Is the "Age" of residents enforced

[bcsnave]

How come I see a bunch of under 55 people with charges from the Villages?

[retiredguy123]

The rule is that only one person in the house must be over 55, and that rule can be waived by The Villages as long as 80 percent of the houses are in compliance. The only real age restriction is that people under 19 cannot stay in the house for more than 30 days. So, good luck enforcing the rule against someone who is over 19.

[Bogie Shooter]

:popcorn::popcorn:

Expect 50 plus posts, cut and pasted from many previous threads.

[bcsnave]

Thanks Boogie...save me some of that Popcorn

[tophcfa]

The rule is that only one person in the house must be over 55, and that rule can be waived by The Villages as long as 80 percent of the houses are in compliance. The only real age restriction is that people under 19 cannot stay in the house for more than 30 days. So, good luck enforcing the rule against someone who is over 19.

Good luck expecting enforcement of any internal deed restrictions.

[Stu from NYC]

Good luck expecting enforcement of any internal deed restrictions.

The two old biddies seem to have some clout

[bcsnave]

The two old biddies seem to have some clout


I guess sometimes the older folks aren't the best either. i.e. 300 files found on a laptop, or punching a womans arm, or running around naked from the waist down at the Manatee Recreation Center

[kansasr]

The two old biddies seem to have some clout

We're talking "internal" deed restrictions, which must be enforced by the developer. I've never heard of an instance where this has happened.

[Pairadocs]

The rule is that only one person in the house must be over 55, and that rule can be waived by The Villages as long as 80 percent of the houses are in compliance. The only real age restriction is that people under 19 cannot stay in the house for more than 30 days. So, good luck enforcing the rule against someone who is over 19.

Good explanation, may help some understand. Seems a lot of people do get "rules", "deed restrictions", and "laws" all mixed up in their minds... Most, or many, do not seem to know the federal 80% law even exist, and also that in the final analysis, the local police officers are NOT responsible for enforcing the "rules" and "restrictions". Relatives in planned "retirement" communities in other states tell us confusion also runs rampant in their communities. Aways asking WHO is responsible for ENFORCING the "gate law", who "let's these people in without a resident I.D. they say... and yet, it's exactly like it is in the villages, the roads are NOT private. They tell us the residents of their community also no not understand that there really is not specified enforcement entity...and, the local police are always being called on to take care of things like this: "they have children at ......, they need to leave, they have been here all summer, you need to send an officer to take care of it... I CALLED the HOA and they don't take care of that so we need an officer.... and so on. Just saying, we are not alone with residents who are not clear about many things in age restricted communities.

[Kelevision]

How come I see a bunch of under 55 people with charges from the Villages?

Anyone can “live” here as long as you’re over 18.

[hdidden]

How come I see a bunch of under 55 people with charges from the Villages?

Because dangerous loser parasitic relatives come here to leech off of our elderly residents. They first victimize that relative and then exploit the rest of our community and amenities till they are arrested.....but, Oh Wait!...Then they come back
and keep doing it over and over and over with no end in sight...

[banjobob]

No enforcement of age restrictions per covenant, up to 20% are permitted by statute.

[JGibson]

Cry all you want but they lied to you. The Villages is not a retirement community.

There is a serious housing problem in America so I expect you will see more younger folks living in TV in the near future.

[TEXJK]

When the entitled start arriving in the next few months riding around with scowls ������ on their faces having to deal with the permanent residents being in there way!
Maybe it will scare them off ������

[graciegirl]

:popcorn::popcorn:

Expect 50 plus posts, cut and pasted from many previous threads.

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

[Jcicales]

When the entitled start arriving in the next few months riding around with scowls ������ on their faces having to deal with the permanent residents being in there way!
Maybe it will scare them off ������
Are you serious? I see you only joined this year. And already you know everything? Wow good for you! Have a wonderful lovely fabulous DAY

[Bogie Shooter]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

Hi Gracie!

[elle123]

How come I see a bunch of under 55 people with charges from the Villages?
Because dysfunctional children in their 20's and 30's are living with their parents in The Villages.

[Bill14564]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

Rephrased just a little....

Because the Villages is a 55+ community and ensures that at least 80% of the occupied homes have at least one resident over 55, they can have a restriction that says no one under 19 can stay for more than 30 days in a calendar year.

[daca55]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

Not to get off topic, but whatever happened to graciegirl? Always enjoyed her perspective on things.

[Bilyclub]

Not to get off topic, but whatever happened to graciegirl? Always enjoyed her perspective on things.

She's around.

[blueash]

You all love math don't you? So you have 100 homes. Each home is allowed to have four residents, at least for purposes of getting ID cards. That is now 400 people. Of those 100 homes 80%, or 80 homes must have one resident age 55+ . The villages is fully in compliance with the requirement if just 80 people are 55+ and the other 320 are 19-54.

We know that most homes here have 1 or 2 residents. But understanding the difference between a requirement that 80% of the residents be over 55 and 80% of the homes have one resident over 55 is a huge difference in the definition for compliance.

[kkingston57]

Wonder if they actually live in TV. We live in TV but per the post office, we live in Lady Lake. Also, we live in Sumter County. Our neighbor received a summons to appear for jury duty in Lake County. Easiest way to avoid jury duty. "I do not live in Lake County"

[JanRoberts]

I appreciate that one of my adult children and spouse (37 & 34) could stay with us a few months while moving here from Hawaii and looking for some place adorable to live outside of Orlando. TV was great about and we let all the neighbors on our street know beforehand and they were great about it too. Camp Villages is great for the grandkids too.

[Carla B]

Not to get off topic, but whatever happened to graciegirl? Always enjoyed her perspective on things.

She's at Post #15.

