Labor shortages still remain. .

[CoachKandSportsguy]

"Dealers and independent #mechanics describe a frustrating situation: #Demand is booming, but many shops are missing out on business because they lack the staff to keep up."

Why It’s Impossible to Get Your Car Repaired This Summer - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-repair-shortage-service-e1e06b0f)

Nursing request for my mom resulted in a week's delay due to labor shortage at the home health nursing service provider this week. .

[JGibson]

Why link to a paywall?

[billethkid]

Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________

:censored:

[Keefelane66]

We are still in “The Great Job Migration” depending on area. Electric Boat (Submarine manufacture) hired 1000+ after background and drug screening. My granddaughter fiancé left a local dealership as mechanic, reason doubled his pay and better benefits 5 day workweek.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

"Dealers and independent #mechanics describe a frustrating situation: #Demand is booming, but many shops are missing out on business because they lack the staff to keep up."

Why It’s Impossible to Get Your Car Repaired This Summer - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-repair-shortage-service-e1e06b0f)

Nursing request for my mom resulted in a week's delay due to labor shortage at the home health nursing service provider this week. .

Welcome to the new America. Most home health aides are immigrants. Most Americans don't want the job. Some immigrants are afraid to work now, even if they are legally here, because of the constant harassment just because they have darker skin, or an accent. Entitled folks say "just show your ID and you'll be fine." How many times have those entitled folks been ordered to show their ID?

[MrFlorida]

Nobody wants to work with their hands anymore, why ? They can go to college and not have to pay for it.....You will !!!

[Keefelane66]

Nobody wants to work with their hands anymore, why ? They can go to college and not have to pay for it.....You will !!!
Obviously you live in a NEWS dark hole. Supreme Court ruled the Administrations debt forgiveness of $10,000 to $20,000 is not constitutional, so where do you get your information?

[njbchbum]

Obviously you live in a NEWS dark hole. Supreme Court ruled the Administrations debt forgiveness of $10,000 to $20,000 is not constitutional, so where do you get your information?

Well - what hole have you been in - check out the Plan B bail-out plan from this administration:

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces New Actions to Provide Debt Relief and Support for Student Loan Borrowers | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-provide-debt-relief-and-support-for-student-loan-borrowers/)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-plan-b-on-student-loan-forgiveness-uses-higher-education-act-what-to-know/ar-AA1dtsRd

[Stu from NYC]

We live longer raise the retirement age.

[Keefelane66]

Well - what hole have you been in - check out the Plan B bail-out plan from this administration:

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces New Actions to Provide Debt Relief and Support for Student Loan Borrowers | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-provide-debt-relief-and-support-for-student-loan-borrowers/)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-plan-b-on-student-loan-forgiveness-uses-higher-education-act-what-to-know/ar-AA1dtsRd
It started similar on original proposal but was stopped by the courts I expect this will go nowhere. The Supreme Court decision advised it must go thru Congressional legislation to be approved, successfully passing Congress is 0.
I want everyone to have free ice cream what’s the chance of that?

[njbchbum]

When folks want to tell you that the economy is back and booming and the unemployment rate is so low - ask them what the Labor Participation Rate is! labor participation rate 2023 at DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=labor+participation+rate+2023&va=b&t=hc&ia=web) We are only just back to the pre-pandemic level of participation!

And just for the fun of it, compare the recovery to the rest of the working world Labor Force Participation Rate - Countries - List (https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/labor-force-participation-rate)

[vintageogauge]

What is wrong with showing an ID? I have to show mine at the doctors office, hospitals, banks, everywhere in The Villages such as pools, rec center club affairs, dog parks, and many other places that I can't remember at the moment.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What is wrong with showing an ID? I have to show mine at the doctors office, hospitals, banks, everywhere in The Villages such as pools, rec center club affairs, dog parks, and many other places that I can't remember at the moment.

When you go to a restaurant, do you demand to see the ID of the white waitress who doesn't have a foreign accent? No? Why not?

When you walk into a bank - not even gotten as far as the line for the tellers - does a manager walk up to you and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

When you are driving through a neighborhood and stop at a stop sign, does someone rush out of their house and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

Answer: because your skin isn't brown.

The people who are HARASSED with this kind of behavior - are not white Americans. Yes everyone gets their ID checked. But not everyone is harassed for it by random strangers whose jobs don't involve checking IDs.

And yes - every example I just posted in this post has happened to people with brown skin, and similar incidents happen to them all the time. They are targeted and harassed because of their skin color. Puerto Ricans are told "you don't belong here, go back to your own country." Because a) all brown people look alike so obviously these must be illegal aliens, or b) some people skipped the history class where they were taught that Puerto Ricans ARE American citizens and DO belong here. Or possibly both.

There are people who think that if someone has brown skin and works as a home aid, then obviously they're illegal Haitians. And deserve to be harassed whenever they're seen wearing their uniform or scrub shirt outside their client's home.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Unless you're white. Then it doesn't happen.

[Whitley]

Welcome to the new America. Most home health nurses are immigrants. Most Americans don't want the job. Some immigrants are afraid to work now, even if they are legally here, because of the constant harassment just because they have darker skin, or an accent. Entitled folks say "just show your ID and you'll be fine." How many times have those entitled folks been ordered to show their ID?

Constant Harassment? Really. I have employed over 100 people for forty years. Many, like me, are beautiful and bronze poc. Where do you hear we are constantly harassed. I love this country, this state and the vast, vast percentage of great people that are fellow citizens. Sidenote, thinking "we" are unable or not sharp enough to obtain ID is insulting. BTW when do you think we are asked to show ID?

[Whitley]

Nobody wants to work with their hands anymore, why ? They can go to college and not have to pay for it.....You will !!!

I would generally agree with you, however seeing how we spend money I would not object seeing young folks get some. The gov't screwed up college and tuition with guarantees anyway. My college in the 80's was 7900 a year. Today, one generation later, 57,000.00 per year.

[Toymeister]

Mechanics are a special case. Recall that mechanics are the subject of this thread.

Mechanics, the good ones, want to be paid based upon the 'book' labor rates as they can beat the average times, making an effective higher hourly wage. Indeed dealers charge based upon these rates. However, they pay mechanics a simple hourly wage while expecting production that beats the book time.

Couple this with the higher skill requirements for mechanics and tens of thousands of dollars required for tools and you demotivate anyone from being a mechanic.

[Whitley]

We live longer raise the retirement age.

I did it all right. Paid for college, bought a house, had three life insurance policies and two retirement funds in addition to another life policy with guaranteed 5k monthly income. At 35 I was diagnosed with stage 3 c. After massive chemo and multiple surgeries it was still there. My wife got me in an experimental group. five months of chemo five days a week 6-7 hours a day in two chest ports. Unknown to me, insurance would not pay as it was not a customary treatment or some such wording. My wife cashed it all in to pay. Experimental treatment that we paid for oop. I beat it mostly perhaps because I could no longer afford to die. We never really know what someone else is dealing with. I forgot why I started this diatribe. It looks like I will work my entire life, and I'm ok with that. I have a place in America's friendliest hometown, another in SRQ and rent one in Naples (The last two for work). I live in paradise and deal with mostly very happy people. I'm good.

