Happy Juneteenth!!! What does it mean to you?

[skarra]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

[Boffin]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

Nothing.

[Caymus]

Holiday for public sector workers

[margaretmattson]

As a retired, Christian, woman, I hope this holiday becomes known as Freedom Day. Different than the 4th of July which celebrates our nation freeing ourselves from British rule, Juneteenth celebrates the rights of every individual.

To celebrate, I took a few moments and counted my many blessings. As a woman, I am treated exactly as a man, as an elder I am allowed to retire and enjoy the rest of my years as I see fit, and as a Christian, I am allowed to practice my religion openly. In many countries, the people are not as fortunate.

Yes, the official holiday commemorates the freeing of black slaves. But, because we became a nation that truly believes in freedom for all, women eventually fought for their rights, children were no longer forced to work, a generation of Americans fought world wars to stop those who believed in racial superiority, a black woman refused to give up her seat, a black man had a dream, gays became proud, and so many more fought and continue to fight for individual freedom. No man, woman, or child should be stripped of these basic, "inalienable" rights.

[DARFAP]

Same. Nothing.

[Rainger99]

At least I won’t lose money in the stock market today.

[Stu from NYC]

Sorry do not think this should be a federal holiday. To me this was pandering.

[firefighter4u]

another day off for some.

[Bay Kid]

Sorry do not think this should be a federal holiday. To me this was pandering.

I told my kids to get a gov job. Tons of vacation, sick leave and any excuse holidays paid for by the taxpayers.

[Sabella]

Sorry do not think this should be a federal holiday. To me this was pandering.

I agree with you Stu.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

For me personally, nothing. For black Americans whose ancestors were slaves in this country, it means a lot. It means - that two and a half years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, two months AFTER the end of the Civil War, the slaves in Texas were finally informed that they were free citizens.

Juneteenth as a day of celebration isn't a new thing. But it's mostly been held in Texas, where the actual event occurred. From 1866 til the 1920's it was mostly a local thing. it became more commercialized in the 1920's and 1930's. By 1979, every state and territory of the USA has had some official recognition of the day.

That's a pretty big deal. I didn't know about it until a few years ago. I'm glad I know about it now. It's gives a greater understanding of the lives and cultural backgrounds of my fellow human beings.

[Taltarzac725]

I am of German/Irish/Scotch/English and some other ancestry. When we came to America varies. The German side came around 1870 and the English/Scotch/Irish earlier for some and much earlier for others. Like 1650 for the Stimson tree.

All of these have suffered in some way or another through wars, illness, prejudice, stupidity and greed.

But some groups other than mine have endured unfathomable evil like those from many parts of Africa and Asia. And especially those people who are here first.

The African slave trade was profitable for many who targeted other humans as commodities to be owned. And some of these people defending that trade were native Africans. This often involved tribal warfare and enslaving conquered groups for profits. That has been happening for as long as man started living in large groups.

Do think this Federal Holiday will help some people to come to a deeper understanding of history especially about that of the slave trade.


The Woman King tells a very good story about the slave trade and people caught up in it.

[Keefelane66]

For me personally, nothing. For black Americans whose ancestors were slaves in this country, it means a lot. It means - that two and a half years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, two months AFTER the end of the Civil War, the slaves in Texas were finally informed that they were free citizens.

Juneteenth as a day of celebration isn't a new thing. But it's mostly been held in Texas, where the actual event occurred. From 1866 til the 1920's it was mostly a local thing. it became more commercialized in the 1920's and 1930's. By 1979, every state and territory of the USA has had some official recognition of the day.

That's a pretty big deal. I didn't know about it until a few years ago. I'm glad I know about it now. It's gives a greater understanding of the lives and cultural backgrounds of my fellow human beings.
I’m glad someone had the right answer. Thank You

[Taltarzac725]

Rosewood is a very good movie to celebrate this June 19. It is about an African American town here in Florida which was wiped out due to hate, stupidity, fear of change, and many other things.

[tophcfa]

It means I gotta wait until tomorrow to take care of of couple things I was gonna do today because many businesses are closed.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It means I gotta wait until tomorrow to take care of of couple things I was gonna do today because many businesses are closed.

"Many" businesses are not closed. "Most" businesses will be open. Banks are closed, there's no mail delivery today, post offices are closed. Perhaps a few black-owned small retail stores or restaurants might be closed but other than that - everything is open around here.

[Stu from NYC]

That was in 2020, not 2002. Hopefully that was a typo on your end. If not, then maybe - it's even more important than I thought it was, that Black History be taught in every school in the country.

A better idea is to teach our kids more about American history including the good and the bad to get a better idea of how much we have advanced as a nation.

[mrf0151]

At least I won’t lose money in the stock market today.
You need to get away from Parady.

[tophcfa]

"Many" businesses are not closed. "Most" businesses will be open. Banks are closed, there's no mail delivery today, post offices are closed. Perhaps a few black-owned small retail stores or restaurants might be closed but other than that - everything is open around here.

Unfortunately, I’m currently at our home up north in Massachusetts where just about everything is closed. At least the YMCA is open, so I can go swimming. As a federal holiday there won’t be any golf today, crowed courses with weekend/holiday rates and no generous weekday senior citizen discounts. When I worked I lived for weekends and holidays, now I can’t wait for weekdays.

[Bill14564]

A better idea is to teach our kids more about American history including the good and the bad to get a better idea of how much we have advanced as a nation.

Wouldn't the history of blacks in America be, by definition, American history? Focusing only on the "bad" would paint the wrong picture but so would focusing only on the "good."

[Taltarzac725]

I took a course in Minorities in American Society at the University of Nevada, Reno and recall sitting next to a man from the Ivory Coast who was royalty according to him and the Professor. He might have been pulling my leg but he had made some of the most racist comments I have heard about the African Americans whose ancestors had come here while his ancestors ruled in some capacity. They probably stayed in power by aligning with the slave traders.

On another note, for this class, I did a presentation on my grandfather's fight to keep his land on Cape Cod. His ownership was being challenged in court by the Wampanoag who were asserting they still were a tribe under US laws and had a claim to this land. Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashpee_Wampanoag_Tribe)

[manaboutown]

I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico and only knew of a couple of black kids. Most of the kids I knew were either Anglo or Nuevomexicanos, kids having hispanic ancestry going back to Spain. Their ancestors had originally settled in New Mexico, not Mexico or other latin country.