[birdawg]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well. good to see your still posting 😀

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Cry all you want but they lied to you. The Villages is not a retirement community.

There is a serious housing problem in America so I expect you will see more younger folks living in TV in the near future.

🙄 Spoken like a true outsider, or one who is unhappy no matter where he lives. No one lied to us 18 years ago. The only way we’re turned into a housing project is forcing the VCDDs to allocate a percentage for low income housing. For the record, our SS payments would qualify us.

[MrChip72]

Rephrased just a little....

Because the Villages is a 55+ community and ensures that at least 80% of the occupied homes have at least one resident over 55, they can have a restriction that says no one under 19 can stay for more than 30 days in a calendar year.

I think "ensures" could be more accurately replaced with "claims". It's doubtful that they're doing anything to actually keep track, not that it would be very feasible to do anyways.

Have talked to multiple new buyers in the Villages where both people in the couple are under 55 that have bought a new home. From what I can tell, there's little chance the sales agents are going to turn down a sale because they're under 55.

[Bill14564]

I think "ensures" could be more accurately replaced with "claims". It's doubtful that they're doing anything to actually keep track, not that it would be very feasible to do anyways.

Have talked to multiple new buyers in the Villages where both people in the couple are under 55 that have bought a new home. From what I can tell, there's little chance the sales agents are going to turn down a sale because they're under 55.

I actually think it would be fairly straightforward to keep track of how many homes had a resident over 55.

Two things to consider with the new buyers under 55: 1. Will they live in the home or was it purchased as a rental; and, 2. Will they drive the 55+ resident rate lower than 80%? We don't know though some will claim otherwise.

In the end though, the HoPA rules aren't there to protect us or give us rights, the rules exist to protect the Villages and give the Villages rights. The HoPA rules do not guarantee us that the community will continue to be a 55+ community. The HoPA rules allow a 55+ community like the Villages to refuse to sell to a family with children under 19 years old and protect the Villages from anti-discrimination lawsuits based on that refusal.

An owner might be able to sue the Villages for not following the deed restrictions that they wrote. The owner would need to provide data to show that not 80% of the occupied homes have a 55+ resident. I believe the Villages have the residency data but I'm not sure they would willingly provide it.

[tophcfa]

An owner might be able to sue the Villages for not following the deed restrictions that they wrote. The owner would need to provide data to show that not 80% of the occupied homes have a 55+ resident.

You neglected to add that the owner would need to have extremely deep pockets and be prepared to have those pockets significantly emptied. It’s never a good idea to sue an extremely well connected entity, with seemingly unlimited financial resources, and an army of attorneys at their disposal.

[Topspinmo]

Anyone can “live” here as long as you’re over 18.

And have money to do so.

[Topspinmo]

No enforcement of age restrictions per covenant, up to 20% are permitted by statute.

I sure there is accurate accounting going one:oops.

[Packer Fan]

I think "ensures" could be more accurately replaced with "claims". It's doubtful that they're doing anything to actually keep track, not that it would be very feasible to do anyways.

Have talked to multiple new buyers in the Villages where both people in the couple are under 55 that have bought a new home. From what I can tell, there's little chance the sales agents are going to turn down a sale because they're under 55.

Where exactly is your evidence??? It might shock you but you have to show ID to buy a house and there are about 5 other ways to get your age before you close. They do track it. How do I know? When I was 51 I bought my first house here and I asked. In 2014 it was about 8% that were below 55. The other thing
They pointed out is that people age, so in a few years I would be above 55 and fall off that statistic which I am now being 60. And yes if they get to 20% they will stop selling to younger people. I don’t think we are any different than where we were in 2014. Same gripes and misinformation on here now as back then.

[bcsnave]

Where exactly is your evidence??? It might shock you but you have to show ID to buy a house and there are about 5 other ways to get your age before you close. They do track it. How do I know? When I was 51 I bought my first house here and I asked. In 2014 it was about 8% that were below 55. The other thing
They pointed out is that people age, so in a few years I would be above 55 and fall off that statistic which I am now being 60. And yes if they get to 20% they will stop selling to younger people. I don’t think we are any different than where we were in 2014. Same gripes and misinformation on here now as back then.

Yeah..but you're from Oak Creek so whadda you know anyway...lol

[MrChip72]

They do track it. How do I know? When I was 51 I bought my first house here and I asked. In 2014 it was about 8% that were below 55.

Was there an official number of 8% with some sort of audited data that was presented to you, or was this just someone telling you it was 8%? Since we bought, I've found lots of things we were told ended up not to be completely true.

Doubtful that it's even possible for them to track people renting out houses to families under 55 like some people that are in my area, houses changing hands in other ways, divorce, etc.

[mikeycereal]

My sugar mama is 55, but I'm 24. You mean I'm not welcome?? *sniff*
:cry: :throwtomatoes: :duck:

[Marathon Man]

Was there an official number of 8% with some sort of audited data that was presented to you, or was this just someone telling you it was 8%? Since we bought, I've found lots of things we were told ended up not to be completely true.

Doubtful that it's even possible for them to track people renting out houses to families under 55 like some people that are in my area, houses changing hands in other ways, divorce, etc.

It is tracked. I have spoken to one of the people who do it. It is behind the scenes and occurs during the month between signing the deal and closing. A sale could be disallowed if we ever approach the 80% limit. Tracking is required by law as part of remaining a 55+ community.

[retiredguy123]

It is tracked. I have spoken to one of the people who do it. It is behind the scenes and occurs during the month between signing the deal and closing. A sale could be disallowed if we ever approach the 80% limit. Tracking is required by law as part of remaining a 55+ community.
I can understand how they could track property sales, but the age rule only applies to residents, not owners. The only way I can see how to track the residents is with the ID cards. But, a lot of people rent out their house, or they are snowbirds, who are partime residents. Any tracking system they use could be grossly inaccurate.

