Gas Carts pollution?

[Black Beauty]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

[Kelevision]

A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.

[golfing eagles]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

Less than your SUV, a bus, a jet airplane and a Chinese coal fired power plant. And while "1400 pounds" of CO2 may sound like a lot, our atmospheric CO2 levels are relatively low, so just consider that golf cart as producing plant food which ultimately generates O2.

[tophcfa]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

Way less than a car and roughly the same as an electric cart when one opens their eyes and considers all the factors, not just what comes out of a tailpipe.

[Bill14564]

Assuming you were honestly interested in an answer....


Pollution seems to be measured in the amount of CO2 released and the amount of CO2 released is proportional to the amount of gasoline burned.

My cart gets very close to 50mpg while my car gets more like 30mpg. Every mile that I choose to drive my cart rather than my car reduces the amount of CO2 I produce.

[BrianL99]

A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.


The average breathing, human being emits over 700 lbs. of CO2 per year.

Without CO2, life wouldn't exist.

CO2 is a not a pollutant.

[rjm1cc]

The question is how much carbon does the production of and use of a gas cart use in comparison to an electric cart. It would not surprise me that the production of the batteries offsets the carbon produced by the gas one.

[Normal]

The question is how much carbon does the production of and use of a gas cart use in comparison to an electric cart. It would not surprise me that the production of the batteries offsets the carbon produced by the gas one.

Electricity is expensive to produce. Battery production is likely much more expensive and environmentally unfriendly than any byproduct from a gas cart. In addition, those tries everyone is equipped with, the amount of energy used to produce those and the lamp black byproducts are super environmentally unfriendly.

[ohioshooter]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

Just take a sniff in one of the tunnels when there are a couple of them in there.

[golfing eagles]

Just take a sniff in one of the tunnels when there are a couple of them in there.

which proves just what???? Probably smells better than a flatulent elephant:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Keefelane66]

Without a battery of some kind a gas golf cart could not pollute

[PJMac]

Assuming you were honestly interested in an answer....


Pollution seems to be measured in the amount of CO2 released and the amount of CO2 released is proportional to the amount of gasoline burned.

My cart gets very close to 50mpg while my car gets more like 30mpg. Every mile that I choose to drive my cart rather than my car reduces the amount of CO2 I produce.
I really don't believe life is that simple. The only way this could be correct is if the golf cart used a catalytic converter and other pollution mitigation devices like your car has.

[Bill14564]

I really don't believe life is that simple. The only way this could be correct is if the golf cart used a catalytic converter and other pollution mitigation devices like your car has.

Interesting. It turns out you might be right.

Not only would burning more fuel release more carbon, the use of a catalytic converter would seem to increase the amount of CO2. One of the purposes of the catalytic converter is to convert CO to CO2. CO2 is listed as a greenhouse gas while CO is not; perhaps that is because CO has already been controlled through the use of converters. In any case, while the amount of carbon released by burning a gallon of gas is the same regardless of how it is burned, the use of a catalytic converter appears to increase the amount of CO2 produced.

Do you have data showing something different? Do you have data showing a less efficient engine burning more fuel with an attachment in place to increase the amount of CO2 would still produce less pollution?

[pokeefe45@aol.com]

Are all those Yamaha's poking a hole in the ozone? Is that why it's so hot around here?

[PJMac]

Interesting. It turns out you might be right.

Not only would burning more fuel release more carbon, the use of a catalytic converter would seem to increase the amount of CO2. One of the purposes of the catalytic converter is to convert CO to CO2. CO2 is listed as a greenhouse gas while CO is not; perhaps that is because CO has already been controlled through the use of converters. In any case, while the amount of carbon released by burning a gallon of gas is the same regardless of how it is burned, the use of a catalytic converter appears to increase the amount of CO2 produced.

Do you have data showing something different? Do you have data showing a less efficient engine burning more fuel with an attachment in place to increase the amount of CO2 would still produce less pollution?
Nope, no data to support it. Just way, way too much time reading car magazines. It just seems to make sense to me, I am not pretending to be an authority

Let me add to my response. I seem to remember reading that mowing your lawn for an hour pollutes as much as driving for like 6 hours or some crazy number like that. Again, not an expert. Our golf carts, setting aside the EFI, are closer to lawn mower tech than car tech.

[Two Bills]

The Villages Founders main mistake in my book was not making TV gas cart free, and go all electric.
For the simple reason they stink, and those exhaust fumes can't be good for anyone's health.

[TomPerry]

A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.
My golf car gets about 35 miles to the gallon. At 2.5 hours per week, at 20 miles per hour, it would consume about 74 gallons per year, and at 6 pounds per gallon, it would consume about 445 pounds of gasoline per year, maximum! How can 445 pounds of gasoline produce 1,474 pounds of CO2???? Fake news!!!!

[tophcfa]

The Villages Founders main mistake in my book was not making TV gas cart free, and go all electric.
For the simple reason they stink, and those exhaust fumes can't be good for anyone's health.

Good luck selling that book! And since the developers have no desire to limit short term rentals, which could effect home sales, do you really think they would even consider not allowing gas carts, which are by far more popular than electric?

[BrianL99]

The Villages Founders main mistake in my book was not making TV gas cart free, and go all electric.
For the simple reason they stink, and those exhaust fumes can't be good for anyone's health.

The Villages is one of the few large residential developments that allow gasoline power golf carts. I think it was probably by a function of when TV began. In those days, electrically powered golf carts had some limitations, they no longer have.

