New home sales slump

[Normal]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

[Stu from NYC]

Well let's see if the sun talks about this.

[VApeople]

We know this area pretty well because we like to play golf at MickeyLee and we have ridden our bikes along all of the paths shown on this map.

Maybe when they start building the new golf courses, improve Route 470, and start building Eastport, the areas on the map will become more desirable.

[Kelevision]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

I’m confused by these photos. The one on top has an entire section of mostly pending homes that’s not in the bottom photo.

[kkingston57]

I’m confused by these photos. The one on top has an entire section of mostly pending homes that’s not in the bottom photo.

Most, if not all, readers here should be familiar with what is going on. Real estate has ups and downs. This is not a new phenomenon.

Have to admit that the developers are in a different situation than before. Brother coming in November for a Lifestyle visit. They are housing him in a new area(less developed). Last year he did it also and they stayed < 1/2 mile from Brownwood. New areas are too remote for me and a lot less desirable.

[JGibson]

High-interest rates will do that. Not everyone can pay cash.

[Kelevision]

Most, if not all, readers here should be familiar with what is going on. Real estate has ups and downs. This is not a new phenomenon.

Have to admit that the developers are in a different situation than before. Brother coming in November for a Lifestyle visit. They are housing him in a new area(less developed). Last year he did it also and they stayed < 1/2 mile from Brownwood. New areas are too remote for me and a lot less desirable.

I really like that new area. Personally, being so much closer to Orlando is appealing. It’s also close to Eastport which will be great. I’ve considered selling and buying there but the interest rates are a deterrent.

[billethkid]

Keep in mind that a "slow" rate of sales in TV would/could be a boom number for many other developers.

[Stu from NYC]

Keep in mind that a "slow" rate of sales in TV would/could be a boom number for many other developers.

Think this is all about higher interest rates will be up there for some time. Wonder if they will slow down building?

[margaretmattson]

Think this is all about higher interest rates will be up there for some time. Wonder if they will slow down building? Most people know the next areas to be built will be in the Eastport area. With Championship golf courses, country clubs, the square, and more commercial, I suspect people are waiting to purchase. Lower taxes in Sumter County help too. My guess is investors will be lining up to purchase in that area. Just like Richmond, there will be 30 people or more wanting the same houses and they will revert back to the lottery system. Some unlucky homeowners may find themselves on a street with many rentals like those in Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood.

I'm staying away! Once my CYV near a square is sold, I am purchasing farther north. I have no interest in reliving a neighborhood full of rentals. In my next move, I am looking for peace and tranquility.

[Stu from NYC]

Most people know the next areas to be built will be in the Eastport area. With Championship golf courses, country clubs, the square, and more commercial, I suspect people are waiting to purchase. Lower taxes in Sumter County help too. My guess is investors will be lining up to purchase in that area. Just like Richmond, there will be 30 people or more wanting the same houses and they will revert back to the lottery system. Some unlucky homeowners may find themselves on a street with many rentals like those in Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood.

I'm staying away! Once my home is sold in LSL, I am purchasing farther north. I have no interest in reliving a neighborhood full of rentals. In my next move, I am looking for peace and quiet.

It seems to me that many people come down here and really think they need to make a buy within a week. As a result real estate salespeople will guide them to an area that they are told to by their management.

[margaretmattson]

It seems to me that many people come down here and really think they need to make a buy within a week. As a result real estate salespeople will guide them to an area that they are told to by their management. I wish I could say a real estate agent urged us to buy within walking distance to a square. Nope! That was our idea. We sold our larger home and bought a CYV close to amenities galore. For a few years, it was wonderful! Then came the popularity of AIRbnb and everything changed, quickly. Now, with ten rentals on my street, I am looking forward to getting away. We live, we learn, we adapt.

[Stu from NYC]

I wish I could say a real estate agent urged us to buy within walking distance to a square. Nope! That was our idea. We sold our larger home and bought a CYV close to amenities galore. For a few years, it was wonderful! Then came the popularity of AIRbnb and everything changed, quickly. Now, with ten rentals on my street, I am looking forward to getting away. We live, we learn, we adapt.

We all make mistakes in moving here. We thought a 3 bedroom would be big enough after our much larger home in Va and we are sorry we did not buy a larger one or a 4. So far not sorry enough to move but could well happen.

[DAVES]

Most, if not all, readers here should be familiar with what is going on. Real estate has ups and downs. This is not a new phenomenon.

Have to admit that the developers are in a different situation than before. Brother coming in November for a Lifestyle visit. They are housing him in a new area(less developed). Last year he did it also and they stayed < 1/2 mile from Brownwood. New areas are too remote for me and a lot less desirable.

It is all a matter of OPINION. I do my best to avoid shoulda, coulda mightas. Far as your brother he is lucky to have you to translate what is going on. People, should beware of the bias, my area is better than your area kind of thing. We've been here for ten years. Frankly we chose well and even the timing was good. Personality-I laugh when I hear people typically move three times in the villages. An old line if you don't take the time to do it right the first time you will need time and money to do it again.

We are here full time. November is snow bird season. Cooler, and more crowded. Probably fewer options on the lifestyle visits. We've gotten used to the heat. Summer in Florida is sort of like getting used to snow up north. Happiness is a choice. You can be happy or miserable anywhere.

We took a mortgage when we bought a wise choice at that time. Mortgage money is now 8% and they are making it hard to qualify. Might be wise to know what you can or should spend. I do not know the future but I expect inflation will continue and taxes will go up.

[DAVES]

I wish I could say a real estate agent urged us to buy within walking distance to a square. Nope! That was our idea. We sold our larger home and bought a CYV close to amenities galore. For a few years, it was wonderful! Then came the popularity of AIRbnb and everything changed, quickly. Now, with ten rentals on my street, I am looking forward to getting away. We live, we learn, we adapt.

Far as neighbors we've been lucky. Our previous home, in New York we had the neighbors from hell. we bought new. I wanted a resale wife wanted new so that is why we bought new.
If I was buying a resale, I would surely want to meet the neighbors and ask people who live there what is going on. Brokers are sales people they are not likely to tell you renters have destroyed the quality of life unless the buyer is planing on renting the home.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Could be that the future retiring buyers hoping for here are not getting their house sold back there, wherever, to the younger crowd, at the price they want, unless they are in a place where there are no more buildable lots and few houses being in a desirable area.

Here is mostly dependent on there unless people are very wealthy. .

lets wait and see but near zero interest rates were very much of an historical anomaly, and definitely not the norm.
Zillow / Redfin just released that 10% of the houses being sold are for people returning to the office, and moving back to where they were, more or less. . Extrapolating today way into the future > 3 years, is most likely incorrect in the people behavioral world.

we shall see what happens, I am watching and not pronosticating. .

[vintageogauge]

The good thing is you'll make a hansom profit when you do decide to sell.

[vintageogauge]

You are doing something wrong with your maps. According to the Daily Sun there were 281 new homes sold in TV in August which is right about where it has been for quite some time, the first half of the year they were averaging just about 10 per day every day., Sold prices went up just about 4% over last year. The MLS shows 3 more homes sold in TV in August compared with August 2022. So I don't see a slump and don't forget they are also selling new build family homes down on 470 which brings the numbers even higher.

[frayedends]

I’m confused by these photos. The one on top has an entire section of mostly pending homes that’s not in the bottom photo.

To answer your question, they aren't showing because those people closed on their houses. I am one of the houses in Lake Denham that closed in the last few weeks.


Regarding houses not selling up north, not true at all. There is very low inventory so any sales are happening pretty quick. The inventory issue is partly due to the interest rates. People with a house at less than 3% aren't in a rush to sell and buy a house at 7%. Therefore, the buyers can't find anything.

As far as people buying in the area on the map, we bought knowing Eastport is coming and we are close to Sawgrass. When we drove through the Eastport area it was very lacking in any preserve areas. We wanted a preserve site and Lake Denham has a lot. Of course all the houses still for sale are mostly interior lots.

For this area, only ~30 minutes to Brownwood by cart. Preserve sites, long walking trail along preserve, close to Eastport when it opens. I think it has a lot going for it. Plus the Villages just bought a bunch more land just south of this area.

[Normal]

You are doing something wrong with your maps. According to the Daily Sun there were 281 new homes sold in TV in August which is right about where it has been for quite some time, the first half of the year they were averaging just about 10 per day every day., Sold prices went up just about 4% over last year. The MLS shows 3 more homes sold in TV in August compared with August 2022. So I don't see a slump and don't forget they are also selling new build family homes down on 470 which brings the numbers even higher.

The pictures are screen shots from a little over 3 weeks ago (August 31) and today (September 26). They are of the same village of course called Lake Denham. The completed houses have stopped selling.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just pictures……provide your own narrative.

[frayedends]

The pictures are screen shots from a little over 3 weeks ago (August 31) and today (September 26). They are of the same village of course called Lake Denham. The completed houses have stopped selling.

I was confused by the pic because the first pic is the more recent.

The more recent pic has many more listings that weren’t yet available in the older pic. The preserve/view sites have sold very fast. The interior are taking longer, as expected.

Based on the Lake Denham FB page, there are houses being sold daily. I keep seeing new people.

[Catalina36]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

My quick response is,
#1 the higher interest rates are hurting retirement savings that are invested in the stock market. When the stock market is up people spend more money.
#2 The mortgage interest rates are hurting both preowned and new home sales.
#3 As much as the present homeowners in The Villages like the prices to go up and up. The higher the prices the homes will be pricing themselves out of the market. Remember in Florida your homes real estate taxes are based on the sale price of the house.

