Electric Vehicle nightmare

[tvmurray]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

[Keefelane66]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars. there are 350 charging stations in Vermont according to drive electric Vermont with more coming on line monthly , Vermont has the highest per capital rate of public charging availability in the United States according to Drive Electric Vermont . I looked this up only because all my nieces and nephews ski in Vermont and drive their EV s up there from the Boston area. A simple search and you would have found a map with easy directions to all the chargers and no I don’t have one ,but facts are facts

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023 I think the post was more agenda seeking then about the difficulty in charging

[Caymus]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

Can Chevy Bolts use Tesla Stations?

[Two Bills]

Why would you accept a limited range car to tour with in the first place.
Surely the rental company or another location had a larger car more suitable to tour in?
You can barely get two people and purse in one of those things.

[BrianL99]

We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
.

A friend of mine bought a Tesla a few years ago (admittedly, chargers were more scarce then). When he finally got rid of it, it was primarily a result of his Therapist's advice. He told me he had "range anxiety" every day he owned the thing. It was so bad, he almost couldn't function.

He was an idiot to have bought the thing in the first place, knowing he spent most of his time "on the road".

Customer Satisfaction scores for EV's are abysmal. The major automakers have inventory backing up, because most everyone who wants an EV, has already bought one. Something has to give soon, as EV's simply aren't the answer.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-electric-vehicle-experience-evx-public-charging-study)

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla a few years ago (admittedly, chargers were more scarce then). When he finally got rid of it, it was primarily a result of his Therapist's advice. He told me he had "range anxiety" every day he owned the thing. It was so bad, he almost couldn't function.

He was an idiot to have bought the thing in the first place, knowing he spent most of his time "on the road".

Customer Satisfaction scores for EV's are abysmal. The major automakers have inventory backing up, because most everyone who wants an EV, has already bought one. Something has to give soon, as EV's simply aren't the answer.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-electric-vehicle-experience-evx-public-charging-study) the poster was complaining about Vermont , , a state that seems to be doing a good job of building charger stations , that’s all the post was about

[Topspinmo]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023


Yep, that why EV production down. They found out that most don’t want them and market drying up causing them lose even more money.

[Dusty_Star]

there are 350 charging stations in Vermont according to drive electric Vermont with more coming on line monthly , Vermont has the highest per capital rate of public charging availability in the United States according to Drive Electric Vermont . I looked this up only because all my nieces and nephews ski in Vermont and drive their EV s up there from the Boston area. A simple search and you would have found a map with easy directions to all the chargers and no I don’t have one ,but facts are facts
Do your nieces & nephews drive Teslas? I wish them good luck. There is a difference between Teslas & Chevy Bolts. Additionally Vermont has steep inclines & cold weather, both of which affect EVs. I found independent complaints on Reddit about the Chevy Bolt range with others claiming 160 mile range. I also found the Chevy Bolt uses a type 2 charger & from Chargepoint, this: 'These locations typically have Level 2 stations that add about 25 miles of Range Per Hour' - which is incredibly damaging. 25 miles for an hour of charging, is that less than a half mile per minute? (This was specific to the Bolt & to Level 2 public chargers). It seems to me that the only use for a Bolt would be to charge it at home (overnight for about 10 hours) & then go pretty much nowhere. Hopefully work, shopping & doctors are all close by. It appears that there is an optional fast charger for the Bolt, but of course that option costs more money. So yes, all in all, I believe the OP was perfectly miserable.

[Dusty_Star]

It seems to me that the only use for a Bolt would be to charge it at home (overnight for about 10 hours) & then go pretty much nowhere. Hopefully work, shopping & doctors are all close by.

P.S. I would like to thank you guys for making me do the research, I had no clue the Bolt was so gruesomely awful.

[Battlebasset]

EV solves no problem I have now, and creates more. Until the range, availability/functionality of charging stations, and reduced reliance on China for battery raw materials arrives and has been solidly in place for at least 10 years, I'm not giving up my ICE. Could be interested in a hybrid, but am concerned about the complexity of two drive systems.

Not against EV. I have an EV golf cart. Works great for the Villages with no gas/exhaust smell, noise, and instant power availability. Comes home every night with at least a 50% charge left, and full charge by morning.

But for my vehicle that I want to jump in and drive halfway across the country and not think about it? ICE is the only way to go now.

[Keefelane66]

The first EV by GM was extremely popular as a commuter vehicle which it was designed for. They developed leading edge battery which they sold to Cheveron Oil and shelved.
A documentary was made “ Who killed the Electric Car”
Available on TUBI for free other streaming sources $3.59 to $3.99
GM EV1 1996-199….

[BrianL99]

the poster was complaining about Vermont , , a state that seems to be doing a good job of building charger stations , that’s all the post was about



Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.


It was?

[shut the front door]

There's a reason the automakers are pushing back against Biden.
"In a public letter to President Biden, 3,882 car dealers spread across the country are asking that his administration slow down its proposed regulations mandating the production and distribution of electric vehicles."
thestreet.com (https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/car-dealers-biden-electric-vehicle-adoption)

They interviewed the dealership owner who drafted the letter and he said his dealerships sold 2 EVs last month and a couple hundred non evs. The lots are clogged with cars that nobody wants and it's costing dealers millions in their floor plan interest payments.

[Blueblaze]

I wonder if you could have done the trip in the same amount of time without all the hour-long layovers and charger panic with a 20mph Yamaha golf cart. Of course, I doubt that Vermont has any more golf cart lanes than they do charging stations.

Which car rental company did you use that would force an EV on you? I'd like to avoid that company!

[Dusty_Star]

I wonder if you could have done the trip in the same amount of time without all the hour-long layovers and charger panic with a 20mph Yamaha golf cart. Of course, I doubt that Vermont has any more golf cart lanes than they do charging stations.

Which car rental company did you use that would force an EV on you? I'd like to avoid that company!

Plus too cold in a golf cart. Brrr.

[rustyp]

I wonder how many people live in a house without the ability to plug in - ever. Can your house be upgraded to plug in ? How much ? I remember odd even days for parking on the street. It's a bluff meant to move the ball forward some. Necessity (real or artificial) is the motherhood of invention ! How about this one - want your 19 year old college freshman granddaughter pulling into a charging station at midnight to make it home ?

[BrianL99]

There's a reason the automakers are pushing back against Biden.
"In a public letter to President Biden, 3,882 car dealers spread across the country are asking that his administration slow down its proposed regulations mandating the production and distribution of electric vehicles."
thestreet.com (https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/car-dealers-biden-electric-vehicle-adoption)

They interviewed the dealership owner who drafted the letter and he said his dealerships sold 2 EVs last month and a couple hundred non evs. The lots are clogged with cars that nobody wants and it's costing dealers millions in their floor plan interest payments.

The company I work for has 17 new car dealerships. I can assure you, what you quoted is exactly the case. Everyone who wanted an EV has bought one. The rest of them are sitting in dealer inventories or manufacturers lots, costing a small fortune, due to interest rates.

If something isn't done about CAFE and the governments insistence on EV's, the auto industry is in for a world of hurt. Hybrids are the answer, but the Greenies want EV's.

[Battlebasset]

The company I work for has 17 new car dealerships. I can assure you, what you quoted is exactly the case. Everyone who wanted an EV has bought one. The rest of them are sitting in dealer inventories or manufacturers lots, costing a small fortune, due to interest rates.

If something isn't done about CAFE and the governments insistence on EV's, the auto industry is in for a world of hurt. Hybrids are the answer, but the Greenies want EV's.

Tell them to put a trailer hitch on each one, and one of those transport shelves that connects to the hitch. Then, a gas generator. Instant hybrid!

[Arctic Fox]

When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.

I can't picture a reputable car rental outlet that would have only one car available.

Was this a national rental company or a mom'n'pop operation? If the latter then I would suggest it is a case of "renter beware".

[Pugchief]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla a few years ago (admittedly, chargers were more scarce then). When he finally got rid of it, it was primarily a result of his Therapist's advice. He told me he had "range anxiety" every day he owned the thing. It was so bad, he almost couldn't function.

He was an idiot to have bought the thing in the first place, knowing he spent most of his time "on the road".

Customer Satisfaction scores for EV's are abysmal. The major automakers have inventory backing up, because most everyone who wants an EV, has already bought one. Something has to give soon, as EV's simply aren't the answer.



Your friend wasn't an idiot for buying an EV, He was an idiot for buying an EV given his situation.

I bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2019 UpNorth. I had a 220v 14-50 outlet installed in the garage which was convenient, but proved unnecessary. I love, love, love my Tesla. BUT-BUT-BUT I rarely drive more than 75 miles in a day, and I have a garage to plug in overnight. I don't even need to charge every day. With a 250 mile capacity, a recommended 80% charge to 200 is generally enough for 4 days. Then I plug in overnight (even a regular 110v outlet is enough) and am back to 200 the next morning.

Yes, if you drive 200+ miles a day, or don't have a garage, you are an idiot to buy an EV.

I obviously also have a garage here and rarely drive more than 50 miles in a day in TV, so I just bought another Tesla for Florida. Standard 110v outlet already in the garage works fine. Wife has an ICE vehicle if we need to take a road trip. Tesla is awesome IF you are the right fit for it.

Whoever asked: Tesla has a different plug than all the others, but they sell a converters on Amazon for either to the other for less than $20.

To the OP who got an EV from a rental agency: Just say no. If you reserved a regular ICE auto and they failed to provide one, I would write a nasty Google and TripAdvisor review, copy corporate, and go to another agency. EVs are not suitable for travel.

And lastly, IMHO, Climate Change is more about control than the climate, and anybody who gaslights you into thinking EVs will solve more problems than they create is not your friend. That said, EVs are great IF you are the right fit.

[bopat]

There's a ton of chargers in Montpelier, VT, and Vermont in general.

Just a moment... (https://www.plugshare.com/)
The Plugshare app can also help out.

The Chevy Bolt has a CCS plug and a J1772 compatible adapter. Plug that into Plugshare and you can see where to charge.
Chevy also makes the Tesla adapter, if your car had one of those you could have charged at a Tesla charger, those are everywhere. You can see for yourself on the Plugshare website, picking Tesla, Tesla (fast) and J1772 as well as the native Bolt CCS/J1772.

There's a reason why all the automakers in North America are adopting the Tesla charging ecosystem (More automakers plug into Tesla'''s EV charging network | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/more-automakers-plug-into-teslas-ev-charging-network-2023-11-06/)), they're one of the big reasons Tesla adoption is so high vs. other EV's. (Tesla'''s rivals scrap for thin slices of US EV sales | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-rivals-scrap-thin-slices-us-ev-sales-2023-09-27/)).

Also, the Tesla Model Y is the biggest selling car in the world (The Tesla Model Y Is The Best-Selling Car In The World | GreenCars (https://www.greencars.com/news/the-tesla-model-y-is-the-best-selling-car-in-the-world)).

Sorry to hear your trip wasn't very good, I'd blame that mostly on the car rental place. They shouldn't have given you an EV without you fully understanding it. And the Bolt EV isn't a very good car and hasn't sold very well. I wouldn't take one if someone gave it to me (Chevrolet Bolt EV Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/chevrolet/bolt-ev))

[Dusty_Star]

....
Hybrids are the answer, but the Greenies want EV's.

I doubt hybrids are the current answer: Consumer Reports: Reliability

EVs have 79% more problems than ICE vehicles, according to CR’s survey. CR excludes problems with commercial CD fast chargers from the report. Your browser is not supported | freep.com (https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2023/11/29/consumer-reports-reliability-survey-electric-vehicles-hybrids/71723557007/#:~:text=PHEVs%20had%20146%25%20as%20many,PHEVs%20 are%20all%20very%20reliable.%22)

[bopat]

I doubt hybrids are the current answer: Consumer Reports: Reliability

EVs have 79% more problems than ICE vehicles, according to CR’s survey. CR excludes problems with commercial CD fast chargers from the report. Your browser is not supported | freep.com (https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2023/11/29/consumer-reports-reliability-survey-electric-vehicles-hybrids/71723557007/#:~:text=PHEVs%20had%20146%25%20as%20many,PHEVs%20 are%20all%20very%20reliable.%22)



From the article, "“The problems with internal combustion engines are mostly sorted,” Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports senior director of testing, told me."

I blew coffee out my nose at that point I laughed so hard!

And further down:
"The Ford F-150 Lightning and Rivian R1T fared poorly with CR readers."
"Tesla, despite its own well-documented quality issues, has a pretty low bar to clear when it finally begins delivering meaningful numbers of its long awaited Cybertruck."

What does the data say? So CR Readers rated the Ford and Rivian poor, but what about the data for Tesla? Hmmm....

[BrianL99]

And lastly, IMHO, Climate Change is more about control than the climate, and anybody who gaslights you into thinking EVs will solve more problems than they create is not your friend. That said, EVs are great IF you are the right fit.


There's a novelty. An EV owner who recognizes the truth. You're 100% right. They have their place and they surely aren't for everyone. For the right person, under the right circumstances, they can be a great solution.

[biker1]

What do you mean "what about the data for Tesla"? They just started delivering the Cybertruck - there is no data. Regarding the rest of their lineup, they are in the middle of the pack with regard to initial quality issues.



What does the data say? So CR Readers rated the Ford and Rivian poor, but what about the data for Tesla? Hmmm....

[BrianL99]

From the article, "“The problems with internal combustion engines are mostly sorted,” Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports senior director of testing, told me."

I blew coffee out my nose at that point I laughed so hard!



The day the government stops interfering with the free marketing of automobiles, is the day that EV's revert to what they always were ... glorified golf carts.

They are an impractical solution, to a grossly exaggerated problem. A fraud, perpetuated upon another fraud as its basis. First you have to buy into the global warming (now "climate change") nonsense, then you can buy right into the so-called emissions problem and the supposed fossil fuel availability issue.

I owned a 1970 Pontiac GTO. About 300 horsepower and it got about 15 mpg on the highway.

My 10 year old, 365 HP Jaguar, gets 30 mpg on the highway and my 335 horsepower BMW gets 34 mpg on the highway.

If we put the same resources into ICE as we do EV's, we'd have cars that get 100 mpg, with emissions below detectible range.

[Arctic Fox]

If we put the same resources into ICE as we do EV's, we'd have cars that get 100 mpg, with emissions below detectible range.

So why haven't the manufacturers done that?

Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

[Velvet]

Sorry, I can’t imagine myself looking for charge stations, it’s enough to look for, gas stations as it is on long trips. With all the wonderful things that EVs can do, like the high end Teslas, it is still not worth it for me. I’ll wait till there is enough infrastructure to support EVs without the inconvenience and the expenses associated with them now. At the rate they’re going it might not be in my lifetime.

[EastCoastDawg]

I owned a 1970 Pontiac GTO. About 300 horsepower and it got about 15 mpg on the highway. My 10 year old, 365 HP Jaguar, gets 30 mpg on the highway and my 335 horsepower BMW gets 34 mpg on the highway.
If we put the same resources into ICE as we do EV's, we'd have cars that get 100 mpg, with emissions below detectible range.

So why haven't the manufacturers done that? Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

Since the Big Three haven't managed to do it in the 125 years that they (and their predecessors) have been building cars in the USA then I suggest that they stand back and let The Villages Woodworking Club tackle the problem.

Currently the average MPG for a car in the USA is 25 so they only have to quadruple that and BrianL99 will be proved right.

[dhdallas]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

They are most certainly NOT a joke. Electric vehicles are the ideal SECOND vehicle used just for shorter commutes & errands AND if you own your own home, so you can just plug it in at night. They are a terrible choice for a vehicle to be used for vacations, sightseeing trips and long commutes due to the lack of reliable charging infrastructure. Anyone who pays attention to the EV trends knows this. I remember in the late 1950's when we would go on family vacations up into Ontario and we carried cans of gasoline with us because no stations were open at night. The EV charger infrastructure will improve just as now there are 24/7 gas stations everywhere and no one has to carry extra gas with them. You should have refused the EV rental and gone elsewhere. The Chevy Bolt has one of the worst distant ranges of almost any other EV. Many other EV's have twice the range of the BOLT. A great many car dealers will rent you a vehicle if no dedicated rental business has one for you. You cannot make a blanket statement that all EV's are a joke & are crap. You made the mistake of renting the EV with the shortest range & used it for a purpose that it was not designed to do.

[MorTech]

EVs make some sense for retirees in Florida.
Just get a Corolla LE and don't spend a second thinking about range or cost.