I suspect TV will eventually find a way to prohibit them in newer areas and it won't be long before the environmentalist figure out a way to ban them, in general. Gas carts are already becoming obsolete in the golf world and TV won't be far behind.

Anyone claiming that gasoline powered gas carts are better for the environment, has been sucking fumes and should clear their heads before typing.

[Bill14564]

Nope, no data to support it. Just way, way too much time reading car magazines. It just seems to make sense to me, I am not pretending to be an authority

Let me add to my response. I seem to remember reading that mowing your lawn for an hour pollutes as much as driving for like 6 hours or some crazy number like that. Again, not an expert. Our golf carts, setting aside the EFI, are closer to lawn mower tech than car tech.

It's a tough call. Comparisons are apples to oranges due to both equipment differences and emissions requirements. I found 2001 comparisons that looked better than 2010 comparisons but with the expectation that 2018 regulations would close the gap again. In addition, small engine testing usually measured the pollutants that are removed by catalytic converters but didn't consider the CO2 that are produced.

Emissions from small engines are not as clean as those from highly-regulated automobiles. Still, in striving to make the ride smoother, quieter, and cleaner (less fumes), I would guess that they aren't as bad as the lawnmowers used in the comparisons.

[mtdjed]

A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.

Calculation: ( Apology if my math is rusty)

Looking at the thread and facts given: 2.5 hours use per week, speed limit 20 MPH, quote 50 MPG , weight gallon of gas 6 pounds, pounds of CO2 emitted per year 1474.2.

2.5 hours at 20 miles per hour =50 miles per week at 50 Miles per gallon= 1 gallon per week times 52 weeks per year= 52 gallons per year times 6 pounds per gallon= 312 pounds gas used per year.

Seems something is wrong. My math? Est of MPG (Even at 12 MPG) weight of gas used is less the Pounds of CO2 produced .

Must be something scientific like combustion of gas carbon used combines with more oxygen weight than carbon weight by a function of their molecular weight. Not worth discussing molecular weight.

It seems that we are all talking about some number that none of us question and then progress into our save the world discussions.

[golfing eagles]

The Villages is one of the few large residential developments that allow gasoline power golf carts. I think it was probably by a function of when TV began. In those days, electrically powered golf carts had some limitations, they no longer have.

I suspect TV will eventually find a way to prohibit them in newer areas and it won't be long before the environmentalist figure out a way to ban them, in general. Gas carts are already becoming obsolete in the golf world and TV won't be far behind.

Anyone claiming that gasoline powered gas carts are better for the environment, has been sucking fumes and should clear their heads before typing.

Gas carts are not better for the environment, they’re just simply better

[Bill14564]

Calculation: ( Apology if my math is rusty)

Looking at the thread and facts given: 2.5 hours use per week, speed limit 20 MPH, quote 50 MPG , weight gallon of gas 6 pounds, pounds of CO2 emitted per year 1474.2.

2.5 hours at 20 miles per hour =50 miles per week at 50 Miles per gallon= 1 gallon per week times 52 weeks per year= 52 gallons per year times 6 pounds per gallon= 312 pounds gas used per year.

Seems something is wrong. My math? Est of MPG (Even at 12 MPG) weight of gas used is less the Pounds of CO2 produced .

Must be something scientific like combustion of gas carbon used combines with more oxygen weight than carbon weight by a function of their molecular weight. Not worth discussing molecular weight.

It seems that we are all talking about some number that none of us question and then progress into our save the world discussions.

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/review/carbon/gasoline.html

[Two Bills]

The way you express yourself, my guess is you are a teenager that never driven a gas car in your life: but if you have driven one,
No thanks for your participation in what you claim as "Stinky" "Unhealthy" pollution, Buster... :ho:

Well. I am 83yo. drove both types, gas an electric for over 20 years when we wintered in TV. and I'm correct when I say gas does stink, and the fumes are not good for your health.
You need to eat more more spinach.
Bill..:ho:

[GizmoWhiskers]

Way less than a car and roughly the same as an electric cart when one opens their eyes and considers all the factors, not just what comes out of a tailpipe.
Yeppers!

[Joecool]

Love my electric Star. No noise pollution or smell pollution. Not sure how gas vs electricity production compare for co2 but I can talk at low volume and have a pleasant ride everyday.

[golfing eagles]

Love my electric Star. No noise pollution or smell pollution. Not sure how gas vs electricity production compare for co2 but I can talk at low volume and have a pleasant ride everyday.

Please let us all know how pleasant the ride is when your battery dies 5 miles from home.

[Bill14564]

Please let us all know how pleasant the ride is when your battery dies 5 miles from home.

I have not experienced that but I imagine the ride is very similar to when you run out of gas 4 miles from home.

[golfing eagles]

I have not experienced that but I imagine the ride is very similar to when you run out of gas 4 miles from home.

But I can fill my tank from a can in minutes, you'll need a tow to the nearest electric outlet and then wait hours.

[Bill14564]

But I can fill my tank from a can in minutes, you'll need a tow to the nearest electric outlet and then wait hours.

You can fill your tank in minutes if you happen to be at a station when your fuel runs out otherwise you will need a tow.

I don't let the tank in my gas cart run low enough that I need to immediately find a station. Likewise, I never let the battery in my electric cart get low enough that it becomes an issue. I know my electric cart has a full charge when I leave in the morning. I'm pretty sure I topped off the gas cart within the last couple of weeks so it really ought to have enough fuel to last through today.

