Progress is slow, but going in the right direction

[CoachKandSportsguy]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

[retiredguy123]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .
Progress? So, they collected $38 million, but how much did they spend to collect it? The IRS annual budget is about $14 billion. $38 million is only 0.27 percent of their budget.

[Battlebasset]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

If we would just work to simplify the tax code this would become more difficult, and we would need less IRS (which costs money) to track it down.

I would also be in favor of a national sales tax if it would result in lower income tax rates and simplification. But it wouldn't, and we need look no further than Europe for how that would work.

[retiredguy123]

If we would just work to simplify the tax code this would become more difficult, and we would need less IRS (which costs money) to track it down.

I would also be in favor of a national sales tax if it would result in lower income tax rates and simplification. But it wouldn't, and we need look no further than Europe for how that would work.
A national sales tax will never happen because the 50 percent of people who pay no income tax would need to start paying taxes.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Progress? So, they collected $38 million, but how much did they spend to collect it? The IRS annual budget is about $14 billion. $38 million is only 0.27 percent of their budget.

but the $14 billion is already in the budget and paid for, the $38 M is incremental, so 100% profit. .

$38 Million approximately is a decimal dust % of the federal budget, but increased policing and a few jail sentences will help compliance of the marginal brazen folks, and then increase collections. . .

the title still remains proper

[Keefelane66]

A national sales tax will never happen because the 50 percent of people who pay no income tax would need to start paying taxes.
The less one makes a greater percentage of income would be paid with national sales tax than a person of wealth

[dewilson58]

Thank God I'm 176.

:MOJE_whot:

[Stu from NYC]

but the $14 billion is already in the budget and paid for, the $38 M is incremental, so 100% profit. .

$38 Million approximately is a decimal dust % of the federal budget, but increased policing and a few jail sentences will help compliance of the marginal brazen folks, and then increase collections. . .

the title still remains proper

The real question is how efficient is the IRS in collecting taxes. Think the vast majority would say not very.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The real question is how efficient is the IRS in collecting taxes. Think the vast majority would say not very.

True, however, within the constraints of funding and directives, not sure. .
There can be some constraints which prevents efficiency/effectiveness. .

not worth my time for figure out gov't inefficiencies. .

[retiredguy123]

True, however, within the constraints of funding and directives, not sure. .
There can be some constraints which prevents efficiency/effectiveness. .

not worth my time for figure out gov't inefficiencies. .
Obviously, there are constraints placed on the IRS. If there weren't, you would see thousands of cash businesses, like restaurants, construction, and landscaping companies with undocumented workers, shut down every day. In some areas of the country, it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. All you would need to do is to show up and ask to see the FICA wage and tax records for the employees on site. Apparently, the IRS is told to leave these businesses alone.

[manaboutown]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

Over 60% of US households pay no federal income tax; lots of freeloaders, "What me worry" types.

Increasing Share of U.S. Households Paying No Income Tax (https://taxfoundation.org/us-households-paying-no-income-tax/)

I wonder if any of this magnificent sum was collected from Al Sharpton who last I heard owed $4.5M which would be much, much more now with penalties and interest?

[Stu from NYC]

We should all pay at least something. Sad that the tax code has written that so many have no care about taxes since they do not pay.

Infuriating that sharpton got away with being a tax cheat.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

We should all pay at least something. Sad that the tax code has written that so many have no care about taxes since they do not pay.

Infuriating that sharpton got away with being a tax cheat.

IRS is federal, the states collect local taxes in the form of real estate and sales tax.

People who don't owe federal still pay state taxes in the form of a rent payment and sales taxes. .

I am not opposed to the zero federal taxes, as its a form of a subsidiary. .

[Stu from NYC]

IRS is federal, the states collect local taxes in the form of real estate and sales tax.

People who don't owe federal still pay state taxes in the form of a rent payment and sales taxes. .

I am not opposed to the zero federal taxes, as its a form of a subsidiary. .

Thought the thread was about the IRS which is a federal operation. That was what I was talking about.

[mickey100]

A national sales tax will never happen because the 50 percent of people who pay no income tax would need to start paying taxes.

Like all the big corporations that make a fortune in profits and pay no tax?

[Papa_lecki]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

That’s a rounding error in the federal budget.

[Stu from NYC]

Like all the big corporations that make a fortune in profits and pay no tax?

The tax system has been out of control for many years.

[Woodbear]

Over 60% of US households pay no federal income tax; lots of freeloaders, "What me worry" types.

Increasing Share of U.S. Households Paying No Income Tax (https://taxfoundation.org/us-households-paying-no-income-tax/)

I wonder if any of this magnificent sum was collected from Al Sharpton who last I heard owed $4.5M which would be much, much more now with penalties and interest?

Our Founding Fathers were prophetic in many ways, I so wished they limited voting to those that pay taxes. It is so hard to compete against any politician that offers to give away free stuff. Nobody hates Santa and he never comes in 2nd!

[rsmurano]

This is before they raise the budget for 87000 more irs agents for $8.5B cost.

