Sumter County Fire Assessment Increase

[JGibson]

161% increase, Yikes!

[margaretmattson]

161% increase, Yikes!
Have not seen or heard anything regarding. What is the new amount they are seeking?

[JSR22]

Have not seen or heard anything regarding. What is the new amount they are seeking?

$124 to $323.34

[charlie1]

I guess now we know why Sumter County did not release estimated county fees for fire assessment during the referendum. I know people were worried about The Villages fees and the taxes for the Villages Fire Department but at least the Villages Fire Management was open as to what their fees and taxes would be. I am sure the fees would have been much higher for the rest of Sumter had the referendum passed. The Villages Fire district would have had the majority of the homes and the highest residential tax assessments in the county. The county wanted to spread these dollars over the whole county. Protection is very concentrated so cost are probably less per home in the Villages. The rest of the county is very much rural and very spread out which results in higher cost for the same protection! Hopefully this is a lesson learned! Again, than you to the Villages Fire Department for being UPFRONT on the cost of the department! By the way, this does not mentioned any increase in the county budget for fire protection which are paid with general county taxes.

[Stu from NYC]

Guess the village voters made an error in their vote

[Snowbirdtobe]

At one time the Villages EMS had a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their heart still pumping. To me that is the only thing that I am interested in. Is that EMS care is at least as good as their past results. We don't know yet what the true costs will be and we can always elect county commissioners that support the villages residents and not the developer in the future. From the information that I have seen a 1000 sq/ft apartment will pay $539-$344 each with no cap on the totals and no assessment ceiling.
This sounds like a Victory for everyone that voted against Villages fire district.

[villagetinker]

As I recall the "information" or possibly "misinformation" was so convoluted that neither me nor my wife could make heads or tails on how to vote. IMHO, the proposal was not handled well, and I do not believe the people actually got good information on what they were voting for or against, so I guess we are stuck with this for the next few years.....

[Bill14564]

At one time the Villages EMS had a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their heart still pumping. To me that is the only thing that I am interested in. Is that EMS care is at least as good as their past results. We don't know yet what the true costs will be and we can always elect county commissioners that support the villages residents and not the developer in the future. From the information that I have seen a 1000 sq/ft apartment will pay $539-$344 each with no cap on the totals and no assessment ceiling.
This sounds like a Victory for everyone that voted against Villages fire district.

Did the Villages even have an EMS service before last year?

Where did you find any information on the charges for an apartment? thought the building owner would be charged.

Under the fire district that was defeated my charges would have increased $60 at the most. Under this proposal they will increase $200 at the least. This certainly is not a victory for me but I didn't vote against the fire district.

[Bill14564]

As I recall the "information" or possibly "misinformation" was so convoluted that neither me nor my wife could make heads or tails on how to vote. IMHO, the proposal was not handled well, and I do not believe the people actually got good information on what they were voting for or against, so I guess we are stuck with this for the next few years.....

Not that it matters now but I could share the calculations I used if you are still interested.

I agree with your assessment that the proposal was not handled well. I watched two presentations and was amazed that the funding was explained in such a confusing manner.

[JoMar]

I expected a significant increase when the fire district was defeated so not surprised. I was disappointed that we lost a fire chief that gave his heart to The Villages, that defeat was more painful. I suspect the actual increases will be significantly less (aren't they always) but they are more than they needed to be. I also credit the POA for the defeat, many I talked to didn't try and learn, they just followed the POA and voted against the district because they were told by the POA to do that. Lot of that goes on here.

[charlie1]

I expected a significant increase when the fire district was defeated so not surprised. I was disappointed that we lost a fire chief that gave his heart to The Villages, that defeat was more painful. I suspect the actual increases will be significantly less (aren't they always) but they are more than they needed to be. I also credit the POA for the defeat, many I talked to didn't try and learn, they just followed the POA and voted against the district because they were told by the POA to do that. Lot of that goes on here.

I wish people would see the POA for what it is - A bias
Political organization!

[Stu from NYC]

Hopefully Don Wiley will weigh in on this.

[HoosierPa]

161% increase, Yikes!

The fire tax doesn’t cover the cost so the county's general fund tax rate must be higher to cover the shortfall of fire.

[Papa_lecki]

At one time the Villages EMS had a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their heart still pumping. To me that is the only thing that I am interested in. Is that EMS care is at least as good as their past results. We don't know yet what the true costs will be and we can always elect county commissioners that support the villages residents and not the developer in the future. From the information that I have seen a 1000 sq/ft apartment will pay $539-$344 each with no cap on the totals and no assessment ceiling.
This sounds like a Victory for everyone that voted against Villages fire district.

The amazing heart attack survival rate in the villages mostly has to do with the AED program most villages have.

[Papa_lecki]

Guess the village voters made an error in their vote

Not the first, and won’t be the last.

[Veracity]

I wish people would see the POA for what it is - A bias
Political organization!

You nailed it....And it's a shame that the POA has so much political influence. This is just another example of how a small group of "haters" continue to steer so many "trusting" residents in the wrong direction for their political gain.

[MandoMan]

At one time the Villages EMS had a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their heart still pumping. To me that is the only thing that I am interested in. Is that EMS care is at least as good as their past results. We don't know yet what the true costs will be and we can always elect county commissioners that support the villages residents and not the developer in the future. From the information that I have seen a 1000 sq/ft apartment will pay $539-$344 each with no cap on the totals and no assessment ceiling.
This sounds like a Victory for everyone that voted against Villages fire district.

The slower response time was due to the large number of Covid cases being taken to the hospital. My next door neighbor died of it. There were extra duties for dealing with a contagious disease, and the time per trip was much longer than usual, what with decontamination procedures that had to be followed. That’s why people got all upset and were impatient and wanted a change. This is one of the results.

[Gunny2403]

So, what happened to that 3% inflation rate.

[Bilyclub]

Either way Villagers were going to pay a higher fire fee. There was no guarantee that if the independent fire district was passed that we would not also be paying for the rest of the county.

[Travelhunter123]

As I recall the "information" or possibly "misinformation" was so convoluted that neither me nor my wife could make heads or tails on how to vote. IMHO, the proposal was not handled well, and I do not believe the people actually got good information on what they were voting for or against, so I guess we are stuck with this for the next few years.....

Well said

[ROCKETMAN]

Even my small home will save $100 in property tax decrease of 7.5 per cent. Half million dollar house breaks even.

[txfan]

It hasn't been increased in 17 yrs.

If it had been incrementally raised ~$11/yr, would anyone be up in arms about an outrageous increase to provide an any moment life or death service?

[GizmoWhiskers]

I guess now we know why Sumter County did not release estimated county fees for fire assessment during the referendum. I know people were worried about The Villages fees and the taxes for the Villages Fire Department but at least the Villages Fire Management was open as to what their fees and taxes would be. I am sure the fees would have been much higher for the rest of Sumter had the referendum passed. The Villages Fire district would have had the majority of the homes and the highest residential tax assessments in the county. The county wanted to spread these dollars over the whole county. Protection is very concentrated so cost are probably less per home in the Villages. The rest of the county is very much rural and very spread out which results in higher cost for the same protection! Hopefully this is a lesson learned! Again, than you to the Villages Fire Department for being UPFRONT on the cost of the department! By the way, this does not mentioned any increase in the county budget for fire protection which are paid with general county taxes.
Sumter County is getting a big "ego" with the gold rush to develop into another booming city. They sure are raking in the doe and taking their sweet time to fix the horrible roads and massive increases in traffic.

[JGibson]

Not totally related but this country is going to have a serious homeless crisis if they don't reign in housing costs.

[Bill14564]

Even my small home will save $100 in property tax decrease of 7.5 per cent. Half million dollar house breaks even.

What property tax decrease? You should pay the same amount as last year…. plus the $200 increase in the fire service fee.

[seavon]

The information about the cost of protection was confusing because the proponents wanted it to be with calculations of land value, market value, tiers etc. The bottom line is the country decides the level of service it wants for its citizens and the cost is the cost. The method of funding has always been a set dollar value for each dwelling and the county funding vis a vie with property taxes the difference. Now the county wants to add cost with new services and employees etc. To do that they plan to raise the fire tax and reduce property taxes so that they can say they lowered or maintained the tax rate and the “misinformed citizens caused the fire rate increase. Do not be misled. The decision to keep the current system maintains the transparency of cost to homeowners. How much the overall cost is, does not change. How you pay for it always reverts to the homeowner and I would much rather see a funding process that can be understood. Want lower fire rate, don’t support a reduced property tax and or question the need for “add on” services.

[rockyhyder]

I guess now we know why Sumter County did not release estimated county fees for fire assessment during the referendum. I know people were worried about The Villages fees and the taxes for the Villages Fire Department but at least the Villages Fire Management was open as to what their fees and taxes would be. I am sure the fees would have been much higher for the rest of Sumter had the referendum passed. The Villages Fire district would have had the majority of the homes and the highest residential tax assessments in the county. The county wanted to spread these dollars over the whole county. Protection is very concentrated so cost are probably less per home in the Villages. The rest of the county is very much rural and very spread out which results in higher cost for the same protection! Hopefully this is a lesson learned! Again, than you to the Villages Fire Department for being UPFRONT on the cost of the department! By the way, this does not mentioned any increase in the county budget for fire protection which are paid with general county taxes.

Well said. The county is using the fire assessment increase to offset their contribution to the increased cost of the fire/ems services due to the addition of ambulance services. So instead of increasing the cost proportionally across the entire county via the county tax rate, village residents get to pay more because the cost is per rooftop verses assessed property value. This basically doubled the increase most village households would have incurred if the fire district had been approved.

[glsatterlee]

I expected a significant increase when the fire district was defeated so not surprised. I was disappointed that we lost a fire chief that gave his heart to The Villages, that defeat was more painful. I suspect the actual increases will be significantly less (aren't they always) but they are more than they needed to be. I also credit the POA for the defeat, many I talked to didn't try and learn, they just followed the POA and voted against the district because they were told by the POA to do that. Lot of that goes on here.
Too many new people follow the POA, without doing their own investigative work, and it has resulted in bad choices for the board of commissioners, and now the fire department. People who do not want to dig into the subject matter shouldn’t be voting.

[Goldwingnut]

Hopefully Don Wiley will weigh in on this.

Busy this morning but this afternoon I will spend and hour to type up all the details and post them here. Bottom line the primary cause of the increase is the incorporation of the ambulance service. Previously it was a private service that cost the county/VPSD nothing, the problem was there were only 6 or 7 available in the entire county and once they rolled there were no longer available this led to very long wait times for transport. 45-60 min or more for an ambulance was unacceptable to the residents and they voiced their concerns to the BOCC. BOCC listened, VPSD listened. There are now about 16 ambulances staffed and on call 24/7 and staffed by firefighter-paramedics in the county. The cost increase you are seeing is to cover this additional availability for what is not covered by insurance for the actual transport service. This is what the county residents wanted and BOCC/VPSD is delivering. This cost increase was coming no matter which way the IFD vote went, the IFD vote did however impact how the costs are distributed, I'll touch on that in detail later today when I have more time.

[Karmanng]

$124 to $323.34

WHOA they think we are all made of $$$$$$$$$$ so much for tax decreases you would think with all the new builds they would lower it some

[rogerk]

Either way Villagers were going to pay a higher fire fee. There was no guarantee that if the independent fire district was passed that we would not also be paying for the rest of the county.
That is simply incorrect. If the independent fire district had passed it would have been independent and separate from the county!

I know it was complicated and perhaps could have been explained better but to keep blaming the developer is inexcusable and irresponsible.

The independent fire district was approved by the Sumter County Commissioners, the Florida Legislature and signed by the Governor.

Blaming the developer is ridiculous; three of the five Commissioners were supported by the POA.

[Singerlady]

161% increase, Yikes!

How about spreading the increase out over a few years?

[Indydealmaker]

Guess the village voters made an error in their vote

Nope. You get what you pay for.

[Stu from NYC]

Nope. You get what you pay for.

Sometimes that is correct but other times things are done more efficiently.

[Bilyclub]

That is simply incorrect. If the independent fire district had passed it would have been independent and separate from the county!

I know it was complicated and perhaps could have been explained better but to keep blaming the developer is inexcusable and irresponsible.

The independent fire district was approved by the Sumter County Commissioners, the Florida Legislature and signed by the Governor.

Blaming the developer is ridiculous; three of the five Commissioners were supported by the POA.


Number one , no where in my post is blame attached to anybody. Number two, there was and is nothing stopping Sumter County from using property tax money to fund the Sumter County FD.

[Papa_lecki]

How about spreading the increase out over a few years?

1) there will be increases in future years
2) they need to pay those bills this year.

[JGibson]

Number one , no where in my post is blame attached to anybody. Number two, there was and is nothing stopping Sumter County from using property tax money to fund the Sumter County FD.

The fact that they don’t is odd.

