Drive2 QT camber, toe-in controversy...tire wear

[Garyb4me]

Having read all previous posts concerning Drive2 wheel alignment issues, I do have a few questions about correcting tire wear. Assuming Yamaha does not allow for alignment adjustments (other than aftermarket equipment) I would like to know how to rotate my tires correctly....front to front, front to back, front to back criss-crossed, etc. Also type of jack used, lift points, lug nut size, etc. I have a Drive2, 2019 and a 2020. Thanks.

[villagetinker]

I cannot comment on the tire switching pattern. I use a Sears automotive jack, in the CENTER of the frame at either the front of back of the cart. I also place a jack stand in the same area, in case the hydraulic jack fails. As I recall a 3/4 deep socket works very well for the lug nuts, however you will need to double check this. You will want to SET THE BRAKE and loosen the lug nuts before jacking the cart up, and reverse this after you have swapped the wheels.

[photo1902]

Having read all previous posts concerning Drive2 wheel alignment issues, I do have a few questions about correcting tire wear. Assuming Yamaha does not allow for alignment adjustments (other than aftermarket equipment) I would like to know how to rotate my tires correctly....front to front, front to back, front to back criss-crossed, etc. Also type of jack used, lift points, lug nut size, etc. I have a Drive2, 2019 and a 2020. Thanks.

On non-directional cart tires, the rotation pattern is LF to RR, RF to LR.

Lugs are 12mm x 1.25

[Topspinmo]

You can’t adjust camber unless you change the spindles. Tow in 1/4” if I remember? Or it may be 1/4” tow out. Plenty of utube video’s on this and Google? Tire pressure had big effect on tire wear also.

[Blueblaze]

Having read all previous posts concerning Drive2 wheel alignment issues, I do have a few questions about correcting tire wear. Assuming Yamaha does not allow for alignment adjustments (other than aftermarket equipment) I would like to know how to rotate my tires correctly....front to front, front to back, front to back criss-crossed, etc. Also type of jack used, lift points, lug nut size, etc. I have a Drive2, 2019 and a 2020. Thanks.

Which Yamaha's don't allow alignment adjustments? I just adjusted my 2021 Drive 2 DR2 PTV Quietech this afternoon. The adjustment is on the tie rods, as expected. You just loosen the lock nut and screw them in or out. For a low speed vehicle, I can't imagine that it has to be very precise. I just stretched a string from the rear tire, and measured the distance from the string on the rear and front of the front tire. My right front wheel was pretty far off, and probably has been since I bought it and just hadn't noticed until today. It made me wonder if they set it up that way to sell tires. But fixing it only took about 10 minutes.

[Garyb4me]

Which Yamaha's don't allow alignment adjustments? I just adjusted my 2021 Drive 2 DR2 PTV Quietech this afternoon. The adjustment is on the tie rods, as expected. You just loosen the lock nut and screw them in or out. For a low speed vehicle, I can't imagine that it has to be very precise. I just stretched a string from the rear tire, and measured the distance from the string on the rear and front of the front tire. My right front wheel was pretty far off, and probably has been since I bought it and just hadn't noticed until today. It made me wonder if they set it up that way to sell tires. But fixing it only took about 10 minutes.

Not sure exactly what points you are measuring from/to and the numbers you are trying to achieve and what criteria did you use to realize your right front wheel was way off? Thanks.

[tophcfa]

Which Yamaha's don't allow alignment adjustments? I just adjusted my 2021 Drive 2 DR2 PTV Quietech this afternoon. The adjustment is on the tie rods, as expected. You just loosen the lock nut and screw them in or out. For a low speed vehicle, I can't imagine that it has to be very precise. I just stretched a string from the rear tire, and measured the distance from the string on the rear and front of the front tire. My right front wheel was pretty far off, and probably has been since I bought it and just hadn't noticed until today. It made me wonder if they set it up that way to sell tires. But fixing it only took about 10 minutes.

Alignment has two components, toe and camber. The alignment you described is adjusting the toe. Camber on QT’s can’t be adjusted as set up from the factory. There are aftermarket front shocks that are available that are designed to allow camber adjustment. Adjusting camber changes the toe settling, so camber needs to be done first, then toe. QT’s come from the factory with noticeable negative camber, which give the cart both better handling and a little more stability, but wears the tires faster when being primarily driven on pavement. The negative camber is best for fleet golf carts primarily driven on turf, but not for Personal Transportation Vehicles primarily driven on pavement. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn’t differentiate, all carts have the same front end setup.

After much research and consideration, I decided not to add the aftermarket shocks and live with the negative camber and rotating the tires. After considering the cost and effort of replacing the factory shocks, I figured it would be better to use the money/time on replacing tires more frequently. Also, as the aftermarket shocks wear in, it would have been necessary to periodically readjust the camber and toe, something I didn’t want to deal with. Hope that helps clarify things.