[Whitley]

When you go to a restaurant, do you demand to see the ID of the white waitress who doesn't have a foreign accent? No? Why not?

When you walk into a bank - not even gotten as far as the line for the tellers - does a manager walk up to you and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

When you are driving through a neighborhood and stop at a stop sign, does someone rush out of their house and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

Answer: because your skin isn't brown.

The people who are HARASSED with this kind of behavior - are not white Americans. Yes everyone gets their ID checked. But not everyone is harassed for it by random strangers whose jobs don't involve checking IDs.

And yes - every example I just posted in this post has happened to people with brown skin, and similar incidents happen to them all the time. They are targeted and harassed because of their skin color. Puerto Ricans are told "you don't belong here, go back to your own country." Because a) all brown people look alike so obviously these must be illegal aliens, or b) some people skipped the history class where they were taught that Puerto Ricans ARE American citizens and DO belong here. Or possibly both.

There are people who think that if someone has brown skin and works as a home aid, then obviously they're illegal Haitians. And deserve to be harassed whenever they're seen wearing their uniform or scrub shirt outside their client's home.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Unless you're white. Then it doesn't happen.

Where do you live? This happened to me three times in all of my years. Two by police and one store owner in Puerto Rico when I was on vacation at Cerromar. Do you know many poc?

[Stu from NYC]

I did it all right. Paid for college, bought a house, had three life insurance policies and two retirement funds in addition to another life policy with guaranteed 5k monthly income. At 35 I was diagnosed with stage 3 c. After massive chemo and multiple surgeries it was still there. My wife got me in an experimental group. five months of chemo five days a week 6-7 hours a day in two chest ports. Unknown to me, insurance would not pay as it was not a customary treatment or some such wording. My wife cashed it all in to pay. Experimental treatment that we paid for oop. I beat it mostly perhaps because I could no longer afford to die. We never really know what someone else is dealing with. I forgot why I started this diatribe. It looks like I will work my entire life, and I'm ok with that. I have a place in America's friendliest hometown, another in SRQ and rent one in Naples (The last two for work). I live in paradise and deal with mostly very happy people. I'm good.

Glad to hear you beat cancer and hope you are around for many more years

[CoachKandSportsguy]

We live longer raise the retirement age.

wrong answer. .

the funding for social security needs to change:
the current limits on salary are too low, way too low,
not the percentage, the salary top out. .

and since the larger the salary, the less the payment will affect the lifestyle. .

working longer keeps the young people from advancing and takes away jobs from the people who will buy your house when you retire and relocate to TV

[Stu from NYC]

wrong answer. .

the funding for social security needs to change:
the current limits on salary are too low, way too low,
not the percentage, the salary top out. .

and since the larger the salary, the less the payment will affect the lifestyle. .

working longer keeps the young people from advancing and takes away jobs from the people who will buy your house when you retire and relocate to TV

So you want to make it more of a transfer the wealth system? There is a better word for that but right now do not remember it.

There should be a reasonable relationship between what you put in and what you get out of it.

[P A Paul]

The building boom of apartments has waiting list for occupancy, new house galore in non-Village subdivisions. Where are all of those people working?

[melpetezrinski]

Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________

:censored:


I like how you prefaced your opinion on "potential workforce". It gives you an out when someone says, have you seen the HISTORICALLY LOW unemployment rate.

[Janie123]

I did it all right. Paid for college, bought a house, had three life insurance policies and two retirement funds in addition to another life policy with guaranteed 5k monthly income. At 35 I was diagnosed with stage 3 c. After massive chemo and multiple surgeries it was still there. My wife got me in an experimental group. five months of chemo five days a week 6-7 hours a day in two chest ports. Unknown to me, insurance would not pay as it was not a customary treatment or some such wording. My wife cashed it all in to pay. Experimental treatment that we paid for oop. I beat it mostly perhaps because I could no longer afford to die. We never really know what someone else is dealing with. I forgot why I started this diatribe. It looks like I will work my entire life, and I'm ok with that. I have a place in America's friendliest hometown, another in SRQ and rent one in Naples (The last two for work). I live in paradise and deal with mostly very happy people. I'm good.
Congratulations on beating cancer. My wife is similar, pancreatic cancer diagnosis in 2020. We both worked our butts off for 40 years and saved in 401k and IRAs and a rental home in CO. We purchased a 2nd home in TV in 2019 and decided to move to that house for cancer treatment in JAX at the Mayo. 1 year later, she is cancer free so we sold both homes in CO and moved here permanently.

As a parallel note, our retirement savings in the past 8 years doubled twice. At the time we were both 62 with at least a handful of years left to work. We decided at that time life is too short, we won’t outlive our savings so we hit the retirement road in 2022.

I also know of lots of 2nd wage earners in a family in their 50s and 60s who lost their jobs during COVID just decided like us, no reason to keep working. They had enough money. We have friends here in TV that are late 50s who retired from also good high paying white collar jobs. The company I retired from went public during COVID and approximately 2 years later, 10% of their workforce of 3000, mostly senior and executive employees, have also retired.

[Bay Kid]

Hard to compete with free money, food, healthcare, housing. Not enough drive to want to get better. Why work?

[bruce213]

It's not that people don't want to work, they just want easier jobs. It's always been that way. In the right area you can make a living as a dog walker. People make $ off of YouTube, and a lot of stay at home computer jobs. Why bust your butt as a waitress or a mechanic if you can find a better job.

[Villages Kahuna]

Our current labor shortage was predicted by economists and statisticians beginning a couple decades ago when the U.S. birth rate dipped below 2 per woman. Those who study these things repeatedly warned that severe labor shortages would be the result. Our current birthdate remains at 1.64 children born per woman.

The actual shortages have been offset somewhat by improved technology. But the only solution to the problem for the next twenty years, or until our birth rate increases back to 2 or more, is to import the workers we need internationally—something our politicians oppose.

Any program to import labor requires quite a bit of study—what skills do we need, where in the country do we need them, and how will we go about fulfilling those needs? These are things that appear well beyond our government’s desire or ability to accomplish. So in the many years ahead, get used to even worse labor shortages, inflated costs, and supply chain interruptions.

[mntlblok]

I would generally agree with you, however seeing how we spend money I would not object seeing young folks get some. The gov't screwed up college and tuition with guarantees anyway. My college in the 80's was 7900 a year. Today, one generation later, 57,000.00 per year.

Know a young man (very well) who elected to live at home (received outstanding advice) and attend our local "no-name", cheap college, worked after school - until working in the chem lab at that same school, and then earned enough from similar work during his Ph.D. time to cover expenses and to get his degrees with zero student debt. Wasn't charged room and board for living at home. Probably had some help with his cheap transportation. He suffered terribly by not getting to have the proper "college experience". :-)

[Innserelli]

Welcome to the new America. Most home health nurses are immigrants. Most Americans don't want the job. Some immigrants are afraid to work now, even if they are legally here, because of the constant harassment just because they have darker skin, or an accent. Entitled folks say "just show your ID and you'll be fine." How many times have those entitled folks been ordered to show their ID?