[pauld315]

They only enforce it (or even track it) if yoiu buy your home through athe Villages. If you buy a resale from MLS or privately, they never check. Once you go into the house as being underaged they wil never enforce the age restrictions. That is why there are so many kids living in The Villages. They should be doing yearly censuses to ensure they are still meeting the Age Restricted community qualifucatuons but they don't.

[pauld315]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

And who tracks that compliance ? The answer is nobody. Also,the under 19 rule is part of the internall deed restrictions and never enforced.

[retiredguy123]

They only enforce it (or even track it) if yoiu buy your home through athe Villages. If you buy a resale from MLS or privately, they never check. Once you go into the house as being underaged they wil never enforce the age restrictions. That is why there are so many kids living in The Villages. They should be doing yearly censuses to ensure they are still meeting the Age Restricted community qualifucatuons but they don't.
When have they ever enforced it? Tracking by home sales would not work because the rule applies to residents, not owners. The only feasible tracking method would be with the resident ID cards, assuming they require proof of age when they issue a card.

[Bill14564]

I can understand how they could track property sales, but the age rule only applies to residents, not owners. The only way I can see how to track the residents is with the ID cards. But, a lot of people rent out their house, or they are snowbirds, who are partime residents. Any tracking system they use could be grossly inaccurate.

Why wouldn't ID cards work, at least for the vast majority of homes?

If a rental includes amenities then the owner turns in his/her ID card and a card is issued to the renter at one of the sales offices. The ages of the occupants can be tracked.

If an owner is a snowbird or other part-time resident then they maintain their ID card. Either the age can be tracked through the card or the home could be considered to be unoccupied and not part of the 80/20 count.

This might leave out short-term rentals but would it really make the count grossly inaccurate? Do the HoPA rules even require these to be counted or would they be considered as unoccupied? Even if they are counted, are there enough short-term rental properties to significantly affect the 80/20 ratio?

I've read claims of numbers like 1,000 rental properties or 3,000 rental properties listed. OK, but with 70,000+ homes in the Villages, if all 3,000 were required to be counted and all 3,000 were short-term and all 3,000 were rented with no one over 55 in the party that would still only be 4% of the homes, far from the 20% limit.

[Bill14564]

They only enforce it (or even track it) if yoiu buy your home through athe Villages. If you buy a resale from MLS or privately, they never check. Once you go into the house as being underaged they wil never enforce the age restrictions. That is why there are so many kids living in The Villages. They should be doing yearly censuses to ensure they are still meeting the Age Restricted community qualifucatuons but they don't.

And who tracks that compliance ? The answer is nobody. Also,the under 19 rule is part of the internall deed restrictions and never enforced.


Are there "so many kids living in The Villages?" I know of zero. I have seen one post on here mentioning one family.

It could be that there does exist one or a few families living in the Villages. I don't really know and I suspect a large number of those posting don't know either.

"Never enforced?" Really? It would be interesting to see some numbers on that. How many times have internal deed restrictions been reported and homes are still in violation?

[retiredguy123]

Why wouldn't ID cards work, at least for the vast majority of homes?

If a rental includes amenities then the owner turns in his/her ID card and a card is issued to the renter at one of the sales offices. The ages of the occupants can be tracked.

If an owner is a snowbird or other part-time resident then they maintain their ID card. Either the age can be tracked through the card or the home could be considered to be unoccupied and not part of the 80/20 count.

This might leave out short-term rentals but would it really make the count grossly inaccurate? Do the HoPA rules even require these to be counted or would they be considered as unoccupied? Even if they are counted, are there enough short-term rental properties to significantly affect the 80/20 ratio?

I've read claims of numbers like 1,000 rental properties or 3,000 rental properties listed. OK, but with 70,000+ homes in the Villages, if all 3,000 were required to be counted and all 3,000 were short-term and all 3,000 were rented with no one over 55 in the party that would still only be 4% of the homes, far from the 20% limit.
I don't know all the rules. If a snowbird lives in The Villages for 4 months every year, is that a fulltime resident, or an unoccupied house? And, how does The Villages count the number of snowbirds? They don't register as snowbirds or even tell The Villages when they leave town. Are there long term renters who don't have an ID card? Shouldn't the 80 percent data and methodology be public information? That would answer these questions.

[Safety Ranger]

It's pretty simple.. if you have the $$$ someone will sell you a home, be it a private party or TV. Its all about the money

[retiredguy123]

Every time I have contacted Deed Compliance or Community Standards, the person I am talking to seems to have an attitude that they will do almost anything to avoid enforcing a rule. Someone stored a vehicle in a visitor parking space for a year, and the Deed Compliance guy actually told me that the owner was not violating any deed restriction because he did not own a house in the area and did not live there. Also, he was not visiting anyone.

[JMintzer]

They only enforce it (or even track it) if yoiu buy your home through athe Villages. If you buy a resale from MLS or privately, they never check. Once you go into the house as being underaged they wil never enforce the age restrictions. That is why there are so many kids living in The Villages. They should be doing yearly censuses to ensure they are still meeting the Age Restricted community qualifucatuons but they don't.

Where are "all of these kids" who are living in TV?

The only time I see kids is when they're visiting during the Winter/Spring holidays or during Summer break...

[Bill14564]

I don't know all the rules. If a snowbird lives in The Villages for 4 months every year, is that a fulltime resident, or an unoccupied house? And, how does The Villages count the number of snowbirds? They don't register as snowbirds or even tell The Villages when they leave town. Are there long term renters who don't have an ID card? Shouldn't the 80 percent data and methodology be public information? That would answer these questions.

