Visibility of Gate Arms

[mminternet]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

[LuvtheVillages]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

Yes, many people have complained about the visibility of the gate arms. (Surely it cannot be because our eyes are aging?!)

Response to previous complaints has been that there is a standard for how the gate arms have to be, and our gate arms meet the standard.

I agree that flashing lights, fluttering fringes, neon paint, etc, would be an appreciated improvement. But - our gate arms meet the standard.

Well, why can't we exceed the standard? Why can't we add more visibility than the minimum?

[Bill14564]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

Several previous threads on this if you search for them.

The arms on entrances should drop between each car. Be safe: expect it, plan on it, use your card or the red button in any case.

The arms on exits seem to vary from gate to gate and sometimes even at the same gate. Sometimes they will stay up if you are close to the car in front and other times they come down quickly. But in either case, you know the arm is there so make sure you see where it is before driving through.

The PWAC is the committee to approach with your concerns. Be aware though that the PWAC has already been approached many times with this concern. The three points that seem to come up every time are:
1. The gates are on public roads and so they must abide by the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/index.htm). This is usually interpreted to disallow any suggested visibility aids
2. Everyone should already know the gates are present
3. The problem is not with the gates but with impatient drivers who try to slip through without waiting.

NOTE: You probably haven't seen any broken arms. You've seen arms that are not attached. This certainly could be due to a gate strike but it also could be due to a malfunctioning mechanism.

[tophcfa]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.

[twoplanekid]

To try to make/suggest changes to most systems (ways of doing things) in the Villages is difficult for many reasons. For one, there are many rules and regulations both Federal, state and local that must be complied with before a change. Most of the systems used in the Villages have been around a long time thus are tried and true to be currently the best. Plus, the same exact suggestions/questions have been asked time and time again to then receive the same answers that changes will be made if needed and or allowed.

It took me two years of asking and suggesting while serving on the NSCUDD board to have the NSCUDD name and logo placed on Jacobs waste management trucks. A easy/good suggestion can be made but sometimes takes a while to implemented.:)

If you would do a scan of this site you would find many threads that cover your questions and suggestions in great detail such as ->

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/gate-posts-improvement-340596/?highlight=gate+lighting

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.

I don't hate to say it.

Thing is - if you're coming to a gate, there is probably a gate house. Gate houses are hard to miss, even if your eyesight is bad. Anyone driving up to a gate house should be thinking "hm - a big structure at the entrance to this neighborhood. I should probably stop, or at least slow down significantly." And then they slow down significantly, which is when they discover - "well how about that, there's a gate here. I guess I'll stop."

This isn't brain surgery or rocket science. If you can see well enough to not drive off the side of the road, then you can see well enough to notice some kind of "thing" at a neighborhood entrance that you should pay attention to.

[thelegges]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.

With sun at certain times gates are hard to see, no matter what vision you have. Plus with as many cataract surgeries done weekly, many have 20/20.

But within 1 day of visiting TV, every driver get the big picture if they can or cannot see a gate. There is a gate crossing or exit at each village, with a gate house, or a big sign that says resident entry.

[GpaVader]

Gate arms are worthless and should be removed. It's an added expense to maintain. I understand and support some entrances needing them to control traffic, especially where cart and pedestrian crossings are on the other side, but great examples in Fenney and Hammock at Fenney, they are a waste of time and resources.

[Topspinmo]

No, I know they are there so I slow down according.

[Topspinmo]

Gate arms are worthless and should be removed. It's an added expense to maintain. I understand and support some entrances needing them to control traffic, especially where cart and pedestrian crossings are on the other side, but great examples in Fenney and Hammock at Fenney, they are a waste of time and resources.



I just love when gate arms are off and put the stop at the door guard shack (which few stop anyway) where you can’t see nothing from left. The temporary stop signs IMO needs to be after the guard shack, that why uiu can see any thing crossing form left. IMO there also should be painted white stop line at gate so when gate down and no stop sign some might think about stopping and looking.

[Maker]

The gate arms must meet a MINIMUM standard. There is nothing stopping them from EXCEEDING the standard, except of course, more upfront money and more maintenance costs. Most people oppose spending even more money on the gate system.

Many people are in favor of removing all the gates, and all the landscaping (including gate houses) that blocks clear vision of crossing traffic. That would be a huge safety improvement. I wonder if the existing blocked views fail road construction standards and would get removed if challenged? What happens when someone gets hurt and TV is sued by an injury lawyer for multi-millions because those obstructions were deliberately placed, and TV was negligent since they "should have known" that they blocked seeing other traffic.
Getting rid of all that would reduce costs and legal risks, across the board.

[swooner]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.
Amen to that

[SIRE1]

I would really like to know if most of the gate arms are broken at the entrance side to a village or at the exit side. Since we all know that you must stop and swipe your gate pass at an entrance gate, seeing the gate arm shouldn't be the problem. At an exit gate, however, visibility might be an issue. I've seen gates that stay open for multiple cars and being able to see whether the gate is staying up or already on the way down might be a problem. If there are a significant number of broke entrance gates, I suspect that the broken gates are strictly the attempt to tailgate behind the prior vehicle without stopping first, and improved gate visibility won't help that.

