Golf Pro's in The Villages

[dewilson58]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

[Davonu]

They do give lessons.

[golfing eagles]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

You're kidding, right?

They don't set up the course for play.

Generally not, sometimes in tournaments. Usually, the outdoor manager is in charge of that, and more often than not they are just following the pin position chart on the scorecard. I'll admit the workers that actually put the cup in the ground could use a lot more training/supervision.

They don't give lessons.

Take a look at page 13 of the insert you've referenced and see the 11 teaching pros. The "club pros" are really facility managers, not teachers

They don't develop a junior program.

In a 55+ retirement community??? Really???

They "front & center".

No idea what that means in this context

They don't manage pace-of-play.

No, that's the job that the "ambassadors" DON'T DO

They don't promote the game.

Golf Fest, Pro shootout, website including pro's corner, advertisements, specials. What would you suggest?

My friend, this time I think you were way off the mark.

[dewilson58]

They do give lessons.

Yes, (appears I meant zero) I should have put in quotes or been more specific......I changed my OP.

:thumbup:

[dewilson58]

You're kidding, right?
My friend, this time I think you were way off the mark.

That's okay.............I know/understand your responses.

I'm jus comparing what I see in a normal Country Club Pro and what I don't see in a Villages Pro.

They are behind the scenes and not in the forefront.

"Front & Center"........out in the pro shop, out on the golf course, seeing how his customers are doing, taking feedback, being the ambassador to the country club and assuring the golf experience.

The guys driving around the golf course are not ambassadors, they just have the label.

:beer3:

[Bogie Shooter]

My guess the next folks receiving criticism at the pro shops will be the folks accepting your payment.

[golfing eagles]

That's okay.............I know/understand your responses.

I'm jus comparing what I see in a normal Country Club Pro and what I don't see in a Villages Pro.
:beer3:

I see the confusion. A "normal" country club has a head pro and an assistant pro, unless it is a huge club where there may be a few layers of pros.

The 2 pros run the pro shop, give lessons, rent the carts, supervise the greenskeepers, run tournaments and much more---in short they "do it all". Here, they have split the "club pros" and the "teaching pros" at the academy. The teaching pros essentially do just that--teach. The club pros manage the country clubs

[kkingston57]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

Great questions!! Bet they do give lessons at the courses with driving ranges.

[golfing eagles]

Great questions!! Bet they do give lessons at the courses with driving ranges.

Actually, it's the Academy teaching pros, not the "club" pro who gives lessons there--at least Palmer and Lopez, and I've never seen a pro giving a lesson on the range at Glenview---although there are plenty of very bad amateurs that think they can teach the game. I suppose the old adage--"those who cannot do, teach" is highly applicable to them. To quote C-3PO from Star Wars episode 2---"It's a nightmare" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[drcar]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

You are way off the mark, the pros run each facility they are assigned to, a few oversee several courses. BTW junior programs are developed at the schools and run at the County Clubs. We need to check the facts first before stating wrong information..

[dewilson58]

You are way off the mark, the pros run each facility they are assigned to, a few oversee several courses. BTW junior programs are developed at the schools and run at the County Clubs. We need to check the facts first before stating wrong information..

As are you. :oops::oops:

I stated IMO.........if you don't understand, that is In My Opinion.
I was not stating facts, I was stating my opinion, from over ten years of observations (in TV)...........comparing Country Clubs I've been associated with vs. TV clubs.

:ohdear::ohdear:

[BrianL99]

I saw something with my own eyes yesterday, that I have never seen in The Villages before.

Quite honestly, I was flabbergasted and almost asked about it, but didn't have an opportunity.

I was hitting balls at the range at Palmer Legends and along came a woman and a portly but well dressed gentleman behind her, carrying a bucket of balls.

Mr. Mark Verkey himself (PGA Golf Professional at Palmer) in the flesh, spent at least 45 minutes giving a woman golf instruction. Had I an opportunity to tease him about it, I would have ... it was a novelty.