For the sake of argument, let's say the Villages does not know who is a snowbird. Simple solution: consider the home to be occupied, consider the occupants of the home to be those with the ID cards, and then count the home in the appropriate category.

Are there long term renters who don't have ID cards? I would guess that there are not. Part of the appeal of the Villages is the amenities and renting long term without use of the amenities wouldn't make much sense.

Should the 80% data and methodology be public information? No. The Villages is a private company and entitled to keep their internal processes private. If they file paperwork with HUD concerning the current ratio then that ought to be public, or at least FOIA'able, but unless HUD chooses to question the methodology it would be private.

I am comfortable that the 80/20 ratio is being met. EVEN IF IT IS NOT, since I don't have a family who was denied the opportunity to live here due to having children I have not been harmed. The 80/20 rule is not a guarantee to me that I won't have a 23 year old on my street. The 80/20 rule is a reason that the family with teenagers cannot purchase a home on my street. If the 80/20 rule is not being met then the parents of the teenager can sue under the Fair Housing Act. If there is a 23 year old on my street then I have someone younger to say hello to.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

No, that is not true. At least 80% of PROPERTIES - must have at least 1 person age 55 or older residing in it.

If (hypothetically because these numbers are easiest to understand) you have 100,000 properties, and 80,000 of them have 1 person age 55 or older living in them, but you have 400,000 PEOPLE living in the Villages, then you have an average of 4 residents per home - with at least 1 of them being 55 or older in 80% of those homes. And that satisfies the law.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wonder if they actually live in TV. We live in TV but per the post office, we live in Lady Lake. Also, we live in Sumter County. Our neighbor received a summons to appear for jury duty in Lake County. Easiest way to avoid jury duty. "I do not live in Lake County"

Lady Lake exists in both counties.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I appreciate that one of my adult children and spouse (37 & 34) could stay with us a few months while moving here from Hawaii and looking for some place adorable to live outside of Orlando. TV was great about and we let all the neighbors on our street know beforehand and they were great about it too. Camp Villages is great for the grandkids too.

The grandkids, if they're under 19 years old, are not allowed to stay longer than 30 days in a calendar year. If they're staying "a few months" then that's against the rules.

If they're just visiting for a few weeks, it's awesome. Great to see kids around here and there - as long as they don't overstay their communal welcome as they apparently have done in Souliere Villas.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It is tracked. I have spoken to one of the people who do it. It is behind the scenes and occurs during the month between signing the deal and closing. A sale could be disallowed if we ever approach the 80% limit. Tracking is required by law as part of remaining a 55+ community.

Except that it either isn't happening, or isn't happening correctly.

Many older Villagers have passed away and left their properties to their under-55 children. Those under-55 children already have Villagers IDs (since you can have up to 4 ids per property). They own the house, they live in the house, they're under 55, and their over 55 parents, who allowed for that 80% qualification to be valid, no longer exist.

This is not uncommon, it happens.

In addition, private sales that don't involve Properties of The Villages (the developer's agency) are private. The Villages don't get to find out who's moving in, until after the buyer has already purchased the house and moved in. The Developer isn't going to tell them "sorry but you can't live here even though you bought the house fair and square."

This is also not uncommon. It happens.

[Red Rose]

And don’t forget the 40 and 50 year old loser offspring. They are here too.😝

[retiredguy123]

Except that it either isn't happening, or isn't happening correctly.

Many older Villagers have passed away and left their properties to their under-55 children. Those under-55 children already have Villagers IDs (since you can have up to 4 ids per property). They own the house, they live in the house, they're under 55, and their over 55 parents, who allowed for that 80% qualification to be valid, no longer exist.

This is not uncommon, it happens.

In addition, private sales that don't involve The Villages Hometown Real Estate (the developer's agency) are private. The Villages don't get to find out who's moving in, until after the buyer has already purchased the house and moved in. The Developer isn't going to tell them "sorry but you can't live here even though you bought the house fair and square."

This is also not uncommon. It happens.
To clarify, the developer's real estate sales agency is called "Properties of The Villages". The company "Hometown Property Management" is a private rental company that is not owned by The Villages. Some people assume that the "Hometown" company is part of The Villages.

[JMintzer]

Except that it either isn't happening, or isn't happening correctly.

Many older Villagers have passed away and left their properties to their under-55 children. Those under-55 children already have Villagers IDs (since you can have up to 4 ids per property). They own the house, they live in the house, they're under 55, and their over 55 parents, who allowed for that 80% qualification to be valid, no longer exist.

This is not uncommon, it happens.

In addition, private sales that don't involve The Villages Hometown Real Estate (the developer's agency) are private. The Villages don't get to find out who's moving in, until after the buyer has already purchased the house and moved in. The Developer isn't going to tell them "sorry but you can't live here even though you bought the house fair and square."

This is also not uncommon. It happens.

Just because something happens doesn't mean it not uncommon...

[Bill14564]

Except that it either isn't happening, or isn't happening correctly.

Many older Villagers have passed away and left their properties to their under-55 children. Those under-55 children already have Villagers IDs (since you can have up to 4 ids per property). They own the house, they live in the house, they're under 55, and their over 55 parents, who allowed for that 80% qualification to be valid, no longer exist.

This is not uncommon, it happens.

In addition, private sales that don't involve The Villages Hometown Real Estate (the developer's agency) are private. The Villages don't get to find out who's moving in, until after the buyer has already purchased the house and moved in. The Developer isn't going to tell them "sorry but you can't live here even though you bought the house fair and square."

This is also not uncommon. It happens.

I wonder whether sales of Villages properties aren't reviewed by the Developer. IDs are issued by the sales office so the Villages becomes involved at some point. I picked up my mailbox key from the sales office but that may be because my house was listed with them.

