Electic Vehicles poor performance in the cold weather

[coffeebean]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

[Bill14564]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

I've seen the recent articles and they sound bad. But I noticed there seems to be only two articles that get reprinted over and over. Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

The three top users of EVs in Europe are Norway, Iceland, and Sweden - not particularly temperate climates. Maybe we, either individual owners or the country as a whole, are doing it wrong.

[mtdjed]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

Not only losing their charge but not able to be charged because even the esteemed Tesla charging network couldn't get power.

Perhaps they need an ad like ASPA showing all the freezing animals that need only $19/month to save more freezing animals. Those poor freezing Teslas crowded around their defunct charging stations.

Looks like we need more global warming so the animals can live and EVs can survive.

[fdpaq0580]

Personally, I'm not planning on buying a solar powered snowcat
anytime soon.

[asianthree]

Three kids all have one EV

one in St Paul, heated garage, because it’s ST Paul, EV no issues winter or summer, second car is a Benz.

One in MI heated garage, EV lives among the 4 Rovers, no issues winter or summer

One in Louisville, EV and a Beemer, share AC garage No issues using Ev winter or summer, but AC could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. EV traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard EV users, and will replace with same.

[fdpaq0580]

Three kids all have one EV

one in St Paul, heated garage, because it’s ST Paul, EV no issues winter or summer, second car is a Benz.

One in MI heated garage, EV lives among the 4 Rovers, no issues winter or summer

One in Louisville, EV and a Beemer, share AC garage No issues using Ev winter or summer, but AC could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. EV traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard EV users, and will replace with same.

Good news! Thanx!

[Papa_lecki]

Not interested in supporting the slave labor Cobalt mining industry in the Congo to reduce carbon dioxide which is 0.04% of the earth’s atmosphere.

Soruce: Department of Energy
Carbon Dioxide 101 | netl.doe.gov (https://netl.doe.gov/coal/carbon-storage/faqs/carbon-dioxide-101)

[tophcfa]

During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.

[Bill14564]

During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.

Is there a source for that? The first four articles I found talked about the rumor about stranded EVs with depleted batteries but the reality that it had not happened. I still have not found an article that confirms the rumor.

[Papa_lecki]

Is there a source for that? The first four articles I found talked about the rumor about stranded EVs with depleted batteries but the reality that it had not happened. I still have not found an article that confirms the rumor.

Really, couldn’t find an article?

Tesla Drivers in Chicago Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-chicago-cold-weather.html)

Why Teslas and other electric vehicles have problems in cold weather — and how EV owners can prevent issues - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/)

Why EVs don’t go as far in the freezing cold | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/16/business/why-evs-dont-go-as-far-in-the-freezing-cold/index.html)

Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/01/17/tesla-battery-cold-weather-not-charging-ev-infrastructure/72256166007/)

[RPDaly]

three kids all have one ev

one in st paul, heated garage, because it’s st paul, ev no issues winter or summer, second car is a benz.

One in mi heated garage, ev lives among the 4 rovers, no issues winter or summer

one in louisville, ev and a beemer, share ac garage no issues using ev winter or summer, but ac could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. Ev traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard ev users, and will replace with same.

yawn

[Bill14564]

Really, couldn’t find an article?

Tesla Drivers in Chicago Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-chicago-cold-weather.html)

Why Teslas and other electric vehicles have problems in cold weather — and how EV owners can prevent issues - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/)

Why EVs don’t go as far in the freezing cold | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/16/business/why-evs-dont-go-as-far-in-the-freezing-cold/index.html)

Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/01/17/tesla-battery-cold-weather-not-charging-ev-infrastructure/72256166007/)

Which of those mention the EVs stranded on I95 after the Jan 2022 storm?

[mtdjed]

Which of those mention the EVs stranded on I95 after the Jan 2022 storm?

Why the need for ancient history data challenge? You certainly know that it happens just by reading the current news.

ie https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/why-don-t-tesla-cars-charge-in-cold-weather-owners-in-chicago-forced-to-abandon-cars-at-charging-stations/ar-AA1n5nRs

It does happen and owners just have to be alert. Otherwise, you get to experience problems like those in Chicago.

Just like internal combustion engines, all have some limitations that users must consider. Fuel supply, availability, reliability. That goes for ICE or EV autos. The availability issue is more acute for EVs at this time due to limited availability sources. The problem is enhanced for EVs in frigid weather or power outages. You just have to allow for it, and consider alternatives.

[dhdallas]

My permanent home is located squarely in the Lake Erie snowbelt. Our neighbor has two Teslas and never has a problem with cold weather AND both his EV's are parked & charged outside in their driveway, unprotected from the cold & snow right in the open. All you people who for whatever reason hate EV's & especially Tesla need to find something that is actually important to comment on. No one is being forced to buy an EV. You are still free to buy a gas or diesel powered vehicle.

[tophcfa]

Is there a source for that? The first four articles I found talked about the rumor about stranded EVs with depleted batteries but the reality that it had not happened. I still have not found an article that confirms the rumor.

My source is my very reliable and trustworthy neighbor who was stuck in the middle of the whole fiasco and witnessed it first hand. That’s more than good enough for me, and way better than trusting the national media’s biased reporting (or lack there of).

[MrChip72]

If they wrote a new article every time a new model of gas powered vehicle had bad issues, the newspaper would run out of room. Hilarious/sad that some people are so obsessed about cheering for EV to fail. I don't care either way but get tired of the same people trying to make a point based on a small sample size. There's 2.5 million active EV's in the US and this story is about a handful of them in a specific place. Seems more likely the charging stations need to be recalibrated than anything else.

[Topspinmo]

I've seen the recent articles and they sound bad. But I noticed there seems to be only two articles that get reprinted over and over. Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

The three top users of EVs in Europe are Norway, Iceland, and Sweden - not particularly temperate climates. Maybe we, either individual owners or the country as a whole, are doing it wrong.


No, it’s bad.

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)

It was on national news also.

[Topspinmo]

If they wrote a new article every time a new model of gas powered vehicle had bad issues, the newspaper would run out of room. Hilarious/sad that some people are so obsessed about cheering for EV to fail. I don't care either way but get tired of the same people trying to make a point based on a small sample size. There's 2.5 million active EV's in the US and this story is about a handful of them in a specific place. Seems more likely the charging stations need to be recalibrated than anything else.


Go ahead drive take trip way up north. Try find charging stations in sub zero temps. By time you get charge and heat car up you’re not going very far before be looking for charger.

[Topspinmo]

Personally, I'm not planning on buying a solar powered snowcat
anytime soon.

Just add wind generator. Give you extra 100 watts.

[Topspinmo]

Three kids all have one EV

one in St Paul, heated garage, because it’s ST Paul, EV no issues winter or summer, second car is a Benz.

One in MI heated garage, EV lives among the 4 Rovers, no issues winter or summer

One in Louisville, EV and a Beemer, share AC garage No issues using Ev winter or summer, but AC could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. EV traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard EV users, and will replace with same.


Cause they are setting in heated garage.

[Topspinmo]

Good news! Thanx!

Good news setting in garage. :oops:

[Topspinmo]

yawn

Mine has 5 MBs and 5 EVs and Lear jet. All on there 5000 acres. And have summer home with yacht. But, that’s nothing compared to…..:icon_wink:

[Topspinmo]

Is there a source for that? The first four articles I found talked about the rumor about stranded EVs with depleted batteries but the reality that it had not happened. I still have not found an article that confirms the rumor.

What computer a commodore 128? :22yikes:

[ThirdOfFive]

I have no problem with EVs. I'm considering getting one in golf cart form. They have advantages here: quiet, full "tank" every morning (assuming you remembered to plug it in), no annual tune-ups just to name three. But if I do it, I will do it because it makes sense FOR ME. I don't lie to myself about the huge favor I'm doing the environment by getting an electric golf cart. Whether I am or not is incidental to me.

But EVs, like everything else in this huge country of ours, is NOT one size fits all. Sure, a EV golf cart makes sense here. You're rarely more than 1 hour from home (unless you enjoy cruising from one end of TV to the other) and a stall or breakdown severe weather might mean an uncomfortable and sweaty hour or so wait for Cart Aid to show up. But this country is vast. A breakdown in TV in January is nothing like a January breakdown or running out of power in or around, say, Minot, ND: my son texted me from there about a week ago and they were experiencing 55 below zero windchill. You run out of power down here and you're frustrated, angry and impatient because help is taking its time in arriving. You run out of power up there, especially on the vast empty swaths of country so common up there and if you're not knowledgeable about how to handle severe cold; and unless someone shows up right quick, you're dead. If anyone reading this has experienced a 55 below windchill you know exactly what I mean. Also those mileage estimates are usually best-case. Severe cold can cause a significant (often drastic) decrease in mileage, but so can things like driving in mountains, air conditioning, excessive heater use, even speed: most folks probably don't think of that but driving at excessive speeds means that the electric motor in your EV is running less efficiently, thus cutting down on range.

Again, EVs make sense. For some people. In some situations. But they are NOT a panacea, nor are they anything even close to one size fits all.

[mickey100]

If they wrote a new article every time a new model of gas powered vehicle had bad issues, the newspaper would run out of room. Hilarious/sad that some people are so obsessed about cheering for EV to fail. I don't care either way but get tired of the same people trying to make a point based on a small sample size. There's 2.5 million active EV's in the US and this story is about a handful of them in a specific place. Seems more likely the charging stations need to be recalibrated than anything else.

Agree. I really don't get this obsession with dissing EV's. It's like these people feel sooo threatened. Maybe it's because it represents change, something different than what they grew up with and they hate change of any kind? Or is it because the gasoline industry pays for PR to stigmatize alternate energy sources and people choose to believe these pundits - unreliable sources that basically spew garbage? Or is it because some people somehow equate EV's with climate change, and again, disregarding science, they are climate change deniers? Whatever the reason, these people are haters and have an agenda. Good luck with that, EV's are here to stay, which shouldn't be a problem. You can still have your gasoline powered car, there is no reason the two can't co-exist. Enough already.

[dsgreen3]

Agree. I really don't get this obsession with dissing EV's. It's like these people feel sooo threatened. Maybe it's because it represents change, something different than what they grew up with and they hate change of any kind? Or is it because the gasoline industry pays for PR to stigmatize alternate energy sources and people choose to believe these pundits - unreliable sources that basically spew garbage? Or is it because some people somehow equate EV's with climate change, and again, disregarding science, they are climate change deniers? Whatever the reason, these people are haters and have an agenda. Good luck with that, EV's are here to stay, which shouldn't be a problem. You can still have your gasoline powered car, there is no reason the two can't co-exist. Enough already.

No more new gas small engine sales in California 2024, no more new gas cars in California, and New York 2035. So you can see there is mandates that are eliminating our choices and making it harder for people to co-exist.

[Bill14564]

No, it’s bad.

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)

It was on national news also.

What for for computer commodore 128? :22yikes:

The two claims were the large number of recent reports of EV problems in Chicago and "Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries. "

- I noted that while there were a large number of reports, including the link you provided, they all appear to be based on two unique reports. Rather than going out and finding the problem for themselves, most (all?) of the stories today are just regurgitating those two reports. So, as I asked in post #2: Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

- As for "all the EV's that got stranded," I still cannot find one article to support that assertion. There likely were EV's stuck in the traffic jam, right next to the ICE vehicles. There may have been EV's that ran out of charge, right next to the ICE vehicles that ran out of gas. There may have been abandoned EV's that needed to be towed, just as there were ICE vehicles that needed to be towed. But what I cannot find is any confirmation of "all the EV's that got stranded" due to "depleted batteries."

Do EVs get less mileage out of a charge in the cold weather? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run as well in the cold weather as they do in the warm weather? No, their gas mileage goes down too. Are EVs more impacted than ICE vehicles? Possibly, but I haven't seen any data to show one way or another.

Are there stories of EVs having problems getting a spot to charge in Chicago in the cold weather this month? Absolutely. Is it better to have an ICE vehicle in Chicago this month? It sort of looks that way based on only those two articles. But does anyone remember trying to get gas during the early part of COVID, during the pipeline issue in spring 2021, or during the last two hurricanes forecast for Florida? During those times it would have been much better to have an EV.

[asianthree]

Cause they are setting in heated garage.

You realize people own cars to drive them. All three drive in the same conditions, work 12-24 hour shifts, and none have changing stations. As stated they also can make multiple trips within a few hours, almost always in the crap zero and below weather. Cars live outside of cozy garage much more than in. Soooooooooooo

[thelegges]

yawn
Sometimes you realize you have zero knowledge or any input so a four letter word is the best you can use. Great info. Maybe next time you can find a 4 letter word and add a 3 letter to make post more interesting

[mickey100]

No more new gas small engine sales in California 2024, no more new gas cars in California, and New York 2035. So you can see there is mandates that are eliminating our choices and making it harder for people to co-exist.

You will still be able to drive gasoline cars in California and NY. The law is that all NEW vehicle sales will be zero emission vehicles.

[Byte1]

EV haters??? Is that anything like calling someone a "racist" because they don't agree with you?
EVs predate the 1900's and have yet to compete with ICE vehicles. I say, yet. Great concept, but so far they are not quite ready for competition with ICE vehicles. Great novelty, though.
So far, almost everyone posting FOR EVs on here, has made excuses for the negatives still attached to the EVs. I think that the most significant negative related to owning an EV is fueling it. Compare that with fueling ICE vehicles. If you run out of fuel on the road with an ICE vehicle, a can of gas will likely get you to a gas station which will take five minutes to fill it up. An EV runs out of charge on the road, what do they do? When they do get to a charging station, how long must you sit in freezing or sweltering heat while it charges? If someone is at the charging station before you, how long does that delay your journey? How much does an EV cost vs. an ICE vehicle? How much does it cost to change out depleted batteries vs. the cost of changing out a worn out ICE motor?
EVs are fine for short commuting, and that is why small countries can brag about how great they are. Small countries also have a better mass transit system than the U.S. We are a large country and we have to think on a larger scale than most European countries. EV's have been around since the 1800's and still have a way to go before actually a viable option to replace the ICE.
But EV's are a really neat novelty. It's nice that the wealthy can afford the luxury. Proponents of the EV keep repeating the mantra that "no one is forcing you to purchase an EV." Maybe not now, but some states (as well as some folks in D.C.) are attempting to cut out production of ICE vehicles. Kind of like saying "no one is going to take away your guns" all while restrictions are put on gun ammo and banning lead projectiles in ammo. Before pushing ICE out and bringing EV's to prime time, someone needs to consider EV compatible infrastructure. Kind of like laying RR tracks down before selling tickets to travel by train.
Not an EV hater, just being pragmatic.

