Water heater replacement by Home Depot

[npwalters]

I needed to replace my water heater due to a small leak. I found the one I wanted at Home Depot. 40 gallon electric with a 6 year warranty at a cost of $439 plus tax.

I checked with Home Depots installation contractor and told the lady which unit I wanted. She gave me a quote of $1,400 to install it (in the same location in my garage) and remove the existing one. I questioned the approximate $800 dollars JUST for installation and she became very condescending and told me that was a standard quote, I didn't understand the costs involved, and if I called Lowes it would be the same since she also did those quotes.

I said no thanks. The next day I went to Home Depot, bought the water heater and the items I needed to install it. I drained and removed the old one and installed the new in less than 3 hours. Full disclosure - since it is in the garage and the water connections are easily visible and accessible I used Shark Bite connectors. I put the old one on the street and called for pickup which cost me $10.

Bottom line is the entire cost was under $500 by doing it myself. Yes, I am a little handy and comfortable with the electrical and basic plumbing.

There are contractors on this site that are much more reasonable than my experience with the HD sub. I post this to inform anyone that cares that there ARE contractors out there that will take advantage of you, especially in TV. A few phone calls could save you a few bucks.

[Topspinmo]

I needed to replace my water heater due to a small leak. I found the one I wanted at Home Depot. 40 gallon electric with a 6 year warranty at a cost of $439 plus tax.

I checked with Home Depots installation contractor and told the lady which unit I wanted. She gave me a quote of $1,400 to install it (in the same location in my garage) and remove the existing one. I questioned the approximate $800 dollars JUST for installation and she became very condescending and told me that was a standard quote, I didn't understand the costs involved, and if I called Lowes it would be the same since she also did those quotes.

I said no thanks. The next day I went to Home Depot, bought the water heater and the items I needed to install it. I drained and removed the old one and installed the new in less than 3 hours. Full disclosure - since it is in the garage and the water connections are easily visible and accessible I used Shark Bite connectors. I put the old one on the street and called for pickup which cost me $10.

Bottom line is the entire cost was under $500 by doing it myself. Yes, I am a little handy and comfortable with the electrical and basic plumbing.

There are contractors on this site that are much more reasonable than my experience with the HD sub. I post this to inform anyone that cares that there ARE contractors out there that will take advantage of you, especially in TV. A few phone calls could save you a few bucks.


Job well done, good for you.:bigbow::bigbow:

[retiredguy123]

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code.

[photo1902]

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code.

You read my mind. And let's not even get in to the SharkBite fittings :)

[Bill14564]

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code.

Good to ask but since he replaced an existing tank the expansion tank and drain pan should have already been in place.

[photo1902]

Good to ask but since he replaced an existing tank the expansion tank and drain pan should have already been in place.

The expansion tank is attached to the water heater. Best practice is to NOT use the existing expansion tank, but to replace. Not to mention reinforcing the installation of the tank with proper fittings (not having the 3/4" CPVC) support it.

[Bill14564]

The expansion tank is attached to the water heater. Best practice is to NOT use the existing expansion tank, but to replace. Not to mention reinforcing the installation of the tank with proper fittings (not having the 3/4" CPVC) support it.

If the expansion tank was working with the old heater it will work just as well with the new heater. if it was installed properly with the old heater then it will still be installed properly with the new heater.

[retiredguy123]

Some plumbers will omit the expansion tank if there is not an existing one already installed. I think it is a gray area in the code because they will call it a "repair" instead of a replacement. As a homeowner, I would not allow this, and would require the plumber to install a new expansion tank.

[photo1902]

If the expansion tank was working with the old heater it will work just as well with the new heater. if it was installed properly with the old heater then it will still be installed properly with the new heater.

I don't dispute that, in the least. But we're assuming the expansion tank has not failed and that the homeowner has tested the water pressure for the home (and made sure the existing tank matches that pressure). Given the fact a new expansion tank is $50, just install a new one (and a more robust method of supporting it)

[retiredguy123]

If the expansion tank was working with the old heater it will work just as well with the new heater. if it was installed properly with the old heater then it will still be installed properly with the new heater.
Personally, I would replace the expansion tank, working or not. Not very expensive compared to the overall project.

[photo1902]

Some plumbers will omit the expansion tank if there is not an existing one already installed. I think it is a gray area in the code because they will call it a "repair" instead of a replacement. As a homeowner, I would not allow this, and would require the plumber to install a new expansion tank.