Anyway, one black kid was named Willy. I met Willy at the downtown YMCA where I was learning to swim. Willy showed up with a different bike every day until he was arrested for stealing bikes. The other was a girl in my large high school I never met. Thus I had no real knowledge of American black culture.

Then in 1965 I ended up at Ft. Jackson in South Carolina for US Army basic training followed by playing in the post band. Most of the RAs in the band were blacks and I was put in the RA barracks although I was in the Maryland National Guard as the NG barracks was full to capacity. It was an interesting experience to say the least. When June rolled around the blacks became excited in a joyful way. They were celebrating Juneteenth I was told after I asked why they were suddenly so happy. When I asked what it was about I was told that was the day Lincoln freed the slaves. Not exactly correct but close enough. Hearing that I could certainly understand their high spirits.

As to whether Juneteenth should be a taxpayer funded holiday for Federal, State and Civic civil servants, bankers and postal workers I would have to vote no.

[Taltarzac725]

10 Must Watch Slavery Movies - Best Movies Right Now (https://bestmoviesrightnow.com/slavery-movies/)

There are lots of movies out there about the slave trade and slavery.

Rosewood - Rotten Tomatoes (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rosewood)

[Stu from NYC]

Wouldn't the history of blacks in America be, by definition, American history? Focusing only on the "bad" would paint the wrong picture but so would focusing only on the "good."

We have been teaching our kids less and less about American history which is incredibly foolish.

Teach ALL of our history good and bad including black history as well as we became a melting pot having people from all over the world come here.

BTW did you notice that I said good and bad? How else do people learn how we came to be.

[Taltarzac725]

We have been teaching our kids less and less about American history which is incredibly foolish.

Teach ALL of our history good and bad including black history as well as we became a melting pot having people from all over the world come here.

BTW did you notice that I said good and bad? How else do people learn how we came to be.

Well said. There is certainly a lot of great history out there to learn from.

The Great Courses has lot of material on US history. The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/)

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/african-american-history-from-emancipation-through-jim-crow) African American History: From Emancipation through Jim Crow

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/americas-long-struggle-against-slavery)
America's Long Struggle against Slavery

[BrianL99]

That was in 2020, not 2002. Hopefully that was a typo on your end. If not, then maybe - it's even more important than I thought it was, that Black History be taught in every school in the country.

Yes, I meant 2020.

Why should schools teach "Black History"? History should be color blind.

[margaretmattson]

Well said. There is certainly a lot of great history out there to learn from.

The Great Courses has a lot of material on US history. The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/)

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/african-american-history-from-emancipation-through-jim-crow) African American History: From Emancipation through Jim Crow

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/americas-long-struggle-against-slavery)
America's Long Struggle against Slavery

Agree! Learning and Federal Holidays should not be one-sided. Since Juneteenth is now a federal holiday all races, beliefs, religions, minorities, what have you should be included.
.
It doesn't seem right to celebrate the freedom of only one race. The real truth is that every race has been forced into slavery at one time or another. Unfortunately, it is still happening today - sex trafficking, forced child labor, menial wages no man can live on, etc.

If you are going to declare Juneteenth a federal holiday don't leave anyone out! Who is to say one man's suffering is greater than another?

[ThirdOfFive]

Well, I suppose there are worse things to celebrate than freedom, but I see this "Juneteenth" holiday as just another manifestation of the divisiveness that is plaguing America. Bear in mind that Juneteenth is the ONLY federal holiday that is limited to one particular ethnicity.

Of course, we can celebrate along with them over the fact that they are no longer held in bondage--but then why not include (say) the Chinese, whose suffering particularly on America's West Coast from the mid-19th Century to the early 20th was in many respects equal to, and in many cases, exceeding that of the African-American ethnicity in this country. Slaves represented an outlay of capital--in many cases a substantial one--but for many of the Chinese their "employers" paid nothing to the workers, paying instead a daily pittance to the procurers who brought them over here, many against their will, to serve essentially as slaves to people who had no interesting in protecting an investment at all, resulting in human abuse that in many cases exceeded that of the Black slaves in the antebellum South. Or how about the Irish, who were literally untermenschen in many parts of america long before 1930s Germany ever popularized the concept. Or how about the mentally handicapped, who before our "enlightened" time in America were all too often treated about the same as cattle; rounded up and institutionalized where very often they were forced to work for the profit of those who were essentially nothing more than slavemasters, and whose treatment very often was barbaric: I know of cases where such people, if too vocal for their masters' taste, had their vocal chords torn out, and where "corrective discipline" if they were lucky was to be sprayed with ice-cold water from hoses, but which was all too often a straight jacket and a totally dark room for hours--sometimes days. Or how about society's rejects; the orphaned children of the poor and and the penniless, when the idea of "treatment" was to be institutionalized behind high fences and stone walls and put into the care of "house parents" (there were other terms too) who very often drove them like cattle, forcing them to work for whatever reason, and where death was often just termed "failure to thrive" but what was later discovered to be just the lack of positive human contact--just a hug or two, that was in all too many cases not forthcoming even when they were dying. Don't believe me? Then google Minnesota State School - Owatonna, where I used to live. It used to be Minneota's orphanage, but it is a museum now, and one of the "exhibits" is the children's cemetery where row upon row of little white crosses bear witness to those kids who were just not strong enough to survive the cruelty and the oppression.

Sure. Let's celebrate freedom. But don't continue to divide America by doing it.

[eweissenbach]

What it means to me is that it is a great day for all the bigots to get irritated.

[Stu from NYC]

What it means to me is that it is a great day for all the bigots to get irritated.

How is it that we disagree with something and all you can say is we are bigots. So if you disagree with something I write will it be ok to call you a bigot or worse?

[bob47]

Agree! Learning and Federal Holidays should not be one-sided. Since Juneteenth is now a federal holiday all races, beliefs, religions, minorities, what have you should be included.
.
It doesn't seem right to celebrate the freedom of only one race. The real truth is that every race has been forced into slavery at one time or another. Unfortunately, it is still happening today - sex trafficking, forced child labor, menial wages no man can live on, etc.

If you are going to declare Juneteenth a federal holiday don't leave anyone out! Who is to say one man's suffering is greater than another?

I believe everyone is included, is invited to celebrate, and gets the day off regardless of race, religion, or beliefs.

[bob47]

Wouldn't the history of blacks in America be, by definition, American history? Focusing only on the "bad" would paint the wrong picture but so would focusing only on the "good."