[Bill14564]

The fact that they don’t is odd.

The County funds both VPSD and SCFEMS with assessment dollars (the new $323) AND tax dollars.

Had the IFD passed, the County would not have funded the VPSD but there was no guarantee that my tax dollars would not have continued to fund the SCFEMS. Without the IFD my tax dollars fund both.

[BobnBev]

So then, how do we get back to having an IFD?

[Jmiller176]

161% increase, Yikes!

I concur. Got my official letter today. That is a steep increase.
Is there a definitive reason why?

[Goldwingnut]

I concur. Got my official letter today. That is a steep increase.
Is there a definitive reason why?

Yes, the county residents wanted better ambulance service availability and wanted the service provided by the fire departments instead of the private contractor AMR. This has a cost, and this is what you are seeing.

The fire assessment hasn't gone up in over 10 years and it never covered the cost of the basic fire service, last year the $124/developed property covered just over 20% of the actual fire service costs, the rest came out of the general fund that is about 50% funded by property taxes. The new assessment covers the cost of fire protection service for both fire departments. The cost of transport services (ambulance service) that isn't covered by insurance/direct payment is covered in the general fund budget for both FDs.

Businesses will take a huge hit as commercial industrial and intuitional properties now pay by the square foot instead of the flat $124, and apartment complexes that used to pay $124/year for the entire complex now will pay $323.64/year for each dwelling unit/apartment.

If you live in The Villages, a significant part of this increase is also due to the No vote for the Independant Fire District. While there would have been an increase in cost due to the increase in services (ambulance availability) provided, Villages residents make up about 80% of the property values in Sumter County and likewise of the individual developed properties; the fire service budget for the VPSD is only slightly larger than the Sumter County FD, this means that the Villages residents are funding 100% of VPSD and over 50% of the Sumter FD cost. Had the IFD been approved this extra 50% would not have been paid by Villages residents. It's all simple math.

While it was inevitable that the total cost was going to go up due to the increased services, Village residents can thank the those few vocal misguided organizations and individuals that spread their misinformation and distrust so well for the additional cost being carried. This is two elections in a row that these groups have screwed things up for the residents, let's hope that they don't have the same success (?) in the next election cycle.

[villagetinker]

Don,

I really wish there was a good UNDERSTANDABLE explanation of the proposal prior to the vote. I was so confused by the wording of the proposal and then the following discussions that ii appears I made mistake. Your comments appear to be spot on.

[margaretmattson]

Yes, the county residents wanted better ambulance service availability and wanted the service provided by the fire departments instead of the private contractor AMR. This has a cost, and this is what you are seeing.

The fire assessment hasn't gone up in over 10 years and it never covered the cost of the basic fire service, last year the $124/developed property covered just over 20% of the actual fire service costs, the rest came out of the general fund that is about 50% funded by property taxes. The new assessment covers the cost of fire protection service for both fire departments. The cost of transport services (ambulance service) that isn't covered by insurance/direct payment is covered in the general fund budget for both FDs.

Businesses will take a huge hit as commercial industrial and intuitional properties now pay by the square foot instead of the flat $124, and apartment complexes that used to pay $124/year for the entire complex now will pay $323.64/year for each dwelling unit/apartment.

If you live in The Villages, a significant part of this increase is also due to the No vote for the Independant Fire District. While there would have been an increase in cost due to the increase in services (ambulance availability) provided, Villages residents make up about 80% of the property values in Sumter County and likewise of the individual developed properties; the fire service budget for the VPSD is only slightly larger than the Sumter County FD, this means that the Villages residents are funding 100% of VPSD and over 50% of the Sumter FD cost. Had the IFD been approved this extra 50% would not have been paid by Villages residents. It's all simple math.

While it was inevitable that the total cost was going to go up due to the increased services, Village residents can thank the those few vocal misguided organizations and individuals that spread their misinformation and distrust so well for the additional cost being carried. This is two elections in a row that these groups have screwed things up for the residents, let's hope that they don't have the same success (?) in the next election cycle.
What would the Villages do without Goldwingnut? Thank you, Don! Maybe when there is another election, you can explain it to us before the vote. You always do thorough research. Thanks again!

[Calisport]

Got a fee notice today of over $330

[Goldwingnut]

Don,

I really wish there was a good UNDERSTANDABLE explanation of the proposal prior to the vote. I was so confused by the wording of the proposal and then the following discussions that ii appears I made mistake. Your comments appear to be spot on.

I tried, but my hands were very tied because I would be voting on these issues in upcoming meetings so I was very limited on what could be said. I tried to get an official response to counter some of the misinformation that was being put out, but there appeared to be other agendas at play that didn't align with my thinking, and I was overruled. There was enough information available that an educated and approximate amounts could have been put forth by both parties if they had cooperated to provide a clear picture.

The ugly truth of the issue that went undiscussed was that had the IFD passed, all FD and transport costs would have had to be removed from the county budget (across the board property tax rate decrease) to prevent double taxation for the same services. A new tax structure would have had to be established for both FDs to cover their costs. This would have resulted in two similar sized budgets for the two FDs with 80% of the tax base paying for one and 20% paying for the other. The county residents would have seen a huge increase to cover both fire and transport service costs while Villages residents would have seen a per house decrease in fire protection cost plus a smaller increase in transport service costs. Again, it's just math, and math has no opinions, biases, or agendas, only facts.

The County residents would have been the most negatively impacted and had absolutely no say in making the decision.

[Goldwingnut]

Got a fee notice today of over $330

Perhaps you should check again, the amount per developed residential property is $323.64, and it is the same for everyone in the county.

[margaretmattson]

I tried, but my hands were very tied because I would be voting on these issues in upcoming meetings so I was very limited on what could be said. I tried to get an official response to counter some of the misinformation that was being put out, but there appeared to be other agendas at play that didn't align with my thinking, and I was overruled. There was enough information available that an educated and approximate amounts could have been put forth by both parties if they had cooperated to provide a clear picture.

The ugly truth of the issue that went undiscussed was that had the IFD passed, all FD and transport costs would have had to be removed from the county budget (across the board property tax rate decrease) to prevent double taxation for the same services. A new tax structure would have had to be established for both FDs to cover their costs. This would have resulted in two similar sized budgets for the two FDs with 80% of the tax base paying for one and 20% paying for the other. The county residents would have seen a huge increase to cover both fire and transport service costs while Villages residents would have seen a per house decrease in fire protection cost plus a smaller increase in transport service costs. Again, it's just math, and math has no opinions, biases, or agendas, only facts.

The County residents would have been the most negatively impacted and had absolutely no say in making the decision. no law states that you can't post about voting in opinion form on this forum. Just saying....

[Goldwingnut]

no law states that you can't post about voting in opinion form on this forum. Just saying....

The Florida Open Meeting laws (a.k.a. Sunshine Laws) apply to social media as well as other forms of communications. My comments could have been interpreted as back-channel communication with other commissioners. I cared not to go down the same avenue as my predecessor, just saying...

[mtdjed]

Got a fee notice today of over $330

Let's all understand that what we got was not a bill or even technically a fee notice. We got a "Notice to Property Owners" supposedly required by Florida Statutes. It basically states that the county plan is to charge the Fire Protection Services equally to all county residences. What is wrong with that? They are even having a public hearing on August 22 for public comment. Note there is a Paragraph that states that exceeding this Notice cost "maximum " will require a notice

Costs are costs. The actual budget will be based upon costs of facilities, personnel, and services paid. If they took money from General fund before, and have now proposed separate fund, then we should expect a decrease in general fund.

Should be based upon total assets and services currently approved. If anything new is included, that should be identified.

[margaretmattson]

The Florida Open Meeting laws (a.k.a. Sunshine Laws) apply to social media as well as other forms of communications. My comments could have been interpreted as back-channel communication with other commissioners. I cared not to go down the same avenue as my predecessor, just saying... Not even in opinion form? Oh wow! Strict rules. Thanks for your honest answer.

[Goldwingnut]

Let's all understand that what we got was not a bill or even technically a fee notice. We got a "Notice to Property Owners" supposedly required by Florida Statutes. It basically states that the county plan is to charge the Fire Protection Services equally to all county residences. What is wrong with that? They are even having a public hearing on August 22 for public comment. Note there is a Paragraph that states that exceeding this Notice cost "maximum " will require a notice

Costs are costs. The actual budget will be based upon costs of facilities, personnel, and services paid. If they took money from General fund before, and have now proposed separate fund, then we should expect a decrease in general fund.

Should be based upon total assets and services currently approved. If anything new is included, that should be identified.

Please read post #41, there are new services being provided that must be paid for - ambulance transport services. All of this has been fully explained in public records and meeting records for the budget. This we addressed in great detail at a County Commission workshop meeting that was open to the public (recording is also available on county website). Multiple meetings/workshops have been held since the first of the year as we have worked through the budgeting process, these meetings have all been open to the public and open to public comment and input, sadly the most public attendance was 5 people with the normal being only 2 people from the general public at these meetings. Quite honestly, after 7 months of work on the county budget and priorities, the time for public outrage over what has been proposed is now long since passed.

If someone is upset over the proposed increase my questions to them are:
Which fire station shall we close to save money? The one near your house or the one near someone else's house?
What other services shall we cut?
and
Why didn't you attend the budget workshops and express your concerns then?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but the County has to live in the real world with deadlines, real costs, and priorities for the entire county, the highest of which is public safety. In this case, the public has spoken and demanded a higher level of service, and these are the costs that must be paid. If the cost is too high, then something must be cut.

[Goldwingnut]

Not even in opinion form? Oh wow! Strict rules. Thanks for your honest answer.

Yep, even now as I comment on the issues here, I must pick and choose my words very carefully so as to not violate the Sunshine laws.

[Kenswing]

Is there any chance that we’ll get the opportunity to vote for a IFD again, or was that one and done?

[Goldwingnut]

Is there any chance that we’ll get the opportunity to vote for a IFD again, or was that one and done?

Yes, it can be voted on again, talk to your district supervisors and the district staff and let them know your desires.

[Bill14564]

I concur. Got my official letter today. That is a steep increase.
Is there a definitive reason why?

Look at the Sumter Fire Assessment Report on the July 11 Workshop Agenda (https://sumterclerk.granicus.com/GeneratedAgendaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=1815)

[Bill14564]

Let's all understand that what we got was not a bill or even technically a fee notice. We got a "Notice to Property Owners" supposedly required by Florida Statutes. It basically states that the county plan is to charge the Fire Protection Services equally to all county residences. What is wrong with that? They are even having a public hearing on August 22 for public comment. Note there is a Paragraph that states that exceeding this Notice cost "maximum " will require a notice

Costs are costs. The actual budget will be based upon costs of facilities, personnel, and services paid. If they took money from General fund before, and have now proposed separate fund, then we should expect a decrease in general fund.

Should be based upon total assets and services currently approved. If anything new is included, that should be identified.

They took money before and they are taking money now. This increase in the fee better represents the true cost of providing fire protection service but also makes it possible for the property tax rate to remain at the rollback rate (legally defined as no increase or decrease).

EDIT: I used 2023 numbers (current year) rather then 2024 numbers (upcoming year) which made the calculations very wrong. Below is a more accurate statement.

Had the fee not been increased then the $124 fee would still be far less than the true cost of service and the property tax rate would have increased by something like 20% to 25% (rough calculation based on the proposed budget).

[Maker]

The ugly truth of the issue that went undiscussed was that had the IFD passed, all FD and transport costs would have had to be removed from the county budget (across the board property tax rate decrease) to prevent double taxation for the same services. A new tax structure would have had to be established for both FDs to cover their costs. This would have resulted in two similar sized budgets for the two FDs with 80% of the tax base paying for one and 20% paying for the other. The county residents would have seen a huge increase to cover both fire and transport service costs while Villages residents would have seen a per house decrease in fire protection cost plus a smaller increase in transport service costs. Again, it's just math, and math has no opinions, biases, or agendas, only facts.

Why was this statement NOT MADE in a commissioner meeting? In an open forum with all commissioners present, and in full compliance with communication laws.
Factual information that was never presented.

It describes two fully separate independent kingdoms. No tax money from one gets used for the other. I think that's what everyone wanted.

[Bill14564]

Why was this statement NOT MADE in a commissioner meeting? In an open forum with all commissioners present, and in full compliance with communication laws.
Factual information that was never presented.

It describes two fully separate independent kingdoms. No tax money from one gets used for the other. I think that's what everyone wanted.

The issue was not a Sumter County issue. The Commissioners withheld comment to allow the Villages residents to come to their own decision.

Two separate departments with separate funding mechanisms is exactly what was presented... many times. Even the Sumter County proposed budget showed the separate funding for the out years.

The only thing that was not presented was how it would affect non-Villagers. However, that was not the concern of the IFD vote. The IFD vote was only to determine if Villagers wanted their own separate district. Facts were provided, statements were made questioning the honesty of those providing the facts, the phrase "pig in a poke" was thrown around, the vote was taken, and here we are.

