Why Are TV building more Pitch and Putts

[Beyond The Wall]

Just a thought.

Instead of building more pitch and putts, TV should be converting one of the existing ones to an executive course. The P and P are the LEAST requested courses in the entire villages excluding courses way north. Just look at what’s available on TheVillages.net the day most recent assignments are made. Makes no sense to build another one !
Need more Executive courses south of 44!

[Marathon Man]

You have multiple comments about pitch and putt courses. We get it, you don't like them.

[kansasr]

Probably because most of us don’t use the reservation system and just call to see if there are openings. When I play the pitch and putt they’re usually quite busy.

[tophcfa]

Just a thought.

Instead of building more pitch and putts, TV should be converting one of the existing ones to an executive course. The P and P are the LEAST requested courses in the entire villages excluding courses way north. Just look at what’s available on TheVillages.net the day most recent assignments are made. Makes no sense to build another one !
Need more Executive courses south of 44!

I don’t like them, but thinking about it, why wouldn’t they. They cost less to build, use less land, and leave more space to build additional houses. And besides, people are continuing to buy new homes as fast as they can be built, which is what it’s all about at the end of the day. On the other hand, if homebuyers started backing away, and left strong feedback that they were buying elsewhere because of the lack of availability of real golf, the types of new golf being constructed would change. The only way it’s going to change is if prospective new home buyers complain through their purchasing actions! So, if you bought a newly constructed home recently, blame yourself.

[Laker14]

Just a thought.

Instead of building more pitch and putts, TV should be converting one of the existing ones to an executive course. The P and P are the LEAST requested courses in the entire villages excluding courses way north. Just look at what’s available on TheVillages.net the day most recent assignments are made. Makes no sense to build another one !
Need more Executive courses south of 44!

Pitch and putts are quicker, easier, and take less space to build than an executive course. So the developer can build them and boast "free golf" with a fraction of the cost.

[VApeople]

My wife and I love the pitch-and-putt courses except for the one in the Village of Richmond.

We carry fewer clubs than on an exec course and we don't have to look out for the stupid golf carts.

I have been playing golf since 1958 and the main thing I have learned is that hitting short shots makes it easier to learn how to hit the longer shots. The other thing is that, while it is nice to be intelligent, when playing golf it is best to leave your brain at home.

[LeRoySmith]

We have been playing golf since 11/2023... we love the pitch and putts. I wish they'd chop up a few of the executive courses to make room for more pitch and puts because the existing ones are always busy.

[Altavia]

Another fan of the P&P, tends to be more fun for casual golf.

When you look at the number of holes, they are a small percentage.

[fdpaq0580]

We have been playing golf since 11/2023... we love the pitch and putts. I wish they'd chop up a few of the executive courses to make room for more pitch and puts because the existing ones are always busy.

Welcome to the game. After a while you will feel more confident and comfortable and may wish to expand your experience. I like p&p. It is like "beginer" golf and also good practice for your short game.

PS: keep your head down. 😉

[tophcfa]

Another fan of the P&P, tends to be more fun for casual golf.

When you look at the number of holes, they are a small percentage.

They are NOT a small percentage if you compare them to the number of holes available below 44.

[kansasr]

They are NOT a small percentage if you compare them to the number of holes available below 44.

Well yeah, since there are no pitch & puts north of 44....compared to all of the holes of golf in The Villages, SMALL PERCENTAGE, 54 out of 747 = 7.2%

[dewilson58]

You have multiple comments about pitch and putt courses. We get it, you don't like them.

:bigbow:

[MSchad]

On the other hand, if homebuyers started backing away, and left strong feedback that they were buying elsewhere because of the lack of availability of real golf, the types of new golf being constructed would change.
And where would these same buyers find a fraction of the available golf found here. Not to mention a gazillion others things to do and enjoy here.

[Flyers999]

Marsh View is a challenging test.

[asianthree]

Anyone can hit a driver and there are multiple people who use them on par 3 exec.

But a short game can take skill, and let’s face it most greens here can be a challenge because who ever placed that pin last night has anger issues.

Plus the walk on a P&P is forced exercise and that may be one of the reasons why they are not as popular. Some find it a challenge to walk from their house to the curb for trash, much less walk small venue

[Michael 61]

Add my vote in favor of P&P’s - want to see more constructed.

[MrChip72]

They are NOT a small percentage if you compare them to the number of holes available below 44.

"Below 44" is a completely arbitrary measure. Why not compare to the percentage north of 44, or south of the Turnpike or East of Morse?

[MrChip72]

Probably because most of us don’t use the reservation system and just call to see if there are openings. When I play the pitch and putt they’re usually quite busy.

Bingo. I've been to the pitch and putts several times. I've booked a pitch and putt through the reservation system exactly one time. Everytime else I've either showed up at the starter shack and walked on to the first available spot or I called the starter shack on very short notice to grab one of the next available spots ahead of time. They're perfect when you find yourself with a 2 hour timeslot that you need to fill.

[fdpaq0580]

Anyone can hit a driver and there are multiple people who use them on par 3 exec.

But a short game can take skill, and let’s face it most greens here can be a challenge because who ever placed that pin last night has anger issues.

Plus the walk on a P&P is forced exercise and that may be one of the reasons why they are not as popular. Some find it a challenge to walk from their house to the curb for trash, much less walk small venue

Heck, I have trouble walking from the recliner to the fridge. " Honey, will you carry me?"

[npwalters]

Heck, I have trouble walking from the recliner to the fridge. " Honey, will you carry me?"

///

[npwalters]

The reason you are able to "walkup to the P&P" and get on is because they aren't as in demand as executive or championship courses. Why is TV building them? Much lower cost to build and maintain. Less real estate used for amenities and more for houses.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Can anyone tell what exactly the ‘pitch’ part of P&P is?

[tophcfa]

Well yeah, since there are no pitch & puts north of 44....compared to all of the holes of golf in The Villages, SMALL PERCENTAGE, 54 out of 747 = 7.2%

Right, but since all the p & p’s are south of 44, shouldn’t the relative comparison be as a % of the holes south of 44? After all, this thread is about why are they building more of them. The relevancy of the question is all about where golf is being constructed, and it isn’t north of 44.

[tophcfa]

Bingo. I've been to the pitch and putts several times. I've booked a pitch and putt through the reservation system exactly one time. Everytime else I've either showed up at the starter shack and walked on to the first available spot or I called the starter shack on very short notice to grab one of the next available spots ahead of time. They're perfect when you find yourself with a 2 hour timeslot that you need to fill.

Exactly why they need more executives and less glorified mini golf. Try walking onto an executive this time of the year and finding an open spot.

[Rainger99]

If P&Ps are so great, why aren’t there any of them north of 44? What caused the developer, after 30 years of building only Championship and Executive courses, suddenly decide to build P&Ps? If the demand for P&Ps was that great, they would have converted some executives north of 466A to P&Ps.

[VApeople]

What caused the developer, after 30 years of building only Championship and Executive courses, suddenly decide to build P&Ps?

My guess they first decided to build a P&P because of the layout of the land.

The land where the Marshview P&P course is located has a lot of beautiful Live Oak trees and The Villages did not want to chop them down. Some genius had an idea to build a short P&P course that winds thru the trees and, in my opinion, it turned out great.

[MrChip72]

The reason you are able to "walkup to the P&P" and get on is because they aren't as in demand as executive or championship courses. Why is TV building them? Much lower cost to build and maintain. Less real estate used for amenities and more for houses.

I live near Richmond and Marsh View P&Ps and they're busy almost everytime that I drive by them on my golf cart. Richmond P&P was obviously built as a buffer from the turnpike and it works. March View P&P is at Cattail rec center and also shares the same location as Lowlands Executive course, Edna's and Hogeye path. Even if some home sites were taken away there still would not be enough room for a properly laid out Executive course there and it wouldn't make any sense when there's already one there.

I've rarely (almost never) had to wait more than 30 minutes to do a walk-on for an executive. Normally much less.

[asianthree]

Exactly why they need more executives and less glorified mini golf. Try walking onto an executive this time of the year and finding an open spot.

Haven’t had an issue of finding short notice exec for last 5 years, no matter what month it is.

Find high season has multiple spots especially because colder mornings, keeps many no shows, and those who get to the course 20 minutes early go right to the line.

Usually reason one can’t find a time either system, or call same day is because one only chooses something close, their favorite, or certain levels. Willingness to drive to new areas is key to tee times, besides keeps your game sharper instead of plays the same course.

I play with a small group that will not travel more than 15 minutes and only want to play between certain hours. Shut outs are normal year round for them

[Laker14]

Can anyone tell what exactly the ‘pitch’ part of P&P is?

A golf shot that is less than a full swing, but more than a small "chip" is referred to as a "pitch".

It's not a term that is used often in TV golf commentary. However, the "P" club, which in a full set is lofted one club more than a 9-iron is the "Pitching Wedge".

Something in the neighborhood of 40yards down to 10 yards might be referred to as a "pitch". The exact distances are not specific.

[Laker14]

Anyone can hit a driver and there are multiple people who use them on par 3 exec.

But a short game can take skill, and let’s face it most greens here can be a challenge because who ever placed that pin last night has anger issues.

Plus the walk on a P&P is forced exercise and that may be one of the reasons why they are not as popular. Some find it a challenge to walk from their house to the curb for trash, much less walk small venue

"The driver is the hardest club in the bag to hit. That's why they let you put it on a peg"-Harvey Penick.

[asianthree]

"The driver is the hardest club in the bag to hit. That's why they let you put it on a peg"-Harvey Penick.

That’s funny because look at how many on par 3 executives hit a driver from the green tees. Doesn’t mean they hit it well, but it is the go to club for many in TV. Ya know bigger head easier to hit.

My, dad never used a driver, scratch golfer for many years. As a kid he played every morning before and after school.

[asianthree]

"The driver is the hardest club in the bag to hit. That's why they let you put it on a peg"-Harvey Penick.

That’s funny because look at how many on par 3 executives hit a driver from the green tees. Doesn’t mean they hit it well, but it is the go to club for many in TV. Ya know bigger head must be easier to hit.

My, dad never used a driver, scratch golfer for many years. As a kid he played every morning before and after school. He didn’t own a driver so never had one in his bag.

[coconutmama]

Probably because most of us don’t use the reservation system and just call to see if there are openings. When I play the pitch and putt they’re usually quite busy.

P & Ps are busy only as a last resort, when one can’t get a tee time for 2 or more on an executive course.

Looked last week, 3 days in advance on executive courses, for 2 people to play. Only spots available were before 8AM or after 4:20PM. Plenty of P & Ps open for 2 or more all day long.

Our main objection is being charged points for fake courses.

[golfing eagles]

Exactly why they need more executives and less glorified mini golf. Try walking onto an executive this time of the year and finding an open spot.

I could say exactly the same thing as to why they need more championship courses and less glorified "pitch and putt" executives. But that is only because I don't bother to play executives. However, in reality, it is the executives that are hard to get a tee time on (i.e.: free), so more of them would probably satisfy the masses. (Read the entire post, I am agreeing with you :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

[golfing eagles]

A golf shot that is less than a full swing, but more than a small "chip" is referred to as a "pitch".

It's not a term that is used often in TV golf commentary. However, the "P" club, which in a full set is lofted one club more than a 9-iron is the "Pitching Wedge".

Something in the neighborhood of 40yards down to 10 yards might be referred to as a "pitch". The exact distances are not specific.

Actually, to be technical, the distance doesn't matter. A "chip" is defined as a short shot that rolls >50% of the distance: a "pitch" travels >50% in the air.

[golfing eagles]

Anyone can hit a driver and there are multiple people who use them on par 3 exec.

But a short game can take skill, and let’s face it most greens here can be a challenge because who ever placed that pin last night has anger issues.

Plus the walk on a P&P is forced exercise and that may be one of the reasons why they are not as popular. Some find it a challenge to walk from their house to the curb for trash, much less walk small venue

Yes, and you'll find most of them in the paper under "holes in one" after skulling a drive 60 yards with the flagstick getting in the way

[Altavia]

Right, but since all the p & p’s are south of 44, shouldn’t the relative comparison be as a % of the holes south of 44? After all, this thread is about why are they building more of them. The relevancy of the question is all about where golf is being constructed, and it isn’t north of 44.

From another point of view: if you compare acreage, it looks like a P&P takes roughly 1/3 the area of An Exec

Maintenance cost is lower.

Throughput of golfers is faster.

P&P's keep golfers some would rather not see playing ahead of them off the other courses ;)

Relative to the courses mentioned in the latest video, the P&P iappears to be something less than 5% of the land dedicated to golf.

There is a lot of land dedicated to golf South of the Turnpike.

[mntlblok]

Haven’t had an issue of finding short notice exec for last 5 years, no matter what month it is.

Find high season has multiple spots especially because colder mornings, keeps many no shows, and those who get to the course 20 minutes early go right to the line.

Usually reason one can’t find a time either system, or call same day is because one only chooses something close, their favorite, or certain levels. Willingness to drive to new areas is key to tee times, besides keeps your game sharper instead of plays the same course.

I play with a small group that will not travel more than 15 minutes and only want to play between certain hours. Shut outs are normal year round for them

Fascinating to learn of such "short notice" experience. We're still learning our way around. Enjoyed the P&P's even in the summer heat for the couple of months before our cart arrived. Still learning the "ins and outs" of the reservation system. Checking the "open times" for the next 3 days, we find only very early or "just before dark" slots available for two.

*However*, the past few decades have taught me that there can be disconnects between reservation/appointment systems and human nature. Seeing the gaming of systems with no regard for how it affects others is one of my lifelong pet peeves. "Overbooking" is one of the clumsy "fixes" that comes to mind. . .

We *have* noticed that "no shows" seem to be at least "not rare" at the executives. You have me wondering now if just showing up as a couple and waiting for an opening might be a viable option - at least at venues where chipping practice is an option - can *always* use more of that. Bears testing. I will say that some of the most friendly and helpful folks with whom we've dealt here have been the starters' shacks folks, with very few exceptions. Another thought about the likelihood of success with such a strategy is what one of the starters shared with us - that it is also not rare for a couple to reserve a tee time with two "guests", but then the guests miraculously never actually make it to the party. Might be just the type of folks I'd get a kick out of joining up with. :-)

Our limited experience with the reservation system has been kinda frustrating. My one attempt at including a long list of executive course "options" apparently was irrelevant, or maybe I just failed to understand the system. The course and time that we "won" was a ridiculously long ride away (via golf cart) and was *not* one that was on our rather extensive "list". Interesting adventure. A couple of similar such "long ride" adventures have convinced us that they're just not our "cup of tea".

We've recently returned to Mickeylee for a couple of outings and, as we're both still pretty mobile, have enjoyed ourselves. And, it's interesting to learn that there *is* a difference between hitting short to mid irons and hitting those wedges. Had gotten to where I was stobbing a lot of the wedges back in the summer, but now looks like those skills need some re-honing. :-) Maybe not a bad option for the "high season". . .

[Laker14]

Actually, to be technical, the distance doesn't matter. A "chip" is defined as a short shot that rolls >50% of the distance: a "pitch" travels >50% in the air.

Interesting. Been playing most of my life and came from a family of golfers. I don't remember it being defined so specifically. Never knew that.
Golf teaches me something everyday (in addition to the the fact that I'm not very good at it).

[golfing eagles]

Interesting. Been playing most of my life and came from a family of golfers. I don't remember it being defined so specifically. Never knew that.
Golf teaches me something everyday (in addition to the the fact that I'm not very good at it).

I've been playing for 55 years, and I didn't know that either until a PGA pro told me that about 6 months ago.

But, from national golfer:

By definition, a chip shot is when the ball is going to run further than it carries
A pitch shot is defined as a shot close to the green where the ball will carry more than it runs out

[biker1]

It doesn't work that way. When making a tee time request, you have to specify "yes" or "no" for the "Any course?" entry. If you select "yes", then the request system will attempt to provide you a reservation on any of the executives within your time window. If you select "no", you will need to select, from the list presented on the next page, which courses you are willing to play. In the latter scenario, you will not be assigned to a course that you have not selected for consideration. There are instructions on-line on how to use the web-based, as well as the phone-based, reservation system.


Our limited experience with the reservation system has been kinda frustrating. My one attempt at including a long list of executive course "options" apparently was irrelevant, or maybe I just failed to understand the system. The course and time that we "won" was a ridiculously long ride away (via golf cart) and was *not* one that was on our rather extensive "list". Interesting adventure. A couple of similar such "long ride" adventures have convinced us that they're just not our "cup of tea".

[mntlblok]

It doesn't work that way. When making a tee time request, you have to specify "yes" or "no" for the "Any course?" entry. If you select "yes", then the request system will attempt to provide you a reservation on any of the executives within your time window. If you select "no", you will need to select, from the list presented on the next page, which courses you are willing to play. In the latter scenario, you will not be assigned to a course that you have not selected for consideration. There are instructions on-line on how to use the web-based, as well as the phone-based, reservation system.
Yeah, I figured I probably just screwed up. Maybe I'll give it another look. The wifey has *finally* completely retired, so planning should become more predictable and it should make RTFM more carefully worth the trouble. :-)

As to that phone-based "system", gave up on that very quickly. Masochism is just not my style. :-)

[biker1]

Yes, I agree about the phone system. I know people who use it but I took one look at it and agreed to give them $8 a month for the web based system. The web based system is pretty good. There is some functionality that is missing but it is a unique piece of software and probably difficult, if not impossible, to improve. I have not noticed any changes in 10 years. After some use, you will become quite proficient with it.

Yeah, I figured I probably just screwed up. Maybe I'll give it another look. The wifey has *finally* completely retired, so planning should become more predictable and it should make RTFM more carefully worth the trouble. :-)

As to that phone-based "system", gave up on that very quickly. Masochism is just not my style. :-)

[Laker14]

I've been playing for 55 years, and I didn't know that either until a PGA pro told me that about 6 months ago.

But, from national golfer:

By definition, a chip shot is when the ball is going to run further than it carries
A pitch shot is defined as a shot close to the green where the ball will carry more than it runs out

I found that rather "loose" definition also. By your rather "strict" definition, some of my drives qualify as chips. :oops:

[golfing eagles]

I found that rather "loose" definition also. By your rather "strict" definition, some of my drives qualify as chips. :oops:

As would so called "holes in one" on a 55 yard hole with a driver dead topped:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[retiredguy123]

Actually, to be technical, the distance doesn't matter. A "chip" is defined as a short shot that rolls >50% of the distance: a "pitch" travels >50% in the air.
So, when a duffer drives the ball off the tee and it only rolls 10 feet in front of the tee box, it is a chip. But, when a pro hits a 300 yard drive, it is a pitch?

[Laker14]

That’s funny because look at how many on par 3 executives hit a driver from the green tees. Doesn’t mean they hit it well, but it is the go to club for many in TV. Ya know bigger head must be easier to hit.

My, dad never used a driver, scratch golfer for many years. As a kid he played every morning before and after school. He didn’t own a driver so never had one in his bag.

I never saw your dad play, but I'd bet money that if he could keep the driver in play, with accuracy, he'd have been happy to use it. He went with something else, shorter, straighter, and more easily controlled, not because the driver was too easy to hit.
For many years I played on a tight, tree lined course that punished severely the wayward tee shot. I played to a low single digit handicap (never quite a scratch), hitting 3 wood off tees because I couldn't keep the driver in the short grass. There were maybe a half-dozen players (one a two-time NY State Amateur Champion and former Walker Cup player) with legitimate chances to win the Club Championship. Sadly, I was not among them. Every one of them was in that class because they could hit the driver and control it. I could chip and putt with them, but they were hitting two clubs( or more) less into every green.

[Laker14]

As would so called "holes in one" on a 55 yard hole with a driver dead topped:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

The very first ace I ever witnessed (not mine, sadly) was a topped shot from an elevated tee, 155 yards, downhill all the way. It was autumn in Columbus, OH, and the ground was covered with leaves, the sun low and glaring, and we couldn't see the ball but we could see the leaves jumping in the wake of this scorching worm-burner. Eventually the white orb appeared greenside, and found its way to the cup.
Like they say, "no pictures, just numbers."

[MrChip72]

Exactly why they need more executives and less glorified mini golf. Try walking onto an executive this time of the year and finding an open spot.

On days that I'm not golfing, I practice pitching/chipping everyday beside either P&P or executive courses. Usually mid afternoon. I would say the past couple weeks that almost a third of the groups teeing off only have 3 golfers which is a walk-on spot that could've been used. It seems like most people saying it's hard to walk-on don't try it much, or at least not on many different executive courses. Some are easier than others.

[Laker14]

On days that I'm not golfing, I practice pitching/chipping everyday beside either P&P or executive courses. Usually mid afternoon. I would say the past couple weeks that almost a third of the groups teeing off only have 3 golfers which is a walk-on spot that could've been used. It seems like most people saying it's hard to walk-on don't try it much, or at least not on many different executive courses. Some are easier than others.

It has been my experience that the people who complain that the executive courses are "impossible to get on" are trying to be too picky about the course, the time, or both, and often they are trying to get times for several groups of players, and they want to play 5 times a week like that.

In other words, their expectations are unrealistic.

[JGibson]

Soon they will offer for a nominal fee a priority executive course membership.

Jan/Feb is go out as a single months and meet new people.

[charmed59]

Just looking at tomorrow, for two people between 8am and 1pm there are 46 tee times open on the pitch and putts. There is one tee time open on any executive (lowlands).

I like the pitch and putts. Unfortunately, neither my husband nor my father can walk that far. Our older golfers with stamina problems or mobility issues can’t play those. When you look around at the number of golfers with the course access passes you realize why those courses that aren’t accessible have more availability.