FL Senate Bill 280 heads to DeSantis to sign

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.

[BrianL99]

Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.


It's a reaction to the AirBnB lawsuits all over the United States. States/municipalities want AirBnB to collect taxes. AirBnB says they're an innocent 3rd party.

While the bill re-iterates local jurisdiction's authority to issue and/or suspend licenses and such, the primary motivation seems to be an effort to make sure Florida gets all the taxes its due.

[Shipping up to Boston]

[QUOTE=CoachKandSportsguy;2308395]Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.[/QUOTE

Not too familiar with this one. Can you post some bullet points as to why it was filed and what it’s intended to do. Much appreciated

[Shipping up to Boston]

It's a reaction to the AirBnB lawsuits all over the United States. States/municipalities want AirBnB to collect taxes. AirBnB says they're an innocent 3rd party.

While the bill re-iterates local jurisdiction's authority to issue and/or suspend licenses and such, the primary motivation seems to be an effort to make sure Florida gets all the taxes its due.

Thank you for posting. Makes sense

[JoMar]

Not sure the local jurisdictions are interested in providing "oversight" or any action.....nothing in it for them.

[Papa_lecki]

Here’s the summary

Vacation Rentals; Requiring advertising platforms to collect and remit specified taxes for certain vacation rental transactions; defining the term “advertising platform”; adding licensing to the regulated activities of public lodging establishments and public food service establishments which are preempted to the state; requiring advertising platforms to require that persons placing advertisements or listings for vacation rentals include certain information in the advertisements or listings and attest to certain information; authorizing the division to revoke, refuse to issue or renew, or suspend vacation rental licenses under certain circumstances, etc.

It could impact platforms like “rent from a villager” It looks like the “advertising platform” needs to collect taxes and require certain information be listed on them.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Here’s the summary

Vacation Rentals; Requiring advertising platforms to collect and remit specified taxes for certain vacation rental transactions; defining the term “advertising platform”; adding licensing to the regulated activities of public lodging establishments and public food service establishments which are preempted to the state; requiring advertising platforms to require that persons placing advertisements or listings for vacation rentals include certain information in the advertisements or listings and attest to certain information; authorizing the division to revoke, refuse to issue or renew, or suspend vacation rental licenses under certain circumstances, etc.

It could impact platforms like “rent from a villager” It looks like the “advertising platform” needs to collect taxes and require certain information be listed on them.

Obviously there is something in it for a municipality. Responsible owners should have no problem with this.

[Normal]

While few care for STRs in their neighborhoods, they still exist. The housing economy should flush many of them out of business I hope.

All the same I ran across a useful website for calculations and rentals… Causal: a browser-based modelling tool (https://netlify.causal.app/buy-to-rent)

It is very informative for those still wishing to delve into treacherous waters before the bottom falls out of the market. When all is said and done by summers end, we should see solid below 200 dollars a square foot averages.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

I’ve got no problem with local jurisdictions collecting taxes. Actually, I would have thought they already did. But I do have a problem with cracking down on STR’s. It’s been shown in areas that have put rules in place, like saying that you can only do monthly rentals, that it drags down valuations of houses.

[BrianL99]

I’ve got no problem with local jurisdictions collecting taxes. Actually, I would have thought they already did. But I do have a problem with cracking down on STR’s. It’s been shown in areas that have put rules in place, like saying that you can only do monthly rentals, that it drags down valuations of houses.

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

[Normal]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

Well said!

[Bill14564]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Perhaps not

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

Where has any two or three bedroom house been torn down and replaced by a multi-unit facility with a front desk? You can name it a hotel to try to make your point but that doesn't change reality. It is still a single family home with the normal number of persons residing in it.

Folks should not make assumptions, folks should make themselves aware of laws and covenants and what rights they and their neighbors have. This discussion seems to be about buyer's remorse and a desire to take away neighbor's rights to quell that remorse.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

STRs are currently situated exactly where they belong.

Demanding legislation that will result in vacant homes, an increase in homes on the market, the loss of property rights, increased restrictions and higher taxes just doesn't sound like a path to increased home values.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

Agree
Further, I don’t think it’s an attempt to eliminate STR rather a checks and balances initiative. Will be interesting to see how much revenue was actually lost and thus will be generated once enacted.

[Bill14564]

Agree
Further, I don’t think it’s an attempt to eliminate STR rather a checks and balances initiative. Will be interesting to see how much revenue was actually lost and thus will be generated once enacted.

Interesting thought -

Shouldn't the amount of missing revenue been calculated first before taking up limited time to pass a bill that may not be necessary? Or, is this an attempt to add checks and balances until the STRs are driven out? (if we can't limit them we can try regulating them out of business)

Of course, if taxes are not being paid then that needs to be fixed but it isn't at all clear that that was the real intent of this legislation.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Interesting thought -

Shouldn't the amount of missing revenue been calculated first before taking up limited time to pass a bill that may not be necessary? Or, is this an attempt to add checks and balances until the STRs are driven out? (if we can't limit them we can try regulating them out of business)

Of course, if taxes are not being paid then that needs to be fixed but it isn't at all clear that that was the real intent of this legislation.

