Oh my goodness, Electric cart owners must read

[bcsnave]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)

[Randall55]

Thank you for posting this. It is a great reminder to all of us to be careful with lithium batteries. Call 911 if you see smoke or flames. Do not attempt to douse the fire yourself.

[bcsnave]

Not only religated to golf cars but the high intensity fires from lithium

JFRD warning about lithium batteries (https://www.news4jax.com/video/morning-show/2023/06/15/jfrd-warning-about-lithium-batteries/)

[UpNorth]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)

Need more details. Make, model, aftermarket add-on? Overcharging? Not worried about my EZ-Go Elite.

Gas carts catch fire too.

[Pairadocs]

Not only religated to golf cars but the high intensity fires from lithium

JFRD warning about lithium batteries (https://www.news4jax.com/video/morning-show/2023/06/15/jfrd-warning-about-lithium-batteries/)

Exactly ! While this post will never convince "electric cart devotees" or "gas cart diehards" to abandon their choices (and probably was not meant to influence decisions !), but to call attention to the need to be AWARE that batteries are not THE perfect solution to everything... the "vape" craze found batteries exploding and causing serious injury, ditto battery powered "skate boards", so autos and golf carts and lawn mowers are no different. The post is just a great reminder, even if it only reaches a few people.

[bcsnave]

Exactly ! While this post will never convince "electric cart devotees" or "gas cart diehards" to abandon their choices (and probably was not meant to influence decisions !), but to call attention to the need to be AWARE that batteries are not THE perfect solution to everything... the "vape" craze found batteries exploding and causing serious injury, ditto battery powered "skate boards", so autos and golf carts and lawn mowers are no different. The post is just a great reminder, even if it only reaches a few people.

And watch this report JFRD warning about lithium batteries (https://www.news4jax.com/video/morning-show/2023/06/15/jfrd-warning-about-lithium-batteries/)

[dhdallas]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my!

[margaretmattson]

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion, and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my! No one on this post bashed your choice for buying electric. This post was a warning that if you do have lithium-powered items in your home, be careful! Chemicals you cannot see or smell will ignite and your entire home will burn down because chemical fires are extremely difficult to extinguish. (even by highly trained firemen) Make certain your batteries have no leaks or damage and purchase the brand of battery the manufacturer suggests. I would also add, make certain your charger does not have a faulty wiring system.

[rsmurano]

EV technology isn’t ready yet to be widely used, or to be a replacement for combustion engines.
You know producing lithium batteries and especially discarding lithium batteries is very bad for the environment (hazardous waste items)? Check this out:

Carbon Footprint of Lithium-Ion Battery Production (vs Gasoline, Lead-Acid) (https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-offsets-credits/carbon-footprint-of-lithium-ion-battery-production/)

I’ll take a normal combustion engine car over an EV now (which I just did) and imo it might take EVs a few more decades to perfect the technology.

[Bill14564]

EV technology isn’t ready yet to be widely used, or to be a replacement for combustion engines.
You know producing lithium batteries and especially discarding lithium batteries is very bad for the environment (hazardous waste items)? Check this out:

Carbon Footprint of Lithium-Ion Battery Production (vs Gasoline, Lead-Acid) (https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-offsets-credits/carbon-footprint-of-lithium-ion-battery-production/)

I’ll take a normal combustion engine car over an EV now (which I just did) and imo it might take EVs a few more decades to perfect the technology.

It would seem that EV technology is being widely used as a replacement for combustion engines today. "I wouldn't buy one of those!" Fine, but your neighbor and his buddy already did. Cars, golf carts, and residential-grade lawn maintenance equipment powered by batteries are being widely purchased today.

I was surprised to find the article was not anti-battery.

[Lyarham]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)

Everybody freaks out over a lithium battery issue, while gasoline vehicles burn every day. We have lithium batteries in cell phones, iPads, laptops, hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles, and all of our cordless tools. Lithium is a way of life today

[TomPerry]

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

[Cobullymom]

Everybody freaks out over a lithium battery issue, while gasoline vehicles burn every day. We have lithium batteries in cell phones, iPads, laptops, hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles, and all of our cordless tools. Lithium is a way of life today
Yup just more toxic expensive waste for our dumps someday...

[Bill14564]

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

And why is that?

Is it because lithium batteries are exploding left and right leaving destruction in their wake and keeping the insurance companies and home builders in business?

Or, is it because there is a risk with lithium batteries, just as there is a risk with gasoline or compressed gases, and the Govt is not ready to accept that risk with 100+ lives.