This lack of willingness to take certain jobs is definitely a problem, however it should not result is abandoning our citizenship. How many times do you need to show an ID in any European county when traveling? If we were actually looking to work in a foreign country it would mean carrying and showing an ID frequently. You my not even be allowed to work since many countries protect their workforce by limiting immigrant workers. For many years, Switzerland has brought in great numbers of Italians to work the tourist season, and at the end of the season promptly booted them out. My kids have lived in England for 10 years, raised their family there, and I know that it is extremely difficult to get permanent residency in England and virtually impossible to get citizenship. The point is that citizenship is important everywhere but the US. We allow non citizens to live, work, and vote and those who come here legally are essentially punished by having to go through a actual process to finally achieve citizenship. I was taught that our citizenship was something to be valued, as it is in almost every country but ours. Sadly, we are throwing away one of the most precious gifts we have ben given.

[Vermilion Villager]

Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________

:censored:
It would be interesting to see you offer ANY proof of what you just said!!
In Florida unemployment is roughly $250 a week. That translates to $1000 a month. Can you live on $1000 a month in Florida?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So you want to make it more of a transfer the wealth system? There is a better word for that but right now do not remember it.

There should be a reasonable relationship between what you put in and what you get out of it.

There are two problems:

1) productivity increases replacing low level jobs means that the contributions must come from higher income positions. The issue is LOTS of low level contributing positions lost versus 2 ->10x the management pay structure which is wittled down more slowly, leaving 2-10x salaried mgmt with a cap of 25% of salary or less of salary contributions

2) Management salaries are going up faster than labor. At one global company at which I previously worked, VPs and global staff got inflation increases (merit increases) 2x the worker bees, middle mgmt and below. . I was/am still ****ed with the Jack Welsh wannabe CEO

3) sr mgmt gets added incentives and bonuses which the masses don't. That's fine, but if you are going to bankrupt the workers social security because sr management marginally contributes with huge salary differentials, and who makes the decisions to replace workers with automation. .

then they can contribute at our rates, or they are just sucking the entire system dry and it will collapse due to greed and inequality. . see NY City where Deblasio and his grifter wife can't account for $850m of the public's money

[Stu from NYC]

There are two problems:

1) productivity increases replacing low level jobs means that the contributions must come from higher income positions. The issue is LOTS of low level contributing positions lost versus 10x the management structure, which is wittled down more slowly, leaving 10x salaried mgmt with a cap of 25% of salary or less.

2) Management salaries are going up higher than labor. At one global company at which I previously worked, VPS and global staff got inflation increases (merit increases) 2x the worker bees, middle mgmt and below. . where I worked. .

3) sr mgmt gets added incentives and bonuses which the masses don't. That's fine, but if you are going to bankrupt the workers social security because sr management marginally contributes, and who makes the decisions to replace workers with automation. .

then they can contribute at our rates

Top management I believe is a very small percentage of the workforce. Once upon a time I stopped paying SS after 11 months or so.

The problem is lots of people under the level of senior management would be paying more into the system and getting nothing more back.

Either way the system needs to be fixed to keep it solvent.

[forebubba]

Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________

:censored:

Really? How do they do that so I can stay home too

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Where do you live? This happened to me three times in all of my years. Two by police and one store owner in Puerto Rico when I was on vacation at Cerromar. Do you know many poc?

I grew up in a diverse town, which was a suburb of a diverse city, which is in a diverse state. My neighborhood was mostly white, but the school I attended was a mix of everything. In my high school courtyard we had clusters of everything, and we all mostly got along. But we saw the bigotry every day. A guy I dated (who is black) was arrested after a white guy mouthed off to him - and he defended himself (verbally), and the white guy punched him. The white guy was arrested and released. My friend was arrested and detained overnight. Even though my friend was the victim and never laid a hand on the white guy.

A supervisor at a store I worked with was a States-born Puerto Rican. A few times when someone wanted to talk to the manager about something, she'd come over - and they would say "no the OTHER manager" or "you're not a supervisor" or some other equally insulting verbiage. It didn't happen often but it did happen.

I used to live in the Boston area, and hung out with "street people" - some homeless, some squatting in tenements and abandoned buildings, it was a whole sub-culture of folks. Huge variety of "types" of people. The brown-skinned ones got the worst of the insults. They all got their share of it, but the brown-skinned ones had it the worst. I got insulted on occasion too even though I wasn't homeless, earned more money than most college students earned, paid rent on Beacon Hill, and was trust-fund baby.

[coconutmama]

wrong answer. .

the funding for social security needs to change:
the current limits on salary are too low, way too low,
not the percentage, the salary top out. .

and since the larger the salary, the less the payment will affect the lifestyle. .

working longer keeps the young people from advancing and takes away jobs from the people who will buy your house when you retire and relocate to TV

You are 100% correct.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

wrong answer. .

the funding for social security needs to change:
the current limits on salary are too low, way too low,
not the percentage, the salary top out. .

and since the larger the salary, the less the payment will affect the lifestyle. .

working longer keeps the young people from advancing and takes away jobs from the people who will buy your house when you retire and relocate to TV

100% agree. It's insane that you only have to contribute social security on the first $160,200 in the year.

I'd be in favor of raising the maximum monthly benefit to accommodate people earning between $160,201 and $250,000 - AND raising the max cap on deductions to $400,000 per person per year.

$160,200 doesn't really go very far, if you have a couple of kids and live in a "reasonably" decent neighborhood of the burbs in many states. So sure - let folks who are earning more, get more when it's retirement time. But make sure even more than that are paying a full share in.

I think the max monthly payout is $4,555. That's a huge heap of money for most people. But for folks who are in the higher (not highest) income levels, it might not even cover yearly expenses including property tax, HOAs, long-term insurance premiums, all those other things that really wealthy people (or people who were fortunate to be able to invest early and often) don't need social security to rely on.

I'd kick the max monthly up to $6000, reserve that for people who averaged $250,000/year or higher for 18 years (or whatever the criteria is for that), and require the same deductions for paychecks totaling up to $400k/year.

It'll mean an extra $100/month out of the salary of someone earning $400k/year. To compare - someone finding a dollar on the sidewalk, will only be able to buy 99.99 cents worth of stuff with it.

[Inexes@aol.com]

Welcome to the new America. ]Most home health nurses are immigrants.[/FONT] Most Americans don't want the job. Some immigrants are afraid to work now, even if they are legally here, because of the constant harassment just because they have darker skin, or an accent. Entitled folks say "just show your ID and you'll be fine." How many times have those entitled folks been ordered to show their ID?

I have no idea where you get your information but as a Home Health Nurse, for 40+ years in Florida, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. 20 years in St Pete, 20 years here in The Villages. Employed by 5 of the major HH Agencies in the state.
At not one of those agencies was the majority of employees anything but white American born males & females....... And those who were not white American born were treated no differently than those of us who were white. The only exception I will make, and it didn't matter if we were white or "other", most did not want to work in TV because most often we were treated as less than equal. I never encountered the discrimination anywhere in HHC as I did here in TV. If I decided to let them know that I was a resident, ie, "one of them", then the "attitude" adjusted.