Great points. I could see other states, less tourist/vacation driven, trying to eliminate STR.....but it is such an embedded part of FL culture and economy. I don’t see that as the intent. Time will tell.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Demanding legislation that will result in vacant homes, an increase in homes on the market, the loss of property rights, increased restrictions and higher taxes just doesn't sound like a path to increased home values.

hoping for / looking for increasing house prices isn't the goal you really want to have.

substantial increases greater than general inflation brings its own issues, including increases in insurance rates greater than inflation, potential increases in tax rates, inability for support/service labor to live here, and you can't spend it to pay for bills. . .

Colorado Ski Town Can't Fill $167,000 Salary Job Due to Housing Costs (https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-ski-town-steamboat-springs-high-housing-costs-2024-3)

I don't get the goal for increasing one's economic shelter costs or illiquid asset value unless you can monetize it easily and cheaply. excessive Increases in house value is just an ego massage, as its expensive to monetize it to pay bigger bills.

[Shipping up to Boston]

hoping for / looking for increasing house prices isn't the goal you really want to have.

substantial increases greater than general inflation brings its own issues, including increases in insurance rates greater than inflation, potential increases in tax rates, inability for support/service labor to live here, and you can't spend it to pay for bills. . .

Colorado Ski Town Can't Fill $167,000 Salary Job Due to Housing Costs (https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-ski-town-steamboat-springs-high-housing-costs-2024-3)

I don't get the goal for increasing one's economic shelter costs or illiquid asset value unless you can monetize it easily and cheaply. excessive Increases in house value is just an ego massage, as its expensive to monetize it to pay bigger bills.

Just on your Colorado link....sounds like somebody might need to encourage development of workforce housing in Steamboat Springs. They’re already leasing a hotel to house said employees. Other trendy locales in the US seem to make it work.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Just on your Colorado link....sounds like somebody might need to encourage development of workforce housing in Steamboat Springs. They’re already leasing a hotel to house said employees. Other trendy locales in the US seem to make it work.

having to spend more money to solve an illiquid asset price issue is the result of high value exclusivity. Just tax them more to pay more for service labor. They won't miss it at all. Lots of economically stupid answers because people like cheap answers, or want govt to solve their own created issues. Everything comes with a cost, like convenience, and exclusivity. If you want it, deal with it, don't ask the govt to fix it for you.

Similar economic issue here in rural FL, lots more high paying jobs 60 minutes away in Orlando, and TV is mostly exclusive to retirees able to afford it. . . similar issues, excessive house values are not a great goal for home owners other than ego.

[Shipping up to Boston]

having to spend more money to solve an illiquid asset price issue is the result of high value exclusivity. Just tax them more to pay more for service labor. They won't miss it at all. Lots of economically stupid answers because people like cheap answers, or want govt to solve their own created issues. Everything comes with a cost, like convenience, and exclusivity. If you want it, deal with it, don't ask the govt to fix it for you.

Similar economic issue here in rural FL, lots more high paying jobs 60 minutes away in Orlando, and TV is mostly exclusive to retirees able to afford it. . . similar issues, excessive house values are not a great goal for home owners other than ego.

Assuming you agreed with my premise. Not asking government to do it...want the onus on, in this case, the resort operators who are printing cash in places like SS and Aspen/Vail. Thus workforce housing development. Obviously CO just like FL would in similar circumstances, probably initiate tax breaks, TIFF and PILOT agreements to do so.

[kkingston57]

[QUOTE=CoachKandSportsguy;2308395]Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.[/QUOTE

Not too familiar with this one. Can you post some bullet points as to why it was filed and what it’s intended to do. Much appreciated

One bullet point: State trying to collect taxes on Short Term Rentals.

[Normal]

Should the state even have any laws for STRs? Local governments should be permitted to manage them as they see fit. Locals should be able to ban them or permit them through elections. Mandates only support weak special interests .

Fortunately the housing market will move to reality. Investors are selling and prices are beginning a sharp decline to the sway of seller/buyer influence. We had a neighbor a few blocks away sell their house in less than a week; because they cut the price by 40k. It enabled a quick and efficient sale. This will happen again and again till markets stabilize to reality. Other factors like inflation, mortgage rates and insurance helped drain off upward pressures in the market and pricing. Apartment construction is exploding outside the Villages (EXPLODING)! One day STRs will be a thing of the past.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Assuming you agreed with my premise. Not asking government to do it...want the onus on, in this case, the resort operators who are printing cash in places like SS and Aspen/Vail. Thus workforce housing development. Obviously CO just like FL would in similar circumstances, probably initiate tax breaks, TIFF and PILOT agreements to do so.

the job was for a single $167,000 city job. . in workforce housing? I don't think so. If a salary of $167,000 can't live in the town, I don't think the resort operators are going to build workforce housing for a city employee either. .

