The golf cart is king at The Villages, but ...

[Altavia]

https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/the-golf-cart-is-king-at-the-villages-but-the-grass-isnt-all-green/

The golf cart is king at The Villages, but the grass isn’t all green

Three weeks ago a story posted on Slate carried the subhead, Why golf carts—golf carts!—are a transportation mode of the future. It cited a Harvard Business School study from seven years ago that concluded a “souped-up golf cart” offered transportation’s “most transformative potential.”
“Indeed,” said the Slate story, “these puttering vehicles, most often associated with leisure and affluence, just might provide a pathway toward safe, affordable, and entertaining rides for the masses.”
The Villages, the massive Central Florida retirement community that uses golf carts as the main source of transportation for its 130,000-plus residents, has been on top of this trend for some time. In September of 2005, Villages residents strung together 3321 carts in what the Guinness World Records lists as the largest golf cart parade. Even then, that was a drop in the bucket compared to how many carts were in the Villages.

And how many are here now?
It’s impossible to tell. They don’t have to be licensed, so an accurate number is elusive. A story from last October in the developer-owned newspaper The Villages Daily Sun (the Villages developers also own an oldies radio station and a TV station) tried to come up with a number. It asked Christopher Laufersky, director of sales for The Villages Golf Cars, which boasts four dealer locations:

Let’s say that each occupied home in The Villages—69,529 as of Sept. 30—has at least one golf cart, with only a small percentage of the population not owning one, he said. Then consider that many residents actually own two golf carts per home. “It’s got to be somewhere between 70,000 to 80,000 golf carts,” which easily makes The Villages the world’s number one golf cart community, Laufersky said. “Our manufacturers who have relationships in other communities say there is nothing to this scale.”
Richard Brooks, of The Villages Discount Golf Cars (three locations), disagrees. “There has to be almost 100,000 golf cars here,” he said. “No question.”

Indeed, most everything you need on a daily basis—from groceries to doctors to movie theaters—can be accessed by the 100 miles of cart trails that pass through cart-only tunnels and over multiple major cart-only bridges that span the Florida Turnpike and U.S. Highway 441.

Debbie Swann
Three weeks ago a story posted on Slate carried the subhead, Why golf carts—golf carts!—are a transportation mode of the future. It cited a Harvard Business School study from seven years ago that concluded a “souped-up golf cart” offered transportation’s “most transformative potential.”
“Indeed,” said the Slate story, “these puttering vehicles, most often associated with leisure and affluence, just might provide a pathway toward safe, affordable, and entertaining rides for the masses.”

The Villages, the massive Central Florida retirement community that uses golf carts as the main source of transportation for its 130,000-plus residents, has been on top of this trend for some time. In September of 2005, Villages residents strung together 3321 carts in what the Guinness World Records lists as the largest golf cart parade. Even then, that was a drop in the bucket compared to how many carts were in the Villages.

Debbie Swann
And how many are here now?
It’s impossible to tell. They don’t have to be licensed, so an accurate number is elusive. A story from last October in the developer-owned newspaper The Villages Daily Sun (the Villages developers also own an oldies radio station and a TV station) tried to come up with a number. It asked Christopher Laufersky, director of sales for The Villages Golf Cars, which boasts four dealer locations:
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Let’s say that each occupied home in The Villages—69,529 as of Sept. 30—has at least one golf cart, with only a small percentage of the population not owning one, he said. Then consider that many residents actually own two golf carts per home. “It’s got to be somewhere between 70,000 to 80,000 golf carts,” which easily makes The Villages the world’s number one golf cart community, Laufersky said. “Our manufacturers who have relationships in other communities say there is nothing to this scale.”
Richard Brooks, of The Villages Discount Golf Cars (three locations), disagrees. “There has to be almost 100,000 golf cars here,” he said. “No question.”

Indeed, most everything you need on a daily basis—from groceries to doctors to movie theaters—can be accessed by the 100 miles of cart trails that pass through cart-only tunnels and over multiple major cart-only bridges that span the Florida Turnpike and U.S. Highway 441.

Steven Cole Smith
“There’s really no reason to own a car unless you need to go out of town,” said Rose Leary, a Boston resident who is staying with friends in The Villages while she shops for her own home. “They lent me one of their golf carts, and I’m having a ball riding all over the place. My car hasn’t moved since I got here.”

Golf carts have been part of The Villages since before it was formally founded in 1992. When the basic community started in the 1960s, it was essentially a group of trailer parks that featured free golf. There are 57 golf courses now.

The most recent U.S. census said in 2021 that The Villages was America’s fastest-growing community, and the number of carts has skyrocketed along with the population.

Regardless of the actual number of carts, The Villages has long been studied as a model community for the transportation future. The Villages stretches into two counties, and at 32 square miles, it is larger than Manhattan. On top of that, it has acquired thousands more acres into which it can expand.
The population is centered around 17 villages-within-The Villages, each a separate community (or “special purpose district, established pursuant to Florida State Statutes,” says a Villages website). Crime in The Villages, aside from domestic disputes and the occasional drunken bar fight, is minimal, though the community’s cart world isn’t entirely rosy. In 2017, for example, a golf cart chop shop was busted, thus explaining multiple cart thefts in the area.

The carts can be dangerous, too. A study by the Taylor & Francis Group “compiled information about golf cart crashes in The Villages between 2011 and 2019. During the observation period, a total of 875 golf cart-related accidents occurred, representing an average of 136 crashes, 65 hospitalizations and nine dead or disabled annually. Of all crashes, 48 percent resulted in hospitalization, severe trauma, or death. Of these, ejection occurred in 27 percent, hospitalization in 55 percent and death or disability in 15 percent of crashes,” said **************.com, reporting on the findings.
The study concluded that seat belts, which are not mandatory, could save lives. Nothing much is mandatory, it turns out; though some carts are outfitted with belts, turn signals, brake lights, satellite radio, and even rear-view cameras. Lights are required if you drive carts at night. Insurance on carts is available, but again, optional.

Two laws are on the books. One is that you can’t drive a cart unless you are at minimum 14 years old, the importance of which was underscored by a recent crash where a woman let her nine-year-old granddaughter drive. The cart rolled over, and the grandmother was ejected and hospitalized.
The other law is that carts cannot exceed 20 mph, enforced by an engine governor to prevent faster speeds. No one advertises it—and there are indeed dozens of cart-related ads in The Villages Daily Sun—but it seems everybody knows someone who is mechanically inclined and willing to bypass the governor. With that change, perhaps plus some mild engine work, different gearing, and bigger tires, there are reportedly carts here that can top 40 mph. And people do get tickets for speeding, but it’s rare.

The Villages has also seen arrests for carting while intoxicated, and you can lose your driver’s license for that. “Even seniors who have no business driving anymore zip around like teenage joy riders, say residents. Crashes are not uncommon, and visitors are warned to watch out for bad drivers—and drunk ones,” said the New York Times in one of its multiple stories about The Villages and its golf carts.

While most of the carts are the typical ones you see on a golf course, a surprising number of Villagers look for personalization, often ending up at Village Streetrods, where general manager Brandt Bell has a showroom full of new and used carts that resemble hot rods. Dennis Williams owns a Streetrod cart, purple with flames. “It’s something different,” he said. “I like it.” Another advantage of the Streetrod is that most have a “frunk” in the front, good for carrying home groceries from the seven Publix grocery stores in The Villages. Prices average about $25,000 for a new Streetrod.