[Garyb4me]

Alignment has two components, toe and camber. The alignment you described is adjusting the toe. Camber on QT’s can’t be adjusted as set up from the factory. There are aftermarket front shocks that are available that are designed to allow camber adjustment. Adjusting camber changes the toe settling, so camber needs to be done first, then toe. QT’s come from the factory with noticeable negative camber, which give the cart both better handling and a little more stability, but wears the tires faster when being primarily driven on pavement. The negative camber is best for fleet golf carts primarily driven on turf, but not for Personal Transportation Vehicles primarily driven on pavement. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn’t differentiate, all carts have the same front end setup.

After much research and consideration, I decided not to add the aftermarket shocks and live with the negative camber and rotating the tires. After considering the cost and effort of replacing the factory shocks, I figured it would be better to use the money/time on replacing tires more frequently. Also, as the aftermarket shocks wear in, it would have been necessary to periodically readjust the camber and toe, something I didn’t want to deal with. Hope that helps clarify things.
Wonderful explanation and detailed description of QT's alignment subject. One further question...as there are several ways to rotate cart tires, which method is best? Thanks.

[tophcfa]

Wonderful explanation and detailed description of QT's alignment subject. One further question...as there are several ways to rotate cart tires, which method is best? Thanks.

Our QT only has 130 hours on it and I plan on rotating the tires for the first time when we get to our Villages home after the holidays. I plan on using the advice in posts # 2 and 3 as guidance. I need to figure out if the tires that came with the cart are directional. If not, I will rotate them as described in post #3, otherwise I will simply go front to back on the same side. I’m bring down a floor jack and a four way metric tire wrench. PM me in January if you want to swing by our place and we can do both carts, it shouldn’t take more than about 15 minutes per cart.

[ckcapaul]

On non directional tires, rotate front to rear, then cross the rears as you move to the front. That way it takes 4 rotations before the tires end up back where they started.

[Blueblaze]

If the vehicle was designed to travel at high speeds, I would worry about camber. The reason there is no adjustment of camber is because it's not necessary -- for the same reason that there is no adjustment on the rear wheels at all. Just make the wheels roll reasonably straight, keep air in the tires, and you'll be fine. I just discovered during a 45min drive back from a remote golf course yesterday that I've been driving my 2021 for two years with the right wheel pointing 10 degrees to the right, and yet, there is no sign of abnormal tire wear. Like most complaints on TOTV, this is really not that big a deal.

Sorry to the guy who couldn't understand my explanation of how to adjust the toe. Here's the long version:

Look under the front of your vehicle. You will see two steel rods with rubber accordian-looking thingies on them, pointing towards the wheels. The technical word for those rods is "tie rods". You will see that they screw into a silvery-looking elbow thingy, and there is a nut on them. There are flats on the tie rod that will accept a wrench. Loosen the nut, and you can use a wrench to screw the tie rod in or out, which will cause the tire to point either further away from the vehicle or more towards it. Ideally, you would like it to point straight ahead.

In order to measure "straight ahead", you can use the rear tire (which has no adjustment and is assumed to be straight) as a guide. First, turn the steering wheel until it points straight ahead. Then, tie a string to something at rear of the vehicle and stretch it tight across the rear of the rear tire all the way past the front tire. When the string just touches the front of the rear tire, you can use it as a guide to adjust tie rod. Use a ruler to take a measurement to the string, while measuring the distance from the tire to the string. Take two measurements -- at the rear of the tire, and the front. When both measurements are equal, the wheel is straight enough for a golf cart. At this point, re-tighten the nut so that it will stay that way. This works because the track of the front tires is slightly less than the rear tires. On my cart, when the measurement read 1-1/2 inches, at both the back and the front of the front tire, on both sides, my cart was adjusted to "straight ahead".

[biker1]

Check your tires to see if they are directional. They will have an arrow on the tire indicating the direction of rotation if they are directional. Directional tires can only be rotated front to back and back to front on the same side of the cart. If you want to cross them over to the other side of the cart, you will need to have them remounted. If they are non-directional tires, I would recommend moving the fronts straight back and crossing the rears over to the front. In other words,

RF > RR
LF > LR
LR > RF
RR > LF

Having read all previous posts concerning Drive2 wheel alignment issues, I do have a few questions about correcting tire wear. Assuming Yamaha does not allow for alignment adjustments (other than aftermarket equipment) I would like to know how to rotate my tires correctly....front to front, front to back, front to back criss-crossed, etc. Also type of jack used, lift points, lug nut size, etc. I have a Drive2, 2019 and a 2020. Thanks.

[OhioBuckeye]

I worked for Ford for 38 yrs. To rotate tires take right rear passenger side move it to left front drivers side, left rear move to right front passenger side. Take 2 front tires & move straight back. That’s it!

[OhioBuckeye]

That’s correct!

[Bill14564]

I worked for Ford for 38 yrs. To rotate tires take right rear passenger side move it to left front drivers side, left rear move to right front passenger side. Take 2 front tires & move straight back. That’s it!

Doing that will reverse the rotation of the tires moving from the back to the front.

Some modern tires have an arrow showing the proper rotation. What you propose will cause the tires to rotate opposite from what the arrow shows. I'm not sure how important it is but it clearly goes against the manufacturer's suggested usage.

Perhaps Fords didn't use those tires in the 38 yrs you worked for them.

And yes, it is unlikely that golf cart tires have a proper rotation direction.

[phousel]

Which Yamaha's don't allow alignment adjustments? I just adjusted my 2021 Drive 2 DR2 PTV Quietech this afternoon. The adjustment is on the tie rods, as expected. You just loosen the lock nut and screw them in or out. For a low speed vehicle, I can't imagine that it has to be very precise. I just stretched a string from the rear tire, and measured the distance from the string on the rear and front of the front tire. My right front wheel was pretty far off, and probably has been since I bought it and just hadn't noticed until today. It made me wonder if they set it up that way to sell tires. But fixing it only took about 10 minutes.
Tie rods have no effect on caster or camber.

[Blueblaze]

Tie rods have no effect on caster or camber.

Duh!

And your point, sir?

[MX rider]

It may be apples and oranges, but my brother is a Polaris dealer in Indiana and sells side by sides, lots of them.

We bought one and have it at our home there. Right after we got it I noticed that it was towed out. When I asked the service manager (my nephew. lol) about it he said that is normal alignment on all sxs's.

I've noticed here almost all the Yamaha carts I see are towed out, including ours. I'm just wondering if that is proper set up for Yamaha carts?

[mrf0151]

Doing that will reverse the rotation of the tires moving from the back to the front.

Some modern tires have an arrow showing the proper rotation. What you propose will cause the tires to rotate opposite from what the arrow shows. I'm not sure how important it is but it clearly goes against the manufacturer's suggested usage.

Perhaps Fords didn't use those tires in the 38 yrs you worked for them.

And yes, it is unlikely that golf cart tires have a proper rotation direction.

The vast majority of the Yamaha golf carts are running the bias ply 10 inch Loadstar tires. These are just non directional trailer tires and cannot be compared to tires that are on cars and trucks.

[OhioBuckeye]

Whatever you say!

[Topspinmo]

Which Yamaha's don't allow alignment adjustments? I just adjusted my 2021 Drive 2 DR2 PTV Quietech this afternoon. The adjustment is on the tie rods, as expected. You just loosen the lock nut and screw them in or out. For a low speed vehicle, I can't imagine that it has to be very precise. I just stretched a string from the rear tire, and measured the distance from the string on the rear and front of the front tire. My right front wheel was pretty far off, and probably has been since I bought it and just hadn't noticed until today. It made me wonder if they set it up that way to sell tires. But fixing it only took about 10 minutes.

Can’t adjust camber. Why many complain about front tires leaning and tire wear on outside of tires. Only fix that get older model without independent suspension spindle that has different spindle angle. Now if I had club car I could just take big hammer and adjust the mild steel front end parts.

[Topspinmo]

Duh!

And your point, sir?

So what don’t you get? O, you forgot about the other two angles when it come to adjusting front wheel alignment that only one available on Yamaha cart.

[Topspinmo]

Not sure exactly what points you are measuring from/to and the numbers you are trying to achieve and what criteria did you use to realize your right front wheel was way off? Thanks.

Go on Utube several videos on how to adjust toe in on Yamaha golf carts. Explains it very well. All need tape measure piece chalk, and wrench to break tie rod j-nut loose.

[Topspinmo]

Our QT only has 130 hours on it and I plan on rotating the tires for the first time when we get to our Villages home after the holidays. I plan on using the advice in posts # 2 and 3 as guidance. I need to figure out if the tires that came with the cart are directional. If not, I will rotate them as described in post #3, otherwise I will simply go front to back on the same side. I’m bring down a floor jack and a four way metric tire wrench. PM me in January if you want to swing by our place and we can do both carts, it shouldn’t take more than about 15 minutes per cart.

Hope they didn’t over tighten lug nuts or the front tires will just spin unless you have impact. Like mind did the first time I tried to remove the lug nuts. And yes there was no Jack under cart.

[Blueblaze]

So what don’t you get? O, you forgot about the other two angles when it come to adjusting front wheel alignment that only one available on Yamaha cart.

If you check your car's tires, you will find that they are rated for over 80 miles per hour. That's why your car's wheels require very precise adjustments, in all three dimensions. That logic does not apply to a vehicle that barely makes 20mph and gets driven maybe 1000 miles a year.

Your Yamaha has no camber adjustment because such vehicles don't need a camber adjustment. If your tires are wearing unevenly, I guarantee it is because they aren't tracking straight -- exactly as I discovered with mine. You can fix that in about 10 minutes by adjusting the one thing that matters on a golf cart -- the tie rods.