Are there options for solar other than on the roof?

[Fastskiguy]

Does anybody out there have solar panels in any location other than their roof? I'm thinking solar trees or things like this maybe

Solar Flower Designs with SmartFlower — The Future is Here! (https://smartflower.com/products/)

or

Solar Flower | Curve from Spotlight Solar — Beautiful Solar Structures | Spotlight Solar (https://spotlightsolar.com/solar-flower-curve)

Or even just a small set of panels on the ground? Or is this just kinda "not an option here"?

Thanks :)

Joe

[villagetinker]

I have been wondering the same thing, a ground installation is much easier to maintain, easier to install, etc. I guess you could start with ARC and call in to ask the question, and if necessary fill out a no cost application. After I get done with current project, I may look into this myself.

[tophcfa]

Does anybody out there have solar panels in any location other than their roof? I'm thinking solar trees or things like this maybe

Solar Flower Designs with SmartFlower — The Future is Here! (https://smartflower.com/products/)

or

Solar Flower | Curve from Spotlight Solar — Beautiful Solar Structures | Spotlight Solar (https://spotlightsolar.com/solar-flower-curve)

Or even just a small set of panels on the ground? Or is this just kinda "not an option here"?

Thanks :)

Joe

Interesting idea, see banks of panels on the ground frequently up north where government subsidies are a plenty. Hard to see these fitting in on the postage stamp sized Villages lots.

[Arctic Fox]

Does anybody out there have solar panels in any location other than their roof? I'm thinking solar trees or things like this maybe...

I didn't see any pricing, but I suspect that basic roof panels would give a much better return on your investment. However, nice to have options, and they are art, too.

[asianthree]

Problem with lots in TV is lot lines are so close, shading would be an issue, unless you lived on a corner or backed up to a street, or ponds and such.

[BrianL99]

Does anybody out there have solar panels in any location other than their roof? I'm thinking solar trees or things like this maybe

Solar Flower Designs with SmartFlower — The Future is Here! (https://smartflower.com/products/)

or

Solar Flower | Curve from Spotlight Solar — Beautiful Solar Structures | Spotlight Solar (https://spotlightsolar.com/solar-flower-curve)

Or even just a small set of panels on the ground? Or is this just kinda "not an option here"?

Thanks :)

Joe

There are a myriad of ways to generate solar power and no, it doesn't always have to be on your roof. It won't be long before actual "roofing materials" will also function as "solar panels". I've seen some early prototypes and it's a pretty neat idea, but not yet ready for prime time.

Florida is similar to most other states. No city, town, HOA, deed restriction, etc., may serve to prohibit or unreasonably inhibit the installation of Solar Panels. It violates public policy.

Florida Solar Rights Act - FSEC(R) (https://energyresearch.ucf.edu/consumer/energy-policy/florida-solar-rights-act/)

Florida COA and HOA Restrictions on Solar Panels; What You Need To Know - Member News - Seminole County Chamber (https://business.seminolebusiness.org/news/details/florida-coa-and-hoa-restrictions-on-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know)

Can Anything Be Done About Solar Panels? | Florida Condo & HOA Law Blog (https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2022/04/28/can-anything-be-done-about-solar-panels/)

All that said, if you're thinking it's going to save you any money on energy, the "pay back" on Solar isn't great, particular with small systems. I'm doing a $2..5M system on a building near Boston right now. Our payback will be around 12 years and we have state and federal incentives (SREC stabilization, MACRS, etc.) to help, plus net metering. You can generate more power with Florida sunshine, but I don't know if they're as aggressive with incentives/subsidies as in the Northeast.

You can learn about the Federal Tax Credits, here: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/residential-clean-energy-credit

[BrianL99]

....

[Two Bills]

When we refurbished our present house in UK. which is in a rural area, and solely electric, we were told we would need 10-12 solar panels to cover the electricity amount we would use..
Any excess production during periods of low use would be purchased by National Grid at market price.
High usage pays back initial costs in 6-8 years.
Low usage was 15-20 years.
At that time we spent our winters in warmer climes, so just on the economics at that time, considered the payback time as too long.
Our circumstances have since changed, and no longer spend our winters away, so have become high users.
Given the chance again, and with a new build, or total house renovation, I would opt for installing the panels, long payoff time or not.

We went with Air source Heating instead, which is also very good and efficient when air temperatures are higher.
However, during times of peak demand, air temps are at their lowest, and the system is not very efficient, or economical.
It also only heats water, and our heating system, and does not produce any electricity of its own
It actually needs electricity to power itself, unlike solar panels.
With the cost of power these days, our last years electric cost us £3900 ($4680 app.)