[justjim]

The labor shortage was projected by labor analysts in the 90’s. I know because I worked in education and job training several moons ago. We always had those people who were disabled and couldn’t work and those who found staying home for others reasons more profitable than working for minimum wages and paying for child care. That said, there is definitely more demand for labor than supply today. It’s not just lower skilled jobs either. Teachers, nurses, electricians, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, equipment operators, construction workers, computer engineers, and truck drivers just to name a few occupational shortages. Maybe it’s time to face some of these challenges instead of fighting “culture wars” that we seemed to be marred in. It’s simply called doing what’s right for the better good and the future of our children and grandchildren.

[tophcfa]

all those other things that wealthy people (or people who were fortunate to be able to invest early and often)

Don’t confuse making sacrifices and working very hard with being fortunate. There were lots of things I would have rather done from my 20’s through my mid 50’s rather than studying hard for 6 years after high school then having to put on a suit and tie every friggin day and commute 100 miles round trip to work in a high stress cut throat industry. I lost 35 of the healthiest years of my life where I would have much rather been doing lots of other things. I have friends who used to call me at work from ski areas after a major powder storm or from a golf course on a beautiful summer day just to bust my balls and tell me they wouldn’t change places with me for all the money in the world. Now they are jealous of me and complain they can’t afford to have a home in the Villages. I have to remind them of the reason why and explain that I am now reaping the benefits of sacrifices they choose not to make.

[Bill14564]

100% agree. It's insane that you only have to contribute social security on the first $160,200 in the year.

I'd be in favor of raising the maximum monthly benefit to accommodate people earning between $160,201 and $250,000 - AND raising the max cap on deductions to $400,000 per person per year.

$160,200 doesn't really go very far, if you have a couple of kids and live in a "reasonably" decent neighborhood of the burbs in many states. So sure - let folks who are earning more, get more when it's retirement time. But make sure even more than that are paying a full share in.

I think the max monthly payout is $4,555. That's a huge heap of money for most people. But for folks who are in the higher (not highest) income levels, it might not even cover yearly expenses including property tax, HOAs, long-term insurance premiums, all those other things that really wealthy people (or people who were fortunate to be able to invest early and often) don't need social security to rely on.

I'd kick the max monthly up to $6000, reserve that for people who averaged $250,000/year or higher for 18 years (or whatever the criteria is for that), and require the same deductions for paychecks totaling up to $400k/year.

It'll mean an extra $100/month out of the salary of someone earning $400k/year. To compare - someone finding a dollar on the sidewalk, will only be able to buy 99.99 cents worth of stuff with it.

You probably need to do more research and math on your proposal.

You want to collect $100/month from those making $400,000 but then increase their benefits by $1,500/month while they are retired. Since most of us won't be working 15 times as long as we are retired, that is a losing proposition.

Oh, it looks like your $100/month is a bit off too. Since the employee's portion of FICA withholding is 6.2%, the additional withholding for someone making $400,000 would be $14,880/year or $1,240/month.

Okay, at $1,240 extra/month while working, the additional payment about balances out the $1,500 in benefits but at best this is a net zero since all his payments would come back to him in retirement with nothing left over for anyone else.

[Stu from NYC]

100% agree. It's insane that you only have to contribute social security on the first $160,200 in the year.

I'd be in favor of raising the maximum monthly benefit to accommodate people earning between $160,201 and $250,000 - AND raising the max cap on deductions to $400,000 per person per year.

$160,200 doesn't really go very far, if you have a couple of kids and live in a "reasonably" decent neighborhood of the burbs in many states. So sure - let folks who are earning more, get more when it's retirement time. But make sure even more than that are paying a full share in.

I think the max monthly payout is $4,555. That's a huge heap of money for most people. But for folks who are in the higher (not highest) income levels, it might not even cover yearly expenses including property tax, HOAs, long-term insurance premiums, all those other things that really wealthy people (or people who were fortunate to be able to invest early and often) don't need social security to rely on.

I'd kick the max monthly up to $6000, reserve that for people who averaged $250,000/year or higher for 18 years (or whatever the criteria is for that), and require the same deductions for paychecks totaling up to $400k/year.

It'll mean an extra $100/month out of the salary of someone earning $400k/year. To compare - someone finding a dollar on the sidewalk, will only be able to buy 99.99 cents worth of stuff with it.

How nice that some folks happy to spend other peoples money.

[Boomer]

America can’t get out of its own way these days. Too busy being had by those who want to pit us against each other for reasons that have nothing to do with what America needs to survive.

I am a big fan of Freakonomics and have been listening to a backlog of their podcasts…..

It occurred to me that they should do one connecting the dots between the labor shortage mess we are in and the doing away of the draft 50 years ago.

Oh my, do I dare say? Well, I do say……

Of course there would be the usual draft dodgers. (Doesn’t anybody who sweated that number and then served their country remember draft dodgers? Geez. Seems to be quite a bit of amnesia surrounding that one. (ahem))

And, of course, I am not advocating for a war machine….

BUT, there was more to the draft than just that……

Now America has way too much undirected testosterone running around. If all that testosterone were to be channeled again, young men would have time to grow up and could be directed to find interests and talent and skills that could earn them a good living later on in civilian life. Teach ‘em to build bridges, etc.

I could go on and on about reasons why I think a form of a draft could help America’s future tremendously, but I need to not bog down in another TOTV thread.

Just a thought…..but a damned good one, I think.

Boomer — who remembers when America used to grow men.

[Gigi3000]

[QUOTE=billethkid;2232835]Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________


Its multiple things. Burnout from the pandemic, nurses are tired of the overwork, teachers are sick of the administrators(being asked to do things without pay and not backing them), students(unruly) and parents( i read of one parent that asked the teacher to call her each morning cause she kept sleeping through her alarm), then there's the psychotic bosses, employers' doing sneaky things to paychecks.....its _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ( you know what) run amuck, no concern for the person..imo.
Some employers just throw you out to do a job that needs training, its sink or swim and you may have quit a job to take this job!! People aren't lazy, they're sick of the stress. Then when you get older, you're disposable. Can you imagine working your whole life for one employer then worrying about that? I'm tired of ya'll saying people are lazy!

[Pballer]

Too much of the potential workforce of today just are not interested in working to be paid.

Far too many make out as well or better by not going to work.
Too many programs offering far much money for doing nothing in return.

I have heard it too many times.....why should I go to work when I can make as much staying home.

Progress will not be made in employees availability until we as a society get back to NEEDING A JOB to survive!!

_________________________________________________

:censored:

Please list these programs. Is it the gravy train of Florida maximum unemployment benefits of $275/week for 9-12 weeks, or the incredibly generous Florida welfare and SNAP payments? These people must be living high on the hog.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have no idea where you get your information but as a Home Health Nurse, for 40+ years in Florida, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. 20 years in St Pete, 20 years here in The Villages. Employed by 5 of the major HH Agencies in the state.
At not one of those agencies was the majority of employees anything but white American born males & females....... And those who were not white American born were treated no differently than those of us who were white. The only exception I will make, and it didn't matter if we were white or "other", most did not want to work in TV because most often we were treated as less than equal. I never encountered the discrimination anywhere in HHC as I did here in TV. If I decided to let them know that I was a resident, ie, "one of them", then the "attitude" adjusted.

I mis-wrote, and corrected my post. I should have said home health aides, not home health nurses. I apologize for that.