I agree with this but unless I'm mistaken, doing this gets you painted with the "woke" brush.

[JMintzer]

How is it that we disagree with something and all you can say is we are bigots. So if you disagree with something I write will it be ok to call you a bigot or worse?

Of course not! That would make you a racist! :p

[Bill14564]

Yes, I meant 2020.

Why should schools teach "Black History"? History should be color blind.

History wasn't color blind; color had a lot to do with historical events.

Now, if you mean that history should be taught without singling out any particular color, race, nationality, etc, I agree with that. The concern is that it isn't being taught that way. I don't know if that's true. I remember learning about black historical figures as well as white.

I remember learning about positive events as well as negative events. I am sure that there is more history about blacks in America that I could have learned but I am also sure that there is more history about whites (or Asians or Irish or Canadians) in America that I could have learned. I haven't attended a grade-school history class in a very long time so all I know is what I hear on the news and I've learned be skeptical of that.

[LuvNH]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

If you have followed the posts on this site, I am sure you have your answer.

[Pballer]

A better idea is to teach our kids more about American history including the good and the bad to get a better idea of how much we have advanced as a nation.

You came to the wrong state for this.

[manaboutown]

10 Must Watch Slavery Movies - Best Movies Right Now (https://bestmoviesrightnow.com/slavery-movies/)

There are lots of movies out there about the slave trade and slavery.

Rosewood - Rotten Tomatoes (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rosewood)

Movies are the worst possible source to look for actual, factual history or other information. They are produced primarily to make money. The actual history is embellished and even misportrayed in order to generate high emotions for both entertainment and propaganda purposes.

[Bill14564]

Movies are the worst possible source to look for actual, factual history or other information. They are produced primarily to make money. The actual history is embellished and even misportrayed in order to generate high emotions for both entertainment and propaganda purposes.

Hmm.... I'm not convinced movies are worse than online forums.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, I meant 2020.

Why should schools teach "Black History"? History should be color blind.

History should absolutely -not- be color blind. It should be inclusive, not exclusive. Atrocities were committed on a variety of peoples throughout history, American, European, World - of all races, all Nationalities, all religions, all ethnicities, all genders, disabilities, abilities, sexual preferences, marital status, lack of marital status. We need to accept these histories, learn OF them, and learn FROM them.

Otherwise it'll just continue to happen. Maybe black folks will be the "target du jour" again once we're done with the transgender trend. Or maybe all those anti-abortion nuts will start targeting women who don't have children, and start a brand new tirade a la Handmaid's Tale, berating them for not marrying and whelping the next generation. Or maybe they'll come back to the Jews. Or maybe it'll be the Irish again. Or the Italians again. Or maybe old people again.

Round and round it goes, where it stops, everyone knows. As long as we say "let's not talk about that, it is unpleasant and hey look how great we are now!" we will continue the cycle.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

History wasn't color blind; color had a lot to do with historical events.

Now, if you mean that history should be taught without singling out any particular color, race, nationality, etc, I agree with that. The concern is that it isn't being taught that way. I don't know if that's true. I remember learning about black historical figures as well as white.

I remember learning about positive events as well as negative events. I am sure that there is more history about blacks in America that I could have learned but I am also sure that there is more history about whites (or Asians or Irish or Canadians) in America that I could have learned. I haven't attended a grade-school history class in a very long time so all I know is what I hear on the news and I've learned be skeptical of that.

If the teaching of history was color blind, we would not have learned about Rosa Parks. She is known BECAUSE she was a black activist. If she were a white activist, she wouldn't have become the tipping point of the Civil Rights Movement. If Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't black, he wouldn't have been nearly as influential as he became - and probably wouldn't have been assassinated.

Many things have happened in this country -because- this or that person, group of people, church, school, child, was black.

How do you think the Civil War would've gone, if the slaves were all white Irish instead of black African?

[mickey100]

What it means to me is that it is a great day for all the bigots to get irritated.

Exactly. I'm not surprised at the reactions on this forum...entirely predictable. I personally think a holiday like this makes a lot more sense than one like Columbus Day.

[Taltarzac725]

I agree with this but unless I'm mistaken, doing this gets you painted with the "woke" brush.

Nothing bad with looking at the bad as well as the good. And there is also the great. The various Smithsonian museums are a great place to check the best of US history out. They rather recently opened up an African American history museum in DC. A People’s Journey, A Nation’s Story | National Museum of African American History and Culture (https://nmaahc.si.edu/)

[Bill14564]

If the teaching of history was color blind, we would not have learned about Rosa Parks. She is known BECAUSE she was a black activist. If she were a white activist, she wouldn't have become the tipping point of the Civil Rights Movement. If Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't black, he wouldn't have been nearly as influential as he became - and probably wouldn't have been assassinated.

Many things have happened in this country -because- this or that person, group of people, church, school, child, was black.

How do you think the Civil War would've gone, if the slaves were all white Irish instead of black African?

I disagree. I didn't learn about Rosa Parks because there was a unit on blacks in America and her name was pulled out of a hat, I learned about Rosa Parks because she had a significant role in American history. The same for Dr. MLK and other historical figures: I believe I learned about them due to their impact on American history, not because of their color.

Who knows if Dr. King would have been assassinated if he was not black. There were two Kennedy assassinations in the same timeframe even though they were not black.

It is true that many things in this country have occurred because someone was or was not black (or white or Asian or Irish or Canadian) and that is why choosing what history to teach should be color blind. Choose the events to teach regardless of color, don't look at color and then pick events to fill a quota.

[Taltarzac725]

I disagree. I didn't learn about Rosa Parks because there was a unit on blacks in America and her name was pulled out of a hat, I learned about Rosa Parks because she had a significant role in American history. The same for Dr. MLK and other historical figures: I believe I learned about them due to their impact on American history, not because of their color.

Who knows if Dr. King would have been assassinated if he was not black. There were two Kennedy assassinations in the same timeframe even though they were not black.

It is true that many things in this country have occurred because someone was or was not black (or white or Asian or Irish or Canadian) and that is why choosing what history to teach should be color blind. Choose the events to teach regardless of color, don't look at color and then pick events to fill a quota.

Nicely said. I had an African American History Professor while at the U of Nevada, Reno who was one of my better history professors. A few of them threw in as much sex and violence as possible. He was not one of these. I had to drop English History because we had to do a speech on a topic and I doubted if I could do anything with the students attracted to that kind of course which highlighted the sex lives of the English royalty and the like.

