Lightning Strikes Home in DeLuna

[jrref]

Has anyone heard about the home in DeLuna that was hit by lightning last Thursday?

Made a hole in the roof, small fire and somehow damaged the water line and driveway.

We are seeing more homes hit recently due to the denser population and severe storms.

If you decide to get a lightning protection system be sure to get a UL certified installer. A1 and Triangle do installations here in the Villages.

[margaretmattson]

Has anyone heard about the home in DeLuna that was hit by lightning last Thursday?

Made a hole in the roof, small fire and somehow damaged the water line and driveway.

We are seeing more homes hit recently due to the denser population and severe storms.

If you decide to get a lightning protection system be sure to get a UL certified installer. A1 and Triangle do installations here in the Villages.

And yet, ANOTHER! If this doesn't convince you of the need for surge protection and lightening rods, I don't know what will! Two homes in one week! The other was in the village of Charlotte and information was posted on this forum.

[retiredguy123]

And yet, ANOTHER! If this doesn't convince you of the need for surge protection and lightening rods, I don't know what will! Two homes in one week! The other was in the village of Charlotte and information was posted on this forum.
Lightning protection systems are very expensive and not cost effective, especially since the damage is covered by your homeowners insurance.

A surge protector will do nothing to prevent a direct lightning strike to a roof.

[thelegges]

And yet, ANOTHER! If this doesn't convince you of the need for surge protection and lightening rods, I don't know what will! Two homes in one week! The other was in the village of Charlotte and information was posted on this forum.

Total redo of your house by insurance, plus you need to read what that surge protection really covers

[Altavia]

Lightning protection systems are very expensive and not cost effective, especially since the damage is covered by your homeowners insurance.

...



Really?

Have you thought through the impact of your home burning to the ground?

Ever delt with an insurance company after a total loss?

A LPS costs little more than most insurance deductablrs and are very effective at minimizing the risk.

That's why the Villages puts them on key infrastructure buildings.

[mrf0151]

Lightning protection systems are very expensive and not cost effective, especially since the damage is covered by your homeowners insurance.

A surge protector will do nothing to prevent a direct lightning strike to a roof.
If you had an in-depth discussion with Danny at A-1 Lightening, you would have a very different point of view.

[thelegges]

Really?

Have you thought through the impact of your home burning to the ground?


Ever delt with an insurance company after a total loss?


A LPS costs little more than most insurance deductablrs and are very effective at minimizing the risk.

That's why the Villages puts them on key infrastructure buildings.


Yes, material items are just stuff, replaceable

Yes family owned insurance agents, with years of experience for total loss.

So does Disney to draw lightning away from the people who don’t or can’t come out of the rain

[jrref]

You can say all you want that insurance will cover the loss but it can take a year or more to re-build your home in the current construction environment. In addition, when lightning hits your home, it will most likely punch a whole in your roof and start ricocheting around the attic and the interior of your home like a bullet looking for ground. If you or anyone in your household gets in the way, the lightning will kill you. I don't think that situation is coverend by insurance. In the strike in this post lightning found ground at the water meter and exploded the meter on the utility side and part of the driveway in addition to making a hole in the roof and starting a fire. Luckily someone was home to call the fire department right away. The people in Linden who's house was hit by lightning weren't so lucky because they were not home and the house burnt to the ground by the time someone noticed the fire and called for help.

A typical lightning protection system costs anywhere from $2,000- $2,500 depending on the size of your home. Larger homes will cost more. Get an estimate from a UL certified installer like A1 or Triangle Lightning Protection. Well worth the cost given the alternatives if you get hit.

As far as surge protection, you are correct it will do very little if you house takes a direct hit but that would be the least of your worries if that happened. The ensuing fire, smoke damage, potential loss of life outweighs your TV or refrigerator burning out from the strike.

What many don't know is even cloud to cloud lightning near your house can cause distructive power surges that can destroy electronic equipment. Even if a single surge doesn't destroy your TV or A/C over time multiple surges will damage electronic devices and appliances. This is why you hear people say their TV or A/C just stopped working without any events. Could have been from power surges over time. So what do you do? Spend the $500 and get Pike or Lenhart or whichever electrician you like and have them install an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA surge protector at your circuit breaker panel. This will protect surges from entering your home from outside and protect from the ongoing surges from inside your home. This plus point of use power strip surge protectors at you computer, TV, etc.. will give you excellent protection from power surges. If you want to go further you can also add the Seco Meeter Treater surge protector installed at your electric meter but that mainly protects power surges from your power line which is not as common but surge protection is a layered system so the more the better.

I'm part of the Villages Lightning Study Group led by Len Hathaway who gives talks on lightning in the Villages, publishes articles in the Villages News, and who keeps all the data for lightning events in the Villages for the past 15 years.

Getting lightning protection is an individual choice. It's like deciding to get flood or sink hole insurance. Your decision will be based on your tolerance for risk. That said, you need to have all the facts so you can make an intelligent decision and that's what the Villages Lightning Study Group does. If you have any questions please PM me.

You also need to remember, when you see cloud to ground lightning strikes off in the distance, that lightning is hitting the ground somewhere. It could be in an open field, golf course, water or someones house. With the population density in the Villages growing there are vastly more homes now that can and will be hit by lightning which is why we are hearing more and more reports. The home here struck in DeLuna was an open field last year so no one would have known about the stirke.