There's been a few neighbors who've had home health aides - none of them were white, or male. The ones I've spoken to were either Haitian or Jamaican, except for one from Barbados.

My mom has gone through over a dozen of them - she has to have 24/7 care at home. Not a single one of them was white. She has three currently - one every night, one weekdays, and one for the weekend days. Two are from Haiti. One is Jamaican.

On the east coast of southern Florida, it's mostly Haitians and Jamaicans who care for folks who needs 24/7 care at home. I have no idea why that is so, but - it's so.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You probably need to do more research and math on your proposal.

You want to collect $100/month from those making $400,000 but then increase their benefits by $1,500/month while they are retired. Since most of us won't be working 15 times as long as we are retired, that is a losing proposition.

Oh, it looks like your $100/month is a bit off too. Since the employee's portion of FICA withholding is 6.2%, the additional withholding for someone making $400,000 would be $14,880/year or $1,240/month.

Okay, at $1,240 extra/month while working, the additional payment about balances out the $1,500 in benefits but at best this is a net zero since all his payments would come back to him in retirement with nothing left over for anyone else.

No that would be $100 MORE per month than they're already paying. Not $100/month total. That's why I said $100 more. More = in addition to. It sounds like you're really working hard to cherry-pick and eliminate details like - interest accrual, the fact that the current generation pays for the generation following it and is paid by the previous generation - that's how the system is set up to work, intentionally. And let's not forget that some people die before they can get back what they put in. And let's also not forget all those immigrants who are here legally on work visas - who pay into Social Security and are not ALLOWED to take any of it out.

My suggestion was to increase the cap - which is only $160,200. That means - if your paychecks came to $160,201, you pay $0 on that last dollar. If your paychecks came to $1,160,201, then you pay $0 in social security taxes on the million, you ONLY pay it on the $160,200. My suggestion was to increase that cap to $250,000.

[Stu from NYC]

No that would be $100 MORE per month than they're already paying. Not $100/month total. That's why I said $100 more. More = in addition to. It sounds like you're really working hard to cherry-pick and eliminate details like - interest accrual, the fact that the current generation pays for the generation following it and is paid by the previous generation - that's how the system is set up to work, intentionally. And let's not forget that some people die before they can get back what they put in. And let's also not forget all those immigrants who are here legally on work visas - who pay into Social Security and are not ALLOWED to take any of it out.

My suggestion was to increase the cap - which is only $160,200. That means - if your paychecks came to $160,201, you pay $0 on that last dollar. If your paychecks came to $1,160,201, then you pay $0 in social security taxes on the million, you ONLY pay it on the $160,200. My suggestion was to increase that cap to $250,000.

Once upon a time there was a relationship between what people put in and what they could eventually take out. What you are suggesting is a tax on people making over $ 160,000. That was not the purpose of SS.

[Marmaduke]

When you go to a restaurant, do you demand to see the ID of the white waitress who doesn't have a foreign accent? No? Why not?

When you walk into a bank - not even gotten as far as the line for the tellers - does a manager walk up to you and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

When you are driving through a neighborhood and stop at a stop sign, does someone rush out of their house and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

Answer: because your skin isn't brown.

The people who are HARASSED with this kind of behavior - are not white Americans. Yes everyone gets their ID checked. But not everyone is harassed for it by random strangers whose jobs don't involve checking IDs.

And yes - every example I just posted in this post has happened to people with brown skin, and similar incidents happen to them all the time. They are targeted and harassed because of their skin color. Puerto Ricans are told "you don't belong here, go back to your own country." Because a) all brown people look alike so obviously these must be illegal aliens, or b) some people skipped the history class where they were taught that Puerto Ricans ARE American citizens and DO belong here. Or possibly both.

There are people who think that if someone has brown skin and works as a home aid, then obviously they're illegal Haitians. And deserve to be harassed whenever they're seen wearing their uniform or scrub shirt outside their client's home.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Unless you're white. Then it doesn't happen.
Are we as United States Citizens really that bad, in your mind?

I clearly understand that you are a knock down, drag out verbalivious fighter, but I do not get why you bring a cannon to battle us almost daily.

Did your fellow man upset your apple cart to make you a crusader or...What's REALLY going on your world?

Just curious why you think members of the Greatest Generation and their offspring comprised of generou$, caring, loving people are evil, as only you tell us we are on a regular basis.
I am not enjoying your insults to me, my family or my friends. We do not deserve this constant berating and blather. Chill!

Breathe Deep.

[djplong]

It is SO much easier to say people don't want to work anymore. The truth is far different.

1) Unemployment is down below pre-pandemic levels. People DO want to work.

2) You failed math if you think that unemployment benefits are more than the paycheck you got to earn them. Remember? You DID have to work to qualify.

3) Research shows that it's not an unwillingness to work. It's being fed up with being paid poverty wages and having companies cry poverty while reporting record profits.

The perfect case is my older daughter. Stuck in a job she loved with management she hated at very low wages. She found a new job that paid TWICE as much, not perfect but still doing what she's good at, with a career path to higher management and senior management who actually listen to the people they hire.

Her old boss is complaining people don't want to work.

No, sir, they do not want to work FOR YOU.

The younger generation has an increasing number of members who are seeing the man behind the curtain. They have friends in foreign countries thanks to the internet and see how employees are treated there and are deciding they have had ENOUGH.

[jimbomaybe]

I like how you prefaced your opinion on "potential workforce". It gives you an out when someone says, have you seen the HISTORICALLY LOW unemployment rate.
The employment rate is an important stat, equally important is the participation rate that has not recovered from covid injected money add to that the baby boomers leaving the workforce, fewer workers , less productivity, higher proportional taking out than putting in, the SS welfare system being the third rail politically and believe it or not there is a limit on just how much debt governments can take on without the system breaking down , just as there is a limit on how much you tax the productive to support the less productive, how will this all pan out? ancient Chinese cruse " May you live in interesting times"

[Bill14564]

No that would be $100 MORE per month than they're already paying. Not $100/month total. That's why I said $100 more. More = in addition to. It sounds like you're really working hard to cherry-pick and eliminate details like - interest accrual, the fact that the current generation pays for the generation following it and is paid by the previous generation - that's how the system is set up to work, intentionally. And let's not forget that some people die before they can get back what they put in. And let's also not forget all those immigrants who are here legally on work visas - who pay into Social Security and are not ALLOWED to take any of it out.

My suggestion was to increase the cap - which is only $160,200. That means - if your paychecks came to $160,201, you pay $0 on that last dollar. If your paychecks came to $1,160,201, then you pay $0 in social security taxes on the million, you ONLY pay it on the $160,200. My suggestion was to increase that cap to $250,000.

I understood quite well what you wrote in post #36. I cherry picked nothing, I used all the information you provided.

That was not your suggestion in post #36. Your suggestion then was to raise the cap to $400,000 while raising the payouts to $6,000 for those averaging $250,000 in salary.

If this new suggestion of raising the cap to $250,000 also comes with the increase in payouts then the math is even worse.

Out of curiosity, how did you calculate your $100 MORE per month number?