[Topspinmo]

The day the government stops interfering with the free marketing of automobiles, is the day that EV's revert to what they always were ... glorified golf carts.

They are an impractical solution, to a grossly exaggerated problem. A fraud, perpetuated upon another fraud as its basis. First you have to buy into the global warming (now "climate change") nonsense, then you can buy right into the so-called emissions problem and the supposed fossil fuel availability issue.

I owned a 1970 Pontiac GTO. About 300 horsepower and it got about 15 mpg on the highway.

My 10 year old, 365 HP Jaguar, gets 30 mpg on the highway and my 335 horsepower BMW gets 34 mpg on the highway.

If we put the same resources into ICE as we do EV's, we'd have cars that get 100 mpg, with emissions below detectible range.

Ok, so let’s compare model t to to 50 ford what you doing. Another thing 70 GTO was rated at 365 HP out of 455 cu in engine. Plus the 70 GTO could be driven for life time, sure you have to overhaul along way, but person with average skills could maintain it. Jag be lucky to last 15 years BMW won’t fair much more due to outrageous expense to repair unless there garage queens.

‘We”. are driven by sales and and profit. At this present time IMO only top 30% at most can afford high end vehicles electric or hybrids. Tesla when compared to other EVs manufacturers are decades ahead in infrastructure and technology. Plus Tesla prices come down not up like competitors. IMO Tesla the only serious EV manufacturer. Others are copycats like the big fins flash of late 50s.

[Garywt]

If I had booked a non EV and they didn’t have one I definitely would have looked elsewhere. Most airports have multiple rental agencies. Whether it is my cars or my golf carts, I have no desire to own any EV’s. I like my Ford F350 just fine.

[BrianL99]

So why haven't the manufacturers done that?

Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

Because the government is investing billions into advancing electric technology for automobiles and zero for ICE vehicles. Like everyone else, the auto manufacturers have to go where the money is.

[biker1]

The fallacy of your thinking is that it would be possible to increase ICE efficiency by 3-4x to create typical ICE cars that could achieve 100 MPG (up from 25-30 MPG for a typical car today). There are physics involved. ICE engines experience small increases in efficiency with time because they are approaching the limits of what can be obtained. Sophisticated engine control systems have been used for years. The typical ICE vehicles are about 20% efficient and the remaining 80% of the fuel's energy is wasted as heat and other inefficiencies in the car systems such as the need to run a cooling system. The pressure to meet CAFE standards is immense and all automakers work like hell to obtain ever decreasing increases in efficiency. Why do you think 0W-16 oils are now being used? While there are some novel ICE designs out there with higher efficiencies, I don't see a lot of interest in automakers adopting them. Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines but VW put a stain on that technology, which was never very popular to begin with in the US. Other changes to cars such as advanced materials to reduce overall vehicle weight, and therefore increase efficiency, are certainly possible but they are also applicable to EVs and are typically expensive. Electric motors are very efficient, electric power plants utilize fuels much more efficiently than an ICE engine in a car is capable of doing (new generation of natural gas power plants are up to 60% efficient but older plants are more like 40% efficient), high voltage power lines transmit power with very high efficiency, and charging systems in EVs have small inefficiencies. Essentially, it is more efficient to burn fossil fuels in a large power plant and power EVs than burn them in large numbers of ICE engines. The difference is about 2-3x.

Because the government is investing billions into advancing electric technology for automobiles and zero for ICE vehicles. Like everyone else, the auto manufacturers have to go where the money is.

[Arctic Fox]

So why haven't the manufacturers done that? Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

Because the government is investing billions into advancing electric technology for automobiles and zero for ICE vehicles. Like everyone else, the auto manufacturers have to go where the money is.

Most major breakthroughs (and quadrupling the fuel economy of a car would be a major breakthrough) come from private companies and individuals, not from the government.

Throwing money at a problem is seldom the solution. Committing thinking people to it often is.

The returns would come from being the only company to make a car that has 4x the mpg of all the other manufacturers.

However, they've had 125 years in which to do it, and haven't achieved anything more than incremental increases, so it would be safest to accept that it isn't going to happen.

[Maker]

Biden signed another executive order to eliminate all coal fired power plants.
Think about that. It will reduce the available power generation across the entire country. Any replacement power will need to come from natural gas, solar, or wind.
Using natural gas will drive up the cost of all oil derived energy. Building new power plants is expensive. Solar and wind are not reliable as supplying the base load needed to run the country. More EVs will create more demand - a lot of that at night - when wind and solar produces nothing.

[biker1]

The date is 2035 and was probably going to happen anyway for economic reasons. Coal has been on a steep decline, because natural gas is lower in cost, and less than 20% of our electricity currently comes from coal. Twenty years ago 50% of electricity came from coal.

Biden signed another executive order to eliminate all coal fired power plants.
Think about that. It will reduce the available power generation across the entire country. Any replacement power will need to come from natural gas, solar, or wind.
Using natural gas will drive up the cost of all oil derived energy. Building new power plants is expensive. Solar and wind are not reliable as supplying the base load needed to run the country. More EVs will create more demand - a lot of that at night - when wind and solar produces nothing.

[Byte1]

EVs are still a "novelty." Hmmm, EVs were available in the late 1800's and were a "novelty" then and still are. I keep hearing how great they are, but they still cannot compare to fossil fuel powered vehicles......period. When someone attempts to compare the two, the folks pro-EV have to make excuses. Always excuses but eventually have to admit that they have their flaws. Should EVs be "mandated" by the federal government? They aren't ready yet.
ICEs are still better than or equal to EVs in almost every way. If the EVs were so great then logical citizens would jump on the opportunity to own one.
EVs are more expensive, even with tax credit from the Feds. Middle to lower level earners can't really consider the expense.
EVs are NOT long range vehicles.
EVs take take a minimum of 20 minutes (usually hours) to refuel. Not good for long commuting or trips where time is a premium.
EVs are not conducive to efficient operation in harsh climates.

ICE vehicles are less expensive
ICE vehicles are preferable for long commutes
ICE vehicles can be refueled in five or ten minutes. Maybe fifteen if waiting in line. EVs a minimum of 20 mins and at least 20 mins added for every vehicle in line ahead of it.
ICE vehicles work better in harsh weather.
ICE vehicles can be refueled on the road and do not need to be towed when they run out of energy/fuel.
ICE vehicles have more fuel options; gasoline, diesel, natural gas, hydrogen, alcohol derivatives, recycled cooking oil, etc.
EVs are being FORCED on us. Why? Because of the green agenda. EVs don't pollute the air, ICE vehicles do. So do cows, but we still raise them for consumption. So does mankind but we don't eliminate humans.
I could live with owning an EV in the Villages, but some folks have to work for a living. If I was still employed, an EV would be at the bottom of my list of transportation methods. Thank goodness I am too old to be around long enough for an EV to be forced on me. To me, an EV is like owning a motorcycle, boat or a horse. Just a "novelty" for recreation.
But, to keep this related to the OP/subject, if a rental company tried to pawn an EV on me when I needed a reliable mode of transportation, I would have sought out a different rental agency.

[biker1]

EVs are hardly a novelty. The best selling car in the world, YTD, is a Tesla Model Y. Nobody is forcing an EV on you. ICE cars will still be around for probably the next 20-30 years, or more. You might not find a lot of choices in new ICE cars in 10-15 years or so but the used market will still be there. Buy what you want. There is no need to try to convince others what to do or try to explain your actions.

EVs are still a "novelty." Hmmm, EVs were available in the late 1800's and were a "novelty" then and still are. I keep hearing how great they are, but they still cannot compare to fossil fuel powered vehicles......period. When someone attempts to compare the two, the folks pro-EV have to make excuses. Always excuses but eventually have to admit that they have their flaws. Should EVs be "mandated" by the federal government? They aren't ready yet.
ICEs are still better than or equal to EVs in almost every way. If the EVs were so great then logical citizens would jump on the opportunity to own one.
EVs are more expensive, even with tax credit from the Feds. Middle to lower level earners can't really consider the expense.
EVs are NOT long range vehicles.
EVs take take a minimum of 20 minutes (usually hours) to refuel. Not good for long commuting or trips where time is a premium.
EVs are not conducive to efficient operation in harsh climates.

ICE vehicles are less expensive
ICE vehicles are preferable for long commutes
ICE vehicles can be refueled in five or ten minutes. Maybe fifteen if waiting in line. EVs a minimum of 20 mins and at least 20 mins added for every vehicle in line ahead of it.
ICE vehicles work better in harsh weather.
ICE vehicles can be refueled on the road and do not need to be towed when they run out of energy/fuel.
ICE vehicles have more fuel options; gasoline, diesel, natural gas, hydrogen, alcohol derivatives, recycled cooking oil, etc.
EVs are being FORCED on us. Why? Because of the green agenda. EVs don't pollute the air, ICE vehicles do. So do cows, but we still raise them for consumption. So does mankind but we don't eliminate humans.
I could live with owning an EV in the Villages, but some folks have to work for a living. If I was still employed, an EV would be at the bottom of my list of transportation methods. Thank goodness I am too old to be around long enough for an EV to be forced on me. To me, an EV is like owning a motorcycle, boat or a horse. Just a "novelty" for recreation.
But, to keep this related to the OP/subject, if a rental company tried to pawn an EV on me when I needed a reliable mode of transportation, I would have sought out a different rental agency.

[Eg_cruz]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.
Agree

[JRcorvette]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

I would be really ****ed if the rental company tried to push an EV on me. Please tell us all what rental company that was so we can all AVOID them! Thanks

[ThirdOfFive]

It doesn't get much attention, but the House of Representatives will most likely be voting this week (Tuesday, probably) on the Choice in Automobile Retail Sales (CARS) act, which of passed would disallow pending federal regulations targeting gas-powered vehicles and well as prohibiting future EV mandates.

The support for this appears pretty broad. The Independent Women's Voice website had some interesting numbers on this: "Six in 10 Americans say the price tag of electric vehicles (EVs) is too high. Polling data suggests the majority of Americans won’t ever buy EVs due to their vast shortcomings. As a result, EV adoption rates remain low. In 2022, EVs accounted for just 5.8% of all the 13.8 million new vehicles sold in the U.S. This is attributed to a limited network of EV charging stations, fueling and charging inefficiencies, and the forced nature of EV adoption that isn’t reflective of market demand." They are certainly alone in this.

Should be interesting. Will saner heads prevail?

[Bay Kid]

I'll keep my hybrid Toyota with a range of 550 miles. If you gave me an EV I would sell it tomorrow.

[Toymeister]

I'll keep my hybrid Toyota with a range of 550 miles. If you gave me an EV I would sell it tomorrow.

Ill keep my plug in hybrid toyota. My last tank gave me 1,763 miles. If you gave me a hybrid i would sell it today for a plug in hybrid.

[Bill14564]

I'll keep my hybrid Toyota with a range of 550 miles. If you gave me an EV I would sell it tomorrow.

I loved my Prius!

[Bill14564]

...

They aren't ready yet.
ICEs are still better than or equal to EVs in almost every way. If the EVs were so great then logical citizens would jump on the opportunity to own one.
EVs are more expensive, even with tax credit from the Feds. Middle to lower level earners can't really consider the expense.
...

Most of your points show your bias and are easily debated. Since those debates have already covered pages in other threads, I won't rehash them here.

On the few points above:

EVs are very much ready today as shown by the number of happy owners driving them today.

Logical citizens will utilize EVs where they make sense. Other posters in this thread have explained why an EV is the perfect choice for their needs. A PHEV would be ideal for my next vehicle and a hybrid was ideal for my previous vehicle. But yes, for those who need/choose to travel long distances, electric-only vehicles are not the best choice.

EVs are not more expensive when comparing apples to apples. Yes, the Tesla is more expensive than a Toyota Corolla but the Tesla is a more luxurious vehicle than the Corolla. Compare the Tesla with a BMW and the price difference goes away. Add in real-world maintenance costs and the EV might even be less expensive than the ICE vehicle. Middle lower earners cannot afford the Tesla but neither can they afford the BMW - apples to apples again.

EVs are likely to be the vehicle of the future. We may not be in the early-adopter stage now but we are not far from it. The gasoline infrastructure took decades to become what it is today, the EV infrastructure is expanding quickly. There may be reasons not to buy an EV today but those reasons may not hold up in the near future.

[Dusty_Star]

The best selling car in the world, and the US, is a Tesla Model Y.

Accordint to Statista the best selling car in the world was a Toyota Corolla, followed by the RAV4, Tesla Model Y is in the top 10, but not the best selling car in the world, or just the USA. (In the USA the top sellers are pickup trucks, the Ford F series & the Chevy Silverado, but just looking at cars, that would be Toyota again; The RAV4, Camry, & Honda CRV.)

Best-selling car models worldwide 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/#:~:text=Best%2Dselling%20car%20models%20worldwide %20in%202022&text=The%20Toyota%20Corolla%20was%20the,from%2066. 7%20million%20in%202021).

Access to this page has been denied (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/)

[Dusty_Star]

Accordint to Statista the best selling car in the world was a Toyota Corolla, followed by the RAV4, Tesla Model Y is in the top 10, but not the best selling car in the world, or just the USA. (In the USA the top sellers are pickup trucks, the Ford F series & the Chevy Silverado, but just looking at cars, that would be Toyota again; The RAV4, Camry, & Honda CRV.)

Best-selling car models worldwide 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/#:~:text=Best%2Dselling%20car%20models%20worldwide %20in%202022&text=The%20Toyota%20Corolla%20was%20the,from%2066. 7%20million%20in%202021).

Access to this page has been denied (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/)

For my second link it says Access denied, but clicking on the link works.

[JMintzer]

EVs are hardly a novelty. The best selling car in the world, and the US, is a Tesla Model Y. Nobody is forcing an EV on you. ICE cars will still be around for probably the next 20-30 years, or more. You might not find a lot of choices in new ICE cars in 10-15 years or so but the used market will still be there. Buy what you want. There is no need to try to convince others what to do or try to explain your actions.

That's a useless stat...

Yes, when compared to the Toyota Corolla, they might sell more Tesla Model Ys, but when you add in all of the other manufacturer's vehicles comparable to the Corolla, it isn't close... Even when you add in the other EVs comparable to the Model Y...

[Dusty_Star]

That's a useless stat...

Yes, when compared to the Toyota Corolla, they might sell more Tesla Model Ys, but when you add in all of the other manufacturer's vehicles comparable to the Corolla, it isn't close... Even when you add in the other EVs comparable to the Model Y...

Excellent point.

[Blueblaze]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

EV vs ICE arguments aside, I will ask the question again.

tvmurray, Please tell me: WHICH RENTAL AGENCY FORCED YOU TO TAKE AN EV?

I REALLY want to avoid that company, since I will be renting a car this Christmas to drive back from Chicago!

[biker1]

No, it's not.

Excellent point.

[bopat]

Accordint to Statista the best selling car in the world was a Toyota Corolla, followed by the RAV4, Tesla Model Y is in the top 10, but not the best selling car in the world, or just the USA. (In the USA the top sellers are pickup trucks, the Ford F series & the Chevy Silverado, but just looking at cars, that would be Toyota again; The RAV4, Camry, & Honda CRV.)

Best-selling car models worldwide 2022 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/#:~:text=Best%2Dselling%20car%20models%20worldwide %20in%202022&text=The%20Toyota%20Corolla%20was%20the,from%2066. 7%20million%20in%202021).

Access to this page has been denied (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/)


That's 2022. The link I posted was 2023 so far. First sentence in the article linked:
"For the first time ever, the best-selling car in the world is electric. As of this writing in July 2023, the Tesla Model Y has just edged out the Toyota Corolla for the top spot in new car sales worldwide."

[Topspinmo]

Hertz at some places renting cars half charged, and no Tesla adapter. So you immediately have to look for charging station (CS). With tesla CSs out of equation for the inferior brands you now have mileage anxiety syndrome (MAS). Plus they are renting EVs to people with NO experience with EVs and in some cases that all they got to rent.

[Topspinmo]

EV vs ICE arguments aside, I will ask the question again.

tvmurray, Please tell me: WHICH RENTAL AGENCY FORCED YOU TO TAKE AN EV?

I REALLY want to avoid that company, since I will be renting a car this Christmas to drive back from Chicago!


I bet it was hertz’s????