[Stu from NYC]

99% of the time very visable but if the sun hits it just right can see where some will have a problem

[fdpaq0580]

Gate visibility varies from one gate to the next and with time of day and weather conditions. Often times they are difficult to see, their dull dirty, faded colors blending with background like a person in camouflage. How often I see someone drive past the mechanism, straight to the gate and stop abruptly, then sit there wondering what to do next or hoping someone else will open the gate for them. I try to make sure they have room to back up.

[superbat1]

My wife and I have lived in the villages for 17 years, have gone thru the gates 1,000's of times without hitting one gate. We new from day one that the gates exist. I don't belive it's the gates fault.

[Stu from NYC]

My wife and I have lived in the villages for 17 years, have gone thru the gates 1,000's of times without hitting one gate. We new from day one that the gates exist. I don't belive it's the gates fault.

Well did see once where the gate went up, the car started immediately thru and the gate fell on the car.

[dhdallas]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

If you can't see the gate arms & just forgot they were there (even though you may have driven in & out hundreds of times) then it's time to stop driving. You could add blinding lights and & neon paint and people would still hit the gates. Just last week a woman somehow managed to roll her car over in front of a gate and hit a car that was waiting for the gate to open, I would estimate that about 1/3 of TV should not be driving. Then when you add in the amount of alcoholics who drive drunk it's no wonder the gates get hit so often. Put down the drink, pay attention, and be patient and the gate system will work just fine as is.

[Rwirish]

No problem seeing them at all. Only one car is to go thru the gate each time. Most people don’t comply resulting in hitting the gates ( one of the reasons ).

Pay attention and follow the rules.

[jimdecastro]

Great post. The VHA has asked for reflective tape to be added. You cannot do lights because the design is that the gates break away and the wire would either break or cause the gate to wedge and increase damage to vehicles and District Property.

[NotGolfer]

Haven't seen it in awhile but when we first moved here 14 yrs ago, we'd see folks tail-gating through a gate because they didn't want to take the time to swipe their card or hit the button. Then there are the workers with large trucks and pulling a wagon and the gate doesn't allow for that (for whatever reason). These are two of the reasons the gates might be hit. Other reasons might be because of imparments of some kind (age, sight-perception). I do agree that sometimes it's tough to see the gates due to the shadows etc. BUT as others stated you should always be aware that even if there isn't a gate house that each neighborhood (village) has these. It's to regulate traffic AND to help keep cart-drivers safe. When the cart-drivers try to beat the traffic that poses yet another problem and one sees this ALL the time. IF you don't know how we do stuff in the villages because you're new---there is a new resident's meeting held regularily that you can attend to find out "stuff".
On a side note....I observe perception issues quite often. People not pulling up in a parking spot or missing the lines altogether. Yesterday saw a car not pulling up properly at a light and another who didn't pull up in a parking spot at the mailboxes.

[golfing eagles]

No problem seeing them at all. Only one car is to go thru the gate each time. Most people don’t comply resulting in hitting the gates ( one of the reasons ).

Pay attention and follow the rules.

In addition, I wonder if a driver can't see a gate that they know is there, how many other potential and unexpected hazards don't they see. Like somebody's 4 year old grandchild. LEARN TO DRIVE OR WALK.

[birdiebill]

Once we have been here a day or so, we know there is a gate arm at the entrance to and exit from each village off/on main roads. The speed for approaching each gate entrance or exit is 5 MPH. Slow down and expect the gate to be there. If we can't see it, we should not be driving. I expect people in a hurry cause many of the gate hits, and impaired driving causes others.

[bonrich]

Change the shape of the gate arm to flat vs. round.

[Rzepecki]

Yes, many people have complained about the visibility of the gate arms. (Surely it cannot be because our eyes are aging?!)

Response to previous complaints has been that there is a standard for how the gate arms have to be, and our gate arms meet the standard.

I agree that flashing lights, fluttering fringes, neon paint, etc, would be an appreciated improvement. But - our gate arms meet the standard.

Well, why can't we exceed the standard? Why can't we add more visibility than the minimum?

Is that what you want your amenity fee spent on? Not me. I know the gate arm is there and drive accordingly.

[Sherkugawa]

I was in the camp that the arms are visible enough that no one should miss them. Then, one day, heading south on Morse approaching 466 I was in bright Sun and the gates were in shade. They were invisible until I was right up to them.

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

[golfing eagles]

I was in the camp that the arms are visible enough that no one should miss them. Then, one day, heading south on Morse approaching 466 I was in bright Sun and the gates were in shade. They were invisible until I was right up to them.

And you didn't know as you approached that they were there and slow down appropriately until you saw them?

[MrFlorida]

Gate arms are worthless and should be removed. It's an added expense to maintain. I understand and support some entrances needing them to control traffic, especially where cart and pedestrian crossings are on the other side, but great examples in Fenney and Hammock at Fenney, they are a waste of time and resources.

I guess you don't drive a golf cart, we use the gates to see if a car is coming , gate down no car, gate up car.... I can't imagine how fast cars would zip through without them.

[MrFlorida]

I often see skid marks leading into the center of the round-a-bouts.... sometimes knocking down light poles....maybe we should remove them too ? Get your eyes fixed.

[DonnaNi4os]

If you go in and out of your community, or just about any community in The Villages, you know that there is an arm when you go in and out. If people drive through it I suspect that falls under inattentive driving (or driving under the influence).

