Teacher shortage looms

[Rainger99]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b)

[Bogie Shooter]

It doesn’t loom…..it’s here now.
Plus recent nonsense laws make the job more difficult, and long time teachers are leaving.

[margaretmattson]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b). I urge the younger members in my family to avoid becoming a teacher. Too hazardous! Guns brought to school, organized fights, drugs...
We live in a different world!

[manaboutown]

My daughter-in-law taught first and second grade in small Idaho towns for about five years. She found the children unruly and their parents uncooperative. She burned out after a few short years. I can't imagine what it would be like to teach in an urban school. One cousin's husband told me he was going to teach in a Baltimore City low income area school after he retired from the government. He drove me by it one day, looked like a prison building in a war zone. I didn't think he could handle it but said nothing. I don't know how it all went down but that never happened. He ended up teaching in an exclusive private school. At age 81 he still volunteers there a couple days a week.

It has been getting worse for many years. In the late 1970s a classmate friend from high school visited me in our home town. He had a much older brother who taught math at our junior high. His brother and the shop teacher retired the first day they could and when asked why said the kids had changed. They were middle class - upper middle class kids for the most part, too.

[Doctor Who]

I taught US History for 34 years. I loved my students and the community in which I was employed. At my age I would love to teach two or three classes during a semester. I think I could still relate in spite of the negative attitudes that are expressed by many. Kids are great and have great opportunities ahead of them. Unforunately schools do not hire on a part time basis.

[Two Bills]

Nothing wrong with the kids.
It's the parents who need educating.
Different interpretation to the words civility and respect these days.

[Kelevision]

According to surveys by the Florida Education Association(FEA), the number of teacher vacancies have increased by 104 percent since August 2019 in Florida and during the 2021-2022 school year, Florida had the most vacancies with 3,911 positions unfulfilled of any other state.

[Keefelane66]

According to surveys by the Florida Education Association(FEA), the number of teacher vacancies have increased by 104 percent since August 2019 in Florida and during the 2021-2022 school year, Florida had the most vacancies with 3,911 positions unfulfilled of any other state.
“ According to the Florida Education Association, there were 5,294 teacher vacancies in January 2023. May 31, 2023”

[kkingston57]

In meantime very little is being done by our legislators to try making teaching better for the teachers and a few hard-core parents control the narrative as to what they believe children should be taught. These days children are being taught how to pass standardized tests.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Nothing wrong with the kids.
It's the parents who need educating.
Different interpretation to the words civility and respect these days.

It's the kids and the education systems as a whole. Federal funding spent by states on "private school" vouchers means less funding in areas where parents can't afford to send their kids to private schools. I'm talking about transportation. Poor folks who live in cities, generally don't have money for transportation for their kids to go to school every day. Poor folks who live in super-rural areas, like the mountains, don't have money for transportation to get their kids to some private or charter school, the closest of which is a 2-hour walk from home.

Public schools are underfunded in both urban and rural areas, and vouchers don't help these kids AT ALL. So you end up with fewer teachers, who will get paid less, have to put up with more red tape, higher risk of actual death, just to do what they love doing - teach kids. There's no incentive for teachers to teach at rural and urban public schools anymore.

Once upon a time the unions were strong enough to ensure that the towns secured a healthy pension and health benefits package for tenured teachers upon retirement. My mom is the recipient of one of those. She taught full-time kindergarten-3rd grade for 35 years. Anyone who thinks she got all summer off, all vacations off, half-days for parent-teacher conferences, etc - has obviously never been a public school teacher. I know what she did, because I was her kid who she took with her to college for her 6th year degree, her Masters degree, her yearly mandatory summer seminar classes (at her own expense), and washed the dishes while she graded papers after suppertime every weeknight.

I'm the kid who spent a week before the end of summer break, and two days before the end of winter break, with mom in the classroom helping her decorate for the next semester and making sure all the supply cabinets were replenished.

Back then, the schools gave her a classroom budget to work with. She'd spend the money and be reimbursed a month later after submitting the receipts and paperwork.

Now, public schools don't have that option. You want your classroom pretty, then make it pretty. Just leave the school budget out of it. Many public schools in underfunded areas have been like this for decades, and it's getting worse and worse every year.

[Kelevision]

“ According to the Florida Education Association, there were 5,294 teacher vacancies in January 2023. May 31, 2023”

Yes, Florida has one of the highest vacancies of any other state. They’ve been leaving in droves……. Florida's teachers are leaving in droves - Orlando Sentinel (https://digitaledition.orlandosentinel.com/tribune/article_popover.aspx?guid=5a91ebcc-c733-4135-a189-22913ad332bf)

[Stu from NYC]

Once upon a time teachers unions #1 priority was the kids they taught. These days too many unions care mostly about themselves especially in NYC which cannot get rid of teachers who have no business being near children. They have a building full of teachers on their payroll who sit and read books all day while getting paid their salary.

Perhaps if NY held their teachers to a certain standard they could get rid of useless ones and pay good teachers a better salary.

[manaboutown]

When I was in high school in 1959 I remember teachers in our school becoming unionized. I had a rather dull history teacher who every class session simply stood and reread out of our history book what the class had been assigned rather than enjoin the class in any discussion about our assignment. One day he announced the teachers were now unionized. Apparently he had been a major driving force. He was not even a mediocre teacher... No other teacher commented on unionizing but he was really juiced about it.

[Whitley]

To those speaking out against vouchers, how many generations of children are they willing to write off. This hurts especially poc and other under represented people, whose parents may not be able to afford a home in a good zip code with a good school. For over fifty years it was "we need the money to stay in the failing schools budget to make it better". Would you sacrifice your childs education on a promise of a future improvement. An improvement that has not been realized many generations later. No more condemning children to failing schools because of the neighborhood their folks can afford.

[Whitley]

In meantime very little is being done by our legislators to try making teaching better for the teachers and a few hard-core parents control the narrative as to what they believe children should be taught. These days children are being taught how to pass standardized tests.

I do not understand the leeway in "What should be taught". in history, teach history. Algebra, Algebra. Can you help me understand what you mean with parents controlling what should be taught? Thanks

[Bogie Shooter]

I do not understand the leeway in "What should be taught". in history, teach history. Algebra, Algebra. Can you help me understand what you mean with parents controlling what should be taught? Thanks

You need to watch a different tv channel!

[Whitley]

You need to watch a different tv channel!

You must be responding to the wrong post. I asked the poster of a prior comment a specific question concerning the post and you insert yourself by telling me to watch a different channel. I guess when you have no answer and feel you absolutely just must say something, post a meme or say something nonsensical.

[Bogie Shooter]

You must be responding to the wrong post. I asked the poster of a prior comment a specific question concerning the post and you insert yourself by telling me to watch a different channel. I guess when you have no answer and feel you absolutely just must say something, post a meme or say something nonsensical.

When you ask a question on a board such as this you will get more than comments from one poster.

Since you apparently are incapable of using a search engine, I will offer just a taste of the craziness that is going on in education.

One parent can object to a particular book or topic of discussion and all students are stopped from hearing or reading what is proposed.

Elimination of our history is being proposed and accomplished every day, sometimes because a child might be uncomfortable hearing that there was slavery in the US, why not? They should feel uncomfortable to have understanding and empathy....
Teachers have/are been put in the position of not knowing what they can or cannot teach. Vague rules/laws can lead to their dismissal.
For what is worth do a search on what teachers can or cannot teach........................