[Janie123]

A national sales tax will never happen because the 50 percent of people who pay no income tax would need to start paying taxes.
the “Fair Tax” is a national sales tax on steroids and has been bouncing around congress for about 10 years now. It replaces ALL taxes the federal government takes in and includes a rebate to all house holds up to the poverty level for the tax they pay on good and services. This tax also replaces payroll taxes which anyone that works a legitimate job pays including the employer. Even the federal gas tax goes away with the fair tax. For retirees, all capital gain taxes goes away as well as RMDs. I’ve read a few books on it and can’t find a whole lot of cons and lots of pros… including abolishing the IRS.

[Cobullymom]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .
A drop in the bucket of the billions this government wastes, means nothing...The unchecked government spending is the problem...Not the citizens.

[retiredguy123]

the “Fair Tax” is a national sales tax on steroids and has been bouncing around congress for about 10 years now. It replaces ALL taxes the federal government takes in and includes a rebate to all house holds up to the poverty level for the tax they pay on good and services. This tax also replaces payroll taxes which anyone that works a legitimate job pays including the employer. Even the federal gas tax goes away with the fair tax. For retirees, all capital gain taxes goes away as well as RMDs. I’ve read a few books on it and can’t find a whole lot of cons and lots of pros… including abolishing the IRS.
LOL. It sounds good to me, but it would have zero chance of ever becoming a law.

[ThirdOfFive]

A drop in the bucket of the billions this government wastes, means nothing...The unchecked government spending is the problem...Not the citizens.
True that. I'd also add "unchecked government spending on pork", AKA vote buying and playing fast and loose with Joe Taxpayer's nickel.

Had an interesting situation UpNort some years back. An expressway was being built to replace a particularly onerous stretch of two-lane road. Minnesota is notorious for taking forever to complete highway projects and this one was no exception. It finally got done about early May one year. However that year was an election year and the road wasn't open for traffic until October. Big deal: media, cameras and of course the Congressional Rep. for that district was there taking all the credit. Though it was strenuously denied at the time, word had it that the opening was held off until October for precisely that reason.

There is far too little accountability, in my opinion, not just for what that tax nickel is spent on, but how.

[Jazzman]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

The federal government spends $7 million per minute, every hour every day. So this covers spending for six minutes. And I would bet that this news article is overblown and tries to categorize these high income earners as cheaters on their taxes. In all likelihood it most likely was a difference in the understanding or interpretation of complex tax laws between their accountants and the IRS

[retiredguy123]

True that. I'd also add "unchecked government spending on pork", AKA vote buying and playing fast and loose with Joe Taxpayer's nickel.

Had an interesting situation UpNort some years back. An expressway was being built to replace a particularly onerous stretch of two-lane road. Minnesota is notorious for taking forever to complete highway projects and this one was no exception. It finally got done about early May one year. However that year was an election year and the road wasn't open for traffic until October. Big deal: media, cameras and of course the Congressional Rep. for that district was there taking all the credit. Though it was strenuously denied at the time, word had it that the opening was held off until October for precisely that reason.

There is far too little accountability, in my opinion, not just for what that tax nickel is spent on, but how.
That reminds me of an Army general who once asked why a headquarters building design was not completed. He was told that the foundation design would take another 2 months or so. He demanded that it be completed in a week. So, the structural engineers designed a 5 foot thick, solid concrete mat foundation, which cost about 5 times as much as a typical footing design. The building was completed early, but it sat empty for about 8 months after completion.

[SHIBUMI]

Simplify reporting for the wealthy. Create a 5 line tax form for them. Name, SS#, address, occupation, income. Take that income times 33% and thats your tax liability. Billions more will come in and a 6th grader could check it. Its all about too many deductions.
Leave those for the middle class.

[NoMo50]

$38M is chump change. If that money was truly "collected," rather than just listed as a receivable, it is likely those tax cases started many years ago. If the money came from settlements with the taxpayers, the cases were no doubt settled for a fraction of what was actually owed. You and I do not get the option of settling our tax liability for pennies on the dollar. But, if you have an army of lawyers and lobbyists at your disposal...

[retiredguy123]

Simplify reporting for the wealthy. Create a 5 line tax form for them. Name, SS#, address, occupation, income. Take that income times 33% and thats your tax liability. Billions more will come in and a 6th grader could check it. Its all about too many deductions.
Leave those for the middle class.
How would you define income? Would a restaurant that has $1 million in gross sales have to pay $330,000 in taxes?

[Andyhope]

Progress? So, they collected $38 million, but how much did they spend to collect it? The IRS annual budget is about $14 billion. $38 million is only 0.27 percent of their budget.
Wonder if the got anything from Sharpton??? Probably not 😩

[merrymini]

Introduce a VAT tax. Buy high priced item, pay more taxes. Of course, it does not stop government spending like a drunken sailor. That is a other problem.

[MandoMan]

If we would just work to simplify the tax code this would become more difficult, and we would need less IRS (which costs money) to track it down.

I would also be in favor of a national sales tax if it would result in lower income tax rates and simplification. But it wouldn't, and we need look no further than Europe for how that would work.