Williams’ cart is electric, but most in the community are gasoline-powered. “Ninety percent of what I sell is gas-powered,” Bell said. “The range is so much better.” The fuel of choice is 90-octane ethanol-free gasoline, because ethanol is tough on small engines, especially if you keep your cart frequently parked. There are carts with new lithium-ion batteries, though, that have increased the range per charge.
Rose Leary, the future Villages resident, started her (gasoline-powered) cart, and motored away, possibly part of the transportation future. “If we’re ready for it, a better future of mobility is right there waiting for us,” said Slate. “You can catch a glimpse at your local golf course.”

If that future does indeed arrive, we’d best take a real long look at The Villages.

[margaretmattson]

If they are going to look at the Villages for insight, I would question three things in this article.

1.Safety? Lol- Where does one begin?
2.Affordable? Some cost the same as a small car and many even more.
3.Entertaining? Personally, I can think of better things to do with my time than drive in a putt-putt cart whose maximum speed is 20 mph.

Keep the golf carts where they belong-
On the golf course! Hence the name, GOLF cart. I won't begrudge if you use one occasionally to run errands, but always? NO!

[thelegges]

If they are going to look at the Villages for insight, I would question three things in this article.

1.Safety? Lol- Where does one begin?
2.Affordable? Some cost the same as a small car and many even more.
3.Entertaining? Personally, I can think of better things to do with my time than drive in a putt-putt cart whose maximum speed is 20 mph.

Keep the golf carts where they belong-
On the golf course! Hence the name, GOLF cart. I won't begrudge if you use one occasionally to run errands, but always? NO!

There are many older residents who move to TV, not for the entertainment, not for golf, but for the availability of having golf cart transport. They no longer own a car, and use their cart to go to appointments, grocery, and visit friends and relatives.

So your golf course only theory doesn’t pan out for how many use their cart. Our aunts, and parents moved here around “07”, no car, just a 4 seat cart. They choose not to have the expense of car maintenance, and insurance, and never had issues. They took day trips with travel companies, cruised, and if they need a car, just rented. When didn’t keep a car here until 2019, we flew in used only our cart, and worked very well for us

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I prefer my golf cart except when it's rainy, or if I need to drive a longer distance with limited time constraints. One really NICE days, I'll drive from my house in the Historic Section to Odell for a club I'm in, but if it's muggy, or looks like it'll rain, or very windy or cold, or if I'm running late, I'll take the car.

I actually enjoy the slower pace of the cart, and the sensation of being "outside" when I'm driving it. Three years living here and I still get a mini-thrill driving over the golf cart bridge across 441.

[retiredguy123]

I don't own a golf cart because I would need to share the road with cars, SUVs, trucks, and large commercial vehicles. To me, this presents a dangerous situation. Also, they are too slow.

[Bill14564]

If they are going to look at the Villages for insight, I would question three things in this article.

1.Safety? Lol- Where does one begin?
2.Affordable? Some cost the same as a small car and many even more.
3.Entertaining? Personally, I can think of better things to do with my time than drive in a putt-putt cart whose maximum speed is 20 mph.

Keep the golf carts where they belong-
On the golf course! Hence the name, GOLF cart. I won't begrudge if you use one occasionally to run errands, but always? NO!

If I can reach it by cart then that's what I'll drive. My wife too, that's why we own two carts.

The other day, during the heavy downpour, we took the car. Very atypical.

[margaretmattson]

There are many older residents who move to TV, not for the entertainment, not for golf, but for the availability of having golf cart transport. They no longer own a car, and use their cart to go to appointments, grocery, and visit friends and relatives.

So your golf course only theory doesn’t pan out for how many use their cart. Our aunts, and parents moved here around “07”, no car, just a 4 seat cart. They choose not to have the expense of car maintenance, and insurance, and never had issues. They took day trips with travel companies, cruised, and if they need a car, just rented. When didn’t keep a car here until 2019, we flew in used only our cart, and worked very well for us I understand and appreciate golf carts are a necessity for some. The article talks about making golf carts the MASS TRANSPORTATION of the future. That is what I responded to.

[Michael G.]

How about a Hy-bred, the best of both worlds and a lot of saver then golf carts.
Runs on batteries for limited miles, has AC, and you're storing one vehicle.

[ThirdOfFive]

I don't own a golf cart because I would need to share the road with cars, SUVs, trucks, and large commercial vehicles. To me, this presents a dangerous situation. Also, they are too slow.
Agreed about the dangerous situation. But even on the MMPs there are a lot of dangerous situations caused by cart drivers who are ignorant of how carts handle, or of the law, or both.

In my opinion people who may have driven cars all their lives but are suddenly driving a cart in an environment with a whole lot of other carts are suddenly playing a game that they think they're familiar with, but aren't. Golf carts are NOT cars and do not handle like one. For one thing golf carts have a high CG and a narrow (and short) wheelbase. It doesn't take much to roll one: a couple of seconds worth of inattention or hitting a turn at too high a speed can upend you even if another cart, or person, is not involved. Another thing is that those one-cylinder four cycle engines don't accelerate well. Many times we've seen one cart try to pass another, where the cart being passed is going only slightly slower than the passer, and because of the slow acceleration and/or top speed you end up with two carts abreast for far too long. I've had to take the grass more than once to avoid two carts bearing down on me.

Second is the ignorance of the laws and rules regarding cart use. Snowbird season is coming and it is a guarantee that TV will be flooded with people who THINK they know how to operate a cart within the law, but don't. We'll see it here in TOTV. We always do; folks expounding on their version of how carts must be operated that very often are not just advertisements for their ignorance but if engaged in, endanger not only them but others as well.

Remedies? Why not, when the snowbirds pick up their gate cards or IDs, mandate a short video on how to operate a cart in the Villages environs? There are other things that could be done too, but won't be.

[Fredster]

Agreed about the dangerous situation. But even on the MMPs there are a lot of dangerous situations caused by cart drivers who are ignorant of how carts handle, or of the law, or both.


On our roads the same can be said about
many auto drivers!

[retiredguy123]

On our roads the same can be said about
many auto drivers!
I agree, but cars are larger and heavier, and they are equipped with thousands of dollars worth of mandated safety features.

[DAVES]

Endlessly the same topic. Might be useful to create a changing game that you must get a minimum score to be able to run a golf cart in the villages.

Terms of drivers, we notice the fools not the safe drivers. Accidents is truly a false term. Since, almost all accidents are avoidable, an accident is HEY what you did CAUSED an issue.

[Topspinmo]

IMO Villages not good example cause it is golf cart community. Naturally going to be high number of golf carts where you have specific paths and rules on road for them. As far as safety goes, that depends on operators. All years I been in villages I still see golf cart drivers trying to turn left from golf cart diamond lanes. Disaster waiting to catch up with them. IMO golf cart on roads/path provided lot safer than bicycles on road. But, again it’s the operators.

[Topspinmo]

I agree, but cars are larger and heavier, and they are equipped with thousands of dollars worth of mandated safety features.

Golf cart are not allow on road over 25 MPH. Not like they’re going down I75 with hundred years of vehicle accidents naturally safety has improved.

IMO the problem in most instances are inpatient vehicle drivers speeding, cutting off golf cart in diamond lanes, and driving off the back bumper of golf cart. Go head or give room.

[Topspinmo]

Agreed about the dangerous situation. But even on the MMPs there are a lot of dangerous situations caused by cart drivers who are ignorant of how carts handle, or of the law, or both.