The Fight to Ban Books - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Here are 50 books Texas parents want banned from school libraries (nbcnews.com)

'Parents' Bill of Rights' Underscores Furor Over Curriculum and Transparency in Schools (edweek.org)

Tennessee parents say lesson plan make students 'feel discomfort' because they're White. They say a new law backs them up-- | CNN

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

To those speaking out against vouchers, how many generations of children are they willing to write off. This hurts especially poc and other under represented people, whose parents may not be able to afford a home in a good zip code with a good school. For over fifty years it was "we need the money to stay in the failing schools budget to make it better". Would you sacrifice your childs education on a promise of a future improvement. An improvement that has not been realized many generations later. No more condemning children to failing schools because of the neighborhood their folks can afford.

The failing schools are failing because they're underfunded. Poor people can't afford to TRANSPORT their children to private schools, which don't provide bus service. Poor people don't live within walking distance of good schools. Some kids don't live in walking distance to any school, but because of the PUBLIC school system, their right to free education means the system has to provide the transportation for them. As long as they're attending the public school. "Invitation-only" or "qualification only" schools such as charter schools and magnet schools, and private schools, don't have to provide free transportation for those students. Poor people can't afford to pay for that transportation.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You see how Bogie Shooter and I are agreeing about this topic, and not taking pot-shots at each other? It's because we're right. Just sayin...

[Woodbear]

Our NY school district was way OVER-Funded. Spending per student is $24,930/year. The district’s minority enrollment is 30%. Also, 34.2% of students are economically disadvantaged. A good portion of those students are Seneca Indians that can choose from multiple districts to be educated. Middle School proficiency in Math is at 36% and Reading is at 29%. The BEST private school located roughly 30 minutes from our home spends less per student.

Two-thirds of the students could not read or do math at their age level, but they have extra time to attend the Alphabet Fruit Loop crowd with Queer Club. For my two children, I would have taken their $49,800 and spent it way better than our local School Board did.

Homeschooling sounds better every day. Especially in S-Hole states like NY

[Blackbird45]

Once upon a time teachers unions #1 priority was the kids they taught. These days too many unions care mostly about themselves especially in NYC which cannot get rid of teachers who have no business being near children. They have a building full of teachers on their payroll who sit and read books all day while getting paid their salary.

Perhaps if NY held their teachers to a certain standard they could get rid of useless ones and pay good teachers a better salary.

Here is the problem, teachers are offered tenure to compensate for their lack of salary.
The general public would have a fit if they had to pay a decent salary to a teacher.
So political negotiators offer tenure instead.
Tenure should be removed from all contracts and teachers should be held to their job performance, but the public should be aware that comes at a cost. You can't have it both ways.

[Kelevision]

I’m curious if TV school will be able to open. Look at all the open teaching spots. The Villages - Florida's Friendliest Active Adult 55+ Retirement Community (https://www.thevillages.com/careers/search?category=9&category=13&category=18)

[Bay Kid]

I wouldn't want to be a teacher in this day and time except maybe up thru the 5th grade. Kids have no respect and they know the teachers can't do anything to them.

[Rainger99]

I’m curious if TV school will be able to open. Look at all the open teaching spots. The Villages - Florida's Friendliest Active Adult 55+ Retirement Community (https://www.thevillages.com/careers/search?category=9&category=13&category=18)

They put a lot of information about the job and the educational requirements - but they don’t mention the salary. Anyone have an idea of how much they pay??

[Singerlady]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b)
As a teacher of 35 years, you don’t know very much. Teaching was my love. I worked hard. I changed my ‘lectures’ every year. They needed to be updated. We changed books every 4 years- ‘lectures’ changed. Pressure was constant. Grades given were analyzed, scrutinized and you were told that the class average was not good enough. Do something about it. Summers were spent taking classes (I have 2 Masters degrees for that) improving and learning new techniques to teach. Evenings and weekends were spent grading papers, entering the info into the computer, adjusting the next day’s lesson plan because of the things I learned grading papers, etc. I even took work with me on planes on vacation and worked on vacation sometimes. I got paid well, but not all teachers did/do. A lot are underpaid, a lot are not appreciated and they work hard to provide good education.
I am not surprised there is a shortage anywhere, and there is currently a shortage. It is here. When you can graduate college, get a job that pays $70-80,000/year, why would you want to be a teacher and get paid $30-40,000 a year? Yes, you have more free time in the summer, but that’s not the thing that draws people to a profession.
Would I change a thing? No. I loved the classroom, the students, seeing the spark when the students ‘got it’! It’s a very rewarding career.

[firefighter4u]

My wife just retired from teaching elementary for 30 years in Western NY. Corrupt administration, welfare parents, and students who lack civility are pushing good teachers out. Covid rules were a disaster for education. Kids come to school hungry because the parents use their money for drugs and alcohol. Kids fall asleep during the day because the parents are up all night partying. Kids come to school dirty because they lack running water. Teachers are spending more time doing social work instead of actual education. The stories I could tell would blow your mind. Education starts at home and there is no safe home life for these poor kids, they don't have a chance.

[MandoMan]

It's the kids and the education systems as a whole. Federal funding spent by states on "private school" vouchers means less funding in areas where parents can't afford to send their kids to private schools. I'm talking about transportation. Poor folks who live in cities, generally don't have money for transportation for their kids to go to school every day. Poor folks who live in super-rural areas, like the mountains, don't have money for transportation to get their kids to some private or charter school, the closest of which is a 2-hour walk from home.

Public schools are underfunded in both urban and rural areas, and vouchers don't help these kids AT ALL. So you end up with fewer teachers, who will get paid less, have to put up with more red tape, higher risk of actual death, just to do what they love doing - teach kids. There's no incentive for teachers to teach at rural and urban public schools anymore.

Once upon a time the unions were strong enough to ensure that the towns secured a healthy pension and health benefits package for tenured teachers upon retirement. My mom is the recipient of one of those. She taught full-time kindergarten-3rd grade for 35 years. Anyone who thinks she got all summer off, all vacations off, half-days for parent-teacher conferences, etc - has obviously never been a public school teacher. I know what she did, because I was her kid who she took with her to college for her 6th year degree, her Masters degree, her yearly mandatory summer seminar classes (at her own expense), and washed the dishes while she graded papers after suppertime every weeknight.

I'm the kid who spent a week before the end of summer break, and two days before the end of winter break, with mom in the classroom helping her decorate for the next semester and making sure all the supply cabinets were replenished.

Back then, the schools gave her a classroom budget to work with. She'd spend the money and be reimbursed a month later after submitting the receipts and paperwork.

Now, public schools don't have that option. You want your classroom pretty, then make it pretty. Just leave the school budget out of it. Many public schools in underfunded areas have been like this for decades, and it's getting worse and worse every year.

You don’t need to go to a shiny new school to get a good public education. You don’t need new books. What you need is a school full of kids who want to learn and are willing to learn, rather than spending their days trying to avoiding learning. You need kids who don’t talk back, who don’t disrupt class, who don’t think they are funny, who do their homework and want to know more. You need parents who support education, not just sports. Parents who make sure their kids not only do their homework but make sure they understand it all. Parents who restrict cell phone usage to emergency calls. Parents who insist that their kids stay home and study after supper. Parents who can get up and pack their kids a lunch every day. Parents who turn off the television and music and sit at the kitchen table with their kids and help them. Parents who always have interesting things to talk about during dinner. Parents are the major reason why their kids don’t learn. Teachers can work as hard as they can, but they won’t generally succeed unless the parents actively parent their kids. I hate to say this, but garbage in, garbage out. Plenty of high school kids should skip school and go straight to the pen or the tattoo parlor. Throwing $13,000 per kid per year at a school won’t lead to a good education. Charter schools are not the answer if the lousy kids can get in. Parochial schools are not the answer unless they can weed out the troublemakers. What they show is that probably 90% of kids in schools today are improperly parented and are wasting the taxpayer’s money.

[Rainger99]

I worked hard. I changed my ‘lectures’ every year. They needed to be updated. We changed books every 4 years- ‘lectures’ changed.