There is also an excellent web site created by Frank Cristie, another member of the study group here -> Lightning Protection Systems - Lightning Protection The Villages (https://lightningprotectionthevillages.com/)

Click on "More" in the upper right side of the Menu to see all the Information on Lightning Protection Systems and Surge Protection.

[Altavia]

Excellent info and synthesis Jref!

Is there is any correlation and/or increased risk related to metallic gas lines in the attic?

[jrref]

Excellent info and synthesis Jref!

Is there is any correlation and/or increased risk related to metallic gas lines in the attic?

The risk for the gas lines is when lightning strikes the house or near by there has been evidence of the corrigated gas lines puncturing (getting holes) from the electromagnetic pulse of the strike and the gas igniting. Especially with the older homes north of 466. There have been documentated cases where a home was struck by lightning and a fire ensued from the gas lines in the attic. Fortunately in several of these cases the homeowner was home, called the fire department and shut off the gas and put out the fire. The Villages upgraded the gas lines in the homes south of 44 but they are still of a corrigated type. So if you have a home with gas and you are concerned about lightning then get a Lightning Protection System. The installer will bond (ground) the gas manifold in the attic and the rest of the outside system which will virtually eliminate this issue. But remember, nothing is 100%. The alternative is to replace all your gas lines with solid metal pipe but that's a big expense and may be very hard to do in an older home.

[JudyLife]

Lightning protection systems are very expensive and not cost effective, especially since the damage is covered by your homeowners insurance.

A surge protector will do nothing to prevent a direct lightning strike to a roof.
In my experience lightning protection system (rods) on our 3/2 CYV from Triangle in 2022 was well worth the cost of $1300, especially as we are snowbirds. As far as homeowners insurance goes sure, but I’d rather do what I can in the first place to mitigate a direct hit and resulting damage, repair & upheaval. A well installed LPS is like an ‘additional insurance policy’ but a one-off payment.

[BlueStarAirlines]

There is also an excellent web site created by Frank Cristie, another member of the study group here -> Lightning Protection Systems - Lightning Protection The Villages (https://lightningprotectionthevillages.com/)

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "Here is a link to stuff Frank sells?" Since you started this advertisement thread, are you involved in this business venture as well? While your motives may have started out pure, it seems your intent is to increase fear and drive sales.

[midiwiz]

And yet, ANOTHER! If this doesn't convince you of the need for surge protection and lightening rods, I don't know what will! Two homes in one week! The other was in the village of Charlotte and information was posted on this forum.

LOL you need far better information, neither will help you. 200% guarantee.

[retiredguy123]

In my experience lightning protection system (rods) on our 3/2 CYV from Triangle in 2022 was well worth the cost of $1300, especially as we are snowbirds. As far as homeowners insurance goes sure, but I’d rather do what I can in the first place to mitigate a direct hit and resulting damage, repair & upheaval. A well installed LPS is like an ‘additional insurance policy’ but a one-off payment.
Do the math. Assume that a lightning protection system for an average Villages house would cost $2,000. So, to protect the Villages, that would be $140 million ($2,000 x 70,000 houses). In my opinion, it would not be worth the cost. The builder could offer it as an option, but I don't think they would get many takers.

[djlnc]

You also need to remember, when you see cloud to ground lightning strikes off in the distance, that lightning is hitting the ground somewhere. It could be in an open field, golf course, water or someones house. With the population density in the Villages growing there are vastly more homes now that can and will be hit by lightning which is why we are hearing more and more reports. The home here struck in DeLuna was an open field last year so no one would have known about the stirke.


Since you are effectively bringing the ground potential up over the roof with the grounded lightning rods, wouldn't you be making it more likely to attract a lightning strike?

[Nana2Teddy]

You can say all you want that insurance will cover the loss but it can take a year or more to re-build your home in the current construction environment. In addition, when lightning hits your home, it will most likely punch a whole in your roof and start ricocheting around the attic and the interior of your home like a bullet looking for ground. If you or anyone in your household gets in the way, the lightning will kill you. I don't think that situation is coverend by insurance. In the strike in this post lightning found ground at the water meter and exploded the meter on the utility side and part of the driveway in addition to making a hole in the roof and starting a fire. Luckily someone was home to call the fire department right away. The people in Linden who's house was hit by lightning weren't so lucky because they were not home and the house burnt to the ground by the time someone noticed the fire and called for help.

A typical lightning protection system costs anywhere from $2,000- $2,500 depending on the size of your home. Larger homes will cost more. Get an estimate from a UL certified installer like A1 or Triangle Lightning Protection. Well worth the cost given the alternatives if you get hit.

As far as surge protection, you are correct it will do very little if you house takes a direct hit but that would be the least of your worries if that happened. The ensuing fire, smoke damage, potential loss of life outweighs your TV or refrigerator burning out from the strike.

What many don't know is even cloud to cloud lightning near your house can cause distructive power surges that can destroy electronic equipment. Even if a single surge doesn't destroy your TV or A/C over time multiple surges will damage electronic devices and appliances. This is why you hear people say their TV or A/C just stopped working without any events. Could have been from power surges over time. So what do you do? Spend the $500 and get Pike or Lenhart or whichever electrician you like and have them install an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA surge protector at your circuit breaker panel. This will protect surges from entering your home from outside and protect from the ongoing surges from inside your home. This plus point of use power strip surge protectors at you computer, TV, etc.. will give you excellent protection from power surges. If you want to go further you can also add the Seco Meeter Treater surge protector installed at your electric meter but that mainly protects power surges from your power line which is not as common but surge protection is a layered system so the more the better.

