Titanic touring sub lost.

[Taltarzac725]

Submarine used to view Titanic wreckage went missing in the Atlantic. A search is underway | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/19/europe/titanic-shipwreck-vessel-missing-intl/index.html)

I hope they get back to the surface. I do wonder how they can search at almost two and a half miles down. Submarine on expedition to Titanic wreck goes missing, "search and rescue operation" underway - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-missing-rescue-mission-underway-newfoundland-canada/)

[Taltarzac725]

Some more on the story. Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65953872)

I recall boarding the USS Drum in Mobile Bay, AL. in 1996 and was feeling cramped. USS Drum – USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park (https://www.ussalabama.com/explore/uss-drum/)

[retiredguy123]

Question: Who will pay for the U.S. Coast Guard search and rescue mission of a non-US vessel that charges weathly tourists $250K each to visit the Titanic?

Answer: U.S. taxpayers

[Stu from NYC]

As long as the ship is whole they have 4 days to get them out apparently.

[Taltarzac725]

As long as the ship is whole they have 4 days to get them out apparently.

I hope they find them but it sounds like if they reach the surface they cannot open the sub from inside. They have to wait for someone to find them in time before their air runs out.

I do seem to see history repeating itself. Too Big to Fail: Disaster, Colossal Hubris, and The Titanic | by Lindsay Merbaum | Medium (https://medium.com/@LindsayMerbaum/too-big-to-fail-disaster-colossal-hubris-and-the-titanic-f34308497fc1)

[Tvflguy]

After reviewing all the news coverage, I conclude that the greatest issue that caused the silence from the sub is …. Implosion. Only takes a tiny leak or crack - and a millisecond to implode like an aluminum can.

Good news, it’s an instantaneous death. Bad news, no way for anyone to know and search/rescue is futile.

We may never know. And their families.

I would like to know how many successful dives this sub made that deep. It’s risky business.

[kkingston57]

Question: Who will pay for the U.S. Coast Guard search and rescue mission of a non-US vessel that charges weathly tourists $250K each to visit the Titanic?

Answer: U.S. taxpayers

Hope not. Bet there is not any way for the REAL equipment needed to do this job is not anywhere near this area.

[retiredguy123]

Hope not. Bet there is not any way for the REAL equipment needed to do this job is not anywhere near this area.
I agree. But, our country is spending millions on this project, and now they are sending a nuclear sub to the area, which will cost even more millions. I'll bet you a dollar that we will not ask Canada or the submarine owner to reimburse us for anything. And, they won't provide the U.S. taxpayers any accounting on how much of their money they spent. We are suckers.

[mtdjed]

After reviewing all the news coverage, I conclude that the greatest issue that caused the silence from the sub is …. Implosion. Only takes a tiny leak or crack - and a millisecond to implode like an aluminum can.

Good news, it’s an instantaneous death. Bad news, no way for anyone to know and search/rescue is futile.

We may never know. And their families.

I would like to know how many successful dives this sub made that deep. It’s risky business.

Logic would seem to support a catastrophic event. If it was simply a communication failure, I would think that protocol would be to end the event.

Also, seems that even if design does not accommodate exit from the inside, that it could at minimum provide access to air from/to the inside.

If a private company develops a risky activity for profit with no government approval or agreement, there should be no expectation of unlimited risk or expenditure by the government. Perhaps there is a huge insurance policy covering some expense.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

After reviewing all the news coverage, I conclude that the greatest issue that caused the silence from the sub is …. Implosion. Only takes a tiny leak or crack - and a millisecond to implode like an aluminum can.

I tried to hope for an electrical failure, but after reading all the backup systems. . i reluctantly have to agree with the same conclusion.

former licensed ship captain and pilot. . .

[Taltarzac725]

June 20, 2023 Missing Titanic sub search news (https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-submersible-missing-search-06-20-23/index.html)

Saw this on CNN a few minutes ago.

Missing Titanic Sub: ‘Banging’ Sounds Heard During Search – Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/)

[Malsua]

If you look into the various details on this craft, you realize it is not particularly a robust vehicle.

Maybe the off brand Xbox controller they use to drive it around failed.

It probably imploded though. All-in-all, that would be better than sitting on the bottom waiting for a rescue that won't make it in time. By the time the pressure ignited your clothing like you were in the ignition chamber of a diesel engine, the water would snuff it out. When the flash hit their retinas, they're dead. Just poof, gone.

