Credit Card surcharges

[roob1]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).

[retiredguy123]

According to the statute, it is illegal, even for the state and county. But, I think some courts have ruled that it is legal. Some businesses are charging a surcharge to use a credit or debit card. One of them is the Arnold Palmer Country Club restaurant.

[Keefelane66]

Sumter County uses a third party to process credit card payments, credit card machines are provided by that vendor, the fee is 2.5% use of a bank debit card is $2.50…

[Jayhawk]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).

Is it legal to charge a credit card surcharge in Florida?

Florida has a law prohibiting credit card surcharges, but that law was held unconstitutional by federal courts. Therefore, merchants in Florida may add a surcharge to credit card purchases.

§ 501.0117 Declared Unconstitutional

The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit reversed the district court ruling and found that Florida's no-surcharge statute regulated speech and violated businesses' commercial speech rights, and thus was unconstitutional.

[retiredguy123]

///

[melpetezrinski]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).


As long as it's disclosed, I have no problem with it and I don't think it's illegal. However, I can't remember the last time I paid a fee, as there are usually alternative payment options that don't carry any additional fees. One being, an electronic check from a bank account, which Sumter does accept for tax bill payments.

[rjm1cc]

It cost the merchant money to process the cc. Thus if no fee is charged this cost is spread over all customers. If the charge can be limited to just the customer causing the expense then the non cc customers should get a lower price in theory. In short if you pay a dollar on a cc the merchant might only get 95 to 97 cents but if you use a dollar bill they get 100 cents.

[retiredguy123]

It cost the merchant money to process the cc. Thus if no fee is charged this cost is spread over all customers. If the charge can be limited to just the customer causing the expense then the non cc customers should get a lower price in theory. In short if you pay a dollar on a cc the merchant might only get 95 to 97 cents but if you use a dollar bill they get 100 cents.
That is technically accurate. But, if merchants stopped accepting credit cards, they would lose a lot of business. When McDonald's started accepting credit cards, they noticed a 50 percent increase in their average transaction amount. It is human nature for people to spend more money when they use a credit card than when they pay cash. I think that McDonald's doesn't charge a credit card surcharge for a good reason.

[alwann]

It cost the merchant money to process the cc. Thus if no fee is charged this cost is spread over all customers. If the charge can be limited to just the customer causing the expense then the non cc customers should get a lower price in theory. In short if you pay a dollar on a cc the merchant might only get 95 to 97 cents but if you use a dollar bill they get 100 cents.

Yes, even a medical practice I see is charging a fee for card use. Not being a tax accountant, I wonder wouldn't the costs of having a credit billing service be deductible as a business expense?

[retiredguy123]

Yes, even a medical practice I see is charging a fee for card use. Not being a tax accountant, I wonder wouldn't the costs of having a credit billing service be deductible as a business expense?
Yes, all costs associated with operating a business are deductible from their gross income.

[frayedends]

My understanding was that usually the credit card companies (Mastercard, visa, etc) prohibit a surcharge if a business is to accept the cards. They don’t want to lose revenue. But some businesses will offer a cash discount as a way around this.

[retiredguy123]

My understanding was that usually the credit card companies (Mastercard, visa, etc) prohibit a surcharge if a business is to accept the cards. They don’t want to lose revenue. But some businesses will offer a cash discount as a way around this.
LOL. Isn't that the same thing as charging a surcharge? Semantics.

[charlie1]

It cost the merchant money to process the cc. Thus if no fee is charged this cost is spread over all customers. If the charge can be limited to just the customer causing the expense then the non cc customers should get a lower price in theory. In short if you pay a dollar on a cc the merchant might only get 95 to 97 cents but if you use a dollar bill they get 100 cents.

Have you ever wondered why you see more companies going to Credit/Debit Card only payments. Turns out that it is more cost effective in the big picture. The company does not have to worry about keeping cash/change, employee theft, counting and balancing cash throughout the day, etc. Using only charge cards generates immediately your proceeds and almost automatically deposits them into the bank each day. All labor needed to take cash are significant cost and problems for the company but is assumed to be normal. Unfortunately, some companies still live in the past and insist they are losing all the money paid to fees. they need to look at the bigger picture! (including usually an increase in sales!)

[Pugchief]

My understanding was that usually the credit card companies (Mastercard, visa, etc) prohibit a surcharge if a business is to accept the cards.


False.

That was the case many years ago until a class action lawsuit and gooberment* intervention brought about an industry-wide change. The current law allows but does not require merchants to charge customers up to the amount of their processing fees (generally between 2-3%) to use a card.