My understanding of the code, is that on a replacement, if a water heater didn't have an expansion tank (prior to being required), and a replacement is installed, an expansion tank would be required. I believe this is similar to any retrofit, whether it's plumbing or electric. Of course I could be wrong :)

[retiredguy123]

My understanding of the code, is that on a replacement, if a water heater didn't have an expansion tank (prior to being required), and a replacement is installed, an expansion tank would be required. I believe this is similar to any retrofit, whether it's plumbing or electric. Of course I could be wrong :)
I agree, but I don't think a permit is required to replace a water heater, so plumbers can get away with it. The best thing for a homeowner to do is to require all potential installers to include the expansion tank in their quote.

[jswirs]

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code. You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.

[elevatorman]

You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.

I live in Duval, a 2009 build, mine is located in the garage and has an outside drain.

[retiredguy123]

You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.
Not joking. It is a standard code requirement, and all new houses built in The Villages within at least the past 10 to 15 years have it. Some older houses may not have a drain pan, but one should be added when the water heater is replaced.

[Ellwoodrick]

:pepper2::pepper2::pepper2:Good for you! Having done a lot of my own plumbing work over the years a project like that is well within the reach of many who want to tackle it.

[Berwin]

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?

[Blackbird45]

When it comes to the expansion tank, I discovered a massive leak two days before I was supposed to go up north for the holidays.
I called Frank Gay who sent a plumber within an hour he gave me the option to replace the expansion tank alone or the whole water tank, since I didn't have the time to go through the whole tank, I went with option one. He also suggested calling a restoration company to repair any damage the water had caused. They were here in less than 1/2 hour and put drying machines in the garage where the tank is enclosed in a closet and the wall in my kitchen that butts up against the garage wall. Also had to call for air conditioning repair because the water also caused damage to a small electrical panel that controls my thermostat. When I returned the insurance company sent an inspector to survey the damage. They connected me with a company that will repair whatever damage there is and the insurance company said they will also put me in alternative housing if they have to shut off my water to do the repairs. The insurance company said they will pay for all the damages due to the leak, but not the cost of what cause the leak, which was the expansion tank and cost about $500. I commend the person who did his own repairs, but you better be handy, I don't think you want to go through what I'm dealing with right now.

[frayedends]

I had Home Depot installing a new tank for me up here in MA. They arrived, brought the heater down to my basement. I confirmed it was the correct model. Then they tried to jack up the install price by saying they had to replace the pressure relief valve and then lying and saying it was a different size so I needed to pay for adapters. It was not a different size. The pressure valve was already part of HD's install package. They were just scammers. I made them hall it away.

If it wasn't gas I'd have installed myself, but I ended up buying it and having it installed by a local plumber that I could trust.

[wamley]

Not necessarily, I had my HWH replaced as it was installed in 2005 when the house was built with no expansion tank. SECO replaced the tank, added the expansion tank for $25 a month for 5 years $1500. I thought that was resonable vs laying out 12-15 hundred up front.

[Romad]

You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.

Quite a few actually. However, the drain pan and piping are already there, so I don’t understand the question.

[retiredguy123]

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?
Not just Florida, they are required almost everywhere. The expansion tank helps to maintain a safe water pressure in your house. It has air in the top of the tank that prevents unsafe pressure when the hot water expands due to thermal expansion. It allows the expanding water to push up on the diaphragm that separates the water from the air in the expansion tank.

For example, if you use a lot of hot water by taking several showers, the hot water in the water heater will be replaced with cold water. Then, if you turn off all plumbing outlets and leave the house, the water heater will heat up the cold water in the tank. This will cause thermal expansion and a significant rise in water pressure. The expansion tank allows the pressure to be relieved.

[Bill14564]

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?

They have expansion tanks to prevent pressure build up when water is heated and expands.

All homes have a backflow preventer installed to protect the city water supply. This device prevents water from flowing out of your house back into the main lines. When cold water is heated it expands and takes up more space. With your faucets closed and the backflow preventer in place the expanding water has no place to go. With nowhere to go, the expansion causes the water pressure inside your home to increase, potentially to a point where something breaks.

In my home, the increased pressure forced its way out of my shower. I could see that it had leaked throughout the night and I was looking into faucet valve replacements.

The expansion tank provides a space for the water to expand into. Instead of increasing pressure in the lines, the water flows into the tank. The pressure in the lines may increase a tiny amount but nothing like the increase if there was no room for expansion.

I was lucky and was able to repair my tank. I also bought a replacement that now sits in the box ready to be installed when it is needed.