[kja58us]

I believe this increase was proposed last year, and the research showed that even without this assessment, tax increase the fire department still provided the services

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=margaretmattson;2241768]no law states that you can't post about voting in opinion form on this forum. Just saying....[/
//////

[Pjontheway]

I received a notice of public hearing. It will help at Everglades Recreation center on Marsh Bend Trail, 8/22/23 at 6pm

Is this to agree/reject the proposed assessment of $324?

[Pjontheway]

I agree. If they took money from General fund before, and have now proposed separate fund, then we should expect a decrease in general fund. (Question is, will this happen?)

[Bill14564]

I agree. If they took money from General fund before, and have now proposed separate fund, then we should expect a decrease in general fund. (Question is, will this happen?)

See post #56 and the proposed budget at the link in post #55.

- The proposed budget sets the millage at the rollback rate
- The overall general fund will increase, at least in part due to growth in homes and businesses

[dtennent]

I tried, but my hands were very tied because I would be voting on these issues in upcoming meetings so I was very limited on what could be said. I tried to get an official response to counter some of the misinformation that was being put out, but there appeared to be other agendas at play that didn't align with my thinking, and I was overruled. There was enough information available that an educated and approximate amounts could have been put forth by both parties if they had cooperated to provide a clear picture.

The ugly truth of the issue that went undiscussed was that had the IFD passed, all FD and transport costs would have had to be removed from the county budget (across the board property tax rate decrease) to prevent double taxation for the same services. A new tax structure would have had to be established for both FDs to cover their costs. This would have resulted in two similar sized budgets for the two FDs with 80% of the tax base paying for one and 20% paying for the other. The county residents would have seen a huge increase to cover both fire and transport service costs while Villages residents would have seen a per house decrease in fire protection cost plus a smaller increase in transport service costs. Again, it's just math, and math has no opinions, biases, or agendas, only facts.

The County residents would have been the most negatively impacted and had absolutely no say in making the decision.

After I retired, I was elected Town Supervisor of a rural town in upstate NY. This put me in charge of the budget and the budget setting process. All of our meetings were publicized and open to the public. If two people from the general public showed up, it was a crowd. We always answered questions during the meeting and in 1:1 situations. However, with the sunshine laws, we had to be very careful of what we said in other forums.

So here is a big tip of the hat to Don for his thoughtful, measured approach both on this forum and in official meetings. You have a job that has more headaches than rest of us will ever know.

[golfing eagles]

I received a notice of public hearing. It will help at Everglades Recreation center on Marsh Bend Trail, 8/22/23 at 6pm

Is this to agree/reject the proposed assessment of $324?

Not really, just read the notice. You may comment at the meeting but must also submit an appeal in writing within 20 days. Also, read the last paragraph---unless there is litigation filed within 30 days, the assessment will go into effect.

The vote occurred last November, and the majority of voters rejected the formation of an independent Villages fire district. If memory serves, for some unknown reason, a vocal group encouraged a no vote claiming it would financially benefit "the developer", who had nothing to do with it. But the emotional argument prevailed at the voting booth. So now you have the cost increase you would have had anyway, but it is now under County, not Village control.

[pokeefe45@aol.com]

Not really, just read the notice. You may comment at the meeting but must also submit an appeal in writing within 20 days. Also, read the last paragraph---unless there is litigation filed within 30 days, the assessment will go into effect.

The vote occurred last November, and the majority of voters rejected the formation of an independent Villages fire district. If memory serves, for some unknown reason, a vocal group encouraged a no vote claiming it would financially benefit "the developer", who had nothing to do with it. But the emotional argument prevailed at the voting booth. So now you have the cost increase you would have had anyway, but it is now under County, not Village control.

Very good summation of the 'current situation'. It amazes me how some people's intent is to ensure the 'evil developer's' don't benefit from anything. Why do I care if they benefit from something that will also benefit me? There is no one who can tell us how much this increase might have been-lower or higher, had we voted to authorize the IFD-but having that expense more under OUR (TV) control, rather than lumped in with more disparate interests in the rest of the county, in my mind was a no-brainer. I don't work for TV, nor have any financial interest in anything beyond my own home, but let's get off the 'bash the developer' bandwagon-It's visceral and unfounded. If I see the words 'Katie Belle's' referenced one more time in a social media post, I'm going to take this Lenovo and throw it in an alligator infested retention pond.

[golfing eagles]

Very good summation of the 'current situation'. It amazes me how some people's intent is to ensure the 'evil developer's' don't benefit from anything. Why do I care if they benefit from something that will also benefit me? There is no one who can tell us how much this increase might have been-lower or higher, had we voted to authorize the IFD-but having that expense more under OUR (TV) control, rather than lumped in with more disparate interests in the rest of the county, in my mind was a no-brainer. I don't work for TV, nor have any financial interest in anything beyond my own home, but let's get off the 'bash the developer' bandwagon-It's visceral and unfounded. If I see the words 'Katie Belle's' referenced one more time in a social media post, I'm going to take this Lenovo and throw it in an alligator infested retention pond.

And if the alligator eats it, it must be the developer's fault. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bill14564]

...

The vote occurred last November, and the majority of voters rejected the formation of an independent Villages fire district. If memory serves, for some unknown reason, a vocal group encouraged a no vote claiming it would financially benefit "the developer", who had nothing to do with it. But the emotional argument prevailed at the voting booth. So now you have the cost increase you would have had anyway, but it is now under County, not Village control.

Very good summation of the 'current situation'. It amazes me how some people's intent is to ensure the 'evil developer's' don't benefit from anything. Why do I care if they benefit from something that will also benefit me? There is no one who can tell us how much this increase might have been-lower or higher, had we voted to authorize the IFD-but having that expense more under OUR (TV) control, rather than lumped in with more disparate interests in the rest of the county, in my mind was a no-brainer. I don't work for TV, nor have any financial interest in anything beyond my own home, but let's get off the 'bash the developer' bandwagon-It's visceral and unfounded. If I see the words 'Katie Belle's' referenced one more time in a social media post, I'm going to take this Lenovo and throw it in an alligator infested retention pond.

I can say that the maximum I would have paid for fire protection under the IFD was $717. It is likely I would have paid less since it is likely the variable Ad-Valorem would not have been maxed out in the first year. I can say that under the proposed budget I will be paying $727 to fund fire protection in the upcoming year.

I will be paying $10 more than the maximum I could have been charged under the IFD and $300 more than what I expected to pay under the IFD.

[Goldwingnut]

Not really, just read the notice. You may comment at the meeting but must also submit an appeal in writing within 20 days. Also, read the last paragraph---unless there is litigation filed within 30 days, the assessment will go into effect.

The vote occurred last November, and the majority of voters rejected the formation of an independent Villages fire district. If memory serves, for some unknown reason, a vocal group encouraged a no vote claiming it would financially benefit "the developer", who had nothing to do with it. But the emotional argument prevailed at the voting booth. So now you have the cost increase you would have had anyway, but it is now under County, not Village control.

Had the IFD proposal passed, the developer would have lost control of the VSPD. Currently the VSPD is under the direction of the VCCDD, a developer appointed (it called landowner elected, but with basically one landowner it is, well, appointed) board. If the IFD had passed then the VPSD would have been under the direct control of a resident elected (not landowner elected) board and the developer would have lost any control over the VPSD.

The sky is falling (aka I hate the developer) crowd would have had you believe that since the Govenor would have appointed the initial board that they would have been all hand picked by the developer. Individuals desiring one of these would have to apply to the Govenor's off for one of these positions, and I'm pretty sure the governor's office would have reached out to the local RPOF leadership and other influential individuals (including the developer's office) for their input. Why, because the governor's office doesn't and can't know everyone in the state so they rely on local leadership for input on getting the people with the right mindset in place for the initial board to get things rolling, and after 2 years it would have been up to the residents to elect or replace 3 of these individuals. No this was pure patrician party politics masqueraded as public concern; our governor being a Republican would have appointed 5 strong Republicans to the board which would have further eroded the democrat's footing in Sumter County. This is something the democrat leaning board of some organizations couldn't possibly tolerate so they used their typical tactic and blamed it on the developer and would have labeled anyone appointed to the board as "in the developer's pocket". Trust me on this one, I know it from first-hand experience.

As we sit now, there is an extra layer of administrative laboring involved with getting a VPSD budget passed and funded, it now has to go through the county for final say on funding. With this extra layer comes no way of separating which fire department your tax dollars go to; it all goes into one pot and then is divided between the FD. The big winner is the non-Villages residents of the county, and the big losers are the Villages residents due to the 20/80 county/villages split in tax revenues and funding but not necessarily in spending in this area.

While many didn't fully understand the issue and were perhaps influenced by a false narrative of the issue when they voted last year, the next election is even more critical. Everyone should remember that it only takes 3 votes, yes the votes 3 individuals, to make VPSD go away. It only takes 3 county commissioners in agreement to consolidate the two fire departments into one and the VPSD vanishes.

Both FDs are outstanding organizations with phenomenal and strong leadership and exceptionally talented employees, but they have different missions and different customers, one size does not fit all. Both FDs have worked together for years and continue to do so now when the needs arise, hopefully that will never change.

[2newyorkers]

$124 to $323.34

Mine also.

[Grill Meister]

At one time the Villages EMS had a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their heart still pumping. To me that is the only thing that I am interested in. Is that EMS care is at least as good as their past results. We don't know yet what the true costs will be and we can always elect county commissioners that support the villages residents and not the developer in the future. From the information that I have seen a 1000 sq/ft apartment will pay $539-$344 each with no cap on the totals and no assessment ceiling.
This sounds like a Victory for everyone that voted against Villages fire district.

I salute The Villages EMS, but one thing for you to keep in mind. Still yet, The Villages EMS has a remarkable record of delivering heart attack victims to the hospital with their hearts still pumping is also due to the fact that there are over 256 AED Teams, there are ovfer 671 AEDs located withing The Villages and 6,000+ AED/CPR Responders. That was last count and the numbers are growing every week. Those AED responders receive the greatest credit for saving the lives of victims of cardiac arrest. GOD bless them every one.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Residents should understand that the Developer is paying a fire impact fee of $0 on his new construction.

[Two Bills]

:popcorn::boxing2:

[golfing eagles]

Residents should understand that the Developer is paying a fire impact fee of $0 on his new construction.

And we need to understand that because.......??????

And are impact fees split out into fire, police, library, etc????

And does the fire department have to respond to "the developer", or to homes that are owned by people that are on fire???

Just more anti-developer crap.

[Bogie Shooter]

And we need to understand that because.......??????

And are impact fees split out into fire, police, library, etc????

And does the fire department have to respond to "the developer", or to homes that are owned by people that are on fire???

Just more anti-developer crap.

Has a history of that……..

[golfing eagles]

Has a history of that……..

and also a relatively new user name if not mistaken.

[Goldwingnut]

Residents should understand that the Developer is paying a fire impact fee of $0 on his new construction.

Just like every other builder in Sumter County, NONE pay a "fire impact fee". Why? Because Sumter County doesn't have a fire impact fee. This assessment change has absolutely nothing to do with impact fees, it is all about the operating costs and the cost increases caused by the increased ambulance service availability that the residents wanted.

[John Mayes]

Just like every other builder in Sumter County, NONE pay a "fire impact fee". Why? Because Sumter County doesn't have a fire impact fee. This assessment change has absolutely nothing to do with impact fees, it is all about the operating costs and the cost increases caused by the increased ambulance service availability that the residents wanted.

That guy has caused a lot more harm than good. Not really sure of his agenda.

[Kenswing]

and also a relatively new user name if not mistaken.

Used to go by Avacado or something like that. Totally incapable of any objectivity when it comes to the developer.

[John Mayes]

Used to go by Avacado or something like that. Totally incapable of any objectivity when it comes to the developer.

Right! Will never answer a direct question. Just accuses everyone of working for the Developer if challenged.

[Altavia]

Did I see Sumter Counter property tax fees will be the lowest in history for 2024 mostly thanks to new development?

[Goldwingnut]

Did I see Sumter Counter property tax fess will be the lowest in history fur 2024 mostly thanks to new development?

Yes, the proposed millage rate is the lowest in the county’s history. It is due in part to the development, but also to the continued expansion of the business and industrial sectors. Of course some is also due to effective budgeting practices. Had we not restructured the fire assessment and shifted a significant additional burden to the business sector and kept the old $124 assessment (which only covered about 20% of fire services costs) then the added burden of the overhead from the ambulance services costs would have resulted in about an 18% increase in the property tax bill instead of a decrease to less than the rollback rate.