Given the amount of sunshine hours in Florida, I would not hesitate to use solar energy in some form or another.
We made a mistake with our choice using short term circumstances, and economics, but there you go, 'Hindsight is a wonderful thing!'

[Dusty_Star]

The Smart Flowers in the first link look very interesting. They also look fairly large, but are still probably easier to maintain than roof panels. I wonder how / if they would fit into The Villages landcapes? Part of the advertising says that they automatically fold up & clean at sunset. I wonder if they can be manually (via an app) closed, for instance during high winds.

Does anyone know if our electric companies 'buy back' excess energy consumption? I suppose if they don't then there would be the additional cost of batteries to store excess power for when there is no energy production.

[BrianL99]

Does anyone know if our electric companies 'buy back' excess energy consumption? I suppose if they don't then there would be the additional cost of batteries to store excess power for when there is no energy production.

It's called "Net Metering". It's under attack by the Florida legislature. I believe it's current available from all Investor Owned Utility companies. (Florida Power & Light (FPL), Duke Energy Florida, Tampa Electric Company (TECO), Florida Public Utilities Corporation). Other utility companies can offer it at their discretion.

Guide to Net Metering in Florida - 2023 Update (https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/florida-net-metering-guide)

The "battery storage" is typically not practical, which is a major drawback to Solar at a consumer level.

[Bill14564]

Does anyone know if our electric companies 'buy back' excess energy consumption? I suppose if they don't then there would be the additional cost of batteries to store excess power for when there is no energy production.

It's called "Net Metering". It's under attack by the Florida legislature. I believe it's current available from all Investor Owned Utility companies. (Florida Power & Light (FPL), Duke Energy Florida, Tampa Electric Company (TECO), Florida Public Utilities Corporation). Other utility companies can offer it at their discretion.

Guide to Net Metering in Florida - 2023 Update (https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/florida-net-metering-guide)

The "battery storage" is typically not practical, which is a major drawback to Solar at a consumer level.

From the link above, SECO buys back power at their wholesale rate (less than what we pay) combined with the PCA rate. They give an example where a consumer purchases power at $0.0821 per KWH but sells it back at $0.0650 per KWH. Better than nothing but not as good as those that use the retail rate.

Batteries are not required in any case. A battery wall may run your home for a few minutes (hours?) in the case of a power outage; not for very long but then again, our outages are fairly short when they occur.

[JerryLBell]

Seems like you'd need a fairly good-sized yard to fit one of those between your house and the next. I'm sure there are yards big enough for that in The Villages, but they are few and far between and most likely come with a hefty price. Still, that's a cool idea that doesn't mess up your roof warranty or make it that much harder to replace the roof when needed.

[Inspector Mark]

Typically you have over 2000 sq ft of unused roof space to use. Most people would not want to give up the much yard space for solar panels. Like the thread on EV's, the technology is not there yet that makes these things feasibly.

[Papa_lecki]

The company offers two main products: The grid-connected Smartflower consisting of the self-cleaning, sun tracking energy station, and the Smartflower Plus, which adds an 11-kilowatt lithium battery and can be grid-tied or fully off-grid.

Each Sunflower costs $40,000 or 65,000 for the PLUS model (add on shipping and installation).

Smartflower Solar Review: Beautiful Solar for Up to $65,000 - CNET (https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/smartflower-solar-review-beautiful-solar-sculpture/)

Their market is commercial properties

[Bill14564]

The company offers two main products: The grid-connected Smartflower consisting of the self-cleaning, sun tracking energy station, and the Smartflower Plus, which adds an 11-kilowatt lithium battery and can be grid-tied or fully off-grid.

Each Sunflower costs $40,000 or 65,000 for the PLUS model (add on shipping and installation).

Smartflower Solar Review: Beautiful Solar for Up to $65,000 - CNET (https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/smartflower-solar-review-beautiful-solar-sculpture/)

Their market is commercial properties

My usage is between 20KWH and 40KWH per day which means an 11KW battery would last 6-12 hours. Certainly enough to handle most of the power outages I've seen in the five years I've been here but at a pretty significant cost.

