Havana

[clekr]

Played Kenya/Hemingway today. I can't decide if they plan to bring in bulldozers or goats. They have obviously stop maintaining it to any golf course standard.

[Laker14]

Played Kenya/Hemingway today. I can't decide if they plan to bring in bulldozers or goats. They have obviously stop maintaining it to any golf course standard.

That place had gotten so bad that my group just stopped going there altogether. I'm not here May-September, but the guys told me that over the summer the conditions improved dramatically.
We played it a few times in the autumn and it wasn't bad. It was way better than I had ever seen it.
I haven't been on it since before Christmas.

I can't figure out why some of the championship courses are in decent shape even through the winter months, and some are terrible. I'm hearing from multiple sources that Palmer is a mess. We played Laurel Valley when it first reopened and it was good, but I'm hearing it's awful right now.

I could blame the season's combination of poor growing conditions and overplay, but why some courses are much better than others is a complete mystery. Same climate, same amount of play. Totally different conditions.

Mystifying.

[BrianL99]

. I'm hearing from multiple sources that Palmer is a mess. We played Laurel Valley when it first reopened and it was good, but I'm hearing it's awful right now.

I could blame the season's combination of poor growing conditions and overplay, but why some courses are much better than others is a complete mystery. Same climate, same amount of play. Totally different conditions.

Mystifying.

Palmer is a disaster, especially considering the both Laurel & Riley Grove have been "renovated" over the last 18 months.

Part of the issue, is supposedly the different water withdrawal permits. North of 466 (Glenview/OBH/Lopez) are operating under a different permit, that allows them to use more water.

In some respects, that's a red herring. Water isn't the only thing that makes a golf course green. I've managed golf courses under strict water withdrawal provisions and it simply means you have to use other methods to keep your golf course is good condition (read that, as more expensive measures).

Those that suggest it's "just the winter months" are again, making excuses. There's nothing much different about this winter, than any other winter. Golf courses are designed to operate in the wide variety of weather they're likely to expect, given the climate they're located in.

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

[txfan]

And yet they charge full price as if these are true country clubs.

There isn't much incentive to keep them up when they have a captive audience due to the convenience of being golf cart-accessible inside the bubble.

[Laker14]

And yet they charge full price as if these are true country clubs.

There isn't much incentive to keep them up when they have a captive audience due to the convenience of being golf cart-accessible inside the bubble.

What it costs, per round, to play these courses, is not close to what it costs to play at a well-kept private course.

[BrianL99]

What it costs, per round, to play these courses, is not close to what it costs to play at a well-kept private course.

Comparing a Private Country Club to a golf course in The Villages, is like comparing The Kansas City Chiefs, to a high school football team.

& if you play golf 2-3 times per week, your per round cost at most country clubs, would be less than you'd pay to play TV "Championship" courses.

[waynet]

Evans Praire is also in awful condition. Both of the groups I play with took it off of our rotation. I feel bad for the bartenders and wait staff. After golf we tend to spend a good amount of money and tip very well. Maybe if all the large groups also took evans off their rotation someone would take notice

[BrianL99]

Evans Praire is also in awful condition. Both of the groups I play with took it off of our rotation. I feel bad for the bartenders and wait staff. After golf we tend to spend a good amount of money and tip very well. Maybe if all the large groups also took evans off their rotation someone would take notice


Based on my experience and what I read on here, Evans Prairie, Havana, Palmer, Belle Glade, Cane Garden & Hacienda, should be off everyone's rotation.

Which would lead to a scarcity of Tee Times at Mallory, Glenview, TDS & Lopez (no one cares about Southern Oaks).

It's a lose - lose situation.

[John Mayes]

Based on my experience and what I read on here, Evans Prairie, Havana, Palmer, Belle Glade, Cane Garden & Hacienda, should be off everyone's rotation.

Which would lead to a scarcity of Tee Times at Mallory, Glenview, TDS & Lopez (no one cares about Southern Oaks).

It's a lose - lose situation.

I’m not sure it’s accurate to say “no one cares about Southern Oaks”. Their tee sheet is pretty full each day unless the weather is bad.

[BrianL99]

I’m not sure it’s accurate to say “no one cares about Southern Oaks”. Their tee sheet is pretty full each day unless the weather is bad.

I suppose some folks who live in the southern area care about it, as they don't have many options.

[John Mayes]

I suppose some folks who live in the southern area care about it, as they don't have many options.

That’s pretty dismissive. The course gets lots of participants from all parts of TV’s. I get that you don’t care for the course but that opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by most.

[BrianL99]

That’s pretty dismissive. The course gets lots of participants from all parts of TV’s. I get that you don’t care for the course but that opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by most.

It's not much of a golf course, but it was brilliant marketing by TV.

"Who will want to live next to the highway?"

"Probably no one."

"Hey wait, I have a great idea!"

"Lets stick some flags into the ground next to the highway, call it a golf course and charge people extra to live next to it!"

