wish everyone remembered and lived this way.

[Zenmama18]

Note that the law will only apply to employers with 25 or more employees. I suspect that larger companies will circumvent the law by hiring smaller companies to do a lot of their work.

Or treat them as independent contractors.

[Bridget Staunton]

Papa Levi:
Exactly my sentiments, fix the law & if we need immigrants bring them in

[airstreamingypsy]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.

I completely agree and I'm happy to see this post. The problem is a large part of the population has been trained to be frightened of people who are not white and shiny because they are "rapists and murderers."

[airstreamingypsy]

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

WE DO NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. Those of us who don't have a problem with immigrants don’t want open borders, we just want immigration policies that make sense. A good place to start is admitting that we need immigrant labor. If you don’t think so talk to a farmer. In order for immigrants to stop acting as a wage suppressant, we might try treating them like human beings rather than things that exist purely for the purpose of exploitation.

Another part of the equation would be foreign policy objectives that seek to help stabilize the economies of countries where asylum-seekers are coming from. The current crisis on our southern border is due to intolerable living conditions in failing states in Central America. If we don’t deal with these tottering states the crisis will never end. Sometimes anyplace-else is better than where you are.

My friends want common sense immigration policies that treat immigrant labor with simple humanity rather than crass exploitation. This is a country built by immigrants. It seems to me that an immovable anti-immigrant position is just a denial of our historical legacy.

[Vermilion Villager]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.
CAUSE THIS IS AMERIKA!!!! WE DON'T DO THAT WOKE KIND OF THINKING HERE!
As far as providing an environment promoting peace, safety, to raise a family the Bible says:.....huh...oh wait...ah never mind:doh::doh:

[ithos]

I completely agree and I'm happy to see this post. The problem is a large part of the population has been trained to be frightened of people who are not white and shiny because they are "rapists and murderers."

I find that when people resort to ad hominem accusations in a discourse it is usually because they do not have logic, reason or facts to validate their opinion.

[Marine1974]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.
It’s already easy for these people to come into our country. Not all are willing to work because they are bring illegal and deadly drugs into our country and are human traffickers. 60 billion a year untaxed dollars are going back to Mexico . They use our services and don’t pay income taxes . Hope that helps you choose correctly.

[craiglittler]

The United States prides itself on LEGAL Immigrants, not ILLEGAL Immigrants who have broken our laws by not going through the legal process. They're criminals not citizens.

:bigbow:

This was clearly written a long time ago……..

The United States prides itself on being a nation of immigrants, and the country has a long history of successfully absorbing people from across the globe. The integration of immigrants and their children contributes to our economic vitality and our vibrant and ever changing culture.

[ithos]

WE DO NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. Those of us who don't have a problem with immigrants don’t want open borders, we just want immigration policies that make sense. A good place to start is admitting that we need immigrant labor. If you don’t think so talk to a farmer. In order for immigrants to stop acting as a wage suppressant, we might try treating them like human beings rather than things that exist purely for the purpose of exploitation.

Another part of the equation would be foreign policy objectives that seek to help stabilize the economies of countries where asylum-seekers are coming from. The current crisis on our southern border is due to intolerable living conditions in failing states in Central America. If we don’t deal with these tottering states the crisis will never end. Sometimes anyplace-else is better than where you are.

My friends want common sense immigration policies that treat immigrant labor with simple humanity rather than crass exploitation. This is a country built by immigrants. It seems to me that an immovable anti-immigrant position is just a denial of our historical legacy.

YES WE DO.
Border patrol chief says DHS does not have 'operational control' over southern border

Border patrol chief says DHS does not have 'operational control' over southern border | WCTI (https://wcti12.com/news/nation-world/border-patrol-chief-says-dhs-does-not-have-operational-control-over-southern-border-should-mexican-drug-cartels-be-designated-terror-groups-terrorist-organizations-mexican-sinaloa-el-chapo-terrorism-violence-meth-fentanyl-heroin-cocaine-marijuana)
And for the cartels it is great for business
Color-coded passage: Why smugglers are tagging U.S.-bound migrants with wristbands | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-border/color-coded-passage-why-smugglers-are-tagging-u-s-bound-migrants-with-wristbands-idUSKBN2B12E6)
And one of the obvious signs is the increase in overdoses.
Opioid Crisis Worse Now Than Ever: Drug Overdose Deaths Spike Amid Fentanyl Surge (https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2023/05/03/opioid-crisis-worse-now-than-ever-drug-overdose-deaths-spike-amid-fentanyl-surge/?sh=1b8dc9bc57c6)

[jim@jedward.com]

What is a social contract? Where can I get my executed copy?

[Heytubes]

One thing to note: the Department of Labor no longer includes those in their report people who have quit looking for work. Thus, 3% unemployment.

[Caymus]

One thing to note: the Department of Labor no longer includes those in their report people who have quit looking for work. Thus, 3% unemployment.

There are two main unemployment rates (U-3 and U-6). People no longer looking for work are included in the U-6 rate. That rate is over 6%.

[huge-pigeons]

Most of the illegals live off of our taxes for quite some time after they come into our country. Right now, NYC is putting the illegals up in expensive hotels, they are given money, phone, free health care, free school, etc.. all on our dime. Then some people want to hire illegals under the table so they don’t pay taxes. I think a lot of illegals don’t pay taxes mainly because if they don’t have a social security #, then they don’t pay taxes. Now congress is thinking about giving illegals social security when social security is going to run into financial issues in 2034.
Anybody living here, needs to work, pay taxes and pay into social security and before anybody gets a dime off the tax payers that work

[Blackbird45]

Almost all of the illegal who cross the border are coming here for a better life.
If you were in their shoes, you would do the same.
For a better life you need a job.
The people who are coming across the Rio Grande River know they will be employed before their clothes dry.
What needs to be done and will probably take about two years to implement is to bring social security cards into the 21st. century. Instead of that thin piece of card broad disintegrating in your wallet replace it with plastic with a chip and a strip.
I purchase something or a service person come over and swipes my card within minutes I receive an e-mail the vendors name and the amount.
Before an employer hire someone he will have to scan the employee's card. Also forget the $1,000 fine, make it 15K for each person working illegally and that not only border crosser that is also people working off the books. Whomever reports this activity will receive 1/2 of the total fine, even if it's an illegal. This is not a foreign concept; Texas is using a reward system like this to control abortions.
In the future these cards can replace a number of cards, it will even let you vote at your local ATM.
You take away the lure of employment and illegal immigrants will slow down to a trickle.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Only if you actually want to get the work done at all. Why???? So you can hurry up and support illegal aliens?????