[Topspinmo]

Too bad HDs don’t have the EV craze. I would enjoy not hearing all the noise:BigApplause::BigApplause:

[mrf0151]

It is interesting that when you go on car rental sites, the EV vehicles are renting at a MUCH MUCH lower daily rate compared to gas vehicle rentals. That is all you need to know.

[BrianL99]

Too bad HDs don’t have the EV craze. I would enjoy not hearing all the noise:BigApplause::BigApplause:

They do, but I believe Harley-Davidson has spun off their electric motorcycles into a different company called LiveWire.

[BrianL99]

It is interesting that when you go on car rental sites, the EV vehicles are renting at a MUCH MUCH lower daily rate compared to gas vehicle rentals. That is all you need to know.

Tesla joins GM, Ford in slowing EV factory ramp as demand fears spread | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-joins-gm-ford-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-demand-fears-spread-2023-10-19/)

Why automakers are dialing back EV production goals - Marketplace (https://www.marketplace.org/2023/11/02/ev-demand-production-reality-check/)

Car dealers say they can’t sell EVs, tell Biden to slow their rollout | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/car-dealers-say-they-cant-sell-evs-tell-biden-to-slow-their-rollout/)

Access Denied (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/why-dealers-say-ev-sales-have-slowed.html)

[biker1]

I recently rented a car and several of the car rental companies offered EVs, typically Kia Niro EVs, at lower cost than ICE cars. I found that interesting. I didn't opt for the EV over concerns about charging stations and what my recharging options would be. For example, do they include a cord with the car if you have access to a 120V outlet? There was a total lack of information on the webpages and I didn't want to waste my time calling. If Teslas were offered I may have gone that route because their navigation system will take you to the Tesla Superchargers.

I would be really ****ed if the rental company tried to push an EV on me. Please tell us all what rental company that was so we can all AVOID them! Thanks

[JMintzer]

No, it's not.

Then refute it...

[biker1]

Actually, you made some strawman argument. YTD, the Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the world. Through Q2, it was the best selling car in the US (just edged out by RAV4 in the Q3 YTD numbers). Again, I was responding to the comment about EVs being a novelty. They aren't.

And I was responding to your "stat" that Tesla Model Ys were the #1 car sold... (even tho they aren't...) I can keep up just fine...

[Robbb]

So why haven't the manufacturers done that?

Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

Well the new Prius plug hybrid gets 91 mpg, is that good enough?

[tophcfa]

Well the new Prius plug hybrid gets 91 mpg, is that good enough?

If it has 4WD, good ground clearance, and can tow a heavy load it would be good enough.

[Robbb]

They do, but I believe Harley-Davidson has spun off their electric motorcycles into a different company called LiveWire.

I'm a biker and have ridden the LiveWire many times. At best its a novelty that will never appeal to the motorcycling community. Never.

[jswirs]

EV solves no problem I have now, and creates more. Until the range, availability/functionality of charging stations, and reduced reliance on China for battery raw materials arrives and has been solidly in place for at least 10 years, I'm not giving up my ICE. Could be interested in a hybrid, but am concerned about the complexity of two drive systems.

Not against EV. I have an EV golf cart. Works great for the Villages with no gas/exhaust smell, noise, and instant power availability. Comes home every night with at least a 50% charge left, and full charge by morning.

But for my vehicle that I want to jump in and drive halfway across the country and not think about it? ICE is the only way to go now.
We have a chrysler Pacifica hybrid and we LOVE it. Driving around town, which is what we mostly do, is well within the battery range of about 33 miles. Plug it in over night and you have another full range of 33 miles on battery. Range of about 550 miles on gas and battery. Batteries are warranted to last at least 10 years, but are expected to last the life of the vehicle. Works for us, it is a great compromise of battery and ICE. Plus, a full size mini van allows lots of passengers / cargo.

[Blackbird45]

Like it or not EVs are going to take over.
Today’s investments in the EV world are slated to improving milage, charging speed, and access to charging stations. Musk just signed a contract for $100 million with BP to supply their stations with his chargers in the U.S., plus taxpayer dollars are being spent to place charging stations on our public roads. Once people get use to the convenance while on a highway just being able to pull into a rest stop and fill up while taking care of business or waking up in the morning with their cars fully charged at home the demand will start to surge again. And let’s take a look at the profits, EVs are much less expensive to produce then ICE vehicles. Between solar, wind and nuclear, electricity is also less expensive than producing and delivering fuel. Maybe because the last five years of my career was negotiating contracts, I see everything through the lens of dollars. But to bolster my position unless there is a request most all new homes are being built with electric heat, stoves and ovens. Why because it’s less expensive than running a second fuel sore. At the end of the day maybe not as fast as expected but EVs will dominate the market and the conversion will have nothing to do with climate change, just follow the money.

[Two Bills]

EV's are very popular in UK, and given the size of the country, quite practical.
We are never more than 70 miles from the sea, and one end to the other is just over 600 miles, which, with a bigger EV, is a one charge journey.
Plenty of public charging points.
Even our rural local supermarket has two, and they make no charge (yet!), and you very seldom see both points used at same time.
Personally I will never have one due to the exorbitant cost of purchase, plus wife and I travel a lot in UK and Europe, and could not be bothered with all the logistics of finding charging points.
It's horses for courses really.
If our world was solely TV I could see the point of one, but with the distances of city to city travel in US, I would never have anything but an ICE vehicle.
Just cannot understand the TOTV posters who are so opposed to EV's.
No one is forcing them to buy.
The majority will be long dead and gone, even if such a time comes.
Just stick with your ICE vehicle, and let those who want electric sort out any problems with them.

Sorry for monologue, but freezing and raining cats and dogs here at the moment, so a bit bored.
Probably do an essay on roundabouts tomorrow, or divulge the best cheesecake recipe in the world! :icon_wink:

[Susan1717]

I have no desire ever for an electric car. Most of the family I drive to visit have zero capability to charge a car. I don’t believe it’s better for our earth either.

[Southwest737]

This post sounds like a work of fiction.

[Ele201]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla a few years ago (admittedly, chargers were more scarce then). When he finally got rid of it, it was primarily a result of his Therapist's advice. He told me he had "range anxiety" every day he owned the thing. It was so bad, he almost couldn't function.

He was an idiot to have bought the thing in the first place, knowing he spent most of his time "on the road".

Customer Satisfaction scores for EV's are abysmal. The major automakers have inventory backing up, because most everyone who wants an EV, has already bought one. Something has to give soon, as EV's simply aren't the answer.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-electric-vehicle-experience-evx-public-charging-study)

It may be that electric vehicles have had their heyday snd reached the peak of their popularity. I read that slower demand has some Tesla investors concerned.

I have no interest in buying an EV, and for some reason I don’t fully trust them. But I have enjoyed riding in them a few times.

[TeresaE]

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of ours out in California. Flew into San Francisco, was given an EV and couldn’t find any charging stations for his vehicle. Apparently, charging stations are not uniform. They’ve got to be specific to the vehicle manufacturer.

[tvmurray]

I can't picture a reputable car rental outlet that would have only one car available.

Was this a national rental company or a mom'n'pop operation? If the latter then I would suggest it is a case of "renter beware".

It was Dollar/Hertz Rental, but in their defense many other companies had a sign up that said no cars available. Also when I took it to another airport they exchanged with no questions after my story.

[Blackbird45]

I have no desire ever for an electric car. Most of the family I drive to visit have zero capability to charge a car. I don’t believe it’s better for our earth either.

Susan if you're young enough you might have no choice ICE will become obsolete. Again, this has nothing to do with the environment. If it did there would be a more sustained effort for hydrogen vehicles. This all has to do with profits. This is a new market; global warming is just a cover story. If your concern is charging station, once the money starts rolling in, you'll be tripping over them, they will be everywhere.

[TeresaE]

Like it or not EVs are going to take over.
Today’s investments in the EV world are slated to improving milage, charging speed, and access to charging stations. Musk just signed a contract for $100 million with BP to supply their stations with his chargers in the U.S., plus taxpayer dollars are being spent to place charging stations on our public roads. Once people get use to the convenance while on a highway just being able to pull into a rest stop and fill up while taking care of business or waking up in the morning with their cars fully charged at home the demand will start to surge again. And let’s take a look at the profits, EVs are much less expensive to produce then ICE vehicles. Between solar, wind and nuclear, electricity is also less expensive than producing and delivering fuel. Maybe because the last five years of my career was negotiating contracts, I see everything through the lens of dollars. But to bolster my position unless there is a request most all new homes are being built with electric heat, stoves and ovens. Why because it’s less expensive than running a second fuel sore. At the end of the day maybe not as fast as expected but EVs will dominate the market and the conversion will have nothing to do with climate change, just follow the money.

In 2006, did a paper on EVs for my masters program. At that time it was projected that at most EVs would gain 25% of the market, but to do that oil would. Have to double in price.

Last time I looked the EV share of the market it was still less than 10%. When Henry Ford started mass production of automobiles, did the government mandate their use over horses? No, the market decided. If it weren’t for government mandates imposed on us, the market share for EVs would be even less.

[Blueblaze]

Susan if you're young enough you might have no choice ICE will become obsolete. Again, this has nothing to do with the environment. If it did there would be a more sustained effort for hydrogen vehicles. This all has to do with profits. This is a new market; global warming is just a cover story. If your concern is charging station, once the money starts rolling in, you'll be tripping over them, they will be everywhere.

A tank of hydrogen makes more sense than a 2000 lb battery that takes 8 hours to charge, but the only advantage to the environment would be that you wouldn't have to level mountains in China digging up lithium, cobalt and rare earths. Hydrogen would be a disaster for "Climate Change".

The primary source of Earth's greenhouse is WATER VAPOR, not CO2. CO2 is a trace gas, barely 0.04% of the atmosphere -- unlike Venus, which started the warming panic, where it is 98% .

In fact, if vehicles actually do contribute to Global Warming, it is undoubtedly because of the water vapor they emit -- for every carbon atom in a molecule of gasoline, there are 3 hydrogen atoms.

[huge-pigeons]

there are 350 charging stations in Vermont according to drive electric Vermont with more coming on line monthly , Vermont has the highest per capital rate of public charging availability in the United States according to Drive Electric Vermont . I looked this up only because all my nieces and nephews ski in Vermont and drive their EV s up there from the Boston area. A simple search and you would have found a map with easy directions to all the chargers and no I don’t have one ,but facts are facts

It means nothing that there are 350 stations, how many work with the Chevy? Probably a handful. Also, out of those listed, how many work? How many cars are using them? What converter do you need? I have friends that skipped buying an EV that wasn’t a Tesla because of the lack of stations.
We are light years away from having the infrastructure to handle EV’s

[TeresaE]

So why haven't the manufacturers done that?

Surely if one came up with a car that did 100mpg it would vastly outsell those doing 35mpg?

Yes, but it will never happen because of the tax dollars and fuel consumption. If we don’t buy enough fuel the system can’t pay for itself. Same with hybrids. If we, the consumer, chose those, neither oil nor lithium would be sold in large enough quantities.
With EVs they’ll be able to tax mileage. They’ll also be able to curtail travel. Imagine the next pandemic only this time, we’re mostly in EVs. The car computer shuts down. Now you’re stuck. A dystopian thought? Maybe, but a stuck population is a controlled population. Like the serfs in Russia of old.

[Randall55]

///

[Randall55]

EV's are very popular in UK, and given the size of the country, quite practical.
We are never more than 70 miles from the sea, and one end to the other is just over 600 miles, which, with a bigger EV, is a one charge journey.
Plenty of public charging points.
Even our rural local supermarket has two, and they make no charge (yet!), and you very seldom see both points used at same time.
Personally I will never have one due to the exorbitant cost of purchase, plus wife and I travel a lot in UK and Europe, and could not be bothered with all the logistics of finding charging points.
It's horses for courses really.
If our world was solely TV I could see the point of one, but with the distances of city to city travel in US, I would never have anything but an ICE vehicle.
Just cannot understand the TOTV posters who are so opposed to EV's.
No one is forcing them to buy.
The majority will be long dead and gone, even if such a time comes.
Just stick with your ICE vehicle, and let those who want electric sort out any problems with them.

Sorry for monologue, but freezing and raining cats and dogs here at the moment, so a bit bored.
Probably do an essay on roundabouts tomorrow, or divulge the best cheesecake recipe in the world! :icon_wink:looking forward to that cheesecake recipe. I've had enough roundabout talk.

[crash]

Can Chevy Bolts use Tesla Stations?

No they have different charging outlets.

[tvmurray]

EV vs ICE arguments aside, I will ask the question again.

tvmurray, Please tell me: WHICH RENTAL AGENCY FORCED YOU TO TAKE AN EV?

I REALLY want to avoid that company, since I will be renting a car this Christmas to drive back from Chicago!

It was Dollar/Hertz. However most other rental companies had no vehicles. They did exchange it for a real car with no hassle or cost. My question remains as to why any rental company would have an EV in their fleet.

[tvmurray]

Exactly

[Lintondr]

Google shows over 20 chargers open 24 hours just in tiny Stowe VT. Something seems askew in the sound of music of the original story. Additionally given how many seasonal travelers, there is also more than a single car rental agency.

[Toymeister]

Well the new Prius plug hybrid gets 91 mpg, is that good enough?
Genuine owner of a 23 Prius plug in here (same vehice as the 24). The vehicle is exceedingly rare with only a few hundred sold in the entire state of Florida.

It does not get 91 mpg, not in the 80s, not in the 70s, not in the 60s. Its 50 /47.

The Prius Prime advantage is the first 40 miles are electric only. The gasoline engine gets the mpg thats stated above.

[Marine1974]

there are 350 charging stations in Vermont according to drive electric Vermont with more coming on line monthly , Vermont has the highest per capital rate of public charging availability in the United States according to Drive Electric Vermont . I looked this up only because all my nieces and nephews ski in Vermont and drive their EV s up there from the Boston area. A simple search and you would have found a map with easy directions to all the chargers and no I don’t have one ,but facts are facts

tarting in the spring of 2024, Ford EV owners will have access to the Tesla Supercharger network. Currently, the Ford F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E feature a CCS-type charge port, but an adapter will allow them to connect to Tesla's fast-chargers.Nov 7, 2023

[RHReese]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023

EV's are total piece of crap. Don't bother with them they are not worth the trouble. You could have charging stations at every corner and you still would spend most of your time charging the EV's. $50,000 for a car that will only go 200 miles and take hours to recharge. NO THANKS.

[BlueStarAirlines]

Which car rental company did you use that would force an EV on you? I'd like to avoid that company!

If I had to bet it would be Hertz. I rent a lot of cars for work and they are practically giving EV rentals away if you have any status with them. I have a 5 day rental coming up and they offered me paying for two days and getting 3 free if I went with an EV.

We are switching to AVIS just because we've been forced to EV a few times with Hertz and everything was a hassle. AVIS offers EV but you have to select them.

[DonnaNi4os]

Can Chevy Bolts use Tesla Stations?

My daughter drives a Polestar and does instagram marketing for the company. According to her, Tesla chargers are not compatible with Polestars. She also said they are working with Tesla
to make them compatible with other electric vehicles.

[Vermilion Villager]

I think the post was more agenda seeking then about the difficulty in charging

YA THINK???????:1rotfl:

[MSGirl]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023
My nephew rented a Tesla on a recent trip to Maryland and spent the entire time looking for charging stations, including a dealership. The dealership only offered a slow charge. When he did find a station, he couldn’t get enough of a charge to travel in. No thank you.

[jimjamuser]

I think the post was more agenda seeking then about the difficulty in charging
A basic HUMAN tendency is to RESIST change. It seems that they did NOT want the electric vehicle in the FIRST place. So they seemed DETERMINED (like a self fulfilling prophecy) to let it ruin their vacation - and it did. I believe that Ford or Chevrolet executives explained to people that it would take 2 more YEARS to have charging stations virtually EVERYWHERE.
......Gasoline vehicles have RULED the road since about 1900. Electric vehicles will take an awkward period of up to TEN years to achieve the same lack of RANGE ANXIETY that gasoline vehicles have now.
.......Meanwhile EVERY electric vehicle on the road today makes the US less dependent on the Middle East and Russia. And electric motors have ALWAYS been more RELIABLE than gasoline engines. The electric engine moves in a SMOOTH circle. The gas engine must have pistons moving up and down and then later there is a CONVERSION to circular motion for the wheels.
.........And the more Electric vehicles there are on the road - the LESS the need for gasoline - so the price of a gal of gas will go down.
.........And that shows the motivation for the US oil and gas industry to resist E-vehicles. Which gets us back to the original, "people RESIST change". And SO do corporations.

