Origin of the low-carb diet

[MorTech]

Interesting lecture by Drs. Eades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uncd7SvT94c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87BWWUj9PiY

[fdpaq0580]

Pre-civilization, or troglodite diet. Meat, when we could find it, steal it or kill it. Wild fruit, when in season. Bushes and grasses. Occasionally roots or tubers.
Once we settled and started turning grain into flour and figured how to get the sugar out of cane and beets, the dice were cast, and came up snake eyes. Lean hunter gatherers evolved into bakerssapians,and they, in turn, created a race of foodies and couch potatoes.
Do the research. Just look around, but not at me. I'm just big boned, really!

Now, where did I hide those chocolate eclairs?

[ThirdOfFive]

Pre-civilization, or troglodite diet. Meat, when we could find it, steal it or kill it. Wild fruit, when in season. Bushes and grasses. Occasionally roots or tubers.
Once we settled and started turning grain into flour and figured how to get the sugar out of cane and beets, the dice were cast, and came up snake eyes. Lean hunter gatherers evolved into bakerssapians,and they, in turn, created a race of foodies and couch potatoes.
Do the research. Just look around, but not at me. I'm just big boned, really!

Now, where did I hide those chocolate eclairs?
Dunno about the pre-civilization stuff, but all we have to do is to look around. The animals that eat plants are fat. The animals that EAT the animals that eat plants, are not.

[fdpaq0580]

Dunno about the pre-civilization stuff, but all we have to do is to look around. The animals that eat plants are fat. The animals that EAT the animals that eat plants, are not.

OK! But where do the eclairs come in?

[CFrance]

OK! But where do the eclairs come in?
Mine come in through the back door, after dark.:icon_hungry:

[fdpaq0580]

The animals that eat plants are fat. The animals that EAT the animals that eat plants, are not.[/QUOTE]

Look again. Certainly, if you look at domesticated animals that might seem true. Look at nature. See any fat mountain goats or big horn sheep? See any fat gazelle or wildebeest or antelope? The harder an animal has to work for its calories the more fit it will be. Examples, look to your pets. If you put out unlimited food there would be nothing but fat dogs and cats unable to move, and their natural diet is meat, not kibble.

[Randall55]

Dunno about the pre-civilization stuff, but all we have to do is to look around. The animals that eat plants are fat. The animals that EAT the animals that eat plants, are not.You may need to look around a little more. Your statement about animals in their natural environment is false. Giraffes and bears are two obvious species that come to mind. Not to mention most Asians eat small amounts of meat with plenty of rice and vegetables. They are not fat humans.

Inuits (Eskimos) diet consists of mainly meat. They are not skinny humans.

Americans tend to be heavier because of the portion size of food we consume. Any diet that reduces portion size will help you lose weight and keep it off. Eat meat and not carbs? Great! Smaller portion of food. Eat only vegetables? Great! Smaller portions of food. Smaller portions mean less calories.

Many diseases are caused by a lack of vitamins or minerals. IMHO, You are doing yourself a disservice if you avoid certain food groups. Again, Asians eat balanced meals and are some of the healthiest humans on the planet and live longer than other races. Btw: No, I am not Asian. They just happen to be a perfect example for this thread.

[fdpaq0580]

Mine come in through the back door, after dark.:icon_hungry:

LOL! I'm jealous!

[fdpaq0580]

You may need to look around a little more. Your statement about animals in their natural environment is false. Giraffes and bears are two obvious species that come to mind. Not to mention most Asians eat small amounts of meat with plenty of rice and vegetables. They are not fat humans.

Americans tend to be heavier because of the portion size of food we consume. Any diet that reduces portion size will help you lose weight and keep it off. Eat meat and not carbs? Great! Smaller portion of food. Eat only vegetables? Great! Smaller portions of food. Smaller portions mean less calories.

Many diseases are caused by a lack of vitamins or minerals. You are doing yourself a disservice if you avoid certain food groups. Again, Asians eat balanced meals and are some of the healthiest humans on the planet and live longer than other races. Btw: No, I am not Asian. They just happen to be a perfect example for this thread.

Bears are omnivores eat anything they can get. Bears need to put on weight so they can hibernate and survive winter. Ever see how actually fit a grizzly is as it runs down an adult elk.
Giraffe? Plant based diet. Don't look fat to me.
Absolutely agree that portion size and balance in diet and exercise is key.

? Is not rice (which I love) not a carb?

