No Rental Zones

[DrMack]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

[tophcfa]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

You are wise to have the major concern articulated. I would strongly suggest that you, and other prospective homebuyers, make your concerns abundantly clear to your Property of the Villages sales representative. Hopefully the message will get through loud and clear to the entity with the clout and resources to do something about the ever growing short term rental problem in the Villages. Best of luck with your home search.

[oldtimes]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

If you have been reading the threads then you would know that there are no protections. The developer does not care. The deed restrictions are worthless. It is a growing problem. We had one in our neighborhood but many of us filed complaints and the woman finally sold her house. There is nothing stopping another one from cropping up though.

[VApeople]

we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages?

No.

[oldtimes]

You are wise to have the major concern articulated. I would strongly suggest that you, and other prospective homebuyers, make your concerns abundantly clear to your Property of the Villages sales representative. Hopefully the message will get through loud and clear to the entity with the clout and resources to do something about the ever growing short term rental problem in the Villages. Best of luck with your home search.

Excellent suggestion

[asianthree]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

Every new village that opens has more than normal rentals. Some buy prior to retirement, and usually rent high season to offset cost.

Abnb is becoming a problem in some areas. To complain to your agent or the Villages is waste of time. Especially since some of those rentals may or may not belong to VLS agents.

Where you will find less and less rentals, are in long established neighborhoods. With the occasional rental due to an illness or just age.

Each neighborhood we moved to had rentals for 3-5 years, dwelling each year

[Papa_lecki]

Even if it was a restriction, which I dont know of any area where it is, it’s an internal restriction, and enforcement won’t happen.

Agree on the comment on established area. We moved into an established neighborhood, all full timers, great neighborhood

[rustyp]

There is no such thing as short term rental not allowed in TV. You can do a couple things that may hedge your bet against being in a neighborhood with an above average amount of short term rentals.
- Buy a preowned home. You can scout out the neighborhood and try to talk with neighbors before buying. You also avoid the latest fade of corporations buying for the purpose of renting the homes out.
- If buying new avoid Villas. These are the cheapest new build homes in TV and many owners already own homes in TV and are purchasing for for income investment.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Rentals are both the boon and the bane of The Villages. If you have a good neighbor for a tenant, then you're luckier than being stuck with a creep as a permanent resident-owner. If you have a lousy short-term tenant, you can feel comfortable knowing that it's just short term, and the next one might be better. If you have a terrific short-term neighbor tenant, you might feel a loss when the average "meh" property owner comes back to stay during snowbird season.

My neighbor rents her place out using AirBnB. She vets the tenants and so far, she's done a good job of it. I would MUCH prefer having consistency in neighbors. How can you be friendly to someone you meet the third day after they arrive, and they're gone two days later? What's the point in even trying to develop a friendship?

A landlord who allows short-term tenants, for a long period of time, isn't any better. I never see them, I only see their tenants. Why would I want to make friends with them, if their house never has them actually living in it?

On the other hand, you could be stuck with a long-term tenant who's there for a few years, who you can't stand. In that case I'd probably prefer the 1-week-stay guy who keeps to himself, isn't friendly, but also doesn't put the trash out three days before trash day.

On the other OTHER hand - you could end up with a homeowner living in their house next door to you, who puts their trash out three days before trash day - and when you mention it in a kind, neighborly way, they get an outdoor cat and sprinkle freeze-dried fish on the property line every week, JUST to annoy you.

so - it's not the fact that people rent that determines whether your neighbor will be a good neighbor or not. It's how long they're staying, combined with how well they integrate with the rest of the neighborhood.

[mtdjed]

You are wise to have the major concern articulated. I would strongly suggest that you, and other prospective homebuyers, make your concerns abundantly clear to your Property of the Villages sales representative. Hopefully the message will get through loud and clear to the entity with the clout and resources to do something about the ever growing short term rental problem in the Villages. Best of luck with your home search.

Isn't this somewhat contradictory since the Developer is likely one of the largest short term rental agents in The Villages with its Lifestyle Visit rentals?

[ThirdOfFive]

I don't know if the possibility of rentals would dissuade me from buying. We bought used three years ago, and on our block there are two rentals that I know of. Both properties are better-kept than a couple of properties where the owner lives on premises.

This probably isn't an uncommon phenomenon though. People use forums like this to vent, so it is a possibility that the "problem" of rentals is more apparent than real.

[Cybersprings]

Every new village that opens has more than normal rentals. Some buy prior to retirement, and usually rent high season to offset cost.

Abnb is becoming a problem in some areas. To complain to your agent or the Villages is waste of time. Especially since some of those rentals may or may not belong to VLS agents.

Where you will find less and less rentals, are in long established neighborhoods. With the occasional rental due to an illness or just age.

Each neighborhood we moved to had rentals for 3-5 years, dwelling each year

You may have seen on the other thread that I have not taken the side of STRs are all bad, etc. However, I thought the thread of sharing the concerns with the villages agent, and actually not buying a house because of STRs was an excellent idea. If those who are adamantly against STRs did that, affecting the sales of homes, I think that is an outstanding way to influence things with the developer. I would bet the agents talk to each other and pass up the line obstacles to selling in the villages. If that became a significant obstacle, I believe TV would address it. But, not saying that would be quick, or even that it is the best way to address their concerns. But it is one way to get TV to support you rather than fight you.

[Cybersprings]

Rentals are both the boon and the bane of The Villages. If you have a good neighbor for a tenant, then you're luckier than being stuck with a creep as a permanent resident-owner. If you have a lousy short-term tenant, you can feel comfortable knowing that it's just short term, and the next one might be better. If you have a terrific short-term neighbor tenant, you might feel a loss when the average "meh" property owner comes back to stay during snowbird season.

My neighbor rents her place out using AirBnB. She vets the tenants and so far, she's done a good job of it. I would MUCH prefer having consistency in neighbors. How can you be friendly to someone you meet the third day after they arrive, and they're gone two days later? What's the point in even trying to develop a friendship?

A landlord who allows short-term tenants, for a long period of time, isn't any better. I never see them, I only see their tenants. Why would I want to make friends with them, if their house never has them actually living in it?

On the other hand, you could be stuck with a long-term tenant who's there for a few years, who you can't stand. In that case I'd probably prefer the 1-week-stay guy who keeps to himself, isn't friendly, but also doesn't put the trash out three days before trash day.

On the other OTHER hand - you could end up with a homeowner living in their house next door to you, who puts their trash out three days before trash day - and when you mention it in a kind, neighborly way, they get an outdoor cat and sprinkle freeze-dried fish on the property line every week, JUST to annoy you.

so - it's not the fact that people rent that determines whether your neighbor will be a good neighbor or not. It's how long they're staying, combined with how well they integrate with the rest of the neighborhood.

I think we have been on opposite sides of a vast number of threads. I want to take this wonderful opportunity to share that I think your post is one of the best posts on the topic that I have read.

[njbchbum]

If you want to know if the folks where you plan to live are full-time residents or not, you can check the tax records to find out if the residence and mailing address are the same. If different than you know the house might be a rental or the folks are just snowbirds. You can also check rental and airbnb sites against the addresses.

[asianthree]

You may have seen on the other thread that I have not taken the side of STRs are all bad, etc. However, I thought the thread of sharing the concerns with the villages agent, and actually not buying a house because of STRs was an excellent idea. If those who are adamantly against STRs did that, affecting the sales of homes, I think that is an outstanding way to influence things with the developer. I would bet the agents talk to each other and pass up the line obstacles to selling in the villages. If that became a significant obstacle, I believe TV would address it. But, not saying that would be quick, or even that it is the best way to address their concerns. But it is one way to get TV to support you rather than fight you.

The only way the developers would take notice is if they stopped selling hundreds of homes every month. That may happen in 20 years.

You realize almost every person that has moved to TV has rented for at least one day, up to years. We rented then bought house 1, 2, and 3 as investment properties. So again as long as homes sell, there will be rentals.

Durning the pandemic there was a clause in your contract that you could not rent out your home due to shortage of homes. Didn’t work, people still rent per them

[VApeople]

Maybe the best way to avoid living near short-term rentals is to buy a house in a crummy area where no one wants to rent.

In my expert opinion, Dabney is an excellent choice because it is a long way away from everything and most people will not want to rent there. Our neighborhood Osceola Hills is good as well, because we are a very long way from the entertainment areas.

I think the neighborhoods near the entertainment will appeal more to renters.

[Babubhat]

No guarantees. Would need a ordinance like Nyc. Would expect the lowest priced housing to be rental heavy. Check the rent from a villager site. Can sort by village

[margaretmattson]

No guarantees. Would need a ordinance like Nyc. Would expect the lowest priced housing to be rental heavy. Check the rent from a villager site. Can sort by village I live in a CYV that is walking distance to a town square. In the past three years, rentals have been increasing in my neighborhood. The street I live on now has 10 rentals. I have spoken to many homeowners who are surrounded by investment homes, like myself. I agree that it seems the lowest priced housing is rental heavy I.e. patio villas, ranch style homes, and court yard villas. My area is rental heavy because it is close to a town square. If you purchase a designer home, I believe you will have a better chance of avoiding rental properties.

[Two Bills]

My thoughts echo OBB's very good summary in post #9.
I would add that STR on Lifestyle visits are usually people considering moving too, and living in TV.
Probably a better neighbor, than vacationers that come to party.
We were winter months renters for over 20 years, stayed in various parts of TV and never met any of the anti-social behavior that a lot of posts are now quoting.

[BlueStarAirlines]

Isn't this somewhat contradictory since the Developer is likely one of the largest short term rental agents in The Villages with its Lifestyle Visit rentals?

The homes used for the lifestyle visits are not sprinkled throughout a village and are located in one section. There are no residents in that cluster of villas, just those on a lifestyle visit or here for their design appointment.

The key as others have mentioned is to stay away from the villas and cottages as well as villages that are close to the town squares. If you want to see a VERY heavy rental village look at Richmond.

[wachteldepew]

If you don’t want to buy where there aren’t any short term rentals, then the villages is not for you. They are permitted everywhere here and will continue to operate. Not trying to be rude just realistic.

[Klearhead]

Investors buy with their own intentions just as you or I would. **** is something I've used for over 20 years and can attest to the quality of homes these owners make available for people like myself. I'm a Villager for the past 7 years as a result of ****. Unnecessary fears are often projected here by rightfully concerned owners. Hope this helps, have a great day...

[margaretmattson]

If you don’t want to buy where there aren’t any short term rentals, then the villages is not for you. They are permitted everywhere here and will continue to operate. Not trying to be rude just realistic.No truer words have been spoken. More and more are popping up everyday. Preowned investor homes are listed on MLS as ready to go STRS. The new square, East Port, will be here in the Spring. That area is most definitely going to be rental heavy. Investors will not be able to resist the high rents they can collect.

[bowlingal]

you already purchased your house. It's a little late for concern now. There is not any area in the villages that rentals are prohibited. Keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best

[Triker]

Definitely check it out before you purchase. Love Village of Richmond, it is close to Brownwood and other things but it’s full of investment rentals, corporate rentals and private rentals. More than a homeowner would want to see. Miss having regular neighbors.

[Sandy and Ed]

I don't know if the possibility of rentals would dissuade me from buying. We bought used three years ago, and on our block there are two rentals that I know of. Both properties are better-kept than a couple of properties where the owner lives on premises.

This probably isn't an uncommon phenomenon though. People use forums like this to vent, so it is a possibility that the "problem" of rentals is more apparent than real.
Agree to a point. **** properties probably are kept well. Problem is length of the rental. Should be no less than 30 consecutive days minimum and not the weekend or weekly ones.

[Stu from NYC]

Here we have lots of snowbirds so not many people out and about.

[BrianL99]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.


There is no area of The Villages, where STR's are clearly prohibited. There is an argument that the "no business" language in the Deed Restrictions would apply to STR's, but no one has been willing to press the issue in court.

This post sums it up.

I live in a CYV that is walking distance to a town square. In the past three years, rentals have been increasing in my neighborhood. The street I live on now has 10 rentals. I have spoken to many homeowners who are surrounded by investment homes, like myself. I agree that it seems the lowest priced housing is rental heavy I.e. patio villas, ranch style homes, and court yard villas. My area is rental heavy because it is close to a town square. If you purchase a designer home, I believe you will have a better chance of avoiding rental properties.

If you opt for a more economical choice of homes, you're likely to get what you pay for. Patio Villas & Courtyard Villas are what they are. Glorified apartments, with little or no separation from your neighbors, limited parking, shared property areas and just about every other negative you'd associate with the bargain basement solution. The old adage, "you get what you pay for", certainly applies in those neighborhoods. It's sort of like buying in the so-called "historic district" ... don't be surprised if you're living next to a trailer.

"Renters" are much more likely to choose the most economical solution, which means renting in the less desirable areas ... patio villas, courtyard villas, historic district, etc.

The folks living over in Bridgeport, certainly aren't complaining about all the renters in their neighborhood.

[karenzeee]

In 2019, we acquired a preowned property with the purpose of renting it out during the peak season until our retirement, which is only a few years away.

We place great importance on carefully handpicking our tenants because we highly value our neighbors and aim to uphold a respectful and harmonious atmosphere in the community. Our rental period spans four months annually, with a minimum lease duration of two months. This approach serves to help us cover the property's expenses as we approach retirement.

What sets our approach apart is our personal involvement in tenant selection and management. We utilize an owner-managed website for renting our home, distinct from platforms like Airbnb and property management companies, which offer less control over tenant selection.

Speaking from a personal perspective, I share the sentiment of not wanting a property next to mine to experience frequent tenant turnovers every 2 or 3 days. This is why we believe in longer-term rentals, which contribute to maintaining a stable and friendly neighborhood environment.

:gc:

[lphallrd]

I have been told that many VLS sales agents own income properties for rental purposes. I don’t know any stats regarding this. Many people who purchase in The Villages probably did a short-term rental before buying, so there’s that. The other option that you might find yourself faced with is not renters but vacant properties around you where owners are there only part of the year. Honestly, you make your life around what you have and you can’t control what others do with their properties. Enjoy life!

[Topgun 1776]

Rentals are part of TV way of life. There is NO guarantee ANY neighborhood will be or stay rent free. Either buy here or don't. Good luck in your search.

[Wing-nut2]

Seems many of you are anti-rental. But, how many of you rented before you bought your home? Many people rent to find out if TV fits them.

[GATORBILL66]

we are purchasing in dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want vrbos or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

no rentals less than 3 months!

[oldtimes]

Seems many of you are anti-rental. But, how many of you rented before you bought your home? Many people rent to find out if TV fits them.

We are talking about DAILY rentals to people 18 and above with multiple people in the homes who are here to party, not couples who are interested in The Villages.

[Mrs S]

I think we have been on opposite sides of a vast number of threads. I want to take this wonderful opportunity to share that I think your post is one of the best posts on the topic that I have read.
Agree

[margaretmattson]

There is no area of The Villages, where STR's are clearly prohibited. There is an argument that the "no business" language in the Deed Restrictions would apply to STR's, but no one has been willing to press the issue in court.

This post sums it up.



If you opt for a more economical choice of homes, you're likely to get what you pay for. Patio Villas & Courtyard Villas are what they are. Glorified apartments, with little or no separation from your neighbors, limited parking, shared property areas and just about every other negative you'd associate with the bargain basement solution. The old adage, "you get what you pay for", certainly applies in those neighborhoods. It's sort of like buying in the so-called "historic district" ... don't be surprised if you're living next to a trailer.

"Renters" are much more likely to choose the most economical solution, which means renting in the less desirable areas ... patio villas, courtyard villas, historic district, etc.

The folks living over in Bridgeport, certainly aren't complaining about all the renters in their neighborhood. Homes near squares are more expensive then homes that are not. Look at the going prices for Villas in Brownwood. You will not find one less than $500,000.
Investors buy these homes, charge high rents, then flip at a higher price. They are well aware renters will pay more to be close to a square.

Patio Villas are also a good buy for investors because the cost is low. However, the rents charged by investors are not.

Of course, there are very few rentals in Bridgeport. Renters want to be near the squares, not in some area where there is little action and few neighbors. This is why I suggest you buy a designer home if you want to avoid rentals.Still then, there is no guarantee.

[Kelevision]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

In my opinion, this isn’t anything to be concerned about. There are houses for rent all over the villages. Lots of houses being inherited by children who don’t want to live here so they either sell or rent. I stayed here twice in private rentals before buying. Honestly, as for my neighbors, I only know they’re here when I see the trash on the driveway.

[Jayhawk]

There is no area of The Villages, where STR's are clearly prohibited. There is an argument that the "no business" language in the Deed Restrictions would apply to STR's, but no one has been willing to press the issue in court.




Florida state law prohibits local governments from banning short-term rentals altogether and from limiting the length or frequency of stays. These Florida laws make the Sunshine State one of the preferred markets for investors interested in vacation rental investing.

