Gas Hot Water Pilot Light Out

[mtdjed]

Noticed that the hot water was only warm last night after rain and wind. Turned off gas rather than try to reignite late evening. Never had this happen before. Read instructions this AM which states to reignite, turn gas control off, set Temperature dial to Pilot. Make sure no gas smell.

Then move gas control to pilot and press the Ignitor 3 or four times.

My concern is what would cause the Pilot light to go out in the first place? Is there any chance a downdraft could do that? Never happened before on this water heater. Any chance something more sinister is lurking in the background?

Any Thoughts appreciated.

[dewilson58]

No expert here, but I have had a downdraft blow out a pilot up North.

Thankfully, the new equipment shuts off the gas.

Nicely done on the restart.

[Toymeister]

Your thermocouple is bad. About a three on the 1 - 10 DIY difficulty scale. Fairly easy to replace. You just need to know the length. This link has several.


Zero 36" Universal Replacement Thermocouple For Gas Furnaces,Boilers And Water Heater,Compatible With Honeywell,Mars,Johnson,Robertshaw,Penn,Johnstone, Johnson Controls Thermocouple https://a.co/d/2KWAFjE

[TommyT]

DIY.... watch this YouTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6740Q-x5RZ0

[RICH1]

THERMO couple …BAD

[rjm1cc]

Mine uses an electric spark. Had plumber come to light as I could not get it to work. He said they get rusty from moisture over the years and it took him a few minutes of trying until he got it to work. Consider using a match if you can not get the spark. Waite about a minute between tries to let gas air out.

[ThirdOfFive]

Garage door open? Some pretty good gusts yesterday.

[mtdjed]

Your thermocouple is bad. About a three on the 1 - 10 DIY difficulty scale. Fairly easy to replace. You just need to know the length. This link has several.


Zero 36" Universal Replacement Thermocouple For Gas Furnaces,Boilers And Water Heater,Compatible With Honeywell,Mars,Johnson,Robertshaw,Penn,Johnstone, Johnson Controls Thermocouple https://a.co/d/2KWAFjE

I tried to restart and got pilot light on but it won't stay on when button released. I chose to call plumber not to be named. They sent two young technician's out and they played with the starter and told me no spark and no gas flow and that repair cost would be half the new price. I knew that was incorrect and contacted a friend who had same situation last week and corrected it by replacing the Pilot assembly which includes ignitor line, Thermocouple, and pilot gas tube line. I removed the burner assembly and awaiting my next day delivery from Amazon of my $32 Pilot assembly.

[mtdjed]

So, the question is who is right. Is it the experts who say $500 to fix or $1500 to replace?

Or is it the stellar advice of our constituents. Is my bill $32, $500, $1500?

Results Sunday (low) or Monday.

[Bill14564]

So, the question is who is right. Is it the experts who say $500 to fix or $1500 to replace?

Or is it the stellar advice of our constituents. Is my bill $32, $500, $1500?

Results Sunday (low) or Monday.

If you were able to get any flame at all then gas is flowing contrary to what the technicians reported. If the pilot will not stay lit then it is very likely the thermocouple as Toymeister said.

There is a slight chance the pilot orifice is slightly blocked so that the flame is less than it should be or that the thermocouple is dirty and not getting warm enough. For $32 you can resolve both of those at the same time.

[Hape2Bhr]

I tried to restart and got pilot light on but it won't stay on when button released. I chose to call plumber not to be named. They sent two young technician's out and they played with the starter and told me no spark and no gas flow and that repair cost would be half the new price. I knew that was incorrect and contacted a friend who had same situation last week and corrected it by replacing the Pilot assembly which includes ignitor line, Thermocouple, and pilot gas tube line. I removed the burner assembly and awaiting my next day delivery from Amazon of my $32 Pilot assembly.

After lighting your pilot, hold the gas button in for 20 seconds before releasing. The thermocouple needs to warm up enough to produce a current. :cold:

[mtdjed]

So, the question is who is right. Is it the experts who say $500 to fix or $1500 to replace?