[rsmurano]

Constant Harassment? Really. I have employed over 100 people for forty years. Many, like me, are beautiful and bronze poc. Where do you hear we are constantly harassed. I love this country, this state and the vast, vast percentage of great people that are fellow citizens. Sidenote, thinking "we" are unable or not sharp enough to obtain ID is insulting. BTW when do you think we are asked to show ID?

There is no constant harassment. That is just propaganda. Just like calling voting laws discriminatory by requiring you to show an id. We have needed to show Id for many things during our lives with no issues: buying beer, getting on a plane, buying/renting a home/apartment/condo, getting a loan, drivers license, registering at a library, buying a gun, all without any issues.

[huge-pigeons]

Social security was never meant to provide you all the money you needed to live on when you stopped working. You had the responsibility when you were younger to save for retirement and if you didn’t you only have yourself to blame.

People are lazy today and they want big government to provide them with what they need to survive. Our young people are not very bright these days and you can blame our teaching system. When schools think dumbing down curriculum and tests so everybody passes, how is that going to help get qualified surgeons/medical staffers into the field or having delinquents engineer our new planes?

There are states still paying people to stay home.

Why do people think that employers have to take care of you if you work for them a number of years?
Why do people complain about what CEO’s/company founders make or what management makes? All of this boils down to my statement above: people are lazy!

Decades ago, when I was 22, I decided that if I have to work, I was going to make the most money I could and I would do what it took to do it. So that required me to learn other technologies/skills after work hours so I could branch out to get to the next level. So I constantly took higher paying jobs with more demands and more stress up until I retired early comfortably. Went into management for a while but hated it plus I could get paid more for being a technologist.

So when I see people create companies that flourish and become billionaires, I congratulate them for doing the hard work required to get there. Others hate them, and imo, these are the lazy people that would rather complain than do something about their own livelihood to get to the level they want to be. Only you can control what you do and what you make in life. Government only gets in the way of progress.

[Laker]

When you go to a restaurant, do you demand to see the ID of the white waitress who doesn't have a foreign accent? No? Why not?

When you walk into a bank - not even gotten as far as the line for the tellers - does a manager walk up to you and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

When you are driving through a neighborhood and stop at a stop sign, does someone rush out of their house and demand to see your ID? No? Why not?

Answer: because your skin isn't brown.

The people who are HARASSED with this kind of behavior - are not white Americans. Yes everyone gets their ID checked. But not everyone is harassed for it by random strangers whose jobs don't involve checking IDs.

And yes - every example I just posted in this post has happened to people with brown skin, and similar incidents happen to them all the time. They are targeted and harassed because of their skin color. Puerto Ricans are told "you don't belong here, go back to your own country." Because a) all brown people look alike so obviously these must be illegal aliens, or b) some people skipped the history class where they were taught that Puerto Ricans ARE American citizens and DO belong here. Or possibly both.

There are people who think that if someone has brown skin and works as a home aid, then obviously they're illegal Haitians. And deserve to be harassed whenever they're seen wearing their uniform or scrub shirt outside their client's home.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Unless you're white. Then it doesn't happen.

Really? So bank managers make it a point to monitor the color of people in teller's lines, and rush out of their offices to harass their customers?

And people sit in their front window all day watching a stop sign and then try to catch up with a car before it pulls away so they can knock on the window and ask for ID?

Your assertions are so ridiculous they are laughable. My black roommate showed me how insulting your patronizing attitude is to blacks. He said "they think we're too stupid to see what they're doing. That's insulting".

Like they say, you're better off keeping your words to yourself rather than saying them out in public and making a fool of yourself.

[Caymus]

Really? So bank managers make it a point to monitor the color of people in teller's lines, and rush out of their offices to harass their customers?

And people sit in their front window all day watching a stop sign and then try to catch up with a car before it pulls away so they can knock on the window and ask for ID?

Your assertions are so ridiculous they are laughable. My black roommate showed me how insulting your patronizing attitude is to blacks. He said "they think we're too stupid to see what they're doing. That's insulting".

Like they say, you're better off keeping your words to yourself rather than saying them out in public and making a fool of yourself.

That is one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes. “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

[Vermilion Villager]

Are we as United States Citizens really that bad, in your mind?

I clearly understand that you are a knock down, drag out verbalivious fighter, but I do not get why you bring a cannon to battle us almost daily.

Did your fellow man upset your apple cart to make you a crusader or...What's REALLY going on your world?

Just curious why you think members of the Greatest Generation and their offspring comprised of generou$, caring, loving people are evil, as only you tell us we are on a regular basis.
I am not enjoying your insults to me, my family or my friends. We do not deserve this constant berating and blather. Chill!

Breathe Deep.
If the truth hurts...........:cryin2:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Once upon a time there was a relationship between what people put in and what they could eventually take out. What you are suggesting is a tax on people making over $ 160,000. That was not the purpose of SS.

There was never a relationship between what people put in and what they took out. Ever. You can google (or bing or duck duck go) social security history. I'll summarize though.

Ida May Fuller is the first person to ever collect a social security check.

She retired from her job in 1939. She was eligible to collect from her earnings starting in 1937 til her retirement, so a total of three years worth of SS deductions. She paid in a total of $24.75. Twenty four dollars, seventy five cents.

At the time of her death, she had received $22,888.92 total in SS benefits. That's twenty-two thousand, eight hundred eighty-eight dollars, ninety-two cents.

That is how SS was set up, that's how it's always been. You put in what you put in, and that pays for the people who are currently collecting benefits. When it's your turn, the current working generation pays yours.

[Marine1974]

Until employers pay a decent wage there will be
labor shortages. Supply and demand .

[Vermilion Villager]

Social security was never meant to provide you all the money you needed to live on when you stopped working. You had the responsibility when you were younger to save for retirement and if you didn’t you only have yourself to blame.

People are lazy today and they want big government to provide them with what they need to survive. Our young people are not very bright these days and you can blame our teaching system. When schools think dumbing down curriculum and tests so everybody passes, how is that going to help get qualified surgeons/medical staffers into the field or having delinquents engineer our new planes?

There are states still paying people to stay home.

Why do people think that employers have to take care of you if you work for them a number of years?
Why do people complain about what CEO’s/company founders make or what management makes? All of this boils down to my statement above: people are lazy!

Decades ago, when I was 22, I decided that if I have to work, I was going to make the most money I could and I would do what it took to do it. So that required me to learn other technologies/skills after work hours so I could branch out to get to the next level. So I constantly took higher paying jobs with more demands and more stress up until I retired early comfortably. Went into management for a while but hated it plus I could get paid more for being a technologist.

So when I see people create companies that flourish and become billionaires, I congratulate them for doing the hard work required to get there. Others hate them, and imo, these are the lazy people that would rather complain than do something about their own livelihood to get to the level they want to be. Only you can control what you do and what you make in life. Government only gets in the way of progress.

Please name them.......

[djplong]

Social security was never meant to provide you all the money you needed to live on when you stopped working. You had the responsibility when you were younger to save for retirement and if you didn’t you only have yourself to blame.

People are lazy today and they want big government to provide them with what they need to survive. Our young people are not very bright these days and you can blame our teaching system.

You ARE right about Social Security never being intended to be the sole support of seniors. FDR even said it himself - that Social Security was supposed to be one of three legs of a stool to support retirees - the other two legs being a person's own savings and a company pension.