[Road-Runner]

Here’s the summary

Vacation Rentals; Requiring advertising platforms to collect and remit specified taxes for certain vacation rental transactions; defining the term “advertising platform”; adding licensing to the regulated activities of public lodging establishments and public food service establishments which are preempted to the state; requiring advertising platforms to require that persons placing advertisements or listings for vacation rentals include certain information in the advertisements or listings and attest to certain information; authorizing the division to revoke, refuse to issue or renew, or suspend vacation rental licenses under certain circumstances, etc.

It could impact platforms like “rent from a villager” It looks like the “advertising platform” needs to collect taxes and require certain information be listed on them.

You know what they say; "If you want less of something, tax it". In this case that would be a good thing.

[margaretmattson]

You know what they say; "If you want less of something, tax it". In this case that would be a good thing.I like that someone must be available 24 hrs to handle complaints regarding their rentals. In my prior courtyard villa, when renters were out of line, the owners did NOTHING. They were too afraid they would have to refund the rent money. With this bill, owners will have to act or face suspension.

[Shipping up to Boston]

You know what they say; "If you want less of something, tax it". In this case that would be a good thing.

Not sure that quote applies across the country since taxes is a revenue source (as are fees IMO). They tax cars, homes, RV’s etc....has that led to less vehicles, housing in this country? I think the correct way to say it is more regulation and enforcement will achieve that same result...as far as this topic is concerned.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

You want houses sitting on the market for six + months? Because that’s exactly what I have. The guy two doors down from me has been on the market for almost a year. Same thing all over this community. We have a LOT of houses for sale, from condos all the way up to a million +.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Perhaps not



Where has any two or three bedroom house been torn down and replaced by a multi-unit facility with a front desk? You can name it a hotel to try to make your point but that doesn't change reality. It is still a single family home with the normal number of persons residing in it.

Folks should not make assumptions, folks should make themselves aware of laws and covenants and what rights they and their neighbors have. This discussion seems to be about buyer's remorse and a desire to take away neighbor's rights to quell that remorse.



STRs are currently situated exactly where they belong.

Demanding legislation that will result in vacant homes, an increase in homes on the market, the loss of property rights, increased restrictions and higher taxes just doesn't sound like a path to increased home values.

Bill, I love you!!

[Randall55]

You want houses sitting on the market for six + months? Because that’s exactly what I have. The guy two doors down from me has been on the market for almost a year. Same thing all over this community. We have a LOT of houses for sale, from condos all the way up to a million +.MLS is sitting with relatively the same amount of homes as the past 10 years +. The lag is found in no interest. Your neighbor, like many others in the community, most likely have no foot traffic. In years past, buyers were lining up. Are people not buying because the homes are over priced? Mortgage rates? Who knows? If this bill is passed, it may cause more inventory. In a market that is already slowing, this spells TROUBLE.

[Normal]

You want houses sitting on the market for six + months? Because that’s exactly what I have. The guy two doors down from me has been on the market for almost a year. Same thing all over this community. We have a LOT of houses for sale, from condos all the way up to a million +.

It is easy to fix the issue, just cut the price? Maybe whoever is selling, is asking more than what someone is willing to pay?

[Randall55]

It is easy to fix the issue, just cut the price? Maybe whoever is selling, is asking more than what someone is willing to pay?Reducing the price is possible with an owner who bought before the post covid surge. They will still see substantial profit. Considering closing costs, those who bought after covid cannot reduce the price unless they are willing to lose money or break even. IMO, if you do not plan on living in your home until you die, this is a terrible time to buy.

[BrianL99]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.


You want houses sitting on the market for six + months? Because that’s exactly what I have. The guy two doors down from me has been on the market for almost a year. Same thing all over this community. We have a LOT of houses for sale, from condos all the way up to a million +.

Actually, I'd love to see houses sitting on the market for 6+ months. It's what all the dopes who are confused about why we buy homes, deserve.

In another life, some years back, I was a housing policy advisor to a Governor and have some strong opinions on the subject. That doesn't make me right, it only means that I've been forced to think about the subject from a different perspective than most. I probably have stronger opinions on the subject than most, but that's just the way it goes, you can disagree.

Homes are just that, "homes". The purpose of homes, is shelter for people and families. Nothing more, nothing less.

We [the age demographic in TV] are the first generation in American history, who have expected to "inherit wealth", primarily derived from home appreciation of our parents. Prior to our generation, home appreciation was barely a blip on the radar.

We have now become a nation, whose market for shelter (homes) is driven by the notion that homes are a method to accumulate wealth. That is an "amateur investor" driven fallacy. Home appreciation in most cases, generates Monopoly money. It only becomes real money, when someone is able to actualize that money by making a major change in their life [moving, typically].

If every home in your chosen neighborhood appreciated 50% over-night, what did you gain? NOTHING if you want to continue to live in your neighborhood. You may be able to actualize some of that appreciation, but you have to change your life to do it (move).

Now we have folks coming on here and pontificating about how STR's are raising home values and should continue. Amateur hour.

Yep, STR's can help drive home prices higher, but again ... you need to do something affirmative to actualize that money. There are only (2) ways to actualize your accumulated "Monopoly money". You can move to a new neighborhood that's cheaper (hasn't been infected by the inflation caused by STR's) or .... stay where you are and live in a neighborhood that's turned into a commercial district, Your choice.