It depends on the subject matter but in my experience, the vast majority of my grade school and high school teachers did not change lectures every year.

If you are teaching high school algebra or geometry or biology or chemistry do you change the lectures every year? Do the facts change every year?

Same with grade school reading, grammar, arithmetic, US history (you might want to add significant events from past year).

I can’t think of a subject that I took in school where the teachers couldn’t use the same lectures year after year.

[Wondering]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b)

This is not surprising with the lack of paying teachers a decent salary, especially in Southern States, lack of gun laws, and now banning of books and how and what to teach. Who in their right mind would want to be a teacher? I am a retired teacher - 34 years!

[justjim]

With so many 55 Adult communities in Florida, you would think most school districts would have more than enough money to attract teachers to this worthwhile profession. Without a teacher is like trying to fly without a pilot.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

This is not surprising with the lack of paying teachers a decent salary, especially in Southern States, lack of gun laws, and now banning of books and how and what to teach. Who in their right mind would want to be a teacher? I am a retired teacher - 34 years!

Fact check: TRUE

its a shame but another check mark in the slow disintegration of our wonderful country.

[Whitley]

The failing schools are failing because they're underfunded. Poor people can't afford to TRANSPORT their children to private schools, which don't provide bus service. Poor people don't live within walking distance of good schools. Some kids don't live in walking distance to any school, but because of the PUBLIC school system, their right to free education means the system has to provide the transportation for them. As long as they're attending the public school. "Invitation-only" or "qualification only" schools such as charter schools and magnet schools, and private schools, don't have to provide free transportation for those students. Poor people can't afford to pay for that transportation.

In NY and NJ busses and books are provided to children attending private schools. In NYC where I went to school (Bronx) within three blocks of the PS was a Catholic School, A Jewish School and a private school. Offer the parents the opportunity to send their kids to the school they choose. Where there is the will, they will find a way. With Catholic Schools spending 2/3 of what the PS do per pupil, and getting better results based on standardized test scores, and graduation rates, a parent will do what they must to provide their child a better education. Catholic schools in lower income and newly arrived immigrant communities are closing at record rates. Without vouchers children in these underserved communities will have fewer choices. You and I are most likely close in age. Since we were children in school we have heard that choice must not be offered as the PS needs the funds to improve. Fifty years down the road, several generations of children, they have not improved. It is immoral not to offer these communities the opportunity to choose. We are perpetuating poverty by having children from poor communities attend sub par schools.

[Escape Artist]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b)

These professions are cyclical in that at various points in history there are too many teachers or too few. I remember my daughter considered continuing with her education after college to get her teaching credential but at the time there was a glut of teachers and not enough jobs for them. The legal profession is another one of those careers where there are too few or too many.

[LuvNH]

In NY and NJ busses and books are provided to children attending private schools. In NYC where I went to school (Bronx) within three blocks of the PS was a Catholic School, A Jewish School and a private school. Offer the parents the opportunity to send their kids to the school they choose. Where there is the will, they will find a way. With Catholic Schools spending 2/3 of what the PS do per pupil, and getting better results based on standardized test scores, and graduation rates, a parent will do what they must to provide their child a better education. Catholic schools in lower income and newly arrived immigrant communities are closing at record rates. Without vouchers children in these underserved communities will have fewer choices. You and I are most likely close in age. Since we were children in school we have heard that choice must not be offered as the PS needs the funds to improve. Fifty years down the road, several generations of children, they have not improved. It is immoral not to offer these communities the opportunity to choose. .

We are perpetuating poverty by having children from poor communities attend sub par schools

and how many wonderful brains are we losing by not giving all children the ability to learn.

I cannot remember the details, but I believe several years ago "60 Minutes" did several programs on educators who had gone into the worst schools in NY City and the kids were like sponges, they loved learning and were destined to have a successful life. Kids like this probably add more to a country than a lot of the private schools turn out.

Does anyone ever look at the qualifications level of the people who get voted onto school boards? You only need one loud mouthed parent to get a group of people stirred up and vote in people who are not qualified to decide what type of education your children need.

[Whitley]

This is not surprising with the lack of paying teachers a decent salary, especially in Southern States, lack of gun laws, and now banning of books and how and what to teach. Who in their right mind would want to be a teacher? I am a retired teacher - 34 years!

The average teacher salary in Florida is $51,230.00 (World Population Review). Florida is ranked fourth in the nation for being at or above basic and proficient (NationsReportCard.gov).
The National Median Salary, for 12 months is $45,760.00
The national average salary for teachers K-12 is 66,397.00 for ten months. That equals 79,676.40 a year.
I will leave it up to you to decide if this is underpaid.

[Whitley]

We are perpetuating poverty by having children from poor communities attend sub par schools

and how many wonderful brains are we losing by not giving all children the ability to learn.

I cannot remember the details, but I believe several years ago "60 Minutes" did several programs on educators who had gone into the worst schools in NY City and the kids were like sponges, they loved learning and were destined to have a successful life. Kids like this probably add more to a country than a lot of the private schools turn out.

Does anyone ever look at the qualifications level of the people who get voted onto school boards? You only need one loud mouthed parent to get a group of people stirred up and vote in people who are not qualified to decide what type of education your children need.

So these educators went to the worst schools in NYC, and the students were fabulous and absorbed knowledge like a sponge absorbs water. What then is the issue at NYC schools. If the NH teachers had the kids learning like little Einsteins, the regular NYC teachers must be horrible. Would that be your conclusion?
In 2022, twenty three Baltimore City PS'shad zero students that were proficient in math. Not one student. As there are probably not enough exceptional NH educators to go around all fifty states, maybe we should allow parents to decide what school to send their tax money and child to.

[Haggar]

In NY and NJ busses and books are provided to children attending private schools. In NYC where I went to school (Bronx) within three blocks of the PS was a Catholic School, A Jewish School and a private school. Offer the parents the opportunity to send their kids to the school they choose. Where there is the will, they will find a way. With Catholic Schools spending 2/3 of what the PS do per pupil, and getting better results based on standardized test scores, and graduation rates, a parent will do what they must to provide their child a better education. Catholic schools in lower income and newly arrived immigrant communities are closing at record rates. Without vouchers children in these underserved communities will have fewer choices. You and I are most likely close in age. Since we were children in school we have heard that choice must not be offered as the PS needs the funds to improve. Fifty years down the road, several generations of children, they have not improved. It is immoral not to offer these communities the opportunity to choose. We are perpetuating poverty by having children from poor communities attend sub par schools.

Agreeing that Catholic schools have a better rating than public schools how much is that a result of admission standards to these schools being different than public schools which must accept all children.

My daughter in law is a teacher - a very good teacher according to her reviews. She has taught in schools where the parents considered teachers to be the sole source of the education of their kids who lived in a home environment that did nothing to support the education of their kids. The parents felt no responsibility to encourage their children to do their homework or read. These parents stridently felt that when their kids failed in schools it was the teacher's fault.

Correct me if I am wrong - the parents pay tuition for their children to go to Catholic schools - they care how their children do in school. Since public school is free the parental attitude is not the same. Many of these students go to school because the law requires it.

Since the ratings of public schools is an average of all the students of course Catholic school ratings will beat public schools.

My daughter also has to put up with violent students (and parents) in her classrooms. In private schools those students would be expelled.

Florida is among the five lowest states in compensation for teachers.

Of course teachers are leaving -

[Stu from NYC]

Here is the problem, teachers are offered tenure to compensate for their lack of salary.
The general public would have a fit if they had to pay a decent salary to a teacher.
So political negotiators offer tenure instead.
Tenure should be removed from all contracts and teachers should be held to their job performance, but the public should be aware that comes at a cost. You can't have it both ways.

