Financial penalty for missing exec tee time during high season?

[Papa_lecki]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?

[rustyp]

I think 2400 cancellation points (20 golfer cancel X 40 execs X 3 cancellation points) is adequate. What would you do with golfers that have a legitimate reason for cancellation the day of their tee time ? Who gets to police that and how ? Great idea - give a HOA ( loose term) more authority. I live here for the lifestyle not controversy. In reality how many times per year have you got shut out for a request providing you are not in a gang of 12 16 20 plus? If one really wanted to impact the shutouts - limit tee times to only a foursome request during Jan - March.

[Papa_lecki]

What would you do with golfers that have a legitimate reason for cancellation the day of their tee time ?
Call the starter shack.
If you’re in the hospital, you’re discharge papers relieve you of your debt.

[Papa_lecki]

I think 2400 cancellation points (20 golfer cancel X 40 execs X 3 cancellation points) is adequate.

Apparently cancellation points are not a deterrent.

[MrChip72]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.


I don't necessarily agree with a financial punishment but maybe not let them book another timeslot for 7 days would suffice.

I was definitely getting irritated during the last month when people were clearly being "no shows" due to suboptimal weather on some days.

[Pairadocs]

I think 2400 cancellation points (20 golfer cancel X 40 execs X 3 cancellation points) is adequate. What would you do with golfers that have a legitimate reason for cancellation the day of their tee time ? Who gets to police that and how ? Great idea - give a HOA ( loose term) more authority. I live here for the lifestyle not controversy. In reality how many times per year have you got shut out for a request providing you are not in a gang of 12 16 20 plus? If one really wanted to impact the shutouts - limit tee times to only a foursome request during Jan - March.

Thank you for pointing out what a "slippery slop" or "Pandora's box" that idea is. I have no idea, but it has passed my mind that many proposed "solutions" (and I'm talking in GENERAL now, not this particular situation and location) are (the solutions proposed I mean) often conceived in anger and therefore are seldom analyzed for the potential of negative results compared to the possible gains... in other words, lack of contingency thinking ? I can hear it now, a person or couple of very limited retirement income incurs a fine (as you said, so many legitimate reasons, especially at this age) and can't pay it that month. Inevitably the more "elite" among our residents will begin harping about how if someone can not afford a fine, then they should make sure they never miss a tee time, or, GET OUT of the villages (we all know that type).

[Pairadocs]

I don't necessarily agree with a financial punishment but maybe not let them book another timeslot for 7 days would suffice.

I was definitely getting irritated during the last month when people were clearly being "no shows" due to suboptimal weather on some days.

Well that certainly is a much more logical "punishment" than imposing monetary "fines" in this type of senior community. I'd even say as many as ten days of revoking the privilege of making advanced reservations would not be unreasonable. But the trouble with this type of thing is it would require an entire plan for "refereeing and reviewing individual cases; like a person who missed the tee time because they passed out due to blood sugar and were taken to ER, but after treatment and insulin adjustment, was perfectly fine to return to normal activities. Should that person loose his/her privilege or be fined ? What about the guy to runs to help a neighbor with an emergency ? Some might say "one offs", but in a community this large, IMO it could take full time employees to review and rule on all the situations that could arise ! Just bar offenders from the reservation system for a time, next "offense" automatically add 2 additional days, 3 offenses, 2 MORE days and so on. Highly unlikely an individual would have 3 or 4 legitimate "emergencies" in a month or two ? If there are any open times, offenders can just take a chance on showing up and finding one but blocked out of reservation system automatically for the prescribed "penalty" time.

[fishon]

The system is fine the way it is.

[rustyp]

Call the starter shack.
If you’re in the hospital, you’re discharge papers relieve you of your debt.

I stopped to help a little old lady change a flat tire and missed my tee rime. Will a note from her suffice ?

[Marathon Man]

No no and no. Just how do you propose to collect the money from those who refuse to pay? No shows at golf courses have been an issue from the days of the Scots. No reason to think that we can solve it.