Yes, if both carts were to hit empty while away from home the gas cart would begin moving on its own power sooner than the electric cart would. As a practical matter, after steady, non-stop driving for six hours do drain the battery in my electric cart I would be ready for a break anyway.

[UpNorth]

But I can fill my tank from a can in minutes, you'll need a tow to the nearest electric outlet and then wait hours.

Run out of gas? Run out of electricity? Never happens unless you're just plain stupid.

[Harold.wiser]

Depends on how much you drive it!

[rsmurano]

Pollution is 1 issue but hazardous waste is more important. How are your electric golf carts and EVs recharged? A lot of them by coal plants, most people think electric is all pure, it’s not. How much of our natural resources are used to create lithium batteries. Then you got disposing issues of the batteries which are hazardous waste products and if you have these hazardous waste sites near drinking water reservoirs. They have these same issues in the northwest next to the Columbia river

[JMintzer]

You can fill your tank in minutes if you happen to be at a station when your fuel runs out otherwise you will need a tow.

There are several companies who will deliver gas to your cart within 1/2 hour...

All for a nominal fee... No tow needed...

[BrianL99]

Gas carts are not better for the environment, they’re just simply better

There you have it!

You read here, you need no further evidence!

[Two Bills]

Good luck selling that book! And since the developers have no desire to limit short term rentals, which could effect home sales, do you really think they would even consider not allowing gas carts, which are by far more popular than electric?

Wasn't trying to sell anything.
Just think TV should have made it all electric from the beginning, and I never even suggested banning gas carts as an option.
As you say, certainly not going to happen now.

[tophcfa]

Wasn't trying to sell anything.
Just think TV should have made it all electric from the beginning, and I never even suggested banning gas carts as an option.
As you say, certainly not going to happen now.

And how exactly would they have made the villages all electric without banning gas carts? Without explicitly banning gas carts, people would buy what they consider to be their best option. Just look around and you will see what most people consider the best option, YAMAHA GAS CARTS.

[ron32162]

none

[Bill14564]

And how exactly would they have made the villages all electric without banning gas carts? Without explicitly banning gas carts, people would buy what they consider to be their best option. Just look around and you will see what most people consider the best option, YAMAHA GAS CARTS.

I believe if you look around you will notice that Yamaha gas carts no longer have the dominance they did even three years ago. They are still the most common cart but they used to be almost the ONLY cart. Today, there are a whole lot of other carts on the paths.

[TomPerry]

The Villages is one of the few large residential developments that allow gasoline power golf carts. I think it was probably by a function of when TV began. In those days, electrically powered golf carts had some limitations, they no longer have.

I suspect TV will eventually find a way to prohibit them in newer areas and it won't be long before the environmentalist figure out a way to ban them, in general. Gas carts are already becoming obsolete in the golf world and TV won't be far behind.

Anyone claiming that gasoline powered gas carts are better for the environment, has been sucking fumes and should clear their heads before typing.
Golf Carts are designed for limited short distances such as golf courses and small mobile home communities. Golf Car are designed with more car like features such as headlights, turn signals, speakers, upgrade seats, enclosures, etc. and for use as a more of a main mode of transportation. The Villages is the largest 55+ community and that’s why gas golf cars will always be here. Lithium battery powered golf cars are very expensive, do not have the range, take much longer time to refuel. The FAA will not allow lithium batteries in the cargo hole of passenger aircraft, why would you want a large lithium battery in home with your family?

[nn0wheremann]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:
I have an ‘09 Yamaha that burns about three gallons of gas a month. Not much pollution in three gallons of gas.

[dtennent]

Given that the OP asked about the pollution coming from a gas powered golf cart, it is interesting to see how far in the weeds this thread has gone.

To the OP - A few people have answered the CO2 question. The other pollutants (NOx, CO, and unburned hydrocarbons) are important as well. On a car, these are significantly reduced by the catalytic converter. While a quick google search turned up some state and national figures, I did not find figures for gasoline engines in golf carts. NIOSH did have a report of a farmer who died after being in an enclosed space for 30 minutes with an 11 HP gasoline engine running. While this is not a quantitative number, it does show that a significant amount of CO was produced. If I can track down some reliable figures for the pollutants in the exhaust of small, 4 stroke engines, I will let you know.

[BrianL99]

The FAA will not allow lithium batteries in the cargo hole of passenger aircraft, why would you want a large lithium battery in home with your family?

No, but they're allowed INSIDE the passenger compartment.

Perhaps you should check the regulations, but I believe the FAA also prohibits "containers of gasoline" from being checked as luggage.

Of course, keeping a few gallons of gas in your garage, shouldn't be of any concern to your family.

[dtennent]

Golf Carts are designed for limited short distances such as golf courses and small mobile home communities. Golf Car are designed with more car like features such as headlights, turn signals, speakers, upgrade seats, enclosures, etc. and for use as a more of a main mode of transportation. The Villages is the largest 55+ community and that’s why gas golf cars will always be here. Lithium battery powered golf cars are very expensive, do not have the range, take much longer time to refuel. The FAA will not allow lithium batteries in the cargo hole of passenger aircraft, why would you want a large lithium battery in home with your family?
Does the FAA allow a gallon of gasoline in the cargo hold of a passenger plane? Just trying to get a comparison…

[JMintzer]

I believe if you look around you will notice that Yamaha gas carts no longer have the dominance they did even three years ago. They are still the most common cart but they used to be almost the ONLY cart. Today, there are a whole lot of other carts on the paths.