[Number 10 GI]

None of my ancestors owned slaves. I've never owned a slave, in fact I've never met a slave, so I feel no guilt because slavery happened in this country. There is no one in this country that was alive during that time in history and there is no one alive now that was a slave. Slavery has been practiced by every country in the world and every race has been a source of slaves at one time or another. As was pointed out by another poster, slavery still happens in some countries.
My, a bunch of greats, grandfather on my mother's side of the family, got in trouble with the law in England. In the mid 1700's he was forcibly sent to America as an indentured servant, not much different than a slave. He was able to gain his freedom by fighting as a soldier in the Revolutionary War and served at Valley Forge. It was a pretty common practice by the owners of indentured servants to extend their servitude by claiming that their upkeep added their indebtedness with no end in sight in paying off the debt. I want my bunches of great grandfather to have his holiday for his forced labor.

[manaboutown]

Who knows if Dr. King would have been assassinated if he was not black. There were two Kennedy assassinations in the same timeframe even though they were not black.

MLK was a plagiarist and should have been dedoctored. If he was white he surely would have been.

"Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic."

From: Martin Luther King Jr. authorship issues - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#:~:text=B oston%20University%2C%20where%20King%20received,wh o%20wrote%20about%20the%20topic).

50 years on, what they won’t tell you about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr… Like How He Plagiarized the overly romanticized ‘I Have A Dream’ Speech - St. Lucia News From The Voice (https://thevoiceslu.com/2018/04/50-years-on-what-they-wont-tell-you-about-dr-martin-luther-king-jr-like-how-he-plagiarized-the-overly-romanticized-i-have-a-dream-speech/)

and also...FBI tapes show Martin Luther King Jr had 40 affairs and 'laughed' as friend raped parishioner | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7071713/FBI-tapes-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-40-affairs-laughed-friend-raped-parishioner.html)

Whoa! Michael changed his name to Martin?

"In 1957, Martin Luther King officially revised his own birth certificate. It was a straightforward process: on July 23d of the same year someone simply crossed out the name Michael and replaced it with “Martin Luther, Jr.”

The new name was written in black ink next to the old one."

From: How MLK Changed His Name - US Birth Certificates (https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/articles/how-mlk-change-name-on-birth-certificate)

[margaretmattson]

Only one group was subjected to kidnapping from another country, imported to this country, for the exclusive purpose of being used as chattel and breed-mares for plantations and construction to build this country, then after an entire war broke out to fight against this, became freed, and only two years later after they were officially free, did word get to an entire state to let them know that they had been freed two years prior.

So yeah - it's pandering to one group. When this happens to you, we can pander to your group too.

The Civil War was not started to end slavery. It was started because the southern states were the minority in the national government. The northern states outvoted them in nearly every issue. Not able to be fairly represented by the government, the southern states succeeded from the union and attempted to form a new country. Lincoln freed the slaves only when it was apparent the North was going to win the war.

Many if not all races have been taken (kidnapped) from their homes. You have to remember there was no machinery available to do the necessary work. In Roman times, Wars we're fought and the losers were taken as slaves, the pyramids in Egypt we're built by slaves, England not only enslaved blacks they enslaved Indians, ( both in USA and in India), Irish, and anyone who did not believe in Christianity. The Nazis stole Jews from their homes and gassed them, the Rusdians built a walk and locked up several Eastern European countries against their will, the list goes on and on! Every nationality has been subject to slavery, torment, and hatred.

[Stu from NYC]

The Civil War was not started to end slavery. It was started because the southern states were the minority in the national government. The northern states outvoted them in nearly every issue. Not able to be fairly represented by the government, the southern states succeeded from the union and attempted to form a new country. Lincoln freed the slaves only when it was apparent the North was going to win the war.

Many if not all races have been taken (kidnapped) from their homes. You have to remember there was no machinery available to do the necessary work. In Roman times, Wars we're fought and the losers were taken as slaves, the pyramids in Egypt we're built by slaves, England not only enslaved blacks they enslaved Indians, ( both in USA and in India), Irish, and anyone who did not believe in Christianity. The Nazis stole Jews from their homes and gassed them, the Rusdians built a walk and locked up several Eastern European countries against their will, the list goes on and on! Every nationality has been subject to slavery, torment, and hatred.

Very true and well said. Better to have a freedom day to celebrate freedom for all instead of what we now have. Since my grandparents came here about 100 years ago what do I have to feel guilty about slavery in the US?

[Taltarzac725]

Very true and well said. Better to have a freedom day to celebrate freedom for all instead of what we now have. Since my grandparents came here about 100 years ago what do I have to feel guilty about slavery in the US?

It seems more about celebrating the roots of many people here now rather than evils done in the past. They did have a great deal of diversity to deal with like not even being seen as a person but more like property back then. And even much later.

I think there were maybe three African Americans in my U of MN Law School Class of 1989. This was in a Class of just over 250.

I studied with one of them quite a bit for my First Semester finals. He turned out to be a false friend. So, I have had nothing to do with him since my 3rd year of law school.

I did have the luck to find a group of real friends while in law school.

[blueash]

Do you think Black Americans should feel any connection to July 4th? Was July 4th Independance Day for them? And yet about 1/4 of all humans in the US were Black on July 4th 1776. Should Black Americans object to the "pandering" of this country celebrating an event that only impacted the rights of white males who represented less than 1/2 the humans here?

July 4 was a statement of benefit for white males, but also the Declaration of Independance and later the Constitution gave a hint of a promise that someday perhaps basic human dignity and freedom might, just might, apply to all genders and all races. Everyone should be encouraged to read Fredrick Douglas's thoughts on July 4th (https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/nations-story-what-slave-fourth-july#:~:text=His%20speech%2C%20given%20at%20an,rej oice%2C%20I%20must%20mourn.%E2%80%9D), even if some of you think teaching about the Black view of history is pandering. I suppose Ann Frank's views of Nazis and Geromino's thoughts about the expansion of the US have no role in teaching history either.

The words "a more perfect Union" recognized we were not there yet. We still are not. But the recognition that Black Americans were not property but people came only with the defeat of the slavery supporting South and the freedom of slaves, as well as changes to our Constitution.

Juneteenth celebrates that the promise to Black people in this nation was finally fulfilled, at least in part. No other race or nationality was declared not human, subhuman, property here.