[Battlebasset]

I completely agree and I'm happy to see this post. The problem is a large part of the population has been trained to be frightened of people who are not white and shiny because they are "rapists and murderers."

I wondered how long it would be before I saw this tired and false argument being used to paint anyone that doesn't support unfettered illegal immigration as just being against people of color. And I wasn't disappointed.

[Normal]

Anyone that is honest with themselves, knows how very blessed they were to be born on this side of a man made line called a border. Groups of political leaders decided where these country borders should be and they can change at any given time. People born on the other side of the line are equal in humanity in every way shape and form. They cross the “government” line and all of a sudden some think they are some kind of subhuman species.

At times I’m torn by the fact that I want to enjoy what I think I have built up for myself and the very fact that we are all human with the distinction of having made up borders. What gives me the right to say me first?

The law enacted on July 1 is a good one, because it establishes order. The more people we have, the more order we need. I also feel like I have no right to kick others out just because I was blessed enough to be born here and they got the short end of the proverbial stick.

[NoMoSno]

Canada must be an evil country (NOT) with these immigration requirements:
Documents for Express Entry - Canada.ca (https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents.html)

[Caymus]

Anyone that is honest with themselves, knows how very blessed they were to be born on this side of a man made line called a border. Groups of political leaders decided where these country borders should be and they can change at any given time. People born on the other side of the line are equal in humanity in every way shape and form. They cross the “government” line and all of a sudden some think they are some kind of subhuman species.

At times I’m torn by the fact that I want to enjoy what I think I have built up for myself and the very fact that we are all human with the distinction of having made up borders. What gives me the right to say me first?

The law enacted on July 1 is a good one, because it establishes order. The more people we have, the more order we need. I also feel like I have no right to kick others out just because I was blessed enough to be born here and they got the short end of the proverbial stick.

Which border? US and Canada?

[ithos]

Anyone that is honest with themselves, knows how very blessed they were to be born on this side of a man made line called a border. Groups of political leaders decided where these country borders should be and they can change at any given time. People born on the other side of the line are equal in humanity in every way shape and form. They cross the “government” line and all of a sudden some think they are some kind of subhuman species.

At times I’m torn by the fact that I want to enjoy what I think I have built up for myself and the very fact that we are all human with the distinction of having made up borders. What gives me the right to say me first?

The law enacted on July 1 is a good one, because it establishes order. The more people we have, the more order we need. I also feel like I have no right to kick others out just because I was blessed enough to be born here and they got the short end of the proverbial stick.

Your arguments are based on emotion and not logic and reason. If you want to do the most good for the most people then your idea of just letting the rest of the world just relocate to first world countries will only affect a tiny percentage of the worlds population. And it is obvious that when countries are depleted of their younger and more ambitious citizens, then the ones left behind will be worse off. In some countries entire villages are left uninhabited.

It is a noble cause to make attempts to raise the standard of living of third world countries and I believe relatively prosperous countries like ours should take measures to achieve that. First we should try and bring peace to as many countries as possible instead of instigating armed conflict. Secondly, we should promote education, free market and republican principles. Many countries in Asia have succeeded this way so why not others?

And may I add, stop shoving expensive and unreliable "renewable" power generation down their throat.

[jebartle]

It’s already easy for these people to come into our country. Not all are willing to work because they are bring illegal and deadly drugs into our country and are human traffickers. 60 billion a year untaxed dollars are going back to Mexico . They use our services and don’t pay income taxes . Hope that helps you choose correctly.

Too broad a brush, and who is this guy "they" (he sure gets around)!!! Many many, many administrations have tried to "FIX" immigration laws, hmmmm!, how is that working so far, it's beyond blaming "d's and r's", obviously our employers are screaming for help, the pandemic didn't help, so where do we go from here I'm curious REALLY how many American employees lost their job to immigrants or do they "Move on Up" to a better paying job, hmmm! If we could just keep our posts to facts and not fiction, maybe then, the truth will be the answer.

[Normal]

Which border? US and Canada?

What is a border? Did you get to choose the side you would be born on? What effort did you place into becoming an American? Myself, none, although I did honorably serve in the armed forces. I’m not for open immigration, I’m also not close minded. The government needs to get on the stick and pass some laws. We don’t even have enough workers to open a 7/11 in Magnolia plaza.

[Bill14564]

What is a border? Did you get to choose the side you would be born on? What effort did you place into becoming an American? Myself, none, although I did honorably serve in the armed forces. I’m not for open immigration, I’m also not close minded. The government needs to get on the stick and pass some laws. We don’t even have enough workers to open a 7/11 in Magnolia plaza.

That may be a different problem. When you take an area larger than Manhatten and make it unavailable to working-age people it should be no surprise that there are a shortage of workers.

[Carlsondm]

Interesting to check your personal response:

A) Get the job finished before the labor pool shrinks and costs more
B) follow the rules first, and the system will work for everybody equally . .

Now if your response is an A response, think about why:
most likely its low cost and an acceptable small wait period due to abundant cheap labor
you personally feel good about getting good value for your dollar and in a reasonable time

Now if your response is a B response, think about why:
most likely its about the fairness, equality, country, control

Now thinks about why the two are in conflict in your mind:
When I apply for a management job, I have to provide legal identification and proof of eligibility to work
After I fill out the form, I feel its a pain in the ass, but some comfort that there are eligibility gates for people coming for your income.

But when I am paying out for the job, I prefer good value, cheap labor who performs well.
I don't care about the labor details of the people, as long as its cheap and well done.

Your typical human response is B is good for the country and the citizens, but A is good for me. .
The national economic strategy is best value for your hard earned money. . but does how enter your decision?


This is how most people think/feel. . but if you have to pick one, which do you pick?
everyone follows the rules, no special treatment or loopholes, or good value for your hard earned money, the cheaper the better no matter how its achieved?

if you take the time to really analyze the source of your thoughts and feelings,
they might well be in conflict as described above. . . which should make BOTH sides of your brain hurt

just food for thought about your social contract when buying services.
It's a stupid rule, considering how difficult staffing for labor jobs has been. Look at who is competing for the jobs. Not many out-of-work Floridians (that the Gov states he is protecting). Some of the contractors in our village have been waiting for workers so they can finish 2 year old projects. I'd like to see the analysis and discussion of that legislation. Doesn't seem well thought out.
Surely there is a better way to get people back to work. Also, how will the newly unemployed workers affected by this law pay their bills? Chew on that a bit.

