Global Warming. Really?

[Randall55]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

[retiredguy123]

I consider myself an analytical and open minded person, but I have never seen a convincing argument either for or against global warming, climate change, or whatever you want to call it. The amount of snow in Alaska in one year doesn't even come close to convincing me of anything. And, a lot of people seem to have a personal agenda that makes it even harder to convince me of anything related to climate change.

[Byte1]

That's why it has been convenient to rename the agenda as "Climate Change" so that they can be "technically" correct, no matter what the weather outcome. Some are predicting one of our coldest winters this year. Personally, I would be fine with some warming, whether global or otherwise. I moved here for the warm/hot temps.

[Two Bills]

Summer heat is Global Warming.
Winter snow is Climate Change.
I personally think winter weather has something to do with it! :shrug:

[retiredguy123]

One obvious question is "what does the snowfall amount have to do with global warming?" In the winter in Anchorage, it is almost always cold enough to snow. Snowfall is related to precipitation, not temperature.

[Randall55]

One obvious question is "what does the snowfall amount have to do with global warming?" In the winter in Anchorage, it is almost always cold enough to snow. Snowfall is related to precipitation, not temperature.I understand.I am concerned about El Niño. I have relatives in San Clemente and Pittsburgh. They told me it has been a little colder than normal. In the Villages, we had some chilly nights, as well. I am wondering if we are going to have a crazy winter. I have lived in Florida all my life and have experienced a few years of wicked cold. I am not looking forward to it happening, again. It seems El Niño was always the cause.

[Bill14564]

One obvious question is "what does the snowfall amount have to do with global warming?" In the winter in Anchorage, it is almost always cold enough to snow. Snowfall is related to precipitation, not temperature.

Just a guess that may not be correct.... Warming seas and air means more evaporation and more moisture in the air. More moisture means more precipitation. And of course, more precipitation in Alaska often means more snowfall.

[Two Bills]

El Nino has certainly been a factor influencing weather here in UK this summer.
Cool, lots of rain, and strong winds.
Cold and wet again today, and if it carries on like this through winter reckon we may have quite a lot of snow as well.

[Kelevision]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?
When you call in Climate Change and not Global Warming, it makes perfect sense.

[fdpaq0580]

Believe what you want. Fact is no one here is going to do anything about it one way or the other, other than lip service, that is. Just keep your El Nino (or El Nina) off my lawn.

[Topspinmo]

When you call in Climate Change and not Global Warming, it makes perfect sense.

Yes, you can’t argue climate change, cause climate will always change. Depending on what area you in it can be good or bad thing.

[Two Bills]

Believe what you want. Fact is no one here is going to do anything about it one way or the other, other than lip service, that is. Just keep your El Nino (or El Nina) off my lawn.

......and Excremento de perro

[Topspinmo]

Depends on which graph you pull up and how set up scale.

https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png

As you can see the rise on bigger scale now were near top of highest earth average temperatures.

Now when you create scale in tenths of degree the outcome looks totally different.

https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/ClimateDashboard-global-surface-temperature-graph-20230118-1400px.png

[PugMom]

I understand.I am concerned about El Niño. I have relatives in San Clemente and Pittsburgh. They told me it has been a little colder than normal. In the Villages, we had some chilly nights, as well. I am wondering if we are going to have a crazy winter. I have lived in Florida all my life and have experienced a few years of wicked cold. I am not looking forward to it happening, again. It seems El Niño was always the cause.

i wouldn't loose any sleep over it. the Earth has been here for how long? nothing dramatic to have temp changes, it's just weather

[retiredguy123]

i wouldn't loose any sleep over it. the Earth has been here for how long? nothing dramatic to have temp changes, it's just weather
About 5 billion years

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Just a guess that may not be correct.... Warming seas and air means more evaporation and more moisture in the air. More moisture means more precipitation. And of course, more precipitation in Alaska often means more snowfall.

Also when the temperature drops below 0°F for a few days in a row, you'll rarely see snow. In Alaska, it's pretty common to have 0-degree temps this time of year. The fact that it's snowing in record amounts means - it is WARM enough to snow, when normally it would not be.

[kansasr]

I'm sure your grandchildren are going to be really pleased with this attitude when they're trying to live in a world where our generation refused to see what we are doing to the planet.

[metalic]

The three stages of climate change denial:

1) claim that there is no climate change; when this gets untenable go to:
2) claim there is climate change but it's not caused by human activity; when this gets untenable go to:
3) claim that there is climate change, caused by human activity, but we can do nothing about it.

It is no coincidence that each of these "beliefs" let's the believer get off without having to do anything.

Other than continually referring to it as "global warming" so they can point to a bit of snow and go back to Stage 1.

The vast majority of scientists now accept that the average temperature of the Earth is rising.

Yes, the climate has always been in a state of change, but it is the RATE of the current change that is unprecedented, and clearly linked to the amount of greenhouse gases that humans have been pumping into the atmosphere since the start of industrialization. The current rate of change is so fast that nature can't keep up.

But nothing anyone says will convince the climate change deniers that they are wrong, as being wrong means they don't have to do anything different and can continue to live profligate, wasteful lives.

[Pugchief]

The three stages of climate change denial:

1) claim that there is no climate change; when this gets untenable go to:
2) claim there is climate change but it's not caused by human activity; when this gets untenable go to:
3) claim that there is climate change, caused by human activity, but we can do nothing about it.

It is no coincidence that each of these "beliefs" let's the believer get off without having to do anything.

Other than continually referring to it as "global warming" so they can point to a bit of snow and go back to Stage 1.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence now accepts that the average temperature of the Earth is rising.

Yes, the climate has always been in a state of change, but it is the RATE of the current change that is unprecedented, and clearly linked to the amount of greenhouse gases that humans have been pumping into the atmosphere since the start of industrialization. The current rate of change is so fast that nature can't keep up.

But nothing anyone says will convince the climate change deniers that they are wrong, as being wrong means they don't have to do anything different and can continue to live profligate, wasteful lives.

When the climate change alarmists voluntarily give up their air conditioning and cell phones to further the cause, I'll start paying attention.

[EastCoastDawg]

When the climate change alarmists voluntarily give up their air conditioning and cell phones to further the cause, I'll start paying attention.

How will you know?

[asianthree]

Our oldest lived in Fairbanks for 8 years. He compares weather (living in a polluted city) and current weather in Fairbanks (still polluted), stays pretty consistent

Snowfall factor remains about the same, of how many feet, small difference in glaciers, each summer both volunteered at remote glaciers, tundra’s for testing. The big difference is moose behavior, and sacred Raven snatching a 30 pound black garbage bag, or trying for one of the dogs.

Wildlife life seems to be changing to more city life, than in the past 20 years. Easy picking for garbage and meat curing outside of back doors in community

[ThirdOfFive]

I consider myself an analytical and open minded person, but I have never seen a convincing argument either for or against global warming, climate change, or whatever you want to call it. The amount of snow in Alaska in one year doesn't even come close to convincing me of anything. And, a lot of people seem to have a personal agenda that makes it even harder to convince me of anything related to climate change.
I agree. But at times it seems more than a personal agenda...more like a religious tenet. And like fundamentalists of whatever stripe, the True Believers, whatever side they're on, will defend their stand to the death regardless of fact.

Me? I'm an agnostic when it comes to this issue. But I surely wouldn't mind a few palm trees and citrus orchards in Minnesota (southern part, at least).

[Topspinmo]

The three stages of climate change denial:

1) claim that there is no climate change; when this gets untenable go to:
2) claim there is climate change but it's not caused by human activity; when this gets untenable go to:
3) claim that there is climate change, caused by human activity, but we can do nothing about it.

It is no coincidence that each of these "beliefs" let's the believer get off without having to do anything.

Other than continually referring to it as "global warming" so they can point to a bit of snow and go back to Stage 1.

The vast majority of scientists now accept that the average temperature of the Earth is rising.

Yes, the climate has always been in a state of change, but it is the RATE of the current change that is unprecedented, and clearly linked to the amount of greenhouse gases that humans have been pumping into the atmosphere since the start of industrialization. The current rate of change is so fast that nature can't keep up.

But nothing anyone says will convince the climate change deniers that they are wrong, as being wrong means they don't have to do anything different and can continue to live profligate, wasteful lives.

https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png

[Bill14564]

https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png

Notice that little line on the right that goes straight up? That is the rate of change that is being seen today that has not been seen in the recent past. There is one area 300 million years ago that might be similar but that was long enough ago that it can’t be called the recent past.

[Topspinmo]

Notice that little line on the right that goes straight up? That is the rate of change that is being seen today that has not been seen in the recent past. There is one area 300 million years ago that might be similar but that was long enough ago that it can’t be called the recent past.


https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/ClimateDashboard-global-surface-temperature-graph-20230118-1400px.png

This chart in hundred of degree so it look like we will burn in hail in couple years of actual almost 1 degree. You can find chart to backup your beliefs by pinpointing short look in time. IMO world over population and deforestation CAUSING ALL problems and will continue regardless unless we can control them.

[kkingston57]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?


Weather is local and snow is more contingent on moisture than the temperature

[asianthree]

[QUOTE=blueash;2274012]Your son living in Alaska hardly qualifies you or him as an authority on climate change. If he hasn't noticed a change in Alaska's glaciers, he is not paying attention or hasn't been there long enough to know the 20th century baseline.

************************************************** ********************************((**************** ********************

If one read my post I commented on SNOWFALL hasn’t had much of a change. As has the core sample of glaciers. State of Alaska hires physicians with extensive forensic background to core test glaciers and tundra, which results have stayed consistent. The glaciers, and tundra, that he and his team were dropped off, have Never been seen by the standard visitor. It would be too dangerous to regular public, only way in is a chopper backpacks, equipment and every person has Two firearms. Every 30 days either they were picked up and moved to a different locations, or more supplies dropped.

However your thoughts on his inability means when Smithsonian published him 3 times at age 22, 24, 26, (still the youngest) the youngest published for core samples of natives of Alaska. Guessing that 6 figure salary every summer for 8 years meant they were pleased with his ability. I will admit since he was at the top of his class, and turned down numerous colleges, medical school bills were few and far between, so on that thought, maybe instead of medical, he should have thought of education in global warming, cause 8 years of six figures for 3.3 summer months of work is sometimes not worth risk of life or limb

Big difference in living in Alaskan culture for multiple years, and reading articles on the net. Plus you assume one that has educated experience to your ability to google stuff, is if lesser value.

In Alaskan territory climate change as stated is noticeable by change of behavior in moose, and ravens, since they are leaving the wild, and entering into populations of humans. Bear have always been active in communities, so climate change may or may not be an issue.

It’s also hard to determine if climate change effects the Nomadic culture, since they are continuously on the move, to search for food.

[golfing eagles]

Why? They're not concerned that their own generation is living with dying coral beds, dying ecosystem, all caused by human intervention. They don't care that China has no more room for garbage imported from the USA, so we have to add more trash heaps to our own country, and Georgia doesn't have more room for ours.

They don't care that droughts and hurricanes and floods and unseasonable freezes in warm climates have caused foods of all types to go up in price. They don't care that there's a systematic push to raze land previously occupied by bees and butterflies for drilling and "the wall", which means less pollination, which means either more unhealthy fertilizers polluting our waters or entering our bloodstreams (or both).