(The other option is to die and leave your appreciation to your children, who may or may not be able to actualize it.)

It seems to me, that people in their 60's and 70's should have seen enough of life by now, to realize living in a neighborhood they love, is more important than their home "appreciating" 10% per year. We should all be smart enough by now to realize, a "home" is shelter, not an investment.

Allowing professional investors and speculators to drive home prices in your neighborhood, is self-defeating if you want to live there. Allowing amateurs to do it, is even dumber.

As for the poster who said that STR's are no different than single-family homes and don't stress an infra-structure ... you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

STR's at a minimum, increase occupancy rates of "seasonal homes" that are now used year around. A 12 year old can see that.

STR's are invariably occupied (by definition) folks who are temporary and want to get maximum value for their rental money. Utilize amenities/events/conveniences to the max. Squeeze as much "vacation" into their vacation as they can. Who wouldn't?

Take a 6 month vacation home and rent it out for the 6 months you're not using it, nearly doubles the strain on an infrastructure ... simple, basic, 6th grade math.

STR's contribute nothing towards the purpose of what homes are intended for ... shelter.

STR's provide investment opportunities, for amateurs in most cases. For a price, folks get a temporary base of operations, to take part in the extraneous benefits of a location. Pools, restaurants, golf courses, tennis courts, walking paths, weather, etc. Sounds suspiciously like a hotel to me.

We're all sort of doing that in The Villages, but at least the folks who bought homes as year around or seasonal shelters, have made a significant investment. Allowing those investments to be de-valued by investors who now want to be in the hotel business on the cheap, is lunacy.

At a minimum, the new amendments to Florida legislation will allow the state to collect taxes due and increase the financial burden the amateur hotel owners will have to absorb.

[Normal]

Reducing the price is possible with an owner who bought before the post covid surge. They will still see substantial profit. Considering closing costs, those who bought after covid cannot reduce the price unless they are willing to lose money or break even. IMO, if you do not plan on living in your home until you die, this is a terrible time to buy.

That is a tough scenario. IMHO many homes south of 44 are within this purchasing window. I think the days of the quick money are over for those who were building on view lots and reselling them 2 years later? Square footage prices will obviously zero out at about 190-200 a square foot on basic spec home construction. “View lots” should be right at about 225-230 a square. Then again age, location, pools etc will change those means.

The Fed has some concerned with their lending rate and its impact on treasuries and for good reason. Buyers aren’t willing to accept the 7 point charge yet. The savvy know mortgage applications have dropped like a rock. Yes, some pay cash for homes, but that could be contingent on selling a home elsewhere.

If you were to buy now, it could be considered “pound foolish”. The bottom isn’t here yet and the market isn’t changing overnight. Waiting on the sidelines as a spectator is the safest route. I still think end of summer 2024 will be the best bottom to purchase?

[GizmoWhiskers]

Actually, I'd love to see houses sitting on the market for 6+ months. It's what all the dopes who are confused about why we buy homes, deserve.

In another life, some years back, I was a housing policy advisor to a Governor and have some strong opinions on the subject. That doesn't make me right, it only means that I've been forced to think about the subject from a different perspective than most. I probably have stronger opinions on the subject than most, but that's just the way it goes, you can disagree.

Homes are just that, "homes". The purpose of homes, is shelter for people and families. Nothing more, nothing less.

We [the age demographic in TV] are the first generation in American history, who have expected to "inherit wealth", primarily derived from home appreciation of our parents. Prior to our generation, home appreciation was barely a blip on the radar.

We have now become a nation, whose market for shelter (homes) is driven by the notion that homes are a method to accumulate wealth. That is an "amateur investor" driven fallacy. Home appreciation in most cases, generates Monopoly money. It only becomes real money, when someone is able to actualize that money by making a major change in their life [moving, typically].

If every home in your chosen neighborhood appreciated 50% over-night, what did you gain? NOTHING if you want to continue to live in your neighborhood. You may be able to actualize some of that appreciation, but you have to change your life to do it (move).

Now we have folks coming on here and pontificating about how STR's are raising home values and should continue. Amateur hour.

Yep, STR's can help drive home prices higher, but again ... you need to do something affirmative to actualize that money. There are only (2) ways to actualize your accumulated "Monopoly money". You can move to a new neighborhood that's cheaper (hasn't been infected by the inflation caused by STR's) or .... stay where you are and live in a neighborhood that's turned into a commercial district, Your choice.

(The other option is to die and leave your appreciation to your children, who may or may not be able to actualize it.)

It seems to me, that people in their 60's and 70's should have seen enough of life by now, to realize living in a neighborhood they love, is more important than their home "appreciating" 10% per year. We should all be smart enough by now to realize, a "home" is shelter, not an investment.

Allowing professional investors and speculators to drive home prices in your neighborhood, is self-defeating if you want to live there. Allowing amateurs to do it, is even dumber.

