Fire Rated Attic Stairs

[jrref]

Since I've been living in the Villages and visiting neighbors and friends who live here, I've noticed that some have no attic stairs but just a thin piece of plywood over the access to their attic over the garage. Also, If they do have attic stairs, none or very few are of the fire rated type.

That said, is there a building code here in the the Villages for fire the rating of the garage. For example, the ceiling should be at least 5/8 inch sheetrock, there should be a fire rated garage access door, etc, to delay the spread of fire for I believe 1 hr, in case of a fire in your garage.

Also, the Garage attic is not separated from the living space attic. And I also see some people who have a vent in their garage door and a fan in the garage ceiling that will turn on when the temperature reaches a certain point. This device would probably acceletate the spread of fire and smoke in a fire in the garage I would think.

In doing some research, It appears that there is no building code for this.

Any thoughts or additional information on the matter?

In some ways when I look at the build of a typical home in the Villages, I'm relatively impressed with the engineering that went into many parts of the design but Fire safety, I'm not sure what to think. Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Since I've been living in the Villages and visiting neighbors and friends who live here, I've noticed that some have no attic stairs but just a thin piece of plywood over the access to their attic over the garage. Also, If they do have attic stairs, none or very few are of the fire rated type.

That said, is there a building code here in the the Villages for fire the rating of the garage. For example, the ceiling should be at least 5/8 inch sheetrock, there should be a fire rated garage access door, etc, to delay the spread of fire for I believe 1 hr, in case of a fire in your garage.

Also, the Garage attic is not separated from the living space attic. And I also see some people who have a vent in their garage door and a fan in the garage ceiling that will turn on when the temperature reaches a certain point. This device would probably acceletate the spread of fire and smoke in a fire in the garage I would think.

In doing some research, It appears that there is no building code for this.

Any thoughts or additional information on the matter?

In some ways when I look at the build of a typical home in the Villages, I'm relatively impressed with the engineering that went into many parts of the design but Fire safety, I'm not sure what to think. Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot.

I wonder what Fire Marshall Bill would say before he started a fire:pepper2:

[retiredguy123]

Yes, there is a building code for separation of the garage and the living area. I think it is a one-hour fire rating, and the plywood at the ceiling probably complies with the code. However a non-fire damper ceiling fan that exhausts air into the attic is definitely a code violation. Most of these exhaust fans deliver the air through the roof, not into attic.

[vintageogauge]

If it's a violation I would guess at least half of the homes here would be in violation of the code.

[Altavia]

Pull down ladder in a fire ceiling | Honest Home Inspections (https://www.honesthomeinspections.com/node/128)

Our garage has a drop-down ladder in the ceiling, providing access to a storage area in the attic. When we bought the house, our home inspector informed us that this was a violation of the firewall between the garage and the house. Is there a reasonable way to correct this problem and still retain storage access from the garage? —Gene


Dear Gene,
Wall surfaces that separate a garage from a dwelling are required to comply with one-hour fire-rated construction standards. This requirement is intended to slow the spread of a garage fire into the residential areas of the building. When this firewall does not extend into the attic, that is, when the garage attic is not separated from the house attic, then the garage ceiling becomes part of the required garage firewall. Homeowners, typically unaware of such requirements, often violate this fire separation by installing a folding ladder as an attic access. Such fire safety violations are commonly disclosed by home inspectors. Fortunately, there are three practical solutions to the problem:

1) You can eliminate the access by covering the opening with 5/8-inch fire-rated drywall. Unfortunately, this also eliminates the valuable storage space in the garage attic.

2) You can construct a firewall in the attic, separating the garage attic from the house attic. In most cases, the framing for this wall is already partially or completely in place. Once the framing is complete, just apply 5/8inch fire-rated drywall then mud and tape the joints.