[Aces4]

Agree. I really don't get this obsession with dissing EV's. It's like these people feel sooo threatened. Maybe it's because it represents change, something different than what they grew up with and they hate change of any kind? Or is it because the gasoline industry pays for PR to stigmatize alternate energy sources and people choose to believe these pundits - unreliable sources that basically spew garbage? Or is it because some people somehow equate EV's with climate change, and again, disregarding science, they are climate change deniers? Whatever the reason, these people are haters and have an agenda. Good luck with that, EV's are here to stay, which shouldn't be a problem. You can still have your gasoline powered car, there is no reason the two can't co-exist. Enough already.


Probably, at this point, because EV's cause more problems than they solve. People, with all different dynamics and situations in their lives, need a fully vetted EV plan to fully embrace the EV philosophy. No one has time or money for more missteps in this country.

Norway was lauded in an earlier post with it's number of EV's but that is not what it seems, apparently. Do an online search on why Norway, poster child for EV's is having second thoughts about EV's. It's not as simple as everyone running out and buying an EV.

I believe that in the long run it will be determined that EV's and what they require did far more harm to the environment than the combustion engine.

Fusion energy may be the answer with 2050 as the goal for automobile use. Seems like a long time away but 25 years pass quickly, ask any old person.:shocked:

[Topspinmo]

The two claims were the large number of recent reports of EV problems in Chicago and "Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries. "

- I noted that while there were a large number of reports, including the link you provided, they all appear to be based on two unique reports. Rather than going out and finding the problem for themselves, most (all?) of the stories today are just regurgitating those two reports. So, as I asked in post #2: Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

- As for "all the EV's that got stranded," I still cannot find one article to support that assertion. There likely were EV's stuck in the traffic jam, right next to the ICE vehicles. There may have been EV's that ran out of charge, right next to the ICE vehicles that ran out of gas. There may have been abandoned EV's that needed to be towed, just as there were ICE vehicles that needed to be towed. But what I cannot find is any confirmation of "all the EV's that got stranded" due to "depleted batteries."

Do EVs get less mileage out of a charge in the cold weather? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run as well in the cold weather as they do in the warm weather? No, their gas mileage goes down too. Are EVs more impacted than ICE vehicles? Possibly, but I haven't seen any data to show one way or another.

Are there stories of EVs having problems getting a spot to charge in Chicago in the cold weather this month? Absolutely. Is it better to have an ICE vehicle in Chicago this month? It sort of looks that way based on only those two articles. But does anyone remember trying to get gas during the early part of COVID, during the pipeline issue in spring 2021, or during the last two hurricanes forecast for Florida? During those times it would have been much better to have an EV.

Sure it better if only have go 10 or 15 miles with heater on and you don’t get hung up in traffic.

Guess what wind farm wind turbines do in sub zero weather? They don’t turn.

[Topspinmo]

Probably, at this point, because EV's cause more problems than they solve. People, with all different dynamics and situations in their lives, need a fully vetted EV plan to fully embrace the EV philosophy. No one has time or money for more missteps in this country.

Norway was lauded in an earlier post with it's number of EV's but that is not what it seems, apparently. Do an online search on why Norway, poster child for EV's is having second thoughts about EV's. It's not as simple as everyone running out and buying an EV.

I believe that in the long run it will be determined that EV's and what they require did far more harm to the environment than the combustion engine.

Fusion energy may be the answer with 2050 as the goal for automobile use. Seems like a long time away but 25 years pass quickly, ask any old person.:shocked:


EVs are still in model T phase hasn’t improved since 1900 just made more fancy. Now in 50 years they may have something? But, hydrogen will probably be the next break through and make ICE and EVs obsolete.

[Topspinmo]

No more new gas small engine sales in California 2024, no more new gas cars in California, and New York 2035. So you can see there is mandates that are eliminating our choices and making it harder for people to co-exist.

I wonder why people are moving out of Cala?

[Bill14564]

Sure it better if only have go 10 or 15 miles with heater on and you don’t get hung up in traffic.
But many drive more than 10 or 15 miles and have the heater on and handle the traffic quite well. Two articles out of Chicago are worth paying attention to but there would be many more articles if the situation was truly that bad.

Guess what wind farm wind turbines do in sub zero weather? They don’t turn.

Below are three articles saying there was no problem with the wind turbines in TX this year and another saying that lack of winterization (poor planning) was the problem in 2021. Guess what wind farm wind turbines sub zero weather: They produce electricity.
How Texas Kept the Lights On in the Recent Deep Freeze - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/climate/texas-grid-renewables-gas-freeze.html)
How the Texas grid held strong amid freeze and fears of blackout (https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-grid-held-strong-amid-213636736.html)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/3-lessons-learned-from-the-texas-electric-grid-powering-through-the-2024-freeze/ar-AA1n7e4n
Why Did Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas When They Work in the Arctic? (https://www.newsweek.com/texas-wind-turbines-frozen-power-why-arctic-1570173)

[mtdjed]

Good news for EV lovers. Bargains available from Hertz.

Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/)

[Blackie]

The two claims were the large number of recent reports of EV problems in Chicago and "Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries. "

- I noted that while there were a large number of reports, including the link you provided, they all appear to be based on two unique reports. Rather than going out and finding the problem for themselves, most (all?) of the stories today are just regurgitating those two reports. So, as I asked in post #2: Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

- As for "all the EV's that got stranded," I still cannot find one article to support that assertion. There likely were EV's stuck in the traffic jam, right next to the ICE vehicles. There may have been EV's that ran out of charge, right next to the ICE vehicles that ran out of gas. There may have been abandoned EV's that needed to be towed, just as there were ICE vehicles that needed to be towed. But what I cannot find is any confirmation of "all the EV's that got stranded" due to "depleted batteries."

Do EVs get less mileage out of a charge in the cold weather? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run as well in the cold weather as they do in the warm weather? No, their gas mileage goes down too. Are EVs more impacted than ICE vehicles? Possibly, but I haven't seen any data to show one way or another.

Are there stories of EVs having problems getting a spot to charge in Chicago in the cold weather this month? Absolutely. Is it better to have an ICE vehicle in Chicago this month? It sort of looks that way based on only those two articles. But does anyone remember trying to get gas during the early part of COVID, during the pipeline issue in spring 2021, or during the last two hurricanes forecast for Florida? During those times it would have been much better to have an EV.

Here is an article on the January 2022 I95 storm issue.

Tesla Model 3 Owner Thankful For His EV When Stuck On I-95 (https://insideevs.com/news/560870/tesla-model3/)

Here is the authors blog of the same incident.

“I'''m Grateful That I Was Driving My EV When I Got Stuck On I-95” - ZETA (https://www.zeta2030.org/insights/im-grateful-that-i-was-driving-my-ev-when-i-got-stuck-on-i-95)

[Jim 9922]

During the recent "deep freeze" I heard about a probable Chicago Area survey statistic: "95% of electric cars are still on the road. The remaining 5% made it home." :popcorn:

[Byte1]

During the recent "deep freeze" I heard about a probable Chicago Area survey statistic: "95% of electric cars are still on the road. The remaining 5% made it home." :popcorn:

>>>>>> :a20::1rotfl::clap2:

[tophcfa]

Here is an article on the January 2022 I95 storm issue.

Tesla Model 3 Owner Thankful For His EV When Stuck On I-95 (https://insideevs.com/news/560870/tesla-model3/)
]

From a publication titled InsideEV’s. Talk about a source with an agenda.

[Topspinmo]

But many drive more than 10 or 15 miles and have the heater on and handle the traffic quite well. Two articles out of Chicago are worth paying attention to but there would be many more articles if the situation was truly that bad.



Below are three articles saying there was no problem with the wind turbines in TX this year and another saying that lack of winterization (poor planning) was the problem in 2021. Guess what wind farm wind turbines sub zero weather: They produce electricity.
How Texas Kept the Lights On in the Recent Deep Freeze - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/climate/texas-grid-renewables-gas-freeze.html)
How the Texas grid held strong amid freeze and fears of blackout (https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-grid-held-strong-amid-213636736.html)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/3-lessons-learned-from-the-texas-electric-grid-powering-through-the-2024-freeze/ar-AA1n7e4n
Why Did Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas When They Work in the Arctic? (https://www.newsweek.com/texas-wind-turbines-frozen-power-why-arctic-1570173)


If don’t get cold in Texas like it does in Wyoming.

[Bill14564]

From a publication titled InsideEV’s. Talk about a source with an agenda.

The source is the actual owner of the EV who was sitting in the backup. The publication is an EV publication but where did you expect to find an article about an EV, Pickleball Weekly?

[Topspinmo]

Good news for EV lovers. Bargains available from Hertz.

Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/)


Pretty bad when hertz gives up on them. Maybe cause the were sending them out not charged up and customers had enough having to look for charger after few miles wasting hours waiting to get to there destinations. :D

[Topspinmo]

The source is the actual owner of the EV who was sitting in the backup. The publication is an EV publication but where did you expect to find an article about an EV, Pickleball Weekly?

So what saying they only talk bout the pros and not the cons?

[Topspinmo]

But many drive more than 10 or 15 miles and have the heater on and handle the traffic quite well. Two articles out of Chicago are worth paying attention to but there would be many more articles if the situation was truly that bad.



Below are three articles saying there was no problem with the wind turbines in TX this year and another saying that lack of winterization (poor planning) was the problem in 2021. Guess what wind farm wind turbines sub zero weather: They produce electricity.
How Texas Kept the Lights On in the Recent Deep Freeze - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/climate/texas-grid-renewables-gas-freeze.html)
How the Texas grid held strong amid freeze and fears of blackout (https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-grid-held-strong-amid-213636736.html)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/3-lessons-learned-from-the-texas-electric-grid-powering-through-the-2024-freeze/ar-AA1n7e4n
Why Did Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas When They Work in the Arctic? (https://www.newsweek.com/texas-wind-turbines-frozen-power-why-arctic-1570173)


https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/ev-batteries-junked-instead-of-recycled

Low milage EVs writing off by insurance.

[biker1]

Huh? What Hertz actually announced was a 1/3 reduction in the EV fleet. That means they are keeping 2/3 of their EV fleet. You can google this stuff instead of making bogus assumptions from headlines. Rental car companies adjust their fleets on a nearly continuous basis.

Pretty bad when hertz gives up on them. Maybe cause the were sending them out not charged up and customers had enough having to look for charger after few miles wasting hours waiting to get to there destinations. :D

[Bill14564]

So what saying they only talk bout the pros and not the cons?

Just like some on this board only talk about the cons and not the pros. One difference is they use first-hand reports rather than rumor and propaganda and speculation.

Point to some articles that talk about all the EVs being towed during that particular event.

Point to some articles about wind farms going offline due to cold weather.

[ThirdOfFive]

Go ahead drive take trip way up north. Try find charging stations in sub zero temps. By time you get charge and heat car up you’re not going very far before be looking for charger.
All true. But it is a but more complicated than that. What a lot of people don't realize is that, in extreme cold, things happen to an EV that makes powering them back up a whole lot more complicated than doing it in, say, balmy Florida temps.

For one thing, batteries just don't charge as well in the cold. That goes for ALL batteries, not just EV batteries. But lead-acid batteries, even if nearly depleted, can still take a charge when cold. Not as much as if they were warm, but enough to get you up and going. EV batteries won't. They have to be preconditioned in extremely cold weather before they'll take on more charge. If the driver doesn't precondition them before getting to the charging station, the driver has to wait for a half-hour, give or take, for the station charger to warm up the battery to the point where it WILL take a charge, and even then the charging process may take much longer than normal. Sitting at a station for an hour and a half getting a charge, with a line of folks behind you getting progressively more irritated, is a whole lot different than swinging into a gas station off the freeway and fueling up the Family Truckster with about 20 gallons of gasoline.

EVs are a reasonable option in Florida. Up north, they're far more trouble than they're worth.

[asianthree]

All true. But it is a but more complicated than that. What a lot of people don't realize is that, in extreme cold, things happen to an EV that makes powering them back up a whole lot more complicated than doing it in, say, balmy Florida temps.

For one thing, batteries just don't charge as well in the cold. That goes for ALL batteries, not just EV batteries. But lead-acid batteries, even if nearly depleted, can still take a charge when cold. Not as much as if they were warm, but enough to get you up and going. EV batteries won't. They have to be preconditioned in extremely cold weather before they'll take on more charge. If the driver doesn't precondition them before getting to the charging station, the driver has to wait for a half-hour, give or take, for the station charger to warm up the battery to the point where it WILL take a charge, and even then the charging process may take much longer than normal. Sitting at a station for an hour and a half getting a charge, with a line of folks behind you getting progressively more irritated, is a whole lot different than swinging into a gas station off the freeway and fueling up the Family Truckster with about 20 gallons of gasoline.

EVs are a reasonable option in Florida. Up north, they're far more trouble than they're worth.

Our car dealer strongly suggests AC garages, because heat in FL effects battery life. Even at purchase of something as inexpensive as our electric mower, we were warned not to leave batteries in the FL garage. Charge and store in climate control house.or battery life will be half. So not sure about EV auto in heat, only have experience in cold. So far our family have traded in before batteries were in need of replacement.

We are swapping kids EV for our 7 person suv for the summer will see how TV heat effects the EV batteries.