I played it once, when it first opened. Shot 75 from the Golds. Not because of talent, but because it's ridiculously easy and if you know how to hit a stinger ... the ball will roll & run for 100 yards.

[John Mayes]

It's not much of a golf course, but it was brilliant marketing by TV.

"Who will want to live next to the highway?"

"Probably no one."

"Hey wait, I have a great idea!"

"Lets stick some flags into the ground next to the highway, call it a golf course and charge people extra to live next to it!"

I played it once, when it first opened. Shot 75 from the Golds. Not because of talent, but because it's ridiculously easy and if you know how to hit a stinger ... the ball will roll & run for 100 yards.

Oh well……to each their own.

[Bogie Shooter]

That’s pretty dismissive. The course gets lots of participants from all parts of TV’s. I get that you don’t care for the course but that opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by most.

👍//////

[wamley]

We played Hemingway to Kilimanjaro yesterday and it's interesting how many greens they roll the little grass there is into the mud on the greens. Makes for a very unpredictable putt speed from green to green at least. Tough to pay $74 for these conditions and use my own golf cart too. Easily equals over $100pp on a private course that have great greens.

[UpNorth]

We played Hemingway to Kilimanjaro yesterday and it's interesting how many greens they roll the little grass there is into the mud on the greens. Makes for a very unpredictable putt speed from green to green at least. Tough to pay $74 for these conditions and use my own golf cart too. Easily equals over $100pp on a private course that have great greens.

Played a couple of well designed championship courses just outside The Villages recently. Good conditions, with 18 amazing, healthy greens on each that would put any Villages championship course to shame. Paid $26 - $29 per round, cart included.

[Pairadocs]

Palmer is a disaster, especially considering the both Laurel & Riley Grove have been "renovated" over the last 18 months.

Part of the issue, is supposedly the different water withdrawal permits. North of 466 (Glenview/OBH/Lopez) are operating under a different permit, that allows them to use more water.

In some respects, that's a red herring. Water isn't the only thing that makes a golf course green. I've managed golf courses under strict water withdrawal provisions and it simply means you have to use other methods to keep your golf course is good condition (read that, as more expensive measures).

Those that suggest it's "just the winter months" are again, making excuses. There's nothing much different about this winter, than any other winter. Golf courses are designed to operate in the wide variety of weather they're likely to expect, given the climate they're located in.

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

Hummm, sounds like you might be getting very close (too close ?) to the REAL reasons concerning conditions, 10, 15, years ago, sure there have always been a few people that are never satisfied, but in the last, say, 10 years, the grips and complaints have grown exponentially. Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees" just can't keep up with maintenance, or possible judicious use of available funds is not happening ? But, "somthin' wrong there somewhere"

[golfing eagles]

Hummm, sounds like you might be getting very close (too close ?) to the REAL reasons concerning conditions, 10, 15, years ago, sure there have always been a few people that are never satisfied, but in the last, say, 10 years, the grips and complaints have grown exponentially. Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees" just can't keep up with maintenance, or possible judicious use of available funds is not happening ? But, "somthin' wrong there somewhere"

Championship courses don't get a penny from amenity fees. But you may have hit the nail on the head---money. Probably that and subcontracting to inept maintenance companies.

[bdeminico]

Palmer is a disaster, especially considering the both Laurel & Riley Grove have been "renovated" over the last 18 months.

Part of the issue, is supposedly the different water withdrawal permits. North of 466 (Glenview/OBH/Lopez) are operating under a different permit, that allows them to use more water.

In some respects, that's a red herring. Water isn't the only thing that makes a golf course green. I've managed golf courses under strict water withdrawal provisions and it simply means you have to use other methods to keep your golf course is good condition (read that, as more expensive measures).

Those that suggest it's "just the winter months" are again, making excuses. There's nothing much different about this winter, than any other winter. Golf courses are designed to operate in the wide variety of weather they're likely to expect, given the climate they're located in.

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

Pretty strong words you use. I agree the course's greens are in poor condition, but my question to you is, were you the Golf Course Manager or the USGA certified Golf Course Superintendent? If you answered yes to the Superintendent, than you must be right. If you were the Manager, you should do more homework before calling people idiots or dopes. There is WAY MORE to it besides water.

[BrianL99]

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?


Pretty strong words you use. I agree the course's greens are in poor condition, but my question to you is, were you the Golf Course Manager or the USGA certified Golf Course Superintendent? If you answered yes to the Superintendent, than you must be right. If you were the Manager, you should do more homework before calling people idiots or dopes. There is WAY MORE to it besides water.

Which is exactly what I said. There's way more to it, than simply water. There are ways to deal with less than optimal water availability conditions.

The majority of Villages Championship Courses, are in abysmal condition. One need only play GlenView or TDS (& possibly Lopez, but I don't play it) to see the difference in turf management practices from course to course.

Same weather everywhere. The 2 variables are water availability and competency of staff and/or budget.