[ScottFenstermaker]

Just like every other builder in Sumter County, NONE pay a "fire impact fee". Why? Because Sumter County doesn't have a fire impact fee. This assessment change has absolutely nothing to do with impact fees, it is all about the operating costs and the cost increases caused by the increased ambulance service availability that the residents wanted.
Nonsense. Money is fungible. Fire-protection expenses not covered by an impact fee on new development are covered by other taxes. The Developer is by far the biggest builder in Sumter County, and Sumter County has no fire impact fee on new building because of the Developer's control over the County Commission and the almost million dollars he paid to disgraced former State Representative Brett Hage.

[Bill14564]

Nonsense. Money is fungible. Fire-protection expenses not covered by an impact fee on new development are covered by other taxes. The Developer is by far the biggest builder in Sumter County, and Sumter County has no fire impact fee on new building because of the Developer's control over the County Commission and the almost million dollars he paid to disgraced former State Representative Brett Hage.

Rather than rolling out accusations, how about some real data? There was a new fire station built in the Villages not too long ago, where did the funding for that come from? The Sumter County budget is public and online. The VPSD budget is public and online. Follow the money. Show where the funds for that new station came from the Sumter budget and my property tax dollars.

[JGibson]

I wish I would've had some of this information before the IFD vote.
Nobody explained how elected officials would have oversight over the IFD.
Is it possible to bring the IFD vote back in the near future?

[golfing eagles]

Nonsense. Money is fungible. Fire-protection expenses not covered by an impact fee on new development are covered by other taxes. The Developer is by far the biggest builder in Sumter County, and Sumter County has no fire impact fee on new building because of the Developer's control over the County Commission and the almost million dollars he paid to disgraced former State Representative Brett Hage.

Please read Don’s posts and educate yourself

[Mazjaz]

161% increase, Yikes!
I voted against the levy because every where I have live the fire levy ended up cost me way more than $324. Most were $200 to $240 per $100,000 of assessed value. My last home had an assesses value of $360,000 and the fire levy was over $800 annually. I am not complaining about $325.

[brianherlihy]

good money to sleep and go pick up meals

[Bill14564]

TL;DR: A lower millage rate doesn't mean you will pay less; a $200 fee increase looks better than a 25% property tax increase; the IFD would have saved between $100 and $400 on a $400K home, and; even with the increases our VPSD is a good deal.

We have read in here and other places about the smallest millage rate in history, a 7.8% decrease over last year, a rate below the rollback rate, and a fire increase of only 55 cents per day. Definitely sounds good when you put it that way. But is that the whole story or is that just the glass-half-full version?

5.19 mills is the lowest rate in history
Probably true, it's the lowest I have seen.

So I'll be paying 8% less in property tax this year?
Whoa, not so fast. The rollback rate, 5.1974, is the rate at which the county collects the same amount in property tax not counting new construction. How can that work? That works because property values increased. If the county increases my appraised value by 8% and then lowers the tax rate by 8% I pay the same amount and the county collects the same amount.

But did my property increase by 8% over last year?
We won't know until the TRIM notices come out around the end of the month. Last year my appraised value increased 30%. It may not be that high this year but I have to believe 8% would be a minimum.

So I'll be paying the same in property tax this year?
Maybe, maybe not. Those of us with the Homestead Exemption also get the Save Our Homes assessment limitation. For us, our assessments cannot increase more than 3%. I will be paying about 4.8% less in property taxes this year (about $15 for a $300K assessment). But since some of us will be paying less, others will be paying more to make up the difference.

But the millage will be lower than the rollback rate
Looking at past years, it is likely that 5.1974 will be clipped and set at 5.19. This is 0.0074 less than the rollback rate, a little over 0.1% less, about $2 on a $300K assessment.

Then the county is controlling their spending in order to work with the same amount of revenue
No, it isn't that simple. The rollback rate collects the same excluding new construction. There was new construction. The anticipated property tax revenue increased from $95M last year to $101M this year, a 6% increase.

So I'm paying about the same and the county is making due with just a 6% increase in revenue
No, the county collects more than that. This thread started because of an increase in the fire protection fee. That money goes into the general fund too. That revenue increased from $9M last year to $35M this year, a 290% increase. Between the fire protection fee and property taxes, the county collected $104M from the annual tax bill last year. This year they anticipate collecting $136M, a 31% increase. Bottom line, revenue for the general fund is expected to increase from $187M to $214M or a 14% increase.

But the additional $200 was necessary to pay for the new EMS service.
Not according to the study that was used to determine the $323.64 number. The Benesch study went to the trouble of calculating the amount of resources spent on fire protection and the amount of resources spent on EMS. They then used only the fire protection numbers to calculate the $323.64. That isn't to say that some EMS overhead didn't make its way into that number but the majority of the EMS costs are excluded.

Then the additional $200 was necessary because the cost of fire protection increased
Fire protection costs probably did increase over last year but not by 161%! The portion of the fire protection costs that were not covered by the $124 fee came out of the general fund (our property taxes) last year. This year that additional amount has been moved to the non-Ad-Valorem fee.

Then what was the reason for the $200 increase?
In my mind there are two. One, to better represent the true cost of fire protection. The $124 number had not been adjusted in quite some time so a recalculation was needed. $323.64 appears to be closer to the true cost of fire protection. Two, and in my mind this is the more significant, to avoid a 20% to 25% increase in the property tax millage rate. Fire and EMS were going to cost the same next year whether the $124 was increased or not. If it was not increased then the money would have had to come from property taxes. Collecting this from property taxes would have required about a 25% increase in the millage rate. In the past a 25% increase has been detrimental to the careers of the Commissioners who voted for it. A $200 increase, only 55 cents per day, was justifiable and much safer.

But at least we're paying less than we would have with the IFD
Absolutely not! Next year we will be paying $324 plus 1.3 mills for fire protection. For a home with a $400K assessment this comes to $844. Under the IFD the same home would have paid between $430 and $720 (maximum allowed by the IFD law). The IFD would have saved this home at least $100 and might have saved up to $400.

The amount I pay in property tax is fine with me. I believe it might have now increased to the same amount I was paying before I moved but the fire protection is better and I no longer pay state income tax. At $324 the fire protection cost seems reasonable and while I've not had to make use of it, everything I hear says the service is top notch. The glass is definitely at least half full.

Don't try to mislead me by pointing to the small numbers and implying it is a decrease when it is actually an increase. The county is controlling its spending to just a 14% increase over last year. That might be good by some standards but I didn't see a 14% increase in my income over last year. It looks like my payment to the county will increase about 7% which isn't too bad. I still like what I'm getting but don't talk as though I'm paying less when I can see that I'm paying more.
EDIT(1): It was pointed out that the county has grown somewhat in the last year. Part of the 14% is for the additional resources to support the additional roads, homes, and people.


Please, if any of this is incorrect, let me know so I can fix it.

[askcarl]

Bill14564 and Goldwingnut must belong to the Large Cranium Society. My Micro-brain bows before Thee. Thanks for laying these issues out in concise language.

After further review.... I'll pay the 300+ clams to not wade in this pool again.

Carl

[village dreamer]

Wow, my bill will be $323 per year. Nobody talked money when this was going on. Everything was hush hush. All that for fast ambulance service for $323 a year. I'll take a taxi to the hospital, probably be a lot cheaper....and faster.

[tophcfa]

This whole thing has me scratching my head? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not at all against increasing my taxes to improve first response time under the right circumstances, but not the way this was done. First off, it’s not fair to ask taxpayers to vote for anything so ambiguous, basically asking them to approve writing a blank check at their expense. People rightfully expect transparency when being asked to vote for something that effects their finances. If the powers that be could not adequately communicate to voters what they were voting on, then something is either broken or being rushed through way to fast. The vote should have been delayed until they got their act together and could ask the voters to approve something that could be explained with full transparency. Secondly, what’s the point of improving first response time when the patient is just going to get dumped at a one star rated hospital that provides woefully inadequate healthcare? Let’s get there quicker, so we can hurry up and wait for nothing! Based on my unfortunate experience at The Village’s Hospital ER, I would rather get dumped in Lake Sumter next to a couple starving 14 foot alligators than the ER in the Villages. At least my pain and suffering would end quickly.

On the other hand, if a plan was put together, with clear and transparent details, that outlined a way to get Villagers in need quickly to a good hospital, such as the institutions in Gainesville, I would definitively strongly consider supporting it.

On a final note, I want to give a strong shout out of support and thanks to the many Village’s residents who make the neighborhood defibrillator program work. Now there is something that can save lives.

[DARFAP]

The wording in the notification received says the $324 is the maximum increase for FY23-24 and is the maximum that can be imposed without further notice in future FYs.

[Goldwingnut]

The wording in the notification received says the $324 is the maximum increase for FY23-24 and is the maximum that can be imposed without further notice in future FYs.

That is customary wording, what it means is that the rate will be set at the maximum approved rate. If it were needed to be raised in the future it will have to be approved at a public hearing as what is happening on the 22nd. If the maximum rate were to be set above the required funding rate (say $400 and similar higher rates for commercial properties) then the following year(s) the rates could be raised if necessary to any level up to the maximum approved rates without additional public hearings being held.

[kkingston57]

It hasn't been increased in 17 yrs.

If it had been incrementally raised ~$11/yr, would anyone be up in arms about an outrageous increase to provide an any moment life or death service?

Good point in your 1st line

[Bill14564]

Reports are the BoCC voted 3-2 not to accept the proposal to raise the fire impact fee to 323.64 and change the way it was assessed on commercial properties. This takes about $25M out of the county budget and if not replaced, will mean $12.5M decrease to both VPSD and SCFEMS. So what happens now?

Possibility 1: Increase property taxes 25% to make up the $25M. To anyone with a taxable value over $150,000 this would result in you paying more than if the $323.64 passed. NOTE: This option may not be available to the BoCC. Since this would be a tax increase it may trigger a requirement for public notice and a public hearing. There might not be enough time left to have the hearing and have the budget in place by October.

Possibility 2: Underfund the departments by $12.5M each. This is over 25% of the VPSD budget and nearly 50% of the SCFEMS budget. What could possibly go wrong?

Possibility 3 (Unlikely): With something like 75% of the homes in the county within the boundaries of the Villages, they *could* split the $10M remaining after the cuts 75/25 and cut the VPSD by only $10M rather than $12.5M. This seems unlikely since it means a new way of allocating the fees and would cut SCFEMS even more.

Possibility 4: Lessen the impact to the departments by reducing other items in the budget. $25M comes out of the entire budget but not all out of the VPSD and SCFEMS lines.

My guess: Share the pain. Increase taxes but not by 25% - an historically dangerous number with an election coming up. Reduce VPSD and SCFEMS funding but not by the entire $25M - after all, do we really need the best service with the best ratings? And, reduce other items in the county budget - there a lot of lines to look at.

In my mind we are now zero for two on the fire department issue. We should have voted for the IFD rather than following those that admitted they were arguing against it only because they didn't understand it. We should have encouraged the BoCC to vote for this $200 increase so the departments could be fully funded without raising our taxes. Neither happened. Now we *need* to be concerned with the future of the VPSD.

There is a lot of expense in paying for the management of two services; millions of dollars could be saved if VPSD and SCFEMS were combined under one chain. There is a lot of expense in outfitting two separate services. There are eight stations in our small corner of the county and only eight (?) more covering the rest of county; some amount could be saved by combining the two and sharing the equipment. There is a lot of "us vs. them" sentiment in the county, particularly over roads and fire protection. Combining the two services would go a long way towards soothing that sentiment. There would be considerable savings and improved goodwill if the two services were combined. We *need* to be concerned with the future of the VPSD.

I want to keep the VPSD while also keeping my taxes low. I am concerned that is not the direction we are heading.

[kingofbeer]

The business owners such as medium-sized business owners T&D Concrete opposed this. They would have paid their fair share. My understanding is that under the present system, business owners pay the same amount as a homeowners do. I think this is unfair and should be changed. Basing it on the square footage of the business seems to be right. T&D was mad, because he has over 10,000 feet of square footage.

[Stu from NYC]

The business owners such as medium-sized business owners T&D Concrete opposed this. They would have paid their fair share. My understanding is that under the present system, business owners pay the same amount as a homeowners do. I think this is unfair and should be changed. Basing it on the square footage of the business seems to be right. T&D was mad, because he has over 10,000 feet of square footage.

Sun keeps talking about percentage increase for business never giving the dollar amount.

One person quoted will have to give up their home as they cannot afford a $ 200 increase.

Guess their editor has no clue that opinions belong in the editorial page.

[Bill14564]

The business owners such as medium-sized business owners T&D Concrete opposed this. They would have paid their fair share. My understanding is that under the present system, business owners pay the same amount as a homeowners do. I think this is unfair and should be changed. Basing it on the square footage of the business seems to be right. T&D was mad, because he has over 10,000 feet of square footage.