The only thing they care about is which political party to blame it on. They accept zero responsibility for their own personal contribution to the problem and will reject the existence of the problem entirely, if it turns out "their side" is to blame.

Total dribble

[Rainger99]

If you want to talk real climate change, read this.

Siberian Traps - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Traps?wprov=sfti1#)

The planet had two million years of volcanic eruptions. The Siberian Traps are believed to be the primary cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event!

And the planet is still here!

“Experts” are saying we have only 10 years left to save the planet.

[Blackbird45]

Whomever coin the title global warming should be taken to the woodshed; it really is climate change.
I don't think at this point anyone can deny that the climate is changing. The question is, is this due to mankind or is this the earth going through a normal cycle.
I'm not a scientist and cannot answer that question. But what is obvious man is polluting air, land and water on the pursuit for profits.

[Byte1]

Isn't it interesting that if one believes in the changing climate BUT does not believe that mankind is responsible, then they are labeled "deniers?" Even when one acknowledges the changing temperatures or rainfall, it is not enough. They must/MUST accept that mankind is the evil in the world causing the ultimate destruction of our ecosystem, or they are ignorant and blind. One solution I have heard on here recently was that we limit the size of human population. Sounds good to me......tell your grandkids NOT to have children. Not that this will eliminate Climate Change, but it sounds real good. To the Chicken Littles of the world, "The Sky is falling, the sky is falling!" Not denying, just don't care.

[Byte1]

Whomever coin the title global warming should be taken to the woodshed; it really is climate change.
I don't think at this point anyone can deny that the climate is changing. The question is, is this due to mankind or is this the earth going through a normal cycle.
I'm not a scientist and cannot answer that question. But what is obvious man is polluting air, land and water on the pursuit for profits.

"Man" cannot profit unless there are those that are buying his(HER) product. I doubt there are very many folks out there that wish to do away with planes, trains and automobiles, environmental control. artificial light and communication. I believe that most folks enjoy their food cooked.

[MorTech]

Man-made Climate Change = If you repeat a big lie often enough, the mindless masses will come to believe it.

[ProfessorDave]

Was just there in September. Wearing shorts the whole time. No jacket. Short sleeve shirt most days. Very fee glaciers to see.

[Blackbird45]

"Man" cannot profit unless there are those that are buying his(HER) product. I doubt there are very many folks out there that wish to do away with planes, trains and automobiles, environmental control. artificial light and communication. I believe that most folks enjoy their food cooked.

I'm not suggesting that people should deprive themselves of these comforts, but if you know there a chance to have all of this without polluting everything on this planet maybe we should spend the extra buck to find a solution.
EVs are more popular in Europe, than they are here. Not because Europeans are more interested in saving the planet but because countries like Germany pay almost $7 a gallon for gas. Like I said before, it all has to do with money.

[Two Bills]

I'm not suggesting that people should deprive themselves of these comforts, but if you know there a chance to have all of this without polluting everything on this planet maybe we should spend the extra buck to find a solution.
EVs are more popular in Europe, than they are here. Not because Europeans are more interested in saving the planet but because countries like Germany pay almost $7 a gallon for gas. Like I said before, it all has to do with money.

................and in UK it costs $25-$30 each time you fully charge a Tesla.

[DonnaNi4os]

El Niño has kept FL pretty safe during hurricane season. But La Niña, his cousin, usually follows and brings more chances of hurricanes here. There is no doubt that each year has brought about hotter weather. If you lived in TV this summer you would certainly agree. But climate change is kind of like a fickle child throwing a tantrum. It was cooler in places you would expect it to be hot and hotter where you would expect it to be cold. I’ve been a resident of FL since Nov of 2017. That New Year’s Eve the temps dropped into the 20’s, a rude awakening to this transplant from NJ. Winter of 2022, into the beginning 2023, brought deep freezes that killed a lot of vegetation and costly plants here in FL. It is expected to be that way again this year. Climate change appears to be here to stay and we must learn to adapt. A huge part of the problem starts with the Rain Forest where deforestation has changed the climate and impacted our weather. Known as the lungs of the earth, it undoubtedly has been a huge contributor to the changes we are experiencing and very few people are talking about it.

[lpkruege1]

Summer heat is Global Warming.
Winter snow is Climate Change.
I personally think winter weather has something to do with it! :shrug:


You know the one thing about the weather, it will change. Give it a half an hour. LOL

[Bill14564]

................and in UK it costs $25-$30 each time you fully charge a Tesla.

*IF* that is true it still costs less than the equivalent amount of gasoline IN THE US! Since fuel is much more expensive in the UK, charging a Tesla is still cheaper than buying gas.

[Battlebasset]

The three stages of climate change denial:

1) claim that there is no climate change; when this gets untenable go to:
2) claim there is climate change but it's not caused by human activity; when this gets untenable go to:
3) claim that there is climate change, caused by human activity, but we can do nothing about it.

It is no coincidence that each of these "beliefs" let's the believer get off without having to do anything.

Other than continually referring to it as "global warming" so they can point to a bit of snow and go back to Stage 1.

The vast majority of scientists now accept that the average temperature of the Earth is rising.

Yes, the climate has always been in a state of change, but it is the RATE of the current change that is unprecedented, and clearly linked to the amount of greenhouse gases that humans have been pumping into the atmosphere since the start of industrialization. The current rate of change is so fast that nature can't keep up.

But nothing anyone says will convince the climate change deniers that they are wrong, as being wrong means they don't have to do anything different and can continue to live profligate, wasteful lives.

So my personal belief is that if the climate is changing in an adverse fashion to human life (it's always changing, BTW) that the way to address it is via engineering and adaptation. Thinking we can change the climate of an entire planet with EV, solar panels, and wind turbines is the height of hubris, IMO. Of course, we should look for ways to reduce pollution that meet a cost/benefit analysis. But CO2 is not a pollutant, it is a necessary component of the air we breath that supports plant life.

But I wanted to address your last point (I put it in bold). You are accusing people that don't buy into the "human caused/human fixable" climate change theory that they are "profligate and wasteful". I would like a better definition of that, and examples of how you live your life differently from those that you accuse of being "profligate and wasteful". Thanks in advance.

[Ptmcbriz]

Global warming is temperature averages over the past several hundred years along with measurements from ice cores. It’s an average. Overall our planet is increasing. Being an average means there will be ebb and flows of seasonal temps higher and lower during seasons, but when you factor all the temps globally over time the data is unmistakable. The average is increasing. You can’t judge global warming by using one specific geographical location during one season. That’s not an average over hundreds of years.

[MikeN]

Anyone who doesn’t believe climate change is not real isn’t watching what is happening. It’s evident here in Florida with hotter summers and stronger storms. Not just about effects of winter storms. It’s year round It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

[Wondering]

Global warming - Climate change. It's not saying that Alaska won't get snow again, It's saying the world's climates are changing, to our detriment, because of global warming in the northern and southern poles, adding an increase in water levels throughout the world. Do some legitimate research before you pass on nonsense! Pathetic.

[RRGuyNJ]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?


"Back in my day, we called an event like this WEATHER." ( Quote stated in the best Old Man voice I could come up with)
:thumbup:

[Two Bills]

*IF* that is true it still costs less than the equivalent amount of gasoline IN THE US! Since fuel is much more expensive in the UK, charging a Tesla is still cheaper than buying gas.

My bad. That actually was older cost per kWh..
I hadn't noticed our current Government cap on electricity prices has been lowered.

If that is at the current Ofgem cap of £0.27 per kWh the Tesla will cost £20.25 to charge from 0 to 100%.30 Oct 2023 (about $24.70 at today's Ex.rate)

So cheaper than I stated. Our gas is a little cheaper as well, despite all the goings on in Middle East.

[Burgy]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

There will be ups and downs but when enough ice and snow melts around the poles it will get hotter and hotter.

[Erider]

Global warming - Climate change. It's not saying that Alaska won't get snow again, It's saying the world's climates are changing, to our detriment, because of global warming in the northern and southern poles, adding an increase in water levels throughout the world. Do some legitimate research before you pass on nonsense! Pathetic.

New Study Finds Most Of Antarctica Has Cooled By Over 1°C Since 1999…W. Antarctica Cooled 1.8°C

Significant West Antarctic Cooling in the Past Two Decades Driven by Tropical Pacific Forcing in: Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Volume 104 Issue 6 (2023) (https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/104/6/BAMS-D-22-0153.1.xml)

[jimjamuser]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?
Snowfall amounts do NOT negate Global Warming. It takes WARM air to create snow (when cold air meets WARM air). Scientists take thousands of reading over the whole earth and also the ocean. remember the ocean is rising from melting ice at BOTH poles and MORE rapidly than scientists expected.
........So Anchorage has some snow....big deal......statistically, that is an N or ONE. Just ONE reading on a whole earth full of readings that point to the CONCLUSION that the last 8 or 10 years show dangerous warming that is MAN-MADE.
........but nice try, I am sure that the DENIERS will run hard with this thread. I can't wait to see the "200 million years ago we started into a warming period.....and NOT man-made".

[JRcorvette]

That's why it has been convenient to rename the agenda as "Climate Change" so that they can be "technically" correct, no matter what the weather outcome. Some are predicting one of our coldest winters this year. Personally, I would be fine with some warming, whether global or otherwise. I moved here for the warm/hot temps.

Exactly correct. The biggest Fleecing of America and the World ever.

[JMintzer]

Total dribble

https://i.gifer.com/3yMc.gif

[Pennyt]

Anyone interested in things like this should watch the documentary "Life on Our Planet" - will make you think twice about our frail existence. We are relative newcomers to Earth and probably not destined to last long. We will be the first species to bring about our own mass extinction. The film is on Netflix.

[Byte1]

I'm not suggesting that people should deprive themselves of these comforts, but if you know there a chance to have all of this without polluting everything on this planet maybe we should spend the extra buck to find a solution.
EVs are more popular in Europe, than they are here. Not because Europeans are more interested in saving the planet but because countries like Germany pay almost $7 a gallon for gas. Like I said before, it all has to do with money.

Air quality IS better today than it was when I was a child. Money HAS been spent, sometimes wasted on ideas. The only way to completely rid our planet of man made pollution is to get rid of mankind, period. And that ain't gonna happen. Humans have populated the world for thousands of years. I don't care what research is done under the guise of a cure for global warming, climate change and air quality. Just don't force me to pay for it when there are a lot of wealthier folks exploiting the environment for their own enjoyment. As long as the law allows it, I will use fossil fuel, burn wood in my smoker(or charcoal) and run my A/C. As far as global warming is concerned, I am all for it. I didn't move to Florida for the sand, sand fleas and swamps. And I didn't move here for snow skiing either. I'm one more vote for warm weather and sunshine. :clap2:

[Chi-Town]

I remember when "Hot enough for you today?' wasn't a multi thread conversation starter. Moving to dog poop status on the TOTV meter.

[Acordionist]

Global warming affects ALL the seasons. We should learn more about the scientific and proven effects of it instead of dismissing it

[Taltarzac725]

Global warming affects ALL the seasons. We should learn more about the scientific and proven effects of it instead of dismissing it


Nicely put. And use an open mind but throw some critical thinking into the mix.

[kingofbeer]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?
This is an isolated incident. Why are you challenging Global Warming? Last summer was the hottest on record.