3) The manufacturers of some folding ladders make kits for retrofitting their ladders to comply with fire separation requirements. Just check the label on the ladder and contact the manufacturer to see if a fire door upgrade kit is available. Or installing a new pull down that is fire rated may be the best way to go.

[retiredguy123]

Pull down ladder in a fire ceiling | Honest Home Inspections (https://www.honesthomeinspections.com/node/128)

Our garage has a drop-down ladder in the ceiling, providing access to a storage area in the attic. When we bought the house, our home inspector informed us that this was a violation of the firewall between the garage and the house. Is there a reasonable way to correct this problem and still retain storage access from the garage? —Gene


Dear Gene,
Wall surfaces that separate a garage from a dwelling are required to comply with one-hour fire-rated construction standards. This requirement is intended to slow the spread of a garage fire into the residential areas of the building. When this firewall does not extend into the attic, that is, when the garage attic is not separated from the house attic, then the garage ceiling becomes part of the required garage firewall. Homeowners, typically unaware of such requirements, often violate this fire separation by installing a folding ladder as an attic access. Such fire safety violations are commonly disclosed by home inspectors. Fortunately, there are three practical solutions to the problem:

1) You can eliminate the access by covering the opening with 5/8-inch fire-rated drywall. Unfortunately, this also eliminates the valuable storage space in the garage attic.

2) You can construct a firewall in the attic, separating the garage attic from the house attic. In most cases, the framing for this wall is already partially or completely in place. Once the framing is complete, just apply 5/8inch fire-rated drywall then mud and tape the joints.

3) The manufacturers of some folding ladders make kits for retrofitting their ladders to comply with fire separation requirements. Just check the label on the ladder and contact the manufacturer to see if a fire door upgrade kit is available. Or installing a new pull down that is fire rated may be the best way to go.
I find it difficult to believe that any commercially available folding attic stair assembly would not comply with the building code. Retrofitting the attic space between the garage attic and the living space attic to create a firewall would be very difficult and expensive mostly because of the lack of access to the attic. Also, you would most likely end up with gaps that would defeat the purpose.

[Altavia]

I find it difficult to believe that any commercially available folding attic stair assembly would not comply with the building code. Retrofitting the attic space between the garage attic and the living space attic to create a firewall would be very difficult and expensive mostly because of the lack of access to the attic. Also, you would most likely end up with gaps that would defeat the purpose.

Look for certification/label it meets minimum 3/8-inch (9.53 mm) (nominal) fire-retardant-treated structural panel is deemed to meet the 20-minute thermal barrier test based on ASTM E 119, Test Methods for Fire Tests of Building Construction and Materials, or deemed to have the fire resistance of or equivalent to ½-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum wall board.

[metoo21]

I find it difficult to believe that any commercially available folding attic stair assembly would not comply with the building code. Retrofitting the attic space between the garage attic and the living space attic to create a firewall would be very difficult and expensive mostly because of the lack of access to the attic. Also, you would most likely end up with gaps that would defeat the purpose.

That "plywood" the OP posted about probably is the sheetrock panel that was removed when the opening was created unless someone damaged it and replaced with a sheet of plywood.

The less expensive commercially available folding attic stairs do meet code when used inside a building - but not in the garage. The garage is a different matter due to the storage of cars, lawnmowers and potentially gas cans.

From what I found when I was looking to put stairs in my garage, the ones that meet code for a garage start in the $450 + range. They will have this label.

[retiredguy123]

Look for certification/label it meets minimum 3/8-inch (9.53 mm) (nominal) fire-retardant-treated structural panel is deemed to meet the 20-minute thermal barrier test based on ASTM E 119, Test Methods for Fire Tests of Building Construction and Materials, or deemed to have the fire resistance of or equivalent to ½-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum wall board.
Interesting. My attic opening, installed by the builder is drywall, not plywood. But, it looks like you can buy a fire-rated or and a non-fire rated folding attic stair. If you are installing it in the garage, you would need to use a stair assembly that provides a one-hour fire rating to comply with the building code for the garage ceiling. But, if you are installing the stair inside the living space, the ceiling does not need to be fire rated, so, I assume you could use a non-fire rated stair assembly. Good to know if you plan to add an attic stair in your garage.