Higher Mortgage Interest and Higher Home prices is the reason for lower sales.
Just My Thought on home sales

[Normal]

Higher Mortgage Interest and Higher Home prices is the reason for lower sales.
Just My Thought on home sales

We also know that 36% of all listings took a price reduction last week, mortgage applications have decreased 7 out of the last 8 weeks to the lowest since 1997, median prices nationally have decreased 40 k and housing starts have plummeted to levels prior to 2020. That said, the concern is lack of applications for home loans. If young couples aren’t buying homes, older couples aren’t selling theirs and moving.

[Susan1717]

Homes sales are slowing everywhere. We also have a beach condo on the water in southern florida. Been looking to upgrade that one to a larger condo and see many desirable ones on the market for over 100 days! That’s unheard of. Updated waterfront property used to sell within days or weeks. I’m thinking it is the poor economy, high inflation, and high interest rates.

[skippy05]

The economy.

[jimdecastro]

Think this is all about higher interest rates will be up there for some time. Wonder if they will slow down building?

I am moved from Citrus Grove to Newell. My taxes are virtually identical. In addition, in a few years, when there are 10,000 homes here, the tax rates will go down like they did in Sumter. While my taxes went up about 30% my property is 42% bigger. Per square foot I pay lower taxes in Lake County.

[jimdecastro]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

There were two other factors I didn't see here. The past three weeks, about 25 homes were sold in Newell (will be at several reduced by as much is $40,000). In addition, lots are now being sold in Dabney. There are only 14 homes left in Newell. I do not believe any homes are available yet in Dabney. Currently, Lake Denham is where all the new homes are. There are probably less new homes available now than there was a year ago. Once anything opens in Eastport this area will be hopping. By the way, it takes me 43 minutes to get to Disney World.

[DeweyBeach]

There were two other factors I didn't see here. The past three weeks, about 25 homes were sold in Newell (will be at several reduced by as much is $40,000) .....

How does one determine if there was a price reduction on a new home?

[jimkerr]

Most people know the next areas to be built will be in the Eastport area. With Championship golf courses, country clubs, the square, and more commercial, I suspect people are waiting to purchase. Lower taxes in Sumter County help too. My guess is investors will be lining up to purchase in that area. Just like Richmond, there will be 30 people or more wanting the same houses and they will revert back to the lottery system. Some unlucky homeowners may find themselves on a street with many rentals like those in Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood.

I'm staying away! Once my CYV near a square is sold, I am purchasing farther north. I have no interest in reliving a neighborhood full of rentals. In my next move, I am looking for peace and tranquility.

It will not be cheaper to live closer to Eastport because those people will be paying Wildwood taxes like I do.

[Stu from NYC]

The good thing is you'll make a hansom profit when you do decide to sell.

Than what?

[Justputt]

I'm building in Dabney, and while I'd like to be closer to squares, I'd likely also be closer to noise, rentals, etc., and I prefer the quiet. We about 4 miles from Eastport via 470, which is not a golf cart friendly road, unfortunately. It looks like we'll have to run up to the overpass near Sawgrass, so I'm guessing 20min run to Eastport, otherwise, 5 min car ride. There is an underpass at 48 (Leesburg Hwy), but it looks no shorter than running to Sawgrass and connects to nothing on the west side of the FL Turnpike. We're also plenty close to get to a Publix (3ish miles), but in a car, as there aren't golf cart friendly paths to it. I too like being closer to MCO and having the 470 onramps so close will cut down on time noodling through TV.

[Stu from NYC]

Find it interesting that many of us want to be closer to squares. Bought one a few miles from LSL and over time pretty much stopped going as we found restaurants we liked better outside the bubble.

[Ken D.]

Homes sales are slowing everywhere. We also have a beach condo on the water in southern florida. Been looking to upgrade that one to a larger condo and see many desirable ones on the market for over 100 days! That’s unheard of. Updated waterfront property used to sell within days or weeks. I’m thinking it is the poor economy, high inflation, and high interest rates.
Waterfront during hurricane season may play into your equation.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Than what?

Exactly! The choices here in TV are sell used in demand by/ to the wanna buy now, and build another new by you, the patient buyer, in maybe less desirable location, or downsize.

Should not look at your home in financial investment terms, but as personal comfort and enjoyment only, regardless of current price.

[VApeople]

I'm building in Dabney, and while I'd like to be closer to squares, I'd likely also be closer to noise, rentals, etc., and I prefer the quiet. We about 4 miles from Eastport via 470, which is not a golf cart friendly road, unfortunately. It looks like we'll have to run up to the overpass near Sawgrass, so I'm guessing 20min run to Eastport, otherwise, 5 min car ride. There is an underpass at 48 (Leesburg Hwy), but it looks no shorter than running to Sawgrass and connects to nothing on the west side of the FL Turnpike. We're also plenty close to get to a Publix (1 mileish), but in a car, as there aren't golf cart friendly paths to it. I too like being closer to MCO and having the 470 onramps so close will cut down on time noodling through TV.

Good for you thinking about how it will be living in Dabney. You will be very near to the new dining hot spot Seafood Shack, which is excellent, and you will have the only adult resort pool in The Villages. It will also be a nice drive along the south shore of Lake Harris to reach the Yalaha Bakery and The Hideaway.

[Burnie]

Interesting that so many comments about buying in The Villages seem to be more concerned with things like resale value, renting, etc. When we bought here in 2003, the idea was to find a nice place to grow old(er) suitable for people of our age (I was 68 at the time). As a matter of fact, while touring The Villages on one of the lifestyle bus rides, when I made what I thought was a funny remark that "what if all I want to do is watch television?", the tour guide said "Well, not everyone is made for The Villages".

[Pat2015]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?
There are 1100 new construction homes in Newell with only 17 left to sell, and in the second quarter of this year 100 more new homes were sold then all the sales throughout TV. Also, the Enclave which is a new Premier neighborhood in Dabney sold out immediately upon release. I’d say sales down south in the new areas are going great!

[MandoMan]

“During the past year, The Villages built an average of 134 homes per month, down from its historical average of about 300.”
Prices for used homes began dropping in June of 2022 when interest rates began going up, especially for homes over $500,000. Many people who move here pay cash, but those who need a mortgage have a limit to what they can afford, and with higher interest, those people can’t afford as much. I put my house with a pool on a golf course up for sale three months too late. I was expecting $600,000, but it sold for $525,000. The speed of sales for new houses reflects this.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

I'm confused by these photos. They are very similar with the exception of the area directly above the zoom in/zoom out buttons. The bottom photo I assume is the three weeks ago one? The top photo then shows where a new neighborhood (patio villas?) was released and quickly put into contract. I see sales, not slump!

[vintageogauge]

It beats taking a loss when you sell.

[vintageogauge]

However, the average MLS listing that sold in TV during both July and August are up nearly 4% from the same period last year.

[Nansim]

It seems to me that many people come down here and really think they need to make a buy within a week. As a result real estate salespeople will guide them to an area that they are told to by their management.
That is absolutely not true. Management does not dictate location for sales.

[Stu from NYC]

That is absolutely not true. Management does not dictate location for sales.

Sorry but I beg to differ. If you were running a business like the Villages why in the world would you not push certain areas when necessary? Do you not think it is a good idea to finish selling a village so as to move on to the next one?

[Brwne]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

Lots that are sold for home construction do not show as "sold" or "pending". They aren't actually "sold" until construction is complete and the deal closes. There are quite a few lots sold in Dabney that do not show up at all.

I do, however, think that closed home sales are down 25% +/- from the peak in 2021. That being said, we closed 9/16/19 and there've been over 12,000 homes sold since then!

[kkingston57]

Homes sales are slowing everywhere. We also have a beach condo on the water in southern florida. Been looking to upgrade that one to a larger condo and see many desirable ones on the market for over 100 days! That’s unheard of. Updated waterfront property used to sell within days or weeks. I’m thinking it is the poor economy, high inflation, and high interest rates.

Forgot to include high and/or unpredictable insurance rates, especially near the coast. Also since the building collapse in the Miami area a lot of people do not want the hassles that condo living entails.

[kkingston57]

Waterfront during hurricane season may play into your equation.

Also homeowners insurance 4-5X more expensive and getting worse.

[tophcfa]

Let’s hope prospective residential home buyers have smartened up and are backing away from buying homes commingled among a bunch of short term rentals. That would be the absolute quickest way to finally get something done to address the ever growing short term rental problem.

[kkingston57]

That is absolutely not true. Management does not dictate location for sales.

Management is only interested in new sales and listings for non new homes that they are the listing agent. When we moved here, we wanted an established neighborhood and our agent only could show us houses that they were the listing agent.

[manaboutown]

That is absolutely not true. Management does not dictate location for sales.

My first VLS agent evaded showing me even one resale home after multiple requests and steered me to brand new spec homes.

[margaretmattson]

My first VLS agent evaded showing me even one resale home after multiple requests and steered me to brand new spec homes.We were working with a VLS agent for a couple of months. Each time, he showed us the new spec homes but no resales. He kept telling us resales are more expensive and not worth looking at. I started working with an MLS agent and found the reverse to be true. The resale home that we are currently under contract cost us much less than new with a beautiful view as a bonus. Landscaping, gutters, epoxy garage already complete. It pays to be patient and to use two realtors.

