Golf Courses….

[Seymour Butts]

The problem starts with the outsourcing of the maintenance and the overall upkeep of the greens etc bunkers fairways. Hiring a lawn care service is one of the worst decisions The Villages or districts can do. Down to Earth is one of the worst they try but they are a lawn company, not a golf course mtc crew. Just look at the conditions of the greens south of 466, you can not spray a weed killer on the green and expect to grow grass. Time to hire a company that knows what they’re doing.

Painting the greens green doesn't grow grass…

[Rwirish]

Additional problem is overplay and simply not enough courses. The number of Executive Courses south of 44 are a joke and that includes ones scheduled to be developed.

[kkingston57]

Additional problem is overplay and simply not enough courses. The number of Executive Courses south of 44 are a joke and that includes ones scheduled to be developed.

Agree but there is a distinct difference between a "poor" conditions and overplay. Poor condition=mostly everything brown or dead. Overplay= too many ballmarks, scuffed(people dragging their feet) greens. Most of the problem is lack of money to build and maintain the courses and winter weather

[bobmarc]

Played Cane Garden yesterday...Allamanda greens were terrible. Looked like recently punched, bare spots and lack of grass. Will say Hibiscus was ok. Hate to pay $55 for lousy conditions.

[JMintzer]

Additional problem is overplay and simply not enough courses. The number of Executive Courses south of 44 are a joke and that includes ones scheduled to be developed.

But many posters living down there insist that the "younger, hip people" who are moving there have much less interest in golf... :loco:

[Challenger]

The problem starts with the outsourcing of the maintenance and the overall upkeep of the greens etc bunkers fairways. Hiring a lawn care service is one of the worst decisions The Villages or districts can do. Down to Earth is one of the worst they try but they are a lawn company, not a golf course mtc crew. Just look at the conditions of the greens south of 466, you can not spray a weed killer on the green and expect to grow grass. Time to hire a company that knows what they’re doing.

Painting the greens green doesn't grow grass…

And, the equipment used by the "lawn cutters." does its own kind of damage.

Tire tracks across the greens, grossly uneven cuts, grass clippings left on the greens . newly cut holes rough on edges and uneven.

[JimGuerriere]

Agree but there is a distinct difference between a "poor" conditions and overplay. Poor condition=mostly everything brown or dead. Overplay= too many ballmarks, scuffed(people dragging their feet) greens. Most of the problem is lack of money to build and maintain the courses and winter weather
Where do you get the facts to say it’s lack of money that is the reason for the poor conditions? How is The Villages in a position that it has a lack of money?

[BrianL99]

Where do you get the facts to say it’s lack of money that is the reason for the poor conditions? How is The Villages in a position that it has a lack of money?


Lack of money and lack of willingness to spend money, are night and day apart.

[billethkid]

The problem starts with the outsourcing of the maintenance and the overall upkeep of the greens etc bunkers fairways. Hiring a lawn care service is one of the worst decisions The Villages or districts can do. Down to Earth is one of the worst they try but they are a lawn company, not a golf course mtc crew. Just look at the conditions of the greens south of 466, you can not spray a weed killer on the green and expect to grow grass. Time to hire a company that knows what they’re doing.

Painting the greens green doesn't grow grass…

The real problem well stated.
And keep in mind the lawn company chosen is the low bidder!!
No secret as to what the problem is and who is responsible.......the golf course non-knowledgeables that hire the lowest bid grass cutter.....very easy to fix.

[PaulUnderwood]

In my opinion half the problem is the golf course architect should have larger and less contoured greens. The executive courses are predominantly par threes that way they have more flexibility of pin choices. And as a former employee 75% of the people who play golf down here are not golfers. I also agree that the people working on the courses are just labors driving lawnmowers.

[Rainger99]

Who hires the golf course maintenance workers?
Is it the Villages, the county, the districts, or someone else?