And the idea that this country can express some joy that we all got something right, that the people and the government helped out an oppressed minority because it was the right thing to do even if it caused some pain and societal disruption... that is a very important thing to celebrate, to acknowledge, and hopefully to emulated for those groups which today are not equal citizens because of ignorant hatred or political expediency

[mickey100]

Do you think Black Americans should feel any connection to July 4th? Was July 4th Independance Day for them? And yet about 1/4 of all humans in the US were Black on July 4th 1776. Should Black Americans object to the "pandering" of this country celebrating an event that only impacted the rights of white males who represented less than 1/2 the humans here?

July 4 was a statement of benefit for white males, but also the Declaration of Independance and later the Constitution gave a hint of a promise that someday perhaps basic human dignity and freedom might, just might, apply to all genders and all races. Everyone should be encouraged to read Fredrick Douglas's thoughts on July 4th (https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/nations-story-what-slave-fourth-july#:~:text=His%20speech%2C%20given%20at%20an,rej oice%2C%20I%20must%20mourn.%E2%80%9D), even if some of you think teaching about the Black view of history is pandering. I suppose Ann Frank's views of Nazis and Geromino's thoughts about the expansion of the US have no role in teaching history either.

The words "a more perfect Union" recognized we were not there yet. We still are not. But the recognition that Black Americans were not property but people came only with the defeat of the slavery supporting South and the freedom of slaves, as well as changes to our Constitution.

Juneteenth celebrates that the promise to Black people in this nation was finally fulfilled, at least in part. No other race or nationality was declared not human, subhuman, property here.

And the idea that this country can express some joy that we all got something right, that the people and the government helped out an oppressed minority because it was the right thing to do even if it caused some pain and societal disruption... that is a very important thing to celebrate, to acknowledge, and hopefully to emulated for those groups which today are not equal citizens because of ignorant hatred or political expediency

:BigApplause:

[Caymus]

Do you think Black Americans should feel any connection to July 4th? Was July 4th Independance Day for them? And yet about 1/4 of all humans in the US were Black on July 4th 1776. Should Black Americans object to the "pandering" of this country celebrating an event that only impacted the rights of white males who represented less than 1/2 the humans here?

July 4 was a statement of benefit for white males, but also the Declaration of Independance and later the Constitution gave a hint of a promise that someday perhaps basic human dignity and freedom might, just might, apply to all genders and all races. Everyone should be encouraged to read Fredrick Douglas's thoughts on July 4th (https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/nations-story-what-slave-fourth-july#:~:text=His%20speech%2C%20given%20at%20an,rej oice%2C%20I%20must%20mourn.%E2%80%9D), even if some of you think teaching about the Black view of history is pandering. I suppose Ann Frank's views of Nazis and Geromino's thoughts about the expansion of the US have no role in teaching history either.

The words "a more perfect Union" recognized we were not there yet. We still are not. But the recognition that Black Americans were not property but people came only with the defeat of the slavery supporting South and the freedom of slaves, as well as changes to our Constitution.

Juneteenth celebrates that the promise to Black people in this nation was finally fulfilled, at least in part. No other race or nationality was declared not human, subhuman, property here.

And the idea that this country can express some joy that we all got something right, that the people and the government helped out an oppressed minority because it was the right thing to do even if it caused some pain and societal disruption... that is a very important thing to celebrate, to acknowledge, and hopefully to emulated for those groups which today are not equal citizens because of ignorant hatred or political expediency

Eliminate all Public Sector Holidays.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Actually. Slavery is still very much alive in the world.

Countries that Still Have Slavery 2023 (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery)

The U of MN Law Library had quite a large section of one floor for a Human Rights Library. Human Rights Library | University of Minnesota Law School (https://law.umn.edu/human-rights-center/research/human-rights-library)

Yes but we're talking about what happened, and is happening, here in THIS country. Juneteenth is an American holiday, because of an event that happened in Texas, USA, on June 19th.

There is also slavery here in the USA by the way, presently. But most of the buyers prefer young white girls.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Eliminate all Public Sector Holidays.

I'd be fine with getting rid of Christmas as a Federal holiday. Why are we pandering to one group? Why don't we have Eid as a Federal holiday? Why not Yom Kippur? Why not Beltane? Every religion has its "big deal Holy days" but only Christians get an automatic paid day off or bonus pay for working it, and don't have to use up personal time for the privilege.

[Rainger99]

I'd be fine with getting rid of Christmas as a Federal holiday. Why are we pandering to one group? Why don't we have Eid as a Federal holiday? Why not Yom Kippur? Why not Beltane? Every religion has its "big deal Holy days" but only Christians get an automatic paid day off or bonus pay for working it, and don't have to use up personal time for the privilege.

Jews, Muslims, and atheists also get Christmas off.

[Caymus]

I'd be fine with getting rid of Christmas as a Federal holiday. Why are we pandering to one group? Why don't we have Eid as a Federal holiday? Why not Yom Kippur? Why not Beltane? Every religion has its "big deal Holy days" but only Christians get an automatic paid day off or bonus pay for working it, and don't have to use up personal time for the privilege.

I worked most Christmas Holidays. Our factories were open 365 days/year. Christmas usually meant that we performed maintenance functions or worked on capital upgrades.

[manaboutown]

I'd be fine with getting rid of Christmas as a Federal holiday. Why are we pandering to one group? Why don't we have Eid as a Federal holiday? Why not Yom Kippur? Why not Beltane? Every religion has its "big deal Holy days" but only Christians get an automatic paid day off or bonus pay for working it, and don't have to use up personal time for the privilege.

When I worked as a patent attorney at Eastman Kodak, the Jewish attorneys in our department were given some of the Jewish holidays off as paid holidays in addition to Christmas so they ended up with more holidays than the rest of us. Don't have a clue to how it was handled throughout the rest of the company. The same practice went on elsewhere I worked as well.

[Boomer]

This thread seems like it might be a good place to make a suggestion to my fellow TOTVers. Here goes:

I have only recently taken up listening to podcasts. (I can get a lot of stuff done around the house and yard with my AirPods and my podcast app.)

My favorite podcast is Freakonimics: The Hidden Side of Everything. The topics discussed are varied and almost always interesting to me.

Ironically, the one that popped up this morning while I was doing lots of laundry was an interview with Arthur Brooks, an economist, who for 10 years ran one of the most influential, conservative think tanks in the world.

Even though this podcast is a couple of years old, it still widely applies to what is happening to us, the American people — and why — and what we need to try to do about it. He addresses this big divide in a calm, realistic, thought-provoking manner. He gives stats on how a lot of people truly feel about the way we are.