You can choose not to pay the fee by using another form of payment or patronizing a business that does not impose the fee. Vote with your wallet and your feet.

There is no reason V/MC/Discover need to charge such high fees anymore, but that is another whole topic.

*I borrowed/stole that classic term from another poster here (forget who) so I am offing a HT on a one time basis. Thank you.

[Sandy and Ed]

Is it legal to charge a credit card surcharge in Florida?

Florida has a law prohibiting credit card surcharges, but that law was held unconstitutional by federal courts. Therefore, merchants in Florida may add a surcharge to credit card purchases.

§ 501.0117 Declared Unconstitutional

The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit reversed the district court ruling and found that Florida's no-surcharge statute regulated speech and violated businesses' commercial speech rights, and thus was unconstitutional.
Huh??? Violated free speech rights?? If I was really interested and not too lazy I would do a deep dive into this further. Sounds hokey. Just saying.

[Sandy and Ed]

Have you ever wondered why you see more companies going to Credit/Debit Card only payments. Turns out that it is more cost effective in the big picture. The company does not have to worry about keeping cash/change, employee theft, counting and balancing cash throughout the day, etc. Using only charge cards generates immediately your proceeds and almost automatically deposits them into the bank each day. All labor needed to take cash are significant cost and problems for the company but is assumed to be normal. Unfortunately, some companies still live in the past and insist they are losing all the money paid to fees. they need to look at the bigger picture! (including usually an increase in sales!)
Totally agree! Cost of doing business. Just price your product or service accordingly so you arrive at the profit you want. I can’t gripe about the fee if it is buried in the cost of the product.

[DBChris]

Went to Sumter Tire in Wildwood for a battery "to go". I knew the cost of the battery and the final cost was higher. I looked at the bill and they had a line item for "shop supplies". I questioned the woman and she basically told me it was for credit card fees. Never again.

[retiredguy123]

Went to Sumter Tire in Wildwood for a battery "to go". I knew the cost of the battery and the final cost was higher. I looked at the bill and they had a line item for "shop supplies". I questioned the woman and she basically told me it was for credit card fees. Never again.
According to a Sumter Tire invoice, they charge a 4 percent fee for "shop supplies misc", which they describe as "costs and profits to the motor vehicle repair facility for misc shop supplies or waste disposal". I am not sure the woman you spoke with actually told you the truth. I think the 4 percent fee would be charged regardless of your payment method.

[Haggar]

Is it legal to charge a credit card surcharge in Florida?

Florida has a law prohibiting credit card surcharges, but that law was held unconstitutional by federal courts. Therefore, merchants in Florida may add a surcharge to credit card purchases.

§ 501.0117 Declared Unconstitutional

The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit reversed the district court ruling and found that Florida's no-surcharge statute regulated speech and violated businesses' commercial speech rights, and thus was unconstitutional.

Be aware that no surcharges can be imposed if you are using a debit card.

Merchants are not supposed to make a profit on this practice - but the merchant may include the costs of processing the charge which includes not only their fees but their rental of equipment and other related costs. In reality most merchants are adding 4% for credit card fees and making a small profit on each transaction.

[Arctic Fox]

Businesses pay a lot less in fees when they accept a Debit card than a Credit card (usually 1% rather than 3%), so often their surcharge on a Debit card is lower.

[rothbear]

I have a very small craft business....very small....only me. I started taking Square about 6-7 years ago and find that it does increase sales volume. Although Square keeps increasing their fees I will still keep them as they don't charge a monthly fee. I have had many times when the customer asks "Do you accept cards?" and when I say that I do, they will purchase more items that they originally planned to buy. I even purchased one of their chip/tap readers so I can keep doing it.

I also don't charge an add on fee to anyone using them. I don't like them, so I don't charge them. We were at an antique store last year and I wanted several items. We are people who carry little cash and charge everything and pay it off each month. When we got to the register and discovered that they were charging 4% for CC, I put everything back except for 2 pieces. They lost sales and a customer for doing that. 4% is making an extra profit. I know because with being a low volume seller even I don't get charged that much.

[MrFlorida]

You always have the option to pay cash or check.

[Bill14564]

You always have the option to pay cash or check.

Only if you happen to be carrying enough cash or a check at the time. I don't because I use a credit card.

There are businesses I haven't returned to because they charged a credit card fee. They probably don't miss me; I know I don't miss them.

[Birdrm]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).

I looked at the options and noticed that writing a check and paying for a stamp was the cheapest way to pay each month!