[DonnaNi4os]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.

You read my mind

[Two Bills]

The main problem with much of society today, is that if anything goes wrong, it's someone else's fault.
Personal responsibility went out the window years ago.
Morgan and Morgan et al, are waiting for your call!

[Bilyclub]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.


Welcome to TOTV. The search button is your friend. This has been rehashed many times. Slow down is the best answer. The Pinellas Plaza gate was missing yesterday, but I still slowed down and stopped out of habit. If you can't see all the infrastructure that entails the gates, maybe it's time to turn in that license.

[chuckpedrey]

I have been to several gated communities that have very easy to see gate arms. I have sent videos to The Villages showing the various styles of gate arms that are far superior to ours. It is rumored that the fine for knocking down a gate arm is upwards of $850. Maybe there is an income stream to The Villages that has been kept a secret.

[Captainpd]

With sun at certain times gates are hard to see, no matter what vision you have. Plus with as many cataract surgeries done weekly, many have 20/20.

But within 1 day of visiting TV, every driver get the big picture if they can or cannot see a gate. There is a gate crossing or exit at each village, with a gate house, or a big sign that says resident entry.

Cataract surgery DOESN'T GIVE YOU 20/20 VISION. GEEZZ

[Captainpd]

I have been to several gated communities that have very easy to see gate arms. I have sent videos to The Villages showing the various styles of gate arms that are far superior to ours. It is rumored that the fine for knocking down a gate arm is upwards of $850. Maybe there is an income stream to The Villages that has been kept a secret.

A rumor answer. How about posting your source for this "rumor"

[golfing eagles]

Cataract surgery DOESN'T GIVE YOU 20/20 VISION. GEEZZ

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. 30-50% of patients post ECCE with IOL need glasses to achieve 20/20

(GEEZZ)

[Mulliganguy]

Too many blind intersections throughout the Villages due to tall shrubbery and other plant life planted right in the line of sight of gates and intersecting roads. I think a plan is in place to help speed up attrition 😜

[golfing eagles]

Too many blind intersections throughout the Villages due to tall shrubbery and other plant life planted right in the line of sight of gates and intersecting roads. I think a plan is in place to help speed up attrition 😜

Please give one, JUST ONE example of a gate blocked by tall shrubbery. Remember, the discussion is about cars hitting the gate arms because the driver didn't see them, not those gates that have MMP crossings that have some plantings that obscure the oncoming traffic---especially when the gate arm is missing.

[Maker]

It's an unsafe design to have walls, shrubs, rocks, etc that are placed in a way to block the line of sight between cars and golf carts at any crossing. Are we just lucky Morgan and Morgan have not sued the villages yet for an injury accident where one party states "I couldn't see the car because TV put unsafe obstructions on the public roadway".
Why is that allowed to exist?
Why do golf carts have to inch into the roadway to see if a car is coming? Is that safe?
I do not trust crossing based upon seeing a gate arm down because the time a truck that plowed right through it without stopping.

[Fltpkr]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

Yes, we do. The gates are much harder for us to see in the bright daylight. At night, the reflection from our headlights makes them very visible to us.

[wolfie]

A lot of other communities use flashing LED lights that are powered by Solar. This has been brought up numerous times for whatever reason the powers to be refuse to do it. Maybe the company that repair the arms have a strong connection in:MOJE_whot: The Villages who knows but yes still hard to see at certain times a day even if you have 2020.

[golfing eagles]

Yes, we do. The gates are much harder for us to see in the bright daylight. At night, the reflection from our headlights makes them very visible to us.

And what does that tell you?????

[tophcfa]

Yes, we do. The gates are much harder for us to see in the bright daylight. At night, the reflection from our headlights makes them very visible to us.

And what does that tell you?????

It tells me that the driver needs to come to a full stop in front of every gate and not proceed until they have clearly identified that the gate is not blocking their path. If they can’t identify that, well, then they shouldn’t be driving.

Take personal responsibility and stop the excuses, bright light, cataract surgery, round gate arms, Bla Bla Bla.

[Fastskiguy]

It's an unsafe design to have walls, shrubs, rocks, etc that are placed in a way to block the line of sight between cars and golf carts at any crossing. Are we just lucky Morgan and Morgan have not sued the villages yet for an injury accident where one party states "I couldn't see the car because TV put unsafe obstructions on the public roadway".
Why is that allowed to exist?
Why do golf carts have to inch into the roadway to see if a car is coming? Is that safe?
I do not trust crossing based upon seeing a gate arm down because the time a truck that plowed right through it without stopping.

My theory is that "stuff" is placed to slow traffic...so that you actually must come to a stop and take a second to look both ways before blasting thru a gate or intersection. "Traffic Calming Shrubbery" if you will<-I made that term up.

Seems like something to slow down the maniacs is a good idea. I could be wrong though!

Joe

[MrFlorida]

You all know the gates are there. STOP !

[Bilyclub]

A lot of other communities use flashing LED lights that are powered by Solar. This has been brought up numerous times for whatever reason the powers to be refuse to do it. Maybe the company that repair the arms have a strong connection in:MOJE_whot: The Villages who knows but yes still hard to see at certain times a day even if you have 2020.

How many gates do these communities have? Two, three, maybe four gates ? Why should everybody have to pay because a very small percentage of drivers are ignorant of the rules here and take down the gates. The areas around the gates clearly are a big hint that there will be a gate.