I'm part of the Villages Lightning Study Group led by Len Hathaway who gives talks on lightning in the Villages, publishes articles in the Villages News, and who keeps all the data for lightning events in the Villages for the past 15 years.

Getting lightning protection is an individual choice. It's like deciding to get flood or sink hole insurance. Your decision will be based on your tolerance for risk. That said, you need to have all the facts so you can make an intelligent decision and that's what the Villages Lightning Study Group does. If you have any questions please PM me.

You also need to remember, when you see cloud to ground lightning strikes off in the distance, that lightning is hitting the ground somewhere. It could be in an open field, golf course, water or someones house. With the population density in the Villages growing there are vastly more homes now that can and will be hit by lightning which is why we are hearing more and more reports. The home here struck in DeLuna was an open field last year so no one would have known about the stirke.

There is also an excellent web site created by Frank Cristie, another member of the study group here -> Lightning Protection Systems - Lightning Protection The Villages (https://lightningprotectionthevillages.com/)
Thank you for this info. We live two blocks from the DeLuna house. I was at a class at Fenney during the storm and heard the sirens. My husband was home but had no idea the fire trucks were so close to home until I got home and saw them surrounding our rec center, which is directly across the street from the house that was struck. We didn’t know the details of the strike until I just read your comment here as it’s not being talked about in our DeLuna group.

Having come from California where we never had to worry about lightning strikes in our area of the state, we are feeling a bit nervous at this point. In fact, as a native Californian I’ve never seen anything like the storms we have here. They are scary!

[Bilyclub]

And yet, ANOTHER! If this doesn't convince you of the need for surge protection and lightening rods, I don't know what will! Two homes in one week! The other was in the village of Charlotte and information was posted on this forum.

There hasn't been anything published about the cause of the fire in Charlotte, except for one poster's opinion.

[Nana2Teddy]

In my experience lightning protection system (rods) on our 3/2 CYV from Triangle in 2022 was well worth the cost of $1300, especially as we are snowbirds. As far as homeowners insurance goes sure, but I’d rather do what I can in the first place to mitigate a direct hit and resulting damage, repair & upheaval. A well installed LPS is like an ‘additional insurance policy’ but a one-off payment.
I think you’re right. The couple in the DeLuna home didn’t lose their house to fire but it’s currently unlivable due to the damage it and the water main sustained. It’s a huge inconvenience to experience if you can avoid it with a LPS.

[jrref]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "Here is a link to stuff Frank sells?" Since you started this advertisement thread, are you involved in this business venture as well? While your motives may have started out pure, it seems your intent is to increase fear and drive sales.

I posted the web site for information only since there are not many sites that have everything in one place. It's a good source to start from for those wanting more information on the topic.

What's important is if you are going to get a Lightning Protection System for your home you need to hire a UL Certified installer or the system might not be installed or work properly. There is some science that goes into the design to get it right.

Also, for surge protection, it's a layered system. The more the better and many don't understand the differences between the surge protector at the meter, the surge protector installed at the circuit breaker panel and the point-of-use protectors.

[Gettingoutofdodge]

I went to a very informative POA meeting about lightening rods and decided for me, Lightening Rods were the way to go. I called A-1 and Danny, the owner answered all my questions, gave me an estimate and I decided it was worth the price for peace of mind. Insurance has for most of us a deductible. Add that to being displaced and loosing everything, the cost is well worth it. Go to the POA website and watch the meeting. Two electrical engineers and a meteorologist spoke. They live in the Villages.
All government buildings have lightening rods as well as the Village Squares and various other buildings in TV.
Don’t listen to hype and false information!


Really?

Have you thought through the impact of your home burning to the ground?

Ever delt with an insurance company after a total loss?

A LPS costs little more than most insurance deductablrs and are very effective at minimizing the risk.

That's why the Villages puts them on key infrastructure buildings.

[mvivanco]

I heard the fire department broke a hole in the roof. Not sure if it the lightning strike had also created a hole. I live on Pezzullo and I didn't get a notice about boiling water.

[Nana2Teddy]

I heard the fire department broke a hole in the roof. Not sure if it the lightning strike had also created a hole. I live on Pezzullo and I didn't get a notice about boiling water.

There isn’t much info being shared about this strike here in DeLuna, so maybe that’s correct. I do know only Crego Ct got the boil water notice. It was posted in our DeLuna FB group.

[jrref]

Since you are effectively bringing the ground potential up over the roof with the grounded lightning rods, wouldn't you be making it more likely to attract a lightning strike?

Although I understand your point, it doesn't work like that.

Lightning is complicated because it can be Cloud to Cloud, Cloud to Ground and Cloud to Structure. Most of the time in the Cloud to Structure case the cloud builds up negative charges and the structure or ground builds up positive charges. When the potential reachs a certain critical point, you get a lightning strike. If you have lightning rods the rods develop a concentration of positive charges at their tips which "draw" the strike to that point if a strike occurs, safely diverting the charge to earth ground vs hitting other parts of the roof causing a fire. There are also other situations that can happen but are too complicated to explain here but this is the basic idea of how the lightning rods work.