In my opinion people who may have driven cars all their lives but are suddenly driving a cart in an environment with a whole lot of other carts are suddenly playing a game that they think they're familiar with, but aren't. Golf carts are NOT cars and do not handle like one. For one thing golf carts have a high CG and a narrow (and short) wheelbase. It doesn't take much to roll one: a couple of seconds worth of inattention or hitting a turn at too high a speed can upend you even if another cart, or person, is not involved. Another thing is that those one-cylinder four cycle engines don't accelerate well. Many times we've seen one cart try to pass another, where the cart being passed is going only slightly slower than the passer, and because of the slow acceleration and/or top speed you end up with two carts abreast for far too long. I've had to take the grass more than once to avoid two carts bearing down on me.

Second is the ignorance of the laws and rules regarding cart use. Snowbird season is coming and it is a guarantee that TV will be flooded with people who THINK they know how to operate a cart within the law, but don't. We'll see it here in TOTV. We always do; folks expounding on their version of how carts must be operated that very often are not just advertisements for their ignorance but if engaged in, endanger not only them but others as well.

Remedies? Why not, when the snowbirds pick up their gate cards or IDs, mandate a short video on how to operate a cart in the Villages environs? There are other things that could be done too, but won't be.

Might as well get use to idea of golf carts in golf cart community. It’s only going to get worse as population increases.

[VApeople]

I do not think golf carts are the 'king' in The Villages.

We have been here 7 years and own two nice cars but no golf cart. We can go anywhere we want in our cars and every time we have to cross an MMP we have the right-of-way.

Every so often, we sense that a person on the MMP thinks they have the right-of-way, so we honk at them and keep honking until we are well past them. We have never hit a golf cart, at least so far.

[Bilyclub]

I do not think golf carts are the 'king' in The Villages.

We have been here 7 years and own two nice cars but no golf cart. We can go anywhere we want in our cars and every time we have to cross an MMP we have the right-of-way.

Every so often, we sense that a person on the MMP thinks they have the right-of-way, so we honk at them and keep honking until we are well past them. We have never hit a golf cart, at least so far.

Not entirely true. If the gate is missing and a stop sign is displayed in the gate lane that would make it a 3 or 4 way stop intersection.

[Altavia]

Golf cart are not allow on road over 25 MPH. Not like they’re going down I75 with hundred years of vehicle accidents naturally safety has improved.

IMO the problem in most instances are inpatient vehicle drivers speeding, cutting off golf cart in diamond lanes, and driving off the back bumper of golf cart. Go head or give room.

"Golf carts may be operated on roadways that are designated for golf carts with a posted speed limit of 30 mph or less."

Low Speed Vehicles - Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/#:~:text=Golf%20carts%20are%20defined%20in,roadway s%20that%20are%20designated%20for)

[Altavia]

Not entirely true. If the gate is missing and a stop sign is displayed in the gate lane that would make it a 3 or 4 way stop intersection.

Probably would not make much difference but I've wondered why stop signs are not installed at the gates?

[Fltpkr]

I do not think golf carts are the 'king' in The Villages.

We have been here 7 years and own two nice cars but no golf cart. We can go anywhere we want in our cars and every time we have to cross an MMP we have the right-of-way.

Every so often, we sense that a person on the MMP thinks they have the right-of-way, so we honk at them and keep honking until we are well past them. We have never hit a golf cart, at least so far.

I generally agree. We have a newer cart that we use from time to time, but not daily. Unless we just want to go for a ride on a nice day or evening or have some other good reason, it is a waste of time (in my view) for any distant drives. I value my time, and do not wish to spend it driving a golf cart. Also, I do not think the MM paths are necessarily safer than the streets. With competing traffic on foot, bike, electric bike, other carts that are often oblivious to speed limits, and drivers who are often as bad as any on the streets, the MM paths can be treacherous to drive on.

[JGibson]

Now let us cross 466/441 at the traffic light and drive on Rolling Acres Rd.

[golfing eagles]

Now let us cross 466/441 at the traffic light and drive on Rolling Acres Rd.

Just which traffic light on 466 would you allow a cart crossing??? Morse??? BV????Belvedere???? Oh, wait, there are tunnels at each of those.

Cross 441? OK, there's only one crossing via the bridge, but you can get everywhere on that side from there.

Drive ON Rolling Acres? Why??

Now, narrow it down to finding some way to cross Rolling Acres to get to the additional shopping areas and you're talking.

[coconutmama]

I prefer my golf cart except when it's rainy, or if I need to drive a longer distance with limited time constraints. One really NICE days, I'll drive from my house in the Historic Section to Odell for a club I'm in, but if it's muggy, or looks like it'll rain, or very windy or cold, or if I'm running late, I'll take the car.

I actually enjoy the slower pace of the cart, and the sensation of being "outside" when I'm driving it. Three years living here and I still get a mini-thrill driving over the golf cart bridge across 441.

Totally agree. Love the golf cart experience even after 11 years of owning them in The Villages.

Our current SUV has about 20,000 miles on it. Our current golf cart about 13,000 miles on it. Both 2019s. Saving a lot of miles off our SUV & having fun doing it. One of the main reasons for living here. We enjoy shopping & nearby dr appointments by cart.

Yes, a lot of dangerous drivers here for both modes of transportation. “Ya can’t fix stupid”, no matter what one drives.

[retiredguy123]

Not entirely true. If the gate is missing and a stop sign is displayed in the gate lane that would make it a 3 or 4 way stop intersection.
I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.

[Topspinmo]

I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.


If they can put speed bump at tunnel entry when you have to make 90 degree turn then big speed bumps should be at gate entry. Majority don’t even slow down when gate is down.

[DonH57]

Probably would not make much difference but I've wondered why stop signs are not installed at the gates?

Mainly because of the requirement of Florida's department of transportation but if they were people would blow thru them like they do where gate arms are missing or coming off the side streets!:laugh:

[golfing eagles]

I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.

I realize this is confusing, but golf carts don't ALWAYS have to yield the right of way (just most of the time). When on a roadway where they are permitted, a golf cart is considered a vehicle under the law (so is a bicycle). So, let's just move this away from a gate crossing and into a residential neighborhood. A golf cart arrives at a 4 way stop sign intersection 2 seconds before a car----the golf cart has the right of way, NOT the car. Same is true of a bicycle. Another example----a golf cart is in the bike and cart lane approaching a merge point and has a 150 foot lead on a car----the cart may merge---he is NOT cutting off the car and is NOT required to yield. In fact, most signs in the merge zone require cars to slow to 20, which if obeyed would never allow a car to close the distance on a cart going 20. Of course we all know this is not what happens---most of the time the car driver speeds up to 40 to beat the cart to the merge (Usually the same driver that gives a single finger to a car driver that does the same thing to him when HE is the one in the cart:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Now, back to the gate crossing. WHEN there is a stop sign for cars, this is now a 4 way stop and the vehicle arriving first (or furthest right in the case of a tie) has the right of way (in theory)---Also something that we all know doesn't happen. Adding to the confusion is the fact that the stop sign for cars is only occasionally present. I suppose if they put up permanent stop signs at all gates it would be clear (maybe). The worst are those gate crossings where the visibility of oncoming cars is blocked by shrubbery or the gate house and the gate is removed. Inch forward carefully, since even if there is a stop sign and even if you have the right of way, you might end up being dead right.

[Stu4206]

[QUOTE= Three years living here and I still get a mini-thrill driving over the golf cart bridge across 441.[/QUOTE]

Do you put your hands in the air as you go over? I do.

[golfing eagles]

Do you put your hands in the air as you go over? I do.