[Oneiric]

BMW of Wesley Chapel recently had large fire destroying 10 new cars. They have large lithium batteries.

[Bill14564]

BMW of Wesley Chapel recently had large fire destroying 10 new cars. They have large lithium batteries.

What has large lithium batteries? All BMWs? The 10 new BMWs that were destroyed? The information I could find did not give a cause of the fire.

[OhioBuckeye]

There was one in Harbour Hills 2 or 3 yrs. ago that destroyed their home!

[Randall55]

What has large lithium batteries? All BMWs? The 10 new BMWs that were destroyed? The information I could find did not give a cause of the fire. I read a few articles regarding this. Check out the article in which a BMW caught fire in the garage of a homeowner in Wesley Chapel. Even though the cause of that fire is still under investigation, It will provide you with some insight.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my!

As in life, everything works like historical precedence, until it doesn't. .

human recency bias at work, because the human brain has a very hard time deciphering small probabilities. .

the future is always uncertain, sometimes more uncertain than at other times.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Everybody freaks out over a lithium battery issue, while gasoline vehicles burn every day. We have lithium batteries in cell phones, iPads, laptops, hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles, and all of our cordless tools. Lithium is a way of life today

although true in the simpliest of comparisons, the actual differences between gas and chemical fires are miles apart in intensity and extinguishment execution, and lithium files probably follow a non linear exponential intensity path with battery size, which of course the cultists want to ignore. .

[merrymini]

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

Coming from an administration that wants all government vehicles to be electric by 2035? I think listening to the government is always a mistake. They do not even listen to themselves! I have had an electric cart for over 8 years and have owned a tesla, I would not worry too much and you can stick to the nonflammable gas you use if I were you, you know, the one you use in your combustible engine.

[Bill14564]

I read a few articles regarding this. Check out the article in which a BMW caught fire in the garage of a homeowner in Wesley Chapel. Even though the cause of that fire is still under investigation, It will provide you with some insight.

Yep, saw that one. Seems BMW has a problem with cars catching fire, but long before they were electric.


- The article was from 2018 when I suspect there were not too many (any?) BMW EVs
- The article mentions the vehicle's engine, not battery or motor
- The article talks about 40 cars catching fire in the last five years which would go back to 2013 when I'm sure there were not a lot of BMW EVs
- The article mentions a 2017 recall of about one million vehicles for fire-related issues - there is no way BMW has 1 million EVs on the road in 2017


Post #15 seems to want to imply that the recent Wesley Chapel fire was caused by lithium batteries. Nothing in the available reporting on that fire gives any evidence of that. Previous reporting on BMW fires indicates that BMW has had an issue since well before they were using lithium batteries.

The recent fire *might* have been caused by the batteries but we don't know that yet.

[Randall55]

Yep, saw that one. Seems BMW has a problem with cars catching fire, but long before they were electric.


- The article was from 2018 when I suspect there were not too many (any?) BMW EVs
- The article mentions the vehicle's engine, not battery or motor
- The article talks about 40 cars catching fire in the last five years which would go back to 2013 when I'm sure there were not a lot of BMW EVs
- The article mentions a 2017 recall of about one million vehicles for fire-related issues - there is no way BMW has 1 million EVs on the road in 2017


Post #15 seems to want to imply that the recent Wesley Chapel fire was caused by lithium batteries. Nothing in the available reporting on that fire gives any evidence of that. Previous reporting on BMW fires indicates that BMW has had an issue since well before they were using lithium batteries.

The recent fire *might* have been caused by the batteries but we don't know that yet. That is how I see it. Lithium batteries were most likely not the cause of the BMW fires. Have to wait for the investigation though.

[oldtimes]

Lithium fires are more dangerous than gas fires and more difficult to put out. First Due: Operational Considerations for Fires that Involve Lithium-ion Batteries | Firehouse (https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/article/21288860/firefighting-considerations-for-fires-that-involve-lithiumion-batteries)

[Bill14564]

although true in the simpliest of comparisons, the actual differences between gas and chemical fires are miles apart in intensity and extinguishment execution, and lithium files probably follow a non linear exponential intensity path with battery size, which of course the cultists want to ignore. .

A gasoline fire *IS* a chemical fire.

A lithium battery fire would be a flammable metals fire.

It would be interesting to see statistics showing the frequency of fires for gas and electric vehicles: how many engine fires for every 100,000 gasoline engines and how many battery fires for every 100,000 EVs? Does something like that exist?