[Babubhat]

I once tried to have them install a dishwasher. Complete fiasco. Installers they sent had no clue. Sent it back. Never again

[Boffin]

I needed to replace my water heater due to a small leak. I found the one I wanted at Home Depot. 40 gallon electric with a 6 year warranty at a cost of $439 plus tax.

I checked with Home Depots installation contractor and told the lady which unit I wanted. She gave me a quote of $1,400 to install it (in the same location in my garage) and remove the existing one. I questioned the approximate $800 dollars JUST for installation and she became very condescending and told me that was a standard quote, I didn't understand the costs involved, and if I called Lowes it would be the same since she also did those quotes.

I said no thanks. The next day I went to Home Depot, bought the water heater and the items I needed to install it. I drained and removed the old one and installed the new in less than 3 hours. Full disclosure - since it is in the garage and the water connections are easily visible and accessible I used Shark Bite connectors. I put the old one on the street and called for pickup which cost me $10.

Bottom line is the entire cost was under $500 by doing it myself. Yes, I am a little handy and comfortable with the electrical and basic plumbing.

There are contractors on this site that are much more reasonable than my experience with the HD sub. I post this to inform anyone that cares that there ARE contractors out there that will take advantage of you, especially in TV. A few phone calls could save you a few bucks.

Remember to fill the expansion tank bladder with air to the correct pressure.

[1009 wilder]

if you live in the villages it will cost more to live a rip off

[Topspinmo]

You read my mind. And let's not even get in to the SharkBite fittings :)

Plumbers use shark bite style fittings. How do I know this? I had plumbing work done and guess what shark bite fittings installed. And why wouldn’t they easy to install and remove. Besides most don’t know difference between shark bite or dog bite. :faint:

[lpkruege1]

The expansion tank is attached to the water heater. Best practice is to NOT use the existing expansion tank, but to replace. Not to mention reinforcing the installation of the tank with proper fittings (not having the 3/4" CPVC) support it.

You mean like the contractor installed it? Mine was simply installed hanging on the 3/4 CPVC. So as long as the bladder is still good it simply needs to be refilled with air. They should be checked from time to time and refilled. You need to know what your water pressure is for your home. You would need a gauge to test your water pressure and then based on the tanks recommendations, fill the tank to the correct pressure. A replacement tank is about $50 the gauge and adapter another $30 but now you get rid of the yearly service call. A little time on the internet can save a lot of dollars. It depends on how handy you are and if you have any tools.

[photo1902]

Plumbers use shark bite. How do I know this? I had plumbing work done and guess what shark bite fittings installed. And why wouldn’t they easy to install and remove.

That's your perogative. I do my own plumbing, but if I hired a plumber that used SharkBites, I'd find another plumber. Also, SharkBite sells solvent weld, in addition to push-to connect, so you'd need to see which they used.

[Topspinmo]

When it comes to the expansion tank, I discovered a massive leak two days before I was supposed to go up north for the holidays.
I called Frank Gay who sent a plumber within an hour he gave me the option to replace the expansion tank alone or the whole water tank, since I didn't have the time to go through the whole tank, I went with option one. He also suggested calling a restoration company to repair any damage the water had caused. They were here in less than 1/2 hour and put drying machines in the garage where the tank is enclosed in a closet and the wall in my kitchen that butts up against the garage wall. Also had to call for air conditioning repair because the water also caused damage to a small electrical panel that controls my thermostat. When I returned the insurance company sent an inspector to survey the damage. They connected me with a company that will repair whatever damage there is and the insurance company said they will also put me in alternative housing if they have to shut off my water to do the repairs. The insurance company said they will pay for all the damages due to the leak, but not the cost of what cause the leak, which was the expansion tank and cost about $500. I commend the person who did his own repairs, but you better be handy, I don't think you want to go through what I'm dealing with right now.

The expansion tank just screws off and on. Probably the easiest plumbing work with minimal skills (meaning know how to shut water off and drain pressure and know righty righty lefty lousy) could do as long as you put thread tape on threads and pressurize it to 55 PSI or what ever water pressure is in your area. Which you can test with 8 dollar gage. Last time I brought pressure tank it was around $40 bucks took 15 mins to replace. Mine bladder was leaking sounded solid.

[TheWatcher]

Just replaced a leaking hot water tank. The tank warranty required an expansion tank be in place. The tech took a picture to document the installation. So check your warranty if you do not have an expansion tank.