County and city governments can pass their own rules in order to control the negative impact of vacation rentals on local communities.

Florida Short Term Rental Laws: AirBnB & Vacation Rental Regulations (https://awning.com/post/florida-short-term-rental-laws)

[rustyp]

Thinking out loud - are not neighborhood driveway parties with loud music, street blocked off, many loud and drinking people a very similar situation to a short term rental issue? What about the neighbor that does not wish to participate in the driveway party. We have rec centers and town squares. I understood the driveway parties with COVID issue but why is this an acceptable situation now all the venues are reopened ?

[TVTVTV]

Why not only allow home rentals of one month minimum? That eliminates most vacationers and partiers, and makes it easier for the rental person or company to administer, while bringing in the desired revenue for the owner. One to two week rentals seem to bring the most problems and concerns.

[Gettingoutofdodge]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

To my knowledge, there are no places in The Villages that short term rentals are not allowed or monitored.
I bought a resale a year ago in a Courtyard Villa in Charlotte. Probably 1/2 of it are snowbirds, renters/long and short term. Both my neighbors are snowbirds. Those homes are usually not as well cared for as those who live here full time. It definitely changes the feel of the neighborhood.
I am fortunate because I made friends in TV from other areas. It is very quiet and desolate here in the summer months. You can count the garbage outside homes to get a feel for how empty it is.
It is also harder when you are single to make friends in an established, older neighborhood. Most of the owners are married and already have established relationships and friends.
I read that a lot of the homes in the new Villages are being purchased in bulk by speculators for rentals.
I never considered this when I bought. The Villages is a beautiful place to live, especially in the winter. That’s why it’s so popular with snowbirds and lucrative with speculators.
All the best to you in your new home.

[JGibson]

I think supply of STR is outpacing demand as I see a lot of "for rent" signs throughout my village.
Although STR is not limited to villas as 2 or 3 couples do like renting designer homes as it's more cost effective and many come with pools.

[BrianL99]

Florida state law prohibits local governments from banning short-term rentals altogether and from limiting the length or frequency of stays. These Florida laws make the Sunshine State one of the preferred markets for investors interested in vacation rental investing.

County and city governments can pass their own rules in order to control the negative impact of vacation rentals on local communities.

Florida Short Term Rental Laws: AirBnB & Vacation Rental Regulations (https://awning.com/post/florida-short-term-rental-laws)

Deed Restrictions and the Florida law against communities banning short term rentals, are unrelated.

[nn0wheremann]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.
You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. No restrictions on short term rentals.

However, name and address of the owner of the STR house is available through public records. You could address your concerns directly, or if necessary through a lawsuit.

There is an STR a short distance from our home, and it has been no problem so far. It is a vast improvement over the previous situation when that house was fouled up in a reverse mortgage situation gone awry.

[kimgarwel12@gmail.com]

Build in the Enclave area of Dabney. Bet there won't be any rentals there!

[Hillery12]

Unit 12 in Fenney is a no rental area. We are all designer homes with many veranda homes in the mix. It was in our contract when we bought our home that we could not rent. This is a great neighborhood.

[Vermilion Villager]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm sure by now you've heard the answer is "NO". My suggestion is to buy a more expensive model in a neighborhood of expensive homes. Most of the rentals are from patio villa homes. We have a Courtyard Villa block home in Marsh Bend and there is only one rental out of 46 homes. One post suggested established neighborhoods. I say just the opposite. Most of the homes up north are smaller and older, hence a better mark for investments.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

My town up north just banned all rentals of under 28 days so it’s possible…

[Dlbonivich]

As an owner in a deed restricted area you are entitled as owners to change deed restrictions. In the situation in the Villages I imagine your District supervisors that you vote for can do this. It will cost money probably an attorney, it can be done.

[jparsoneau@aol.com]

Yes, if you’re concerned about this, you probably should not move to The Villages. And as others have said, if you want to get away from rentals, going to the older neighborhoods versus the newer neighborhoods. But you won’t escape all the rentals. I would assume where you’re living now you probably have Rentals as well.
So just be careful where you step

[Cybersprings]

Unit 12 in Fenney is a no rental area. We are all designer homes with many veranda homes in the mix. It was in our contract when we bought our home that we could not rent. This is a great neighborhood.

I am definitely NOT DISPUTING what you say. But so many have posted that there is no area in the villages where even STRs are prohibited. Is your area the hidden gem of The Villages?

[roypw]

It’s a shame there is such bias against renters. Like posted above, many if not most home owners rented before buying. We have rented maybe a dozen times a month or 2 at a time and I must admit we were really disappointed that residents were not more friendly. We absolutely loveThe Villages but at the time couldn’t buy for family reasons but the fact that the residents seemed so UNFRIENDLY made us delay our decision even more.. We were great renters and stayed in some beautiful homes. We tried to establish neighborhood friendships with no luck at all, very unfriendly place. It wasn’t until recently we realized there was this renter bias. Not fully understanding it sure gave us a bad impression. Think about it the next time you aren’t friendly and welcome a renter. Like us they may feel they are residents just waiting for the right time to buy. We probably would have a house in The Villages if residents would have been more friendly.

[DrMack]

Is this all of Fenney? We would be very interested. We have to close soon so please advise.

[Nancy@Pinellas]

We have a rental on our street and have had no problems whatsoever. We have had some very nice guests staying here.

[Bill14564]

I am definitely NOT DISPUTING what you say. But so many have posted that there is no area in the villages where even STRs are prohibited. Is your area the hidden gem of The Villages?

There are a lot of deed restrictions in the Villages. "Many" don't even read their own, much less those of other areas. Even worse, deed restrictions can be modified like those for area 12 and 20 were so what is restricted today may not be tomorrow and vice versa.

[Cybersprings]

It’s a shame there is such bias against renters. Like posted above, many if not most home owners rented before buying. We have rented maybe a dozen times a month or 2 at a time and I must admit we were really disappointed that residents were not more friendly. We absolutely loveThe Villages but at the time couldn’t buy for family reasons but the fact that the residents seemed so UNFRIENDLY made us delay our decision even more.. We were great renters and stayed in some beautiful homes. We tried to establish neighborhood friendships with no luck at all, very unfriendly place. It wasn’t until recently we realized there was this renter bias. Not fully understanding it sure gave us a bad impression. Think about it the next time you aren’t friendly and welcome a renter. Like us they may feel they are residents just waiting for the right time to buy. We probably would have a house in The Villages if residents would have been more friendly.

I agree with you 100%, but they don't like the snowbird owners either, so don't take it too personally. I am going to make a prediction, at least one person is going to respond with "we are only talking about short term renters" because they do not like it when their bias is pointed out, and as if all the bias you have seen/felt does not occur all the time . Yes, this thread may be about short term rentals (but not those by the developer), but the bias in all of the other threads and in the neighborhoods is real.

[Indydealmaker]

I believe you will find that there are no deed restrictions regarding this matter.

[LonnyP]

Nimby nimby nimby

[oldtimes]

Unit 12 in Fenney is a no rental area. We are all designer homes with many veranda homes in the mix. It was in our contract when we bought our home that we could not rent. This is a great neighborhood.

Good luck getting that enforced

[Bill14564]

I agree with you 100%, but they don't like the snowbird owners either, so don't take it too personally. I am going to make a prediction, at least one person is going to respond with "we are only talking about short term renters" because they do not like it when their bias is pointed out, and as if all the bias you have seen/felt does not occur all the time . Yes, this thread may be about short term rentals (but not those by the developer), but the bias in all of the other threads and in the neighborhoods is real.

Is it that "they" don't like renters and snowbirds or is it that "they" are less interested in investing in a relationship that is going to end in a week or a month?

While the renter is looking for friendship or things to do for his month or week here, I have things that keep me busy all year round. Sure, I could drop what I am doing to make a new friend and cultivate a new relationship but why would I do that knowing full well it is going to end? I certainly can and will be friendly towards a stranger in the area but I'm not likely to develop a friendship with someone who is only here for a minute.

Snowbirds and longer-term renters are a different story. They will be here for a while and, in the case of snowbirds and some renters, they will be coming back. I generally look forward to seeing someone I recognize and someone who has been here a while.

I don't feel that I am biased against renters, I just recognize that they are people who are not going to be in my life long term. Being friendly is quick and easy. Devoting time and developing a friendship takes longer and is (at least in my case) reserved for those who may be around for a while.

[Bill14564]

I believe you will find that there are no deed restrictions regarding this matter.

See posts 46 and 56.

[oldtimes]

Is it that "they" don't like renters and snowbirds or is it that "they" are less interested in investing in a relationship that is going to end in a week or a month?



We are not talking about a week or a month, we are talking about DAILY renters like Motel6

[Cybersprings]

We are not talking about a week or a month, we are talking about DAILY renters like Motel6

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. See post #57

[Cybersprings]

Is it that "they" don't like renters and snowbirds or is it that "they" are less interested in investing in a relationship that is going to end in a week or a month?

While the renter is looking for friendship or things to do for his month or week here, I have things that keep me busy all year round. Sure, I could drop what I am doing to make a new friend and cultivate a new relationship but why would I do that knowing full well it is going to end? I certainly can and will be friendly towards a stranger in the area but I'm not likely to develop a friendship with someone who is only here for a minute.

Snowbirds and longer-term renters are a different story. They will be here for a while and, in the case of snowbirds and some renters, they will be coming back. I generally look forward to seeing someone I recognize and someone who has been here a while.

I don't feel that I am biased against renters, I just recognize that they are people who are not going to be in my life long term. Being friendly is quick and easy. Devoting time and developing a friendship takes longer and is (at least in my case) reserved for those who may be around for a while.

I completely understand and empathize with your perspective.
But, to answer your question in the beginning, I'm not sure. What do you think from the thread a few months back with all the posts about good riddance to the snowbirds, wish they would leave sooner?

[Bill14564]

I completely understand and empathize with your perspective.
But, to answer your question in the beginning, I'm not sure. What do you think from the thread a few months back with all the posts about good riddance to the snowbirds, wish they would leave sooner?

I think that attitude reflects poorly on the Villages and I hope I don't meet anyone that truly feels that way.

I do look forward to the absence of crowds in the restaurants and squares but I actually think the snowbirds leaving makes things worse. I almost wish the snowbirds would stay for three reasons: 1. some of them are friends and I miss them; 2. with a more stable number of customers, restaurants could ramp up to meet the needs; and 3. if the snowbirds were permanent then the "newness" of being back would wear off and there wouldn't be the rush to get back to the squares and restaurants.

[Joe C.]

Been here 7 years. Never rented before buying. Haven't had any problems with renters in our neighborhood. Most renters are older retired or retiring people who want to buy. I don't think that there is too much cause to worry.

[Karmanng]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

GOOD LUCK with that! They are all over........

[vintageogauge]

there are sections south of 44 that do not allow rentals at all. Also, most of the short term rentals are villas or cottages, etc., if you are in a higher end section there won't be much of that around you, monthly or long term but not daily or weekly. We have no rentals on our street but there is one around the corner, they rent monthly and we don't even know anyone is in there, most tenants are not down here to party and make a bunch of noise, they are here to enjoy the winter weather and see what there is to see.

[Tennisfan1]

There are several neighborhoods in Marsh Bend that do not allow rentals. My sister lives on Dunham Dr and they cannot have rentals.

[Philipd411]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

You and your neighbors needs to band together and buy properties that are being rented out as VRBOs or Airbnb. The fact is, these are all over the place in the villages. I have at least three near me. But not are they only in the villages they are every where even from where you moved from.

[Cybersprings]

I think that attitude reflects poorly on the Villages and I hope I don't meet anyone that truly feels that way.

I do look forward to the absence of crowds in the restaurants and squares but I actually think the snowbirds leaving makes things worse. I almost wish the snowbirds would stay for three reasons: 1. some of them are friends and I miss them; 2. with a more stable number of customers, restaurants could ramp up to meet the needs; and 3. if the snowbirds were permanent then the "newness" of being back would wear off and there wouldn't be the rush to get back to the squares and restaurants.

In my opinion all very valid points and wishing there were fewer snowbirds and more permanent residents for the reasonable reasons you stated does express a little bit of a negative bias (or maybe better termed - pference) against snowbirds, but not in an unfriendly way. I don't think any snowbird should take offense to that. And I hope more people begin to express their feelings in that type of way.

[Randall55]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated. There is no guarantee rentals will not be in your area. But, if you purchased a designer home, chances are you will have more permanent residents. Good Luck! Wishing you the best!

[Randall55]

We are not talking about a week or a month, we are talking about DAILY renters like Motel6 Silly me! I thought the OP wanted suggestions on areas that do not have VRBOS or STRS. Is there an area you recommend to answer the concern?

[ThirdOfFive]

It’s a shame there is such bias against renters. Like posted above, many if not most home owners rented before buying. We have rented maybe a dozen times a month or 2 at a time and I must admit we were really disappointed that residents were not more friendly. We absolutely loveThe Villages but at the time couldn’t buy for family reasons but the fact that the residents seemed so UNFRIENDLY made us delay our decision even more.. We were great renters and stayed in some beautiful homes. We tried to establish neighborhood friendships with no luck at all, very unfriendly place. It wasn’t until recently we realized there was this renter bias. Not fully understanding it sure gave us a bad impression. Think about it the next time you aren’t friendly and welcome a renter. Like us they may feel they are residents just waiting for the right time to buy. We probably would have a house in The Villages if residents would have been more friendly.
If you look for something hard enough, odds are you'll find it.

We rented several times here before buying, and our experiences couldn't have been better. No problems with resident owners. Quite the opposite in fact: some went out of their way to make us feel welcome. Our experiences with locals were in fact one of the primary reasons for us moving here. In all honesty, we made it a point to BE friendly ourselves, and found it more than reciprocated.

[Marathon Man]

Been here 7 years. Never rented before buying. Haven't had any problems with renters in our neighborhood. Most renters are older retired or retiring people who want to buy. I don't think that there is too much cause to worry.

Well said. I agree. Our community is getting large. And any number of problems concerning anything will seem like a real issue, but the number is small in percentage.

[oldtimes]

Well said. I agree. Our community is getting large. And any number of problems concerning anything will seem like a real issue, but the number is small in percentage.

Yes I understand, if it hasn't happened to you it is not a problem but future buyers have a right to know that the problem exists and they could be impacted. This is not necessarily the "over 55 retirement community" that they are led to believe.

[Cybersprings]

Yes I understand, if it hasn't happened to you it is not a problem but future buyers have a right to know that the problem exists and they could be impacted. This is not necessarily the "over 55 retirement community" that they are led to believe.

Why do people keep doing this??? The post to which you replied stated that the percentage is small. They did not state or imply that because it didn't happen to them, it was not a problem. The implication of the post to which I am responding is the the person is self-absorbed or uncaring.

It would have been so easy to say, "while the percentage is small, future buyers have a right to know that the problem exists and they could be impacted." Or, if one disagrees that it is a small percentage, they can state that, and possibly even provide support why. Why is it necessary to make those other implications??? But then again, if the high road was taken, I would having nothing else to do other than nap or play golf.

[Randall55]

Why do people keep doing this??? The post to which you replied stated that the percentage is small. They did not state or imply that because it didn't happen to them, it was not a problem. The implication of the post to which I am responding is the the person is self-absorbed or uncaring.

It would have been so easy to say, "while the percentage is small, future buyers have a right to know that the problem exists and they could be impacted." Or, if one disagrees that it is a small percentage, they can state that, and possibly even provide support why. Why is it necessary to make those other implications??? But then again, if the high road was taken, I would having nothing else to do other than nap or play golf. I find it remarkable that people would rather break down another's post and feel the need to correct the wording. Why not just answer the OP question. Do you know of areas in the Villages where there are no VRBOS and STRS?

[Bill14564]

I find it remarkable that people would rather break down another's post and feel the need to correct the wording. Why not just answer the OP question. Do you know of areas in the Villages where there are no VRBOS and STRS?

I believe several posts have stated there is no guarantee.

[HoosierPa]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.


I know there is a unit in Fenney that did not allow any rentals, but you would have to research through The Villages

[GizmoWhiskers]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome to T V! Not to be mean but... that's funny...

No, T V does zip to protect residents from ABnB's and short term rentals. Nope, nada. They do protect their own finances by you agreeing not to sell your home for a profit for 1 year.

FL requires a business license for some types short term rentals. Villa deed restrictions specifically say no businesses can be run out of a Villa. T V does not enforce their deed restrictions for Villas.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Thank you Rick Scott!!!! :ohdear:
FL law some types of short term rentals require a business license. Deed restrictions can block businesses from being run out of certain homes in T V. Villas are one type. NO BUSINESSES can be run out of a Villa. Its just that T V does not enforce.