The Developer is responsible for monitoring the 80/20 ratio and ensuring it is met. At some point the Developer must have a way to refuse to allow occupancy if there is no resident at least 55+.

The sales people are aware of the deed restriction against children in the house and would refuse to sell to a family. They are also aware of the 80/20 restrictions and they must have a way to check that as well.

But remember, it doesn't matter who owns the home, the requirement concerns who resides in the home.

Plus, none of this really matters if the under 55+ portion is far less than 20%.

[Warcats]

How come I see a bunch of under 55 people with charges from the Villages?

Does it say what they did?

[tophcfa]

Every time I have contacted Deed Compliance or Community Standards, the person I am talking to seems to have an attitude that they will do almost anything to avoid enforcing a rule.

Unless you are reporting a person with a little white cross in their garden, then they would be all over it like a fly on you know what!

[oldtimes]

No, that is not true. At least 80% of PROPERTIES - must have at least 1 person age 55 or older residing in it.

If (hypothetically because these numbers are easiest to understand) you have 100,000 properties, and 80,000 of them have 1 person age 55 or older living in them, but you have 400,000 PEOPLE living in the Villages, then you have an average of 4 residents per home - with at least 1 of them being 55 or older in 80% of those homes. And that satisfies the law.

Isn't that exactly what blueash said in post 22 except you added more zeros.

[Marathon Man]

Except that it either isn't happening, or isn't happening correctly.

Many older Villagers have passed away and left their properties to their under-55 children. Those under-55 children already have Villagers IDs (since you can have up to 4 ids per property). They own the house, they live in the house, they're under 55, and their over 55 parents, who allowed for that 80% qualification to be valid, no longer exist.

This is not uncommon, it happens.

In addition, private sales that don't involve The Villages Hometown Real Estate (the developer's agency) are private. The Villages don't get to find out who's moving in, until after the buyer has already purchased the house and moved in. The Developer isn't going to tell them "sorry but you can't live here even though you bought the house fair and square."

This is also not uncommon. It happens.

How do you know that it is not tracked or is done improperly? How do you know that 'The Villages' is not involved and must approve a private sale? How do you know? Assuming does not count.

As long as we are under 20%, then all sales are ok. So, no one has seen a sale get nixed. How does anyone know what that would look like until it happens?

[Fenster]

That’s why.

The biggest offenders.

[jimjamuser]

Where exactly is your evidence??? It might shock you but you have to show ID to buy a house and there are about 5 other ways to get your age before you close. They do track it. How do I know? When I was 51 I bought my first house here and I asked. In 2014 it was about 8% that were below 55. The other thing
They pointed out is that people age, so in a few years I would be above 55 and fall off that statistic which I am now being 60. And yes if they get to 20% they will stop selling to younger people. I don’t think we are any different than where we were in 2014. Same gripes and misinformation on here now as back then.
I know one couple that are both under age 55. And I don't know a lot of people.

[jimjamuser]

It is tracked. I have spoken to one of the people who do it. It is behind the scenes and occurs during the month between signing the deal and closing. A sale could be disallowed if we ever approach the 80% limit. Tracking is required by law as part of remaining a 55+ community.
That would be nice, if true.

[JMintzer]

That’s why.

The biggest offenders.

I know about ONE adult child in my village. He is mentally disabled and his parents still care for him... He's a sweetheart...

[ThirdOfFive]

I know about ONE adult child in my village. He is mentally disabled and his parents still care for him... He's a sweetheart...
Understandable. I applaud parents who make the commitment to care for a handicapped child.

The opposite seems to be true as well. I know of two homes in our village where an adult child provides care for a parent or parents who would not be able to live independently here in TV without that help. In fact the church we attend is sponsoring a program for just such caregivers as well as spouses who care for an incapacitated spouse (usually the wife caring for an incapacitated husband). It is just getting off the ground. The program is run by a psychiatric nurse who has had extensive experience in this particular area. I'm not completely familiar with the mechanics of the program but it appears to be several things: a type of respite care where a volunteer, after being trained in the needs and procedures of the person in question, will go into the home to stay with the incapacitated person while the primary caregiver (spouse, adult child, whomever) is free for a period of time to pursue his or her own interests, shop, whatever. It appears also to function as a sort of informal support group where experiences and information is shared.

There is never a lack of stories about ne'er-do-well adult kids to move here to sponge off parents and all too often end up afoul of the law in the process. But that other element exists as well. I have no way of knowing for sure but my guess is that the children who are here as legitimate caregivers far outnumber the the sponges. It is good to see a program designed to help them cope with the strain and inconvenience that being such a caregiver entails.

[mtdjed]

An opinion:

1/ The Fair Housing Act was Title 8 part of the Civil Rights act of 1968
2/ The Housing for Older People Act (HOPA) of 1995 amended the Fair Housing Act of1 968
a/ Deleted certain requirements for certain facilities and services for qualified housing for persons 55 and older
b/ Set up system allowing some discrimination by Familial age regarding sales of properties in 55 and over communities

Also, to eliminate issues that might lead to suit over refusal to sell/rent to certain persons under the age of 55. Spells out that requirement regarding age -- (i) at least 80 percent of the occupied units are occupied by at least one person who is 55 years of age or older. It makes the Housing Facility or community responsible for maintaining the ratio above.

Now the speculation is how that is done or maintained. The Developer has a goal to maintain the status of an over 55 community which allows them to market to that segment of the population. At some point that responsibility migrates to the community. Perhaps the CDD's.

It would seem that the law specifically benefits the developers, and then the residents only as a byproduct. So, as long as the Developer sells the initial homes, they have control of whom they sell to by age. But, what do they use as their basis for the 80 percent. The whole of the Villages (which gets older each day) or some segment they designate? By law (HOPA) they must track. Could be that over 95% of the homes currently have at least one person over 55. Our community of Caroline at Lake Sumter has around 90 homes and I would guess that 95% have at least 1 person over 55. The Developer could easily keep track of that number even considering sales outside of their control. Likely, they could sell the next 2000 homes to families under 55 years of age without threatening that 80% threshold.

