Non-Traded REITs

[Caymus]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

[Plinker]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

Tread cautiously. Fees range from 10 to as much as 15%. Must be an accredited investor to purchase. May have long commitment period and may be hard to sell quickly. Strongly suggest you switch to a fee-only advisor. Fee-based is another way of saying commission. My opinions.

[Stu from NYC]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

Why would a non traded REIT be better than a standard one? The difficulty in selling would certainly turn me off not to mention high cost of trading.

[retiredguy123]

My opinion is to stay away from non-traded REITs. If a fee only advisor recommends them, find another advisor. The people who make money on REITs are those who set them up and manage them, and the brokers who sell them for a commission.

[Caymus]

Tread cautiously. Fees range from 10 to as much as 15%. Must be an accredited investor to purchase. May have long commitment period and may be hard to sell quickly. Strongly suggest you switch to a fee-only advisor. Fee-based is another way of saying commission. My opinions.

Thanks

I do not have an advisor at this time. I have about 6 that I am evaluating. This last one also appears to be suggesting annuities without using the word annuity.:smiley:

[retiredguy123]

Thanks

I do not have an advisor at this time. I have about 6 that I am evaluating. This last one also appears to be suggesting annuities without using the word annuity.:smiley:
I would run away from that advisor.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in).

This question should not be difficult:

The answer should be something like this:
1) What are your annual expenses before ANY discretionary spending?
2) what are, if any, pension payouts, annually?
3) what is, if taking, your social security payout, annually?
4) what is your non qualified, taxable investment interest?
5) what is line 1 minus line 2 minus line 3 minus line 4 to cover all living expenses?

6) What percent is line 5 of your IRA + taxable account total?
7) if less than 4%, then rule of thumb, great!

7) take 4% of your IRA , and subtract line 5 and that is your discretionary, fun spendable amount. .

Note: this calculation is only a starting point, and doesn't take into account the taxable implication of your income less the standard deduction times the income bracket rate of say 12% (estimate)

I am not an advisor, but can help you create an excel workbook model to start to estimate this over your lifetime. . background experience includes corporate finance forecasting and operational spending model building. .. which is a bit more complex than you as an individual or as a couple.

Once you actually see the assumptions, and the balances and outflows. . the light bulb should go on to answer the question: How much should you pay yourself? prior to RMDs?

excluding any conversions to ROTH IRAs. . DM me if you want to do it yourself prior to seeing a fee based advisor just to have perspective of how many zeros should the answer be. .

finance guy

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.


Lets agree on a concept:
you can take out any amount from your IRA, but you don't have to spend all of what you take out. You can rollout it over into your taxable account, and keep on having the money grow tax free if you like, so don't think in terms of paying yourself and having to spend it all. .

So you can still maintain your lifestyle as long as you pay the required taxes and reinvest whatever you don't use, tax free. .

finance guy

[Caymus]

This question should not be difficult:

The answer should be something like this:
1) What are your annual expenses before ANY discretionary spending?
2) what are, if any, pension payouts, annually?
3) what is, if taking, your social security payout, annually?
4) what is your non qualified, taxable investment interest?
5) what is line 1 minus line 2 minus line 3 minus line 4 to cover all living expenses?

6) What percent is line 5 of your IRA + taxable account total?
7) if less than 4%, then rule of thumb, great!

7) take 4% of your IRA , and subtract line 5 and that is your discretionary, fun spendable amount. .

Note: this calculation is only a starting point, and doesn't take into account the taxable implication of your income less the standard deduction times the income bracket rate of say 12% (estimate)

I am not an advisor, but can help you create an excel workbook model to start to estimate this over your lifetime. . background experience includes corporate finance forecasting and operational spending model building. .. which is a bit more complex than you as an individual or as a couple.

Once you actually see the assumptions, and the balances and outflows. . the light bulb should go on to answer the question: How much should you pay yourself? prior to RMDs?

excluding any conversions to ROTH IRAs. . DM me if you want to do it yourself prior to seeing a fee based advisor just to have perspective of how many zeros should the answer be. .

finance guy

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:

[manaboutown]

I am certain the internet is replete with retirement budget forms and worksheets.

TIAA offers fairly comprehensible all-inclusive separate retirement income and retirement expenses worksheets. https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/r/retirement_expense-income_worksheets.pdf

[Stu from NYC]

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:

A very very rough starting point would be figure out your normal expenses for the month with total.