[jonathanb]

There is a neighborhood in Fenney that was a non rental neighborhood. But you would have to buy pre owned if any were available there.

[Bill14564]

FL law short term rentals require a business license. Deed restrictions can block businesses from being run out of certain homes in T V. Villas are one type. NO BUSINESSES can be run out of a Villa. Its just that T V does not enforce.

That is not how the restrictions read. Words matter.

[Cybersprings]

I find it remarkable that people would rather break down another's post and feel the need to correct the wording. Why not just answer the OP question. Do you know of areas in the Villages where there are no VRBOS and STRS?

Did you not just do the same to my post???

That answer has been provided many times over in this thread. If you want the thread closed, propose that to the admin. I wonder if readers realize that the post that I responded to in no way answered the question either. Yet it was my post that was singled out. hmmm Once again, pot, meet kettle

[Cybersprings]

I find it remarkable that people would rather break down another's post and feel the need to correct the wording. Why not just answer the OP question. Do you know of areas in the Villages where there are no VRBOS and STRS?

BTW, I didn't correct anyone's wording. I provided an example of how easy it is to make a (the poster's) valid point without having to attribute words to someone that they didn't say, and then to disparage them for saying those words (that they didn't say).

Do you support attributing words to someone that they didn't say, and then disparaging them for that? just wondering.

[Normal]

Don’t even think a designer home neighborhood is rental free, far from it. We have a designer home and have rental issues.

[brianherlihy]

we moved to stonecrest and you have to stay for 6 months we had a home in the villages and rented for 123475 days and week with kids

[Carla B]

we moved to stonecrest and you have to stay for 6 months we had a home in the villages and rented for 123475 days and week with kids

Huh? How many days?

[JMintzer]

It’s a shame there is such bias against renters. Like posted above, many if not most home owners rented before buying. We have rented maybe a dozen times a month or 2 at a time and I must admit we were really disappointed that residents were not more friendly. We absolutely loveThe Villages but at the time couldn’t buy for family reasons but the fact that the residents seemed so UNFRIENDLY made us delay our decision even more.. We were great renters and stayed in some beautiful homes. We tried to establish neighborhood friendships with no luck at all, very unfriendly place. It wasn’t until recently we realized there was this renter bias. Not fully understanding it sure gave us a bad impression. Think about it the next time you aren’t friendly and welcome a renter. Like us they may feel they are residents just waiting for the right time to buy. We probably would have a house in The Villages if residents would have been more friendly.

We had the exact opposite experience when we rented for 2 months during the Winter of 2021...

The neighbors and people we met and talked to in the Squares and Restaurants and when out walking our dog couldn't have been nicer when we asked questions and showed interest in buying...

We wound up buying during that time frame and we couldn't be happier.

We're still not full time (we come and go as much as possible and we DON'T rent out when we're not in TV), but we're counting the days until that happens...

[JMintzer]

I find it remarkable that people would rather break down another's post and feel the need to correct the wording. Why not just answer the OP question. Do you know of areas in the Villages where there are no VRBOS and STRS?

Because that question was answered in the first few posts...

The rest is just discussion... Easily ignored... By some, but not all, apparently...

[JMintzer]

Welcome to T V! Not to be mean but... that's funny...

No, T V does zip to protect residents from ABnB's and short term rentals. Nope, nada. They do protect their own finances by you agreeing not to sell your home for a profit for 1 year.

FL requires a business license for short term rentals. Villa deed restrictions specifically say no businesses can be run out of a Villa. T V does not enforce their deed restrictions for Villas.

The business restriction specifically talks about business maintaining inventory and requiring people to come and go to participate in said business.

ie, running a clothing shop out of your house...

Now, one could argue that STRs have people "coming and going", but you'd be hard pressed to use that argument in a legal sense...

[JMintzer]

Don’t even think a designer home neighborhood is rental free, far from it. We have a designer home and have rental issues.

One would think it is much less common...

[BrianL99]

As an owner in a deed restricted area you are entitled as owners to change deed restrictions. In the situation in the Villages I imagine your District supervisors that you vote for can do this. It will cost money probably an attorney, it can be done.

Good luck with that theory.

[tophcfa]

As an owner in a deed restricted area you are entitled as owners to change deed restrictions. In the situation in the Villages I imagine your District supervisors that you vote for can do this. It will cost money probably an attorney, it can be done.

The deed restrictions themselves don’t need to be changed. What needs to be changed is the enforcement process. Having the internal deed restriction enforcement responsibility being optional, by an entity with a HUGH conflict of interest, has proven to be a complete and total sham of the entire deed restriction concept. Deed restrict enforcement needs to be an absolute responsibility, assigned to a party with no conflict of interest, period!

[Limey]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

This is one of the reasons we moved into an established neighborhood. Very few rentals and mostly full time residents. Anywhere North appears to be one of the best bets in this regard. Anywhere in the Southern part or newer areas are having a lot of **** and AirB&B problems.

[MrChip72]

FL law short term rentals require a business license. Deed restrictions can block businesses from being run out of certain homes in T V. Villas are one type. NO BUSINESSES can be run out of a Villa. Its just that T V does not enforce.

That's not accurate. You cannot operate a service business with visiting clients or one involving inventory out of your home. It's worded this way in the deed. This is clearly to prevent people running nail salons, hair salons, or people selling stuff out of their garage.

Many people are running other non-intrusive businesses from their home in TV that no one seems to complain about.

[MrChip72]

Now, one could argue that STRs have people "coming and going", but you'd be hard pressed to use that argument in a legal sense...

In my experience, the renters seem to stay in more and go out less than the average Villager once they're settled in.

[Topspinmo]

Even renters rent out rooms here in villages.

[La lamy]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

I wouldn't be so concerned about short term rental, or try to have them banned. I bet all of us who own a place started out renting for a few months, in various areas, before we committed to buying a home. And don't we all say to newbies "explore a few places for a few months before buying"! Yes it's always ideal to have long term neighbours to make friends with, but short term rentals aren't necessarily a nuisance.

[golfing eagles]

This is one of the reasons we moved into an established neighborhood. Very few rentals and mostly full time residents. Anywhere North appears to be one of the best bets in this regard. Anywhere in the Southern part or newer areas are having a lot of **** and AirB&B problems.

And yet don't even think of putting a 6 inch garden gnome in your front yard.....:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: Overall, I'm willing to bet that most of would rather live next to a garden gnome than a revolving door motel with and endless variety of "occupants".

[golfing eagles]

I wouldn't be so concerned about short term rental, or try to have them banned. I bet all of us who own a place started out renting for a few months, in various areas, before we committed to buying a home. And don't we all say to newbies "explore a few places for a few months before buying"! Yes it's always ideal to have long term neighbours to make friends with, but short term rentals aren't necessarily a nuisance.

And most of the time they probably aren't-------until-----you get one next door to you. Here's a repost from another thread by someone who has 10 such STRs in their immediate neighborhood:

You stated you do not have strs in your neighborhood. Let me share my experience.
1. You wake up and trash has been put out when it is not collection day. Animals ripped open the bags and trash has littered your yard. Cars are blocking your driveway because the renters have guests. The renters dog is barking and woke you up early. There are arguments, whistling, shouting, doors slamming, loud engines that wake you up from a peaceful sleep. The renters are on the lanai naked. Their children are running around. I can go on!

2. You go on with your day. Come home and your driveway is blocked (again) or someone has parked on your lawn. Or, a renter knocks on your door asking you to resolve an issue they are having at the rented house. Or, they want to borrow a bike, or some golf clubs, or a pot or pan, or whatever! Or, their dog is barking loud. Or they need some information, or they want directions, or recommendations. Or their children are recklessly playing on the street. Some even ask to watch/feed their pets while they go to Disney.

3. You have a nice dinner, take a stroll on the square, come home and the renters are having a party. Loud and noisy. Or, they are drinkers and are talking loud, and using foul language. Or, they are having a loud argument. Or, their children are screaming and crying. Or, they are with their spouse getting it on in a loud fashion. Or they have entered your lawn to take a p#ss. Or the TV or music is blaring. Or their dog is barking. Or some think it is funny to howl at a full moon. I can go on!

So. It is my job to pick up the renter's trash, knock on the door and tell them to move their cars hoping they do not get beligerent with me(which most do), give out my belongings, go over to the house to assist with a problem, act as a concierge, reprimand their children and babysit their pets. Then, before I go to sleep, go over to the renters and tell them to keep the noise level down or I will call the police. Only to be told F#### off!

How is any of this my responsibility? Oh! Call the owner? Because that is the neighborly thing to do? Good luck with that! He is too busy playing golf and I am probably just overreacting. The action he takes? "Don't worry, they are only here for a few days. They will be gone before you know it, but thanks for letting me know." And, getting him to come over at night and quiet the neighbors or call the police? His answer. "I really don't find that necessary." He gets a good night sleep and I don't.

Enter a new renter- same results.

I have every right to demand the owner of his rental monitor his home. And, yes! 3 times a day! In the morning to pick up their trash, in the afternoon to make certain cars are not blocking driveways or to check if the renters need something, or if pets/children are out of hand. Then, once again, at night to check if there is loud noise and police may need to be called. If the renters were at a hotel, the hotel has staff and security to do this. If they are at an apartment building, staff and security is there, as well. Why shouldn't the owner of an STR have that responsibility?

Long term renters can be as bad. People who rent in the Villages are here to have a good time.They are not here to follow the rules of the community. Most do not even know the rules. You nicely tell them, and they respond with a F### Off!

There is a reason new laws have been enacted in NYC that address THESE SAME issues I am having. It is reasonable to believe people on vacation act the same way throughout the USA. Hopefully, the same laws will be enacted here in the Villages. Especially, the rule that states the owner must be present in the rental.

Note: If you do not have any renters where you live, please do not post in support of the STR owner. You have no idea what living next to a rental property is like. Reasonable people would not call others unreasonable if they have never experienced something. Thank you!

Also, do not come on this thread claiming to know a lot about this issue. Then go on to talk about Clearwater being grandfathered in, government zoning and land restrictions, mineral rights, Euclid vrs Ambler, laws dating back to 2003, Govenor Scott, etc.etc. You may have knowledge but what the heck does any of it have to do with STRS in the Villages? Last I looked, Desantis is our govenor, rules have changed, no one in the Villages sells their mineral rights, govt zoning and deed restrictions are two different things, could care less about Euclid vrs Ambler, and this is 2023 not 2003! If you want to talk about your knowledge on zoning and land restrictions then start a thread on that subject.

[JGibson]

It’s a shame there is such bias against renters. Like posted above, many if not most home owners rented before buying. We have rented maybe a dozen times a month or 2 at a time and I must admit we were really disappointed that residents were not more friendly. We absolutely loveThe Villages but at the time couldn’t buy for family reasons but the fact that the residents seemed so UNFRIENDLY made us delay our decision even more.. We were great renters and stayed in some beautiful homes. We tried to establish neighborhood friendships with no luck at all, very unfriendly place. It wasn’t until recently we realized there was this renter bias. Not fully understanding it sure gave us a bad impression. Think about it the next time you aren’t friendly and welcome a renter. Like us they may feel they are residents just waiting for the right time to buy. We probably would have a house in The Villages if residents would have been more friendly.

So I should be happy and friendly that my neighbor turned the house next to me into a motel.
Sure I just love new neighbors every week/month it has such a great neighborhood feel to it.

TV was never meant to be a time share or resort so yes the neighbors are not going to be that friendly.

[Pegasusprt]

Rentals have always been in TV and will always be here. If you don't want rentals next to you, move. The one thing Floridians hate is people moving to Florida and trying to change things. Florida is a tourist state.

[golfing eagles]

Rentals have always been in TV and will always be here. If you don't want rentals next to you, move. The one thing Floridians hate is people moving to Florida and trying to change things. Florida is a tourist state.

Hmmm.....

Everyone in Florida is a tourist and there are no retirement communities:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Care to rethink that post?

[oldtimes]

I wouldn't be so concerned about short term rental, or try to have them banned. I bet all of us who own a place started out renting for a few months, in various areas, before we committed to buying a home. And don't we all say to newbies "explore a few places for a few months before buying"! Yes it's always ideal to have long term neighbours to make friends with, but short term rentals aren't necessarily a nuisance.

I am opposed to daily rentals under any circumstance. As for regular rentals I don't mind if they are at least over 55. I did not move into an "over 55 retirement community" to live next to a house full of 20 yr olds. We have several rentals in our neighborhood that have been no problem at all until one became a by the night v r b o. We finally made the owner so miserable with our complaining that she sold the house. We are all praying that we don't get another.

[Justputt]

Thinking out loud - are not neighborhood driveway parties with loud music, street blocked off, many loud and drinking people a very similar situation to a short term rental issue? What about the neighbor that does not wish to participate in the driveway party. We have rec centers and town squares. I understood the driveway parties with COVID issue but why is this an acceptable situation now all the venues are reopened ?

I believe I read somewhere there is a noise ordinance with limits set to 25' (without a permit, I assume), and the offender can be cited. If they can be heard beyond 25', report them if it bothers you that much. It won't make you any friends, so I'd always trying asking them first.

[Justputt]

I understand the concerns, but I think I would be more bothered if I had just paid +/- $500k for a home and someone tried to tell what I could/couldn't do with my own home! The outside limits that require ARC okay are fine, but in my home.... no.

Know the ordinances regarding noise, etc. and use them judiciously when you feel you need to push a neighbor that rents. I don't care too much about renters as long as they aren't disruptive, but if they are and the owner is no help, use the system. Over the years and in many states, I would have gladly traded some owner neighbors for renters!!

[Bill14564]

I believe I read somewhere there is a noise ordinance with limits set to 25' (without a permit, I assume), and the offender can be cited. If they can be heard beyond 25', report them if it bothers you that much. It won't make you any friends, so I'd always trying asking them first.

I believe that ordinance has to do with music heard from cars.

25' is about half the distance across the inside of my home. My wife and I can talk at a normal volume from that distance and hear each other just fine. We all would be in violation just for talking if that was the actual ordinance.

[Cybersprings]

And most of the time they probably aren't-------until-----you get one next door to you. Here's a repost from another thread by someone who has 10 such STRs in their immediate neighborhood:

You stated you do not have strs in your neighborhood. Let me share my experience.
1. You wake up and trash has been put out when it is not collection day. Animals ripped open the bags and trash has littered your yard. Cars are blocking your driveway because the renters have guests. The renters dog is barking and woke you up early. There are arguments, whistling, shouting, doors slamming, loud engines that wake you up from a peaceful sleep. The renters are on the lanai naked. Their children are running around. I can go on!

2. You go on with your day. Come home and your driveway is blocked (again) or someone has parked on your lawn. Or, a renter knocks on your door asking you to resolve an issue they are having at the rented house. Or, they want to borrow a bike, or some golf clubs, or a pot or pan, or whatever! Or, their dog is barking loud. Or they need some information, or they want directions, or recommendations. Or their children are recklessly playing on the street. Some even ask to watch/feed their pets while they go to Disney.

3. You have a nice dinner, take a stroll on the square, come home and the renters are having a party. Loud and noisy. Or, they are drinkers and are talking loud, and using foul language. Or, they are having a loud argument. Or, their children are screaming and crying. Or, they are with their spouse getting it on in a loud fashion. Or they have entered your lawn to take a p#ss. Or the TV or music is blaring. Or their dog is barking. Or some think it is funny to howl at a full moon. I can go on!

So. It is my job to pick up the renter's trash, knock on the door and tell them to move their cars hoping they do not get beligerent with me(which most do), give out my belongings, go over to the house to assist with a problem, act as a concierge, reprimand their children and babysit their pets. Then, before I go to sleep, go over to the renters and tell them to keep the noise level down or I will call the police. Only to be told F#### off!

How is any of this my responsibility? Oh! Call the owner? Because that is the neighborly thing to do? Good luck with that! He is too busy playing golf and I am probably just overreacting. The action he takes? "Don't worry, they are only here for a few days. They will be gone before you know it, but thanks for letting me know." And, getting him to come over at night and quiet the neighbors or call the police? His answer. "I really don't find that necessary." He gets a good night sleep and I don't.

Enter a new renter- same results.

I have every right to demand the owner of his rental monitor his home. And, yes! 3 times a day! In the morning to pick up their trash, in the afternoon to make certain cars are not blocking driveways or to check if the renters need something, or if pets/children are out of hand. Then, once again, at night to check if there is loud noise and police may need to be called. If the renters were at a hotel, the hotel has staff and security to do this. If they are at an apartment building, staff and security is there, as well. Why shouldn't the owner of an STR have that responsibility?

Long term renters can be as bad. People who rent in the Villages are here to have a good time.They are not here to follow the rules of the community. Most do not even know the rules. You nicely tell them, and they respond with a F### Off!