Or is it the stellar advice of our constituents. Is my bill $32, $500, $1500?

Results Sunday (low) or Monday.

Update - Sunday evening the new Pilot assembly from AMAZON arrived (Cost $32).

I had already removed burner assembly (to which the Pilot assembly is attached by two Phillips sheet metal screws.) I was sharing update with a neighbor by showing him the removed assembly. He noted (Good Eyes) that the thermocouple had a resister (I think) that was connecting two pieces of the thermocouple had separated. Aha, no wonder the thermocouple wasn't sending a signal to the control. Perhaps a continuity check by technicians from Plumber Mixxx (Whoops I said I wouldn't mention the name) would have found that problem.

Any way, I got firm instructions my significant other, that I was not to install tonight while she was in the house. So tonight was another cold shower.

Anyway, new Pilot Assembly now attached to burner assembly, and ready to be inserted into WH, making sure bracket anchors, lock into position with view glass plate. Then connect to Control Unit. Then the test, ignite pilot, hopefully it will remain lit, and turn on Burner. Chek to insure connections are not leaking.

By the way, I wonder how many people have bought new hot water heaters because of similar plumbing company advice. Maybe when I press the start button I won't wonder anymore.

[Toymeister]

With all respect I wonder why you had a plumber out when so many of us told you what the problem was? You did come to this thread seeking opinions. Frankly when so many on this forum agree it's close to miraculous.

[mtdjed]

With all respect I wonder why you had a plumber out when so many of us told you what the problem was? You did come to this thread seeking opinions. Frankly when so many on this forum agree it's close to miraculous.

There are reasons for everything. Primarily, given the encouragement from the TOTV forum, I expected a cheap professional repair in a situation where my wife was conducting a garage sale for two days rather than me causing her to cancel the garage sale due to me working on a hot water heater where I had no experience.
My shock came when two technicians arrived and talked $500 repair or better yet a new $1250 water heater. When I mentioned thermcouple replacement , they said much more was involved. At that point I decided that I would pursue the item myself based upon TOTV and a nearby friend who had just experienced a similar situation.

Anyway replaced the Pilot assembly which was $32 from AMAZON and it included Themocouple, Pilot gas line and Line for the spark.

Unit now working fine.

[village dreamer]

sounds like your thermocouple has a thermal fuse. its made to burn out and stop main burner from coming on. sometimes water heaters,the inside vent line [shaped like a donut] will crush and wont vent the hot gass out and the main burner will come on and burn the thermal fuse. need new water heater.

[Toymeister]

sounds like your thermocouple has a thermal fuse. its made to burn out and stop main burner from coming on. sometimes water heaters,the inside vent line [shaped like a donut] will crush and wont vent the hot gass out and the main burner will come on and burn the thermal fuse. need new water heater.

Fortunately the OP heeded the advise on this forum and replaced the thermocouple which repaired his WH.

I have never heard of a thermal fuse on a gas WH. Neither has Google.

GAS WH not ELECTRIC

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by village dreamer View Post
sounds like your thermocouple has a thermal fuse. its made to burn out and stop main burner from coming on. sometimes water heaters,the inside vent line [shaped like a donut] will crush and wont vent the hot gass out and the main burner will come on and burn the thermal fuse. need new water heater.
Fortunately the OP heeded the advise on this forum and replaced the thermocouple which repaired his WH.

I have never heard of a thermal fuse on a gas WH. Neither has Google.

GAS WH not ELECTRIC

The part that showed damage on the thermocouple is shown on the following picture of the replacement Pilot assembly. The thermocouple is the copper colored line. That line has a round black item near bottom of picture connecting two parts of the thermocouple. One of the connector wires was unattached. I assumed it might be a resistor. Could have been damaged during removal but don't think so.

Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Assembly-100109295-9003542005-Compatible-190-Degree/dp/B09D2RJB9N?pd_rd_w=iuBla&content-id=amzn1.sym.d7105005-1122-4ebb-804b-fda01cf6b56f&pf_rd_p=d7105005-1122-4ebb-804b-fda01cf6b56f&pf_rd_r=8AN0V7VARERC58VRW611&pd_rd_wg=crv3g&pd_rd_r=914d3e48-1770-4168-ba23-3c94c51a7e3a&pd_rd_i=B09D2RJB9N&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_i)


So, if it is a thermal fuse, I guess it will fail again since the new part has the same item. We had no issue of excessively hot water prior to failure.

[Bill14564]

The part that showed damage on the thermocouple is shown on the following picture of the replacement Pilot assembly. The thermocouple is the copper colored line. That line has a round black item near bottom of picture connecting two parts of the thermocouple. One of the connector wires was unattached. I assumed it might be a resistor. Could have been damaged during removal but don't think so.

Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Assembly-100109295-9003542005-Compatible-190-Degree/dp/B09D2RJB9N?pd_rd_w=iuBla&content-id=amzn1.sym.d7105005-1122-4ebb-804b-fda01cf6b56f&pf_rd_p=d7105005-1122-4ebb-804b-fda01cf6b56f&pf_rd_r=8AN0V7VARERC58VRW611&pd_rd_wg=crv3g&pd_rd_r=914d3e48-1770-4168-ba23-3c94c51a7e3a&pd_rd_i=B09D2RJB9N&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_i)


So, if it is a thermal fuse, I guess it will fail again since the new part has the same item. We had no issue of excessively hot water prior to failure.

Here is a page (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/129989/what-is-this-component-in-series-with-my-water-heaters-thermocouple) with a discussion of the fuse. It looks like the part used in the example is the part you purchased.

From an A.O. Smith page (https://www.aosmithatlowes.com/learn-more/gas-water-heaters/glossary/) (may not be the same device since this mentions replacing the thermostat and not the thermocouple):
Energy Cutoff Switch (ECO)
Gas water heater safety device that shuts off the gas supply to the unit if water temperature exceeds 190°F. The ECO is a single-use switch and requires complete replacement of the entire thermostat if activated.

[mtdjed]

Summary of my opening this thread and knowledge gained

1/ Not all of us are knowledgeable or capable of diagnosing problems and repair.

2/ Even with knowledge ie Need Thermocouple replaced, some contractors in The Villages quoted high repair cost, or suggested buy new. Prices for repair excessive $500 to $900. New $1250 to $2500.

3/For the most part, water heaters are simple. A big tank holding water. The working parts are a control and a burner and a connecting device.

4/ A call to one of the respected plumbers may not yield a good answer. And their show up fee exceeds the cost of many repairs. I paid $97 to a contractor, got an improper diagnosis and a sales pitch. Using advise from TOTV I knew I was being scammed and chose to explore . With help from a neighbor made repair at a cost of $32.

5/ Be cautious.

[Toymeister]

6/ Sometimes you get horrible advice on TOTV i.e. thermal fuses do not exist on GAS water heaters.

[mtdjed]

Here is a page (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/129989/what-is-this-component-in-series-with-my-water-heaters-thermocouple) with a discussion of the fuse. It looks like the part used in the example is the part you purchased.

From an A.O. Smith page (https://www.aosmithatlowes.com/learn-more/gas-water-heaters/glossary/) (may not be the same device since this mentions replacing the thermostat and not the thermocouple):
Energy Cutoff Switch (ECO)
Gas water heater safety device that shuts off the gas supply to the unit if water temperature exceeds 190°F. The ECO is a single-use switch and requires complete replacement of the entire thermostat if activated.

Well, if the item on the thermalcouple measures water temperature over 190 Degrees F, it sure seems like it is in the wrong place since it is in the combustion chamber.

[Bill14564]

Well, if the item on the thermalcouple measures water temperature over 190 Degrees F, it sure seems like it is in the wrong place since it is in the combustion chamber.

Yeah, it might not be the same as the ECO.