[I'm Popeye!]

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.
Sure, they are ready now to do the job.
But don't be fooled!
Once they are in and have SS cards, driver's licenses, and married our daughters, they will be like the rest of our Lazy (I want it for free) Americans...

[Pugchief]

Not sure what the argument is here.

Everyone should be in FAVOR of legal immigration for people who will WORK and contribute productively to US society

and AGAINST illegal immigration of people who will become WELFARE recipients in any form and be unproductive drain on the economy.

It's really pretty simple.

[Normal]

That may be a different problem. When you take an area larger than Manhatten and make it unavailable to working-age people it should be no surprise that there are a shortage of workers.

Or, if the past generation decided having kids was uncool and now the largest “Boomer” generation is mostly retired, where will the workers come from?

[Byte1]

Immigration laws do not matter if they are not enforced. When the powers that be order that those that break the laws of the land get a free pass, then having laws is all just a fancy facade. American citizen want Illegal Aliens in our country for one reason only. They want cheap labor and do not care how they get it. Even if it means by illegal means. "Everyone else is doing it." We have a work permit program and we have a visa program and green card program for those that wish to legally enter our country. What would your rather have in your country, those that support our laws or those that break our laws to begin their residency?
For some reason, we get new laws like the old laws but no one ever enforces them. It's much easier to enforce laws on decent folks that might exceed the speed limit once in a while or park illegally.

[Bill14564]

Immigration laws do not matter if they are not enforced. When the powers that be order that those that break the laws of the land get a free pass, then having laws is all just a fancy facade. American citizen want Illegal Aliens in our country for one reason only. They want cheap labor and do not care how they get it. Even if it means by illegal means. "Everyone else is doing it." We have a work permit program and we have a visa program and green card program for those that wish to legally enter our country. What would your rather have in your country, those that support our laws or those that break our laws to begin their residency?
For some reason, we get new laws like the old laws but no one ever enforces them. It's much easier to enforce laws on decent folks that might exceed the speed limit once in a while or park illegally.

So those that violate the driving laws are decent folk but those that break the immigration laws are not? Is there a list somewhere of which laws are okay for decent folk to violate? I suspect that more harm is caused by those that exceed the speed limit than by those who come looking for work.

[RCMill531@comcast.net]

Exactly! It’s ruining our country.

[Vermilion Villager]

Now congress is thinking about giving illegals social security when social security is going to run into financial issues in 2034.
Anybody living here, needs to work, pay taxes and pay into social security and before anybody gets a dime off the tax payers that work
WOW..... So let me get this straight… You are saying that speaker Kevin McCarthy who is the speaker of the house of representatives and is the leader of the political party that controls the house of representatives is thinking about giving illegals Social Security!?!?!?!? Because you do know that anything that has to do with monetary appropriations originates in the house of representatives. Can you give us one shred of evidence to back up your statement, or does this fall in to the "many people are saying" category?:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::
We'll wait.......

[retiredguy123]

Most of the illegals live off of our taxes for quite some time after they come into our country. Right now, NYC is putting the illegals up in expensive hotels, they are given money, phone, free health care, free school, etc.. all on our dime. Then some people want to hire illegals under the table so they don’t pay taxes. I think a lot of illegals don’t pay taxes mainly because if they don’t have a social security #, then they don’t pay taxes. Now congress is thinking about giving illegals social security when social security is going to run into financial issues in 2034.
Anybody living here, needs to work, pay taxes and pay into social security and before anybody gets a dime off the tax payers that work
Per your last sentence, are you proposing to eliminate the spouse SS benefit? No work required to receive it.

[JMintzer]

Canada must be an evil country (NOT) with these immigration requirements:
Documents for Express Entry - Canada.ca (https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents.html)

Mexico, as well...

"What are the Requirements for a Mexico Temporary Resident Visa?

Proof of family relationship, for Mexico Family Visas.
Proof of enrollment in a Mexico educational institution, for Mexico Student Visa.
Proof you have obtained a Mexico Work Permit and a copy of your work contract if applying for a Mexico Work Visa."

How dare they!!!

[JMintzer]

WE DO NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. Those of us who don't have a problem with immigrants don’t want open borders, we just want immigration policies that make sense. A good place to start is admitting that we need immigrant labor. If you don’t think so talk to a farmer. In order for immigrants to stop acting as a wage suppressant, we might try treating them like human beings rather than things that exist purely for the purpose of exploitation.

Another part of the equation would be foreign policy objectives that seek to help stabilize the economies of countries where asylum-seekers are coming from. The current crisis on our southern border is due to intolerable living conditions in failing states in Central America. If we don’t deal with these tottering states the crisis will never end. Sometimes anyplace-else is better than where you are.

My friends want common sense immigration policies that treat immigrant labor with simple humanity rather than crass exploitation. This is a country built by immigrants. It seems to me that an immovable anti-immigrant position is just a denial of our historical legacy.

Sure... 2.76 MILLION illegal crossings in 2022 show the border is tighter than a duck's @ss...

1.66 Million in 2021...

400K in 2020...

I'm sensing a trend...

[waterflower]

We have a major inequality of wages in this country. Slave wages prevent most Americans from working for the slave employers. Illegal immigration fuels this issue. United we stand/ Divided we fall. We need to raise the wages to a human standard. No one should work and continue to be in debt. The currency printing machine is off limits.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Too broad a brush, and who is this guy "they" (he sure gets around)!!! Many many, many administrations have tried to "FIX" immigration laws, hmmmm!, how is that working so far, it's beyond blaming "d's and r's", obviously our employers are screaming for help, the pandemic didn't help, so where do we go from here I'm curious REALLY how many American employees lost their job to immigrants or do they "Move on Up" to a better paying job, hmmm! If we could just keep our posts to facts and not fiction, maybe then, the truth will be the answer.

Pretty sure the primary landscaper of The Villages hires only documented workers. Most of them are NOT Americans, they're people here on work visas. If you have a problem with them not being Americans, then apply for a job to replace them. If they think you'll do as good a job as they do, as efficiently as they do, for the same number of hours under the same working conditions as they work, for the same pay the employer is willing to pay them, they'll probably hire you too.

Let us know when you get your first paycheck and we'll all celebrate your good fortune.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

We have a major inequality of wages in this country. Slave wages prevent most Americans from working for the slave employers. Illegal immigration fuels this issue. United we stand/ Divided we fall. We need to raise the wages to a human standard. No one should work and continue to be in debt. The currency printing machine is off limits.