[ThirdOfFive]

I agree. But, our country is spending millions on this project, and now they are sending a nuclear sub to the area, which will cost even more millions. I'll bet you a dollar that we will not ask Canada or the submarine owner to reimburse us for anything. And, they won't provide the U.S. taxpayers any accounting on how much of their money they spent. We are suckers.
I can think of a whole lot more awful ways for a nuclear sub to spend its time than on a mission of mercy.

[Sabella]

I agree. But, our country is spending millions on this project, and now they are sending a nuclear sub to the area, which will cost even more millions. I'll bet you a dollar that we will not ask Canada or the submarine owner to reimburse us for anything. And, they won't provide the U.S. taxpayers any accounting on how much of their money they spent. We are suckers.

This goes on all the time, when our government officials, send firefighters and any type of aid or assistance to foreign countries. Keep working that overtime and you and your family have to do without some thing because of the price while USA taxpayers pay the bill. let’s not forget about the members of Congress and their families and members of their staff .They go on all these fact-finding trips (vacations)to foreign countries on the taxpayers dime .

[ThirdOfFive]

This goes on all the time, when our government officials, send firefighters and any type of aid or assistance to foreign countries. Keep working that overtime and you and your family have to do without some thing because of the price while USA taxpayers pay the bill. let’s not forget about the members of Congress and their families and members of their staff .They go on all these fact-finding trips (vacations)to foreign countries on the taxpayers dime .
It is the American Way, and not a bad one in my opinion. Much of the time, whenever there is tragedy or catastrophe in the world, America is there to help. Not paid. Often not even asked. But there to share our technology and know-how.

Most of us have heard Gordon Sinclair's piece "The Americans: A Canadian's Opinion". It first came out in the early 1970s but is no less true today. It is still available online and is worth a listen. It is probably not terribly popular in some circles where "hate America first" is popular among the self-appointed intellectuals, but there is nothing so affirmative of the American spirit as Mr. Sinclair's recitation. No matter how many times I've heard it, I always feel a deep pride that I am a citizen of a nation--probably the ONLY nation--that will stand up and help, with nothing asked in return.

So--help. As an American taxpayer I feel that there are few better ways to spend my nickel.

[retiredguy123]

I can think of a whole lot more awful ways for a nuclear sub to spend its time than on a mission of mercy.
I'm not against the mission at all. But, U.S. taxpayers should not pay for it, especially since this is not a U.S. vessel and none of the passengers are Americans. Our country is broke.

[Two Bills]

Interesting live report from BBC.
Section about previous safety concerns could be relevant if sub is ever found.

Titanic sub live updates: Noise gives target for Titan search, says Coast Guard - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464/page/2)

[PugMom]

even is the vessel was located, how will they retrieve it if it is in fact, 'stuck.'? news says many subs can't even dive to the wreck due to the depths

[tophcfa]

even is the vessel was located, how will they retrieve it if it is in fact, 'stuck.'? news says many subs can't even dive to the wreck due to the depths

Just heard that a banging sound was picked up on sonar, so presumably they are still alive. Their air is projected to run out at 6:00 AM tomorrow. A deep diving vessel is in transit to attempt a rescue mission but the success is very problematic. Fingers crossed.

[Taltarzac725]

Just heard that a banging sound was picked up on sonar, so presumably they are still alive. Their air is projected to run out at 6:00 AM tomorrow. A deep diving vessel is in transit to attempt a rescue mission but the success is very problematic. Fingers crossed.

//////

[Bjeanj]

Fortune Magazine reported that “David Lochridge—who began working as OceanGate’s director of marine operations in 2015—alleged that he was sacked after pointing out to the company that the submersible had not been built or tested to suitable safety standards, potentially putting passengers “milliseconds from implosion.”

OceanGate director said fired for noting safety flaws | Fortune (https://fortune.com/2023/06/21/titan-titanic-missing-sub-david-lochridge-safety-concerns-sacked-oceangate-stockton-rush-hamish-harding/)

https://l.smartnews.com/p-9Nk8f/RxttiB

I don’t know if there are laws that ensure these type of vessels are built for safety, but it sounds like this company may have bypassed some critical testing.

[Caymus]

even is the vessel was located, how will they retrieve it if it is in fact, 'stuck.'? news says many subs can't even dive to the wreck due to the depths

The Navy has a system they call FADOSS (Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System). Imagine a large version of an Arcade Claw Machine.

