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Mlogan22@tampabay.rr.com
01-07-2024, 08:49 AM
I have a Kohler toilet that is leaking where the tank and the bowl connect. I thought it was just a gasket needing replaced, which I always did in the past. These new toilets are different than I am used to working on so I called Mike Scott Plumbing. They told me I need to replace the whole toilet to the tune of $600!!!! I had him replace the Kohler Class 5 Canister Seal for $109. hoping that would fix it. It did not, and the toilet is still leaking when I flush it. I have enclosed a picture to show these big canisters in the toilet for reference. Does anyone know how to fix this without replacing the whole toilet? Thank you.

retiredguy123
01-07-2024, 09:02 AM
The cannister is pretty standard for the newer toilets. It has the same function as the older flappers. At the bottom of the cannister, there is a yellow (or red), 4-inch diameter gasket that you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot for less than $10 and they are very easy to replace. If you have trouble, watch a YouTube video. I assume that is what Mike Scott Plumbing replaced, but it may still be leaking. I would try cleaning the gasket and the ring that it sits on. If that doesn't work, replace the gasket.

Another possible issue that can cause this problem is a leaking fill valve. After you flush the toilet, the water level in the tank should rise to about one-quarter inch below the top of the cannister, and then the fill valve should shut off. But, if the fill valve has a slow leak, the water may continue to rise slowly until the water overflows into the cannister. To check that, flush the toilet and check the water level in the tank about an hour later. If the water level is at the top of the cannister, then you probably have a leak in the fill valve. Again, it is very easy to fix.

Bill14564
01-07-2024, 09:09 AM
This page on removing the toilet tank (https://toilethaven.com/2020/02/24/how-to-remove-a-toilet-tank-easy-steps-with-pictures/) might help.

Mike Scott Plumbing has been pretty good in the past so I would hesitate to second guess them. On the other hand, for a couple hours work and the cost of a few parts you could try fixing it yourself and potentially save several hundred dollars.

frayedends
01-07-2024, 09:24 AM
I'm confused, they told you that you have to replace the whole toilet, then they were willing to try a repair? If I was a plumber and knew a repair wouldn't work I'd refuse the job.

retiredguy123
01-07-2024, 09:25 AM
This page on removing the toilet tank (https://toilethaven.com/2020/02/24/how-to-remove-a-toilet-tank-easy-steps-with-pictures/) might help.

Mike Scott Plumbing has been pretty good in the past so I would hesitate to second guess them. On the other hand, for a couple hours work and the cost of a few parts you could try fixing it yourself and potentially save several hundred dollars.
I agree, but if the leak is between the tank and the bowl, I would expect water to flow onto the floor. I cannot understand why a plumber would expect to fix the problem by replacing the cannister seal. Something seems to be missing from this issue.

retiredguy123
01-07-2024, 09:28 AM
I'm confused, they told you that you have to replace the whole toilet, then they were willing to try a repair? If I was a plumber and knew a repair wouldn't work I'd refuse the job.
If the recommendation to replace the toilet was made over the phone, it was probably not a plumber talking to the OP.

Bill14564
01-07-2024, 09:33 AM
I'm confused, they told you that you have to replace the whole toilet, then they were willing to try a repair? If I was a plumber and knew a repair wouldn't work I'd refuse the job.

"I had him replace the Kohler Class 5 Canister Seal for $109. hoping that would fix it." Might be a case of "the customer is always right." If the customer wanted to pay for a new seal just to give it a try, even after being advised it probably wouldn't work, then the plumber was just doing what the customer wanted.

Bill14564
01-07-2024, 09:40 AM
I agree, but if the leak is between the tank and the bowl, I would expect water to flow onto the floor. I cannot understand why a plumber would expect to fix the problem by replacing the cannister seal. Something seems to be missing from this issue.

Just guessing:

The plumber may have recognized the problem was cracked porcelain and not just a bad seal. After all, with no moving parts how does a canister seal go bad anyway? The plumber did not expect the seal to fix the problem. The plumber advised that a whole new toilet was required. The customer suggested/demanded/pushed/asked for the plumber to install the new seal just to see if it might work.

If the plumber had replaced the seal on his own and it didn't work then I would criticize the plumber. It was the customer who asked for the replacement even after being advised of the recommended course of action, the plumber was just giving the customer what he asked for.

jebartle
01-07-2024, 09:45 AM
352-572-8954 Roger Pearce, very popular, reasonable and fair.

Topspinmo
01-07-2024, 10:24 AM
Tank leaking don’t give much of where leak is? Need put drop of food coloring in tank, hopefully that will identify where leak is.

