How long before its an issue here in TV?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

is the rapid building here in central rural florida threatening the water supply?

Cape Coral homeowners dealing with dried-up wells - WINK News (https://winknews.com/2023/04/20/cape-coral-homeowners-dealing-with-dried-up-wells/)

[justjim]

Cape Coral is on the gulf side of Florida near Fort Myers. Attempting to compare Cape Coral water supply to Central Florida is as different as apples and oranges. Bottom line: Cape Coral available water supply has nothing at all to do with the available water in Central Florida.

[Bill14564]

Cape Coral is on the gulf side of Florida near Fort Myers. Attempting to compare Cape Coral water supply to Central Florida is as different as apples and oranges. Bottom line: Cape Coral available water supply has nothing at all to do with the available water in Central Florida.

Increasing population using more and more water from an aquifer is not unique to the gulf side of Florida. Perhaps a different aquifer (still checking on that) but the concept is the same.

I thought I saw a study, probably from NSCUDD, about the amount of water they were pulling from the aquifer compared to what they have been allotted. I'm still looking for that as well.

[dewilson58]

9 years, 4 months, 16 days.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

9 years, 4 months, 16 days.

identified as a :22yikes: -->> Mr Cryptic, not Mr Helpful

[Bogie Shooter]

9 years, 4 months, 16 days.

I recalculated using the data you provided and I believe you are off by 17 day and 3 hours.:):ho:

[asianthree]

Better yet how many will take a dirt nap, before this will be an issue in TV

[golfing eagles]

is the rapid building here in central rural florida threatening the water supply?

Cape Coral homeowners dealing with dried-up wells - WINK News (https://winknews.com/2023/04/20/cape-coral-homeowners-dealing-with-dried-up-wells/)

The good news---according to the USGS, the deep Florida aquifer extends to Nebraska.

[twoplanekid]

Village District staff says that "Water Source: Municipalities most concerned about climate change are those that use surface water. NSCUDD system uses Lower Florida wells (old aquifers) ground water that won’t be affected by seasonal drought conditions. "

Staff and our consultants insist that NSCUDD will never run out of water. However, sometimes SWFWMD restricts our water usage because other areas that they control have issues with limited water resources. For some reason they must issue a area wide advisory or restriction on water usage that would/could include us along with the low on water areas.

At least that is my understanding of what happens.

[Bill14564]

The good news---according to the USGS, the deep Florida aquifer extends to Nebraska.

I was thinking of the Floridian aquifer.
USGS: Floridian Aquifer (https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/floridan-aquifer-system)
USGS: Aquifers of the US (https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/principal-aquifers-united-states)

There must be another.

[golfing eagles]

I was thinking of the Floridian aquifer.
USGS: Floridian Aquifer (https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/floridan-aquifer-system)
USGS: Aquifers of the US (https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/principal-aquifers-united-states)

There must be another.

Doubt it. I had seen that extent a few years ago and I don't know on which site, so I think your map is accurate.

[Stu from NYC]

The good news---according to the USGS, the deep Florida aquifer extends to Nebraska.

Does this mean that some of the water we drink comes from Nebraska where they have more cows than people? Makes bottled water seem more attractive.:bigbow:

[star20166@yahoo.com]

Water availability will become the world's number1 priority. I think our solution is a political one. While we have a Governor DeSantis and a super majority in the state chambers and billions in budget surplus I suggest we all email DeSantis and JP Temple to demand desalination plants for agriculture and human consumption. The technology is there for a public/private partnership.


E-Mail Representative John Paul Temple (https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/contactmember.aspx?MemberId=4880&SessionId=103)

Email the Governor (https://www.flgov.com/email-the-governor/)

[DPWM21]

Love attached links! Helpful

[RICH1]

Home Insurance companies will
Dry up and leave the state before we run out of water…

[dewilson58]

I recalculated using the data you provided and I believe you are off by 17 day and 3 hours.:):ho:

Heading to Sam's right now and stocking up on bottled water.

:crap2:

[ThirdOfFive]

Water availability will become the world's number1 priority. I think our solution is a political one. While we have a Governor DeSantis and a super majority in the state chambers and billions in budget surplus I suggest we all email DeSantis and JP Temple to demand desalination plants for agriculture and human consumption. The technology is there for a public/private partnership.