[merrymini]

Tesla is a terrific car but all EVs have their limitations. They will definitely have a place in the future, but replace all ICEs with EVs? No. Not until some technological breakthrough happens with batteries. People who want to shut down coal fired plants are living on another planet but then, they will be dead when that is supposed to happen so they do not care. Just feed the righteous crazies for the moment and you get their votes.

[Birdrm]

Sometimes you might need to use Google instead of asking people with minimal knowledge
“In the last year, the number of EVs on the road has nearly doubled, from 6,000 to 10,000, and Vermont has added 55 charging stations, for a total of 396.
Sep 20, 2023

One of the problems with a list of charging stations is how many of those are Tesla stations that only Tesla EVs can charge?

[ThirdOfFive]

EV's are very popular in UK, and given the size of the country, quite practical.
We are never more than 70 miles from the sea, and one end to the other is just over 600 miles, which, with a bigger EV, is a one charge journey.
Plenty of public charging points.
Even our rural local supermarket has two, and they make no charge (yet!), and you very seldom see both points used at same time.
Personally I will never have one due to the exorbitant cost of purchase, plus wife and I travel a lot in UK and Europe, and could not be bothered with all the logistics of finding charging points.
It's horses for courses really.
If our world was solely TV I could see the point of one, but with the distances of city to city travel in US, I would never have anything but an ICE vehicle.
Just cannot understand the TOTV posters who are so opposed to EV's.
No one is forcing them to buy.
The majority will be long dead and gone, even if such a time comes.
Just stick with your ICE vehicle, and let those who want electric sort out any problems with them.

Sorry for monologue, but freezing and raining cats and dogs here at the moment, so a bit bored.
Probably do an essay on roundabouts tomorrow, or divulge the best cheesecake recipe in the world! :icon_wink:
Interesting points.

I think one common misconception is that people here are "opposed" to EVs. That is certainly not the case: I know plenty of people who one one (or two) and are happy with them. More power to them. If an EV fits your needs, wonderful. People are certainly free to choose them. However, the statement "No one is forcing them to buy", if the administration has their way, would prove to be untrue. See below.

I think, bottom-line, that folks here are opposed to what they see as some pretty blatant social engineering, based on concepts that at best are legitimately challengeable and at worst a power-grab. The proposed EPA emissions limitations which would mandate a 13% annual emissions reduction and an overall 56% cut in fleet emissions, for example. The administration's plan to use taxpayer dollars as as grants to automakers to retrofit for purposes of manufacturing more EVs. The proposal to dramatically cut greenhouse-gas emissions by heavy-duty vehicles (trucks, buses, and the like beginning in 2027 with ever-more stringent reductions annually to 2032--an especially problematic area because America's economy runs on such vehicles, and such restrictions would inevitably mean a significant increase in the cost of domestic goods and services. Other examples exist as well.

There is, or should be, no problem with letting the market decide, and with Elon involved the market could very well swing eventually in favor of EVs regardless of government interference. But anything that smacks of social engineering is a surefire way to raise the hackles of many--probably most--Americans. That is what you're seeing here--not opposition to EVs but opposition to what is seen as arbitrary government meddling.

I don't know how things are seen in the UK regarding such matters, but I go back to a quote by former President Ronald Reagan: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Maybe the citizens of the UK don't see government in that way, but a whole lot of Americans do.

[JMintzer]

Actually, you made some strawman argument. YTD, the Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the world. Through Q2, it was the best selling car in the US (just edged out by RAV4 in the Q3 YTD numbers). Again, I was responding to the comment about EVs being a novelty. They aren't.

Nothing straw man about my argument, at all...

Sorry you can't comprehend what that actually means...

And at this point in time, they most certainly are still a novelty... Will they become the norm? Possibly. But to think they are just because ONE model Tesla outsold ONE model Toyota (which has a dozen different similar vehicles which are comparable in price, style and function) is foolish...

Hell, just add the Honda Civic to the list and they blow the Tesla's numbers out of the water...

[JMintzer]

Like it or not EVs are going to take over.
Today’s investments in the EV world are slated to improving milage, charging speed, and access to charging stations. Musk just signed a contract for $100 million with BP to supply their stations with his chargers in the U.S., plus taxpayer dollars are being spent to place charging stations on our public roads. Once people get use to the convenance while on a highway just being able to pull into a rest stop and fill up while taking care of business or waking up in the morning with their cars fully charged at home the demand will start to surge again. And let’s take a look at the profits, EVs are much less expensive to produce then ICE vehicles. Between solar, wind and nuclear, electricity is also less expensive than producing and delivering fuel. Maybe because the last five years of my career was negotiating contracts, I see everything through the lens of dollars. But to bolster my position unless there is a request most all new homes are being built with electric heat, stoves and ovens. Why because it’s less expensive than running a second fuel sore. At the end of the day maybe not as fast as expected but EVs will dominate the market and the conversion will have nothing to do with climate change, just follow the money.

If that is true, why are the car companies losing $10's of thousands of $$$ on every EV sold?

[JMintzer]

EV's are very popular in UK, and given the size of the country, quite practical.
We are never more than 70 miles from the sea, and one end to the other is just over 600 miles, which, with a bigger EV, is a one charge journey.
Plenty of public charging points.
Even our rural local supermarket has two, and they make no charge (yet!), and you very seldom see both points used at same time.
Personally I will never have one due to the exorbitant cost of purchase, plus wife and I travel a lot in UK and Europe, and could not be bothered with all the logistics of finding charging points.
It's horses for courses really.
If our world was solely TV I could see the point of one, but with the distances of city to city travel in US, I would never have anything but an ICE vehicle.
Just cannot understand the TOTV posters who are so opposed to EV's.
No one is forcing them to buy.
The majority will be long dead and gone, even if such a time comes.
Just stick with your ICE vehicle, and let those who want electric sort out any problems with them.

Sorry for monologue, but freezing and raining cats and dogs here at the moment, so a bit bored.
Probably do an essay on roundabouts tomorrow, or divulge the best cheesecake recipe in the world! :icon_wink:

And there's the rub... Several states and now some on the national scene are trying to force us into buy them in the next 6-11 years...

Now, YOU may plan to be gone by then, but some of us hope to be around much longer...

[Blackbird45]

In 2006, did a paper on EVs for my masters program. At that time it was projected that at most EVs would gain 25% of the market, but to do that oil would. Have to double in price.

Last time I looked the EV share of the market it was still less than 10%. When Henry Ford started mass production of automobiles, did the government mandate their use over horses? No, the market decided. If it weren’t for government mandates imposed on us, the market share for EVs would be even less.

I don't believe you understood what I was trying to convey. This has nothing to do with oil price or saving the consumer money. This is a new produce for the auto industry to sell and is less expensive to build. Do you believe the auto companies, battery manufactures, are investing millions to save the consumer money or save the planet. This is America the main motivation in this country is making money and it's not only the companies it's all everyday American investors looking to cash in.

[JMintzer]

Google shows over 20 chargers open 24 hours just in tiny Stowe VT. Something seems askew in the sound of music of the original story. Additionally given how many seasonal travelers, there is also more than a single car rental agency.

Were they capable of charging the Chevy EV? If not, they were 20 useless chargers...

[Blackbird45]

If that is true, why are the car companies losing $10's of thousands of $$$ on every EV sold?

That might be true today, but these companies are investing millions of dollars to get the kinks out. Once they do they expect a big return are their investment. There too much cash going into this, it's not going away.

[JMintzer]

A basic HUMAN tendency is to RESIST change. It seems that they did NOT want the electric vehicle in the FIRST place. So they seemed DETERMINED (like a self fulfilling prophecy) to let it ruin their vacation - and it did. I believe that Ford or Chevrolet executives explained to people that it would take 2 more YEARS to have charging stations virtually EVERYWHERE.
......Gasoline vehicles have RULED the road since about 1900. Electric vehicles will take an awkward period of up to TEN years to achieve the same lack of RANGE ANXIETY that gasoline vehicles have now.
.......Meanwhile EVERY electric vehicle on the road today makes the US less dependent on the Middle East and Russia. And electric motors have ALWAYS been more RELIABLE than gasoline engines. The electric engine moves in a SMOOTH circle. The gas engine must have pistons moving up and down and then later there is a CONVERSION to circular motion for the wheels.
.........And the more Electric vehicles there are on the road - the LESS the need for gasoline - so the price of a gal of gas will go down.
.........And that shows the motivation for the US oil and gas industry to resist E-vehicles. Which gets us back to the original, "people RESIST change". And SO do corporations.

But MORE dependent on CHINA...

[JMintzer]

Really! You agreed to rent an EV and didn't check to see where charging stations were located. Your experience is your fault - own it. EV's are the future - get use to it! Sore head!

Did you miss the part where they stated that was all the rental place had?

It was either take the EV or walk...

[JMintzer]

Interesting points.

I think one common misconception is that people here are "opposed" to EVs. That is certainly not the case: I know plenty of people who one one (or two) and are happy with them. More power to them. If an EV fits your needs, wonderful. People are certainly free to choose them. However, the statement "No one is forcing them to buy", if the administration has their way, would prove to be untrue. See below.

I think, bottom-line, that folks here are opposed to what they see as some pretty blatant social engineering, based on concepts that at best are legitimately challengeable and at worst a power-grab. The proposed EPA emissions limitations which would mandate a 13% annual emissions reduction and an overall 56% cut in fleet emissions, for example. The administration's plan to use taxpayer dollars as as grants to automakers to retrofit for purposes of manufacturing more EVs. The proposal to dramatically cut greenhouse-gas emissions by heavy-duty vehicles (trucks, buses, and the like beginning in 2027 with ever-more stringent reductions annually to 2032--an especially problematic area because America's economy runs on such vehicles, and such restrictions would inevitably mean a significant increase in the cost of domestic goods and services. Other examples exist as well.

There is, or should be, no problem with letting the market decide, and with Elon involved the market could very well swing eventually in favor of EVs regardless of government interference. But anything that smacks of social engineering is a surefire way to raise the hackles of many--probably most--Americans. That is what you're seeing here--not opposition to EVs but opposition to what is seen as arbitrary government meddling.

I don't know how things are seen in the UK regarding such matters, but I go back to a quote by former President Ronald Reagan: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Maybe the citizens of the UK don't see government in that way, but a whole lot of Americans do.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/60/65/a46065c2a64c099c0dfd84943cbfa17d.gif

[LoisR]

That's why I went with a PHEV Rav 4. It got 70+ mph on our trip to TV.

[JMintzer]

That might be true today, but these companies are investing millions of dollars to get the kinks out. Once they do they expect a big return are their investment. There too much cash going into this, it's not going away.

They are investing millions of $$$ because they are being FORCED to...

[Dantes]

I wonder why they cost so much
Using child slaves to dig up rare
Earth u would think the cars would b cheaper and no EPA laws to follow ???

[Maker]

After purchasing a series of eight Chysler vans; Town and Country and then Pacifica, we purchased a Pacifica Hybrid this year in 2023 in July. We have filled the tank with gas only three times since July. Granted we are older and use it mostly for travel here in The Villages area. Our younger family members were amused and surprised when we purchased this car because this isn't how we vote. ;)

Please add STABIL to your gas tank ASAP. And use it every time you get gas. You are not driving enough to keep gas in your tank fresh.

Gas that sits too long becomes gummy and will cause a big problem if left to become stale. Varnish deposits will foul the injectors. Fuel lines will plug up. Your hybrid will become an expensive paperweight. (unless you pay $$$$ to get it fixed)

[Blackbird45]

They are investing millions of $$$ because they are being FORCED to...

No one is forcing companies or people to invest in EVs. Everyone is getting involved because they believe there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And with the amount of money that is being poured into this I'm sure they're right. Please don't tell me you believe there is some type of deep state conspiracy with a gun to everyone's head, making them invest, manufacture and purchase EVs.

[Vermilion Villager]

They are investing millions of $$$ because they are being FORCED to...
So what difference does it make?

Back in 1975 the average miles per gallon was 13.5. Since then the government has mandated continuous increases in the mileage standard. That's why I today we enjoy vehicles that get 30 to 40 miles per gallon. I don't hear you complaining about that!!!

Point is industry can do it… If they have to.
Driving to 54.5 MPG: The History of Fuel Economy | The Pew Charitable Trusts (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-sheets/2011/04/20/driving-to-545-mpg-the-history-of-fuel-economy)

[Vermilion Villager]

It was Dollar/Hertz. However most other rental companies had no vehicles. They did exchange it for a real car with no hassle or cost. My question remains as to why any rental company would have an EV in their fleet.
Because people want them!!!! No car rental company is going to stock vehicles that no one wants to rent.
Whether it's being environmentally conscience or just plain wanna try one. Just like rentals in the villages people maybe want to try them out before they determine if it's something they want to purchase or not.:ho:

[tophcfa]

Please add STABIL to your gas tank ASAP. And use it every time you get gas. You are not driving enough to keep gas in your tank fresh.

Gas that sits too long becomes gummy and will cause a big problem if left to become stale. Varnish deposits will foul the injectors. Fuel lines will plug up. Your hybrid will become an expensive paperweight. (unless you pay $$$$ to get it fixed)

Just get the ethanol free gas at WaWa, problem solved.

[Toymeister]

That's why I went with a PHEV Rav 4. It got 70+ mph on our trip to TV.

For the uneducated in terminology and mathmatics. PHEV means plug in hybrid. And no the PHEV RAV 4 does not get 70 mpg. The PHEV RAV 4 gets about 40 miles from an electric battery then the hybrid motor kicks in at about 38mpg (combined). The electric, gas free, miles do not boost your mpg of gasoline fueled miles. If they did I acheved 263 mpg on my last tank.

This doesn't mean PHEVs are not fantastic (I own one), it means facts matter. Gasoline, hybrid powered, mpg is currently at about 50mpg maximium with todays technology.

Spoken by an owner of the highest mileage PHEV, currently for sale in North America.

[jswirs]

Please add STABIL to your gas tank ASAP. And use it every time you get gas. You are not driving enough to keep gas in your tank fresh.

Gas that sits too long becomes gummy and will cause a big problem if left to become stale. Varnish deposits will foul the injectors. Fuel lines will plug up. Your hybrid will become an expensive paperweight. (unless you pay $$$$ to get it fixed) That is not true. I have a Chrysler Pacifica hybrid so, in order to keep the gas fresh the vehicle goes into an "engine refresh mode", so the vehicle, when necessary, runs on gas only, until you add fresh gas to the tank.

[jimjamuser]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla a few years ago (admittedly, chargers were more scarce then). When he finally got rid of it, it was primarily a result of his Therapist's advice. He told me he had "range anxiety" every day he owned the thing. It was so bad, he almost couldn't function.

He was an idiot to have bought the thing in the first place, knowing he spent most of his time "on the road".

Customer Satisfaction scores for EV's are abysmal. The major automakers have inventory backing up, because most everyone who wants an EV, has already bought one. Something has to give soon, as EV's simply aren't the answer.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-electric-vehicle-experience-evx-public-charging-study)
It is NOT that "customer satisfaction with EVs is abysmal. people like the EVs. They don't like the fact that there are NOT enough charging stations away from home...............at least, for now.

[jimjamuser]

The first EV by GM was extremely popular as a commuter vehicle which it was designed for. They developed leading edge battery which they sold to Cheveron Oil and shelved.
A documentary was made “ Who killed the Electric Car”
Available on TUBI for free other streaming sources $3.59 to $3.99
GM EV1 1996-199….
EVs are doing fine in Europe. It is SAD that the US is more backward than Europe. We still don't even use the METRIC SYSTEM.

[Maker]

Just get the ethanol free gas at WaWa, problem solved.

That is bad advice. Here is why...

Let's say you have been using ETH free fuel every fill up. And then go on a trip. Along the way it's highly likely you would fill up with E10 because of availability.
Now you have introduced E10 fuel into a fuel system that has been exclusively using non-ethanol gasoline. That ethanol, as a new solvent, will tend to dissolve and loosen deposits that have become present in the tank and fuel system over time. This surface cleaning action removes that built up gunk and leads to clogging of the fuel filter and injectors. That was an actual widespread problem when E10 was first being rolled out. Many people had serious problems with their vehicles. Luckily, the modern fuel systems no longer use rubber gaskets, which was another nightmare by itself.

Second, ETH free fuel is about $1 per gallon more expensive than E10. One quart of stabil is about $10, and will treat many tanks full of fuel. Significantly less expensive overall, and superior protection.

Third, when on a trip, there's no need to take stabil since you will consume all the fuel you are buying in a short time span. When you get home, then add stabil. No worries about some fuel in the tank remains unused for months.

[NavyVet]

Well, ya know what they say about car rental companies ...

[birdawg]

Remember when GM put Diesel engine’s in cars, That was another mistake.

[lawgolfer]

An honest answer by an EV owner!

An EV used for short distances, say 100 miles/day, is an excellent idea. This is particularly so in an urban setting. The owner should have a garage where the EV can be charged overnight. An alternative would be an owner who has a sufficient number of charging stations at his/her place of work available for charging during the work day.

As for using an EV to travel for any distance, they are not, and never will be, practical. If you doubt this, read about the experiences of professional drivers in road tests of EV's in the automobile magazines. The true believers will tell you that in a short time there will be thousands of charging stations across the country. The fact is there can never be enough operable charging stations to service a number of EV's comparable to the number of IC's used in everyday travel.

One fact that believers never discuss is that charging stations are being concentrated in single locations, unlike gasoline stations. Automobile drivers do not all stop at single locations. IC drivers go varying distances before refueling. The result is that the number of IC's stopping to refuel are staggered over many miles and locations. By concentrating EV chargers in large numbers sufficient to fuel hundreds of thousand of EV's every day there will be massive traffic jams at the charging stations. I have had believers tell me, "Oh well, there will be stations placed every mile or so along the highways". Good luck with that! The "range anxiety" of finding an available charger will increase exponentially. Also, I can't imagine that many men, and fewer women, will be willing to trust their safety to sitting for 30 minutes alongside a highway to get a 50% charge allowing them to drive 100 miles and repeat the process.

People who do not regularly drive on our Interstate Highways have no concept of the staggering number of vehicles of all kinds using the roadways. There will never be an infrastructure sufficient to, conveniently, and, quickly, refuel the same number of EV's. I just read on Google that there were 290.8 million vehicles of all kinds registered in the US as of 2022. Anyone who believes these can be replaced by EV's and that a functional transportation system will exist, is living in a fantasy world.

My comments only address the feasibility of replacing the nation's fleet of IC's with EV's. The separate problem of providing enough electricity to fuel 290.8 million IV's is mind-boggling, particularly as the true believers are, likely, to be the same people who oppose nuclear power plants. Please don't tell me we can cover the deserts with wind towers and solar panels. That fight is already taking place between the true believers and the friends of the desert, a variant of the friends of the forest.

If you want a good laugh, search for a video of the EV's, lined up, hoping to charge their Tesla's, at the Madonna Inn, or any other charging station, on Interstate 5 in California at Thanksgiving or Christmas, to be able to make it to S.F. or L.A.

[Topspinmo]

I wonder why they cost so much
Using child slaves to dig up rare
Earth u would think the cars would b cheaper and no EPA laws to follow ???

400% or more mark up it the American way.

[jimjamuser]

Tesla is a terrific car but all EVs have their limitations. They will definitely have a place in the future, but replace all ICEs with EVs? No. Not until some technological breakthrough happens with batteries. People who want to shut down coal fired plants are living on another planet but then, they will be dead when that is supposed to happen so they do not care. Just feed the righteous crazies for the moment and you get their votes.
It is NOT practical or possible to replace all ICE vehicles with E-vehicles instantly. It will take time. Both the US and Europe have made a good start. In Europe about 20% of all NEW vehicles are E-vehicles and in the US, it is about 8%. Electric vehicles have advantages of greater acceleration and increased reliability. As more people purchase E-vehicles, greater research will produce better batteries. E-vehicles are like newborn babies in their developmental history. ICE vehicles are like VERY old seniors. many more charging stations will appear in the next 2 years.
.........Even Electric Golf Carts have many advantages. Their lower center of gravity increases their acceleration and increases SAFETY from roll-overs.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting points.

I think one common misconception is that people here are "opposed" to EVs. That is certainly not the case: I know plenty of people who one one (or two) and are happy with them. More power to them. If an EV fits your needs, wonderful. People are certainly free to choose them. However, the statement "No one is forcing them to buy", if the administration has their way, would prove to be untrue. See below.

I think, bottom-line, that folks here are opposed to what they see as some pretty blatant social engineering, based on concepts that at best are legitimately challengeable and at worst a power-grab. The proposed EPA emissions limitations which would mandate a 13% annual emissions reduction and an overall 56% cut in fleet emissions, for example. The administration's plan to use taxpayer dollars as as grants to automakers to retrofit for purposes of manufacturing more EVs. The proposal to dramatically cut greenhouse-gas emissions by heavy-duty vehicles (trucks, buses, and the like beginning in 2027 with ever-more stringent reductions annually to 2032--an especially problematic area because America's economy runs on such vehicles, and such restrictions would inevitably mean a significant increase in the cost of domestic goods and services. Other examples exist as well.

There is, or should be, no problem with letting the market decide, and with Elon involved the market could very well swing eventually in favor of EVs regardless of government interference. But anything that smacks of social engineering is a surefire way to raise the hackles of many--probably most--Americans. That is what you're seeing here--not opposition to EVs but opposition to what is seen as arbitrary government meddling.

I don't know how things are seen in the UK regarding such matters, but I go back to a quote by former President Ronald Reagan: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Maybe the citizens of the UK don't see government in that way, but a whole lot of Americans do.
Markets can't DECIDE everything because markets are just a small subset compared with the influence of the national government. Markets can't decide how BIG to make the CIA, but the US government can. Markets don't decide where large interstate highways go, gut government does. Markets don't decide when to start a WAR, governments do.
........The US government takes all factors into consideration such as limited amounts of fossil fuel, pollution from fossil fuel, health risks associated with fossil fuels, which countries are US enemies, increasing global temperatures due to fossil fuel - and then asks the question, "how to we decrease fossil fuel use". Then, US government may decide to stimulate the use and purchase of non-fossil fuel burning automobiles. Markets can't decide that, so government MUST!

[jimjamuser]

I wonder why they cost so much
Using child slaves to dig up rare
Earth u would think the cars would b cheaper and no EPA laws to follow ???
As sales go up, fixed costs get covered, and price goes down.

[tophcfa]

As sales go up, fixed costs get covered, and price goes down.
As sales go up, the pool of remaining consumers who want one will quickly dry up.

[jimjamuser]

The United States Gov't is forcing automobile manufacturers into the EV business and it's been going on for 20 years and getting worse.

It's the simplest conspiracy on the face of the earth. The government has imposed CAFE & emission standards on the manufacturers, that are impractical to meet with ICE. So unless someone can figure out a way to make an internal combustion engine run on salt water, there's no alternative other than electricity.

The CAFE regulations are also destroying the original solution to ICE, hybrids (a logical solution, but that doesn't impress the Greenies or make a large enough impact on CAFE).
I don't see CAFE regulations as terrible things. They help cut down on pollution, which helps older people to breathe better. They make countries that HATE the US like Russia, Iran, and others in the Middle East LESS rich. Decreasing pollution decreases Global Warming.

[jimjamuser]

Thanks for posting that, someone might have missed the last thousand times you posted it.
Repetition is designed to promote understanding. Understanding.

[jimjamuser]

As sales go up, the pool of remaining consumers who want one will quickly dry up.
When little Johnny's parents get an E-vehicle, little Johnny's friends' parents will also want an E-vehicle.

[Blackbird45]

The United States Gov't is forcing automobile manufacturers into the EV business and it's been going on for 20 years and getting worse.

It's the simplest conspiracy on the face of the earth. The government has imposed CAFE & emission standards on the manufacturers, that are impractical to meet with ICE. So unless someone can figure out a way to make an internal combustion engine run on salt water, there's no alternative other than electricity.

The CAFE regulations are also destroying the original solution to ICE, hybrids (a logical solution, but that doesn't impress the Greenies or make a large enough impact on CAFE).

Look the government no matter who has their hands on the wheel can barely control anything. You believe the government can force the auto industry to manufacture electric cars, that is comical. Politicians put standards in place because of the pressure they receive from their constituents.

There used to be an old saying which a version was attributed to Plato in 380 BC, which became “Necessity is the mother of invention”. In today’s world that is no longer the case. If there is no profit at the end of the tunnel whatever the necessity is will not be met.

Look Ford built the Edsel in 1957 it lasted 3 years before it came off the market. The demise was due to market pressure, why because it was a bomb nobody wanted it. A substantial number of people want electric cars and what is even more important is a large amount of the American investor are willing to invest in stocks that support that goal. Do you think all these people are worried about the planet or that the government is going to kidnap their children. No, they believe that there is an alternative to ICE and they believe EVs are the answer. They are putting their hard earn money on the table because they believe it’s a winner. If there is any pressure companies will bend to is the investor, no investors no company.

[JMintzer]

It is NOT practical or possible to replace all ICE vehicles with E-vehicles instantly. It will take time. Both the US and Europe have made a good start. In Europe about 20% of all NEW vehicles are E-vehicles and in the US, it is about 8%. Electric vehicles have advantages of greater acceleration and increased reliability. As more people purchase E-vehicles, greater research will produce better batteries. E-vehicles are like newborn babies in their developmental history. ICE vehicles are like VERY old seniors. many more charging stations will appear in the next 2 years.
.........Even Electric Golf Carts have many advantages. Their lower center of gravity increases their acceleration and increases SAFETY from roll-overs.

"Increased acceleration"? Sounds dangerous... Will the police be handing out tickets?

Oh, and my memory must be failing... What type of EV do you drive?

[JMintzer]

Thanks for posting that, someone might have missed the last thousand times you posted it.

https://media.tenor.com/Ss6aYVPpjKkAAAAC/giggle-snicker.gif

[JMintzer]

When little Johnny's parents get an E-vehicle, little Johnny's friends' parents will also want an E-vehicle.

Only if they're lemmings...

I'll buy an EV when it's the best choice FOR ME, not when a neighbor buys one...

Only simple minded people don't think for themselves...

[JMintzer]

Look the government no matter who has their hands on the wheel can barely control anything. You believe the government can force the auto industry to manufacture electric cars, that is comical. Politicians put standards in place because of the pressure they receive from their constituents.

There used to be an old saying which a version was attributed to Plato in 380 BC, which became “Necessity is the mother of invention”. In today’s world that is no longer the case. If there is no profit at the end of the tunnel whatever the necessity is will not be met.

Look Ford built the Edsel in 1957 it lasted 3 years before it came off the market. The demise was due to market pressure, why because it was a bomb nobody wanted it. A substantial number of people want electric cars and what is even more important is a large amount of the American investor are willing to invest in stocks that support that goal. Do you think all these people are worried about the planet or that the government is going to kidnap their children. No, they believe that there is an alternative to ICE and they believe EVs are the answer. They are putting their hard earn money on the table because they believe it’s a winner. If there is any pressure companies will bend to is the investor, no investors no company.

Please explain why auto makers are now complaining than no one is buying their EVs and that the stock on hand is languishing?

Could it be due to "market pressure"?

[BrianL99]

Look the government no matter who has their hands on the wheel can barely control anything. You believe the government can force the auto industry to manufacture electric cars, that is comical. Politicians put standards in place because of the pressure they receive from their constituents.

There used to be an old saying which a version was attributed to Plato in 380 BC, which became “Necessity is the mother of invention”. In today’s world that is no longer the case. If there is no profit at the end of the tunnel whatever the necessity is will not be met.

Look Ford built the Edsel in 1957 it lasted 3 years before it came off the market. The demise was due to market pressure, why because it was a bomb nobody wanted it. A substantial number of people want electric cars and what is even more important is a large amount of the American investor are willing to invest in stocks that support that goal. Do you think all these people are worried about the planet or that the government is going to kidnap their children. No, they believe that there is an alternative to ICE and they believe EVs are the answer. They are putting their hard earn money on the table because they believe it’s a winner. If there is any pressure companies will bend to is the investor, no investors no company.


The facts don't agree with your reasoning nor conclusion, but you're surely entitled to your opinion.

[Blackbird45]

Please explain why auto makers are now complaining than no one is buying their EVs and that the stock on hand is languishing?

Could it be due to "market pressure"?

No, the EV market is in its infancy. You would have to be blind not to see the issues, but there is lots of money being invested to fix those kinks. This is not a mountain it is a minor hump, and the investments will bring EVs to its maturity. Tesla stock is not languishing and as the problems are confronted all EV stock will rise. The only question is how long it will take. If you're a day trader you might take a bath, but I believe if you're in for the long haul you will do well. Who in their right mind would have stock it out with Amazon. I would have dumped it in the beginning.

[BrianL99]

No, the EV market is in its infancy. You would have to be blind not to see the issues, but there is lots of money being invested to fix those kinks. This is not a mountain it is a minor hump, and the investments will bring EVs to its maturity. Tesla stock is not languishing and as the problems are confronted all EV stock will rise. The only question is how long it will take. If you're a day trader you might take a bath, but I believe if you're in for the long haul you will do well. Who in their right mind would have stock it out with Amazon. I would have dumped it in the beginning.

The major auto makers have been making electric cars since the early 90's, over 30 years ago. Tesla's been marketing cars for almost 15 years.

EV's are now about 8% of the market.

Yep, they're catching on fast !.

Ford Will Lose $4.5 Billion on Electric Vehicles — Will Prices Drop Further as a Result? (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-lose-4-5-billion-173612802.html)

Access Denied (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/ford-will-postpone-about-12-billion-in-ev-investment.html)

[DrMack]

I’m so sorry to hear about your trip! I get it about green energy. Here’s the honest truth though. You are talking about Vermont and Fall!

Heaters in electric cars run off of electricity using resisters or heat pumps. They can drain an electric vehicle battery fairly quickly. We had 2 Teslas and in the winter they lasted a little over half as long as when we drove them in the summer months. The G 80 did the best, it could do about 3/4 what it was able to do in the summer in the best of conditions.

Next trip, I would consider being more pragmatic and just getting the more portable eco friendly gas powered car for the week. Zero worries that way.

[ThirdOfFive]

Repetition is designed to promote understanding. Understanding.
"A lie, repeated often enough, becomes the truth". (Josef Goebbels)

Methinks the above post confuses understanding with indoctrination.

[Byte1]

That might be true today, but these companies are investing millions of dollars to get the kinks out. Once they do they expect a big return are their investment. There too much cash going into this, it's not going away.

Like I said before, .....excuses for an unfinished....novelty vehicle.

[Byte1]

It is NOT that "customer satisfaction with EVs is abysmal. people like the EVs. They don't like the fact that there are NOT enough charging stations away from home...............at least, for now.

Another reason/excuse for the EVs not ready for prime time. EVs have limitations that ICE vehicles don't. Only reason anyone thinks EVs are "great" is because they support the false green movement. Oh, and why would anyone want people to think they made a bad choice by spending a lot of money on a paper tiger? Of course they are going to insist they like their EV. But, do they like it better than a nice ICE luxury car, or are they just stuck with an incomplete idea and don't want to admit it?
Should our government subsidize hundreds of thousands of charging stations? Surely they know that there will never be enough of them. Should they put one at each curb on the street for those residents that don't own a garage?
And using Europe as an example of how great EVs are, is ludicrous. Commuting in Europe (tiny countries) can be done on bicycles in many cases. Not even apples to oranges.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com View Post
"I think the post was more agenda seeking then about the difficulty in charging."

So do I, Charlie, SO DO I.

[Byte1]

EVs are doing fine in Europe. It is SAD that the US is more backward than Europe. We still don't even use the METRIC SYSTEM.

If the US is "more backward than Europe" then why is it that our poverty level families living as good a lifestyle as the middle class in Europe? And what does the metric system have to do with the subject anyway?

[Byte1]

Markets can't DECIDE everything because markets are just a small subset compared with the influence of the national government. Markets can't decide how BIG to make the CIA, but the US government can. Markets don't decide where large interstate highways go, gut government does. Markets don't decide when to start a WAR, governments do.
........The US government takes all factors into consideration such as limited amounts of fossil fuel, pollution from fossil fuel, health risks associated with fossil fuels, which countries are US enemies, increasing global temperatures due to fossil fuel - and then asks the question, "how to we decrease fossil fuel use". Then, US government may decide to stimulate the use and purchase of non-fossil fuel burning automobiles. Markets can't decide that, so government MUST!

