Golf Rules question

[kmspla1952]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)

[dewilson58]

"Local Rules" apply.

1) The 3 foot because it was the closest shot PERIOD.

or

2) The 5 foot because the 3 foot shot was not used and "never existed".

Have seen it both ways.............same with long drive.

[BrianL99]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)

You can't find the "rule", because there isn't one. Scrambles are an unofficial format and the sponsors can make up the rules as they go along. In the specific case, there's an argument both ways: The 3' shot was made by someone in the group and should count for "closest to the pin". The other argument of course, if you didn't "use" that shot for scoring, it didn't really exist.

If I was the referee, I'd come down on the side of the "if it wasn't used, it didn't count".

[patn61]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)
I have run a charity golf tournament for 7 years. We have always played the skill prize holes as individual competition, regardless of whether the team selects to hit from that particular spot on the next shot. But, as already stated, there is no set rule that it must be played that way.

[DonH57]

No certain rule. Team would pick the best shot depending on the strength of the members of the team.

[BrianL99]

No certain rule. Team would pick the best shot depending on the strength of the members of the team.

You misunderstand the question.

[mtdjed]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was the toughest issue you had to deal with every day? Sounds like a local decision. In best ball you wouldn't always think closest to the hole must be used unless that is the local rule. Check with the boss. Go with the flow.

[Paul1934]

As closest to the pin and long drives are “extra contests” within the ‘scramble’ they have in my experience always been stand alone added prizes from the scramble match.

[Papa_lecki]

I have run a charity golf tournament for 7 years. We have always played the skill prize holes as individual competition, regardless of whether the team selects to hit from that particular spot on the next shot. But, as already stated, there is no set rule that it must be played that way.

///

[dewilson58]

No official rule, but it’s this.
If closest to the pin is a new car, the person who hit the shot gets the car, thus individual competition.
Car is not shared.

Closest to the pin wins a car????.......no insurance company would do that.

[BrianL99]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was the toughest issue you had to deal with every day? Sounds like a local decision. In best ball you wouldn't always think closest to the hole must be used unless that is the local rule. Check with the boss. Go with the flow.

"Best Ball" & "Scramble" are 2 separate and distinct formats.

[DonH57]

You misunderstand the question.

No. I'm pretty certain he asked if the ball measured at 3 feet documented as such had to be used by the team. The team can decide whether to use that shot or not. Until someone comes along and lands one 35 inches from the hole his is closest to the pin for the day. There is not existing rule the team must use the closer shot. Most only require at least one tee shot from all four players. Is that not what he asked?

[kmspla1952]

She.

[BrianL99]

No. I'm pretty certain he asked if the ball measured at 3 feet documented as such had to be used by the team. The team can decide whether to use that shot or not. Until someone comes along and lands one 35 inches from the hole his is closest to the pin for the day. There is not existing rule the team must use the closer shot. Most only require at least one tee shot from all four players. Is that not what he asked?

I believe he was asking if the shot that was 36" from the hole counted as "closest to the pin", even if they choose to use the 5' shot as their "Tee Shot" on the hole.

In other words, does using the ball that was 5' away, negate the "Closest to the Pin" shot, that was 3' away.

I suppose the question would be the same, if the situation were on the "Longest Drive" hole. If you don't use that particular drive, is it still the "longest drive"?

Again, there are no official rules for this situation. As someone else mentioned, the "Closest to the Pin" might be an "individual" competition rather than a "team" competition. (As I think about this, I'll bet that somewhere in the marketing or instructions for the tournament, it mentioned "individual prizes" for Closest to the Pin & Longest Drive. I think that would unequivocally answer the question. Whether you use the shot or not, the individual achievement qualifies for the prize.)

It could be interpreted either way, which is one of the many reasons I refuse to play in Scrambles of any sort. There are no real rules and everyone cheats.

[DonH57]

I believe he was asking if the shot that was 36" from the hole counted as "closest to the pin", even if they choose to use the 5' shot as their "Tee Shot" on the hole.

In other words, does using the ball that was 5' away, negate the "Closest to the Pin" shot, that was 3' away.

I suppose the question would be the same, if the situation were on the "Longest Drive" hole. If you don't use that particular drive, is it still the "longest drive"?

Again, there are no official rules for this situation. As someone else mentioned, the "Closest to the Pin" might be an "individual" competition rather than a "team" competition. (As I think about this, I'll bet that somewhere in the marketing or instructions for the tournament, it mentioned "individual prizes" for Closest to the Pin & Longest Drive. I think that would unequivocally answer the question. Whether you use the shot or not, the individual achievement qualifies for the prize.)

It could be interpreted either way, which is one of the many reasons I refuse to play in Scrambles of any sort. There are no real rules and everyone cheats.

Yes. That's true. Different groups have or use different rules for a Best Ball or Scramble. I play in the ones our group do every summer because I like meeting and playing with different people. You are correct about scrambles subject to cheaters. I believe they are referred to as "Sandbaggers"

[sdeikenberry]

I run two championship golf groups. In this exact situation we use the closest to the pin for the CTP winner, and each group chooses which ball they want to putt, regardless of whether it is the actual closest one or not. Our rationale is four balls were hit to the par 3 green, all are in play so any one of them can be chosen as CTP, but the group chooses which one to actually putt to the hole. They don't have to be the same ball in the groups I run.