[MandoMan]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).

The charges are now legal. While you may not get a discount if you use a credit card, sellers pay 1.5 to 3.5% to the card company. That’s like a mandatory discount on your bill, except that you don’t get it. It’s for the convenience of getting to use a card today and pay later rather than having to tote around a lot of cash. I don’t like the charges, but in some businesses, the profit margin is pretty slim.

Meanwhile, when you get your monthly bill for the Amenities Fee and trash, water, and sewage, have you ever paid that bill online using a credit card? The company that handles that charges a LOT for that convenience. Unless you are out of town, write a check and put it in an envelope and put it in the slot for Villages payments found at every Villages Postal Station when you pick up your mail. That saves you the price of a stamp (around $7.50 a year, just in postage).

[tophcfa]

Totally agree! Cost of doing business. Just price your product or service accordingly so you arrive at the profit you want. I can’t gripe about the fee if it is buried in the cost of the product.

I like the way some gas stations deal with the issue. You pay full price for gas using a credit card, but if you get their card, that is linked to a bank account, the gas is at a discounted price reflecting no credit card service fee. Consumers paying with cash or direct debit shouldn’t be penalized with a credit card service fee. If there is no discount, I always use a credit card so I get rewards points or travel points, otherwise I use cash.

[Golfer222]

went to Palmers once a week before the surcharge- havent been back since- not the money but rather the principle

[Quickdraw]

What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card. If I read the info linked, it appears illegal. Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.0117.html#:~:text=(1)%20A%20seller%20or%20les sor,accepts%20payment%20by%20credit%20card).
Florida Statute 501.0117 was held unconstitutional in the case of Dana’s RR Supply v. Fla. Attorney Gen., 807 F. 3d 1235 (11th Cir. 2015), so this law has not been effective for the past 8+ years.

[pdp07]

My choice is to not go to Palmer's. Most busineses make more money by accepting credit cards, regardless of the fees. When it hurt's enough they will drop the fee. If they don't lose enough business the fee will remain. It is that simple.

[Arctic Fox]

Meanwhile, when you get your monthly bill for the Amenities Fee and trash, water, and sewage, have you ever paid that bill online using a credit card? The company that handles that charges a LOT for that convenience. Unless you are out of town, write a check and put it in an envelope and put it in the slot for Villages payments found at every Villages Postal Station when you pick up your mail. That saves you the price of a stamp (around $7.50 a year, just in postage).

...or sign up for automatic payment from your bank account

[Vermilion Villager]

Huh??? Violated free speech rights?? If I was really interested and not too lazy I would do a deep dive into this further. Sounds hokey. Just saying.
It is true… However if you do a deep dive you'll find the reason is because of the sloppy way the Florida legislature created the statute. The appeals court concluded had the legislature simply added the words that businesses giving discounts for cash was also prohibited then the statute would have stood:read:

[retiredguy123]

The charges are now legal. While you may not get a discount if you use a credit card, sellers pay 1.5 to 3.5% to the card company. That’s like a mandatory discount on your bill, except that you don’t get it. It’s for the convenience of getting to use a card today and pay later rather than having to tote around a lot of cash. I don’t like the charges, but in some businesses, the profit margin is pretty slim.

Meanwhile, when you get your monthly bill for the Amenities Fee and trash, water, and sewage, have you ever paid that bill online using a credit card? The company that handles that charges a LOT for that convenience. Unless you are out of town, write a check and put it in an envelope and put it in the slot for Villages payments found at every Villages Postal Station when you pick up your mail. That saves you the price of a stamp (around $7.50 a year, just in postage).
I make the amenities payment using an Echeck from my bank's online bill payment system. It bypasses the District's vendor and avoids their $0.95 fee. Also, you don't need to sign up for autopay. The invoice neglects to mention this payment method, apparently because they want you to use the vendor.

[BrianL99]

Businesses pay a lot less in fees when they accept a Debit card than a Credit card (usually 1% rather than 3%), so often their surcharge on a Debit card is lower.

Usually even less on a Debit Card. Because the Banks and Servicers are so highly regulated, they usually play by the rules on Debit Cards. Merchants pay almost nothing for a Debit Card transaction.

To those who question the real cost. Attached is a Screen Shot of one of our small businesses, in the hospitality field (which pays slightly higher rates than retail stores). We're a fairly large business, that probably does somewhere around $50,000,000 in CC transactions per year, so our rate is lower than most.