[photo1902]

You mean like the contractor installed it? Mine was simply installed hanging on the 3/4 CPVC. So as long as the bladder is still good it simply needs to be refilled with air. They should be checked from time to time and refilled. You need to know what your water pressure is for your home. You would need a gauge to test your water pressure and then based on the tanks recommendations, fill the tank to the correct pressure. A replacement tank is about $50 the gauge and adapter another $30 but now you get rid of the yearly service call. A little time on the internet can save a lot of dollars. It depends on how handy you are and if you have any tools.

Having replaced many of them, I am not a fan of the way the construction plumbers mounted them standing on top of 3/4" CPVC. The photo I've attached is much more substantial, given the fact that the tank will fail (not if, but when).

[Topspinmo]

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?


Code.

[Topspinmo]

That's your perogative. I do my own plumbing, but if I hired a plumber that used SharkBites, I'd find another plumber. Also, SharkBite sells solvent weld, in addition to push-to connect, so you'd need to see which they used.


I do my own plumbing also. At the time my back was out and I couldn’t crawl under the kitchen sink. Shark bite also has removal tool that makes them easy to remove, not like the accor ones widely used you have to twist off. I also was suspicious until I watch utube pressure test With different types connections including soldered shark bite was the last one to fail all most every time.

[nn0wheremann]

You must be joking. I would like to know how many hot water tanks have drain piping to the outside when the tank is located in the garage.
Mine does. Marion County. No expansion tank. Installed in 2003 by the developer when the house was built. Lotsa hot water whenever I want it. Also, it’s a gas, not electric unit.

[PugMom]

thank you all for a very good, informational thread :BigApplause:

[nn0wheremann]

They have expansion tanks to prevent pressure build up when water is heated and expands.

All homes have a backflow preventer installed to protect the city water supply. This device prevents water from flowing out of your house back into the main lines. When cold water is heated it expands and takes up more space. With your faucets closed and the backflow preventer in place the expanding water has no place to go. With nowhere to go, the expansion causes the water pressure inside your home to increase, potentially to a point where something breaks.

In my home, the increased pressure forced its way out of my shower. I could see that it had leaked throughout the night and I was looking into faucet valve replacements.

The expansion tank provides a space for the water to expand into. Instead of increasing pressure in the lines, the water flows into the tank. The pressure in the lines may increase a tiny amount but nothing like the increase if there was no room for expansion.

I was lucky and was able to repair my tank. I also bought a replacement that now sits in the box ready to be installed when it is needed.
So, why do you need all that and a pressure relief valve and pipe that drains into the pan under the water heater, and then outside the house via the pan drain? It all seems redundant to me.

[kkingston57]

Did you also install an expansion tank? And, does it have a drain pan under the water heater with drain piping to the outside? Anyone replacing their water heater should ensure that these things are included. They are required by the code.

Two years ago, I had mine replaced and licensed well known plumber in TV did not install a pan. Asked installer and he said that it was not required since it was in the garage and garage floor was lower than living area floor and if/when tank wore out it would drain onto the driveway. Do not know if code changed since that time. He did not pull a permit and I do not know if a permit was needed.

[Bill14564]

So, why do you need all that and a pressure relief valve and pipe that drains into the pan under the water heater, and then outside the house via the pan drain? It all seems redundant to me.

The pressure relief valve on the hot water heater is designed to prevent an explosion by opening at about 150psi. The expansion tank is designed to maintain the pressure in your lines at about 60psi.

The pressure in my lines did not get high enough to open the pressure valve though it did get high enough to cause the shower to leak. While it was not high enough to risk a tank explosion it was high enough to put additional stress on all the pipes, fittings, joints, and valves in my house. It probably/hopefully did not cause damage but it could have. A working expansion tank that keeps the pressure near normal prevents that additional stress.

[kkingston57]

I needed to replace my water heater due to a small leak. I found the one I wanted at Home Depot. 40 gallon electric with a 6 year warranty at a cost of $439 plus tax.

I checked with Home Depots installation contractor and told the lady which unit I wanted. She gave me a quote of $1,400 to install it (in the same location in my garage) and remove the existing one. I questioned the approximate $800 dollars JUST for installation and she became very condescending and told me that was a standard quote, I didn't understand the costs involved, and if I called Lowes it would be the same since she also did those quotes.

I said no thanks. The next day I went to Home Depot, bought the water heater and the items I needed to install it. I drained and removed the old one and installed the new in less than 3 hours. Full disclosure - since it is in the garage and the water connections are easily visible and accessible I used Shark Bite connectors. I put the old one on the street and called for pickup which cost me $10.