[metoo21]

Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot.

This isn't exactly correct. The blocks are the outside perimeter - not in the wall between the garage and interior of the home. That is a standard stud (could be metal or wood) wall with sheetrock. Still a fire barrier but not block. Nothing is necessarily fire proof but there is a rating such that fire shouldn't penetrate for X amount of time. Hopefully enough time for the fire department to arrive and put out the fire before it spreads to the rest of the home.

In my research about stairs for the garage, I did read some reports of insurance companies not paying claims because the fire spread into the home through the attic stairway and the attic stairs were not properly fire rated.

[AZ SLIM]

Our house was built in 2022 in the Village of Deluna. There is no fire wall in the attic between the garage and the rest of the house, the attic access hole was covered with a piece of drywall, not plywood.

We installed a drop-down ladder from a local company that installs gutters and ladders. There is no fire code sticker on it. The seam around it is as tight or tighter than the original cover. I didn't think to ask about compliance with fire code, maybe I should have. I don't plan to buy an EV (yes, I know gas cars can catch fire too).

The man door between the garage and house is solid wood, but not metal as required by the four other states we lived in. It did not have self-closing hinges like is required in other places. I did change one of the hinges to a self-closing type. That's handy for convenience as well.

The building department in the county building in Wildwood on Powell road (same building as the library) is easy to access and was helpful with another issue we had. You can just walk in and ask if you have questions. They are nice.

[Normal]

Pull down ladder in a fire ceiling | Honest Home Inspections (https://www.honesthomeinspections.com/node/128)

Our garage has a drop-down ladder in the ceiling, providing access to a storage area in the attic. When we bought the house, our home inspector informed us that this was a violation of the firewall between the garage and the house. Is there a reasonable way to correct this problem and still retain storage access from the garage? —Gene


Dear Gene,
Wall surfaces that separate a garage from a dwelling are required to comply with one-hour fire-rated construction standards. This requirement is intended to slow the spread of a garage fire into the residential areas of the building. When this firewall does not extend into the attic, that is, when the garage attic is not separated from the house attic, then the garage ceiling becomes part of the required garage firewall. Homeowners, typically unaware of such requirements, often violate this fire separation by installing a folding ladder as an attic access.

There is an attic ladder pull down on our new construction home purchased straight from The Villages. So are you saying they are breaking the law each and every time they do this? It would be a huge problem for the homeowners and the Developer. The ladder is mounted on thick painted plywood.

[REDCART]

We had an exhaust fan installed in our garage ceiling by the Solar Guys. The fan had fire protection included via a metal band that would melt and turn the fan off in the event of a fire.

[Altavia]

There is an attic ladder pull down on our new construction home purchased straight from The Villages. So are you saying they are breaking the law each and every time they do this? It would be a huge problem for the homeowners and the Developer. The ladder is mounted on thick painted plywood.

They are probably fire rated stairs as mentioned in other posts...

[jrref]

Thanks for all the replies.

So, they do make fire rated attic stairs. One I saw in Home Depot is around $800 just for the ladder and the ladder is wood. If you want a metal ladder from the same company then it's $1080. All the rest of the attic stairs they sell are not fire rated. I'll bet most people have the non-fire rated ladder installed in their garage. The fire rated ladder has a thicker wood cover with some insulation and a better gasket to seal out smoke.

What surprises me is I purchased my home 2 years ago and I had it inspected. My neighbor sold his house and the new people had it inspected. In both cases the non-fire rated attic stairs never came up as a violation. Also, a popular attic stair company, Majic stairs, has no information about fire ratings on their stairs and they are installing all over the Villages.

So now the question is who installs fire rated attic stairs? If I'm going to spend the money, I want it done right.