In life you generally get what you pay for. Employees should be held to performance and if you have to pay more so be it. NYC has local school boards run mostly by people who have no business running school districts.

[Whitley]

Agreeing that Catholic schools have a better rating than public schools how much is that a result of admission standards to these schools being different than public schools which must accept all children.

My daughter in law is a teacher - a very good teacher according to her reviews. She has taught in schools where the parents considered teachers to be the sole source of the education of their kids who lived in a home environment that did nothing to support the education of their kids. The parents felt no responsibility to encourage their children to do their homework or read. These parents stridently felt that when their kids failed in schools it was the teacher's fault.

Correct me if I am wrong - the parents pay tuition for their children to go to Catholic schools - they care how their children do in school. Since public school is free the parental attitude is not the same. Many of these students go to school because the law requires it.

Since the ratings of public schools is an average of all the students of course Catholic school ratings will beat public schools.

My daughter also has to put up with violent students (and parents) in her classrooms. In private schools those students would be expelled.

Florida is among the five lowest states in compensation for teachers.

Of course teachers are leaving -

I agree with all that you said. At 51,230.00 salary average per school year Florida is at the bottom five. As I mentioned earlier, Florida ranks 4th for students at or above basic& proficient. While admittance is pretty much guaranteed for students starting in K at a Catholic School, the school certainly does have the choice to expel students. That absolutely can play in the favor of the private school.
Assuming we agree on all points, what is the solution? More money would not seem to be the answer. After not seeing an improvement (actually imo it has gotten worse) in fifty years, I propose the voucher so that those parents who do care are not trapped sending their child to a failing school. Doing more of the same should not be acceptable.

[Rainger99]

I agree with all that you said. At 51,230.00 salary average per school year Florida is at the bottom five. As I mentioned earlier, Florida ranks 4th for students at or above basic& proficient. While admittance is pretty much guaranteed for students starting in K at a Catholic School, the school certainly does have the choice to expel students. That absolutely can play in the favor of the private school.
Assuming we agree on all points, what is the solution? More money would not seem to be the answer. After not seeing an improvement (actually imo it has gotten worse) in fifty years, I propose the voucher so that those parents who do care are not trapped sending their child to a failing school. Doing more of the same should not be acceptable.

I saw this movie when it came out. It is about charter schools. I don't think that you can stream it online without paying for it. I think the Sumter County Library has it. It is listed on their website but the status is withdrawn.

Waiting for "Superman" - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22)

[LuvNH]

So these educators went to the worst schools in NYC, and the students were fabulous and absorbed knowledge like a sponge absorbs water. What then is the issue at NYC schools. If the NH teachers had the kids learning like little Einsteins, the regular NYC teachers must be horrible. Would that be your conclusion?
In 2022, twenty three Baltimore City PS'shad zero students that were proficient in math. Not one student. As there are probably not enough exceptional NH educators to go around all fifty states, maybe we should allow parents to decide what school to send their tax money and child to.

Well you certainly managed to twist that around, didn't you. Where did I say that fabulous NH teachers went to teach in NY?I If you had read it correctly, I mentioned programs I had seen on "60 minutes" where educators had gone into the worst classes in NYC. As I recall the educators were black and I have no idea where they came from, certainly not NH.

Either your reading or comprehension skills need a little work.

For the record, my children were educated in Massachusetts and both went to local colleges. Both my sons now live in NH and are very successful.

[ThirdOfFive]

Nothing wrong with the kids.
It's the parents who need educating.
Different interpretation to the words civility and respect these days.
Bingo!

Back in the day, Mom and Dad had a talk with me and my siblings: "don't get into trouble at school and complain to us about it, because if you do you'll be in twice as much trouble at home". And they meant it.

Back then, the behavior "problems" most prevalent in our high school was chewing gum in class, running in the halls, and being late to class. A few girls got in trouble for wearing skirts above the kneecap and/or wearing blue jeans.

How does that stack up to today?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Here is the problem, teachers are offered tenure to compensate for their lack of salary.
The general public would have a fit if they had to pay a decent salary to a teacher.
So political negotiators offer tenure instead.
Tenure should be removed from all contracts and teachers should be held to their job performance, but the public should be aware that comes at a cost. You can't have it both ways.

It never used to be that way, or at least, it wasn't that way in Connecticut. Teachers in CT were state employees, college education was mandatory. If you wanted tenure you had to have been a teacher for a number of years, following the standards of the educational program, with no disciplinary action against you, and you had to have fulfilled additional requirements to continue your own education (at your own expense).

In other words, you had to EARN your tenure, it wasn't automatic. You earn it by proving you can be reliable, consistent, and respectful of the goals and policies of the school district you're in. Tenure wasn't a guaranteed job for life, but it made it much more difficult to fire someone. There had to be a valid reason to fire them, it had to go through the proper channels, and there would be union representation throughout the process. A valid reason might be - slapping a student. Showing up to work drunk (alcoholics might be offered ONE unpaid sabbatical to dry out and then permitted back for a probationary period). Sexually assaulting a student. Selling or buying illegal or prescription drugs to/from anyone on school grounds. Serious offenses. Not nonsense like "we don't discuss pronouns in class." That's just stupid, and does little other than make the students MORE curious about why it's such a big deal, when they probably never thought it was a big deal in the first place.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Bingo!

Back in the day, Mom and Dad had a talk with me and my siblings: "don't get into trouble at school and complain to us about it, because if you do you'll be in twice as much trouble at home". And they meant it.

Back then, the behavior "problems" most prevalent in our high school was chewing gum in class, running in the halls, and being late to class. A few girls got in trouble for wearing skirts above the kneecap and/or wearing blue jeans.

How does that stack up to today?

Hm - today it's pretty mild compared to the year before I attended high school. 1975 was the year of the "race riot." It wasn't really, but that's how it got described in the newspapers. It was actually started because of a drug deal. The buyer didn't want to pay. I don't remember if the buyer or the seller was white but one was, and the other was black. The white guy insulted the black guy's girlfriend, and all hell broke loose. Over 25 people were arrested, including students from another high school in another town who came over to fight when they found out it had begun.

There was another race riot in 1969.

When I was in Junior High, I got beat up in the gym by a bully because she "heard" that I thought her boyfriend was cute. It was true, I did think her boyfriend was cute. I don't know why she should be upset by that - that's some bragworthy stuff right there, that your boyfriend is not only cute, but other people agree. But she beat me up over it.

Another girl beat me up on the bus because she thought I didn't like her. She ended up suspended for a few days for that incident. Thankfully it ended well - she thanked me for getting her a few days off from school and offered to beat anyone up on my behalf, if I ever needed it done.

Drug dealing was a daily occurrence. During any given class period, you could find people behind the school under a cliff next to the shopping plaza buying, selling, or smoking pot/hash/hash oil. High school kids were dosing out on LSD and windowpane on Friday nights, or getting drunk at the bowling alley because the bartender didn't card anyone there.

Most kids were decent kids. But to say that nothing nefarious ever went on when you were a kid, is pretty ignorant. I mean that word in the strictest sense - ignorant means unknowing. You didn't know about it - but it happened. In every school district in every state in the country, there were kids doing pretty horrible things, and there were kids doing stupid things, and there were kids doing things they weren't supposed to do, whether they were "bad" or not.

[LuvNH]

Bingo!

Back in the day, Mom and Dad had a talk with me and my siblings: "don't get into trouble at school and complain to us about it, because if you do you'll be in twice as much trouble at home". And they meant it.

Back then, the behavior "problems" most prevalent in our high school was chewing gum in class, running in the halls, and being late to class. A few girls got in trouble for wearing skirts above the kneecap and/or wearing blue jeans.

How does that stack up to today?

Unfortunately, today's kids (if so inclined) could take you to court for child abuse and probably win.