[retiredguy123]

The Navy has a system they call FADOSS (Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System). Imagine a large version of an Arcade Claw Machine.
Those Arcade claws never grab anything.

[Caymus]

Those Arcade claws never grab anything.

I remember winning a pack of "nudie" playing cards many decades ago:angel::angel::angel:

[Keefelane66]

I'm not against the mission at all. But, U.S. taxpayers should not pay for it, especially since this is not a U.S. vessel and none of the passengers are Americans. Our country is broke.
OceanGate Expeditions, based in Everett, Washington, was founded in 2009 by aerospace engineer Stockton Rush, who is also aboard the submersible, according to a source with knowledge of the mission plan.
Base of operation is Newfoundland 400 miles from wreck site, Cape Cod is 900 miles from site.

[Keefelane66]

I'm not against the mission at all. But, U.S. taxpayers should not pay for it, especially since this is not a U.S. vessel and none of the passengers are Americans. Our country is broke.
OceanGate Expeditions, based in Everett, Washington, was founded in 2009 by aerospace engineer Stockton Rush, who is also aboard the submersible, according to a source with knowledge of the mission plan.2

[PugMom]

The Navy has a system they call FADOSS (Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System). Imagine a large version of an Arcade Claw Machine.

that's a relief, i cannot imagine a worse way to go. God be with them .

[Taltarzac725]

Titanic artifacts go on display in Florida - Deseret News (https://www.deseret.com/1997/11/14/19345525/titanic-artifacts-go-on-display-in-florida)

I remember going down to St Pete from Palm Harbor to see this Titanic Exhibition in 1997. Went with my brother, sister-in-law, and parents.

It was quite fascinating. Think I saw the movie Titanic maybe 4 times in the movie theater. Titanic (1997 film - Wikipedia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film))

[JoMar]

I agree. But, our country is spending millions on this project, and now they are sending a nuclear sub to the area, which will cost even more millions. I'll bet you a dollar that we will not ask Canada or the submarine owner to reimburse us for anything. And, they won't provide the U.S. taxpayers any accounting on how much of their money they spent. We are suckers.

Our budget for this year is what, $1.4 Trillion? A couple hundred million is pennies in that budget plus they don't add the cost, they transfer the money. Also, both Canada and France have assets helping in the search and the US Coast Guard turned down help from the UK. I assume your alternative would be to do nothing until all the financials are accounted for and disclosed?

[retiredguy123]

Our budget for this year is what, $1.4 Trillion? A couple hundred million is pennies in that budget plus they don't add the cost, they transfer the money. Also, both Canada and France have assets helping in the search and the US Coast Guard turned down help from the UK. I assume your alternative would be to do nothing until all the financials are accounted for and disclosed?
"A couple hundred million is pennies". Of course, because our budget is way too high. I said I am not opposed to the mission, but we should expect the countries we are helping to reimburse us for our costs. It's easy to spend taxpayer money, when you don't need to actually write a check, and you can just raise the national debt.

[Rainger99]

Our budget for this year is what, $1.4 Trillion?

Your numbers are way off.

According to the CBO's projections, federal outlays total $6.2 trillion in 2023.

[Tvflguy]

Sorry to say it’s gone and probably a fast death. It probably imploded as it dove. Lost comms 1.5hours down then nothing.

It will probably never be found and remnants sunk to the deep dark death.

Sorry for the families. And owners of the co will have to answer. Apparently there were design and engineering issues.

[Taltarzac725]

Sad to say that it had probably become a recovery mission with a wake of lawyers coming.

Titanic sub search - live: Rescue robot reaches sea floor - as oxygen forecast to have run out | World News | Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748)

[Cybersprings]

Our budget for this year is what, $1.4 Trillion? A couple hundred million is pennies in that budget plus they don't add the cost, they transfer the money. Also, both Canada and France have assets helping in the search and the US Coast Guard turned down help from the UK. I assume your alternative would be to do nothing until all the financials are accounted for and disclosed?

This thought process is why we are in the mess we are in. "A couple hundred million is pennies".... how does this thought process even happen? Feel free to pay those pennies for us then. There are countless cases where significantly less money could save the lives of people here in the U.S. But we cannot and do not throw "pennies" at all those situations.

[Taltarzac725]

Missing Titanic tourist submarine live updates: Debris field found (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/missing-titanic-tourist-submarine-search-live-updates/70345468007/)

Sad development.