As I understand it, you are correct. It is possible that the Lofts at Brownwood, in their entirety, pay $124 for fire protection because they represent one property. The same for the Grand Traverse shopping center - one property, one $124 fee. I don't know that $0.53 per sqft was fair (I pay much less than that) but it was a start.

In the end, that ship has sailed. No IFD, no new fee structure, just a $25M hole to fill.

[kingofbeer]

That is outrageous and unfair to homeowners.

[Rainger99]

Reports are the BoCC voted 3-2 not to accept the proposal to raise the fire impact fee to 323.64 and change the way it was assessed on commercial properties. This takes about $25M out of the county budget and if not replaced, will mean $12.5M decrease to both VPSD and SCFEMS. So what happens now?

Possibility 1: Increase property taxes 25% to make up the $25M. To anyone with a taxable value over $150,000 this would result in you paying more than if the $323.64 passed.

Possibility 2: Underfund the departments by $12.5M each. This is over 25% of the VPSD budget and nearly 50% of the SCFEMS budget. What could possibly go wrong?

Possibility 3 (Unlikely): With something like 75% of the homes in the county within the boundaries of the Villages, they *could* split the $10M remaining after the cuts 75/25 and cut the VPSD by only $10M rather than $12.5M. This seems unlikely since it means a new way of allocating the fees and would cut SCFEMS even more.

Possibility 4: Lessen the impact to the departments by reducing other items in the budget. $25M comes out of the entire budget but not all out of the VPSD and SCFEMS lines.

My guess: Share the pain. Increase taxes but not by 25% - an historically dangerous number with an election coming up. Reduce VPSD and SCFEMS funding but not by the entire $25M - after all, do we really need the best service with the best ratings? And, reduce other items in the county budget - there a lot of lines to look at.

In my mind we are now zero for two on the fire department issue. We should have voted for the IFD rather than following those that admitted they were arguing against it only because they didn't understand it. We should have encouraged the BoCC to vote for this $200 increase so the departments could be fully funded without raising our taxes. Neither happened. Now we *need* to be concerned with the future of the VPSD.

There is a lot of expense in paying for the management of two services; millions of dollars could be saved if VPSD and SCFEMS were combined under one chain. There is a lot of expense in outfitting two separate services. There are eight stations in our small corner of the county and only eight (?) more covering the rest of county; some amount could be saved by combining the two and sharing the equipment. There is a lot of "us vs. them" sentiment in the county, particularly over roads and fire protection. Combining the two services would go a long way towards soothing that sentiment. There would be considerable savings and improved goodwill if the two services were combined. We *need* to be concerned with the future of the VPSD.

I want to keep the VPSD while also keeping my taxes low. I am concerned that is not the direction we are heading.

Why does the Fire Department have a special assessment? Is there a special assessment for police, schools, libraries, roads, recreation, etc.?

I would think that the Fire Department is an essential service and should come out of the general budget and not be based on a special assessment.

The Sumter County Fire Chief said that this will result in a $12 million shortfall in a $24 million budget and the he will have to lay off 30 firefighters and abandon plans to hire 27 more employees. If we just had the revenue from last year ($124 per house), it doesn't seem like costs have gone up that much that we have to have such drastic measures.

[Bill14564]

Why does the Fire Department have a special assessment? Is there a special assessment for police, schools, libraries, roads, recreation, etc.?

I would think that the Fire Department is an essential service and should come out of the general budget and not be based on a special assessment.

The Sumter County Fire Chief said that this will result in a $12 million shortfall in a $24 million budget and the he will have to lay off 30 firefighters and abandon plans to hire 27 more employees. If we just had the revenue from last year ($124 per house), it doesn't seem like costs have gone up that much that we have to have such drastic measures.

The schools have taxing authority. There is a separate line on your yearly bill for school tax. The others, I don't know.

Sure, take the money out of the general fund. That's my Possibility 1 above.

We all paid much more than $124 for fire protection last year. $124 was the assessment (and it turns out the assessment was way too low) but the amount transferred from the general fund to VPSD and the amount spent by SCFEMS was much greater than what the $124 brought in.

Costs have gone up. As more stations are added in the VPSD, more employees need to be hired. Wages have increased. Inflation has increased costs across the board. The VPSD pays management fees to the District and those have gone up. It looks like the VPSD budget increased by about 30% and the SCFEMS budget increased by about 50% over last year.

The VPSD budget is part of the VCCDD budget and can be found on the districtgov.org page. The SCFEMS budget is part of the Sumter County budget and can be found on the county webpage.

[LuvtheVillages]

I would think that the Fire Department is an essential service and should come out of the general budget and not be based on a special assessment.

The Sumter County Fire Chief said that this will result in a $12 million shortfall in a $24 million budget and the he will have to lay off 30 firefighters and abandon plans to hire 27 more employees. If we just had the revenue from last year ($124 per house), it doesn't seem like costs have gone up that much that we have to have such drastic measures.

Yes, fire dept costs have gone up a lot:
1. MANY more houses in the south end of The Villages.
2. New fire stations built in the south of TV to serve those houses
3. New this year and affecting both departments, fire department is now responsible for ambulance services.

The businesses paying $124 for their large properties was a sweetheart deal that they have enjoyed for too long. I regret that the BOCC was not able to stand up for the homeowners who elected them.

Does anyone know the names of the Commissioners who voted against this? I would like to remember them at the next election.

[Rainger99]

Yes, fire dept costs have gone up a lot:
1. MANY more houses in the south end of The Villages.
2. New fire stations built in the south of TV to serve those houses
3. New this year and affecting both departments, fire department is now responsible for ambulance services.

The businesses paying $124 for their large properties was a sweetheart deal that they have enjoyed for too long. I regret that the BOCC was not able to stand up for the homeowners who elected them.

Does anyone know the names of the Commissioners who voted against this? I would like to remember them at the next election.

Commissioner Don Wiley, Commissioner Roberta Ulrich, and Commissioner Andrew Bilardello opposed it.



County Chairman Craig Estep and Commissioner Jeffrey Bogue voted for the increase.

[twoplanekid]

According to my 2023 trim notice that I received from Sumter county, my taxes would be $100 less than 2022 if no budget change is made or $100 more than my 2022 taxes if proposed budget change is made. This change either way is still much less that the increases in water rates that are/will take place in the NSCUDD's CSU operations area.

[spk7951]

The business owners such as medium-sized business owners T&D Concrete opposed this. They would have paid their fair share. My understanding is that under the present system, business owners pay the same amount as a homeowners do. I think this is unfair and should be changed. Basing it on the square footage of the business seems to be right. T&D was mad, because he has over 10,000 feet of square footage.

Current system of $124 is not fair to homeowners. Would be nice to hear T&D say they have a better idea to not cost firefighters/emt's their jobs would will not be good for the county.

[Normal]

I’m glad this thing died. A campground owner would have had a tax bill for this “great” idea for almost a half million dollars.

We know The Villages would have had a taxable amount untold of in most circles, but tens of millions just for the square footage were available.

[Bill14564]

I’m glad this thing died. A campground owner would have had a tax bill for this “great” idea for almost a half million dollars.

We know The Villages would have had a taxable amount untold of in most circles, but tens of millions just for the square footage were available.

I'd like to know more about that campground. Looking at one of the RV parks near here, they were assessed on about 20% of their area. Don't know if that was some equation for RV parks or if they have only developed 20% of their land for use in the business.

In any case, to get an assessment of $490,000 (I saw that number somewhere) at $0.53/sq ft that works out to be 925,000sq ft. If that was an RV park and assessed on only 20% of the land then that would be a 100acre RV park. $490,000 is a lot of money but a 100acre (4.3M sq ft) business is a fairly large business.

It bothers me that (IF I AM CORRECT) Grand Traverse plaza pays exactly the same $124 that I do. This 100acre RV park would also pay $124 (or possibly $248 if it is actually two parks). The residential properties appear to be subsidizing the commercial properties.

But, I also recognize that $0.539/sq ft is a very large number. At $323.64 a 2,000sq ft home would pay about $0.16/sq ft. Perhaps the proposal shifted the pendulum too far to the other side.

[Bilyclub]

I’m glad this thing died. A campground owner would have had a tax bill for this “great” idea for almost a half million dollars.

We know The Villages would have had a taxable amount untold of in most circles, but tens of millions just for the square footage were available.

There was no confirmation of this other than what the campground owner claimed. Also using the excuse that she is busy only during snowbird season has nothing to do with this.

[Normal]

I'd like to know more about that campground. Looking at one of the RV parks near here, they were assessed on about 20% of their area. Don't know if that was some equation for RV parks or if they have only developed 20% of their land for use in the business.

In any case, to get an assessment of $490,000 (I saw that number somewhere) at $0.53/sq ft that works out to be 925,000sq ft. If that was an RV park and assessed on only 20% of the land then that would be a 100acre RV park. $490,000 is a lot of money but a 100acre (4.3M sq ft) business is a fairly large business.

It bothers me that (IF I AM CORRECT) Grand Traverse plaza pays exactly the same $124 that I do. This 100acre RV park would also pay $124 (or possibly $248 if it is actually two parks). The residential properties appear to be subsidizing the commercial properties.

But, I also recognize that $0.539/sq ft is a very large number. At $323.64 a 2,000sq ft home would pay about $0.16/sq ft. Perhaps the proposal shifted the pendulum too far to the other side.


I still wonder what The Villages would have paid. Their sales, design and retail sections alone equated to more than anyone else.

[Babubhat]

Remember who approved this and boot them. Cut the landscaping, it’s out of control.

Managers look for cost savings everyday. ABC, always be cutting

[LuvtheVillages]

I’m glad this thing died. A campground owner would have had a tax bill for this “great” idea for almost a half million dollars.

We know The Villages would have had a taxable amount untold of in most circles, but tens of millions just for the square footage were available.

I find the campground owner's statement confusing. I was under the impression that businesses would be charged 53 cents/sq foot for their buildings. This person seems to be calculating 53 cents/sq foot on their land???

Doesn't matter now, but which was it?

[kansasr]

As I understand it, you are correct. It is possible that the Lofts at Brownwood, in their entirety, pay $124 for fire protection because they represent one property. The same for the Grand Traverse shopping center - one property, one $124 fee. I don't know that $0.53 per sqft was fair (I pay much less than that) but it was a start.

In the end, that ship has sailed. No IFD, no new fee structure, just a $25M hole to fill.

Looking at the TRIM notice for the Lofts at Brownwood, their fire assessment would go from $124 to $84,146.

[Rainger99]

I find it amazing that no one can explain this. Everyone is confused!

[Bill14564]

I find it amazing that no one can explain this. Everyone is confused!

What is it that no one can explain?

[Keefelane66]

I’m sure you’ll see the firehouses doing informational picketing to tell everyone how bad it will become SOON.

[kingofbeer]

I think this landowner was confused and just stirring up problems at the meeting. It should be based on building square footage.

[kingofbeer]

that seems reasonable to me. Should be at least $324 times the number of rental units or more.

[twoplanekid]

:icon_wink:Looking at the TRIM notice for the Lofts at Brownwood, their fire assessment would go from $124 to $84,146.

In trying to look up the Lofts at Brownwood on the Sumter County Tax Collector site, I found this record.

TaxSys - Sumter County Tax Collector (https://sumter.county-taxes.com/public/tangible/parcels/CPG08D009-21/bills/57536?parcel=d27b393c-2b93-11ec-9441-005056b98e38#parcel)

Is this the total bill for the complete complex including all of the units?

Maybe not as there seems to be many records to search through such as the following ->

Just a moment... (https://qpublic.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=1207&LayerID=36374&PageTypeID=4&PageID=13872&Q=643373559&KeyValue=G08D009)

Account Summary — - TaxSys - Sumter County Tax Collector (https://sumter.county-taxes.com/public/real_estate/parcels/G08D009/bills?parcel=d3cc68f0-e508-11eb-a109-005056b98e38&qid=00f09f27ba44797a9b82e61a469cf5e9)

And, I don't believe I will pay for confidential records at this point in time.:icon_wink:

[Rainger99]

What is it that no one can explain?

The fire department issue.

I think it started with the vote last November. I have read many comments on the board and I have spoken to many of my neighbors. No one seems to understand the impact of passing the referendum last year or the impact of not passing it.

I don't believe anyone has explained why the fire fighting costs are going up so dramatically. The Sumter County Fire Chief claims that failure to pass the $200 increase will cause a $12 million shortfall in his $24 million budget and that he will have to lay off 30 fireman. Was there no shortfall last year? What was the budget last year? The Villages Public Safety Department will lose 57 new positions and will have to disband the hazardous materials team and his budget will be cut from $34.5 million to $20 million.

If the referendum had passed last November, would the budgets have then been balanced without the $200 increase? If so, where would the money have come from?

The latest census figures for Sumter County show a population of about 135,000.

Did anyone on the board work as a fireman or on their city's budget committee? What is the average cost of a fire department in a town of 135,000?