[Whitley]

Well you certainly managed to twist that around, didn't you. Where did I say that fabulous NH teachers went to teach in NY?I If you had read it correctly, I mentioned programs I had seen on "60 minutes" where educators had gone into the worst classes in NYC. As I recall the educators were black and I have no idea where they came from, certainly not NH.

Either your reading or comprehension skills need a little work.

For the record, my children were educated in Massachusetts and both went to local colleges. Both my sons now live in NH and are very successful.

I am very happy to hear your sons are doing well. The question still stands. Why were these educators from wherever able to teach these NYC students so well, yet they failed to thrive with their regular teachers. I am not trying to trick you. I think it is an important question that would have been addressed in the show you watched. Maybe this time you can communicate with me and leave out any insults?

[Whitley]

Prohibiting Penthouse magazine in the grade school library is not banning books. You can still go and buy it, if you are an adult, at any magazine store. Anyone saying books are banned in FL is not being honest.

[Bogie Shooter]

Prohibiting Penthouse magazine in the grade school library is not banning books. You can still go and buy it, if you are an adult, at any magazine store. Anyone saying books are banned in FL is not being honest.

After more than 200 books were banned in various school districts across Florida between the summer of 2021 and 2022, districts continued the crackdown, banning 357 books between July and December 2022, according to the nonprofit organization PEN America. The organization reports that Florida had the second-highest number of book-banning incidents in the nation during that period, trailing only Texas.

Here is the list..
Miami Bookstore Owners React to Florida's Whopping Number of Banned Books | Miami New Times (https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-bookstores-react-to-floridas-banned-books-14296052)

[chicksinger]

When you understand that teachers, once highly respected and paid well, no longer have either. In Denver, we called working in an urban school combat pay. Teachers are on the bottom of the totem pole in the public sector and treated as such by admin, students and parents alike. In those schools, the kids run the asylum.

When I subbed in those schools, I often needed security in the classroom just to maintain peace and my safety. There is no respect whatsoever. I was threatened, bullied, hit on the head with a basketball, tacks on my chairs, cursed at and followed by students and chased to my car sometimes after classes. Teachers were often in fear of having their houses set on fire in one neighborhood and I was warned by one of the male teachers not to be left alone with the "teens" because rape and assault was a real possibility with all those older boys in high school.....and they did come right up to my face towering over me and ask me what I would do about it if they didn't want to go back inside when the bell rang.... I put on the bravado and said I didn't give a crap whether they came in or not, I wasn't going to be here tomorrow, but, they would be...so, I'm going inside now and you can do whatever you want! That was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in my life in the schools.

Principals always sided with the students despite the obvious whenever I went for help or tried to use any kind of discipline. Teaching under those circumstances is anything but instructive...you are expected to actually teach and be a psychologist, nurse, quasi-parental figure and do it in such a way that will capture the students attention. All this is demanded and expected for less pay than a McDonald's employee.

The only place teaching can really take place is in an atmosphere of support and respect for the job from the parents, admin and students at the very least. There needs to be consequences when they don't. That's why IF anyone I know thinks of going into teaching today in the public school system, I recommend the private sector. My husband finally told me that if anyone touched me or hurt me he'd wind up in jail and I felt the same way...if anyone touched me, don't care if they're "kids"...I will defend myself and no doubt, wind up in jail as well. It was a battlefield and we decided it was time to quit the classroom, so I did.

[kenoc7]

It depends on the subject matter but in my experience, the vast majority of my grade school and high school teachers did not change lectures every year.

If you are teaching high school algebra or geometry or biology or chemistry do you change the lectures every year? Do the facts change every year?

Same with grade school reading, grammar, arithmetic, US history (you might want to add significant events from past year).

I can’t think of a subject that I took in school where the teachers couldn’t use the same lectures year after year.

I was a HS teacher for 23 years and a district subject coordinator for ten years and I don't understand al the talk about lectures - and teachers never changing them. I never gave a lecture in any of my classes and asa. coordinator I never saw teachers in my district give lectures. We always planned our lessons to engage students in learning so there was a minimum of teacher talk.

[Whitley]

After more than 200 books were banned in various school districts across Florida between the summer of 2021 and 2022, districts continued the crackdown, banning 357 books between July and December 2022, according to the nonprofit organization PEN America. The organization reports that Florida had the second-highest number of book-banning incidents in the nation during that period, trailing only Texas.

Here is the list..
Miami Bookstore Owners React to Florida's Whopping Number of Banned Books | Miami New Times (https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-bookstores-react-to-floridas-banned-books-14296052)


There are no, zero, zippo books banned statewide in the state of Florida. There are books that are pulled from schools, or restricted to High School. I am a bit surprised that anyone would feel this is wrong. July 1, a law went in effect that allows parents to petition their school board to review books they find inappropriate for children of a certain age. That is called being a concerned, involved parent. Many on this site have criticized parents for not being involved in their child's education. Can not have it both ways.

[Whitley]

When you understand that teachers, once highly respected and paid well, no longer have either. In Denver, we called working in an urban school combat pay. Teachers are on the bottom of the totem pole in the public sector and treated as such by admin, students and parents alike. In those schools, the kids run the asylum.

When I subbed in those schools, I often needed security in the classroom just to maintain peace and my safety. There is no respect whatsoever. I was threatened, bullied, hit on the head with a basketball, tacks on my chairs, cursed at and followed by students and chased to my car sometimes after classes. Teachers were often in fear of having their houses set on fire in one neighborhood and I was warned by one of the male teachers not to be left alone with the "teens" because rape and assault was a real possibility with all those older boys in high school.....and they did come right up to my face towering over me and ask me what I would do about it if they didn't want to go back inside when the bell rang.... I put on the bravado and said I didn't give a crap whether they came in or not, I wasn't going to be here tomorrow, but, they would be...so, I'm going inside now and you can do whatever you want! That was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in my life in the schools.

Principals always sided with the students despite the obvious whenever I went for help or tried to use any kind of discipline. Teaching under those circumstances is anything but instructive...you are expected to actually teach and be a psychologist, nurse, quasi-parental figure and do it in such a way that will capture the students attention. All this is demanded and expected for less pay than a McDonald's employee.

The only place teaching can really take place is in an atmosphere of support and respect for the job from the parents, admin and students at the very least. There needs to be consequences when they don't. That's why IF anyone I know thinks of going into teaching today in the public school system, I recommend the private sector. My husband finally told me that if anyone touched me or hurt me he'd wind up in jail and I felt the same way...if anyone touched me, don't care if they're "kids"...I will defend myself and no doubt, wind up in jail as well. It was a battlefield and we decided it was time to quit the classroom, so I did.


What happened over the years that pushed our schools to this dangerous state we see today as described by you? Why are classes so much more dangerous today? What has changed?

[Marsha11]

I do not understand the leeway in "What should be taught". in history, teach history. Algebra, Algebra. Can you help me understand what you mean with parents controlling what should be taught? Thanks
There's more regarding CRT being taught by all except , privat schools which is very good. The President of union is really way out there. Even travels the world to really bad schools as well. Teachers use this junk, parents say no, secret service watches parents at talks. You can tell how bad this is. Keep in m8nd in terms is that income to a teacher really is in school close to only 7 months a year. In the old days, many enjoyed their summer

[Whitley]

After more than 200 books were banned in various school districts across Florida between the summer of 2021 and 2022, districts continued the crackdown, banning 357 books between July and December 2022, according to the nonprofit organization PEN America. The organization reports that Florida had the second-highest number of book-banning incidents in the nation during that period, trailing only Texas.

Here is the list..
Miami Bookstore Owners React to Florida's Whopping Number of Banned Books | Miami New Times (https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-bookstores-react-to-floridas-banned-books-14296052)

Why would an adult want children between 5 and 13 years old to have access to sexually explicit books? Hmmmm? I wonder?