[frayedends]

I've got some carbon credits leftover if anyone wants to buy some.

[bilclif]

In 1987 Asia produced 5.74 B tons of CO2, the U.S, produced 4.83 B tons. In 2021 Asia 20.70 B tons, U, S. 4.72 B tons. Our automobiles produce .375 B tons of CO2. If U.S. totally eliminated CO2 production Asia would bring worldwide production back to current level in 2 years. Go to ourworldindata.com and see what a pimple United States is the worldwide production of CO2. Do we have a right as a developed nation to tell the undeveloped nations they have to stay in the dark ages which is the only way to lower CO2 production worldwide. We humans have gotten where we are because we are adaptable. I think our adaptability will serve us well in the future not windmills, solar panels, and electric cars. My data came from ourworldindata.com.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In 1987 Asia produced 5.74 B tons of CO2, the U.S, produced 4.83 B tons. In 2021 Asia 20.70 B tons, U, S. 4.72 B tons. Our automobiles produce .375 B tons of CO2. If U.S. totally eliminated CO2 production Asia would bring worldwide production back to current level in 2 years. Go to ourworldindata.com and see what a pimple United States is the worldwide production of CO2. Do we have a right as a developed nation to tell the undeveloped nations they have to stay in the dark ages which is the only way to lower CO2 production worldwide. We humans have gotten where we are because we are adaptable. I think our adaptability will serve us well in the future not windmills, solar panels, and electric cars. My data came from ourworldindata.com.

Might want to backtrack a bit and learn the difference between a continent and a country. Asia is not a country. And, the continent of North America isn't made up exclusively of the US.

Also might consider looking down that webpage to the CO2 emissions per capita - you'll see Americans emit almost as much CO2 as China does, not quite as much as Australians do, and less than Saudi Arabians. But all other countries emit less per capita than the US.

[Reynoka]

I live in Reno. Where our house is located east of the sierra mountains, we had a decade of only needing to shovel once or twice a winter. The past couple years we hired a shoveling service because we have been having regular snowfalls for months on end! The ski slopes in the past decade often couldn’t open until after the new year. One opened last week because it is so cold already. It seems part of typical patterns for the region if you read the history of the area.

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

[jimjamuser]

Believe what you want. Fact is no one here is going to do anything about it one way or the other, other than lip service, that is. Just keep your El Nino (or El Nina) off my lawn.
Yes, you can help to stop Global Warming. Simply buy an E-bike, an E-golf cart, an E-car, or an E-truck. That will put less CO2 into the upper atmosphere and lessen the HEAT reflection.

[jimjamuser]

i wouldn't loose any sleep over it. the Earth has been here for how long? nothing dramatic to have temp changes, it's just weather
Scientists disagree !!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Why? They're not concerned that their own generation is living with dying coral beds, dying ecosystem, all caused by human intervention. They don't care that China has no more room for garbage imported from the USA, so we have to add more trash heaps to our own country, and Georgia doesn't have more room for ours.

They don't care that droughts and hurricanes and floods and unseasonable freezes in warm climates have caused foods of all types to go up in price. They don't care that there's a systematic push to raze land previously occupied by bees and butterflies for drilling and "the wall", which means less pollination, which means either more unhealthy fertilizers polluting our waters or entering our bloodstreams (or both).

The only thing they care about is which political party to blame it on. They accept zero responsibility for their own personal contribution to the problem and will reject the existence of the problem entirely, if it turns out "their side" is to blame.
Good thought-provoking post.

[jimjamuser]

Weather is local and snow is more contingent on moisture than the temperature
The higher the temperature the more water vapor that AIR can hold.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, you can help to stop Global Warming. Simply buy an E-bike, an E-golf cart, an E-car, or an E-truck. That will put less CO2 into the upper atmosphere and lessen the HEAT reflection.

It just isn't that simple. Arkansas will now be hosting Exxon-Mobile's first foray into the United States with mining lithium. The process involves separating the lithium from saltwater. In Arkansas. A landlocked state. There's no natural saltwater, they have to drill over 10,000 feet to get to it. The process also results in pollution to area freshwater sources. Which means - a whole lot of new employees to do the drilling, and a whole lot of new employees to dig new plots in cemeteries to bury all the people who will die from poisoned water sources.

And that's because - there is no place to PUT the polluted water, they don't have the kinds of treatment plants necessary to clean the toxic waste produced by the lithium drilling operation.

No point in reducing global warming that will happen eventually whether we contribute to it or not, if everyone is dead before it ever gets that far.

There's lots of lithium in Arkansas. So there's going to be lots of drilling. And lots of displaced wildlife who have to live somewhere, but won't be living near the wells. The country will be less reliant on foreign sources for lithium - which is where you get those batteries for your electric vehicles. So we pollute the land to get the lithium that makes the batteries we use in our electric cars that we drive to prevent pollution from oil drilling.

See what I mean? It's not that simple.

[jimjamuser]

"Man" cannot profit unless there are those that are buying his(HER) product. I doubt there are very many folks out there that wish to do away with planes, trains and automobiles, environmental control. artificial light and communication. I believe that most folks enjoy their food cooked.
The only SACRIFICES that need to be made are for 30 % of new car, truck, and golf cart buyers to purchase E-vehicles instead of the polluting internal combustion vehicles.

[jimjamuser]

Total dribble
Is that worse than double dribble in basketball?

[jimjamuser]

Global warming is temperature averages over the past several hundred years along with measurements from ice cores. It’s an average. Overall our planet is increasing. Being an average means there will be ebb and flows of seasonal temps higher and lower during seasons, but when you factor all the temps globally over time the data is unmistakable. The average is increasing. You can’t judge global warming by using one specific geographical location during one season. That’s not an average over hundreds of years.
The last 8 years are the warmest in recorded history. Definitely man-made !!!!!!

[JMintzer]

Yes, you can help to stop Global Warming. Simply buy an E-bike, an E-golf cart, an E-car, or an E-truck. That will put less CO2 into the upper atmosphere and lessen the HEAT reflection.

Remind me... What brand of E-bike, E-golf cart, E-car/truck did you purchase?

[JMintzer]

The last 8 years are the warmest in recorded history. Definitely man-made !!!!!!

Yes, because man has been around for only 8 years...

[JMintzer]

The higher the temperature the more water vapor that AIR can hold.

Which increases the temp more than CO2 does...

[margaretmattson]

The higher the temperature the more water vapor that AIR can hold.It is unusual to have record breaking snowfall in early November. I believe the El Niño effect is responsible. Record breaking precipitation is being seen throughout the world. Some major cities have flooded due to an abundance of rain. Buckle up your seat belts! Most likely, we are going to see some crazy weather this year.

As a side note, some posters stated precipitation is not an element of climate. It most definitely is! The rain forest and arid climates are perfect examples.

[Pairadocs]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

Well.... to start with, could it be a "follow the money" thing... do you think it's possible that many have made a great deal of money by engaging in research projects that support global warming ? There are so many ways to produce convincing "research", the average man on the street (whoever that is) unless they completed an earned PhD with a research requirement, have no idea how easy it is to set up a study to "prove" whatever you wish to prove. Choose your variables carefully, ignore any that might counter indicate, set your level of error carefully, chose your experimental groups carefully.. it is very easy when you know the structure, but, I doubt very much that any climate scientists would engage in such "adjusted" study formats, just like our pharmaceutical manufacturers would never construct trials and studies to produce favorable results for a new medicine or vaccine, right ?

[margaretmattson]

Well.... to start with, could it be a "follow the money" thing... do you think it's possible that many have made a great deal of money by engaging in research projects that support global warming ? There are so many ways to produce convincing "research", the average man on the street (whoever that is) unless they completed an earned PhD with a research requirement, have no idea how easy it is to set up a study to "prove" whatever you wish to prove. Choose your variables carefully, ignore any that might counter indicate, set your level of error carefully, chose your experimental groups carefully.. it is very easy when you know the structure, but, I doubt very much that any climate scientists would engage in such "adjusted" study formats, just like our pharmaceutical manufacturers would never construct trials and studies to produce favorable results for a new medicine or vaccine, right ?Probably true. For some, money is a motivating factor.

[dhdallas]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

Did you know that commercial snow crab fishing in the Bering Sea off Alaska has been banned for the second straight year? There has been a huge decline from 8 billion down to 1 billion in the crab population due to the warming waters which increase the crab's metabolism and cause them to starve. The crab season has never been canceled before.

Global warming/climate change statistics are the result of averaging temperatures over an entire year. Yes, some winters may be colder than others but over a period of years, decades and centuries the earth's temperatures have been steadily rising. To deny scientific facts and to do nothing to combat the warming trend shows total disregard and selfishness for the generations to follow.

[Randall55]

Did you know that commercial snow crab fishing in the Bering Sea off Alaska has been banned for the second straight year? There has been a huge decline from 8 billion down to 1 billion in the crab population due to the warming waters which increase the crab's metabolism and cause them to starve. The crab season has never been canceled before.

Global warming/climate change statistics are the result of averaging temperatures over an entire year. Yes, some winters may be colder than others but over a period of years, decades and centuries the earth's temperatures have been steadily rising. To deny scientific facts and to do nothing to combat the warming trend shows total disregard and selfishness for the generations to follow. If the heavy snowstorms continue throughout the season, this should help cool the water temperature. Perhaps, not significantly, but any reduction is better than none.

[Randall55]

Global warming - Climate change. It's not saying that Alaska won't get snow again, It's saying the world's climates are changing, to our detriment, because of global warming in the northern and southern poles, adding an increase in water levels throughout the world. Do some legitimate research before you pass on nonsense! Pathetic.One of the concerns of global warming is increased levels of precipitation. My questions were:
1. Is the cause El Niño? Which would be a 2023 weather phenomena.

2.Are scientists shaking their heads in disbelief? Increased precipitation would mean their theory is looking to be correct. This year, several cities have been flooded due to an abundance of rain. It is continuing with EARLY record breaking snow fall. It may sound counterintuitive, but heavy snowfall can be a result of global warming.

3.Why hasn't this seen more news coverage? Followers of global warming would want ALL weather emergencies to be reported.

[Byte1]

The only SACRIFICES that need to be made are for 30 % of new car, truck, and golf cart buyers to purchase E-vehicles instead of the polluting internal combustion vehicles.

You first. I'm not interested in EVs at this time. I can find better things to spend my limited income on. But, I think it's great that "others" play with EVs. EVs have been around since the 1800's and have yet to become that efficient or popular. On the other hand, natural gas or hydrogen powered vehicles are probably a better idea in the evolution of powered transportation.

[biker1]

Like it or not, EVs are a disruptive technology and will continue to gain popularity. The Tesla Model Y (their small SUV, about the size of a Toyota RAV4 or Honda CR-V) is the best selling new car in the world and the US. By 2030, EVs are projected to be 50% of new car sales. From an energy perspective, EVs consume much less energy than gas cars although the manufacturing process for an EV consumes more energy than a gas car. Natural gas and hydrogen powered vehicles will most likely remain a niche form of transportation. The issue is a lack of a distribution network and the high cost of developing one. With EVs, every garage is a recharging station and publicly available recharging stations are rapidly being built out across the world. Most importantly, Governments and car manufacturers are "all in" with EVs. There are financial incentives to buy an EV by the Government (just like there are for houses) but you will not be forced to buy an EV. Gas powered vehicles will most likely be around for the next 30 years.