[Bertram00]

Yes, many people have complained about the visibility of the gate arms. (Surely it cannot be because our eyes are aging?!)

Response to previous complaints has been that there is a standard for how the gate arms have to be, and our gate arms meet the standard.

I agree that flashing lights, fluttering fringes, neon paint, etc, would be an appreciated improvement. But - our gate arms meet the standard.

Well, why can't we exceed the standard? Why can't we add more visibility than the minimum?

Why not add sirens as well ⁉️🙄

[Bill14564]

Yes, many people have complained about the visibility of the gate arms. (Surely it cannot be because our eyes are aging?!)

Response to previous complaints has been that there is a standard for how the gate arms have to be, and our gate arms meet the standard.

I agree that flashing lights, fluttering fringes, neon paint, etc, would be an appreciated improvement. But - our gate arms meet the standard.

Well, why can't we exceed the standard? Why can't we add more visibility than the minimum?

A lot of other communities use flashing LED lights that are powered by Solar. This has been brought up numerous times for whatever reason the powers to be refuse to do it. Maybe the company that repair the arms have a strong connection in:MOJE_whot: The Villages who knows but yes still hard to see at certain times a day even if you have 2020.

Gates in the Villages are on public roads. The District and the lawyers have claimed that due to this, the gates must follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. You want a more visible gate? Find a way to do that while staying in compliance with that manual then bring the suggestion to a PWAC meeting.

The gates are designed to break off at the bolts when they are impacted with enough force. This reduces damage to the vehicle impacting it and reduces damage to the gate and the mechanism that lifts it. When you find an approach to increasing the visibility of the gate, make sure it does not add weight. If weight is added to the gates then the whole system would need to be strengthened which could be costly to install, more costly to repair, and more damaging to vehicles.

OR, drivers could slow down and pay more attention at areas where they already know gates exist.

[Marathon Man]

Please name the communities that have placed flashing lights on their gates. I want to stay far far away from them.

[Goldwingnut]

Gates in the Villages are on public roads. The District and the lawyers have claimed that due to this, the gates must follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. You want a more visible gate? Find a way to do that while staying in compliance with that manual then bring the suggestion to a PWAC meeting.

The gates are designed to break off at the bolts when they are impacted with enough force. This reduces damage to the vehicle impacting it and reduces damage to the gate and the mechanism that lifts it. When you find an approach to increasing the visibility of the gate, make sure it does not add weight. If weight is added to the gates then the whole system would need to be strengthened which could be costly to install, more costly to repair, and more damaging to vehicles.

OR, drivers could slow down and pay more attention at areas where they already know gates exist.

Bill,
If you continue to use common sense, logic, and facts, you may get banned from this thread...

[chicksinger]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.

I've also thought that perhaps using the newer more visible fluorescent lime green (like the school signs elsewhere) would be a better choice... and yes, the arms come off all the time because people knock them out...but they now have to pay for doing that...so be careful!

[jimjamuser]

Just curious if others have difficulty seeing the gate arms at the main entrances? At the main entrance near our home, the arm/bar will stay up for an extended amount of time and then at other times they drop between each car. Regardless, they can be difficult to see due to rain/sun/etc... Why are there not flashing lights on these? The red paint/tape isn't doing much for visibility. I imagine solar powered lights could be added without a lot of expense to the gate arm. I've seen several broken arms so it must be an issue... Is there a department in the Villages where a person could voice their concerns? Thanks.
The gates are often in the shade of large trees and therefore hard to see, so orange paint plus reflectors at night should help. And I can't stand the idea that we can't fix this because we have ALWAYS done it this was, and regulations don't allow us to try new things. Damn the stupid regulations, lives are being lost, fix the DAMN things
. ......Are WE in charge of our lives in the Villages or are we controlled by stupid, useless regulation.
......It's a PROBLEM. So, TRY A new approach. Is that so radical?

[phylt]

The gates are often in the shade of large trees and therefore hard to see, so orange paint plus reflectors at night should help. And I can't stand the idea that we can't fix this because we have ALWAYS done it this was, and regulations don't allow us to try new things. Damn the stupid regulations, lives are being lost, fix the DAMN things
. ......Are WE in charge of our lives in the Villages or are we controlled by stupid, useless regulation.
......It's a PROBLEM. So, TRY A new approach. Is that so radical?

I DO agree. We've lived in TV for nine years now, and well aware of the gates...

But there ARE times, esp at dusk - and shady areas - when it IS difficult to see the slim gate pole. We ARE all aging as well, and better safe than sorry. Anything to assist making gate arms a bit simpler to see under less-than-perfect conditions would be helpful.

This is why I agree.

[fdpaq0580]

Why not add sirens as well ⁉️🙄

Yeah! Or flashing lights like at RR crossings, that start flashing when a sensor detects an approaching vehicle.

[Pairadocs]

Yes, many people have complained about the visibility of the gate arms. (Surely it cannot be because our eyes are aging?!)

Response to previous complaints has been that there is a standard for how the gate arms have to be, and our gate arms meet the standard.

I agree that flashing lights, fluttering fringes, neon paint, etc, would be an appreciated improvement. But - our gate arms meet the standard.