As for the poster who said that STR's are no different than single-family homes and don't stress an infra-structure ... you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

STR's at a minimum, increase occupancy rates of "seasonal homes" that are now used year around. A 12 year old can see that.

STR's are invariably occupied (by definition) folks who are temporary and want to get maximum value for their rental money. Utilize amenities/events/conveniences to the max. Squeeze as much "vacation" into their vacation as they can. Who wouldn't?

Take a 6 month vacation home and rent it out for the 6 months you're not using it, nearly doubles the strain on an infrastructure ... simple, basic, 6th grade math.

STR's contribute nothing towards the purpose of what homes are intended for ... shelter.

STR's provide investment opportunities, for amateurs in most cases. For a price, folks get a temporary base of operations, to take part in the extraneous benefits of a location. Pools, restaurants, golf courses, tennis courts, walking paths, weather, etc. Sounds suspiciously like a hotel to me.

We're all sort of doing that in The Villages, but at least the folks who bought homes as year around or seasonal shelters, have made a significant investment. Allowing those investments to be de-valued by investors who now want to be in the hotel business on the cheap, is lunacy.

At a minimum, the new amendments to Florida legislation will allow the state to collect taxes due and increase the financial burden the amateur hotel owners will have to absorb.
Exactly, what you said!

[Randall55]

That is a tough scenario. IMHO many homes south of 44 are within this purchasing window. I think the days of the quick money are over for those who were building on view lots and reselling them 2 years later? Square footage prices will obviously zero out at about 190-200 a square foot on basic spec home construction. “View lots” should be right at about 225-230 a square. Then again age, location, pools etc will change those means.

The Fed has some concerned with their lending rate and its impact on treasuries and for good reason. Buyers aren’t willing to accept the 7 point charge yet. The savvy know mortgage applications have dropped like a rock. Yes, some pay cash for homes, but that could be contingent on selling a home elsewhere.

If you were to buy now, it could be considered “pound foolish”. The bottom isn’t here yet and the market isn’t changing overnight. Waiting on the sidelines as a spectator is the safest route. I still think end of summer 2024 will be the best bottom to purchase?I have been flipping homes in the Villages for many years. In my experience, homes with views keep their value and are easy to flip for substantial profit. All you need is that ONE BUYER.

I believe cookie cutter homes with no views are experiencing the most difficulty in this market. When every home looks exactly the same as others, buyers have the advantage.

We sold our home for substantial profit a few months ago. We are currently renting. We believe the end of summer will reveal what is going to happen with this market. As a flipper, I am hoping the prices go up. Most likely, this is not going to happen.

[Sandy and Ed]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.
Well said. STR do not make community.

[Normal]

I have been flipping homes in the Villages for many years. In my experience, homes with views keep their value and are easy to flip for substantial profit. All you need is that ONE BUYER.

I believe cookie cutter homes with no views are experiencing the most difficulty in this market. When every home looks exactly the same as others, buyers have the advantage.

We sold our home for substantial profit a few months ago. We are currently renting. We believe the end of summer will reveal what is going to happen with this market. As a flipper, I am hoping the prices go up. Most likely, this is not going to happen.

I certainly agree with most of what you have said. It will be interesting to see if post construction contractors and home improvement companies feel the pinch. If they do, that would be the very bad sign and all bets would be off for improvement in the housing economy here. You are wise to rent for the time being.

Things to look for would be competitive pricing between landscapers or pool builders.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Love how these threads grow tentacles and stray off of the original topic. I'm guilty as well. This bill is about accountability and fairness. Most of these STR in question are usually owned by individuals that don't know nor care about quality of life....its only about the bottom line. So if this initiative hits in the wallet and makes someone whole with their municipality and more importantly their neighbors...im all in.

[defrey12]

Perhaps not



Where has any two or three bedroom house been torn down and replaced by a multi-unit facility with a front desk? You can name it a hotel to try to make your point but that doesn't change reality. It is still a single family home with the normal number of persons residing in it.

Folks should not make assumptions, folks should make themselves aware of laws and covenants and what rights they and their neighbors have. This discussion seems to be about buyer's remorse and a desire to take away neighbor's rights to quell that remorse.



STRs are currently situated exactly where they belong.

Demanding legislation that will result in vacant homes, an increase in homes on the market, the loss of property rights, increased restrictions and higher taxes just doesn't sound like a path to increased home values.

To ALL here in this thread: One need only look to the City of St Augustine to see how an EQUITABLE system of STRs can work for everyone: owners, neighbors, and municipalities alike. We had a rental house there. We know. We opted for long-term vs the “revolving door” model due to the parking requirements: one EXTERIOR space per bedroom. Home values there have not suffered in the least. That would put an end to most short-term three bedroom rentals in TV. Right now there are ZERO protections in Sumter county.

[defrey12]

You know what they say; "If you want less of something, tax it". In this case that would be a good thing.

Well said!

[jimdecastro]

Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.

I have to say, I am not happy about short term rentals, but at the same time, I would not be happy being told what to do with my property. That being said, I am a full-time homeowner and only own the one property so this law does not apply to me. There's only one rental nearby, and so far there have been no issues, but I truly understand the urgency of this issue for some people in TV.

