EV Solves Range Problem

[mtdjed]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

[Ecuadog]

...

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Starts to sound like a Range-Extender Electric Vehicle (REEV).

[Keefelane66]

My Toyota 2022 hybrid gets 67 mpg highway on 11.4 gallon tank we get 660 miles on tank b4 we fill up needle not on E. Could probably make it to over 700 miles b4 fill up.

[ThirdOfFive]

Interesting. I had a dream the other night about realistic human-powered flight. One of those feather-light glider jobs with cellophane wings. You spend the first three hours on the ground pedaling like mad to charge a small battery, then with a combination of pedal power and battery you have enough oomph to get the thing to a realistic altitude (say 500'), switch to glider mode hopefully in an area with thermals, then pedal like crazy to charge the battery while hopefully the thermals keep you in the sky. Human powered! Of course the human in question would have to be a Lance Armstrong...

On a more realistic note though--what about Stirling engines as a charging backup for your mythical EV? They don't need fossil fuels, merely a heat source to operate, and that can be anything. They've been around for 200 years but they've remained more a curiosity (though they were used to run pumps in mines at one time).

[Bay Kid]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Such a shame. Closing down the oil fields will not stop global warming. Maybe stopping the controlled burning would help? Maybe more money? Maybe solar panels covering our corn fields? Maybe windmills full of oil over our waters will help, until they leak?

[Toymeister]

Lucky you OP your dream was answered by Toyota with last year's model year!

It's called the Prius Prime version of the Prius. the plug in version. Not only is it electric It's gasoline and it has a generator powered by gasoline to charge the battery. And it's zero to sixty is quite respectable.

And Toyota offers other plug in models including a SUV, which do the same.

[metalic]

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

It is a hybrid
It is not complicated
It is reality, not a dream

[djlnc]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Think of the range you could get if you hauled a small trailer with a couple hundred gallons of gas to keep those batteries charged!

[Caymus]

Interesting. I had a dream the other night about realistic human-powered flight. One of those feather-light glider jobs with cellophane wings. You spend the first three hours on the ground pedaling like mad to charge a small battery, then with a combination of pedal power and battery you have enough oomph to get the thing to a realistic altitude (say 500'), switch to glider mode hopefully in an area with thermals, then pedal like crazy to charge the battery while hopefully the thermals keep you in the sky. Human powered! Of course the human in question would have to be a Lance Armstrong...

On a more realistic note though--what about Stirling engines as a charging backup for your mythical EV? They don't need fossil fuels, merely a heat source to operate, and that can be anything. They've been around for 200 years but they've remained more a curiosity (though they were used to run pumps in mines at one time).

Why not try a giant rubber band? :angel:

[JRcorvette]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

NEWS FLASH
Global Warming does not exist and that’s a fact. Cars going to EV will not change anything at all as the modern cars do not even pollute very much.

[Topspinmo]

I had dream I could fly. And my villages bushes was money trees. :MOJE_whot: then nightmare set in, my district robbed me with 25% increase maintenance fee and my wings was clipped.

[rustyp]

I had a dream in northern NY at 0 degrees I could turn the heat on in my electric car. The dream continues that I make it to work before the geeks occupied all the spots at the charging station. We now have a new perk at work. Confidential employees get a reserved charging station spot in lieu of stock options. Non union lower level employees have the option of a 401K matching plan or parking in the high priority charging station parking lot. Unionized employees can surrender their low deductible health insurance for a chance to secure a charging spot via a lottery system.

[n8xwb]

Maybe not a dream...sounds like the 2025 RAM Ramcharger EV! Also good to know it uses same technology as my 2018 Chevy Volt! The Volt has 400 mile range, 8.9 gal. tank and 50-60 mile all electric range -- perfect car for The Villages, I might add!

[tophcfa]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

I keep having this recurring dream that I’m a scratch golfer. Then I wake up, go golfing, and shoot in the mid 80’s, never anywhere near even par. The moral of the story is anything can happen in a dream, reality or not! Dream on my friend.

[metalic]

NEWS FLASH
Global Warming does not exist and that’s a fact.

Thank you for clarifying

I was listening to the 97% of scientists who accept climate change as fact, rather than the 3% in the pay of Big Oil - silly old me!

Looking forward to your future revelation that smoking is good for you

[Two Bills]

Son in laws Volvo does same. Just a hybrid car.

[VApeople]

I had a dream

I had a better dream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQEve-69r6I

[jebartle]

[QUOTE=mtdjed;2275784]I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated

We can only dream, BUT I'm sure the "Steve Jobs" out there will make it happen!

[JMintzer]

Thank you for clarifying

I was listening to the 97% of scientists who accept climate change as fact, rather than the 3% in the pay of Big Oil - silly old me!

Looking forward to your future revelation that smoking is good for you

"97%" is the new "FOX News"... Everybody drink!

[djlnc]

I was listening to the 97% of scientists who accept climate change as fact, rather than the 3% in the pay of Big Oil - silly old me!



The 97% figure has been put out there so often that people accept it as gospel. If you do some research into the origin of that number, you'll see it's not true. The percentage is high, but not 97%.

[mtdjed]

Maybe not a dream...sounds like the 2025 RAM Ramcharger EV! Also good to know it uses same technology as my 2018 Chevy Volt! The Volt has 400 mile range, 8.9 gal. tank and 50-60 mile all electric range -- perfect car for The Villages, I might add!

Oh, maybe I didn't have a dream, and perhaps read that story in the Daily Sun.

[CFrance]

Starts to sound like a Range-Extender Electric Vehicle (REEV).
Who are you now, Ecuadog? I don't recognize her.

[Ecuadog]

Who are you now, Ecuadog? I don't recognize her.

Today, my avatar is Della Reese.

[coralway]

I had a dream the other night as well. In my dream my Giants finally draft a half decent quarterback.

[metalic]

The 97% figure has been put out there so often that people accept it as gospel. If you do some research into the origin of that number, you'll see it's not true. The percentage is high, but not 97%.

I suspect that the "research" you are referring to is the Forbes article in 2016.

In the seven years since that came out there has been a lot more evidence of climate change, and many scientists who were undecided back then have subsequently been persuaded.

Obviously no-one knows the exact figure, so I'm happy to go with "the vast majority".

Maybe Forbes should look into why so many people in The Villages continue to side with the tiny minority. I suspect those people just don't want to change their profligate ways. Maybe they should just change their TV channel and see what thinking people are saying.

[Keefelane66]

I suspect that the "research" you are referring to is the Forbes article in 2016.

In the seven years since that came out there has been a lot more evidence of climate change, and many scientists who were undecided back then have subsequently been persuaded.

Obviously no-one knows the exact figure, so I'm happy to go with "the vast majority".

Maybe Forbes should look into why so many people in The Villages continue to side with the tiny minority. I suspect those people just don't want to change their profligate ways. Maybe they should just change their TV channel and see what thinking people are saying.
I agree

[biker1]

No, the original number came from a survey paper by John Cook. The number has been misused countless times. Anyone who uses that number should really read the paper. After reading the paper, they won't use that number anymore.

I suspect that the "research" you are referring to is the Forbes article in 2016.

In the seven years since that came out there has been a lot more evidence of climate change, and many scientists who were undecided back then have subsequently been persuaded.

Obviously no-one knows the exact figure, so I'm happy to go with "the vast majority".

Maybe Forbes should look into why so many people in The Villages continue to side with the tiny minority. I suspect those people just don't want to change their profligate ways. Maybe they should just change their TV channel and see what thinking people are saying.

[mtdjed]

No, the original number came from a survey paper by John Cook. The number has been misused countless times. Anyone who uses that number should really read the paper. After reading the paper, they won't use that number anymore.

No matter what the topic, it reverts to the same old Global issue. I tried a little satire regarding a RamCharger to be staying a pure EV by simply adding a petro powered battery charger. That charger probably used more gas for the battery charges than my car uses to run on gas alone.