There is a reason new laws have been enacted in NYC that address THESE SAME issues I am having. It is reasonable to believe people on vacation act the same way throughout the USA. Hopefully, the same laws will be enacted here in the Villages. Especially, the rule that states the owner must be present in the rental.

Note: If you do not have any renters where you live, please do not post in support of the STR owner. You have no idea what living next to a rental property is like. Reasonable people would not call others unreasonable if they have never experienced something. Thank you!

Also, do not come on this thread claiming to know a lot about this issue. Then go on to talk about Clearwater being grandfathered in, government zoning and land restrictions, mineral rights, Euclid vrs Ambler, laws dating back to 2003, Govenor Scott, etc.etc. You may have knowledge but what the heck does any of it have to do with STRS in the Villages? Last I looked, Desantis is our govenor, rules have changed, no one in the Villages sells their mineral rights, govt zoning and deed restrictions are two different things, could care less about Euclid vrs Ambler, and this is 2023 not 2003! If you want to talk about your knowledge on zoning and land restrictions then start a thread on that subject.

And again, that person took events that occurred across who knows how long and many different renters and described it as her every day life. Much of what she describes I don't want happening to me at all, some of it would not bother me at all, some of it is in no way limited to renters.

But just be honest. Describe things that occur to you and provide actual frequency to it, e.g. "just over the last year, this is what I have had to deal with (or whatever time period those events have occurred). If the problems are that bad, no exaggeration or hyperbole is required to make the problems felt. If you have to exaggerate them exponentially, then maybe the problem isn't that bad. My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate.

[Cybersprings]

Even renters rent out rooms here in villages.

That would be a problem for the owner. How does to whom the renter pays money affect you or anyone else (other than the owner who should have a clause forbidding subleases?

[golfing eagles]

And again, that person took events that occurred across who knows how long and many different renters and described it as her every day life. Much of what she describes I don't want happening to me at all, some of it would not bother me at all, some of it is in no way limited to renters.

But just be honest. Describe things that occur to you and provide actual frequency to it, e.g. "just over the last year, this is what I have had to deal with (or whatever time period those events have occurred). If the problems are that bad, no exaggeration or hyperbole is required to make the problems felt. If you have to exaggerate them exponentially, then maybe the problem isn't that bad. My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate.

OK, full disclosure, I have had absolutely no problem with it. All the homes that are in my neighborhood are $1 million+ properties and unlikely to be considered a good investment for STRs.

So now, honestly, why can't I empathize with fellow Villagers in the situation she described. Honestly, why does it have to be my personal experience to relate the angst of others? Honestly, even if she exaggerated, does that mean the problem is not real???

[oldtimes]

OK, full disclosure, I have had absolutely no problem with it. All the homes that are in my neighborhood are $1 million+ properties and unlikely to be considered a good investment for STRs.

So now, honestly, why can't I empathize with fellow Villagers in the situation she described. Honestly, why does it have to be my personal experience to relate the angst of others? Honestly, even if she exaggerated, does that mean the problem is not real???

All this person does is critique other people's posts, that is why I have them blocked.

[Cybersprings]

OK, full disclosure, I have had absolutely no problem with it. All the homes that are in my neighborhood are $1 million+ properties and unlikely to be considered a good investment for STRs.

So now, honestly, why can't I empathize with fellow Villagers in the situation she described. Honestly, why does it have to be my personal experience to relate the angst of others? Honestly, even if she exaggerated, does that mean the problem is not real???


Sorry if my post implied that you were not being honest. That was not my intent. You have every right (not that you need me to say that) to empathize and support and relate the angst of others. The less-than-honest was directed at the other person's post that you reposted in support of, and it being reposted without the (sort of) admission by the original poster that not all of that was in a typical day as described being conveyed also.

[Cybersprings]

All this person does is critique other people's posts, that is why I have them blocked.

Ouch. I might spend the rest of my day in my room crying.
And isn't that a critique of my posts?

Regardless, my point was 100% valid, even if people hate it when someone posts things they don't agree with.

[Cybersprings]

OK, full disclosure, I have had absolutely no problem with it. All the homes that are in my neighborhood are $1 million+ properties and unlikely to be considered a good investment for STRs.

So now, honestly, why can't I empathize with fellow Villagers in the situation she described. Honestly, why does it have to be my personal experience to relate the angst of others? Honestly, even if she exaggerated, does that mean the problem is not real???

Ahhhhhh. I just re-read my post and I clearly see why you took it that way.
The "just be honest and describe what you actually experience" was really meant to say "just be honest and describe what you actually experience or repost honest actual experiences of others." Generally speaking, if the problem is bad for you or others, extreme exaggeration should not be required to convey that.

My apologies for not being precise and clearly implying that you should not post because it didn't happen to you.

[golfing eagles]

Sorry if my post implied that you were not being honest. That was not my intent. You have every right (not that you need me to say that) to empathize and support and relate the angst of others. The less-than-honest was directed at the other person's post that you reposted in support of, and it being reposted without the (sort of) admission by the original poster that not all of that was in a typical day as described being conveyed also.

I thought it was pretty clear that her posts did not represent an average day for anyone with a STR nearby. But as a collage of snippets, I think it did convey the message about pitfalls of STRs. My only point is that the identity of TV is an active 55+ retirement community. Most of us expected that and bought into it. Yes, change happens, but a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of most. And it is completely unnecessary. History tells us that the developer has no trouble selling homes as quickly as he can build them, even without a single sale to "investors". Hopefully "the family" has the wisdom to realize that.

And there ARE things that can be done to halt this trend in its tracks. There are 2 posters on these threads that would have us believe that STRs are just fine, they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. WRONG. It has been done other places.
One of these 2 posters claimed that Orlando did not or could not require the property owner to be present and could rent out their entire property. WRONG. Here are the applicable rules for STR in Orlando, from the city website:

In the City of Orlando, a short term rental (STR) is a rental period of fewer than 30 days. Hosts can Apply Online for Home Sharing Registration.

The Home Sharing Ordinance has the following requirements:

*****During all guest stays, the host must be present. A resident does not have to be the property owner, but they must prove that it is their primary residence.
*****To operate as a short term rental, they must also acquire notarized permission from the landlord or owner.
*****Hosts can offer only a part of the property for rent. While STR operators are not permitted to rent out their entire house, they can rent up to half of the home’s total number of bedrooms.
*****Owners of duplexes are permitted to rent out the complete second unit provided it is of equal or smaller size and situated on the same development site.
*****Only a single STR booking at a time. The STR ordinance restricts hosts to just one booking at a time. They can have a maximum of two guests per room and no more than four non-family members at one time in a short term rental.
*****Home Owners Association’s approval is required. If applicable, hosts may also require approval from the HOA. If the property is a part of an HOA, the rental registration must be accompanied by a permission letter.
*****Proof of registration should be linked to any online advertising. Hosts must ensure that home-sharing registration proof is included with an online advertisement. The property’s online advertisement must reflect the ordinance’s criteria, such as one bedroom available for home sharing in a three-bedroom house.

So, yes there are things that can (and should be) done

[llaran]

I know at least one home purchased by the Villages for rental in a single-family home area. there was a time when it was clustered not anymore.

Also, when you purchase a home, you can do what you want with it.
Many people buy before retirement and rent it out until they are ready to move.


The homes used for the lifestyle visits are not sprinkled throughout a village and are located in one section. There are no residents in that cluster of villas, just those on a lifestyle visit or here for their design appointment.

The key as others have mentioned is to stay away from the villas and cottages as well as villages that are close to the town squares. If you want to see a VERY heavy rental village look at Richmond.

[golfing eagles]

I know at least one home purchased by the Villages for rental in a single-family home area. there was a time when it was clustered not anymore.

Also, when you purchase a home, you can do what you want with it.
Many people buy before retirement and rent it out until they are ready to move.

You really think that?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Try running hair salon from your home.

[Papa_lecki]

You really think that?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Try running hair salon from your home.

Or not cutting the grass, or putting landscaping in the set back or putting up a white cross.

[Randall55]

///And again, that person took events that occurred across who knows how long and many different renters and described it as her every day life. Much of what she describes I don't want happening to me at all, some of it would not bother me at all, some of it is in no way limited to renters.

But just be honest. Describe things that occur to you and provide actual frequency to it, e.g. "just over the last year, this is what I have had to deal with (or whatever time period those events have occurred). If the problems are that bad, no exaggeration or hyperbole is required to make the problems felt. If you have to exaggerate them exponentially, then maybe the problem isn't that bad. My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate. Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

I am guessing that each villa has 3 bedrooms. What if there are 4 people staying in the rental or 6? This would result in blocked driveways and streets as she stated. And, lots of trash left out when it is not collection day.

Have you had a newcomer in your neighborhood? Do they ask you for information, directions or recommendations? Do they ask to borrow something? Are they trying to be friendly? Not so bad if it is one newcomer, but over, over, and over again?

Problem with shouting, yelling, children screaming, I can see it! Vacationers tend to be loud. I can also see many drunks who just came back from the square. P#ssing on her lawn, howling at the moon, arguing getting it on,...Yeah! I can see that too! I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news. Why do you believe she is exaggerating?

I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.

[oldtimes]

You really think that?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Try running hair salon from your home.

That's an internal restriction so probably wouldn't be enforced anyway.

[Cybersprings]

I thought it was pretty clear that her posts did not represent an average day for anyone with a STR nearby.
I agree that your opinion is just as valid as mine, but I disagree with your opinion 100%.


But as a collage of snippets, I think it did convey the message about pitfalls of STRs. My only point is that the identity of TV is an active 55+ retirement community. Most of us expected that and bought into it. Yes, change happens, but a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of most. And it is completely unnecessary. History tells us that the developer has no trouble selling homes as quickly as he can build them, even without a single sale to "investors". Hopefully "the family" has the wisdom to realize that.
I think that a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of all. Where the disagreement comes is if that is what is ocurring. The problem is small (NOT THE EFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEM!] It has the potential for growing large as you state with hyperbole (shantytown? Really????) , and efforts to prevent that should be taken.



And there ARE things that can be done to halt this trend in its tracks. There are 2 posters on these threads that would have us believe that STRs are just fine, they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. WRONG. Please provide post numbers on this thread or the other where anyone has stated or implied that they are just fine, that they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. You won't find a single one.
You will find posts that attempt to refute the frequency of the issues, that relay personal experiences that have not been negative, that disagree with the methods that people want to use to address the problem. Why is it necessary to attribute positions to people that they have in no way conveyed just because they have not jumped on your bandwagon? Here is a recommendation. If you think someone on this thread has that position, ask them. Do you support STRs? Do you think there are no problems with STRs? Do you think nothing can be done about STRs? Stop saying that they have a position that they have clearly not stated! I have never commented on how things could be done. So I will assume that I know whom you are talking about on that (even though you attributed that both people). In that person's most recent post on the other thread, they listed several things that have been offered that they felt would not work and why. They offered the suggestion they thought WOULD work. You and everyone else has the right to disagree with their opinions. But stop saying they or anyone else has said nothing can be done. THAT is a lie.
It has been done other places.
One of these 2 posters claimed that Orlando did not or could not require the property owner to be present and could rent out their entire property. WRONG.
...
That statement is a lie. The person claimed that Orlando previously forbade STRs and was grandfathered under the state law which says they cannot be forbidden. They CORRECTLY asserted that the new regulations in Orlando were actually a relaxation of rules against STRs, not an increase. They stated that certain bodies in the villages do not have the authority to enact similar rules because it is outside the scope of their authority. They stated that other bodies in the villages do have the authority but posited that they do not have the motivation or the will. I guess I could be wrong on your lie, but please provide the number of the post that supports your statement.

Two people on this thread have not 100% supported the statements by you and the others. They have corrected the inaccuracies and offered differing opinions on the success of certain methods.

An intelligent person would thank these two for helping to sharpen and refine your statements and methods. IF (proverbial) you would listen to them, as you move forward in efforts to fix the problem, you would take the avenues with the most likely chance of success, and you would be putting forth arguments that do not contain lies, mistatements, or exaggerations.

[Two Bills]

If you live in a STR blighted area, get a few neighbors together, knock up a few BIG signs, and patrol outside the sales offices.
No one gives a **** about complaints on TOTV. but get prospective buyers asking questions, and maybe someone will listen.
Could be a fun day out.

[Bill14564]

I thought it was pretty clear that her posts did not represent an average day for anyone with a STR nearby. But as a collage of snippets, I think it did convey the message about pitfalls of STRs. My only point is that the identity of TV is an active 55+ retirement community. Most of us expected that and bought into it. Yes, change happens, but a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of most. And it is completely unnecessary. History tells us that the developer has no trouble selling homes as quickly as he can build them, even without a single sale to "investors". Hopefully "the family" has the wisdom to realize that.

...

In another post she related that these snippets happen over the winter with 3-month renters and over the summer. I get the impression that these snippets were collected over several years and that they involve ALL rentals and not just STRs.

[golfing eagles]

I agree that your opinion is just as valid as mine, but I disagree with your opinion 100%.


I think that a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of all. Where the disagreement comes is if that is what is ocurring. The problem is small (NOT THE EFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEM!] It has the potential for growing large as you state with hyperbole (shantytown? Really????) , and efforts to prevent that should be taken.

Please provide post numbers on this thread or the other where anyone has stated or implied that they are just fine, that they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. You won't find a single one.
You will find posts that attempt to refute the frequency of the issues, that relay personal experiences that have not been negative, that disagree with the methods that people want to use to address the problem. Why is it necessary to attribute positions to people that they have in no way conveyed just because they have not jumped on your bandwagon? Here is a recommendation. If you think someone on this thread has that position, ask them. Do you support STRs? Do you think there are no problems with STRs? Do you think nothing can be done about STRs? Stop saying that they have a position that they have clearly not stated! I have never commented on how things could be done. So I will assume that I know whom you are talking about on that (even though you attributed that both people). In that person's most recent post on the other thread, they listed several things that have been offered that they felt would not work and why. They offered the suggestion they thought WOULD work. You and everyone else has the right to disagree with their opinions. But stop saying they or anyone else has said nothing can be done. THAT is a lie.
That statement is a lie. The person claimed that Orlando previously forbade STRs and was grandfathered under the state law which says they cannot be forbidden. They CORRECTLY asserted that the new regulations in Orlando were actually a relaxation of rules against STRs, not an increase. They stated that certain bodies in the villages do not have the authority to enact similar rules because it is outside the scope of their authority. They stated that other bodies in the villages do have the authority but posited that they do not have the motivation or the will. I guess I could be wrong on your lie, but please provide the number of the post that supports your statement.

Two people on this thread have not 100% supported the statements by you and the others. They have corrected the inaccuracies and offered differing opinions on the success of certain methods.

An intelligent person would thank these two for helping to sharpen and refine your statements and methods. IF (proverbial) you would listen to them, as you move forward in efforts to fix the problem, you would take the avenues with the most likely chance of success, and you would be putting forth arguments that do not contain lies, mistatements, or exaggerations.

You are joking, right?

I mean you have to be kidding. You don't think those 2 posters are defending STR aggressively???? Get real.

[Randall55]

/// Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

I am guessing that each villa has 3 bedrooms. What if there are 4 people staying in the rental or 6? This would result in blocked driveways and streets as she stated. And, lots of trash left out when it is not collection day.

Have you had a newcomer in your neighborhood? Do they ask you for information, directions or recommendations? Do they ask to borrow something? Are they trying to be friendly? Not so bad if it is one newcomer, but over, over, and over again?

Problem with shouting, yelling, children screaming, I can see it! Vacationers tend to be loud. I can also see many drunks who just came back from the square. P#ssing on her lawn, howling at the moon, arguing getting it on,...Yeah! I can see that too! I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news. Why do you believe she is exaggerating?

I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.///

[Bill14564]

... There are 2 posters on these threads that would have us believe that STRs are just fine, they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. WRONG. ...

Just in case my remarks resemble one of those two posters....

I have little feelings for or against rentals of one day, one week, one month, one quarter, or one year. They are all the same to me. My concern, as I put into post #122 somewhere, is having government take away even more of my rights/freedoms/ability to do what I want. Whether it's the height of a flagpole, the color of a driveway, or the number of visitors I have in my home, I don't want the government interference. I agreed to some restrictions when I moved to Florida and more when I moved to the Villages but that's enough, no more.

Different complaints on here about STRs involve dogs, trash, kids, noise, and general existence. With the exception of general existence, where a resident wants to have the street to themselves and not be bothered by other people, none of those problems should have to be accepted. But at the same time, none of those problems are unique to renters (short term or long).

We don't have a law against loud music after 10PM when coming from a rental house, we have a law against loud music after 10PM. Similarly, we don't have the right to stop our neighbor from playing loud music at 3PM if he is a permanent resident and we don't have that right for rentals either. If a neighbor is violating an ordinance, inform the proper authorities, renter or not. We already have (too many) laws, use them.