So some golf professionals in TV do give lessons, but in my limited experience, those lessons are heretofore, confined to students of the left-handed and female variety.

BTW, Mark is a very nice guy and I understand he's a pretty good player.

[asianthree]

In all the years we have been here, once while playing BG a gentleman drove behind carts. Into as _______ golf pro for BG. Asked how the round was going, then do you mind if I play couple holes with you. We were three, no worries. Long drives and putted well, very personable. Played 3 holes thanked us for the opportunity, he said I enjoy talking to residents and get thoughts on course. Then headed for a meeting.

So 17 years I met one.

[JoMar]

Apples and oranges, the Country Clubs (2) that I belonged to charged between $8 and $10K for a membership after an inititian fee (yeah I know, they weren't that great as far as clubs go) The Clubs here charge nothing. I also had a $60 - $75 minimum for food each month. The Clubs here charge nothing. The clubs closed for tournaments, sometimes for a week plus, and our memberships weren't adjusted. We also paid for bag storage but don't remember that cost. The Clubs here are Country Clubs in name only and I don't understand why some try and convince others we have Country Clubs.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

You're kidding, right?

They don't set up the course for play.

Generally not, sometimes in tournaments. Usually, the outdoor manager is in charge of that, and more often than not they are just following the pin position chart on the scorecard. I'll admit the workers that actually put the cup in the ground could use a lot more training/supervision.

They don't give lessons.

Take a look at page 13 of the insert you've referenced and see the 11 teaching pros. The "club pros" are really facility managers, not teachers

They don't develop a junior program.

In a 55+ retirement community??? Really???

They "front & center".

No idea what that means in this context

They don't manage pace-of-play.

No, that's the job that the "ambassadors" DON'T DO

They don't promote the game.

Golf Fest, Pro shootout, website including pro's corner, advertisements, specials. What would you suggest?

My friend, this time I think you were way off the mark.

They also run the “Good Golf” school, which was very beneficial 20 years ago in helping us become acquainted with the local golf hierarchy and course rules. I wish golfers and especially would-be golfers would take the course. Of course, it was free then. I think there is a fee now. 😝

[TC_Arch]

Sell shirts

[wamley]

These are not private Country Clubs where you put down a substantial amount of $$$$$ to be a member. They are public courses run by the villages.

[HORNET]

They are the Managers of that Country Club / those Championship and Executive Golf Courses, the Employees, the merchandise, the maintenance companies and all of the needless complaints that come in. They are all Certified Professionals. It’s a big business, it’s the Developers Right Hand Men!

[SHIBUMI]

Country Clubs have a Membership that has to be served for continuing happiness and to keep them there.

TV has no membership. The import is on the streamless managing of a facility for all players. Thats what the pro's here do. And they do it well! They are not here to entertain YOU, unlike Country Clubs, they are here to insure smooth facility functioning.

Just so you understand, Pro's don't set up golf courses. Superintendents set-up golf courses.
It is a common misunderstanding..............


As are you. :oops::oops:

I stated IMO.........if you don't understand, that is In My Opinion.
I was not stating facts, I was stating my opinion, from over ten years of observations (in TV)...........comparing Country Clubs I've been associated with vs. TV clubs.

:ohdear::ohdear:

[OhioBuckeye]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

Nancy Lopez use to come now & then. Sometimes a top club pro will come.

[dewilson58]

Country Clubs have a Membership that has to be served for continuing happiness and to keep them there.

TV has no membership. The import is on the streamless managing of a facility for all players. Thats what the pro's here do. And they do it well! They are not here to entertain YOU, unlike Country Clubs, they are here to insure smooth facility functioning.

Just so you understand, Pro's don't set up golf courses. Superintendents set-up golf courses.
It is a common misunderstanding..............

Yep, got that.

FYI, three Clubs I was at.........all three the Pro (or assistant) set up the courses, they were a key as to how the course played that given day or week or month.