[charlie1]

I'd like to know more about that campground. Looking at one of the RV parks near here, they were assessed on about 20% of their area. Don't know if that was some equation for RV parks or if they have only developed 20% of their land for use in the business.

In any case, to get an assessment of $490,000 (I saw that number somewhere) at $0.53/sq ft that works out to be 925,000sq ft. If that was an RV park and assessed on only 20% of the land then that would be a 100acre RV park. $490,000 is a lot of money but a 100acre (4.3M sq ft) business is a fairly large business.

It bothers me that (IF I AM CORRECT) Grand Traverse plaza pays exactly the same $124 that I do. This 100acre RV park would also pay $124 (or possibly $248 if it is actually two parks). The residential properties appear to be subsidizing the commercial properties.

But, I also recognize that $0.539/sq ft is a very large number. At $323.64 a 2,000sq ft home would pay about $0.16/sq ft. Perhaps the proposal shifted the pendulum too far to the other side.

I agree! I also thought they went too high. The current system is unfair to the homeowners and I know the commissioners would like to correct this but there proposal was not thoroughly thought thru and was just too large of a leap!

[Bogie Shooter]

Remember who approved this and boot them. Cut the landscaping, it’s out of control.

Managers look for cost savings everyday. ABC, always be cutting

What does landscaping have to do with county taxes?:confused::confused:

[Bill14564]

The fire department issue.

I think it started with the vote last November. I have read many comments on the board and I have spoken to many of my neighbors. No one seems to understand the impact of passing the referendum last year or the impact of not passing it.

I don't believe anyone has explained why the fire fighting costs are going up so dramatically. The Sumter County Fire Chief claims that failure to pass the $200 increase will cause a $12 million shortfall in his $24 million budget and that he will have to lay off 30 fireman. Was there no shortfall last year? What was the budget last year? The Villages Public Safety Department will lose 57 new positions and will have to disband the hazardous materials team and his budget will be cut from $34.5 million to $20 million.
- The SCFEMS budget for last year was about $19M and this year they asked for $28M.
- The new assessment and structure would bring in $35M but now, changing it back to the old amount and old structure, it will only bring in about $10M
- The $25M difference will likely be split evenly between the two departments, $12.5M each.
- Taking $12.5M from the SCFEMS budget will leave $15.5M which is about $3.5M LESS than last year.
- Announcing layoffs may only be an attempt to frighten the citizens but with expenses going up and income going down by $3.5M, the SCFEMS has to do something.

The VPSD will lose the same $12.5M but because their budget had a larger increase this year, even losing that amount they will have a little more than last year. Perhaps their proposed increase was to cover the hiring of additional staff which will not happen now.

It was the SCFEMS chief who mentioned the HazMat team.

If the referendum had passed last November, would the budgets have then been balanced without the $200 increase? If so, where would the money have come from?
If the IFD referendum has passed we would not have received notice about the $323.64 and the VPSD would not be involved with this. The IFD referendum locked in our fee at $124 and funded the VPSD out of the IFD. The VPSD would not have been part of the BoCC budget at all.

Now, SCFEMS would have been greatly affected but that's a larger discussion with more math.

The latest census figures for Sumter County show a population of about 135,000.

Did anyone on the board work as a fireman or on their city's budget committee? What is the average cost of a fire department in a town of 135,000?
That I do not know.

[Normal]

- The SCFEMS budget for last year was about $19M and this year they asked for $28M.
- The new assessment and structure would bring in $35M but now, changing it back to the old amount and old structure, it will only bring in about $10M
- The $25M difference will likely be split evenly between the two departments, $12.5M each.
- Taking $12.5M from the SCFEMS budget will leave $15.5M which is about $3.5M LESS than last year.
- Announcing layoffs may only be an attempt to frighten the citizens but with expenses going up and income going down by $3.5M, the SCFEMS has to do something.

The VPSD will lose the same $12.5M but because their budget had a larger increase this year, even losing that amount they will have a little more than last year. Perhaps their proposed increase was to cover the hiring of additional staff which will not happen now.

It was the SCFEMS chief who mentioned the HazMat team.


If the IFD referendum has passed we would not have received notice about the $323.64 and the VPSD would not be involved with this. The IFD referendum locked in our fee at $124 and funded the VPSD out of the IFD. The VPSD would not have been part of the BoCC budget at all.

Now, SCFEMS would have been greatly affected but that's a larger discussion with more math.


That I do not know.
I imagine there is a mix of some volunteer fire stations and some regular city fire stations in that demographic. The obvious skew for the Villages is age vs volunteerism. A “healthy candidate” may not be dependable enough to meet physical qualifications for a satisfactory length of time. Therefore a volunteer fire department is most certainly out of the question if anything just on the factor of reliability of the required physical ability.

[Kenswing]

Is everyone forgetting that VPSD added 12 new ambulances and the county is adding a similar number? This was in response to the citizen’s dissatisfaction with the private ambulance company’s response time. Our fire departments gave us what we demanded. Did you think that all of that new equipment and the crews to man it was going to be free? Now since we didn’t approve the IFD don’t be surprised if they roll both departments under the control of the county. Would that be a bad thing? Only time will tell.

[Rainger99]

- The SCFEMS budget for last year was about $19M and this year they asked for $28M.
- The new assessment and structure would bring in $35M but now, changing it back to the old amount and old structure, it will only bring in about $10M.

If the budget was $19 million last year and we change it back to the old amount and old structure, why do we only bring in $10 million?? Where did the extra $9 million go?

[LuvtheVillages]

Looking at the TRIM notice for the Lofts at Brownwood, their fire assessment would go from $124 to $84,146.

So $84,146 divided by $323 .50 is 260 apartments. How many units are in The Lofts?

[Bill14564]

If the budget was $19 million last year and we change it back to the old amount and old structure, why do we only bring in $10 million?? Where did the extra $9 million go?

The SCFD budget last year was $19M. It was funded by about $4.5M from the fire assessment plus $14.5M from property taxes.

The $124 assessment brought in a little over $9M. With more homes built since last July, the $124 assessment might bring in $10M this year.

The $28M request this year would have been made up of $17.5M from the $323 fee plus $10.5M from property taxes. Now that the fee will be only $124 and bring in only $10M the SCFEMS will receive $15.5M which is $3.5M less than last year.

This is all dependent on the BoCC doing nothing to correct the situation. It is highly likely that they will find some way to fund SCFEMS to at least the same level as last year.

[Altavia]

Maybe I'm confused, fire departments need to be funded one way or another.

A few hundred people unwilling to pay an extra dollar a day to support our fire department, show up to a meeting and the BOCC overrules the voters without an alternate solution?

[Happydaz]

Maybe I'm confused, fire departments need to be funded one way or another.

A few hundred people unwilling to pay an extra dollar a day to support our fire department, show up to a meeting and the BOCC overrules the voters without an alternate solution?

You bring up a good point. Homeowners were to see the fire assessment jump from $124 to $324. This was not really that large an increase in our overall county taxes as we have a reduction this upcoming year in our regular county taxes on our homes. People were panicked into showing up at the meeting worrying about the fire fee increase. The fact was that a great deal of the money was coming from the commercial side. That is why we had editorials and news articles in The Daily Sun.

[Normal]

The whole funding system needs redone. Sumter county only has one major metro player, Wildwood. Wildwood provides police services in the southern end of the Villages, but also scoops up tax dollars for it. They could or should provide all fire services for south of 44. The county shouldn’t be the main player in any of that area.

This leaves the central and northern Villages to figure out something. They should still be getting services from the county. The sheriff should be supplying law enforcement and a county sponsored fire system should be in place.

We are a growing region that has to align, but hasn’t yet.

[Goldwingnut]

So much conjecture and misinformation here. I’ve spent countless hours writing emails and talking to residents and businesses alike on this topic in the last 3 weeks. I don’t intend to get into a long debate here but I will give you a few facts to clear up some of the misinformation the is most important and confused.

1) very few people pay only $124 for fire protection. $124 only covered about 25% of the total cost of operating the combined fire departments, the balance came from the general fund. The fire departments operations costs represent about 30% of the total general fund budget expenditures. The primary source of funding for the general fund is your county property tax - the county tax line item, not of the entire bill you receive. So about 30% of the county tax line item goes to also funding the fire departments. What does this work out to on an individual basis? Last year for my courtyard villa it is 30% of $1239.81 + $124 or about $496. For a commercial property - we’ll look at the Lofts in Brownwood, last tears County Property tax was $151803, so 30% of that is about $45,540 going to fund the fire departments + the $124 or $45665. This is the same for every property in the county. I did say a few only pay $124, these are smaller properties where the value of the property is low and their county property tax is zero because exemptions, such as homestead, reduce the tax to zero so all they pay is $124.

2) the primary source of the increase is due to the increase in ambulance capacity that was demanded by the residents 2 years ago. I guess the assumption was that someone was going to pay for this new service. Yes, there was some growth factored into this, but this organic growth in the budget was directly offset by the increased revenues received from these properties ($124 + 30% as described above). Funding for building new stations is funded separately.

3) the proposed fire assessment can only be used for fire protection/prevention operating costs, not for advanced life support (ambulance service) or building new fire stations. Basically what was done was that the 30% previously discussed was moved from the general fund out to the Fire Assessment, hence the large increase, and then the cost for ambulance service was added to the general fund offsetting the previous fire expense reduction. Government accounting can be tedious, money is moved between funding sources and the general fund and back out again to funds designated for specific expenditures, this is all done to provide accountability and the ability to follow the money trail. The net result of all of this could be summed up as saying the fire assessment increase is a result of the added ambulance service.

4) impact fees cannot fund this additional cost. Impact fees are a one time fee on new growth that can only be used for adding additional capacity to the fee’s targeted expenditures. Sumter County only has a road impact fee, so it can only be used for adding new roads or increasing capacity of existing roads that are directly impacted by the growth. We could implement a fire impact fee, but that could only be used for expanding fire capacity - new fire stations and trucks, etc. Impact fees cannot be used to offset operating costs. The operating costs - road maintenance, fire station staffing costs, etc. - cannot be funded using impact fees. This requires the question to be asked, if we collect and spend these impact fees on project X, will project X generate sufficient additional tax revenues to offset its annual operating cost? Impact fees are not recurring revenues, they are one time. Some have tried to compare Sumter County impact fees to other counties, it’s not an apples to apples comparison because each county had difference needs and designations for its impact fees. Sumpter County’s unique demographic and building requires do not, at this time, additional impact fees being levied, but even this is scheduled for its 5-year review in the upcoming fiscal year for Sumter County.

These are just a few of the key points on this issue, it is much more involved than most realize. This is what you’ve elected the county officials to understand, evaluate, and make the difficult decisions on.

I could spend the rest of the day typing here on this topic, but I have a busy day ahead of me. I, the other County Commissioners, and the county staff are willing to talk and meet with residents on this and other matters, you can arrange a call or meeting by contacting the county office main number found at Sumtercountyfl.gov.

[Goldwingnut]

The whole funding system needs redone. Sumter county only has one major metro player, Wildwood. Wildwood provides police services in the southern end of the Villages, but also scoops up tax dollars for it. They could or should provide all fire services for south of 44. The county shouldn’t be the main player in any of that area.

This leaves the central and northern Villages to figure out something. They should still be getting services from the county. The sheriff should be supplying law enforcement and a county sponsored fire system should be in place.

We are a growing region that has to align, but hasn’t yet.

I would recommend you attending the Sumter County Resident Academy and get a little more understanding on how things work in Sumter County and follow that up with the Villages Resident Academy to understand The Villages.

[Rainger99]

The whole funding system needs redone. Sumter county only has one major metro player, Wildwood. Wildwood provides police services in the southern end of the Villages, but also scoops up tax dollars for it. They could or should provide all fire services for south of 44. The county shouldn’t be the main player in any of that area.

This leaves the central and northern Villages to figure out something. They should still be getting services from the county. The sheriff should be supplying law enforcement and a county sponsored fire system should be in place.

We are a growing region that has to align, but hasn’t yet.

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

[Normal]

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

We had an accident about a month ago on Meggison near the Leesburg/Lake County border, but in Sumter. The Wildwood police and fire engines were the first on the scene. I’m not sure if the fire department itself was Wildwood? Law enforcement definitely was. They had been giving out citations on Meggison. Speeders have become a major issue. Many cars are traveling at Mach speed between 6-8 am on the road.

[Goldwingnut]

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

2 fire service - Village Public Safety Department (VPSD) and Sumter County Fire and EMS (SCFEMS)
1 - VPSD
2 - VPSD
3 - SCFEMS
4 - SCFEMS

on your scenario #3, there are a few small outlying areas adjacent to The Villages that are not a part of The Villages that are also serviced by VPSD, but these are the exceptions and not very common.

[Bill14564]

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

There are two services in Sumter County. One is Sumter County Fire and EMS (SCFEMS) and the other is the Villages Public Safety Department (VPSD).