Well, company pensions are as rare as hen's teeth today.

Private savings are being walloped by the avarice of corporate America. One example is what the ratio of wages to average housing expenses are (rent or mortgage) or how many years of salary the AVERAGE price of a house is. Hint: It's ugly. I'm retiring in a few years and if I wasn't already in my house, I couldn't afford to buy it. In 1978 my mother bought a 3BR house in the 'burbs for $49,900 on a $30,000 annual salary. That house goes for SIX times that price now and incomes haven't increased by nearly that much.

The same has held true for post secondary education expenses. I took courses for $300/semester "back in the day". Just try finding that, adjusted for inflation, today.

This keeps younger people from saving money.

Younger people don't want the government giving them free stuff. They want, among other things, corporations to pay their fair share so that the people aren't bailing them out. We've done 40 years of supply side trickle-down economics and it's always the same story. People think that by giving the dragon more money, he'll share his hoard with the people - and it NEVER happens.

And it's often (not always) the corporations.

Find a privately owned business - like, say, Bucc-ees, and you're much more likely to find fair wages - because you're more likely to find senior management and executive who are happy with making a "fair profit". Introduce a corporate structure and suddenly, BY LAW, you are supposed to put shareholder returns FIRST. That makes a big difference.

[tuccillo]

I doubt you will get an answer - the poster apparently can't do elementary multiplication. Par for the course.

I understood quite well what you wrote in post #36. I cherry picked nothing, I used all the information you provided.

That was not your suggestion in post #36. Your suggestion then was to raise the cap to $400,000 while raising the payouts to $6,000 for those averaging $250,000 in salary.

If this new suggestion of raising the cap to $250,000 also comes with the increase in payouts then the math is even worse.

Out of curiosity, how did you calculate your $100 MORE per month number?

[MrFlorida]

Obviously you live in a NEWS dark hole. Supreme Court ruled the Administrations debt forgiveness of $10,000 to $20,000 is not constitutional, so where do you get your information?

From my dark hole, our president is trying a work around for free college, you must have missed it....It came out the day after the SC announcement....try to keep up.

[MrFlorida]

I had to show my ID to get a Lowe's store credit, Not an issue for me, I've nothing to hide. No wants or warrants either.

[melpetezrinski]

The employment rate is an important stat, equally important is the participation rate that has not recovered from covid injected money add to that the baby boomers leaving the workforce, fewer workers , less productivity, higher proportional taking out than putting in, the SS welfare system being the third rail politically and believe it or not there is a limit on just how much debt governments can take on without the system breaking down , just as there is a limit on how much you tax the productive to support the less productive, how will this all pan out? ancient Chinese cruse " May you live in interesting times"

Well if you think the HISTORICALLY LOW "employment rate is an important stat", then how in the world can you back the claim that people "are not interested in working".

[Stu from NYC]

I had to show my ID to get a Lowe's store credit, Not an issue for me, I've nothing to hide. No wants or warrants either.

Given how much identity theft is going on these days why not ask for picture ID?

[Normal]

It isn’t rocket science. The largest generation known as the “Baby Boomers” is of retirement age or soon will be. The following smaller generation decided having more than two kids is out, or it isn’t cool to get married, are now expected to work to support our economy. Don’t forget, they have been taught by the schools to only pursue jobs that they “like” to do. Self gratification was the goal. What could possibly go wrong? LOL. We are all goners.

[jimbomaybe]

Well if you think the HISTORICALLY LOW "employment rate is an important stat", then how in the world can you back the claim that people "are not interested in working".
I never said "people are not interested in working" I do think its much more complex. There is a large variance between individuals as to how much effort they will exert working, likewise a great difference as to how people are willing to will live, some hand to mouth , living in squalor, a personnel life to match, at the other end individuals live in pristine conditions as well as their persons, financial situation well ordered, documented with projections. People driven to productivity who make things better for us all , the former dragging us down , who's efforts are dictated by bare necessity

[Bay Kid]

From my dark hole, our president is trying a work around for free college, you must have missed it....It came out the day after the SC announcement....try to keep up.

So easy to give away money of people that work.

[tophcfa]

Given how much identity theft is going on these days why not ask for picture ID?

An ID also helps to try to figure out how people identify?

[Stu from NYC]

An ID also helps to try to figure out how people identify?

True. I identify as a male who worked all his life

[MrFlorida]

True. I identify as a male who worked all his life

It dosen't matter what you identify as, it's the plumming that counts.

[tophcfa]

It dosen't matter what you identify as, it's the plumming that counts.

When in doubt there is always the Crocodile Dundee crotch grab sex check.

[Stu from NYC]

It dosen't matter what you identify as, it's the plumming that counts.

I do have the plumbing for what I identify as.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

My suggestion was to increase the cap - which is only $160,200. That means - if your paychecks came to $160,201, you pay $0 on that last dollar. If your paychecks came to $1,160,201, then you pay $0 in social security taxes on the million, you ONLY pay it on the $160,200. My suggestion was to increase that cap to $250,000.

just eliminate the cap. . .

The more you make, the less one will miss the small percentage . and the biggest contributors will be highly paid athletes and large corporate sr management.

They all can afford it and a fixed percentage for everyone equally is fairer as everyone pays their share.

[Stu from NYC]

just eliminate the cap. . .

The more you make, the less one will miss the small percentage . and the biggest contributors will be highly paid athletes and large corporate sr management.

They all can afford it and a fixed percentage for everyone equally is fairer as everyone pays their share.

So your making this into another income tax.

There is such a thing as giving people a reason to work harder and make more without getting the benefits of hard work. At some point are you not paying your fair share?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So your making this into another income tax.

There is such a thing as giving people a reason to work harder and make more without getting the benefits of hard work. At some point are you not paying your fair share?

It already is an existing tax, just not fairly distributed. . some taxes are not bad if they are spent properly, and this one would be sent properly supporting those who had contributed and expect / are counting on payouts. .

Majority of govt spending is social security due to the huge increase in longevity and the reduction in higher paying jobs, and medicare, due to the huge increase in longevity and the associated medical costs. . all retirement issues. .

So with machines replacing labor, you reduce the labor force paying into retirement programs. . . My last employer has over 250 bots doing human work. . should we tax them? All employees are customers, cut employees and you cut future sales Its just like the medieval system of land owners and serf labor. Now its capital owners of machines, and serf labor. . . you want to support the retired serfs to continue to purchase products, or are you expecting only working people with declining wages to buy stuff and pay into the retirement system?

Ultimately we will become Europe if we aren't careful. .

[Stu from NYC]

It already is an existing tax, just not fairly distributed. . some taxes are not bad if they are spent properly, and this one would be sent properly supporting those who had contributed and expect / are counting on payouts. .

Majority of govt spending is social security due to the huge increase in longevity and the reduction in higher paying jobs, and medicare, due to the huge increase in longevity and the associated medical costs. . all retirement issues. .

So with machines replacing labor, you reduce the labor force paying into retirement programs. . . My last employer has over 250 bots doing human work. . should we tax them? All employees are customers, cut employees and you cut future sales Its just like the medieval system of land owners and serf labor. Now its capital owners of machines, and serf labor. . . you want to support the retired serfs to continue to purchase products, or are you expecting only working people with declining wages to buy stuff and pay into the retirement system?