:coolsmiley:

[dewilson58]

Nancy Lopez use to come now & then. Sometimes a top club pro will come.

Does she (or her dad) still have a house in TV???

[SHIBUMI]

Sorry to say those courses must have had a poor super. No self respecting super will let anyone else set the course up on a daily basis. They will take instruction for tournament set-up from the pro's, BUT, not daily. And if the super was good, then the organizational structure of the golf course is deficient.

Yep, got that.

FYI, three Clubs I was at.........all three the Pro (or assistant) set up the courses, they were a key as to how the course played that given day or week or month.

:coolsmiley:

[dewilson58]

Sorry to say those courses must have had a poor super. No self respecting super will let anyone else set the course up on a daily basis.

Wow................you know, there are more views and facts in the world than jus yours. :22yikes:

One of the Super's is running a club which holds Senior PGA tourney's.
Quality guy.
:thumbup:

[Gsorace]

In all the years we have been here, once while playing BG a gentleman drove behind carts. Into as _______ golf pro for BG. Asked how the round was going, then do you mind if I play couple holes with you. We were three, no worries. Long drives and putted well, very personable. Played 3 holes thanked us for the opportunity, he said I enjoy talking to residents and get thoughts on course. Then headed for a meeting.

So 17 years I met one.

What a great idea that is. If they could schedule themselves (even just once a week) to be on the course with those who play it. They could receive valuable feedback and opinions, along with the inevitable complaints. Why not?

[4$ALE]

They also run the “Good Golf” school, which was very beneficial 20 years ago in helping us become acquainted with the local golf hierarchy and course rules. I wish golfers and especially would-be golfers would take the course. Of course, it was free then. I think there is a fee now. 😝

:read:
Good Golf School (https://www.golfthevillages.com/goodgolfschool/index.aspx)

[Gwiz4u]

Well put
When is the last time you saw the sand traps racked



Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

[Steve]

Actually, it's the Academy teaching pros, not the "club" pro who gives lessons there--at least Palmer and Lopez, and I've never seen a pro giving a lesson on the range at Glenview---although there are plenty of very bad amateurs that think they can teach the game. I suppose the old adage--"those who cannot do, teach" is highly applicable to them. To quote C-3PO from Star Wars episode 2---"It's a nightmare" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

...or "Amateurs Teach Amateurs To Be Amateurs."

[jedalton]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:
they do setup course and putting green for tournaments, they give lessons, they run the pro shop and manage the inventory, they oversee the championship and executive courses, they oversee the driving range, they answer any emergency that happens on the course, they manage all employees at their courses, they prepare the work schedule for all employees, they review all employees time card, they manage replacement and management of their rental golf carts and rental clubs. I can only speak of Palmer because I worked there for 6 years. It's a thankless job.

[BrianL99]

Sorry to say those courses must have had a poor super. No self respecting super will let anyone else set the course up on a daily basis. They will take instruction for tournament set-up from the pro's, BUT, not daily. And if the super was good, then the organizational structure of the golf course is deficient.


Wow................you know, there are more views and facts in the world than jus yours. :22yikes:

One of the Super's is running a club which holds Senior PGA tourney's.
Quality guy.
:thumbup:

On a daily basis, the Superintendent sets up a golf course. Only he knows where he needs a hole location to be, given past locations and green impacts. That is NEVER the Professional's job (unless the Super is a dope).

For a "club tournament", the pro is likely to participate in set up.

For ALL PGA Tournaments, the PGA course supervisor sets up the course, with the Superintendents assistance.

The OP was 100% correct.

[WSU]

IMO..the pace of play is the primary problem at Championship courses including the Sunday "Nine and Dine" groups

[SHIBUMI]

Golf courses are rated for difficulty at certain yardages.

The general premise is 6-6-6 to maintain that rating.