E-Mail Representative John Paul Temple (https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/contactmember.aspx?MemberId=4880&SessionId=103)

Email the Governor (https://www.flgov.com/email-the-governor/)
Desalination could certainly be one of the answers. Cruise ships make their own fresh water out of seawater and when you consider that a ship might have over 9,000 people on it often for a week or more, all using water probably even more than they use at home, plus swimming pools, hot tubs, water slides, etc. desalination certainly could serve a whole lot of people especially if they use water sparingly.

However I've read articles by environmentalists who are strongly against desalination as a means of obtaining water. Their claim is that the desalination plants discharge their wastewater, the salinity of which is many times saltier than the original water, right back into the ocean and that poses a danger to marine life, so...

[GizmoWhiskers]

I believe historically since the beginning of time FL has been under water in various degrees. One day T V may be nearly ocean front by then turning salt water to drinkable water through desalination processes would be a good technology to implement.

If I were concerned about future resourses in T V, I would be more concerned about the dwindling space for farming and raising cattle because mealworm burgers may be ok for some but in T V I prefer to know that I'm not eating bugs being called meat.

[merrymini]

Water may well be the next crisis. I never waste anything, especially water. Front loading washers use much less water. Run the water into containers for the garden when you run it for hot water. No unnecessary watering for lawn and garden. You would be surprised how much water you can save.

[NotGolfer]

Israeli's have found a way to get water. I don't think we're in danger here. IF nothing else ocean water can be made drinkable and usable. There's plenty surrounding the peninsula. I don't worry about such things.

[dewilson58]

Urophagia.

[ThirdOfFive]

Urophagia.
Lol!

As they say on the space station:

"Today's coffee--is tomorrow's coffee".

[Two Bills]

However I've read articles by environmentalists who are strongly against desalination as a means of obtaining water. Their claim is that the desalination plants discharge their wastewater, the salinity of which is many times saltier than the original water, right back into the ocean and that poses a danger to marine life, so...

Won't be a problem.
Desalination will lower the warned about rise in ocean levels
With Polar cap melt, glacier melt, and the prophesied rain and flooding, the extra salt will also be neutralized.
Win. Win! :thumbup:

[airstreamingypsy]

Does this mean that some of the water we drink comes from Nebraska where they have more cows than people? Makes bottled water seem more attractive.:bigbow:

Bottled water is tap water in a bottle......

[jimkerr]

is the rapid building here in central rural florida threatening the water supply?

Cape Coral homeowners dealing with dried-up wells - WINK News (https://winknews.com/2023/04/20/cape-coral-homeowners-dealing-with-dried-up-wells/)

We don’t have a water problem here. Wells drying up are common especially with shallow wells.

[justjim]

Heading to Sam's right now and stocking up on bottled water.

:crap2:

Water won’t go bad but the plastic bottle could, especially if it’s stored in the hot garage. FDA recommends a shelf life of two years. So, probably not a good idea to buy more than you can drink in the next two years. Wait, residents in The Villages are rich (many plumbers, electricians, landscapers, mechanics, etc. believe) so no problem for us Villagers.

[Eclas]

Desalination could certainly be one of the answers. Cruise ships make their own fresh water out of seawater and when you consider that a ship might have over 9,000 people on it often for a week or more, all using water probably even more than they use at home, plus swimming pools, hot tubs, water slides, etc. desalination certainly could serve a whole lot of people especially if they use water sparingly.

However I've read articles by environmentalists who are strongly against desalination as a means of obtaining water. Their claim is that the desalination plants discharge their wastewater, the salinity of which is many times saltier than the original water, right back into the ocean and that poses a danger to marine life, so...

The environmentalists are hypocrites or they would live like cavemen just like they tell everybody else to do.

[Marine1974]

Water availability will become the world's number1 priority. I think our solution is a political one. While we have a Governor DeSantis and a super majority in the state chambers and billions in budget surplus I suggest we all email DeSantis and JP Temple to demand desalination plants for agriculture and human consumption. The technology is there for a public/private partnership.