It would also be interesting to see how that number changes over time. Gasoline engines became safer over time and EVs are relatively new. Are they dangerous now but not as dangerous as three years ago or are they generally safe now and getting safer every year?

[Southwest737]

Reminder to gasoline powered carts. Gasoline can burn.
https://www.**************.com/2020/02/10/landscaper-suffers-major-equipment-loss-as-result-of-fire-in-the-villages/

[dtennent]

Lithium fires are more dangerous than gas fires and more difficult to put out. First Due: Operational Considerations for Fires that Involve Lithium-ion Batteries | Firehouse (https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/article/21288860/firefighting-considerations-for-fires-that-involve-lithiumion-batteries)
True, and gasoline fires are more dangerous than wood fires. As our technology evolves, we learn to respond in how we handle the emergencies coming out of that technology. In the near future, fire departments will have the extinguishers for lithium battery fires. Perhaps a powder of salt sprayed over the fire (no water, of course) which will prevent oxygen from reaching lithium. That is a bit simplistic but you get the idea.

[Randall55]

Reminder to gasoline powered carts. Gasoline can burn.
https://www.**************.com/2020/02/10/landscaper-suffers-major-equipment-loss-as-result-of-fire-in-the-villages/ Errr...did you read the article attached to the OP? Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish even by trained fireman. Because of this, those fires cause extreme damage. Gas fires can be extinguished quickly.

[Limey]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)
Which is why I prefer regular batteries.

[bcsnave]

Which is why I prefer regular batteries.

Huh???

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Which is why I prefer regular batteries.

regular = lead acid batteries. .

[bcsnave]

regular = lead acid batteries. .

So Coach.....if that is "regular" then what is a "LARGE"?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Q&A: Fire on board the Fremantle Highway ship – DW – 07/30/2023 (https://www.dw.com/en/fremantle-highway-ship-fire-qa/a-66385434)

not the first car carrying ship to burn down by lithium ion batteries. .

one other on sunk in the atlantic. .

another one has a time lapse video of the cars on deck going from all okay to all burned overnight. . I can't find it at the moment. .

[JMintzer]

So Coach.....if that is "regular" then what is a "LARGE"?

That would be a "Venti" battery...

(With a nod to Paul Rudd... https://youtu.be/Tbb7a404i78?si=RFggLnxHcn5U8Tug)

[bcsnave]

That would be a "Venti" battery...

(With a nod to Paul Rudd... https://youtu.be/Tbb7a404i78?si=RFggLnxHcn5U8Tug)

Ah...thanks for the clarification...so a Venti battery is 20oz battery..which is different than a 6v golf cart battery (approx. 60-70lbs)..must me more like a 9v battery... I am glad that is cleared up

[Bill14564]

Q&A: Fire on board the Fremantle Highway ship – DW – 07/30/2023 (https://www.dw.com/en/fremantle-highway-ship-fire-qa/a-66385434)

not the first car carrying ship to burn down by lithium ion batteries. .

one other on sunk in the atlantic. .

another one has a time lapse video of the cars on deck going from all okay to all burned overnight. . I can't find it at the moment. .

The ship that burned was carrying EVs. That does not mean that lithium ion batteries burned the ship down. It *could* be the case that the batteries started the fire and it *could* be the case that the batteries made the fire worse. It also could be the case that the other 3300 vehicles had something to do with it.

The Allianz insurance company records that 209 ship fires were reported last year. That is the highest number in a decade, up 17% on 2021. Thirteen of those fires occurred on car carriers — but it is not clear how many of them involved electric vehicles.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So Coach.....if that is "regular" then what is a "LARGE"?

large is relative sizes of same types of batteries

D Cell versus Marine Deep Cycle cart battery is small versus large

Ryobi lithium tool battery versus golf cart battery is small versus large

DBD

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The ship that burned was carrying EVs. That does not mean that lithium ion batteries burned the ship down. It *could* be the case that the batteries started the fire and it *could* be the case that the batteries made the fire worse. It also could be the case that the other 3300 vehicles had something to do with it.

The Allianz insurance company records that 209 ship fires were reported last year. That is the highest number in a decade, up 17% on 2021. Thirteen of those fires occurred on car carriers — but it is not clear how many of them involved electric vehicles.

hmmm, circumstantial evidence, yes, and in public trial here in the villages . .