So for example, if you have 10 homes in an open field with only one with lightning rods, during a severe storm all 10 homes would build up positive charges on their roofs. If the negative charges in a cloud were strong enough to cause a lightning strike, all 9 of the homes would have a relatively equal chance of being hit randomly on their roof structure causing a fire where the 1 with the lightning rods would most likely be hit at one of it's lightning rods diverting the charge safely to earth ground without damage or fire.

[jrref]

I went to a very informative POA meeting about lightening rods and decided for me, Lightening Rods were the way to go. I called A-1 and Danny, the owner answered all my questions, gave me an estimate and I decided it was worth the price for peace of mind. Insurance has for most of us a deductible. Add that to being displaced and loosing everything, the cost is well worth it. Go to the POA website and watch the meeting. Two electrical engineers and a meteorologist spoke. They live in the Villages.
All government buildings have lightening rods as well as the Village Squares and various other buildings in TV.
Don’t listen to hype and false information!
I'm the engineer giving the talk on Surge Protection at that presentation.

[jrref]

I heard the fire department broke a hole in the roof. Not sure if it the lightning strike had also created a hole. I live on Pezzullo and I didn't get a notice about boiling water.

That's not correct. The lightning strike made the hole which caught the roof on fire. The fire department may have made the hole bigger when putting out the fire and then they put a tarp over that portion of the roof.

[jrref]

There isn’t much info being shared about this strike here in DeLuna, so maybe that’s correct. I do know only Crego Ct got the boil water notice. It was posted in our DeLuna FB group.

If you think about it, why would the fire department make a hole in the roof if there was no fire?

Unfortunately, The Villages doesn't like to publicize "bad news" which is why things like this are not widely reported. The strike a few weeks ago in Linden was reported by the local groups and the homeowner who witnessed the strike.

The fire department will not report the event as lightning unless there is clear evidence or someone witnessing the event.

[HJBeck]

Insurance will certainly cover the expense, but not one's inconvenience if you have to move somewhere else during repairs. Loss of irreplaceable memorabilia in our homes can not be recovered by insurance. I installed my own, per state requirements, for less then $500. This may not be practical for everyone due to their mobility issues, but having them installed certainly should give one piece of mind. You are absolutely right that whole house surge protection (surge arrestor at electric circuit breaker box), as well as a surge protecting devices at every appliance with electronics in them is an absolute minimum. Florida has the highest level of lightning occurance in the USA, owner/consumer be aware.

[Altavia]

I posted the web site for information only since there are not many sites that have everything in one place. It's a good source to start from for those wanting more information on the topic.


Maybe I missed something but for me, that is a very strange web site.

Other than the surge protection recommendations, it reads like some kind of a LPS inspection scam. The goofy installation video is rediculous, makes it hard to take anything there serious.

[Altavia]

If you think about it, why would the fire department make a hole in the roof if there was no fire?

Unfortunately, The Villages doesn't like to publicize "bad news" which is why things like this are not widely reported. The strike a few weeks ago in Linden was reported by the local groups and the homeowner who witnessed the strike.

The fire department will not report the event as lightning unless there is clear evidence or someone witnessing the event.

From the street the Linden home looked like the gas line was hit in the left front corner. Black scorch mark on the corner. The concrete block wall was cracked and bowed out from the strike.

[Bilyclub]

Since the insurance companies have dictated that a roof needs to replaced every 10 years, do the LPS have to be taken down while the roof gets replaced ? This would mean more than a one time cost to install.

[jrref]

Since the insurance companies have dictated that a roof needs to replaced every 10 years, do the LPS have to be taken down while the roof gets replaced ? This would mean more than a one time cost to install.

Yes when your roof needs replacement the LPS needs to be taken down and re-installed on the new roof. We have had someone do this and it wasn't as expensive as a new installation since most of the system can be re-used.

[jrref]

Maybe I missed something but for me, that is a very strange web site.

Other than the surge protection recommendations, it reads like some kind of a LPS inspection scam. The goofy installation video is rediculous, makes it hard to take anything there serious.

I should have noted, Click on "More" in the upper right side of the Menu to see all the Information on Lightning Protection Systems and Surge Protection.

[djlnc]

Although I understand your point, it doesn't work like that.

So for example, if you have 10 homes in an open field with only one with lightning rods, during a severe storm all 10 homes would build up positive charges on their roofs. If the negative charges in a cloud were strong enough to cause a lightning strike, all 9 of the homes would have a relatively equal chance of being hit randomly on their roof structure causing a fire where the 1 with the lightning rods would most likely be hit at one of it's lightning rods diverting the charge safely to earth ground without damage or fire.

But, isn't the house with lightning rods effectively 15 or 20 feet higher than the other houses, making it more likely to get struck as lightning will want to take the shortest path?

[jrref]

But, isn't the house with lightning rods effectively 15 or 20 feet higher than the other houses, making it more likely to get struck as lightning will want to take the shortest path?

All homes are at different heights and lightning rods are typically about 12 inches long for residential installations.

Lightning is unpredictable and we have seen cases where a house next to a very large tree was struck and the tree was not so there is no way to predict what can happen.

[djlnc]

All homes are at different heights and lightning rods are typically about 12 inches long for residential installations.

Lightning is unpredictable and we have seen cases where a house next to a very large tree was struck and the tree was not so there is no way to predict what can happen.