By looking at picture the two tank mount screw seals looks deteriorating? ( if any chemicals cleaners are put in the tank it will deteriorate seals) if it was me I remove tank and get fluidmaster kits and start over, cheap and easy to adjust if fluidmaster will fit Kohler? Kits Says universal?

Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Fluidmaster-400AKRP10-400AKR-Universal-Install/dp/B0002YVK44/ref=asc_df_B0002YVK44/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167155689281&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1893228520945382461&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011519&hvtargid=pla-273474626322&psc=1&mcid=b9a3e06e96f63f9ebcd09579113237bc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIreOjicjLgwMVtadaBR323A87EAQYCiAB EgIhSfD_BwE)

For 600 bucks if it was me throw kohler away and buy American standard.

https://www.build.com/product/summary/872692?uid=2227053&jmtest=gg-gbav2_2227053&inv2=1&&source=gg-gba-pla_2227053!c11770682300!a112783451445!dc!ng&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjK2J9cjLgwMVnUt_AB11AQIzEAQYAiAB EgIwb_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

This how clean my tank is and I haven’t done nothing to it since may 22.

Keefelane66
01-07-2024, 10:29 AM
A quick fix for the leaking canister seal until I get replacement. Coat liberally with Vasoline on seal temporary fix.

CitFly
01-08-2024, 05:49 AM
Amazon silicon seals work best for me.
Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BD6MCFL7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1)

Berwin
01-08-2024, 06:16 AM
My leak was the tank mounting screw. One was badly deteriorated and the other one was fine. Since they came in packs of two, I replaced both and problem solved. Since I had the tank off, I replaced to gasket too even though it was OK. Our other toilet was leaking a little around the base occasionally. I called the plumber I had used before and asked him how much to replace the wax ring (at 70, I have pulled my last toilet). He said it couldn't be the wax ring or it would leak every time it was flushed. I told him to replace it anyway. Problem solved. Sometimes you need to know when to argue with the plumber.

melfromohio1959
01-08-2024, 07:48 AM
I love those flapper style American standard. I hate the canister Kohler. In my original post. I said the leak was coming from where the tank in the toilet connect because I’ve watched the water leak out from there onto the floor. Good idea about switching up a tank. Might have to go to the dump or something.

Sandy and Ed
01-08-2024, 07:54 AM
352-572-8954 Roger Pearce, very popular, reasonable and fair.
I’ll second Roger. Competent and very fair in price.

Sandy and Ed
01-08-2024, 07:56 AM
My leak was the tank mounting screw. One was badly deteriorated and the other one was fine. Since they came in packs of two, I replaced both and problem solved. Since I had the tank off, I replaced to gasket too even though it was OK. Our other toilet was leaking a little around the base occasionally. I called the plumber I had used before and asked him how much to replace the wax ring (at 70, I have pulled my last toilet). He said it couldn't be the wax ring or it would leak every time it was flushed. I told him to replace it anyway. Problem solved. Sometimes you need to know when to argue with the plumber.
Yep. Easy solutions don’t put much money in a greedy plumber’s pocket. Shamefully

EatthMama
01-08-2024, 08:02 AM
Kohler toilets need Kohler parts. I am a realtor - I had a house with a toilet with the very same issue. People tried repairing it, but didn’t work. Called a plumber in, and that’s how I learned that you must use Kohler parts. Best wishes!

Johnsocat
01-08-2024, 08:02 AM
I love those flapper style American standard. I hate the canister Kohler. In my original post. I said the leak was coming from where the tank in the toilet connect because I’ve watched the water leak out from there onto the floor. Good idea about switching up a tank. Might have to go to the dump or something.

Want to let you know in case you dont: some toilet/tanks have different tank mounting configurations. Not all brands are interchangeable.

Snakster66
01-08-2024, 08:24 AM
When I was down visiting my parents last week, I noticed the 2nd bathroom toilet would run every 5 minutes or so. I asked them if they knew it was running. They said no, but my dad said he knew the master was running from time to time. I took the lid off and could see the water going down. I felt the yellow seal and it was as hard as plastic. Went up to home depot and got two Koehler yellow gaskets for about $17. In about 5 minutes I had replaced both and problem was solved. The old ones literally broke into pieces trying to remove them. The seal is always the first thing to try and it's very easy to replace; no plumber needed.

If it was a case of water leaking onto the floor from the upper tank, then yes, look at the gasket from the tank to the lower bowl and make sure the screws are tight.

retiredguy123
01-08-2024, 08:33 AM
I love those flapper style American standard. I hate the canister Kohler. In my original post. I said the leak was coming from where the tank in the toilet connect because I’ve watched the water leak out from there onto the floor. Good idea about switching up a tank. Might have to go to the dump or something.
Your original post didn't say that water was leaking onto the floor. Unless there is a crack in the tank or the bowl, I don't understand why Mike Scott Plumbing would recommend replacing the toilet. The connection between the tank and the bowl should be something that a plumber can fix.

HiHoSteveO
01-08-2024, 08:37 AM
When I was down visiting my parents last week, I noticed the 2nd bathroom toilet would run every 5 minutes or so. I asked them if they knew it was running. They said no, but my dad said he knew the master was running from time to time. I took the lid off and could see the water going down. I felt the yellow seal and it was as hard as plastic. Went up to home depot and got two Koehler yellow gaskets for about $17. In about 5 minutes I had replaced both and problem was solved. The old ones literally broke into pieces trying to remove them. The seal is always the first thing to try and it's very easy to replace; no plumber needed.

If it was a case of water leaking onto the floor from the upper tank, then yes, look at the gasket from the tank to the lower bowl and make sure the screws are tight.

A very good first post! Thank you for contributing...

Jacintod
01-08-2024, 09:10 AM
I know someone who replaced a brand new toilet for a universal toilet. They have it in storage. If you're interested I'll ask how much they want for it. Let me know

Topspinmo
01-08-2024, 09:15 AM
Just guessing:

The plumber may have recognized the problem was cracked porcelain and not just a bad seal. After all, with no moving parts how does a canister seal go bad anyway? The plumber did not expect the seal to fix the problem. The plumber advised that a whole new toilet was required. The customer suggested/demanded/pushed/asked for the plumber to install the new seal just to see if it might work.

If the plumber had replaced the seal on his own and it didn't work then I would criticize the plumber. It was the customer who asked for the replacement even after being advised of the recommended course of action, the plumber was just giving the customer what he asked for.

“How does canister seal go bad anyway? “ All seals/rubber/plastic in tank deteriorate over time even quicker if tank cleaner chemicals added in tank. IMO if going add cleaner bowl only. In his case it seals sealing tank to bowl. Two mounting screw seals or tank to bowl seal.

I would be very surprised if tank or bowl cracked unless unusual bumping the tank (or manufacture defects?) That would have to be big hit to do to big seal that seals the tank to the bowl. But, it’s Kohler! very expensive and very expensive parts.

Happydaz
01-08-2024, 09:24 AM
My two toilets both needed the Kohler fill valves replaced. One toilet kept running and wouldn’t shut off completely and the other wasn’t filling the bowl up high enough and filled up the tank very slowly. Went to Lowe’s and Amazon. ( Lowe’s only had one Kohler fill valve.) Total cost for fill valves was $34 and the additional cost of two new yellow washers on the other plastic canister. Turned off water, unscrewed water hose from bottom of tank, (make sure to save black washer in hose connection) then unscrew white plastic washer from under the tank (You may need pliers) pull out old fill valve and replace with new one. Hand tighten. Screw water hose back on. Turn water back on. Check for leaks. Worked for me. I did have to watch a lot of YouTube, though. To replace black canister looks like a much bigger job as you would have to take the tank off the top to replace it. I haven’t done that yet. (Hope I never have to!)

Topspinmo
01-08-2024, 09:28 AM
Kohler toilets need Kohler parts. I am a realtor - I had a house with a toilet with the very same issue. People tried repairing it, but didn’t work. Called a plumber in, and that’s how I learned that you must use Kohler parts. Best wishes!


Because toilet fill valves are universal, you do not need to buy one from the manufacturer of your toilet.May 2023.

Not my words googles

nancyre
01-08-2024, 09:34 AM
I have a Kohler toilet that is leaking where the tank and the bowl connect. I thought it was just a gasket needing replaced, which I always did in the past. These new toilets are different than I am used to working on so I called Mike Scott Plumbing. They told me I need to replace the whole toilet to the tune of $600!!!! I had him replace the Kohler Class 5 Canister Seal for $109. hoping that would fix it. It did not, and the toilet is still leaking when I flush it. I have enclosed a picture to show these big canisters in the toilet for reference. Does anyone know how to fix this without replacing the whole toilet? Thank you. Call Kohler and see if it is covered under a warranty

Bill14564
01-08-2024, 09:36 AM
“How does canister seal go bad anyway? “ All seals/rubber/plastic in tank deteriorate over time even quicker if tank cleaner chemicals added in tank. IMO if going add cleaner bowl only. In his case it seals sealing tank to bowl. Two mounting screw seals or tank to bowl seal.

I would be very surprised if tank or bowl cracked unless unusual bumping the tank (or manufacture defects?) That would have to be big hit to do to big seal that seals the tank to the bowl. But, it’s Kohler! very expensive and very expensive parts.

Possibly, but....

- As reported, the leak only happens when the toilet is flushed which means it isn't within the tank where the tank cleaner chemicals sit.
- If the mounting screws were the problem then the leak would occur all the time, not just when the toilet is flushed.
- The OP doesn't say the tank was removed to replace the Kohler seal. If it was not removed then the seal that was replaced was a seal that is normally exposed to tank water which means it would be leaking all the time, not just when it is flushed.
- If the tank was removed to replace the seal then the plumber would have been able to replace the tank-to-bowl seal if that was the problem

It is certainly possible the tank-to-bowl seal is the issue and simply replacing that will fix it. The reasons I don't believe this is likely are: 1. I have seen those last longer than 25 years; and 2. The Mike Scott plumber recommended a $600 toilet rather than a much less expensive seal replacement.

Still, $600 is a lot of money so it is probably worth an hour of time to remove the tank to find exactly where the leak is.

Topspinmo
01-08-2024, 09:53 AM
Possibly, but....

- As reported, the leak only happens when the toilet is flushed which means it isn't within the tank where the tank cleaner chemicals sit.
- If the mounting screws were the problem then the leak would occur all the time, not just when the toilet is flushed.
- The OP doesn't say the tank was removed to replace the Kohler seal. If it was not removed then the seal that was replaced was a seal that is normally exposed to tank water which means it would be leaking all the time, not just when it is flushed.
- If the tank was removed to replace the seal then the plumber would have been able to replace the tank-to-bowl seal if that was the problem

It is certainly possible the tank-to-bowl seal is the issue and simply replacing that will fix it. The reasons I don't believe this is likely are: 1. I have seen those last longer than 25 years; and 2. The Mike Scott plumber recommended a $600 toilet rather than a much less expensive seal replacement.

Still, $600 is a lot of money so it is probably worth an hour of time to remove the tank to find exactly where the leak is.

Agree, I would also reseal the tank also see what happens. Most don’t have those skills and have to rely on plumbers. I don’t know if it’s old picture but rubber seal on two mounting screws looked deteriorated to me?

Songbird
01-08-2024, 10:04 AM
I had the same problem. Be careful about terminology. The yellow or red casket under the canister is easy to replace and has to be done from time to time. That is not your problem.
You need to replace the canister which has a seal under the toilet tank. It's not easy, but you have to remove the tank. You will probably need an oil filter wrench to remove the large nut in order to remove the canister and replace it. You would only need to replace the toilet if there is a crack in the toilet. It can happen, but it's more likely the seal between the tank and the bowl is the problem. The Kohler model installed in many homes has a design flaw. The bracket that attaches the tank to the bowl has only two bolts in line (you can see them protruding on each side of the bowl. This makes the connection a bit unstable. Other models have three bolts for the attachment in a triangle arrangement. Much more stable. An honest, good plumber should be able to replace the cannister at much less cost than replacing the toilet.

Ladays1978@gmail.com
01-08-2024, 10:07 AM
The seal between the bowl section and tank needs to be replaced.[

QUOTE=Mlogan22@tampabay.rr.com;2288686]I have a Kohler toilet that is leaking where the tank and the bowl connect. I thought it was just a gasket needing replaced, which I always did in the past. These new toilets are different than I am used to working on so I called Mike Scott Plumbing. They told me I need to replace the whole toilet to the tune of $600!!!! I had him replace the Kohler Class 5 Canister Seal for $109. hoping that would fix it. It did not, and the toilet is still leaking when I flush it. I have enclosed a picture to show these big canisters in the toilet for reference. Does anyone know how to fix this without replacing the whole toilet? Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Replace the seal between the bowl section and tank.

ryanwest45
01-08-2024, 06:20 PM
I had a similar issue with my toilets. Both times it turned out to be the rubber gaskets on the bolts. I replaced the bolts and gaskets and the issue went away.

retiredguy123
01-08-2024, 06:34 PM
Personally, I would hire a plumber to repair the toilet. But, I am confused as to why Mike Scott Plumbing would recommend a new toilet. They would need to explain that one to me.

Bill14564
01-08-2024, 06:55 PM
Personally, I would hire a plumber to repair the toilet. But, I am confused as to why Mike Scott Plumbing would recommend a new toilet. They would need to explain that one to me.

Yes, that is troubling. I hope we learn what the problem is.