[tophcfa]

I had a dream the other night as well. In my dream my Giants finally draft a half decent quarterback.

Happened in 1979, Phil Simms.

[MorTech]

What an outstanding Rube Goldberg Device...Can't wait!

[mntlblok]

On a more realistic note though--what about Stirling engines as a charging backup for your mythical EV? They don't need fossil fuels, merely a heat source to operate, and that can be anything. They've been around for 200 years but they've remained more a curiosity (though they were used to run pumps in mines at one time).

Cool. Now I've learnt of "regenerative heat exchangers". Picturing a little Maxwell's demon sitting there operating the valve. :-)

[vinricci]

I owned a Prius Prime back in 2016. For some reason Toyota made it very difficult to purchase one outside of California. I had to search the country to finally buy mine. 38 miles on battery, then switch over to gas engine for about 600 mile range. That is where all manufacturers should be working on Improving instead of all electric.

[revfiddle]

I just remember to plug it in when I get home. I don't take any trips longer than 220 miles, so that's a non issue.

[Caymus]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Going to need a lot more asphalt for road paving due to heavy EV batteries.

[TEXJK]

This post makes want to go hug a tree

[Remembergoldenrule]

Ok, what about where to put all the extra batteries when they die especially since don’t last as long, how manny trees will be cut down for factories, Electric car batteries are complex components containing many rare earth elements (REE), like lithium, nickel, cobalt, and graphite. As their name suggests, these materials are difficult to find and extract, requiring intensive mining and even some polluting processes to separate them from the soil. Let’s not forget these mineral mines are mostly controlled by China and child labor laws don’t apply. Some studies have shown that the manufacturing of a typical EV battery can result in higher carbon emissions compared to gasoline cars. This is due to the significant amount of energy required for the procurement of raw materials and the manufacturing process itself.
Extracting lithium from the brine is fairly straightforward and is done by evaporating the water to leave behind a lithium-rich solution.

Lithium mining’s environmental impact

Because of this evaporation process, lithium mining uses a large amount of groundwater that gets lost in the process. This can deprive local communities of drinking water and harms farming by reducing the water available for irrigation – especially given that most of the world’s lithium is extracted in arid regions with scarce water supplies in the first place.

On top of that, the remaining liquid left after lithium is extracted can contain toxic or radioactive elements and needs to be cleaned and stored before it can be released.
Manganese is usually mined in open pit mines, with around 80% of manganese production coming from South Africa. Australia, China, India, Ukraine, and Brazil also produce significant shares of the metal.

Manganese mining’s environmental impact

Because of its mining in open pits, manganese extraction can cause substantial air pollution, especially in dry areas where dust from mining can rise easily. Additionally, manganese can pollute the soil and water supply, including by introducing other chemical elements.
Let’s not forget all the employees replaced by automation in EV factories.
Also, don’t forget the EV charging stations use electricity which means electricity has to be produced and all the factors that go into that. Are you ready for more rolling brownouts and blackouts? Are you ok with all the environmental and other costs of more electric plants? Just thinking.

[skippy05]

Your range extendor was already a thing on the discontinued BMW electric i3. I owned one previously and it sucked even with the range extendor option.

[huge-pigeons]

There are probably 25% of so called scientists that are paid off to say whatever the payers want them to say. All of the scares these so called scientists have predicted during the last 100 years, with all of them saying we have a decade before we are wiped off the earth unless we do something, have all been debunked. How about the rising oceans because of the demise of all the glaciers?Isn’t Miami supposed to be under feet of water by now? These so-called scientists were predicting the villages would have ocean front property in a few years, they actually drew up maps depicting this scenario. Remember the hole in the ozone layer from decades ago? NOAA still says we have the hole over Antarctica and it won’t be fixed until the 2060’s. They also mention this hole is caused by natural means and is closing by natural means, this is why you don’t hear these so-called climatologists anymore because it’s been over a decade when doomsday was supposed to occur and nothing happened.

[Bwanajim]

Not for me. The electrical grid in this country would need a major major overhaul. Right now the average city block could only support three or four home charging stations.
Damage to the environment and in poor countries were the minerals are mined for batteries is horrible.
What do you do with the batteries when they need replaced?
Look how expensive the batteries are.
And, uh, what creates electricity to charge the vehicle? It’s not gonna be solar or windmills, it’s going to be possible fuels, and it always will be.

[MandoMan]

Lucky you OP your dream was answered by Toyota with last year's model year!

It's called the Prius Prime version of the Prius. the plug in version. Not only is it electric It's gasoline and it has a generator powered by gasoline to charge the battery. And it's zero to sixty is quite respectable.

And Toyota offers other plug in models including a SUV, which do the same.

I would be interested, except that the Prius was heavily redesigned for this year and is several inches lower. I don’t think I could get in and out. Alas! I love the Prius I’ve been driving for ten years.

[bigeasy]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!
Honda generator. Runs 24 hours on a gallon of diesel fuel. Put this onboard.

[Blackbird45]

Look you can argue ICE vs EVs until you're blue in the face, but EVs are going to win out in the long run, and it has nothing to do with climate change. This is a new market for the auto industry, increase profits for power suppliers and all that goes with it. Musk just signed a $100 million contract with BP to supply his super chargers to their gas stations. Tax dollars are allocated to put chargers on our highways. The benefit of getting out from under the thumb of foreign countries whims, plus once everything is in place and people start to get use to the convince ICE will slowly disappear. If and when that time comes many posters who are strong ICE advocates will either not want to discuss this topic or will deny they ever were opposed.

[merrymini]

That 97 percent number has been debunked many times, it is baloney. We might be helping climate change but we are not causing it. I owned a tesla, great car, but thinking that EV autos will take over is absurd. I also own a Prius and am planning to buy my fourth one, a Prime. My present car gets a combined 55 mpg and the hybrid will be electric before switching over to gas, brilliant. I may be in the “minority” because I do not believe that people are causing climate change, but I am the one driving an EV, a hybrid, I compost, save my water for my plants, use bamboo paper products, use a Swedish sponge instead of paper towels, have native plants and a nectar garden, use a reusable container for coffee and water, stopped using saran wrap. I may be a “minority” who actually puts my money where my mouth is which is more than many people around that waste without regard, while touting climate change. Charity starts at home.

[Fastskiguy]

700 mile range. Because cars need to handle every possible use case, real or imagined. And the phallic symbol angle is important too.

[nn0wheremann]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!
AFIK Ram is touting this truck with a 3.6 Liter gasoline engine to run the generator. It is a range extender rather than a hybrid because it relies upon the electric motor exclusively for propulsion.

Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it’s a pig in a poke. Time will tell if it’s a Mustang or an Edsel.

[airstreamingypsy]

NEWS FLASH
Global Warming does not exist and that’s a fact. Cars going to EV will not change anything at all as the modern cars do not even pollute very much.

Global warming does exist, that's a fact. To say otherwise is just ignorant.

[Bay Kid]

Your range extendor was already a thing on the discontinued BMW electric i3. I owned one previously and it sucked even with the range extendor option.

BMW just killed the 5 series by making it an EV, yuck.

[TomSpasm]

I always laugh to myself when someone starts moaning about all the pollution and environmental damage that mining for EV materals is going to cause. I've lived in 3 different places where the oil industry polluted the beaches. The east coast of Saudi Arabia, where Aramco would occasionally have a mishap. Santa Barbara, CA, where we needed to keep a bottle of baby oil at the door to wipe the tar off our feet after going to the beach (offshore rigs). And Madeira Beach, FL, where a tanker spill created an environmental disaster and made the beaches unusable for months. Bring on the EVs!

[airstreamingypsy]

For those who think there is no global warming....

Earth briefly passed a feared global warming milestone.

Average global temperatures were more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial times for the first time on Friday, data shows.