Interesting premise. Not sure I agree...

I'm going to start a poll. Let's see what the numbers say...

Edit: Can anyone find a link that let's you add a poll?

[toeser]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

I can't speak to your model specifically, but in total, gas golf carts in TV produce an enormous amount of pollution (including mine).

I bike seven days a week, mostly on the multimodal paths. My bikes accumulate a greasy black coating on both the tires and frame. Just touching my bike when it has not been recently cleaned leaves my fingers all black. I worry about the effect on my lungs.

I do a similar amount of riding in a northern state, and my bikes there never build up this kind of exhaust crud.

[ahrens fox]

Right on. !!!!!

[Bill14564]

Interesting premise. Not sure I agree...

I'm going to start a poll. Let's see what the numbers say...

Edit: Can anyone find a link that let's you add a poll?

I thought there were one or two polls on this about a year ago. If I can find them.....

I'm not sure what the best selling cart in the Villages is these days. All I'm saying is that there must be a lot of non-Yamahas being sold if there are enough of them on the trails to be noticeable.

[JMintzer]

I thought there were one or two polls on this about a year ago. If I can find them.....

I'm not sure what the best selling cart in the Villages is these days. All I'm saying is that there must be a lot of non-Yamahas being sold if there are enough of them on the trails to be noticeable.

Well, I first became aware of some of them when you couldn't buy a Yamaha gas cart at any of the stores.

But I still see the Yamahas outweighing the others by 10:1...

[tophcfa]

I thought there were one or two polls on this about a year ago. If I can find them.....

I'm not sure what the best selling cart in the Villages is these days. All I'm saying is that there must be a lot of non-Yamahas being sold if there are enough of them on the trails to be noticeable.

That’s not because of demand, it’s a supply shortage issue.
Long waits for a new quiet tech, but you can drive off the lot this afternoon with a new electric cart.

[dtennent]

Here is a EPA reference for pollution from nonroad compression ignition engines.

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf

A Yamaha gas golf cart has an 11.4 HP engine which would equate to about 8.5 KW. Based on this table using the row for 8 to 19 KW engines, you would expect to see:
56.1 g/hr of CO,
63.75g/hr of NOx, and
3.4g/hr of particulate matter.

This is for new engines which are in excellent running order. Engines that are not tuned properly or have substantial wear will have different numbers. None of this talks about unburned hydrocarbons of which a good bit is benzene.

Hope this helps.

[Bill14564]

That’s not because of demand, it’s a supply shortage issue.
Long waits for a new quiet tech, but you can drive off the lot this afternoon with a new electric cart.

I have no idea how many quiet techs were available last October. I know there were a bunch on the showroom floor. But that didn't matter, I was looking for an electric cart.

I can't speak for others (though I can guess) but in my case it was 100% about demand.

[golfing eagles]

I can't speak to your model specifically, but in total, gas golf carts in TV produce an enormous amount of pollution (including mine).

I bike seven days a week, mostly on the multimodal paths. My bikes accumulate a greasy black coating on both the tires and frame. Just touching my bike when it has not been recently cleaned leaves my fingers all black. I worry about the effect on my lungs.

I do a similar amount of riding in a northern state, and my bikes there never build up this kind of exhaust crud.

Please define "an enormous amount". How much is that????? How does it compare to say a riding lawnmower, a weed trimmer, a car, a bus, a jet or a Space X rocket???? Or, and this is far more likely, it is a personal opinion based on absolutely nothing factual whatsoever.

[Footer]

My golf car gets about 35 miles to the gallon. At 2.5 hours per week, at 20 miles per hour, it would consume about 74 gallons per year, and at 6 pounds per gallon, it would consume about 445 pounds of gasoline per year, maximum! How can 445 pounds of gasoline produce 1,474 pounds of CO2???? Fake news!!!!


Use your high school chemistry. Gasoline is C8H18. It takes 12.5 oxygen molecules (O2) for perfect combustion to 8 CO2 molecules and 9 water molecules (H2O). Carbon molecular weight is 12, Oxygen 16, Hydrogen 1. You can do the math yourself but 1 gasoline molecule is 114 and 8 CO2 molecules are 352. So it takes 477 pounds of gasoline to generate 1474 pounds of CO2, which is not far off from your off-the-cuff estimate. In practice, a small amount of CO is produced so the theoretical amount of CO2 is slightly less, but it's definitely not fake news.

[Vermilion Villager]

No, but they're allowed INSIDE the passenger compartment.

Perhaps you should check the regulations, but I believe the FAA also prohibits "containers of gasoline" from being checked as luggage.

Of course, keeping a few gallons of gas in your garage, shouldn't be of any concern to your family.
:boom::mademyday:

[Vermilion Villager]

Well, I first became aware of some of them when you couldn't buy a Yamaha gas cart at any of the stores.

But I still see the Yamahas outweighing the others by 10:1...
A lot of the golf carts you see out there are older which reflects the "what it was".
Last year when I bought my golf cart from golf carts in the villages they said 40% of the golf carts they sell are Lithium electric. Since Yamaha does not make a lithium powered golf cart that is readily sold here in the villages you have to assume that the numbers are trending away from Yamaha.

[bgnn54]

If CO2 causes the green house atmosphere, i.e. global warming. Then why is Mars so cold as the majority of it's atmosphere is CO2?