[Golfer222]

^
Whats next- pay for the water used to wash the number of dishes we use
Its called the price of doing business

[coralway]

Every restaurant, diner I have been to (up North) has a note usually on the bottom page of the menu that they charge a cc fee.

[Pugchief]

Totally agree! Cost of doing business. Just price your product or service accordingly so you arrive at the profit you want. I can’t gripe about the fee if it is buried in the cost of the product.

Not every business can just increase prices if they are locked in by government or industry coercion. Ask me how I know.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Every bill I have is either on auto pay or bank drafts both credit cards I use are also automatic , the backup card pays the cable, cell phone ,Wi-Fi ,pest services and some newspapers and gym membership the major card pays everything else if you don’t want the credit card company to-take the full amount , you have to call them but then they’ll only take minimum, seeing I only pay the full bill it’s easy ,I’ve been doing this for a lot of years with no problems , i probably use about 3 or 4 checks a year , I pay t he yard guy in cash same with my cleaning person and anyone else that does something at my home As far as taxes , I went yesterday paid and was out of there in about 5 minutes ,with a 4% , discount what could be easier and cheaper then that some people on here seem to make things to complicated with all these different methods

[Golfer222]

Not every business can just increase prices if they are locked in by government or industry coercion. Ask me how I know.

Not sure palmers is locked in by the govt or industry

[Michael G.]

One being, an electronic check from a bank account, which Sumter does accept for tax bill payments.


Good idea, but Chase charges $10.00 for that service.

[JGibson]

As long as folks are paying the CC surcharge they‘re gonna keep charging it.
No way I pay the CC surcharge.

[Golfer222]

deduct the exact amount from the server's tip-that will get some attention

[BrianL99]

Not sure palmers is locked in by the govt or industry

No, but The King (or his heirs) still maintain some control.

[BrianL99]

deduct the exact amount from the server's tip-that will get some attention


I think that's a great idea and I'm going to start with it, tomorrow. Thank you.`

[JSR22]

deduct the exact amount from the server's tip-that will get some attention
Punishing the server is disgraceful.
Pay cash and there is not a surcharge.

[Pugchief]

Good idea, but Chase charges $10.00 for that service.

I've never heard of a bank charging to process an "electronic check" which is just another ACH transaction for them. But if that's true, maybe it's time to change banks. Chase, Citi, BofA, Wells Fargo, etc have the highest fees in the industry.

Consider a free CMA (cash management account) from Fidelity or Schwab.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I've had credit cards and checking accounts and ATM/bank cards since the early 1980's. We moved here only 3 years ago. I also lived in Florida in the late 1980's. My experience in The Villages has been the first time I have -ever- been charged a surcharge for the privilege of using a credit card to pay for anything other than gasoline at the pump. Gas at the pump usually cost a few cents more than cash, and at some point even that was made illegal in Connecticut. I think they've recently allowed it again.

The cost of doing business was always woven into the price of the product. Maybe it's just a Florida thing? We never had to pay a fee to pay our taxes by credit card til we came here. I'm thinking maybe next time my car registration is due for renewal I'll pay in person, with rolled pennies.

[Golfer222]

Punishing the server is disgraceful.
Pay cash and there is not a surcharge.

And punishing the customer is not?

[KJ1325]

As a past retail business owner, in the early 2000's I was happy to take the credit cards as opposed to chasing down bad checks especially with a prosecutors office that had no interest in messing with it. The theory was at least I have the money. Eventually I just quit taking checks. Then came along the Credit Card chargeback which has become rampant. I have friends that own a restaurant and if people are not happy with the food or service and the manager doesn't make it right (give it to them for free), they just chargeback their credit card. In retail, I would usually have 2 or 3 chargebacks a month and the credit card bank Always sides with their customer. I'm old enough to remember writing a check for my bill at a nicer restaurant. I wonder how many chargebacks our local business's have.

[Pugchief]

in The Villages has been the first time I have -ever- been charged a surcharge for the privilege of using a credit card to pay for anything other than gasoline at the pump. Maybe it's just a Florida thing? We never had to pay a fee to pay our taxes by credit card til we came here.

Almost every government agency charges a fee to use a credit card. That has been the case UpNorth since forever. Same with the IRS if you pay your taxes with a card. Many businesses are also joining in.

This is nothing new, and nothing specific to FL. It's been there...maybe you just didn't notice.

[Skip]

You always have the option to pay cash or check.

Was in a bakery in another state buying a coffee and pastry, when I got my $10 bill out to pay, I was told: "WE ONLY ACCEPT CARDS - USE THE PANEL TO TAP OR SWIPE!"