OceanGate submersible: US Coast Guard says 'debris field' discovered within search area for missing Titanic-bound vessel | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/22/us/submersible-titanic-oceangate-search-thursday/index.html)

[Caymus]

Missing Titanic tourist submarine live updates: Debris field found (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/missing-titanic-tourist-submarine-search-live-updates/70345468007/)

Sad development.

OceanGate submersible: US Coast Guard says 'debris field' discovered within search area for missing Titanic-bound vessel | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/22/us/submersible-titanic-oceangate-search-thursday/index.html)

I assume it didn't carry some form of a "Blackbox". It probably would have been destroyed anyway.

[PugMom]

this is not the result we hoped for,-- sad ending for sure. R.I.P.

[Number 10 GI]

At the depth of the Titanic the water pressure is 6,500 lbs per square inch. That is a tremendous amount of pressure.

[Taltarzac725]

At the depth of the Titanic the water pressure is 6,500 lbs per square inch. That is a tremendous amount of pressure.

Just think how much there would be at the deepest part of the ocean. And some people have been down there. Unsinkable Don Walsh (https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/unsinkable-don-walsh/)

[retiredguy123]

This was about 2.5 miles below the surface. But the deepest parts of ocean water are about 7 miles below the surface. That is a lot of water.

[Tvflguy]

I find it unconscionable that the media kept on, for two days, reporting the every-30-minutes of that bang sound. I said right from the start, every 30min???? If I was trapped somewhere I’d bang until my hands were bloody….

Made zero sense. And false hope. But the Media loves stories as this.,,,,

[Bay Kid]

I find it unconscionable that the media kept on, for two days, reporting the every-30-minutes of that bang sound. I said right from the start, every 30min???? If I was trapped somewhere I’d bang until my hands were bloody….

Made zero sense. And false hope. But the Media loves stories as this.,,,,

News talk about this tragedy while other things are kept under the table. It was a suicidal to get in that machine.

[threeonemiles@outlook.com]

Submarine used to view Titanic wreckage went missing in the Atlantic. A search is underway | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/19/europe/titanic-shipwreck-vessel-missing-intl/index.html)

I hope they get back to the surface. I do wonder how they can search at almost two and a half miles down. Submarine on expedition to Titanic wreck goes missing, "search and rescue operation" underway - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-missing-rescue-mission-underway-newfoundland-canada/)
Sadly, they found the sub which imploded killing everyone on board. I pray for these five souls and that their families are dealing with this tragedy.
It was found about a quarter mile from the Titanic according to news reports, yet they searched in an area the twice the size of the state of Connecticut. That, I cannot understand.
This was a tragedy that could have been avoided had safety rules been put in place. Using a video game console to steer the vessel and no safety protocol in place was, in my opinion ill-advised.

[Blueblaze]

What makes me mad is that the Navy knew it was gone the instant it happened, from their own classified super-sonar -- and yet used it as an excuse to blow a million bucks on a fake "Search and Rescue", anyway.

Even that so-called "tourism" bunch knew from the git-go it was lost. You'll notice they didn't bother to relocate one of their other two subs to look for this one, and they were the only outfit that had one close enough to do any good.

What must everything we are told these days be a lie?

[retiredguy123]

What makes me mad is that the Navy knew it was gone the instant it happened, from their own classified super-sonar -- and yet used it as an excuse to blow a million bucks on a fake "Search and Rescue", anyway.

Even that so-called "tourism" bunch knew from the git-go it was lost. You'll notice they didn't bother to relocate one of their other two subs to look for this one, and they were the only outfit that had one close enough to do any good.

What must everything we are told these days be a lie?
I agree with everything you said except the million bucks. They spent way more than that, and they will probably never provide an accurate accounting of the cost.

[Number 10 GI]

As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow morning, had the authorities in charge said we are going to change from from a search and rescue effort to a search and recovery action, the internet would have been alive with people saying they were too cheap to save those poor men. They would claim the explosion the Navy reported could have been a flatulent whale.

[retiredguy123]

As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow morning, had the authorities in charge said we are going to change from from a search and rescue effort to a search and recovery action, the internet would have been alive with people saying they were too cheap to save those poor men. They would claim the explosion the Navy reported could have been a flatulent whale.
Maybe, but so what? The Government's job is to spend taxpayer money wisely and to not waste it.

[xcaligirl]

Question: Who will pay for the U.S. Coast Guard search and rescue mission of a non-US vessel that charges weathly tourists $250K each to visit the Titanic?