He delves a little bit into brain science — which is what I have long thought has to be the root-cause of the way we are acting.

The title of the podcast is “How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt?” If you search Freakonomics podcasts, you will find it. It is Episode 478 from October 13, 2021.

If only a few of you look for this podcast and listen to it and maybe even pass it along to someone else, it will have been worth taking the time to write this post. There is something in it for allllllll of us to think about and maybe actually act upon.

The podcast takes 46:39 to listen to……not only could it give you something to consider that could be important in your own life’s relationships but important to our country, too.

I hope some of you will give this podcast a listen. I bet you could find a few things to agree with or think further about…….or, at least, you could get some boring housework done while you listen.

Optimistic Boomer

[Jima72]

About as much as kwanzai

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Jews, Muslims, and atheists also get Christmas off.

You're missing the point. Each religion has its own Holy day, where they need to take a day off from work. Jewish bank employees don't get a day off on Yom Kippur if that day falls on a Wednesday. They have to request it in advance, and use up a personal day - something Christian bankers don't have to do, if they want Christmas off. They get it off, with pay. A free Holy day for them, while everyone else has to "pay" for theirs by using up a personal day, or vacation pay. Or in some cases, they have to take a day off without getting paid at all. While Christians get the day off with pay, because it is customarily a paid holiday on a federal level.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No podcasts for me, I need to see the people who are speaking, or have closed captions. My brain isn't good at listening to voices when my eyes can't see their faces. I'm the same way on the phone; I can't stand talking on it for more than a few minutes at a time.

[JMintzer]

You came to the wrong state for this.

Nonsense...

[JMintzer]

If the teaching of history was color blind, we would not have learned about Rosa Parks. She is known BECAUSE she was a black activist. If she were a white activist, she wouldn't have become the tipping point of the Civil Rights Movement. If Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't black, he wouldn't have been nearly as influential as he became - and probably wouldn't have been assassinated.

Many things have happened in this country -because- this or that person, group of people, church, school, child, was black.

How do you think the Civil War would've gone, if the slaves were all white Irish instead of black African?

Somebody completely missed the point...

[JMintzer]

History should absolutely -not- be color blind. It should be inclusive, not exclusive. Atrocities were committed on a variety of peoples throughout history, American, European, World - of all races, all Nationalities, all religions, all ethnicities, all genders, disabilities, abilities, sexual preferences, marital status, lack of marital status. We need to accept these histories, learn OF them, and learn FROM them.

Otherwise it'll just continue to happen. Maybe black folks will be the "target du jour" again once we're done with the transgender trend. Or maybe all those anti-abortion nuts will start targeting women who don't have children, and start a brand new tirade a la Handmaid's Tale, berating them for not marrying and whelping the next generation. Or maybe they'll come back to the Jews. Or maybe it'll be the Irish again. Or the Italians again. Or maybe old people again.

Round and round it goes, where it stops, everyone knows. As long as we say "let's not talk about that, it is unpleasant and hey look how great we are now!" we will continue the cycle.

No one ever suggested "let's not talk about that"...

[Stu from NYC]

No one ever suggested "let's not talk about that"...

Very true, we should be talking about all of our history not just one group.

[JMintzer]

Only one group was subjected to kidnapping from another country, imported to this country, for the exclusive purpose of being used as chattel and breed-mares for plantations and construction to build this country, then after an entire war broke out to fight against this, became freed, and only two years later after they were officially free, did word get to an entire state to let them know that they had been freed two years prior.

So yeah - it's pandering to one group. When this happens to you, we can pander to your group too.

The Irish Slaves have entered the chat...

[JMintzer]

Seriously, is that the best you got? Chinese were brought here against their will, wanna give them their own holiday.

Lots of other groups had a real tough time when they got, Jews, Italians, Irish and on and on. Give them all their own days?

I wouldn't mind a day... Maybe Passover... But let the Italians cater it...

Sebastian Maniscalco says it best...

https://youtu.be/5KQgRn4j-DE

[tophcfa]

I'd be fine with getting rid of Christmas as a Federal holiday. Why are we pandering to one group? Why don't we have Eid as a Federal holiday? Why not Yom Kippur? Why not Beltane? Every religion has its "big deal Holy days" but only Christians get an automatic paid day off or bonus pay for working it, and don't have to use up personal time for the privilege.

I wish we could get rid of Thanksgiving and Easter and every other friggin holiday and birthday that falls in between the two. That way my wife wouldn’t insist on being up north so she could see the kids and we could spent the entire time between November 1st until the end of April at our Villages home. And while I’m hoping and wishing, taxes shouldn’t need to be filed until July 15th. How good would that be : )

[manaboutown]

You're missing the point. Each religion has its own Holy day, where they need to take a day off from work. Jewish bank employees don't get a day off on Yom Kippur if that day falls on a Wednesday. They have to request it in advance, and use up a personal day - something Christian bankers don't have to do, if they want Christmas off. They get it off, with pay. A free Holy day for them, while everyone else has to "pay" for theirs by using up a personal day, or vacation pay. Or in some cases, they have to take a day off without getting paid at all. While Christians get the day off with pay, because it is customarily a paid holiday on a federal level.

This is total BS based on what I have experienced. The Jews with whom I worked were given paid religious holidays in addition to our normal holidays.

[Sabella]

How is it that we disagree with something and all you can say is we are bigots. So if you disagree with something I write will it be ok to call you a bigot or worse?

Hey Stu that’s the new game that the left plays.

[banjobob]

Means nothing really to anybody just that in Texas when 2000 slaves were freed. Just a day in our colorful American history. Somebody thought what great idea to celebrate and make a paid day off for federal workers.

[Ele201]

It’s important to commemorate the day that African Americans were declared free from being enslaved. I don’t celebrate it personally but I will share this: My sister is in a nursing home, and I have gotten to know one of its employees well because he facilitates FaceTime calls for me with my sis, using his own phone. He’s an African American, and for the past two years, I have sent him an email with “Happy Juneteenth!” He responds with so much appreciation that I acknowledged it. And that makes my day.

[WingedFoot78]

Funny that no one has mentioned the American Indian. Talk about being treated badly. This was their land first.

[Sandancer]

:mademyday:As a retired, Christian, woman, I hope this holiday becomes known as Freedom Day. Different than the 4th of July which celebrates our nation freeing ourselves from British rule, Juneteenth celebrates the rights of every individual.