I wish I could support you on that. Sounds good. But if you look into it, you discover that it falls much more heavily on “hardworking men and women” than on people earning more than a couple million a year. Sales tax only or an income tax with the same percentage for everyone makes the rich smile broadly and applaud. They make so much more than they spend, and so much of it is not classified as income. Meanwhile, those of us who spend most of what we earn would be soaked. The equivalent VAT (Value Added Tax) in the UK is now 20%, plus the other income taxes they pay. Imagine a sales tax only system, and it was, say, 30%. Currently most people have way less than that withheld by the IRS, and lots of low income people get much or most of the withholding refunded. Imagine paying a 30% tax on everything you buy! Instead of 6%, which is bad enough. And of course the state would still need its 6% sales tax.

[Al2014]

If we would just work to simplify the tax code this would become more difficult, and we would need less IRS (which costs money) to track it down.

I would also be in favor of a national sales tax if it would result in lower income tax rates and simplification. But it wouldn't, and we need look no further than Europe for how that would work.
I don't think we want to add ways for them to tax us. The rules are made and then the tax lawyers and investment experts create ways to legally get around them.

[maistocars]

What is their average annual collection rate? Not sure if this is good, average, or low or just a puff piece to boost up something?

[Dlpdo]

Over 60% of US households pay no federal income tax; lots of freeloaders, "What me worry" types.

Increasing Share of U.S. Households Paying No Income Tax (https://taxfoundation.org/us-households-paying-no-income-tax/)

I wonder if any of this magnificent sum was collected from Al Sharpton who last I heard owed $4.5M which would be much, much more now with penalties and interest?

Why do you people think income tax is the only tax worthy of considering that a person pays. Low income people pay a higher percent of their income in taxes than the rich do. There is nothing special about income taxes. People pay many other types of tax.

[Stu from NYC]

Todays Sun had an article about how great the IRS is now doing collecting taxes from a handful of people. Total still a drop in the bucket

Wonder how much of this would have been collected if the IRS was not given additional funds?

[SHIBUMI]

Leave business alone, they drive the economy, strictly personal income tax suggestion, BUT, if small business is the backbone then exempt the first 75,000 in net income or tax them at 10% and not added to personal income.

[bumpa]

Progress? So, they collected $38 million, but how much did they spend to collect it? The IRS annual budget is about $14 billion. $38 million is only 0.27 percent of their budget.

A ridiculous comparison. Surely you don't imagine the entire 14 Billion was spent collecting the 38M.

[Haggar]

the “Fair Tax” is a national sales tax on steroids and has been bouncing around congress for about 10 years now. It replaces ALL taxes the federal government takes in and includes a rebate to all house holds up to the poverty level for the tax they pay on good and services. This tax also replaces payroll taxes which anyone that works a legitimate job pays including the employer. Even the federal gas tax goes away with the fair tax. For retirees, all capital gain taxes goes away as well as RMDs. I’ve read a few books on it and can’t find a whole lot of cons and lots of pros… including abolishing the IRS.

This "fair tax" isn't so fair. The wealthy who make a lot of income put most of their income into investments and the bank. Therefore they would only pay tax on what they "spent" and pay no tax on their investments. This is a scheme to help the rich!

As to the gas tax - this is going to be a problem in the future. With the push towards electric vehicles, hybrids and just more fuel efficient vehicles gas consumption is going to go way down and taxes along with it. Toll roads would partially work to alleviate the problem - so roads like I-95 would need to be converted to a toll road.

All roads supported with the gas taxes would have to be converted - not very practical!

And if payroll taxes go away where are the funds going to come from for medicare and social security?

[retiredguy123]

A ridiculous comparison. Surely you don't imagine the entire 14 Billion was spent collecting the 38M.
Not what I said. But, if they spent $100 million to collect $38 million, I don't consider that money well spent. We are only getting one side of the story.

[Haggar]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .

I'm a working CPA. I see fraud all the time.

I've seen a potential client come in with an $81,000 check paid to his LLC and ask how this income could not be reported. (I sent him away).

I've been asked to file for Employee Retention Credit even though their sales went up. They advised a company advertising on the radio they spoke to said they had a way around this.
(If sales went up quarter to quarter you can't file for the ERC).

Many construction, farm and restaurants have employees paid with cash.

A bill passed last year giving the IRS enough money to hire more employees. Most of this money went to hire replacements for vacant positions or positions coming up through retirement.

A portion of this money was to go into hiring revenue agents for audits. It has been proven that audits recover 3 times the amount spent on audit personnel. There was misinformation spread that all of the money was for audit agents. Just not true.

There is an IRS hotline for CPA. Two or three years ago there was a ten to fifteen hold time before I spoke to an agent. Last week I called - it took three calls to get into the queue. I was told there would be a 30-60 hold time. After one hour thirty minutes I got to talk to someone. Was told they could not help me because another department had not processed the payroll taxes returns sent in two months earlier. I should call back in two to three weeks.

The IRS needs more money- not the reduction in funds the republican are calling for.

[Stu from NYC]

This "fair tax" isn't so fair. The wealthy who make a lot of income put most of their income into investments and the bank. Therefore they would only pay tax on what they "spent" and pay no tax on their investments. This is a scheme to help the rich!