[coffeebean]

Agree. I really don't get this obsession with dissing EV's. It's like these people feel sooo threatened. Maybe it's because it represents change, something different than what they grew up with and they hate change of any kind? Or is it because the gasoline industry pays for PR to stigmatize alternate energy sources and people choose to believe these pundits - unreliable sources that basically spew garbage? Or is it because some people somehow equate EV's with climate change, and again, disregarding science, they are climate change deniers? Whatever the reason, these people are haters and have an agenda. Good luck with that, EV's are here to stay, which shouldn't be a problem. You can still have your gasoline powered car, there is no reason the two can't co-exist. Enough already.

I started this thread and was genuinely surprised to find out that EVs have a difficult time in cold weather. I guess I've been living under a rock because I had never heard of that before. I saw a segment on the news and that was the first time I found out the problems with EVs with weather extremes.

As an aside, I have an electric golf cart and I love it.

[coffeebean]

The two claims were the large number of recent reports of EV problems in Chicago and "Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries. "

- I noted that while there were a large number of reports, including the link you provided, they all appear to be based on two unique reports. Rather than going out and finding the problem for themselves, most (all?) of the stories today are just regurgitating those two reports. So, as I asked in post #2: Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

- As for "all the EV's that got stranded," I still cannot find one article to support that assertion. There likely were EV's stuck in the traffic jam, right next to the ICE vehicles. There may have been EV's that ran out of charge, right next to the ICE vehicles that ran out of gas. There may have been abandoned EV's that needed to be towed, just as there were ICE vehicles that needed to be towed. But what I cannot find is any confirmation of "all the EV's that got stranded" due to "depleted batteries."

Do EVs get less mileage out of a charge in the cold weather? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run as well in the cold weather as they do in the warm weather? No, their gas mileage goes down too. Are EVs more impacted than ICE vehicles? Possibly, but I haven't seen any data to show one way or another.

Are there stories of EVs having problems getting a spot to charge in Chicago in the cold weather this month? Absolutely. Is it better to have an ICE vehicle in Chicago this month? It sort of looks that way based on only those two articles. But does anyone remember trying to get gas during the early part of COVID, during the pipeline issue in spring 2021, or during the last two hurricanes forecast for Florida? During those times it would have been much better to have an EV.

I had no idea what an ICE vehicle was. I Googled it. I learn so much by reading this forum.

[coffeebean]

During the recent "deep freeze" I heard about a probable Chicago Area survey statistic: "95% of electric cars are still on the road. The remaining 5% made it home." :popcorn:

That is too funny. Good one!

[Topspinmo]

Just like some on this board only talk about the cons and not the pros. One difference is they use first-hand reports rather than rumor and propaganda and speculation.

Point to some articles that talk about all the EVs being towed during that particular event.

Point to some articles about wind farms going offline due to cold weather.


https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/ev-batteries-junked-instead-of-recycled

[Topspinmo]

I had no idea what an ICE vehicle was. I Googled it. I learn so much by reading this forum.


Internal combustion engine. You know like 95% on road.

[mtdjed]

Recently flew to San Diego and toured north to Capistrano, Laguna Beach and then to Palm Springs, La Quinta and Salton Sea. Rented a car from Hertz with option for EV vs ICE. Chose ICE because not familiar with EV and did not want to have to plan for charging. As it was, there were no charging stations at the hotels we booked. Much of our touring was in rural areas in the desert and around the Salton Sea. Stopped for fuel twice before flying back from Palm Springs airport. Great trip. EV may have worked but didn't need to include the new learning experience.

Nearing 80 and owning two ICE vehicles (one with 30K miles) averaging 35 MPG on trips, I quite frankly don't see a need for a new car, but if I did buy, it would likely be a HYBrid, avoiding premium for EV models.

Only point is that the EV market is not attractive to me and I suspect others.

I'll let the Jetsons work on the EV learning experience.

[Southwest737]

[QUOTE=tophcfa;2292300]During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.[/QUOTE

Fake news

[ithos]

But many drive more than 10 or 15 miles and have the heater on and handle the traffic quite well. Two articles out of Chicago are worth paying attention to but there would be many more articles if the situation was truly that bad.



Below are three articles saying there was no problem with the wind turbines in TX this year and another saying that lack of winterization (poor planning) was the problem in 2021. Guess what wind farm wind turbines sub zero weather: They produce electricity.
How Texas Kept the Lights On in the Recent Deep Freeze - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/climate/texas-grid-renewables-gas-freeze.html)
How the Texas grid held strong amid freeze and fears of blackout (https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-grid-held-strong-amid-213636736.html)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/3-lessons-learned-from-the-texas-electric-grid-powering-through-the-2024-freeze/ar-AA1n7e4n
Why Did Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas When They Work in the Arctic? (https://www.newsweek.com/texas-wind-turbines-frozen-power-why-arctic-1570173)

Wind power is not reliable which is why you need idle generating stations in standby which significantly raises the costs of electricity.

[skippy05]

I've owned and got rid of 2 EVs. These cold weather issues are real. In cold they also won't accept a charge. In cold the displayed available range read out is wrong. In cold the burn down rate of range is 3x normal. Insane worrisome cars.

[ROCKETMAN]

I think the notion that by 2033 all vehicles sold must be ev.wont happen. Even if it does even going out to 2040, half of vehicles around will still be gas given many people keep their cars for 10 years

[Gracelane]

We have an EV and it’s perfect for staying close to home but driving a couple hours from home I don’t like because of EV charger scarcity. Went to St Augustine over Christmas and finding a working, available charger was not fun. Then it slow charged and it was really relatively cold out and dark while I was trying to figure out using a different type of charger that charged by the minutes. I think the best car is a hybrid that recharges itself when you drive it. I rented a hybrid in Colorado from Denver to Boulder and only spent $9.61 for gas the 2 days I was there. Our EV does regenerative breaking but not like a hybrid recharges itself. When our lease is up, Definitely want to switch. First world problems, whatever! Lol

[Southwest737]

1) Norway Is the Only Country Where the Majority of Car Sales are All-Electric

Norway is one of the coldest regions in the world and is crisscrossed by fjords that make some areas difficult to access. Given concerns that EV batteries don’t run effectively in low temperatures and don’t have as long a range as gasoline vehicles, one would expect that Norway would be one of the last regions to adopt EVs. To the contrary, Norway and its Scandinavian neighbors such as Iceland and Sweden are far and away the leaders in EV adoption. Eight out of 10 passenger car sales in Norway were all-electric vehicles in 2022, with 150,000 sold in total.

[Gracelane]

Huh? What Hertz actually announced was a 1/3 reduction in the EV fleet. That means they are keeping 2/3 of their EV fleet. You can google this stuff instead of making bogus assumptions from headlines. Rental car companies adjust their fleets on a nearly continuous basis.
Yes! This^^^ Rented a “Manager’s surprise vehicle” but if I ever see that “Manager”, Grrr! It was a little Polestar and probably fine in its own backyard but Not in a rental car company where it travels miles on miles then needs an unoccupied, working generic car charger before returning to the airport car rental. I Hated it! There was a Very sweet couple next to me to help me figure out how to charge this car. NOT Intuitive at all! And took about 3 hours in the 100 plus degree weather because I sat there with the A/C on because every 15 or so minutes you have to restart the charging process all over again from hanging up the charger on its hook to swiping your card all over again…first world problems…we’re blessed regardless! (Another thread could be “Is irregardless a word?? Isn’t that a double negative?”)

[Gracelane]

Our car dealer strongly suggests AC garages, because heat in FL effects battery life. Even at purchase of something as inexpensive as our electric mower, we were warned not to leave batteries in the FL garage. Charge and store in climate control house.or battery life will be half. So not sure about EV auto in heat, only have experience in cold. So far our family have traded in before batteries were in need of replacement.

We are swapping kids EV for our 7 person suv for the summer will see how TV heat effects the EV batteries.

Makes total sense. In Texas, our batteries wore out fast but in Las Vegas, the heat just sucked them up through a sippy straw. Once, and the last time that happened was on a highway off ramp in 108 degrees in a gas car. Literally Uncool. Car went dead! It was old-2006 til 2019 RIP

[Mrmean58]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

Old news. This issue came to light last year during the winter storms.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.


Stranded gas burners too. To have heat in a gas powered, you have to run the engine and consume fuel. In both cases, I imagine quite a few drivers entered the fray low on fuel. Having said that might make me sound like an EV advocate. Nope. My will will specify that my hearse must be V8 powered Detroit steel.

[Byte1]

1) Norway Is the Only Country Where the Majority of Car Sales are All-Electric

Norway is one of the coldest regions in the world and is crisscrossed by fjords that make some areas difficult to access. Given concerns that EV batteries don’t run effectively in low temperatures and don’t have as long a range as gasoline vehicles, one would expect that Norway would be one of the last regions to adopt EVs. To the contrary, Norway and its Scandinavian neighbors such as Iceland and Sweden are far and away the leaders in EV adoption. Eight out of 10 passenger car sales in Norway were all-electric vehicles in 2022, with 150,000 sold in total.

Norway is NOT even 4% the size of the U.S. Norway is finding out that their push for EVs has been somewhat of a disaster, because what they really want is a reduction in cars on the road. Something like 2% of the country's budget is going to subsidies for those purchasing EVs which has turned out to be a redistribution of tax revenues to the rich, because they are the only ones that can afford them in Norway.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. In this case, the other side of the ocean. Remember, the U.S. is about 30 times larger than Norway. Size does matter...:icon_wink:

[Janie123]

I've seen the recent articles and they sound bad. But I noticed there seems to be only two articles that get reprinted over and over. Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

The three top users of EVs in Europe are Norway, Iceland, and Sweden - not particularly temperate climates. Maybe we, either individual owners or the country as a whole, are doing it wrong.
Norway is rethinking about EVs as more and more low income households cannot afford a car and tax subsidies are going to the higher income households that are buying more cars per household than before 2010 when the big push started. Also cities like Oslo although in the north have temperate climates unlike -20 deg in the US Midwest. Average temps in Oslo is around freezing in January.

Why Norway is rethinking its reliance on electric cars - Vox (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo)

[Blackbird45]

Look I believe the EVs are in our future, are their problems with them at the moment you bet there is, but million if not billions are being spent to correct them.
As far as batteries losing the capacity of holding a charge in cold weather, the media has been all over this for years.
If you bought an EV and were unaware this was an issue, your only mode of transportation should be a bicycle.

[Marine1974]

Three kids all have one EV

one in St Paul, heated garage, because it’s ST Paul, EV no issues winter or summer, second car is a Benz.

One in MI heated garage, EV lives among the 4 Rovers, no issues winter or

One in Louisville, EV and a Beemer, share AC garage No issues using Ev winter or summer, but AC could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. EV traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard EV users, and will replace with same.
I guess my question is what do they do with the EV batteries when they outlived their life span , landfills? And how long do the average EV batteries last ?
You are not refuting the problems with charging stations not operating in the very cold weather in Chicago are you ?

[ThirdOfFive]

I guess my question is what do they do with the EV batteries when they outlived their life span , landfills? And how long do the average EV batteries last ?
You are not refuting the problems with charging stations not operating in the very cold weather in Chicago are you ?
I can't remember the source but a few weeks back I recall reading that the "leftovers" from a dead EV battery negatively affect the environment for something like 100 years or so after the battery itself wears out. Can't remember the specifics though...

[iafriedman]

[QUOTE=coffeebean;2292285]Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal

We don't live in cold weather. The weather here is perfect for Electric Vehicles

[Bill14564]

Norway is rethinking about EVs as more and more low income households cannot afford a car and tax subsidies are going to the higher income households that are buying more cars per household than before 2010 when the big push started. Also cities like Oslo although in the north have temperate climates unlike -20 deg in the US Midwest. Average temps in Oslo is around freezing in January.

Why Norway is rethinking its reliance on electric cars - Vox (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo)

I read that article - the only one I could find with anything negative to say about the Norway experience.

Norway's govt appears to be rethinking EVs due to their overwhelming success. Because EVs are so popular, people are buying cars rather than using public transportation. Since Norway's official plan now seems to be to get its people out of cars and onto bikes or public transportation, the very successful switch to EVs has become a problem. To me, this says more about the govt of Norway than about the viability of EVs.

As for temperature - to me, the jury is still out. The temps in Oslo are fairly temperate? The temps in the top 20 largest cities in the US, including Chicago, are no less temperate. If EVs successfully handle the weather in Oslo then they should also successfully handle the weather in those 20 cities.

[Topspinmo]

1) Norway Is the Only Country Where the Majority of Car Sales are All-Electric

Norway is one of the coldest regions in the world and is crisscrossed by fjords that make some areas difficult to access. Given concerns that EV batteries don’t run effectively in low temperatures and don’t have as long a range as gasoline vehicles, one would expect that Norway would be one of the last regions to adopt EVs. To the contrary, Norway and its Scandinavian neighbors such as Iceland and Sweden are far and away the leaders in EV adoption. Eight out of 10 passenger car sales in Norway were all-electric vehicles in 2022, with 150,000 sold in total.


They don’t have to drive that far.

[Topspinmo]

[QUOTE=coffeebean;2292285]Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal

We don't live in cold weather. The weather here is perfect for Electric Vehicles


We aren’t the majority of population.

[Topspinmo]

Stranded gas burners too. To have heat in a gas powered, you have to run the engine and consume fuel. In both cases, I imagine quite a few drivers entered the fray low on fuel. Having said that might make me sound like an EV advocate. Nope. My will will specify that my hearse must be V8 powered Detroit steel.


But, only takes 5 mins. To refuel in heat or cold.

[Topspinmo]

[QUOTE=tophcfa;2292300]During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.[/QUOTE

Fake news

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)


No it’s true.

[Dusty_Star]

1) Norway Is the Only Country Where the Majority of Car Sales are All-Electric

Norway is one of the coldest regions in the world and is crisscrossed by fjords that make some areas difficult to access. Given concerns that EV batteries don’t run effectively in low temperatures and don’t have as long a range as gasoline vehicles, one would expect that Norway would be one of the last regions to adopt EVs. To the contrary, Norway and its Scandinavian neighbors such as Iceland and Sweden are far and away the leaders in EV adoption. Eight out of 10 passenger car sales in Norway were all-electric vehicles in 2022, with 150,000 sold in total.