Do you scream as well????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[djlnc]

I wonder how bad emissions are from the carts. We might see new requirements slapped on them like most gas powered machines, bumping the cost up even more.

[Bilyclub]

[QUOTE=retiredguy123;2255352]I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.[/QUOTE


You're basic premise is wrong. Golf carts have a the same r-o-w as the other vehicles on the road. Delmar and Avenida Central which has a 4 way stop. If a golf cart stops first they have the right of way. If you truly believe what you are saying you are a menace on the roads.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

Aren't these "Golf Carts of the Future" available today under the name Smart Car? Not exactly a "smart" option on an interstate, IMO. However, there are many foreign cities that have restricted zones in the city center where only electric (or low emission) vehicles are permitted. I find these fume free locations delightful to spend time in.

[Topspinmo]

Do you put your hands in the air as you go over? I do.

No, it’s too narrow , I keep my hands on wheel.

[Bill14564]

I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.


You're basic premise is wrong. Golf carts have a the same r-o-w as the other vehicles on the road. Delmar and Avenida Central which has a 4 way stop. If a golf cart stops first they have the right of way. If you truly believe what you are saying you are a menace on the roads.

Menace on the roads? That may be a wee bit of exaggeration, no?

Retiredguy was referring to golf cart crossings near neighborhood entrance gates. At these crossings the golf carts do not have the right of way, the automotive traffic does. As mentioned in another post, placing a stop sign for automotive traffic at these crossings could give the appearance of a three-way stop (there is no oncoming traffic). The driver of the automobile might believe the golf cart that was already at the intersection has the right of way though that is not normally the case.

I do believe something needs to be present when the gates are down. There needs to be some way to control the speed and intensity of automotive traffic to make the crossing safer for carts, bikes, and pedestrians when the gates are not present. A temporary stop sign, while often ignored and potentially confusing, is better than nothing.

While traveling on a roadway, either in the lane or in the separated golf cart lane, the golf cart is subject to the same rules the automobiles are. At a four-way stop, if the golf cart stops first then the golf cart has the right of way.

[OhioBuckeye]

Your comment is way, way to long to read a simple answer would do. Like 4 yrs. ago there were 70,000 carts in TV!

[golfing eagles]

Menace on the roads? That may be a wee bit of exaggeration, no?

Retiredguy was referring to golf cart crossings near neighborhood entrance gates. At these crossings the golf carts do not have the right of way, the automotive traffic does. As mentioned in another post, placing a stop sign for automotive traffic at these crossings could give the appearance of a three-way stop (there is no oncoming traffic). The driver of the automobile might believe the golf cart that was already at the intersection has the right of way though that is not normally the case.

I do believe something needs to be present when the gates are down. There needs to be some way to control the speed and intensity of automotive traffic to make the crossing safer for carts, bikes, and pedestrians when the gates are not present. A temporary stop sign, while often ignored and potentially confusing, is better than nothing.

While traveling on a roadway, either in the lane or in the separated golf cart lane, the golf cart is subject to the same rules the automobiles are. At a four-way stop, if the golf cart stops first then the golf cart has the right of way.

Is it your assertion that the traffic code treats a 4 way stop at a gate crossing differently than any other 4 way stop???? If so, please cite the statute.

[OhioBuckeye]

They problem I have with that is when I had our golf cart a 2012 for 5 yrs.I put 25,500 miles on it & only put 5,000 miles in 5 yrs. on our car & used the fraction of gas in our car. But that’s your business what you drive. I’m just saying most of The Villiagers have out voted you. I still drive my car that I had 4 yrs. ago when we lived in TV. I’m guessing you already wore out you car & stating on your 2nd or 3rd car! Just saying but it your opinion!

[Bill14564]

Is it your assertion that the traffic code treats a 4 way stop at a gate crossing differently than any other 4 way stop???? If so, please cite the statute.

I believe traffic code deals with four-way stops where two roadways intersect. In the case of the the MMP crossings, one of those intersecting is not a roadway.

The MMPs are also not crosswalks, or at least the guidance we have been given (drivers should not stop and signal pedestrians to proceed) do not treat them as crosswalks.

Except for railroad crossings and movable bridges, gates are rarely installed on public roadways.

I wouldn't be surprised if traffic code did not cover this situation at all.

[vintageogauge]

Most golf cars do not have AC, I bought a new Yamaha when we moved here, I don't golf, didn't find riding around in the heat very comfortable, had several near accidents that would not have been my fault, got rid of it and don't miss it at all. I would much prefer to be in a car with AC to go where ever I feel like going. For golf, there are rentals available.

[golfing eagles]

I believe traffic code deals with four-way stops where two roadways intersect. In the case of the the MMP crossings, one of those intersecting is not a roadway.

The MMPs are also not crosswalks, or at least the guidance we have been given (drivers should not stop and signal pedestrians to proceed) do not treat them as crosswalks.

Except for railroad crossings and movable bridges, gates are rarely installed on public roadways.

I wouldn't be surprised if traffic code did not cover this situation at all.

Point made. So, consider this scenario: An exit from a parking lot (NOT a roadway) has a stop sign, but so does the road. Can the car on the road just go ahead and assume he has the right of way?????

[djlnc]

(drivers should not stop and signal pedestrians to proceed)

Every once in a while, you'll see someone waving on someone who does not have the right of way. This could be at a gate entrance when the cart has a stop sign and the car doesn't and the car waves the cart ahead, or at an intersection where opposing cars are stopped, one car signals for a left turn and the oncoming driver waves them ahead.

This is all very neighborly, but puts the driver who does not have the right of way in a precarious legal position if something happens. (And it gets drivers into a bad habit of proceeding when they don't have the right of way.)

[golfing eagles]

I believe traffic code deals with four-way stops where two roadways intersect. In the case of the the MMP crossings, one of those intersecting is not a roadway.

The MMPs are also not crosswalks, or at least the guidance we have been given (drivers should not stop and signal pedestrians to proceed) do not treat them as crosswalks.

Except for railroad crossings and movable bridges, gates are rarely installed on public roadways.

I wouldn't be surprised if traffic code did not cover this situation at all.

I think we both have speculated and opinionated enough, so here are THE FACTS, from the Florida Statutes:

First: definition of a "highway:

(53) STREET OR HIGHWAY.—
(a) The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;
(b) The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

So, by legal definition by the State of Florida, a MMP IS a "highway" since it is public and carries "vehicular traffic"(carts, cycles, even scooters)

Next, the definition of an intersection:

17) INTERSECTION.—
(a) The area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curblines; or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways which join one another at, or approximately at, right angles; or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict.

So, again by definition by the State of Florida, the meeting of an MMP and the "car" road, even at a gate crossing is an intersection.

So finally, :

(b) At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

So in conclusion, again, according to THE LAW, an MMP is a "highway", where it crosses at a gate is an "intersection" and the first to arrive, EVEN IF A GOLF CART OR BICYCLE, has the right of way. PERIOD.

[Bill14564]

Point made. So, consider this scenario: An exit from a parking lot (NOT a roadway) has a stop sign, but so does the road. Can the car on the road just go ahead and assume he has the right of way?????

The list of priorities that I try to follow:
1. Don't kill anyone
2. Don't hit anyone
3. Don't hit anything
4. Don't put myself in the position of getting hit
5. Follow the law as best I understand it
6. Be predictable

I haven't seen that configuration. If I did, I would look for the "3-way" text on my stop sign or the presence of an octagonal stop sign in the parking lot. If I saw either of those I would treat it as an intersection of roads. Basically, I would be trying to exercise 3-6 above.