[jrref]

This isn't exactly correct. The blocks are the outside perimeter - not in the wall between the garage and interior of the home. That is a standard stud (could be metal or wood) wall with sheetrock. Still a fire barrier but not block. Nothing is necessarily fire proof but there is a rating such that fire shouldn't penetrate for X amount of time. Hopefully enough time for the fire department to arrive and put out the fire before it spreads to the rest of the home.

In my research about stairs for the garage, I did read some reports of insurance companies not paying claims because the fire spread into the home through the attic stairway and the attic stairs were not properly fire rated.


Thank you for the correction. From what I understand, the sheetrock needs to be at least 5/8 inch to be fire rated and I'm guessing the sheetrock on these walls are that thichness.

[rmagee]

Since I've been living in the Villages and visiting neighbors and friends who live here, I've noticed that some have no attic stairs but just a thin piece of plywood over the access to their attic over the garage. Also, If they do have attic stairs, none or very few are of the fire rated type.

That said, is there a building code here in the the Villages for fire the rating of the garage. For example, the ceiling should be at least 5/8 inch sheetrock, there should be a fire rated garage access door, etc, to delay the spread of fire for I believe 1 hr, in case of a fire in your garage.

Also, the Garage attic is not separated from the living space attic. And I also see some people who have a vent in their garage door and a fan in the garage ceiling that will turn on when the temperature reaches a certain point. This device would probably acceletate the spread of fire and smoke in a fire in the garage I would think.

In doing some research, It appears that there is no building code for this.

Any thoughts or additional information on the matter?

In some ways when I look at the build of a typical home in the Villages, I'm relatively impressed with the engineering that went into many parts of the design but Fire safety, I'm not sure what to think. Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot.

We did this in our garage; manufactured in Ocala. Love it ($3700) majic stairs - Search Videos (https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=majic+stairs&mid=B69F18D7253CEBF538B0B69F18D7253CEBF538B0&FORM=VIRE)

[rmagee]

majic stairs - Search Videos (https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=majic+stairs&mid=B69F18D7253CEBF538B0B69F18D7253CEBF538B0&FORM=VIRE)

$3700 made in Ocala

[metoo21]

There is an attic ladder pull down on our new construction home purchased straight from The Villages. So are you saying they are breaking the law each and every time they do this? It would be a huge problem for the homeowners and the Developer. The ladder is mounted on thick painted plywood.

There should be a label stating it has been treated with a fire retardant if it was. And a UL label with #'s that can be looked up to see that the manufacturer was UL rated in its application.

[metoo21]

I spoke to Majic Stairs when I was looking and they didn't know anything about fireproofing. Turns out that it didn't matter as my attic construction would not have allowed the installation once I really looked at the videos. The stairs I have are Husky 800 (https://www.stairwayshop.com/american-stairways-husky-800-aluminum-folding-attic-ladders-350-lbs-capacity.html). They have an option for a fire resistant door which I have - proven by the label in my other post. I was fortunate to purchase it from a homeowner here that had it replaced with Majic Stairs.

Husky 800 stairs are manufactured in Memphis, TN. I know they have distributors but you'd have to measure your opening and call them to see if there was a local one.

[metoo21]

For an idea, I'd suggest calling Majic Stairs and see if they can provide you with contact info on some of their recent installs. Then contact those folks and see if they still have their old stairs. You could go see what they had and look for the fire treatment label. You might get lucky and find one. I found mine on Facebook. Or you could post on your facebook group saying you were looking for a set of stairs

[Wayne Mudge]

Since I've been living in the Villages and visiting neighbors and friends who live here, I've noticed that some have no attic stairs but just a thin piece of plywood over the access to their attic over the garage. Also, If they do have attic stairs, none or very few are of the fire rated type.