You first. I'm not interested in EVs at this time. I can find better things to spend my limited income on. But, I think it's great that "others" play with EVs. EVs have been around since the 1800's and have yet to become that efficient or popular. On the other hand, natural gas or hydrogen powered vehicles are probably a better idea in the evolution of powered transportation.

[Battlebasset]

Yup. EV, solar panels, and wind turbines are going to change the climate of an entire planet. Especially if the US is the only one to do it.

If human caused climate change believers were really serious about addressing the "issue", and not just finding ways to extract money from government and gain power, they would:

1. Increase the use of NG for transportation and power generation. Burns 30% cleaner than gasoline, and requires far less refining, so even less energy used.

2. Ramp up nuclear power to eventually provide for all of our electric needs. Zero emissions.

3. Utilize battery power where is has the most impact. Which is not cars. It is smaller ICE (lawnmowers, chainsaws) that pollute far more per cubic inch than do automobiles.

Even so, these things won't make much difference. Weather is going to do what it's going to do. The best use of our money, other than the items I note above, is to invest in engineering solutions to aid in man's adaptation to changing weather patterns.

[jimjamuser]

It just isn't that simple. Arkansas will now be hosting Exxon-Mobile's first foray into the United States with mining lithium. The process involves separating the lithium from saltwater. In Arkansas. A landlocked state. There's no natural saltwater, they have to drill over 10,000 feet to get to it. The process also results in pollution to area freshwater sources. Which means - a whole lot of new employees to do the drilling, and a whole lot of new employees to dig new plots in cemeteries to bury all the people who will die from poisoned water sources.

And that's because - there is no place to PUT the polluted water, they don't have the kinds of treatment plants necessary to clean the toxic waste produced by the lithium drilling operation.

No point in reducing global warming that will happen eventually whether we contribute to it or not, if everyone is dead before it ever gets that far.

There's lots of lithium in Arkansas. So there's going to be lots of drilling. And lots of displaced wildlife who have to live somewhere, but won't be living near the wells. The country will be less reliant on foreign sources for lithium - which is where you get those batteries for your electric vehicles. So we pollute the land to get the lithium that makes the batteries we use in our electric cars that we drive to prevent pollution from oil drilling.

See what I mean? It's not that simple.
That's TRUE, and I would just add that most all inventions and societal changes come with SOME form of DOWNSIDE. Eventually, there may be a better replacement for the lithium battery (like maybe a hydrogen cell or something that we have never even heard about).
........I believe that the internal combustion engine is now "long in the tooth" and is being replaced as we speak. The US has 8% new cars that are E-powered (lithium) and Europe has about 20% of new vehicle sales of e-vehicles. I think that if the US got to 30% ONLY that the upper atmosphere reflecting layer would begin to heal and we would BEGIN to REVERSE Global Warming. This is JUST my guess, but at least it is practical and achievable without a total replacement of all ICE vehicles.
.........With E-vehicles we do NOT have to stop pollution at EVERY MOVING VEHICLE like with ICE vehicles (which is difficult). We have better control of the pollution coming from the Electricity generating Companies and sources.
.........And a VERY big positive would be that we would NOT have to KISS the butts of the Saudi Arabians. And we might better avoid Middle East wars.

[jimjamuser]

You first. I'm not interested in EVs at this time. I can find better things to spend my limited income on. But, I think it's great that "others" play with EVs. EVs have been around since the 1800's and have yet to become that efficient or popular. On the other hand, natural gas or hydrogen powered vehicles are probably a better idea in the evolution of powered transportation.
In Europe, EVs represent 20 % of new car sales. It is 6 % in the US. But, remember, "the trend is your friend"!

[Topspinmo]

Did you know that commercial snow crab fishing in the Bering Sea off Alaska has been banned for the second straight year? There has been a huge decline from 8 billion down to 1 billion in the crab population due to the warming waters which increase the crab's metabolism and cause them to starve. The crab season has never been canceled before.

Global warming/climate change statistics are the result of averaging temperatures over an entire year. Yes, some winters may be colder than others but over a period of years, decades and centuries the earth's temperatures have been steadily rising. To deny scientific facts and to do nothing to combat the warming trend shows total disregard and selfishness for the generations to follow.

Or due to dredging the oceans clean of fish. Over fishing probably the cause. China dredging fleets doesn’t really care about seasons or international law.

[Topspinmo]

In Europe, EVs represent 20 % of new car sales. It is 6 % in the US. But, remember, "the trend is your friend"!

Europe better suited for EV, they don’t travel as far as we do and have. Better public transportation. Heard on news (can trust news?) EV sales are tending up, but manufacturers are trending EV production down cause the losing their ___ on them.

[Two Bills]

Yup. EV, solar panels, and wind turbines are going to change the climate of an entire planet. Especially if the US is the only one to do it.

I think you will find that the US is far from being on its own regarding the power sources you mention, in fact, compared to Europe, Scandinavia, and many other countries, America is lagging way behind.
When you consider the amount of sunshine that Florida alone gets, you would think a solar farm or two around/in The Villages, could probably make the place self sufficient for electric energy.
Probably show a profit selling surplus electricity to local grid.

[Topspinmo]

I think you will find that the US is far from being on its own regarding the power sources you mention, in fact, compared to Europe, Scandinavia, and many other countries, America is lagging way behind.
When you consider the amount of sunshine that Florida alone gets, you would think a solar farm or two around/in The Villages, could probably make the place self sufficient for electric energy.
Probably show a profit selling surplus electricity to local grid.


IMO Cause 100x population and area. Have to cover half state and stop contrails from blocking sun rays.

[margaretmattson]

I think you will find that the US is far from being on its own regarding the power sources you mention, in fact, compared to Europe, Scandinavia, and many other countries, America is lagging way behind.
When you consider the amount of sunshine that Florida alone gets, you would think a solar farm or two around/in The Villages, could probably make the place self sufficient for electric energy.
Probably show a profit selling surplus electricity to local grid.I have been on several missions through our church. To say the USA is lagging behind is an understatement. I am amazed at what some countries have been able to achieve. Hopefully, we get our heads out of the sand soon.

[Two Bills]

IMO Cause 100x population and area. Have to cover half state and stop contrails from blocking sun rays.

Contrails?
Think you need to read up on how modern day solar panels work.

[Byte1]

In Europe, EVs represent 20 % of new car sales. It is 6 % in the US. But, remember, "the trend is your friend"!

Like I said, "you first." I don't believe in your herd mentality, preferring to make my own way. I do not care what others wish to do regarding EVs. Like the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. I do know that when an EV golf cart goes dead due to a low power battery, it gets towed. When a fossil fuel golf cart runs dry, a simple solution is a gallon of gas to get it home and further. Unlike some folks(?) on here, I do not care what Europe, Australia or other countries do. That's their business and we do not control their actions. I use battery operated tools because I don't want the smell of gas in my garage. They are not better than fossil fuel tools.

[margaretmattson]

Like I said, "you first." I don't believe in your herd mentality, preferring to make my own way. I do not care what others wish to do regarding EVs. Like the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. I do know that when an EV golf cart goes dead due to a low power battery, it gets towed. When a fossil fuel golf cart runs dry, a simple solution is a gallon of gas to get it home and further. Unlike some folks(?) on here, I do not care what Europe, Australia or other countries do. That's their business and we do not control their actions. I use battery operated tools because I don't want the smell of gas in my garage. They are not better than fossil fuel tools.I don't believe we were only talking about EV vehicles. That is only ONE change that has been made in other countries. In general, we were talking about how other countries have implemented ways to adapt to our changing world. Stronger structures to withstand storms, solar power, wind power, crops that can grow in drought conditions, reforestation, water preservation, etc.

[Byte1]

I don't believe we were only talking about EV vehicles. That is only ONE change that has been made in other countries. In general, we were talking about how other countries have implemented ways to adapt to our changing world. Stronger structures to withstand storms, solar power, wind power, crops that can grow in drought conditions, etc.

Good for them. I've lived in many other countries and I've noticed how many of them that are supposed to be considered middle class earners are living no better than our poverty level. And I am including European countries in that statement. It is very easy to compare our GIANT country to the tiny countries that are able to live successfully in a socialist economy, where the gov controls everything from power to transportation. We do not have the mass transit infrastructure of those small countries. We are spread out and folks drive an hour plus each way to work every day, NOT ten minutes a few blocks away or a quick train ride to work. Americans have no patience and attempt to put the cart before the horse in many issues. Before you can power transportation or environmental conditions you must first understand and produce the power needed for those conditions. It's all about sufficient power and right now we have the machinery but not the adequate power. It's all about resources.
And I still don't think that man can do anything to control the world's climate control or change the so-call global warming or cooling. Unless, man decides to build huge domes to cover populated areas where they can have climate control.
Global Warming? Ok, so what? I enjoy warm, even hot weather. I doubt, I'll be around to see enough temp change to make a difference in my lifestyle. I'll leave all the worries to the Z generation, if they even have the intelligence to think given the drop in education quality in this country.

[biker1]

To supply The Villages with electric power, you would need about a 400 MW solar farm. This would cost about $500M and take up about 1000 acres of land. You would also need battery storage to be completely independent of outside power sources. If you wanted
enough battery storage for 1 day of average residential usage that may cost another $300M.

I think you will find that the US is far from being on its own regarding the power sources you mention, in fact, compared to Europe, Scandinavia, and many other countries, America is lagging way behind.
When you consider the amount of sunshine that Florida alone gets, you would think a solar farm or two around/in The Villages, could probably make the place self sufficient for electric energy.
Probably show a profit selling surplus electricity to local grid.

[Normal]

We need to mine extra hard and tear up way more land to get our battery production going. We also need more factories to make batteries and tear down some of these windmills that are killing so much wildlife. When will we figure out what to do with all this dangerous waste from broken solar panels and nuclear reactors?

Just do all this and our environment will be fine…

[margaretmattson]

Good for them. I've lived in many other countries and I've noticed how many of them that are supposed to be considered middle class earners are living no better than our poverty level. And I am including European countries in that statement. It is very easy to compare our GIANT country to the tiny countries that are able to live successfully in a socialist economy, where the gov controls everything from power to transportation. We do not have the mass transit infrastructure of those small countries. We are spread out and folks drive an hour plus each way to work every day, NOT ten minutes a few blocks away or a quick train ride to work. Americans have no patience and attempt to put the cart before the horse in many issues. Before you can power transportation or environmental conditions you must first understand and produce the power needed for those conditions. It's all about sufficient power and right now we have the machinery but not the adequate power. It's all about resources.
And I still don't think that man can do anything to control the world's climate control or change the so-call global warming or cooling. Unless, man decides to build huge domes to cover populated areas where they can have climate control.
Global Warming? Ok, so what? I enjoy warm, even hot weather. I doubt, I'll be around to see enough temp change to make a difference in my lifestyle. I'll leave all the worries to the Z generation, if they even have the intelligence to think given the drop in education quality in this country.Be careful what you wish for! With extreme heat comes drought and famine in some areas. Strong storms and flooding, in others. If every state made a few small changes, that would help. Example: Several western states are at a risk of running out of water. However, residents act like it is a scare tactic and use more. Water conservation is easy to implement. But, very few want to.