[BrianL99]

[QUOTE=PaulUnderwood;2305998]In my opinion half the problem is the golf course architect should have larger and less contoured greens. /QUOTE]

In most cases, it's exactly the opposite. "Contours" are what makes a Green work and helps drain the water away. Augusta National and Oakmont have some of the most severely contoured greens in professional golf ... also, some of the best greens in the world.

The size of greens are dictated by a number of factors, what kind of shots are they expected to receive, the ability to drain them and budgetary constraints. The cost to build and maintain greens, is exponentially more expensive than fairways or surrounds.

[justjim]

Played Cane Garden yesterday...Allamanda greens were terrible. Looked like recently punched, bare spots and lack of grass. Will say Hibiscus was ok. Hate to pay $55 for lousy conditions.

Lincoln was a wrestler and not one I would want to misquote. .

[Papa_lecki]

Here is my solution

Break the Villages into 4 golf areas

North of 466
466 to 466A
466A to 44
South of 44


Hire a real Golf Course Superintendent and an Assistant for each of the 4 areas. This would be a very attractive job.
It would add $2 million to the payroll, you would make it back by not having to close courses mid seasons, and rounds would increase on championships.

Those 2 have ownership of the conditions.
They can outsource the maintenance, BUT they outsources do what the Superintendent says

The contract is very clear, and can be terminated with very specific conditions.

[justjim]

The problem starts with the outsourcing of the maintenance and the overall upkeep of the greens etc bunkers fairways. Hiring a lawn care service is one of the worst decisions The Villages or districts can do. Down to Earth is one of the worst they try but they are a lawn company, not a golf course mtc crew. Just look at the conditions of the greens south of 466, you can not spray a weed killer on the green and expect to grow grass. Time to hire a company that knows what they’re doing.

Painting the greens green doesn't grow grass…

You could be on to something. The holes on the greens leave a lot to be desired as many are not “set” correctly.

[BrianL99]

Here is my solution

Break the Villages into 4 golf areas

North of 466
466 to 466A
466A to 44
South of 44


Hire a real Golf Course Superintendent and an Assistant for each of the 4 areas. This would be a very attractive job.
It would add $2 million to the payroll, you would make it back by not having to close courses mid seasons, and rounds would increase on championships.

Those 2 have ownership of the conditions.
They can outsource the maintenance, BUT they outsources do what the Superintendent says

The contract is very clear, and can be terminated with very specific conditions.

If you think a superintendent and an assistant could handle all the golf courses in one of your designated areas, you're under-estimating a superintendent's proper role.

The Club I worked for, had 45 holes. 36 first class private golf course holes and 9 holes of public golf. We had a general super who was getting paid over $200,000/year. Each of the courses had their own superintendent who was paid north of $100,000. Each had an assistant & 2 other full-time employees, plus 15-20 seasonal employees. So we had over 40 employees during the season.

We had 2 golf courses on the same property (the public 9, across the street). Maintenance and cultivation practices between the 2 courses, was completely different. Different soils, different kinds of grass, different weather conditions, different needs.

Being a superintendent is a micro-management position. Every course is different, there's no "one size fits all" ... even for different holes on the same golf course.

[Papa_lecki]

If you think a superintendent and an assistant could handle all the golf courses in one of your designated areas, you're under-estimating a superintendent's proper role.

The Club I worked for, had 45 holes. 36 first class private golf course holes and 9 holes of public golf. We had a general super who was getting paid over $200,000/year. Each of the courses had their own superintendent who was paid north of $100,000. Each had an assistant & 2 other full-time employees, plus 15-20 seasonal employees. So we had over 40 employees during the season.

We had 2 golf courses on the same property (the public 9, across the street). Maintenance and cultivation practices between the 2 courses, was completely different. Different soils, different kinds of grass, different weather conditions, different needs.

Being a superintendent is a micro-management position. Every course is different, there's no "one size fits all" ... even for different holes on the same golf course.

I agree, I’m thinking there’s a Villages overseer of each section, each course would have someone overseeing each course, but within the outsourcing firm.

It has to be better than one person overseeing everything.