Take your investments total them up and multiply by 4%

How do the two numbers compare? That should give you a basic idea of your financial condition.

Remember I did add two very's.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:

OK, so you want to change your basic lifestyle because you can? or you should? or why? You do realize that people have a really hard time changing after the age of about 35, unless a major life event happens. This concept is very strong in people, and you appear to be struggling with that if you understand the concept, and are paying someone else to convince you to do it? or you can? But lets say the number is $X. . . do you have a plan for $X? or are you now going to make one up because someone is giving you permission to spend $X because you can't give yourself permission? or even know how to spend it?

Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead might be more accurate than you realize. . and you did admit to it in a freudian slip. .

behavioral finance guy

[daniel200]

I have heard the pitches for nontraded REITS. I have never invested in them. The fact that they are nontraded means that if you desire to sell it will be to someone who knows he is the only buyer. You will get a bad price and he will get a good price.

The fact that they are non traded, significantly impacts the accounting rules that they must abide to. You will have less protection.

There is a wealth of information available for publicly traded reits. There is a dearth of info available for nontraded reits. And because these nontraded reits are very small (as compared to public traded reits), means that very few people (if any) are analysing their finanvials.

If you really need REITS, buy publicly traded ones, where the fees will not take 10% of your money on day 1.

I would run fast from any advisor promoting these.

[retiredguy123]

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:
The math is easy. If you have a balanced portfolio, you should be able to spend about 4 percent of it every year. But, if you have been a saver most of your life, forcing yourself to become a spender will not make you happy.

[La lamy]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

I relate to what I've highlighted above. I decided to let myself spend as I wish for a year and totalled how much it was. I still wasn't able to go to restaurants (what a waste of money, too much salt, can't put my feet up, etc...), and the only thing I did end up doing more is a bi-monthly massage.

After being burned by bad investment advising in the past, I educated myself and now only buy dividend stocks that I believe in. I live off the dividends and leftover cash from sold home and keep my income at 15% taxable (up to about $53,000 in Canada).

I would definitely stay away from non-traded REITs. Here is a quote about them which is an absolute NO GO for me:
"In a non-traded REIT, investors usually have just two options for selling shares of the stock: wait for the REIT to have an IPO and become a publicly traded entity, or wait for the REIT to liquidate its holdings."

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

Good luck and do try to treat yourself!

[nsantelli]

For a short time I was a financial advisor. DISCLAIMER - I no longer hold any certifications of any kind nor do I give any financial advice of any kind. However, I do share past experiences.
When I started in the advisor business, Monte Carlo simulation was getting a lot of attention. However, the firm I worked for did not use it because it was considered too “formula”. It did not take into consideration, the individual needs and desires of the client. We called it the lazy advisor tool. However, some firms did use it as a starting point when developing a distribution plan. Also, at that time non-traded REITs were becoming popular among advisors because of the high fees earned by selling these products. Non-traded RIETs and variable annuities are huge profit centers for many financial advisory companies.

[PersonOfInterest]

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:

Here's the mathematical model. Calculate the number of years until your death. Divide the amount of your assets exceeding living expenses by the number of years you calculated to death. Spend that much.

Sounds like you are going to have a problem accepting spending money in retirement. The alternative is to keep accumulating as you like to do and leave it to your heirs or give it to charity. My personal philosophy is to spend whatever I want to spend on any frivolous thing I can think of that gives me pleasure and enjoyment. When I've depleted the excess assets then I will no longer be able to spend. I'll either die before I've depleted the assets and what's left will go to my heirs, or I'll reach a point where there is nothing left to spend and the heirs will get nothing.

[retiredguy123]

Here's the mathematical model. Calculate the number of years until your death. Divide the amount of your assets exceeding living expenses by the number of years you calculated to death. Spend that much.

Sounds like you are going to have a problem accepting spending money in retirement. The alternative is to keep accumulating as you like to do and leave it to your heirs or give it to charity. My personal philosophy is to spend whatever I want to spend on any frivolous thing I can think of that gives me pleasure and enjoyment. When I've depleted the excess assets then I will no longer be able to spend. I'll either die before I've depleted the assets and what's left will go to my heirs, or I'll reach a point where there is nothing left to spend and the heirs will get nothing.
The problem is that a hardcore saver does not derive pleasure and enjoyment by spending money on frivolous things.

[MidWestIA]

With the market weak I'm jepi pretty heavy they pay monthly dividends

If you like the JPMorgan Equity Premium Income ETF (NYSEARCA:JEPI) then you’re going to love its 11.9%-yielding counterpart, the JPMorgan Nasdaq Equity Premium Income ETF (NASDAQ:JEPQ).

[Robbb]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

Totally IMHO, you can do the vast majority of this yourself. There must be 1,000 Monte Carlo Simulations online, just google it. Some are very simple some can get very in depth, but all are very easy to navigate. Regarding non traded Reits, my first question to your guy would be why? what's the advantage?? I presume its in his advantage to sell them but how does this benefit you?

[jandr]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.


Had a terrible experience with a REIT in the '90s. Lost about 75% of my investment when the dust Finally settled. I think Commercial real estate would be Especially dicey these days.

[Robbb]

With the market weak I'm jepi pretty heavy they pay monthly dividends

If you like the JPMorgan Equity Premium Income ETF (NYSEARCA:JEPI) then you’re going to love its 11.9%-yielding counterpart, the JPMorgan Nasdaq Equity Premium Income ETF (NASDAQ:JEPQ).

Hmm you sure of those numbers? why would a fund pay 11.9% when the average dividend on a Nasdaq stock is probably less than 1%? Something is not adding up.

[Caymus]

The problem is that a hardcore saver does not derive pleasure and enjoyment by spending money on frivolous things.

I have read some articles that addresses that. In my case, I grew up in poverty and am currently spending much more money than I ever thought I would.

Maybe I would have different thought patterns if I grew up in the suburbs with a country club membership.:angel:

[Donnahamilton999]

I use The Mather Group for the last five years and I’ve been very happy with that. They charge a flat fee percent based on your total funds.

[Stu from NYC]

Hmm you sure of those numbers? why would a fund pay 11.9% when the average dividend on a Nasdaq stock is probably less than 1%? Something is not adding up.

Risky stocks in their portfolio. Run

[KCAlan]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

My advisor in Kansas City only recommends one non-traded REIT, does not recommend annuities and their fees are less than 1%. They also provide quarterly meetings either in person or via Zoom. I have been happy with them over the last 6 years. All investment plans are based on your goals and risk tolerance.

Message me and I can forward their contact info.

[Mrfriendly]

One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions?

No opinion on your REIT question. We more recently consolidated our accounts and went with Vanguard after interviewing T Rowe, Schwab and Fidelity. Stocks/Bonds and reinvest dividends. My losses are
minimal compared to what I was invested in during this spend happy administration. I’m a little tight myself thinking of the save for a rainy day is a good thing.

[retiredguy123]

If an advisor recommends an REIT, read the prospectus. Does the real estate they are investing in make sense? What are the proposed salaries of the REIT managers? Do they have a successful resume? Is there any incentive for the managers to make a profit on the real estate, or are they just collecting a salary even if the investors lose money?

Note that anyone can establish an REIT and write a prospectus that names them as the CEO with a huge salary. Then, they hire brokers to sell the shares, and lawyers, accountants, real estate professionals, etc. to buy the real estate and to manage it. As long as they sell enough shares, they can make a lot of money even if the REIT goes broke.

[Caymus]

If an advisor recommends an REIT, read the prospectus. Does the real estate they are investing in make sense? What are the proposed salaries of the REIT managers? Do they have a successful resume? Is there any incentive for the managers to make a profit on the real estate, or are they just collecting a salary even if the investors lose money?

Note that anyone can establish an REIT and write a prospectus that names them as the CEO with a huge salary. Then, they hire brokers to sell the shares, and lawyers, accountants, real estate professionals, etc. to buy the real estate and to manage it. As long as they sell enough shares, they can make a lot of money even if the REIT goes broke.

I don't see myself buying one. I already own two REIT funds in my Roth IRA. If I were to buy a single REIT at this time it would be VICI Properties.

I am not going to use this advisor. I have a few more plus a CPA to interview next week. Being retired, I have plenty of time to investigate.:laugh:

[nn0wheremann]

I understand all that. The problem (as I see it) is that I have always lived too fugally and have done so for years. Doing my work years most of my income went into investments or taxes. I was hoping to find a mathematical model that tells me how much to spend based on my assets. Maybe I need a psychoanalyst instead.:laugh:
In the immortal words of Max Bialystok, “When you got it, flaunt it!”

[petsetc]

My addition to investment advice - take time to read Paul Merriman’s 3 FREE ebooks.
1. First-Time Investor
2. 101 Investment Decisions
3. Get Smart or Get Screwed (read this first!)

Found at paulmerriman.com

Also on his site are recommended portfolios for using Vanguard, Fidelity, T.Rowe Price or Schwab for DYI'ers. Much good info, ignore the puffery and sales pitches.

Also, if you want to know too much about annuities, listen to Stan The Annuity Man® | Brutally Honest Facts About Annuities podcasts.

Podcast - Have Fun With Annuities(R) | The Annuity Man (https://www.stantheannuityman.com/fun-with-annuities-podcast)

Last recommendation is FIRECalc: A different kind of retirement calculator (http://www.firecalc.com) , a Monte Carlo simulation of your future.

FWIW

[almondz]

Call Dan Zabrowski at Family Financial in Fruitland Park. Flat fee, very knowledgeable and crosses t's and dots i"s (in other words, anal to make it right).

[Boomer]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.


Please slooooow down. There is a lot to consider -- that you can do right now -- before choosing an advisor. Don't be eager to turn it all over.

Sounds to me like the advisor you have been talking to is one of those razzle-dazzle, smoke 'n' mirrors guys who is seeing green -- green in his pocket and also seeing you as green about investing.

I have only two rules when it comes to investment decisions:

Rule #1: Know Thyself
Rule #2: Understand what you are buying -- and why

Looks to me like you already have a handle on Rule #1. (I think our behavior when it comes to money (and everything else) boils down to two things -- Nature and Nurture. Part of our "wiring" is just plain there and the other part is based on things that have happened in our lives.)

From what you have written in this thread, it is clear that you already know yourself as a careful spender and you have your reasons. Good. Let that knowledge of Rule #1 guide you to Rule #2. You will not be happy if you make investment decisions in any other way.

There are a couple of things that I would look into if I were you. . . Yeah. Yeah, I know you did not ask for general advice, but the girl can't help it when one of these threads starts up, so here we go......take it or leave it. :)

Find out about what it would take to roll your 401(k) or 403(b) into an IRA (self-directed for the time being or maybe forever). Someone at Fidelity or Vanguard or Schwab will talk with you about this. If you have investments inside your current retirement account that you like, find out if they can be rolled in-kind.)

If you are holding cash or want to sell anything you currently have inside the account, keep in mind that we are now in a time when CDs and money markets are paying more than they have in years. Brokered CDs with the above companies offer a choice of times to tie up the money and it is easy to find 5% or more now. Look for call-protected. For the first time in a very long time, there is a relatively decent place to park cash while you make other investment decisions.

Because you have not yet reached RMD age, you might want to look into converting an IRA to Roth. It's pay now or pay later when it comes to ordinary income tax, whether you spend the money or convert it to Roth.

My old accountant used to call getting money out of IRAs, “trying to free your money from its prison." If you decide you can convert to Roth, it will cost you now, of course, but it will buy freedom in the future and you will be so glad. (Btw, you mentioned how opening "the floodgates" makes you feel. Well, you might feel a little better if you use conversions to Roth for some of your money. Just pay the damned taxes now, but then you can slam those floodgates shut again and open them to tax-free money later. (Find out about the 5-year rule though if you are thinking you might need to dip in sooner rather than later.)

Anyway, I would be talking to an accountant first, before I looked for an advisor. (Some advisors have an accountant in-house or are one, but I don't think most do or are.)

Taxes are a big part of planning, especially as you approach Medicare age and then RMD age. Also find out if you need a revocable trust -- or, at least, make sure all your beneficiaries are in order. (The rules have changed for inherited IRAs.)

Sounds like you are entering retirement in good financial shape. Those two rules I mentioned here, plus doing a little homework re. taxes, etc., could go a long way toward keeping you in good shape throughout retirement.

(Please forgive me for assigning homework. I can't help that either. And probably you have already done it anyway.)

Boomer

[Ulrickdj]

Outstanding advice Boomer! Especially on the ROTH conversions. Do as much as you can or
get slaughter in taxes in the coming years!

[snbrafford]

Have been using Edward Jones since 2016 and my average return has been 7.56% with a high year of 16.8%. The last 5 has been 5.39%. They have a product called guided solutions that works well for me and it is fee based. My advisor checks in with me at least quarterly - more often if I request it and responds quickly to messages. I have not yet reached RMD time but it's approaching and I've had some discussions with him. I feel like I have "hands-on" management of my account - not just sitting somewhere.

[rsmurano]

This is why I have posted many times: a lot of the brokers and o called advisors are the ones that make all the money.
I never, never hire or listen to so called advisors and brokers. You aren’t the only investor that got sucked into investments with high paying fees, loads, etc.. all the things that make you lose money and the advisors make money.
Brokers and advisors have a business plan, and that’s to make money off the investor. Sky is the limit.
There are hundreds/thousands of ways to live off dividends, I have been doing this for a long time.
Learn to be a Boglehead or hire an advisor that is also a Boglehead, they will invest you into low cost high earning div end paying index funds, without all the loads.

[Villagesgal]

Stay away from that advisor. I also lived frugally prior to retirement so that I don’t need to now. I spend my entire ss and pension check most months and don't give it a second thought, plus I take 3% of my investments out each year and travel the world not counting pennies. I love my life and will never run out of money. Being frugal all those years did me well. Let go and enjoy. Do research on investments and then you'll be fine. I take out 3% but earn an average of 8%. Life in retirement is too short not to enjoy.

[Stu from NYC]

Stay away from that advisor. I also lived frugally prior to retirement so that I don’t need to now. I spend my entire ss and pension check most months and don't give it a second thought, plus I take 3% of my investments out each year and travel the world not counting pennies. I love my life and will never run out of money. Being frugal all those years did me well. Let go and enjoy. Do research on investments and then you'll be fine. I take out 3% but earn an average of 8%. Life in retirement is too short not to enjoy.

Very well said and done

[Innserelli]

Given the downturn in 2007-8-9, my wife was wanting to diversify. We had all our savings in the market and she felt we had suffered for it. In 2014, we had a friend who had purchased some REITs and done quite well when his REITs went public on the NYSE. We met with his advisor and ended up purchasing several recommended individual REITs. All paid good interest and seemed like a reasonable investments. Only one was eventually listed on the NYSE and we sold at a loss. One has been fairly successful, Smart Stop. The other two have been disasters. Both quit paying dividends and dropped dramatically in value when COVID hit. The worst part is that they sit in your IRA adding absolutely nothing to your portfolio, but they are unsellable except at a very steep loss, and increase the value of your IRA which results in a higher RMD. The dividends are often a return of principal. It was a costly mistake for us and I would advise you to steer clear. Same with annuities unless you need a steady cash stream now, which doesn't sound like the case.

[toeser]

So, I am currently interviewing advisors. In my case, I am trying a find a fee-based advisor who can help me determine how much money I should be "paying" myself (before RMD's kick in). I have always lived below my means and am finding it difficult to open the spending floodgates during my first year of retirement.

The advisor I recently talked to has a relationship with my former company. They have a reasonable fee structure to develop a plan - Monte Carlo Simulation etc. One thing they suggested for income are Nontraded REITs. I read that they may not be easy to sell, and I assume they have high trading fees. Any opinions? I already have REIT funds inside my Roth IRA. They have done well until recently.

In my younger days I invested in all sorts of things that were complicated and often illiquid. I have spent my last 15 years working out of those and into simple, highly liquid investments. Why would I leave my wife or anyone else with a complicated mess to unwind?

[Caymus]

In my younger days I invested in all sorts of things that were complicated and often illiquid. I have spent my last 15 years working out of those and into simple, highly liquid investments. Why would I leave my wife or anyone else with a complicated mess to unwind?

That is a good point. One of the reasons that I am even interviewing advisors is for the longer term when my cognitive abilities decline. Right now, it is pretty easy (and enjoyable) for me to manage my assets.

[Stu from NYC]

In order to diversify at REITs have investment in a REIT mutual fund via Rowe Price and it has done well over the past 8 years or so.

Thinking about this do not understand why any so called advisor would he suggest a non traded REIT. There are no advantages as far as I can see it.