[Two Bills]

To supply The Villages with electric power, you would need about a 400 MW solar farm. This would cost about $500M and take up about 1000 acres of land. You would also need battery storage to be completely independent of outside power sources. If you wanted
enough battery storage for 1 day of average residential usage that may cost another $300M.

Plenty of space around TV and area for Solar energy. Our farmers earn a fortune from energy companies leasing/selling them land
As an example.
Our local village shop here in UK is powered by solar energy. It is roofed with solar tiles, and powers lighting, fridges, freezers etc.
Excess power generated is sold to and diverted into the National Grid.
In evening when no solar energy, shop buys back power from grid at national rate.
No batteries needed or involved.
In the four years it has been running its electric cost has been in profit.
Installation costs are the only outgoings, and will be paid off in 5 more years.
Given the amount of sun and daylight we get here in UK compared to Florida, I still maintain The Villages, and for that matter Florida are way behind the times and missing out on a source of energy that could lower costs dramatically.
Sometimes a little vision of the future, and what is down the road is needed.
Do I have it? No. Installation costs and upheaval involved in our present house would be prohibitive, but if I was building a new house, I wouldn't hesitate to install.
JMHO.

[Bill14564]

Plenty of space around TV and area for Solar energy. Our farmers earn a fortune from energy companies leasing/selling them land
As an example.
Our local village shop here in UK is powered by solar energy. It is roofed with solar tiles, and powers lighting, fridges, freezers etc.
Excess power generated is sold to and diverted into the National Grid.
In evening when no solar energy, shop buys back power from grid at national rate.
No batteries needed or involved.
...

What you describe saves money for the homeowner and possibly makes money if electricity can be sold back. Without batteries, it is only effective during sunny days but we do have a lot of those here. Perhaps the installation can be paid off in four years but that means no savings to the homeowner for those four years since the money is going back into the initial construction.

Is there really enough land around the Villages? Since I don't feel like looking it up, let's assume the 1,000 acres is correct. With a density of about five homes per acre here, that would require giving up an area that would otherwise be used to construct 5,000 new homes or about two year's worth of construction. If the developer gets even 10% of the price of the new home as profit then at $400K per home that would come out to about $200M in lost profit. Is it realistic to believe the developer would forego $200M worth of profit from new homes to build a solar farm to supply existing homes?

Will the electric company purchase excess power? There was a bill defeated last year that would have stripped much of the profitability of selling rooftop solar electric back to the company. Is it likely that the electric company would not fight tooth and nail to save themselves from having to purchase solar from a 1,000 acre farm? They would already be taking a loss of income from 80,000 homes so they certainly would not be interested in paying money back to those homes. If excess electric cannot be sold back to the company then it will take more than four years to pay back the initial investment.

Could it be done? Sure, nearly anything can be done. Is it feasible? I don't see a lot of companies currently attempting it which might be an indication that it is not.

[biker1]

I believe one of the issues with solar in Florida is the abundance of cheap electricity. This can result in a relatively long payback period for a solar installation. Also, the panels continue to drop in price so there is some incentive to wait.

Plenty of space around TV and area for Solar energy. Our farmers earn a fortune from energy companies leasing/selling them land
As an example.
Our local village shop here in UK is powered by solar energy. It is roofed with solar tiles, and powers lighting, fridges, freezers etc.
Excess power generated is sold to and diverted into the National Grid.
In evening when no solar energy, shop buys back power from grid at national rate.
No batteries needed or involved.
In the four years it has been running its electric cost has been in profit.
Installation costs are the only outgoings, and will be paid off in 5 more years.
Given the amount of sun and daylight we get here in UK compared to Florida, I still maintain The Villages, and for that matter Florida are way behind the times and missing out on a source of energy that could lower costs dramatically.
Sometimes a little vision of the future, and what is down the road is needed.
Do I have it? No. Installation costs and upheaval involved in our present house would be prohibitive, but if I was building a new house, I wouldn't hesitate to install.
JMHO.

[golfing eagles]

I have been on several missions through our church. To say the USA is lagging behind is an understatement. I am amazed at what some countries have been able to achieve. Hopefully, we get our heads out of the sand soon.

Lagging behind WHAT? Jumping on the bandwagon of the largest scam in human history? Like Adolf said, the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

[Topspinmo]

Be careful what you wish for! With extreme heat comes drought and famine in some areas. Strong storms and flooding, in others. If every state made a few small changes, that would help. Example: Several western states are at a risk of running out of water. However, residents act like it is a scare tactic and use more. Water conservation is easy to implement. But, very few want to.

That’s cause too many people moved to desert where it don’t rain and have grass lawns, swimming pools, and grass golf courses. They are wasting water and over populated for area. Just like building on outer banks then wonder why get blown away by hurricanes.

[margaretmattson]

Lagging behind WHAT? Jumping on the bandwagon of the largest scam in human history? Like Adolf said, the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.Lagging behind on ADAPTING. You must admit, we have seen quite a bit of devastation due to hurricanes, extreme heat, drought and flooding.Is the cause man-made? Like you, I'm not sure. Is the theory of Global Warming true? Can/Will Mother Nature reverse the warming trend? Again, I'm not sure.

I go on missions for the here and now. To me, changing and adapting makes sense. Are you so certain that this devastating weather pattern will end in one year? Two? Three? How many? In the meantime, I believe it is wise to make plans and to place them in action.

The USA is not doing much. Is our country right? Are the other countries wasting their time and money? It is not a gamble I would like to make. If the devastating weather pattern continues, those who have not adapted will suffer the most.

[Two Bills]

I believe one of the issues with solar in Florida is the abundance of cheap electricity. This can result in a relatively long payback period for a solar installation. Also, the panels continue to drop in price so there is some incentive to wait.

Good point.Your electricity is very cheap anyway.
Here in UK electricity is expensive
We have loads of solar and wind farms, so someone must be making a profit from them
Farmers queue up to have them on their land, as they are well paid for the land used, and of course big Government subsidies (Tax payers money) are paid as well.
They reckon about 12 years for normal use domestic solar payback time in UK.

[Normal]

It cracks me up when alarmists scream the oceans are rising. Yes, they are rising and have been for the past 50,000 years. Ancient underwater cities used to all be above the water line. Yet, you hear them scream like there is something new or something can be done. They should rely more on evidence and science and less on political agendas.

[JRcorvette]

Global Warming is Hogwash….just another way to Control You and get Your Money!!!

[margaretmattson]

It cracks me up when alarmists scream the oceans are rising. Yes, they are rising and have been for the past 50,000 years. Ancient underwater cities used to all be above the water line. Yet, you hear them scream like there is something new or something can be done. They should rely more on evidence and science and less on political agendas.The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river.

Months later, the river is still at low levels. This is reducing the amount of grain and other crops that can be sent by barge. Many farmers have lost $25,000 to $50,000 this season due to this inability to ship their crops.

One slight variance in the planet, in this case high ocean water and low river water, can create economic disaster and even famine. Alarming situations, like my example, are occurring around the world. This is not humorous . Unless, you can survive without food and water. If you can, then laugh until your "extraordinary" belly aches.

[Normal]

The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river.

Months later, the river is still at low levels. This is reducing the amount of grain and other crops that can be sent by barge. Many farmers have lost $25,000 to $50,000 this season due to this inability to ship their crops.

One slight variance in the planet, in this case high ocean water and low river water, can create economic disaster and even famine. Alarming situations, like my example, are occurring around the world. This is not humorous . Unless, you can survive without food and water. If you can, then laugh until your "extraordinary" belly aches.

The world will change, what perhaps can be entertaining is watching man expel labor to control a planet that is still going to do as it wishes. Cities that have been under water for several millennia were never put there by mankind’s pollution. We cannot make the planet do as we wish. It will change constantly, the real question is can we adapt?

I personally am not entertained by someone’s misery. I just know what I see as out of our control. Can you change the Earth’s rotation speed? Can you make the Earth tilt more or less than its 28.5 degrees? Can you make it orbit closer or farther from the sun? All these events happen, but I don’t think you can control them.

[margaretmattson]

The world will change, what perhaps can be entertaining is watching man expel labor to control a planet that is still going to do as it wishes. Cities that have been under water for several millennia were never put there by mankind’s pollution. We cannot make the planet do as we wish. It will change constantly, the real question is can we adapt?

I personally am not entertained by someone’s misery. I just know what I see as out of our control. Can you change the Earth’s rotation speed? Can you make the Earth tilt more or less than its 28.5 degrees? Can you make it orbit closer or farther from the sun? All these events happen, but I don’t think you can control them.Completely agree. But, one has to deal with the here and now. Finding solutions is all anyone can do. Hopefully, this devastating weather pattern is temporary and we will see relief soon.

[mickey100]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

You clearly don't understand the concept of global warming. Global warming doesn't mean every winter is going to be warmer, or that certain areas won't have cold temperatures, it just means the RATE of climate change has increased due to human causes. There is a direct connection between what scientists have identified as global warming and catastrophic weather events, so we see many more events like record breaking floods and more frequent and intense storms. Obviously, the cost to society is in the billions.

[Randall55]

You clearly don't understand the concept of global warming. Global warming doesn't mean every winter is going to be warmer, or that certain areas won't have cold temperatures, it just means the RATE of climate change has increased due to human causes. There is a direct connection between what scientists have identified as global warming and catastrophic weather events, so we see many more events like record breaking floods and more frequent and intense storms. Obviously, the cost to society is in the billions.With Global Warming, Increased precipitation includes heavy snowfall. Over the past few months, many cities were flooded due to an abundance of rain. When I read Anchorage had EARLY RECORD BREAKING SNOWFALL, my questions were these:

Is the cause El Niño? Which would mean this is a MERELY a 2023/2024 phenomenon.

Are scientists shaking their heads in disbelief? Record amounts of precipitation AROUND THE WORLD seem to prove their theory of Global Warming is correct. Do they think it is going to get worse? Are we reaching the point of no return?

Why hasn't there been news coverage like the daily interest in summer's scorching heat? Followers of Global Warming would want ALL WEATHER EMERGENCIES to get equal coverage.

[bcsnave]

The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river.

Months later, the river is still at low levels. This is reducing the amount of grain and other crops that can be sent by barge. Many farmers have lost $25,000 to $50,000 this season due to this inability to ship their crops.

One slight variance in the planet, in this case high ocean water and low river water, can create economic disaster and even famine. Alarming situations, like my example, are occurring around the world. This is not humorous . Unless, you can survive without food and water. If you can, then laugh until your "extraordinary" belly aches.

Interesting, we have a place on Pool 8 of the Mississippi, it has been so high the COE had to open the flood gates many times this year. This is a pic of our boat landing that is underwater...LOW WATER ...I dont think so

[Bill14564]

Interesting, we have a place on Pool 8 of the Mississippi, it has been so high the COE had to open the flood gates many times this year. This is a pic of our boat landing that is underwater...LOW WATER ...I dont think so

Low flow in the lower Mississippi resulting in a saltwater wedge flowing upstream and affecting the water supply for New Orleans. Easy enough to Google.

Perhaps this high water will flow downstream and alleviate the problem.

[bcsnave]

Low flow in the lower Mississippi resulting in a saltwater wedge flowing upstream and affecting the water supply for New Orleans. Easy enough to Google.