That said, is there a building code here in the the Villages for fire the rating of the garage. For example, the ceiling should be at least 5/8 inch sheetrock, there should be a fire rated garage access door, etc, to delay the spread of fire for I believe 1 hr, in case of a fire in your garage.

Also, the Garage attic is not separated from the living space attic. And I also see some people who have a vent in their garage door and a fan in the garage ceiling that will turn on when the temperature reaches a certain point. This device would probably acceletate the spread of fire and smoke in a fire in the garage I would think.

In doing some research, It appears that there is no building code for this.

Any thoughts or additional information on the matter?

In some ways when I look at the build of a typical home in the Villages, I'm relatively impressed with the engineering that went into many parts of the design but Fire safety, I'm not sure what to think. Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot. R302.6 Dwelling-garage fire separation.
The garage shall be separated as required by Table R302.6. Openings in garage walls shall comply with Section R302.5. Attachment of gypsum board shall comply with Table R702.3.5. The wall separation provisions of Table R302.6 shall not apply to garage walls that are perpendicular to the adjacent dwelling unit wall. TABLE R302.6DWELLING-GARAGE SEPARATION
SEPARATION MATERIAL
From the residence and attics Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the
garage side
From habitable rooms above the garage Not less than 5/8-inch Type X gypsum board or equivalent
Structure(s) supporting floor/ceiling assemblies used for separation
required by this section
Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent
Garages located less than 3 feet from a dwelling unit on the same lot Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the interior
side of exterior walls that are within this area.
So yes there is a code and basically here in the Villages 1/2 Gypsum meets the requirement. Doors to the home need to be fire-rated, but self-closing devices are no longer Required.

[RobO178]

Intumescent fire control paint is UL tested and will fire proof pull down attic stairs in the garage to meet local fire codes. It's expensive and when applied correctly, the paint will expand 6" during a fire, sealing all openings and the stairway.

[MrChip72]

My question is why would this be necessary? No one is going to be sleeping or spending much time in the attic as far as I know.

[metoo21]

My question is why would this be necessary? No one is going to be sleeping or spending much time in the attic as far as I know.

Because fire will spread to the rest of the home rather quickly. The barrier is to allow time for occupants to escape the home and/or fire personnel to arrive and fight the fire.

[metoo21]

///

[Normal]

Because fire will spread to the rest of the home rather quickly. The barrier is to allow time for occupants to escape the home and/or fire personnel to arrive and fight the fire.

I appreciate your posts. This was an aspect I never had considered in home construction. Have a wonderful day:mademyday:

[Altavia]

I appreciate your posts. This was an aspect I never had considered in home construction. Have a wonderful day:mademyday:

The opening effectively acts like a chimney accelerating a fire originating in the garage.

This is also why it's a bad idea to partially open the attic access and crack the garage door open to help ventilation. If an insurance investigator finds this, a homeowner could have problems collecting.

To put it in perspective, at least since I've been here, more homes and caught fire due to lightening strikes than garages fires.

[Janie123]

Since I've been living in the Villages and visiting neighbors and friends who live here, I've noticed that some have no attic stairs but just a thin piece of plywood over the access to their attic over the garage. Also, If they do have attic stairs, none or very few are of the fire rated type.

That said, is there a building code here in the the Villages for fire the rating of the garage. For example, the ceiling should be at least 5/8 inch sheetrock, there should be a fire rated garage access door, etc, to delay the spread of fire for I believe 1 hr, in case of a fire in your garage.

Also, the Garage attic is not separated from the living space attic. And I also see some people who have a vent in their garage door and a fan in the garage ceiling that will turn on when the temperature reaches a certain point. This device would probably acceletate the spread of fire and smoke in a fire in the garage I would think.

In doing some research, It appears that there is no building code for this.

Any thoughts or additional information on the matter?