[Stu from NYC]

Absolutely

[justjim]

High-interest rates will do that. Not everyone can pay cash.

High interest rates, uncertain economy, 3% mortgage where a person currently lives and an undeveloped commercial area of The Villages are all legitimate reasons a person might pass right now on a new home in The Villages.

[Justputt]

We were working with a VLS agent for a couple of months. Each time, he showed us the new spec homes but no resales. He kept telling us resales are more expensive and not worth looking at. I started working with an MLS agent and found the reverse to be true. The resale home that we are currently under contract cost us much less than new with a beautiful view as a bonus. Landscaping, gutters, epoxy garage already complete. It pays to be patient and to use two realtors.

One of the first things our agent asked was if we wanted to look at resales. We said if the location is right, no carpet, not a kissing Liani, not near anything noisy, and price was right, yes, but what we noticed was the resale houses we could be interested in cost more per square foot than new, presumably because they were in an established neighborhood closer to the squares. We checked Zillow and Realtor too for sales not covered by TV agent. And, IMO, the older original area homes are not nearly as updated, plain bathrooms, etc., and would cost $$$ to remodel.

[rsmurano]

The developers will sell every house they build. It might take a little longer but Florida is in demand. If you want a deal, but in NY, NJ, California and Oregon. When we drive around the Newell area, everything is sold that can be sold. They are at 470 now.
We have sales in the $1M-$1.6M range in our village, and these are just designer homes.
I have 1 friend here that has moved 7 times, and a few others that have moved a few times, so I think he average could very well be 3 times a typical homeowner moves in the villages.

[Marathon Man]

Let’s hope prospective residential home buyers have smartened up and are backing away from buying homes commingled among a bunch of short term rentals. That would be the absolute quickest way to finally get something done to address the ever growing short term rental problem.

I am hoping that prospective buyers find and purchase a home so that they can join our wonderful community. It is not on them to address something before they even move in.

[margaretmattson]

One of the first things our agent asked was if we wanted to look at resales. We said if the location is right, no carpet, not a kissing Liani, not near anything noisy, and price was right, yes, but what we noticed was the resale houses we could be interested in cost more per square foot than new, presumably because they were in an established neighborhood closer to the squares. We checked Zillow and Realtor too for sales not covered by TV agent. And, IMO, the older original area homes are not nearly as updated, plain bathrooms, etc., and would cost $$$ to remodel.No remodeling needed. Gorgeous granite countertops, LVP floor, newly painted inside and out and an extended lanai. It took us 8 months to find THE ONE. In the end, our patience paid off. I think the reason we got a great deal is most buyers are not interested in the Northern areas. We have been here for 20+ years living near LSL and Brownwood. It was time for a change. This is a new adventure for us. Most of all, we are looking forward to living on a street with no rentals.

[Pat2015]

Move to a smaller house or a new house here,, pay cash, and bank the rest of the money.

[Pat2015]

“During the past year, The Villages built an average of 134 homes per month, down from its historical average of about 300.”
Prices for used homes began dropping in June of 2022 when interest rates began going up, especially for homes over $500,000. Many people who move here pay cash, but those who need a mortgage have a limit to what they can afford, and with higher interest, those people can’t afford as much. I put my house with a pool on a golf course up for sale three months too late. I was expecting $600,000, but it sold for $525,000. The speed of sales for new houses reflects this.

I sold my house in March of this year (2023) for twice what I paid for it two years earlier when I built it. The first person who walked into see it bought it immediately. Sometimes, it’s timing and location. I was really lucky! As far as new home builds in TV, I’m wondering if you have those numbers reversed. There’s a very brisk pace of new homes being built down south, and I don’t recall seeing housing to this extent being built in 8 years I’ve been here.

[Michael 61]

No remodeling needed. Gorgeous granite countertops, LVP floor, newly painted inside and out and an extended lanai. It took us 8 months to find THE ONE. In the end, our patience paid off. I think the reason we got a great deal is most buyers are not interested in the Northern areas. We have been here for 20+ years living near LSL and Brownwood. It was time for a change. This is a new adventure for us. Most of all, we are looking forward to living on a street with no rentals.

Sounds like your patience paid off - congratulations!

[Marsha11]

Never rentable!!!!!!!

[maistocars]

There are 1100 new construction homes in Newell with only 17 left to sell, and in the second quarter of this year 100 more new homes were sold then all the sales throughout TV. Also, the Enclave which is a new Premier neighborhood in Dabney sold out immediately upon release. I’d say sales down south in the new areas are going great!
Agree with the first part, but the Enclave is nowhere near sellout. They have 77 lots available and 42 others have been sold.

[JMintzer]

Sorry but I beg to differ. If you were running a business like the Villages why in the world would you not push certain areas when necessary? Do you not think it is a good idea to finish selling a village so as to move on to the next one?

It's kinda' hard to sell homes where you're not building, isn't it?

Of course they're going to show "new" homes where they're currently building...

[JMintzer]

Let’s hope prospective residential home buyers have smartened up and are backing away from buying homes commingled among a bunch of short term rentals. That would be the absolute quickest way to finally get something done to address the ever growing short term rental problem.

Kinda' hard to do that unless you're one of the last homes sold in a neighborhood...

[davem4616]

Stu when I first moved here, I was surprised to learn that many residents are in their 3rd home in TV.

I'm a widower now, plan to remain in 'the bubble' but giving serious thought to downsizing ....

[JMintzer]

Management is only interested in new sales and listings for non new homes that they are the listing agent. When we moved here, we wanted an established neighborhood and our agent only could show us houses that they were the listing agent.

Well, considering the agents can't sell MLS homes, what did you expect?

[JMintzer]

My first VLS agent evaded showing me even one resale home after multiple requests and steered me to brand new spec homes.

And mine showed us exactly what we wanted to see...

Sounds like your first agent was just a poor agent...

[JMintzer]

Absolutely

Positively...

[Stu from NYC]

Positively...

Certainly!:spoken:

[Normal]

Also homeowners insurance 4-5X more expensive and getting worse.

Costs for maintenance of a home absolutely play into a decision to buy. Homeowner’s in Florida has become a healthy problem with monthly expenses.

[JMintzer]

Certainly!:spoken:

Indubitably... :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Stu from NYC]

Indubitably... :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Irregardless of that how do you really feel?

[westernrider75]

No remodeling needed. Gorgeous granite countertops, LVP floor, newly painted inside and out and an extended lanai. It took us 8 months to find THE ONE. In the end, our patience paid off. I think the reason we got a great deal is most buyers are not interested in the Northern areas. We have been here for 20+ years living near LSL and Brownwood. It was time for a change. This is a new adventure for us. Most of all, we are looking forward to living on a street with no rentals.

Glad you found exactly what you were looking for. We were open to any location when we were looking but I have to agree with the previous poster, everything we saw definitely needed updates and many were very dark because of the layout. Because we were not going to be here full time for several years after the purchase we didn’t really feel like we could manage those renovations from 1000 miles away. We ended up with a new courtyard villa and we are glad we did, it has very nearly doubled in price since 2020 and we have only spent about $25k to get that return on investment. I do appreciate the mature landscape on the more northern areas however.

[Randall55]

Glad you found exactly what you were looking for. We were open to any location when we were looking but I have to agree with the previous poster, everything we saw definitely needed updates and many were very dark because of the layout. Because we were not going to be here full time for several years after the purchase we didn’t really feel like we could manage those renovations from 1000 miles away. We ended up with a new courtyard villa and we are glad we did, it has very nearly doubled in price since 2020 and we have only spent about $25k to get that return on investment. I do appreciate the mature landscape on the more northern areas however.I bought a home in Hawkins. Unlike most, I do not want my home to double in value. With that comes higher insurance rates, property taxes, and maintenance. When you sell your home for the "handsome profit", what next? I understand most of you are buying another newly built home at a lower cost. Then planning on reselling, again.

Eventually, that well is going to dry up. The buyers who purchased your homes for a higher price are going to want a higher price when they sell. You also will demand a higher price. Pretty soon, homes will be nearing the million dollar price tag. With that, comes exorbitant costs to live. To me, not worth it. But, no one can stop a moving train.

[vintageogauge]

The Villages sales agents sell more Villages re-sales than all of the MLS companies combined.

[Normal]

I’m wondering if the correlation with the rental market is hitting the buying base? Rent prices dropped an average of 50 dollars in Florida from September 2022 to September 2023

[geri317]

We are selling a beautiful courtyard villa in Village of Sanibel, 5 minutes from Colony!! It has been upgraded to include solar lighting, crown molding, wainscoting, granite counter tops, laminate flooring, no rugs throughout, pergola in backyard, painted driveway and walkways and the list goes on! With so many homes for sale, it is difficult to get people in to look at it! It is perfection!!!!

[Pat2015]

I was referencing the premier lots which I was told by a Villages sales rep that those lots were immediately sold upon release. Certainly many lots still for sale in Dabney.

[LianneMigiano]

Keep in mind that a "slow" rate of sales in TV would/could be a boom number for many other developers.
I'm just guessing BUT if our developer is having a hard time selling, other developers will look at that and say "guess we'd better not spend the money" - if those guys are having trouble. Banks would see that too. Why would they back a different developer if they see The Villages developer having slow sales?