[Bill14564]

If CO2 causes the green house atmosphere, i.e. global warming. Then why is Mars so cold as the majority of it's atmosphere is CO2?

Is this a serious question or another attempt to dispute the effect of CO2 as a greenhouse gas? If the former then start by realizing there are far more differences than similarities and the differences matter.

[JMintzer]

A lot of the golf carts you see out there are older which reflects the "what it was".
Last year when I bought my golf cart from golf carts in the villages they said 40% of the golf carts they sell are Lithium electric. Since Yamaha does not make a lithium powered golf cart that is readily sold here in the villages you have to assume that the numbers are trending away from Yamaha.

Or... The supply chain for the Yamaha Drive2 was still lagging...

When I first settled on my home in TV (in February 2021), the stores were full of Yamahas.

6 months later, when I was looking to buy a cart, there were barely any available...

We wound up buying a really clean used cart (which probably was for the best, since we're still part timers)... Why spend all that $$$ on a new cart just to have it sit...

When we make the big move (hopefully around this time next year), we'll consider replacing the cart with a newer one. We'll try the new electrics vs the new Yamahas and make our decision...

But right now, I'm leaning towards a 2019 or newer Quietech...

[merrymini]

Anyone who states that battery power does not have pollution issues is dreaming. However, they win the fight when it comes to “emissions.” They use electricity for charging, from power plants that burn fossil fuels. That being said, I own an electric golf cart and love it. I have also owned a Tesla and loved that. There is no way to go totally electric, it just is not feasible. So it looks like it will be a side by side use issue. Why should it be one against the other?

[Pairadocs]

The question is how much carbon does the production of and use of a gas cart use in comparison to an electric cart. It would not surprise me that the production of the batteries offsets the carbon produced by the gas one.

EXACTLY, and that's the very part of "go electric" that very few, if anyone, ever mentions !

[Pairadocs]

I can't speak to your model specifically, but in total, gas golf carts in TV produce an enormous amount of pollution (including mine).

I bike seven days a week, mostly on the multimodal paths. My bikes accumulate a greasy black coating on both the tires and frame. Just touching my bike when it has not been recently cleaned leaves my fingers all black. I worry about the effect on my lungs.

I do a similar amount of riding in a northern state, and my bikes there never build up this kind of exhaust crud.

I am not disagreeing or being at all insincere in this, but just from my own observations on this: could the extraordinary number of lawn service trucks, and trailers, etc. in the villages with trucks that just gush out totally disgusting, black clouds of smoke constantly, also add to this "exhaust crud" ? I about chocked to death just waiting in the line from 466 to get through the gate to to get to Pimlico rec center. Never lived in any community, even in some wealthy areas, where so many people had lawn and landscape workers, and every day of the week ? Even on Sundays ? I always assumed most communities were like those where we have lived in different places, yard workers can only work in the development on certain days, we lived in one where on on T. and Th., but whatever, it does seem there is more black smoke coming out of old trucks than any place we've lived.... perhaps there is no truck inspection required here too ? Just one possible reason.

[Bay Kid]

What about all the burning that goes on and produces pollution?

[fdpaq0580]

The average breathing, human being emits over 700 lbs. of CO2 per year.

Without CO2, life wouldn't exist.

CO2 is a not a pollutant.

I want to decrease my carbon footprint, so I hold my breath.

[MrFlorida]

There's more carbon coming out of the politicians mouths than out golf cars.

[golfing eagles]

There's more carbon coming out of the politicians mouths than out golf cars.

Doubt that, since they don’t talk out of their mouths

[MorTech]

CO2 is not a pollutant...CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is not a pollutant. Please throw your TeeVee away.

It does emit NOx and CO but nothing compared to what naturally seeps out of the Earth...for billions of years.

[MorTech]

The one downside of an electric cart is that you aren't feeding the plants as you drive.

[kkingston57]

Assuming you were honestly interested in an answer....


Pollution seems to be measured in the amount of CO2 released and the amount of CO2 released is proportional to the amount of gasoline burned.

My cart gets very close to 50mpg while my car gets more like 30mpg. Every mile that I choose to drive my cart rather than my car reduces the amount of CO2 I produce.

Cars probably emit less pollutants/unburnt gas than a golf cart due to emission controls on cars. Just drive behind a golf cart and through a tunnel

[MrChip72]

The Villages Founders main mistake in my book was not making TV gas cart free, and go all electric.
For the simple reason they stink, and those exhaust fumes can't be good for anyone's health.

All electric carts are not practical for a lot of cases. I don't think most people from south of 44 would feel very comfortable taking an electric cart to LSL and back. People with gas carts make that trip all the time.

I have a Yamaha gas cart, but we rented a lithium electric cart when we had extra visitors for almost a week.

We almost ended up with the electric cart running out of juice on the way home just by going to a restaurant and then one of the squares and back in a 4 hour span. We were down to something like 5% battery according to the dashboard. Was not much more than 20 miles of total driving. It seems when they claim a 40 mile range it becomes almost half that if you're averaging 20-25 MPH.

[UpNorth]

I don't care if my lithium electric cart has "only" a 60 mile range, or that it is "bad" for the environment. The driving experience is far better than any brand of gas cart around, and zero maintenance to boot. Gas carts stink in more ways than one.

[Bill14564]

All electric carts are not practical for a lot of cases. I don't think most people from south of 44 would feel very comfortable taking an electric cart to LSL and back. People with gas carts make that trip all the time.