The other part are the covenants regarding persons under 19. I suspect that is a local issue, that might be more of a CDD management issue.

To the OPs concern, yes, we will have the likelihood of many persons under 55 down to age 19 and it would appear that they are entitled to be here. And contrary to some posts, that does not indicate that they are ne're-do-wells.

There also could be some exceptions to the under 19 rule. For example, an owner 55 or older might by some reason become the guardian. Would that owner be required to move to be the guardian. Who administers the exceptions? Would you have any way to overrule by law?

[mtdjed]

Lady Lake exists in both counties.

The town of Lady Lake is in Lake County Florida. Have they incorporated land in Sumter or Marion County? Post office Zip Codes don't necessarily define county location.

[Garywt]

You and me, Bogie, have been on this Forum for a long time and have witnessed this discussion so many times.

The Federal Housing Act, established in 1968 has a section referred to as HOPA. The Villages must have at least 80% of people over 55 years of age and cannot have anyone living here under 19. Under 19 visitors may stay here no more than a total of 30 days in a calendar year.

This goes for rental homes as well.

Gracie girl is back. Not to long ago there was a giant manhunt looking for you. Hope all is well.

[Garywt]

The 4 teenagers that had moved into their grandparents home in our neighborhood and had been causing all types of issues and vandalism have moved out. Don’t know if they were told to leave or finally left after the many complaints made and the neighborhood standing up to them but either way they are gone so it can happen.

[MrChip72]

Are there long term renters who don't have ID cards? I would guess that there are not. Part of the appeal of the Villages is the amenities and renting long term without use of the amenities wouldn't make much sense.


There's plenty of Villagers that never golf, use the pools, or go to the Rec Centers for anything. Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but some people just like the other things like the golf cart community thing or the multiple free live music venues every night. I'm on a small street and from what I can tell, multiple households on my street never use any of the amenities that you would need an ID card for.

[MrChip72]

It is tracked. I have spoken to one of the people who do it. It is behind the scenes and occurs during the month between signing the deal and closing. A sale could be disallowed if we ever approach the 80% limit. Tracking is required by law as part of remaining a 55+ community.

I don't see how this would work for resales. Would the RE agent have to check with TV to see if there's extra capacity to sell to an under 55 couple every time? Seems doubtful.

I'm aware that there's a law about the 80% rule, I just haven't seen a specific law about requiring all Deed Restricted communities to have it being tracked. I can't imagine that any of the many smaller condo complexes in Florida with 200 units or less have the financial resources to constantly track the demographics of every unit.

[bcsnave]

Understandable.........
The program is run by a psychiatric nurse who has had extensive experience in this particular area. I'm not completely familiar with the mechanics of the program but it appears to be several things: a type of respite care where a volunteer, after being trained in the needs and procedures of the person in question, will go into the home to stay with the incapacitated person while the primary caregiver (spouse, adult child, whomever) is free for a period of time to pursue his or her own interests, shop, whatever. It appears also to function as a sort of informal support group where experiences and information is shared...... It is good to see a program designed to help them cope with the strain and inconvenience that being such a caregiver entails.

Hope that nurse isn't the one I'm thinking of

[Bill14564]

I don't see how this would work for resales. Would the RE agent have to check with TV to see if there's extra capacity to sell to an under 55 couple every time? Seems doubtful.

I'm aware that there's a law about the 80% rule, I just haven't seen a specific law about requiring all Deed Restricted communities to have it being tracked. I can't imagine that any of the many smaller condo complexes in Florida with 200 units or less have the financial resources to constantly track the demographics of every unit.

Not all deed restricted communities, all 55+ communities that don't allow children. In order to legally refuse to have children as permanent residents the community has to show that they are abiding by the HoPA rules.

A smaller condo complex in Florida with 200 units or less can be sued for discrimination in housing if they refuse to allow a family with children to live there UNLESS they can prove, through the HoPA rules, that they are a 55+ community. Those rules require certifying that at least one resident is over 55 in 80% or more of occupied units.

[Marathon Man]

I don't see how this would work for resales. Would the RE agent have to check with TV to see if there's extra capacity to sell to an under 55 couple every time? Seems doubtful.

I'm aware that there's a law about the 80% rule, I just haven't seen a specific law about requiring all Deed Restricted communities to have it being tracked. I can't imagine that any of the many smaller condo complexes in Florida with 200 units or less have the financial resources to constantly track the demographics of every unit.

I only know what I was told by the lawyer who is involved in the tracking. He told me that all sales are reviewed and that there is a mechanism in place. Remember - selling privately does not neutralize the deed restrictions or the requirements to remain a 55+ community. HOPA says that once the 55+ designation is lost, it cannot be recovered. So, yea, they track it.

As far as costs, a small community would be able to track very easily with little or no costs.

[JGibson]

I only know what I was told by the lawyer who is involved in the tracking. He told me that all sales are reviewed and that there is a mechanism in place. Remember - selling privately does not neutralize the deed restrictions or the requirements to remain a 55+ community. HOPA says that once the 55+ designation is lost, it cannot be recovered. So, yea, they track it.

As far as costs, a small community would be able to track very easily with little or no costs.

Is there an actual government agency that would do an audit on the age restriction compliance?

Has TV ever been audited for age restriction compliance?

Or is TV governing themselves and they’re on the honor system?

How would they possibly keep track of Airbnb occupants?