[Pat2015]

I bought a home in Hawkins. Unlike most, I do not want my home to double in value. With that comes higher insurance rates, property taxes, and maintenance. When you do sell your home for the "handsome profit", what next? I understand most of you are buying another newly built home at a lower cost. Then planning on reselling, again.

Eventually, that well is going to dry up. The buyers who purchased your homes for a higher price are going to want a higher price when they sell. You also will demand a higher price. All around, homes will be nearing the million dollar price tag. With that, comes exorbitant costs to live. To me, not worth it. But, no one can stop a moving train.
I built a new home 2 years ago here in TV that doubled in value, so I took that money last year upon selling and paid cash for another new build. Not sure when the “well” might dry up but I think there’s still quite a bit of money that could be made from the new purchase.

[TonyM]

Why would I trade a 2.25 % 15 year mortgage for an 8% 30 year?

[bcsnave]

Why would I trade a 2.25 % 15 year mortgage for an 8% 30 year?

what is this mortgage thing that you speak of?????

[vintageogauge]

Your company transferred you far away. You just had twins and have no room. You are tired of snow and want to move to Florida. You want to down size. There are lots of reasons

[Laker14]

One of the first things our agent asked was if we wanted to look at resales. We said if the location is right, no carpet, not a kissing Liani, not near anything noisy, and price was right, yes, but what we noticed was the resale houses we could be interested in cost more per square foot than new, presumably because they were in an established neighborhood closer to the squares. We checked Zillow and Realtor too for sales not covered by TV agent. And, IMO, the older original area homes are not nearly as updated, plain bathrooms, etc., and would cost $$$ to remodel.

I'm guessing that the majority of prospective buyers find the resale locations more desirable than the brand new neighborhoods, hence the higher prices.

[Laker14]

what is this mortgage thing that you speak of?????

It is something that a lot of potential buyers will need to secure in order to buy a place if:
-they are buying a second home while still working in another location, in anticipation of moving to TV once they completely retire,
or
-they are buying as an income generator.

Both of those examples have had a positive effect on the real estate market in TV for a long time, but much easier to make it work at low interest rates. I still have a home up north, and was able to buy my home in TV with a 2.75% 30 year mortgage. That certainly made it a lot easier than it would have been at today's rates.

[JMintzer]

It is something that a lot of potential buyers will need to secure in order to buy a place if:
-they are buying a second home while still working in another location, in anticipation of moving to TV once they completely retire,
or
-they are buying as an income generator.

Both of those examples have had a positive effect on the real estate market in TV for a long time, but much easier to make it work at low interest rates. I still have a home up north, and was able to buy my home in TV with a 2.75% 30 year mortgage. That certainly made it a lot easier than it would have been at today's rates.

Same...

[Randall55]

I'm just guessing BUT if our developer is having a hard time selling, other developers will look at that and say "guess we'd better not spend the money" - if those guys are having trouble. Banks would see that too. Why would they back a different developer if they see The Villages developer having slow sales? We are a 55 plus community. Other developers can buy the land and build starter homes, family homes, townhouses etc.

[Randall55]

I built a new home 2 years ago here in TV that doubled in value, so I took that money last year upon selling and paid cash for another new build. Not sure when the “well” might dry up but I think there’s still quite a bit of money that could be made from the new purchase.I am not denying that there is a sizeable profit. With that comes higher monthly expenses: higher property taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.The well dries up when buyers do not want to pay the high monthly expenses or can't afford it. It also dries up when the people flipping their homes have to take a loss. The Real estate market is volatile. With every booming market lies a bust lurking in the shadows. I have been a contractor all my life. I have seen the best and the worst.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

We are selling a beautiful courtyard villa in Village of Sanibel, 5 minutes from Colony!! It has been upgraded to include solar lighting, crown molding, wainscoting, granite counter tops, laminate flooring, no rugs throughout, pergola in backyard, painted driveway and walkways and the list goes on! With so many homes for sale, it is difficult to get people in to look at it! It is perfection!!!!

crown molding, ugh, too traditional
wainscoting, ugh, too traditional
granite countertops. . yea! great!
laminate flooring, ugh
no rugs throughout, ugh
pegola in backyard, meh
painted driveway, yea! great


just my observations in that as retirees get younger, they can remember grandma's house and may not want grandma's house in retirement

[Stu from NYC]

crown molding, ugh, too traditional
wainscoting, ugh, too traditional
granite countertops. . yea! great!
laminate flooring, ugh
no rugs throughout, ugh
pegola in backyard, meh
painted driveway, yea! great


just my observations in that as retirees get younger, they can remember grandma's house and may not want grandma's house in retirement

The world including us very shortly, has gotten away from granite to quartz which is much more user friendly.

[asianthree]

I was referencing the premier lots which I was told by a Villages sales rep that those lots were immediately sold upon release. Certainly many lots still for sale in Dabney.

Not all of Enclave lots are sold, premium view lots sold pretty quick, just as any other view lot in any village. There were still some view lots available. Many Interior lots in Enclave are still available.

[Randall55]

The world including us very shortly, has gotten away from granite to quartz which is much more user friendly.Stone is stone. Not certain why you believe one is better than the other. It is merely a design choice. In five years, something new in home decor will come along and everyone will want it in their homes.Contractors and Developers live by a golden rule. No home or building stays up-to-date for very long. The most successful keep pace with the changing needs of the buyers.

Enjoy your quartz while you can. It soon will be outdated just like every decor craze before.

[Stu from NYC]

Stone is stone. Not certain why you believe one is better than the other. It is merely a design choice. In five years, something new in home decor will come along and everyone will want it in their homes.Contractors and Developers live by a golden rule. No home or building stays up-to-date for very long. The most successful keep pace with the changing needs of the buyers.

Enjoy your quartz while you can. It soon will be outdated just like every decor craze before.

We keep hearing that quartz will wear better than granite. Ultimate Granite says 90% of their customers are now ordering quartz. At our age it will probably last longer than us.

In Alfred E Neumann's immortal words, "What me Worry".

[Randall55]

We keep hearing that quartz will wear better than granite. Ultimate Granite says 90% of their customers are now ordering quartz. At our age it will probably last longer than us.

In Alfred E Neumann's immortal words, "What me Worry". Again, stone is stone. Ultimate granite has to keep their costs down to make a profit. Stocking one color of quartz that everyone is crazy about is much more cost efficient than having to stock several choices. Nearly every new spec home has the same color quartz and the same color flooring. It is not better. It is just the cheapest route for the suppliers and builders. Cookie cutter design in every home saves them lots of money. The color of the cabinets is the only variable in each home.

[Stu from NYC]

Again, stone is stone. Ultimate granite has to keep their costs down to make a profit. Stocking one color of quartz that everyone is crazy about is much more cost efficient than having to stock several choices. Nearly every new spec home has the same color quartz and the same color flooring. It is not better. It is just the cheapest route for the suppliers and builders. Cookie cutter design in every home saves them lots of money. The color of the cabinets is the only variable in each home.

Well my wife and her cheering section certainly are in the rooting section for the most popular color

[frayedends]

Stone is stone. Not certain why you believe one is better than the other. It is merely a design choice. In five years, something new in home decor will come along and everyone will want it in their homes.Contractors and Developers live by a golden rule. No home or building stays up-to-date for very long. The most successful keep pace with the changing needs of the buyers.

Enjoy your quartz while you can. It soon will be outdated just like every decor craze before.

Not that it matters but quartz counters are engineered material of ground stone mixed with resin. It’s not solid stone. I love the look of the white quartz. But as you said, eventually it will be out of style. Heck gold light fixtures are making a comeback. Albeit a more modern matte looking gold.

[Two Bills]

Not that it matters but quartz counters are engineered material of ground stone mixed with resin. It’s not solid stone. I love the look of the white quartz. But as you said, eventually it will be out of style. Heck good light fixtures are making a comeback. Albeit a more modern matte looking gold.

Vinyl records as well. :thumbup:

[DeweyBeach]

I'm guessing that the majority of prospective buyers find the resale locations more desirable than the brand new neighborhoods, hence the higher prices.

This month's home purchase for us is our fourth new home, one new build from the ground up and three spec homes. We've purchased two other homes which were resales and new vs existing have their trade offs for sure.

Resales are ready made infrastructure/home/lot/community etc and new home comes with more sweat equity and patiently awaiting completion and maturity.

Resale prices are higher IMO largely because more people want ready made rather than inconvenience and mystery.

I've moved a lot in my career and I see the value in both but prefer getting in early and riding the journey with my "new" neighbors.

[frayedends]

Vinyl records as well. :thumbup:

Right! Meant to say gold. Autocorrect apparently doesn’t know gold is a word. Anyway I suspect you knew that. But I fixed the post.

[Whitley]

A correction was needed. I'm looking for a larger home in SRQ. The homes I am looking at (700 range) were last sold, usually, within the prior four years for 150-200k less. On a similar topic, wages are not keeping up with rising home costs. Have not been for quite awhile. People starting out today are facing a much different situation that many of us did graduating in the eighties.

[Stu from NYC]

A correction was needed. I'm looking for a larger home in SRQ. The homes I am looking at (700 range) were last sold, usually, within the prior four years for 150-200k less. On a similar topic, wages are not keeping up with rising home costs. Have not been for quite awhile. People starting out today are facing a much different situation that many of us did graduating in the eighties.

Very true but we all want larger homes than we grew up in.