Ultimately we will become Europe if we aren't careful. .

I believe you are overlooking something.

As we continue to industrialize new jobs are created with higher pay offsetting a lot of the jobs that have been lost. Those people are buying products and services.

Also think that if we continue with labor shortages we will come to the conclusion we should invite people with necessary skills to become citizens. Higher taxes will discourage that.

[Whitley]

It is easy to blame the younger generations for being lazy, unwilling to work as we did, etc.. I do it at times myself. I do understand that there are reasons that contribute to the situation we are in. Many (all) of the reasons we worked so hard have been taken away from current generations. In 1970 the median home was 2.6 x the median income. It would take all income for 2.6 years to purchase the median priced home. Today it is close to 7 years. The home price to income ratio is far from healthy. Home prices have increased 4x the income increase. In 1970 it would take 3 months pay (median) to purchase a car (median price). Today it is close to one years income. Even renting an apartment has increased at 2x the rate of HOUSEHOLD income. I stress household because most households today have two incomes.
I doubt I am alone when I would complain about working 12 hour days, leaving when it was dark, coming home when it was dark, only to eat sleep and start again. I complained but I had a beautiful home, sent my children to private schools and drove nice cars. The current generation has been dealt a bum hand.

[Stu from NYC]

It is easy to blame the younger generations for being lazy, unwilling to work as we did, etc.. I do it at times myself. I do understand that there are reasons that contribute to the situation we are in. Many (all) of the reasons we worked so hard have been taken away from current generations. In 1970 the median home was 2.6 x the median income. It would take all income for 2.6 years to purchase the median priced home. Today it is close to 7 years. The home price to income ratio is far from healthy. Home prices have increased 4x the income increase. In 1970 it would take 3 months pay (median) to purchase a car (median price). Today it is close to one years income. Even renting an apartment has increased at 2x the rate of HOUSEHOLD income. I stress household because most households today have two incomes.
I doubt I am alone when I would complain about working 12 hour days, leaving when it was dark, coming home when it was dark, only to eat sleep and start again. I complained but I had a beautiful home, sent my children to private schools and drove nice cars. The current generation has been dealt a bum hand.

But we all have a lot more stuff than what we had growing up so not so sure that overall the current generation has been dealt a lousy hand.

[Normal]

We are in a situation where there are less able bodies workers available to do too many jobs. This drives up the price of many things because employers have to figure out ways around the higher wages that can obviously be demanded by the few. There are no instant fixes to the aged top heavy society we have eased into. Get used to poor service and longer lines because there just aren’t enough bodies to do the jobs available or needed by businesses.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I believe you are overlooking something.

As we continue to industrialize new jobs are created with higher pay offsetting a lot of the jobs that have been lost. Those people are buying products and services.

Also think that if we continue with labor shortages we will come to the conclusion we should invite people with necessary skills to become citizens. Higher taxes will discourage that.

unfortunately, the data doesn't support the future industrialization of production. Note the cash flow use graph below from BOA/Merrill Lynch research. Note the intangible(software) / PPE shrinking, in the 1990s, it was up to 60% of cash flow. Today, 40% of cash flow. But look at the percentage in stock buybacks / which isn't creating jobs, but enriching mgmt from 5% in the early 90s to almost 30% of cashflow today. .

Labor shortages will be self correcting, but will take time.

Construction average age in the 90s was about 32+ yo, today its about 42+ yo. . young people wanting to get into tech chasing the glory of yesteryear. . you can bring in external labor, but then you have a larger unemployment pool as the tech wannabes have to be supported. . .

Also, take a look at the graph in the link below:
The percentage change is negative most of the time, meaning labor is being replaced by machines or being offshored. . . not my decision, Sr mgmt decisions
Business Sector: Labor Share for All Workers | FRED | St. Louis Fed (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=16XEi)

time is running out on the labor market unless you are in a high demand trade. .

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Construction average age in the 90s was about 32+ yo, today its about 42+ yo. . young people wanting to get into tech chasing the glory of yesteryear. . you can bring in external labor, but then you have a larger unemployment pool as the tech wannabes have to be supported. . .

time is running out on the labor market unless you are in a high demand trade. .

Here is the graph which didn't make the cut above

[Stu from NYC]

Here is the graph which didn't make the cut above

Hope we are both around to see if you are right or if more well paid jobs will be created than your data suggests.

BTW ever read John Mauldin? Do believe his charts are more optimistic than yours.

[Cybersprings]

Welcome to the new America. Most home health aides are immigrants. Most Americans don't want the job. Some immigrants are afraid to work now, even if they are legally here, because of the constant harassment just because they have darker skin, or an accent. Entitled folks say "just show your ID and you'll be fine." How many times have those entitled folks been ordered to show their ID?

hmmmm I had to show ID, get fingerprinted and background checked for my last 3 jobs.

[MrChip72]

Ultimately we will become Europe if we aren't careful. .

Around half of European countries have a higher standard of living than the US though. I'm not sure that we want to avoid becoming more like Europe for certain things.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Hope we are both around to see if you are right or if more well paid jobs will be created than your data suggests.

BTW ever read John Mauldin? Do believe his charts are more optimistic than yours.

I am not an optimist by experience and some nature . ,. . . been burned by being optimistic way too many times . . . . . also the future is uncertain, so when talking the future, i don't like the rose color tinted glasses. . everything looks weird. .


Q: How do I make a par 5 tee shot better? since I can't see something that small that far away. .

A: after hitting it, start by assuming the ball is OB, lost or in the pond. When you drive / walk up to and see the ball again, in the first cut of rough. . . life is great I might be able to make par . . if I can't find it, I was right again. . . .


Yes, I have read some Mauldin, though i find him too verbose. I used to subscribe to one of his free emails. . too conceptual, powerpointy, not enough hard data for execution purposes.. .

I prefer to learn through the school of hard knocks. .

[Whitley]

I had to show my ID to get a Lowe's store credit, Not an issue for me, I've nothing to hide. No wants or warrants either.

I don't buy "If you have nothing to hide..." point. If I apply for a credit card, am going to vote, buy a pistol etc., I will present ID. I will not give my ID to the police or government (to enter a gov't building) unless the law specifically requires me to. I have nothing to hide, but value my rights granted (in this case) under the fourth amendment.

[Stu from NYC]

I am not an optimist by experience and some nature . ,. . . been burned by being optimistic way too many times . . . . . also the future is uncertain, so when talking the future, i don't like the rose color tinted glasses. . everything looks weird. .


Q: How do I make a par 5 tee shot better? since I can't see something that small that far away. .

A: after hitting it, start by assuming the ball is OB, lost or in the pond. When you drive / walk up to and see the ball again, in the first cut of rough. . . life is great I might be able to make par . . if I can't find it, I was right again. . . .


Yes, I have read some Mauldin, though i find him too verbose. I used to subscribe to one of his free emails. . too conceptual, powerpointy, not enough hard data for execution purposes.. .

I prefer to learn through the school of hard knocks. .

For golf carry a foot wedge and a device for getting balls from the ponds. Finance still think good no load mutual funds are a good idea