E-Mail Representative John Paul Temple (https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/contactmember.aspx?MemberId=4880&SessionId=103)

Email the Governor (https://www.flgov.com/email-the-governor/)

Not if you live near the Great Lakes , they represent 20 % of the entire worlds drinking water with no end in sight .

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I was living in Punta Gorda in 2004 ,there were quite a few stories about water shortages in Cape Coral back then ,so this is not a new issue .FYI we did get plenty of rain in the area that year as hurricane Charlie came through , you know the one that was supposed to hit Tampa and then took a right turn that weather people said couldn’t happen and wrecked the town . I then moved to southern Arizona where there was a real water shortage even back then

[justjim]

Not if you live near the Great Lakes , they represent 20 % of the entire worlds drinking water with no end in sight .

Whose water is it in the Great Lakes? I hear Arizona and other western states want water piped out west so they can use it to expand more and more. And a Supreme Court just might decide that the water in the Great Lakes belongs to the United States and not just those bordering the Lakes.

[ThirdOfFive]

Whose water is it in the Great Lakes? I hear Arizona and other western states want water piped out west so they can use it to expand more and more. And a Supreme Court just might decide that the water in the Great Lakes belongs to the United States and not just those bordering the Lakes.
The Canada province of Ontario borders four of the five Great Lakes, a couple with the international border running THROUGH the lake. I'm sure they'd have something to say about sending Great Lakes water to other American states.

It is also prohibited by law: actually two laws. "pulling any large amount of water from the Great Lakes is illegal. Water diversions from them are barred by the Great Lakes Compact, an agreement between the eight surrounding states, along with a similar agreement between the United States and Canada." (USA Today)

[xcaligirl]

9 years, 4 months, 16 days.
I'll take your answer. Mine was about a month shorter!

[daniel200]

I do not see an issue. It has been already confirmed there will be a Cosco here soon.

[Randall55]

Bottled water is tap water in a bottle......

Remember pet rocks? Too funny! People will buy anything if you package it.

[Stu from NYC]

I do not see an issue. It has been already confirmed there will be a Cosco here soon.

Cant wait

[Wilharm]

Flood waters should be stored and sent where needed. Presently flood waters are sent to the gulf or the oceans.

[Stu from NYC]

Flood waters should be stored and sent where needed. Presently flood waters are sent to the gulf or the oceans.

Think it would be cost prohibitive to send water far away

[justjim]

The Canada province of Ontario borders four of the five Great Lakes, a couple with the international border running THROUGH the lake. I'm sure they'd have something to say about sending Great Lakes water to other American states.

It is also prohibited by law: actually two laws. "pulling any large amount of water from the Great Lakes is illegal. Water diversions from them are barred by the Great Lakes Compact, an agreement between the eight surrounding states, along with a similar agreement between the United States and Canada." (USA Today)

What you say may be true, however, that could all change by a Supreme Court Ruling.

[ThirdOfFive]

What you say may be true, however, that could all change by a Supreme Court Ruling.
I'm not sure how that would work. First, the function of the Supreme Court is to rule on constitutional issues. As far as I know it cannot void a law already on the books by any other means than declaring it unconstitutional. First the case would have to be brought before the Court. Second they'd have to decide to hear it (they hear about 150 cases per year out of over 7,000 brought before it). Third, they'd have to declare the law (laws, in this case: the Great Lakes compact between the American states bordering the Great Lakes, as well as the international compact between the U.S. and Canada, both of which prohibit large amounts of water being withdrawn from the lakes) unconstitutional, and I am at a loss to understand exactly on what basis they'd do that.

Fourth, the U.S. Supreme Court has no authority over Canada or individual Canadian provinces, so if Canada opposed it (and I'd bet the farm that they would) we'd be acting in contravention of an international agreement between us and them, which could very well cause a VERY tense atmosphere. There've been armed conflicts between the U.S. and Canada before, and despite our ordinarily pretty good (though not always) relationship with our neighbor to the north, there is no guarantee that such conflict could not happen again.

I know there are lawyer types who post here. Comments from any of them about how, or even if, the SCOTUS could be involved in this?

[Wilharm]

Would the billions we give to foreign countries help?

[Wilharm]

The Romans had aqueducts.