The simplest way of thinking about it: If you are within the outline of the Villages then VPSD will be called. If you are outside the outline of the Villages then SCFEMS will be called.

There is a map on page 17 of this VPSD presentation (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/18369?fileID=43743) (looks to be from 2021 or so) that shows the service area of the VPSD. Anything outside that area but within Sumter County is handled by SCFEMS.

[brianherlihy]

well all new beds for all and better food

[JGibson]

Having 2 fire departments is a convoluted mess.

And to quote “We painted ourselves into a corner” sums it up

[Normal]

Having 2 fire departments is a convoluted mess.

And to quote “We painted ourselves into a corner” sums it up

Agreed. One has to ask if it is “The Villages” as a separate entity or city, or are we associated more with the link like Leesburg or Wildwood? The conflation is confusing. I know we just got our warning shot tax letter (for fanning the flames at the Everglades meeting), and the statement demonstrated that Wildwood got a good chunk of local tax change. Both municipalities get their cut of the pie and collect enforcement fines etc. What should their roles be if they are getting taxpayer income? The locus of services and control seems macro when getting funds, yet micro when convenient.

Eventually we should equilibrate as an Ocala Marion County setup like Lady Lake and The Villages in Sumter?

[Jack58033]

Didn't this political organization win a forty million suit for our neighbors in the historical side? Maybe its an organization that we should consider joining.

[Rainger99]

Eventually we should equilibrate as an Ocala Marion County setup like Lady Lake and The Villages in Sumter?

How are they set up??

[Pairadocs]

Have not seen or heard anything regarding. What is the new amount they are seeking?

WOW, watch your mail for your notice. Already go ours.... talk about inflation ! How many more things, taxes, fuel, electricity, food, water, can go up at this rate ? Really has us worried in a serious way.

[Normal]

I wonder what our Municipality taxes go towards? Wildwood charges St. Catherine, Hawkins, Cason Hammock and Citrus Grove residents 2.287. If it isn’t used for fire, what is the continuing tax used for? On top of that there is a county MSBU tax. Do the services just overlap and you get what you get?

[Stu from NYC]

I wonder what our Municipality taxes go towards? Wildwood charges St. Catherine, Hawkins, Cason Hammock and Citrus Grove residents 2.287. If it isn’t used for fire, what is the continuing tax used for? On top of that there is a county MSBU tax. Do the services just overlap and you get what you get?

Notice how they complicate everything as much as they can to make it hard for us taxpayers to totally understand where our money goes.

[Rainger99]

On top of that there is a county MSBU tax. Do the services just overlap and you get what you get?


https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/17454?fileID=41435

[Goldwingnut]

Notice how they complicate everything as much as they can to make it hard for us taxpayers to totally understand where our money goes.

Thank the state and federal governments for that, they make all the accounting rules that complicate the process.

[Happydaz]

What I find hard to understand is why the study done by an outside organization wasn’t explained better. This study our commissioners had done and paid for had homeowners paying a little over $320 per residence and businesses paying per square foot. I looked up other counties and that is what they do. Examples are Lake and Orange Counties. Even Fort Lauderdale does this. As areas become more populated and metropolitan they need to raise larger amounts for fire fees.

[Bill14564]

What I find hard to understand is why the study done by an outside organization wasn’t explained better. This study our commissioners had done and paid for had homeowners paying a little over $320 per residence and businesses paying per square foot. I looked up other counties and that is what they do. Examples are Lake and Orange Counties. Even Fort Lauderdale does this. As areas become more populated and metropolitan they need to raise larger amounts for fire fees.

What wasn't explained well in the study?

[Happydaz]

What wasn't explained well in the study?

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

[Rainger99]

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

Pretty good explanation of how Lake County does it!

https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/Fire/Fire-Assessment

[Bill14564]

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

I doubt that explanation would have made a difference to the residents who did not want to pay an additional $200 or to the businesses that did not want to pay anything more than $124.

It is good information but to those who wanted to see a $0 increase it would only be rationalization. (Heck, most didn't read the study anyway)

[kkingston57]

161% increase, Yikes!

Agree % increase is high. New cost around $330. Had not been raised in years.

[kkingston57]

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

Good ?s and I bet some of us have more. Problem is that there is too much overlap in TV. Too much time bickering about this < $17 a month "increase" especially when a lot of residents were complaining about wait times for EMS and fire. Can' have your cake and eat it too.

[ton80]

I doubt that explanation would have made a difference to the residents who did not want to pay an additional $200 or to the businesses that did not want to pay anything more than $124.

It is good information but to those who wanted to see a $0 increase it would only be rationalization. (Heck, most didn't read the study anyway)


The cart is in Front of the Horse
Before we argue who pays what and how, we need to know and agree what the required expenditures are. I have not seen any public document that addresses why the very large cost and personnel increases are justified. This is something that the Sumter County Commissioners need to review and address.

1. Budget Review and Personnel Planning
There is a need for a fundamental review of why the two Fire Districts/entities need some 50 million dollars more and many more firefighting personnel to serve Sumter Co. I have not seen any discussion on this topic and I believe it is the starting point and the fundamental issue.

2. How To fund The Approved Plan and Budget
This is what the study addressed and looking at how other Counties/Districts financed their budgets is instructive and provides a comparison to Sumter County approach. It appears to me that Sumter County lays the burden more heavily on the homeowner compared to Businesses. Why should the Lofts, for example, only pay the same as any single home owner and not much more since the Lofts have many housing units. Lake County spreads out the cost in a more equitable way.

Looking back at the discussions regarding the Independent Fire District discussions and vote, I believe that the IFD was not approved since there was no indication of how the Sumter County Budget would be revised. It is time to have it all out in the open and explained clearly IMHO.

[Normal]

The county commissioners could pay for all this by raising the impact fees of the developer to what they should be. The Villages Developer pays only 40 percent of the cost of new roads and nothing for other infrastructure like fire, law enforcement.etc. Perhaps they are getting breaks because of the schools they have donated etc?

What is spectacular to me is how all this wasn’t delineated for the public and set forth in the up till midnight meeting. Wasn’t a company supposed to research the proposals? Wasn’t the research report thorough enough? All the commissioners should have voted no. Kudos to those who did. How are we even getting inputs that RV park owners would have paid almost a half million in taxes per year? Does that seem fair and right to anyone?

What really needs to happen is a lined expenditure report submitted by the fire department and a centralized plan for implementing sound funding for the needs of the department.

[Bill14564]

The county commissioners could pay for all this by raising the impact fees of the developer to what they should be. The Villages Developer pays only 40 percent of the cost of new roads and nothing for other infrastructure like fire, law enforcement.etc. Perhaps they are getting breaks because of the schools they have donated etc?

See item 4) in post #132 for information on impact fees. This fee is for recurring costs, not what impact fees are used for.

What is spectacular to me is how all this wasn’t delineated for the public and set forth in the up till midnight meeting. Wasn’t a company supposed to research the proposals? Wasn’t the research report thorough enough? All the commissioners should have voted no. Kudos to those who did. How are we even getting inputs that RV park owners would have paid almost a half million in taxes per year? Does that seem fair and right to anyone?

There is a study that explains the rate structure. It was presented to the Commissioners and presumably their questions were answered.

The $490,000 charge to the RV park is not believable. That *might* be the combined fee plus property tax but without more information we can`t know.

What really needs to happen is a lined expenditure report submitted by the fire department and a centralized plan for implementing sound funding for the needs of the department.

Detailed budgets can be found on the VCCDD page and the Sumter County page for any who want to look.

[Goldwingnut]

So much conjecture and misinformation here. I’ve spent countless hours writing emails and talking to residents and businesses alike on this topic in the last 3 weeks. I don’t intend to get into a long debate here but I will give you a few facts to clear up some of the misinformation the is most important and confused.

1) very few people pay only $124 for fire protection. $124 only covered about 25% of the total cost of operating the combined fire departments, the balance came from the general fund. The fire departments operations costs represent about 30% of the total general fund budget expenditures. The primary source of funding for the general fund is your county property tax - the county tax line item, not of the entire bill you receive. So about 30% of the county tax line item goes to also funding the fire departments. What does this work out to on an individual basis? Last year for my courtyard villa it is 30% of $1239.81 + $124 or about $496. For a commercial property - we’ll look at the Lofts in Brownwood, last tears County Property tax was $151803, so 30% of that is about $45,540 going to fund the fire departments + the $124 or $45665. This is the same for every property in the county. I did say a few only pay $124, these are smaller properties where the value of the property is low and their county property tax is zero because exemptions, such as homestead, reduce the tax to zero so all they pay is $124.

2) the primary source of the increase is due to the increase in ambulance capacity that was demanded by the residents 2 years ago. I guess the assumption was that someone was going to pay for this new service. Yes, there was some growth factored into this, but this organic growth in the budget was directly offset by the increased revenues received from these properties ($124 + 30% as described above). Funding for building new stations is funded separately.

3) the proposed fire assessment can only be used for fire protection/prevention operating costs, not for advanced life support (ambulance service) or building new fire stations. Basically what was done was that the 30% previously discussed was moved from the general fund out to the Fire Assessment, hence the large increase, and then the cost for ambulance service was added to the general fund offsetting the previous fire expense reduction. Government accounting can be tedious, money is moved between funding sources and the general fund and back out again to funds designated for specific expenditures, this is all done to provide accountability and the ability to follow the money trail. The net result of all of this could be summed up as saying the fire assessment increase is a result of the added ambulance service.

4) impact fees cannot fund this additional cost. Impact fees are a one time fee on new growth that can only be used for adding additional capacity to the fee’s targeted expenditures. Sumter County only has a road impact fee, so it can only be used for adding new roads or increasing capacity of existing roads that are directly impacted by the growth. We could implement a fire impact fee, but that could only be used for expanding fire capacity - new fire stations and trucks, etc. Impact fees cannot be used to offset operating costs. The operating costs - road maintenance, fire station staffing costs, etc. - cannot be funded using impact fees. This requires the question to be asked, if we collect and spend these impact fees on project X, will project X generate sufficient additional tax revenues to offset its annual operating cost? Impact fees are not recurring revenues, they are one time. Some have tried to compare Sumter County impact fees to other counties, it’s not an apples to apples comparison because each county had difference needs and designations for its impact fees. Sumpter County’s unique demographic and building requires do not, at this time, additional impact fees being levied, but even this is scheduled for its 5-year review in the upcoming fiscal year for Sumter County.

These are just a few of the key points on this issue, it is much more involved than most realize. This is what you’ve elected the county officials to understand, evaluate, and make the difficult decisions on.

I could spend the rest of the day typing here on this topic, but I have a busy day ahead of me. I, the other County Commissioners, and the county staff are willing to talk and meet with residents on this and other matters, you can arrange a call or meeting by contacting the county office main number found at Sumtercountyfl.gov.

So obviously this post was a waste of my time. Many keep going on and on with their misinformation without trying to get the facts, only believing what they want to believe.

I’ve had my head buried in the county budgets for the last 5 years, this past year every more so. I’ve presented you with the facts based on years of experience of reviewing these budgets. I have not agenda here beyond sharing facts with all of you. If it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad, I’m indifferent as long as it’s factual.

Do I like where I live? Absolutely! The villages is an incredible community and Sumter County could not possibly be any better in my opinion. Some think I have some bias for the village or think I receive some kind of compensation from them, neither is true. But I do have an affinity for a job well done. I worked 20 years in commercial construction, as a project manager for a majority of that time, to manage a project on a scale such as this is a testament to their ability. When it’s good I let you know and when it’s bad I don’t hesitate to let loose with both barrels.

Generally I try to be positive, if you want negativity the pseudo-news site and Nextdoor are where you should go.

I’ve received the developer’s ire on more than a few occasions over my videos, the stuff I reveal, and sharing my opinion, I stopped caring long ago what they think of me.

Deal with facts and not speculation and innuendo and enjoy life a little more.

[Bilyclub]

I had no qualms about paying the increased fee and loved that the businesses were going to pay their fair share. But.... apparently the businesses, ( T & D and Galaxy), that do a lot of work for the developer launched a campaign to deep six the increase. Since the Daily Sun was involved in this campaign you would have to think that all of this had the developer's blessing. When in Oz remember who is behind the curtain.

[Bill14564]

I had no qualms about paying the increased fee and loved that the businesses were going to pay their fair share. But.... apparently the businesses, ( T & D and Galaxy), that do a lot of work for the developer launched a campaign to deep six the increase. Since the Daily Sun was involved in this campaign you would have to think that all of this had the developer's blessing. When in Oz remember who is behind the curtain.

Not the first time this has happened and probably won't be the last. Need some good ideas to counter it the next time.

[tophcfa]

Too much time bickering about this < $17 a month "increase" especially when a lot of residents were complaining about wait times for EMS.