[Berwin]

I'm waiting on an electric car with a solar panel on top to charge it when parked outside. (There are some prototypes coming out.) But really, where we moved from in Virginia there were five houses on our block with solar on the roof. I talked with one of those neighbors about it and he said many months their electric bill was the $5.00 mandatory minimum. These were the type where the power company bought back your excess electricity. My next door neighbor, however, insisted it was a government plot to install new electric meters that let the deep state turn off your electricity via satellite on command (not kidding). I heard he died of a heart attack the week after we moved down here. Too bad, he'd have fit right in down here.

[Ptmcbriz]

Does anybody out there have solar panels in any location other than their roof? I'm thinking solar trees or things like this maybe

Solar Flower Designs with SmartFlower — The Future is Here! (https://smartflower.com/products/)

or

Solar Flower | Curve from Spotlight Solar — Beautiful Solar Structures | Spotlight Solar (https://spotlightsolar.com/solar-flower-curve)

Or even just a small set of panels on the ground? Or is this just kinda "not an option here"?

Thanks :)

Joe

Looks like a great sail in tropical storm winds. Your neighbors would love that. Outside structures by current code must withstand 150mph winds. That would be my first question to the vendor.

[Southwest737]

How about as patio cover?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/0d/94/930d94d2cf7c1223ef47cf0b2fef23aa.jpg

[JRcorvette]

If you’re gonna put solar up on your roof, you better replace your shingles first.

[Windguy]

If you are considering the Sunflower, please look at how its cost per kW compares to roof-mounted panels. The Sunflower has what appears to be a large, heavy, and expensive support. Roof-mounted panels are probably much cheaper and don’t waste yard space.

Another option is to buy solar roof shingles when it’s time to replace your roof. The idea has been around for decades, but I consider it to be bleeding-edge technology. It think they’ll be a great option in a few years. Tesla has been selling them for a while. They had some initial problems, but are addressing them.

[BigSteph]

Not sure if mentioned, I skimmed, but in Arizona, I saw Solar Carports and Solar Parking lots with the advantage of coverage for cars in the hot sun.

[tophcfa]

Another option is to buy solar roof shingles when it’s time to replace your roof. The idea has been around for decades, but I consider it to be bleeding-edge technology. It think they’ll be a great option in a few years. Tesla has been selling them for a while. They had some initial problems, but are addressing them.

Better check with your homeowners insurance carrier before considering installing those type of shingles.

[Two Bills]

If you’re gonna put solar up on your roof, you better replace your shingles first.

In UK. Integrated Solar Panels are very popular, they are fixed to the roof structure, then the roof covering is laid around panels.

[JMintzer]

If you are considering the Sunflower, please look at how its cost per kW compares to roof-mounted panels. The Sunflower has what appears to be a large, heavy, and expensive support. Roof-mounted panels are probably much cheaper and don’t waste yard space.

Another option is to buy solar roof shingles when it’s time to replace your roof. The idea has been around for decades, but I consider it to be bleeding-edge technology. It think they’ll be a great option in a few years. Tesla has been selling them for a while. They had some initial problems, but are addressing them.

Agreed. Those look promising...

If the kinks are worked out, and they are hurricane rated, I'd consider them when it's time to replace our roof shingles...

[mbene]

One question I have is how much additional cost to dismantle and disconnect the solar panels, remove them from the roof, then reassemble and reconnect when reroofing? I would think you would need someone other than the roofers do that.

[TCNY61]

One question I have is how much additional cost to dismantle and disconnect the solar panels, remove them from the roof, then reassemble and reconnect when reroofing? I would think you would need someone other than the roofers do that.

Guy at work just had it done last week in Westchester NY. $8400 to reshingle roof, $4800 to have the panels removed and reinstalled afterwards.

[Keefelane66]

I'm waiting on an electric car with a solar panel on top to charge it when parked outside. (There are some prototypes coming out.) But really, where we moved from in Virginia there were five houses on our block with solar on the roof. I talked with one of those neighbors about it and he said many months their electric bill was the $5.00 mandatory minimum. These were the type where the power company bought back your excess electricity. My next door neighbor, however, insisted it was a government plot to install new electric meters that let the deep state turn off your electricity via satellite on command (not kidding). I heard he died of a heart attack the week after we moved down here. Too bad, he'd have fit right in down here.
The term your looking for are “Luddites” many would feel a home at the beginning of industrial revolution.
The younger generation feel more at home with modern technology. I'm not talking about golf balls and clubs.

[merrymini]

That is an ugly piece of junk and hope people do not start putting them up in the Villages.

