Brownwood Paddock Square Traffic Pattern Change

[The Gazette]

On August 30, 2023, a 4-way stop will be replacing the 2-way stop currently in place at the intersection of West Torch Lake Drive and Shady Nook Run. If you have any questions or would like more information, please contact District Property Management at 352-753-4022. A link to the image can be found here.

More... (https://www.gazettenewsthevillages.com/brownwood-paddock-square-traffic-pattern-change/)

[DARFAP]

Totally expected

[fishon]

Original pattern.

[golfing eagles]

Totally expected

Absolutely. Once again play to the lowest common denominator of idiots who don't know how to drive. Just like dedicated left turn arrows when the road in the opposite direction is totally visible (Morse southbound at 44 and many others). As one commentator on TV put it years ag: "this is the wussification of America"

Now, let everyone start the "it's for safety" tirade.

[Catfishjeff]

It will make that intersection much safer for golf carts as it’s hard to see the cross traffic around the parked cars.

[Two Bills]

Well I think it's a great idea.
Now all four lanes get their chance to ignore the signs.:gc:

[Altavia]

Absolutely. Once again play to the lowest common denominator of idiots who don't know how to drive. Just like dedicated left turn arrows when the road in the opposite direction is totally visible (Morse southbound at 44 and many others). As one commentator on TV put it years ag: "this is the wussification of America"

Now, let everyone start the "it's for safety" tirade.

What's your hurry buddy, we're retired :-)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'd prefer we just get rid of all the stop signs everywhere. And traffic lights on 441. All these wussification rules take the fun out of driving I tell ya.

[golfing eagles]

I'd prefer we just get rid of all the stop signs everywhere. And traffic lights on 441. All these wussification rules take the fun out of driving I tell ya.

Not all, but some. I'd say over half the stop signs on MMPs should be yield signs. Of course, that wouldn't matter since drivers, especially cyclists blow through both. The lights on 441 are necessary for the most part. The dedicated left turn arrows that turn red when traffic going straight is green are for the most part another example of playing to the lowest common denominator. Yes, there are a few where vision of oncoming traffic is impaired, but at the rest any difficulty turning is because the driver is impaired (vision, skill set, alcohol or other)

[Bill14564]

Going through there and seeing the sections where it looks like stop lines have been painted over I always had the impression that this used to be a four-way stop. Certainly, that's how half the drivers treat it today.

If it had been a four-way stop then I wonder if the same company that recommended changing it to a two-way stop was paid again to now recommend the opposite.

[mntlblok]

Absolutely. Once again play to the lowest common denominator of idiots who don't know how to drive. Just like dedicated left turn arrows when the road in the opposite direction is totally visible (Morse southbound at 44 and many others). As one commentator on TV put it years ago: "this is the wussification of America"

Now, let everyone start the "it's for safety" tirade.

More observations than tirade. Some stuff that I've been a ponderin for a while. My wife pulled through that (or one similar- I'm still somewhat disoriented whilst in Brownwood) intersection after stopping once early on, assuming a four-way stop. She's usually not an idiot and I've since pondered the circumstances that led to her mal-move in front of the horn blaster who "knew" it wasn't a four-way stop. It *did* look a fair bit like one. Can't remember if there was traffic behind her from which she might have felt "time pressure" - and a potential horn blast. Time pressure and horn blasts can maybe have more influence on us than expected and in possibly unpredicted ways, as I'll try to point out later.

We finally got our cart and have been venturing out more and more for explorations, and for gradually getting a better "feel" for the vehicle. I believe we were at this very intersection on our recent outing that included the bridges over 44 and over the Turnpike - a most edifying experience.

I agree that seeing around all the parked vehicles requires some "creeping up". I *still* found it difficult to determine the number of stop signs at the intersection. I recall making a concerted effort to see if the sign for the street to my right had one. I commented at the time that the back side of its sign made it mighty difficult to tell whether it was a stop sign, and found the same later with a "yield" sign, and wondered if there might be a logical means of making said ID more apparent from behind. They're smaller than "standard". That's quaint, but that "safety" thing can and does sometimes come into realistic play. A surgeon, I suppose, could possibly see that from a different perspective. :-) (That's supposed to be a joke, thus the smiley). But, that reminded of the stop sign up north inside a TV neighborhood with the flashing red lights built into it, sitting all off to the side and otherwise not overly evident. Struck me as being a fine idea.

Those bridges and their associated hills and blind curves over those major thoroughfares are beasts that I'm sure are old hat to "regulars", but made me uncomfortable. It could be that I'll someday come to curves at high speeds in these carts, but I doubt it. Went through a couple of carts over several decades at another golf community in a previous life. This cart feels like a totally different experience. I had ordered ours *without* the capability to go faster than "standard", but it came with 23 mph option, and I told them to just leave it, figuring that it was probably the "real world" standard here and that I did have some control over the throttle. The previous carts I've owned went nothing *close* to as fast as these, and slowing on a curve was rarely felt necessary. I get the impression that I could roll this thing *easily* if I gave it any effort or simply misjudged a turn going downhill that was sharper than I had judged. Also, just traveling straight at max speed means making no sudden moves of the wheel beyond a minimum without losing control. The steering wheel feels *quite* reactive. Now, maybe I'm just one of those idiots who can't drive, but my history would suggest otherwise.

Back to those hills and curves with the cart bridges, I elected to err on the safe side and by the time I neared the bottom of that second one, a couple of other carts had caught me. Got a horn - maybe it was a "toot" rather than a "blare" - so I did my automatic arm raise of "where do you want me to go?" when being tailgated traffic in front of me, and then moved over and let both pass once that became an option. Might've expected a nod of appreciation or something similar. Maybe I just don't read folks well. Distinct possibility, but a lifetime of living with my "condition" has me significantly more literate with such "reads". As I thought about it, I could see where such a "toot" might be a "local rule" or standard as a means of announcing an intention of overtaking. Anybody know? Horn blasts sometimes don't come with enough "context" and sometimes even without an understanding for whom the blast was meant. Can see where it might even elicit an inappropriate response at times. . .