[Whitley]

Very true but we all want larger homes than we grew up in.

Hi Stu. It wouldn't be difficult to have a larger home than what I grew up in. I see you are from NY, I grew up in Fordham on Arthur Ave.. Past 35 years before moving to Fl I had one of the old homes in Tuxedo Park (also NY). Now I would like an easier to manage home, not over 100 years old (I say this but am looking at an old fish/ice home on (literally) the water to renovate.

[margaretmattson]

A correction was needed. I'm looking for a larger home in SRQ. The homes I am looking at (700 range) were last sold, usually, within the prior four years for 150-200k less. On a similar topic, wages are not keeping up with rising home costs. Have not been for quite awhile. People starting out today are facing a much different situation that many of us did graduating in the eighties.Wait until the Eastport homes become available. The newer homes are cheaper than preowned. This is the reason some people keep flipping their homes. They buy new, wait a year or so, then sell for a much higher price. Buy, sell, repeat.

[Stu from NYC]

Wait until the Eastport homes become available. The newer homes are cheaper than preowned. This is the reason some people keep flipping their homes. They buy new, wait a year or so, then sell for a much higher price. Buy, sell, repeat.

Now with higher interest rates this model may not work.

[DeweyBeach]

Now with higher interest rates this model may not work.

Even junior varsity builders find a way to out price the coexisting resale market ... and one thing is for sure here, TV ain't JV.

[Keefelane66]

When the Developer gets concerned then I might worry.
Or if they start laying off sales staff.

[Stu from NYC]

Even junior varsity builders find a way to out price the coexisting resale market ... and one thing is for sure here, TV ain't JV.

I am sure the developer can take cost of their new designer homes but given interest rates this high and seems to be lasting for awhile thinking less building to be done but time will tell.

[manaboutown]

I don't believe building and sales will slow down here until the last of the Baby Boomer population passes through their retirement years. Their final birth year was 1964 so the last of them are now 59. They are like a peccary passing through the digestive tract of a python.

[asianthree]

When the Developer gets concerned then I might worry.
Or if they start laying off sales staff.

Over 300 reps, one wouldn’t know if some left, so I don’t think you have to worry, plus if they don’t sell houses, no money, but I am sure there is a noncompete clause in their contract

[mickey100]

I am not denying that there is a sizeable profit. With that comes higher monthly expenses: higher property taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.The well dries up when buyers do not want to pay the high monthly expenses or can't afford it. It also dries up when the people flipping their homes have to take a loss. The Real estate market is volatile. With every booming market lies a bust lurking in the shadows. I have been a contractor all my life. I have seen the best and the worst.

Plus there's the down time involved when making upgrades to the new property. At my age, I want to play, I don't want to be tied down to time wasted waiting for contractors to give me estimates, and then they drag out the projects for who knows how long. We had friends who sold a beautiful home in TV and moved to a new section. It was over a year before they had everything finished off. Time is short when you're in your 70's. And all that moving, selling, etc., can be quite stressful.

[Marathon Man]

Plus there's the down time involved when making upgrades to the new property. At my age, I want to play, I don't want to be tied down to time wasted waiting for contractors to give me estimates, and then they drag out the projects for who knows how long. We had friends who sold a beautiful home in TV and moved to a new section. It was over a year before they had everything finished off. Time is short when you're in your 70's. And all that moving, selling, etc., can be quite stressful.

It certainly can be stressful. It can also be exciting and fun. Always keep growing and moving, even in your 70's.

[Stu from NYC]

Over 300 reps, one wouldn’t know if some left, so I don’t think you have to worry, plus if they don’t sell houses, no money, but I am sure there is a noncompete clause in their contract

If you are let go would think non compete goes away.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Wasn't there a big (relatively), news-worthy (Daily Sun, etc.) lawsuit just a couple years ago against a couple Village agents who left to form their own firm and were back to selling in The Villages. Seems to me the issue was the non-compete clause.

[Michael 61]

Plus there's the down time involved when making upgrades to the new property. At my age, I want to play, I don't want to be tied down to time wasted waiting for contractors to give me estimates, and then they drag out the projects for who knows how long. We had friends who sold a beautiful home in TV and moved to a new section. It was over a year before they had everything finished off. Time is short when you're in your 70's. And all that moving, selling, etc., can be quite stressful.

Although I am in my early 60s, I can relate to being busy with a new build. It’s almost 10 months since I closed on my new villa in Richmond. I’ve dealt with dozens of contractors, and hardly a week has gone by without having to manage some type of upgrade or project (birdcage, landscaping, floors, painting, countertops, appliances, closet reorg, expoxy and driveway stain, electrical, plumbing, NOVA, shower upgrade, door window insert, etc, etc, etc.) I’m almost done as I get close to my one-year mark (pendant lighting, and upgrade of ceiling fans, and window treatments left), and then I feel like I can finally relax fully (it’s like having a full-time job managing all this my first year here, but hopefully I’ll be glad I put in the effort when it’s all done - this will probably deter me from wanting to sell in the future and start this process all over again).

[VApeople]

hopefully I’ll be glad I put in the effort when it’s all done -

No. When it is all done, you will realize that you should have bought a different house, so you will sell it and buy in one of the new neighborhoods near Eastport.

[Stu from NYC]

Wasn't there a big (relatively), news-worthy (Daily Sun, etc.) lawsuit just a couple years ago against a couple Village agents who left to form their own firm and were back to selling in The Villages. Seems to me the issue was the non-compete clause.

Yes there was but believe they signed a non compete left and started competing.

[manaboutown]

Yes there was but believe they signed a non compete left and started competing.

The Villages wins federal suit against breakaway real estate agents (https://www.wmfe.org/2021-04-26/the-villages-wins-federal-suit-against-breakaway-real-estate-agents#)

[manaboutown]

The Villages wins federal suit against breakaway real estate agents (https://www.wmfe.org/2021-04-26/the-villages-wins-federal-suit-against-breakaway-real-estate-agents#)

Taking the customer list was a huge factor. Trade Secret Protection For Customer Lists: A Checklist - Trade Secrets - United States (https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/trade-secrets/820854/trade-secret-protection-for-customer-lists-a-checklist)

[Djean1981]

Ha! My Formica countertop will outlast me. :)

[Michael 61]

No. When it is all done, you will realize that you should have bought a different house, so you will sell it and buy in one of the new neighborhoods near Eastport.

LOL - you’re not the first person to tell me that (that I’ll want a home in Eastport once I see all it has to offer) - I guess time will tell, but right now I’m looking forward to relaxing and not having any projects for awhile. 😀

[Stu from NYC]

Ha! My Formica countertop will outlast me. :)

It might have but ours was taken away yesterday.

[frayedends]

I’m really curious the details of that non compete lawsuit. If they broke away there must be some strict timeline or something. They had to be selling resales on mls. Curious how the villages won if they no longer sold on VLS. I’d think noncompete would only be against selling for both.

In any case the Villages wouldn’t need to lay off sales agents. They are independent contractors. There could be 1000 of them and it wouldn’t change how much Villages paid in commission.

[Pat2015]

Plus there's the down time involved when making upgrades to the new property. At my age, I want to play, I don't want to be tied down to time wasted waiting for contractors to give me estimates, and then they drag out the projects for who knows how long. We had friends who sold a beautiful home in TV and moved to a new section. It was over a year before they had everything finished off. Time is short when you're in your 70's. And all that moving, selling, etc., can be quite stressful.
I enjoy having projects done in a new house and have moved several times. Moving isn’t fun but doubling my money in two years at the last house I built made it very worthwhile.

[Whitley]

Prices are also a factor (in addition to interest rates). I am looking for a home in the SRQ area. When I zillow a property, I see that a home with a current asking price of 650k to 700k has gone up 100 to 150k in the last three years. Add high interest rates to that and I am in no rush to close on something unless it is a unique opportunity.

[VApeople]

Prices are also a factor (in addition to interest rates). I am looking for a home in the SRQ area. When I zillow a property, I see that a home with a current asking price of 650k to 700k has gone up 100 to 150k in the last three years. Add high interest rates to that and I am in no rush to close on something unless it is a unique opportunity.

What is SQR?

[asianthree]

I’m really curious the details of that non compete lawsuit. If they broke away there must be some strict timeline or something. They had to be selling resales on mls. Curious how the villages won if they no longer sold on VLS. I’d think noncompete would only be against selling for both.

In any case the Villages wouldn’t need to lay off sales agents. They are independent contractors. There could be 1000 of them and it wouldn’t change how much Villages paid in commission.

Non compete, has a duration and distance that is pretty standard in any sales field. Almost always the company wins. But say you leave VLS, and start your own company, but don’t actually sell houses, but have other agents that do. It’s a grey area, I did this in another state, and my old company couldn’t make non compete stick. But can’t ever imagine developers backing down

[melpetezrinski]

Two pictures of the sales map. One 3 weeks ago, one this morning. Is it location or the economy? Houses aren’t moving too well these days. I would measure the more “rentable” across from Brownwood is the reason for the wait? Leesburg taxes?

It's a combination of 8% mortgage rates and home prices at historic highs. People think most buyers in TV pay cash but it's more on the line of 40%. That leaves 60% strongly reconsidering purchasing at this time. Housing supply is extremely low, which is why sellers think they still can get a June 2022 valuation on their home. A select few WILL get that price but the majority need to discount at least 10%. There is now over 705 homes for sale on the VLS with 171 lots available. The MLS has 353 homes for sales. These figures represent over a 10% increase in supply in just the last 10 days. Folks, we are finally at the point of a housing CORRECTION. Interesting how it will coincide or facilitate a recession.