The difference with the MMP is there is no (or only very few) octagonal stop signs on the MMPs. I don't see the signs and I recognize what I am about to cross is not a roadway so I assume the non-automotive traffic must yield to traffic on the roadway.

I guess I use the gates as a physical implementation of a stop light. When they are down I stop, when they are up I go, and when I go I am careful to exercise 3 and 4 regardless of 5.

[djlnc]

So in conclusion, again, according to THE LAW, an MMP is a "highway", where it crosses at a gate is an "intersection" and the first to arrive, EVEN IF A GOLF CART OR BICYCLE, has the right of way. PERIOD.

But the gate is generally not a 4 way stop, so that does not apply.

[Bill14564]

I think we both have speculated and opinionated enough, so here are THE FACTS, from the Florida Statutes:

First: definition of a "highway:

(53) STREET OR HIGHWAY.—
(a) The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;
(b) The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

So, by legal definition by the State of Florida, a MMP IS a "highway" since it is public and carries "vehicular traffic"(carts, cycles, even scooters)

Next, the definition of an intersection:

17) INTERSECTION.—
(a) The area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curblines; or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways which join one another at, or approximately at, right angles; or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict.

So, again by definition by the State of Florida, the meeting of an MMP and the "car" road, even at a gate crossing is an intersection.

So finally, :

(b) At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

So in conclusion, again, according to THE LAW, an MMP is a "highway", where it crosses at a gate is an "intersection" and the first to arrive, EVEN IF A GOLF CART OR BICYCLE, has the right of way. PERIOD.

If you have your Florida statutes open, look up the required marking for indicating that vehicular traffic must stop. I have always been told it is an octagonal sign with red background....... If I don't see one of those on the MMP then I don't legally have to stop? (EDIT: The MMP has octagonal stop signs at all the gate crossings I came to today.)

We're spending a lot of time discussing a situation that should happen infrequently. Whatever we prove is right or wrong matters very little because a majority of Villagers are going to make up their own rules anyway.

[golfing eagles]

If you have your Florida statutes open, look up the required marking for indicating that vehicular traffic must stop. I have always been told it is an octagonal sign with red background....... If I don't see one of those on the MMP then I don't legally have to stop?

We're spending a lot of time discussing a situation that should happen infrequently. Whatever we prove is right or wrong matters very little because a majority of Villagers are going to make up their own rules anyway.

Correct. I thought we were only debating the rare situation where there is that big red octagonal sign on the road because a gate is not present. I would agree that the gate itself does not qualify as an official traffic control device( although I do recommend stopping for it :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

That being said, the academic discussion does very little good. In my experience, many drivers actually speed up when a gate has been removed, stop sign notwithstanding

[Altavia]

Every once in a while, you'll see someone waving on someone who does not have the right of way. This could be at a gate entrance when the cart has a stop sign and the car doesn't and the car waves the cart ahead, or at an intersection where opposing cars are stopped, one car signals for a left turn and the oncoming driver waves them ahead.

This is all very neighborly, but puts the driver who does not have the right of way in a precarious legal position if something happens. (And it gets drivers into a bad habit of proceeding when they don't have the right of way.)

I don't like being waved through either. They risk being rear ended by someone not paying attention.

So I try to slow down or stop a few cart lengths away from the crossing if I see a car coming to encourage them not to stop before reaching the gate.

[Chitown]

I’m sorry I ever bought my golf cart. It was a waist of $15,000. It takes me 25 minutes by golf cart to get to Brownwood, 7 minutes by car, 1 hour to get to Lake Sumter by golf cart, 15 minutes by car, 1 1/2 hours by golf cart to Spanish Springs, 1/2 hour by car. I drive it every 2 weeks just to keep the battery from Dying. I’m active in The Villages but what a waste of money the golf cart purchase was.

[retiredguy123]

Golf cart are not allow on road over 25 MPH. Not like they’re going down I75 with hundred years of vehicle accidents naturally safety has improved.

IMO the problem in most instances are inpatient vehicle drivers speeding, cutting off golf cart in diamond lanes, and driving off the back bumper of golf cart. Go head or give room.
Carts are allowed on Moyer Loop where the speed limit is 30 mph, but most vehicles are going 35 to 45.

[Vermilion Villager]

I’m sorry I ever bought my golf cart. It was a waist of $15,000. It takes me 25 minutes by golf cart to get to Brownwood, 7 minutes by car, 1 hour to get to Lake Sumter by golf cart, 15 minutes by car, 1 1/2 hours by golf cart to Spanish Springs, 1/2 hour by car. I drive it every 2 weeks just to keep the battery from Dying. I’m active in The Villages but what a waste of money the golf cart purchase was.
Good Lord....where do you live????

[jimjamuser]

If they are going to look at the Villages for insight, I would question three things in this article.

1.Safety? Lol- Where does one begin?
2.Affordable? Some cost the same as a small car and many even more.
3.Entertaining? Personally, I can think of better things to do with my time than drive in a putt-putt cart whose maximum speed is 20 mph.

Keep the golf carts where they belong-
On the golf course! Hence the name, GOLF cart. I won't begrudge if you use one occasionally to run errands, but always? NO!
I absolutely agree with you. My wife and I have been here for 15 years and have never needed a golf cart. For one thing.......I don't particularly like golf and prefer more ACTIVE sports where you actually sweat on both a hot or cool day. We have had basically 2 cars and at one time a moped and also a 250 cc motor scooter and various bicycles to get around on. Lately, we have gotten an E-bike. When we used the scooters and bikes, it was to go about a maximum of 15 blocks one way. Typically, we stayed in our village and avoided crossing large roads with high traffic. We relied on cars to get around to other areas and Villages within The Villages for work, sports, movies, and shopping.
.........The problems with golf carts are that they are slow, some older gas ones smell, the gas ones pollute, they vibrate, they are less safe than an automobile, and they are loud. For some reason, the gas carts have terrible muffler systems. The NEWEST Yamahas (quiet tech) are actually about as quiet as most cars. Many other and older makes of golf carts are noisier than most automobiles. Also, I agree that golf carts cost about as much as a new or 1-year-old smaller car. Insurance for an automobile is NOT so costly that it would make someone pick a golf cart over an automobile.
........That being said, my wife's macular degeneration is going to force her to give up driving a car and she will be able to drive only a golf car within about one more year. We are planning to get an Electric golf cart because it is better for the environment and the center of gravity of the vehicle will be lower - this improves both acceleration and braking. We will NOT want it to go above 20 MPH and we will NOT be raising the center of gravity with bigger wheels or any of those childish stunts.
.........Also, I am amazed that the powers that be in the Villages allow (not enforce) golf cart speeds commonly into the 30 MPH range. Pull drivers over (you can hear that the engines rev louder) and give them SERIOUS TICKETS and the problem will go away. Having golf carts with different potential top speeds is self-defeating for safety and dangerously STUPID! Does the management of the Villages OWE a better standard of enforcement to the ordinary residents of the Villages that LOOK UP TO THEM FOR SAFETY AND STANDARDIZATION!!!!!!


........

[retiredguy123]

[QUOTE=retiredguy123;2255352]I don't think most people would interpret it that way. The only cross traffic is golf carts and other vehicles always have the right-of-way. Are you saying that when they have a stop sign on the ground at the gate, that the golf cart has the right-of-way when they got there first? Personally, I don't think they should ever install stop signs at the gates. Too confusing.[/QUOTE


You're basic premise is wrong. Golf carts have a the same r-o-w as the other vehicles on the road. Delmar and Avenida Central which has a 4 way stop. If a golf cart stops first they have the right of way. If you truly believe what you are saying you are a menace on the roads.
I was referring to the gates at the entrance to a vilIage, where the only cross traffic is golf carts. I am not really familiar with other gates that don't have golf carts crossing behind the gate.