[Velvet]

“High blood cholesterol is one of the major controllable risk factors for heart disease, heart attack and stroke. High cholesterol causes 4.4 million deaths every year, or 7.8% of all deaths….

Cholesterol is only found in foods that come from animals, there is no cholesterol in foods that come from plants. So, there is no cholesterol in fruit, vegetables, grains, seeds, nuts, beans, peas and lentils.” Google

How many of us know someone who had a stroke? (Possibly helped along by high cholesterol.)

[frayedends]

China is indeed starting to have an obesity epidemic. This is due to a shift toward western diets. Processed foods, seed oils, and sugar.

[Randall55]

China is indeed starting to have an obesity epidemic. This is due to a shift toward western diets. Processed foods, seed oils, and sugar.No argument about that. Processed food is unhealthy for everyone. However, Asians do not eat a lot of meat and would not consider avoiding vegetables and rice to get healthy. Latinos also eat an abundance of rice, legumes, and vegetables. The Mediterranean diet is full of vegetables and grains. It is egotistical and dangerous to believe millions upon millions of humans are eating incorrectly. Especially when most of them live long and healthy lives. On the opposite spectrum, Inuits eat very little carbs and are not skinny.

Anyone who starts a fad diet has one motive...MONEY! There is no real science that backs up any of their "new and improved" methods of eating. My proof are the millions of people around the world who eat opposite of an "informed" American.

Less portion size means fewer calories. This is the ONLY reason fad diets work. Don't believe it? Eat a Fred Flinstone portion of meat every day for a month. You will not lose weight nor will it improve your health.

[tophcfa]

“High blood cholesterol is one of the major controllable risk factors for heart disease, heart attack and stroke. High cholesterol causes 4.4 million deaths every year, or 7.8% of all deaths….

Cholesterol is only found in foods that come from animals, there is no cholesterol in foods that come from plants. So, there is no cholesterol in fruit, vegetables, grains, seeds, nuts, beans, peas and lentils.” Google

How many of us know someone who had a stroke? (Possibly helped along by high cholesterol.)

The people with the worst cholesterol problems tend to eat lots of food laced with sugar and flour. Carbohydrates make people sedative, and the unburnt carbs turn into body fat.

[tophcfa]

The animals that eat plants are fat. The animals that EAT the animals that eat plants, are not.

Examples, look to your pets. If you put out unlimited food there would be nothing but fat dogs and cats unable to move, and their natural diet is meat, not kibble.

You obviously never had the pleasure of having a border collie as your pet. You could put down a smorgasbord of their favorite food and give them a choice of eating or doing a physical activity. They would choose physically working over food seven days a week and twice on Sundays. Sallie and Zack were the greatest.

[Velvet]

Tophcfa is also correct:

“When you eat too much sugar, your liver makes more LDL while lowering the amount of HDL in your body. The extra calories from a sugary diet also leads to more of something called triglycerides, a type of blood fat that plays a role in your cholesterol health.”

[MrChip72]

Americans tend to be heavier because of the portion size of food we consume. Any diet that reduces portion size will help you lose weight and keep it off.

Americans are among the heaviest due to High Fructose corn syrup being in almost EVERYTHING. Outside of the US even many of the exact same branded products will not contain HFCS as health regulations will not allow it. Canadians have almost identical diets to the US and the obesity rate is significantly lower. Same for the UK.

Every country except the US doesn't have a Corn lobby forcing corn to be used as a sweetener and to make ethanol for no logical reason.

Australia is known to have larger meal portions than the US in general and their obesity rate is over 30% less.

[Randall55]

Americans are among the heaviest due to High Fructose corn syrup being in almost EVERYTHING. Outside of the US even many of the exact same branded products will not contain HFCS as health regulations will not allow it. Canadians have almost identical diets to the US and the obesity rate is significantly lower. Same for the UK.

Every country except the US doesn't have a Corn lobby forcing corn to be used as a sweetener and to make ethanol for no logical reason.

Australia is known to have larger meal portions than the US in general and their obesity rate is over 30% less.If someone consistently eats a processed food diet, corn syrup is not their only problem.

A no carb or low carb diet works because one is consuming less calories each day as compared to what was consumed before dieting.
I can start a fad diet that allows you to eat a candy bar, twice a day, and people will lose weight. Not because candy bars are a miracle food. Loss of weight would occur because the person on the diet is consuming fewer calories. Less food (calories) consumed daily is the ONLY reason fad diets work.