As to the gas tax - this is going to be a problem in the future. With the push towards electric vehicles, hybrids and just more fuel efficient vehicles gas consumption is going to go way down and taxes along with it. Toll roads would partially work to alleviate the problem - so roads like I-95 would need to be converted to a toll road.

All roads supported with the gas taxes would have to be converted - not very practical!

And if payroll taxes go away where are the funds going to come from for medicare and social security?

Silly me thought "income" was subject to tax and than you use after tax funds for investments.

[huge-pigeons]

Simplify reporting for the wealthy. Create a 5 line tax form for them. Name, SS#, address, occupation, income. Take that income times 33% and thats your tax liability. Billions more will come in and a 6th grader could check it. Its all about too many deductions.
Leave those for the middle class.

Why pick on the wealthy? What is wealthy? I’m tired of paying taxes when there are a lot of deadbeats don’t pay any and use/abuse the system much more than we do.
A 10% flat tax should be implemented across the board. If you are lazy but can work, you get no handouts anymore. If you are disabled and can’t work, then you should get something every month. Even if you make $30k a year, you pay 10%.
All illegals don’t get a dime, no free school or health care, or future social security. They need to work.
Illegals have more benefits than the people paying the taxes.

[Stu from NYC]

Why pick on the wealthy? What is wealthy? I’m tired of paying taxes when there are a lot of deadbeats don’t pay any and use/abuse the system much more than we do.
A 10% flat tax should be implemented across the board. If you are lazy but can work, you get no handouts anymore. If you are disabled and can’t work, then you should get something every month. Even if you make $30k a year, you pay 10%.
All illegals don’t get a dime, no free school or health care, or future social security. They need to work.
Illegals have more benefits than the people paying the taxes.

Run for office will get my vote.

[SHIBUMI]

Wealthy is a gross of 1 million per year..........if you cant live on 500,000 or more a year after taxes, there is something wrong with you.
If you make more than god bless you........you have the ability to donate more to the general good that you are stealing from....

[Stu from NYC]

Wealthy is a gross of 1 million per year..........if you cant live on 500,000 or more a year after taxes, there is something wrong with you.
If you make more than god bless you........you have the ability to donate more to the general good that you are stealing from....

If someone makes more than say a million a year they are stealing from the general good? Seriously?

[SHIBUMI]

The Devil is in the details....once the details on how come to light, yes they will be found out

[manaboutown]

Wealthy is a gross of 1 million per year..........if you cant live on 500,000 or more a year after taxes, there is something wrong with you.
If you make more than god bless you........you have the ability to donate more to the general good that you are stealing from....

I guess you are not making a million a year. If you are to what and whom are you donating "the excess"?

[SHIBUMI]

You don't have to donate, just pay your 33% to the people

[MrChipster]

If we would just work to simplify the tax code this would become more difficult, and we would need less IRS (which costs money) to track it down.

I would also be in favor of a national sales tax if it would result in lower income tax rates and simplification. But it wouldn't, and we need look no further than Europe for how that would work.

What part of adding a new tax results in lowering taxes?

[manaboutown]

You don't have to donate, just pay your 33% to the people

Actually it is already 37% + 3.8% Obamacare tax at that level. Duh!

So the parasites want to live on the efforts of the productive? What else is new?

[dougawhite]

Like all the big corporations that make a fortune in profits and pay no tax?

No business pays taxes. Their customers pay whatever taxes the business passes through from state or federal authorities. Increase how much a business is 'taxed' just increases how much more their customers have to pay for the product or service. Don't fool yourself that business taxes is ever a solution to increasing government revenues without impacting you and me.

[PersonOfInterest]

Since I'm retired I'm not making any money so there's no need to pay Taxes. I thought retirement was termed the 'Golden Years' because there's no need to pay taxes. If you die owing Tax that exceeds your estate your tax debt will then be forgiven.

[ffresh]

The tax system has been out of control for many years.

Mainly because the federal government has been "out of control" for many years :swear:

Fred

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Actually it is already 37% + 3.8% Obamacare tax at that level. Duh!
So the parasites want to live on the efforts of the productive? What else is new?

However, if the productive find ways to eliminate labor, both by offshoring or by automation, where will the customer growth come from? How do the customers make a living to buy the products offered?

The end game of capitalizm is monopoly with minimal costs and maximum margin. . if the offering is a product, it is all materials and minimal labor. If the offering is a service, it is minimally qualified and minimally paid labor . .

As technology productivity improved with automation, and more jobs are lost, how does the economy sustain itself? This dilemma has no acceptable answer as the individual corporation has its mandate to its shareholders, and the theoretical answer is that there are always jobs available. . but the answer doesn't always work when there are job skillset mismatched due to the recently unemployed not having the skillset of the open jobs of other skillsets. .

This scenario will just slowly worsen until there is a major event which reset the entire economy from excess to deficits everywhere. . or the corporations are taxed to support UBI to create customers for the products the corporations with minimal domestic employees want to sell. .

FYI, this view is very long term, slowly progressing view of the US economy as technology continues being advanced.

[sloanst]

Yeah, they gotta pay for those 87,000 agents they hired. Once they get done with the wealthy, they'll come after the rich, then they will scam the middle class because they can't afford lawyers. Those that get checks from the treasury will probably get an increase.