In some ways when I look at the build of a typical home in the Villages, I'm relatively impressed with the engineering that went into many parts of the design but Fire safety, I'm not sure what to think. Yes in a Block Home, the only way for the fire to spread from the garage would be through the ceilint and the hole for the attic stairs may not be significant unless the whole garage were on fire and at that point the fire rating of the garage stairs may be moot.
Florida building code (which differs state to state) requires 20 minute rating (just enough to get out of the house), 1/2” drywall on all walls and doors in the garage that is attached to the house. Attic stairs (without vent holes retro fitted into them) are allowed as long as it too provides the 20 minute requirement. Doors need to be solid core, not a standard residential hollow core door. Self-closing is not a requirement in FL. The 20 minute goes to 1 hr if there is a direct bedroom above or attached to the garage. No doors into an attached bedroom either. No venting from garage into attic is allowed however, a vent from garage to the outside thru the roof is allowed or the garage is separated from the house by an attic wall. Also, all penetrations (ducts and pipes) must be sealed with material that is also fire retardent.

[PGApromike]

If you take the sheet rock that covered the opening for access and was considered a "firewall" trim one side and one width down to attach to the new board supporting the ladder. Can be done with a utility knife in 2 minutes and does meet the code. It has to fit when for is closed is why trim is needed.

[jrref]

I spoke to Majic Stairs when I was looking and they didn't know anything about fireproofing. Turns out that it didn't matter as my attic construction would not have allowed the installation once I really looked at the videos. The stairs I have are Husky 800 (https://www.stairwayshop.com/american-stairways-husky-800-aluminum-folding-attic-ladders-350-lbs-capacity.html). They have an option for a fire resistant door which I have - proven by the label in my other post. I was fortunate to purchase it from a homeowner here that had it replaced with Majic Stairs.

That was the first installation of magic stairs I had seen in person. The plywood/stairs were so bowed when the unit was closed that there was a large gap between the plywood and the ceiling.

Husky 800 stairs are manufactured in Memphis, TN. I know they have distributors but you'd have to measure your opening and call them to see if there was a local one.

I called Majic stairs yesterday and asked about fire rating and after a minute of silence, they said they can spray a special fire retardant coating on the stairs if I wanted. So that said, Majic stairs is installing thousands of stairs here in the Villages. If fire rated stairs were required I would think there would be an issue by now.

[jrref]

Florida building code (which differs state to state) requires 20 minute rating (just enough to get out of the house), 1/2” drywall on all walls and doors in the garage that is attached to the house. Attic stairs (without vent holes retro fitted into them) are allowed as long as it too provides the 20 minute requirement. Doors need to be solid core, not a standard residential hollow core door. Self-closing is not a requirement in FL. The 20 minute goes to 1 hr if there is a direct bedroom above or attached to the garage. No doors into an attached bedroom either. No venting from garage into attic is allowed however, a vent from garage to the outside thru the roof is allowed or the garage is separated from the house by an attic wall. Also, all penetrations (ducts and pipes) must be sealed with material that is also fire retardent.

This seems to be the best information on the topic.

So a couple of thoughts:
1) Many new homes come with a piece of sheetrock or plywood suspended by molding in the garage without an attic ladder. In case of a fire, the wood molding would burn in a couple of minutes and that sheetrock or plywood would fall to the floor leaving a huge opening for the fire to travel.

2) Although I wasn't able to find any "local" information on building code specifically for attic stairs, the code does specify fire ratings for the walls, ceiling and doors. The attic stairs should be considered part of the ceiling structure and therefore should have some fire rating.

3) Yesterday I looked at several of my neighbors garages and none had fire rated attic stairs. As I mentioned in a previous post, Majic stairs, for example, installs thousands of stairs in the Villages as does many other companies and they don't have a Fire Rated product. So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs. I do want to mention that the Majic Lift that Majic stairs installs is not fire rated but the cover is steel so that's not going to burn which is good.

4) After investigating, as mentioned, Fako makes a fire rated attic stairs that you can get at Home Depot for $805 just for the stairs. It installes just like regular attic stairs but it has rock wool to put around the gap where you install the molding and has a special gasket that will expand in the event of a fire. Although there is nothing special about the install, the stairs weighs about 100 lbs so it's a three person job to install.