Look at the issues logically. The conditions at the courses other than GlenView & TDS, have deteriorate every year I've been here and according to most posters, conditions have been declining for at least the last 5-6 years. The weather hasn't significantly changed over the last 5-10 years, so what's left to blame it on?

Turf management practices is the only thing I can think of. One could blame the deterioration of conditions on "increased play", but inherent with increased play, is increased revenue. You get more play, you get more money to maintain the turf ... unless of course, you take all that increased revenue as profits and don't increase your turf maintenance budget.

[vinnytalk]

Played Kenya/Hemingway today. I can't decide if they plan to bring in bulldozers or goats. They have obviously stop maintaining it to any golf course standard.

The same with almost every couse here in the Villages, whoever is in charge should be fired , they have no knowledge of maintaining golf courses, the quality of the landscapers are deplorable.

[kkingston57]

Evans Praire is also in awful condition. Both of the groups I play with took it off of our rotation. I feel bad for the bartenders and wait staff. After golf we tend to spend a good amount of money and tip very well. Maybe if all the large groups also took evans off their rotation someone would take notice

To make matters worse, the restaurants are separate businesses and bet they cannot exert any pressure on the owners of the golf course

[Papa_lecki]

Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees"

Amenity Fees have nothing to do with Championship Courses. They are owner by and invested by the developer.

Executives, Yes.

[kkingston57]

Played a couple of well designed championship courses just outside The Villages recently. Good conditions, with 18 amazing, healthy greens on each that would put any Villages championship course to shame. Paid $26 - $29 per round, cart included.

A lot of people would like to know which courses you are referring to. Have seen < $40 but not $26-29 a round.

[miclray]

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

[Steve]

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

All of these negative comments about the condition of The Villages courses this winter just reinforces my group's decision to bypass them completely and play outside TV for less than half the price. With so many options such as Golf Now and GroupGolfer there are a number of ways to play inexpensive golf at courses that are very different from the cookie cutter designs you get here. During the summer we MAY play a Villages course once a week and outside TV the other two days we play. But with the constant increase in greens fees which has no end in sight we may drop that one day, as well.

[BrianL99]

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

The advantage, is convenience .... you can drive your own cart to all the courses and there are plenty of courses to choose from.

Conditions are not good. "Pristine" would be an over-statement of gargantuan proportions.

[mrf0151]

Comparing a Private Country Club to a golf course in The Villages, is like comparing The Kansas City Chiefs, to a high school football team.

& if you play golf 2-3 times per week, your per round cost at most country clubs, would be less than you'd pay to play TV "Championship" courses.

Okay then why is it that we can play outside The Villages on many courses that charge much less, and those course conditions are much better than Villages courses?

[BrianL99]

Comparing a Private Country Club to a golf course in The Villages, is like comparing The Kansas City Chiefs, to a high school football team.

& if you play golf 2-3 times per week, your per round cost at most country clubs, would be less than you'd pay to play TV "Championship" courses.

Okay then why is it that we can play outside The Villages on many courses that charge much less, and those course conditions are much better than Villages courses?


I fail to see the nexus, but "outside the Villages" golf courses, don't enjoy a the near monopoly Village courses have. Residents are a captive audience ... the convenience of driving your cart to the golf course.

[sowilts]

That’s pretty dismissive. The course gets lots of participants from all parts of TV’s. I get that you don’t care for the course but that opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by most.
Southern Oaks is full most of the time. Still have the best greens. Front nine is different than the back nine. Br careful crossing the street. Barriers are too far away. Don’t know why there is no tunnel access.

[wamley]

I don't know about the water withdrawal, but I can tell you the soil that many of the greens sit on is the worst. Hit a ball onto #1 at Cherry Hill and the black muddy soil sticks to the ball and you can't just wipe it off, you need to wash it. Even after that the ball looks dirty. Almost as if it has ink on it. Others have the same issue.

[UpNorth]

[QUOTE=BrianL99;2299722]The advantage, is convenience .... you can drive your own cart to all the courses and there are plenty of courses to choose from.

More of an advantage to the championship course owners, who don't have to maintain a fleet of carts and provide you with one. IMO, I think they should be giving you a $25 discount off of those high greens fees if you bring your own cart.

[BrianL99]

[QUOTE=BrianL99;2299722]The advantage, is convenience .... you can drive your own cart to all the courses and there are plenty of courses to choose from.

More of an advantage to the championship course owners, who don't have to maintain a fleet of carts and provide you with one. IMO, I think they should be giving you a $25 discount off of those high greens fees if you bring your own cart.

I'd like to be George Clooney, but I've sort of given up, wishing for the impossible.

[kkingston57]

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

Would love to know of a pristine golf course for $74. Only time I have seen this is in a very hot place or very cold place.

[UpNorth]

A lot of people would like to know which courses you are referring to. Have seen < $40 but not $26-29 a round.

Go online, book early on a deal, and pay in advance. Join a program like Golf Pass+ to get additional discounts (pays for itself almost immediately). Read the course reviews to check the conditions. Have not paid more than $30 for well designed championship courses outside The Villages since last November.