[Proveone]

Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.
Who Cares!

[Regorp]

It's a reaction to the AirBnB lawsuits all over the United States. States/municipalities want AirBnB to collect taxes. AirBnB says they're an innocent 3rd party.

While the bill re-iterates local jurisdiction's authority to issue and/or suspend licenses and such, the primary motivation seems to be an effort to make sure Florida gets all the taxes its due.

AirBNB should be outlawed within The Villages.

[BrianL99]

To ALL here in this thread: One need only look to the City of St Augustine to see how an EQUITABLE system of STRs can work for everyone: owners, neighbors, and municipalities alike. We had a rental house there. We know. We opted for long-term vs the “revolving door” model due to the parking requirements: one EXTERIOR space per bedroom. Home values there have not suffered in the least. That would put an end to most short-term three bedroom rentals in TV. Right now there are ZERO protections in Sumter county.

Almost invariably, STR's work only to the benefit of the owner's of the STR's and the businesses that support their guests.

There is not a neighborhood on earth, that has maintained it's personality (for better or worse) as a result of an influx of STR's.

Anyone who says STR's have not affected their neighbors or the neighborhood, is delusional.

[Bill14564]

Almost invariably, STR's work only to the benefit of the owner's of the STR's and the businesses that support their guests.

There is not a neighborhood on earth, that has maintained it's personality (for better or worse) as a result of an influx of STR's.

Anyone who says STR's have not affected their neighbors or the neighborhood, is delusional.

They also work to the benefit of the renters.

The vast majority of those who feel affected by STRs admire Gladys Kravitz.

That unruly group that rented the place down the street last week? They left last week. That neighbor with the noisy habits? He's been there five years now and isn't going anywhere soon. I know which I would prefer but that just shows I'm delusional.

[BrianL99]

I would not be happy being told what to do with my property.


The Villages was probably not a great choice for you.

... or any other community that has Zoning Regulations.

[margaretmattson]

They also work to the benefit of the renters.

The vast majority of those who feel affected by STRs admire Gladys Kravitz.

That unruly group that rented the place down the street last week? They left last week. That neighbor with the noisy habits? He's been there five years now and isn't going anywhere soon. I know which I would prefer but that just shows I'm delusional.I lived in a CYV with several rentals on my street. During the winter months, there were few problems. The homes were rented for the entire month to individuals who cared about our community.

When high season was over, owners would rent their homes to ANYONE for one day, two days, a week, whatever! Any amount of time to anyone willing to give them money. It was unnerving because deed restrictions were broken and we were told nothing could be done about it because the parties involved were renters. They did not agree to the deed restrictions and therefore they do not apply to them.

When a resident breaks a deed restriction, you can report it. Hopefully, a resolution will be made to satisfy both of you. Believe me! You would rather have the option of reporting instead of no options.

[Bill14564]

I lived in a CYV with several rentals on my street. During the winter months, there were few problems. The homes were rented for the entire month to individuals who cared about our community.

When high season was over, owners would rent their homes to ANYONE for one day, two days, a week, whatever! Any amount of time to anyone willing to give them money. It was unnerving because deed restrictions were broken and we were told nothing could be done about it because the parties involved were renters. They did not agree to the deed restrictions and therefore they do not apply to them.

When a resident breaks a deed restriction, you can report it. Hopefully, a resolution will be made to satisfy both of you. Believe me! You would rather have the option of reporting instead of no options.

The occupant of the home is not bound by the deed restrictions, the owner of the home is. Whether the occupant is a two-day renter, two-month renter, or two-year renter, the deed restrictions still apply to the person whose name is on the deed.

If there are deed restriction violations, report them and let the process work. There are limitations to the process and some may be good at finding all the loopholes but I bet most can't. Your case may be the exception but I am willing to bet that most of those against STR have spent far more time complaining about perceived problems here than they have spent documenting and reporting actual violations.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Not to mix topics but all of this reminded me of another....

To the poster that wanted to eradicate AirBnb, good luck with that. Here’s why; Those of us that are from the north east remember when taxi cab operators had to go in front of the various licensing authorities (ie; city councils etc) and submit to extensive background checks, proof of workman’s comp insurance and police approvals amongst other check offs. In major cities, Hackney licenses used to be worth in some cases six figures....now the paper and metal used for medallions is worth more than the license. Municipalities had designated taxi cab parking spots in convenient areas. Then along come rideshares. Autonomous from city ordinances and permitting....stop short wherever they want to board/unboard....and in some cases assault women and passengers, to name a few. I watched a city council meeting recently in a community adjacent to Logan airport in Boston. They receive ten cents for every ride share and asked the council to approve the remittance.....91K. A pittance. So again, I’m in favor of this bill in spirit but as always, the devils in the details...and in its performance.

[margaretmattson]

The occupant of the home is not bound by the deed restrictions, the owner of the home is. Whether the occupant is a two-day renter, two-month renter, or two-year renter, the deed restrictions still apply to the person whose name is on the deed.