Perhaps this high water will flow downstream and alleviate the problem.

Certainly easy to Google Mississippi River Flooding 2023

Mississippi River Flood of 2023 (https://www.weather.gov/arx/flood2023)

[Randall55]

Interesting, we have a place on Pool 8 of the Mississippi, it has been so high the COE had to open the flood gates many times this year. This is a pic of our boat landing that is underwater...LOW WATER ...I dont think soThe LOWER Mississippi is at extreme low levels. Flooding of the Upper Mississippi is also occurring.This is puzzling scientists.

[Bill14564]

Certainly easy to Google Mississippi River Flooding 2023

Mississippi River Flood of 2023 (https://www.weather.gov/arx/flood2023)

April and May in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa??? And somehow that is pertinent to saltwater incursion in Louisiana in October!

[JMintzer]

Low flow in the lower Mississippi resulting in a saltwater wedge flowing upstream and affecting the water supply for New Orleans. Easy enough to Google.

Perhaps this high water will flow downstream and alleviate the problem.

You mean this graph of the LOWER Mississippi (showing normal levels, as of today)?

Lower Mississippi River Stages (https://riverweather.com/riverstages/ms_lower/)

[Bill14564]

You mean this graph of the LOWER Mississippi (showing normal levels, as of today)?

Lower Mississippi River Stages (https://riverweather.com/riverstages/ms_lower/)

No, it is not about river levels.

Much of the Mississippi river bed in at least southern Louisiana is below sea level. If a dam was built above New Orleans and the river flow stopped, the water from the Gulf would flow northwards. The only thing holding the saltwater out of the Mississippi is the volume of water flowing down the river.

In the late September to early November timeframe, the flow in the river was insufficient to keep the saltwater out. It appears that even last week the saltwater wedge had pushed 63 miles up river (https://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/Missions/Engineering/Stage-and-Hydrologic-Data/SaltwaterWedge/SaltwaterWedgeNow/). It seems like the river is beginning to win this month. I haven't seen any articles more recent than mid-October so maybe the problem has abated for this year.

[JMintzer]

No, it is not about river levels.

Much of the Mississippi river bed in at least southern Louisiana is below sea level. If a dam was built above New Orleans and the river flow stopped, the water from the Gulf would flow northwards. The only thing holding the saltwater out of the Mississippi is the volume of water flowing down the river.

In the late September to early November timeframe, the flow in the river was insufficient to keep the saltwater out. It appears that even last week the saltwater wedge had pushed 63 miles up river (https://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/Missions/Engineering/Stage-and-Hydrologic-Data/SaltwaterWedge/SaltwaterWedgeNow/). It seems like the river is beginning to win this month. I haven't seen any articles more recent than mid-October so maybe the problem has abated for this year.

Not about river levels?

Then please explain this post that started this offshoot of the thread:

"The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river."

[Bill14564]

Not about river levels?

Then please explain this post that started this offshoot of the thread:

"The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river."

Google is your friend.

Shipping problems in the mid-Missippi above Louisiana. Salt intrusion in the lower Mississippi at and below New Orleans. Shipping issues due to low water level. Salt intrusion due to low flow. Perhaps the low levels in the middle section which affect shipping result in a low flow in the lower section that enables the salt intrusion.

[Randall55]

Not about river levels?

Then please explain this post that started this offshoot of the thread:

"The Mississippi River is at the lowest levels recorded. In July, The Army Corp of Engineers had to quickly devise a means to stop the salt water intrusion from the Gulf that could destroy the river."The Information is easy to find. Google: drought Mississippi River or historic low levels Mississippi River

The Mississippi is a long river, you can't pick an area then state. Nope! Not happening! Google what was stated.

[JMintzer]

Google is your friend.

Shipping problems in the mid-Missippi above Louisiana. Salt intrusion in the lower Mississippi at and below New Orleans. Shipping issues due to low water level. Salt intrusion due to low flow. Perhaps the low levels in the middle section which affect shipping result in a low flow in the lower section that enables the salt intrusion.

Then you should have responded to the person who claimed the river levels were low...

You know, the person to whom's claim I responded?

Oh, and I used Google to get my information, so I don't understand your need for the snarky "Google is your friend" response...

[Bill14564]

Then you should have responded to the person who claimed the river levels were low...

You know, the person to whom's claim I responded?

Oh, and I used Google to get my information, so I don't understand your need for the snarky "Google is your friend" response...

I'm confused (not the first time). You responded to my post and I answered you.

The Mississippi is very long and water levels can vary along its course. Reports from Memphis show a very shallow Mississippi. Obviously, the river where it meets the Gulf is not going to be low, the saltwater will flow upstream instead and lead to problems with New Orleans drinking water.

I used a search engine to learn about the varied river levels, the shipping issues, and the salt intrusion. As you did not have the same information, my assumption was you had not looked. Since you *have* looked but still did not see the same reports I don't know what else to suggest.

[JMintzer]

I'm confused (not the first time). You responded to my post and I answered you.

The Mississippi is very long and water levels can vary along its course. Reports from Memphis show a very shallow Mississippi. Obviously, the river where it meets the Gulf is not going to be low, the saltwater will flow upstream instead and lead to problems with New Orleans drinking water.

I used a search engine to learn about the varied river levels, the shipping issues, and the salt intrusion. As you did not have the same information, my assumption was you had not looked. Since you *have* looked but still did not see the same reports I don't know what else to suggest.

Yes, you are confused...

You initially commented that the "Upper" river levels had no bearing on New Orleans...

Hence, I responded that the "Lower" river levels were normal as of November 19th...

Then, you pivoted to say it's not about "River Levels", but "Water Flow"...

So, your confusion is causing more confusion, since it's hard to figure out what you're actually arguing about.

[Bill14564]

Yes, you are confused...

You initially commented that the "Upper" river levels had no bearing on New Orleans...

Hence, I responded that the "Lower" river levels were normal as of November 19th...

Then, you pivoted to say it's not about "River Levels", but "Water Flow"...

So, your confusion is causing more confusion, since it's hard to figure out what you're actually arguing about.

Then let me try to clear it up…

The flooding was in the April/May timeframe up in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is hard to imagine how a flooding event six months ago is affecting an area today, thousands of miles away.

Water levels do appear to be low in the Tennessee area which is affecting shipping. I did not see the location of the satay collected to generate the graph showing water levels in the lower Mississippi were normal. All I can assume is the satay was NOT collected near Tennessee.

The water levels in the New Orleans area are not lower than normal and they likely never are. The level of the Gulf controls those levels and I haven’t seen any reports that the Gulf is lower.

However, with lower water levels upstream, the volume of water flow is diminished which allows the Gulf to push up the river towards New Orleans. Recently, this salt incursion was found to be 63 miles upstream, close to New Orleans. This salt incursion is affecting the fresh water supply in the area.

It is a very long river. Different areas of the river are affected in different ways by the same drought conditions. Yes, there was Spring flooding in the far north but apparently that flooding six months ago was not enough to keep the river level high or the flow rate up today.

[JMintzer]

Then let me try to clear it up…

The flooding was in the April/May timeframe up in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is hard to imagine how a flooding event six months ago is affecting an area today, thousands of miles away.

Water levels do appear to be low in the Tennessee area which is affecting shipping. I did not see the location of the satay collected to generate the graph showing water levels in the lower Mississippi were normal. All I can assume is the satay was NOT collected near Tennessee.

The water levels in the New Orleans area are not lower than normal and they likely never are. The level of the Gulf controls those levels and I haven’t seen any reports that the Gulf is lower.

However, with lower water levels upstream, the volume of water flow is diminished which allows the Gulf to push up the river towards New Orleans. Recently, this salt incursion was found to be 63 miles upstream, close to New Orleans. This salt incursion is affecting the fresh water supply in the area.

It is a very long river. Different areas of the river are affected in different ways by the same drought conditions. Yes, there was Spring flooding in the far north but apparently that flooding six months ago was not enough to keep the river level high or the flow rate up today.

But there is flooding/high water levels upstream, even. now... That would cause an increased water flow, no?

And the chart I gave the link to included Memphis, and it stated the water levels were normal. T=hat would lead one to beleieve the "water flow" was normal, as well...

[Bill14564]

But there is flooding/high water levels upstream, even. now... That would cause an increased water flow, no?

And the chart I gave the link to included Memphis, and it stated the water levels were normal. T=hat would lead one to beleieve the "water flow" was normal, as well...

Then I guess those reading the water levels in Memphis (https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?gage=memt1&wfo=meg) and observing the shipping problems last month were letting their lying eyes deceive them. I’m not planning to make a trip to Tenn. to see for myself.

NOAA also shows no current flooding in parts of Illinois and Missouri (https://www.weather.gov/lsx/MS_River_Points).

If there is flooding upstream then eventually the water will make its way downstream. The page I found earlier measuring the salt incursion showed it had moved two miles south in the last week. So yeah, things may be changing.

[Randall55]

Then I guess those reading the water levels in Memphis (https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?gage=memt1&wfo=meg) and observing the shipping problems last month were letting their lying eyes deceive them. I’m not planning to make a trip to Tenn. to see for myself.

NOAA also shows no current flooding in parts of Illinois and Missouri (https://www.weather.gov/lsx/MS_River_Points).

If there is flooding upstream then eventually the water will make its way downstream. The page I found earlier measuring the salt incursion showed it had moved two miles south in the last week. So yeah, things may be changing.The upper part of the river is controlled by locks and dams.The lower part of the river is not. An update, written 4 days ago, states prolonged drought has caused shipping problems because the river is narrow and shallow. I googled the words Mississippi River Drought since this is what is being questioned. From what I read and saw on videos, the Mississippi is at historic low levels.

I would assume if they opened the dams, there is not enough water to fill the river. This would cause complications along the entire river. The puzzling question for scientists is which will win? The upward flow of the ocean or the downward flow of the river.

[Byte1]

Maybe we can contract the Chinese to fix the river. After all, they widened the Panama canal not too long ago. Man may not be able to train the weather but man can fix the side effects of weather. Probably cheaper than the fools errand of attempting to control the weather. ;) :popcorn:

[JMintzer]

Then I guess those reading the water levels in Memphis (https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?gage=memt1&wfo=meg) and observing the shipping problems last month were letting their lying eyes deceive them. I’m not planning to make a trip to Tenn. to see for myself.

NOAA also shows no current flooding in parts of Illinois and Missouri (https://www.weather.gov/lsx/MS_River_Points).

If there is flooding upstream then eventually the water will make its way downstream. The page I found earlier measuring the salt incursion showed it had moved two miles south in the last week. So yeah, things may be changing.

Then I guess the link I posted, dated 11/19, showing normal river levels, was wrong as well...

[Bill14564]

Then I guess the link I posted, dated 11/19, showing normal river levels, was wrong as well...

Perhaps not wrong, just misleading.

Note that every line says either Normal or Not Defined but with no definition of what Normal means.

Every line also shows no flooding.

Some measurements for height in the northern section are 600+ feet. How can the river be running at 600ft above its typical level without that being a flood level?

Note that the Memphis height is -9ft which matches the NOAA chart.

To me, "Normal" is not informative. The heights *might* be useful but the 600+ measurements call those into question as well.

[JMintzer]

Perhaps not wrong, just misleading.