Due to huge Norwegian government subsidies, no sales tax on an EV (can be around $27,000), no tolls, free parking, free ferry rides over the fjords. This has been taken advantage of by wealthy people in the cities. Norway is now retrenching, at the least because the policies have been severly criticized for expanding income inequality, but also because the EVs are not affecting climate change & the mining for minerals is so harmful. Like here, EVs are currently a rich man's car.

[ron32162]

WOW is it called blowing one's own Trumpet or sing one's one praises?

[Topspinmo]

WOW is it called blowing one's own Trumpet or sing one's one praises?


So which one’s are doing? Can’t set on fence, got jump sooner or later? :D

[waterflower]

Research the vehicles catching fire. Not good from the mining to energy used to charge.

[Nellmack]

Not only losing their charge but not able to be charged because even the esteemed Tesla charging network couldn't get power.

Perhaps they need an ad like ASPA showing all the freezing animals that need only $19/month to save more freezing animals. Those poor freezing Teslas crowded around their defunct charging stations.

Looks like we need more global warming so the animals can live and EVs can survive.

If you don't like Tesla, fine but don't make up lies while basing them. There's nothing wrong with Tesla's charging network, I've never had any problems in the 9 years I've driven my car.

Ps: yes, electric vehicles have slightly less range in the cold but I love the convenience of turning on my electric heat and heated seats and heated steering wheel 3 minutes before I enter my car when it's 15 degrees outside. Nice & toasty when I get in. One of the benefits of an EV that you can't do in an ICE car. :)
Pss: I respect that EVs won't work for some people and some people don't like change but for the life of me I don't understand the bashing?

[dsgreen3]

You will still be able to drive gasoline cars in California and NY. The law is that all NEW vehicle sales will be zero emission vehicles.

Yes, but for how long. Most of the hate towards EV's is due to the mandates, certain groups of people want to limit others choices. If EV's made sense for everyone then the market would sort this out. No one should have to defend their choice as long as they have one!

[ThirdOfFive]

If you don't like Tesla, fine but don't make up lies while basing them. There's nothing wrong with Tesla's charging network, I've never had any problems in the 9 years I've driven my car.

Ps: yes, electric vehicles have slightly less range in the cold but I love the convenience of turning on my electric heat and heated seats and heated steering wheel 3 minutes before I enter my car when it's 15 degrees outside. Nice & toasty when I get in. One of the benefits of an EV that you can't do in an ICE car. :)
Pss: I respect that EVs won't work for some people and some people don't like change but for the life of me I don't understand the bashing?
Bashing? Merely pointing out disadvantages is only "bashing" if you're married to your point of view. Every coin has two sides.

The majority of posts here seem to recognize that EVs make more or less sense depending on one's location and circumstances. But what is mostly unspoken, though at times implied) is the fear that we as a nation will be forced into accepting EVs over ICE vehicles even though economically in many (most?) instances such a move would pose a hardship for many, many of which have been pointed out here, as has been the case in other nations.

[Aces4]

If you don't like Tesla, fine but don't make up lies while basing them. There's nothing wrong with Tesla's charging network, I've never had any problems in the 9 years I've driven my car.

Ps: yes, electric vehicles have slightly less range in the cold but I love the convenience of turning on my electric heat and heated seats and heated steering wheel 3 minutes before I enter my car when it's 15 degrees outside. Nice & toasty when I get in. One of the benefits of an EV that you can't do in an ICE car. :)
Pss: I respect that EVs won't work for some people and some people don't like change but for the life of me I don't understand the bashing?

Talk about bashing.. you do realize you can now buy ICE vehicles with remote starts for preheating and you don’t even have to crawl into a cold vehicle to warm it. And you haven’t used up a quarter of your mileage heating it prior to driving. I’ll take four minutes for filling my tank at a gas station vs the long wait to recharge. To each their own.

[jimjamuser]

Three kids all have one EV

one in St Paul, heated garage, because it’s ST Paul, EV no issues winter or summer, second car is a Benz.

One in MI heated garage, EV lives among the 4 Rovers, no issues winter or summer

One in Louisville, EV and a Beemer, share AC garage No issues using Ev winter or summer, but AC could extend batteries.

All drive less than 10 miles to work, but may return multiple times in 24 hour. EV traded in before batteries need replacement. But they are diehard EV users, and will replace with same.
There is a story in Newsbreak today about the reliability of EVs versus ICE vehicles in the winter in Norway. Norway has the MOST EVs in Europe with 24% of all vehicles. Norway's statistics show that the internal combustion engine vehicles break down MORE often in cold weather than EVs.
...........Now obviously the people in Norway have more experience with EVs than the US, which has only about 7% of new car sales being EVs. Norway probably has more charging stations than the US. And the article did NOT say which MAKE of automobile was popular in Norway. Maybe there are a lot of Volvos and Mercedes in Norway and they have some special strong design features set up for cold weather.
..........But, people in the US need to realize that EVs are early in their production history. They have GREAT potential for improvement and reliability as MORE are purchased. Electric motors are inherently more reliable than IC engines. Electric motor revolve in a circle, while IC engines reciprocate up and down and thus are less efficient. And the center of gravity for the Electric motor and batteries is lower, which is basically superior to an IC engine.
.........The US vehicle makers like Tesla might want to study WHY Norway EVs are so reliable in the cold and year round.

[jimjamuser]

During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.
In a few years the US will have many more charging stations. So, that could help the cold weather driving.

[jimjamuser]

No more new gas small engine sales in California 2024, no more new gas cars in California, and New York 2035. So you can see there is mandates that are eliminating our choices and making it harder for people to co-exist.
I think that what California is doing about eliminating SMALL GAS engines is a GOOD thing. They have no catalytic converters on them and likely put out as much CO2 pollution as a full size car. When I see the yard maintenance people here in The Village using small GAS leaf blowers and GAS weed eaters, I think about the extra noise compared to battery operated tools. I think about the pollution produced. I wonder if California is working to eliminate large riding GAS lawnmowers. And what about GAS golf carts?
..........I particularly like the idea of all stone lawns in the Villages. All that fertilizer waste flowing into the small lakes due to over-fertilizing GRASS yards. All the useless time and money spent CUTTING GRASS.
...........California is making a good transition toward all electric vehicles and small motors. The world is going to run out of Oil and Gas soon anyway!

[jimjamuser]

Probably, at this point, because EV's cause more problems than they solve. People, with all different dynamics and situations in their lives, need a fully vetted EV plan to fully embrace the EV philosophy. No one has time or money for more missteps in this country.

Norway was lauded in an earlier post with it's number of EV's but that is not what it seems, apparently. Do an online search on why Norway, poster child for EV's is having second thoughts about EV's. It's not as simple as everyone running out and buying an EV.

I believe that in the long run it will be determined that EV's and what they require did far more harm to the environment than the combustion engine.

Fusion energy may be the answer with 2050 as the goal for automobile use. Seems like a long time away but 25 years pass quickly, ask any old person.:shocked:
What if OIL runs out before 2050?

[jimjamuser]

Good news for EV lovers. Bargains available from Hertz.

Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/)
Not ........higher repair costs compared to ICE vehicles. The article said that repair costs for Teslas were 20% higher than OTHER EVs.

[Aces4]

What if OIL runs out before 2050?

Natural gas until 2050.

[Bealman]

Not interested in supporting the slave labor Cobalt mining industry in the Congo to reduce carbon dioxide which is 0.04% of the earth’s atmosphere.

Soruce: Department of Energy
Carbon Dioxide 101 | netl.doe.gov (https://netl.doe.gov/coal/carbon-storage/faqs/carbon-dioxide-101)

Because I would rather support other regimes that fly airplanes into our buildings. Abuse women and children. Seems there is no right way. Source: History

[Aces4]

I think that what California is doing about eliminating SMALL GAS engines is a GOOD thing. They have no catalytic converters on them and likely put out as much CO2 pollution as a full size car. When I see the yard maintenance people here in The Village using small GAS leaf blowers and GAS weed eaters, I think about the extra noise compared to battery operated tools. I think about the pollution produced. I wonder if California is working to eliminate large riding GAS lawnmowers. And what about GAS golf carts?
..........I particularly like the idea of all stone lawns in the Villages. All that fertilizer waste flowing into the small lakes due to over-fertilizing GRASS yards. All the useless time and money spent CUTTING GRASS.
...........California is making a good transition toward all electric vehicles and small motors. The world is going to run out of Oil and Gas soon anyway!

And you never think about the toxicity from the battery’s manufacturing, disposal and waste from their creation or the electricity required for all of the above in a totally electric environment. No one ever develops the whole picture of all this proposed electrical environment. The problem with the whole theory is none of it is viable as an efficient process to eliminate fossil fuels.

[Aces4]

Because I would rather support other regimes that fly airplanes into our buildings. Abuse women and children. Seems there is no right way. Source: History

Problem with your statement is we had been fuel efficient and didn’t require other regimes.:ohdear:

[Papa_lecki]

Because I would rather support other regimes that fly airplanes into our buildings. Abuse women and children. Seems there is no right way. Source: History

Or,

The United States Was Energy Independent in 2019 for the First Time Since 1957

U.S. energy production in 2019 was higher than U.S. energy consumption for the first time in 62 years. Thus, the U.S. attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”—which is not to say that we did not import or export energy, but that we produced more energy than we used. One can thank the oil and gas industry and its use of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling for that milestone as production in those industries increased a combined 11 percent in 2019.

[Stu from NYC]

Or,

The United States Was Energy Independent in 2019 for the First Time Since 1957

U.S. energy production in 2019 was higher than U.S. energy consumption for the first time in 62 years. Thus, the U.S. attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”—which is not to say that we did not import or export energy, but that we produced more energy than we used. One can thank the oil and gas industry and its use of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling for that milestone as production in those industries increased a combined 11 percent in 2019.

Well said. Some folks do not seem to understand that it is not a good thing to support other countries that hate us and want to destroy us.

[Byte1]

Because I would rather support other regimes that fly airplanes into our buildings. Abuse women and children. Seems there is no right way. Source: History

You do know that the U.S. of A. produces fossil fuel, right? And you do know that we do not normally resort to "fly airplanes into our buildings" right? Source: History.

[Byte1]

1) Norway Is the Only Country Where the Majority of Car Sales are All-Electric

Norway is one of the coldest regions in the world and is crisscrossed by fjords that make some areas difficult to access. Given concerns that EV batteries don’t run effectively in low temperatures and don’t have as long a range as gasoline vehicles, one would expect that Norway would be one of the last regions to adopt EVs. To the contrary, Norway and its Scandinavian neighbors such as Iceland and Sweden are far and away the leaders in EV adoption. Eight out of 10 passenger car sales in Norway were all-electric vehicles in 2022, with 150,000 sold in total.

Obviously, you only chose to pick out the part that supports your bias, versus what the whole article's subject points out. The article shows that the rich gained from the EV which further divided the inequity of the economy. It also mentioned how mass transport was affected negatively. AND, AND it mentioned that there were more cars on the road when the purpose was to reduce the amount of cars on the road.
Please try to remember that Norway is about 1/30th the size of the U.S. and what is good for one or two small European countries is not necessarily good for us. Cultures are also different in other countries.
Like I said earlier, before taking EVs seriously, this country should have set up a supporting infrastructure that would be conducive to EV integration. You don't sell tickets to ride a train until you have the RR tracks laid out across the country.

[Bill14564]

Problem with your statement is we had been fuel efficient and didn’t require other regimes.:ohdear:

Or,

The United States Was Energy Independent in 2019 for the First Time Since 1957

U.S. energy production in 2019 was higher than U.S. energy consumption for the first time in 62 years. Thus, the U.S. attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”—which is not to say that we did not import or export energy, but that we produced more energy than we used. One can thank the oil and gas industry and its use of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling for that milestone as production in those industries increased a combined 11 percent in 2019.

We are "energy independent" or a net exporter of energy today. (Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/05/02/us-energy-independence-soars-to-highest-levels-in-over-70-years/?sh=31c2fe49977f), and EIA (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/imports-and-exports.php))

I'm still looking for a link that clearly explains we are not, and never have been, self sufficient for gasoline.

[Vermilion Villager]

My permanent home is located squarely in the Lake Erie snowbelt. Our neighbor has two Teslas and never has a problem with cold weather AND both his EV's are parked & charged outside in their driveway, unprotected from the cold & snow right in the open. All you people who for whatever reason hate EV's & especially Tesla need to find something that is actually important to comment on. No one is being forced to buy an EV. You are still free to buy a gas or diesel powered vehicle.

Welcome to the villages! They hate them because they don't have them, and they know that someday it's gonna be really good and they are going to miss out… Hence it is all bad. History will show they are on the wrong side of the argument.
However they are villagers…This is what they do…:mornincoffee:

[Vermilion Villager]

And you never think about the toxicity from the battery’s manufacturing, disposal and waste from their creation or the electricity required for all of the above in a totally electric environment. No one ever develops the whole picture of all this proposed electrical environment. The problem with the whole theory is none of it is viable as an efficient process to eliminate fossil fuels.
You obviously know very little on how a gallon of gasoline is produced. You never seen an article about an oil spill? You can't tell me you've never heard of the Exxon Valdez! How about The Deepwater Horizon Explosion?

Waiting for that article on a major environmental catastrophe having to do with lithium batteries.

[Aces4]

Welcome to the villages! They hate them because they don't have them, and they know that someday it's gonna be really good and they are going to miss out… Hence it is all bad. History will show they are on the wrong side of the argument.
However they are villagers…This is what they do…:mornincoffee:

Oh good, another hater diatribe vs common sense discussion. The electric vehicle in this country at this point is as viable as your argument. Where do you live if not a Villager, btw?

[Aces4]

You obviously know very little on how a gallon of gasoline is produced. You never seen an article about an oil spill? You can't tell me you've never heard of the Exxon Valdez! How about The Deepwater Horizon Explosion?

Waiting for that article on a major environmental catastrophe having to do with lithium batteries.