[Randall55]

I'm not sure how that would work. First, the function of the Supreme Court is to rule on constitutional issues. As far as I know it cannot void a law already on the books by any other means than declaring it unconstitutional. First the case would have to be brought before the Court. Second they'd have to decide to hear it (they hear about 150 cases per year out of over 7,000 brought before it). Third, they'd have to declare the law (laws, in this case: the Great Lakes compact between the American states bordering the Great Lakes, as well as the international compact between the U.S. and Canada, both of which prohibit large amounts of water being withdrawn from the lakes) unconstitutional, and I am at a loss to understand exactly on what basis they'd do that.

Fourth, the U.S. Supreme Court has no authority over Canada or individual Canadian provinces, so if Canada opposed it (and I'd bet the farm that they would) we'd be acting in contravention of an international agreement between us and them, which could very well cause a VERY tense atmosphere. There've been armed conflicts between the U.S. and Canada before, and despite our ordinarily pretty good (though not always) relationship with our neighbor to the north, there is no guarantee that such conflict could not happen again.

I know there are lawyer types who post here. Comments from any of them about how, or even if, the SCOTUS could be involved in this?When two countries are involved, it is under the jurisdiction of international law. Apparently, there is a treaty agreed upon by USA and Canada regarding the Great Lakes. (I never read it) When a treaty is signed, both countries are required to do what they agreed upon as it is outlined in the treaty. If one country falters, the other country can do something as simple as go into talks and renegotiate, all the way to sanctions, breaking off ties, or even war.

[Topspinmo]

is the rapid building here in central rural florida threatening the water supply?

Cape Coral homeowners dealing with dried-up wells - WINK News (https://winknews.com/2023/04/20/cape-coral-homeowners-dealing-with-dried-up-wells/)


There was rapid building when I got here 9 years ago and there will be rapid building after I’m gone. Population keeps growing. Will there be limit? Yes, but when?

[Topspinmo]

The Romans had aqueducts.

And the empire failed even with aqueducts…

[Topspinmo]

Flood waters should be stored and sent where needed. Presently flood waters are sent to the gulf or the oceans.


Flood water are stored, if not there would no outrageous population in desert.

[Stu from NYC]

And the empire failed even with aqueducts…

True but it hung around for quite a few centuries

[Sabella]

Those in charge in The Villages, at least in Sumter county few years back, made an agreement with some bottling water company to sell them an enormous amount of our water. I think on a regular basis, so look into that and ask them.

[LuvNH]

There was rapid building when I got here 9 years ago and there will be rapid building after I’m gone. Population keeps growing. Will there be limit? Yes, but when?

There will also be rapid building all over Florida and the southern states as more and more people retire looking for the sun. But even though the people who have been elected to run the country are well aware of the water shortage, nobody does anything about it. Some time ago I read that water will cost a fortune at some point, and still nothing is being done to prevent a major problem.

[Wilharm]

Flood water are stored, if not there would no outrageous population in desert.

The Mississippi River drains a vast amount of land and none of the flood water is sent to the West. It drains to the gulf.

[Bill14564]

The Mississippi River drains a vast amount of land and none of the flood water is sent to the West. It drains to the gulf.

The Mississippi River is experiencing a saltwater intrusion (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-why-salt-water-is-invading-the-mississippi-and-whether-it-will-happen-more-often/?ref=upstract.com) due to lower flows in the river which is threatening New Orlean's water supply. Pulling more water out of the river rather than letting it drain to the gulf will only make the problem worse.

The Colorado River is still threatened due to overuse.

No idea what the answer is but draining the Colorado to turn California green isn't working any more and draining the Mississippi to send the water west is not a solution either.

[LuvNH]

The Mississippi River is experiencing a saltwater intrusion (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-why-salt-water-is-invading-the-mississippi-and-whether-it-will-happen-more-often/?ref=upstract.com) due to lower flows in the river which is threatening New Orlean's water supply. Pulling more water out of the river rather than letting it drain to the gulf will only make the problem worse.

The Colorado River is still threatened due to overuse.

No idea what the answer is but draining the Colorado to turn California green isn't working any more and draining the Mississippi to send the water west is not a solution either.