[merrymini]

Really, you expect me to read 17 paragraphs about golf carts?

[Chitown]

Good Lord....where do you live????
I live Accross the street fro Everglades Rec Center and Magnolia Plaza in the village of Linden

[jimjamuser]

I prefer my golf cart except when it's rainy, or if I need to drive a longer distance with limited time constraints. One really NICE days, I'll drive from my house in the Historic Section to Odell for a club I'm in, but if it's muggy, or looks like it'll rain, or very windy or cold, or if I'm running late, I'll take the car.

I actually enjoy the slower pace of the cart, and the sensation of being "outside" when I'm driving it. Three years living here and I still get a mini-thrill driving over the golf cart bridge across 441.
One advantage of driving a golf cart is the same as a motorcycle, bicycle, roller skates, and skateboard.........the driver / rider feels more in tune with the environment. In a car or truck, you are surrounded by a large protection of steel and you are going faster, so the driver / rider has MORE SEPARATION from environmental factors like wind, rain, sun, pedestrians, birds, butterflies, insects, dogs, smells, and sounds. Since you are moving slower in the non-automobiles, you can slow your brain down better and get into a more meditative state than a fast-moving car.
....You take a car or truck to get somewhere quickly or go a long distance through an environment. You take a bicycle or rollerskates to get some exercise and ENJOY the environment.
.........Driving in a golf cart is somewhere in between those 2.
.........Of course, it is possible to enjoy driving in a car - you just take in less details about the environment.

[retiredguy123]

One advantage of driving a golf cart is the same as a motorcycle, bicycle, roller skates, and skateboard.........the driver / rider feels more in tune with the environment. In a car or truck, you are surrounded by a large protection of steel and you are going faster, so the driver / rider has MORE SEPARATION from environmental factors like wind, rain, sun, pedestrians, birds, butterflies, insects, dogs, smells, and sounds. Since you are moving slower in the non-automobiles, you can slow your brain down better and get into a more meditative state than a fast-moving car.
....You take a car or truck to get somewhere quickly or go a long distance through an environment. You take a bicycle or rollerskates to get some exercise and ENJOY the environment.
.........Driving in a golf cart is somewhere in between those 2.
.........Of course, it is possible to enjoy driving in a car - you just take in less details about the environment.
LOL. I don't need to be in tune with the environment. I just want to get from Point A to Point B, quickly and safely. But, I do enjoy a smooth, air conditioned ride.

[NavyVet]

When we first moved to TV in 2003, driving a golf cart was fun. With in a year, the novelty wore off and I realized I don't enjoy it at all. Too freakin' hot, uncomfortable, felt like driving a car with all the windows down (which I also hate), not feeling safe, and takes too long to get anywhere with all the convoluted paths and tunnels. If I was alone, I would not own one. Give me a nice safe SUV with A/C any day!

[jimjamuser]

I understand and appreciate golf carts are a necessity for some. The article talks about making golf carts the MASS TRANSPORTATION of the future. That is what I responded to.
If a super modern city could be designed with many one-way roads and every once and awhile a cross street with an elevated bridge, then theoretically a small 3 or 4 wheel vehicle that went 40MPH and did NOT have to stop for red lights could get around a city faster than a standard vehicle (like today's car or truck). And it could have a small motor either electrical or the equivalent of about 30 HP gasoline engine. Throw in some crash avoidance safety measures and MAYBE a golf cart sized vehicle COULD BE the vehicle of the FUTURE?

[Bill14564]

I’m sorry I ever bought my golf cart. It was a waist of $15,000. It takes me 25 minutes by golf cart to get to Brownwood, 7 minutes by car, 1 hour to get to Lake Sumter by golf cart, 15 minutes by car, 1 1/2 hours by golf cart to Spanish Springs, 1/2 hour by car. I drive it every 2 weeks just to keep the battery from Dying. I’m active in The Villages but what a waste of money the golf cart purchase was.

I live Accross the street fro Everglades Rec Center and Magnolia Plaza in the village of Linden

Except for some odd situations, anyplace you go will be faster by car. If that is the most important factor for you then maybe a golf cart isn't useful.

I'm about 25 to LSL. I consider LSL to be fairly close and go there frequently. Pretty much equivalent to your trip to Brownood. It takes me much longer to get to Edna's, Fenney, Sawgrass, and Eastport (when it finally opens). Those are the "close" destinations for someone who lives south of the turnpike.

I go to meetings/activities at Seabreeze, Colony, Eisenhower, and Rohan. I also go to activities at Fenney, Everglades, Aviary, Homestead, and Okahumpka. I imagine our drive times are similar, just reversed for the two sets.

A golf cart isn't for everyone. I enjoy the ride, have no need to get anywhere that much faster, and like to think about the money I'm saving on gas. Others don't consider the savings to be that much and don't enjoy the journey. To each his own.

[tophcfa]

I hate golf carts, especially gas ones. That’s why we own three of them and almost never drive a car when at our Villages home. Sometimes I take the car out for a quick spin, just to circulate some fresh gas through the fuel delivery system, when it hasn’t been started for four or five weeks.

[jimjamuser]

Agreed about the dangerous situation. But even on the MMPs there are a lot of dangerous situations caused by cart drivers who are ignorant of how carts handle, or of the law, or both.

In my opinion people who may have driven cars all their lives but are suddenly driving a cart in an environment with a whole lot of other carts are suddenly playing a game that they think they're familiar with, but aren't. Golf carts are NOT cars and do not handle like one. For one thing golf carts have a high CG and a narrow (and short) wheelbase. It doesn't take much to roll one: a couple of seconds worth of inattention or hitting a turn at too high a speed can upend you even if another cart, or person, is not involved. Another thing is that those one-cylinder four cycle engines don't accelerate well. Many times we've seen one cart try to pass another, where the cart being passed is going only slightly slower than the passer, and because of the slow acceleration and/or top speed you end up with two carts abreast for far too long. I've had to take the grass more than once to avoid two carts bearing down on me.

Second is the ignorance of the laws and rules regarding cart use. Snowbird season is coming and it is a guarantee that TV will be flooded with people who THINK they know how to operate a cart within the law, but don't. We'll see it here in TOTV. We always do; folks expounding on their version of how carts must be operated that very often are not just advertisements for their ignorance but if engaged in, endanger not only them but others as well.

Remedies? Why not, when the snowbirds pick up their gate cards or IDs, mandate a short video on how to operate a cart in the Villages environs? There are other things that could be done too, but won't be.
I agree in the 2nd paragraph about the high center of gravity for GASOLINE golf carts. The batteries in the E-carts keep the CG lower. Plus less pollution. And in the last sentence, I interpret the idea that there needs to be better enforcement of the Florida law about Golf Carts having a max speed of 20 MPH (and not the 30 or 35 reached when the governor is illegally jacked up.) This is a situation where local LAW enforcement could save local lives.
.........Also, the people who put bigger wheels on their golf carts INCREASE the CG and that makes a vehicle meant for low-speed golf courses into a vehicle likely to overturn around a corner.

[jimjamuser]

I agree, but cars are larger and heavier, and they are equipped with thousands of dollars worth of mandated safety features.
The automobiles likely have a lower CG than a gasoline golf cart. Their suspensions are designed better than a golf cart - and the exhaust systems of the larger engine cars and trucks are QUIETER than most gas golf carts - that is the final insult to golf cart buyers by the manufacturers!