If you want to change the laws regarding rentals, learn what can and cannot be done and how to do it. Demanding that the CDDs create a law to set a minimum duration for a rental is ridiculous. Ignoring the existing Florida law shows a lack of seriousness. Suggesting that guest passes only be given out to those staying more than 30 days is foolish. Implying that every STR is a problem and every Villager is suffering because of STRs is such an overly broad generalization that the rest of the statements can't be taken seriously. Take the time to learn what is possible and what has failed in the past - it will save a lot of time and frustration.

[Cybersprings]

Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?
This is SOOOO exhausting. IF ONE WOULD READ MY POSTS, you would see that I stated "My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate." That was in the post you responded to, not one of the many others where I admit that there are problems. Once again,[Point 1] someone is attributing to someone a statement or position that they did not make, then trying to argue with that. Because it is usually the same people, I am starting to think it is intentional. Can't argue with what I actually say, but they don't like me, so to argue with me they must make up things that I supposedly said and then argue with that, or merely insult me for posting at all.[/Point1]


I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news.
Yes and many of those things are done by Owner/Residents. The vast majoritiy of issues I have with the villages are with owner/residents and specifically dog owners. Should I start clamoring for them to be prohibited?


Why do you believe she is exaggerating?
Because she was and she admitted to taking what happened over a much longer period and describing it as if it was a typical day. It wasn't even any single day.


I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.

a. I never stated she was supposed to get them to check out their rentals. See point 1 of my post.
b. Some of the things I don't want to experience even 1 day. Again, I never claimed they weren't a problem. See point 1 of my post.
c. I am not ignoring how many renters she sees in one month. See point 1 of my post.
d. Things that wouldn't bother me:
1 The renters are on the lanai naked. I spend ZERO time looking into my neighbors lanai.
2. Their children are running around. I like seeing youth and vibrancy in the villages. I intentionally go to church outside of the villages because I have to be honest, seeing only us old people and all the ravages that time has done on many of our bodies/health every day weighs me down. I am energized when I see young families. I am energized when I see my grandkids running around in my back yard. I have neighbors who have a very small back yard and I have a large one for the villages. I have seen them attempt to keep the kids playing only on their property. I have went over, introduced myself to the kids and grandkids, thanked them for their courtesy and then INVITED them to use my yard to play.
3. You wake up and trash has been put out when it is not collection day. This has happened on many occasions when neighbors will be leaving for a trip the a day or so before trash day. This hurts me how????
4. Animals ripped open the bags and trash has littered your yard. This would AND DOES bother me. But the only animals we have in our neighbor hood are dogs, cats and alligators. See my earlier point on pets.
5. Or they need some information, or they want directions, or recommendations. I like people. I like interacting with people. I like helping and sharing when I can. I don't feel like I go out of my way to help as many people in this life as I should, so when they come to me with an opportunity to do so, and all it takes is some information or recommendation, I am thrilled.

There are others. But since I really don't think the question was sincere or that that what I wrote will actually be read rather than intentionally misconstrued, I'll stop with these.

[tophcfa]

No one gives a **** about complaints on TOTV. but get prospective buyers asking questions, and maybe someone will listen.

Exactly

[golfing eagles]

Just in case my remarks resemble one of those two posters....

I have little feelings for or against rentals of one day, one week, one month, one quarter, or one year. They are all the same to me. My concern, as I put into post #122 somewhere, is having government take away even more of my rights/freedoms/ability to do what I want. Whether it's the height of a flagpole, the color of a driveway, or the number of visitors I have in my home, I don't want the government interference. I agreed to some restrictions when I moved to Florida and more when I moved to the Villages but that's enough, no more.

Different complaints on here about STRs involve dogs, trash, kids, noise, and general existence. With the exception of general existence, where a resident wants to have the street to themselves and not be bothered by other people, none of those problems should have to be accepted. But at the same time, none of those problems are unique to renters (short term or long).

We don't have a law against loud music after 10PM when coming from a rental house, we have a law against loud music after 10PM. Similarly, we don't have the right to stop our neighbor from playing loud music at 3PM if he is a permanent resident and we don't have that right for rentals either. If a neighbor is violating an ordinance, inform the proper authorities, renter or not. We already have (too many) laws, use them.

If you want to change the laws regarding rentals, learn what can and cannot be done and how to do it. Demanding that the CDDs create a law to set a minimum duration for a rental is ridiculous. Ignoring the existing Florida law shows a lack of seriousness. Suggesting that guest passes only be given out to those staying more than 30 days is foolish. Implying that every STR is a problem and every Villager is suffering because of STRs is such an overly broad generalization that the rest of the statements can't be taken seriously. Take the time to learn what is possible and what has failed in the past - it will save a lot of time and frustration.

You're 100% correct, except........

Who is MORE LIKELY to be playing loud music or having a drunken party after 10PM, or any of the other complaints----your neighbor of the last 10 years or a renter staying 3 days?????

It is not a level playing field. Yes, a long term resident or renter can pose the same problems as a STR, BUT IT IS FAR LESS LIKELY. (and yes, I can already see one contrarian getting ready to ask for the statistics on that assertion, but I think we all intuitively know it to be true). I don't care for government intervention or restrictions either, but some of these "freedoms" are what we give up by agreeing to move into a DEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY. Compared to some other deed restricted communities, some owners here are getting away with murder. (No, I don't have statistics on that either, but to call it "a lie" is way over the line)

Now, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in. Bottom line, if we adopted Orlando's CURRENT STR restrictions, it would probably end the STR problem here. And no one should claim it CAN'T be done, since they already did it.

[Bill14564]

You're 100% correct, except........

Who is MORE LIKELY to be playing loud music or having a drunken party after 10PM, or any of the other complaints----your neighbor of the last 10 years or a renter staying 3 days?????

It is not a level playing field. Yes, a long term resident or renter can pose the same problems as a STR, BUT IT IS FAR LESS LIKELY. (and yes, I can already see one contrarian getting ready to ask for the statistics on that assertion, but I think we all intuitively know it to be true). I don't care for government intervention or restrictions either, but some of these "freedoms" are what we give up by agreeing to move into a DEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY. Compared to some other deed restricted communities, some owners here are getting away with murder. (No, I don't have statistics on that either, but to call it "a lie" is way over the line)

Now, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in. Bottom line, if we adopted Orlando's CURRENT STR restrictions, it would probably end the STR problem here. And no one should claim it CAN'T be done, since they already did it.

I would say it is just as likely that a particular renter would be playing loud music. But to your point, the more times you roll the dice the better your chances of rolling a seven.

I acknowledged that I accepted the restrictions that came with the Villages. There is no question that there is a section in the document that allows for amendments. Things can change, the restrictions can change, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

Yep, things can change and STRs can be affected. But can we at least stay on the path of realistic possibilities and not stray into the "if I were god and the state of Florida didn't already have these laws on the books" kind of arguments?

[golfing eagles]

I would say it is just as likely that a particular renter would be playing loud music. But to your point, the more times you roll the dice the better your chances of rolling a seven.

I acknowledged that I accepted the restrictions that came with the Villages. There is no question that there is a section in the document that allows for amendments. Things can change, the restrictions can change, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

Yep, things can change and STRs can be affected. But can we at least stay on the path of realistic possibilities and not stray into the "if I were god and the state of Florida didn't already have these laws on the books" kind of arguments?

So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

[Cybersprings]

You are joking, right?

I mean you have to be kidding. You don't think those 2 posters are defending STR aggressively???? Get real.

I am not joking. I am not kidding.
If I am one of the 2, then I know that you are 100% wrong and that you have not bothered to read my posts with the intent to understand what I was saying.
If one of the 2 is Bill14xx, then I know that you are 100% wrong because I actually took the time to read his posts, not make up positions for him.
If one of the 2 is Brian..., then I don't know what his real feelings or motivations are because he hasn't expressed them, but I do know that you are 100% wrong on what his posts have actually stated and not what you and others keeping making up and attributing to posters.

So who is left?
I have asked, who do you think supports STRs. You (I think) responded that that violates the rules because we are not to address posters directly. I think that is an absolute copout. Well over half of the post direct their point directly to someone or about someone. Merely stating that I think these 2 posters have agressively defended STRs is not a violation, or not even close to other posts as far as violation. The problem with doing that though is that you know their is ZERO basis for the position, IF YOU READ WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WRITING.
I think this is the fourth time or fifth time I will ask.
PLEASE PROVIDE THE POST NUMBER OF THE POST IN THIS THREAD OR THE OTHER WHERE SOMEONE SAID THEY WERE IN SUPPORT OF STRS OR DEFENDING THEM.
There are over 500 posts between the 2 threads and has been correctly stated, the vast majority of people posting are against STRs. Sure one of you can find one post that actually defends STRs or supports STRs.

[Bill14564]

So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

That's going to take some time to research but it's an interesting question. (though you will understand if my heart isn't into finding the answer... kind of reminds me of a joke involving a guillotine and an engineer)

I was referring more to the BoCC eliminates STRs or the CDD writes a law kind of ideas.

[Cybersprings]

So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

I know I am going to get blasted by MM for commenting on Orlando, if she hasn't already blocked me, but...

AS STATED IN COPIOUS POSTS and one directly in response to you, Orlando previously PROHIBITED STRs and was grandfathered when the state law was passed. The rules put in by Orlando were actually lessening restricions on STRs and were therefore allowed under FL law.

[Cybersprings]

You are joking, right?

I mean you have to be kidding. You don't think those 2 posters are defending STR aggressively???? Get real.

And that is the full extent of what you got from the post. hmmm.
Clearly the last part of my post would not apply to you.

[golfing eagles]

I am not joking. I am not kidding.
If I am one of the 2, then I know that you are 100% wrong and that you have not bothered to read my posts with the intent to understand what I was saying.
If one of the 2 is Bill14xx, then I know that you are 100% wrong because I actually took the time to read his posts, not make up positions for him.
If one of the 2 is Brian..., then I don't know what his real feelings or motivations are because he hasn't expressed them, but I do know that you are 100% wrong on what his posts have actually stated and not what you and others keeping making up and attributing to posters.

So who is left?
I have asked, who do you think supports STRs. You (I think) responded that that violates the rules because we are not to address posters directly. I think that is an absolute copout. Well over half of the post direct their point directly to someone or about someone. Merely stating that I think these 2 posters have agressively defended STRs is not a violation, or not even close to other posts as far as violation. The problem with doing that though is that you know their is ZERO basis for the position, IF YOU READ WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WRITING.
I think this is the fourth time or fifth time I will ask.
PLEASE PROVIDE THE POST NUMBER OF THE POST IN THIS THREAD OR THE OTHER WHERE SOMEONE SAID THEY WERE IN SUPPORT OF STRS OR DEFENDING THEM.
There are over 500 posts between the 2 threads and has been correctly stated, the vast majority of people posting are against STRs. Sure one of you can find one post that actually defends STRs or supports STRs.

First of all, you are not one of the two

Second, IF you read all the posts, there is no way on God's green Earth that you could possibly walk away with the take home message that those posts were anything other than supporting STRs. It is so incredibly obvious to not only me that others have suggested that these two are STR owners. What are you missing?????

[golfing eagles]

I know I am going to get blasted by MM for commenting on Orlando, if she hasn't already blocked me, but...

AS STATED IN COPIOUS POSTS and one directly in response to you, Orlando previously PROHIBITED STRs and was grandfathered when the state law was passed. The rules put in by Orlando were actually lessening restricions on STRs and were therefore allowed under FL law.

Are you saying that THE ONLY REASON that Orlando's STR restrictions are permitted under Florida law is because their previous restrictions were more restrictive????? I'm pretty sure the law does not work that way. (The DA won't prosecute me for stealing $5,000 from a liquor store because the last time I stole $10,000?)

I have to believe that the Orlando restrictions on STRs stand on their own as legal, and therefore could be adopted elsewhere.

[Cybersprings]

Are you saying that THE ONLY REASON that Orlando's STR restrictions are permitted under Florida law is because their previous restrictions were more restrictive????? I'm pretty sure the law does not work that way. (The DA won't prosecute me for stealing $5,000 from a liquor store because the last time I stole $10,000?)

I was saying that. but actually I was stealing from someone else's post. And i could be wrong. But that is one of the most ridulous comparisons I have ever read on TOTV.
The reasonable comparison for your example would be that there is a local law against stealing more than $5,000 from a liquor store.
The state then passes a law stating that no locality can make any new laws about stealing from a liquor store. But localities that already have restrictions are grandfathered.
Then the locality modifies their law to state that you can't steal more than $10,000 from liquor stores. That law is ok even though it is a new law because it is not as strict as the previous law that was grandfathered. That is EXACTLY how the law works, except your example is ludicrous.
I really, really don't know why that is such a hard concept to grasp for someone who wrote most of the medical procedures we undergo and most of the papers that we read about medicine on line.


I have to believe that the Orlando restrictions on STRs stand on their own as legal, and therefore could be adopted elsewhere.

That is completely different point. You may be 100% right.

[Cybersprings]

First of all, you are not one of the two

Second, IF you read all the posts, there is no way on God's green Earth that you could possibly walk away with the take home message that those posts were anything other than supporting STRs. It is so incredibly obvious to not only me that others have suggested that these two are STR owners. What are you missing?????

What makes it so obvious??? Just because they refute your ideas does not make them STR owners. That is what I have been doing, and I have made it clear that I am not an STR owner nor do I support them. What different points did they make that makes it obvious. It is like saying someone has a fever and a fast heartbeat, it is obvious they are near death from septicemia. I would prefer to not have a physician that would make such a leap.

[Cybersprings]

You're 100% correct, except........

...

Now, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in. Bottom line, if we adopted Orlando's CURRENT STR restrictions, it would probably end the STR problem here. And no one should claim it CAN'T be done, since they already did it.

I find it extremely hilarious (sorry if I don't put multiple ROFL emojis to try to make sure you know that I am laughing at you]) that someone would post

[Originally Posted by golfing eagles]
So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

and also state, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in.

So someone wants to know how it can happen, but they don't want you to use words or precise words. I wonder if they would prefer pictures drawn with crayons. If so, I am honestly not sure how to do that on TOTV.

[golfing eagles]

I was saying that. but actually I was stealing from someone else's post. And i could be wrong. But that is one of the most ridulous comparisons I have ever read on TOTV.
The reasonable comparison for your example would be that there is a local law against stealing more than $5,000 from a liquor store.
The state then passes a law stating that no locality can make any new laws about stealing from a liquor store. But localities that already have restrictions are grandfathered.
Then the locality modifies their law to state that you can't steal more than $10,000 from liquor stores. That law is ok even though it is a new law because it is not as strict as the previous law that was grandfathered. That is EXACTLY how the law works, except your example is ludicrous.
I really, really don't know why that is such a hard concept to grasp for someone who wrote most of the medical procedures we undergo and most of the papers that we read about medicine on line.



That is completely different point. You may be 100% right.

Believe me, I get it. But MOST?????? Who stated that?????? And you're the one who criticizes other for making up statements from posts. MOST????? Maybe 1/10,000 of 1 percent, if that.

[KenLee100]

We are purchasing in Dabney and are very excited! There is a major concern though. I have read some threads here and we know we don’t want VRBOs or short term rentals near us. Are there any places that guarantee this in the villages? We would like to take care of our new home and don’t necessarily want to to step into that kind of a mess. Any help would be appreciated.

There have been isolated problems. Renting to college kids on spring break or large families can cause friction.
The developer sells new houses. That is their concern. We have been here for two years without a problem.
Owners should screen prospective tenants and let them know that this is a retirement community and that we roll up the sidewalks at 9 p.m.

You have the right by law to "Quiet and Peaceful Enjoyment" of your property.
That said, if there is a problem landlord, I would notify them in writing that they are maintaining a "Nuisance House" and if they continue to rent to tenants who do not comply, they will face legal action.

[Cybersprings]

Believe me, I get it. But MOST?????? Who stated that?????? And you're the one who criticizes other for making up statements from posts. MOST????? Maybe 1/10,000 of 1 percent, if that.

Valid point. Those were NOT the word you used. Guilty. But I think (without finding the post) that you stated odds are if you are googling something, my research is what you will quote and if you go into the doctor, odds are the procedures they follow will be one I developed.
I am not sure how many you would have to have published or procedures developed that would make the odds such that those things occur. But my guess would be somewhere far higher than 1/10,000 of 1 percent. All my rambing aside, while I didn't actually attribute that statement to you, there was enough of a sarcastic insinuation to take that from what I said.
So. Good Catch. Valid Point. I am guilty. Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry for doing that.

[golfing eagles]

Valid point. Those were NOT the word you used. Guilty. But I think (without finding the post) that you stated odds are if you are googling something, my research is what you will quote and if you go into the doctor, odds are the procedures they follow will be one I developed.
I am not sure how many you would have to have published or procedures developed that would make the odds such that those things occur. But my guess would be somewhere far higher than 1/10,000 of 1 percent. All my rambing aside, while I didn't actually attribute that statement to you, there was enough of a sarcastic insinuation to take that from what I said.
So. Good Catch. Valid Point. I am guilty. Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry for doing that.