The Fed has just passed the debt ceiling bill, that includes work requirements for SNAP/Medicaid recipients under 55. As long as there are checks and balances (people who are disabled being exempt, adding child care credit for single mothers, etc) then I think it's a great idea.

I'm 100% in favor of something akin to "workfare."

[JMintzer]

We have a major inequality of wages in this country. Slave wages prevent most Americans from working for the slave employers. Illegal immigration fuels this issue. United we stand/ Divided we fall. We need to raise the wages to a human standard. No one should work and continue to be in debt. The currency printing machine is off limits.

Wait... I thought that $15/hr was what was needed... Now that's not enough?

[Aces4]

I completely agree and I'm happy to see this post. The problem is a large part of the population has been trained to be frightened of people who are not white and shiny because they are "rapists and murderers."

That is RIDICULOUS. So political, dragging race into every conversation. Did it ever occur to narrow minded people that most of us stopped seeing different ethnic groups ages ago. But we didn’t stop seeing the problems and vulnerabilities with open borders.

Immigration is not the problem at all, illegals are. They don’t work for less, they cost far more with all the subsidies provided by American citizens. What most of us want are law abiding citizenry and who gives a squat about skin color. Get over those narrow minded talking points.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

That is RIDICULOUS. So political, dragging race into every conversation. Did it ever occur to narrow minded people that most of us stopped seeing different ethnic groups ages ago. But we didn’t stop seeing the problems and vulnerabilities with open borders.

Immigration is not the problem at all, illegals are. They don’t work for less, they cost far more with all the subsidies provided by American citizens. What most of us want are law abiding citizenry and who gives a squat about skin color. Get over those narrow minded talking points.

1. Undocumented immigrants who aren't granted refugee status - don't get subsidies from the Federal government. They can't get medicaid. They can't get social security checks. They can't get disability, or section 8 housing, or SNAP benefits. However, the ones who are in on work visas have to pay social security payroll tax - which they will NEVER benefit from. That money goes to you, and me, and whoever else qualifies for Social Security. Immigrants who are not made citizens pay, but don't receive. That's how it works. Now, some STATES will provide some assistance to undocumented immigrants, but Florida is not one of them. So the concern doesn't even apply here.

2. Refugees must cross into this country illegally, in order to even apply for refugee status.

I mean - all of this stuff is easily found on the federal government website, in plain English. You don't need to read anything on any fake news, or alt-media, or MSM or Newsmax or Fox or Breitbart or MSNBC or CNN or even C-Span. Just go to the government website, and read the details of the actual laws themselves, in simple PDF format.

[Aces4]

1. Undocumented immigrants who aren't granted refugee status - don't get subsidies from the Federal government. They can't get medicaid. They can't get social security checks. They can't get disability, or section 8 housing, or SNAP benefits. However, the ones who are in on work visas have to pay social security payroll tax - which they will NEVER benefit from. That money goes to you, and me, and whoever else qualifies for Social Security. Immigrants who are not made citizens pay, but don't receive. That's how it works. Now, some STATES will provide some assistance to undocumented immigrants, but Florida is not one of them. So the concern doesn't even apply here.

2. Refugees must cross into this country illegally, in order to even apply for refugee status.

I mean - all of this stuff is easily found on the federal government website, in plain English. You don't need to read anything on any fake news, or alt-media, or MSM or Newsmax or Fox or Breitbart or MSNBC or CNN or even C-Span. Just go to the government website, and read the details of the actual laws themselves, in simple PDF format.

Cross into this country to apply for refugee status…. I’m well aware of this joke. Re-establish the original immigration rules and regulations.

The ones who are here without refugee status don’t want it, they’re making their living in illegal activities.

I don’t think any of us here are so stupid as to believe that the illegals are paying for our social security and receive no benefits from US citizens. Do a little research and find out how much this fiasco is costing the USA. It’s a real eye opener when you get out of the bubble and live in the real world.

[Bill14564]

Cross into this country to apply for refugee status…. I’m well aware of this joke. Re-establish the original immigration rules and regulations.

The ones who are here without refugee status don’t want it, their making their living in illegal activities.

I don’t think any of us here are so stupid as to believe that the illegals are paying for our social security and receive no benefits from US citizens. Do a little research and find out how much this fiasco is costing the USA. It’s a real eye opener when you get out of the bubble and live in the real world.

Some of us are thoughtful enough to know that this is common. A SSN is required for a job and taxes will be paid against it. Illegal status means they may not take advantage of any/many services for fear of being identified. Money in but no benefits out. Do a little research away from the Fox News feeds, it may be enlightening.

[Aces4]

Some of us are thoughtful enough to know that this is common. A SSN is required for a job and taxes will be paid against it. Illegal status means they may not take advantage of any/many services for fear of being identified. Money in but no benefits out. Do a little research off the Fox News feeds, it may be enlightening.

Funny. You have read, I would assume, the continuing attempts to allow SS benefits for the illegals.

The illegals, if working the low paying level jobs at which Americans can not survive financially because they are not subsidized and must subsidize illegals, pay into SS at such low levels. Americans pay far more in taxes for the subsidies for those living in this country illegally than they gain in SS funding.

American businesses figured out how to get low pay employees and let Americans subsidize the difference. How do people not see what happened in this country?

[justjim]

Or Option C

C) fix the legal immigration system so this class of workers can come into the country legally, based on the need in the country.

Spot on. Workers are needed.

[waterflower]

We should just stop hiring illegal workers. Research Mexico's law for hiring foreigners. Serious jail time.

[Normal]

Inflation pressure will continue to rise with the lack of workers. Workers can more or less demand higher wages or work somewhere else. More cash means higher prices for us all. I wonder what a new roof will cost next year, or the year after that, if only American citizens are permitted to do the tedious work?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Funny. You have read, I would assume, the continuing attempts to allow SS benefits for the illegals.

Why do you think there are attempts to allow this?

I'll answer it for you: because - it's not allowed, presently. There would be no need to "attempt to allow" something that's already allowed.

#themoreyouknow

[Arctic Fox]

Everyone should be in FAVOR of legal immigration for people who will WORK and contribute productively to US society

and AGAINST illegal immigration of people who will become WELFARE recipients in any form and be unproductive drain on the economy.