I have a Yamaha gas cart, but we rented a lithium electric cart when we had extra visitors for almost a week.

We almost ended up with the electric cart running out of juice on the way home just by going to a restaurant and then one of the squares and back in a 4 hour span. We were down to something like 5% battery according to the dashboard. Was not much more than 20 miles of total driving. It seems when they claim a 40 mile range it becomes almost half that if you're averaging 20-25 MPH.

I have driven in my electric cart from Eisenhower to Savannah Center to Spanish Springs to Lake Sumter Landing to Sawgrass to Ednas to Brownwood and back to Eisenhower with at least 1/4 charge remaining. That's 42 miles with at least 14 miles remaining. People south of 44 can drive to Lake Sumter Landing and back with no concern in a modern EV cart.

[tophcfa]

I have driven in my electric cart from Eisenhower to Savannah Center to Spanish Springs to Lake Sumter Landing to Sawgrass to Ednas to Brownwood and back to Eisenhower with at least 1/4 charge remaining. That's 42 miles with at least 14 miles remaining. People south of 44 can drive to Lake Sumter Landing and back with no concern in a modern EV cart.

Sounds like you are a responsible electric cart owner who realizes the range of your cart and acts accordingly. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you. I recently spoke with an employee of one of the golf cart rescue services and learned that their number of rescue calls has exploded along with the overall increase in electric cart usage in the Villages. They are either going to have to increase rates for everyone or begin charging different rates for electric and gas carts because of the significantly higher number of rescue calls per electric cart customer. I was told many people have a false sense of security regarding their carts range because they have newer technology lithium batteries and fail to keep their carts adequately charged. As an owner of gas golf carts, I hope they opt for tiered pricing rather than increasing rates for all types of golf carts.

[mtdjed]

I have driven in my electric cart from Eisenhower to Savannah Center to Spanish Springs to Lake Sumter Landing to Sawgrass to Ednas to Brownwood and back to Eisenhower with at least 1/4 charge remaining. That's 42 miles with at least 14 miles remaining. People south of 44 can drive to Lake Sumter Landing and back with no concern in a modern EV cart.

That's great. Just be careful doing the same trip next year, the following year, etc.

I agree that electric carts are quieter, less smelly and create less local pollution.

I just happen to own a Yesteryear gas cart built in 2006 on a 2004 Club Car Frame. We use it for golf and mail, neighborhood travel, nightly trips to lake Sumter Landing, local shopping to Colony and Lake Sumter landing and a few other things. We fill it whenever gage says near half but only when near a gas source, ie no special trips. Always have a 2.5 Gallon reserve of fuel properly stored for emergency. I am guessing no more than 50 Miles per week traveled. Fuel usage, fill up every couple of weeks, whenever we reach 1/2 tank. Usually 2 Gal +.

Bottom line - no worry about distance on any Village Trip even if Power Outage for several weeks. No concern regarding distance due to age of battery. No towing because of cart Fuel/Power requirements.

Would not make any change unless current cart S T Bed, My impact on global pollution is less than the cost of producing a new electric cart

[Bill14564]

Sounds like you are a responsible electric cart owner who realizes the range of your cart and acts accordingly. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you. I recently spoke with an employee of one of the golf cart rescue services and learned that their number of rescue calls has exploded along with the overall increase in electric cart usage in the Villages. They are either going to have to increase rates for everyone or begin charging different rates for electric and gas carts because of the significantly higher number of rescue calls per electric cart customer. I was told many people have a false sense of security regarding their carts range because they have newer technology lithium batteries and fail to keep their carts adequately charged. As an owner of gas golf carts, I hope they opt for tiered pricing rather than increasing rates for all types of golf carts.

I've often thought it was unfortunate more people were not like me :D

That's interesting information about the cart rescues. As easy as it is to keep the cart charged I am surprised that some have problems with it. It will be a shame if rates have to increase due to those that can't remember to plug the cart in or check the charge before leaving.

[Bay Kid]

I fill my cart. I go 200 plus miles before I fill up. I never worry about running out of juice for a week or two. Just my choice.

[MorTech]

Gas vehicles do not emit Carbon...

HC + O2 -> H2O + CO2

Plants consume CO2 + H2O and emit O2 for the Meatsacks.

[Bill14564]

Gas vehicles do not emit Carbon...

HC + O2 -> H2O + CO2

Plants consume CO2 + H2O and emit O2 for the Meatsacks.

Of course this is oversimplified and neglects the effects of nitrogen in the air and inefficient/incomplete burning of the fuel in the engine.

But that aside, do you see that "C" in CO2 on the right hand side? In chemistry that represents carbon and being on the right hand side shows that it is a product of the reaction. Sure, it is bound with O2 in your oversimplified equation but that could arguably be worse for the environment.

[MorTech]

Carbon is not Carbon Dioxide....How do you not know that? What is your CV?

Is Hydrogen water?

Modern cars actually scrub the natural air of CO and NOx...Mother Nature doesn't wear a catalytic converter and has been spuing them for billions of years.

Environmentalism is a religion of nihilistic 5th grade dropouts...Their Sky-mommy is Gaia and their Daughter of Gaia is a mentally ill Swedish teenager named Greta.

I kid you not!

CO2 is plant fertilizer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOwHT8yS1XI

As the planet naturally warms...Atmospheric CO2 and H2O increases.

[Malsua]

Carbon is not Carbon Dioxide.

Thank you. It irritates me to no end when we hear about "carbon emissions". Carbon is an element. Carbon Dioxide is a molecular compound.