Nope, you're still doing it----ODDS ARE??????? Didn't post that either.

Here is the excerpt from the post you are bastardizing: (post #31 from the Epley maneuver thread if you want to fact check):

....As far as "having a degree and being retired" goes, I think my career is a bit more than that. For all anyone knows, when they play Dr. Google they may be quoting me from the content that I myself have written. When they need inpatient medical care, they may be receiving treatment under protocols that I have written.

In the English language I learned, there are light years in distance between "odds are" and "may be" Please don't try to make me look like something I'm not.

[Cybersprings]

Nope, you're still doing it----ODDS ARE??????? Didn't post that either.

Here is the excerpt from the post you are bastardizing: (post #31 from the Epley maneuver thread if you want to fact check):

....As far as "having a degree and being retired" goes, I think my career is a bit more than that. For all anyone knows, when they play Dr. Google they may be quoting me from the content that I myself have written. When they need inpatient medical care, they may be receiving treatment under protocols that I have written.

In the English language I learned, there are light years in distance between "odds are" and "may be" Please don't try to make me look like something I'm not.

Nope. Wasn't still doing it. I admitted I didn't look up your post, and stated what I thought you had said. You are correct in that I got it wrong.
Apologies again for getting it wrong.

I will search through your posts though and see if I can find where you admit that you attributed to someone a position or statement they didn't make. I might be looking for a long LONG time. Because when you are called on it, you say people are parsing words or they may not have said it but it is obvious that's what they meant.

I get it. Many are tired of reading my posts and don't like me (virtually). But I hope that there are good people out there who can see the differences in peoples' post. But, as I said in another post elsewhere, unmet expectations do not lead to positive emotions (so you need to manage your expectations and hopes).

[Cybersprings]

Nope, you're still doing it----ODDS ARE??????? Didn't post that either.

Here is the excerpt from the post you are bastardizing: (post #31 from the Epley maneuver thread if you want to fact check):

....As far as "having a degree and being retired" goes, I think my career is a bit more than that. For all anyone knows, when they play Dr. Google they may be quoting me from the content that I myself have written. When they need inpatient medical care, they may be receiving treatment under protocols that I have written.

In the English language I learned, there are light years in distance between "odds are" and "may be" Please don't try to make me look like something I'm not.

If what you think I was trying to make you look like was arrogant, then fair statement. I should use what you actually say if I want to make that point. I was actually saying, for someone as smart and accomplished as you, the very simple point that was made over and over should have been easier to understand. If you are not smart and accomplished, my apologies for trying to make you look like that.

[golfing eagles]

Nope. Wasn't still doing it. I admitted I didn't look up your post, and stated what I thought you had said. You are correct in that I got it wrong.
Apologies again for getting it wrong.

I will search through your posts though and see if I can find where you admit that you attributed to someone a position or statement they didn't make. I might be looking for a long LONG time. Because when you are called on it, you say people are parsing words or they may not have said it but it is obvious that's what they meant.

I get it. Many are tired of reading my posts and don't like me (virtually). But I hope that there are good people out there who can see the differences in peoples' post. But, as I said in another post elsewhere, unmet expectations do not lead to positive emotions (so you need to manage your expectations and hopes).

Psychic as well????

Look, I get it, and nobody's perfect. The problem is that you kind of set yourself up as the self appointed guardian of ensuring factual posts. That's a tough role to fulfill and when you screw up everyone is going to point it out, especially on TOTV--America's friendliest social medium:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Best not to be so literal and give a little latitude.
Look, I do the same thing when somebody posts some medical nonsense---and I justify it by knowing I'm preventing the dissemination of erroneous information. At least I get the benefit of a good laugh when someone wants to argue the point because they "googled it" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

If what you think I was trying to make you look like was arrogant, then fair statement. I should use what you actually say if I want to make that point. I was actually saying, for someone as smart and accomplished as you, the very simple point that was made over and over should have been easier to understand. If you are not smart and accomplished, my apologies for trying to make you look like that.

Good one---love it :bigbow:

[JMintzer]

And yet don't even think of putting a 6 inch garden gnome in your front yard.....:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: Overall, I'm willing to bet that most of would rather live next to a garden gnome than a revolving door motel with and endless variety of "occupants".

Well, the "Clip Board Commandos" don't have a lot of STRs in their neighborhoods, so they have to find something "something" to complain about... :icon_wink:

[JMintzer]

And most of the time they probably aren't-------until-----you get one next door to you. Here's a repost from another thread by someone who has 10 such STRs in their immediate neighborhood:

You stated you do not have strs in your neighborhood. Let me share my experience.
1. You wake up and trash has been put out when it is not collection day. Animals ripped open the bags and trash has littered your yard. Cars are blocking your driveway because the renters have guests. The renters dog is barking and woke you up early. There are arguments, whistling, shouting, doors slamming, loud engines that wake you up from a peaceful sleep. The renters are on the lanai naked. Their children are running around. I can go on!

2. You go on with your day. Come home and your driveway is blocked (again) or someone has parked on your lawn. Or, a renter knocks on your door asking you to resolve an issue they are having at the rented house. Or, they want to borrow a bike, or some golf clubs, or a pot or pan, or whatever! Or, their dog is barking loud. Or they need some information, or they want directions, or recommendations. Or their children are recklessly playing on the street. Some even ask to watch/feed their pets while they go to Disney.

3. You have a nice dinner, take a stroll on the square, come home and the renters are having a party. Loud and noisy. Or, they are drinkers and are talking loud, and using foul language. Or, they are having a loud argument. Or, their children are screaming and crying. Or, they are with their spouse getting it on in a loud fashion. Or they have entered your lawn to take a p#ss. Or the TV or music is blaring. Or their dog is barking. Or some think it is funny to howl at a full moon. I can go on!

So. It is my job to pick up the renter's trash, knock on the door and tell them to move their cars hoping they do not get beligerent with me(which most do), give out my belongings, go over to the house to assist with a problem, act as a concierge, reprimand their children and babysit their pets. Then, before I go to sleep, go over to the renters and tell them to keep the noise level down or I will call the police. Only to be told F#### off!

How is any of this my responsibility? Oh! Call the owner? Because that is the neighborly thing to do? Good luck with that! He is too busy playing golf and I am probably just overreacting. The action he takes? "Don't worry, they are only here for a few days. They will be gone before you know it, but thanks for letting me know." And, getting him to come over at night and quiet the neighbors or call the police? His answer. "I really don't find that necessary." He gets a good night sleep and I don't.

Enter a new renter- same results.

I have every right to demand the owner of his rental monitor his home. And, yes! 3 times a day! In the morning to pick up their trash, in the afternoon to make certain cars are not blocking driveways or to check if the renters need something, or if pets/children are out of hand. Then, once again, at night to check if there is loud noise and police may need to be called. If the renters were at a hotel, the hotel has staff and security to do this. If they are at an apartment building, staff and security is there, as well. Why shouldn't the owner of an STR have that responsibility?

Long term renters can be as bad. People who rent in the Villages are here to have a good time.They are not here to follow the rules of the community. Most do not even know the rules. You nicely tell them, and they respond with a F### Off!

There is a reason new laws have been enacted in NYC that address THESE SAME issues I am having. It is reasonable to believe people on vacation act the same way throughout the USA. Hopefully, the same laws will be enacted here in the Villages. Especially, the rule that states the owner must be present in the rental.

Note: If you do not have any renters where you live, please do not post in support of the STR owner. You have no idea what living next to a rental property is like. Reasonable people would not call others unreasonable if they have never experienced something. Thank you!

Also, do not come on this thread claiming to know a lot about this issue. Then go on to talk about Clearwater being grandfathered in, government zoning and land restrictions, mineral rights, Euclid vrs Ambler, laws dating back to 2003, Govenor Scott, etc.etc. You may have knowledge but what the heck does any of it have to do with STRS in the Villages? Last I looked, Desantis is our govenor, rules have changed, no one in the Villages sells their mineral rights, govt zoning and deed restrictions are two different things, could care less about Euclid vrs Ambler, and this is 2023 not 2003! If you want to talk about your knowledge on zoning and land restrictions then start a thread on that subject.

I would wager that the person who posted that would ask "Things than never happened for $600, Alex" on Jeopardy

[JMintzer]

I believe that ordinance has to do with music heard from cars.

25' is about half the distance across the inside of my home. My wife and I can talk at a normal volume from that distance and hear each other just fine. We all would be in violation just for talking if that was the actual ordinance.

You mean I can have my wife cited if she complains to me in my own home? Sweet!

[JMintzer]

All this person does is critique other people's posts, that is why I have them blocked.

Then how did you read their post? :confused:

[JMintzer]

I know at least one home purchased by the Villages for rental in a single-family home area. there was a time when it was clustered not anymore.

Also, when you purchase a home, you can do what you want with it.
Many people buy before retirement and rent it out until they are ready to move.

TV actually purchased a home to rent out?

I find that hard to believe...

The more likely scenario is that home was never sold and is still part of what they hold back to use for their Lifestyle Visits...

[Cybersprings]

Then how did you read their post? :confused:

Since I am the person blocked, I was going to ask the same question, then I realized that the post to which he repsonded had the quote of my post embedded. Blocking someone apparently does not block the quoting of them....I think.

[JMintzer]

/// Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

I am guessing that each villa has 3 bedrooms. What if there are 4 people staying in the rental or 6? This would result in blocked driveways and streets as she stated. And, lots of trash left out when it is not collection day.

You're assuming that all 10 rentals are STRs.

Our dog watcher is on her 3rd home since we found her. She and her husband rent for a year (longer if possible), and then are typically told that their lease is not being renewed because the owners are now moving in...

Why they don't simply buy? I don't know. Maybe their pension affords them the ability to rent but not to buy? But that's none of my business. They are great people who would make great neighbors...

[JMintzer]

Since I am the person blocked, I was going to ask the same question, then I realized that the post to which he repsonded had the quote of my post embedded. Blocking someone apparently does not block the quoting of them....I think.

Yet they responded to GE... Go figure...

Funny, I still respond to the posts of people I know have blocked me. Not because I think they'll see the response, but to correct the nonsense they post...

[Cybersprings]

Psychic as well????

Look, I get it, and nobody's perfect. The problem is that you kind of set yourself up as the self appointed guardian of ensuring factual posts. That's a tough role to fulfill and when you screw up everyone is going to point it out, especially on TOTV--America's friendliest social medium:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Best not to be so literal and give a little latitude.
Look, I do the same thing when somebody posts some medical nonsense---and I justify it by knowing I'm preventing the dissemination of erroneous information. At least I get the benefit of a good laugh when someone wants to argue the point because they "googled it" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I don't think I set myself up by attempting to be the guardian of ensuring factual posts. I intentionally set myself up by asking on multiple threads to point out where I am wrong, just don't make up stuff I said and point that out as wrong. I welcome being corrected. Making mistakes does not make you a bad person or reduce your worth. I have Nno issue with you or anyone else pointing it out. I admitted it, apologized for it and then got it wrong again. I then admitted I got it wrong again and apologized.
Can you say the same? When it is pointed out to you, you ignore it and find a separate point to make. I think that is telling.
If someone googles it, and they quote Doctors, peer-reviewed studies, etc. Is your opinion always more correct? If so, what is your source of information that no one else in the world has? (I know, your experience is something that no one else has. they may have more of their own experience, but no one has yours. IF that is what you point to, please explain why your experience is better than everyone else's.) And if someone said they googled something, and it was something you published as that MAY happen, would it still be non-sense?

[JMintzer]

I get it. Many are tired of reading my posts and don't like me (virtually). But I hope that there are good people out there who can see the differences in peoples' post. But, as I said in another post elsewhere, unmet expectations do not lead to positive emotions (so you need to manage your expectations and hopes).

Don't sell yourself short... The probably don't like you in real life, either... :p:loco::p


P.S. I KEEED, I KEEED! Most would most likely enjoy a beer and conversation with you... I know I would...

[oldtimes]

Then how did you read their post? :confused:

Have I responded to anything since then?

[golfing eagles]

I don't think I set myself up by attempting to be the guardian of ensuring factual posts. I intentionally set myself up by asking on multiple threads to point out where I am wrong, just don't make up stuff I said and point that out as wrong. I welcome being corrected. Making mistakes does not make you a bad person or reduce your worth. I have Nno issue with you or anyone else pointing it out. I admitted it, apologized for it and then got it wrong again. I then admitted I got it wrong again and apologized.
Can you say the same? When it is pointed out to you, you ignore it and find a separate point to make. I think that is telling.
If someone googles it, and they quote Doctors, peer-reviewed studies, etc. Is your opinion always more correct? If so, what is your source of information that no one else in the world has? (I know, your experience is something that no one else has. they may have more of their own experience, but no one has yours. IF that is what you point to, please explain why your experience is better than everyone else's.) And if someone said they googled something, and it was something you published as that MAY happen, would it still be non-sense?

You still don't get it. You are under the same delusion as many----that somehow "googling" something is the equivalent of 11 years of medical education and 40 years of experience. Heck, why bother having doctors at all---everyone can just "google" their problem.

Let's try this another way: I want to know about string theory so I google it. I could read several theoretical physics journals on the subject, but I probably wouldn't understand a word they were writing. So I have to go to a site or a journal that "dumbs it down" for me, but of course a lot gets lost in the translation. So now I know they postulate 27 spatial and 2 temporal dimensions on a "string" the length of Planck's constant. So now I have an understanding equal to Stephen Hawkins? And worse, I think I can get in a debate with Hawkins with my new found "knowledge"

Why is my "opinion" more correct----first of all, it is not "an opinion" it is a factual knowledge base and an understanding of how things work---and you don't understand those things from a google search. And my experience is not better than "everyone" else's, there are physicians who know more than I do. But there are few if any amateurs that qualify.

You seem fairly intelligent, so why are you being so obtuse when you have to know I'm right?

[Normal]

Maybe there IS a solution to the AirBnB problem most have overlooked? The Villages did build a neighborhood after 2011 and 2014 that didn’t permit rentals, all are prohibited!

There is a way to stop the madness, or are their rules illegal?

[Cybersprings]

Don't sell yourself short... The probably don't like you in real life, either... :p:loco::p


P.S. I KEEED, I KEEED! Most would most likely enjoy a beer and conversation with you... I know I would...
I do appreciate a good jab. And I too would enjoy a beer With you

[GizmoWhiskers]

That is not how the restrictions read. Words matter.
Yes, words matter and FL law requires business lic for some STRs. The words are right. Villa deed restrictions prohibit businesses being run out of them. Perhaps researching those words in that order is necessary. Put the words in a bowl and eat them as a salad if they are more appealing as empty calories.

[BrianL99]

Yes, words matter and FL law requires business lic for STRs. The words are right. Villa deed restrictions prohibit businesses being run out of them. Perhaps researching those words in that order is necessary. Put the words in a bowl and eat them as a salad if they are more appealing calories.


You need to re-read the Deed Restrictions. Some may prohibit any old business from being run out of a home, but most do not. As someone else reminded you, words matter ... exact wording.

[BrianL99]

Maybe there IS a solution to the AirBnB problem most have overlooked? The Villages did build a neighborhood after 2011 and 2014 that didn’t permit rentals, all are prohibited!

There is a way to stop the madness, or are their rules illegal?

The rules are perfectly legal, but unrelated to Florida State Law in that respect.

"Deed Restrictions" are completely distinct from Zoning Regulations ... apples and oranges.

A Deed Restriction can prohibit you from painting your house red or purple. A seller can restrict what you can do with what he/she sells you and doesn't (generally) need a reason, nor even be reasonable. The difference being, you can elect not to buy a piece of property, if you don't like the restrictions the Seller wants to impose. The only restrictions that can't be enforced, are those that violate public interest. Many home deeds in the 40's & 50's, prohibited people from selling their homes to Negros, Jews, anyone who has spent time in a mental institution ... there were all sorts of prohibitions. They have been negated by anti-discrimination laws.

A Law cannot prohibit you from painting your house red or purple, unless the state can somehow show there's a valid reason, that's in the public interest.

At a lake I live on, there's currently pressure to outlaw using "red outdoor lights" in your yard. Sounds ridiculous, right? It's distracting for boaters navigating at night and there have been several boating accidents because of the confusion. Valid reason and in the public interest.

[GizmoWhiskers]

That is not how the restrictions read. Words matter.
District 12 Kate Villas:

Article V USE RESTRICTIONS

"Section 2. No business of any kind shall be conducted on any residence with the exception of the business of Developer and the transferees of Developer in developing and selling all of the Homesites as provided herein. "

FL DIVISION OF PREFESSIONAL REGULATION (DBPR)

"Do I need a license for my rental?
If renting rooms: Renting a single room or rooms other than the whole unit is not classified as a public lodging and would not require a license from DBPR, Division of Hotels and Restaurants. Please be advised your business may still be subject to city, county or other local authority jurisdiction.