Well, it's probably an unanswerable question since strikes are relatively rare and always different circumstances. However, I have to question the blanket claim that LPS does not attract lightning. How does one substantiate that? If there is a buildup of millions of volts in the clouds in my area that is looking for a place to go, it just seems logical that the house with the lightning rods that have that great connection to ground and are closer to that charge in the clouds than the other houses would be the likely path that lightning would choose.

[retiredguy123]

How many houses have experienced lightning damage and what was the cost of the damage in the last 10 years in The Villages?

What percentage of houses in The Villages have lightning protection systems?

You can hype lightning protection systems all you want, but without this information, you cannot have an serious or productive discussion about the need for a lightning protection system.

[Altavia]

Well, it's probably an unanswerable question since strikes are relatively rare and always different circumstances. However, I have to question the blanket claim that LPS does not attract lightning. How does one substantiate that? If there is a buildup of millions of volts in the clouds in my area that is looking for a place to go, it just seems logical that the house with the lightning rods that have that great connection to ground and are closer to that charge in the clouds than the other houses would be the likely path that lightning would choose.

Good questions, the key is giving the energy a safe path to go.

There are ground wires in the house wiring criss crossing throughout the attic and home.
L And If you have natural gas, there are grounded metalic lines the attic. Neither can safely direct the energy.

The LPS provides a high energy path to ground around the exterior of the building to dissipate the strike safely thus reducing the risk.

Knowing The Villages installs LPS on critical infrastructure is enough verification for me.

[Fltpkr]

Has anyone heard about the home in DeLuna that was hit by lightning last Thursday?

Made a hole in the roof, small fire and somehow damaged the water line and driveway.

We are seeing more homes hit recently due to the denser population and severe storms.

If you decide to get a lightning protection system be sure to get a UL certified installer. A1 and Triangle do installations here in the Villages.

Does UL certify “installers”?

[Altavia]

Lightning Protection Professional Certification | UL Solutions (https://www.ul.com/services/lightning-protection-professional-certification)

I'd also look for someone with 5+ years experience and check references.

[jrref]

How many houses have experienced lightning damage and what was the cost of the damage in the last 10 years in The Villages?

What percentage of houses in The Villages have lightning protection systems?

You can hype lightning protection systems all you want, but without this information, you cannot have an serious or productive discussion about the need for a lightning protection system.

Len Hathaway has the statistics and I asked him to answer this question with the facts but in retrospect although your home is insured, lightning and the ensuing fire can cause loss of life, loss of unreplaceable personal belongings, loss of your primary residence for a year or more depending on the amount of destruction. You also need to consider the incredible stress on your family during the re-build when your home is damaged or destroyed or repair and replace with power surge destruction. That said, just like getting sink hole or flood insurance you need to determine you tolerance for Risk.

As mentioned, the people in the home in DeLuna were lucky because someone was home to call the fire department quickly but the people in Linden were not.

[jrref]

Good questions, the key is giving the energy a safe path to go.

There are ground wires in the house wiring criss crossing throughout the attic and home.
L And If you have natural gas, there are grounded metalic lines the attic. Neither can safely direct the energy.

The LPS provides a high energy path to ground around the exterior of the building to dissipate the strike safely thus reducing the risk.

Knowing The Villages installs LPS on critical infrastructure is enough verification for me.
Correct, thanks for this reply.

As mentioned, Lightning is unpredictible. During a storm all the homes will build up a positive charge and just because one has lightning rods doesn't make it "more charged". Your next door neighbors house could build up more charge than yours with the rods or a cloud with more negative charge could be closer to your neighbor down the street causing lightning to strike their house vs yours. All the lightning rods do is provide a safe path to earth ground if your home is hit vs the lightning hitting the structure randomly and causing a fire and destruction.

Hope this helps.

[jrref]

Lightning Protection Professional Certification | UL Solutions (https://www.ul.com/services/lightning-protection-professional-certification)

I'd also look for someone with 5+ years experience and check references.

I'm not affiliated in any way with these UL Certified installers who have been installing LPS systems in the Villages for many years.

In alphabetical order:

A-1 Lightning Protection
352-465-0620

Central Lightning Protection
407-380-6995

Triangle Lightning Protection
352-483-7020

[Lightning]

How many houses have experienced lightning damage and what was the cost of the damage in the last 10 years in The Villages?

What percentage of houses in The Villages have lightning protection systems?

You can hype lightning protection systems all you want, but without this information, you cannot have an serious or productive discussion about the need for a lightning protection system.

It sounds like you are struggling with a low probability event such as a lightning strike to your home living here in the Lightning Capital of the US. If you live in Sumter County we experience 47.5 cloud-to-ground strikes per square mile per year that is 10th highest county in the nation, Fortunately, most do not cause any significant damage.


Human nature is to defer action on the grounds that there is insufficient information to base a decision. There was no statistical data on air travel by blimps until 1937 when the Hindenburg crashed and after that no one wanted to travel by that mode. Perfect information for a lightning strike to your home is not available. Each homeowner needs to consider their own threshold of risk. If it is high you do nothing and don't worry about it. If you have a low threshold of risk your provide layers of lightning protection including a lightning protection system as others have said on this thread. for peace of mind.

[HJBeck]

Yes it may, but the grounding system would circumvent the home structure all together. Think about an airplane flying thru a thunderstorm. They use the same theory to route the stroke around the inside of the plane.