I saw two videos of electric cards on deck on a very small cargo ship, the first video was of waves coming over the deck and the cars starting on fire, and the last video was of all the cars burned on the deck. . .

now that was not circumstantial, but a very specific example of why transportation departments want to ban electric vehicles from under deck, but the above deck is more hazardous with contact with sea water.

So the world is getting into a circular argument of agreeing that lithium ion batteries are a higher risk, that the world of green believes that this is the future so we can't stop, and that the safety protocols and systems are lagging and need updating to something yet to be determined as safe as gas powered vehicles . . .

however, if all you are fighting is circumstantial versus factual evidence, that doesn't change the increased risk with lithium ion versus lead acid batteries, and the type of fire and extinguishment is hotter and harder, which is factual. .

[Bill14564]

hmmm, circumstantial evidence, yes, and in public trial here in the villages . .

...


however, if all you are fighting is circumstantial versus factual evidence, that doesn't change the increased risk with lithium ion versus lead acid batteries, and the type of fire and extinguishment is hotter and harder, which is factual. .

There is certainly an increased risk with lithium vs lead batteries but is there an increased risk with batteries in EVs vs gasoline in cars? The statistics in the article show that fires happen, even on ships not carrying cars. Fires do happen on car carriers, though this article that seems to be implying that lithium batteries are dangerous doesn't provide statistics to show that lithium batteries were involved.

While correlation does not prove causation, the information in the article does not even show correlation.

I am not ready to give up my electric cart or my electric hedge trimmer or my e-bike (if I owned one) because one of 13 car carriers that burned had an EV onboard (500 out of 3800) or because there was a fire on at a BMW dealership and some BMWs are EVs (did they even have vehicles on the 3rd floor?).

Be aware? Yes. Be concerned? Maybe. Avoid EVs and other e-stuff because of batteries? Not at this point.

[oldtimes]

There is certainly an increased risk with lithium vs lead batteries but is there an increased risk with batteries in EVs vs gasoline in cars? The statistics in the article show that fires happen, even on ships not carrying cars. Fires do happen on car carriers, though this article that seems to be implying that lithium batteries are dangerous doesn't provide statistics to show that lithium batteries were involved.

While correlation does not prove causation, the information in the article does not even show correlation.

I am not ready to give up my electric cart or my electric hedge trimmer or my e-bike (if I owned one) because one of 13 car carriers that burned had an EV onboard (500 out of 3800) or because there was a fire on at a BMW dealership and some BMWs are EVs (did they even have vehicles on the 3rd floor?).

Be aware? Yes. Be concerned? Maybe. Avoid EVs and other e-stuff because of batteries? Not at this point.

Yes gas vehicles catch fire also but lithium fires burn hotter, explode more readily and release toxic gasses. They are exponentially more difficult to put out and can reignite as long as 24 hours later. Gas vehicles do not easily explode and are much easier to put out. The explosion that you hear from a gas vehicle fire is more likely the tires than the gas tank. Ask any firefighter.

[Bill14564]

Yes gas vehicles catch fire also but lithium fires burn hotter, explode more readily and release toxic gasses. They are exponentially more difficult to put out and can reignite as long as 24 hours later. Gas vehicles do not easily explode and are much easier to put out. The explosion that you hear from a gas vehicle fire is more likely the tires than the gas tank. Ask any firefighter.

I bet a large number of those 3,300 gas vehicles on the car carrier that burned did explode. Lithium batteries do not easily explode and, since they are metal, rarely catch fire.

But that is entirely beside the point!

100% agree that a lithium battery fire is dangerous. No argument.

Were either the BMW dealership fire or the car carrier fire caused by lithium batteries? Just because lithium batteries were in the vicinity does not mean they were involved or were the cause.

It is possible that some of the EVs were located on the ship such that they were involved in the fire. It is possible that some of the batteries caught fire due to the extreme temperatures they would have been subjected to. This might have extended the duration of the fire. But with two "possible"s and one "might" it is far less than certain that the lithium batteries were a factor.

[Vermilion Villager]

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

No but they do allow them on the plane. Try checking in with a 5 gallon can of gas the next time you get on the airplane and see what the FAA says..........:police::mornincoffee:

[Southwest737]

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner has two lithium ion batteries used to supply backup power.

[ron32162]

This is also happening with the Electric bikes

[TomPerry]

And why is that?

Is it because lithium batteries are exploding left and right leaving destruction in their wake and keeping the insurance companies and home builders in business?

Or, is it because there is a risk with lithium batteries, just as there is a risk with gasoline or compressed gases, and the Govt is not ready to accept that risk with 100+ lives.
Gasoline in a vehicle tank being stored in a garage with no action being taken on it is extremely less hazardous than lithium batteries being in a garage hooked up to a charger and charging at a high rate!! But then again, “arguing facts and logic with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end”.

[Bill14564]

Gasoline in a vehicle tank being stored in a garage with no action being taken on it is extremely less hazardous than lithium batteries being in a garage hooked up to a charger and charging at a high rate!! But then again, “arguing facts and logic with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end”.

Where did gas tanks and garages come from? Only a fool tries to argue when they can't follow the conversation.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

There is certainly an increased risk with lithium vs lead batteries but is there an increased risk with batteries in EVs vs gasoline in cars? The statistics in the article show that fires happen, even on ships not carrying cars. Fires do happen on car carriers, though this article that seems to be implying that lithium batteries are dangerous doesn't provide statistics to show that lithium batteries were involved.

While correlation does not prove causation, the information in the article does not even show correlation.

I am not ready to give up my electric cart or my electric hedge trimmer or my e-bike (if I owned one) because one of 13 car carriers that burned had an EV onboard (500 out of 3800) or because there was a fire on at a BMW dealership and some BMWs are EVs (did they even have vehicles on the 3rd floor?).

Be aware? Yes. Be concerned? Maybe. Avoid EVs and other e-stuff because of batteries? Not at this point.

NTSB: Used vehicle battery caused weeklong cargo ship fire (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/12/17/ntsb-used-vehicle-battery-caused-weeklong-cargo-ship-fire/)
Reddit - Dive into anything (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/comments/11t4hw3/cars_getting_transported_on_an_open_deck_catch_on/)

regular batteries caused the fires. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIeq22UGyn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQDhls-A44

lithium ion batteries caused the fires . .

so batteries cause fires, whether lead acid or lithium ion, whether gas or electric. . and since lithium ion is a more dangerous fire, intensity and difficulty putting out, everything will be fine, until it isn't, just like everything else where historically the risk is very, very low, but not zero. Some of use don't like that risk to reward, others play the odds. .

neither are wrong, but one has the opportunity to be very disappointed or inconvenienced. ..

good luck. .

[MorTech]

I suspect it was a DIY lithium setup. The EZGO Elite lithium charges a about 0.15C which makes a thermal runaway event near zero likelihood. EZGO has sold over 150,000 Lithium carts. The EV will never replace hydrocarbon propulsion cuz, um, Physics. EV makes sense in products up to about some passenger cars and some delivery vans but does not make sense otherwise. You can not beat a hydrocarbon for motive energy density...And you are not carrying a 100kw bomb underneath you that produces its own oxygen as it burns. EVs can be mobile crematoriums so be careful.

Factoid: If you try to extinguish a lithium battery fire with CO2 smothering, you will just be feeding the flame with oxygen because the energy of the lithium fire is so high that it will break the carbon/oxygen bond. The only way to put it out is douse it with lots of water until it cools to a stop.

[jimjamuser]

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/06/21/home-destroyed-in-e-town-after-lithium-batteries-in-golf-cart-catch-fire/)
New technologies tend to frighten people. Batteries will improve and become safer. In 1900 people were VERY MAD that those "newfangled" automobiles were scaring the horses.

[jarodrig]

Oh my goodness ! ICE vehicle owners must read !!!


Orlando firefighters combat vehicle fire in downtown - Orlando-News.com (https://www.orlando-news.com/2023/08/25/orlando-firefighters-combat-vehicle-fire-in-downtown/)

[oldtimes]

Oh mi goodness ! ICE vehicle owners must read !!!


Orlando firefighters combat vehicle fire in downtown - Orlando-News.com (https://www.orlando-news.com/2023/08/25/orlando-firefighters-combat-vehicle-fire-in-downtown/)

Crews arrived on the scene within 4 minutes of receiving the call. Upon arrival, firefighters ensured that the occupants of the vehicle had safely exited before they rapidly extinguished the fire. An EV would have burned for several hours.

[jarodrig]

Crews arrived on the scene within 4 minutes of receiving the call. Upon arrival, firefighters ensured that the occupants of the vehicle had safely exited before they rapidly extinguished the fire. An EV would have burned for several hours.

4 minutes !! That’s great . I’m sure that the owner jumped right in and drove it home after the fire was “quickly” extinguished !

There are MANY , MANY more car fires involving ICE vehicles than EV’s …. Probably at least 10 to 1 but you can research that if you’re interested.

Granted , there are MANY, MANY more ICE vehicles than EV’s but guess what ?

The end result is the same ….. both cars will be totaled by the insurance companies………..

The point I was trying to make is that the sky, in fact , is not falling !!!

[oldtimes]

4 minutes !! That’s great . I’m sure that the owner jumped right in and drove it home after the fire was “quickly” extinguished !

There are MANY , MANY more car fires involving ICE vehicles than EV’s …. Probably at least 10 to 1 but you can research that if you’re interested.

Granted , there are MANY, MANY more ICE vehicles than EV’s but guess what ?

The end result is the same ….. both cars will be totaled by the insurance companies………..

The point I was trying to make is that the sky, in fact , is not falling !!!

That is not the point. The point is that it takes several hours for a fire crew to extinguish, can use up to 3,000-8,000 gallons of water, releases highly toxic gas and has a greater tendency to explode. Yes both cars will be totalled but one is far more dangerous. You can research that if you’re interested.

[jarodrig]

That is not the point. The point is that it takes several hours for a fire crew to extinguish, can use up to 3,000-8,000 gallons of water, releases highly toxic gas and has a greater tendency to explode. Yes both cars will be totalled but one is far more dangerous. You can research that if you’re interested.

When you do the math , ICE vehicles are far more dangerous and and destructive to the environment than EV’s simply on numbers alone and that’s not even considering the emissions debate !!

There are HUNDREDS of ICE car fires vs a small handful of EV fires YEARLY. So the total man hours spent on extinguishing ICE car fires, water used , toxins from all the plastic in the vehicles exponentially exceed the time spent on extinguishing EV fires. You can research that if you want to ! ;)

[oldtimes]

When you do the math , ICE vehicles are far more dangerous and and destructive to the environment than EV’s simply on numbers alone and that’s not even considering the emissions debate !!

There are HUNDREDS of ICE car fires vs a small handful of EV fires YEARLY. So the total man hours spent on extinguishing ICE car fires, water used , toxins from all the plastic in the vehicles exponentially exceed the time spent on extinguishing EV fires. You can research that if you want to ! ;)

BTW, you DON’T use water to extinguish lithium battery fires so the water use you suggested is a moot point ! You can ALSO research that if you’re interested !! ;)

EV sales account for 1% of the vehicles on the road and yes you do use water, lots of it. Don't argue with a firefighter.

[jarodrig]

EV sales account for 1% of the vehicles on the road and yes you do use water, lots of it. Don't argue with a firefighter.

Yes , that why I edited ! And I've already pointed out the difference in numbers between ICE and EV ‘s !

Don’t argue with a police officer that shows up to allow you nozzle nuts to perform your duties safely ! :)

BTW, it’s more like 20,000 gals to combat an EV fire….. yes , I researched it !! LOL !!!

[oldtimes]

Yes , that why I edited ! And I've already pointed out the difference in numbers between ICE and EV ‘s !

Don’t argue with a police officer that shows up to allow you nozzle nuts to perform your duties safely ! :)

BTW, it’s more like 20,000 gals to combat an EV fire….. yes , I researched it !! LOL !!!

Or just gets in the way…

[jarodrig]

Or just gets in the way…

Only when necessary !

Thanks for your service, brother.

I have 31 yrs of full time service with the Rochester NY PD and DA’s Office.

How about you ?

[BrianL99]

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my!


Thankfully, gasoline powered equipment and golf carts are immune to fires.

[JMintzer]

Thankfully, gasoline powered equipment and golf carts are immune to fires.

Thankfully, no one said or even suggested such a thing...

[Randall55]

Oh my goodness ! ICE vehicle owners must read !!!


Orlando firefighters combat vehicle fire in downtown - Orlando-News.com (https://www.orlando-news.com/2023/08/25/orlando-firefighters-combat-vehicle-fire-in-downtown/) err....the fire was quickly extinguished in Orlando. The warning of OP is that a lithium fire is difficult to extinguish causing extreme damage to property. If a lithium battery catches fire in your garage, you are going to lose your entire home. It is a warning for homeowners to be mindful. Make sure your battery is not damaged or leaking, use only the brand of battery recommended by the manufacturer, make certain charger has no faulty wiring. You have a less chance of losing your home if you do these things.

[Topspinmo]

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner has two lithium ion batteries used to supply backup power.


I did remember something with those batteries on some airplanes And wasn’t they grounded cause of those batteries for short time/

[Kelevision]

How Smartphone Batteries Can Catch Fire—and How to Prevent It | iFixit News (https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fire-and-how-to-prevent-it)
Now we can focus on cell phone fires for a while.

[bcsnave]

How Smartphone Batteries Can Catch Fire—and How to Prevent It | iFixit News (https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fire-and-how-to-prevent-it)
Now we can focus on cell phone fires for a while.
So would that be a "BURNER" phone

[jimjamuser]

So would that be a "BURNER" phone
Nice!

[jimjamuser]

NTSB: Used vehicle battery caused weeklong cargo ship fire (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/12/17/ntsb-used-vehicle-battery-caused-weeklong-cargo-ship-fire/)
Reddit - Dive into anything (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/comments/11t4hw3/cars_getting_transported_on_an_open_deck_catch_on/)

regular batteries caused the fires. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIeq22UGyn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQDhls-A44

lithium ion batteries caused the fires . .

so batteries cause fires, whether lead acid or lithium ion, whether gas or electric. . and since lithium ion is a more dangerous fire, intensity and difficulty putting out, everything will be fine, until it isn't, just like everything else where historically the risk is very, very low, but not zero. Some of use don't like that risk to reward, others play the odds. .

neither are wrong, but one has the opportunity to be very disappointed or inconvenienced. ..

good luck. .
Progress will be made in batteries for E-vehicles - they will get better and SAFER because there are so many advantages to E-vehicles. One advantage is a lower center of gravity which increases BOTH safety and speed of accelerating and decelerating (braking). There are many fewer moving parts so EVENTUALLY, ELECTRIC VEHICLES will COST less than GAS. An electric motor moves in a circle - gas engine pistons slap around going up and down. There are also other advantages.
........Gasoline is a fire hazard and has exploded on occasion. I don't have the exact statistics, but I would be willing to bet that gasoline vehicles burn down homes at a GREATER rate than E-vehicles.

[jimjamuser]

4 minutes !! That’s great . I’m sure that the owner jumped right in and drove it home after the fire was “quickly” extinguished !

There are MANY , MANY more car fires involving ICE vehicles than EV’s …. Probably at least 10 to 1 but you can research that if you’re interested.

Granted , there are MANY, MANY more ICE vehicles than EV’s but guess what ?

The end result is the same ….. both cars will be totaled by the insurance companies………..

The point I was trying to make is that the sky, in fact , is not falling !!!
Good logical post.

[jimjamuser]

When you do the math , ICE vehicles are far more dangerous and and destructive to the environment than EV’s simply on numbers alone and that’s not even considering the emissions debate !!

There are HUNDREDS of ICE car fires vs a small handful of EV fires YEARLY. So the total man hours spent on extinguishing ICE car fires, water used , toxins from all the plastic in the vehicles exponentially exceed the time spent on extinguishing EV fires. You can research that if you want to ! ;)
personally, I think that the emissions (CO2) of ICE vehicles IS the MOST important thing to discuss. Man-made (from mostly IC engine vehicles) Global Warming IS what is causing RECORD temperatures in Fl and around the world this summer. Each year the record temperatures are predicted by scientists to continue and get WORSE. The main solution is MORE Electric Vehicles and fewer gas vehicles.

[BrianL99]

personally, I think that the emissions (CO2) of ICE vehicles IS the MOST important thing to discuss. Man-made (from mostly IC engine vehicles) Global Warming IS what is causing RECORD temperatures in Fl and around the world this summer. Each year the record temperatures are predicted by scientists to continue and get WORSE. The main solution is MORE Electric Vehicles and fewer gas vehicles.

Which flavor of Kool-Aid do you prefer?

[JMintzer]

Progress will be made in batteries for E-vehicles - they will get better and SAFER because there are so many advantages to E-vehicles. One advantage is a lower center of gravity which increases BOTH safety and speed of accelerating and decelerating (braking). There are many fewer moving parts so EVENTUALLY, ELECTRIC VEHICLES will COST less than GAS. An electric motor moves in a circle - gas engine pistons slap around going up and down. There are also other advantages.
........Gasoline is a fire hazard and has exploded on occasion. I don't have the exact statistics, but I would be willing to bet that gasoline vehicles burn down homes at a GREATER rate than E-vehicles.

personally, I think that the emissions (CO2) of ICE vehicles IS the MOST important thing to discuss. Man-made (from mostly IC engine vehicles) Global Warming IS what is causing RECORD temperatures in Fl and around the world this summer. Each year the record temperatures are predicted by scientists to continue and get WORSE. The main solution is MORE Electric Vehicles and fewer gas vehicles.

https://media.tenor.com/Rvb4PuhL1IAAAAAd/tommy-lee-jones-no-country-for-old-men.gif

[fdpaq0580]

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

Don't imagine I could ship a can or plastic jug of gasoline by plane either. But we can store it at home in the garage. Just accept the reminder that batteries, like gas, can cause fires. Thank you!

[jimjamuser]

Which flavor of Kool-Aid do you prefer?
I could ask what flavor of Global Warming coral reef destruction do some people prefer?

[BrianL99]

I could ask what flavor of Global Warming coral reef destruction do some people prefer?

The earth evolves. If it didn't, we'd still have dinosaurs. Oh wait ... we still have some and many have retired in TV.

[bcsnave]

Which flavor of Kool-Aid do you prefer?

Myself, I like grape

[bcsnave]

Kool aid

[jimjamuser]

The earth evolves. If it didn't, we'd still have dinosaurs. Oh wait ... we still have some and many have retired in TV.
OK the earth evolves to a certain extent. The problem IS MAN-MADE global warming, which IS happening so fast in the last 10 years that it has surprised climate scientists. CO2 from IC car and truck engines ends up in the upper atmosphere and reflects HEAT. It IS man-made. Take a look at a graph of world population growth - it shows a HUGE, rapid increase since 1950. There are so many people on earth that are putting out pollution that it DOES affect the earth's climate - thus MAN-MADE global warming. The oceans have risen greatly during the last 10 years. The coral reefs are dying. Animal species are dying because they can't adapt to the HEAT in their region.
.........Anyone who takes the time to READ even a little about Global Warming will get an understanding and be alarmed. Many people in The Villages will live for another 30 years. During that time the ocean will rise enough that an average of several miles of coast and homes and buildings will be underwater. Some smart people are already selling their beachside homes in Fl.
.........We have a hurricane coming toward us right now That will be MUCH STRONGER because of the RECORD HEAT in the Gulf. That's NOT just me talking, it is all over the weather channels. And Yes, they will use the term - Global Warming. Big hurricanes last year and RECORD HEAT in the Gulf - isn't it getting hard to ignore?

[jimjamuser]

The earth evolves. If it didn't, we'd still have dinosaurs. Oh wait ... we still have some and many have retired in TV.
That's VERY CUTE, but there is very little there, there!

[JMintzer]

OK the earth evolves to a certain extent. The problem IS MAN-MADE global warming, which IS happening so fast in the last 10 years that it has surprised climate scientists. CO2 from IC car and truck engines ends up in the upper atmosphere and reflects HEAT. It IS man-made. Take a look at a graph of world population growth - it shows a HUGE, rapid increase since 1950. There are so many people on earth that are putting out pollution that it DOES affect the earth's climate - thus MAN-MADE global warming. The oceans have risen greatly during the last 10 years. The coral reefs are dying. Animal species are dying because they can't adapt to the HEAT in their region.
.........Anyone who takes the time to READ even a little about Global Warming will get an understanding and be alarmed. Many people in The Villages will live for another 30 years. During that time the ocean will rise enough that an average of several miles of coast and homes and buildings will be underwater. Some smart people are already selling their beachside homes in Fl.
.........We have a hurricane coming toward us right now That will be MUCH STRONGER because of the RECORD HEAT in the Gulf. That's NOT just me talking, it is all over the weather channels. And Yes, they will use the term - Global Warming. Big hurricanes last year and RECORD HEAT in the Gulf - isn't it getting hard to ignore?

What about all of the NATURAL OCCURRING CO2 (which makes up more than 95% of the atmospheric CO2)? Humans are only responsible for about 4%...

[bcsnave]

What about all of the NATURAL OCCURRING CO2 (which makes up more than 95% of the atmospheric CO2)? Humans are only responsible for about 4%...

Oh man I read all this and think some of the folks here don't know Jack. If they did, ol' Dr Jack could end all of this nonsense and stop the human effects of this global warming.

So My advice for the folks that are upset about the Human Invervention and impacts of the humans on the environment. Follow what Dr Jack started and do your part to take the iniative yourself to end this. DO YOUR PART! Start by looking within and have the courage to save your fellow man.

Oh and if you don't know Jack, his last name starts with Ka and ends with Vorkian