If renting the entire unit: Yes, if you are renting an entire unit more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less, or if it’s advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented to guests."

What kind of dressing would one like on their word salad, lol?

[GizmoWhiskers]

You need to re-read the Deed Restrictions. Some may prohibit any old business from being run out of a home, but most do not. As someone else reminded you, words matter ... exact wording.
See post 168 for some vague unclear words lol

[Bill14564]

District 12 Kate Villas:

Article V USE RESTRICTIONS

"Section 2. No business of any kind shall be conducted on any residence with the exception of the business of Developer and the transferees of Developer in developing and selling all of the Homesites as provided herein. "

What kind of salad dressing would one like?

Reading comprehension. Read what the words mean, not what you would like them to mean.

What business is being run out of the home, what are those present in the home doing that constitutes business activity? As I have written before, they are eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning just as you and I do in our homes. They are not conducting business in the home, they are living their lives, just as you and I do. No business activity, no restriction violation.

Looking at it another way, there is at least one set of restrictions that were modified around rentals. In these restrictions, wording that specifically prohibited renting was removed leaving only the business language. It is possible that the developer went through the effort and cost to change the language simply to remove a redundancy. It is much more likely that he intended to remove the restriction against rentals and understood that the business language could be left because it did not interfere with renting.

But in the end, it takes only one court decision to put this to bed. Homeowners have the right and the duty to prosecute in a court of law to bring about deed compliance. Take you STR-running neighbor to court. When you get a judgment against him based on the deed restrictions then you will have proven that your reading of the restrictions was correct.

[JMintzer]

Have I responded to anything since then?

You must know what they post in order to critique them, no?

[Randall55]

Reading comprehension. Read what the words mean, not what you would like them to mean.

What business is being run out of the home, what are those present in the home doing that constitutes business activity? As I have written before, they are eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning just as you and I do in our homes. They are not conducting business in the home, they are living their lives, just as you and I do. No business activity, no restriction violation.

Looking at it another way, there is at least one set of restrictions that were modified around rentals. In these restrictions, wording that specifically prohibited renting was removed leaving only the business language. It is possible that the developer went through the effort and cost to change the language simply to remove a redundancy. It is much more likely that he intended to remove the restriction against rentals and understood that the business language could be left because it did not interfere with renting.

But in the end, it takes only one court decision to put this to bed. Homeowners have the right and the duty to prosecute in a court of law to bring about deed compliance. Take you STR-running neighbor to court. When you get a judgment against him based on the deed restrictions then you will have proven that your reading of the restrictions was correct. The renters are involved in a business transaction. The owner of the rental is conducting a business. If money is exchanged for goods or services it is a business.

If renters live in another state and choose to spend money to rent a home in Florida, that would be classified as interstate commerce. The state has authority to make laws regarding. If the state did not have the authority, they would not waste their time enacting laws regarding STRS and AIRBNB. It does not matter if the state is lenient or tough on these rental homes. The state gets involved because a business is being conducted. A business that, at times, crosses the state's borders. I am still in the camp that we will see stricter laws regarding STRS and AIRBNBS from a government level (city, local, or state) This is not merely a zoning issue.

It would be silly to argue deed restrictions in court. Even if you win, the wording of the deed restrictions can be changed in a fashion that adheres to the laws. For example: If you win based on the fact that an STR is a business.The Deed restriction clearly prohibits business in a home. All the Developer has to do is list businesses that are permitted in an updated deed restriction. Laws regarding STRS and AIRBNBS need to come from the government level. Exactly as they did in NYC.

If and when laws are enacted, I am certain those of you who keep stating it can never be done, will post. "It was obvious laws would be enacted, how did you not see this coming?" I will have a good chuckle.

[Randall55]

I would wager that the person who posted that would ask "Things than never happened for $600, Alex" on Jeopardy
If you havent heard, Alex is dead. And, if I were on Jeopardy, I would take Communities Who Believe They Are The Friendliest Home Town, wager all my money, Ken!

If it has not happened TO YOU that doesnt mean others are liars.

[Two Bills]

With all the heat rising from this thread, can't believe 'jimjam' hasn't been along complaining about the hot air killing the Polar Bears.

[BrianL99]

District 12 Kate Villas:

Article V USE RESTRICTIONS

"Section 2. No business of any kind shall be conducted on any residence with the exception of the business of Developer and the transferees of Developer in developing and selling all of the Homesites as provided herein. "


What kind of dressing would one like on their word salad, lol?

Deed Restrictions are not consistent throughout The Villages. The posted language is atypical and as someone else mentioned, doesn't necessarily mean what you would like it to mean.

[RICH1]

This place is turning into AIRBNB Village.
A winter haven from November thru March and then bounce back up North..
Fellow Villagers are also AIRBNB owners.. The enemy lives among us.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Randall55 post 172 : Well said!

[golfing eagles]

With all the heat rising from this thread, can't believe 'jimjam' hasn't been along complaining about the hot air killing the Polar Bears.

Be careful what you wish for.......

[BrianL99]

This place is turning into AIRBNB Village.
.

That would appear to be an over-statement of gargantuan proportions.


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2257469-post414.html

[Papa_lecki]

Reading comprehension. Read what the words mean, not what you would like them to mean.

What business is being run out of the home, what are those present in the home doing that constitutes business activity? As I have written before, they are eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning just as you and I do in our homes. They are not conducting business in the home, they are living their lives, just as you and I do. No business activity, no restriction violation.


The deed restriction DOESN’T define Business - in a legal document, a term is defined if it’s capitalized.

If I am running an online t-shirt print business, at home (i have t-shirts in my garage, I print them, and ship them) - I have inventory and work from my home.

Is the STR landlord actually operating the rental business from their primary home (i.e. where the records are kept, where the lease is signed and money exchanges hands)?
What’s happening in the STR in The Villages is…


As I have written before, they are eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning just as you and I do in our homes. They are not conducting business in the home, they are living their lives, just as you and I do.
Need a court precedent to define Business in The Villages.

[Randall55]

That would appear to be an over-statement of gargantuan proportions.


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2257469-post414.htmlHow would you know? You stated earlier you live on a lake where there are red lights causing boats to lose vision. Doesn't sound like a place in the Villages! Even if you are a part-time resident, again, how would you know? You are not here to witness. Are you going by the STRS listed on the online sites? Many are not listed there.

[Bill14564]

The renters are involved in a business transaction. The owner of the rental is conducting a business. If money is exchanged for goods or services it is a business.

The issue is not whether renting a home is a business activity, most deed restrictions don't mention rentals. The issue is whether there is business being conducted at the home ant there is not. Eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning are not business activities. There is no business being conducted in the home by residing there and therefore there is no violation of the restrictions.


<discussion of interstate commerce with questionable legal opinion removed>

I am still in the camp that we will see stricter laws regarding STRS and AIRBNBS from a government level (city, local, or state) This is not merely a zoning issue.

Perhaps we will see stricter laws but if we do they will likely be based on zoning.

It would be silly to argue deed restrictions in court. Even if you win, the wording of the deed restrictions can be changed in a fashion that adheres to the laws. For example: If you win based on the fact that an STR is a business.The Deed restriction clearly prohibits business in a home. All the Developer has to do is list businesses that are permitted in an updated deed restriction. Laws regarding STRS and AIRBNBS need to come from the government level. Exactly as they did in NYC.

Again, eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning are not business activities and do not constitute business being conducted on a residence.

Absolutely deed restrictions can change, laws can change also (this was made clear in another thread by someone very proud of their Masters degree in Political Science). Does this make it silly to go to court to enforce a speed limit law because it can be changed?

As far as I know, deed restrictions are legally binding and enforceable. The CDDs have no problem fining people for violations of external deed restrictions and there is an ongoing court case involving lawn ornaments. The deed restriction against business being conducted on a residence should be equally enforceable. Put your money where your mouth is - if you are that confident in your legal assessment of this situation then do your duty as an owner and initiate proceedings to bring that STR (and other rentals) into compliance.

If and when laws are enacted, I am certain those of you who keep stating it can never be done, will post. "It was obvious laws would be enacted, how did you not see this coming?" I will have a good chuckle.

Reading comprehension again. I don't recall anyone saying laws cannot be enacted. I and others have pointed out that Florida State law prevents local governments from creating any new laws that limit the duration of rentals. Several have also said that there appears to be no interest by the developer or county government to address rental activity at this time. That interest might change and the Florida law might change in the future, but not today.

[Randall55]

The deed restriction DOESN’T define Business - in a legal document, a term is defined if it’s capitalized.

If I am running an online t-shirt print business, at home (i have t-shirts in my garage, I print them, and ship them) - I have inventory and work from my home.

Is the STR landlord actually operating the rental business from their primary home (i.e. where the records are kept, where the lease is signed and money exchanges hands)?
What’s happening in the STR in The Villages is…


Need a court precedent to define Business in The Villages.Any time money is exchanged for goods or SERVICES, it is a business.

[Bill14564]

How would you know? You stated earlier you live on a lake where there are red lights causing boats to lose vision. Doesn't sound like a place in the Villages! Even if you are a part-time resident, again, how would you know? You are not here to witness. Are you going by the STRS listed on the online sites? Many are not listed there.

????

He would know how many airbnbs are available in the Villages by searching the airbnb site for listings in the Villages.....JUST AS HE SHOWED IN THE LINKED POST!

Are you really asserting that many rentals in the Villages are not listed on rental sites? Do you believe 20 year olds are going door to door to find STRs that don't advertise on rental sites?

[Randall55]

The issue is not whether renting a home is a business activity, most deed restrictions don't mention rentals. The issue is whether there is business being conducted at the home ant there is not. Eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning are not business activities. There is no business being conducted in the home by residing there and therefore there is no violation of the restrictions.




Perhaps we will see stricter laws but if we do they will likely be based on zoning.



Again, eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning are not business activities and do not constitute business being conducted on a residence.

Absolutely deed restrictions can change, laws can change also (this was made clear in another thread by someone very proud of their Masters degree in Political Science). Does this make it silly to go to court to enforce a speed limit law because it can be changed?

As far as I know, deed restrictions are legally binding and enforceable. The CDDs have no problem fining people for violations of external deed restrictions and there is an ongoing court case involving lawn ornaments. The deed restriction against business being conducted on a residence should be equally enforceable. Put your money where your mouth is - if you are that confident in your legal assessment of this situation then do your duty as an owner and initiate proceedings to bring that STR (and other rentals) into compliance.



Reading comprehension again. I don't recall anyone saying laws cannot be enacted. I and others have pointed out that Florida State law prevents local governments from creating any new laws that limit the duration of rentals. Several have also said that there appears to be no interest by the developer or county government to address rental activity at this time. That interest might change and the Florida law might change in the future, but not today.
I am not stupid enough to spend my hard earned money fighting deed restrictions. That is a fool's game! Why don't you finally pick a side? It is so easy to argue when one flip flops,

[Randall55]

????

He would know how many airbnbs are available in the Villages by searching the airbnb site for listings in the Villages.....JUST AS HE SHOWED IN THE LINKED POST!

Are you really asserting that many rentals in the Villages are not listed on rental sites? Do you believe 20 year olds are going door to door to find STRs that don't advertise on rental sites? That is exactly what I am stating. There are multiple ways to rent a home. Not only the ones you can google. I know of many that were rented out by word of mouth alone.

[Bill14564]

I am not stupid enough to spend my hard earned money fighting deed restrictions. That is a fool's game! Why don't you finally pick a side? It is so easy to argue when one flip flops,

Reading comprehension yet again.

1. You would not be fighting a deed restriction, you would be seeking enforcement of a deed restriction. Big difference between fighting not to obey an item in a legal document and arguing that the legal document ought to be obeyed.

2. I have not flip flopped at all. You can find all my previous posts easily enough to prove that to yourself.

[BrianL99]

Absolutely deed restrictions can change, laws can change also (this was made clear in another thread by someone very proud of their Masters degree in Political Science). Does this make it silly to go to court to enforce a speed limit law because it can be changed?

.

Every time I ever bought Cracker Jack's as a kid, I only got a silly little rubber horse or elephant. They put Master's Degrees in some of the boxes?

[Papa_lecki]

Any time money is exchanged for goods or SERVICES, it is a business.

And the business is being operated out of the landlord’s primary home, not the STR.

Is a business operating out of a rental car or the Avis office at the airport?

[Randall55]

Every time I ever bought Cracker Jack's as a kid, I only got a silly little rubber horse or elephant. They put Master's Degrees in some of the boxes?You probably wouldn't know because you don't have one. if you did, you wouldn't post such a ridiculous statement.

[Randall55]

And the business is being operated out of the landlord’s primary home, not the STR.

Is a business operating out of a rental car or the Avis office at the airport?The goods they provide are the cars and the homes. The services are what is included in the lease.

[golfing eagles]

The deed restriction DOESN’T define Business - in a legal document, a term is defined if it’s capitalized.

If I am running an online t-shirt print business, at home (i have t-shirts in my garage, I print them, and ship them) - I have inventory and work from my home.

Is the STR landlord actually operating the rental business from their primary home (i.e. where the records are kept, where the lease is signed and money exchanges hands)?
What’s happening in the STR in The Villages is…


Need a court precedent to define Business in The Villages.

From a legal dictionary:

business
n. any activity or enterprise entered into for profit. It does not mean it is a company, a corporation, partnership, or have any such formal organization, but it can range from a street peddler to General Motors.

[BrianL99]

And the business is being operated out of the landlord’s primary home, not the STR.

Is a business operating out of a rental car or the Avis office at the airport?

That is a great analogy.

Similar (not as good perhaps) is selling a home. Who's conducting the business and from where?

[Randall55]

That is a great analogy.

Similar (not as good perhaps) is selling a home. Who's conducting the business and from where? If the silly thing you are arguing is true, then THINK! The laws would stop or restrict the business owners NO MATTER WHERE THEIR HOME OFFICE OR PLACE OF CONDUCTING THE BUSINESS IS LOCATED! How would one continue to run an STR or AIRBNB without adhering to the laws? They would be fined or shut down even if the owner is in Timbuktu.

[Bill14564]

If the silly thing you are arguing is true, then THINK! The laws would stop or restrict the business owners NO MATTER WHERE THEIR HOME OFFICE OR PLACE OF CONDUCTING THE BUSINESS IS LOCATED! How would one continue to run an STR or AIRBNB without adhering to the laws? They would be fined or shut down even if the owner was in Timbuktu.

If you are referring to what exists today for the Villages, that would be the deed restrictions. The deed restrictions apply to what happens at the residence. It matters greatly where the business is conducted since if it is not conducted on the residence then the deed restrictions do not apply. Eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning by those residing in the home are not business activities.

If you are referring to future laws then sure, the future law could be written that way and in the future that would matter, but not today.

[Randall55]

If you are referring to what exists today for the Villages, that would be the deed restrictions. The deed restrictions apply to what happens at the residence. It matters greatly where the business is conducted since if it is not conducted on the residence then the deed restrictions do not apply. Eating, sleeping, cooking, and cleaning by those residing in the home are not business activities.

If you are referring to future laws then sure, the future law could be written that way and in the future that would matter, but not today.
Wake Up! One day in NYC STRs were running rampant. The next day, without notice, restrictions were placed on them, forcing some to shut down. How do you believe all this happened?

Please do not respond this is not NYC. There are state, city, and local governments in every state. If they can curtail STRS in NYC, government officials can use the same principles to curtail STRS in their area. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

I am just going to say, We shall see! I have no interest in posting anymore.

[Normal]

The rules are perfectly legal, but unrelated to Florida State Law in that respect.

"Deed Restrictions" are completely distinct from Zoning Regulations ... apples and oranges.

A Deed Restriction can prohibit you from painting your house red or purple. A seller can restrict what you can do with what he/she sells you and doesn't (generally) need a reason, nor even be reasonable. The difference being, you can elect not to buy a piece of property, if you don't like the restrictions the Seller wants to impose. The only restrictions that can't be enforced, are those that violate public interest. Many home deeds in the 40's & 50's, prohibited people from selling their homes to Negros, Jews, anyone who has spent time in a mental institution ... there were all sorts of prohibitions. They have been negated by anti-discrimination laws.

A Law cannot prohibit you from painting your house red or purple, unless the state can somehow show there's a valid reason, that's in the public interest.

At a lake I live on, there's currently pressure to outlaw using "red outdoor lights" in your yard. Sounds ridiculous, right? It's distracting for boaters navigating at night and there have been several boating accidents because of the confusion. Valid reason and in the public interest.

Deed Restrictions in Florida can be changed, but do you have to?