But how do we know who is going to be in those two groups? They could be in one of these groups instead:

legal immigrants who will become welfare recipients in any form and be unproductive and a drain on the economy

illegal immigrants who will work and contribute productively to US society

[retiredguy123]

1. Undocumented immigrants who aren't granted refugee status - don't get subsidies from the Federal government. They can't get medicaid. They can't get social security checks. They can't get disability, or section 8 housing, or SNAP benefits. However, the ones who are in on work visas have to pay social security payroll tax - which they will NEVER benefit from. That money goes to you, and me, and whoever else qualifies for Social Security. Immigrants who are not made citizens pay, but don't receive. That's how it works. Now, some STATES will provide some assistance to undocumented immigrants, but Florida is not one of them. So the concern doesn't even apply here.

2. Refugees must cross into this country illegally, in order to even apply for refugee status.

I mean - all of this stuff is easily found on the federal government website, in plain English. You don't need to read anything on any fake news, or alt-media, or MSM or Newsmax or Fox or Breitbart or MSNBC or CNN or even C-Span. Just go to the government website, and read the details of the actual laws themselves, in simple PDF format.
Medicaid is managed by the states and they use the money for many different things, like free medical clinics, and RVs that provide free treatments and screenings. If people show up without identification and do not speak English, their motto is "when in doubt, shell it out". These mobile clinics target areas where a lot of illegals live. So, they are definitely getting Medicaid benefits. They also show up at hospitals and get free treatment. And, how do illegals pay into the SS system if they don't have a Social Security number?

[Bill14564]

Medicaid is managed by the states and they use the money for many different things, like free medical clinics, and RVs that provide free treatments and screenings. If people show up without identification and do not speak English, their motto is "when in doubt, shell it out". These mobile clinics target areas where a lot of illegals live. So, they are definitely getting Medicaid benefits. They also show up at hospitals and get free treatment. And, how do illegals pay into the SS system if they don't have a Social Security number?

By providing a fake SSN number. Employers withhold taxes and send them in using the number provided. The IRS doesn't care (or even know?) that it is phony. SS taxes are collected with no possibility that they will ever be paid out to those individuals.

[retiredguy123]

By providing a fake SSN number. Employers withhold taxes and send them in using the number provided. The IRS doesn't care (or even know?) that it is phony. SS taxes are collected with no possibility that they will ever be paid out to those individuals.
Are you saying that the Social Security administration sets up an account for fake SS numbers? Who do they mail the annual statement to that shows how much you contributed into the system?

[Bill14564]

Are you saying that the Social Security administration sets up an account for fake SS numbers? Who do they mail the annual statement to that shows how much you contributed into the system?

I'm saying they do not set up an account for fake numbers.

I assume the IRS reports the contributions to the SS Administration who has no idea what to do with the fake number. No statement can be sent out because there is no account. No benefits can be paid because there is no account. The money is collected by the IRS but will never be paid to those who contributes it.

[Battlebasset]

Are you saying that the Social Security administration sets up an account for fake SS numbers? Who do they mail the annual statement to that shows how much you contributed into the system?

Google "how many fake or stolen ss numbers are there". One source says as high as 2.9 million.

[JMintzer]

1. Undocumented immigrants who aren't granted refugee status - don't get subsidies from the Federal government. They can't get medicaid. They can't get social security checks. They can't get disability, or section 8 housing, or SNAP benefits. However, the ones who are in on work visas have to pay social security payroll tax - which they will NEVER benefit from. That money goes to you, and me, and whoever else qualifies for Social Security. Immigrants who are not made citizens pay, but don't receive. That's how it works. Now, some STATES will provide some assistance to undocumented immigrants, but Florida is not one of them. So the concern doesn't even apply here.

2. Refugees must cross into this country illegally, in order to even apply for refugee status.

I mean - all of this stuff is easily found on the federal government website, in plain English. You don't need to read anything on any fake news, or alt-media, or MSM or Newsmax or Fox or Breitbart or MSNBC or CNN or even C-Span. Just go to the government website, and read the details of the actual laws themselves, in simple PDF format.

Absolutely incorrect...

You can LEGALLY apply for refugee status at any port of entry or at a US Embassy...

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is giving ILLEGAL Immigrants FREE health care, FREE cellphones...

And yes, STATES (most currently, Minnesota) that receive FEDERAL monies are now giving ILLEGAL immigrants FREE college tuition...

Add to that, the cost of "free" public education for the children of illegal immigrants... More FEDERAL monies spent...

"The law includes important exceptions for certain types of services. Regardless of their immigration status, not-qualified immigrants are eligible for emergency Medicaid if they are otherwise eligible for their state’s Medicaid program."

"Twenty-one states use federal funds to provide prenatal care regardless of immigration status, under the CHIP program’s option enabling states to provide prenatal services through CHIP."

Overview of Immigrant Eligibility for Federal Programs '-' National Immigration Law Center (https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-support/overview-immeligfedprograms/)

[JMintzer]

Some of us are thoughtful enough to know that this is common. A SSN is required for a job and taxes will be paid against it. Illegal status means they may not take advantage of any/many services for fear of being identified. Money in but no benefits out. Do a little research off the Fox News feeds, it may be enlightening.

FOX News! Everybody drink!

[JMintzer]

Spot on. Workers are needed.

We already have a worker visa program...

[retiredguy123]

I'm saying they do not set up an account for fake numbers.

I assume the IRS reports the contributions to the SS Administration who has no idea what to do with the fake number. No statement can be sent out because there is no account. No benefits can be paid because there is no account. The money is collected by the IRS but will never be paid to those who contributes it.
I don't doubt it, but my experience with the IRS is that, when they find an error in their favor, they will notify you and send you a refund. In this case, the employer is required to contribute about half of the Social Security tax on behalf of each employee. It sounds like the IRS is basically stealing that money from the employer.

[JMintzer]

By providing a fake SSN number. Employers withhold taxes and send them in using the number provided. The IRS doesn't care (or even know?) that it is phony. SS taxes are collected with no possibility that they will ever be paid out to those individuals.

Really?

Could you please explain this?

Did the IRS Send Thousands of Tax Refunds to the Same Addresses? | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/irs-sent-thousands-of-tax-refunds-same-addresses/)

[Bill14564]

Really?

Could you please explain this?

Did the IRS Send Thousands of Tax Refunds to the Same Addresses? | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/irs-sent-thousands-of-tax-refunds-same-addresses/)

What is there to explain? If anything the article supports what I wrote.

Note that the 24,000 refunds were for payroll taxes and not SS taxes. There is no allegation that the filings were filled out incorrectly and the refunds were not deserved, only a question of whether the individuals should have been working in the first place.