Well, why can't we exceed the standard? Why can't we add more visibility than the minimum?

I have heard people complaining for years, I never really understood how people could miss them... until the morning I went to pick up a friend near the Sea-breeze rec center and even with the visor and tinted window.... I did not see a thing, gate, gate arm, etc. Previous to that, I would have thought the problem was a bit hyped. I found out when the summer sun is straight on early in the a.m., everything is blotted out. Some have mentioned any kind of "fluttering" like fringe would help but maybe nothing is made that would actually stick on for long ?

[margaretmattson]

I have heard people complaining for years, I never really understood how people could miss them... until the morning I went to pick up a friend near the Sea-breeze rec center and even with the visor and tinted window.... I did not see a thing, gate, gate arm, etc. Previous to that, I would have thought the problem was a bit hyped. I found out when the summer sun is straight on early in the a.m., everything is blotted out. Some have mentioned any kind of "fluttering" like fringe would help but maybe nothing is made that would actually stick on for long ? Not being able to see a gate has happened to me on several occasions. The blaring sun is usually the culprit. But, as other posters have stated common sense tells you they are there. Slow down when entering, take the time to view your surroundings, (I find it easy to look for the red button), then proceed with caution.

[Marathon Man]

Having trouble seeing the gates makes you forget that they are there. Is that it????? I'm having trouble understanding the issue.

[MrFlorida]

For those who have trouble seeing the gates, do you have thes same trouble out on the roads with stop signs ? or even red lights ? Asking for a friend.

[clekr]

If you cannot see the gate arms just the way they are, you should not be driving.

[DonH57]

If you cannot see the gate arms just the way they are, you should not be driving.

About the same as those who've added super bright golf cart lights aimed up at every thing except the cart path blinding oncoming traffic and still can't determine they're in the middle of the cart path till they almost side swipe you.

[Laker14]

Some things to consider:
- Optic green is well known to be more easily seen, especially at night, than red, yet, the gates use reflective red tape for visibility rather than optic green.

-Optic Green tape does not weigh more than red tape

-Yes, we Villagers know about the gates and should be able to anticipate their location, however, good traffic design does not assume every driver to be a local. Non-residents also use these public roads, (that's why they are called "public roads").

It seems that an easy step to take to make the signs more visible would be to employ the Optic-Green reflective tape. Will it solve the problem 100%? No, of course not. But that is not the benchmark for a reasonable improvement.
Would it be cost effective? I believe it would. Perhaps that's why the red firetrucks in TV have the stuff on their bumpers.

[Bill14564]

Some things to consider:
- Optic green is well known to be more easily seen, especially at night, than red, yet, the gates use reflective red tape for visibility rather than optic green.

-Optic Green tape does not weigh more than red tape

-Yes, we Villagers know about the gates and should be able to anticipate their location, however, good traffic design does not assume every driver to be a local. Non-residents also use these public roads, (that's why they are called "public roads").

It seems that an easy step to take to make the signs more visible would be to employ the Optic-Green reflective tape. Will it solve the problem 100%? No, of course not. But that is not the benchmark for a reasonable improvement.
Would it be cost effective? I believe it would. Perhaps that's why the red firetrucks in TV have the stuff on their bumpers.

If you are unable to see the very large fire truck in front of you with all its reflective coatings and lights, is a strip of green tape on the bumper going to make a difference?

It has been said in several meetings that the gates at the entrances must follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD). I believe these gates are governed by section 2B.68 of that manual. Find the manual, read the section, determine whether Optic-Green reflective tape is permitted, then come to a PWAC meeting with that information and make the suggestion. Simple.

[Laker14]

If you are unable to see the very large fire truck in front of you with all its reflective coatings and lights, is a strip of green tape on the bumper going to make a difference?

It has been said in several meetings that the gates at the entrances must follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD). I believe these gates are governed by section 2B.68 of that manual. Find the manual, read the section, determine whether Optic-Green reflective tape is permitted, then come to a PWAC meeting with that information and make the suggestion. Simple.

Thanks Coach! I'll get right on it!

[golfing eagles]

Some things to consider:
- Optic green is well known to be more easily seen, especially at night, than red, yet, the gates use reflective red tape for visibility rather than optic green.

-Optic Green tape does not weigh more than red tape

-Yes, we Villagers know about the gates and should be able to anticipate their location, however, good traffic design does not assume every driver to be a local. Non-residents also use these public roads, (that's why they are called "public roads").

It seems that an easy step to take to make the signs more visible would be to employ the Optic-Green reflective tape. Will it solve the problem 100%? No, of course not. But that is not the benchmark for a reasonable improvement.
Would it be cost effective? I believe it would. Perhaps that's why the red firetrucks in TV have the stuff on their bumpers.

Maybe. But it seems to me the problem is not so much the gates as it is the drivers. Again, if they can't see a gate, can they see your 4 year old grandchild? Should that person be driving? Should we put optical green tape on visiting grandkids???

[Laker14]

Maybe. But it seems to me the problem is not so much the gates as it is the drivers. Again, if they can't see a gate, can they see your 4 year old grandchild? Should that person be driving? Should we put optical green tape on visiting grandkids???

From a practical point of view, I think it's more useful to deal with the world as it is, and not as we may envision a more ideal version.