[Stu from NYC]

Non compete, has a duration and distance that is pretty standard in any sales field. Almost always the company wins. But say you leave VLS, and start your own company, but don’t actually sell houses, but have other agents that do. It’s a grey area, I did this in another state, and my old company couldn’t make non compete stick. But can’t ever imagine developers backing down

Not our developer. They are too smart to do so. They have their brand and they make sure it stays theirs. I admire that they do so just sometimes they do seem to go a bit overboard.

[manaboutown]

Non compete, has a duration and distance that is pretty standard in any sales field. Almost always the company wins. But say you leave VLS, and start your own company, but don’t actually sell houses, but have other agents that do. It’s a grey area, I did this in another state, and my old company couldn’t make non compete stick. But can’t ever imagine developers backing down

As I understand it the rogue agents took one or more customer lists which were in this case determined to be intellectual property. That likely had much to do with the outcome, the damages paid by the agents to the developer and why the developer sued them.

[GoRedSox!]

There were recently 26 homes in Alden Bungalows in pending status on The Villages website. As of today, 16 are pending. I know they are selling off the former lifestyle visit homes there, but that is a lot of pending homes for one village all at the same time and it would seem to suggest no shortage of buyers or a decline in sales.

[Altavia]

I'm aware of at least two buyers wanting to build a home in the Enclave who decided to stay in their existing home after going to design and finding the very limited selections and changes permitted.

[Rainger99]

Mortgage Rates Hit 7.49%, Highest Since 2000.

This will make it difficult for people up north to find buyers. Glad I sold when rates were low!

[Normal]

Mortgage Rates Hit 7.49%, Highest Since 2000.

This will make it difficult for people up north to find buyers. Glad I sold when rates were low!

Not an easy time to sell a house. Hopefully those trying to get out of the market do so before things get worse.

[frayedends]

Not an easy time to sell a house. Hopefully those trying to get out of the market do so before things get worse.

It's a very easy time to sell a house up here in Massachusetts. There's low inventory. It's just the sellers aren't wanting to leave their good interest rate for a higher rate. Of course, inventory isn't an issue in the Villages.

[Normal]

It's a very easy time to sell a house up here in Massachusetts. There's low inventory. It's just the sellers aren't wanting to leave their good interest rate for a higher rate. Of course, inventory isn't an issue in the Villages.

Yes, just google the “For sale” in The Villages on your computer. Check the Villages website. Houses are abundant for the taking. There are zero problems in inventory. In addition, there are huge amounts of temporary housing just outside the Villages opening up.

[dawabeav]

What is SQR?

Sarasota FL.

[ronda]

I enjoy having projects done in a new house and have moved several times. Moving isn’t fun but doubling my money in two years at the last house I built made it very worthwhile.

So you are saying the house price doubled in 2 years?
I've never heard of a house doubling in price in 2 years ? What's the secret? I assume you made improvements to the house, so maybe that's part of the explanation. Are you saying you doubled your money in 2 years?

[SusanStCatherine]

I'm aware of at least two buyers wanting to build a home in the Enclave who decided to stay in their existing home after going to design and finding the very limited selections and changes permitted.

Did they get their $10K lot deposits back?

[SusanStCatherine]

Although I am in my early 60s, I can relate to being busy with a new build. It’s almost 10 months since I closed on my new villa in Richmond. I’ve dealt with dozens of contractors, and hardly a week has gone by without having to manage some type of upgrade or project (birdcage, landscaping, floors, painting, countertops, appliances, closet reorg, expoxy and driveway stain, electrical, plumbing, NOVA, shower upgrade, door window insert, etc, etc, etc.) I’m almost done as I get close to my one-year mark (pendant lighting, and upgrade of ceiling fans, and window treatments left), and then I feel like I can finally relax fully (it’s like having a full-time job managing all this my first year here, but hopefully I’ll be glad I put in the effort when it’s all done - this will probably deter me from wanting to sell in the future and start this process all over again).

Sounds like mostly your choice to improve. Be grateful your first 15 months weren't sucked up by warranty visits like ours were. So we're still at a subpar house despite all of our efforts. Well over 100 defects on our initial list and 62 defects found at our 10 month inspection. Over two years and just getting to most improvements we would like to make. Yet still have to fix some subpar stuff that didn't get fixed by warranty.

[vintageogauge]

Sounds like mostly your choice to improve. Be grateful your first 15 months weren't sucked up by warranty visits like ours were. So we're still at a subpar house despite all of our efforts. Well over 100 defects on our initial list and 62 defects found at our 10 month inspection. Over two years and just getting to most improvements we would like to make. Yet still have to fix some subpar stuff that didn't get fixed by warranty.

During our walk through with the builder he showed us everything that he felt should be taken care of but told us to wait until we were in a few weeks in case there were other items. We found nothing else wrong with they house and everything was repaired. A few months later we found that there was a hollow spot under a couple of our tile, we called, they fixed it and that was the last time we ever called, going on 7 years now. When we asked the builder why they didn't make the repairs he knew about the answer was " I don't make the decision to release the homes for sale " They released the home, we were first in and bought it immediately and there were others waiting to see if we were going to drop our hold that also wanted it.

[MrChip72]

There were recently 26 homes in Alden Bungalows in pending status on The Villages website. As of today, 16 are pending. I know they are selling off the former lifestyle visit homes there, but that is a lot of pending homes for one village all at the same time and it would seem to suggest no shortage of buyers or a decline in sales.

I'm not sure that means much as a point of comparison. People have gone crazy over anything close to Brownwood for awhile. Look at how Richmond sold out more quickly than likely any other previous village has.

I think a good indicator is how fast the homes without good proximity to any of the squares are selling.

[asianthree]

Did they get their $10K lot deposits back?

We had a deposit on our lot, 4 other lots came available, 3 weeks later. If we would have been first on the 4 lots, we were informed that we would loose $10,000 deposit.

We have been buying houses in TV, since “07”, deposit was moved to different lot or house.

Process changed for no return, or transfer of $10,000, was 2022, could have been initiated earlier.

So unless there has been a change in protocol, they would have lost their deposit.

We had the cash to build in Enclave, but since it wasn’t a premier neighborhood, it was a hard No, for us.

[melpetezrinski]

It's a combination of 8% mortgage rates and home prices at historic highs. People think most buyers in TV pay cash but it's more on the line of 40%. That leaves 60% strongly reconsidering purchasing at this time. Housing supply is extremely low, which is why sellers think they still can get a June 2022 valuation on their home. A select few WILL get that price but the majority need to discount at least 10%. There is now over 705 homes for sale on the VLS with 171 lots available. The MLS has 353 homes for sales. These figures represent over a 10% increase in supply in just the last 10 days. Folks, we are finally at the point of a housing CORRECTION. Interesting how it will coincide or facilitate a recession.

3 month update "There is now over 828 homes for sale on the VLS with 184 lots available. The MLS has 393 homes for sale. This represents a 17%, 8% and 11% increase respectively. I'm still holding my housing correction stance and associated recession.

[Normal]

3 month update "There is now over 828 homes for sale on the VLS with 184 lots available. The MLS has 393 homes for sale. This represents a 17%, 8% and 11% increase respectively. I'm still holding my housing correction stance and associated recession.

Higher inventory places pressure on the sellers to lower prices.

[margaretmattson]

3 month update "There is now over 828 homes for sale on the VLS with 184 lots available. The MLS has 393 homes for sale. This represents a 17%, 8% and 11% increase respectively. I'm still holding my housing correction stance and associated recession.A large inventory doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. Regarding the MLS listings, do you know how many are packing up and leaving? The last stats I saw, 20 some homes were selling per week. Not good news for the 300 or so who are waiting for buyers.

The Developer has the capability to build homes at a rapid pace. IMO, a large inventory to unload is not a good scenario. It would be better if the sales team kept pace with the construction. There are hundreds of homes available in Lake Denham and Dabney. Lots in the Enclave and Moultrie Creek are moving at a snail's pace. The sales team needs to get to work!

[vintageogauge]

A large inventory doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. Regarding the MLS listings, do you know how many are packing up and leaving? The last stats I saw, 20 some homes were selling per week. Not good news for the 300 or so who are waiting for buyers.

The Developer has the capability to build homes at a rapid pace. IMO, a large inventory to unload is not a good scenario. It would be better if the sales team kept pace with the construction. There are hundreds of homes available in Lake Denham and Dabney. Lots in the Enclave and Moultrie Creek are moving at a snail's pace. The sales team needs to get to work!

First, there are a lot more than 20 used homes selling per week between TV and MLS agents. Second, what makes you believe they are packing up and leaving, many of them are selling and moving into new homes here in TV. The homes that are on desirable lots and lots that are desirable are selling, the others will take longer but they will all sell. The developers know what they are doing and they know what's ahead of them they'll do just fine.

[margaretmattson]

First, there are a lot more than 20 used homes selling per week between TV and MLS agents. Second, what makes you believe they are packing up and leaving, many of them are selling and moving into new homes here in TV. The homes that are on desirable lots and lots that are desirable are selling, the others will take longer but they will all sell. The developers know what they are doing and they know what's ahead of them they'll do just fine.I stated the last stats I saw on the MLS LISTINGS were 20 per week. None of us know the exact reason people are selling their homes. I did not state all of them were packing up and leaving. I merely posed a question. Do you know how many are packing up and leaving? None of us do! It is silly to argue one way or the other. 393 homes for sale could be a good thing or bad.