[Dusty_Star]

This plan would disadvantage those with less money & advantage those with more money. Additionally, it would tend to advantage younger retirees, or almost retirees & disadvantage older retirees. Due to inflation generally younger retirees are collecting more social security & some almost retirees are still currently working. Yes, I know there are some 'rich' retirees, they would be advantaged in sentence 1.
Additionally younger retirees who might vote for a plan such as this, due to having more disposable income & less patience, would eventually be disadvantaged themselves, as their healthcare costs rise & their income no longer keeps up with inflation, as the fees imposed to today would surely rise in the future as all fees do.

[rustyp]

No no and no. Just how do you propose to collect the money from those who refuse to pay? No shows at golf courses have been an issue from the days of the Scots. No reason to think that we can solve it.

Give a HOA more authority and they will put a lien on your house for failure to pay - brilliant!

[golfing eagles]

Well that certainly is a much more logical "punishment" than imposing monetary "fines" in this type of senior community. I'd even say as many as ten days of revoking the privilege of making advanced reservations would not be unreasonable. But the trouble with this type of thing is it would require an entire plan for "refereeing and reviewing individual cases; like a person who missed the tee time because they passed out due to blood sugar and were taken to ER, but after treatment and insulin adjustment, was perfectly fine to return to normal activities. Should that person loose his/her privilege or be fined ? What about the guy to runs to help a neighbor with an emergency ? Some might say "one offs", but in a community this large, IMO it could take full time employees to review and rule on all the situations that could arise ! Just bar offenders from the reservation system for a time, next "offense" automatically add 2 additional days, 3 offenses, 2 MORE days and so on. Highly unlikely an individual would have 3 or 4 legitimate "emergencies" in a month or two ? If there are any open times, offenders can just take a chance on showing up and finding one but blocked out of reservation system automatically for the prescribed "penalty" time.

By the time the "exceptions" are reviewed, the 7 or 10 day penalty will have long expired.

[golfing eagles]

This plan would disadvantage those with less money & advantage those with more money. Additionally, it would tend to advantage younger retirees, or almost retirees & disadvantage older retirees. Due to inflation generally younger retirees are collecting more social security & some almost retirees are still currently working. Yes, I know there are some 'rich' retirees, they would be advantaged in sentence 1.
Additionally younger retirees who might vote for a plan such as this, due to having more disposable income & less patience, would eventually be disadvantaged themselves, as their healthcare costs rise & their income no longer keeps up with inflation, as the fees imposed to today would surely rise in the future as all fees do.

I don't favor a "fine' either, but as to the reason posted, so what????
Some people can afford filet mignon, others hamburger
Some live in a mansion, some in a trailer
Some drive a Rolls Royce, others take the bus

What's the point? Turn our great country into another failed experiment in an "everybody equal" society?

Full disclosure---I don't have a mansion, eat a lot of hamburger and drive a Toyota :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bay Kid]

It is not the system it is the golfer. If you can't play call on the day of tee time or cancel the day before if you know. Please don't involve more government style rules.

[golfing eagles]

It is not the system it is the golfer. If you can't play call on the day of tee time or cancel the day before if you know. Please don't involve more government style rules.

Of course. But I think the subject of this thread is what to do with those golfers that are habitual "no-shows"

[ThirdOfFive]

I don't think a financial penalty would A) be implemented and B) do very little good if it were.

But...how about some inventiveness? Here are some ideas designed to kill two (or more) birds with one stone, so to speak. After "X" number of missed tee times in "X" amount of time:

1: Have the miscreant do "X" number of hours of Community Golf Service. A first offender might be issued a ball mark repair tool and sent out to repair ball marks on selected courses (walking, of course....no "rides" allowed). Recidivists? Up the ante. A #2 shovel and a wheelbarrow full of sand to repair tire marks on fairways made by negligent golfers. And so on. No more tee times until the Community Golf Service debt is paid in full, then the clock resets to zero. Of course, you could buy your way out...say $20 an hour for the assigned time of "service" issued.

2: Issue said miscreant a green shirt with a huge scarlet letter on the front and back denoting his/her sin, where he or she gets to stand (or sit) by the starter shack of his/her favorite course for a certain amount of time. The letter "A", of course, has already been taken, so that's out.

3: Post names of habitual offenders in VERY LARGE LETTERS on those message boards near the starter shack of the execs, where they remain posted for, say, six months. Should be red, of course.

:)

[Keefelane66]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?
It may have been ONE executive course would not affect the remaining 39. Exaggerate much.