Bad drivers aren't going away. No treatment of the gate arms will eliminate screw-ups. However, it is obvious that the more visible the arms are, the fewer times they will get hit. That's why law mandates a certain treatment of the gate to enhance visibility.
It is well known that Optic Green is more visible than red and white striping.

Hence, it seems in keeping with the intent of maximizing visibility, Optic Green would be a superior option over red and white striping.

[golfing eagles]

From a practical point of view, I think it's more useful to deal with the world as it is, and not as we may envision a more ideal version.

Bad drivers aren't going away. No treatment of the gate arms will eliminate screw-ups. However, it is obvious that the more visible the arms are, the fewer times they will get hit. That's why law mandates a certain treatment of the gate to enhance visibility.
It is well known that Optic Green is more visible than red and white striping.

Hence, it seems in keeping with the intent of maximizing visibility, Optic Green would be a superior option over red and white striping.

Maybe. But given some of the drivers here, no matter what you do to the gate they will still get hit. Personally, I would like to see a tire puncture strip that only goes down when the gate goes up----the idiot who hits the gate should share in the inconvenience he has caused everyone else. Plus---it would stop those cyclists who just blow around the gate without even slowing, much to the chagrin of a cart crossing that had limited visibility and had to rely on whether the gate is up or down to determine if it is safe to cross

[Bogie Shooter]

From a practical point of view, I think it's more useful to deal with the world as it is, and not as we may envision a more ideal version.

Bad drivers aren't going away. No treatment of the gate arms will eliminate screw-ups. However, it is obvious that the more visible the arms are, the fewer times they will get hit. That's why law mandates a certain treatment of the gate to enhance visibility.
It is well known that Optic Green is more visible than red and white striping.

Hence, it seems in keeping with the intent of maximizing visibility, Optic Green would be a superior option over red and white striping.

I think you are ready with your opinions…….go to the PWAC meeting.

[woodywdmt]

The gates have gate arms unless they have been wiped out by a careless driver. Villagers should be aware that they are there. It's a fact of Villages life. Nuff said.

[Number 10 GI]

EVERY gate that I've gone through in TV there is a scanner you have to pass your entry card over to get the gate to open. How do you forget that you have to stop and do that???? There is a gate arm at every gate I've passed through in TV how do you forget that? At all the gates I've seen, the scanner is around 10 feet back from the gate. How can you not see a gate arm 10 feet in front of you? Don't give me the "sun was in my eyes" excuse. How do you see the road if the sun is in your eyes? Have you not heard of sunglasses? If you can't see the gate arm, it's time to turn in your driver's license before you potentially kill someone because you couldn't see them because the sun was in your eyes. Is your desire to drive more important than a life?

[JMintzer]

EVERY gate that I've gone through in TV there is a scanner you have to pass your entry card over to get the gate to open. How do you forget that you have to stop and do that???? There is a gate arm at every gate I've passed through in TV how do you forget that? At all the gates I've seen, the scanner is around 10 feet back from the gate. How can you not see a gate arm 10 feet in front of you? Don't give me the "sun was in my eyes" excuse. How do you see the road if the sun is in your eyes? Have you not heard of sunglasses? If you can't see the gate arm, it's time to turn in your driver's license before you potentially kill someone because you couldn't see them because the sun was in your eyes. Is your desire to drive more important than a life?

https://media.tenor.com/lWweyQKIjIkAAAAC/this.gif

[kkingston57]

I hate to say this, but if you can’t see the gate arms, after properly coming to a stop regardless of the gate positioning, then you probably shouldn’t be driving.

Politely dis agree and depends upon what is the background. Gate for Morse, south of 466 and headed south hard to see.

[kkingston57]

EVERY gate that I've gone through in TV there is a scanner you have to pass your entry card over to get the gate to open. How do you forget that you have to stop and do that???? There is a gate arm at every gate I've passed through in TV how do you forget that? At all the gates I've seen, the scanner is around 10 feet back from the gate. How can you not see a gate arm 10 feet in front of you? Don't give me the "sun was in my eyes" excuse. How do you see the road if the sun is in your eyes? Have you not heard of sunglasses? If you can't see the gate arm, it's time to turn in your driver's license before you potentially kill someone because you couldn't see them because the sun was in your eyes. Is your desire to drive more important than a life?

I am not blaming sun in my eyes (or any other persons eyes) but the exit gates at Morse and 441 are down a lot. The sun is glaring in the morning hours. I do have good eyesight. This gate is hard to see. It blends in with the background and does not open and close consistently. It would help to mark this gate so that it can be seen more easily. Love to have the contract to fix these gates.

[Bill14564]

Politely dis agree and depends upon what is the background. Gate for Morse, south of 466 and headed south hard to see.

Perhaps hard to see because there are no gates on Morse south of 466.

If you mean the gate on Morse heading south and approaching 466 then perhaps the large building in the center of the road should be a clue

[Number 10 GI]

I am not blaming sun in my eyes (or any other persons eyes) but the exit gates at Morse and 441 are down a lot. The sun is glaring in the morning hours. I do have good eyesight. This gate is hard to see. It blends in with the background and does not open and close consistently. It would help to mark this gate so that it can be seen more easily. Love to have the contract to fix these gates.