What it means: The climate is moving into uncharted territory after months of record warmth. A longer-term breach of this benchmark could have severe consequences.

I didn't know until reading this thread, that anyone still thinks GW is a hoax, I thought the debate was the cause, not the existence.

[rsimpson]

It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Hmmm!

You said this dream vehicle has a GAS TANK! and then you dream of Closing the Oil Fields - Where does the GAS come from in your dream?? Global Warming is a political scam, and millions are falling for it!

[Marine1974]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Though emissions deriving from mining these two elements are lower than those deriving from fossil fuels production, the extraction methods for lithium and cobalt can be very energy intensive – leading to air and water pollution, land degradation, and potential for groundwater contamination.Mar 31, 2023
Plus all heavy equipment uses
diesel fuel , oops . Ground water contamination and minefields uninhabitable for 100s of years .

[JMintzer]

No, the original number came from a survey paper by John Cook. The number has been misused countless times. Anyone who uses that number should really read the paper. After reading the paper, they won't use that number anymore.

You want those who claim "deniers" aren't doing their research to do actual research to back up their own claims?

That's crazy talk!

[RCMill531@comcast.net]

No problem with oil. So much hype about global warming but no substance.

[Bill14564]

You want those who claim "deniers" aren't doing their research to do actual research to back up their own claims?

That's crazy talk!

I did that once earlier this year for one of these threads. The 97% (or was it 99%) is accurate. Of those papers that took a stand on climate change, 97% agreed that climate change was real and that man’s actions are adding to it.

Certainly, there are biologists (scientists) who have no opinion on climate change. They are neither part of the 97% nor the 3%. There are also climate scientists who have not taken a stand or have no opinion on the issue. They are neither part of the 97% nor the 3%. But according to the study, of those climate scientists expressing an opinion in published papers, 97% supported the idea that man was contributing to climate change.

[Ecuadog]

I would be interested, except that the Prius was heavily redesigned for this year and is several inches lower. I don’t think I could get in and out. Alas! I love the Prius I’ve been driving for ten years.

Then have a look at the Toyota RAV4 Prime, if you can find one. Hen's teeth.

RAV4... click here (https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/).

[Caymus]

For those who think there is no global warming....

Earth briefly passed a feared global warming milestone.

Average global temperatures were more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial times for the first time on Friday, data shows.

What it means: The climate is moving into uncharted territory after months of record warmth. A longer-term breach of this benchmark could have severe consequences.

I didn't know until reading this thread, that anyone still thinks GW is a hoax, I thought the debate was the cause, not the existence.

So, how much warmer does it need to get before the dinosaurs return?

[Vermilion Villager]

Thank you for clarifying

I was listening to the 97% of scientists who accept climate change as fact, rather than the 3% in the pay of Big Oil - silly old me!

Looking forward to your future revelation that smoking is good for you
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Vermilion Villager]

I owned a Prius Prime back in 2016. For some reason Toyota made it very difficult to purchase one outside of California. I had to search the country to finally buy mine. 38 miles on battery, then switch over to gas engine for about 600 mile range. That is where all manufacturers should be working on Improving instead of all electric.
Had to do more with the predicted massive demand. Also, If you look most EVs are initially only brought out to a few states, and those are usually more southern with less harsh climate. The vehicles are vetted in this environment and then once the data comes in… And changes are made they are more readily available. I remember you could not get a Prius prime in Minnesota for several years. Now you can.

If you look… I'm sure you'll see almost every vehicle manufacturer offers hybrid versions. The issues with hybrids is you can only make a internal combustion engine so efficient. The remainder will have to rely on a battery stores for efficiency.

[djlnc]

I always laugh to myself when someone starts moaning about all the pollution and environmental damage that mining for EV materals is going to cause.

Study up a bit on the ecological disaster known as Lithium Mining. There's a new operation starting up in Nevada that will use 5,000 TONS of sulfuric acid per day.

[Eclas]

Such a shame. Closing down the oil fields will not stop global warming. Maybe stopping the controlled burning would help? Maybe more money? Maybe solar panels covering our corn fields? Maybe windmills full of oil over our waters will help, until they leak?

Or it won't help at all because man made global warming is the biggest scam on the planet

[Eclas]

For those who think there is no global warming....

Earth briefly passed a feared global warming milestone.

Average global temperatures were more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial times for the first time on Friday, data shows.

What it means: The climate is moving into uncharted territory after months of record warmth. A longer-term breach of this benchmark could have severe consequences.

I didn't know until reading this thread, that anyone still thinks GW is a hoax, I thought the debate was the cause, not the existence.

Global warming is not a hoax however man made global warming is total BS.

[dhdallas]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV so why do you and so many others hate them and feel compelled to actively protest against them? Right now an EV is perfect as a second car for errands and short work commutes where you don't need to worry about available commercial charge stations. They are not yet ready for long road trips to to range limitations and lack of charging infrastructure but that will change eventually. You guys seem to hate anything that is positive for the environment. Fortunately your generation will be dead soon and but your children will inherit the polluted dying planet you created.

One last point: All of our problems with terrorists, wars and the Middle East are caused by our interference in Middle Eastern affairs due to our need for oil. Eliminate the need for oil and thus eliminate our presence in the region and the problems related to the Middle East will be a thing of the past.

[JMintzer]

I did that once earlier this year for one of these threads. The 97% (or was it 99%) is accurate. Of those papers that took a stand on climate change, 97% agreed that climate change was real and that man’s actions are adding to it.

Certainly, there are biologists (scientists) who have no opinion on climate change. They are neither part of the 97% nor the 3%. There are also climate scientists who have not taken a stand or have no opinion on the issue. They are neither part of the 97% nor the 3%. But according to the study, of those climate scientists expressing an opinion in published papers, 97% supported the idea that man was contributing to climate change.

Incorrect...

"This public discussion was started by Oreskes’ brief 2004 article, which included an analysis of 928 papers containing the keywords “global climate change.” The article says “none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position” of anthropogenic global warming. Although this article makes no claim to a specific number, it is routinely described as indicating 100% agreement and used as support for the 97% figure."

See the rest of the article here...

Fact Checking The Claim Of 97% Consensus On Anthropogenic Climate Change (https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2016/12/14/fact-checking-the-97-consensus-on-anthropogenic-climate-change/?sh=554c94a11157)

[JMintzer]

Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV so why do you and so many others hate them and feel compelled to actively protest against them? Right now an EV is perfect as a second car for errands and short work commutes where you don't need to worry about available commercial charge stations. They are not yet ready for long road trips to to range limitations and lack of charging infrastructure but that will change eventually. You guys seem to hate anything that is positive for the environment. Fortunately your generation will be dead soon and but your children will inherit the polluted dying planet you created.

One last point: All of our problems with terrorists, wars and the Middle East are caused by our interference in Middle Eastern affairs due to our need for oil. Eliminate the need for oil and thus eliminate our presence in the region and the problems related to the Middle East will be a thing of the past.

Certain states (and the Fed Gubmint) are most certainly mandating (forcing) you to buy EVs... (see California...)

EPA’s New Electric Vehicle Mandate: Too Far, Too Fast | NADA (https://www.nada.org/legislative/epas-new-electric-vehicle-mandate-too-far-too-fast)

"Will electric cars be mandatory in California?

Yes. California is only requiring that all NEW cars sold in 2035 and beyond are zero-emission vehicles which includes battery electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles."

ca ev mandate - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=ca+ev+mandate&sca_esv=584157642&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS873US874&biw=1186&bih=758&sxsrf=AM9HkKlUuV2o8KkuvkVCMaJXmofizIRCdw%3A1700534 432870&ei=oBhcZZ3VNPOv5NoPjpaa8Aw&ved=0ahUKEwidpbK2iNSCAxXzF1kFHQ6LBs4Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=ca+ev+mandate&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiDWNhIGV2IG1hbmRhdGUyCxAA GIAEGIoFGJECMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgMyCx AAGIAEGIoFGIYDMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgNI sgpQ_gRYnwhwAXgAkAEAmAFGoAH6AaoBATS4AQPIAQD4AQHCAg cQIxiwAxgnwgIKEAAYRxjWBBiwA8ICBhAAGAcYHsICCBAAGAgY Bxge4gMEGAAgQYgGAZAGCQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)

[Bill14564]

Incorrect...

"This public discussion was started by Oreskes’ brief 2004 article, which included an analysis of 928 papers containing the keywords “global climate change.” The article says “none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position” of anthropogenic global warming. Although this article makes no claim to a specific number, it is routinely described as indicating 100% agreement and used as support for the 97% figure."

See the rest of the article here...

Fact Checking The Claim Of 97% Consensus On Anthropogenic Climate Change (https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2016/12/14/fact-checking-the-97-consensus-on-anthropogenic-climate-change/?sh=554c94a11157)

From the article you linked:

Cook is careful to describe his 2013 study results as being based on “climate experts.” Political figures and the popular press are not so careful. President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have repeatedly characterized it as 97% of scientists. Kerry has gone so far as to say that “97 percent of peer-reviewed climate studies confirm that climate change is happening and that human activity is largely responsible.” This is patently wrong, since the Cook study and others showed that the majority of papers take no position. One does not expect nuance in political speeches, and the authors of scientific papers cannot be held responsible for the statements of politicians and the media.

Given these results, it is clear that support among scientists for human-caused climate change is below 97%. Most studies including specialties other than climatologists find support in the range of 80% to 90%. The 97% consensus of scientists, when used without limitation to climate scientists, is false.
Which is what I wrote.

The author then goes on to say he disagrees with the methodology of the Cook study. I'm sure Cook and others disagree with his disagreement.

[Escape Artist]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

It already exists, it’s called a hybrid like a Prius. It’s a good common sense solution and compromise.

[DonnaNi4os]

Hybrids sound like the best alternative for what is available now. I just can’t wrap my head around an all electric vehicle. Don’t tell my daughter. She drives a Polestar and works on their marketing.

[Harold.wiser]

It's hard to believe the OP was serious. If the oil fields are shut down, where does his "small" 27 gallon tank of gas come from?
Also, this dream is exactly how train locomotives work now.
Keep dreaming and maybe you can invent a phone that accesses the internet and takes pictures 😅

[PjLyness1965]

Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV so why do you and so many others hate them and feel compelled to actively protest against them? Right now an EV is perfect as a second car for errands and short work commutes where you don't need to worry about available commercial charge stations. They are not yet ready for long road trips to to range limitations and lack of charging infrastructure but that will change eventually. You guys seem to hate anything that is positive for the environment. Fortunately your generation will be dead soon and but your children will inherit the polluted dying planet you created.

One last point: All of our problems with terrorists, wars and the Middle East are caused by our interference in Middle Eastern affairs due to our need for oil. Eliminate the need for oil and thus eliminate our presence in the region and the problems related to the Middle East will be a thing of the past.
According to Biden administration all vehicles will be electric by 2035. So yes, we are in fact being forced to buy EV’s.

[biker1]

The all electric Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the US and the world.

Hybrids sound like the best alternative for what is available now. I just can’t wrap my head around an all electric vehicle. Don’t tell my daughter. She drives a Polestar and works on their marketing.

[biker1]

Not true. Gasoline cars will be around for probably the next 30 years. You will see the percentage of new cars that are gasoline drop off to near zero but used gasoline cars will be around for some time. The Government may continue to provide incentives to buy an electric car, in much the same way that they provide incentives to buy a house.

According to Biden administration all vehicles will be electric by 2035. So yes, we are in fact being forced to buy EV’s.

[Kstastny]

I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated hybrid. Hmmm!

So you believe oil is only for gasoline? Look around at all the items you use that is petroleum based.

[Keefelane66]

There is no Fereral mandate or Congress passed Bill to force the consumer to buy EV.
“ Federal Sustainability Plan requires federal agencies to transition the largest fleet in the world to all electric by acquiring 100 percent light-duty ZEVs annually by 2027 and acquiring 100 percent medium- and heavy-duty ZEVs annually by 2035.”

[huge-pigeons]

EV’s will take many decades to be a viable alternative to gas vehicles. A relative works for a company that has EV trucks for hauling, they need double the amount of vehicles to do what a diesel truck can do. Battery life and towing capacity are the main issues, plus you just can’t pull over and do a quick charge while a hired driver is sitting around for many hours unproductive while getting paid

[defrey12]

Thank you for clarifying

I was listening to the 97% of scientists who accept climate change as fact, rather than the 3% in the pay of Big Oil - silly old me!

Looking forward to your future revelation that smoking is good for you

Yes, they accept climate change as a fact. And it is. BUT NOT for the reasons YOU and yours profess.

[Vermilion Villager]

Study up a bit on the ecological disaster known as Lithium Mining. There's a new operation starting up in Nevada that will use 5,000 TONS of sulfuric acid per day.

Let's be more specific… The mine your referring to is the Thacker pass mine. That sulfur will be turned molton on site to make sulfuric acid. The sulfur is a waste byproduct, and comes from… Wait for it....OIL REFINERIES!!!! Burning the sulfur to produce sulfuric acid is an exothermic reaction, allowing the plant to generate most of its own electricity.

So the mine recycles waste byproducts created by the oil industry and does not require any external energy.:welcome:

[Vermilion Villager]

Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV so why do you and so many others hate them and feel compelled to actively protest against them? Right now an EV is perfect as a second car for errands and short work commutes where you don't need to worry about available commercial charge stations. They are not yet ready for long road trips to to range limitations and lack of charging infrastructure but that will change eventually. You guys seem to hate anything that is positive for the environment. Fortunately your generation will be dead soon and but your children will inherit the polluted dying planet you created.

One last point: All of our problems with terrorists, wars and the Middle East are caused by our interference in Middle Eastern affairs due to our need for oil. Eliminate the need for oil and thus eliminate our presence in the region and the problems related to the Middle East will be a thing of the past.
Haters gonna hate (The old foggies with one foot in the grave won't get that one either)
I got odds that says no one will counter your post!!!!

[Vermilion Villager]

According to Biden administration all vehicles will be electric by 2035. So yes, we are in fact being forced to buy EV’s.
FAKE NEWS!! The goal of the administration is to have 50% of the vehicles battery powered by 2030. The operative word is goal. There is nothing that says it's a mandate. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-private-and-public-sector-investments-for-affordable-electric-vehicles/

[Pegasusprt]

Why doesn't EV evolve naturally instead of being jam down our throats. I am also ****ed at subsidizing up to 50% on every EV.

[Keefelane66]

Why doesn't EV evolve naturally instead of being jam down our throats. I am also ****ed at subsidizing up to 50% on every EV.
Change your tv or radio station.
“ Some all-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles qualify for a $3,700 to $7,500 federal tax credit.“
If it were a 50% credit id buy an EV tomorrow!

[djlnc]

The sulfur is a waste byproduct, and comes from… Wait for it....OIL REFINERIES!!!! Burning the sulfur to produce sulfuric acid is an exothermic reaction, allowing the plant to generate most of its own electricity.



And burning the sulfur creates...Wait for it...Sulfur Dioxide, which they claim they can clean up and not pollute.
There's also the issue with the huge amount of water they will use and lower the water table in this area.
And water consumption is a huge issue with the more traditional lithium mining in South America. They are using 500,000
gallons of water for a ton of lithium - in areas where water is scarce.

[biker1]

No, that is not true. There is an up to $7500 Federal Government subside, plus some states also have subsides, but that is not 50% of the cost of the car. It would, however, be correct to say that some automakers are losing money on their EVs. Essentially, the other operations in the company are subsidizing their EVs. Also, nobody is forcing you to buy an EV. However, if the Government is going to provide financial incentives for you to buy an EV perhaps you should take advantage of that. I assume at one point in your life you had a house with a mortgage. If that is in fact true, the Government was subsidizing your mortgage. Did you have issues with that?

Why doesn't EV evolve naturally instead of being jam down our throats. I am also ****ed at subsidizing up to 50% on every EV.

[Nellmack]

NEWS FLASH
Global Warming does not exist and that’s a fact. Cars going to EV will not change anything at all as the modern cars do not even pollute very much.


Ironic opinion from someone with the name "JRcorvette" :)

[craarmy]

Motherearth magazine back in the 70's had plans for doing the same thing converting a Pinto wagon, 90mpg using like a 27hp Briggs and Straton engine for running the generator. the Ram in last weeks paper seemed simular, but question why use a V6 when you you could get by with a 4 cyclinder with better mileage.

[PhilG]

I had a dream I was 21 and had hair again.

[jimjamuser]

NEWS FLASH
Global Warming does not exist and that’s a fact. Cars going to EV will not change anything at all as the modern cars do not even pollute very much.
Global Warming DOES exist and that IS a Fact. And that fact is supported by 90% of climate scientists worldwide. The last 8 years have been increasing record HEAT.This very year 2023 so far had the hottest summer EVER on the planet. And Nov. is on its way toward being the HOTTEST Nov. on record. Both poles are losing ice and scientists are measuring a rise in ocean levels that are increasing at an alarming rate. Plus the coral reefs are dying. Many animal species are threatened with extinction due to the increased HEAT being too rapid for them to adapt to.
........I think that a lot of people are not admitting to reality.
.........And the increasing purchases of E-vehicles is one step toward reversing GW.
.........Also be aware that automobiles have catalytic converters and other smog and pollution controlling equipment - gas Golf Carts, lawnmowers, leaf blowers, and gas motorcycles without pollution control devices are creating MAJOR POLLUTION.

[jimjamuser]

Think of the range you could get if you hauled a small trailer with a couple hundred gallons of gas to keep those batteries charged!
Making jokes about Global Warming and E-vehicles vs gas vehicles - reminds me of the Historic fact that ,"Nero fiddled while ROME BURNED."

[jimjamuser]

[QUOTE=mtdjed;2275784]I had a dream that there will be an Electric Vehicle that solves the range of miles problem, lack of charging stations, time of charging etc. The truck will be scheduled for 2025 intro. It will get about 700 miles range without a need for stopping.

It will have its own generator to keep the battery charged. The generator is to be called a milage extender. Of course, generators require power to work. The uniqueness of his concept is that a readily available fuel, gasoline, will be used. It is planned that a small tank of gas will be stored on the vehicle. (Perhaps 27 Gal).

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.

Alas, only a dream. Starts to sound like a complicated

We can only dream, BUT I'm sure the "Steve Jobs" out there will make it happen!
Electric vehicles are in their infancy - the early years of their development. Gas vehicles are at the end of their developmental lifetimes. In the next few years there will be improved batteries and charging stations everywhere. Electric range anxiety will be a thing of the past. And that MAY happen in time to prevent IR-REVERSABLE global warming RUNAWAY.

[Vermilion Villager]

Such a shame. Closing down the oil fields will not stop global warming. Maybe stopping the controlled burning would help? Maybe more money? Maybe solar panels covering our corn fields? Maybe windmills full of oil over our waters will help, until they leak?
1.1 million gallons leaked as of Monday and they still can't find the leak!
But yes...lets talk about hydraulic fluid coming from a windmill. :mornincoffee:

Oil spill could put endangered species at risk in Gulf of Mexico (https://www.yahoo.com/news/oil-spill-could-put-endangered-144046947.html)

[jimjamuser]

I just remember to plug it in when I get home. I don't take any trips longer than 220 miles, so that's a non issue.
Most people are that way. Rent a gas vehicle when going on vacation and take away ALL those range anxiety fears.

[jimjamuser]

Going to need a lot more asphalt for road paving due to heavy EV batteries.
The total weight is the same as with a HEAVY gas engine.

[jimjamuser]

Ok, what about where to put all the extra batteries when they die especially since don’t last as long, how manny trees will be cut down for factories, Electric car batteries are complex components containing many rare earth elements (REE), like lithium, nickel, cobalt, and graphite. As their name suggests, these materials are difficult to find and extract, requiring intensive mining and even some polluting processes to separate them from the soil. Let’s not forget these mineral mines are mostly controlled by China and child labor laws don’t apply. Some studies have shown that the manufacturing of a typical EV battery can result in higher carbon emissions compared to gasoline cars. This is due to the significant amount of energy required for the procurement of raw materials and the manufacturing process itself.
Extracting lithium from the brine is fairly straightforward and is done by evaporating the water to leave behind a lithium-rich solution.

Lithium mining’s environmental impact

Because of this evaporation process, lithium mining uses a large amount of groundwater that gets lost in the process. This can deprive local communities of drinking water and harms farming by reducing the water available for irrigation – especially given that most of the world’s lithium is extracted in arid regions with scarce water supplies in the first place.

On top of that, the remaining liquid left after lithium is extracted can contain toxic or radioactive elements and needs to be cleaned and stored before it can be released.
Manganese is usually mined in open pit mines, with around 80% of manganese production coming from South Africa. Australia, China, India, Ukraine, and Brazil also produce significant shares of the metal.

Manganese mining’s environmental impact

Because of its mining in open pits, manganese extraction can cause substantial air pollution, especially in dry areas where dust from mining can rise easily. Additionally, manganese can pollute the soil and water supply, including by introducing other chemical elements.
Let’s not forget all the employees replaced by automation in EV factories.
Also, don’t forget the EV charging stations use electricity which means electricity has to be produced and all the factors that go into that. Are you ready for more rolling brownouts and blackouts? Are you ok with all the environmental and other costs of more electric plants? Just thinking.
New innovation may produce cleaner batteries. We are in the early stage of the EV saga. Innovation HAPPENS !

[jimjamuser]

There are probably 25% of so called scientists that are paid off to say whatever the payers want them to say. All of the scares these so called scientists have predicted during the last 100 years, with all of them saying we have a decade before we are wiped off the earth unless we do something, have all been debunked. How about the rising oceans because of the demise of all the glaciers?Isn’t Miami supposed to be under feet of water by now? These so-called scientists were predicting the villages would have ocean front property in a few years, they actually drew up maps depicting this scenario. Remember the hole in the ozone layer from decades ago? NOAA still says we have the hole over Antarctica and it won’t be fixed until the 2060’s. They also mention this hole is caused by natural means and is closing by natural means, this is why you don’t hear these so-called climatologists anymore because it’s been over a decade when doomsday was supposed to occur and nothing happened.
WELL, Miami is scheduled to be under water by about 2050.

[jimjamuser]

Not for me. The electrical grid in this country would need a major major overhaul. Right now the average city block could only support three or four home charging stations.
Damage to the environment and in poor countries were the minerals are mined for batteries is horrible.
What do you do with the batteries when they need replaced?
Look how expensive the batteries are.
And, uh, what creates electricity to charge the vehicle? It’s not gonna be solar or windmills, it’s going to be possible fuels, and it always will be.
I love the "always will be" statements. I bet people said that about horses and buggies.

[tophcfa]

WELL, Miami is scheduled to be under water by about 2050.

And we’re all scheduled to be underground by then.

[jimjamuser]

For those who think there is no global warming....

Earth briefly passed a feared global warming milestone.

Average global temperatures were more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial times for the first time on Friday, data shows.

What it means: The climate is moving into uncharted territory after months of record warmth. A longer-term breach of this benchmark could have severe consequences.

I didn't know until reading this thread, that anyone still thinks GW is a hoax, I thought the debate was the cause, not the existence.
I read that also!

[jimjamuser]

So, how much warmer does it need to get before the dinosaurs return?
Denying a problem does NOT solve the problem. There we go again, "Nero is fiddling again and the earth is burning".

[Topspinmo]

Honda generator. Runs 24 hours on a gallon of diesel fuel. Put this onboard.

What’s amps output? It may take lot more than 24 hours?

[Topspinmo]

For those who think there is no global warming....

Earth briefly passed a feared global warming milestone.

Average global temperatures were more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial times for the first time on Friday, data shows.

What it means: The climate is moving into uncharted territory after months of record warmth. A longer-term breach of this benchmark could have severe consequences.

I didn't know until reading this thread, that anyone still thinks GW is a hoax, I thought the debate was the cause, not the existence.


graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png | NOAA Climate.gov (http://www.climate.gov/media/11332)

And could not. Long ways to go looking at chart.

[Topspinmo]

I always laugh to myself when someone starts moaning about all the pollution and environmental damage that mining for EV materals is going to cause. I've lived in 3 different places where the oil industry polluted the beaches. The east coast of Saudi Arabia, where Aramco would occasionally have a mishap. Santa Barbara, CA, where we needed to keep a bottle of baby oil at the door to wipe the tar off our feet after going to the beach (offshore rigs). And Madeira Beach, FL, where a tanker spill created an environmental disaster and made the beaches unusable for months. Bring on the EVs!

So how going build EV with crud oil? How going to build. Solar with crud oil? How you going to build wind turbines without crud oil? Everything industrial produced by crud oil.

[Topspinmo]

Denying a problem does NOT solve the problem. There we go again, "Nero is fiddling again and the earth is burning".


Lot warmer when look at the chart

graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png | NOAA Climate.gov (http://www.climate.gov/media/11332)

[Topspinmo]

I love the "always will be" statements. I bet people said that about horses and buggies.

By this chart earth nowhere near it maximum average temperatures.

graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png | NOAA Climate.gov (http://www.climate.gov/media/11332)

[Bill14564]

graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png | NOAA Climate.gov (http://www.climate.gov/media/11332)

And could not. Long ways to go looking at chart.

By this chart earth nowhere near it maximum average temperatures.

graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png | NOAA Climate.gov (http://www.climate.gov/media/11332)

Nice chart but maybe needs some context.

Apes and humans did not exist 50,000,000 years ago when the earth was much warmer. Apes and gorillas appeared somewhere around 10,000,000 years ago and humans around 550,000 years ago. It is impossible to tell from this graph just what the temperature was at 550,000 years ago but it was clearly well into the blue range.

So sure, the earth has been much warmer, but man wasn't around to see it. I'm all for trying new things but warming the earth to prehistoric temperatures just to see what will happen doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Caymus]

The total weight is the same as with a HEAVY gas engine.

Did you just make that up?

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2023/04/28/evs-weight-safety-problems)

[mtdjed]

You said this dream vehicle has a GAS TANK! and then you dream of Closing the Oil Fields - Where does the GAS come from in your dream?? Global Warming is a political scam, and millions are falling for it!


It seems so hard for many to understand sarcasm.

[mtdjed]

It already exists, it’s called a hybrid like a Prius. It’s a good common sense solution and compromise.\

Not true. A Prius can run on Gas. This Ramcharger is always runs on electric. The generator and the gas tank simply charge the battery.

[Topspinmo]

Nice chart but maybe needs some context.

Apes and humans did not exist 50,000,000 years ago when the earth was much warmer. Apes and gorillas appeared somewhere around 10,000,000 years ago and humans around 550,000 years ago. It is impossible to tell from this graph just what the temperature was at 550,000 years ago but it was clearly well into the blue range.

So sure, the earth has been much warmer, but man wasn't around to see it. I'm all for trying new things but warming the earth to prehistoric temperatures just to see what will happen doesn't seem like a good idea.


https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/ClimateDashboard-global-surface-temperature-graph-20230118-1400px.png

When you measure in hundreds last 100 years or so make chart look like we’re going to burn in hail….:o. And you can see the chart trending down.

[Bill14564]

https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/ClimateDashboard-global-surface-temperature-graph-20230118-1400px.png

When you measure in hundreds last 100 years or so make chart look like we’re going to burn in hail….:o. And you can see the chart trending down.

I see a chart trending up. The rate is *possibly* slowing BUT 2023 isn't plotted yet. With five of the last eight years significantly higher than the trend, I would be concerned that the lower 2021 and 2022 might be the exception and the rate might have actually increased.

[Pugchief]

So sure, the earth has been much warmer, but man wasn't around to see it. I'm all for trying new things but warming the earth to prehistoric temperatures just to see what will happen doesn't seem like a good idea.

If you acknowledge that the earth has been much warmer, and before humans inhabited it, what makes you certain that the current warming is anthropogenic rather than just part of a cycle?

[Bill14564]

If you acknowledge that the earth has been much warmer, and before humans inhabited it, what makes you certain that the current warming is anthropogenic rather than just part of a cycle?

I'm not sure. I see an increasing rate of warming coincide with an increasing use of fossil fuels and I wonder if they are related. Some are adamant that there is no relationship or even deny that there is any warming at all. Others are confident that there a causal relationship. I am not confident that man is causing the warming but I can't deny the correlation and am happy that we are taking steps to reduce our impact.

[mtdjed]

WELL, Miami is scheduled to be under water by about 2050.

Well, that certainly qualifies as extreme Hybebole.

The global average sea level has risen about 250 millimetres (9.8 in) since 1880. Between 1901 and 2018, the average global sea level rose by 15–25 cm (6–10 in), or an average of 1–2 mm per year. This rate accelerated to 4.62 mm/yr for the decade 2013–2022.

Let's say 5mm per year for 26 yrs. That is 130 mm by 2050, or a little over 5 inches. And that on the high side especially with the intro of EVs

If Miami is scheduled to be underwater by 2050, it must be sinking.

Don't tell us the Miami is going to be under water despite removing the cause.

[jimjamuser]

Well, that certainly qualifies as extreme Hybebole.

The global average sea level has risen about 250 millimetres (9.8 in) since 1880. Between 1901 and 2018, the average global sea level rose by 15–25 cm (6–10 in), or an average of 1–2 mm per year. This rate accelerated to 4.62 mm/yr for the decade 2013–2022.

Let's say 5mm per year for 26 yrs. That is 130 mm by 2050, or a little over 5 inches. And that on the high side especially with the intro of EVs

If Miami is scheduled to be underwater by 2050, it must be sinking.

Don't tell us the Miami is going to be under water despite removing the cause.
From the Climate.gov site. If you take the highest calculated rate (future could be worse than expected) and project to 2100 (73 years from now) you get about 7 feet of future sea level rise. Local rates may exceed the global rate. Along the Gulf of Mexico, like at Sarasota, sea level is supposed to be EXTRA BAD.
........That would be STEADY state sea level rise. Then when you take into consideration HIGH TIDES, storm surges, and Hurricanes, you have a very LARGE problem. By 2100 Sarasota could be washed away and Tampa could be a swamp.
.........Now, what if we add in population growth (or explosion) in the world. That means more cars, and large trucks operating. We can add more factories - therefore more pollution. Thus more HEAT reflected from the upper atmosphere.
.........Then, there is sure to be some more wars - maybe WW3 and more pollution given off.
..........The bottom line is that TODAY we need to build and BUY more EVs and E-golf carts and find some way to lower the projected world population numbers. Failure to do those things will SEVERELY hurt the next and future generations.

[mtdjed]

From the Climate.gov site. If you take the highest calculated rate (future could be worse than expected) and project to 2100 (73 years from now) you get about 7 feet of future sea level rise. Local rates may exceed the global rate. Along the Gulf of Mexico, like at Sarasota, sea level is supposed to be EXTRA BAD.
........That would be STEADY state sea level rise. Then when you take into consideration HIGH TIDES, storm surges, and Hurricanes, you have a very LARGE problem. By 2100 Sarasota could be washed away and Tampa could be a swamp.
.........Now, what if we add in population growth (or explosion) in the world. That means more cars, and large trucks operating. We can add more factories - therefore more pollution. Thus more HEAT reflected from the upper atmosphere.
.........Then, there is sure to be some more wars - maybe WW3 and more pollution given off.
..........The bottom line is that TODAY we need to build and BUY more EVs and E-golf carts and find some way to lower the projected world population numbers. Failure to do those things will SEVERELY hurt the next and future generations.

I was using the highest actual rate and got 5" raise in 26 years, projected to 2100 would be about 15 inches.

Your doomsday projection must be assuming that all of the dollars spent TODAY for green energy does not work. If it did work, you would expect that the rate would be lower.

We are talking mm of sea raise per year i.e. 3mm a year for the last 100 plus years, not 1 inch plus per year .

[JMintzer]

From the article you linked:

Cook is careful to describe his 2013 study results as being based on “climate experts.” Political figures and the popular press are not so careful. President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have repeatedly characterized it as 97% of scientists. Kerry has gone so far as to say that “97 percent of peer-reviewed climate studies confirm that climate change is happening and that human activity is largely responsible.” This is patently wrong, since the Cook study and others showed that the majority of papers take no position. One does not expect nuance in political speeches, and the authors of scientific papers cannot be held responsible for the statements of politicians and the media.

Given these results, it is clear that support among scientists for human-caused climate change is below 97%. Most studies including specialties other than climatologists find support in the range of 80% to 90%. The 97% consensus of scientists, when used without limitation to climate scientists, is false.
Which is what I wrote.

The author then goes on to say he disagrees with the methodology of the Cook study. I'm sure Cook and others disagree with his disagreement.

Thank you for helping make my point...

[JMintzer]

Haters gonna hate (The old foggies with one foot in the grave won't get that one either)
I got odds that says no one will counter your post!!!!

I countered his post with actual facts...

[JMintzer]

Did you just make that up?

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2023/04/28/evs-weight-safety-problems)

This is my "shocked" face...

https://gifdb.com/images/high/shocked-face-joey-friends-bt164sxafe8rvhf5.gif

[Bill14564]

Thank you for helping make my point...

Which was what?

The 97% number is backed up with data. It is a specific claim that is often misrepresented but it is accurate as stated. As with many other things, there are those that disagree with the data or the analysis. Having detractors doesn't make the number wrong, it just makes it controversial. Was *that* your point?

[MorTech]

"You spend the first three hours on the ground pedaling like mad to charge a small battery"

Two Big Macs and all-day-long pedaling might yield you one kilowatt...Or you could just give 10 cents to SECO instead :)

[jimjamuser]

I was using the highest actual rate and got 5" raise in 26 years, projected to 2100 would be about 15 inches.

Your doomsday projection must be assuming that all of the dollars spent TODAY for green energy does not work. If it did work, you would expect that the rate would be lower.

We are talking mm of sea raise per year i.e. 3mm a year for the last 100 plus years, not 1 inch plus per year .
That last line ASSUMES that ocean level is rising at that constant rate (that you quoted). If people read the article that I quoted (and there are other science papers like that) they will see that they can forget CONSTANT RATE. We have recently in the last 8 years experienced GREATER heat REFLECTED FROM THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE. ( my opinion.....probably caused by increased world population and greater use of fossil fuels like gas for cars and golf cars and equipment).
......In the article that I quoted there are graphs predicting ocean level rise. They are ALL INCREASING (NOT CONSTANT).
.......Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I will be dead by the time Miami and Sarasota are underwater. And it is NOT MY research that says this----------it is climate scientists. And yes, they are worried to a point of hysteria. AND that is because the average person IS NOT LISTENING.

[jimjamuser]

If you acknowledge that the earth has been much warmer, and before humans inhabited it, what makes you certain that the current warming is anthropogenic rather than just part of a cycle?
Because that is what scientists are telling us.

[bopat]

I can't drive more than 250 or so miles before I need to eat and use the restroom.
And that's about the same amount of time it takes to charge my Tesla to continue a long trip.


Have done that many times cross-country in the past few years.

It's not a problem.

And when I drive locally, I'm always charged from the night before, even using a 110 outlet in the garage.

I'd waste more time finding a gas station and gassing up every once in a while as well as wasting hours every bunch of months getting the gas car serviced and being told I need to have my headlights rotated.

So I figure having an EV actually SAVES TIME when driving local.

[Caymus]

I'm not sure. I see an increasing rate of warming coincide with an increasing use of fossil fuels and I wonder if they are related. Some are adamant that there is no relationship or even deny that there is any warming at all. Others are confident that there a causal relationship. I am not confident that man is causing the warming but I can't deny the correlation and am happy that we are taking steps to reduce our impact.


How do you know it isn't due to population growth?

[Two Bills]

101304

[Bill14564]

How do you know it isn't due to population growth?

If the increasing rate of warming is due to population growth then it is still manmade.

[Battlebasset]

Buy a Ford Lightning F-150. Throw a sizable generator in back. Carry around extra gas cans. When battery starts to get low, fire up the generator to charge your batteries until you can get back home to your garage charger.

Sure, it's still burning fossil fuels to keep moving, but technically you can tell everyone you drive an EV. And telling everyone you drive an EV is really the goal of having an EV, right?

In fact, I tell everyone I have an EV. I just don't mention that it's a golf cart that never goes further than 15 miles from my house.

[jimjamuser]

I can't drive more than 250 or so miles before I need to eat and use the restroom.
And that's about the same amount of time it takes to charge my Tesla to continue a long trip.


Have done that many times cross-country in the past few years.

It's not a problem.

And when I drive locally, I'm always charged from the night before, even using a 110 outlet in the garage.

I'd waste more time finding a gas station and gassing up every once in a while as well as wasting hours every bunch of months getting the gas car serviced and being told I need to have my headlights rotated.

So I figure having an EV actually SAVES TIME when driving local.
I agree with that logic. Plus at a bigger picture - less oil and gasoline usage means that the US is less dependent on the Middle East and other countries like Russia that HATE us.
........Plus the BIGGEST picture - less gasoline usage means less PLANET destroying Global Warming.

[jimjamuser]

There is ANOTHER type of pollution that surrounds us in The Villages that goes virtually UNNOTICED. It is NOISE pollution! Sit outside .....ANYWHERE in TV Land and your ear drums will be attacked by the NOISE of LOUD, GASOLINE ENGINES. And, strangely, this are NOT the large displacement gas car and trucks ENGINES. They are the WHINNY small displacement gas weed eaters and edgers used by our many pay-to-cut PROFESSIONALS (because our amateur workers are too lazy and claim that they will miss out on an extra 9 holes of golf). If our healthy RETIRED citizens would shuffle their butts off to Home Depot and purchase some battery powered and QUIET weed eaters and hedge trimmers we would NOTICE the PEACE and QUIET. And besides the REDUCTION in the noise level by using electric versus gasoline small tools, WE would be putting out less air pollution. Thus helping the LUNGS of our fellow seniors that need ALL the lung function that they can possible have. Better lung function and better and less irritating hearing - folks .....its thee famous 2.....fer.
........Next we could talk about the medium sized polluting devices gasoline Golf Carts vrs E-Golf Carts. Just listen to (and SMELL) those gas golf cart as they WHIZZ by illegally going at 30 MPH and up. Why are they louder than your lovely Buick? Answer........because they have NO cat converter and a cheap minimal muffler. So, besides spouting out extra noise (for gas versus electric) they are spouting out BIG TIME POLLUTION. Another 2 fer !!!!!
.......Now, imagine a Village World with ZERO gas engines, only Electric. I wonder if you can. No air and noise pollution. I wonder if you can. Some say that I am a DREAMER, but i'm NOT the only one. No lung pollution to DIE for. I wonder if you CAN ?????????