[Caymus]

However, if the productive find ways to eliminate labor, both by offshoring or by automation, where will the customer growth come from? How do the customers make a living to buy the products offered?

The end game of capitalizm is monopoly with minimal costs and maximum margin. . if the offering is a product, it is all materials and minimal labor. If the offering is a service, it is minimally qualified and minimally paid labor . .

As technology productivity improved with automation, and more jobs are lost, how does the economy sustain itself? This dilemma has no acceptable answer as the individual corporation has its mandate to its shareholders, and the theoretical answer is that there are always jobs available. . but the answer doesn't always work when there are job skillset mismatched due to the recently unemployed not having the skillset of the open jobs of other skillsets. .

This scenario will just slowly worsen until there is a major event which reset the entire economy from excess to deficits everywhere. . or the corporations are taxed to support UBI to create customers for the products the corporations with minimal domestic employees want to sell. .

FYI, this view is very long term, slowly progressing view of the US economy as technology continues being advanced.

Certain people have been predicting the same thing for at least 100 years. Maybe automation from farming should be banned. That would "create" a lot of jobs.

[M2inOR]

Interesting...

61% of households pay no Federal income taxes.

We always hear about the rich not paying their fair share. No one ever defines "fair share".

I'll offer this definition. Since a majority of the households don't pay any federal income taxes, I guess that majority rules, and fair share is $0.00.

The devil is in the details.

Less than 40% of households pay federal income taxes. Businesses also pay, but again, not all of them.

For the people complaining about businesses and the rich not paying their fair share, how do they defend the fact that a majority of households don't pair anything?

[Marmaduke]

IRS says it collected $38 million from more than 175 high-income tax delinquents | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/irs-tax-treasury-yellen-0b3240e16760753f1ed6479a060a1b2b)

not sure we normal retired people have anything to worry about. .
Did the IRS collect from Al Sharpton who convoluted his non-profit "businesses" with his for profit businesses.

Unpaid Taxes, asserting more than $4.5 million in current state and federal tax "liens" had been taken out against the civil rights activist.
What say the IRS's slow wheels of collection from tax evaders like Al and 1st son?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Certain people have been predicting the same thing for at least 100 years. Maybe automation from farming should be banned. That would "create" a lot of jobs.

it will be no longer about creating jobs. . it will be about creating customers due to lack of high paying jobs. . which is why the number of households aren't paying taxes keeps increasing, and the income tax receipts are falling

[SHIBUMI]

37 to 38% after deductions around 20, 33% is fair to help the parasites they created.........

[Stu from NYC]

However, if the productive find ways to eliminate labor, both by offshoring or by automation, where will the customer growth come from? How do the customers make a living to buy the products offered?

The end game of capitalizm is monopoly with minimal costs and maximum margin. . if the offering is a product, it is all materials and minimal labor. If the offering is a service, it is minimally qualified and minimally paid labor . .

As technology productivity improved with automation, and more jobs are lost, how does the economy sustain itself? This dilemma has no acceptable answer as the individual corporation has its mandate to its shareholders, and the theoretical answer is that there are always jobs available. . but the answer doesn't always work when there are job skillset mismatched due to the recently unemployed not having the skillset of the open jobs of other skillsets. .

This scenario will just slowly worsen until there is a major event which reset the entire economy from excess to deficits everywhere. . or the corporations are taxed to support UBI to create customers for the products the corporations with minimal domestic employees want to sell. .

FYI, this view is very long term, slowly progressing view of the US economy as technology continues being advanced.

Welcome to capitalism a terrible, horrible system but strangely enough there has been no better system created.

People have been worried about jobs being lost since the beginning of the industrial revolution and strangely enough larger middle class than ever before.

Do believe that many and better paying jobs will be created as industrialization continues.

[huge-pigeons]

Who says that somebody should be able to live off of $500,000 a year? What makes somebody declare what is a good living wage? Throughout your life, we all increased our salary each year and most of us changed our lifestyles for the better to correspond to our increase in pay. Nothing wrong with this, you get rewarded for your success. Nobody should tell me what I can make or what I can spend.
Everybody should pay taxes, no matter if you make $20k a yr or you make $1B a yr. Each person should pay a flat tax of 10% and not some higher amount just because you make more. I think Musk paid $6B in taxes a couple years ago and a politician said he needs to pay more: really?
If a millionaire/billionaire pay no taxes because they follow the tax rules, good for them. Everybody has to follow the tax laws and if they find loopholes, then the government needs to plug those loopholes.

[mickey100]

No business pays taxes. Their customers pay whatever taxes the business passes through from state or federal authorities. Increase how much a business is 'taxed' just increases how much more their customers have to pay for the product or service. Don't fool yourself that business taxes is ever a solution to increasing government revenues without impacting you and me.

According to economists, the cost of corporate taxes are usually split between the companies and the customers, so after a tax increase there will be a modest product price increase. You might think that a company can still try to raise prices to totally cover the tax increase , but it won't work. If they do that, their competitors will sell at the true market price, undercutting them and gaining all the customers.This is assuming the company does not have a monopoly. And it also depends on the product. If consumers decide they can't afford the product, they just won't buy it. But studies have shown the opposite is not true. Did consumer prices drop after the 2017 corporate tax rate cut. NO!