Don't forget Arizona, Lake Mead and the Colorado River mess. Green lawns in Arizona - go back north for green lawns.

[ThirdOfFive]

Don't forget Arizona, Lake Mead and the Colorado River mess. Green lawns in Arizona - go back north for green lawns.
Actually the Colorado river system is recovering at a rate much faster than what had been forecast by the doom-and-gloomers. Lake Mead, which was at a low of 1,046 feet in October 2022, is forecast to reach a level of over 1,065 feet by January 2024 (NBC News, August 16, 2023) Which represents an increase far greater than the doleful forecasts being made a year ago.

[Bellavita]

I would like to know your expertise with this information. It seems to me that water is a limited resource all over the world. Why is central Florida any better off? We have just built 100,000 homes and there is a water company near us drawing up from the aquifers so why are we immune?




anyCape Coral is on the gulf side of Florida near Fort Myers. Attempting to compare Cape Coral water supply to Central Florida is as different as apples and oranges. Bottom line: Cape Coral available water supply has nothing at all to do with the available water in Central Florida.

[Bill14564]

Actually the Colorado river system is recovering at a rate much faster than what had been forecast by the doom-and-gloomers. Lake Mead, which was at a low of 1,046 feet in October 2022, is forecast to reach a level of over 1,065 feet by January 2024 (NBC News, August 16, 2023) Which represents an increase far greater than the doleful forecasts being made a year ago.

That's good news and it's a start. An extremely wet winter combined with some gains in conservation has moved things in the right direction. Hopefully, the gains will continue but unfortunately, you can't count on the wet winters. Far too soon to start counting chickens.

Useful graph and low/high data here (https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/lakemead_line.pdf).

[Topspinmo]

The Mississippi River drains a vast amount of land and none of the flood water is sent to the West. It drains to the gulf.

Yes, cause it rains east of Rockies. They already using up water draining west especially Colorado river basin. Colorado tried to steal plate River water but Nebraska put breaks on that idea. Now the other big problem coming, not able to generate enough electricity with empty lake.

[Topspinmo]

Actually the Colorado river system is recovering at a rate much faster than what had been forecast by the doom-and-gloomers. Lake Mead, which was at a low of 1,046 feet in October 2022, is forecast to reach a level of over 1,065 feet by January 2024 (NBC News, August 16, 2023) Which represents an increase far greater than the doleful forecasts being made a year ago.

So far, nobody knows how long that will last.

[ThirdOfFive]

So far, nobody knows how long that will last.
Quite true, but what is known is that the amount of water available from winter runoff which feeds Lake Mead IS cyclical: dependent mainly on precipitation which varies from drought conditions to conditions of ample water over period of years, and that the drought conditions in the past year or so, over much of the country but mainly in the southwest, have shown a tremendous improvement.

This, from "In June 2022, 99% of the Southwest was under some degree of drought. Just a year later, only 28% of the region is experiencing drought, according to the U.S. Drought monitor, which defines the Southwest as Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, California and Nevada." ]("Months of wet weather erase drought across the Southwest" Alex Hager/KUNC, July 3, 2023)[/B]

Much the same experience some years back when I lived in Duluth, Minnesota. The Big Lake was experiencing dropping water levels and of course we heard much mournful rhetoric about how that was going to negatively impact shoreline businesses, fisheries, water quality, etc. etc. After a couple of years of that though the tables turned: Superior was again up to where we were told it was supposed to be (actually a little over), and all was well. Only we never really heard much about those tables turning. Good news doesn't sell, I guess.

It seems as if it all comes down to cycles. Drought v. periods of ample water--even floods. Arctic-like winters followed by winters with relatively balmy temperatures. Hot Florida summers followed by not so hot Florida summers. Years of Hurricane seasons with a lot of hurricanes followed by years of few. Insect pests in huge numbers in some years followed by some years of little or none. And so on. We seem to keep chasing "averages" as if the average condition as far as we can determine them over the years, decades or even centuries were the Holy Grail, without realizing that a completely "average" year for whatever cycle we're studying almost never happens. And when we CAN'T nail those average years--well, then the sky is falling.

Mama Nature runs the show, and she seems to be doing a pretty darn good job at it. I doubt she knows or cares what we do to try to stymie her.