But you are blaming the glaring sun being in your eyes. If you can't see the gate arm because it blends in with the background, maybe your eyesight isn't as good as you believe it is. Still doesn't address how you can forget there is a gate arm at the entrance and that you have to stop at the card reader. Take a little more time after you stop at the card scaner and concentrate on seeing the gate arm.

I fought getting hearing aids because I believed my hearing was OK. After pictures almost falling off the walls from vibration because of the high volume I had the television set at, I finally realized I was pretty deaf.

[Laker14]

Hey, if we are going to rely on memory, why put any reflective material on at all?
If we are going to put reflective tape on, perhaps there is a reason to do so, and if so, perhaps the most visible of colors should be used. That would be optic green, not red.
But hey, let's just rely on memory, and the knowledge that "scanner=gate".

I've never hit a gate, and I've never come close to hitting a gate. But I have noticed that certain gates at certain times of day are hard to see.

[Bill14564]

Hey, if we are going to rely on memory, why put any reflective material on at all?
If we are going to put reflective tape on, perhaps there is a reason to do so, and if so, perhaps the most visible of colors should be used. That would be optic green, not red.
But hey, let's just rely on memory, and the knowledge that "scanner=gate".

I've never hit a gate, and I've never come close to hitting a gate. But I have noticed that certain gates at certain times of day are hard to see.

That would have been an ideal suggestion for you to bring to the PWAC meeting this past Monday. Maybe next month.

[Laker14]

That would have been an ideal suggestion for you to bring to the PWAC meeting this past Monday. Maybe next month.

No thanks. While it is obvious that Optic Green would be an improvement on the current red and white reflective material, the gates are, as far as I can surmise, in compliance with the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices.

While I may be willing to waste some of my time engaging in a conversation about the shortcomings of the current situation, and I am willing to express my disagreement with the attitude of "if you have trouble seeing the gates you should stop driving", I am definitely not willing to spend a lot of time trying to convince the bureaucracy to change something that they should already know they've screwed up, but will be unwilling to admit.

On my list of battles I'd be willing to pick, this one would be pretty far down the page.

[Fltpkr]

The OP asked if others have trouble seeing the gates. It was a simple question and I gave a simple answer. No cataracts, no excuses, no bla bla bla. The gates are simply not as visible to me in daylight hours, as at night. Don’t understand why this answer would upset someone.

[golfing eagles]

The OP asked if others have trouble seeing the gates. It was a simple question and I gave a simple answer. No cataracts, no excuses, no bla bla bla. The gates are simply not as visible to me in daylight hours, as at night. Don’t understand why this answer would upset someone.

I don't know. Maybe someone feels that a driver who can't see a gate that they KNOW is there won't be able to see their 4 year old grandchild who pops out unexpectedly? Or is that too simple and blah, blah, blah???????

[Fltpkr]

Comparing a 4 year old child and a village gate - seriously? This thread has got too weird and argumentative - signing off.

[Laker14]

I don't know. Maybe someone feels that a driver who can't see a gate that they KNOW is there won't be able to see their 4 year old grandchild who pops out unexpectedly? Or is that too simple and blah, blah, blah???????

You raise a fair point. And I think most of us would agree that if you are responsible for the well being of a 4 year old, they shouldn't be running around unsupervised anywhere near where they might be struck by a car.
Also, were I responsible for a 4 year old, or a dog, or my own person, walking along the roadway in a low-light or setting sun situation, I would be using some sort of Optic-Green high visibility reflective garment to make myself, my dog, or my grandie as visible as possible.
We see this all of the time along the roads and MMPs among bicyclists, and runners, and walkers. Sometimes in the gloaming we come across someone NOT wearing this type of high visibility garment and they suddenly pop out of the mottled shade/sun lighting along the road or MMP and we think "what an idiot. They're going to get hit and blame the driver".
That seems simple to me.

And, before someone suggests it to me, I don't want to go to a meeting of any sort and try to convince lawmakers that all of this should be mandatory. It's just common sense. I'll take care of myself, and keep my eyes peeled for those who wish to tempt the fates.

[golfing eagles]

Comparing a 4 year old child and a village gate - seriously? This thread has got too weird and argumentative - signing off.

YES, SERIOUSLY. What part of the analogy comparing a small child and a small gate arm as far as visibility and knowledge of their presence goes is "weird and argumentative"?. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[fdpaq0580]

YES, SERIOUSLY. What part of the analogy comparing a small child and a small gate arm as far as visibility and knowledge of their presence goes is "weird and argumentative"?. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If the small child was strapped to the gate arm it would be much easier to see.

[golfing eagles]

If the small child was strapped to the gate arm it would be much easier to see.

And hit?????

[Foxtrot]

If there were no gate arms, the golf carts would have a hard time getting through or get hit.

[Chi-Town]

Making the gates more visible won't hurt anyone and may help others. No big deal.

[DonH57]

If there were no gate arms, the golf carts would have a hard time getting through or get hit.

And pedestrians would have to have epic track and field skills!:1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

And pedestrians would have to have epic track and field skills!:1rotfl:

Or be exceptional at playing "Frogger"...

[Maker]

I want transparent gate arms. Take them all down to accomplish that. Get rid of the landscaping blocking the view of cross traffic. Save lots of money.

[Bilyclub]

I want transparent gate arms. Take them all down to accomplish that. Get rid of the landscaping blocking the view of cross traffic. Save lots of money.