Anyway, I thought that I had put the August "Golf Cart Safety Clinic" on the Google Calendar, but now see that the September 20 version will now have to be our option. Seems likely that we'll have divined most of it "the hard way" by then.

Now, back to that "time pressure" thing. We've only been here a few months, but we've definitely gotten the "feel" that TV is very different "on average" than most of the rest of the country. On the the whole, people are significantly more considerate and maybe even act like they've just aced a civics course and committed to living what they've learnt. Which brings me to this one, specific exception - raking sand traps. These, presumably are the same folks who go to the trouble of returning their grocery carts to proper areas. :-) I find myself trying to figure out why so many don't rake. Have pondered that it's a time pressure thing - feeling like you don't want to be "that guy" who gets pointed at for holding up play. It also just came to mind that a seemingly high percentage of the footprints left behind are "short". :-) Might it be largely a "newbie" phenomenon? We're playing par three courses almost exclusively. But, have also wondered if there's some of that "broken window" psychology going on. . .
(Just had another thought. I *have* noticed an inordinately high rate of bad-moodness emminating from bunker exiters. Guess that could conceivably spill over into unexpected patterns of behavior. :-) )

Oh, and the "dedicated left turn arrows" is one of my all time favorite subjects! :-) My take is that their intention is to allow left turns to be made in locations - and at times - when such a move might be otherwise all but impossible. If visibility easily allows, then I *don't* believe the intent is "prevention" of (safely) turning left. If I'm sitting in a left turn lane with a "red arrow" lit in front of me, I have no problem with safely proceeding left if our direction has a green light and there's no oncoming traffic. The wifey disagrees. Have done it with police cars sitting at that same intersection - merely as a fun sociology experiment. :-) Have found police officers to be reasonable, non-idiots, open to reasonable debate. :-) Have not had them show any interest in my "illegal" left turn habits, however. What I *have* seen recently is that in that same situation, a "flashing" red arrow. Now that's something on which I could get on board. :-)

Can you tell that I have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning? Interestingly, am about to dip my toe into my first "club" meeting. Not much of a "joiner". This one is outdoors, so maybe a bit less intimidating. Any experience out there with a "humanist" club?? Oh, and how early is too early to mow the lawn on a Sunday morning? TIA

[maistocars]

Pretty good idea s folks with no stop sign stop anyway causing other issues.

[golfing eagles]

Pretty good idea s folks with no stop sign stop anyway causing other issues.

I do have to agree with that----kind of traffic control by acclamation :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Andyhope]

On August 30, 2023, a 4-way stop will be replacing the 2-way stop currently in place at the intersection of West Torch Lake Drive and Shady Nook Run. If you have any questions or would like more information, please contact District Property Management at 352-753-4022. A link to the image can be found here.

More... (https://www.gazettenewsthevillages.com/brownwood-paddock-square-traffic-pattern-change/)
Amen

[CosmicTrucker]

It is funny when you realize so few actually stop at stop signs around here.

[Vermilion Villager]

Trite, worn out response....AND....another participation trophy :eclipsee_gold_cup:

11,397 posts and STILL replying to every post......Here's yours....:pepper2::pepper2::eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Taltarzac725]

So, is this circle around the Square at Brownwood two way all the around or just on the side near the Barnstorm Theater?

[Bill14564]

So, is this circle around the Square at Brownwood two way all the around or just on the side near the Barnstorm Theater?

The "circle" (more like a square) immediately around the entertainment area is one-way all around.

The intersection that will be (re)gaining stop signs is on the next larger "ring" around the area and is two-way in its entirety.

[mntlblok]

Anyway, I thought that I had put the August "Golf Cart Safety Clinic" on the Google Calendar, but now see that the September 20 version will now have to be our option. Seems likely that we'll have divined most of it "the hard way" by then.



Found this. Officer Siemer did a fine job of clearing up my "gray areas". https://youtu.be/QcvwRmbZcFY?t=888

And, I now know what an LSV is. :-)

[mntlblok]

I like this thread. It’s a microcosm of what is wrong in America today

Offering solutions?

[wmcgowan]

good idea - 4 way stops help control the flow of traffic

[Bwanajim]

On August 30, 2023, a 4-way stop will be replacing the 2-way stop currently in place at the intersection of West Torch Lake Drive and Shady Nook Run. If you have any questions or would like more information, please contact District Property Management at 352-753-4022. A link to the image can be found here.

More... (https://www.gazettenewsthevillages.com/brownwood-paddock-square-traffic-pattern-change/)

I think it’s a great idea! Especially if this is the one by Cody’s you’re talking about.
It should be at all the four-way intersections around the Square. It’s difficult to see golf cars or cars coming because of the cars parked on the side of the road. It’s got nothing to do with idiots that can’t drive, it’s just simple common sense.

[Bill14564]

good idea - 4 way stops help control the flow of traffic

Do you even travel through that intersection?

The new stop will slow traffic on the primary exit from the square. Maybe it never gets that busy (but then why would a stop be necessary?) or maybe it gets very busy and this will cause traffic to back into the square.

Maybe next year we'll have a study that shows the best way to relieve traffic in that area is to remove the stop signs along West Torch Lane in order to facilitate movement.

[golfing eagles]

Offering solutions?

Yes——stop playing to the lowest common denominator. Some kids need to be left back, some teens need to go to trade school, and some drivers need to go back to driver’s Ed. Otherwise we are just dumbing down the whole country