This shows payroll deductions, likely including SS taxes, were made by/for these workers. If these were ineligible workers then the SSNs were fake and will never be collected against. Money into the system with no possibility of benefits being paid.

[JMintzer]

What is there to explain? If anything the article supports what I wrote.

Note that the 24,000 refunds were for payroll taxes and not SS taxes. There is no allegation that the filings were filled out incorrectly and the refunds were not deserved, only a question of whether the individuals should have been working in the first place.

This shows payroll deductions, likely including SS taxes, were made by/for these workers. If these were ineligible workers then the SSNs were fake and will never be collected against. Money into the system with no possibility of benefits being paid.

A local news station did a piece on this. There is plenty of evidence that it's fraudulent... The IRS never replied to inquiries form the accountants or the reporter...

ITINs, not SSNs...

Over $4 BILLION in fraudulent claims...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gwWaKkV6RM&t=154s

[Bill14564]

A local news station did a piece on this. There is plenty of evidence that it's fraudulent... The IRS never replied to inquiries form the accountants or the reporter...

ITINs, not SSNs...

Over $4 BILLION in fraudulent claims...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gwWaKkV6RM&t=154s

Oh! Income tax return fraud. Yep, could very well be a problem though this report is 12 years old. Illegals aren't the only ones who cheat on their taxes but stopping any cheaters would help.

I was commenting on SS taxes which are separate from what this report is covering.

[JMintzer]

Oh! Income tax return fraud. Yep, could very well be a problem though this report is 12 years old. Illegals aren't the only ones who cheat on their taxes but stopping any cheaters would help.

I was commenting on SS taxes which are separate from what this report is covering.

You stated "There is no allegation that the filings were filled out incorrectly and the refunds were not deserved..."

Well, I gave you the proof...

And all you can come up with is "everybody does it"? That's your defense?

[Aces4]

Why do you think there are attempts to allow this?

I'll answer it for you: because - it's not allowed, presently. There would be no need to "attempt to allow" something that's already allowed.

#themoreyouknow

And we pay far more into the subsidies for these illegal workers than the sniveling amount they pay into the SS program. It’s all a shell game, far above the heads of many.

[Aces4]

Some of us are thoughtful enough to know that this is common. A SSN is required for a job and taxes will be paid against it. Illegal status means they may not take advantage of any/many services for fear of being identified. Money in but no benefits out. Do a little research away from the Fox News feeds, it may be enlightening.

I live in the real world not on Fox TV. But I can see you want to make this political. You haven’t a clue how much is being drained out of Americans pockets for this illegal setup.

I suggest you move away from those TV channels that offer little substance. Try thinking Independent, it’s a real mess out there. No wonder SS is going broke, money which should be focused on Seniors is being siphoned away to everyone but.

[Bill14564]

You stated "There is no allegation that the filings were filled out incorrectly and the refunds were not deserved..."

Well, I gave you the proof...

And all you can come up with is "everybody does it"? That's your defense?

I’m pretty sure those were different filings.

In any case, it feels like you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. No thanks, not interested.

[Number 10 GI]

It's not just here in the U.S. where there aren't enough people willing to work. A friend of ours in Germany owns a company that cleans passenger airplanes at the Frankfurt airport. He struggles to get employees willing to work. He can't even get the recent immigrants to hire on. The young people there don't want to work just like here. Also, Germany has social programs that pay people who don't want a job. It isn't a huge amount but it's enough to live with mommy and daddy and provide them with enough money to party.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Medicaid is managed by the states and they use the money for many different things, like free medical clinics, and RVs that provide free treatments and screenings. If people show up without identification and do not speak English, their motto is "when in doubt, shell it out". These mobile clinics target areas where a lot of illegals live. So, they are definitely getting Medicaid benefits. They also show up at hospitals and get free treatment. And, how do illegals pay into the SS system if they don't have a Social Security number?

Once again, more stuff you can easily find out by going to the actual government website.

It's called an ITIN: an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, given to
– Unauthorized immigrants,
– Lawfully present individuals, and
– U.S. resident aliens/nonresident aliens

Anyone who is here pending refugee status is an "unauthorized immigrant" by definition. They can work, and they are obligated to pay taxes, but they are not entitled to receive social security checks upon retirement. They can get child tax credits if they qualify just like any other taxpayer, though.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/20-Immigration%20and%20Taxation.pdf

Seriously - y'all need to stop listening to alt-facts and read actual official documentation once in awhile. It's healthy.

[Vermilion Villager]

Medicaid is managed by the states and they use the money for many different things, like free medical clinics, and RVs that provide free treatments and screenings. If people show up without identification and do not speak English, their motto is "when in doubt, shell it out". These mobile clinics target areas where a lot of illegals live. So, they are definitely getting Medicaid benefits. They also show up at hospitals and get free treatment. And, how do illegals pay into the SS system if they don't have a Social Security number?
Can you please name one state that does this and then show me some proof of what you are saying is true by including a link to that state.....I'll wait

[JMintzer]

I’m pretty sure those were different filings.

In any case, it feels like you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. No thanks, not interested.

Pretty sure they're not different at all...

And yes, you are arguing just for the sake of arguing...

But I'll keep pointing out your mistakes...

[JMintzer]

Once again, more stuff you can easily find out by going to the actual government website.

It's called an ITIN: an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, given to
– Unauthorized immigrants,
– Lawfully present individuals, and
– U.S. resident aliens/nonresident aliens

Anyone who is here pending refugee status is an "unauthorized immigrant" by definition. They can work, and they are obligated to pay taxes, but they are not entitled to receive social security checks upon retirement. They can get child tax credits if they qualify just like any other taxpayer, though.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/20-Immigration%20and%20Taxation.pdf

Seriously - y'all need to stop listening to alt-facts and read actual official documentation once in awhile. It's healthy.

And they scam the tax system at unprecedented rates...

Y'all need to pull your head out if the sand and see what's actually going on...

[JMintzer]

Can you please name one state that does this and then show me some proof of what you are saying is true by including a link to that state.....I'll wait

Read this:

Health Coverage and Care of Undocumented Immigrants | KFF (https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/health-coverage-and-care-of-undocumented-immigrants/)

And expanding Medicaid is surely on the table...

Blue states put the brakes on health care for undocumented immigrants - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/09/medicaid-for-undocumented-immigrants-democrats-00095949)

But wait... There's more!