[HJBeck]

True, but there is an issue called risk tolerance (peace of mind) every home owner must factor in. In many cases the facts just don't matter. If cost is the issue, one can always install one's own system for less then $500. They just need to ensure they meet code requirements and are comfortable working on a roof, and if not pay the ~$1500 to have a certified installer do it.

[pikeselectric]

Hello Jrref, Just wanted to mention thank you for such a detailed and informative post! Unfortunately there is no protection from a direct strike. We have received calls to respond to electrical issues in the aftermath of direct or nearby strikes causing damage. We have also received an influx of calls from new and older homes/residents in The Villages interested to transition their home's gas appliances (range and dryer) to electric. Although we do not get involved with the removal/capping/shut off of gas lines into the home, we have recently received numerous calls per day to make this change, wonder if it is because of such circumstance? New built homes in the Newell, Lake Denham, and even Middleton community homes may still have specification to install lines/gas appliances. On the note of whole home surge protection - We offer whole home surge protection with the Eaton Ultra, you may have some knowledge on it, and have had great success with it protecting homes with surge damage from nearby strikes/power surges. I look forward to reading any other information you may post for education. - Casandra with Pike's Electric

[jrref]

Hello Jrref, Just wanted to mention thank you for such a detailed and informative post! Unfortunately there is no protection from a direct strike. We have received calls to respond to electrical issues in the aftermath of direct or nearby strikes causing damage. We have also received an influx of calls from new and older homes/residents in The Villages interested to transition their home's gas appliances (range and dryer) to electric. Although we do not get involved with the removal/capping/shut off of gas lines into the home, we have recently received numerous calls per day to make this change, wonder if it is because of such circumstance? New built homes in the Newell, Lake Denham, and even Middleton community homes may still have specification to install lines/gas appliances. On the note of whole home surge protection - We offer whole home surge protection with the Eaton Ultra, you may have some knowledge on it, and have had great success with it protecting homes with surge damage from nearby strikes/power surges. I look forward to reading any other information you may post for education. - Casandra with Pike's Electric

Thanks for your response. Yes, I've stated in the Villages Lightning Study Group presentations and here in this thread that there is no surge protection from a Direct Strike. But again, we have seen different intensity strikes here in the Villages. Some of the smaller strikes on homes may have had less damage to the electrical equipment in the home if they had good layered surge protection installed.

As far as the gas concerns, installing a Lightning Protection System by a UL Certified installer will protect your home from a lightning strike and mitigate the problem with lightning strikes and the gas lines. We have a record of one person in the Villages who's home was struck with a lightning protection system installed and there was no damage to the home since the charge was directed safely to earth ground.

I had your company install the Eaton Ultra in my home here in Osceola Hills last year and your techs did a nice job. I also had the Eaton Ultra surge protector installed in my home in NY and it protected me from power surges we had serveral times over many years .

[jrref]

Yes it may, but the grounding system would circumvent the home structure all together. Think about an airplane flying thru a thunderstorm. They use the same theory to route the stroke around the inside of the plane.

Actually, if you are in a metal enclosure like a car or an airplane the lightning doesn't effect you because you are in a Faraday cage or shield where the electrical charge travels over the metal of your vehicle or airplane and protects you inside.

In the case of a lightning protection system on your home when the charge hits one or more of the lightning rods there are several cables diverting the charge to earth ground. Different principle but same result.

[Dusty_Star]

Hi jrref, thanks for your time & efforts to help us. If someone is considering the layered approach, but thinks it may be too expensive to do every piece at one time, which order would you recommend? I do realize the best order would match to the type of threat encountered, but consider that unknowable, unfortunately.

[Altavia]

How Does One Lightning Strike Kill Multiple Animals? - E&S Grounding Ask the Experts (https://esgrounding.com/blog/how-does-one-lightning-strike-kill-multiple-animalsparent_id0user_id0post_id14nameemailcomment )

Herd animals that gather in groups are typically killed not by a direct lightning strike, but by the current flowing through the ground from the strike.

What happens is that the lightning strike often hits a tree or the ground near where the animals are gathered and the electrical current then spreads along the surface of the ground and shocks any people or animals in the vicinity of the strike. Electrical current literally goes up one leg and down the other back into the ground.

Eventually, the current dissipates as it flows further and further from the strike point.

For example, 23 cows were killed instantly after lightning struck the metal fence they were standing next to during a storm in Texas recently. Since the cows were all lined up next to the fence, they were all impacted by the lightning strike and burn marks on their stomachs indicated that electrical current had flowed through their bodies, killing them instantly.

The average lightning strike can carry more than 20,000 amps of electrical current, more than enough to kill a herd of cattle by passing through their nervous system and instantly stopping their hearts. It doesn’t matter whether the animals are touching or not, or how close they are to each other. The only thing that matters is how close they are to the strike point and how powerful the strike is.

We call this phenomenon “Step Potential”.

Step potential is the voltage between the feet of a person or animal standing near an energized object. Interestingly, animals are even more vulnerable than humans to step potentials because their legs are farther apart, so ground currents can travel more easily through their bodies.


How far can the ground current travel?

Hazardous step potentials can occur at a significant distance away from any given strike and the more current that is pumped into the ground, the greater the hazard. Animals have been reported to have been killed at distances over 250 feet from a lightning strike which shows just how far electrical current can travel through the ground.