[golfing eagles]

I don't think a financial penalty would A) be implemented and B) do very little good if it were.

But...how about some inventiveness? Here are some ideas designed to kill two (or more) birds with one stone, so to speak. After "X" number of missed tee times in "X" amount of time:

1: Have the miscreant do "X" number of hours of Community Golf Service. A first offender might be issued a ball mark repair tool and sent out to repair ball marks on selected courses (walking, of course....no "rides" allowed). Recidivists? Up the ante. A #2 shovel and a wheelbarrow full of sand to repair tire marks on fairways made by negligent golfers. And so on. No more tee times until the Community Golf Service debt is paid in full, then the clock resets to zero. Of course, you could buy your way out...say $20 an hour for the assigned time of "service" issued.

2: Issue said miscreant a green shirt with a huge scarlet letter on the front and back denoting his/her sin, where he or she gets to stand (or sit) by the starter shack of his/her favorite course for a certain amount of time. The letter "A", of course, has already been taken, so that's out.

3: Post names of habitual offenders in VERY LARGE LETTERS on those message boards near the starter shack of the execs, where they remain posted for, say, six months. Should be red, of course.

:)

You'd have an "easier" time collecting a fine :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

Points for canceling t times on short notice during busy season should not expire in a week, they should last until June first, when the Villages has determined slow season officially begins. I addition, each subsequent time one cancels, the allotted number of cancellation points should grow exponentially. That would be a much stronger incentive to not book t times and easily bug out with little to no recourse.

[simplesimonsaid]

Next time the offender plays, starter can pick any two clubs from the player's bag, and break them.

[dewilson58]

But the concept?

Right after ToTV implements a financial penalty.

:evil6:

[Pugchief]

Points for canceling t times on short notice during busy season should not expire in a week, they should last until June first, when the Villages has determined slow season officially begins.
So if you miss once you are banned for months? Ridiculous.


I addition, each subsequent time one cancels, the allotted number of cancellation points should grow exponentially. That would be a much stronger incentive to not book t times and easily bug out with little to no recourse.
OTOH, this is an excellent idea.

[kkingston57]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?

NO! Bet that day it was rainy and/or very cold and did not affect anyone.

[Papa_lecki]

Next time the offender plays, starter can pick any two clubs from the player's bag, and break them.

That might help some golfers.

[maggie1]

It has become increasingly difficult to book a tee time for our foursome, which I blame on groups who put in blocks of tee times fully knowing that a portion of their group will not show up. I don't believe fining individuals is a workable solution for reasons too numerous to mention; however, a previous post mentioned suspension of privileges for a period of time, and I support this,

Thevillages.net could easily modify their website to maintain a count of an individual's missed tee times. If a player fails to show, or call in he/she receives three points. If they fail to show on their next date, then the points accumulate to six thus resulting in a predetermined suspension period, which would show up on the computers at the course check-in. "Sorry pal, but you can't play for the next seven, ten, two weeks, etc".

I believe there should be consequences for bad behavior. As my daddy once said " A significant emotional event changes behavior". At some point, people will get the word and stop their foolishness........perhaps.

[Dusty_Star]

I don't favor a "fine' either, but as to the reason posted, so what????
Some people can afford filet mignon, others hamburger
Some live in a mansion, some in a trailer
Some drive a Rolls Royce, others take the bus

What's the point? Turn our great country into another failed experiment in an "everybody equal" society?

Full disclosure---I don't have a mansion, eat a lot of hamburger and drive a Toyota :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

What you say is true. I can't dispute it. My point is that a financial penalty would discourage more of those with less disposable income, than those with more. The existing system discourages based on something TV golfers want regardless of financial status: tee times.

I think the current system should remain as it is. Equal opportunity discouragement to abuse the system. :icon_wink:

[sowilts]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?
Also would it be possible to have access to all open, cancelled, late tee times on the app? I have called Grey Fox and the phone just rings. Would not be very difficult to put in a few code lines.

[gwenhwalker@yahoo.com]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?
Hope you never wake up sick on a golf day or develop a disorder that causes excessive pain in cold weather

[Ski Bum]

To be clear, I am against no show, no call behaviour. I support a points system as a consequence. But I can't help but notice that if there is a no show ahead of me at the starter shack, I get to go early. Problem solved.