Answer: U.S. taxpayers
Eactly what I said to my husband at the beginning of the search

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The founder of the Oceangate is a bit of a renegade, not listening to experts and just another arrogant showman . . . Stockton Rush


fastcompany.com (https://www.fastcompany.com/40406673/the-man-who-wants-to-send-us-to-the-bottom-of-the-ocean)

Missing Titanic sub: experts raised safety concerns about OceanGate Titan in 2018 | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/missing-titanic-sub-experts-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangate-titan-2018-2023-06-21/)

North Vancouver experts warned about experimental sub danger - North Shore News (https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/north-van-experts-warned-oceangate-founder-about-dangers-of-experimental-submersible-7190793)

Submersible Expert Raised Safety Concerns After 2019 Trip on Titan Sub - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/titan-safety-warnings-titanic.html)
"During a trip on board the Titan off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, Karl Stanley, an expert in submersibles, knew immediately that something was off: He heard a cracking noise that got only louder over the two hours it took for the submersible to plunge more than 12,000 feet."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/missing-sub-boss-oceangate-ceo-stockton-rush-was-sued-for-fraud-in-florida-by-marc-and-sharon-hagle


sorry, after reading many public articles of his disregard for safety, there is no surprise that there were no plans for rescue in case anything went wrong. .

[Taltarzac725]

It will probably take a long time but the lawyers should make a lot of money on all this. I expect the litigation will involve numerous countries and a lot of very technical evidence.


The founder of the Oceangate is a bit of a renegade, not listening to experts and just another arrogant showman . . . Stockton Rush


fastcompany.com (https://www.fastcompany.com/40406673/the-man-who-wants-to-send-us-to-the-bottom-of-the-ocean)

Missing Titanic sub: experts raised safety concerns about OceanGate Titan in 2018 | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/missing-titanic-sub-experts-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangate-titan-2018-2023-06-21/)

North Vancouver experts warned about experimental sub danger - North Shore News (https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/north-van-experts-warned-oceangate-founder-about-dangers-of-experimental-submersible-7190793)

Submersible Expert Raised Safety Concerns After 2019 Trip on Titan Sub - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/titan-safety-warnings-titanic.html)
"During a trip on board the Titan off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, Karl Stanley, an expert in submersibles, knew immediately that something was off: He heard a cracking noise that got only louder over the two hours it took for the submersible to plunge more than 12,000 feet."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/missing-sub-boss-oceangate-ceo-stockton-rush-was-sued-for-fraud-in-florida-by-marc-and-sharon-hagle


sorry, after reading many public articles of his disregard for safety, there is no surprise that there were no plans for rescue in case anything went wrong. .

[Bay Kid]

Maybe, but so what? The Government's job is to spend taxpayer money wisely and to not waste it.

Hahaha that is funny.

[JoMar]

Your numbers are way off.

According to the CBO's projections, federal outlays total $6.2 trillion in 2023.

CBO's projection for budget deficit is $1.4 Trillion in 2023. Your outlay ($6.2T) is correct but is offset by revenues of $4.8T

[JoMar]

This thought process is why we are in the mess we are in. "A couple hundred million is pennies".... how does this thought process even happen? Feel free to pay those pennies for us then. There are countless cases where significantly less money could save the lives of people here in the U.S. But we cannot and do not throw "pennies" at all those situations.

In the scheme of things (the budget) it is pennies. As stated, it's also not additional costs.....all part of the approved budget. That's how the thought process happens, in government and business.

And my question still remains.....what is the alternative or the solution?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

What caused the Titan to implode? Right now, it'''s not even clear who will lead the investigation | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/missing-titanic-submersible-updates-93a59c3c1d48aee2feef46caca418fd1)

The US Coast Guard may have jurisdiction for the investigation, and doesn't request reimbursement.
However, the blame part of the aftermath will take years, be confusing, and may not amount to anything as the question of jurisdiction and sea worthy safety regulations is also murky with multiple international entities.

Since he was more Musk than Cousteau, and as a former licensed and professional oil tanker captain with safety of cargo and crew the first priority, there are many more interesting topics to follow since this topic has devolved into the legal proceedings of a former hack.

[Tvflguy]

Maybe, but so what? The Government's job is to spend taxpayer money wisely and to not waste it.

When does that actually start??? Been waiting for years. It’s totally out of control.

We are partly at fault. We want “our stuff” and do not want to give in. But truly it’s on them all in D.C. Just look at the math. It’s scary.

Our poor kids…