[jimjamuser]

Probably would not make much difference but I've wondered why stop signs are not installed at the gates?
That would help and be very LOGICAL. But SOMEHOW (?) the rules / laws about the color, the small size, and the no flags have been handed down on a stone tablet by some traffic DIETY!

[jimjamuser]

I realize this is confusing, but golf carts don't ALWAYS have to yield the right of way (just most of the time). When on a roadway where they are permitted, a golf cart is considered a vehicle under the law (so is a bicycle). So, let's just move this away from a gate crossing and into a residential neighborhood. A golf cart arrives at a 4 way stop sign intersection 2 seconds before a car----the golf cart has the right of way, NOT the car. Same is true of a bicycle. Another example----a golf cart is in the bike and cart lane approaching a merge point and has a 150 foot lead on a car----the cart may merge---he is NOT cutting off the car and is NOT required to yield. In fact, most signs in the merge zone require cars to slow to 20, which if obeyed would never allow a car to close the distance on a cart going 20. Of course we all know this is not what happens---most of the time the car driver speeds up to 40 to beat the cart to the merge (Usually the same driver that gives a single finger to a car driver that does the same thing to him when HE is the one in the cart:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Now, back to the gate crossing. WHEN there is a stop sign for cars, this is now a 4 way stop and the vehicle arriving first (or furthest right in the case of a tie) has the right of way (in theory)---Also something that we all know doesn't happen. Adding to the confusion is the fact that the stop sign for cars is only occasionally present. I suppose if they put up permanent stop signs at all gates it would be clear (maybe). The worst are those gate crossings where the visibility of oncoming cars is blocked by shrubbery or the gate house and the gate is removed. Inch forward carefully, since even if there is a stop sign and even if you have the right of way, you might end up being dead right.
When the normal functioning gate is in the heavy shade of a large tree, that gate is difficult to see. It is THIN and white with small RED painted lines. Hasn't it been proven that ORANGE has better visibility than RED? Hunters used to wear RED and now they often (due to laws) wear ORANGE vests. I am sure that someone else has pointed this out, but I KNOW that in dark shade from large trees, those gates are hard to see........and if the drivers are daydreaming.....then SPLAT, there goes another gate.

[jimjamuser]

I wonder how bad emissions are from the carts. We might see new requirements slapped on them like most gas powered machines, bumping the cost up even more.
I worry about that. When I am outside and an older gas cart or a loud one with its governor jacked up goes by.......after about 7 car lengths past me, the smell is like that of an open container of gas. Gas golf cars have NO catalytic converter, a minimal suspension system, and a high center of gravity. Probably, the brakes are pathetic also, I am not sure.

[jimjamuser]

Aren't these "Golf Carts of the Future" available today under the name Smart Car? Not exactly a "smart" option on an interstate, IMO. However, there are many foreign cities that have restricted zones in the city center where only electric (or low emission) vehicles are permitted. I find these fume free locations delightful to spend time in.
US citizens do NOT like the idea that Europe and other areas actually are more modern and thoughtful than we are.

[golfing eagles]

US citizens do NOT like the idea that Europe and other areas actually are more modern and thoughtful than we are.

Having just returned from 2 weeks in Europe, I can unequivocally state that is total BS

[Altavia]

I hate golf carts, especially gas ones. That’s why we own three of them and almost never drive a car when at our Villages home. Sometimes I take the car out for a quick spin, just to circulate some fresh gas through the fuel delivery system, when it hasn’t been started for four or five weeks.

LOL!!!

Yep, over 75,000 golf carts in the Villages but the ten people who hate then have to post here...

[retiredguy123]

LOL!!!

Yep, over 75,000 golf carts in the Villages but the ten people who hate then have to post here...
There may be 75,000 golf carts in The Villages, but most of them are not being used except maybe to play golf. Perfect weather today in the low 80's. But at Colony Plaza and at the rec center I visited, less than 5 percent of the vehicles parked there were golf carts.

[JMintzer]

When the normal functioning gate is in the heavy shade of a large tree, that gate is difficult to see. It is THIN and white with small RED painted lines. Hasn't it been proven that ORANGE has better visibility than RED? Hunters used to wear RED and now they often (due to laws) wear ORANGE vests. I am sure that someone else has pointed this out, but I KNOW that in dark shade from large trees, those gates are hard to see........and if the drivers are daydreaming.....then SPLAT, there goes another gate.

So, after living in TV for 15 years, you haven't figured out that there is a gate at the gate houses (or just past the "little red button") and that you're supposed to stop?

[DonH57]

So, after living in TV for 15 years, you haven't figured out that there is a gate at the gate houses (or just past the "little red button") and that you're supposed to stop?

LOL. We've lived here 10 years. I know where all the gates are and I haven't been surprised by a relocated one yet!

[coffeebean]

Do you scream as well????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

The two trips over the 441 bridge I took to the Historic side, I screamed "Weeeeeeeee" all the way from one side to the other. I do love roller coasters so maybe that's why my inner child came out.

[coffeebean]

Most golf cars do not have AC, I bought a new Yamaha when we moved here, I don't golf, didn't find riding around in the heat very comfortable, had several near accidents that would not have been my fault, got rid of it and don't miss it at all. I would much prefer to be in a car with AC to go where ever I feel like going. For golf, there are rentals available.

There may come a time when we all have to face the fact that we must hand over our car keys. The best thing about the golf cart lifestyle in The Villages is you can still maintain independence when you give up driving your automotive vehicle AKA car, SUV, Truck, etc. That is the beauty of The Villages, drive a golf cart to just about everywhere that is essential in your life such as grocery shopping, doctor's offices, rec centers and the squares for entertainment, etc.

[coffeebean]

Every once in a while, you'll see someone waving on someone who does not have the right of way. This could be at a gate entrance when the cart has a stop sign and the car doesn't and the car waves the cart ahead, or at an intersection where opposing cars are stopped, one car signals for a left turn and the oncoming driver waves them ahead.

This is all very neighborly, but puts the driver who does not have the right of way in a precarious legal position if something happens. (And it gets drivers into a bad habit of proceeding when they don't have the right of way.)

I have said this before on this forum but I will say again.......When I'm in my golf cart, waiting to proceed at a gate, I will not make eye contact with any car as they approach the gate. This way, they will proceed through the gate and not try to "wave me on". I make my point........I, in the golf cart, DO NOT have right of way.

[coffeebean]

I think we both have speculated and opinionated enough, so here are THE FACTS, from the Florida Statutes:

First: definition of a "highway:

(53) STREET OR HIGHWAY.—
(a) The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;
(b) The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

So, by legal definition by the State of Florida, a MMP IS a "highway" since it is public and carries "vehicular traffic"(carts, cycles, even scooters)

Next, the definition of an intersection:

17) INTERSECTION.—
(a) The area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curblines; or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways which join one another at, or approximately at, right angles; or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict.

So, again by definition by the State of Florida, the meeting of an MMP and the "car" road, even at a gate crossing is an intersection.

So finally, :

(b) At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

So in conclusion, again, according to THE LAW, an MMP is a "highway", where it crosses at a gate is an "intersection" and the first to arrive, EVEN IF A GOLF CART OR BICYCLE, has the right of way. PERIOD.

OMG.....all these years I have been driving a golf cart and a car here in The Villages, I did not know golf carts have the right of way if the cart arrives at the gate first. I was told that the car always has right of way at the gates. Hmmmmm.