"The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) ensures that all patients regardless of citizenship or immigration status have access to emergency medical treatment. The purpose of EMTALA is to ensure all Medicare-participating hospitals do not to turn away individuals who need lifesaving care. Undocumented immigrants use of EMTALA-related services is often covered via emergency Medicaid."

Fact Sheet: Undocumented Immigrants and Federal Health Care Benefits - National Immigration Forum (https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-undocumented-immigrants-and-federal-health-care-benefits/)

"Emergency Medicaid provides medical coverage to uninsured individuals who do not qualify for Medicaid due to citizenship/immigration status. This program pays the health care costs for individuals who have experienced a medical emergency. "

Emergency Medicaid | dhcf (https://dhcf.dc.gov/service/emergency-medicaid#:~:text=Emergency%20Medicaid%20provides%2 0medical%20coverage,have%20experienced%20a%20medic al%20emergency).

It was a pretty short wait...

[Bill14564]

I’m pretty sure those were different filings.

In any case, it feels like you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. No thanks, not interested.

Pretty sure they're not different at all...

And yes, you are arguing just for the sake of arguing...

But I'll keep pointing out your mistakes...

Well, the Snopes article you posted concerned 23,994 returns and 11,294 returns going to two addresses in Atlanta. The video you linked to discussed issues in Indiana including one home where five returns were filed. Seems different to me.

Yes, please keep pointing out my mistakes.

[retiredguy123]

Can you please name one state that does this and then show me some proof of what you are saying is true by including a link to that state.....I'll wait
Are you kidding? Virginia for one. But almost every state uses Medicaid money to provide medical care to illegals. Any illegal can just show up at any hospital emergency room and get free medical care. The hospitals get Medicaid money. Here is just one website that claims that Medicaid spends about $18.5 billion on illegals.

Reports: Illegal immigrants receiving Medicaid costs taxpayers $18.5 billion annually | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/854de0bdd8ef4fb69123e0fd51ec5389)

Do you really think that Medicaid funded clinics screen for illegals and turn them away?

[dhdallas]

Bill 1718 comes into effect soon. Pool companies, landscaping companies, driveway pavers and even Villages Construction groups will have to use E-Verify or face stiff financial penalties and further prosecution. If you are thinking of one of these projects…get er done! Employers can be fined 1,000 dollars per worker, per day if they violate the new immigration law.

Yes, please hurry so we can exploit these illegal immigrants before companies are forced to hire American workers!

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Instead of hiring 87,000 IRS workers they should hire that many in the Immigration Service, and then we wouldn’t have to worry about it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Are you kidding? Virginia for one. But almost every state uses Medicaid money to provide medical care to illegals. Any illegal can just show up at any hospital emergency room and get free medical care. The hospitals get Medicaid money. Here is just one website that claims that Medicaid spends about $18.5 billion on illegals.

Reports: Illegal immigrants receiving Medicaid costs taxpayers $18.5 billion annually | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/854de0bdd8ef4fb69123e0fd51ec5389)

Do you really think that Medicaid funded clinics screen for illegals and turn them away?

Any American citizen who doesn't want to pay a bill can walk into any public hospital and get care too. All the criminals who got hurt in the process of robbing a store, carjacking a car, kidnapping a child, torturing a dog, raping their daughter, beating up an old lady - if the criminal got hurt - they will get free medical care courtesy of the taxpayer. Whether they walk into the ER on their own steam, or the police send them to ER after they're caught, they won't have to pay the bill.

And that's just the American citizens I'm talking about. I don't see anyone whining about Americans who commit violent crimes and get hurt in the process getting free medical care in the ER courtesy of the taxpayer. Well actually I do. When the criminal is brown or black, they are criticized. When the criminal is white "boys will be boys" or some such, most of the time.

Funny how prejudice works. Everything is working as intended, until "other" does it. Then the system is bad.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Instead of hiring 87,000 IRS workers they should hire that many in the Immigration Service, and then we wouldn’t have to worry about it.

The plan was to hire a total of 87,000 employees over the course of a 10-year period. That number would include all the tens of thousands of employees who are replacing those who retire, quit, are fired, or die while employed during that 10-year period. It also includes couriers, secretaries, office associates, building maintenance employees (janitors) to fill out existing vacancies and make the entire system work more efficiently.

Right now there are millions of dollars not collected, that should be collected, but there just aren't enough people working in the system to get the job done efficiently. That's OUR money - the money our government uses to run the country - that isn't getting collected.

You want to talk about waste - there's a big chunk of it. We have an inefficient IRS system because everyone wants to "save money" and refuses to fund the organization responsible for collecting all the money you're saving.

[JMintzer]

Well, the Snopes article you posted concerned 23,994 returns and 11,294 returns going to two addresses in Atlanta. The video you linked to discussed issues in Indiana including one home where five returns were filed. Seems different to me.

Yes, please keep pointing out my mistakes.

That's because it's happening everywhere!

Do you really think it's only happening in one place?

[JMintzer]

Any American citizen who doesn't want to pay a bill can walk into any public hospital and get care too. All the criminals who got hurt in the process of robbing a store, carjacking a car, kidnapping a child, torturing a dog, raping their daughter, beating up an old lady - if the criminal got hurt - they will get free medical care courtesy of the taxpayer. Whether they walk into the ER on their own steam, or the police send them to ER after they're caught, they won't have to pay the bill.

And that's just the American citizens I'm talking about. I don't see anyone whining about Americans who commit violent crimes and get hurt in the process getting free medical care in the ER courtesy of the taxpayer. Well actually I do. When the criminal is brown or black, they are criticized. When the criminal is white "boys will be boys" or some such, most of the time.

Funny how prejudice works. Everything is working as intended, until "other" does it. Then the system is bad.

1. There is a difference between US Citizens and Illegal Aliens....

2. Go to any other country and try to get "free" health care. Let me know how that works out for you...

3. Playing the race card doesn't help your case...

[Caymus]

The plan was to hire a total of 87,000 employees over the course of a 10-year period. That number would include all the tens of thousands of employees who are replacing those who retire, quit, are fired, or die while employed during that 10-year period. It also includes couriers, secretaries, office associates, building maintenance employees (janitors) to fill out existing vacancies and make the entire system work more efficiently.

Right now there are millions of dollars not collected, that should be collected, but there just aren't enough people working in the system to get the job done efficiently. That's OUR money - the money our government uses to run the country - that isn't getting collected.



How many of them will be Lois Lerner Clones?