To celebrate, I took a few moments and counted my many blessings. As a woman, I am treated exactly as a man, as an elder I am allowed to retire and enjoy the rest of my years as I see fit, and as a Christian, I am allowed to practice my religion openly. In many countries, the people are not as fortunate.

Yes, the official holiday commemorates the freeing of black slaves. But, because we became a nation that truly believes in freedom for all, women eventually fought for their rights, children were no longer forced to work, a generation of Americans fought world wars to stop those who believed in racial superiority, a black woman refused to give up her seat, a black man had a dream, gays became proud, and so many more fought and continue to fight for individual freedom. No man, woman, or child should be stripped of these basic, "inalienable" rights.

[Maressa Smith]

Yes, I meant 2020.

Why should schools teach "Black History"? History should be color blind.

Should being the operative word.

[chappy]

It means I gotta wait until tomorrow to take care of of couple things I was gonna do today because many businesses are closed.
All it means is “NO MAiL”,

[threeonemiles@outlook.com]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.
It means nothing. Another made up holiday to keep us distracted and clueless.

[Bill14564]

Means nothing really to anybody just that in Texas when 2000 slaves were freed. Just a day in our colorful American history. Somebody thought what great idea to celebrate and make a paid day off for federal workers.

The commonly accepted number is more like 250,000. (but hey, what's two orders of magnitude when you have a point to make)

[Captainpd]

It means that Africa is still the largest slave country in the World. Slave trading started there and is still going on today

[Wondering]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.
If you are African American it is a meaningful day. Not all Federal holidays are meaningful to all of Americans.

[DonnaNi4os]

As a retired, Christian, woman, I hope this holiday becomes known as Freedom Day. Different than the 4th of July which celebrates our nation freeing ourselves from British rule, Juneteenth celebrates the rights of every individual.

To celebrate, I took a few moments and counted my many blessings. As a woman, I am treated exactly as a man, as an elder I am allowed to retire and enjoy the rest of my years as I see fit, and as a Christian, I am allowed to practice my religion openly. In many countries, the people are not as fortunate.

Yes, the official holiday commemorates the freeing of black slaves. But, because we became a nation that truly believes in freedom for all, women eventually fought for their rights, children were no longer forced to work, a generation of Americans fought world wars to stop those who believed in racial superiority, a black woman refused to give up her seat, a black man had a dream, gays became proud, and so many more fought and continue to fight for individual freedom. No man, woman, or child should be stripped of these basic, "inalienable" rights.

Excellent response!

[DonnaNi4os]

For me personally, nothing. For black Americans whose ancestors were slaves in this country, it means a lot. It means - that two and a half years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, two months AFTER the end of the Civil War, the slaves in Texas were finally informed that they were free citizens.

Juneteenth as a day of celebration isn't a new thing. But it's mostly been held in Texas, where the actual event occurred. From 1866 til the 1920's it was mostly a local thing. it became more commercialized in the 1920's and 1930's. By 1979, every state and territory of the USA has had some official recognition of the day.

That's a pretty big deal. I didn't know about it until a few years ago. I'm glad I know about it now. It's gives a greater understanding of the lives and cultural backgrounds of my fellow human beings.

Thank you for informing the uninformed. I wrote a briefer but similar message under the other Juneteenth question asking about food on that day.

[bark4me]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.
It's just another date on the calendar

[Byte1]

Tomorrow means more to me, first day of summer. How does the first day of summer affect me? It doesn't, but it means more to me than a holiday invented for an occasion in this country that happened a long time before I was born and one that had no effect on me. It's just a day that meant nothing to me before I first heard of it and still means very little more. I am sure that it is important to some, probably the WOKE folks. Since it does not change anything for me, it doesn't bother me either. Apparently, humans NEED to celebrate just about anything that comes to mind. Have fun. Tomorrow is the first day of summer.....whoopie!

[Byte1]

The commonly accepted number is more like 250,000. (but hey, what's two orders of magnitude when you have a point to make)

Sorry, what was your point? :rant-rave:

[Regorp]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

It does not apply to me, as I celebrate our country as a whole, not it's pieces. Happy for freedom for all. But when is the day we celebrate the original residents of this country -native Americans who suffered the most for the invaders who took their land with empty promises. When is that holiday?

[Bill14564]

The commonly accepted number is more like 250,000. (but hey, what's two orders of magnitude when you have a point to make)

Sorry, what was your point? :rant-rave:

Simply as stated, my point was that there were not 2,000 slaves freed in TX but more like 250,000.

If you want to read more into it then my point is that declaring the freedom of 250,000 humans over two years after they were supposed to have been freed means more than nothing to nobody.

[OhioBuckeye]

Skarra, the best way to explain it without getting into trouble about what I say & nothing bad, Google, “What is a Juneteenth Holiday”, & it’ll tell you exactly what & who the holiday is for, then you can make your own assumption!

[Boomer]

Is anybody who follows TOTV really surprised at how this thread is going?

Speaking of slavery, it has been a year since Roe v. Wade was overturned………

Margaret Atwood’s dystopian novel The Handmaid’s Tale, published in 1985 as a work of fiction, is about a society where women are subjugated by patriarchal rule and have no reproductive rights……

If you have not, and never will read the book or watch the television version, at least take a look at the summary of the plotline…….then think about the past year’s headlines. Compare the two, do a little forward thinking, and see if your skin starts crawling in response to what we are seeing now as women’s rights are being shoved back more than 50 years.

Let’s face it, there is more behind the celebration of the demise of Roe than just the religious aspect. A big part of it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with figuratively smacking women back into “knowing their place.” Not only will this affect the lives of poor women, it will also affect hiring practices and promotions for career women.

Yet, none dare call it slavery…….

Boomer

[karostay]

At least I won’t lose money in the stock market today.
Or receive junk mail other than that just another day

[Geodyssey]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

Nothing.

It's not a real holiday, it's pandering / patronizing. Kinda sad.

[Geodyssey]

A better idea is to teach our kids more about American history including the good and the bad to get a better idea of how much we have advanced as a nation.

The South was good (still is), the North was bad (still is, more-or-less) . That's why 'yall carpetbaggers moved here. Now you're wrecking the South with your Yankee culture.

[Bill14564]

Is anybody who follows TOTV really surprised at how this thread is going?