Quick facts

Lightning causes more than 80% of all accidental livestock deaths (from USDA)
Over 100,00 farm animals are killed by lightning annually
85,000 chickens were killed due to a lightning strike in Florida
835 Sheep died due to a lightning strike in Utah
323 reindeer in a herd were killed by lightning in Norway
250 pigs died in Thailand due to a single lightning strike
68 Cows died due to a lightning strike in Australia
52 Cows died in Uruguay when lightning struck nearby wire fencing

Did you know?

Whether or not you believe in climate change, storms are becoming more frequent and violent, and records show large animal deaths by lightning strikes are on the rise.

A lightning strike is a common cause of death for wild Mustang horses that roam throughout the West because the flat terrain at higher elevations is frequently struck by lightning during a storm and if the horse is the tallest object on the plain he becomes the lightning conductor.

You may not realize that your livestock are dying from lightning strikes since animals electrocuted by lightning often do not show any burns on their bodies.

21 Cattle were killed when lightning struck a metal feeder they were eating from in McCook County, South Dakota — at an estimated loss to the rancher of about $45,000.

In 2016, Grade I winner “Brilliant Speed” was struck by lightning and killed. Brilliant Speed finished in the money in the G1 Belmont Stakes, G1 Breeders’ Cup Turf, G1 Jamaica Handicap, G1 Sword Dancer, and G1 Woodford Reserve Turf Classic.

[djlnc]

A lightning strike is a common cause of death for wild Mustang horses that roam throughout the West because the flat terrain at higher elevations is frequently struck by lightning during a storm and if the horse is the tallest object on the plain he becomes the lightning conductor.


Isn't the house with lightning rods kind of like the "tallest object on the plain"?

[North country retiree]

The house in DeLuna took a direct hit to the roof. It killed router/modems and other electronics in at least 3 other residents on the street. We believe the water main was hit and the pipe cracked. The water meter did NOT explode. The fire department was called for the water main break and was told that lightening hit and threw breakers at houses on the street. The fire department then noticed the fire and investigated it at the house.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

How Does One Lightning Strike Kill Multiple Animals? - E&S Grounding Ask the Experts (https://esgrounding.com/blog/how-does-one-lightning-strike-kill-multiple-animalsparent_id0user_id0post_id14nameemailcomment )

How far can the ground current travel?

Hazardous step potentials can occur at a significant distance away from any given strike and the more current that is pumped into the ground, the greater the hazard. Animals have been reported to have been killed at distances over 250 feet from a lightning strike which shows just how far electrical current can travel through the ground.



I was watching TV during my first of many biz trips to FL about 30 years ago, and i was staying in a Sunrise hotel. On the news was a report of a woman being killed by lightning while pushing her shopping cart to her car at Sawgrass Mills.

That blew my mind coming from the NE where T-storms are relatively infrequent of that magnitude. Now, meh

What also blew my mind was reading about the protection cone of a lightening rod, and then seeing lightning NOT hitting the tallest metal object at a refinery in Texas while on an oil tanker . . as well as knowing someone killed by a lightning strike within the cone of protection on an oil tanker

[Bill14564]

Isn't the house with lightning rods kind of like the "tallest object on the plain"?

Yes, but....

The lightning rods provide a "cone of protection" that runs about 45 degrees from top of the rod. If you are within that cone then the lightning rod is the "tallest object on the plain." Even if you are standing only five feet away, if you are outside that cone then the lightning rod does nothing for you.

The rods on your neighbor's house will not protect your house because your house is outside the 45 degree cone.

[Altavia]

I was watching TV during my first of many biz trips to FL about 30 years ago, and i was staying in a Sunrise hotel. On the news was a report of a woman being killed by lightning while pushing her shopping cart to her car at Sawgrass Mills.

That blew my mind coming from the NE where T-storms are relatively infrequent of that magnitude. Now, meh



Just a reminder, you really want to get off the golf course during lightening.



Golf Course Lightning: 5 Safety Precautions You Should Follow - Sport Light Supply (https://sportlightsupply.com/golf-course-lightning-safety-precautions/)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Just a reminder, you really want to get off the golf course during lightening.

The lightning strike setting on weather apps is probably the most important setting while golfing in FL. I have had it go off on a nice partly sunny puffy clouds day in FL. . . makes you much more aware of the potential danger while golfing

We were golfing in a valley with woods around many years ago in the NE when a Tstorm and Tornado warning came up for the area. . then i was bit scared. . .

[Altavia]

The lightning strike setting on weather apps is probably the most important setting while golfing in FL. I have had it go off on a nice partly sunny puffy clouds day in FL. . . makes you much more aware of the potential danger while golfing

We were golfing in a valley with woods around many years ago in the NE when a Tstorm and Tornado warning came up for the area. . then i was bit scared. . .

This is my current favorite:

My Lightning Tracker & Alerts on the App Store (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/my-lightning-tracker-alerts/id1175031987)

Not unusual to see hundreds of strikes an hour within a 10 mi radius.

[Altavia]

///

[jrref]

Hi jrref, thanks for your time & efforts to help us. If someone is considering the layered approach, but thinks it may be too expensive to do every piece at one time, which order would you recommend? I do realize the best order would match to the type of threat encountered, but consider that unknowable, unfortunately.