[Stu from NYC]

What happened over the years that pushed our schools to this dangerous state we see today as described by you? Why are classes so much more dangerous today? What has changed?

All to often parents are not engaged in their kids education.

We got to know our kids teachers and if we heard anything that our child physically or in any way abused our kids they would not be at all happy with what we would do to correct their behavior. Luckily we were hardly tested.

Only thing I can think of is once upon a time a teacher said our son missed a few homework assignments. That did not happen again.

[Rainger99]

Why would an adult want children between 5 and 13 years old to have access to sexually explicit books? Hmmmm? I wonder?

This is a list of books that were asked to be banned in Polk County. I don't know if any were actually banned.

I have not read any of them but I did a quick review of The Kite Runner. There is a homosexual rape scene. I don't think you would want it in grade school.

"Two Boys Kissing" by David Levithan
"The Kite Runner" by Khaled Hosseini
"Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close" by Jonathan Safran Foer
"Thirteen Reasons Why" by Jay Asher
"The Vincent Boys" by Abbi Glines
"It’s Perfectly Normal" by Robie Harris and illustrated by Michael Emberley
"Real Live Boyfriends" by E. Lockhart
"George" by Alex Gino
"I am Jazz" by Jessica Herthel and Jazz Jennings
"Drama" by Raina Telgemeier
"Nineteen Minutes" by Jodi Picoult
"More Happy Than Not" by Adam Silvera
"Beloved" by Toni Morrison
"The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison
"Tricks" by Ellen Hopkins
"Almost Perfect" by Brian Katcher

[Whitley]

This is a list of books that were asked to be banned in Polk County. I don't know if any were actually banned.

I have not read any of them but I did a quick review of The Kite Runner. There is a homosexual rape scene. I don't think you would want it in grade school.

"Two Boys Kissing" by David Levithan
"The Kite Runner" by Khaled Hosseini
"Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close" by Jonathan Safran Foer
"Thirteen Reasons Why" by Jay Asher
"The Vincent Boys" by Abbi Glines
"It’s Perfectly Normal" by Robie Harris and illustrated by Michael Emberley
"Real Live Boyfriends" by E. Lockhart
"George" by Alex Gino
"I am Jazz" by Jessica Herthel and Jazz Jennings
"Drama" by Raina Telgemeier
"Nineteen Minutes" by Jodi Picoult
"More Happy Than Not" by Adam Silvera
"Beloved" by Toni Morrison
"The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison
"Tricks" by Ellen Hopkins
"Almost Perfect" by Brian Katcher

I too googled and the first one I checked was a book called Damsel. It has graphic depictions of rape, animal abuse, pedophilia, animal rape (?), beastiality, Profane description of the human body. What kind of a person would want this to be on bookshelves in the school library.

[Rainger99]

What kind of a person would want this to be on bookshelves in the school library.

It will be interesting to see who will defend the book!

[Stu from NYC]

I too googled and the first one I checked was a book called Damsel. It has graphic depictions of rape, animal abuse, pedophilia, animal rape (?), beastiality, Profane description of the human body. What kind of a person would want this to be on bookshelves in the school library.

Or any library.

[Whitley]

Or any library.

I guess I am a 20th century liberal. Back when that meant you were for free speech and against wars. I wouldn't want to ban any book from being sold to an adult.

[ThirdOfFive]

There are no, zero, zippo books banned statewide in the state of Florida. There are books that are pulled from schools, or restricted to High School. I am a bit surprised that anyone would feel this is wrong. July 1, a law went in effect that allows parents to petition their school board to review books they find inappropriate for children of a certain age. That is called being a concerned, involved parent. Many on this site have criticized parents for not being involved in their child's education. Can not have it both ways.
As always, consider the source. Accuracy suffers when hysteria is the goal.

[Chee-Chee]

It appears that the USA is facing a teacher shortage in the near future.

I was not a teacher but for my classmates that went into teaching, it always seemed like a nice career. You weren’t going to get rich teaching but very few of us got rich - most of us ended up middle class.

Work hard the first few years to get the lectures down and then you have to just update them. Most of them enjoyed life - not a lot of pressure and summers off. They seemed happy and they felt like they were making the world better.

Education was once the No. 1 major for college students. Now it's an afterthought. - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/education-majors-colleges-decline-teacher-pay/?ftag=YHFa5b931b)


I was in the classroom for 33 years. What you are describing is possibly high school or college. Elementary teachers have 2-3 times the workload. Even veteran teachers are overwhelmed. I did many years as an inner city teacher. Overwhelmed at times was a understatement

[Chee-Chee]

Here is the problem, teachers are offered tenure to compensate for their lack of salary.
The general public would have a fit if they had to pay a decent salary to a teacher.
So political negotiators offer tenure instead.
Tenure should be removed from all contracts and teachers should be held to their job performance, but the public should be aware that comes at a cost. You can't have it both ways.

In Fl it was removed in 2011.

[mrf0151]

Yes, Florida has one of the highest vacancies of any other state. They’ve been leaving in droves……. Florida's teachers are leaving in droves - Orlando Sentinel (https://digitaledition.orlandosentinel.com/tribune/article_popover.aspx?guid=5a91ebcc-c733-4135-a189-22913ad332bf)
All the more reason for Charter Schools where parents are required to be involved. In these schools there are far fewer problems all the way around. Teachers love teaching in this environment as they see the fruits of their labor rewarded in that 90 some percent of these students graduate, and a much higher percent go on to higher education.

[Whitley]

As always, consider the source. Accuracy suffers when hysteria is the goal.

You say consider the sources. WFLA, SNOPES, NewsWeek, USA Today. I do not understand what problem you have with these sources. Do you just say "consider the source" when you read something that you do not like? Do you disagree with pulling books from grade school libraries that deal with pedophilia, bestiality, explicitly described rape, animal rape (I have no idea. I would think all bestiality is rape). ? Surely we can agree that this is not a book that should be in grade school libraries.Wouldn't you agree?

[Whitley]

All the more reason for Charter Schools where parents are required to be involved. In these schools there are far fewer problems all the way around. Teachers love teaching in this environment as they see the fruits of their labor rewarded in that 90 some percent of these students graduate, and a much higher percent go on to higher education.

You make an excellent point.

[Stu from NYC]

I guess I am a 20th century liberal. Back when that meant you were for free speech and against wars. I wouldn't want to ban any book from being sold to an adult.

That is fine if a bookstore wants to carry and sell that kind of book. My point was a library that is supported by taxpayers should not have to buy a book like that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I too googled and the first one I checked was a book called Damsel. It has graphic depictions of rape, animal abuse, pedophilia, animal rape (?), beastiality, Profane description of the human body. What kind of a person would want this to be on bookshelves in the school library.

Sounds like a collection of passages from the bible. We should ban that too. It's one of the oldest porn novels in existence.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

That is fine if a bookstore wants to carry and sell that kind of book. My point was a library that is supported by taxpayers should not have to buy a book like that.

And if they already HAVE a book like that, or the book is given to them without charge, they should not have to dump it just because some ignorant puritan thinks that reading about a boy who likes boys will turn you gay.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In Fl it was removed in 2011.

It's another reason why there's such a high turnover in Florida schools and qualified teachers are in short supply. It's why Florida is offering teacher positions to UNqualified (not just underqualified) armed services veterans. The state doesn't care whether or not you know how to teach or are even comfortable around children. It just wants to pretend it cares about veterans (while supporting the reduction of veterans benefits), and children (while shaming children who are different and underfunding special ed services).

[jaj523]

Baltimore spends the most money per student than any other city in the country.. And it ranks at the bottom in student learning. Google for the statistics. This is true for many big cities as well. Money isn't the answer. Revamping the system is.