I was about to say "No thanks - Keep it", but was too hungry to refuse. On the charge panel were 3 choices: 20%, 25% and 30% tip. I declined . I'm sure many others do too in irritation. There was no 4% surcharge for using a CC. (Luckily) The sales person seemed to be the owner. I don't tip owners. I said, "So I can't leave you a cash tip, then, if you don't handle money!" People behind me got a chuckle out of that.

The way they get around this roadblock is that the coffee isn't poured or the pastry picked until you pay.

Odd incident. It was in a touristy town. I'm sure the residents don't shop there.

Skip

[Skip]

BTW: Connecticut, Massachusetts and Puerto Rico have laws prohibiting fees on using credit cards.
In New York the price when usung a credit card must be posted some how (on the menu or on a sign at check out).
In another state my bill had a line item: "BOH service charge 3%" That was a 3% added tip for the kitchen help in addition to what you were giving your server!!!!
Had one incident where there was a $ surcharge added for CC and when I got it home, it calculated to be 4.5%.
This is getting crazy.
I now write on the signed credit slip: "You just lost a customer because of your surcharges".

Skip

[JSR22]

And punishing the customer is not?

The customer has the option to pay cash. Punishing an employee is wrong. The servers work hard for their tips.

[JMintzer]

deduct the exact amount from the server's tip-that will get some attention

I think that's a great idea and I'm going to start with it, tomorrow. Thank you.`

Punishing the server for the owner's action? Classy...

And punishing the customer is not?

You're going to pay for it one way or another. Either thru a surcharge or thru higher prices...

[JMintzer]

Almost every government agency charges a fee to use a credit card. That has been the case UpNorth since forever. Same with the IRS if you pay your taxes with a card. Many businesses are also joining in.

This is nothing new, and nothing specific to FL. It's been there...maybe you just didn't notice.

Correct...

[JoMar]

And punishing the customer is not?

How does the server punish the customer?

[JGibson]

This surcharge has seemed to have started when CC companies jumped on the cash back perk and restaurants seemed to push back with their own cash back to themselves.

I just wish more restaurants had Apple Pay terminals at the table for fraud protection. I hate having to give wait staff my card so they can take a picture of it and send it to their shady friends.

[Two Bills]

This surcharge has seemed to have started when CC companies jumped on the cash back perk and restaurants seemed to push back with their own cash back to themselves.

I just wish more restaurants had Apple Pay terminals at the table for fraud protection. I hate having to give wait staff my card so they can take a picture of it and send it to their shady friends.

I have blacked out the CVV number on back of card after remembering it.
I never hand card to anyone if touch and pay not available, always put card in reader myself.
Use phone for payment as much as possible, cash in restaurants, and I won't eat in any that presume I have enjoyed my meal and add their own service charge.
Works for me.

[Normal]

7/11 always charges an additional $1 fee if you fill up at Magnolia. It’s two lines on my statement.

[retiredguy123]

7/11 always charges an additional $1 fee if you fill up at Magnolia. It’s two lines on my statement.
Are you sure you are reading your statement correctly? When I fill up at Walmart, my statement shows a $1 charge and another charge for the gas, but these are both "pending" charges. When they are no longer pending, the $1 charge is dropped and not charged against my account. I think it is just a temporary holding charge for security.

[photo1902]

Are you sure you are reading your statement correctly? When I fill up at Walmart, my statement shows a $1 charge and another charge for the gas, but these are both "pending" charges. When they are no longer pending, the $1 charge is dropped and not charged against my account. I think it is just a temporary holding charge for security.

Exactly right. The charges for $1.00 showing as pending charges are not actual charges. They are pre-authorization charges to verify the credit card being used is valid.

[BrianL99]

BTW: Connecticut, Massachusetts and Puerto Rico have laws prohibiting fees on using credit cards.



That is the law, but the Division of Banks in Massachusetts, has elected not to enforce it. You can hardly eat at a restaurant in Boston, that won't charge you a credit card "convenience fee".

Here's an article about how automobile dealerships can charge the fee:

Credit card surcharges are Illegal in Massachusetts, but some businesses charge them (https://www.wcvb.com/article/credit-card-surcharges-are-illegal-in-massachusetts-but-some-businesses-charge-them/35591447)

[Golfer222]

Just subtract the exact percentage from the tip. When the servers complain to management (and/or quit) there will be a change. Solved on TOTV. Your'e welcome

[JMintzer]

Just subtract the exact percentage from the tip. When the servers complain to management (and/or quit) there will be a change. Solved on TOTV. Your'e welcome

Sure, punish the servers for something they cannot control... How nice...