Oh, please! Are you aware of what lithium batteries require, where and how those materials are obtained and which countries can hold us hostage for those materials? I’m sure you’ve never heard of lithium battery fires, insufficient electrical grid and charging support for every American to operate an EV to start with the issues.

[jimjamuser]

Norway is NOT even 4% the size of the U.S. Norway is finding out that their push for EVs has been somewhat of a disaster, because what they really want is a reduction in cars on the road. Something like 2% of the country's budget is going to subsidies for those purchasing EVs which has turned out to be a redistribution of tax revenues to the rich, because they are the only ones that can afford them in Norway.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. In this case, the other side of the ocean. Remember, the U.S. is about 30 times larger than Norway. Size does matter...:icon_wink:
If Norway is trying to encourage more people to buy EVs, then logically that would mean that the Norway government believes that there is SOMETHING SUPERIOR about EVs over ICE vehicles.

[jimjamuser]

Norway is rethinking about EVs as more and more low income households cannot afford a car and tax subsidies are going to the higher income households that are buying more cars per household than before 2010 when the big push started. Also cities like Oslo although in the north have temperate climates unlike -20 deg in the US Midwest. Average temps in Oslo is around freezing in January.

Why Norway is rethinking its reliance on electric cars - Vox (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo)
That's an interesting article about Norway and their subsidies of EVs to the point of 89% of new car sales. That compares to about 20% of new car EV sales in Europe and 7% in the US. One reason that EVs were so popular was the VERY LOW cost of electricity due to many hydroelectric plants. Norway stopped investing in bus and trolley car service for their big cities. And they failed to develop their own low to medium priced EV suitable for the middle class.
.........They were successful at promoting clean air through EVs. But, now they want their large cities to have wider sidewalks, walking paths, and to increase the bike and E-bike usage.
...........Norway likely put too much emphasis on one solution (clean air through EVs) and should have done more diverse solutions.
............Similarly, the US probably put too much emphasis on super-highways and air travel and not enough on trains, buses, and trolley cars. And too much suburbia and not enough clean, crime-free inner city.

[jimjamuser]

There is a story in Newsbreak today about the reliability of EVs versus ICE vehicles in the winter in Norway. Norway has the MOST EVs in Europe with 24% of all vehicles. Norway's statistics show that the internal combustion engine vehicles break down MORE often in cold weather than EVs.
...........Now obviously the people in Norway have more experience with EVs than the US, which has only about 7% of new car sales being EVs. Norway probably has more charging stations than the US. And the article did NOT say which MAKE of automobile was popular in Norway. Maybe there are a lot of Volvos and Mercedes in Norway and they have some special strong design features set up for cold weather.
..........But, people in the US need to realize that EVs are early in their production history. They have GREAT potential for improvement and reliability as MORE are purchased. Electric motors are inherently more reliable than IC engines. Electric motor revolve in a circle, while IC engines reciprocate up and down and thus are less efficient. And the center of gravity for the Electric motor and batteries is lower, which is basically superior to an IC engine.
.........The US vehicle makers like Tesla might want to study WHY Norway EVs are so reliable in the cold and year round.
Another advantage of EVs over ICE vehicles is that the EVs use about 1/3 the small parts as an ICE vehicle. Eventually that fact and less expensive battery technology is likely to allow EVs to be the less costly vehicle.

[jimjamuser]

And you never think about the toxicity from the battery’s manufacturing, disposal and waste from their creation or the electricity required for all of the above in a totally electric environment. No one ever develops the whole picture of all this proposed electrical environment. The problem with the whole theory is none of it is viable as an efficient process to eliminate fossil fuels.
Nuclear Energy generation is WAY, WAY safer than it was 40 years ago. There are solar, wind, tides, thermal, and hydroelectricity as methods of generating electricity. Fossil fuel use does NOT have to be eliminated, just minimized.

[Topspinmo]

Because I would rather support other regimes that fly airplanes into our buildings. Abuse women and children. Seems there is no right way. Source: History

Looks like WW3 in near future we will need Saudi’s on our side.

[Topspinmo]

If you don't like Tesla, fine but don't make up lies while basing them. There's nothing wrong with Tesla's charging network, I've never had any problems in the 9 years I've driven my car.

Ps: yes, electric vehicles have slightly less range in the cold but I love the convenience of turning on my electric heat and heated seats and heated steering wheel 3 minutes before I enter my car when it's 15 degrees outside. Nice & toasty when I get in. One of the benefits of an EV that you can't do in an ICE car. :)
Pss: I respect that EVs won't work for some people and some people don't like change but for the life of me I don't understand the bashing?

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)

So you think they are lying.

[Topspinmo]

Agree. I really don't get this obsession with dissing EV's. It's like these people feel sooo threatened. Maybe it's because it represents change, something different than what they grew up with and they hate change of any kind? Or is it because the gasoline industry pays for PR to stigmatize alternate energy sources and people choose to believe these pundits - unreliable sources that basically spew garbage? Or is it because some people somehow equate EV's with climate change, and again, disregarding science, they are climate change deniers? Whatever the reason, these people are haters and have an agenda. Good luck with that, EV's are here to stay, which shouldn't be a problem. You can still have your gasoline powered car, there is no reason the two can't co-exist. Enough already.

Right back at you. When you denied reports and on national news.

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)

[Topspinmo]

The two claims were the large number of recent reports of EV problems in Chicago and "Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries. "

- I noted that while there were a large number of reports, including the link you provided, they all appear to be based on two unique reports. Rather than going out and finding the problem for themselves, most (all?) of the stories today are just regurgitating those two reports. So, as I asked in post #2: Lazy reporting or not as much of a story as the press is making it out to be?

- As for "all the EV's that got stranded," I still cannot find one article to support that assertion. There likely were EV's stuck in the traffic jam, right next to the ICE vehicles. There may have been EV's that ran out of charge, right next to the ICE vehicles that ran out of gas. There may have been abandoned EV's that needed to be towed, just as there were ICE vehicles that needed to be towed. But what I cannot find is any confirmation of "all the EV's that got stranded" due to "depleted batteries."

Do EVs get less mileage out of a charge in the cold weather? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run as well in the cold weather as they do in the warm weather? No, their gas mileage goes down too. Are EVs more impacted than ICE vehicles? Possibly, but I haven't seen any data to show one way or another.

Are there stories of EVs having problems getting a spot to charge in Chicago in the cold weather this month? Absolutely. Is it better to have an ICE vehicle in Chicago this month? It sort of looks that way based on only those two articles. But does anyone remember trying to get gas during the early part of COVID, during the pipeline issue in spring 2021, or during the last two hurricanes forecast for Florida? During those times it would have been much better to have an EV.

So what think going to happen when majority in 30 years have EVs and power get knocked out from extreme weather or blackout for week or more? only cherry pick articles you like.

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/16/tesla-charge-cold-weather-electric-vehicles)

[patfla06]

Our car dealer strongly suggests AC garages, because heat in FL effects battery life. Even at purchase of something as inexpensive as our electric mower, we were warned not to leave batteries in the FL garage. Charge and store in climate control house.or battery life will be half. So not sure about EV auto in heat, only have experience in cold. So far our family have traded in before batteries were in need of replacement.

We are swapping kids EV for our 7 person suv for the summer will see how TV heat effects the EV batteries.

So if you drive an EV to “help” the environment doesn’t it get offset by having to put air conditioning in your garage??

[PersonOfInterest]

If you think EV owners have a problem with the cold what about Motorcycle riders? These guys cannot undertake a trip in the freezing temperatures. This effects both Electric and Gas powered Motorcycles. On a motorcycle you need to add in wind chill and a small patch of ice and the resultant loss of traction can be a disaster. Most motorcycle riders just have to accept that they are not riding in those freezing temperatures.

[John Mayes]

I think that what California is doing about eliminating SMALL GAS engines is a GOOD thing. They have no catalytic converters on them and likely put out as much CO2 pollution as a full size car. When I see the yard maintenance people here in The Village using small GAS leaf blowers and GAS weed eaters, I think about the extra noise compared to battery operated tools. I think about the pollution produced. I wonder if California is working to eliminate large riding GAS lawnmowers. And what about GAS golf carts?
..........I particularly like the idea of all stone lawns in the Villages. All that fertilizer waste flowing into the small lakes due to over-fertilizing GRASS yards. All the useless time and money spent CUTTING GRASS.
...........California is making a good transition toward all electric vehicles and small motors. The world is going to run out of Oil and Gas soon anyway!

Who does your lawncare?

[huge-pigeons]

How about California where you are mandated to buy an EV starting in 2035 but they were told not to charge their EVs last year at many different times because they didn’t have the grid capacity to charge them.

How about the EV owners in Texas a couple years ago where the grid was down because of the cold weather. Now your stuck in a cold house in frigid temperatures unless you have a gas car.
If you look at the Texas news today, EV owners are having problems in the Texas cold (which is a lot warmer than Chicago), Austin, Houston, etc.

“Hertz dumping 20,000 of its electric vehicles, Of note: Hertz is writing down a $245 million loss with the move. The company declined to comment beyond the SEC filing.”
Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/11/hertz-evs-electric-vehicles-20000#:~:text=Hertz%20dumping%2020%2C000%20of%20it s%20electric%20vehicles&text=Of%20note%3A%20Hertz%20is%20writing,comment%2 0beyond%20the%20SEC%20filing).

[asianthree]

So if you drive an EV to “help” the environment doesn’t it get offset by having to put air conditioning in your garage??

Try to READ post as written “Our car Dealer strongly suggests AC garages, because heat in FL effect battery”.. SO you are Bi**hing at the wrong person. If you want her number you can call to make you feel better.
OP asked about EV and cold weather which we have experience, We didn’t bring down EV from north, just got advice from dealer, which i passed on. Again reading posts just takes a few seconds

[Byte1]

If you think EV owners have a problem with the cold what about Motorcycle riders? These guys cannot undertake a trip in the freezing temperatures. This effects both Electric and Gas powered Motorcycles. On a motorcycle you need to add in wind chill and a small patch of ice and the resultant loss of traction can be a disaster. Most motorcycle riders just have to accept that they are not riding in those freezing temperatures.

Did someone suggest motorcycles as a viable replacement for ANY automobile? Can anyone say "straw-man argument?"

[Topspinmo]

Did someone suggest motorcycles as a viable replacement for ANY automobile? Can anyone say "straw-man argument?"

In 3rd world countries motorcycle main form of transportation next to bicycle and only reason motor scooter ahead of bicycle due to Chinese cheap models. Maybe coming to state near us in future? :throwtomatoes:

[Topspinmo]

How about California where you are mandated to buy an EV starting in 2035 but they were told not to charge their EVs last year at many different times because they didn’t have the grid capacity to charge them.

How about the EV owners in Texas a couple years ago where the grid was down because of the cold weather. Now your stuck in a cold house in frigid temperatures unless you have a gas car.
If you look at the Texas news today, EV owners are having problems in the Texas cold (which is a lot warmer than Chicago), Austin, Houston, etc.

“Hertz dumping 20,000 of its electric vehicles, Of note: Hertz is writing down a $245 million loss with the move. The company declined to comment beyond the SEC filing.”
Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/01/11/hertz-evs-electric-vehicles-20000#:~:text=Hertz%20dumping%2020%2C000%20of%20it s%20electric%20vehicles&text=Of%20note%3A%20Hertz%20is%20writing,comment%2 0beyond%20the%20SEC%20filing).


Here another “more trusted” news source for some EV market going cold for how long? Probably till free printed money arrives?

Ford, GM, and even Tesla are warning about EV market (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-gm-and-even-tesla-are-warning-about-the-ev-market-194905657.html)

[Byte1]

In 3rd world countries motorcycle main form of transportation next to bicycle and only reason motor scooter ahead of bicycle due to Chinese cheap models. Maybe coming to state near us in future? :throwtomatoes:

Yes, ha, ha. Because I wish to save the world from Climate Change so I think I will ride my bicycle when I wish to go grocery shopping, out to a restaurant to eat, or to Ocala for a doctor's appointment:beer3: Tell me that the citizens of those poor countries wouldn't rather a dirty old ICE vehicle than riding a bicycle for their travels, if they could afford one. And don't throw tomatoes at me.....:girlneener:

[Glowfromminnesota]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

We had our Tesla in Minnesota for four years and it worked use fine. Bought a different Tesla in Florida—traded for a smaller Tesla.

[Byte1]

We had our Tesla in Minnesota for four years and it worked use fine. Bought a different Tesla in Florida—traded for a smaller Tesla.

Just out of curiosity, did you own an EV BEFORE you retired and drove it every day to your place of employment? Were you able to charge it at your place of employment or did it have enough charge to travel round trip? Did you drive it in the frigid cold and snow in Minnesota? The point of the subject was that EVs have reduced performance in cold weather. Did you get as good performance in the winter as you did in the Spring and Summer? You mentioned that your worked just fine for four years, but details do matter.

[Bill14564]

...

How about the EV owners in Texas a couple years ago where the grid was down because of the cold weather. Now your stuck in a cold house in frigid temperatures unless you have a gas car.
And what did Texans with gas cars do? If the answer is they sat in their warm cars then you'll be interested in the tests that show an EV can keep a heater running as long, if not longer, than an ICE.

If the same thing happened today a bidirectional charger would enable the EV to power the house for two or more days. This is not available for all models yet and is more expensive than a traditional charger but it is an EV option that does not exist for a gas car.

If you look at the Texas news today, EV owners are having problems in the Texas cold (which is a lot warmer than Chicago), Austin, Houston, etc.

...
Can't find anything like this at all. Do you have links to the articles or the search phrase for google? Using "Texas EV cold" and "Texas EV" finds nothing other than more references to the same two articles from the Chicago area.