[ithos]

Any American citizen who doesn't want to pay a bill can walk into any public hospital and get care too. All the criminals who got hurt in the process of robbing a store, carjacking a car, kidnapping a child, torturing a dog, raping their daughter, beating up an old lady - if the criminal got hurt - they will get free medical care courtesy of the taxpayer. Whether they walk into the ER on their own steam, or the police send them to ER after they're caught, they won't have to pay the bill.

And that's just the American citizens I'm talking about. I don't see anyone whining about Americans who commit violent crimes and get hurt in the process getting free medical care in the ER courtesy of the taxpayer. Well actually I do. When the criminal is brown or black, they are criticized. When the criminal is white "boys will be boys" or some such, most of the time.

Funny how prejudice works. Everything is working as intended, until "other" does it. Then the system is bad.

THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM!
The most striking statistic is that only 6 percent of all Black test takers were rated ready for college-level courses in all four areas of English, mathematics, science, and reading. Whites were more than five times as likely as Blacks to be prepared for college-level work in all four areas.

Black Students’ Scores on the ACT Test Continue to Fall and the Racial Gap Widens : The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education (https://www.jbhe.com/2021/10/black-students-scores-on-the-act-test-continue-to-fall-and-the-racial-gap-widens/)

Why have we rolled out the welcome mat to every other poor person on the planet when we have such failures like this?

This should be the nations highest priority. Why isn't it. Well it is not because of lack of funding. Every student in a failing school should have school choice.

But that will never happen because it is much harder to play the race card for political purposes when the disparities of education and standard of living is eliminated between the races.

[retiredguy123]

Any American citizen who doesn't want to pay a bill can walk into any public hospital and get care too. All the criminals who got hurt in the process of robbing a store, carjacking a car, kidnapping a child, torturing a dog, raping their daughter, beating up an old lady - if the criminal got hurt - they will get free medical care courtesy of the taxpayer. Whether they walk into the ER on their own steam, or the police send them to ER after they're caught, they won't have to pay the bill.

And that's just the American citizens I'm talking about. I don't see anyone whining about Americans who commit violent crimes and get hurt in the process getting free medical care in the ER courtesy of the taxpayer. Well actually I do. When the criminal is brown or black, they are criticized. When the criminal is white "boys will be boys" or some such, most of the time.

Funny how prejudice works. Everything is working as intended, until "other" does it. Then the system is bad.
I was addressing your Post No. 66 that said about "undocumented immigrants", "They can't get Medicaid". That is totally false. They can and do get Medicaid.

[JMintzer]

I was addressing your Post No. 66 that said about "undocumented immigrants", "They can't get Medicaid". That is totally false. They can and do get Medicaid.

Just another case of "If you can't debate the topic, change the parameters..."

[Bill14564]

I was addressing your Post No. 66 that said about "undocumented immigrants", "They can't get Medicaid". That is totally false. They can and do get Medicaid.

I see a difference between being given a medicaid "card" to use for health insurance and medicaid funds being given to hospitals that provide emergency services to the uninsured. Still, there are some States that provide a limited amount of direct medicaid coverage to undocumented individuals.

In the case of treating the uninsured, what would you have the emergency rooms do? Should they leave someone untreated if they don't have insurance? Should they ascertain someone's citizenship or immigration status and only leave the undocumented untreated? I don't like the immigration situation any more than anyone else but I can't see leaving people to die in the waiting room or allowing hospitals to go broke and close because those they save cannot pay.

[retiredguy123]

I see a difference between being given a medicaid "card" to use for health insurance and medicaid funds being given to hospitals that provide emergency services to the uninsured. Still, there are some States that provide a limited amount of direct medicaid coverage to undocumented individuals.

In the case of treating the uninsured, what would you have the emergency rooms do? Should they leave someone untreated if they don't have insurance? Should they ascertain someone's citizenship or immigration status and only leave the undocumented untreated? I don't like the immigration situation any more than anyone else but I can't see leaving people to die in the waiting room or allowing hospitals to go broke and close because those they save cannot pay.
I agree that emergency treatment should be provided for "real" emergencies. But I don't think hospital emergency rooms should provide non-emergency care for anyone, insured or not, because it causes long wait times for people who really need the care. There is a common misconception about the Federal law regarding what emergency rooms are required to do. They only need to stabilize a patient so that he/she can be transferred somewhere else. Hospitals receive large amounts of money from local, state, and the Federal Government to treat indigent patients. Some uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary care facility, which hospitals should not allow.

[JMintzer]

I see a difference between being given a medicaid "card" to use for health insurance and medicaid funds being given to hospitals that provide emergency services to the uninsured. Still, there are some States that provide a limited amount of direct medicaid coverage to undocumented individuals.

Same pants, different pockets...

In the case of treating the uninsured, what would you have the emergency rooms do? Should they leave someone untreated if they don't have insurance? Should they ascertain someone's citizenship or immigration status and only leave the undocumented untreated? I don't like the immigration situation any more than anyone else but I can't see leaving people to die in the waiting room or allowing hospitals to go broke and close because those they save cannot pay.

Nice straw man...

But thanks for reinforcing the reason for controlling our borders...

Oh, and here's a pro tip: Many hospitals have already closed due to all of the "free" care given to illegal immigrants...

Texas Dr. Antonio Falcon: We’re Facing A Catastrophic Situation On The Border | KFF Health News (https://kffhealthnews.org/falcon-mexico-border-health/)

A Hospital on Border Going Over the Edge - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jun-20-na-hospital20-story.html)

At Yuma's hospital, migrants are taking beds from local residents - Washington Times (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/23/yumas-hospital-migrants-are-taking-beds-local-resi/)

Hospital Stuck With $20 Million Bill for Medical Care to Illegal Migrants (https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/12/21/federal-government-leaves-border-hospital-with-20-million-bill-for-free-health-care-to-illegal-aliens/)

And finally (Everybody drink!)

L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/story/l-a-emergency-rooms-full-of-illegal-immigrants)

[JMintzer]

I agree that emergency treatment should be provided for "real" emergencies. But I don't think hospital emergency rooms should provide non-emergency care for anyone, insured or not, because it causes long wait times for people who really need the care. There is a common misconception about the Federal law regarding what emergency rooms are required to do. They only need to stabilize a patient so that he/she can be transferred somewhere else. Hospitals receive large amounts of money from local, state, and the Federal Government to treat indigent patients. Some uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary care facility, which hospitals should not allow.

Good luck with that... It's not up to the hospital...

When they turn someone away and that person as a bad outcome, just start adding zeros to the settlement check...