I can see how "someone " finds Europe so appealing. It is NOT the American way to have the government dictate what we need and what we really want. Americans prefer the freedom to make their own choices. At least, most Americans do.

[Byte1]

No, the EV market is in its infancy. You would have to be blind not to see the issues, but there is lots of money being invested to fix those kinks. This is not a mountain it is a minor hump, and the investments will bring EVs to its maturity. Tesla stock is not languishing and as the problems are confronted all EV stock will rise. The only question is how long it will take. If you're a day trader you might take a bath, but I believe if you're in for the long haul you will do well. Who in their right mind would have stock it out with Amazon. I would have dumped it in the beginning.

EVs go back as far as the 1800's and seem to still be in their "infancy." Over a hundred years old and still not ready for prime time. Maybe they can be configured to use cold fusion :D? Another great idea that still can't quite get started. :(

[Bill14564]

Another reason/excuse for the EVs not ready for prime time. EVs have limitations that ICE vehicles don't. Only reason anyone thinks EVs are "great" is because they support the false green movement. Oh, and why would anyone want people to think they made a bad choice by spending a lot of money on a paper tiger? Of course they are going to insist they like their EV. But, do they like it better than a nice ICE luxury car, or are they just stuck with an incomplete idea and don't want to admit it?

....


You keep insisting that an EV is not the right car for YOU and therefore it is not the right car for ANYONE. There are people in western states that would never buy a car over a truck because they don't have the ground clearance for the back roads and are terrible in the snow. Does that mean that cars are bad or does it mean that their situation requires something that cars cannot provide?

If you frequently drive longer distances and don't have the time to spend at a charging station then an EV as your only vehicle would not work for you. I am currently in that situation but I recognize that others are not, I was not until recently, and I will not be in the future. I wish I had an EV when I was commuting 40 miles to work, it would have saved a huge amount in gas. My family in NY stays withing a 100 mile radius so they would greatly benefit from gas savings. When I stop taking long trips (including driving up to see them) then I will purchase an EV to save on gas. MANY people find an EV to be great today.

It's sad that you spend so much energy trying to convince others that they have made bad choices when clearly, many are very happy with their EVs. As for buyer's remorse, others regret buying that luxury BMW that turns out to be expensive to maintain and operate. I drive a luxury car today but I am really looking forward to the day my driving needs fit the capabilities of an EV so that I can trade up to one of those.

[Two Bills]

I can see how "someone " finds Europe so appealing. It is NOT the American way to have the government dictate what we need and what we really want. Americans prefer the freedom to make their own choices. At least, most Americans do.

Providing the majority all walk in the same direction!

[Byte1]

You keep insisting that an EV is not the right car for YOU and therefore it is not the right car for ANYONE. There are people in western states that would never buy a car over a truck because they don't have the ground clearance for the back roads and are terrible in the snow. Does that mean that cars are bad or does it mean that their situation requires something that cars cannot provide?

If you frequently drive longer distances and don't have the time to spend at a charging station then an EV as your only vehicle would not work for you. I am currently in that situation but I recognize that others are not, I was not until recently, and I will not be in the future. I wish I had an EV when I was commuting 40 miles to work, it would have saved a huge amount in gas. My family in NY stays withing a 100 mile radius so they would greatly benefit from gas savings. When I stop taking long trips (including driving up to see them) then I will purchase an EV to save on gas. MANY people find an EV to be great today.

It's sad that you spend so much energy trying to convince others that they have made bad choices when clearly, many are very happy with their EVs. As for buyer's remorse, others regret buying that luxury BMW that turns out to be expensive to maintain and operate. I drive a luxury car today but I am really looking forward to the day my driving needs fit the capabilities of an EV so that I can trade up to one of those.
Apparently, you misunderstood my posts. Where was I saying that the EV is not for me? I never even said that the EV was a bad idea. I said it was an incomplete idea that was prematurely released with the intention of replacing the ICE. I also said that folks that support the EV are making excuses for it's limits. I also said that I own a battery powered golf cart and I add that I also own ONLY battery powered tools (except my saw). To be honest with you, I also find the battery powered tools that I own to be anemic compared to the same tools powered by fossil fuel. But, I did not wish to store gasoline in my garage. My preference.
Let me reiterate that when I read posts that state that the EV "will" be great eventually, or that the EV "is good IF" the weather is right, or they are charged over night in you garage (as if everyone has a garage). Or, the EV is fine if you don't have to travel a long way, or as long as you are not waiting in a line to charge it, etc. I hear a lot of excuses for them not being as good as ICE vehicles. So, I am sure you will agree that they are not yet ready for prime time, as I said a couple of times in response to those excuses. My motorcycle does not make claims as a replacement for a car. It is a novelty or luxury, nothing more. If an EV cannot meet th e standards or requirements of an ICE vehicle, it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury, not meant for real time.

[Bill14564]

Apparently, you misunderstood my posts. Where was I saying that the EV is not for me? I never even said that the EV was a bad idea. I said it was an incomplete idea that was prematurely released with the intention of replacing the ICE. I also said that folks that support the EV are making excuses for it's limits. I also said that I own a battery powered golf cart and I add that I also own ONLY battery powered tools (except my saw). To be honest with you, I also find the battery powered tools that I own to be anemic compared to the same tools powered by fossil fuel. But, I did not wish to store gasoline in my garage. My preference.
Let me reiterate that when I read posts that state that the EV "will" be great eventually, or that the EV "is good IF" the weather is right, or they are charged over night in you garage (as if everyone has a garage). Or, the EV is fine if you don't have to travel a long way, or as long as you are not waiting in a line to charge it, etc. I hear a lot of excuses for them not being as good as ICE vehicles. So, I am sure you will agree that they are not yet ready for prime time, as I said a couple of times in response to those excuses. My motorcycle does not make claims as a replacement for a car. It is a novelty or luxury, nothing more. If an EV cannot meet th e standards or requirements of an ICE vehicle, it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury, not meant for real time.

I believe I understand you very well. Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking.

The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation. It was my only means of transportation for several years and my primary means for even more. In some environments it works well and in others it works poorly. Depending on what you need a car to to be able to do, it is a good replacement for a car.

An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do.

if you want to say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must run on gasoline then no, the EV does not fit the bill though a motorcycle will. If you say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must provide heating, air conditioning, and protection from the rain then an EV will work fine but a motorcycle will not. it all depends on your needs (or in your words, standards).

Apparently, an EV does not meet that standards *you* require for a prime-time vehicle. However, for many people an EV is quite sufficient. Perhaps the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Prius, Chevrolet Corvette, or BMW 350 all meet your standards for a prime-time vehicle. For someone in the west or north who has to drive on dirt roads or through six inches of snow or has to carry hay bails or pull a trailer, none of those vehicles is ready for prime time. Would you agree with them if they argued that if the vehicle did not meet those standards then it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury and not meant for real time?

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon.

"All EVs are nothing more than novelties or luxuries and are not meant for real time." That is not the case as nearly 10% of the driving public will attest to.

[jimjamuser]

No, the EV market is in its infancy. You would have to be blind not to see the issues, but there is lots of money being invested to fix those kinks. This is not a mountain it is a minor hump, and the investments will bring EVs to its maturity. Tesla stock is not languishing and as the problems are confronted all EV stock will rise. The only question is how long it will take. If you're a day trader you might take a bath, but I believe if you're in for the long haul you will do well. Who in their right mind would have stock it out with Amazon. I would have dumped it in the beginning.
TRUE that E-vehicles are in their INFANCY. That needs to be kept in mind. Right now EVs are in a stage of development similar to the early MODEL T Fords. EVs have SO MANY advantages such as reliability, lower center of gravity, better acceleration, less chance of a roll-over, and even one that is NOT often reported------------ease of manufacturing. That manufacturing ease SHOULD eventually put DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the sticker price.
...........Any battery problems and range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past in about 6 years. In Europe new vehicle sales are around 20% for EVs. So, it is likely that the US will get to THAT percentage soon.

[Topspinmo]

TRUE that E-vehicles are in their INFANCY. That needs to be kept in mind. Right now EVs are in a stage of development similar to the early MODEL T Fords. EVs have SO MANY advantages such as reliability, lower center of gravity, better acceleration, less chance of a roll-over, and even one that is NOT often reported------------ease of manufacturing. That manufacturing ease SHOULD eventually put DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the sticker price.
...........Any battery problems and range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past in about 6 years. In Europe new vehicle sales are around 20% for EVs. So, it is likely that the US will get to THAT percentage soon.

No there was electric vehicles before model T ford. It not the vehicle, it the ability to power them and recharge them. That still in model T ford level.
European’s don’t have to drive as far or certain percentages don’t own cars or can afford them. You can’t compare Europe to United States.

When prices come down (if ever) and the can get at least 400 miles on charge and that charge don’t take hours. I’ll consider buying one, if I’m still alive by then?

[jimjamuser]

I’m so sorry to hear about your trip! I get it about green energy. Here’s the honest truth though. You are talking about Vermont and Fall!

Heaters in electric cars run off of electricity using resisters or heat pumps. They can drain an electric vehicle battery fairly quickly. We had 2 Teslas and in the winter they lasted a little over half as long as when we drove them in the summer months. The G 80 did the best, it could do about 3/4 what it was able to do in the summer in the best of conditions.

Next trip, I would consider being more pragmatic and just getting the more portable eco friendly gas powered car for the week. Zero worries that way.
I agree with that reply and it is definitely a honest response because of actual ownership up north in the winter. It is a known fact to both electrical engineers and technicians that battery output drops with decreasing temperature. This will LIKELY be overcome by improved battery technology in the future. Science NEVER stops improving and the TIME gaps between major breakthroughs keep DECREASING. Perhaps hydrogen cells will end up in E-Vehicles.
.........The MAIN core of an E-vehicle is NOT the battery - it is the ELECTRICAL motor, which unlike the Internal Combustion Engine moves directly in a circle. The ICE engine MUST INEFFICIENTLY convert reciprocating piston travel into circular motion for the wheels. That fact allows easier and less expensive manufacturing for the E-vehicles.

[Topspinmo]

I believe I understand you very well. Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking.

The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation. It was my only means of transportation for several years and my primary means for even more. In some environments it works well and in others it works poorly. Depending on what you need a car to to be able to do, it is a good replacement for a car.

An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do.

if you want to say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must run on gasoline then no, the EV does not fit the bill though a motorcycle will. If you say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must provide heating, air conditioning, and protection from the rain then an EV will work fine but a motorcycle will not. it all depends on your needs (or in your words, standards).

Apparently, an EV does not meet that standards *you* require for a prime-time vehicle. However, for many people an EV is quite sufficient. Perhaps the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Prius, Chevrolet Corvette, or BMW 350 all meet your standards for a prime-time vehicle. For someone in the west or north who has to drive on dirt roads or through six inches of snow or has to carry hay bails or pull a trailer, none of those vehicles is ready for prime time. Would you agree with them if they argued that if the vehicle did not meet those standards then it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury and not meant for real time?

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon.

"All EVs are nothing more than novelties or luxuries and are not meant for real time." That is not the case as nearly 10% of the driving public will attest to.

Only questions I have with EVs are how they will hold up in the rust belt (corrosion due to salt on roads) and how far they will go in sub zero temperatures heating the vehicle, travel, and cold draw on batteries? Sure they good for southern states where rarely get down to freezing and you don’t venture over 300 miles day when affordable for masses.

[ThirdOfFive]

Interesting discussion so far!

On the one hand we have "these are the things present NOW that make EVs not a reasonable across-the-board alternative to ICEs" . On the other hand we have "things will improve for EVs WHEN thus-and-so happens".

In other words, reality vs. wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is fine. But we have to live in the real world, and THAT reality is that EVs have a long way to go, if ever, before they become a reasonable alternative to the tried-and-true internal combustion engine.

[Bill14564]

Interesting discussion so far!

On the one hand we have "these are the things present NOW that make EVs not a reasonable across-the-board alternative to ICEs" . On the other hand we have "things will improve for EVs WHEN thus-and-so happens".

In other words, reality vs. wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is fine. But we have to live in the real world, and THAT reality is that EVs have a long way to go, if ever, before they become a reasonable alternative to the tried-and-true internal combustion engine.

If I give up my trips to MD and NY and the farthest I go is down to Tampa then tell me why an EV is not a reasonable alternative to a tried-and-true internal combustion engine TODAY.

My answer is that not only is it a reasonable alternative it is a desirable alternative and possibly the next vehicle I purchase.

[ThirdOfFive]

If I give up my trips to MD and NY and the farthest I go is down to Tampa then tell me why an EV is not a reasonable alternative to a tried-and-true internal combustion engine TODAY.

My answer is that not only is it a reasonable alternative it is a desirable alternative and possibly the next vehicle I purchase.
Indeed!

Which is why "across-the-board" was a consideration.

Of course EVs make sense for some. Here in Florida with year-round warm weather, relatively short trips compared to (say) Northwestern Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wyoming, etc., and the relatively ample supply of charging stations, they most certainly DO make sense for many. We're considering EV for our next golf cart, in fact.

But EVs have a long way to go before they're an across-the-board reasonable alternative for the majority of Americans.

[Bill14564]

Indeed!

Which is why "across-the-board" was a consideration.

Of course EVs make sense for some. Here in Florida with year-round warm weather, relatively short trips compared to (say) Northwestern Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wyoming, etc., and the relatively ample supply of charging stations, they most certainly DO make sense for many. We're considering EV for our next golf cart, in fact.

But EVs have a long way to go before they're an across-the-board reasonable alternative for the majority of Americans.

This I can agree with!

Improved range and/or improved refueling and lower prices are desperately needed.

[jimjamuser]

Apparently, you misunderstood my posts. Where was I saying that the EV is not for me? I never even said that the EV was a bad idea. I said it was an incomplete idea that was prematurely released with the intention of replacing the ICE. I also said that folks that support the EV are making excuses for it's limits. I also said that I own a battery powered golf cart and I add that I also own ONLY battery powered tools (except my saw). To be honest with you, I also find the battery powered tools that I own to be anemic compared to the same tools powered by fossil fuel. But, I did not wish to store gasoline in my garage. My preference.
Let me reiterate that when I read posts that state that the EV "will" be great eventually, or that the EV "is good IF" the weather is right, or they are charged over night in you garage (as if everyone has a garage). Or, the EV is fine if you don't have to travel a long way, or as long as you are not waiting in a line to charge it, etc. I hear a lot of excuses for them not being as good as ICE vehicles. So, I am sure you will agree that they are not yet ready for prime time, as I said a couple of times in response to those excuses. My motorcycle does not make claims as a replacement for a car. It is a novelty or luxury, nothing more. If an EV cannot meet th e standards or requirements of an ICE vehicle, it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury, not meant for real time.
As a side note......I prefer E-golf carts, E-bikes, and battery powered tools. As to the debate between E-vehicles and ICE vehicles - it is UNFAIR to even try to compare those at THIS VERY point in time. ICE vehicles have very little runway for improvement, whereas the E-vehicles are in chapter ONE of their development and have a LONG runway for further improvement. For those that want to, "hedge their bets" or EASE into the E-vehicle revolution - they might try the PLUG-IN type of hybrid, which is basically an E-vehicle with a small gas engine in reserve - thus a way today to AVOID range anxiety and still gain the E-vehicle advantages.
..........When people compare ICE versus E-vehicles there is more to that comparison than which vehicle goes from A to B. You need to factor in whether the A to B distance is too far for you without being very inconvenienced. Some people will realize that fossil fuels are running out and should be saved for medicine rather than just burnt into the atmosphere. And that brings up the CO2 in the upper atmosphere which is reflecting heat and warming the planet. Note : All the rain in Portland , Or. and Seattle did NOT just happen - if anyone paid ANY attention to some things that I have written, they know that the long term forecast is for 8 years of warmer air, which HOLDS more water (for rain).
............Another problem is that small gasoline engines like golf carts of smaller without catalytic converters have RECENTLY been discovered by medical scientists to put out small particles of pollutants that end up in human's lungs and even can migrate into their blood stream. So, imagine how much average lifetime those GAS engines are ROBBING from people !!!!!!

[Byte1]

I believe I understand you very well. Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking.

The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation. It was my only means of transportation for several years and my primary means for even more. In some environments it works well and in others it works poorly. Depending on what you need a car to to be able to do, it is a good replacement for a car.

An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do.

if you want to say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must run on gasoline then no, the EV does not fit the bill though a motorcycle will. If you say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must provide heating, air conditioning, and protection from the rain then an EV will work fine but a motorcycle will not. it all depends on your needs (or in your words, standards).

Apparently, an EV does not meet that standards *you* require for a prime-time vehicle. However, for many people an EV is quite sufficient. Perhaps the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Prius, Chevrolet Corvette, or BMW 350 all meet your standards for a prime-time vehicle. For someone in the west or north who has to drive on dirt roads or through six inches of snow or has to carry hay bails or pull a trailer, none of those vehicles is ready for prime time. Would you agree with them if they argued that if the vehicle did not meet those standards then it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury and not meant for real time?

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon.

"All EVs are nothing more than novelties or luxuries and are not meant for real time." That is not the case as nearly 10% of the driving public will attest to.

"Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking."== Bias? Okayyyyy:D If facts are considered "bias" I guess my comparing the EV to ICE is bias. Whatever.

"The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation" == So is a ski boat or jet skis, but since they are not a primary means of transportation, in most cases; or a preferred mode of transportation, then they are a luxury, just like a motorcycle. Yes, for some it is the only means of transportation they can afford, but to the rest it is a luxury and/or novelty. Yes, during the gas shortage when Carter was in, I used my motorcycle to get to work when getting gasoline was tough.

"An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do."== Once again, making excuses for the EV's shortcomings. Key term "depending on what you need the vehicle to..do."

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon." == Glad you agree.

Once again, I will reiterate what I have said (and many others have said) that you find offensive. EVs are not suitable for long trips. EVs take too long to refuel. EVs still do not have adequate stations to recharge. EVs cannot be charged from home if millions must park their vehicles on the street. EVs are not suitable for harsh weather. Your turn, compare the EV to the ICE and tell me where ANYTHING the EV is superior and how it is a better replacement. Please don't regurgitate the mantra that EVs are working on those problems and are almost there. If they haven't fixed those problems, then the EV is not ready for "Prime Time" as I like to say. By the way, if you think that EVs are better than ICE vehicles, then you are "biased" by your own words.
I fully intend to purchase an EV to replace my present car that gets 35-40mpg WHEN/WHEN the EV can get the 900 miles per charge that they are promising in the future and when the price comes down to what I am willing to pay for an ICE vehicle. That way, I will NEVER have to stand in line at a charging station.

[Bill14564]

"Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking."== Bias? Okayyyyy:D If facts are considered "bias" I guess my comparing the EV to ICE is bias. Whatever.

The fact is that you have a definition of what you consider to be a viable means of transportation and your definition is biased away from EVs. As I pointed out in a paragraph you did not include, yours is not the only definition of viable. Others have definitions that rule out anything smaller than a full-size SUV. An EV is not suitable for your needs - fine. An EV is suitable for the needs of many.


Once again, I will reiterate what I have said (and many others have said) that you find offensive. EVs are not suitable for long trips. EVs take too long to refuel. EVs still do not have adequate stations to recharge. EVs cannot be charged from home if millions must park their vehicles on the street. EVs are not suitable for harsh weather. Your turn, compare the EV to the ICE and tell me where ANYTHING the EV is superior and how it is a better replacement. Please don't regurgitate the mantra that EVs are working on those problems and are almost there. If they haven't fixed those problems, then the EV is not ready for "Prime Time" as I like to say. By the way, if you think that EVs are better than ICE vehicles, then you are "biased" by your own words.
I fully intend to purchase an EV to replace my present car that gets 35-40mpg WHEN/WHEN the EV can get the 900 miles per charge that they are promising in the future and when the price comes down to what I am willing to pay for an ICE vehicle. That way, I will NEVER have to stand in line at a charging station.

I never said the EV was superior though I can think of a couple ways that it is. I said the same thing three times now: An EV is a viable means of transportation (ready for prime time) for many people AND I can think of many people who would argue that a car is NOT a viable means of transportation. It all depends on what you need or want to do.

So when an EV can achieve the range that works for YOU and the price comes down to what YOU are willing to pay then YOU will declare it ready for prime time?

[Byte1]

As a side note......I prefer E-golf carts, E-bikes, and battery powered tools. As to the debate between E-vehicles and ICE vehicles - it is UNFAIR to even try to compare those at THIS VERY point in time. ICE vehicles have very little runway for improvement, whereas the E-vehicles are in chapter ONE of their development and have a LONG runway for further improvement. For those that want to, "hedge their bets" or EASE into the E-vehicle revolution - they might try the PLUG-IN type of hybrid, which is basically an E-vehicle with a small gas engine in reserve - thus a way today to AVOID range anxiety and still gain the E-vehicle advantages.
..........When people compare ICE versus E-vehicles there is more to that comparison than which vehicle goes from A to B. You need to factor in whether the A to B distance is too far for you without being very inconvenienced. Some people will realize that fossil fuels are running out and should be saved for medicine rather than just burnt into the atmosphere. And that brings up the CO2 in the upper atmosphere which is reflecting heat and warming the planet. Note : All the rain in Portland , Or. and Seattle did NOT just happen - if anyone paid ANY attention to some things that I have written, they know that the long term forecast is for 8 years of warmer air, which HOLDS more water (for rain).
............Another problem is that small gasoline engines like golf carts of smaller without catalytic converters have RECENTLY been discovered by medical scientists to put out small particles of pollutants that end up in human's lungs and even can migrate into their blood stream. So, imagine how much average lifetime those GAS engines are ROBBING from people !!!!!!

My parents grew up in a smog filled city, where you never saw the stars through the smog. One living into his mid 90's and the other is still alive, I think the hysteria over a shorter life due to gas engines is quite the hype. I am glad that you agree that EVs are not ready for the majority of our citizens. As you say, they have a long way to go to equal the benefits of an ICE. As for ICE vehicles being peaked out when it comes to innovation, I beg to differ with you. There are other forms of fuel that combustion engines can run on that may improve their exhaust. And as for oil being in short supply, I will make you a bet that even if we ever run out in our lifetime, there will be another substitute that will power the ICE veh that will work just as well, and possibly fit in the "Greenies" criteria of protecting the trees. By the way, I am surprised that someone that suggested reducing the human population to help global warming, would be concerned about the longevity of the population's lifespan. :D

[Byte1]

The fact is that you have a definition of what you consider to be a viable means of transportation and your definition is biased away from EVs. As I pointed out in a paragraph you did not include, yours is not the only definition of viable. Others have definitions that rule out anything smaller than a full-size SUV. An EV is not suitable for your needs - fine. An EV is suitable for the needs of many.




I never said the EV was superior though I can think of a couple ways that it is. I said the same thing three times now: An EV is a viable means of transportation (ready for prime time) for many people AND I can think of many people who would argue that a car is NOT a viable means of transportation. It all depends on what you need or want to do.

So when an EV can achieve the range that works for YOU and the price comes down to what YOU are willing to pay then YOU will declare it ready for prime time?

Yes, and bicycles are "viable" means of transportation to many in other countries. You are still stipulating limitations on the EV. For those in the Villages, most can rely solely on golf carts for all their needs. However, if they need to exit the Villages, they will have to utilize a shuttle bus or taxi (both likely ICE powered). You have admitted that the EV is not ready for the higher abilities of the ICE vehicle. When I mention a limitation, you accuse me of being biased in my objective rationalization.
I mentioned the obvious in my statement that those posters on here that said that someday the EV will be equal to the ICE, are making excuses for the EV's limits today. It's kind of like selling a car with no wheels and saying that the designer has not yet invented them, but the engine is turning.
I say, make the vehicle viable as a "common" mode of transport before attempting to make it a primary replacement for the existing mode of transport. And anyone that says that we are not being forced into a substandard mode of transportation by the powers that be, is fooling themselves, not us. They need to listen or read the news.
I am not attempting to convince you or anyone else. I am merely disagreeing with the assumption that the EV is ready as an EQUAL replacement for the ICE. And obviously, those that are arguing, have proven my statement right when they admit that the EV still has a long way to go. Personally, I think the ICE also has a long way to go in improvements.

[jimjamuser]

"Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking."== Bias? Okayyyyy:D If facts are considered "bias" I guess my comparing the EV to ICE is bias. Whatever.

"The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation" == So is a ski boat or jet skis, but since they are not a primary means of transportation, in most cases; or a preferred mode of transportation, then they are a luxury, just like a motorcycle. Yes, for some it is the only means of transportation they can afford, but to the rest it is a luxury and/or novelty. Yes, during the gas shortage when Carter was in, I used my motorcycle to get to work when getting gasoline was tough.

"An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do."== Once again, making excuses for the EV's shortcomings. Key term "depending on what you need the vehicle to..do."

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon." == Glad you agree.

Once again, I will reiterate what I have said (and many others have said) that you find offensive. EVs are not suitable for long trips. EVs take too long to refuel. EVs still do not have adequate stations to recharge. EVs cannot be charged from home if millions must park their vehicles on the street. EVs are not suitable for harsh weather. Your turn, compare the EV to the ICE and tell me where ANYTHING the EV is superior and how it is a better replacement. Please don't regurgitate the mantra that EVs are working on those problems and are almost there. If they haven't fixed those problems, then the EV is not ready for "Prime Time" as I like to say. By the way, if you think that EVs are better than ICE vehicles, then you are "biased" by your own words.
I fully intend to purchase an EV to replace my present car that gets 35-40mpg WHEN/WHEN the EV can get the 900 miles per charge that they are promising in the future and when the price comes down to what I am willing to pay for an ICE vehicle. That way, I will NEVER have to stand in line at a charging station.
"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

[melpetezrinski]

If that is true, why are the car companies losing $10's of thousands of $$$ on every EV sold?

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

[Byte1]

"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

Key term "FUTURE." Like I said before and you admit, it ain't ready for prime time today.
I don't see where being faster to accelerate is deal breaker when going to purchase. But, I am not young anymore and "peeling wheels" is not in my to do list.

"Zero trips to the gas stations and gas lines"??? Are you serious? Twenty mins to charge to 80%? Two cars in front of you waiting to charge means you wait an hour (waste an hour) in your trip.

"Global health and longevity"?? I'm sure folks are concerned about living past 100, right?
"..roll over"??? Been driving for over 60 years and have yet to "roll over." But, if you are worried about rolling over, definitely get a heavier car.

"no transmission"??? Great and an ICE is a ton lighter because it doesn't have to cart around a bunch of batteries. ICE cars are still on the road that were created in the 50's. Think EVs will last that long? Shoot, the batteries are good for about 10 years and cost as much to replace as the cost of an ICE vehicle. Took a little exaggerated leeway on that part, but you get the idea.

So, when did you purchase your EV? Like I said before, I might live long enough to purchase an EV when they are as good as an ICE and as inexpensive to purchase. All I am asking is that I can drive 500-600 miles per day without having to recharge during my trip, not worried about freezing to death in cold weather when the batteries run down, and not worried about it combusting in flooded conditions. Until they can compete with ICE cars, the EV is a luxury/novelty that I won't be spending money on, UNLESS I hit the power ball.

[BrianL99]

Tesla is profitable!

I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

[Byte1]

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

And the average working Joe can easily afford the cost of a new Tesla, right?
As you said, a person takes a trip or test drives an EV and they become the expert. I am sure that I would enjoy a ride in a Tesla. I rode in a Rolls once, but that did not mean I intended on purchasing one. Talk about a heavy car!
I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

[Topspinmo]

"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

EV will never be majority of vehicles on road till at least 30 years. By that time we won’t be around to argue about it.

So how do you think most electricity is produced? By wind which seems to know a lot about. Future? In 30 to 100 years maybe. If there still economy to afford them.

[Topspinmo]

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.


Nobody cares about fly over states. Deforestation has be taken place for 50 years or more. Next they will be flattening the high shape hills so there won’t be tree in site. Of course they will use EVs to do job cause diesel power so 20th century. :cryin2:

Tesla’s are good EV’s with system in place most places. But they are less than .5% on roads. Besides nobody knows how they will fair in rust belt when salt starts eating away the under side.

[melpetezrinski]

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.


No, I'm not an expert but I'm certainly more knowledgeable than you! You DON'T charge a Tesla to 80%. See, more knowledgeable. You charge to 60-65% and that gives you 180-200 miles. If you need more, get an ICE.

[BrianL99]

I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

NO!

You install an outdoor outlet at your front door and purchase the best extension cord you can find, wrap it around the "reel" you mount to the front of your house. When you get home and park at the curb, you unroll the extension cord & plug in your car. (Make sure you unplug and rewind the cord, before your wife cuts the lawn).

Ready to go in the morning, provided the neighborhood brats didn't unplug it, in the middle of the night.

[melpetezrinski]

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.


And the great thing about the supercharger network is that the Tesla computer in the car tells you exactly where to stop, how many spots are open, pictures and video cameras, how much juice you will have when you get there and for the next stop, restaurants nearby and how long to charge. And you guessed it, is says to charge to approximately 60% NOT 80. But hey, what do I know, I'm not an expert. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

[JMintzer]

You keep insisting that an EV is not the right car for YOU and therefore it is not the right car for ANYONE. There are people in western states that would never buy a car over a truck because they don't have the ground clearance for the back roads and are terrible in the snow. Does that mean that cars are bad or does it mean that their situation requires something that cars cannot provide?

If you frequently drive longer distances and don't have the time to spend at a charging station then an EV as your only vehicle would not work for you. I am currently in that situation but I recognize that others are not, I was not until recently, and I will not be in the future. I wish I had an EV when I was commuting 40 miles to work, it would have saved a huge amount in gas. My family in NY stays withing a 100 mile radius so they would greatly benefit from gas savings. When I stop taking long trips (including driving up to see them) then I will purchase an EV to save on gas. MANY people find an EV to be great today.

It's sad that you spend so much energy trying to convince others that they have made bad choices when clearly, many are very happy with their EVs. As for buyer's remorse, others regret buying that luxury BMW that turns out to be expensive to maintain and operate. I drive a luxury car today but I am really looking forward to the day my driving needs fit the capabilities of an EV so that I can trade up to one of those.

You do realize that the your initial argument is the exact thing we're disagreeing with?

It's those (and we're all quite aware of who they are) who insist, ad nauseam, that EVs are the end all, save all for humanity who are the problem.

I, for example, have continued to repeat that EVs are not the right vehicle FOR ME, at this time. And that if they improve in milage, or MY needs change, I would consider purchasing one...

[JMintzer]

TRUE that E-vehicles are in their INFANCY. That needs to be kept in mind. Right now EVs are in a stage of development similar to the early MODEL T Fords. EVs have SO MANY advantages such as reliability, lower center of gravity, better acceleration, less chance of a roll-over, and even one that is NOT often reported------------ease of manufacturing. That manufacturing ease SHOULD eventually put DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the sticker price.
...........Any battery problems and range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past in about 6 years. In Europe new vehicle sales are around 20% for EVs. So, it is likely that the US will get to THAT percentage soon.

Yes, a Tesla is just like a Model T...

And thank you for proving the point I just made...

[jimjamuser]

My parents grew up in a smog filled city, where you never saw the stars through the smog. One living into his mid 90's and the other is still alive, I think the hysteria over a shorter life due to gas engines is quite the hype. I am glad that you agree that EVs are not ready for the majority of our citizens. As you say, they have a long way to go to equal the benefits of an ICE. As for ICE vehicles being peaked out when it comes to innovation, I beg to differ with you. There are other forms of fuel that combustion engines can run on that may improve their exhaust. And as for oil being in short supply, I will make you a bet that even if we ever run out in our lifetime, there will be another substitute that will power the ICE veh that will work just as well, and possibly fit in the "Greenies" criteria of protecting the trees. By the way, I am surprised that someone that suggested reducing the human population to help global warming, would be concerned about the longevity of the population's lifespan. :D
I did NOT say that EVs are NOT ready for the majority of US citizens. Rather that the majority of our citizens are NOT ready to embrace EVs - and this is because people and corporations RESIST change. If people realized the environmental NEED for cleaner air and water, they would flock to EVs and accept some small inconveniences associated with them. And I never said the next sentence about benefits of ICE versus EVs. As I explained in post # 165 ICE vehicles have zero advantages over EVs today. In 1940 when there were only 80 million people in the US and factory pollution was rampant, the additional car and truck pollution was not significant. And people smoked cigars and cigarettes so their lungs were already shot.
.........But the times changed and factories moved to China, catalytic converters were mandated, and US population became 350 million people. With that many cars, trucks, golf carts, and small gas engines producing CO2 - it drifted upwards to the upper atmosphere and began reflecting HEAT, which keeps killing off plant and animal species. 2023 so far has been THE WARMEST in recorded History. China has a much larger population than the US and they are all starting to want automobiles. The graph of world population is practically straight up in recent years. Some famous old-time philosopher said that wars and pestilence keep the earth's population under control. Well, we had Covid which killed millions and now we have wars in the middle east that have the potential to kill that many and we have the nuclear bombs to do it with.

[Bill14564]

You do realize that the your initial argument is the exact thing we're disagreeing with?

It's those (and we're all quite aware of who they are) who insist, ad nauseam, that EVs are the end all, save all for humanity who are the problem.

I, for example, have continued to repeat that EVs are not the right vehicle FOR ME, at this time. And that if they improve in milage, or MY needs change, I would consider purchasing one...

It feels like there are different arguments happening. I absolutely agree with your other posts - I just gave up looking at the poster you are disagreeing with some time ago. Some posters are so out I left field that they are no longer worth my time.

[JMintzer]

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

Yes, Tesla's profits have dropped by 44%...

Tesla’s Quarterly Profits Plunge 44% - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/tesla-third-quarter-earnings.html)

And you're correct. Along the 95 corridor, there are plenty of charging stations. Unfortunately, that is not what is available for the rest of the country...

And you would be wrong. I have driven (and rode in) a Tesla. Cool car, but nothing that special...

[JMintzer]

And the average working Joe can easily afford the cost of a new Tesla, right?
As you said, a person takes a trip or test drives an EV and they become the expert. I am sure that I would enjoy a ride in a Tesla. I rode in a Rolls once, but that did not mean I intended on purchasing one. Talk about a heavy car!
I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

Don't forget the hundreds of cars per apartment building in most cities...

The power draw would be unfathomable...

But sure, let's mandate that more and more must be produced and purchased per year...

My late mother in law lived in a condo in Boca. There were well over 100 cars parked in her garage. There were TWO EV chargers available...

[JMintzer]

NO!

You install an outdoor outlet at your front door and purchase the best extension cord you can find, wrap it around the "reel" you mount to the front of your house. When you get home and park at the curb, you unroll the extension cord & plug in your car. (Make sure you unplug and rewind the cord, before your wife cuts the lawn).

Ready to go in the morning, provided the neighborhood brats didn't unplug it, in the middle of the night.

That "best extension cord" would be stolen within the first week...

Not to mention the lawsuit you'll have if and when someone trips over your extension cord as it crosses the sidewalk...

I await your solution for apartments... :D:1rotfl::D

[JMintzer]

And the great thing about the supercharger network is that the Tesla computer in the car tells you exactly where to stop, how many spots are open, pictures and video cameras, how much juice you will have when you get there and for the next stop, restaurants nearby and how long to charge. And you guessed it, is says to charge to approximately 60% NOT 80. But hey, what do I know, I'm not an expert. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

That's great, IF you live in certain areas... You know, where they actually HAVE Tesla charging stations...

Remember the Ford CEO who took a long trip in one of his own EVs and was quite dismayed by the experience?

'It was a really good reality check': Ford's CEO admits EV charging was 'challenging' during F-150 Lightning road trip — here are 3 big long-distance issues electric drivers face (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/charging-pretty-challenging-fords-ceo-110000710.html)

[Topspinmo]

That "best extension cord" would be stolen within the first week...

Not to mention the lawsuit you'll have if and when someone trips over your extension cord as it crosses the sidewalk...

I await your solution for apartments... :D:1rotfl::D

Read where England has big problem with plug in stations plug in cords being stolen for copper.

[JMintzer]

Read where England has big problem with plug in stations plug in cords being stolen for copper.

Happening on this side of the pond, as well...

EV Charging Cables Become New Theft Target - Kelley Blue Book (https://www.kbb.com/car-news/ev-charging-cables-become-new-theft-target/)

Copper thieves have new target: electric vehicle charging stations – KIRO 7 News Seattle (https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/copper-thieves-have-new-target-electric-vehicle-charging-stations/635DX4LIGVASVOLWBKKAJBUUAY/)

Caught on camera: Thieves now targeting one pricey electric car part – NBC Los Angeles (https://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/thieves-now-targeting-one-pricey-electric-car-part/3187391/)

[Topspinmo]

I did NOT say that EVs are NOT ready for the majority of US citizens. Rather that the majority of our citizens are NOT ready to embrace EVs - and this is because people and corporations RESIST change. If people realized the environmental NEED for cleaner air and water, they would flock to EVs and accept some small inconveniences associated with them. And I never said the next sentence about benefits of ICE versus EVs. As I explained in post # 165 ICE vehicles have zero advantages over EVs today. In 1940 when there were only 80 million people in the US and factory pollution was rampant, the additional car and truck pollution was not significant. And people smoked cigars and cigarettes so their lungs were already shot.
.........But the times changed and factories moved to China, catalytic converters were mandated, and US population became 350 million people. With that many cars, trucks, golf carts, and small gas engines producing CO2 - it drifted upwards to the upper atmosphere and began reflecting HEAT, which keeps killing off plant and animal species. 2023 so far has been THE WARMEST in recorded History. China has a much larger population than the US and they are all starting to want automobiles. The graph of world population is practically straight up in recent years. Some famous old-time philosopher said that wars and pestilence keep the earth's population under control. Well, we had Covid which killed millions and now we have wars in the middle east that have the potential to kill that many and we have the nuclear bombs to do it with.


Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1HggcfnHpo

Sure sounds like it.

[lawgolfer]

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

Your personal experience is all well and good. That doesn't change the fact that exchanging 290.8M IC vehicles for 290.8M EV's is, at best, a fantasy, or, more properly, a delusion.

As for personal experience, I've driven I 5 in California during both Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks. The traffic jams at the Tesla Supercharger stations were almost as bad as the parking lots at Costco. Frustrated Tesla drivers were close to engaging in physical violence. I didn't stay around to count the minutes, but it had to take many Tesla drivers several hours to get a charge sufficient to get them back on the road.

When California experienced an electricity shortage, Governor Hairgel asked people to forgo charging their EV's, the same vehicles he is trying to force them to buy.

[JMintzer]

Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1HggcfnHpo

Sure sounds like it.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/8Iv5lqKwKsZ2g/giphy.gif

[Velvet]

Sounds like EVs are for young people who don’t mind hitch hiking.

[Inspector Mark]

I am very later to this post and admit I only read the first few pages. I did a quick google search on the number of gas stations in Vermont and came up with over 4,000. This is why I would never own an EV until the range is at 400 miles and the charging stations equal gas stations

Why would I want to limit myself and make travel hard.

I know EV may be he future, and thank you to the pioneers, but I'll wait until it's an even trade before I jump in.

[oldtimes]

Governor Hairgel:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Key term "FUTURE." Like I said before and you admit, it ain't ready for prime time today.
I don't see where being faster to accelerate is deal breaker when going to purchase. But, I am not young anymore and "peeling wheels" is not in my to do list.

"Zero trips to the gas stations and gas lines"??? Are you serious? Twenty mins to charge to 80%? Two cars in front of you waiting to charge means you wait an hour (waste an hour) in your trip.

"Global health and longevity"?? I'm sure folks are concerned about living past 100, right?
"..roll over"??? Been driving for over 60 years and have yet to "roll over." But, if you are worried about rolling over, definitely get a heavier car.

"no transmission"??? Great and an ICE is a ton lighter because it doesn't have to cart around a bunch of batteries. ICE cars are still on the road that were created in the 50's. Think EVs will last that long? Shoot, the batteries are good for about 10 years and cost as much to replace as the cost of an ICE vehicle. Took a little exaggerated leeway on that part, but you get the idea.

So, when did you purchase your EV? Like I said before, I might live long enough to purchase an EV when they are as good as an ICE and as inexpensive to purchase. All I am asking is that I can drive 500-600 miles per day without having to recharge during my trip, not worried about freezing to death in cold weather when the batteries run down, and not worried about it combusting in flooded conditions. Until they can compete with ICE cars, the EV is a luxury/novelty that I won't be spending money on, UNLESS I hit the power ball.
It IS zero trips to the gas station if you have an EV and you can charge it from your home - that applies to a lot of potential EV buyers. The EV's lower center of gravity allows it to stop faster as well as accelerate faster than a comparable ICE with comparable brakes. There are better health outcomes with EVs other than living longer (to 100 or more). EVs reduce the pollution in the air to promote more healthful breathing for ANY age group and I know many over 65 Villagers that would be helped by better breathing. Also, there was a roll-over accident with a gas golf cart last week. And many alcohol induced roll-overs in gas golf carts every year here in TV Land.

[sounding]

The EV (green) push is a nightmare because it's a solution to a non-problem. Visit the Weather Club to hear why there is no climate change emergency, and why climate alarmist narratives are based on junk science ... The Villages Weather Club (https://www.theweatherclubvillages.com/)

My wife and I went to Vermont to enjoy the colors and cooler weather.
When we arrived the car rental company said they only had a Chevy Bolt EV. I tried to see if they had anything else and the answer was no.
We took off and when we crossed into Vermont we stopped at the welcome center and asked about charging stations and the guy laughed at us. He said he only had a list of 14 stations in the state.
We spent the the next day trying to go from charger to charger. 195 Mike range and over an hour to get to 80% charge. We lost two days watching the power display and could not focus on the scenery.
On day two we made it to Montpelier which was supposed to have 3 stations. 1st didn't work, second had unattended vehicle plugged in, and third was destroyed like someone took a hammer to it.
35 miles of charge left and 40 miles to nearest airport we took off, turned of radio and heater and pulled into car rental with 1 mile left.
Totally screwed 2 full days of vacation time. Don't fall for this EV crap. They are a joke and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars.

[Papa_lecki]

The EV's lower center of gravity allows it to stop faster as well as accelerate faster than a comparable ICE with comparable brakes.

I thought we were all about staying under the speed limit - or is that only golf carts.
Unless you’re on the turnpike, why do you need fast acceleration to go 30 or 35 MPH?

[Bay Kid]

I am very later to this post and admit I only read the first few pages. I did a quick google search on the number of gas stations in Vermont and came up with over 4,000. This is why I would never own an EV until the range is at 400 miles and the charging stations equal gas stations

Why would I want to limit myself and make travel hard.

I know EV may be he future, and thank you to the pioneers, but I'll wait until it's an even trade before I jump in.

After 500 miles I pull into the gas station of choice, fill up in under 5 minutes, then I'm good for another 500 miles.

[sounding]

After 500 miles I pull into the gas station of choice, fill up in under 5 minutes, then I'm good for another 500 miles.

Anything that comes with government subsidies is an abuse of taxpayer monies.

[Topspinmo]

It IS zero trips to the gas station if you have an EV and you can charge it from your home - that applies to a lot of potential EV buyers. The EV's lower center of gravity allows it to stop faster as well as accelerate faster than a comparable ICE with comparable brakes. There are better health outcomes with EVs other than living longer (to 100 or more). EVs reduce the pollution in the air to promote more healthful breathing for ANY age group and I know many over 65 Villagers that would be helped by better breathing. Also, there was a roll-over accident with a gas golf cart last week. And many alcohol induced roll-overs in gas golf carts every year here in TV Land.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1HggcfnHpo

[bopat]

After 500 miles I pull into the gas station of choice, fill up in under 5 minutes, then I'm good for another 500 miles.


In my EV, I leave my house with a "full tank" of electricity. Saves a lot of time over going to a dirty gas station, filling with gas and getting a lung full of gas fumes.
I never have to do any maintenance like oil changes. That also saves time.

Every day driving I save hours.
On a long trip I stop every 200-300 miles, get out and use the restroom and get a snack, and spend maybe 10 minutes eating the snack, and the car's ready to go.

So I'm probably + (plus) a few hours on all my cumulative cross country trips, and - (minus) days worth of time with my everyday driving and lack of required maintenance and replacing broken ICE car parts over the life of the car.

But the beauty of an EV is way beyond just saving time over an ICE vehicle, it is the future.

Just look at the new Cybertruck. No more 12 volt architecture, all 48 volts! That's a change that's been long overdue!

[JMintzer]

It IS zero trips to the gas station if you have an EV and you can charge it from your home - that applies to a lot of potential EV buyers. The EV's lower center of gravity allows it to stop faster as well as accelerate faster than a comparable ICE with comparable brakes. There are better health outcomes with EVs other than living longer (to 100 or more). EVs reduce the pollution in the air to promote more healthful breathing for ANY age group and I know many over 65 Villagers that would be helped by better breathing. Also, there was a roll-over accident with a gas golf cart last week. And many alcohol induced roll-overs in gas golf carts every year here in TV Land.

So you're saying they have better accelerartion and a lower center of gravity?

And this is important?

Oh, and charging is so easy... Except for those w/o a garage, or those living in apartment buildings and condos...

And could you refresh my memory... What type of EV do you own?

[melpetezrinski]

That's great, IF you live in certain areas... You know, where they actually HAVE Tesla charging stations...

Remember the Ford CEO who took a long trip in one of his own EVs and was quite dismayed by the experience?

'It was a really good reality check': Ford's CEO admits EV charging was 'challenging' during F-150 Lightning road trip — here are 3 big long-distance issues electric drivers face (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/charging-pretty-challenging-fords-ceo-110000710.html)


Turn off the TV, research the topic in questions and then post your informed opinions. Did you even read the link that you posted? Was there any mention of Tesla superchargers?

[JMintzer]

In my EV, I leave my house with a "full tank" of electricity. Saves a lot of time over going to a dirty gas station, filling with gas and getting a lung full of gas fumes.
I never have to do any maintenance like oil changes. That also saves time.

Every day driving I save hours.
On a long trip I stop every 200-300 miles, get out and use the restroom and get a snack, and spend maybe 10 minutes eating the snack, and the car's ready to go.

So I'm probably + (plus) a few hours on all my cumulative cross country trips, and - (minus) days worth of time with my everyday driving and lack of required maintenance and replacing broken ICE car parts over the life of the car.

But the beauty of an EV is way beyond just saving time over an ICE vehicle, it is the future.

Just look at the new Cybertruck. No more 12 volt architecture, all 48 volts! That's a change that's been long overdue!

The new Cybertruck is getting dismal reviews... Which is surprising...

[melpetezrinski]

Yes, Tesla's profits have dropped by 44%...

Tesla’s Quarterly Profits Plunge 44% - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/tesla-third-quarter-earnings.html)

And you're correct. Along the 95 corridor, there are plenty of charging stations. Unfortunately, that is not what is available for the rest of the country...

And you would be wrong. I have driven (and rode in) a Tesla. Cool car, but nothing that special...


OK, I'm WRONG. See how easy it is. Now, you try it without yeah butts. Tesla is profitable, you were wrong. Now, your turn.

[Bill14564]

So you're saying they have better accelerartion and a lower center of gravity?

And this is important?

...

What might be important is his statement is not true. Center of gravity has nothing to do with acceleration or deceleration. (and an electric cart DOES NOT have a lower center of gravity but that was from a different post of his)

[bopat]

The new Cybertruck is getting dismal reviews... Which is surprising...

This guy's got around 18 million subscribers, and 16.5 million views on his review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxOh12Uhg08

This guy's got around 3 million subscribers, and 4.1 million views on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg

Here's a review from Top Gear:
Tesla Cybertruck Review 2023 | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/cybertruck)

They all seem pretty positive.

[JMintzer]

This guy's got around 18 million subscribers, and 16.5 million views on his review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxOh12Uhg08

This guy's got around 3 million subscribers, and 4.1 million views on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg

Here's a review from Top Gear:
Tesla Cybertruck Review 2023 | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/cybertruck)

They all seem pretty positive.

Yes... Those reviews are positive...

But what do you know! Others have different opinions!

negative cybertruck reviews - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=negative+cybertruck+reviews&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS873US874&oq=negative+cybertruck+reviews&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigAdIBCDk0OD BqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

[Topspinmo]

Biden signed another executive order to eliminate all coal fired power plants.
Think about that. It will reduce the available power generation across the entire country. Any replacement power will need to come from natural gas, solar, or wind.
Using natural gas will drive up the cost of all oil derived energy. Building new power plants is expensive. Solar and wind are not reliable as supplying the base load needed to run the country. More EVs will create more demand - a lot of that at night - when wind and solar produces nothing.

One good think about executive’s orders, the next guy can trash them with stroke of pen.