[mickey100]

Of course EV's are going to lose some range in cold weather - it's the nature of battery science. All cars, gas and electric, lose some efficiency in cold weather, but for now, EV's lose more. That said, the newer EV's come with heat pumps that warm the interiors, causing significantly less battery strain in cold weather than older EV models. The technology continues to evolve and improve. And there are things that can be done to maximize charging/driving range. Turn on the inside heat while the car is charging; park the car inside when the weather is cold; if you live in a cold weather climate, buy an EV that has the longest range. Electric vehicles have a lot of pluses. Depending on where you live, fuel costs can be half of what you pay for a gasoline powered car. Maintenance costs are less - electric motors have far fewer moving parts, you never need oil changes, spark plugs, fuel filters. The cars handle wonderfully and depending on the model are extremely quiet and have quick acceleration. And depending on where you live, there are tax incentives. I have a hybrid at this point which I love, because it is so quiet and it gets 50 mpg around town. Once the country beefs up the availability of charging stations I would certainly consider an EV when I'm ready to trade. If you're old school, and you want to hang on to your gasoline car, fine. I just don't get the constant negativity about new technology.

[Fastskiguy]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

My best advice to you is to never, ever buy one. It would absolutely be a terrible thing for you. You probably would not survive it. Stick with ice cars. It’s literally your only option. I hope this helps.

Joe

[Cindyd]

A simple Google search! Here's just 1...this was is re station itself. Chicago-area Tesla charging stations see stranded drivers as their cars are not charging dead batteries in freezing cold weather - ABC7 San Francisco (https://abc7news.com/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-freezing-cold-weather-teslas-not-batteries/14330309/)

[ThirdOfFive]

Of course EV's are going to lose some range in cold weather - it's the nature of battery science. All cars, gas and electric, lose some efficiency in cold weather, but for now, EV's lose more. That said, the newer EV's come with heat pumps that warm the interiors, causing significantly less battery strain in cold weather than older EV models. The technology continues to evolve and improve. And there are things that can be done to maximize charging/driving range. Turn on the inside heat while the car is charging; park the car inside when the weather is cold; if you live in a cold weather climate, buy an EV that has the longest range. Electric vehicles have a lot of pluses. Depending on where you live, fuel costs can be half of what you pay for a gasoline powered car. Maintenance costs are less - electric motors have far fewer moving parts, you never need oil changes, spark plugs, fuel filters. The cars handle wonderfully and depending on the model are extremely quiet and have quick acceleration. And depending on where you live, there are tax incentives. I have a hybrid at this point which I love, because it is so quiet and it gets 50 mpg around town. Once the country beefs up the availability of charging stations I would certainly consider an EV when I'm ready to trade. If you're old school, and you want to hang on to your gasoline car, fine. I just don't get the constant negativity about new technology.
Not so much the loss, but what it takes to replace it.

Five minutes at a gas pump surely does beat an hour at a charging station.

[Vermilion Villager]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.

I'm going to assume you do not have an EV. Please confirm yes or no......
After saying that it appears the purpose of this post is to bash something you do not have. Y'all seem to put a lot of effort into hating things you don't have.

All vehicles have diminished capabilities in cold weather. In most states they blend the fuel in the winter and that blend creates less BTUs which gives you poor gas mileage. I have an EV and I can tell you that yes it does not perform as well in the winter as it does in the summer. You made a comment about the vehicles not performing well in the summer. That is not the truth! My EV performs just as good at 90° as it does at 70°. The issues with EV's in the winter amounts to nothing more than a slight inconvenience and no worse than the inconvenience I have with my gas vehicle.

[Fastskiguy]

Not so much the loss, but what it takes to replace it.

Five minutes at a gas pump surely does beat an hour at a charging station.

Whatever you do, do not get an EV. I can tell it's just not the right fit for you. Stick with an ICE car. It's the only option that makes sense.

Joe

[Fastskiguy]

?!?!?!?!? Are you a psychic? If not then an extremely controlling individual seems the only option that makes sense...........:shrug:

Just trying to help! :)

Joe

[Aces4]

I read that article - the only one I could find with anything negative to say about the Norway experience.

Norway's govt appears to be rethinking EVs due to their overwhelming success. Because EVs are so popular, people are buying cars rather than using public transportation. Since Norway's official plan now seems to be to get its people out of cars and onto bikes or public transportation, the very successful switch to EVs has become a problem. To me, this says more about the govt of Norway than about the viability of EVs.

As for temperature - to me, the jury is still out. The temps in Oslo are fairly temperate? The temps in the top 20 largest cities in the US, including Chicago, are no less temperate. If EVs successfully handle the weather in Oslo then they should also successfully handle the weather in those 20 cities.

Talk about skewed interpretation..

[Aces4]

I'm going to assume you do not have an EV. Please confirm yes or no......
After saying that it appears the purpose of this post is to bash something you do not have. Y'all seem to put a lot of effort into hating things you don't have.

All vehicles have diminished capabilities in cold weather. In most states they blend the fuel in the winter and that blend creates less BTUs which gives you poor gas mileage. I have an EV and I can tell you that yes it does not perform as well in the winter as it does in the summer. You made a comment about the vehicles not performing well in the summer. That is not the truth! My EV performs just as good at 90° as it does at 70°. The issues with EV's in the winter amounts to nothing more than a slight inconvenience and no worse than the inconvenience I have with my gas vehicle.

I think what “y’all” hate is being forced to drive an EV when it isn’t viable at this point between the electrical grid being inadequate and climate issues with EVs. Hybrids… maybe.

I think the funniest thing is a new EV owner gushing how she loves it but telling a family member how she hates it. Loses a charge so fast in deep cold temps that she seldom gets much further than short distances from home. That’s not hating on anyone, those are viability facts.

[Aces4]

I'm going to assume you do not have an EV. Please confirm yes or no......
After saying that it appears the purpose of this post is to bash something you do not have. Y'all seem to put a lot of effort into hating things you don't have.

All vehicles have diminished capabilities in cold weather. In most states they blend the fuel in the winter and that blend creates less BTUs which gives you poor gas mileage. I have an EV and I can tell you that yes it does not perform as well in the winter as it does in the summer. You made a comment about the vehicles not performing well in the summer. That is not the truth! My EV performs just as good at 90° as it does at 70°. The issues with EV's in the winter amounts to nothing more than a slight inconvenience and no worse than the inconvenience I have with my gas vehicle.

Do you live in The Villages? Why wouldn’t your EV perform as well in Florida’s balmy winters? Not picking, just curious.

[Aces4]

Of course EV's are going to lose some range in cold weather - it's the nature of battery science. All cars, gas and electric, lose some efficiency in cold weather, but for now, EV's lose more. That said, the newer EV's come with heat pumps that warm the interiors, causing significantly less battery strain in cold weather than older EV models. The technology continues to evolve and improve. And there are things that can be done to maximize charging/driving range. Turn on the inside heat while the car is charging; park the car inside when the weather is cold; if you live in a cold weather climate, buy an EV that has the longest range. Electric vehicles have a lot of pluses. Depending on where you live, fuel costs can be half of what you pay for a gasoline powered car. Maintenance costs are less - electric motors have far fewer moving parts, you never need oil changes, spark plugs, fuel filters. The cars handle wonderfully and depending on the model are extremely quiet and have quick acceleration. And depending on where you live, there are tax incentives. I have a hybrid at this point which I love, because it is so quiet and it gets 50 mpg around town. Once the country beefs up the availability of charging stations I would certainly consider an EV when I'm ready to trade. If you're old school, and you want to hang on to your gasoline car, fine. I just don't get the constant negativity about new technology.

It’s not negativity about new technology, it’s negativity about the lack of technology. When an EV offers exactly what I have in my ICE without pollution, I’m on board. It’s not even close at this point. And I think when mentioning vehicle maintenance, you forgot the $4,000.+ for battery replacements and disposal.

If the powers that be worked to develop interest in hybrids, you would see far more support.

[Bill14564]

Talk about skewed interpretation..

Sure, let's talk about it. Go and read the article (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo) and then point out where that is a skewed interpretation (it will save me the trouble of copying/pasting half of the quotes)

[Bill14564]

It’s not negativity about new technology, it’s negativity about the lack of technology. When an EV offers exactly what I have in my ICE without pollution, I’m on board. It’s not even close at this point. And I think when mentioning vehicle maintenance, you forgot the $4,000.+ for battery replacements and disposal.

If the powers that be worked to develop interest in hybrids, you would see far more support.

How much did it cost you the last time you replaced your car engine and disposed of the old one? In the last 40+ years that I have owned cars it has cost me exactly $0, which is how much I expect to spend to replace and dispose of EV batteries as well.

[Aces4]

How much did it cost you the last time you replaced your car engine and disposed of the old one?

We drove Honda’s, Toyota’s and Lexus which were all good for over 250,000 miles. We never replaced a motor. We didn’t buy new cars very often but we weren’t into the newest look.

Who can afford to lay out the coin for a hybrid vehicle and then another $4000 for a battery replacement? I’m not trying knock the EV’s, I’m trying to tell you why people don’t want them shoved down their throats before all the necessary technology and cost efficiency is provided.

[Aces4]

Sure, let's talk about it. Go and read the article (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo) and then point out where that is a skewed interpretation (it will save me the trouble of copying/pasting half of the quotes)

Lol, I’m the who recommended the article here in the first place.

[coffeebean]

Internal combustion engine. You know like 95% on road.
Thanks. I know now when I Googled it and read about it.

[Aces4]

Nuclear Energy generation is WAY, WAY safer than it was 40 years ago. There are solar, wind, tides, thermal, and hydroelectricity as methods of generating electricity. Fossil fuel use does NOT have to be eliminated, just minimized.

I promoted the development of nuclear, (fusion), energy earlier here.

I propose that upon the development of total electrical vehicles, all airline use is discontinued with the exception of military. Also, we need to dismantle all the cruise ships other than military transports. Now you’re really knocking a big hole in pollution.

[Bill14564]

We drove Honda’s, Toyota’s and Lexus which were all good for over 250,000 miles. We never replaced a motor. We didn’t buy new cars very often but we weren’t into the newest look.

Who can afford to lay out the coin for a hybrid vehicle and then another $4000 for a battery replacement? I’m not trying knock the EV’s, I’m trying to tell you why people don’t want them shoved down their throats before all the necessary technology and cost efficiency is provided.

Why would you replace the battery in an EV? Do you have statistics that show the average car owner keeps a car for 250,000 miles or that the EV battery will not last that long?

An EV might not fit your driving needs. Someone who needs to carry hay bales or building supplies might feel a Honda, Toyota, or Lexus does not fit their needs. Recognize that your criticism of EVs is "I don't believe they fit what I want to do" and not "they are not technologically viable."

People don't want to feel anything is being shoved down their throats. Even when, like now, nothing at all is being shoved down their throat. *Maybe* more than ten years from now in *some* states it will not be possible to buy an ICE vehicle. *If* that actually happens then eight or nine years from there will be a buying spree. But, given the advancements made in the last ten years, I suspect that by the time those rules come into play it will be so common to own an EV that the rules will no longer be necessary.

[coffeebean]

Old news. This issue came to light last year during the winter storms.

I guess I wasn't paying attention last year. LOL.

[coffeebean]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal

We don't live in cold weather. The weather here is perfect for Electric Vehicles

I wasn't referring to locations with moderate temperatures like we have here in Florida. The concerns are for folks who live in frigid weather as that is where the problems are.

[Aces4]

Why would you replace the battery in an EV? Do you have statistics that show the average car owner keeps a car for 250,000 miles or that the EV battery will not last that long?

An EV might not fit your driving needs. Someone who needs to carry hay bales or building supplies might feel a Honda, Toyota, or Lexus does not fit their needs. Recognize that your criticism of EVs is "I don't believe they fit what I want to do" and not "they are not technologically viable."

People don't want to feel anything is being shoved down their throats. Even when, like now, nothing at all is being shoved down their throat. *Maybe* more than ten years from now in *some* states it will not be possible to buy an ICE vehicle. *If* that actually happens then eight or nine years from there will be a buying spree. But, given the advancements made in the last ten years, I suspect that by the time those rules come into play it will be so common to own an EV that the rules will no longer be necessary.

To be honest, I hope EVs never hit full throttle. The infrastructure mess alone that will be created to be cleaned up when the fusion engine is developed will be polluting in itself.

Id like to know how you feel enough electricity to operate EVERYTHING in our lives will be created. Wind turbines aren’t totally reliable, sunshine in this country won’t be enough unless you think every square mile should be covered in solar grids which can be wiped out in severe swathes of weather, hydropower is limited to certain areas…

[Topspinmo]

We drove Honda’s, Toyota’s and Lexus which were all good for over 250,000 miles. We never replaced a motor. We didn’t buy new cars very often but we weren’t into the newest look.

Who can afford to lay out the coin for a hybrid vehicle and then another $4000 for a battery replacement? I’m not trying knock the EV’s, I’m trying to tell you why people don’t want them shoved down their throats before all the necessary technology and cost efficiency is provided.


I have never had to replace engine in any of my vehicles which was mostly used when I brought them. But, I knew if the previous owners had some clue of preventive maintenance which most don’t. Why the trade when warranty about out.

[Aces4]

Why would you replace the battery in an EV? Do you have statistics that show the average car owner keeps a car for 250,000 miles or that the EV battery will not last that long?

An EV might not fit your driving needs. Someone who needs to carry hay bales or building supplies might feel a Honda, Toyota, or Lexus does not fit their needs. Recognize that your criticism of EVs is "I don't believe they fit what I want to do" and not "they are not technologically viable."

People don't want to feel anything is being shoved down their throats. Even when, like now, nothing at all is being shoved down their throat. *Maybe* more than ten years from now in *some* states it will not be possible to buy an ICE vehicle. *If* that actually happens then eight or nine years from there will be a buying spree. But, given the advancements made in the last ten years, I suspect that by the time those rules come into play it will be so common to own an EV that the rules will no longer be necessary.

The laws are in the process now in states to outlaw ICE vehicles.

Not everyone drives their own vehicles to over 250,000 miles but someone does. It’s a pleasure selling one of the above mentioned vehicles that are running fine. Workman love them for getting back and forth to their occupation and college kids like them together to school and back and so forth.

[Topspinmo]

To be honest, I hope EVs never hit full throttle. The infrastructure mess alone that will be created to be cleaned up when the fusion engine is developed will be polluting in itself.