6 tees are back, 6 are middle and 6 are forward.
6 holes are back 6 holes are middle and 6 holes are forward

Golf Pro's don't change cups, I can only guess that your great super was able to delegate the right instructions to the assistant pros tasked with movement of the tee markers. Labor shortage.

It does sound like he is talented, BUT, at his new place I am sure the pros don't change anything,on the golf course. It is a mortal sin to supers. This is reality.

Wow................you know, there are more views and facts in the world than jus yours. :22yikes:

One of the Super's is running a club which holds Senior PGA tourney's.
Quality guy.
:thumbup:

[HORNET]

PS: The Golf Managers are Certified PGA Pros, in order to be a Manager, The Villages has to have a person at that level to oversee their investments and have PGA backing. Look into before slamming what The Villages do and what The Villages have to do! The Villages have trained people who teach golf, just have to pay!

[HORNET]

They do all of that in one way or another!

[BrianL99]

IMO..the pace of play is the primary problem at Championship courses including the Sunday "Nine and Dine" groups


I have approximately 300 Championship rounds in the 3 years. Every round has been timed by my GolfShot App.

Average time for 18 holes, from the time I reach the golf course, until I putt out on 18 ... 4 hours & 28 minutes. That includes signing in, paying, & waiting until the starter says "go".

Actual course time over 300 rounds, approximately 4 hours & 10 minutes. 12 rounds in 3 years, over 4:30.

ALL rounds, between October and May.

The Villages maintains pace of play, better than any courses I've ever played.

[HORNET]

I had to tell my neighbor and his visiting son that they were off the pace of play and if they could help me out and correct it! But that was my job

[sowilts]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:
They manage personnel and day to day operations. Tyler, Southern Oaks is always helpful. My Grandson had lessons at Palmer.

[SHIBUMI]

While this sounds like a gracious idea..........GolfPro's are not priests or psychiatrists...........
Once they avail themselves to the players for opinions on things they will need hazard pay.

250 rounds of golf in a day would produce 75-100 opinions on what to do. From the size of the Dixie cups, to what snacks are sold, to the color of the flags, to when the driving range closes, to the color of the hitting mats, the type of range balls, whether the toilet paper is one ply or two, to why does the wind blow so hard. etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc. Not priests and not psychiatrists.

If you think you have a valid suggestion/observation/opinion, on something golf, PUT IT IN WRITING sign it and put your email address or phone number down, date it and submit it to the golf pro. Then the subject matter will get discussed at a meeting. And you will get some feedback.

If you really need someone to complain too without committing yourself, then talk to your dog at home. He will listen intently as long as you feed him. :sing:

What a great idea that is. If they could schedule themselves (even just once a week) to be on the course with those who play it. They could receive valuable feedback and opinions, along with the inevitable complaints. Why not?

[golfing eagles]

If you think you have a valid suggestion/observation/opinion, on something golf, PUT IT IN WRITING sign it and put your email address or phone number down, date it and submit it to the golf pro. Then the subject matter will get discussed at a meeting. And you will get some feedback.

If you really need someone to complain too without committing yourself, then talk to your dog at home. He will listen intently as long as you feed him. :sing:

Or......do what everyone else does and post it on TOTV :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[crash]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:

They do teach lessons and they do have a junior program. My granddaughter has done both at Arnold Palmer and Nancy Lopez. Have you not heard of the golf academy.

[pendi99]

They hide very well!

[golfing eagles]

They hide very well!

You mean hide in plain sight.

I practice at Sarasota 4x/week and see Joey, Craig, Tom and Maria all the time. I played Bonifay yesterday and brett came over to say hello. Same with Tyler the last time I played Southern Oaks.

If someone is a casual or primarily exec player, they probably wouldn't recognize our pros if they tripped over them, and those pros wouldn't have the faintest idea who the players are. What is their expectation---that the pro they don't even recognize comes over and gives them a big hug??????

[Shipping up to Boston]

Not a TV only issue. Clubs across the nation are experiencing unprecedented labor shortages. In golf course operations and maintenance....a simple 'warm body and a pulse' hiring option exacerbates the issue. Club pros are soup to nuts type of individuals and deserve better.