I think the idea behind conflating the two was to evoke images of graphite which is black. To make people think of carbon emissions as dirty, not as plant food.

Do you think the same message would be conveyed if they said "Diamond emissions?" After all, diamonds are 99.5% carbon and at STP have more carbon in them than CO2.

When you are driving on the street, you're making diamonds. Considering most electricity is not made from renewables, this applies to your Telsa, electric cart or gas vehicle.

[Bill14564]

Thank you. It irritates me to no end when we hear about "carbon emissions". Carbon is an element. Carbon Dioxide is a molecular compound.

I think the idea behind conflating the two was to evoke images of graphite which is black. To make people think of carbon emissions as dirty, not as plant food.

Do you think the same message would be conveyed if they said "Diamond emissions?" After all, diamonds are 99.5% carbon and at STP have more carbon in them than CO2.

When you are driving on the street, you're making diamonds. Considering most electricity is not made from renewables, this applies to your Telsa, electric cart or gas vehicle.

There is no "conflating the two," you just don't seem to (be willing to) understand the processes involved.

Rising levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are the concern. The CO2 is created during the burning of fossil fuels when the C in the fuel combines with O2 to create the CO2. Without burning those fuels, the C in those fuels would still be bound to some Hs and other elements in the form of oil, coal, natural gas deposits, and others. Mining, refining, and burning those fuels moves the C out of the ground, combines it with O, and emits it into the atmosphere as CO2. There is no conflating, just an understanding of the processes.

[BrianL99]

Carbon is not Carbon Dioxide....How do you not know that? What is your CV?

Is Hydrogen water?

Modern cars actually scrub the natural air of CO and NOx...Mother Nature doesn't wear a catalytic converter and has been spuing them for billions of years.

Environmentalism is a religion of nihilistic 5th grade dropouts...Their Sky-mommy is Gaia and their Daughter of Gaia is a mentally ill Swedish teenager named Greta.

I kid you not!

CO2 is plant fertilizer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOwHT8yS1XI

As the planet naturally warms...Atmospheric CO2 and H2O increases.

It's encouraging to see that at least one person in The Villages, has their head screwed on straight and understands basic chemistry. The religious fervor of the faux environmentalists is scary. They've sucked in a political agenda and regurgitated it as science.

[BrianL99]

There is no "conflating the two," you just don't seem to (be willing to) understand the processes involved.

Rising levels of CO2 in the atmosphere is the concern. The CO2 is created in burning fossil fuels when the C in the fuel combines with O2 to create the CO2. Without burning those fuels, the C in those fuels was bound to some Hs and other elements in the form of oil, coal, natural gas deposits, and others. Mining, refining, and burning those fuels moves the C out of the ground, combines it with O, and emits it into the atmosphere as CO2. There is no conflating, just an understanding of the processes.

Most folks who passed 6th Grade Science class, have some basic understanding of the process.

Most of us also learned CO2 is necessary for life.

Many have forsaken what they knew of chemistry & biology and replaced it a political agenda, that refutes science.

Folks should stop drinking the Kool-Aid ... the Red Fruit Punch is particularly harmful.

[Bill14564]

Most folks who passed 6th Grade Science class, have some basic understanding of the process.

...

And yet....

[Normal]

I wouldn’t worry about any emissions from the newer carts. The earth will warm despite whatever you do. A golf cart’s output is modest at best. Electric carts do consume more energy through the power grid and the actual battery construction, but gas carts also do a comparable contribution to our environment. Whatever floats your boat. Scientifically, a volcano would wipe all efforts of either position to the side anyway. So just enjoy the life you have.

[Malsua]

There is no "conflating the two," you just don't seem to (be willing to) understand the processes involved.



Do you understand that the spectrum of energy that is absorbed and reflected by C02 molecules is already 100% saturated?

Can you process what that means? It means that no matter how much CO2 is in the atmosphere, the ability of C02 is already maxxed out in it's ability to affect the Earth.

Specifically, CO2 molecules absorb energy in several distinct infrared bands, called vibrational modes. The most significant absorption bands of CO2 occur around 2.7 μm(micrometers), 4.3 μm, and 15 μm. These absorption bands are related to the vibrational modes of the CO2 molecule.

How much of the Sun's energy are they currently absorbing in those bands? It's almost 100%.

Get it yet? If 100% of the atmosphere were CO2, it would still be absorbing the SAME amount of energy. 400ppm, 1000ppm, 10,000ppm, would have exactly zero change on the amount of warming that CO2 is doing.

[Bill14564]

Do you understand that the spectrum of energy that is absorbed and reflected by C02 molecules is already 100% saturated?

Can you process what that means? It means that no matter how much CO2 is in the atmosphere, the ability of C02 is already maxxed out in it's ability to affect the Earth.

Specifically, CO2 molecules absorb energy in several distinct infrared bands, called vibrational modes. The most significant absorption bands of CO2 occur around 2.7 μm(micrometers), 4.3 μm, and 15 μm. These absorption bands are related to the vibrational modes of the CO2 molecule.

How much of the Sun's energy are they currently absorbing in those bands? It's almost 100%.

Get it yet? If 100% of the atmosphere were CO2, it would still be absorbing the SAME amount of energy. 400ppm, 1000ppm, 10,000ppm, would have exactly zero change on the amount of warming that CO2 is doing.

Interesting post and possibly correct as far as it goes.