Why worry about response times for EMS when the result is that the patient is ultimately going to get dumped at a dismal one star rated hospital with quite possibly the worst ER in the entire country. I don’t get the “hurry up and get there so we can wait seemingly forever for woefully substandard health care” mentality? Residents would have been better served saving money and keeping the old ambulance servive until someday (hopefully) when there is a place worth being rushed to!

[kansasr]

So obviously this post was a waste of my time. Many keep going on and on with their misinformation without trying to get the facts, only believing what they want to believe.

I’ve had my head buried in the county budgets for the last 5 years, this past year every more so. I’ve presented you with the facts based on years of experience of reviewing these budgets. I have not agenda here beyond sharing facts with all of you. If it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad, I’m indifferent as long as it’s factual.

Do I like where I live? Absolutely! The villages is an incredible community and Sumter County could not possibly be any better in my opinion. Some think I have some bias for the village or think I receive some kind of compensation from them, neither is true. But I do have an affinity for a job well done. I worked 20 years in commercial construction, as a project manager for a majority of that time, to manage a project on a scale such as this is a testament to their ability. When it’s good I let you know and when it’s bad I don’t hesitate to let loose with both barrels.

Generally I try to be positive, if you want negativity the pseudo-news site and Nextdoor are where you should go.

I’ve received the developer’s ire on more than a few occasions over my videos, the stuff I reveal, and sharing my opinion, I stopped caring long ago what they think of me.

Deal with facts and not speculation and innuendo and enjoy life a little more.

I for one want to say that this was not a waste of time, you managed to clarify some things that I wasn't aware of!

I did not realize that in last year's budget the $124 fire assessment only covered a small portion of the $35 million for the 2 fire districts and the balance came out of the general fund. I always felt it was unfair that I was paying the same fire assessment as Walmart, but now that I see that was only a small portion of the expense, commercial buildings are indeed paying more of a fair share. In the proposed budget, the general county assessment is being DECREASED, from 5.59 to 5.19.

The biggest challenge faced by the county commission is the VERY large increase in the fire budget, primarily from The Villages fire district, which has a proposed increase of almost 100 percent (from $17,934,640 last year to $34,636,054). We asked for a greatly improved ambulance service and this apparently is the price for that request. From looking at the budget, it would appear that the commission just received a lump sum request from the Villages fire district, as there wasn't a detailed breakdown as there was from the fire district for the rest of the county (which, by the way, had a modest increase from $18,884,269 to $24,240,265).

So where do we go from here? The commission has some difficult decisions. First, deciding how much we actually want to pay for improved service. If we want to keep these proposed funding levels, the money has to come from somewhere. If we keep the old system, do we apply a moderate increase to the $124 assessment per lot and increase the county assessment above and beyond the previous year? Or do we implement something like the new proposed system, where the fire assessment actually reflects the total cost of the services?

I'm not sure we pay our commissioners enough for these kinds of decisions!

[LuvtheVillages]

The cart is in Front of the Horse
Before we argue who pays what and how, we need to know and agree what the required expenditures are. I have not seen any public document that addresses why the very large cost and personnel increases are justified. This is something that the Sumter County Commissioners need to review and address.

1. Budget Review and Personnel Planning
There is a need for a fundamental review of why the two Fire Districts/entities need some 50 million dollars more and many more firefighting personnel to serve Sumter Co. I have not seen any discussion on this topic and I believe it is the starting point and the fundamental issue.

2. How To fund The Approved Plan and Budget
This is what the study addressed and looking at how other Counties/Districts financed their budgets is instructive and provides a comparison to Sumter County approach. It appears to me that Sumter County lays the burden more heavily on the homeowner compared to Businesses. Why should the Lofts, for example, only pay the same as any single home owner and not much more since the Lofts have many housing units. Lake County spreads out the cost in a more equitable way.

Looking back at the discussions regarding the Independent Fire District discussions and vote, I believe that the IFD was not approved since there was no indication of how the Sumter County Budget would be revised. It is time to have it all out in the open and explained clearly IMHO.

So clearly you have not been paying attention to the news and you have not read the preceding posts.

Are you not aware that the 2 fire departments are taking over the ambulance service for the entire county, that they have to purchase ambulances and equipment and hire people?

And don't you know that the fire fee only pays a portion of the fire department costs. It also is a significant portion of our property tax payment. In fact, I think we should consider eliminating the fire fee and have it totally covered by the property tax.,

[Goldwingnut]

I for one want to say that this was not a waste of time, you managed to clarify some things that I wasn't aware of!

I did not realize that in last year's budget the $124 fire assessment only covered a small portion of the $35 million for the 2 fire districts and the balance came out of the general fund. I always felt it was unfair that I was paying the same fire assessment as Walmart, but now that I see that was only a small portion of the expense, commercial buildings are indeed paying more of a fair share. In the proposed budget, the general county assessment is being DECREASED, from 5.59 to 5.19.

The biggest challenge faced by the county commission is the VERY large increase in the fire budget, primarily from The Villages fire district, which has a proposed increase of almost 100 percent (from $17,934,640 last year to $34,636,054). We asked for a greatly improved ambulance service and this apparently is the price for that request. From looking at the budget, it would appear that the commission just received a lump sum request from the Villages fire district, as there wasn't a detailed breakdown as there was from the fire district for the rest of the county (which, by the way, had a modest increase from $18,884,269 to $24,240,265).

So where do we go from here? The commission has some difficult decisions. First, deciding how much we actually want to pay for improved service. If we want to keep these proposed funding levels, the money has to come from somewhere. If we keep the old system, do we apply a moderate increase to the $124 assessment per lot and increase the county assessment above and beyond the previous year? Or do we implement something like the new proposed system, where the fire assessment actually reflects the total cost of the services?

I'm not sure we pay our commissioners enough for these kinds of decisions!

Thank you!
Just one clarification, VPSD presented a detailed breakout budget to the BOCC, the increase was greater than SCFEMS because
a) they have more ambulances than SCFEMS therefore greater costs involved,
b) they were expanding and adding 2 additional fire stations so staffing and operating costs were increasing for both fire protection and ambulance - the cost of the two new fire stations is not in their proposed budget, this is covered by the $4.08/month ($50/yr) that is included in the Amenity Fee Villagers pay each month that is now earmarked for capital improvements greater than $10,000.

The County staff, fire departments, and BOCC have some difficult decisions to make in the next few weeks. A lot of progress has been made since Tuesday evening's meeting towards overcoming this huge budget shortfall and softening the blow of this decision.

Several scenarios and strategies are being looked at for FY25 for funding the county fire department costs, these are still in the preliminary stages of discovery, one thing is very apparent at this point of all possible strategies, there is no "Someone Else" that is going to pay for this service.

Two years ago, the residents asked for better service, they got it.
Now residents have asked not to have to pay for this additional service, they got it.
Every decision has consequences so be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

[tophcfa]

Why worry about response times for EMS when the result is that the patient is ultimately going to get dumped at a dismal one star rated hospital with quite possibly the worst ER in the entire country. I don’t get the “hurry up and get there so we can wait seemingly forever for woefully substandard health care” mentality? Residents would have been better served saving money and keeping the old ambulance servive until someday (hopefully) when there is a place worth being rushed to!

I have never quoted my own post before, but I am now because I am baffled that no one has responded to it. My post highlights the huge elephant in the room that appears to be invisible. Apparently everyone is living in some kind of make believe fantasy world where response time actually matters? Why is everyone burying their heads in the sand and demanding faster service when there is a much bigger problem?

I get it that fixing The Village’s health care system is beyond the scope of both Villagers and the county commissioners, but increasing ambulance response time solves nothing as long as the much much much bigger problem exists! Efforts that actually do make a real difference, like the neighborhood defibrillator program, should be the focus of attention.

[Altavia]

...

[tophcfa]

Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt...

Better to recognize reality and act accordingly than to ignore reality and act like a fool…

[Randall55]

Why worry about response times for EMS when the result is that the patient is ultimately going to get dumped at a dismal one star rated hospital with quite possibly the worst ER in the entire country. I don’t get the “hurry up and get there so we can wait seemingly forever for woefully substandard health care” mentality? Residents would have been better served saving money and keeping the old ambulance servive until someday (hopefully) when there is a place worth being rushed to! Right! The Villages Hospital is sub-par. But, the ambulance service has life saving equipment manned by professional paramedics. With most emergencies, time is of the essence. Once you are stabilized, you can transfer to a hospital of your choosing. It is not imperative to stay at the Villages hospital.

If you find you despise the Villages hospital, move to another part of the Villages that is closer to a hospital that meets your standards. Everyone must fight their own battles and live with the choices they make.

[golfing eagles]

I have never quoted my own post before, but I am now because I am baffled that no one has responded to it. My post highlights the huge elephant in the room that appears to be invisible. Apparently everyone is living in some kind of make believe fantasy world where response time actually matters? Why is everyone burying their heads in the sand and demanding faster service when there is a much bigger problem?

I get it that fixing The Village’s health care system is beyond the scope of both Villagers and the county commissioners, but increasing ambulance response time solves nothing as long as the much much much bigger problem exists! Efforts that actually do make a real difference, like the neighborhood defibrillator program, should be the focus of attention.

You don’t think response time is important?? Yeah, OK. Just hope you don’t have a cardiac arrest. Or better yet a stroke where the window of opportunity to use thrombolytic therapy is about an hour

[Bilyclub]

Since things have branched off a little... It is ironic that a place with a good number of very active healthy seniors has some of the worse healthcare options in the country. Would a better system allow us to remain active longer or when a major health incident happens is that the end ?

[tophcfa]

You don’t think response time is important?? Yeah, OK. Just hope you don’t have a cardiac arrest. Or better yet a stroke where the window of opportunity to use thrombolytic therapy is about an hour

Well Doc, excuse me for having absolutely zero confidence in the Village’s Hospital. When you show up at the ER on your death bed in need of critical care, you wait in total agony for over 12 hours to ultimately get misdiagnosed, prescribed medication that does nothing to help your condition, get booted out the door after midnight to drive yourself home and die, and then get billed for the horrific experience, that will happen.

When I got to a real hospital in Gainesville the triage person took one look at me, put me in a room where a team of Doctors immediately evaluated me, and admitted me to critical care within minutes. If my wife didn’t drive about 1,360 non-stop miles south to pick me up and drag me to Gainesville, I would be dead now thanks to the Village’s Hospital. So yes, I’m not on board with first response time mattering when the patient is going to get dumped at the Villages Hospital.

[Kenswing]

Well Doc, excuse me for having absolutely zero confidence in the Village’s Hospital. When you show up at the ER on your death bed in need of critical care, you wait in total agony for over 12 hours to ultimately get misdiagnosed, prescribed medication that does nothing to help your condition, get booted out the door after midnight to drive yourself home and die, and then get billed for the horrific experience, that will happen.

When I got to a real hospital in Gainesville the triage person took one look at me, put me in a room where a team of Doctors immediately evaluated me, and admitted me to critical care within minutes. If my wife didn’t drive about 1,360 non-stop miles south to pick me up and drag me to Gainesville, I would be dead now thanks to the Village’s Hospital. So yes, I’m not on board with first response time mattering when the patient is going to get dumped at the Villages Hospital.
We get it. You had a bad experience at The Villages Hospital. I’m sorry you had to go through what you did. But not everyone had the same experience you did. There are people that praise the treatment they received. Hijacking every thread you can to knock the hospital isn’t going to make it any better. Living in a community where the population is growing faster than the available medical services are is always a gamble. I hope you’re able to move on from this.

[Bill14564]

Since things have branched off a little... It is ironic that a place with a good number of very active healthy seniors has some of the worse healthcare options in the country. Would a better system allow us to remain active longer or when a major health incident happens is that the end ?

It might not be ironic at all; the large percentage of seniors in the population might be part of the reason for the healthcare options.

A lot of seniors means a lot of payments by medicare. If medicare truly does pay less than private insurance then that means less income for doctors who stay in this area. There are likely other factors in play (such as having three large cities close by) but it seems like this might play a part.

[JGibson]

Well Doc, excuse me for having absolutely zero confidence in the Village’s Hospital. When you show up at the ER on your death bed in need of critical care, you wait in total agony for over 12 hours to ultimately get misdiagnosed, prescribed medication that does nothing to help your condition, get booted out the door after midnight to drive yourself home and die, and then get billed for the horrific experience, that will happen.

When I got to a real hospital in Gainesville the triage person took one look at me, put me in a room where a team of Doctors immediately evaluated me, and admitted me to critical care within minutes. If my wife didn’t drive about 1,360 non-stop miles south to pick me up and drag me to Gainesville, I would be dead now thanks to the Village’s Hospital. So yes, I’m not on board with first response time mattering when the patient is going to get dumped at the Villages Hospital.

You’re comparing a level 1 trauma center to a glorified urgent care. lol.