[mikemalloy]

My understanding of a scramble is that the team members decide which shot for them is best, not the farthest or the closest. On the other hand, closest to the pin has only one interpretation. The contest is not "closest to the pin used as the "
'best' shot". As others have said, they are two separate competitions. So, unless the tournament has a specific rule that the winner of the individual contest is the "closest to the pin tee shot used", the winner of the closest to the pin doesn't have to be a shot that's used by a team.

[txfan]

A CTP only counts if the putt is executed and scored as no worse than par.

Playing another ball instead would deem the shortest location as one that effectively didn't exist.

[Steve]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)

Yes. These are two separate contests. The "closest to the pin" is an individual event within the "scramble" which is a team event. The person who hit that "closest" shot should be rewarded for it, should he win the event. But which putt to hit is a team decision and it's up to the team to decide which shot is most advantageous for them.

[Steve]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was the toughest issue you had to deal with every day? Sounds like a local decision. In best ball you wouldn't always think closest to the hole must be used unless that is the local rule. Check with the boss. Go with the flow.

A little off topic, but:

You are confusing "Best Ball" with "Scramble".

"Best Ball" is when each player plays his own ball all the way through the hole and which ever team member has the lowest score that score is the score for the team.

"Scramble" is where each player hits a shot. Whichever shot has the best result or is most advantageous for the team, each team member takes their next shot from that point, regardless of where their previous shot landed.

[Marine1974]

Not sure if you’re asking about a 4 man scramble or a 4 man best ball ? No I don’t believe you can use the 5 ft putt if you take the 3 ft putt as closest to the pin . Best ball someone would be putting
both balls where as a scramble you would all be putting from the same spot . And be careful where you put the closest to the pin marker/pole as to not
impede another group behind path to the hole on a par 3 . Move it equal distance behind the hole .

[SHIBUMI]

Rule #1-- the Tournament Committee has the right to set local rules for a competition as long as those rules don't break an existing rule of golf.

A scramble is a local rules event. So everyone is right here IF you are the committee. If you are not you are just dust in the wind.

If I were on the committee, I would not allow anything to count that wasn't the ball used. If your on the committee and feel otherwise it is your right under the rules.
The reality here is that the player who hit the 3 foot shot would take credit for it and the team wouldn't tell anybody they used another ball. Golfers, you know!

There is a good read on Amazon Books, Golf Murder Mysteries-Breaking the Rules
There are 9 stories of golfers getting murdered for breaking a rule of golf. Two of the stories occur in the Villages. A fun read. And the guy who lost the closest to the pin to the three foot guy, once he found out the situation, and depending on the value of the prize, could be driven to murder.

Bottom line here is when your running a tournament, you can set some local rules....






"Local Rules" apply.

1) The 3 foot because it was the closest shot PERIOD.

or

2) The 5 foot because the 3 foot shot was not used and "never existed".

Have seen it both ways.............same with long drive.

[dewilson58]

Rule #1-- the Tournament Committee has the right to set local rules for a competition as long as those rules don't break an existing rule of golf.

A scramble is a local rules event. So everyone is right here IF you are the committee. If you are not you are just dust in the wind.

If I were on the committee, I would not allow anything to count that wasn't the ball used. If your on the committee and feel otherwise it is your right under the rules.
The reality here is that the player who hit the 3 foot shot would take credit for it and the team wouldn't tell anybody they used another ball. Golfers, you know!

There is a good read on Amazon Books, Golf Murder Mysteries-Breaking the Rules
There are 9 stories of golfers getting murdered for breaking a rule of golf. Two of the stories occur in the Villages. A fun read. And the guy who lost the closest to the pin to the three foot guy, once he found out the situation, and depending on the value of the prize, could be driven to murder.

Bottom line here is when your running a tournament, you can set some local rules....

I think that's what I said. :oops:

[SHIBUMI]

You were right!!!!!!!! I think that's what I said. :oops:

[Cheapbas]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)

Closest to the pin is an individual award given during a team event. Doesn’t matter what shot you selected to play.

[ThirdOfFive]

Had this happen a few weeks ago. I was lining up a putt on El Diablo and a gust of wind blew the ball backward, striking my putter. Clicking around I found what happens if the wind blows your ball into the hole, off the green, into the water, etc., but nothing about what the ruling is, if the wind blows the ball into your putter.

[dewilson58]

Closest to the pin is an individual award given during a team event. Doesn’t matter what shot you selected to play.

Opinion.

[SHIBUMI]

GO TO THE USGA WEBSITE, THEN GO TO RULES,YOU CAN ASK A QUESTION AND THEY WILL ANSWER YOU WITHIN 48 HOURS...pretty cool


Had this happen a few weeks ago. I was lining up a putt on El Diablo and a gust of wind blew the ball backward, striking my putter. Clicking around I found what happens if the wind blows your ball into the hole, off the green, into the water, etc., but nothing about what the ruling is, if the wind blows the ball into your putter.

[kkingston57]

I've searched and searched and cannot find the answer.

A round of 4-person team scramble/best ball.
On the designated "closest to the pin (KP)" hole, there are 2 balls on the green. One is 3 feet away from the pin and has a very undulated putt. But it is closest to the pin. The other ball on the green is 5 feet away and has a straight in putt.
Can the players mark the 3 foot putt as closest and then play the 5 foot putt because it has a better lie?
Just asking the pros that know. (Not me)

good ?. Closer one should be used for the closest to the pin. Generally in a scramble we take the ball which we feel has the best chance for a lower score. Treat it like 2 separate contests.