Id like to know how you feel enough electricity to operate EVERYTHING in our lives will be created. Wind turbines aren’t totally reliable, sunshine in this country won’t be enough unless you think every square mile should be covered in solar grids which can be wiped out in severe swathes of weather, hydropower is limited to certain areas…

Ev won’t last that long hydrogen engine will make them obsolete along with most ICE vehicles.

[Aces4]

I have never had to replace engine in any of my vehicles which was mostly used when I brought them. But, I knew if the previous owners had some clue of preventive maintenance which most don’t. Why the trade when warranty about out.

I don’t think I understand your point.. but if you are saying maintenance is key, I totally agree.

[Aces4]

Ev won’t last that long hydrogen engine will make them obsolete along with most ICE vehicles.

Yeah, that was my point. Then you have all the cleanup for the EV mess.

[coffeebean]

If you don't like Tesla, fine but don't make up lies while basing them. There's nothing wrong with Tesla's charging network, I've never had any problems in the 9 years I've driven my car.

Ps: yes, electric vehicles have slightly less range in the cold but I love the convenience of turning on my electric heat and heated seats and heated steering wheel 3 minutes before I enter my car when it's 15 degrees outside. Nice & toasty when I get in. One of the benefits of an EV that you can't do in an ICE car. :)
Pss: I respect that EVs won't work for some people and some people don't like change but for the life of me I don't understand the bashing?

We had a remote start installed in my Toyota Highlander (gas SUV) when we lived in New Jersey. I kept the heat on and the windshield defroster on so when I started the car it heated up pretty quickly. After about 10 minutes in that freezing cold weather, I got into a nice toasty vehicle which was always parked on the driveway.

[Topspinmo]

Yes, ha, ha. Because I wish to save the world from Climate Change so I think I will ride my bicycle when I wish to go grocery shopping, out to a restaurant to eat, or to Ocala for a doctor's appointment:beer3: Tell me that the citizens of those poor countries wouldn't rather a dirty old ICE vehicle than riding a bicycle for their travels, if they could afford one. And don't throw tomatoes at me.....:girlneener:

They would if they could but the can’t. Why they want get free pass into here.

[Cliff Fr]

My permanent home is located squarely in the Lake Erie snowbelt. Our neighbor has two Teslas and never has a problem with cold weather AND both his EV's are parked & charged outside in their driveway, unprotected from the cold & snow right in the open. All you people who for whatever reason hate EV's & especially Tesla need to find something that is actually important to comment on. No one is being forced to buy an EV. You are still free to buy a gas or diesel powered vehicle.

Actually currently, if you want a new car or suv after 2035 you will be forced to buy an EV. That is what upsets a lot of people, not the existence of EVs.

[Normal]

It’s all about heat. You can keep your car charged if you don’t let it go below 20% as recommended by Tesla. Garaging your car will help keep the batteries warm without using stored power. Finally, electric cars heat the cabin of the vehicle through electrical resistance instead of using engine heat like gas powered vehicles. Use the cabin heater less or set it to low to get more mileage and more out of your charge.

[jimjamuser]

So if you drive an EV to “help” the environment doesn’t it get offset by having to put air conditioning in your garage??
That would depend on the COST of electricity AND how environmentally friendly that GENERATION of electricity is. In the Norway example, they have lots of low cost and available clean hydro-electric power. Probably much more per population than we have in the US. We would have to develop and install SAFE nuclear energy plants.And also the US has a population problem to deal with.

[jimjamuser]

If you think EV owners have a problem with the cold what about Motorcycle riders? These guys cannot undertake a trip in the freezing temperatures. This effects both Electric and Gas powered Motorcycles. On a motorcycle you need to add in wind chill and a small patch of ice and the resultant loss of traction can be a disaster. Most motorcycle riders just have to accept that they are not riding in those freezing temperatures.
All I know about cold weather motorcycles is.........during WW2 Russia took over the BMW plant that produced motorcycles for the German Army. The Russians kept the design for the horizontally opposed 2 cylinder engine and added a chain arrangement drive the front wheel in addition to the rear wheel drive. It gave better traction in ice and snow. A Canadian guy drove one across Canada in the winter to make some kind of a record.
.........I know of a guy that drove a HARLEY every day summer and winter in Pa.
.........A long time ago, I had a Vespa that was pretty stable in ice and snow. Somehow, I lived through that. Probably luck!

[jimjamuser]

Did someone suggest motorcycles as a viable replacement for ANY automobile? Can anyone say "straw-man argument?"
Years ago in China, there were very few automobiles seen in pictures of rush hours in their big cities. You DID see lots of bicycles and motorcycles. Suppose in the US in 4 years the world runs out of cheap oil...... and gasoline costs $20 per gal. Then, I imagine we would see a lot of bicycles, E-bikes, and E-motorcycles.

[jimjamuser]

Of course EV's are going to lose some range in cold weather - it's the nature of battery science. All cars, gas and electric, lose some efficiency in cold weather, but for now, EV's lose more. That said, the newer EV's come with heat pumps that warm the interiors, causing significantly less battery strain in cold weather than older EV models. The technology continues to evolve and improve. And there are things that can be done to maximize charging/driving range. Turn on the inside heat while the car is charging; park the car inside when the weather is cold; if you live in a cold weather climate, buy an EV that has the longest range. Electric vehicles have a lot of pluses. Depending on where you live, fuel costs can be half of what you pay for a gasoline powered car. Maintenance costs are less - electric motors have far fewer moving parts, you never need oil changes, spark plugs, fuel filters. The cars handle wonderfully and depending on the model are extremely quiet and have quick acceleration. And depending on where you live, there are tax incentives. I have a hybrid at this point which I love, because it is so quiet and it gets 50 mpg around town. Once the country beefs up the availability of charging stations I would certainly consider an EV when I'm ready to trade. If you're old school, and you want to hang on to your gasoline car, fine. I just don't get the constant negativity about new technology.
New technology can THREATEN the old technology and the profits of those invested in the old technology.

[jimjamuser]

Not so much the loss, but what it takes to replace it.

Five minutes at a gas pump surely does beat an hour at a charging station.
It is possible to look at it that way. OR...........a person might say that because an EV has much fewer parts than an IC Engine vehicle - and does NOT need oil changes - both of which would mean that the IC Engine vehicle will spend MUCH more TIME in the repair shop (SOMETIMES DAYS).
........I just think that it makes sense that as EVs mature and develop that THEY will win the reliability argument over the ICE vehicles.

[jimjamuser]

I promoted the development of nuclear, (fusion), energy earlier here.

I propose that upon the development of total electrical vehicles, all airline use is discontinued with the exception of military. Also, we need to dismantle all the cruise ships other than military transports. Now you’re really knocking a big hole in pollution.
ICE vehicles are NOT the ONLY source of CO2 pollution in the world. They are just a LARGE source and one that could be relatively easily replaced with EVs. Right now there are no battery powered commercial airliners. Ocean liners and freighters COULD BE replaced by large sailboats, but that would take a lot of conversion. If the world runs out of OIL, then lots of radical solutions will HAVE to be tried.

[FredMitchell]

During cold weather the cars heater chews up the battery charge rapidly. Not a problem for those leaving their garage fully charged for a short commute, but major issues otherwise. Remembering all the EV’s that got stranded on I 95 between Fredericksburg and Richmond three winters ago when snow/ice shut down the highway overnight and keeping warm depleted the batteries.
Your claim about the storm and EVs causing a problem is BS. We were driving in Virginia when that storm hit. The bad weather was forecast. On our second day of the trip back from TV to NJ, we departed early in the morning when the storm hit. The temperature when we started was about 38F. The temperature dropped 1degree Fahrenheit per 10 Interstate miles driven. I was not having control problems. I was very familiar with driving in worse conditions. That said, changing lanes was tricky because the snow was accumulating between lanes, which will cause a skid that needs to be managed carefully. I chose to exit and find a place to stay because the traffic was heavy and it was clear that too many other drivers were unlikely to be able to handle the conditions. The roads had not been brined or salted, which would have been normal in more northern states. Lack of road treatment was the most important cause. Had they been properly treated and plows had been ready and available, that road probably would have stayed open and moving.

We pulled into a hotel mid-morning and waited for checkouts and room cleanings. By the end of the day, the interstate had turned into a 50 mile parking lot in both directions. Cars were actually stopped dead and remained out overnight. Naturally, clearing the roads was extremely problematic well into the next afternoon!

The next morning we left at almost noon. All of the roads, even off the highways were a mess. Many were blocked. In my lifetime, I had not seen so many vehicles that had departed the road, in many cases far off the road. What should have been a 4 hour drive turned into nearly 12 hours. Most of that time was spent on the first 60 to 120 miles. We did not get onto a major highway until we got to Maryland.

As to the claim about heat. It takes the same amount of energy to heat a car, regardless of its power plant. That is basic physics.

[jimjamuser]

Yeah, that was my point. Then you have all the cleanup for the EV mess.
Around the earth, the last 10 or 11 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Lots of people died in the large cities due to OVER-HEATING last summer. This is going on because of humans, too much fossil fuel use, and too much CO2 production. That needs to be STOPPED right NOW! Nuclear fusion and even nuclear energy plants are a FUTURE thing. Fossil fuels are running out anyway. EVs are the only answer, right NOW.
........The majority of Climate Scientists are talking about a "tipping point". Everyone that thinks that the US at 7% of new EV sales is going to stop this "tipping point" must believe that ALL these Climate Scientists are just MAKING UP this PROBLEM. Denying a problem does NOT make it go away.

[Dusty_Star]

....And also the US has a population problem to deal with.

The US has a population problem? Please explain.

[Aces4]

New technology can THREATEN the old technology and the profits of those invested in the old technology.

There is far more money invested in the electrical conversion of this country. Don’t you wonder why all the investors and the company’s involved in all the aspects of electrical conversions aren’t outed? Might make people really open their eyes.:popcorn:

[Byte1]

I'm going to assume you do not have an EV. Please confirm yes or no......
After saying that it appears the purpose of this post is to bash something you do not have. Y'all seem to put a lot of effort into hating things you don't have.

All vehicles have diminished capabilities in cold weather. In most states they blend the fuel in the winter and that blend creates less BTUs which gives you poor gas mileage. I have an EV and I can tell you that yes it does not perform as well in the winter as it does in the summer. You made a comment about the vehicles not performing well in the summer. That is not the truth! My EV performs just as good at 90° as it does at 70°. The issues with EV's in the winter amounts to nothing more than a slight inconvenience and no worse than the inconvenience I have with my gas vehicle.

Probably doesn't own one, because that would make her/him kind of stupid to bash themselves as making a very bad decision. I bet you wouldn't say anything bad about EVs if you suddenly realized that you had made a very/very poor decision. :cus:

[Carlsondm]

Electric vehicles are losing their charge in the cold weather. They also have diminished performance in hot weather. Watching the news, these EVs look abysmal for cold weather climates.
The diesel started off awkwardly with that issue. The Model T had a few problems too. Give it time and issues with battery operated vehicles will be ironed out too. I like the hybrids for that reason.

[Byte1]

Years ago in China, there were very few automobiles seen in pictures of rush hours in their big cities. You DID see lots of bicycles and motorcycles. Suppose in the US in 4 years the world runs out of cheap oil...... and gasoline costs $20 per gal. Then, I imagine we would see a lot of bicycles, E-bikes, and E-motorcycles.

If, if, if. .
Sorry, not interested in excuses for the EVs just not ready yet. Dinner time.

[Aces4]

Around the earth, the last 10 or 11 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Lots of people died in the large cities due to OVER-HEATING last summer. This is going on because of humans, too much fossil fuel use, and too much CO2 production. That needs to be STOPPED right NOW! Nuclear fusion and even nuclear energy plants are a FUTURE thing. Fossil fuels are running out anyway. EVs are the only answer, right NOW.
........The majority of Climate Scientists are talking about a "tipping point". Everyone that thinks that the US at 7% of new EV sales is going to stop this "tipping point" must believe that ALL these Climate Scientists are just MAKING UP this PROBLEM. Denying a problem does NOT make it go away.

No one said there isn’t a problem, it’s the solution they are proposing that stinks.

It is a financially and material mess that has not been fully vetted and why aren’t we being shown every step, cost, sustainability and practicality of this plan? I want every gritty detail before this country is led down that path. Think it’s impossible to inform the citizenry how they plan to manage the inefficient grid and other monumental costs when we’re broke?

Please also address the zero emissions plan from China, N Korea, India, Africa and other large contributors to the climate damage.

[Aces4]

Around the earth, the last 10 or 11 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Lots of people died in the large cities due to OVER-HEATING last summer. This is going on because of humans, too much fossil fuel use, and too much CO2 production. That needs to be STOPPED right NOW! Nuclear fusion and even nuclear energy plants are a FUTURE thing. Fossil fuels are running out anyway. EVs are the only answer, right NOW.
........The majority of Climate Scientists are talking about a "tipping point". Everyone that thinks that the US at 7% of new EV sales is going to stop this "tipping point" must believe that ALL these Climate Scientists are just MAKING UP this PROBLEM. Denying a problem does NOT make it go away.

If it’s a “human” problem and there are too many in this country, I think it was missed in the plans for the “tipping point”.

[MrChip72]

The diesel started off awkwardly with that issue. The Model T had a few problems too. Give it time and issues with battery operated vehicles will be ironed out too. I like the hybrids for that reason.

I've owned only hybrid vehicles since 2009 and still hear misinformed comments about hybrids even after them being around for 30+ years. I've had zero hybrid related problems on any of mine. Had a 2010 model that was still working fine with the original battery when we resold it in 2021 to get a newer model with the latest bells and whistles.

[Fastskiguy]

If, if, if. .
Sorry, not interested in excuses for the EVs just not ready yet. Dinner time.

Definitely not ready for prime time. Although the #1 selling vehicle in the world in 2023 is an EV...