[coffeebean]

I’m sorry I ever bought my golf cart. It was a waist of $15,000. It takes me 25 minutes by golf cart to get to Brownwood, 7 minutes by car, 1 hour to get to Lake Sumter by golf cart, 15 minutes by car, 1 1/2 hours by golf cart to Spanish Springs, 1/2 hour by car. I drive it every 2 weeks just to keep the battery from Dying. I’m active in The Villages but what a waste of money the golf cart purchase was.

It does make a difference if one lives closer to all the destinations you mentioned. By golf cart, it takes me 9 minutes to LSL or Colony Plaza. It takes me 6 minutes to these destinations by car. Of course the car is faster but parking is a lot easier with the cart, especially at LSL. It has been YEARS since I parallel parked a car so I love taking my golf cart to the square just for the ease of parking it.

[JMintzer]

OMG.....all these years I have been driving a golf cart and a car here in The Villages, I did not know golf carts have the right of way if the cart arrives at the gate first. I was told that the car always has right of way at the gates. Hmmmmm.

They don't. There is a stop sign for the golf carts and not one for the automobiles...

[golfing eagles]

OMG.....all these years I have been driving a golf cart and a car here in The Villages, I did not know golf carts have the right of way if the cart arrives at the gate first. I was told that the car always has right of way at the gates. Hmmmmm.

Please read the context of those posts. Cars DO HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY AT GATE CROSSINGS. Please don't confuse the newbies.

My posts defining highways and intersections apply ONLY to the situation where there is a STOP SIGN at the gate or when the gate is removed. Then, according to the definitions given by the State of Florida, it becomes no different than any other 4 way stop where the vehicle arriving first has the right of way (or more technically, the other vehicle must YIELD the right of way)

[Altavia]

there may be 75,000 golf carts in the villages, but most of them are not being used except maybe to play golf. Perfect weather today in the low 80's. But at colony plaza and at the rec center i visited, less than 5 percent of the vehicles parked there were golf carts.

qed

[DonH57]

It does make a difference if one lives closer to all the destinations you mentioned. By golf cart, it takes me 9 minutes to LSL or Colony Plaza. It takes me 6 minutes to these destinations by car. Of course the car is faster but parking is a lot easier with the cart, especially at LSL. It has been YEARS since I parallel parked a car so I love taking my golf cart to the square just for the ease of parking it.

I learned early on expecting to park a car anywhere close to any of the squares resulted in parking half a mile away and the trek back!

[coffeebean]

LOL. I don't need to be in tune with the environment. I just want to get from Point A to Point B, quickly and safely. But, I do enjoy a smooth, air conditioned ride.

Growing up on Long Island, I was never the type to be "in tune" with the environment. Having said that, one of the very first times I took our brand new golf cart out for a ride, I came out of a tunnel and, OMG, I had the most up close and personal encounter with two Sand Hill Cranes. They were absolutely gorgeous. To this day, I still remember that encounter. From that moment on, I love riding in our golf cart. It is an electric cart so it is so quiet and smooth, that enhances my enjoyment. No A/C but the wind in my hair is really nice, even it if it hot wind.

[coffeebean]

They don't. There is a stop sign for the golf carts and not one for the automobiles...
OK........that is probably why I've always driven my cart knowing that I do not have right of way at the gates.

[coffeebean]

Please read the context of those posts. Cars DO HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY AT GATE CROSSINGS. Please don't confuse the newbies.

My posts defining highways and intersections apply ONLY to the situation where there is a STOP SIGN at the gate or when the gate is removed. Then, according to the definitions given by the State of Florida, it becomes no different than any other 4 way stop where the vehicle arriving first has the right of way (or more technically, the other vehicle must YIELD the right of way)

Got it, GE. Sorry; I don't want to confuse the newbies.

[DonH57]

Just minutes ago coming up Modero by cart luckily I pay attention and was aware. I had someone back straight out of their garage out into the street with no idea I had to slam my brakes and thank God had room to avoid slamming into them. Usually I only have this happen in parking lots.

[retiredguy123]

They don't. There is a stop sign for the golf carts and not one for the automobiles...
They often place a temporary stop sign at the gate when the gate has been broken. I just saw one yesterday. To me, this can be confusing regarding the right-of-way. I think it would be better to use a "caution" sign instead. Most people don't stop anyway.

[golfing eagles]

Growing up on Long Island, I was never the type to be "in tune" with the environment. Having said that, one of the very first times I took our brand new golf cart out for a ride, I came out of a tunnel and, OMG, I had the most up close and personal encounter with two Sand Hill Cranes. They were absolutely gorgeous. To this day, I still remember that encounter. From that moment on, I love riding in our golf cart. It is an electric cart so it is so quiet and smooth, that enhances my enjoyment. No A/C but the wind in my hair is really nice, even it if it hot wind.

Where on LI???

[coffeebean]

Where on LI???

Sent you a PM.

[Bilyclub]

They often place a temporary stop sign at the gate when the gate has been broken. I just saw one yesterday. To me, this can be confusing regarding the right-of-way. I think it would be better to use a "caution" sign instead. Most people don't stop anyway.

There are 5 MPH speed limit signs at most gates which also seemed to be ignored.

[Laker14]

I can see why some people don't like using a golf cart. Personally, I like it. In fact, during my summers up north, I miss the golf cart lifestyle a lot. I will be returning to TV soon, and I get excited thinking about tooling around in my cart.

I live in Poinciana, near SeaBreeze and often travel the B.V MMP from Miona to points north of 466, and during the high season I look at the auto traffic on BV, and the cart traffic on the MMP and I think "Genius! What great planning! If all of these carts were cars on Buena Vista, instead of carts on the MMP, there would be twice the car traffic and that would be pretty congested."

Love my cart.

[JMintzer]

They often place a temporary stop sign at the gate when the gate has been broken. I just saw one yesterday. To me, this can be confusing regarding the right-of-way. I think it would be better to use a "caution" sign instead. Most people don't stop anyway.

And that should be treated like any other 4-way stop sign...

And just like any other 4-way stop sign, there are people who don't know what to do when they get there...

[retiredguy123]

And that should be treated like any other 4-way stop sign...

And just like any other 4-way stop sign, there are people who don't know what to do when they get there...
For the record, I don't stop, I don't treat it as a 4-way stop, and I rarely see anyone else stop.

[Bill14564]

And that should be treated like any other 4-way stop sign...

And just like any other 4-way stop sign, there are people who don't know what to do when they get there...

But treating it like a 4-way stop changes the nature of that intersection which more thoroughly confuses some that had no clue in the first place.

At a 4-way stop I look to my right and left to see if there is another vehicle which has stopped at the intersection before I did. If there is, then I wait for the vehicles that arrived first. All vehicles have the same priority so those that stopped first proceed first.

As you know, this is different than the normal operation of the gate. The cars proceed when their gate is raised whether or not a golf cart is already stopped on the MMP. The golf cart never has the same priority as the car; the golf cart always waits for the car to proceed.

Putting a stop sign at the gate and treating it as a 4-way stop changes the normal and expected flow of traffic through the gate. Drivers have a hard enough time figuring out how to handle gates and merges as it is, complicating it by changing the flow will just confuse them more.

And yes, part of the "fun" of driving through and across the gates is predicting just how the confused/careless/entitled/unaware/??? driver is going to act this time.

[JMintzer]

For the record, I don't stop, I don't treat it as a 4-way stop, and I rarely see anyone else stop.

Great... If everyone else drove into a wall would you do the same?