I have no idea (nor, I imagine, do you) that all the energy from those wavelengths is being absorbed by the CO2 in the atmosphere. If so, the planet would look black in those wavelengths when observed from space. Perhaps that is the case but I have not found the data that shows that.

Regardless of whether 100% of those wavelengths are absorbed, your discussion doesn't continue to discuss what happens next. CO2 does not absorb that energy and just become plump and round, it eventually transfers that energy kinetically or emits that energy in a different IR wavelength. Where that kinetic energy and IR energy goes is greatly dependent on the concentration of CO2.

The lower the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere the greater the amount of that energy can reach the upper atmosphere and be released into space. The higher the concentration of CO2 the less energy reaches the upper atmosphere and the more it affects the lower atmosphere and us. Similar to a down-filled blanket - the less dense the blanket the more heat transfers through it while the more dense the blanket the more heat is held close to the body.

Attempting to make the argument that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and does not contribute to warming is a lost cause. The science is clear that CO2 does contribute to warming. The question is whether the amount of CO2 emitted by consuming fossil fuels is a significant factor in global warming and climate change. There seems to be a strong correlation between the rate of warming and the concentration of CO2 contributed by man but so far there does not seem to be proof of causation.


Back to golf carts: There doesn't seem to be any good comparison between the emissions of a newer, efficient, high-mpg golf cart and a car. The car is designed to be efficient and has a catalytic converter to clean up some of the emissions but the golf cart burns less fuel and would therefore generate fewer emissions. At what point do the dirtier emissions generated from a smaller amount of fuel exceed the cleaner emissions generated from a larger amount of fuel? There is information for older lawn maintenance equipment but I haven't been able to find information for newer golf carts.

[UHH47]

I can only relate my theory to PROPANE gas.
One full tank of Propane that I use on my grill is 20 lb, in relation that would be 73 tanks of CO2 gas released into the atmosphere. If you burn 1 gallon of gas in 2.5 hrs that would be 52 gallons of gas/year = 436 lb (8.4lb per gallon). With my figures of simple math, gasoline is producing 338% more CO2 than the weight of gasoline.
No wonder the vegetation is growing like crazy.
Please give me guidance.

QUOTE=Kelevision;2227451]A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.[/QUOTE]

[tophcfa]

A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.

I hope the parents who paid close to half a million dollars for their kid’s education are proud that the kid figured that out. Oh wait, the kid probably took out student loans and is waiting for them to be forgiven?

[BrianL99]

__________________

Why do people insist on making claims without looking them up first, do they really think no one will check? Proof by emphatic assertion rarely works.



Yet some just keep on beating the drum louder and louder, while sipping the Kool Aid.

[ton80]

I can only relate my theory to PROPANE gas.
One full tank of Propane that I use on my grill is 20 lb, in relation that would be 73 tanks of CO2 gas released into the atmosphere. If you burn 1 gallon of gas in 2.5 hrs that would be 52 gallons of gas/year = 436 lb (8.4lb per gallon). With my figures of simple math, gasoline is producing 338% more CO2 than the weight of gasoline.
No wonder the vegetation is growing like crazy.
Please give me guidance.

QUOTE=Kelevision;2227451]A gas-powered golf cart with a 10.5 horsepower engine that operates for 2.5 hours each week emits 1474.2 pounds of CO2 each year, according to a study by Princeton University.[/QUOTE]

Guidance: There are many inaccuracies in your simple math assumptions but the biggest error is that you did not add the weight of Oxygen in the resulting CO2 when gasoline is combusted..

Using gas in golf cart uses about 1 gallon in 2.5 hours (2.gal x 20 mpg=50mpg which is typical for gas cart). Round numbers yearly use is 52 gal regular gasoline.

Gasoline is about 6 lbs per gal for regular
a. 13% Hydrogen which produces 0 lbs CO2 when burned
b. 87% Carbon by weight or 5.22 lbs C but adds 10.44 lbs Oxygen
to make CO2. Total CO2 is 15.66 lbs per gal
c Annual CO2 is 52 x 15.6 = 811 lbs per year at 50 mpg

To get to the Princeton numbers, the mileage on the gas cart is more like 27-28 mpg. My 50 mpg is probably too high.

[tuccillo]

50 mpg for Yamaha gas carts manufactured in the last 10 years is about right. Mine is typically a bit over 50 mpg.




Guidance: There are many inaccuracies in your simple math assumptions but the biggest error is that you did not add the weight of Oxygen in the resulting CO2 when gasoline is combusted..

Using gas in golf cart uses about 1 gallon in 2.5 hours (2.gal x 20 mpg=50mpg which is typical for gas cart). Round numbers yearly use is 52 gal regular gasoline.

Gasoline is about 6 lbs per gal for regular
a. 13% Hydrogen which produces 0 lbs CO2 when burned
b. 87% Carbon by weight or 5.22 lbs C but adds 10.44 lbs Oxygen
to make CO2. Total CO2 is 15.66 lbs per gal
c Annual CO2 is 52 x 15.6 = 811 lbs per year at 50 mpg

To get to the Princeton numbers, the mileage on the gas cart is more like 27-28 mpg. My 50 mpg is probably too high.

[Bay Kid]

I get 50 mpg on my 4 seat Yamaha. A little less when riding 4 people.

[bcsnave]

We own a 2020 Yamaha...how much pollution does it create?:blahblahblah:

Well it all depends if you are "rollin coal" or not :)

https://youtu.be/e-6jXwqWIDQ