TV was able to build sections for families who work in TV is that included in the 80%

Maybe TV keeps track of buyers for legal reasons but in no way with a community this large can they keep track of every household and who is living in it.

[Bill14564]

...

How would they possibly keep track of Airbnb occupants?

I wonder if they even need to. If "occupied" has a lower limit, say 30 days, then airbnbs could be considered to be unoccupied and not part of the count. If not, then the occupancy would depend on the date the survey was conducted. Either there was someone in the home whose age could be determined or the age of the last occupant would be used. Either way, occupied or not, the number of airbnbs could be in the noise compared with the size of the rest of the community.


TV was able to build sections for families who work in TV is that included in the 80%

Middleton is not part of the Villages. Middleton is not a 55+ community. I can't believe Middleton would affect the Villages status any more than the cities of Wildwood or Bushnell do.

Maybe TV keeps track of buyers for legal reasons but in no way with a community this large can they keep track of every household and who is living in it.

All they need to keep track of (or count once every two years) is whether there is one resident over 55 in every occupied home. Unoccupied - isn't counted. One 60 year old with five 23 year old live-in friends - counts as part of the 80%. Most of the homes could be categorized through the information collected for Villager IDs.

[retiredguy123]

Is there an actual government agency that would do an audit on the age restriction compliance?

Has TV ever been audited for age restriction compliance?

Or is TV governing themselves and they’re on the honor system?

How would they possibly keep track of Airbnb occupants?

TV was able to build sections for families who work in TV is that included in the 80%

Maybe TV keeps track of buyers for legal reasons but in no way with a community this large can they keep track of every household and who is living in it.
HUD, (U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development) is the Federal agency responsible for administering the retirement community law. I don't think they do audits, but they require retirement communities to have written procedures in place to ensure compliance with the law. These procedures are approved by HUD. Anyone can file a complaint with HUD if they feel they are being negatively affected by non-compliance with the law. In that case, it would be the responsibilty of The Villages to provide evidence that they are in compliance. The Villages could also be fined or sued by HUD for non-compliance with the law. I don't think The Villages would need to keep track of every household to provide sufficient evidence of compliance with the 80/20 rule.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

An opinion:

1/ The Fair Housing Act was Title 8 part of the Civil Rights act of 1968
2/ The Housing for Older People Act (HOPA) of 1995 amended the Fair Housing Act of1 968
a/ Deleted certain requirements for certain facilities and services for qualified housing for persons 55 and older
b/ Set up system allowing some discrimination by Familial age regarding sales of properties in 55 and over communities

Also, to eliminate issues that might lead to suit over refusal to sell/rent to certain persons under the age of 55. Spells out that requirement regarding age -- (i) at least 80 percent of the occupied units are occupied by at least one person who is 55 years of age or older. It makes the Housing Facility or community responsible for maintaining the ratio above.

Now the speculation is how that is done or maintained. The Developer has a goal to maintain the status of an over 55 community which allows them to market to that segment of the population. At some point that responsibility migrates to the community. Perhaps the CDD's.

It would seem that the law specifically benefits the developers, and then the residents only as a byproduct. So, as long as the Developer sells the initial homes, they have control of whom they sell to by age. But, what do they use as their basis for the 80 percent. The whole of the Villages (which gets older each day) or some segment they designate? By law (HOPA) they must track. Could be that over 95% of the homes currently have at least one person over 55. Our community of Caroline at Lake Sumter has around 90 homes and I would guess that 95% have at least 1 person over 55. The Developer could easily keep track of that number even considering sales outside of their control. Likely, they could sell the next 2000 homes to families under 55 years of age without threatening that 80% threshold.

The other part are the covenants regarding persons under 19. I suspect that is a local issue, that might be more of a CDD management issue.

To the OPs concern, yes, we will have the likelihood of many persons under 55 down to age 19 and it would appear that they are entitled to be here. And contrary to some posts, that does not indicate that they are ne're-do-wells.

There also could be some exceptions to the under 19 rule. For example, an owner 55 or older might by some reason become the guardian. Would that owner be required to move to be the guardian. Who administers the exceptions? Would you have any way to overrule by law?

The exception to the under 19 rule - I've posted about this before. A couple of women, both clearly of the appropriate 55+ age, moved in to the neighborhood over a year ago. They BROUGHT WITH THEM a young child, under 10. That - should not have been permitted, there should be no exception made for that.

The exception should only be for those residents who already live here, and find themselves in a custodial situation after they've moved in. If you know in advance that you have a kid living with you, then you don't move into a 55+ community.

Fortunately this couple didn't stay (we think they were sisters with their nephew), but they were bad enough neighbors that the couple next door to them moved to another neighborhood. These women didn't care what the rules were about their nephew. They didn't care about the rules for anything else either. They didn't keep the lawn neat - it was mostly weeds and bare spots, they never used a sprinkler on it. Weeds were growing through cracks in the driveway, they were parking their car in the golf cart driveway, with half the tires on the lawn, making divots in the ground as a result. They didn't respond to anyone offering to help, they were perfectly fine doing things their own way.

We think they might have been tenants who moved in right after the house was sold. But then that would fall on the landlord, who apparently also didn't care.

People who move in, knowingly breaking the rules, are not going to care about any of the rules. Those are the people you need to say "nope - you can't move in here" to.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

How do you know that it is not tracked or is done improperly? How do you know that 'The Villages' is not involved and must approve a private sale? How do you know? Assuming does not count.

As long as we are under 20%, then all sales are ok. So, no one has seen a sale get nixed. How does anyone know what that would look like until it happens?

I know because I bought via a private sale. The seller used an outside real estate agency to list their home. The Villages didn't vet us. They didn't ask us if we had kids moving in. They didn't ask how many pets we had, they didn't ask if we were over 55 - until closing day when they took our out of state licenses to confirm our identities (we hadn't moved here yet, so obviously we didn't have Florida IDs yet).