[BrianL99]

Just subtract the exact percentage from the tip. When the servers complain to management (and/or quit) there will be a change. Solved on TOTV. Your'e welcome

Thanks again for that suggestion. After you suggested it earlier in the thread, I did it yesterday at a TV restaurant and will continue to do so. (They charged me on a Debit Card, with is patently illegal.)

To those that claim it's unfair to Servers ... tough luck. They can get a job at another restaurant, who's more honest and upfront about their pricing.

[Ecuadog]

...

To those that claim it's unfair to Servers ... tough luck. They can get a job at another restaurant, who's more honest and upfront about their pricing.

Wow.

[tophcfa]

BTW: Connecticut, Massachusetts and Puerto Rico have laws prohibiting fees on using credit cards.
Skip
Stupid law. I just forces the merchants to bury the fee in prices charged. The result is that those using cash or debit are penalized into having to pay the buried fee.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

That is the law, but the Division of Banks in Massachusetts, has elected not to enforce it. You can hardly eat at a restaurant in Boston, that won't charge you a credit card "convenience fee".

Here's an article about how automobile dealerships can charge the fee:

Credit card surcharges are Illegal in Massachusetts, but some businesses charge them (https://www.wcvb.com/article/credit-card-surcharges-are-illegal-in-massachusetts-but-some-businesses-charge-them/35591447)well I must be missing something living in the city of Boston , I don’t know about the suburbs but I haven’t come across a surcharge at all , also why use a debit card when you can get cash back , I’m going to finish up the year with having received about $2,500 back

[BrianL99]

well I must be missing something living in the city of Boston , I don’t know about the suburbs but I haven’t come across a surcharge at all , also why use a debit card when you can get cash back , I’m going to finish up the year with having received about $2,500 back

Your Credit Card companies must love you, spending over $200,000/year on their cards. Great customer for them!

I don't know where you're eating in Boston, but most every restaurant is adding a "convenience fee" and the Division of Banks has said it's ok and not a violation.

As for why use a Debit Card? A Debit Card is CASH. You've heard about the "cashless society" that's been predicted for 25 years? It's here now. Might as well participate, because you're paying for it. Taking actually folding money, costs money. People to handle it, people to transport it, companies to insure it, banks to manage it. The true cost of accepting "cash" isn't much different than the processing costs of taking credit cards.

In the big scheme of things, it costs us all more, as it's easy to hide cash from the tax implications. 99% of the time, if you walk into a business that says "Cash Only", it's because they're stealing from you and I, by not paying their fair share of taxes. Personally, I won't do business with anyone that takes "cash only" ... they're invariably, crooks.

BTW, who do you think is paying for your Reward Points"? The cost of accepting "Reward Cards" is typically 1%-1.5% higher for a merchant. Robbing Peter, to pay Paul.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Your Credit Card companies must love you, spending over $200,000/year on their cards. Great customer for them!

I don't know where you're eating in Boston, but most every restaurant is adding a "convenience fee" and the Division of Banks has said it's ok and not a violation.

As for why use a Debit Card? A Debit Card is CASH. You've heard about the "cashless society" that's been predicted for 25 years? It's here now. Might as well participate, because you're paying for it. Taking actually folding money, costs money. People to handle it, people to transport it, companies to insure it, banks to manage it. The true cost of accepting "cash" isn't much different than the processing costs of taking credit cards.

In the big scheme of things, it costs us all more, as it's easy to hide cash from the tax implications. 99% of the time, if you walk into a business that says "Cash Only", it's because they're stealing from you and I, by not paying their fair share of taxes. Personally, I won't do business with anyone that takes "cash only" ... they're invariably, crooks.

BTW, who do you think is paying for your Reward Points"? The cost of accepting "Reward Cards" is typically 1%-1.5% higher for a merchant. Robbing Peter, to pay Paul.your paying the same price with your debit card as I’m paying with my credit card , so what’s the problem with me using it and getting some money back and in 5 months I never saw a surcharge , , hmmmm cash back $2,500 , I spent $ 200,000 interesting math FYI I googled credit card surcharges and Massachusetts is one of a few states that makes it illegal , but so this won’t go on and on because from reading some of your posts you are always right I’ll just say whatever you say is ok with me and GO Raiders I need you for a 4 game parlay

[4$ALE]

huge.

Stop! You're going to go blind! :a20:

[BrianL99]

Stop! You're going to go blind! :a20:

I'll stop when I get near-sighted.