I guess it's time for someone to start a business of installing fire rated attic stairs here in the Villages? The problem is Villagers won't spend the money thinking that nothing is going to happen to them but what scares me is if you do have a fire, will your insurance company pay if they find an attic stair violation? Is it worth the cost to install one of these stairs to avoid gambling that you will have a problem with the insurance company and or play with the safety of you and your family? Especially with all the electric and hybrid electric cars people are buying these days along with battery powered golf carts. Even a gas golf cart can catch on fire as we have seen at some of the squares recently.

Hope this was interesting. I'll let you know what I do. If I can get two of my neighbors to help me lift the stairs to install it or if I can find a pro installer who will install it at a "normal" rate then I'll probably change out my old junk attic stairs for a nice fire rated one.

[metoo21]

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

[jrref]

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes that is exactly the problem. The insurance company will always be looking for something to get out of paying or paying the full amount. Also, as mentioned, It's not very common to have a garage fire but with all the electric and electric hybrid and golf carts, it's more probable that it could happen so it's best to do the right thing and install the right product. These stairs are very well built so it's a "once and done" project.

[Altavia]

Regarding your statement "So, from observation, most people in the Villages probably don't have or even know anything about fire rated attic stairs." you are most likely correct. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

And do you think if a fire starts in the garage and something isn't to code that insurance will still pay to rebuild?? I think they always look for an out.

Great post jrref. Hopefully it will help others.

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.

[retiredguy123]

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.
I agree. I don't store anything in the attic. If it needs to be stored, it needs to be thrown out. But, if you need to get into the attic, why not just buy a good ladder?

[jrref]

I use a Little Giant collapable step ladder for attic access and keep the existing drywall cover.

It more sturdy than the low cost attic stairs, doesn't reduce the opening size and can be positioned to ease storing larger items.

Just remember if the sheetrock is held up by the wood molding, if you ever have a fire, that wood will burn within a couple of minutes and the sheetrock will fall from the ceiling leaving a huge hole for the fire and smoke to go through your attic to the rest of your house.

[Altavia]

Just remember if the sheetrock is held up by the wood molding, if you ever have a fire, that wood will burn within a couple of minutes and the sheetrock will fall from the ceiling leaving a huge hole for the fire and smoke to go through your attic to the rest of your house.

Mine is framed similar to the entry door. Trim is on top of the framing around the opening.

Wood frames and trim around doors and windows are excluded from the fire barrier requirement.

So not an issue for insurance.
...

[jrref]

I found this article which should help better understand the building code in Florida and where the 20 minute fire rating came from.

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But the way it is actually stated in the Residential Edition of the Florida Building Code is a “separation” between dwelling and garage, and as “not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent. The International Residential Code (IRC) is similar.

Most homes have a 1/2” drywall panel installed in the attic access opening, which is fine. But when you put something else in the opening, it must be equivalent to 1/2” drywall, which has roughly a 20-minute fire resistance. The 1/4” plywood panel at most attic ladders does not meet that standard.
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So if you make any hole in your garage ceiling, if there is no living space above it, you need to fill the hole with 1/2" drywall or anything that has an equivalent 20-minute fire resistance. If there is living space above then you need 5/8" TypeX sheetrock and a 1hr fire resistance rating which is significantly more strigent is needed. The idea is to allow enough time to exit the residence in case of a fire. The insurance aspect is secondary.

The link to the article is here ->Why are most pull-down attic ladders not approved by building code for installation in a garage? (https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Blog/Entries/2019/6/why-are-most-pull-down-attic-ladders-not-approved-by-building-code-for-installation-in-a-garage.html)

[keepsake]

"Once the framing is complete, just apply 5/8inch fire-rated drywall then mud and tape the joints."