[Rainger99]

Revamping the system is.

What do you suggest?

Is the system that different now than when we went to school?

Do most people here think they got a great education, good education, adequate education, or poor education?

It seems with the internet, every kid has access to a great education. There are lectures and videos on every subject.

In today’s world, I have more access to information from my home computer than I did at my college library.

With remote learning, students should have access to the best teachers in the country and not have to put up with poor teachers. Sort of like Great Courses. Think of the money we could save.

Why haven’t we done it or at least tried it in some school districts?

The educational industry would object but the purpose of schools is to educate the children - not provide jobs for teachers and administrators.

We seem to doing the latter much better than the former!

Here is an 8th grade test from 1912. I would bet that 80% of today’s high school graduates could not pass it.

Bullitt County History - 1912 School Exam Answers (https://www.bullittcountyhistory.com/bchistory/schoolexam1912ans.html)

[Normal]

What happened over the years that pushed our schools to this dangerous state we see today as described by you? Why are classes so much more dangerous today? What has changed?

It’s called Dr. Spock. 200 years of spanking in the school environment came to a screeching halt. His cookie cutter model of discipline fit if all kids were the same, but they are not! One child conforms immediately through logic and anxiety if admonished, another needs a more physical correction type response to misbehavior. Spock sold a lot of books, but ruined classroom order.

The second poison pill was full inclusion.

The last poison pill was IEP protections from discipline.

[JMintzer]

Sounds like a collection of passages from the bible. We should ban that too. It's one of the oldest porn novels in existence.

Pretty sure many are just fine with that...

[JMintzer]

My youngest daughter just left teaching after only 5-6 years...

She still works for the school system, but is now in the IT division...

She received a huge raise with larger annual increases...

Yes, it's insane that we don't pay teachers more... The money is there. It's simply being squandered...

[Whitley]

And if they already HAVE a book like that, or the book is given to them without charge, they should not have to dump it just because some ignorant puritan thinks that reading about a boy who likes boys will turn you gay.

Can we stick to the topic. The book I saw was Damsel, with descriptive rape, pedophilia, bestiality, animal rape (?) etc.. Are you against having that available in grade school libraries?

I notice in your responses there tends to be a certain degree of anger, nastiness, name calling. Are you familiar with the facial recognition program that can predict if a person is right or left wing. It seems the more relaxed, smiling, happy faces are right wing. This was in the Danish Journal Science Reports.
Another study that I read in Psychology Today showed that Conservative Politicians were "more beautiful". That would be in 2018 or 2019. We should all relax and enjoy that we are fortunate enough to live in TV. Name calling does not really serve a purpose.

[Whitley]

It's another reason why there's such a high turnover in Florida schools and qualified teachers are in short supply. It's why Florida is offering teacher positions to UNqualified (not just underqualified) armed services veterans. The state doesn't care whether or not you know how to teach or are even comfortable around children. It just wants to pretend it cares about veterans (while supporting the reduction of veterans benefits), and children (while shaming children who are different and underfunding special ed services).

Some current teachers on Tik Tok are a bit too comfortable around little kids. With all of these negatives, Fl still is in the top five for students that are at or above grade level. They must be doing something right.

[Whitley]

Pretty sure many are just fine with that...


The Bible was not in our local public schools. Not sure why anyone would bring that into the discussion.

[Whitley]

Baltimore spends the most money per student than any other city in the country.. And it ranks at the bottom in student learning. Google for the statistics. This is true for many big cities as well. Money isn't the answer. Revamping the system is.

What has happened to Baltimore is horrible. I was in college when Schaeffer was Mayor (then Gov). Baltimore was doing well. Now, 40 years later and it is a wreck. So very sad.

[JMintzer]

The Bible was not in our local public schools. Not sure why anyone would bring that into the discussion.

Because they have no other cogent argument...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Can we stick to the topic. The book I saw was Damsel, with descriptive rape, pedophilia, bestiality, animal rape (?) etc.. Are you against having that available in grade school libraries?

I notice in your responses there tends to be a certain degree of anger, nastiness, name calling. Are you familiar with the facial recognition program that can predict if a person is right or left wing. It seems the more relaxed, smiling, happy faces are right wing. This was in the Danish Journal Science Reports.
Another study that I read in Psychology Today showed that Conservative Politicians were "more beautiful". That would be in 2018 or 2019. We should all relax and enjoy that we are fortunate enough to live in TV. Name calling does not really serve a purpose.

It's classified as a YA book. I think it shouldn't be. I think if I saw that in an elementary school library I'd have a word with the librarian just on that one aspect alone, because YA books don't belong in elementary schools in the first place.

I read an actual librarian's review, and it sounds like it shouldn't even be a YA book, though it might be an interesting type of book for 12th graders or college students who are studying feminist literature.

Rather than demand that the school SYSTEM remove the book from all libraries, I'd probably just have a talk with the librarian and point it out to them. Since that's their job - to determine what should or shouldn't be in their library.

I did exactly that when a similar book (based on the same theme in fact) showed up in the kids' section. It was a series, a 3 or 4 book series of the Sleeping Beauty story - by A.N. Roquelaure, also known as Ann Rice. It's a BDSM series that shouldn't be anywhere near minor children. But the librarian had no idea that it was NOT the Sleeping Beauty story she thought it was - until I pointed it out to her. She immediately removed it from the kids' section and stuck it in the office where I'm sure she spent some time deciding what to do about it.

[Babubhat]

It’s a miserable job today. Too many administrators and parents telling you how to do your job for inadequate pay. Might as well work at Coleman prison

[Pballer]

Maybe there is a huge teacher shortage in Florida because teachers and prospective teachers don't want to have to teach how slavery wasn't so bad because slaves were taught skills that they could then use for their own personal benefit; as well as other garbage they must teach by edict of the Florida Board of Education.

[JMintzer]

Maybe there is a huge teacher shortage in Florida because teachers and prospective teachers don't want to have to teach how slavery wasn't so bad because slaves were taught skills that they could then use for their own personal benefit; as well as other garbage they must teach by edict of the Florida Board of Education.

Good thing that isn't happening...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Maybe there is a huge teacher shortage in Florida because teachers and prospective teachers don't want to have to teach how slavery wasn't so bad because slaves were taught skills that they could then use for their own personal benefit; as well as other garbage they must teach by edict of the Florida Board of Education.

I didn't want to trust Politico or any mainstream or even alt-media to check this, I'd heard about it. So I went to the actual state board of education website and found the document. It's right there on page 5:
SS.68.AA.2.3
Examine the various duties and trades performed by slaves (e.g., agricultural
work, painting, carpentry, tailoring, domestic service, blacksmithing,
transportation).
Benchmark Clarifications:
Clarification 1: Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be
applied for their personal benefit.

That's for grade 6-8. Here's the link to the Bd. of Ed pdf doc:
https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Which, if you don't like clicking links in posts, you can find by running a search on academic standards florida 2023

Nowhere in the multi-page document does it mention anything about how students should be taught that female slaves were used as breed-mares for future generations of slaves, and that many of the domestic slaves were the result of rape by the master against the female slave. And yes that's definitely age-appropriate. Girls 6-8 grade are mostly menstruating and capable of getting pregnant if they're raped. Which does happen. Not often - but it does happen.

[JMintzer]

I didn't want to trust Politico or any mainstream or even alt-media to check this, I'd heard about it. So I went to the actual state board of education website and found the document. It's right there on page 5:


That's for grade 6-8. Here's the link to the Bd. of Ed pdf doc:
https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Which, if you don't like clicking links in posts, you can find by running a search on academic standards florida 2023

Odd how you ignore all of the positive things they teach about AA history...

Focusing on ONE "clarification" in ONE minute subsection is a cheap attempt at attacking the FL School system...