[villagetinker]

Here is an off the wall idea, the CDD could offer some vacant land for the installation of ground based solar panels, and then CDD residents could purchase a piece of this installation to get the benefits of the solar installation. This would be basically a neighborhood solar installation. Also, there should be some savings based on the scale of the project. Note sure exactly how the sale of the electricity would be credited to the people that bought into the project.

[BrianL99]

Here is an off the wall idea, the CDD could offer some vacant land for the installation of ground based solar panels, and then CDD residents could purchase a piece of this installation to get the benefits of the solar installation. This would be basically a neighborhood solar installation. Also, there should be some savings based on the scale of the project. Note sure exactly how the sale of the electricity would be credited to the people that bought into the project.


How do you propose to get the electricity from the solar field to the individual homes?

[Pinball wizard]

How do you propose to get the electricity from the solar field to the individual homes?

Just sell it to the electric company and credit those who bought in.

[BrianL99]

Just sell it to the electric company and credit those who bought in.

Oh? How are you going to get it to the electric company?

& you do have any idea how much the electric company will pay, if they can figure out a way to get the electricity? Probably 1/10th of their Retail Electric Rates ... oh wait, maybe you can hold an auction among all the competing electric companies.

Electricity can't be loaded on a truck and delivered like bread or gasoline.

[tophcfa]

Here is an off the wall idea, the CDD could offer some vacant land for the installation of ground based solar panels, and then CDD residents could purchase a piece of this installation to get the benefits of the solar installation. This would be basically a neighborhood solar installation. Also, there should be some savings based on the scale of the project. Note sure exactly how the sale of the electricity would be credited to the people that bought into the project.

What you described are referred to as solar farms and are common up north. The basics of how they work (the one I considered anyway) are as follows. A group of homeowners contractually agree to purchase power from the farm for a fixed term (let’s say 25 years) at a fixed rate. The fixed rate is set at approximately the current rate per kilowatt hour for electricity in that region. The homeowners purchase a fixed monthly amount of power calibrated to approximately 80% of their average monthly usage. Each homeowner has to pass certain credit underwriting criteria to sign up. Once enough homeowners sign up to meet the farm’s capacity, the farm’s developer finances the project using the pool of homeowners credit approved contractual obligations as collateral. The farms developer peels off their cut and typically also is affiliated with the installation company so gets that business as well . The farms power is actually purchased by the electric distribution company at a fixed cost for the life of the farm and is part of their green/sustainable energy sourced portfolio as mandated by regulators in that region. Homeowners get about 80% of their electric power at an inflation proof fixed rate for the life of the farm and pay current market rate for the balance of electricity used. Homeowners also get the benefit of feeling they are helping the environment without any up front investment or having panels on their property, if that floats their boat. The downside for homeowners is that they are locked into paying for the power regardless of whether they use it, or if they sell their home. Those were deal breakers for us. When we are at our Villages home (which hopefully will be at least half the year), we obviously don’t use much power. When we eventually downsize and sell our home, it’s our responsibility to find someone to assume our contractual obligation for the remaining life of the farm, and that party would have to pass the credit underwriting criteria of the institution that financed the farm. There are certainly lots of fine details I didn’t go over, buts that’s the basics.

[BrianL99]

What you described are referred to as solar farms and are common up north. The basics of how they work (the one I considered anyway) are as follows. A group of homeowners contractually agree to purchase power from the farm for a fixed term (let’s say 25 years) at a fixed rate. The fixed rate is set at approximately the current rate per kilowatt hour for electricity in that region. The homeowners purchase a fixed monthly amount of power calibrated to approximately 80% of their average monthly usage. Each homeowner has to pass certain credit underwriting criteria to sign up. Once enough homeowners sign up to meet the farm’s capacity, the farm’s developer finances the project using the pool of homeowners credit approved contractual obligations as collateral. The farms developer peels off their cut and typically also is affiliated with the installation company so gets that business as well . The farms power is actually purchased by the electric distribution company at a fixed cost for the life of the farm and is part of their green/sustainable energy sourced portfolio as mandated by regulators in that region. Homeowners get about 80% of their electric power at an inflation proof fixed rate for the life of the farm and pay current market rate for the balance of electricity used. Homeowners also get the benefit of feeling they are helping the environment without any up front investment or having panels on their property, if that floats their boat. The downside for homeowners is that they are locked into paying for the power regardless of whether they use it, or if they sell their home. Those were deal breakers for us. When we are at our Villages home (which hopefully will be at least half the year), we obviously don’t use much power. When we eventually downsize and sell our home, it’s our responsibility to find someone to assume our contractual obligation for the remaining life of the farm, and that party would have to pass the credit underwriting criteria of the institution that financed the farm. There are certainly lots of fine details I didn’t go over, buts that’s the basics.

That's an interesting model. It seems like the homeowner/investors are more like "limited partners" or "guarantors" of a sort.

[tophcfa]

Here is an off the wall idea, the CDD could offer some vacant land for the installation of ground based solar panels, and then CDD residents could purchase a piece of this installation to get the benefits of the solar installation. This would be basically a neighborhood solar installation. Also, there should be some savings based on the scale of the project. Note sure exactly how the sale of the electricity would be credited to the people that bought into the project.

Interesting concept, but for the electric transmission company to use their infrastructure to transmit the power, they would have to be incentivized to by some sort of government regulation that requires them add energy labeled as green to their portfolio of energy sources. Those mandates are definitely in place in some states, but I’m not sure about Florida. Unfortunately, those mandates tend to end up with ratepayers experiencing skyrocketing electricity bills. Our cost per kilowatt hour at our Massachusetts home is significantly higher than in the Villages, at least partially because of those regulatory mandates.

[villagetinker]

How do you propose to get the electricity from the solar field to the individual homes?

Each entity that bought into the project would get a percentage of the sale of the generated power. The easiest way would be a check or direct deposit, then the money received could be used to offset the utility bill or otherwise.

[keepsake]

If you install solar panels on a roof, you block that summer sun energy from your attic space. Another measurable benefit.

[keepsake]

That sunflower might close up with a storm and have a small wind load spec. If it closes at night or when the sun is blocked, it's a given.

[Fastskiguy]

Sure appreciate the brainstorming guys, thanks! :)

Joe

[cjrjck]

Just sell it to the electric company and credit those who bought in.

Might work with SECO or another CO-OP. Duke and other electric companies from my understanding, only offer a portion of what the electricity is worth.

[BrianL99]

they would have to be incentivized to by some sort of government regulation that requires them add energy labeled as green to their portfolio of energy sources. Those mandates are definitely in place in some states, but I’m not sure about Florida.

I have no real clue about Florida, but I can give you some insight into how it works in MA.

MOST Electric produces are required to produce 10% (that was the number a couple of years ago, it may have changed, since) from "renewable sources". Smaller, municipal providers were exempt from the 10%.

If the power producer wasn't getting 10% of their power from renewables, they were essentially required to buy from private producers (home owners) at a rate comparable to what they sold (or produced) power for. Once they reached 10%, they weren't required to buy the power, so if you could talk them into buying it, you were at their mercy for pricing.

On top of "net metering", there are also Solar Renewal Energy Credits (SREC). I believe only 7 states have them. The average solar home generates 6-10 SREC Credits per year. A home owner will typical sell them to an aggregator, who then markets SREC's on the open market and they are sold to electric producers who need "credit to meet their requirement of producing a portion of their electrical power from renewable sources". MA also had SREC pricing controls in place.


That's a rough approximation of how it works. The rules change all the time, but that's the basic framework of how it works in MA and some other states that have adopted incentives for Solar power. (There are also federal incentives, including ACRS & Tax Credits, but they're also subject to frequent change.)

[villagetinker]

I have no real clue about Florida, but I can give you some insight into how it works in MA.

MOST Electric produces are required to produce 10% (that was the number a couple of years ago, it may have changed, since) from "renewable sources". Smaller, municipal providers were exempt from the 10%.

If the power producer wasn't getting 10% of their power from renewables, they were essentially required to buy from private producers (home owners) at a rate comparable to what they sold (or produced) power for. Once they reached 10%, they weren't required to buy the power, so if you could talk them into buying it, you were at their mercy for pricing.

On top of "net metering", there are also Solar Renewal Energy Credits (SREC). I believe only 7 states have them. The average solar home generates 6-10 SREC Credits per year. A home owner will typical sell them to an aggregator, who then markets SREC's on the open market and they are sold to electric producers who need "credit to meet their requirement of producing a portion of their electrical power from renewable sources". MA also had SREC pricing controls in place.


That's a rough approximation of how it works. The rules change all the time, but that's the basic framework of how it works in MA and some other states that have adopted incentives for Solar power. (There are also federal incentives, including ACRS & Tax Credits, but they're also subject to frequent change.)

You are correct for the DEREGULATED states, Florida is not one of them, it appears to be tightly controlled by the electric utilities, so the only option appears to be "net metering" unless as I noted previously a community type project could get a better deal.