Just do what Ft Pirce Florida initiated in 2021. They were not grandfathered before the 2011 Florida law on rentals.

Mandate hosting rules.

[Bill14564]

Wake Up! One day in NYC STRs were running rampatant. The next day, without notice, restrictions were placed on them, forcing some to shut down. How do you believe all this happened?

Starting Sept. 5, New York City began enforcing restrictions on short-term rentals that could push visitors away from booking platforms such as Airbnb and into the arms of hotels.


These rules were proposed and published on November 4, 2022, and a public hearing was held on December 5, 2022. A second notice extending public comment period and announcing a second hearing was published December 12, 2022, and a second hearing was held on January 11, 2023.

Please do not respond this is not NYC. There are state, city, and local governments in every state. If they can curtail STRS in NYC, government officials can use the same principles to curtail STRS in their area. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

I am just going to say, We shall see! I have no interest in posting anymore.

Please re-read my post carefully. There are the laws that exist today and the laws that may possibly exist some day in the future. What *CAN* be done is one thing and what *WILL* be done is anyone's guess but what *HAS* been done so far does not prohibit rentals today.

[BrianL99]

Deed Restrictions in Florida can be changed, but do you have to?

Just do what Ft Pirce Florida initiated in 2021. They were not grandfathered before the 2011 Florida law on rentals.

Mandate hosting rules.

I would proffer that the rules adopted by Ft. Pierce are intended to address "abuses", but in fact, simply raise the cost to run a STR (& increase revenue for the city) and do little or nothing to limit STR's.

It's sort of like adopting a new Speed Limit. Great theory, it might help a little, but folks aren't really "prohibited" from speeding, they simply must face the consequences if caught.

Don't get me wrong, they did a decent job with what they had to work with, but they were really stymied by FL state law.

https://stlucievillagefl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Fort-Pierce-21-019.pdf

[Normal]

I would proffer that the rules adopted by Ft. Pierce are intended to address "abuses", but in fact, simply raise the cost to run a STR (& increase revenue for the city) and do little or nothing to limit STR's.

It's sort of like adopting a new Speed Limit. Great theory, it might help a little, but folks aren't really "prohibited" from speeding, they simply must face the consequences if caught.

Don't get me wrong, they did a decent job with what they had to work with, but they were really stymied by FL state law.

https://stlucievillagefl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Fort-Pierce-21-019.pdf

Yes, but invester groups (which don’t even belong here) would be forced to move on. Not many would pay for “home watchers” to host while their places are rented out.

[golfing eagles]

What I find interesting on these 2 threads is the assumption that "the developer" supports STRs and will fight any attempt to restrict them. Has TV made any such statement???? Ever????

The core business model is selling homes in an active 55+ retirement community. Full time residents make up about 65-70% of our population and owner snowbirds/snowflakes about 25-30%, give or take. Investment owners who bought just to rent out, corporations and the like are a small percentage.

What motivation does "the family" have to support STRs to the angst of some of Villagers???? Sell homes???? They sell them as fast as they build them. Ruin their marketing slogan of "America's Friendliest Hometown"???? No benefit there.

I would like to see Mark Morse come to one of the town meetings and make the statement: "Our position on STRs is_____________________. At least we would know what we are dealing with, and whether "the developer" is our friend or our adversary.

[tophcfa]

I would like to see Mark Morse come to one of the town meetings and make the statement: "Our position on STRs is_____________________. At least we would know what we are dealing with, and whether "the developer" is our friend or our adversary.

Agree. Furthermore, it would be nice if every county commissioner candidate had their feet held to the fire regarding the topic and made a public statement on their stance.

[Bill14564]

Yes, but invester groups (which don’t even belong here) would be forced to move on. Not many would pay for “home watchers” to host while their places are rented out.

The St Lucie rules do not require hosting (see the ordinance section 22-509.2. The rules require a responsible party, which could be a management company, to reside within the county. This may or may not be a hindrance to investor groups.

[Bill14564]

What I find interesting on these 2 threads is the assumption that "the developer" supports STRs and will fight any attempt to restrict them. Has TV made any such statement???? Ever????

...

I would like to see Mark Morse come to one of the town meetings and make the statement: "Our position on STRs is_____________________. At least we would know what we are dealing with, and whether "the developer" is our friend or our adversary.

Perhaps actions speak louder than words? Most deed restrictions do not prohibit rentals and while some do, some have been amended to remove restrictions on rentals, and others have been amended to add restrictions on rentals. It kind of feels like ambivalence at this point.

[JMintzer]

If you havent heard, Alex is dead. And, if I were on Jeopardy, I would take Communities Who Believe They Are The Friendliest Home Town, wager all my money, Ken!

If it has not happened TO YOU that doesnt mean others are liars.

Learned all that in a month, have ya'?

[JMintzer]

With all the heat rising from this thread, can't believe 'jimjam' hasn't been along complaining about the hot air killing the Polar Bears.

It's CORAL REEFS, silly! :jester:

[JMintzer]

How would you know? You stated earlier you live on a lake where there are red lights causing boats to lose vision. Doesn't sound like a place in the Villages! Even if you are a part-time resident, again, how would you know? You are not here to witness. Are you going by the STRS listed on the online sites? Many are not listed there.

And how would YOU know? Has your "extensive" time living in TV given you some sort of superior insight?

[JMintzer]

That is exactly what I am stating. There are multiple ways to rent a home. Not only the ones you can google. I know of many that were rented out by word of mouth alone.

You actually think that STRs or Air B&Bs are rented out via "word of mouth"? Really?

[Randall55]

And how would YOU know? Has your "extensive" time living in TV given you some sort of superior insight?
One can live in the Villages for quite some time without being a member of TOTV. Some have never read the forum, some do not know about the forum. Some just recently learned about TOTV. Is that beyond your comprehension? All I ever stated was I am new to this forum and just bought a home in Hawkins. Does that mean I did not live in another Village(s) prior? Thanks for your superior insight.

[JMintzer]

One can live in the Villages for quite some time without being a member of TOTV. Some have never read the forum, some do not know about the forum. Some just recently learned about TOTV. Is that beyond your comprehension? All I ever stated was I am new to this forum and just bought a home in Hawkins. Does that mean I did not live in another Village(s) prior? Thanks for your superior insight.

Where did you live before you bought in Hawkins? How long did you live there? Was that area "over run" by STRs?

[Happydaz]

What I find interesting on these 2 threads is the assumption that "the developer" supports STRs and will fight any attempt to restrict them. Has TV made any such statement???? Ever????

The core business model is selling homes in an active 55+ retirement community. Full time residents make up about 65-70% of our population and owner snowbirds/snowflakes about 25-30%, give or take. Investment owners who bought just to rent out, corporations and the like are a small percentage.

What motivation does "the family" have to support STRs to the angst of some of Villagers???? Sell homes???? They sell them as fast as they build them. Ruin their marketing slogan of "America's Friendliest Hometown"???? No benefit there.

I would like to see Mark Morse come to one of the town meetings and make the statement: "Our position on STRs is_____________________. At least we would know what we are dealing with, and whether "the developer" is our friend or our adversary.

I also don’t think the developer has a vested interest in STR’s. They may initially sell some extra homes but at some point the hassles and resident concerns may not help future full time residents and snow bird residents want to buy new homes here. Another factor is the possibility of STR’s becoming a glut on the market and the investment income could fall low enough to motivate investors to sell their houses. Also if the market gets saturated and the investors all start to unload these assets the overall housing market could be depressed. This would depress new home sale prices as well and cost the developer money. It is possible that increased sales of homes for investment could destabilize the housing market.

[manaboutown]

I view STRs much like I view STDs. I don't want them near me!

[Randall55]

///

[JMintzer]

I view STRs much like I view STDs. I don't want them near me!

Apparently, TV has a very high percentage of both! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GizmoWhiskers]

Any time money is exchanged for goods or SERVICES, it is a business.
Bingo!

Not sure how FL DBPR requires business licenses for some STR's (as in the ones being rented out for less than 30 days more than 3 times a year) and NOT required for STRs consisting of rooms rented out WHILE property is owner occupied, relative to: cooking, sleeping, cleaning. The FL DBPR keeping these activities in mind would disqualify an ABnB as a business???

Words matter lol...

In that case the determination would revert to... who is cooking, sleeping there and cleaning etc, for how long, with owner there too or not and did $$ change hands for the right to cook, clean and sleep there, as well as was the place frequently advertised as a place that can be used to cook, clean and sleep for less than 30 days etc.?

Lol all considerations for the FL DBPR to determine if a license is needed or not?

It does not take much to read various VILLA restrictions and the FL DBPR website to see the "words" that matter.

Nevertheless, T V could care less about STRs.

No sense wasting seconds...

Simple Simon was a pie man...

[GreySkies]

I view STRs much like I view STDs. I don't want them near me!

There are always two sides to a story. Just started my 3rd rental period in 3 years, been in TV for not even two days and already hearing the sad stories of snowbird / renter complaints. I ignore them simply because in most cases the people who complain the most are worse than the people they are complaining about. Example, last year I rented a home instead of a Villa, the neighbor to the right a 12-year FT owner (I know since they told me on the first day I rented) had a nasty habit of dumping their garbage out the side door before walking it over to the garbage cans on the other side of the garage. On some days he would forget and the next day the garbage was spread out due to an animal searching for food.

After about a week of this I had to say something, I did not want to confront the neighbor directly, so I sent an email to the owner with some pictures. She notified the management company which then notified whomever in TV is responsible for HOA code enforcement. Obviously, nothing happened, and I ended up picking up whatever garbage that drifted over to my side, this went on for the ENTIRE 6 months that I rented.

When it came to who is responsible, the owner pointed their finger at the Management company, who responded with “not responsible for homes they do not manage” and then pointed to TV for non-enforcement of current HOA rules. So, stop complaining about renters not following HOA rules, direct your dissatisfaction to the people YOU PAY, the HOA that is not enforcing its own rules.

[Sandy and Ed]

WELL….with 217 posts in response to this I guess the management (developer$ has a good handle in the mood of the community regarding this subject. This is a great arena for the developer to get feedback on many areas. Wonder if any original posts are feed onto the mix just to get reactions!?

[VApeople]

T V could care less about STRs.


Since TV does not care about STRs now, how can they care less in the future?

Words matter lol...

Yeah, they sure do, especially if someone is trying to express a coherent thought.

[JGibson]

Can we have a golf cart protest?

[Velvet]

There are always two sides to a story. Just started my 3rd rental period in 3 years, been in TV for not even two days and already hearing the sad stories of snowbird / renter complaints. I ignore them simply because in most cases the people who complain the most are worse than the people they are complaining about. Example, last year I rented a home instead of a Villa, the neighbor to the right a 12-year FT owner (I know since they told me on the first day I rented) had a nasty habit of dumping their garbage out the side door before walking it over to the garbage cans on the other side of the garage. On some days he would forget and the next day the garbage was spread out due to an animal searching for food.

After about a week of this I had to say something, I did not want to confront the neighbor directly, so I sent an email to the owner with some pictures. She notified the management company which then notified whomever in TV is responsible for HOA code enforcement. Obviously, nothing happened, and I ended up picking up whatever garbage that drifted over to my side, this went on for the ENTIRE 6 months that I rented.

When it came to who is responsible, the owner pointed their finger at the Management company, who responded with “not responsible for homes they do not manage” and then pointed to TV for non-enforcement of current HOA rules. So, stop complaining about renters not following HOA rules, direct your dissatisfaction to the people YOU PAY, the HOA that is not enforcing its own rules.

We have the occasional either really unobservant or very low IQ, renters on my street, who put out garbage on non garbage days over and over again, ignoring the regular dump created by the animals and birds the next day. I can only assume the renters actually live in a dump where they live regularly. I just spray their bags with Lysol or other fragrant spray. Keeps animals away.

[Calisport]

Even larger houses near town squares are being bought up as rentals but in general, patio villas have the most rentals.

[Pairadocs]

You are wise to have the major concern articulated. I would strongly suggest that you, and other prospective homebuyers, make your concerns abundantly clear to your Property of the Villages sales representative. Hopefully the message will get through loud and clear to the entity with the clout and resources to do something about the ever growing short term rental problem in the Villages. Best of luck with your home search.

Lots of luck. We pretty much invested our life savings into a designer home in what we were told was an "desirable" village near the "new" Lake Sumter Landing "town"(nearly 18 years later not sure what "desirable" even meant, should have asked more questions. Now on a street with 8 large (by Florida standards since all are only one story) "designer" homes, there are only 2 of us full time residents, 2 "snowbird" owners, and the remaining 4 homes are Air B&B's that at times have as many as five vehicles parked with 2 or 3 on the drives and 2 to 3 on the street. It's maddening. If we, or the other full time residents try to introduce ourselves, there is little reciprocation or retention or interest in knowing our names; and why should they care or want to known anyone anyway ? We are so very thankful that at least this constant "in and out" seems to quiet down by 10 to 11 p.m. One blessing in all the disappointment. Now, on the next street over, no less than three (3) large designer homes went up for sale. One couple moved to St. Augustine, one to Naples, and one found a golf focused retirement community in Tennessee that does not permit short term rentals ! They are going to send us information. All 3 of the homes on the street behind us are still for sale about more than 4 months now, and all in very fine attractive condition !? Are people loosing interest due to all emphasis on the AB&B (many seem to be owned by Villages sales people (!), or is the market just falling ?

[margaretmattson]

Lots of luck. We pretty much invested our life savings into a designer home in what we were told was an "desirable" village near the "new" Lake Sumter Landing "town"(nearly 18 years later not sure what "desirable" even meant, should have asked more questions. Now on a street with 8 large (by Florida standards since all are only one story) "designer" homes, there are only 2 of us full time residents, 2 "snowbird" owners, and the remaining 4 homes are Air B&B's that at times have as many as five vehicles parked with 2 or 3 on the drives and 2 to 3 on the street. It's maddening. If we, or the other full time residents try to introduce ourselves, there is little reciprocation or retention or interest in knowing our names; and why should they care or want to known anyone anyway ? We are so very thankful that at least this constant "in and out" seems to quiet down by 10 to 11 p.m. One blessing in all the disappointment. Now, on the next street over, no less than three (3) large designer homes went up for sale. One couple moved to St. Augustine, one to Naples, and one found a golf focused retirement community in Tennessee that does not permit short term rentals ! They are going to send us information. All 3 of the homes on the street behind us are still for sale about more than 4 months now, and all in very fine attractive condition !? Are people loosing interest due to all emphasis on the AB&B (many seem to be owned by Villages sales people (!), or is the market just falling ?LSL is the area I live in, too. It seems everytime a villa is up for sale an investor buys it. My street went from 0 rentals to 10 on my street alone in a 3-year period. I am hoping when Eastport opens the investors will flock there. We have a problem with parking on the street, as well.There are usually 4 people staying in the Villas and sometimes 6. I have been looking for a new home in the Villages for 8 months. I think I may have found the perfect spot. (fingers crossed) Good luck to you! Hope all turns out well.

[DrMack]

I would like to thank everyone for the time and knowledge they placed in this thread. We wish everyone the best. It was overwhelming to see the effort some placed in trying to get a personal view in instead of answering what I asked. In a way it was validating my concerns. I’m more or less a straight shooter who was just looking for a good retirement spot. I didn’t want all the other stuff, but thank you, it confirmed the mood of this area and the tensions the uncontrolled situation that has evolved with rentals.

[Djean1981]

The Villages offers Lifestyle Visits...

[Happydaz]

The Villages offers Lifestyle Visits...

I haven’t seen any Lifestyle Visits in my neighborhood. Don’t they just do these in one specific area? I remember when I did one we were near Sumter Landing in a whole group of Court Yard Villlas. There were numerous homes they were using and they were all next to one another. I think they then moved to Brownwood area for Life Style Visits. The STRs are all over the Villages and affect long time homeowners.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I haven’t seen any Lifestyle Visits in my neighborhood. Don’t they just do these in one specific area? I remember when I did one we were near Sumter Landing in a whole group of Court Yard Villlas. There were numerous homes they were using and they were all next to one another. I think they then moved to Brownwood area for Life Style Visits. The STRs are all over the Villages and affect long time homeowners.

The Villages also has a property management company, which provides short-term rentals on behalf of property owners. It's pretty popular for older working people who want to come to The Villages for a vacation. Since this system is OWNED by The Villages, it would NOT be in their best interest to not allow short-term rentals. They profit directly from the management of properties owned by people who offer their homes to tenants. The Property Management company charges a fee to the homeowner, and they provide the middle-man service between tenant and homeowner. They maintain the property, clean it when a tenant leaves, makes sure there's a newspaper at the door every morning, keeps inventory of the utensils and furniture, and all the other things that property managers do.

We only had one lifestyle visit, but we rented in The Villages using the Property Management department for vacation a few years before we purchased our home.