BTW, I DID read the link provided...

[JMintzer]

And it does include this:

SS.912.AA.1.7

Compare the living conditions of slaves in British North American colonies,
the Caribbean, Central America and South America, including infant
mortality rates.

Benchmark Clarifications:
Clarification 1: Instruction includes the harsh conditions and their consequences on British American plantations (e.g., undernourishment, climate conditions, infant and child mortality rates of the enslaved vs. the free).
Clarification 2: Instruction includes the harsh conditions in the Caribbean plantations (i.e., poor
nutrition, rigorous labor, disease).

But because the list doesn't specifically mention "rape" and "breeding", let's throw it all out...

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Maybe we drop all public schools and just go with a voucher system. I know this idea will shake everybody up, but think about it, you do away with the teacher’s unions, tenure for teachers, winter/spring/summer breaks. Kids would go to school as many days as parents typically work. It would be like a job for kids! That’s why the Asian kids have a better grasp on their subjects than ours do. Think about it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Maybe we drop all public schools and just go with a voucher system. I know this idea will shake everybody up, but think about it, you do away with the teacher’s unions, tenure for teachers, winter/spring/summer breaks. Kids would go to school as many days as parents typically work. It would be like a job for kids! That’s why the Asian kids have a better grasp on their subjects than ours do. Think about it.

They have a better grasp because their parents consider education a top priority for their children. Their education system is completely different, and their teachers are valued much more highly as well.

[Rainger99]

They have a better grasp because their parents consider education a top priority for their children. Their education system is completely different, and their teachers are valued much more highly as well.

It isn’t just Asians. I am white and my parents, who didn’t go to college, made sure that I did. My parents grew up in the depression years and my mother told me that education was the key to getting out of poverty. If I had dropped out of high school, I don’t think I would be living in the Villages today.

Why is it that some ethnic groups value education and some don’t?

[Two Bills]

It isn’t just Asians. I am white and my parents, who didn’t go to college, made sure that I did. My parents grew up in the depression years and my mother told me that education was the key to getting out of poverty. If I had dropped out of high school, I don’t think I would be living in the Villages today.

Why is it that some ethnic groups value education and some don’t?

Asian children are driven by parents to succeed, especially sons.
If their children do well, the parents will have a good old age.
Basically an old age insurance policy.
Our youngest grandsons best friend at junior school was Chinese.
When school finished he went home and did hours of revision.
During school holidays he went to a further education crammer.
He loved coming to play at grandsons house when he was occasionally allowed, as grandson had toys to play with, and he only had educational books.
It is a cultural way of life handed down over centuries.
Children are bought up to look after parents in old age.
Much of western civilization has on the whole, lost that ethic.

[Whitley]

It's classified as a YA book. I think it shouldn't be. I think if I saw that in an elementary school library I'd have a word with the librarian just on that one aspect alone, because YA books don't belong in elementary schools in the first place.

I read an actual librarian's review, and it sounds like it shouldn't even be a YA book, though it might be an interesting type of book for 12th graders or college students who are studying feminist literature.

Rather than demand that the school SYSTEM remove the book from all libraries, I'd probably just have a talk with the librarian and point it out to them. Since that's their job - to determine what should or shouldn't be in their library.

I did exactly that when a similar book (based on the same theme in fact) showed up in the kids' section. It was a series, a 3 or 4 book series of the Sleeping Beauty story - by A.N. Roquelaure, also known as Ann Rice. It's a BDSM series that shouldn't be anywhere near minor children. But the librarian had no idea that it was NOT the Sleeping Beauty story she thought it was - until I pointed it out to her. She immediately removed it from the kids' section and stuck it in the office where I'm sure she spent some time deciding what to do about it.

Thank you for the answer. I agree with 99% of what you said. I disagree in that I do not believe we can leave it up to the librarian anymore. I can almost guarantee you that there are librarians on both sides of the extreme who would put inappropriate books on the shelves of grammar schools. Have an excellent Friday.

[SusanStCatherine]

I taught US History for 34 years. I loved my students and the community in which I was employed. At my age I would love to teach two or three classes during a semester. I think I could still relate in spite of the negative attitudes that are expressed by many. Kids are great and have great opportunities ahead of them. Unforunately schools do not hire on a part time basis.

My cousin currently teaches part-time at Ponte Vedra Beach high school in Florida. She's in her 70s. I'm not sure if she transitioned from full-time or not.

[Gigi3000]

There is a push to destroy public education. There are those that want to privatize it. Teachers are well aware of this push. Its not just by coincidence this is all going down.

[Pballer]

Odd how you ignore all of the positive things they teach about AA history...

Focusing on ONE "clarification" in ONE minute subsection is a cheap attempt at attacking the FL School system...

BTW, I DID read the link provided...

I don't think that children should be taught that slavery was like trade school, or arts and crafts at summer camp. The Florida school system invites ridicule.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It isn’t just Asians. I am white and my parents, who didn’t go to college, made sure that I did. My parents grew up in the depression years and my mother told me that education was the key to getting out of poverty. If I had dropped out of high school, I don’t think I would be living in the Villages today.

Why is it that some ethnic groups value education and some don’t?

I don't think it's an ethnic group thing. I think it's a cultural thing in whatever country you're referring to. Asia of course - isn't a country. Sadly that's another thing so many Americans don't know. They were taught it, but they didn't care enough to remember it and don't care enough to look it up when it comes up in conversation. There are many ethnic groups in Asia. They don't all put a high value on formal education. But governments and families in many Asian countries emphasize, encourage, and reward those who become well-educated, regardless of the ethnic group the student comes from.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thank you for the answer. I agree with 99% of what you said. I disagree in that I do not believe we can leave it up to the librarian anymore. I can almost guarantee you that there are librarians on both sides of the extreme who would put inappropriate books on the shelves of grammar schools. Have an excellent Friday.

Stop politicizing everything. The only thing a librarian should be on the side of, is literacy. That is ALL. Their personal opinion, their political affiliation (or lack thereof) should have NOTHING to do with their job. Ever. Librarians aren't just random people who look for a job and know the Dewey decimal system. It is a very niche specialization that requires a degree in the field. They are taught what should and should not be in the library, before they ever graduate from college.

Leave the content of the libraries up to the librarians. If they make a mistake, point it out to them so they can correct it.

[manaboutown]

They are taught what should and should not be in the library, before they ever graduate from college.

Leave the content of the libraries up to the librarians. If they make a mistake, point it out to them so they can correct it.

But who is teaching the librarians what content to select for their libraries, and what is their agenda?

Therein lies the dilemma.

[JMintzer]

I don't think that children should be taught that slavery was like trade school, or arts and crafts at summer camp. The Florida school system invites ridicule.

They're not... That was ONE minor point in ONE minor section of the curriculum...

If you check out the link, it covers a WIDE variety of topics. The good, the bad and the ugly...

[Normal]

But who is teaching the librarians what content to select for their libraries, and what is their agenda?

Therein lies the dilemma.

Obviously, some books need to stay out of our kid’s libraries. Not all books are “50 Shades of Grey”, but there are some who can harm our kids. Age appropriate content filtering is required.

[Boomer]

A friend asked me today if I ever feel like I am living in some alternate universe when hearing news of things like Florida schools being required to teach that slavery was just vocational education.

Every day it is something more incomprehensible than the day before.

Boomer

[Pballer]

They're not... That was ONE minor point in ONE minor section of the curriculum...

If you check out the link, it covers a WIDE variety of topics. The good, the bad and the ugly...

It's not just the trade school depiction of slavery. It's the Board of Education's curriculum of the 1920 Ocoee Florida Massacre - how there was some how fault on both sides. Along with this new curriculum, students should also be required to read George Orwell's novel 1984 so that they may have a better understanding of what exactly they are being fed.