[Silver Streak]

The "parasites" several people have referred to DO pay taxes, usually quite a lot of taxes. Just not Federal Income Tax. They pay payroll taxes, if employed. (That FICA thing that comes out of paychecks--and it's substantial--is on top of regular income tax. It funds Social Security and Medicare.) They pay sales tax every time they buy something (which benefits the state they live in). If they own property (even a car), they pay property taxes. They pay gas taxes. Those in lower income brackets actually pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the wealthy do. It's just not Federal Income Tax. There's a reason those in higher tax brackets have money to sock away in savings and investments (with lower tax rates). Those in lower tax brackets often have nothing left over to sock away, even if they're working two full-time (but low-paying) jobs. Are the people mowing your lawn or serving your food or checking you out at the grocery store "parasites"? I don't think so.

[cjrjck]

This "fair tax" isn't so fair. The wealthy who make a lot of income put most of their income into investments and the bank. Therefore they would only pay tax on what they "spent" and pay no tax on their investments. This is a scheme to help the rich!

As to the gas tax - this is going to be a problem in the future. With the push towards electric vehicles, hybrids and just more fuel efficient vehicles gas consumption is going to go way down and taxes along with it. Toll roads would partially work to alleviate the problem - so roads like I-95 would need to be converted to a toll road.

All roads supported with the gas taxes would have to be converted - not very practical!

And if payroll taxes go away where are the funds going to come from for medicare and social security?

Your points would be relevant if not for the fact that the federal government and many states operate in the red every year. And would continue to do so if the scenarios you mention come to fruition. Nothing would change except debt will continue to grow and grow and grow.

[SHIBUMI]

You are exactly correct..........The graduated tax is based on ability to pay and it works. The problem is that the rich overtime convinced congress to create tax loopholes for them so that system doesn't work. The fault is in the system. Its simple as I said, once you make 1 million you pay on the gross 33%, all deductions go away. And you won't need 87,000 workers and you could employ 6th graders to check returns. It works, but the rich control the system and the politicians.

[manaboutown]

"The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 20.1 percent in 2019 to 22.2 percent in 2020 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 38.8 percent to 42.3 percent.
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent."

From: Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation (https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/#:~:text=The%20top%201%20percent%20of%20taxpayers% 20(AGI%20of%20%24548%2C336%20and,the%20bottom%20ha lf%20of%20taxpayers).

[bumpa]

We should all pay at least something. Sad that the tax code has written that so many have no care about taxes since they do not pay.

Infuriating that sharpton got away with being a tax cheat.

He did not "get away with being a tax cheat". This story goes back 10-15 years and most all the money due has been paid back. Sharpton has a net worth of just 500K, well below what most of us are worth.

[justjim]

You can “spin” numbers around and around until you get the answer you think that you want on the subject of more IRS agents. The facts are that more agents would more than pay for the salaries/benefits of any that would be hired.

[retiredguy123]

The "parasites" several people have referred to DO pay taxes, usually quite a lot of taxes. Just not Federal Income Tax. They pay payroll taxes, if employed. (That FICA thing that comes out of paychecks--and it's substantial--is on top of regular income tax. It funds Social Security and Medicare.) They pay sales tax every time they buy something (which benefits the state they live in). If they own property (even a car), they pay property taxes. They pay gas taxes. Those in lower income brackets actually pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the wealthy do. It's just not Federal Income Tax. There's a reason those in higher tax brackets have money to sock away in savings and investments (with lower tax rates). Those in lower tax brackets often have nothing left over to sock away, even if they're working two full-time (but low-paying) jobs. Are the people mowing your lawn or serving your food or checking you out at the grocery store "parasites"? I don't think so.
FICA taxes is not a good example. Lower income earners pay FICA taxes, but when they receive the Social Security and Medicare benefits, it is the high income earners who actually fund the benefits because the low income earners receive a much higher benefit relative to what they pay in taxes. The Social Security income payout schedule greatly favors low income workers in terms of how much they receive in proportion to what they paid in. And, Medicare premiums are based on income, so high income individuals pay much higher premiums for the exact same benefit. They also pay in more during their working years.

The bottom line is that, if you eliminated FICA taxes for everyone, the wealthy would become wealthier, and the poor would become poorer.

[huge-pigeons]

There is no proof of the new irs agents will find more than the billions of $$$ it’s going to cost to hire them. That was a heresy political push to get them on board. There are not 85000 billionaires in this country and I’m not sure how many thousands of people who have hundreds of millions of $$$ for these 85000 agents to go after. Bottom line, they will be going after each of us, not just the super wealthy

[manaboutown]

Are the people mowing your lawn or serving your food or checking you out at the grocery store "parasites"? I don't think so.

Many independent yard care and house cleaners work for cash and pay no taxes on income. Based on their very low reported incomes they frequently receive other subsidies, food stamps (now known as Electronic Benefits Transfer - EBT) Section 8 housing, Obamacare, Medicaid, and so on. Many are quite smart and expert on how to obtain the greatest amount of welfare (which is what subsidies are) from federal, state and municipal government entities. Some are multigenerational in working welfare systems. It is their lifestyle choice, just as it is with many if not most of the homeless.