I agree with you. The developer knows what he is doing. I think the sales team needs to do a better job at keeping pace.

[Bogie Shooter]

Has a more negative impact to state “packing up and leaving”., isn’t that the intent?

[asianthree]

A large inventory doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. Regarding the MLS listings, do you know how many are packing up and leaving? The last stats I saw, 20 some homes were selling per week. Not good news for the 300 or so who are waiting for buyers.

The Developer has the capability to build homes at a rapid pace. IMO, a large inventory to unload is not a good scenario. It would be better if the sales team kept pace with the construction. There are hundreds of homes available in Lake Denham and Dabney. Lots in the Enclave and Moultrie Creek are moving at a snail's pace. The sales team needs to get to work!

Or have you considered that due to the area, and length of time to reach courses, or other places by golf cart could deter the area’s selling. Agents can only take potential buyers to the area, make efforts to up sell the area. However you can’t make them buy.

There are over 350 VLS reps and 800 homes. If they all had 2.1 buyers in 30 days there wouldn’t be an inventory. Yet buyers are in a stall, either waiting for a different area, or disappointed no more custom builds.

April, May and June are big closing months in Florida. Rates are dropping, and no matter what people think why pay cash for a house when you can make more money investing than a mortgage rate.

[Pairadocs]

Well let's see if the sun talks about this.

Probably discouraged by their agencies, but at least two area agents are confirming to their friends and family privately, that indeed sales and prices have significantly fallen..."cause" is undoubtedly a complex mix of factors.

[Laker14]

The way the new homes and new villages have been developed and sold in the last 5 years, has, IMO, caught up to reality.
We all know that as TV expanded southward, the "new" villages were somewhat remote from the amenities and commercial establishments available more conveniently to the older villages. However, being 10 minutes from Brownwood, and 20 minutes from LSL was acceptable for many, in exchange for a newer build. Likewise with accessibility to the bulk of executive and championship courses. However, the newest villages, currently being developed, and showing a bit of a stall, are considerably farther from those established entities.

It reminds me of the military tactic of invading so quickly and advancing so deeply that the supply trains can't keep up with the needs of the front line. Sooner or later the momentum stalls out for lack of supplies.
Combined with higher mortgage rates, the remoteness of the new villages from the entities that make The Villages what it is, is perhaps proving to be not such an attractive option at this point in time.

As The Villages "feel", or "ambience", creeps southward with the development of new golf courses, maybe a square or two more accessibly located, things will pick up again. And lower mortgage rates wouldn't hurt, either.

[vintageogauge]

In today's Daily Sun there's an article about the success of TV once again in 2023 selling 3,029 New Homes, that's 8.30 homes per day 365 days a year. I believe they were down 300 plus homes when compared to 2022 but for all that's going on in the economy not bad at all. The average selling price of new homes as of the end of the 3rd quarter 2023 was up about $8,000 and re-sales down about $6,000.

[Altavia]

In today's Daily Sun there's an article about the success of TV once again in 2023 selling 3,029 New Homes, that's 8.30 homes per day 365 days a year. I believe they were down 300 plus homes when compared to 2022 but for all that's going on in the economy not bad at all. The average selling price of new homes as of the end of the 3rd quarter 2023 was up about $8,000 and re-sales down about $6,000.

This week's closings:

[Laker14]

This week's closings:

Look at all of the Floridians on that board!

I knew that Florida is the leading source of new Villagers, but not by that much.

[twoplanekid]

In today's Daily Sun there's an article about the success of TV once again in 2023 selling 3,029 New Homes, that's 8.30 homes per day 365 days a year. I believe they were down 300 plus homes when compared to 2022 but for all that's going on in the economy not bad at all. The average selling price of new homes as of the end of the 3rd quarter 2023 was up about $8,000 and re-sales down about $6,000.

I have the home sales in 2022 as being 3,923 so about a 23% drop.

[margaretmattson]

Look at all of the Floridians on that board!

I knew that Florida is the leading source of new Villagers, but not by that much.The holidays could be the reason. But, I recently sold my CYV that was near a town square. The entire street was turning into rentals. The majority of the owners were Villagers. I saw new patio villas have been built in Moultrie Creek. Those homes would be prime rentals. Has the investor boom begun in Eastport? I guess future sales boards will tell.

[margaretmattson]

I have the home sales in 2022 as being 3,923 so about a 23% drop.Not surprising. Many posters noticed Lake Denham and Dabney homes have been sitting for months.

[Craig Vernon]

There are 1100 new construction homes in Newell with only 17 left to sell, and in the second quarter of this year 100 more new homes were sold then all the sales throughout TV. Also, the Enclave which is a new Premier neighborhood in Dabney sold out immediately upon release. I’d say sales down south in the new areas are going great!

60 lots available as of today in the Enclave.

[vintageogauge]

Not surprising. Many posters noticed Lake Denham and Dabney homes have been sitting for months.

It takes months to sell out a village, doesn't happen overnight. One thing for sure all of them will be sold.

[frayedends]

It takes months to sell out a village, doesn't happen overnight. One thing for sure all of them will be sold.

My neighborhood in Lake Denham has about 88 houses sold and 47 still to sell. We closed in September. When we closed a majority of the houses were still not listed. There were still many porta potties on the streets for construction. Only the exterior view lots were listed with many still to list. That's only 3 months and it's about 2/3 sold, with the holiday season slowing it down. Sure it's not Richmond, but that's pretty darned fast as far as I'm concerned.

[vintageogauge]

60 lots available as of today in the Enclave.

Those are not premier lots, mostly Dabney el-cheapo interior lots with kissing lanais.

[Normal]

The OP indicated the fall of 2023, not the entire year. This is when the depreciation initiated. Let’s see those last quarter metrics. You know, October, November, December? The Villages is a great place to live, but people need to know the market here has or is driving prices down, that’s all.

Number of homes sold was down 21.5% for November and December of 2023. The market here isn’t impervious to change or depreciation. 74.2% were sold below asking.

The Villages, Florida Housing Market Report December 2023 - RocketHomes (https://www.rockethomes.com/real-estate-trends/fl/the-villages-sumter)

[vintageogauge]

The OP indicated the fall of 2023, not the entire year. This is when the depreciation initiated. Let’s see those last quarter metrics. You know, October, November, December?

They'll be sending those figures out later this month and I as many other owners are on the mailing list.

[vintageogauge]

The OP indicated the fall of 2023, not the entire year. This is when the depreciation initiated. Let’s see those last quarter metrics. You know, October, November, December? The Villages is a great place to live, but people need to know the market here has or is driving prices down, that’s all.

Number of homes sold was down 21.5% for November and December of 2023. The market here isn’t impervious to change or depreciation. 74.2% were sold below asking.

The Villages, Florida Housing Market Report December 2023 - RocketHomes (https://www.rockethomes.com/real-estate-trends/fl/the-villages-sumter)

We are talking about new homes no re-sales.

[Michael 61]

My neighborhood in Lake Denham has about 88 houses sold and 47 still to sell. We closed in September. When we closed a majority of the houses were still not listed. There were still many porta potties on the streets for construction. Only the exterior view lots were listed with many still to list. That's only 3 months and it's about 2/3 sold, with the holiday season slowing it down. Sure it's not Richmond, but that's pretty darned fast as far as I'm concerned.

I think that’s a good call out - Richmond was such an anomaly, and will be again when the last section goes up for sale later this year - some people think that was the “norm” for sales. I think we all agree that sales have slowed a bit, but all the new villages will eventually sellout. People buying in the newer southern villages are doing so with “eyes wide open” and having done their homework. What amenities that are important for some, may not be so important for someone else. I know I like not having a ton of crowded retail space around me, as I barely patronize brick-and- mortar stores anymore, nor do most of my neighbors.

[Normal]

We are talking about new homes no re-sales.

Yes, and resales are almost always propionate to new home sales. When you can buy a comparable unit at a lesser cost it is always enticing to go for the better value. Of course used and new units balance each other. Great point! It will be interesting to see The Villages own paper The Sun and its release too.

[frayedends]

I think that’s a good call out - Richmond was such an anomaly, and will be again when the last section goes up for sale later this year - some people think that was the “norm” for sales. I think we all agree that sales have slowed a bit, but all the new villages will eventually sellout. People buying in the newer southern villages are doing so with “eyes wide open” and having done their homework. What amenities that are important for some, may not be so important for someone else. I know I like not having a ton of crowded retail space around me, as I barely patronize brick-and- mortar stores anymore, nor do most of my neighbors.

Wife and I were just discussing this. Other than restaurants, food shopping, and sometimes clothes, we don't go to retail stores for anything at all. Most clothes are even ordered online. We have no need for much retail being close. We also don't think a 30 minute cart ride to town squares is a big deal. Especially once we are retired and have nothing but time. I mentioned previously (maybe in a different thread) that in Lake Denham we have easy access to Sawgrass, Homestead, Ezel, Franklin as well as the Dabney pool. Brownwood and Eastport a 30 minute cart ride. Plus we walking trails for miles. The area will sell out.

[GoRedSox!]

The folks who live down south don't seem to be selling at a furious pace. I hear nothing but great things from folks who live in St. Catherine's, St. John's, Hawkins, Desoto, particularly Fenney and Hammock at Fenney, Linden, Desoto, Marsh Bend, DeLuna, Cason Hammock, Citrus Grove, etc. I think the factor that could be coming into play somewhat in Newell, Lake Denham and Dabney is a combo of the higher mortgage rates, higher bonds, higher bond interest rates, and Lake County/Leesburg taxes. That being said, we would have bought down there because the homes are nice and so is the area and the people, and pragmatically, that's where the new homes were/are being sold. However, we found a place right near Brownwood that we really liked and bought, but if that wasn't available we would be in Lake Denham right now and I'm sure we would be very happy. I think mortgage rates will continue to fall as 2024 unfolds. Those houses will all sell and we will be on talking about the next village.

[margaretmattson]

I think that’s a good call out - Richmond was such an anomaly, and will be again when the last section goes up for sale later this year - some people think that was the “norm” for sales. I think we all agree that sales have slowed a bit, but all the new villages will eventually sellout. People buying in the newer southern villages are doing so with “eyes wide open” and having done their homework. What amenities that are important for some, may not be so important for someone else. I know I like not having a ton of crowded retail space around me, as I barely patronize brick-and- mortar stores anymore, nor do most of my neighbors.Richmond is close to Brownwood. The anomaly there is that it attracted many investors. First, You can charge a much higher rent than other areas because renters like to be close to the squares. It is also easier to find renters year round. As rental property, they are profit makers.

Second, homes near squares appreciate much faster than homes at a distance. When I left my CYV near a square, the market price was in the high $600,000. It sold in 3 days. CYV in other areas do not command that high price tag. As resales, homes near squares are a gold mine.

Investors know what they are doing! Some even buy 3 or 4 on the same street if the homes are near a square.

Will Richmond sell out quickly, again? Maybe, but this time around, there is more investment profit to be made in the Eastport area. Brownwood is now a square of the past.

I have lived here since early 2000. There have been ups and downs with real estate. Newell, Lake Denham and Dabney is unusual. Available homes are sitting much longer. A yearly drop in sales of 23% supports this. But, this is the first time interest rates have been high.

[margaretmattson]

Wife and I were just discussing this. Other than restaurants, food shopping, and sometimes clothes, we don't go to retail stores for anything at all. Most clothes are even ordered online. We have no need for much retail being close. We also don't think a 30 minute cart ride to town squares is a big deal. Especially once we are retired and have nothing but time. I mentioned previously (maybe in a different thread) that in Lake Denham we have easy access to Sawgrass, Homestead, Ezel, Franklin as well as the Dabney pool. Brownwood and Eastport a 30 minute cart ride. Plus we walking trails for miles. The area will sell out.Homes near squares provide an ease of living. Restaurants, grocery stores, doctors, and gas to fill your golf cart is minutes away. Some residents are still employed and can easily walk to work. If you like to get out of your home and stretch your legs, a square is a wonderful place to do that. Your walk is scenic and fun. When attending special events, you do not have to stress about traffic and parking. Out enjoying a fun game of pickleball or a round of golf? You can easily pick up necessities or take out on the way home. Out of town guests? Hotels are a stone throw away. Going to the airport? Transportation pick up is at your doorstep. Everything you need is within walking distance or a 5 minute drive by golf cart.

[frayedends]

Homes near squares provide an ease of living. Restaurants, grocery stores, doctors, and gas to fill your golf cart is minutes away. Some residents are still employed and can easily walk to work. If you like to get out of your home and stretch your legs, a square is a wonderful place to do that. Your walk is scenic and fun. When attending special events, you do not have to stress about traffic and parking. Out enjoying a fun game of pickleball or a round of golf? You can easily pick up necessities or take out on the way home. Out of town guests? Hotels are a stone throw away. Going to the airport? Transportation pick up is at your doorstep. Everything you need is within walking distance or a 5 minute drive by golf cart.

I guess I'm just used to living in the boonies so 30 minutes by golf cart doesn't seem like a big deal to me. For stretching my legs, I'd much rather the miles of walking paths along the preserve behind us.

Add to that the posts about proximity to town squares attracting rental investors, and the complaints I see about renters, I'm glad to be in a place that is not great for rentals.

[twoplanekid]

For those looking at historical new home sales from the beginning of the Villages taken from page 43 of the SLCDD 9/10/2015 Agenda PDF plus additional years I have added from Daily Sun published reports.

The information appearing herein regarding The Villages and the Developer has been furnished by the Developer.
Historical annual home closings and historical annual average sales prices (home and lot) in The Villages are as follows:

Year Homes Sold (Home and Lot) Average Sale Price
1986 511 *
1987 543 *
1988 517 *
1989 542 $ 74,000
1990 502 79,000
1991 430 81,000
1992 562 87,000
1993 567 93,000
1994 686 98,000
1995 700 106,000
1996 753 115,000
1997 1,054 119,000
1998 1,321 129,000
1999 1,544 139,000
2000 1,776 151,000
2001 2,074 156,000
2002 2,260 163,000
2003 3,329 168,000
2004 3,955 204,000
2005 4,263 232,000
2006 3,935 257,000
2007 2,403 251,000
2008 2,236 231,000
2009 2,115 229,000
2010 2,208 231,000
2011 2,307 241,000
2012 2,850 244,000
2013 3,419 271,000
2014 2,601 304,000
2015 2,294 304,000
2016 1,966
2017 2,231
2018 2,134 281,000
2019 2,429 307,000
2020 2,452
2021 4,004
2022 3,923
2023 3,029

Note that 2005 new home sales of 4,263 have yet to be beat. I do enjoy looking at the all data of this unique community called The Villages.

More info from RCLCO
30th Edition: The Top-Selling Master-Planned Communities of 2023 (https://www.rclco.com/publication/30th-edition-of-the-top-selling-master-planned-communities-report-year-end-2023/)

[vintageogauge]

Homes near squares provide an ease of living. Restaurants, grocery stores, doctors, and gas to fill your golf cart is minutes away. Some residents are still employed and can easily walk to work. If you like to get out of your home and stretch your legs, a square is a wonderful place to do that. Your walk is scenic and fun. When attending special events, you do not have to stress about traffic and parking. Out enjoying a fun game of pickleball or a round of golf? You can easily pick up necessities or take out on the way home. Out of town guests? Hotels are a stone throw away. Going to the airport? Transportation pick up is at your doorstep. Everything you need is within walking distance or a 5 minute drive by golf cart.

Homes within walking distance to the squares are too busy and too noisy for me, before buying we rented in those areas several times. I have no problem driving 10 minutes to doctors, restaurants, etc., and down here it's only 3 or 4 minutes to groceries and fuel. If I want to stretch my legs shaded walking trails are for me, I didn't enjoy all the traffic along the sidewalks near the squares when walking, again, too noisy and especially with all of the 90+ degree days we have for 8 months a year trains in nature are much better. Hotels are also 10 minutes from here, airport transportation picks up at our doorstep or we leave our car at the Brownwood Hotel again 10 minutes away. I'm sure there are those that like living within walking distance to a square but my guess is there are many more that would prefer a more peaceful environment.

[margaretmattson]

Homes within walking distance to the squares are too busy and too noisy for me, before buying we rented in those areas several times. I have no problem driving 10 minutes to doctors, restaurants, etc., and down here it's only 3 or 4 minutes to groceries and fuel. If I want to stretch my legs shaded walking trails are for me, I didn't enjoy all the traffic along the sidewalks near the squares when walking, again, too noisy and especially with all of the 90+ degree days we have for 8 months a year trains in nature are much better. Hotels are also 10 minutes from here, airport transportation picks up at our doorstep or we leave our car at the Brownwood Hotel again 10 minutes away. I'm sure there are those that like living within walking distance to a square but my guess is there are many more that would prefer a more peaceful environment.After 23 yrs of living here, my favorite walk is around LSL. Start at the picnic tables, enter the vast gardens, stroll across the wooden bridge and watch the waterfall, cross over to the lake, watch the amazing sunset, gander at the turtles in the lake. Turn around, stop for some ice cream, stroll the shops or listen to music from afar. In my opinion, the best walk in the Villages.

[margaretmattson]

I guess I'm just used to living in the boonies so 30 minutes by golf cart doesn't seem like a big deal to me. For stretching my legs, I'd much rather the miles of walking paths along the preserve behind us.

Add to that the posts about proximity to town squares attracting rental investors, and the complaints I see about renters, I'm glad to be in a place that is not great for rentals.I had to leave my home near a square because of many rental properties. Your instinct is spot on. Living there became a nightmare!

[MrChip72]

I had to leave my home near a square because of many rental properties. Your instinct is spot on. Living there became a nightmare!

How did the rental properties make it a nightmare? Which village? My area has some rentals here and there and the tenants don't really act different than the homeowners.

[GoRedSox!]

We are right next to Brownwood and very happy. We were greeted by the welcome wagon on the day we closed with a warm welcome and cookies. That's never happened to us before. There is an AED program here and what seems to be a wonderful community spirit. I don't think it's overly busy or noisy at all. Everyone is friendly. Everyone has different tastes and interests and that's what makes the world go 'round. I think there is a great place for everyone here and while there are different opinions, the truth be told, they are all nice. And if you find out you prefer another area, folks have no problem moving. It's all good.