Speaking of slavery, it has been a year since Roe v. Wade was overturned………

Margaret Atwood’s dystopian novel The Handmaid’s Tale, published in 1985 as a work of fiction, is about a society where women are subjugated by patriarchal rule and have no reproductive rights……

If you have not, and never will read the book or watch the television version, at least take a look at the summary of the plotline…….then think about the past year’s headlines. Compare the two, do a little forward thinking, and see if your skin starts crawling in response to what we are seeing now as women’s rights are being shoved back 50 years.

Let’s face it, there is more behind the celebration of the demise of Roe than just the religious aspect. A big part of it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with figuratively smacking women back into “knowing their place.”

Yet, none dare call it slavery…….

Boomer

One possible reason that none dare call it slavery... slavery didn't involve "figuratively smacking," slavery involved actual owning, actual beating, and actual killing.

You don't like the recent ruling and neither do I but attempting to draw an equivalence to slavery will lead to arguments that distract from the real issue.

[MrFlorida]

Nothing.

It's not a real holiday, it's pandering / patronizing. Kinda sad.

Yep, same here...fake holiday.

[tophcfa]

All it means is “NO MAiL”,

Now there’s a reason to celebrate. No bills and garbage mail : )

[Cybersprings]

History should absolutely -not- be color blind. It should be inclusive, not exclusive. Atrocities were committed on a variety of peoples throughout history, American, European, World - of all races, all Nationalities, all religions, all ethnicities, all genders, disabilities, abilities, sexual preferences, marital status, lack of marital status. We need to accept these histories, learn OF them, and learn FROM them.

Otherwise it'll just continue to happen. Maybe black folks will be the "target du jour" again once we're done with the transgender trend. Or maybe all those anti-abortion nuts will start targeting women who don't have children, and start a brand new tirade a la Handmaid's Tale, berating them for not marrying and whelping the next generation. Or maybe they'll come back to the Jews. Or maybe it'll be the Irish again. Or the Italians again. Or maybe old people again.

Round and round it goes, where it stops, everyone knows. As long as we say "let's not talk about that, it is unpleasant and hey look how great we are now!" we will continue the cycle.

Just got out of 30-day forum jail this morning for a post that couldn't hold a candle to this one as far as insulting others. Since I am not allowed to point out when a particular side (can't name the side) is insulting others directly, just had to report it. Now, watch and see...nothing will be done, because it was only one particular group that was insulted. And they are fair game.

[Windguy]

Well, considering TV is a place where the vast majority of the residents hate people who aren't white, christian, and straight, you won't see much celebrating around here. Those of us who do care celebrate quietly. Don't want to rile the neighbors. I'm not flying a Pride flag in honor of my gay nephew for the same reason. The venom I hear coming out of the mouths of some of my neighbors scares me.

[Cybersprings]

It’s important to commemorate the day that African Americans were declared free from being enslaved.

Great post....except for the fact that it isn't what Juneteeth is.

[RedChariot]

Not having being born in this country, I'm curious about what this means to members and what if anything they are doing to commemorate the day beyond it being a federal holiday.

Or, if it is so new, then perhaps there hasn't been enough time for traditions to form. It probably doesn't help that it is not a holiday for all.

What does it mean to me? NOT MUCH. Another made up holiday like Kwanzaa. Having said that I do honor the soldiers on both sides that caught in the Civil War.

[Boomer]

One possible reason that none dare call it slavery... slavery didn't involve "figuratively smacking," slavery involved actual owning, actual beating, and actual killing.

You don't like the recent ruling and neither do I but attempting to draw an equivalence to slavery will lead to arguments that distract from the real issue.



Yes. Of course slavery was wrong and it was hell, but we’re done with that as a country now. And, of course, it should not be forgotten. We screwed up with years of denying equal education and when we denied returning WW2 veterans the loans for houses that white veterans could easily get. (Most of us “white people” here on TOTV have done just fine with our real estate equity over decades. But Black families were left behind as real estate took off when Black vets returned from WW2 and could not get loans for homes……

I know all that unfair history. It should not be swept away, but we need to move forward now. This Juneteenth celebration should not be hurting anything. But, of course, like so many other things, it is being used as a weapon to divide us. I have no problem with this new holiday. Let it be. But I sure am creeped out by some of the remarks here……though not surprised.

Back to your criticism of me. That was a knee-jerk reaction on your part……

So? How dare I use a metaphor? Why on earth would that have been taken literally?

But this is just an example of how moderates are jumped on by extremes from both sides, when we are actually the only hope for America’s future.

Boomer

PS: Btw, I hope you will track down that Freakonomics podcast I wrote about earlier in this thread somewhere. Even though the guy interviewed calls himself a conservative thinker, he is actually a moderate thinker — an endangered species.

Oh well, I’m done with this thread now that I have managed to pizz off both extremes, I guess my work here is done. :) Such is the life of a moderate. (sigh)

Boomer

[Cybersprings]

Is anybody who follows TOTV really surprised at how this thread is going?

Speaking of slavery, it has been a year since Roe v. Wade was overturned………

Margaret Atwood’s dystopian novel The Handmaid’s Tale, published in 1985 as a work of fiction, is about a society where women are subjugated by patriarchal rule and have no reproductive rights……

If you have not, and never will read the book or watch the television version, at least take a look at the summary of the plotline…….then think about the past year’s headlines. Compare the two, do a little forward thinking, and see if your skin starts crawling in response to what we are seeing now as women’s rights are being shoved back more than 50 years.

Let’s face it, there is more behind the celebration of the demise of Roe than just the religious aspect. A big part of it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with figuratively smacking women back into “knowing their place.” Not only will this affect the lives of poor women, it will also affect hiring practices and promotions for career women.

Yet, none dare call it slavery…….

Boomer

Sorry, not sorry, you (or any other woman) lost a made up constitutional right (meaning it wasn't a constitutional right) to kill babies in the womb for convenience. Yet, few dare call it murder.....

[Cybersprings]

Well, considering TV is a place where the vast majority of the residents hate people who aren't white, christian, and straight, you won't see much celebrating around here. Those of us who do care celebrate quietly. Don't want to rile the neighbors. I'm not flying a Pride flag in honor of my gay nephew for the same reason. The venom I hear coming out of the mouths of some of my neighbors scares me.

Start your post off with a lie (unless you have anything other than vitriol to back up your post) and then continue to attack throughout your post. Interesting how that is allowed on this forum. In case you were wondering, disagreeing with your opinion does not make something venomous. We are not required to support every idea that one side puts forth in America. Try again.

[manaboutown]

Of all the made up holidays Cinco de Mayo is my favorite!