Note that every line says either Normal or Not Defined but with no definition of what Normal means.

Every line also shows no flooding.

Some measurements for height in the northern section are 600+ feet. How can the river be running at 600ft above its typical level without that being a flood level?

Note that the Memphis height is -9ft which matches the NOAA chart.

To me, "Normal" is not informative. The heights *might* be useful but the 600+ measurements call those into question as well.

But your link is accurate and not misleading? If you say so...

[Bill14564]

But your link is accurate and not misleading? If you say so...

Point out the inconsistencies in the NOAA data if you don't trust it.

Heck, I pointed out that where the two data sets can be easily compared, they match. They both show the river 9 feet below normal in Memphis. They both say there is no flooding along the river.

Are you really arguing that the river is over 600 feet above typical at several points but that is not a flood level and is just Normal?

[Lottoguy]

Has not been called GLOBAL WARMING in almost ten years now. CLIMATE CHANGE is the wording now. It's easy to tell where you fall on this by using such a old outdated phrase.

[Topspinmo]

Global warming affects ALL the seasons. We should learn more about the scientific and proven effects of it instead of dismissing it



I think you’re confused between global warming and climate changes.

[Topspinmo]

Contrails?
Think you need to read up on how modern day solar panels work.


So when sun don’t shine why does my solar light in back yard go dime or won’t come at night when day was cloudy???

[Normal]

Has not been called GLOBAL WARMING in almost ten years now. CLIMATE CHANGE is the wording now. It's easy to tell where you fall on this by using such a old outdated phrase.

Yes, the term was changed so it fit the best look to still collect funds for politicians and scientists. Global warming wasn’t working out well. Climate change has more support because the term encompasses more ideas.

[margaretmattson]

Yes, the term was changed so it fit the best look to still collect funds for politicians and scientists. Global warming wasn’t working out well. Climate change has more support because the term encompasses more ideas.Climate change encompasses global warming. They are two different things. One is not a substitute for the other.

Global Warming: the warming of the planet (self explanatory) usually due to the greenhouse effect.

Climate Change: change in the weather over a long period of time (Again, self explanatory)

If you are talking about this year, which had record breaking, scorching heat, the cause is most likely global warming. It may sound counterintuitive but global warming includes snowstorms.

Climate change is change in weather for an extended period of time. You can say because of the same conditions happening in certain areas over the last few years, there has been a change in climate.

[JMintzer]

Has not been called GLOBAL WARMING in almost ten years now. CLIMATE CHANGE is the wording now. It's easy to tell where you fall on this by using such a old outdated phrase.

Yes, changing the name really means so much...

[biker1]

Not exactly.

Climate change: the change in the climate due to natural and anthropogenic causes.

Climate change encompasses global warming. They are two different things. One is not a substitute for the other.

Global Warming: the warming of the planet (self explanatory) usually due to the greenhouse effect.

Climate Change: change in the weather over a long period of time (Again, self explanatory)

If you are talking about this year, which had record breaking, scorching heat, the cause is most likely global warming. It may sound counterintuitive but global warming includes snowstorms.

Climate change is change in weather for an extended period of time. You can say because of the same conditions happening in certain areas over the last few years, there has been a change in climate.

[margaretmattson]

Not exactly.

Climate change: the change in the climate due to natural and anthropogenic causes.Exactly! Completely different than the warming of the earth due to the greenhouse effect, isn't it? Which is the definition of global warming. Global Warming aids in Climate Change. It doesn't matter if you believe in global warming. They are still two DIFFERENT things.

[Two Bills]

So when sun don’t shine why does my solar light in back yard go dime or won’t come at night when day was cloudy???

Cloud and contrails are not the same.
Modern solar panels work on light.
Sunny will give best power output.
Cloudy lower power output, but still work.
Solar panels work in UK, and we have a public holiday if sun shines!

As for cheap Chinese garden lights, it's a wonder they work at all.:shrug:

[MorTech]

A physical gas has no "greenhouse" properties...Cuz it's a gas.
Where do people get this crap? Their Idiot Box? Study Physics!

[margaretmattson]

A physical gas has no "greenhouse" properties...Cuz it's a gas.
Where do people get this crap? Their Idiot Box? Study Physics!I guess scientists all over the world go to their idiot box because they have nothing better to do.

[MorTech]

The political psychopaths are test-driving their latest climate scam in the Netherlands - Nitrogen as a "Greenhouse Gas" - in order to end fertilizer production and close farms. I don't think the Dutch people are that stupid.

[MorTech]

I guess scientists all over the world go to their idiot box because they have nothing better to do.

Which ones? Can you at least try to be more specific/scientific?

[margaretmattson]

Which ones? Can you at least try to be more specific/scientific?I do not have to be specific. Look up the term greenhouse effect and educate yourself. With or without humans burning fossil fuels, the effect exists- Science 101. Without it, earth would be frozen.

Gases in our atmosphere trap the radiation of the sun. This is called the green house effect. This effect makes the earth warm and liveable. Humans burning fuels send more gases into the atmosphere. More gases in the atmosphere results in a warmer earth. Scientists believe human interference is causing global warming.

[asianthree]

For those who should really experience what one is posting. There are a number of volunteer groups who travel to the glaciers every summer, to assist with testing. You spend 2 months traveling by foot, with pull sleds, (no dogs), so not to do harm.

One must be able to carry your backpack, experiencing the wonders of what this post is truly about. Age isn’t a factor, with some in their late 80s. Has to be more fun than googling.

[biker1]

No. CO2 absorbs strongly in the 15 micrometer window (and therefore absorbs terrestrial radiation). It is transparent to other portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. The net result is the lower troposphere warms and the stratosphere cools with increasing CO2 levels. Manabe published a paper about the impact in the 70’s but the effect has been realized for a much longer period of time. I have omitted many of the radiative transfer details that cause this effect because it is inappropriate for this forum (i.e. a discussion of the radiative transfer details will cause most people’s eyes to glaze over and I have learned with time not to bore people with technical details). To suggest that increasing CO2 does not have an impact on temperatures is really silly. Discussions about the magnitude of the impact to date, the impact in the future, whether it is really a problem, and what can be done if it is really a problem is more appropriate.


A physical gas has no "greenhouse" properties...Cuz it's a gas.
Where do people get this crap? Their Idiot Box? Study Physics!

[Byte1]

Cloud and contrails are not the same.
Modern solar panels work on light.
Sunny will give best power output.
Cloudy lower power output, but still work.
Solar panels work in UK, and we have a public holiday if sun shines!

As for cheap Chinese garden lights, it's a wonder they work at all.:shrug:

Where do you think the solar panels come from that are on homes today?

[Two Bills]

Where do you think the solar panels come from what are on homes today?

Same place, but they ain't cheap, and they are built to the tech/spec we have stupidly given away in pursuit of cheap labor and higher profit.

[Topspinmo]

Low flow in the lower Mississippi resulting in a saltwater wedge flowing upstream and affecting the water supply for New Orleans. Easy enough to Google.

Perhaps this high water will flow downstream and alleviate the problem.


That’s because New Orleans below sea level.

[fdpaq0580]

That’s because New Orleans below sea level.

Past time to make sure the dikes are in good shape or New Orleans is gonna be in deep sh ..... Too late!

[eyc234]

That’s because New Orleans below sea level.

:faint: Above or below sea level does not matter how the water is moving up the river. New Orleans could be 1000 feet above sea level and the low flow of the water would still allow ocean water to come up the river if the flow is low enough.

[fdpaq0580]

:faint: Above or below sea level does not matter how the water is moving up the river. New Orleans could be 1000 feet above sea level and the low flow of the water would still allow ocean water to come up the river if the flow is low enough.

???

[sounding]

Not exactly.

Climate change: the change in the climate due to natural and anthropogenic causes.

What anthropogenic cause?

[fdpaq0580]

What anthropogenic cause?

OMG! Not again with the wilful ignorance of reality.

[sounding]

OMG! Not again with the wilful ignorance of reality.

Let's talk about reality. How much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth last year?

[fdpaq0580]

Let's talk about reality. How much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth last year?

Let's not waste "our" time with rehashing all that has gone before in this and other threads. Let the REAL scientists deal with it and you won't have to worry about it.

Have a Joyous Holiday Season!

[sounding]

Let's not waste "our" time with rehashing all that has gone before in this and other threads. Let the REAL scientists deal with it and you won't have to worry about it.

Have a Joyous Holiday Season!

Another words, no one knows, so there is no "proof" man-made CO2 causes anything except a green planet.

[Keefelane66]

Let's not waste "our" time with rehashing all that has gone before in this and other threads. Let the REAL scientists deal with it and you won't have to worry about it.

Have a Joyous Holiday Season!
It's Johns hobby let him ramble on.

[fdpaq0580]

It's Johns hobby let him ramble on.

LOL! I only know most on here by their post names. I used to have a great friend that I argued with about all sorts of things. Great mental exercise and great fun when the drinks were flowing. No minds were changed and no one was injured (physically or emotionally). I really miss him.

Enjoy the Holiday Season!

[margaretmattson]

Another words, no one knows, so there is no "proof" man-made CO2 causes anything except a green planet.NASA has launched a spectrometer into space to measure manmade CO2 and methane emissions. The proof you are seeking will soon be available.

[sounding]

NASA has launched a spectrometer into space to measure manmade CO2 and methane emissions. The proof you are seeking will soon be available.

I hope it's a lot, since we are in a CO2 famine.

[Byte1]

Let's not waste "our" time with rehashing all that has gone before in this and other threads. Let the REAL scientists deal with it and you won't have to worry about it.

Have a Joyous Holiday Season!

What are "real scientists?" What are the REQUIREMENTS for being a scientist? Apparently, everyone that studies, researches, experiments, etc is considered a scientist.

M-Webster:
"A scientist is a person who studies science and especially natural science."

Where do stats come from? Are they scientific guesses, or are they actual measurements and facts? If someone shows proof of scientific measurement stats over a period of time, do they have to be approved by a ""scientist"" in order to be consider relevant?

"Well, scientist say....blah, blah, blah..."

Just saying....:ho:

[Decadeofdave]

We had the coolest summer up north in 8 years. Two 90 degree days all summer. Normally 10 to 15. I will admit, when it wasn't raining it was pretty nice.

[biker1]

Get a clue dude, your embarrassing yourself, again.

What anthropogenic cause?

[biker1]

Subscribe to the AMS Journal of Climate, a peer reviewed journal. Read AR6, the summaries are sufficient. Ignore politicians, talking heads, and anyone, particularly a few clueless individuals who post here, who takes an extreme positions such as the world will end soon or there isn't any anthropogenic warming.

What are "real scientists?" What are the REQUIREMENTS for being a scientist? Apparently, everyone that studies, researches, experiments, etc is considered a scientist.

M-Webster:
"A scientist is a person who studies science and especially natural science."

Where do stats come from? Are they scientific guesses, or are they actual measurements and facts? If someone shows proof of scientific measurement stats over a period of time, do they have to be approved by a ""scientist"" in order to be consider relevant?

"Well, scientist say....blah, blah, blah..."

Just saying....:ho:

[sounding]

Subscribe to the AMS Journal of Climate, a peer reviewed journal. Read AR6, the summaries are sufficient. Ignore politicians, talking heads, and anyone those who takes an extreme positions such as the world will end soon and there isn't any anthropogenic warming.