[Parteeinga]

The issue I have seen as a starter is couples getting tee times with two guests. Then, of course, the “guests” can’t make it. The couple get to play by themselves. There are no points assigned for a guest no show.

Golfers that don’t show up for their tee time are assigned points for a no show or cancel. That system works. It is the no show of guests that needs to change.

[LoisR]

Irs good for those who decide to play that day. The real issue is are there open tee times at the end of the day? And the answer is: no, there aren't any open tee times this time of year.

[HORNET]

I think that the tee time points system that The Villages came up with, way before many of you moved here is a very good system. If you don’t show, you get 3 points, and if you cancel before midnight you get 2 points, and if you show up and play you get 1 point on Executive Courses. Go by the rules, and don’t worry about others. I watch my points, been doing it since 2007, and seem to play when and where I want. The Developer has done a great job, just follow the rules!

[fdpaq0580]

The issue I have seen as a starter is couples getting tee times with two guests. Then, of course, the “guests” can’t make it. The couple get to play by themselves. There are no points assigned for a guest no show.

Golfers that don’t show up for their tee time are assigned points for a no show or cancel. That system works. It is the no show of guests that needs to change.

For any group, host is responsible for group. Guests don't show, points for no show go to the host. And, starter can fill any vacancy with available singles or doubles. Make the penalty enough that folks will think twice before trying to cheat the system.

[jimmy o]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?
If 20 people were no shows that means their Request turned into a Reservation. Therefore they wasted 20 slots, or 5 foursome slots not 800. They got penalized points which drops them farther down in queue for next the next week if trying to put in Requests. The TeeTime System works great as it is. You are suggesting a nightmare. Bad weather is a historically legitimate reason to cancel golf.

[snbrafford]

There’s a recent post from a starter, where 20 people did not show up for a tee time, times 40 executives, that’s 800 slots.

What if there was a financial penalty if you do not cancel by midnight the night before?
No need to determine if it’s $25 or $100. But the concept?

I would be curious when the no-shows happened. My wife and I have been no-shows recently in the cold weather or when it's raining etc. We used to call the course when we were not going to make it so someone else might be able to slip into out slot BUT still got assessed a penalty point so why bother calling.

[MrChip72]

Well that certainly is a much more logical "punishment" than imposing monetary "fines" in this type of senior community. I'd even say as many as ten days of revoking the privilege of making advanced reservations would not be unreasonable. But the trouble with this type of thing is it would require an entire plan for "refereeing and reviewing individual cases; like a person who missed the tee time because they passed out due to blood sugar and were taken to ER, but after treatment and insulin adjustment, was perfectly fine to return to normal activities.

Right now if you miss a slot you're given 3 points, maybe a simpler solution would be make it 7 points that would essentially put them at the back of the line for the next 7 days. There seems to be a current system in place that the cancellation points is at the discretion of the starter, so reasonable proof of said emergency should be enough to not be penalized.

[Vermilion Villager]

I cannot find a whole lot of reasons that you would cancel a reservation you know you had at least 24 hours in advance. I can find absolutely no reason why you didn't have the common courtesy to at least call the starter shack and let them know you would not be there. For those that do and yes there are many of them… 6 points and those points stay on the books for 15 days.

[Vermilion Villager]

I would be curious when the no-shows happened. My wife and I have been no-shows recently in the cold weather or when it's raining etc. We used to call the course when we were not going to make it so someone else might be able to slip into out slot BUT still got assessed a penalty point so why bother calling.

So others could get the opportunity to take the slot?????

[fdpaq0580]

So others could get the opportunity to take the slot?????

Yes. Also, simple courtesy to give starters a heads up so they are not looking for you.

[tophcfa]

I would be curious when the no-shows happened. My wife and I have been no-shows recently in the cold weather or when it's raining etc. We used to call the course when we were not going to make it so someone else might be able to slip into out slot BUT still got assessed a penalty point so why bother calling.

Easy answer, common courtesy. It’s not all about yourself.

[Sailr303]

1st - 20 no shows on one course does not equate to 20 for each course just as 2 holes in one at one course does not equate to 80 for all courses!
2nd -If I get diarrhea an hour before my tee time, where do I get a note?
3rd - if I see lightning 30. minutes before my tee time, should I be obligated to play even though the course is not closed?