If there are deed restriction violations, report them and let the process work. There are limitations to the process and some may be good at finding all the loopholes but I bet most can't. Your case may be the exception but I am willing to bet that most of those against STR have spent far more time complaining about perceived problems here than they have spent documenting and reporting actual violations.I am not going to argue with you. I lived it! Each time, as in your response, I was blamed for what others were doing. You have no idea if I documented the violations or what I was told. Yet, you are willing to throw the blame my way. This happened to us over and over until we gave up and moved.

My story has a happy ending. We now live in a wonderful neighborhood were there are no STRS. Life is good! I can now see why others believe STRS are not a problem. Out of sight, out of mind.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So - presently, there's nothing stopping some incredibly wealthy person, or developer, from buying an entire block of a neighborhood's homes. And then, renting them out for a 3-day minimum, 10-day maximum, and calling it a resort area within the community. You could easily have transients take over the entire neighborhood, and there'd be nothing you could do about it, because - there's no rule saying someone can't, and there are rules saying that they can.

Because of the advent of internet-based rentals, which didn't exist when The Villages was first created, I think new zoning laws need to be implemented to preserve the integrity of a neighborhood's function. And that is - to be strictly a residential community, and not a short term rental resort community.

New deed restrictions on new construction could be implemented to restrict short-term rentals to a 10-day MINIMUM stay, with leases required, no sub-leases allowed, and the property must be overseen by a property management company when the owners aren't occupying the property.

These new restrictions could even be made to new ownership, rather than new construction. If you buy a home starting next Thursday, these rules apply to you. Whether it's a new home or pre-owned home. People think that deed restrictions can't be changed. They can. It's very difficult and involves a lot of paperwork and hoop-jumping, but they can absolutely be changed. It's also more likely to be changeable when it's imposed only on new construction, or new ownership, because current homeowners are less likely to object to what new owners must/must not do after the current owners have relinquished their property to someone else.

[margaretmattson]

So - presently, there's nothing stopping some incredibly wealthy person, or developer, from buying an entire block of a neighborhood's homes. And then, renting them out for a 3-day minimum, 10-day maximum, and calling it a resort area within the community. You could easily have transients take over the entire neighborhood, and there'd be nothing you could do about it, because - there's no rule saying someone can't, and there are rules saying that they can.

Because of the advent of internet-based rentals, which didn't exist when The Villages was first created, I think new zoning laws need to be implemented to preserve the integrity of a neighborhood's function. And that is - to be strictly a residential community, and not a short term rental resort community.

New deed restrictions on new construction could be implemented to restrict short-term rentals to a 10-day MINIMUM stay, with leases required, no sub-leases allowed, and the property must be overseen by a property management company when the owners aren't occupying the property.

These new restrictions could even be made to new ownership, rather than new construction. If you buy a home starting next Thursday, these rules apply to you. Whether it's a new home or pre-owned home. People think that deed restrictions can't be changed. They can. It's very difficult and involves a lot of paperwork and hoop-jumping, but they can absolutely be changed. It's also more likely to be changeable when it's imposed only on new construction, or new ownership, because current homeowners are less likely to object to what new owners must/must not do after the current owners have relinquished their property to someone else.It seems you have described a Lifestyle Visit. It will be interesting to see what the Developer does once this bill has passed. The lifestyle visits are no longer in neighborhood CYVs with its own pool. They are now in patio villas. Perhaps, the Developer got a whiff of the new state laws.

In my prior neighborhood, STRs were not planned. They were born out of necessity and greed.

1. The original owner passed and the child wishes to keep the home but is not ready to retire. Brilliant! I'll rent it out until I am ready to occupy it.

2. One of the owners has a serious medical condition and the bills are getting out of hand. Solution? Rent our property for added income.

3. Seasonal residents cannot find a responsible person to look after their homes while they are away. Why pay someone to take our money and not do as promised? Rent the home while we are away and those occupants can take care of the home. What a great idea! Someone PAYS US and does the job. Win, win!

4. Someone near retirement purchases a home to safeguard themselves from soaring home prices. They now own two homes and see no problem with renting until they are comfortable. They could care less if this makes their future neighbors uncomfortable. It's all about me!

There are more scenarios, but you get the picture.

We did have one man who owned several investment properties. He was the worst! With him, everything was about money.

[Greatlawn]

Maybe this is an attempt to enforce collection and payment of the 9% state tax on short term rentals. It could also make rental income visible to the IRS.

[jimjamuser]

I’ve got no problem with local jurisdictions collecting taxes. Actually, I would have thought they already did. But I do have a problem with cracking down on STR’s. It’s been shown in areas that have put rules in place, like saying that you can only do monthly rentals, that it drags down valuations of houses.
I would think that it would take the value of houses UP if there were LESS rentals in any given area. Home owners take care of their homes. People renting may or may NOT care about that property.

[jimjamuser]

hoping for / looking for increasing house prices isn't the goal you really want to have.

substantial increases greater than general inflation brings its own issues, including increases in insurance rates greater than inflation, potential increases in tax rates, inability for support/service labor to live here, and you can't spend it to pay for bills. . .