The world's best-selling car: What makes Tesla Model Y so successful? | Global Fleet (https://www.globalfleet.com/en/manufacturers/global/analysis/worlds-best-selling-car-what-makes-tesla-model-y-so-successful?t%5B0%5D=Tesla&t%5B1%5D=EVs&curl=1#:~:text=August%202023%20marks%20a%20unique, globally%20across%20over%20160%20countries).

Joe

[jimjamuser]

No one said there isn’t a problem, it’s the solution they are proposing that stinks.

It is a financially and material mess that has not been fully vetted and why aren’t we being shown every step, cost, sustainability and practicality of this plan? I want every gritty detail before this country is led down that path. Think it’s impossible to inform the citizenry how they plan to manage the inefficient grid and other monumental costs when we’re broke?

Please also address the zero emissions plan from China, N Korea, India, Africa and other large contributors to the climate damage.
India, China, and the US are the largest contributors to Climate Change. China is NOT growing as fast as it has in the past. This could cause them internal problems. I assume that if the US outsourced less manufacturing to China and brought it back to the US or somewhere in the Americas, that we could CONTROL things better for less pollution production. Also, we would then be paying less for total freight costs for goods moving across the Pacific from China to here.
........I don't understand much about India. Only that Russia is their biggest trading partner - they buy Russian raw materials.

[Aces4]

India, China, and the US are the largest contributors to Climate Change. China is NOT growing as fast as it has in the past. This could cause them internal problems. I assume that if the US outsourced less manufacturing to China and brought it back to the US or somewhere in the Americas, that we could CONTROL things better for less pollution production. Also, we would then be paying less for total freight costs for goods moving across the Pacific from China to here.
........I don't understand much about India. Only that Russia is their biggest trading partner - they buy Russian raw materials.

You announced it, no clear plans just money for the electrical investors.

[Aces4]

I've owned only hybrid vehicles since 2009 and still hear misinformed comments about hybrids even after them being around for 30+ years. I've had zero hybrid related problems on any of mine. Had a 2010 model that was still working fine with the original battery when we resold it in 2021 to get a newer model with the latest bells and whistles.

You have a hybrid! What problems should you have? Get back to us if you go all EV in the next few months and then let us know, honestly, and how you’re loving it, the expenses, the costs and the battery life as time goes on.

[coffeebean]

I'm going to assume you do not have an EV. Please confirm yes or no......
After saying that it appears the purpose of this post is to bash something you do not have. Y'all seem to put a lot of effort into hating things you don't have.

All vehicles have diminished capabilities in cold weather. In most states they blend the fuel in the winter and that blend creates less BTUs which gives you poor gas mileage. I have an EV and I can tell you that yes it does not perform as well in the winter as it does in the summer. You made a comment about the vehicles not performing well in the summer. That is not the truth! My EV performs just as good at 90° as it does at 70°. The issues with EV's in the winter amounts to nothing more than a slight inconvenience and no worse than the inconvenience I have with my gas vehicle.

My comments regarding diminished performance from EVs comes directly from what I saw on the news. I don't consider my post bashing, just reporting what I saw on the news. My EV is an electric Yamaha golf cart. My SUV is powered by gasoline.

[Topspinmo]

Sometimes you realize you have zero knowledge or any input so a four letter word is the best you can use. Great info. Maybe next time you can find a 4 letter word and add a 3 letter to make post more interesting

Yawn, yawning, snoozing, how’s that.

[Topspinmo]

You realize people own cars to drive them. All three drive in the same conditions, work 12-24 hour shifts, and none have changing stations. As stated they also can make multiple trips within a few hours, almost always in the crap zero and below weather. Cars live outside of cozy garage much more than in. Soooooooooooo


Tell me hall you can drive ALL Those cars claim to have at same time? Tell we you don’t have to go 10 miles to hospital what you drive?

[Topspinmo]

I've owned only hybrid vehicles since 2009 and still hear misinformed comments about hybrids even after them being around for 30+ years. I've had zero hybrid related problems on any of mine. Had a 2010 model that was still working fine with the original battery when we resold it in 2021 to get a newer model with the latest bells and whistles.

2010 vehicle not really that old. You traded it cause you was worried the BIG expenses was coming and pawned it off on someone else.

[Topspinmo]

If it’s a “human” problem and there are too many in this country, I think it was missed in the plans for the “tipping point”.

It tipped about 15 years go.

[Topspinmo]

Just like some on this board only talk about the cons and not the pros. One difference is they use first-hand reports rather than rumor and propaganda and speculation.

Point to some articles that talk about all the EVs being towed during that particular event.

Point to some articles about wind farms going offline due to cold weather.


So that why EV production tanking? People who wanted EVs and brought them the rest of us don’t want them yet Till they go further, reduce charge times, and become affordable for masses. The upper crust is not them masses.

[Fastskiguy]

So that why EV production tanking? People who wanted EVs and brought them the rest of us don’t want them yet Till they go further, reduce charge times, and become affordable for masses. The upper crust is not them masses.

Rivian and Tesla are doing well. My take is the big 3 are just keeping their heads firmly planted in the sand, hoping they can sell a few more oversized pickups to guys going to the store for a bottle of milk next year. But over time I think they will get their acts together. The switch to the North American standard charging plug is a massive step forward for them.

[asianthree]

Tell me hall you can drive ALL Those cars claim to have at same time? Tell we you don’t have to go 10 miles to hospital what you drive?

You might want to clean up your post….words don’t make sense, so will improvise.
My original post all THREE kids have EV, where they live, and they all drive less than 10 miles to work.

One who has zero knowledge of Surgical Physicians, Staff, little help to understand. You Have to be with a Window of drive time to the facility. We are 3 generations that “Call” is our lives. Depending on Level of facility (Level1 onsite at all times…Level2 15-30 minutes Level 3 30-45 minutes) One is L-1 onsite 24/7 for 7 days sometimes longer.
2 are L-2 6.8miles. Last is L-2 8.8. Every facility has different values but usually very close.

So yep all EVs one way drive to work is less than 10 miles. All are in what is considered as out of city with Two facilities 8 miles apart that are trauma

[jimjamuser]

If it’s a “human” problem and there are too many in this country, I think it was missed in the plans for the “tipping point”.
The graph of increasing human population in the last 20 years or so looks about identical to the HEAT rise on Earth. And the increased CO2 from factories and automobile EXHAUST pipes that ends up in the upper atmosphere and in coral reefs is the MECHANISM by which the increased population acts against itself (humans).
.........One only needs to do a "smell test" as the ICE golf carts drive by to observe the CO2 problem. Hint - the CO2 does NOT fall harmlessly to the ground.
........Electric vehicles may NOT be a PERFECT SOLUTION that pleases everyone, but it is a partial solution that is available today not in the future.
.........The California law banning NEW ICE vehicles may be too little too late. That is where the "tipping point" comes into play. And that is NOT well understood.

[jimjamuser]

Rivian and Tesla are doing well. My take is the big 3 are just keeping their heads firmly planted in the sand, hoping they can sell a few more oversized pickups to guys going to the store for a bottle of milk next year. But over time I think they will get their acts together. The switch to the North American standard charging plug is a massive step forward for them.
EVs will make more design progress and more charging stations will be available worldwide as more and more people buy them. The EV motors use about 1/3 the number of parts as an IC engine - that means more inherent reliability - EV motors travel SMOOTHLY in a circle - IC engines depend on up and down motion of pistons and sparks to cause chemical explosions. EVs accelerate better and brake better than ICE vehicles due to a lower center of gravity.
.......In general, EVs are a better potential product and will HELP to stop an overheating EARTH. That IS your basic WIN-WIN.

[Aces4]

EVs will make more design progress and more charging stations will be available worldwide as more and more people buy them. The EV motors use about 1/3 the number of parts as an IC engine - that means more inherent reliability - EV motors travel SMOOTHLY in a circle - IC engines depend on up and down motion of pistons and sparks to cause chemical explosions. EVs accelerate better and brake better than ICE vehicles due to a lower center of gravity.
.......In general, EVs are a better potential product and will HELP to stop an overheating EARTH. That IS your basic WIN-WIN.

And that’s why there are so many accidents in EVS.

[Aces4]

The graph of increasing human population in the last 20 years or so looks about identical to the HEAT rise on Earth. And the increased CO2 from factories and automobile EXHAUST pipes that ends up in the upper atmosphere and in coral reefs is the MECHANISM by which the increased population acts against itself (humans).
.........One only needs to do a "smell test" as the ICE golf carts drive by to observe the CO2 problem. Hint - the CO2 does NOT fall harmlessly to the ground.
........Electric vehicles may NOT be a PERFECT SOLUTION that pleases everyone, but it is a partial solution that is available today not in the future.
.........The California law banning NEW ICE vehicles may be too little too late. That is where the "tipping point" comes into play. And that is NOT well understood.

That is the problem.. a partial solution that pads the pockets of the investors. This is not being done on behalf of this country. That’s the truth but there are so many who have fallen for, hook line and sinker.

While people are distracted only by global warming, there are far greater threats to this nation that can undo it before global warming ever begins to harm us.

I’m done with this, one can preach all they want about mandatory EVS. At this rate, pollution is last on the list for what may becoming.

[Aces4]

You might want to clean up your post….words don’t make sense, so will improvise.
My original post all THREE kids have EV, where they live, and they all drive less than 10 miles to work.

One who has zero knowledge of Surgical Physicians, Staff, little help to understand. You Have to be with a Window of drive time to the facility. We are 3 generations that “Call” is our lives. Depending on Level of facility (Level1 onsite at all times…Level2 15-30 minutes Level 3 30-45 minutes) One is L-1 onsite 24/7 for 7 days sometimes longer.
2 are L-2 6.8miles. Last is L-2 8.8. Every facility has different values but usually very close.

So yep all EVs one way drive to work is less than 10 miles. All are in what is considered as out of city with Two facilities 8 miles apart that are trauma

So you all could be driving electric golf carts to work if lanes are provided and make a smaller environmental impact?

[Aces4]

EVs will make more design progress and more charging stations will be available worldwide as more and more people buy them. The EV motors use about 1/3 the number of parts as an IC engine - that means more inherent reliability - EV motors travel SMOOTHLY in a circle - IC engines depend on up and down motion of pistons and sparks to cause chemical explosions. EVs accelerate better and brake better than ICE vehicles due to a lower center of gravity.
.......In general, EVs are a better potential product and will HELP to stop an overheating EARTH. That IS your basic WIN-WIN.

There’ an article in engineering.com titled:
Everyone Wants EVs, But Where Will the Metals Come From?

This is why I too want pollution addressed by not by buying a pig in a poke!

[asianthree]

So you all could be driving electric golf carts to work if lanes are provided and make a smaller environmental impact?

Sure as long as it’s you bleeding out, and staff says we have to wait until the call team drives their 20mph golf cart 8 miles. So you missed the point you have 15-30 minutes to be at the scrub sink read to go.

[asianthree]

So you all could be driving electric golf carts to work if lanes are provided and make a smaller environmental impact?

Sure as long as it’s you bleeding out, and staff says we have to wait until the call team drives their 20mph golf cart 8 miles. So you missed the point you have 15-30 minutes to be at the scrub sink read to go. One 24 hour shift, the rest call, is pretty common especially with DINKs.

So no golf cart for trauma units wouldn’t work

[Aces4]

Sure as long as it’s you bleeding out, and staff says we have to wait until the call team drives their 20mph golf cart 8 miles. So you missed the point you have 15-30 minutes to be at the scrub sink read to go. One 24 hour shift, the rest call, is pretty common especially with DINKs.

So no golf cart for trauma units wouldn’t work


Nor would a stalled out EV from the cold work. You never know…

[Bill14564]

Nor would a stalled out EV from the cold work. You never know…

Actually, I think after several years of experience he would know… far better than someone with no first-hand experience at all.

[Aces4]

Actually, I think after several years of experience he would know… far better than someone with no first-hand experience at all.

I’ve seen enough firsts in my life not to be naive.:shrug:

[Bill14564]

I’ve seen enough firsts in my life not to be naive.:shrug:

And some are still convinced they will one day see a unicorn

[Aces4]

And some are still convinced they will one day see a unicorn

You’re talking about the EV unicorn?

Did you take the time to read the report I mentioned earlier, “Everyone Wants EVs, But Where Will the Metals Come From?

If you want to save the planet, you may want to look at alternatives to EVs.

[Bill14564]

You’re talking about the EV unicorn?

Did you take the time to read the report I mentioned earlier, “Everyone Wants EVs, But Where Will the Metals Come From?

If you want to save the planet, you may want to look at alternatives to EVs.

Keep throwing the spaghetti against the wall and hoping something sticks.

[Aces4]

Keep throwing the spaghetti against the wall and hoping something sticks.

I think you may want to use a better process for your critical thinking, spaghetti won’t cut it.

BTW, that is an engineering website providing that article’s information.

[Bill14564]

I think you may want to use a better process for your critical thinking, spaghetti won’t cut it.

BTW, that is an engineering website providing that article’s information.

Just getting tired of playing whack-a-mole.

[Aces4]

Just getting tired of playing whack-a-mole.

Then don’t, there’s a lot of critical information out there and it can be overwhelming for some. People can pace their research.

[Bill14564]

Then don’t, there’s a lot of critical information out there and it can be overwhelming for some. People can pace their research.

Unfounded criticism is not the same as critical information. You misinterpreted your Norway article and you put too much (any) weight on an article that is pure speculation. You've heard from people who actually drive EVs but discard their experience in favor of rumors. It's important to be able to recognize the difference between honest research and confirmation bias.

[Aces4]

Unfounded criticism is not the same as critical information. You misinterpreted your Norway article and you put too much (any) weight on an article that is pure speculation. You've heard from people who actually drive EVs but discard their experience in favor of rumors. It's important to be able to recognize the difference between honest research and confirmation bias.

Do you ever think perhaps EVS are not going to save this climate?

You totally refute any information that doesn’t align with your philosophies, they are all wrong and your baseless sentiments are right.

From the mouth of a family relation, she does not like her EV, particularly in a cold climate, but tells everyone it was a great decision. That’s called ego, not science.

BTW, I have not discounted hybrids but I would imagine they wouldn’t provide enough wealth for the investors.