There is one incredible miracle that fad diets create. The person(s) or company pushing the diet earns millions of dollars each year. The potential to become rich is the reason fad diets are created.

[Two Bills]

Eat meat and fresh veg, fruit, beans, grains, etc.in moderation, with a nice glass of wine, or a good ale, also drink plenty of water, and you will be fine.
Get plenty of exercise.
Putting on a few pounds? Cut down on food portions. (Not the Ale!)
Avoid all processed food.
Simple.

[ithos]

As humans we are inclined to ignore science and logic when it does not validate our preferred habits or lifestyle choices. If we were designed to eat meat then we would not have to cook it and would have teeth like a lion or tiger.

The literature found in pubmed.gov is overwhelming that whole food plant based diet is by far the healthiest option. There are no long term studies to validate a carnivore diet. The low carbers know this so they whine about that no will fund them despite the fact that the meat industry revenue amounts to $125.60bn in 2023. Meat - United States | Statista Market Forecast (https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/food/meat/united-states)
Oh yeah. I forgot. You can't trust any website with a .gov on it.

They also ignore the fact that there is only one medicare approved plan to reverse heart disease which advocates a whole food plant based diet. But then again, any information from the government can't be trusteed.
Provider Resource Center (https://prc.hmsa.com/s/article/Intensive-Cardiac-Rehabilitation-Dr-Ornish-s-Program-for-Reversing-Heart-Disease-Ornish-Lifestyle-MedicineTM)

They also have to disregard that the number one hospital for heart disease has a decades long program to reverse heart disease which espouses a strict whole food plant based diet.
The Esselstyn Heart Disease Program | Cleveland Clinic (https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program)

And what about your poor kidneys?
Eating Too Much Meat Animal protein generates high amounts of acid in the blood that can be harmful to the kidneys and cause acidosis – a condition in which kidneys cannot eliminate acid fast enough. Protein is needed for growth, upkeep and repair of all parts of the body but your diet should be well balanced with fruits and vegetables.
10 Common Habits That May Harm Your Kidneys | National Kidney Foundation (https://www.kidney.org/content/10-common-habits-that-may-harm-your-kidneys#:~:text=Eating%20Too%20Much%20Meat,cannot% 20eliminate%20acid%20fast%20enough).

And of course the low carbers attack the blue zone book but somehow can't come up with any examples of carnivore populations that have the same similar long term health positive outcomes. The best they can come up with are the Eskimos. But that too was another one their false premises.
"The Eskimo Myth": The Truth About Heart Health (https://nutritionfacts.org/blog/the-eskimo-myth/)

[La lamy]

Eat meat and fresh veg, fruit, beans, grains, etc.in moderation, with a nice glass of wine, or a good ale, also drink plenty of water, and you will be fine.
Get plenty of exercise.
Putting on a few pounds? Cut down on food portions. (Not the Ale!)
Avoid all processed food.
Simple.

Well said.
I've tried every type of diet in my youth, and yes, low carb diets worked for weight loss, but I always felt deprived. Low fat diets never worked for me because I was never satisfied so I overate. Muffin after muffin after muffin... Or endless pasta. The best way to eat for me has been 1/2 plate of vegetable, 1/4 carb, 1/4 protein/fat. I feel satisfied and have kept my same weight for decades. And yes, alcohol in moderation!

[MandoMan]

No argument about that. Processed food is unhealthy for everyone. However, Asians do not eat a lot of meat and would not consider avoiding vegetables and rice to get healthy. Latinos also eat an abundance of rice, legumes, and vegetables. The Mediterranean diet is full of vegetables and grains. It is egotistical and dangerous to believe millions upon millions of humans are eating incorrectly. Especially when most of them live long and healthy lives. On the opposite spectrum, Inuits eat very little carbs and are not skinny.

Anyone who starts a fad diet has one motive...MONEY! There is no real science that backs up any of their "new and improved" methods of eating. My proof are the millions of people around the world who eat opposite of an "informed" American.

Less portion size means fewer calories. This is the ONLY reason fad diets work. Don't believe it? Eat a Fred Flinstone portion of meat every day for a month. You will not lose weight nor will it improve your health.

True. Of course, if all you are eating for lunch is broccoli and cauliflower, you can eat a LOT more of it without overdoing the calories than if you are eating many other things. You could make a big pot of vegetable soup with lots of cabbage in it, stewed tomatoes, beans, and eat a quart at every meal and still lose weight, even if you stirred in a cup of brown rice.