Bottom line is the entire cost was under $500 by doing it myself. Yes, I am a little handy and comfortable with the electrical and basic plumbing.

There are contractors on this site that are much more reasonable than my experience with the HD sub. I post this to inform anyone that cares that there ARE contractors out there that will take advantage of you, especially in TV. A few phone calls could save you a few bucks.

Good for you. Mike Scott did ours 2 years ago and they charged about $800 and heater cost about $500 at that time. 2-3 hours labor. Very satisfied. HD and Lowes used to be much better and fair in the past but not any longer. They probably charge everybody the same installation price. Simple jobs make more money, complex jobs less money

[jrref]

I'm kind of surprised that you had this experience with Home Depot. When we bought our home 2 years ago I had them install a new higher efficiency electric hot water heater without issue. The price was competitive. They installed a new expansion tank and pan, etc without me asking. I agree you can change your electric hot water heater fairly easily yourself if you have some help getting the old tank out and the new tank in but for many of the older folks here in the Villages, this is not really an option.

As far as installing appliances, I've found the installers at Lowes are very good and know what they are doing since they have dedicated techs that only work in the Villages and the surrounding local areas so they are very familiar with our homes designs. When I bought a dishwasher at Lowes they asked me which model home I had and a few questions about the kitchen layout and knew what I needed for the install such as hose lengths, etc..

We also were able to get the extended warrenty on our new appliances at a good price due to the sale and when we had a problem with the display on the microwave the process was very easy to get support and the tech replaced the defective part within a weeks time. He had to come out to see what the problem was, ordered the part then came and installed it. If the Microwave was unrepairable for whatever reason the would be obligated to replace it.

[retiredguy123]

Two years ago, I had mine replaced and licensed well known plumber in TV did not install a pan. Asked installer and he said that it was not required since it was in the garage and garage floor was lower than living area floor and if/when tank wore out it would drain onto the driveway. Do not know if code changed since that time. He did not pull a permit and I do not know if a permit was needed.
The typical water heater installation for new houses in The Villages does include a drain pan. The water heater is installed on an 18-inch high platform in the garage, so it is definitely higher than the living space. The garage floor is not below the living space floor level, except for a slight slope in the garage floor. Here is what the plumbing code says about drain pans:

"Where a storage tank-type water heater or a hot water storage tank is installed in a location where water leakage from the tank will cause damage, the tank shall be installed in a pan ..."

I think a water heater leak could cause damage in the garage because most garages have finished and painted drywall, some are enclosed in a closet, and the wood platform could also be damaged. I have not recently seen any plumber install a water heater without a drain pan, and I would not allow that type of installation in my house.

[villagetinker]

Why do water heaters in Florida homes have expansion tanks?

Because the water meter has a valve that blocks reverse flow, so when the water heater heats up the water, it expands and the pressure in the house plumbing goes up, to the point where damage could occur. The expansion tank provides a cushion of air so the pressure spikes are much lower, and as previously noted these are required by code.

On a side note, expansion tanks last 5 to 7 years, and the simple test is to tap on the tank, below the weld line it should be dull sound, above the weld line it should be more like a bell.

[Bill14564]

Because the water meter has a valve that blocks reverse flow, so when the water heater heats up the water, it expands and the pressure in the house plumbing goes up, to the point where damage could occur. The expansion tank provides a cushion of air so the pressure spikes are much lower, and as previously noted these are required by code.

On a side note, expansion tanks last 5 to 7 years, and the simple test is to tap on the tank, below the weld line it should be dull sound, above the weld line it should be more like a bell.

This is a notably different sound. If you aren't sure there is a difference then there probably isn't and the tank is probably bad.

(I spent a few weeks with a bad tank because I was convincing myself I heard a different sound. Once the problem was resolved and the tank was working properly, the difference in sound was very clear)

[photo1902]

Rather than the tapping method to tell if an expansion tank has failed, use an air pressure gauge (tire pressure gauge) on the Schrader valve located on top of the tank. If it squirts water, that's a clear sign the rubber diaphragm has failed.

[Salty Dog]

What about using a Thermal Expansion Relief Valve, if you don't have room for an expansion tank?

[Bill14564]

What about using a Thermal Expansion Relief Valve, if you don't have room for an expansion tank?

See posts #39 and #43 above.

The expansion tank is fairly small, about 9" in diameter, 15" high. Mine sits right above the water heater but I don't know if that is required though you probably want it on the heater side of any hot water shutoff valve.