Most grocery store workers are union I imagine as when I went to work part time at age 14 in 1956 bagging groceries I was forced to join the union and pay it a percentage of my fraction of a dollar hourly wage. Might have been 35 cents per hour. I cannot recall.

[bumpa]

There is no proof of the new irs agents will find more than the billions of $$$ it’s going to cost to hire them. That was a heresy political push to get them on board. There are not 85000 billionaires in this country and I’m not sure how many thousands of people who have hundreds of millions of $$$ for these 85000 agents to go after. Bottom line, they will be going after each of us, not just the super wealthy

I'm not worried because I'm not guilty. Are you?

[Stu from NYC]

He did not "get away with being a tax cheat". This story goes back 10-15 years and most all the money due has been paid back. Sharpton has a net worth of just 500K, well below what most of us are worth.

Google tawana brawley and let me know what kind of person he is.

Never heard that he did pay it back but most people who did what he did would find themselves behind bars for a few years.

[SHIBUMI]

85% of the wealth is owned by 15% of the population..........time to tax them more........just get rid of their deductions.....too simple for all the thinkers

[retiredguy123]

85% of the wealth is owned by 15% of the population..........time to tax them more........just get rid of their deductions.....too simple for all the thinkers
I wish someone would tell me what these deductions are. I pay more in taxes than I spend on everything else combined. I can only claim the standard deduction, nothing else.

[Stu from NYC]

85% of the wealth is owned by 15% of the population..........time to tax them more........just get rid of their deductions.....too simple for all the thinkers

You do realize that those people invest their monies and supply lots of jobs for the rest of us. They also buy a lot of stuff keeping others employed.

[SHIBUMI]

God Bless You!

[SHIBUMI]

Good for them........they should pay their taxes also........

[PersonOfInterest]

There is no 'fair share'. Its a political battle of who can manipulate tax law to their advantage. Care to tell me why churches pay no Tax? What makes them different from any other business? Non profit organizations are Tax exempt also, but with some restrictions and those drawing salaries pay at normal tax rates. It is NOT a fair system, its a politically motivated system.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

There is no 'fair share'. Its a political battle of who can manipulate tax law to their advantage. Care to tell me why churches pay no Tax? What makes them different from any other business? Non profit organizations are Tax exempt also, but with some restrictions and those drawing salaries pay at normal tax rates. It is NOT a fair system, its a politically motivated system.

Churches pay no tax because their profits are supposed to be not for any one’s gain. They give 100% of it away to charity, so they say.

Same goes with non-profits, however, if you want, you could apply for a tax number and you could advertise your non-profit, say for saving lizards or something, and collect all the money people want to give you. There is somewhere it’s posted on how much a particular charity gives away versus how much they keep, but I don’t where it is. Welcome to America!

[Bay Kid]

The IRS should go after all the people getting free money that don't qualify. Lots of cheating going on.

[Stu from NYC]

The IRS should go after all the people getting free money that don't qualify. Lots of cheating going on.

Very true

[retiredguy123]

Churches pay no tax because their profits are supposed to be not for any one’s gain. They give 100% of it away to charity, so they say.

Same goes with non-profits, however, if you want, you could apply for a tax number and you could advertise your non-profit, say for saving lizards or something, and collect all the money people want to give you. There is somewhere it’s posted on how much a particular charity gives away versus how much they keep, but I don’t where it is. Welcome to America!
There two well known charity rating websites, Guidestar and Charity Navigator. On those sites, you can access the IRS Form 990 tax forms that charities are required to file every year. Unfortunately, a charity does not need to be efficient. So, it is perfectly legal for a charity to collect millions of dollars, but only spend a few hundred on their stated mission.

[Stu from NYC]

There two well known charity rating websites, Guidestar and Charity Navigator. On those sites, you can access the IRS Form 990 tax forms that charities are required to file every year. Unfortunately, a charity does not need to be efficient. So, it is perfectly legal for a charity to collect millions of dollars, but only spend a few hundred on their stated mission.

Very often get a call from a so called charity like one supposedly supporting police. I always what percentage goes to help police or their families.

Normal answer is a lot. So I ask for percentage going for expenses and never can get an answer so I just say bye

[Cybersprings]

Why do you people think income tax is the only tax worthy of considering that a person pays. Low income people pay a higher percent of their income in taxes than the rich do. There is nothing special about income taxes. People pay many other types of tax.


Except for the fact that isn't true.

[Cybersprings]

85% of the wealth is owned by 15% of the population..........time to tax them more........just get rid of their deductions.....too simple for all the thinkers

jealous much?

[Cybersprings]

Like all the big corporations that make a fortune in profits and pay no tax?

I am not sure if this idea is drawn from CNN or Marx.
It is like saying that you don't pay taxes on a 401k.
Simply a lie.
Whatever profit a corporation makes goes to someone or something.
It goes to the shareholders, who have to pay taxes on it at some point.
Or it goes to employees, who have to pay taxes on it.
Or it gets reinvested in to the business which most likely increases future profits and probably jobs also.