[drcar]

As are you. :oops::oops:

I stated IMO.........if you don't understand, that is In My Opinion.
I was not stating facts, I was stating my opinion, from over ten years of observations (in TV)...........comparing Country Clubs I've been associated with vs. TV clubs.

:ohdear::ohdear:

OH, I understand what IMO is, but opinions are normally given when asked. Your opinion was way off the mark!

[D.C.Villager]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:


They give lessons. WHy would any post saying they don't when you are this unknowledgeable?

[dewilson58]

They give lessons. WHy would any post saying they don't when you are this unknowledgeable?

A few lessons.................I get that, but a majority of the lessons are done at the centers, not the clubs by the club pro's.

It was a comparison to Country Club Pros and how much time CCP's spend giving lessons. TV Club Pros do not spend nearly the same amount of time.

Feel better?? Understand better??

Hope your day improves.

[dewilson58]

OH, I understand what IMO is, but opinions are normally given when asked. Your opinion was way off the mark!

Thank you for your opinion.
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

Have you not heard of the golf academy.
Yes, thank you.

I was talking about Club Pro's............not the teachers at the academy.

:wave:

[golfing eagles]

You are way off the mark, the pros run each facility they are assigned to, a few oversee several courses. BTW junior programs are developed at the schools and run at the County Clubs. We need to check the facts first before stating wrong information..

As are you. :oops::oops:

I stated IMO.........if you don't understand, that is In My Opinion.
I was not stating facts, I was stating my opinion, from over ten years of observations (in TV)...........comparing Country Clubs I've been associated with vs. TV clubs.

:ohdear::ohdear:

OH, I understand what IMO is, but opinions are normally given when asked. Your opinion was way off the mark!

So, Dave, any laryngitis yet from yelling at a brick wall???

[dewilson58]

So, Dave, any laryngitis yet from yelling at a brick wall???

Nope, all good.
(my initial post was probably not framed up the best) :shrug:

Did play Belle today..........the greens are thick with grass, pretty slow, but at least not on the sh^t list.

Gators are out cooking in the warmth.

3.5 hour round.......................Villages Life is good.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Nope, all good.
(my initial post was probably not framed up the best) :shrug:

Did play Belle today..........the greens are thick with grass, pretty slow, but at least not on the sh^t list.

Gators are out cooking in the warmth.

3.5 hour round.......................Villages Life is good.

Don’t know you Dave but I’m all for giving you a mulligan on this one. Hit ‘em straight!

[It's Hot There]

Jus received The Villages Golf Magazine.

What do golf pro's in TV do???

They don't set up the course for play.
They don't give lessons..............compared to most club/teaching Pro's.
They don't develop a junior program.
They "front & center".
They don't manage pace-of-play.
They don't promote the game.

(IMO)

I've never seen one except in the Magazine.

:posting:


I understand what you are saying.

I agree.

Some posters post their opinions and limited exposures AS FACT.

:beer3:

[golfing eagles]

Don’t know you Dave but I’m all for giving you a mulligan on this one. Hit ‘em straight!

Funny thing, but he's not Dave

[SHIBUMI]

Sounds like the pros were doing their job for a seamless round of golf for you.............. sorry they didn't buy you an ice cream cone after your round...........

..Nope, all good.
(my initial post was probably not framed up the best) :shrug:

Did play Belle today..........the greens are thick with grass, pretty slow, but at least not on the sh^t list.

Gators are out cooking in the warmth.

3.5 hour round.......................Villages Life is good.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Funny thing, but he's not Dave

Ooops!

[dewilson58]

Sounds like the pros were doing their job for a seamless round of golf for you.............. sorry they didn't buy you an ice cream cone after your round...........

..

Your opinion again.

[dewilson58]

Ooops!

Darryl, Darryl & Larry. :clap2: