Advice needed regarding resale home defect

[bopat]

Recently purchased a resale home here in The Villages.
With the recent rain storm, we noticed some water on the lanai floor.

The lanai is fully enclosed, with double pane windows and a door.

Seems this isn't something new, looking closer at the floor we see water stains on the tiles all around, we thought they were part of the pattern, but now it makes sense.

Also, looking at the windows, the big ones have a white haze on the bottom of them, which they've had for as long as we've known (was there when we purchased the home), we asked the real estate agent and she said it was from the hard water they used to water the shrubs.

Looking more closely, the big windows are installed backwards, the weatherproof seal is on the inside, and the foam insulation around the window frame is on the outside.

So my question is, what should I do?
Some thoughts:
- The agent should have disclosed the water problem (it's not new).
- The home inspector (we had the full home inspection done) should have surfaced this problem and noticed what I noticed. I'm not a home inspector and I figured it out.
- Not sure if the previous owners knew, but if it was a defect from when the house was built, it should have been dealt with back then. Not sure if the previous owners did the work on the lanai or it was part of the original build.

In any event, does anybody know anyone who can reverse big windows? These things are like 6' x 5'!

[retiredguy123]

Is the haze on the windows, between the panes of glass? If so, reversing the windows will not fix the problem. You need new window panes. If water is coming in under the window, it may be possible to apply some caulking on the outside. The home inspector is not liable for anything unless you purchased a separate liability policy from the inspector. Some inspectors offer this protection, but it usually doubles the cost for the inspection. In my opinion, your only option is to sue the broker and the seller for not disclosing known defects to you. You can file a complaint against the broker with the state license board, but that will not fix your problems.

[Boomer]

If I were you, I would just fix the problem and move on.

Mr. Boomer always accompanies the inspector when we buy a house, so he can ask questions along the way.

But we have owned 10 houses and Mr. Boomer is a handy guy with a lot of experience with houses and their varying issues, so he is inspecting along with the official inspector we hire.

We tend to take real estate deal inspections with a grain of salt. I have never known an inspector to skew a deal. Real estate agents keep them in business. Those inspection reports can be interesting, but they always have so many outs written in.

I would not go down the litigation road. As aggravating as this is, it sounds like it can be fixed and you can just go forward without bogging down in legal issues and more expense. (I would never recommend your inspector or agent to anybody else though. Sounds lax to me.)

I cannot tell you who can fix it, like you asked, but I hope somebody here can help you with that.

Boomer

[Kenswing]

If you can find out what company did the installation I would call them out and see if they’ll fix it under warranty or for a reasonable price. Once you have the problem fixed then you can maybe approach the seller/agent for reimbursement. I doubt taking them to court would be worth your time.

[Stu from NYC]

If you can find out what company did the installation I would call them out and see if they’ll fix it under warranty or for a reasonable price. Once you have the problem fixed then you can maybe approach the seller/agent for reimbursement. I doubt taking them to court would be worth your time.

I second this motion

[LuvNH]

Get a reputable builder, not a handyman .... it sounds as though a handyman did the original job incorrectly.

You could do a search on this site to see what builders are recommended. You could also call TV and ask if they have a list of recommended builders.

[Stu from NYC]

I second this motion

I would tell seller you want to make an upgrade to the panels and would like the name of company that supplied it

[Stu from NYC]

Upon further thought would call as many florida room providers as you can find and ask if they have a record of doing your house.

[Bill1701]

I doubt the sales agent knew anything about the water leak. They just ask the owner if there are any problems, but don't look for them themselves. If the owner didn't mention it, you could go after them, but that would be more work than it's worth.

[PJ_Smiley]

To enclose the lanai, the seller would have needed a county permit. Go online or in person to the county permit department and check the records for your property. There should be a permit with the installation company named.

[Stu from NYC]

To enclose the lanai, the seller would have needed a county permit. Go online or in person to the county permit department and check the records for your property. There should be a permit with the installation company named.

You nailed it.

[Worldseries27]

Aren't pre owned homes sold as is? The only recourse i see is going to the installer and demanding the error be corrected with no charge or take action vs his license. The original builder may be liable also if he subcontracted the job

[Sandy and Ed]

To enclose the lanai, the seller would have needed a county permit. Go online or in person to the county permit department and check the records for your property. There should be a permit with the installation company named.
BINGO!!! If a permit was needed was a final inspection done??

[NoMo50]

From the description given by the OP, it sounds like a problem the previous owner must have known about, yet failed to disclose at the time of sale. Proving that, however, will be very difficult. It's time to bring in a window professional, and heed his/her guidance. If the haze on the glass is on the outside, that should be removable. But, if the haze is between the panes of a double pane window, that means the seal between the panes has been compromised. The space between double pane glass is typically filled with an inert gas such as argon. If that gas has escaped, condensation and stains will form between the panes that will only get worse. In addition, the lack of gas will prevent the windows from performing the way they are supposed to perform.

Again, call in a professional for a thorough inspection and assessment. While your problem may be repairable, I suspect a window replacement may be in your future. Good luck.

[msilagy]

I bought a 2 bedroom CV in Rio Grande ( I have since moved but not for any reason, I bought a 3 bedroom). Any way I discovered water coming in after rain in the lanai on the tile floor near the windows. My inspector came back, cauked around the glass windows outside and could not figure out where it was coming from. This continued to happen after it rained and after having others inspect the windows - I decided to put ceramic tile in the lanai - problem solved as far as I was concerned.

[Juliebythesea]

Exactly. How could the agent know unless the seller informed the agent.

[Pamela1130]

Recently purchased a resale home here in The Villages.
With the recent rain storm, we noticed some water on the lanai floor.

The lanai is fully enclosed, with double pane windows and a door.

Seems this isn't something new, looking closer at the floor we see water stains on the tiles all around, we thought they were part of the pattern, but now it makes sense.

Also, looking at the windows, the big ones have a white haze on the bottom of them, which they've had for as long as we've known (was there when we purchased the home), we asked the real estate agent and she said it was from the hard water they used to water the shrubs.

Looking more closely, the big windows are installed backwards, the weatherproof seal is on the inside, and the foam insulation around the window frame is on the outside.

So my question is, what should I do?
Some thoughts:
- The agent should have disclosed the water problem (it's not new).
- The home inspector (we had the full home inspection done) should have surfaced this problem and noticed what I noticed. I'm not a home inspector and I figured it out.
- Not sure if the previous owners knew, but if it was a defect from when the house was built, it should have been dealt with back then. Not sure if the previous owners did the work on the lanai or it was part of the original build.

In any event, does anybody know anyone who can reverse big windows? These things are like 6' x 5'!


I have no idea who would be at fault, if anyone. The broker, the previous owners, the inspectors? I will try to make sure that we are covered for problems that might exist and weren't revealed. If that is even possible.

Please keep us informed on what happens. Thanks for posting this.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Recently purchased a resale home here in The Villages.
With the recent rain storm, we noticed some water on the lanai floor.
Also, looking at the windows, the big ones have a white haze on the bottom of them, which they've had for as long as we've known (was there when we purchased the home)

Looking more closely, the big windows are installed backwards, the weatherproof seal is on the inside, and the foam insulation around the window frame is on the outside.



Having lived in houses as the first/second owner, there are always builder short cuts found after purchase.
real life examples are:

unglued pvc waste pipes,
cut joists under bathroom floor,
improperly wired switches,
improperly installed roof vents,
finished floor installation issues,
improperly installed cabinets,
switched hot cold water pipes to showers


I just don't ask the real estate anything building related, its never their skill set, and its all the building inspector / home inspector's skill set.

Also, we always expect to fix / find issues on any house, even a brand new TV built house. . . even on our newly built TV house, there was a roof leak in one of the heaviest rain days in the first year, never since. . its also hard to find a roof leak unless you do it when its leaking and its not always an easy place to work in the summer time.

In our current NE home, there were huge shortcuts, as the agent/contractor was a POS. . and trying to make a huge profit by cutting corners. . as he sold the house unfinished, and the finishing was more costly than his estimates.. ..

Fixing to your standards is the best answer, and move on, its not worth the expense or hassle unless it renders the house unlivable or barely livable. .

[Vermilion Villager]

Recently purchased a resale home here in The Villages.
With the recent rain storm, we noticed some water on the lanai floor.

The lanai is fully enclosed, with double pane windows and a door.

Seems this isn't something new, looking closer at the floor we see water stains on the tiles all around, we thought they were part of the pattern, but now it makes sense.

Also, looking at the windows, the big ones have a white haze on the bottom of them, which they've had for as long as we've known (was there when we purchased the home), we asked the real estate agent and she said it was from the hard water they used to water the shrubs.

Looking more closely, the big windows are installed backwards, the weatherproof seal is on the inside, and the foam insulation around the window frame is on the outside.

So my question is, what should I do?
Some thoughts:
- The agent should have disclosed the water problem (it's not new).
- The home inspector (we had the full home inspection done) should have surfaced this problem and noticed what I noticed. I'm not a home inspector and I figured it out.
- Not sure if the previous owners knew, but if it was a defect from when the house was built, it should have been dealt with back then. Not sure if the previous owners did the work on the lanai or it was part of the original build.

In any event, does anybody know anyone who can reverse big windows? These things are like 6' x 5'!

It's kind of difficult to understand what you were really asking for here. As far as you purchasing a home that did not have a warranty Florida law is pretty clear. A purchase of a home is "as is". I'm not following what you're talking about reversing a big window. Are you talking about turning it inside out or upside down?

[ldj1938]

From the description given by the OP, it sounds like a problem the previous owner must have known about, yet failed to disclose at the time of sale. Proving that, however, will be very difficult. It's time to bring in a window professional, and heed his/her guidance. If the haze on the glass is on the outside, that should be removable. But, if the haze is between the panes of a double pane window, that means the seal between the panes has been compromised. The space between double pane glass is typically filled with an inert gas such as argon. If that gas has escaped, condensation and stains will form between the panes that will only get worse. In addition, the lack of gas will prevent the windows from performing the way they are supposed to perform.

Again, call in a professional for a thorough inspection and assessment. While your problem may be repairable, I suspect a window replacement may be in your future. Good luck.


It has been a really long time since we've had a really hard rain storm. Months! In my experience (Lived here 23 years) I would call Doc's and they have people qualified to do about anything you need. They all subcontract under Doc's supervision. When they finish the work Doc's send an inspector to make sure everything is done properly.
When we had one of the hurricanes we had a lot of water in our front bedroom. The insurance company sent people in to dry it out and clean it up. The agent came by, took one look and said, recaulk your windows. Problem solved. Our house is 25 years old. Get it done!:)

[retiredguy123]

Note that most pre-owned houses are not sold "as is". They have an implied warranty, which basically means that the seller warrants that everything in the house is in working order. So, for example, if the HVAC system doesn't function when the buyer takes possession, the seller is responsible to repair it. You can sell a house "as is" but that needs to be specifically stated in the listing. If you buy an "as is" listing, the seller doesn't warrant anything. But, in either case, "as is" or not, it is difficult to address these types of issues after the closing because the buyer has no leverage. As a buyer, if you want leverage, you would need to require a deposit to be held for a time period after the closing, but the seller may refuse to agree to it.

[jmaccallum]

In Florida, pretty much all Real Estate Agents are “Transaction Brokers.” They don’t represent you, the Buyer, nor the Seller. They have no fiduciary responsibility to anyone, they just put together the transaction. It doesn’t matter what they say or even what they put in writing to you. The Sales Contract that you signed to buy the house even spells that out in bold print, you indemnify and hold them harmless. In Florida it is “Caveat Emptor” or Buyer Beware on all properties sold. Find a good contractor to fix and good luck!

[retiredguy123]

In Florida, pretty much all Real Estate Agents are “Transaction Brokers.” They don’t represent you, the Buyer, nor the Seller. They have no fiduciary responsibility to anyone, they just put together the transaction. It doesn’t matter what they say or even what they put in writing to you. The Sales Contract that you signed to buy the house even spells that out in bold print, you indemnify and hold them harmless. In Florida it is “Caveat Emptor” or Buyer Beware on all properties sold. Find a good contractor to fix and good luck!
Not exactly. The broker represents the seller as an agent in the listing contract. They do not represent the buyer. As far as fiduciary responsibilities, they are required to act as a fiduciary to both the buyer and the seller by Florida law. That is different from being an agent. If they violate the fiduciary or ethics standards, they can be disciplined or lose their state license.

[Muzik]

The key word here is "known" defects. The broker and seller will just say they didn't know. I might try to talk with the home inspector who may want to protect his reputation.

[Rainger99]

I am not a lawyer or real estate agent but it appears that, in Florida, the seller has a duty to disclose any facts or conditions they know about that materially affect the value of the property.


What does the seller of a home have to disclose in Florida? - The Robertson Firm (https://robertsonfirm.com/what-does-the-seller-of-a-home-have-to-disclose-in-florida/)

[retiredguy123]

The key word here is "known" defects. The broker and seller will just say they didn't know. I might try to talk with the home inspector who may want to protect his reputation.
The only thing the home inspector could do would be to refund the cost of the inspection, which is highly unlikely. They definitely will not pay to fix the defects.

[Pixelpups]

You never say how old is your pre-owned home. I agree with finding the window installer through the permits dept. Find out how long ago was the install.

We recently enclosed our lanai and the installer has a 10-yr. warranty on the windows. But I will say that the warranty from the window manufacturer is invalid if the windows are installed improperly.

I suggest that you get a quote to fix the problem from a contractor, then approach the original installer and ask them to fix it. Also, usually, when the seal between a low-e, double pane fails, the deposit on the inside is metallic looking, not white. It has a rosette-like pattern (growing crystals?).

[banjobob]

My guess is you can spin your wheels trying to find someone to blame , or just hire a handyman to fix the problem and move on.

[TeresaE]

I second this motion

Did you or the seller purchase a home warranty? If so, this may be covered.

[retiredguy123]

Did you or the seller purchase a home warranty? If so, this may be covered.
Home warranties are a waste of money. There is not a chance that a home warranty would cover pre-existing defects like the ones described.

[karenzeee]

I bought a 2 bedroom CV in Rio Grande ( I have since moved but not for any reason, I bought a 3 bedroom). Any way I discovered water coming in after rain in the lanai on the tile floor near the windows. My inspector came back, cauked around the glass windows outside and could not figure out where it was coming from. This continued to happen after it rained and after having others inspect the windows - I decided to put ceramic tile in the lanai - problem solved as far as I was concerned.

Good Idea! We get rain in ours as well. Will have to try that fix. :)