So saying that corportations make millions/billions without paying any taxes is just the result of lazy logic.

[Cybersprings]

You are exactly correct..........The graduated tax is based on ability to pay and it works. The problem is that the rich overtime convinced congress to create tax loopholes for them so that system doesn't work. The fault is in the system. Its simple as I said, once you make 1 million you pay on the gross 33%, all deductions go away. And you won't need 87,000 workers and you could employ 6th graders to check returns. It works, but the rich control the system and the politicians.

My guess is that you think this works because it is not you paying the lion's share. And if the rich truly controlled the system, they wouldn't be paying the overwhelming portion of the tax burden. It is the politicians who control the system. And the politicians benefit by pleasing the greatest number of people, which increases their odds of re-election. And that is why 60% of households pay nothing.

[Boomer]

There is no 'fair share'. Its a political battle of who can manipulate tax law to their advantage. Care to tell me why churches pay no Tax? What makes them different from any other business? Non profit organizations are Tax exempt also, but with some restrictions and those drawing salaries pay at normal tax rates. It is NOT a fair system, its a politically motivated system.



BINGO!

In my not-so-humble opinion on this one (a hot button for me) — all these churches that are preaching politics from the pulpit should lose their tax-exempt status…..

Many of them are nothing more than political machines, using members as voting tools by keeping them angry and self-righteous and distracted.

Separation of church and state is for a reason. This does not mean we should be a nation of heathens, but c’mon, politics from the pulpit is out of control — and there is no reining it in.

And America pays — in so many, many ways.

Boomer

[Boomer]

I wish someone would tell me what these deductions are. I pay more in taxes than I spend on everything else combined. I can only claim the standard deduction, nothing else.


rg123, I think you can answer this for me……

Are there things in “the regular people” part of the tax law changes that went into effect in 2017 that are set to expire soon?

Seems like I thought that once-upon-a-time — but I am not sure.

I don’t think it has been an advantage to a lot of regular people, other than simplifying record keeping, because there are no deductions for us.

Boomer

[retiredguy123]

rg123, I think you can answer this for me……

Are there things in “the regular people” part of the tax law changes that went into effect in 2017 that are set to expire soon?

Seems like I thought that once-upon-a-time — but I am not sure.

I don’t think it has been an advantage to a lot of regular people, other than simplifying record keeping, because there are no deductions for us.

Boomer
There a several websites that you can Google to get all the details. But, basically, the tax rates will increase and the standard deduction will be cut in half, although part of that will be offset by restoring the personal exemption. These changes will become effective in 2025, unless Congress acts to delay or change things. I don't see anything that "regular people" can do to improve their tax situation. I expect to pay higher taxes in 2025, but the current higher interest rates have greatly increased my interest income.

[Boomer]

There a several websites that you can Google to get all the details. But, basically, the tax rates will increase and the standard deduction will be cut in half, although part of that will be offset by restoring the personal exemption. These changes will become effective in 2025, unless Congress acts to delay or change things. I don't see anything that "regular people" can do to improve their tax situation. I expect to pay higher taxes in 2025, but the current higher interest rates have greatly increased my interest income.


I was being lazy (but I think you probably knew that already) and figured I could just ask you. You saved me from the rabbit hole or helped me put it off, at least. Thanks. :)

I thought there was something. Does not sound good.

And then gotta watch out or IRMAA’s gonna getcha! (sigh)

Boomer

[Cybersprings]

BINGO!

In my not-so-humble opinion on this one (a hot button for me) — all these churches that are preaching politics from the pulpit should lose their tax-exempt status…..

Many of them are nothing more than political machines, using members as voting tools by keeping them angry and self-righteous and distracted.

Separation of church and state is for a reason. This does not mean we should be a nation of heathens, but c’mon, politics from the pulpit is out of control — and there is no reining it in.

And America pays — in so many, many ways.

Boomer

Can I assume that you are also outraged by planned parenthood's tax exempt status since they are constantly preaching from their pulpit and donating to political candidates?

[manaboutown]

Just don't sell the family farm, so to speak. IRMAA will max out, AMT will hit hard, section 1250 property unrecaptured gain will be taxed at regular income rates (up to 25% - not 37%, thankfully) and to top it off Obamacare's 3.8% icing on the cake will finish the job of substantially reducing your net worth. So much for loopholes, bah, humbug!

[Whitley]

The real question is how efficient is the IRS in collecting taxes. Think the vast majority would say not very.

Recent weeks shows us the IRS/DOJ will not put people in jail even if they cheated on millions of dollars of income. That is true isn't it? Does that just apply to certain people?

[Bay Kid]

Just don't sell the family farm, so to speak. IRMAA will max out, AMT will hit hard, section 1250 property unrecaptured gain will be taxed at regular income rates (up to 25% - not 37%, thankfully) and to top it off Obamacare's 3.8% icing on the cake will finish the job of substantially reducing your net worth. So much for loopholes, bah, humbug!

Death Tax is coming back. This is the worse thing possible for family farms/business. Tax on tax until they are no more.