[JGibson]

I have blacked out the CVV number on back of card after remembering it.
I never hand card to anyone if touch and pay not available, always put card in reader myself.
Use phone for payment as much as possible, cash in restaurants, and I won't eat in any that presume I have enjoyed my meal and add their own service charge.
Works for me.

We would get along great as I share the same sentiments.

America is so far behind with tap and pay compared to other countries.

[BrianL99]

We would get along great as I share the same sentiments.

America is so far behind with tap and pay compared to other countries.


I've been told by a number of friends in the Cyber Security/Banking world, the most secure method of payment is ApplePay. It's certainly convenient, as I seldom venture out without my iPhone & Apple Watch. Unfortunately (as you said), I seem to find a lot of business in this area are a bit behind the times with their technology.

[Golfer222]

Thanks again for that suggestion. After you suggested it earlier in the thread, I did it yesterday at a TV restaurant and will continue to do so. (They charged me on a Debit Card, with is patently illegal.)

To those that claim it's unfair to Servers ... tough luck. They can get a job at another restaurant, who's more honest and upfront about their pricing.

I as well. Went to Palmer's over the weekend. 136 dollar tab before taxes. Left tip for 22.10 (20-3.75)- I am sure the server knew where their extra tip went.

[JMintzer]

I as well. Went to Palmer's over the weekend. 136 dollar tab before taxes. Left tip for 22.10 (20-3.75)- I am sure the server knew where their extra tip went.

How would they know? Did you tell them?

Pretty cheap tip to begin with, btw...

[Ecuadog]

... I am sure the server knew where their extra tip went.

Maybe not. If you are going to take it out on the servers, please tell them what you are doing so that they'll know you are just being unfair, instead of cheap.

[Golfer222]

Yes- I wrote the following on the receipt- "I subtracted the credit card surcharge form your 20% tip- please express your dissatisfaction with mgmt"

[Ecuadog]

Yes- I wrote the following on the receipt- "I subtracted the credit card surcharge form your 20% tip- please express your dissatisfaction with mgmt"

Well, that certainly taught your server a lesson. You would rather punish the undeserving than speak to the management yourself.

[Golfer222]

How would they know? Did you tell them?

Pretty cheap tip to begin with, btw...

20 % is pretty standard-
And your going rate of tippage Big Spender ?

[Pugchief]

20 % is pretty standard-
And your going rate of tippage Big Spender ?

136 x 20% = 27.20

27.20 - 3.75 = 23.45

and tippage is not a word

[BrianL99]

Yes- I wrote the following on the receipt- "I subtracted the credit card surcharge form your 20% tip- please express your dissatisfaction with mgmt"

You are my kind of guy! Good job.

[BrianL99]

and tippage is not a word

"Tippage" certainly is a word and in common use.

I'm not going to opine if it was used properly, but it is a very common word.

Google is your friend. It's usually particularly helpful, when publicly correcting someone who might not be as wrong as you think.

[Pugchief]

I as well. Went to Palmer's over the weekend. 136 dollar tab before taxes. Left tip for 22.10 (20-3.75)- I am sure the server knew where their extra tip went.

It appears neither reading comprehension nor math skills are your forte, so I am going to type this slowly so you can understand it better

I stated I subtracted 3.75% (not 3.75 dollars)

136 x 20% =27.20
136 x 3.75% =5.10

27.20-5.10=22.10

You're welcome

My bad, your original post looked like you meant $3.75 not 3.75%, or I misinterpreted it.

[Pugchief]

and tippage is not a word

"Tippage" certainly is a word and in common use.

I'm not going to opine if it was used properly, but it is a very common word.

Google is your friend. It's usually particularly helpful, when publicly correcting someone who might not be as wrong as you think.

Not according to Webster's Dictionary:

[BrianL99]

___

[BrianL99]

Not according to Webster's Dictionary:


"Tippage" is a fee that is paid to dispose of waste (& sometimes other products).
"Tippage" is also a noun, to describe ... something that "tips".
"Tippage" is also a noun used to describe provided advice regarding a "stock" or something similar.

Some tippage rates going up at Sylvan Lake Waste Transfer Site | rdnewsnow.com (https://rdnewsnow.com/2021/01/18/some-tippage-rates-going-up-at-sylvan-lake-waste-transfer-site/)

Landfill (https://duchesne.utah.gov/gov/dept/landfill/)

Westlock County - Landfill (https://www.westlockcounty.com/p/landfill)

The Resourceful Woodworker cures ‘Tippage’ - Woodworking Wisdom | Axminster Tools (https://www.axminstertools.com/ideas-advice/the-resourceful-woodworker-cures-tippage/)

TIPPING | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tipping)



Apparently Webster's online isn't quite as accurate as they used to pride themselves on.