Legitimate climate peer-review is a myth following climategate.

[biker1]

Exactly how many peer reviewed papers do you have in AMS Journals?

Legitimate climate peer-review is a myth following climategate.

[mtdjed]

It's early in the season, but Anchorage Alaska has already seen record breaking amounts of snowfall. Some areas, surrounding the city, accumulated two feet within two days. A snow emergency has been declared. Is El Niño the cause? Do you think the scientists who support the theory of global warming are staring at their monitors in disbelief? Strange thing, I did not see this reported on the news as often as this summer's record breaking heat. Any thoughts on why?

Here we go again! It's colder today therefore, global warming is defunct. It's hotter today, therefore it proves global warming, Get ready for all of the village experts and another barrage of waisted time.

[sounding]

Here we go again! It's colder today therefore, global warming is defunct. It's hotter today, therefore it proves global warming, Get ready for all of the village experts and another barrage of waisted time.

Ok, stop wasting time ... how much did man-made CO2 warm the earth last year?

[margaretmattson]

Here we go again! It's colder today therefore, global warming is defunct. It's hotter today, therefore it proves global warming, Get ready for all of the village experts and another barrage of waisted time.OP stated nothing about cold weather. Increased precipitation is a result of global warming. This includes an abundance of snow fall.

[biker1]

Not exactly. The impact of warmer lower tropospheric temperatures is increased precipitation in some areas and decreased precipitation in other areas. With warmer temperatures, you will realize increased evaporation. This will increase the amount of water in the atmosphere (and available to rain out) but also increase drying in other areas. So far, anthropogenic warming has been mild; estimated at about 1C for the global surface temperature anomaly. Projected anthropogenic warming increases over the rest of the century will likely cause increased variability in precipitation.

OP stated nothing about cold weather. Increased precipitation is a result of global warming. This includes an abundance of snow fall.

[sounding]

Not exactly. The impact of warmer lower tropospheric temperatures is increased precipitation in some areas and decreased precipitation in other areas. With warmer temperatures, you will realize increased evaporation. This will increase the amount of water in the atmosphere (and available to rain out) but also increase drying in other areas. So far, anthropogenic warming has been mild; estimated at about 1C for the global surface temperature anomaly. Projected anthropogenic warming increases over the rest of the century will likely cause increased variability in precipitation.

"1C" warming via man-made CO2 is not a fact ... but we do know that we are still thawing out from the Little Ice Age regardless of what we do.

[fdpaq0580]

One thing is certain, there is a lot of hot air being created by this debate.

[biker1]

Your lack of understanding is remarkable. There has been some natural warming because we are in an interglacial period. We know there has been anthropogenic warming because of our understanding of radiative transfer physics and analysis of real data. The signature is quite clear from observations of stratospheric cooling and lower tropospheric warming, that matches Manabe's theory from 45 years ago. As I stated, the best estimate of anthropogenic warming is about 1C. The fact that you don't believe it is inconsequential. You may wish to actually try reading the AR6 instead of pulling up some graphic from 30 years ago that actually has nothing to do with anthropogenic warming.


"1C" warming via man-made CO2 is not a fact ... but we do know that we are still thawing out from the Little Ice Age regardless of what we do.

[fdpaq0580]

Your lack of understanding is remarkable. There has been some warming because we are in an interglacial period. We know there has been anthropogenic warming because of our understanding of radiative transfer physics. As I stated, the best estimate of anthropogenic warming is about 1C. The fact that you don't believe it is inconsequential.

Between you and me, I think he knows but just likes to argue.

[sounding]

Your lack of understanding is remarkable. There has been some natural warming because we are in an interglacial period. We know there has been anthropogenic warming because of our understanding of radiative transfer physics and analysis of real data. The signature is quite clear from observations of stratospheric cooling and lower tropospheric warming, that matches Manabe's theory from 45 years ago. As I stated, the best estimate of anthropogenic warming is about 1C. The fact that you don't believe it is inconsequential. You may wish to actually try reading the AR6 instead of pulling up some graphic from 30 years ago that actually has nothing to do with anthropogenic warming.

You can claim to be a wizard, or man created the 1C change ... but without proof you only have wishful thinking. CO2 is not a control knob - as history clearly shows.

[biker1]

Feel free to continue your membership in the Flat Earth Society. Still waiting to hear how many peer reviewed AMS journal papers you have published. By the way, I can always tell when someone can't support their argument. They resort to strawman arguments and then say "you can't prove it". In reality, few things are actually provable. For example, F=MA cannot be proven. There is a large body of data to suggest that it is essentially correct. The same thing applies to the Navier-Stokes equations. $1M awaits anyone who can prove a solution exists. Regardless, the N-S equations have been shown to be accurate for a variety of applications. The body of evidence supporting anthropogenic warming is large and has withstood critical examination.

You can claim to be a wizard, or man created the 1C change ... but without proof you only have wishful thinking. CO2 is not a control knob - as history clearly shows.

[Dusty_Star]

Also when the temperature drops below 0°F for a few days in a row, you'll rarely see snow. In Alaska, it's pretty common to have 0-degree temps this time of year. The fact that it's snowing in record amounts means - it is WARM enough to snow, when normally it would not be.



"Can it be too cold to snow? It can snow when it’s very cold. As a matter of fact, snow can fall even in the coldest places on Earth, such as Antarctica, where temperatures are well below zero."

-EarthSky.org

[biker1]

The reason you don't often see snow with cold temperatures is because the cold temperatures are often associated with the subsidence behind a low pressure system - that is where the cold air is typically. However, low pressure systems, which create rising motion ahead of where they are tracking, can and do exist in what you consider to be cold air. For snow, you need rising motion, some moisture, and cold enough temperatures. The amount of moisture that the air can hold is exponentially related to temperature so warmer air has greater potential for higher snow amounts. However, low pressure centers can create a large amount of moisture convergence even with what you would consider to be low temperatures.


Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
Also when the temperature drops below 0°F for a few days in a row, you'll rarely see snow. In Alaska, it's pretty common to have 0-degree temps this time of year. The fact that it's snowing in record amounts means - it is WARM enough to snow, when normally it would not be.





"Can it be too cold to snow? It can snow when it’s very cold. As a matter of fact, snow can fall even in the coldest places on Earth, such as Antarctica, where temperatures are well below zero."

-EarthSky.org

[sounding]

Feel free to continue your membership in the Flat Earth Society. Still waiting to hear how many peer reviewed AMS journal papers you have published. By the way, I can always tell when someone can't support their argument. They resort to strawman arguments and then say "you can't prove it". In reality, few things are actually provable. For example, F=MA cannot be proven. There is a large body of data to suggest that it is essentially correct. The same thing applies to the Navier-Stokes equations. $1M awaits anyone who can prove a solution exists. Regardless, the N-S equations have been shown to be accurate for a variety of applications. The body of evidence supporting anthropogenic warming is large and has withstood critical examination.

Then show the body of evidence ... peer-reviewed proof of how much man-made CO2 warmed the earth last year.

[biker1]

Since you aren't a scientist, apparently have never published any papers, and appear to suffer from confirmation bias, I guess we can't expect you to understand much about the science or the peer review process. Short term (high wavenumber temporal fluctuations) variations aren't really worth looking at since they are implicit in the climate system. Longer term trends are what should be looked at. The anthropogenic warming of 1C is over decades. Roy Spencer has a 40 year satellite database. You know the one. You cherry picked a short period of his data and never referenced him. Very bad form and scientifically dishonest. Also, nothing goes through the peer review process very quickly - I know from experience. Regardless, read AR6. There are plenty of references in there. It sound like you have a reading comprehension problem as I never said there was any peer reviewed articles about last year. Strawman arguments are always weak and disingenuous.

Then show the body of evidence ... peer-reviewed proof of how much man-made CO2 warmed the earth last year.

[sounding]

Since you aren't a scientist, apparently have never published any papers, and appear to suffer from confirmation bias, I guess we can't expect you to understand much about the science or the peer review process. Short term (high wavenumber temporal fluctuations) variations aren't really worth looking at since they are implicit in the climate system. Longer term trends are what should be looked at. The anthropogenic warming of 1C is over decades. Also, nothing goes through the peer review process very quickly - I know from experience. Regardless, read AR6. There are plenty of references in there. It sound like you have a reading comprehension problem as I never said there was any peer reviewed articles about last year. Strawman arguments are always weak and disingenuous.

I'm not a scientist and especially not an expert. I'm just a data analyst. Scientists and experts are often self-anointed and problematic -- like Michael Mann. Remember ... Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.

[biker1]

You can claim you are a data analyst but you aren't very good at it. You cherry picked 7 years out of Roy Spencer's 40+ year satellite dataset (which has a lot of short term variations) and picked a high starting point to try to make a strawman argument. This is very bad behavior and would get you laughed at in a scientific forum. A data analyst might have run an FFT over the data to start with to understand the trend. Since you admit you don't know the science, why don't you stop making false claims about a subject you clearly don't understand?

I'm not a scientist and especially not an expert. I'm just a data analyst. Scientists and experts are often self-anointed and problematic -- like Michael Mann. Remember ... Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.

[Bill14564]

You can claim you are a data analyst but you aren't very good at it. You cherry picked 7 years out of Roy Spencer's 40+ year satellite dataset (which has a lot of short term variations) and picked a high starting point to try to make a strawman argument. This is very bad behavior and would get you laughed at in a scientific forum. A data analyst might have run an FFT over the data to start with to understand the trend. Since you admit you don't know the science, why don't you stop making false claims about a subject you clearly don't understand?

Thank you

[sounding]

You can claim you are a data analyst but you aren't very good at it. You cherry picked 7 years out of Roy Spencer's 40+ year satellite dataset (which has a lot of short term variations) and picked a high starting point to try to make a strawman argument. This is very bad behavior and would get you laughed at in a scientific forum. A data analyst might have run an FFT over the data to start with to understand the trend. Since you admit you don't know the science, why don't you stop making false claims about a subject you clearly don't understand?

How much did man-made CO2 warm the earth last year? Show me the data - cherries and all.

[biker1]

I believe you have a reading comprehension problem. Did you miss the part about longer term trends because the data is noisy? Do you not understand anything about data analysis? Read AR6 and then come back. Until then, feel free to carry on with someone from your Flat Earth Society.

How much did man-made CO2 warm the earth last year? Show me the data - cherries and all.

[tophcfa]

Latest news, Travel chaos as snowfall blankets Europe, Munich airport brought to standstill, Private jets headed to global warming conference frozen on runway.

[sounding]

I believe you have a reading comprehension problem. Did you miss the part about longer term trends because the data is noisy? Do you not understand anything about data analysis? Read AR6 and then come back. Until then, feel free to carry on with someone from your Flat Earth Society.

Just as I thought. The answer does not exist. There is no peer-reviewed proof that man-made CO2 has warmed earth. Note that during the China Flu shut-down, the rise of CO2 did not flinch - it just kept rising ... quite embarrassing to the global warming movement.

[sounding]

Latest news, Travel chaos as snowfall blankets Europe, Munich airport brought to standstill, Private jets headed to global warming conference frozen on runway.

Aircraft are having trouble flying through global warming.

[fdpaq0580]

Aircraft are having trouble flying through global warming.

Sometimes you give me a genuine laugh.