As Mick Jagger sang:

And no, you can't always get what you want
No, you can't always get what you want
Well, no, you can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You get what you need

[Pairadocs]

Gate arms are worthless and should be removed. It's an added expense to maintain. I understand and support some entrances needing them to control traffic, especially where cart and pedestrian crossings are on the other side, but great examples in Fenney and Hammock at Fenney, they are a waste of time and resources.

If the actual total spent annually on these gates (we think of them as vanity icons so we villagers can impress family and guests that we live in a "private country club" community....LOL ! It would be interesting to tabulate and compare, any differences in accidents, etc. on the days when all gate arms are removed. For instance, sometimes for multiple days in a row due to hurricane threats. Are MORE people hit on the days there are no gate arms ? More golf carts hit ? More auto accidents ? Who knows, we may be able to save hundreds of thousands of dollars to just do away with the "illusion" of how exclusive it is here ? Is there a point to having traffic backed up to 466 just to turn onto Belvidere near the library or high school ? Might me worth studying, but think the idea has always been more to sell the illusion of a private community ?

[Laker14]

If the actual total spent annually on these gates (we think of them as vanity icons so we villagers can impress family and guests that we live in a "private country club" community....LOL ! It would be interesting to tabulate and compare, any differences in accidents, etc. on the days when all gate arms are removed. For instance, sometimes for multiple days in a row due to hurricane threats. Are MORE people hit on the days there are no gate arms ? More golf carts hit ? More auto accidents ? Who knows, we may be able to save hundreds of thousands of dollars to just do away with the "illusion" of how exclusive it is here ? Is there a point to having traffic backed up to 466 just to turn onto Belvidere near the library or high school ? Might me worth studying, but think the idea has always been more to sell the illusion of a private community ?

The gate arms do more than just create an illusion (although I doubt the developer and its sales team do little to dissuade potential buyers from believing in the illusion), in that they create a visible and predictable break in traffic, in between each automobile, to facilitate golf cart crossings at those intersections.

When an automobile slows down for a stop sign, you can't be sure it will actually STOP, but when that gate arm comes down, or is down, you know the car is not going to keep rolling through it. (Well, that's the idea anyway, and it works 99.999% of the time).

I use my golf cart a lot for transportation, and I appreciate the presence of the gates when they are up and functioning. When I come to a gate that is out of commission, for whatever reason, it takes a bit more time and eye contact between cart and automobile to negotiate the dance.

I suspect that as TV has grown, and distances have lengthened within the bounds of it, a higher percentage of trips are taken by automobile than was the case 20 years ago. My sense of things is that car drivers find the gates more of a nuisance, and are less appreciative of the service they provide, and hence, since more folks are driving cars now than 20 years ago, there is less of an understanding and appreciation for why they exist.

[dnobles]

Especially if the sun is hitting it just right

[bob47]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2258726]The gate arms do more than just create an illusion (although I doubt the developer and its sales team do little to dissuade potential buyers from believing in the illusion), that they create a visible and predictable break in traffic, in between each automobile, to facilitate golf cart crossings at those intersections.


True for entrance gates but not exit gates. Exit gates have a time delay and typically do not come down after every car when there is a line of cars passing through.

[Bilyclub]

I would hope the quarterly flower plantings would go before the gates in any cost cutting measures. At least they get some income from the gate strikers.

[Bilyclub]

If the actual total spent annually on these gates (we think of them as vanity icons so we villagers can impress family and guests that we live in a "private country club" community....LOL ! It would be interesting to tabulate and compare, any differences in accidents, etc. on the days when all gate arms are removed. For instance, sometimes for multiple days in a row due to hurricane threats. Are MORE people hit on the days there are no gate arms ? More golf carts hit ? More auto accidents ? Who knows, we may be able to save hundreds of thousands of dollars to just do away with the "illusion" of how exclusive it is here ? Is there a point to having traffic backed up to 466 just to turn onto Belvidere near the library or high school ? Might me worth studying, but think the idea has always been more to sell the illusion of a private community ?


The Belvedere Gate is about 1500 feet from 466. Is the gate really causing the backups or is it school drop-offs and pick-ups ? Can the problem be vehicles using Belvedere as a shortcut to Buena Vista ? That's where traffic studies come in.

[Laker14]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2258726]The gate arms do more than just create an illusion (although I doubt the developer and its sales team do little to dissuade potential buyers from believing in the illusion), that they create a visible and predictable break in traffic, in between each automobile, to facilitate golf cart crossings at those intersections.


True for entrance gates but not exit gates. Exit gates have a time delay and typically do not come down after every car when there is a line of cars passing through.

Coming north on the BV MMP, at the St. Charles gate, during the busy times traffic heading out the exit gates can get a tad backed up. While the gate arm may not come all the way down in between each car, it does slow and sometimes stop the traffic exiting, which makes a convenient opportunity for a nice soul to wave a few carts through before proceeding.
Yes, yes...I know, cars are not "supposed to" wave carts through, but when the automobile traffic is continuous, and the golf carts are backed up in a long line, it is not inappropriate for a car to break that rule and let a few carts go through. Otherwise we'd miss happy hour.

Im not sure what happened with that gate, but my guess is whoever designed that whole part of the development dropped the ball when calculating how much traffic that intersection would get, due to all of the homes that need to use it to get in and out.