I would get the whole house surge protector installed at the circuit breaker panel first.
Pikes has a discount running now till August 1st.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2235466-post1.html

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Well, it's probably an unanswerable question since strikes are relatively rare and always different circumstances. However, I have to question the blanket claim that LPS does not attract lightning. How does one substantiate that? If there is a buildup of millions of volts in the clouds in my area that is looking for a place to go, it just seems logical that the house with the lightning rods that have that great connection to ground and are closer to that charge in the clouds than the other houses would be the likely path that lightning would choose.

Couple of questions:

1) i thought that through high speed cameras, it has been proven that lightning starts from the ground from collecting charges from the earth and goes up, which is why bolts end up going through and then above the clouds which air line pilots report.

2) i thought that lightning rods are old technology, which assumes that the building will get hit, so lightning rods create a limited faraday cage around the house, providing a path to the ground "safely"

3) I have read that new technology is built to reduce the buildup of earth's charges to reduce/eliminate the risk of creating a lightning bolt. I remember reading about the reduction from lightning protection on ski lifts and gondolas out west. . and this is the first article i found when googling it. .

https://www.lightningprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lec-mtn-village-transportation-case-study-020513.pdf

just questions from a former working guy

[Dusty_Star]

I would get the whole house surge protector installed at the circuit breaker panel first.
Pikes has a discount running now till August 1st.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2235466-post1.html

Thanks very much!

[Altavia]

Couple of questions:

1) i thought that through high speed cameras, it has been proven that lightning starts from the ground from collecting charges from the earth and goes up, which is why bolts end up going through and then above the clouds which air line pilots report.

2) i thought that lightning rods are old technology, which assumes that the building will get hit, so lightning rods create a limited faraday cage around the house, providing a path to the ground "safely"

3) I have read that new technology is built to reduce the buildup of earth's charges to reduce/eliminate the risk of creating a lightning bolt. I remember reading about the reduction from lightning protection on ski lifts and gondolas out west. . and this is the first article i found when googling it. .

https://www.lightningprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lec-mtn-village-transportation-case-study-020513.pdf

just questions from a former working guy

Very interesting. I've noticed the terminators at some power distribution centers but thought they were to keep birds from nesting .

Full system may not be practical for homes from a cost/esthetics protective

[djlnc]

Yes, but....

The lightning rods provide a "cone of protection" that runs about 45 degrees from top of the rod. If you are within that cone then the lightning rod is the "tallest object on the plain." Even if you are standing only five feet away, if you are outside that cone then the lightning rod does nothing for you.

The rods on your neighbor's house will not protect your house because your house is outside the 45 degree cone.

This sounds very strange to me. A 45 degree "cone of protection" would mean that a one foot tall lightning rod would only protect the area of the roof within one foot. You'd have to have lightning rods spaced at one foot intervals for good protection.

[djlnc]

Couple of questions:

1) i thought that through high speed cameras, it has been proven that lightning starts from the ground from collecting charges from the earth and goes up, which is why bolts end up going through and then above the clouds which air line pilots report.

just questions from a former working guy

I don't know what difference the direction of travel would make - the results are the same.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I don't know what difference the direction of travel would make - the results are the same.

For detection maybe,
for end results no

There are meters you can put into the ground near soccer fields which will measure lightning potential, so that one can get off the field prior to being a target.

[Altavia]

This sounds very strange to me. A 45 degree "cone of protection" would mean that a one foot tall lightning rod would only protect the area of the roof within one foot. You'd have to have lightning rods spaced at one foot intervals for good protection.

They use something called the rolling sphere method to determine spacing for complex structures.

Rolling Sphere Method Lightning Protection Design in Florida (https://www.bondedlightning.com/rolling-sphere-method)

For a flat roof, looks like the NFPA requires no more than 20-25 ft spacing such that the circumference of the sphere would rest on the air terminals.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Bill14564 View Post
Yes, but....

The lightning rods provide a "cone of protection" that runs about 45 degrees from top of the rod. If you are within that cone then the lightning rod is the "tallest object on the plain." Even if you are standing only five feet away, if you are outside that cone then the lightning rod does nothing for you.

Since i knew of a work colleague who was killed inside the cone of protection, I would say i wouldn't trust the theory by testing the execution. .

[jrref]

This sounds very strange to me. A 45 degree "cone of protection" would mean that a one foot tall lightning rod would only protect the area of the roof within one foot. You'd have to have lightning rods spaced at one foot intervals for good protection.

I believe for residental it's 25 ft of protection and the rods have to provide an overlapping pattern.

[jrref]

Couple of questions:

1) i thought that through high speed cameras, it has been proven that lightning starts from the ground from collecting charges from the earth and goes up, which is why bolts end up going through and then above the clouds which air line pilots report.


3) I have read that new technology is built to reduce the buildup of earth's charges to reduce/eliminate the risk of creating a lightning bolt. I remember reading about the reduction from lightning protection on ski lifts and gondolas out west. . and this is the first article i found when googling it. .

https://www.lightningprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lec-mtn-village-transportation-case-study-020513.pdf

just questions from a former working guy

What you reading about is the flow of the electric current once the strike occurs. As someone said, it really doesn't matter since the effect is the same.

There is some new technology taking advantage of the "ionic effect" that lightning rods generate. So when we have a storm and a negatively charged cloud moves over your house, for example, the build up of positive charges at the tips of your lightning rods will create an ionic exchange of charges potentially reducing the chance of a strike. But if the charge build up is large enough, you will get a strike.