[Pugchief]

I'm not sure. I see an increasing rate of warming coincide with an increasing use of fossil fuels and I wonder if they are related. Some are adamant that there is no relationship or even deny that there is any warming at all. Others are confident that there a causal relationship. I am not confident that man is causing the warming but I can't deny the correlation and am happy that we are taking steps to reduce our impact.
No problem with trying to improve things by taking steps. What I object to are the mandates and edicts that seek to control our lives and reduce our freedoms, all in the name of a cause that you say "I'm not sure" about.

[Pugchief]

Because that is what scientists are telling us.

Would that be those same scientists that proved so trustworthy during the pandemic?
Or would it be the ones that are forced to conform to the approved narrative in order to continue receiving the grants that allow them to stay employed?

Just not sure which of those you are referring to.

[MorTech]

Come on, people! The climate scam is not that hard to figure out. It is basic science. The earth is still in an ice age. We know this because most to the earth surface is desert or frozen. 400 ppm CO2 is near starvation level. 1200 ppm CO2 is optimal for biolife.

Haven't you figure out by now that everything you hear on the idiot box is a blatant lie?

[Bill14564]

Would that be those same scientists that proved so trustworthy during the pandemic?
Or would it be the ones that are forced to conform to the approved narrative in order to continue receiving the grants that allow them to stay employed?

Just not sure which of those you are referring to.

Pretty much the same conspiracy theories from the same bunch of folks.

[Bill14564]

Come on, people! The climate scam is not that hard to figure out. It is basic science. The earth is still in an ice age. We know this because most to the earth surface is desert or frozen. 400 ppm CO2 is near starvation level. 1200 ppm CO2 is optimal for biolife.

Haven't you figure out by now that everything you hear on the idiot box is a blatant lie?

Most of the surface is frozen or desert? Really?

Of course, "ice age" is just a term humans invented to describe a time when the polar caps were covered by ice so yeah, we are in an ice age. And it's a very good thing we are since we don't want to experience the rise in sea level that would accompany a polar ice melt.

Not sure where you get your information from but humans don't survive well in atmospheres rich in CO2. I always thought humans were part of "biolife" but maybe not.

[GreySkies]

Wouldn't it be great if dreams like this could become reality? Close down the oil fields, no more global warning.!


If you close down the oil fields your EV utopia is DOA...

You seem to forget that "fossil fuels" are still the primary fuel source for generating electricity, you know that "stuff" that charges your EV?

And.... wait for it.... provides the GAS for the on-board generator that charges your EV's battery for that extra range, the exact same range you would get with an ICE vehicle.

Don't feel bad I also fell for the EV hype, sold my Tesla after 1 year of ownership.

[jimjamuser]

Would that be those same scientists that proved so trustworthy during the pandemic?
Or would it be the ones that are forced to conform to the approved narrative in order to continue receiving the grants that allow them to stay employed?

Just not sure which of those you are referring to.
Ocean levels are measured all around the world by qualified scientists that would NOT risk their employment by engaging in "FAKE" science. You could NOT get each scientist in EVERY country around the world to enter a "CONSPIRACY" to manipulate data. Too many to POSSIBLY collude with.
......As far as the Pandemic is concerned, the scientists like Dr. Fauci were terribly and wrongly maligned for years. It was a total shame. The US lost about 150 million people because the evil propagandists (maybe Russian) wrongly told US citizens NOT to take their Covid vaccine, which was about the SAFEST vaccine in History. Those scientists should be everybody's heroes!

[jimjamuser]

Come on, people! The climate scam is not that hard to figure out. It is basic science. The earth is still in an ice age. We know this because most to the earth surface is desert or frozen. 400 ppm CO2 is near starvation level. 1200 ppm CO2 is optimal for biolife.

Haven't you figure out by now that everything you hear on the idiot box is a blatant lie?
The term "idiot box" is completely ambiguous. What or which idiot box? That could refer to 6 or 7 possibilities.

[jimjamuser]

If you close down the oil fields your EV utopia is DOA...

You seem to forget that "fossil fuels" are still the primary fuel source for generating electricity, you know that "stuff" that charges your EV?

And.... wait for it.... provides the GAS for the on-board generator that charges your EV's battery for that extra range, the exact same range you would get with an ICE vehicle.

Don't feel bad I also fell for the EV hype, sold my Tesla after 1 year of ownership.
Nobody wants to close down the oil fields (at least not completely in the US or anywhere). Because oil is NEEDED to make medications and products other than gas or diesel. The idea of EVs versus gas vehicles is that each e-vehicle produces zero pollution when it is moving versus the gas vehicle which produces a large amount when running. And both DO create pollution at the factories that produce them - no one is debating that. In the US (AT THE CURRENT TIME) the EV gets its energy from large stationary electrical generating plants. Which are much EASIER to have pollutant scrubbers for than the current catalytic converters on each car and truck. Today much of the US electrical energy comes from burning fossil fuel. But, in the FUTURE thee may be more SAFE NUCLEAR REACTORS and wind and solar (which is costing less and less).
........The idea is to use MUCH LESS oil by having more EVs. And they have MANY other advantages - they are practically maintenance FREE. EVs accelerate faster and brake better because they have a lower center of gravity. We have covered the air quality advantages. There is no wasted time on trips to the gas station. Range anxiety problems will be "a thing of the past" in a few years as charging stations double and triple. There are also other advantages!
......For curiosity sake........what was the problem with the Tesla? Most owners love them!

[justjim]

Ocean levels are measured all around the world by qualified scientists that would NOT risk their employment by engaging in "FAKE" science. You could NOT get each scientist in EVERY country around the world to enter a "CONSPIRACY" to manipulate data. Too many to POSSIBLY collude with.
......As far as the Pandemic is concerned, the scientists like Dr. Fauci were terribly and wrongly maligned for years. It was a total shame. The US lost about 150 million people because the evil propagandists (maybe Russian) wrongly told US citizens NOT to take their Covid vaccine, which was about the SAFEST vaccine in History. Those scientists should be everybody's heroes!

Your number of “150 million”
is way off but you make some other good points. We can all agree that the U.S. was totally unprepared for the pandemic. Hopefully we will learn and do better in the future.

[biker1]

No, being less than honest is always a bad move. Once you credibility is shot, there is no getting it back.

He was absolutely right about that! Masks, bottled water, gas, food, toilet paper - the public has shown over and over again that they cannot act responsibly.

[Bill14564]

No, being less than honest is always a bad move. Once you credibility is shot, there is no getting it back.

That isn't what I agreed with. The dishonesty is unforgivable. The expectation that people would act irresponsibly was right on.

[biker1]

And exactly how did people act irresponsibly ? Most shortages were due to supply chain issues. Expecting the worst from people? Very bad attitude to have.



That isn't what I agreed with. The dishonesty is unforgivable. The expectation that people would act irresponsibly was right on.

[jimjamuser]

Your number of “150 million”
is way off but you make some other good points. We can all agree that the U.S. was totally unprepared for the pandemic. Hopefully we will learn and do better in the future.
Thank you for pointing out MY mistake (without calling me a dumb jerk, which I was). The correct number of Covid deaths (to this point) in the US is 1 million, 138 thousand. 150million would be about 1/2 of the US population. Hope that NEVER happens in the future.

[Keefelane66]

Going from EV to Covid is about right for this forum.

[jimjamuser]

And exactly how did people act irresponsibly ? Most shortages were due to supply chain issues. Expecting the worst from people? Very bad attitude to have.
I don't "expect the worst from people". On most issues, over 50% of the people get things correct according to surveys. What I see as the problem in the US and probably other countries is that the leaders and the Supreme Court should have term limits. Unlimited terms leads to greed and collusion for many leaders (not all, of course, but the majority, in my opinion).