[skippy05]

This you stated is misinformation. Foods known to cause inflammation of the vascular system (grains, sugars, carbs) eaten in a routine diet which is high in cholesterol and bad type fats is what is currently believed to increase chances of heart attacks and strokes. Unfortunately, I'm living proof of this.

[Justputt]

Skip the opinions and read about Blue Zones:

Blue zone - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone#:~:text=Blue%20zones%20are%20regions%20i n,recently%20lived%2C%20longer%20than%20average.&text=Five%20blue%20zones%20suggested%20are,Linda%2 C%20California%2C%20United%20States).

[JRcorvette]

Most people are totally clueless about what is healthy to eat and they just don’t care. When I sit in a doctor’s office and look around 90% of the people there are grossly overweight.

[frayedends]

Skip the opinions and read about Blue Zones:

Blue zone - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone#:~:text=Blue%20zones%20are%20regions%20i n,recently%20lived%2C%20longer%20than%20average.&text=Five%20blue%20zones%20suggested%20are,Linda%2 C%20California%2C%20United%20States).

Blue zones have been debunked as cherry picked and disingenuous info.

Issue #63: Beware of Netflix propaganda (Blue Zones debunked) - Heart & Soil Supplements (https://heartandsoil.co/issue-63-beware-of-netflix-propaganda-blue-zones-debunked/)

[Velvet]

I think genetics may have something to do with it. Anecdotal personal evidence: my father was fundamentally a meat eater, and only ate twice a day. When he saw me eat salad he asked me when I’m going to start eating food. Not “rabbit food.” He was 10 pounds within the same weight throughout his adult life. My mother was mostly vegetarian with tiny bits of meat occasionally. Her weight fluctuated maybe 20 pounds throughout her adult life.

When I was 28 years old I tried the Atkins’s diet (in those days daily ketosis was required, for me 4 carbs a day or less) after 3 months I almost died from being overly weak etc. The doctor said I had extremely low potassium. I did lose any amount of weight I wanted though. My father never had low potassium and he was always active. My mother was a ranked gymnast. I am neither. And a vegetarian diet leaves me very low in iron although I try to compensate for it.

My observation is that genetics may influence what kind of diet is best for you.

[The Chipster]

Interesting lecture by Drs. Eades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uncd7SvT94c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87BWWUj9PiY

Every major group of health researchers and doctors recommend the Mediterranean Diet. This proven diet has very little red meat in it, and complex carbs are hugely beneficial to us. If you think humans evolved to eat a lot of animal flesh, here's a question for you: Why did we evolve to have flat teeth (except for two tiny canines) primarily for grinding nuts, grains, fruit and seafood?

[ithos]

As the saying goes, don't make perfect the enemy of the good. On occasion I eat meat but it is not a large percentage of my caloric intake. Also the Mediterranean diet which includes fish has very positive outcomes relative to the standard American diet otherwise known as SAD.

But to advocate a diet of almost all animal protein is 100% pure quackery. It has not been or ever will be validated using established diet protocols. Or else they would publish them instead of making lame excuses.

[Randall55]

As humans we are inclined to ignore science and logic when it does not validate our preferred habits or lifestyle choices. If we were designed to eat meat then we would not have to cook it and would have teeth like a lion or tiger.

The literature found in pubmed.gov is overwhelming that whole food plant based diet is by far the healthiest option. There are no long term studies to validate a carnivore diet. The low carbers know this so they whine about that no will fund them despite the fact that the meat industry revenue amounts to $125.60bn in 2023. Meat - United States | Statista Market Forecast (https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/food/meat/united-states)
Oh yeah. I forgot. You can't trust any website with a .gov on it.

They also ignore the fact that there is only one medicare approved plan to reverse heart disease which advocates a whole food plant based diet. But then again, any information from the government can't be trusteed.
Provider Resource Center (https://prc.hmsa.com/s/article/Intensive-Cardiac-Rehabilitation-Dr-Ornish-s-Program-for-Reversing-Heart-Disease-Ornish-Lifestyle-MedicineTM)

They also have to disregard that the number one hospital for heart disease has a decades long program to reverse heart disease which espouses a strict whole food plant based diet.
The Esselstyn Heart Disease Program | Cleveland Clinic (https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program)

And what about your poor kidneys?
Eating Too Much Meat Animal protein generates high amounts of acid in the blood that can be harmful to the kidneys and cause acidosis – a condition in which kidneys cannot eliminate acid fast enough. Protein is needed for growth, upkeep and repair of all parts of the body but your diet should be well balanced with fruits and vegetables.
10 Common Habits That May Harm Your Kidneys | National Kidney Foundation (https://www.kidney.org/content/10-common-habits-that-may-harm-your-kidneys#:~:text=Eating%20Too%20Much%20Meat,cannot% 20eliminate%20acid%20fast%20enough).