Really !! How about apply drywall and you're done.

[jrref]

Update: My final decision was to replace my old warped attic stairs with the fire rated Fakro LWF stairs which I purchased from Home Depot. Although the building code requires 20 minute burn-through rating, these stairs have a 30 minute rating. The stairs install just like any other attic stairs only the depth of the frame is larger because of the triple gasket, fire rated door and the insulation. The unit is very well made and very sturdy. I installed it with the help of 4 of my neighbors who helped lift the stairs into the ceiling while I fastened the unit from the attic. After everything is square and level, the instructions clearly tell you were to fasten the unit. After that, to meet the fire rating you need to install some rock wool insulation which is fire proof, in the gap between the frame and the rough opening and then use 3M fire block caulk or equivalent top and bottom of that same opening. Then install the trim and you are done. The fire block caulk is important becasue there is no need for a fire rated door if you have an opening around it directly to the attic. The idea is to keep smoke and flames from entering into your attic in case of a fire. The wood trim is not going to do that. If you install this yourself or have someone do it for you, make sure the hinge side of the frame is flush against the header in the rough opening for maximum strength. You can shim the other three sides when fastening the frame to the joists and header. Also, make sure you use construction rated screws or lag bolts and NOT wood or deck screws. Wood and deck screws don't have the same sheer strength as construction screws or lag bolts which is especially important on the hinge side of the stairs. I looked at many Youtube videos of attic stair inspections and missing fasteners and incorrect screws are the most common mistakes which eventually lead to failure of the stairs. As a final installation comment, most modern wood stairs have plastic feet for the bottom of the ladder where it rests on the ground which gives you the correct angle to the floor. So all you need to do is get the measurement of the last ladder segment to the floor and make a straight cut then install the plastic feet for the perfect fit. No more trying to calculate the correct angled cut. On the Fakro stairs there is also an adjustment bolt where you can adjust the ladders angle if you cut the feet slightly short or long. This is a premium attic stairs where everything is well thought out and engineered properly.

At the end of the day, the Fakro fire rated attic stairs is not cheap but you can't put a price on safety and this is a "once and done" project. Also, if you sell your home at some point, you won't be called out on the attic stairs on inspection. For example, the Majic stairs and other units like it cost around $3,500 installed. These are great stairs but we don't have the room to install these in our home. We have the Majic Lift to cart items in and out of the attic and the Fakro stairs just to go in and out of the attic. No carrying stuff up and down any stairs.

As a final note to this saga, I did find Fire Retardant Paint. It's made by Insul-X and you can purchase it at Ace Hardware. It's fire rated for 30 minutes and from what I understand you can paint it on any wood, pre-painted or not, and when flame hits it, the paint creates an intumescent film increasing the time it takes for the wood to burn. The label also says you can paint over it and not effect it's fire retardant properties so no need to color match the paint. It's also water based and colored white. All this said, if you have a good attic stairs that fits properly, in order to meet the Florida building code you could paint the outside of your attic stairs with this fire retardant paint BUT, you need to make sure you have a good door gasket and not just plywood butting up against the frame to keept the smoke and flames from entering the attic. If you don't have a gasket, one thing you could do is purchase self stick gasket that's made for a BBQ and has a high temperature rating and won't burn. Amazon sells this.

Sorry for the long response but I hope all this information helps you make a better informed decision when thinking about attic stairs.

[Altavia]

Awesome work Jrref - thanks for sharing the details!

[lmk2570]

Jrref, So grateful that you give so much detail on this topic! The notes from your update are great- we are going to attempt this for our fix(fire retardant paint, and gaskets) Though you may see lots of plywood in garage ceilings, it is not up to code- - we were told about the fire issue when the company installed our attic stairs, but it was during installation, and not much we could do at the time. Sure enough, we are selling the house and the only thing that came back on the inspection? The plywood attic pull down door needs to be addressed because of the fire concern. :what: