Airport car park fire shuts down airport (guess why?)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

VIDEO: Luton airport plunged into chaos as massive fire suspends all flights - (https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/VIDEO-Luton-airport-plunged-into-chaos-as-massive-fire-suspends-all-flights)

According to sources from the emergency services, the source of the fire is from the Tesla charge point on the top floor of the car park, where an electric car was left on charge and overheated causing the lithium battery to explode.


However, turns out that it was a range rover hybrid charging. Lithium ion not the best to leave charging

[Bill14564]

VIDEO: Luton airport plunged into chaos as massive fire suspends all flights - (https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/VIDEO-Luton-airport-plunged-into-chaos-as-massive-fire-suspends-all-flights)



However, turns out that it was a range rover hybrid charging. Lithium ion not the best to leave charging

From a Reuters article:

"The fire service can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car," the local fire authority said, adding that it would investigate the exact cause.

Though maybe Range Rover has a plug-in diesel hybrid

[Pugchief]

I have a Tesla UpNorth, and left it plugged in for 5.5 months while in TV last winter. Tesla recommends the charge be set to 50% during extended absences. Did not have any issues. Obviously anecdotal, but if you read the Tesla forums, people do this all the time.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

From a Reuters article:

"The fire service can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car," the local fire authority said, adding that it would investigate the exact cause.

Though maybe Range Rover has a plug-in diesel hybrid

diesel flashpoint is in the 130 degree+ range.
if you have a cup of diesel at 70 degrees, you can put a match out in it.

diesel has to be hot to burn /

gasoline flashpoint below zero, gasoline ignites very easily

so diesel doesn't spontaneously combust,
but a hybrid with a battery, diesel might be irrelevant

[Bill14564]

diesel flashpoint is in the 130 degree+ range.
if you have a cup of diesel at 70 degrees, you can put a match out in it.

diesel has to be hot to burn /

gasoline flashpoint below zero, gasoline ignites very easily

so diesel doesn't spontaneously combust,
but a hybrid with a battery, diesel might be irrelevant

Are you attempting to dispute the statement from the local fire authority or agree that Range Rover might have a plugin diesel hybrid (the Land Rover site implies they do not)?

Odd, but not impossible, that the local fire authority would not mention that a lithium battery might have been involved.

[Altavia]

...


Odd, but not impossible, that the local fire authority would not mention that a lithium battery might have been involved.


https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-11/fire-service-chief-cause-of-luton-airport-car-park-fire#

AA technical expert Greg Carter said the most common cause of car fires is an electrical fault with the 12-volt battery system.
.

I'm aware of a car fire traced to a USB lithium charging pack left connected in a car, overheating and causing a fire. You've probably heard of similar events on aircraft.

[Caymus]

diesel flashpoint is in the 130 degree+ range.
if you have a cup of diesel at 70 degrees, you can put a match out in it.

diesel has to be hot to burn /

gasoline flashpoint below zero, gasoline ignites very easily

so diesel doesn't spontaneously combust,
but a hybrid with a battery, diesel might be irrelevant

Plus, diesel is nearly identical to home heating oil. Many people in the North have tanks full of it in their basements.

[Dusty_Star]

They're saying maybe 1,500 cars have been damaged. What a nightmare. Also, I saw they said some perhaps undamaged cars may be lost due to the parking garage needing to be demolished & recovering the cars might be too dangerous.

[ThirdOfFive]

Plus, diesel is nearly identical to home heating oil. Many people in the North have tanks full of it in their basements.
Yep.

Back UpNort, 50-odd years ago now, I spent some time as a logger. Not uncommon to go to work in January when the temp. was -30 and even lower. Our equipment was all diesel, and often as not it didn't want to start in those temps, so we'd have to warm them up before starting them. One accepted way was to build a little fire under the oil pan. Took maybe 1/2 hour at most and they'd start right up. You'd NEVER want to do that with a gasoline engine.

[Stu from NYC]

Good grief

[tophcfa]

Yep.

Back UpNort, 50-odd years ago now, I spent some time as a logger. Not uncommon to go to work in January when the temp. was -30 and even lower. Our equipment was all diesel, and often as not it didn't want to start in those temps, so we'd have to warm them up before starting them. One accepted way was to build a little fire under the oil pan. Took maybe 1/2 hour at most and they'd start right up. You'd NEVER want to do that with a gasoline engine.

I have to plug in my tractor to heat up the engine block when the temperature drops below 10 degrees to prevent the diesel fuel from gelling up when I need to fire her up to plow the snow. Or should I say, I used to have to. Now I hope to be in the Villages when it’s anywhere near that cold outside up north, swimming laps in a heated outside pool and playing golf.

[Two Bills]

Yep.

Back UpNort, 50-odd years ago now, I spent some time as a logger. Not uncommon to go to work in January when the temp. was -30 and even lower. Our equipment was all diesel, and often as not it didn't want to start in those temps, so we'd have to warm them up before starting them. One accepted way was to build a little fire under the oil pan. Took maybe 1/2 hour at most and they'd start right up. You'd NEVER want to do that with a gasoline engine.

Many moons ago when I was working in farming, we used to hold burning paper roll over air intake on freezing days when starting diesel tractors.
Used to put some gas in diesel as well, to stop it turning to gel when freezing.
Both 'tricks' worked well.

[tophcfa]

Many moons ago when I was working in farming, we used to hold burning paper roll over air intake on freezing days when starting diesel tractors.
Used to put some gas in diesel as well, to stop it turning to gel when freezing.
Both 'tricks' worked well.

Fuel additive to prevent gelling, way better than putting gas in the diesel. Gas can damage a diesel engine.

[John Mayes]

From a Reuters article:

"The fire service can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car," the local fire authority said, adding that it would investigate the exact cause.

Though maybe Range Rover has a plug-in diesel hybrid

They do produce a mild-hybrid diesel for the UK/European market.

[Bill14564]

They do produce a mild-hybrid diesel for the UK/European market.

But that doesn’t plug in (though there have been fires in “plain” hybrids too)

[John Mayes]

But that doesn’t plug in (though there have been fires in “plain” hybrids too)

You’re right, the MHEV does not plug in but there have been fire concerns with the technology. They conducted a recall earlier for fire cases.

[ThirdOfFive]

Many moons ago when I was working in farming, we used to hold burning paper roll over air intake on freezing days when starting diesel tractors.
Used to put some gas in diesel as well, to stop it turning to gel when freezing.
Both 'tricks' worked well.
We used to put in a fuel additive the night before a cold snap was expected and then run the machine for about 10 minutes to make sure all of the fuel was treated. I did know some folks who used gasoline and apparently that worked for them.

[Caymus]

You’re right, the MHEV does not plug in but there have been fire concerns with the technology. They conducted a recall earlier for fire cases.


Do they have EV type lithium batteries?

[Two Bills]

Fuel additive to prevent gelling, way better than putting gas in the diesel. Gas can damage a diesel engine.

I am talking about back in the early 60's.
Farmer I started with had tractors dating back to the 40's.
No way would he have spent a dime on 'Fancy Dan' additives when gas had always worked.
The place, was held together with baling twine as well, but the mean, cantankerous old $£%$&&! new more about livestock than anyone else, including the vet.
That's why I worked for him. Just for his knowledge.

[John Mayes]

Do they have EV type lithium batteries?

Yes, 48V lithium.

[Two Bills]

Diesel is the winner according to BBC.

What caused the Luton Airport fire and what happens next? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67077996)

[Topspinmo]

We used to put in a fuel additive the night before a cold snap was expected and then run the machine for about 10 minutes to make sure all of the fuel was treated. I did know some folks who used gasoline and apparently that worked for them.

Gasoline dangerous in diesel can cause engine to run away rpm’s. If get too much.

[Topspinmo]

They're saying maybe 1,500 cars have been damaged. What a nightmare. Also, I saw they said some perhaps undamaged cars may be lost due to the parking garage needing to be demolished & recovering the cars might be too dangerous.

If that many vehicles was damaged IMO would be hard to pin point cause unless someone was there when it started.

I am surprised we don’t have more gasoline related fires now that most all vehicles are high pressure fuel injected.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Diesel is the winner according to BBC.

What caused the Luton Airport fire and what happens next? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67077996)

There is no cause, there is just a description of the events, with two "thought to be"s assumptions.
The unknown cause was clearly stated in the article, however diesel doesn't not spontaneously combust, so still focused on the battery

[Bill14564]

There is no cause, there is just a description of the events, with two "thought to be"s assumptions.
The unknown cause was clearly stated in the article, however diesel doesn't not spontaneously combust, so still focused on the battery

Yet the only battery mentioned was the 12V system.

There is little or no knowledge yet of what actually caused the fire. But, that includes no reason to suspect that it was in any way related to charging or lithium batteries.

[Blackbird45]

Enough already, I do not own an EV, but this is getting boring.
This subject is an ongoing at lease, once a month someone will come on here and blame EVs for everything short of JFK's assignation.

[sdeikenberry]

VIDEO: Luton airport plunged into chaos as massive fire suspends all flights - (https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/VIDEO-Luton-airport-plunged-into-chaos-as-massive-fire-suspends-all-flights)

However, turns out that it was a range rover hybrid charging. Lithium ion not the best to leave charging

Turns out the author didn't bother to check his references. Actually, the fire started with a diesel vehicle, and no EV was the source, according to the fire department:

Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service revealed on Wednesday morning the cause of the blaze was a diesel car. “We don't believe it was an electric vehicle,” Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said.

[Captainpd]

Yep.

Back UpNort, 50-odd years ago now, I spent some time as a logger. Not uncommon to go to work in January when the temp. was -30 and even lower. Our equipment was all diesel, and often as not it didn't want to start in those temps, so we'd have to warm them up before starting them. One accepted way was to build a little fire under the oil pan. Took maybe 1/2 hour at most and they'd start right up. You'd NEVER want to do that with a gasoline engine.
Not sure what you did 50 years ago has to do with this post.

[Captainpd]

Many moons ago when I was working in farming, we used to hold burning paper roll over air intake on freezing days when starting diesel tractors.
Used to put some gas in diesel as well, to stop it turning to gel when freezing.
Both 'tricks' worked well.
And what does this have to do with the fire at the airport. Thread drift at its best

[Eclas]

Enough already, I do not own an EV, but this is getting boring.
This subject is an ongoing at lease, once a month someone will come on here and blame EVs for everything short of JFK's assignation.

Pretty sure Lee Harvey Oswald drove an experimental EV to the book building.

[Oneiric]

Recent fire at Wesley Chapel BMW consumed 10 cars in parking garage. Thought to be due to Lithium battery.

[Bill14564]

Recent fire at Wesley Chapel BMW consumed 10 cars in parking garage. Thought to be due to Lithium battery.

Thought by whom to be due to lithium battery? Has there been any reporting on that or just speculation that a car fire must have been caused by the latest boogeyman?

[airstreamingypsy]

Thought by whom to be due to lithium battery? Has there been any reporting on that or just speculation that a car fire must have been caused by the latest boogeyman?

Bingo, we have a winner....

[Captainpd]

We used to put in a fuel additive the night before a cold snap was expected and then run the machine for about 10 minutes to make sure all of the fuel was treated. I did know some folks who used gasoline and apparently that worked for them.
What does this have to do with the topic

[Vermilion Villager]

VIDEO: Luton airport plunged into chaos as massive fire suspends all flights - (https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/VIDEO-Luton-airport-plunged-into-chaos-as-massive-fire-suspends-all-flights)



However, turns out that it was a range rover hybrid charging. Lithium ion not the best to leave charging
1. Sounds like you got fact checked and BUSTED in real time on this one!:cryin2:chilout
2. I find it mildly amusing that now all the lithium battery deniers are shifting the topic to diesel fuel and diesel fuel additives… Etc… Etc:BigApplause:

[Captainpd]

We used to put in a fuel additive the night before a cold snap was expected and then run the machine for about 10 minutes to make sure all of the fuel was treated. I did know some folks who used gasoline and apparently that worked for them.
What does this have to do with this topic

[Captainpd]

Yep.

Back UpNort, 50-odd years ago now, I spent some time as a logger. Not uncommon to go to work in January when the temp. was -30 and even lower. Our equipment was all diesel, and often as not it didn't want to start in those temps, so we'd have to warm them up before starting them. One accepted way was to build a little fire under the oil pan. Took maybe 1/2 hour at most and they'd start right up. You'd NEVER want to do that with a gasoline engine.

What does this have to do with the topic

[Captainpd]

Doesn't apply to this topic. Start another topic for your comments

[DPWM21]

In aviation, every plane mishap is scrutinized to learn.

Here is an interesting article about early driving issues:
In the 1910s, speeding, reckless driving, collisions, and pedestrian fatalities were new problems requiring new solutions. The first remedies comprised a social response focused on controlling and improving driver behavior.
Automobile Safety | National Museum of American History

[Indydealmaker]

Are you attempting to dispute the statement from the local fire authority or agree that Range Rover might have a plugin diesel hybrid (the Land Rover site implies they do not)?

Odd, but not impossible, that the local fire authority would not mention that a lithium battery might have been involved.

Truth is always colored by politics.

[RICH1]

DIESEL was the cause , electric car haters

[Altavia]

DIESEL was the cause , electric car haters

Can happen to any vehicle.

AA technical expert Greg Carter said the most common cause of car fires is an electrical fault with the 12-volt battery system.

[Oneiric]

Thought by whom to be due to lithium battery? Has there been any reporting on that or just speculation that a car fire must have been caused by the latest boogeyman? No boogeyman. None of the BMW's were diesel and most were EV.

[vinnytalk]

I have a Tesla UpNorth, and left it plugged in for 5.5 months while in TV last winter. Tesla recommends the charge be set to 50% during extended absences. Did not have any issues. Obviously anecdotal, but if you read the Tesla forums, people do this all the time.

Every auto doesn't go on fire, but there has been numerous cases where they did go on fire, and many cases where the electric bikes and scooters has gone on fire.
You are one of he lucky ones

[Blackbird45]

Are there EV fire yes, are there ICE fires yes. EVs are under a microscope right now and for those who are staunch ICE supporters if someone gets a head cold in Maine in the middle of winter it must be linked to an EV.

[Bill14564]

No boogeyman. None of the BMW's were diesel and most were EV.

Personal knowledge, reported fact, or just more speculation?

And, is there any evidence an EV was responsible for the fire? Another thread had statistics showing ICE cars were responsible foe 100 times as many fires as EVs.

[elevatorman]

I went to an NFL game years ago and a bunch of cars caught fire during the game. It could have been a lithium battery. But it was more likely the charcoal grill that the tailgater put in the back of his SUV so they could get in and see the kickoff.

[Caymus]

Personal knowledge, reported fact, or just more speculation?

And, is there any evidence an EV was responsible for the fire? Another thread had statistics showing ICE cars were responsible foe 100 times as many fires as EVs.

Probably a lot more than 100 times ICE vs pure EVs on the road.

Would like to see a breakdown on the cause of the fires. ICE fires are probably mainly due to accidents/collisions. EVs probably lead in "spontaneous combustions" type fires. For instance, weren't Chevy Bolt owners instructed not to park them in a garage?

[Tvflguy]

Personally I dislike “haters”. No matter the topic they tend to overlook or dispute facts and simply spew their potentially baseless views. Not simply false views, but ones that completely overlook the true facts.

Of course this applies to the current Middle East situation but also EVs. A bit of research on this particular fire shows the Range Rover engulfed in flames which started the entire parking garage fire. A cell video shows it completely. Copied below. And fact that Range/Land Rover vehicles (which are non-EV) have these combustible histories.

But what do the Haters do and state? Yep…. Jump on their deep-seated biases…. And still not accept proven facts.

Humans are fallible. But when their biases cloud truth and facts….

Here's the car that sparked a massive 1,500-vehicle fire at London airport car park - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/12/heres-the-car-that-sparked-a-massive-1500-vehicle-fire-at-london-airport-car-park/)

[keepsake]

Am I correct ?

Hybrids do not charge at a plug-in station, only from the ICE engine when driven ?

Or is it some do, some don't ?

[bopat]

I just learned my cell phone has a lithium battery in it.

Guess I'll have to switch to gas or diesel powered cell phone.

[eyc234]

Personally I dislike “haters”. No matter the topic they tend to overlook or dispute facts and simply spew their potentially baseless views. Not simply false views, but ones that completely overlook the true facts.

Of course this applies to the current Middle East situation but also EVs. A bit of research on this particular fire shows the Range Rover engulfed in flames which started the entire parking garage fire. A cell video shows it completely. Copied below. And fact that Range/Land Rover vehicles (which are non-EV) have these combustible histories.

But what do the Haters do and state? Yep…. Jump on their deep-seated biases…. And still not accept proven facts.

Humans are fallible. But when their biases cloud truth and facts….

Here's the car that sparked a massive 1,500-vehicle fire at London airport car park - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/12/heres-the-car-that-sparked-a-massive-1500-vehicle-fire-at-london-airport-car-park/)


:yuck: You should know better than to go out and find facts and truths. Now this discussion can not go one for 100 pages.