[BrianL99]

______

[BrianL99]

___

[Ecuadog]

"Tippage" certainly is a word and in common use.

I'm not going to opine if it was used properly, but it is a very common word.

Google is your friend. It's usually particularly helpful, when publicly correcting someone who might not be as wrong as you think.

I used Google per your suggestion and could not find "tippage" defined in any real online dictionary. It's obviously not a proper word.

[BrianL99]

I used Google per your suggestion and could not find "tippage" defined in any real online dictionary. It's obviously not a proper word.

Just scroll up a couple of posts.

& you're right, most online dictionaries don't seem to have the word, but it's been in common usage for at least 40 years that I know of. Ask any truck driver who's ever been to a "dump", landfill or disposal site, almost without exception they'll tell you they pay "Tippage Fees". (I'll agree that other uses of the word are more obscure.)

[Pugchief]

"Tippage" certainly is a word and in common use.

I'm not going to opine if it was used properly, but it is a very common word.

Google is your friend. It's usually particularly helpful, when publicly correcting someone who might not be as wrong as you think.



& you're right, most online dictionaries don't seem to have the word,

Apology accepted. :boxing2:

[Ecuadog]

...

& you're right, most online dictionaries don't seem to have the word ...

Post a link to one real dictionary that has it. Please, no urban slang.

[Ecuadog]

Oh no... I am turning into a pedant. Woe is me.

[JMintzer]

seldom right and wrong again- I also expressed my concern with management- but thanks for playing

Yet, you still punished the server... Pretty crappy game you're playing...

[JMintzer]

20 % is pretty standard-
And your going rate of tippage Big Spender ?

20% on top of the taxed amount, 25% if the service is exceptional...

30% at lower priced establishments... They work just as hard, but make less due the lower price points...

Does that satisfy your expectations?

[JMintzer]

136 x 20% = 27.20

27.20 - 3.75 = 23.45

and tippage is not a word

He took the 3.75% (the credit card fee?) off of his 20% tip, leaving a 16.25% tip. Hence the $22.10...

136 x 16.25% = 22.10

[retiredguy123]

When it comes to tipping, I usually go with flow, except that I will not tip anything for bad service. I feel like I am helping to improve the server's performance.

But, I am surprised at how many people apparently believe that the server has no responsibilty or accountability for the overall quality of the restaurant. If the restaurant is bad, or is overcharging, then the server should accept some responsibiIty because they are a key part of the business. They can influence management decisions, and they can also choose to work somewhere else.

[Two Bills]

Stop! You're going to go blind! :a20:

That was another lie my parents told me!:)

[JMintzer]

Take it as you wish.

I just think it is hypocritical for you to be fine with tipping what you "feel" like tipping but criticize others for their "tippage" percentage

So before you can write another diatribe, I am disengaging since it is obvious from this and other threads that you are a "last word" type of person

Sure... Tipping "over" the commonly accepted rate, by an amount that I want to pay makes me "hypocritical"... Do you even read what you post?

You were criticized for punishing a server for something out of their control. You sure showed them!

Oh, and you're still using "tippage" incorrectly...

[Pairadocs]

[QUOTE=roob1;2271853]What is your take on surcharges and convenience fees applied to credit card sales in Florida? Just paid one today, and noted that Sumter County applies surcharge to tax bills paid by credit card

Let's face it, Credit issuing is a business, whatever the traffic will bare probably applies. After all these years, doubt people will ever return to a cash society.. but of course who knows what world might look like in the future. A chip planted directly into you that records you bank account balances ? Meanwhile, our "politicians" know where most of these companies are headquartered primarily in Delaware, and could make it illegal IF they wanted to, but doubt there would be any "will", CC companies probably heavily contribute to both political parties, who would want to chop down the golden money tree ! We "could" try to resist by paying in cash as much as possible, but that's really inconvenient to impossible in some places. I've read of people who protest additional charges if having to put property taxes on their credit cards... they get thousands of dollars in pennies and take them to the tax office. Enough days like that, and any surcharges "might" be eliminated. I have lived in counties where taxes can be paid via cc with no "surcharge", the country appreciated the quick, easy, process as it saved them a great deal on $$$ opposed to the paper work and recording and human hours needed to process and record cash and checks !