If we were age 52 and 53, had two grandkids age 8 and 9 moving in with us, they would not have known until we tried to get Villages IDs for them. And by then, it'd be too late.

[Bill14564]

I know because I bought via a private sale. The seller used an outside real estate agency to list their home. The Villages didn't vet us. They didn't ask us if we had kids moving in. They didn't ask how many pets we had, they didn't ask if we were over 55 - until closing day when they took our out of state licenses to confirm our identities (we hadn't moved here yet, so obviously we didn't have Florida IDs yet).

If we were age 52 and 53, had two grandkids age 8 and 9 moving in with us, they would not have known until we tried to get Villages IDs for them. And by then, it'd be too late.

Maybe you dodged a bullet. Maybe you would have been sadly surprised when someone pointed out that the deed restrictions on the home you just purchased did not allow your grandkids to move in with you. It would have put you in a position similar to those that now have to remove the stone that was present when they purchased.

Or, maybe something was happening behind the scenes that you weren't aware of.

If this truly was a private purchase with no agents or lawyers involved and the seller did not mention the restrictions at the time then you really did dodge a bullet.

[mtdjed]

Lady Lake exists in both counties.

Not all deed restricted communities, all 55+ communities that don't allow children. In order to legally refuse to have children as permanent residents the community has to show that they are abiding by the HoPA rules.

A smaller condo complex in Florida with 200 units or less can be sued for discrimination in housing if they refuse to allow a family with children to live there UNLESS they can prove, through the HoPA rules, that they are a 55+ community. Those rules require certifying that at least one resident is over 55 in 80% or more of occupied units.

Interesting article. HOPA sets the min requirement but the developer can establish stricter requirements. Sonewhere the Developer must have published their requirements:

What is HOPA | Age Requirements in 55 and Over Communities (https://www.real-ativity.com/active-adult/whats-hopa/#:~:text=Under%20HOPA%2C%2055%20and%20over%20commu nities%20can%20prohibit,and%20over%20communities%2 0prohibit%20minors%20from%20becoming%20inhabitants ).


"Housing for Older Persons Act
HOPA stands for Housing for Older Persons Act. This act, passed in 1995, allows senior communities to discriminate based on familial status. The Fair Housing Act prevents discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, handicap, and familial status in real estate transactions. A housing community is defined as a building or group of dwellings that are governed by a common set of rules and regulations. This includes homeowners associations, condominiums, co-ops, municipally zoned areas, mobile home parks, and manufactured housing communities.

The 80/20 Rule
In order to qualify for HOPA, at least 80% of households in the community must be occupied by one resident that is over the age of 55. Some 55 and over communities require 100% of the dwellings to be occupied by a resident over the age of 55, while others only adhere to the 80% minimum requirement. This distinction becomes crucial when a resident over the age of 55 passes away and the surviving spouse or heir is under 55. HOPA does not provide any protection to the remaining inhabitant, so they could be forced to sell the property if the community requires 100% of residents to be of age or if the quota for under-age households is full.

Children & 55+ Communities
Under HOPA, 55 and over communities can prohibit families with minor children from owning or renting a dwelling in the community. However, not all 55 and over communities prohibit minors from becoming inhabitants. If the association does permit minors in the governing documents, they can put special rules and regulations in place for families with children. For example, they may impose a rule stating that children will not have access to certain common amenities. The rules put in place explicitly for families with children can’t violate any state or local laws. Communities may discriminate based on familial status, but there are no exemptions for discrimination based on other protected classes."

[Marathon Man]

I know because I bought via a private sale. The seller used an outside real estate agency to list their home. The Villages didn't vet us. They didn't ask us if we had kids moving in. They didn't ask how many pets we had, they didn't ask if we were over 55 - until closing day when they took our out of state licenses to confirm our identities (we hadn't moved here yet, so obviously we didn't have Florida IDs yet).

If we were age 52 and 53, had two grandkids age 8 and 9 moving in with us, they would not have known until we tried to get Villages IDs for them. And by then, it'd be too late.

Kids and pets have nothing to do with HOPA. And again, you have no way of knowing what happened prior to closing. It is very easy to find the age of a person. It is an assumption that nothing is done because you did not see it.

[Bill14564]

Interesting article. HOPA sets the min requirement but the developer can establish stricter requirements. Sonewhere the Developer must have published their requirements:

...

The requirements are in your deed restrictions.

Mine say:
- 80/20
- Must be 19 to be a permanent resident
- Under 19 limited to 30 days per calendar year

[JGibson]

Is there anything legally stopping the developer from dropping the 55 retirement community status?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Is there anything legally stopping the developer from dropping the 55 retirement community status?

Yes. The deed restrictions that everyone agreed to when moving in. They offer us some guarantees, one of which is that our community will be a 55+ community. If they eliminate that guarantee, then we can file a class action suit - the entire community as a whole, against the Developer.

And we'd win.

[tophcfa]

The requirements are in your deed restrictions.

Mine say:
- 80/20
- Must be 19 to be a permanent resident
- Under 19 limited to 30 days per calendar year

Those are internal deed restrictions. The entity authorized to enforce them can do so at their discretion, but are not required to enforce them. Do deed restrictions really exist if they are selectively enforced?

[Bill14564]

Those are internal deed restrictions. The entity authorized to enforce them can do so at their discretion, but are not required to enforce them. Do deed restrictions really exist if they are selectively enforced?

*Are* they being selectively enforced? I've read accusations but not facts.

Realistically, since the details of an internal deed restriction case handled by the Developer would not be made public we might never know what was determined. We may see someone leave or they might still be present but we wouldn't know the difference between non-enforcement and a non-case.