And of course the low carbers attack the blue zone book but somehow can't come up with any examples of carnivore populations that have the same similar long term health positive outcomes. The best they can come up with are the Eskimos. But that too was another one their false premises.
"The Eskimo Myth": The Truth About Heart Health (https://nutritionfacts.org/blog/the-eskimo-myth/)I believe an elimination diet of any sort is bad for you. I know many, many vegetarians who became seriously ill, got cancer, or died in their sixties. As I understand it, you must eat a wide variety of fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains each day to supply your body with the correct amount of nutrients. Most vegetarians do not do this. Man can not survive by eating broccoli, bananas, granola bars, and vegetable pizza. Then downing it with a tall glass of wine or coffee.

You can easily spot a vegetarian who is doing harm to themselves. They are frail/underweight and their faces are void of color. Avoiding meat does not mean you are eating healthy.

[LuvNH]

Eat meat and fresh veg, fruit, beans, grains, etc.in moderation, with a nice glass of wine, or a good ale, also drink plenty of water, and you will be fine.
Get plenty of exercise.
Putting on a few pounds? Cut down on food portions. (Not the Ale!)
Avoid all processed food.
Simple.

Yes, but that does not sell books and all the other diet businesses making a huge living out of unhappy people.

[frayedends]

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long.

[fdpaq0580]

Most people are totally clueless about what is healthy to eat and they just don’t care. When I sit in a doctor’s office and look around 90% of the people there are grossly overweight.

Thanks for noticing me. Next time say "Hello".

[Randall55]

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long.Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

[fdpaq0580]

Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

If not for all the preservatives in processed foods I'd have died years ago.

It's just an old joke I decided to recycle. Hope somebody got a chuckle out of it.

Actually, I'm an "all things in moderation" (except for Brussels sprouts) guy. Go with what works for you. Share, but don't preach.

[frayedends]

Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

Not sure where I said this was new to me. I guess 3 years could be considered new. You are right on processed foods. They taste gross after eating whole foods. Anyone looking to improve their health should start there.

[ithos]

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long."

Absolutely nothing you stated is applicable to a "whole foods, plant based diet." No one is advocating for processed foods. Whole food carbs suppress my appetite for up to 24 hours. If I were eating junk food like potato chips it would be a different story.

But is it too much to ask that you cite credible references which prove that a carnivore diets result in long term benefits such as reversing heart disease, eliminating insulin resistance, curing auto immune diseases, increasing longevity and dramatically reducing the odds of getting cancer?

And again, what about your kidneys? There are many articles about it in Pubmed.
Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result in kidney hyperfiltration, glomerular injury, and proteinuria. It is possible that long-term high protein intake may lead to de novo CKD. The quality of dietary protein may also play a role in kidney health. Compared with protein from plant sources, animal protein has been associated with an increased risk of ESKD in several observational studies, including the Singapore Chinese Health Study.

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32669325/)

[frayedends]

"

Absolutely nothing you stated is applicable to a "whole foods, plant based diet." No one is advocating for processed foods. Whole food carbs suppress my appetite for up to 24 hours. If I were eating junk food like potato chips it would be a different story.

But is it too much to ask that you cite credible references which prove that a carnivore diets result in long term benefits such as reversing heart disease, eliminating insulin resistance, curing auto immune diseases, increasing longevity and dramatically reducing the odds of getting cancer?

And again, what about your kidneys? There are many articles about it in Pubmed.
Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result in kidney hyperfiltration, glomerular injury, and proteinuria. It is possible that long-term high protein intake may lead to de novo CKD. The quality of dietary protein may also play a role in kidney health. Compared with protein from plant sources, animal protein has been associated with an increased risk of ESKD in several observational studies, including the Singapore Chinese Health Study.

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32669325/)

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

[ithos]

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

I apologize then. When you wrote this

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs.


It did seem like it was applicable to my comments.

[ithos]

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

[frayedends]

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

Well all I can say is first, regarding full on carnivore diet, my only assertion is that it is a good elimination diet for people with auto-immune or other unresolved issues that could be related to diet. I don't think it's sustainable, unless of course, someone has cured an auto-immune issue. There are some people like Jordan Peterson and his daughter who swear that it cured all of their issues. There are tons more touting the benefits online.

Apart from that there is a bit of shortage of long term study. All I can say is that most people touting keto are saying it fixed their blood work with the exception of LDL cholesterol possibly being higher. There is also info out there showing that LDL being high isn't necessarily a bad thing and genetics plays a big part.

What I know is my A1C dropped from 5.7 to 5.0. My glucose was usually around 120. Last reading was 86. My HDL went up to normal, my LDL stayed about the same (a bit high). My triglycerides dropped to normal. My blood pressure went from 180/110 to about 140/85. I dropped ~35 lbs. All this and I don't crave food at all.

All of the effects of a keto diet that happened to me are exactly what I was told would happen based on lots of reading and videos from the folks pushing keto. They sold me no books, they sold me no diet plans. My doctor no longer pushes drugs (except statins because they are basically drug dealers).

The only thing I have noticed that can be a problem is carb addiction. The times I've eaten carbs (usually a holiday or party) I end up craving more and more and it takes a bit to get back on track.


Regarding studies, including those in Pubmed, one has to be very careful reading the data and the people being studied and what controls were in place. Even the article you posted had a lot of "may occur" "may result" and "is possible". They didn't cite any specific results confirming these hypothesis. At the end of the day we all have to research what is best and most sustainable for us. If I could keep a diet including carbs like potatoes, rice, etc. I'd be all for it. But for me, whether it be weak will power, or an addictive genetics, I need to cut carbs almost completely to stay on track.

[fdpaq0580]

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

Hmm. Good that you welcome alternative views. "Credible evidence", is, subject to opinion. For some individuals, evidence is only credible if it coincides with their own beliefs or supports their point of view.

[DrMack]

OK! But where do the eclairs come in?

I can tell you where the best ones come from, Bova’s on Salem Street

[fdpaq0580]

I can tell you where the best ones come from, Bova’s on Salem Street

Thanks, Doc!

[ithos]

Hmm. Good that you welcome alternative views. "Credible evidence", is, subject to opinion. For some individuals, evidence is only credible if it coincides with their own beliefs or supports their point of view.

You are correct. I should have said established medical research protocols that have been validated over time and free of external influences driven by a dishonest agenda. The Global warming alarmist campaign is a prime example of how scientists and researchers can be corrupted. But they can get away with their rigged computer GIGO models since the atmosphere can not be subjected to a randomized double blinded placebo or epidemiology studies that are used in medical research.

[fdpaq0580]

You are correct. I should have said established medical research protocols that have been validated over time and free of external influences driven by a dishonest agenda. The Global warming alarmist campaign is a prime example of how scientists and researchers can be corrupted. But they can get away with their rigged computer GIGO models since the atmosphere can not be subjected to a randomized double blinded placebo or epidemiology studies that are used in medical research.

Sorry I said anything. I'm afraid we are drifting from the topic of this thread. My Bad.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

https://www.rosettesmix.com

interesting and a MD's wife, the MD also agrees with the diet approach to "some" diseases

[Randall55]

https://www.rosettesmix.com

interesting and a MD's wife, the MD also agrees with the diet approach to "some" diseasesSubstituting one processed food for a so-called better processed food does not make sense to me. I stick to an all-fresh diet and I never have cravings for junk food loaded with additives. The thought of eating it turns my stomach.

I wish restaurants in the Villages would serve more natural foods. When we eat out, one of us seems to pay for it later. Processed food of any sort is hard on the digestion system. Just my opinion.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Substituting one processed food for a so-called better processed food does not make sense to me. I stick to an all-fresh diet and I never have cravings for junk food loaded with additives. The thought of eating it turns my stomach.

I wish restaurants in the Villages would serve more natural foods. When we eat out, one of us seems to pay for it later. Processed food of any sort is hard on the digestion system. Just my opinion.

:thumbup:

We favor a fresh diet, and have many "fresh" meals, but not all of them. Fresh can get a bit more expensive and time consuming but its definitely the better option. We are hoping to get more of them when we aren't both working. Too much raw vegetables makes me pay about two-three days later.

The best way to not eat processed food is to not buy it and not to have it in the house.