Colorado Ski Town Can't Fill $167,000 Salary Job Due to Housing Costs (https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-ski-town-steamboat-springs-high-housing-costs-2024-3)

I don't get the goal for increasing one's economic shelter costs or illiquid asset value unless you can monetize it easily and cheaply. excessive Increases in house value is just an ego massage, as its expensive to monetize it to pay bigger bills.
I guess you could monetize a home that was up significantly in value by SELLING and moving to a cheaper area. But, most Florida retirees would NOT like the cold weather in western Maine or some such place.

[fdpaq0580]

Who Cares!

I care! You should to. Unless you don't live here.

[merrymini]

STRs do not belong in this community. The renters simply do not care and neither do the owners or they would allow their house to be leased that way. They especially do not care about YOU, their neighbor. File a complaint? The renters are long gone before anything can be done. Rules can be enacted that restrict that behavior and they should be, restricted STRs would benefit our communities not hurt them. What are hotels for but STRs? Let them go the Waterfront Inn, the Brownwood Hotel or any of the other nearby hotels but keep them out of our communities.

[Shipping up to Boston]

STRs do not belong in this community. The renters simply do not care and neither do the owners or they would allow their house to be leased that way. They especially do not care about YOU, their neighbor. File a complaint? The renters are long gone before anything can be done. Rules can be enacted that restrict that behavior and they should be, restricted STRs would benefit our communities not hurt them. What are hotels for but STRs? Let them go the Waterfront Inn, the Brownwood Hotel or any of the other nearby hotels but keep them out of our communities.

Unless I'm confused, this bill attempts to collect fees/taxes. By doing so you have contact info and thus can hold said party accountable via administrative/lien actions for non payment. It does not eradicate STR, if that is your wish. The hope, once again, is to make individual owners that choose to rent, accountable. If TV as an entity didn't want STR im sure the practice would disappear. It doesn't appear that is the case

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It seems you have described a Lifestyle Visit. It will be interesting to see what the Developer does once this bill has passed. The lifestyle visits are no longer in neighborhood CYVs with its own pool. They are now in patio villas. Perhaps, the Developer got a whiff of the new state laws.

In my prior neighborhood, STRs were not planned. They were born out of necessity and greed.

1. The original owner passed and the child wishes to keep the home but is not ready to retire. Brilliant! I'll rent it out until I am ready to occupy it.

2. One of the owners has a serious medical condition and the bills are getting out of hand. Solution? Rent our property for added income.

3. Seasonal residents cannot find a responsible person to look after their homes while they are away. Why pay someone to take our money and not do as promised? Rent the home while we are away and those occupants can take care of the home. What a great idea! Someone PAYS US and does the job. Win, win!

4. Someone near retirement purchases a home to safeguard themselves from soaring home prices. They now own two homes and see no problem with renting until they are comfortable. They could care less if this makes their future neighbors uncomfortable. It's all about me!

There are more scenarios, but you get the picture.

We did have one man who owned several investment properties. He was the worst! With him, everything was about money.

My response is general -

All other than the "buying another home as an investment property" can be totally fine with my previous suggestion, because they can ALL happen with an imposed 10-day minimum stay with leases, and property managers to take care of the property when the owners aren't occupying it.

Hometown Property Management does a bang-up job of helping homeowners find tenants for their properties, and taking care of the properties when the homeowners are away. They offer weekly and monthly rentals and the rates vary between $600/week to $7000/month depending on time of year and type of home being rented.

They're not the only property management company but they are the most known, the most respected, and the ones who have the most investment in the community to ensure that the property is properly maintained - Tom Conklin, the principal of the company, is a project manager for the developer.

As for multiple investments - the developer doesn't care how many properties you buy. But the zoning officer of a municipality might care. It'd be up to the city/county zoning department to declare that anyone who buys a single-family house but doesn't occupy that house at least 2 months out of the year (or has a designated family member occupy it at least 2 months out of the year), must pay a penalty. Of course they also don't get homestead tax benefits, but this could become a deterrent to investment ownership rather than occupant-ownership. Another option would be to allow only one pair of IDs per owner, rather than per property. If you own 6 houses, you still only get 2 IDs, and only 2 gate passes (which only matters if you're going to Walmart on 441 but it's the principal of the thing).

So yes- you COULD buy a second property here. But unless you're playing musical living rooms with your own family, it'll cost you extra, and will be made intentionally less convenient.

[Normal]

The issue seems to be entirely voted for through political interest, not necessarily the will of the people. If the issue were placed as a public vote, STRs would be voted against hands down. No one wants to live next to one, congrats on catering to your campaign donors Florida House, Senate and governor. Forget the people, go for the money.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The issue seems to be entirely voted for through political interest, not necessarily the will of the people. If the issue were placed as a public vote, STRs would be voted against hands down. No one wants to live next to one, congrats on catering to your campaign donors Florida House, Senate and governor. Forget the people, go for the money.

The problem is that The Villages is spread across three different counties, there are multiple quasi-municipal governments within the community, each in charge, of their own districts. To compound the complexity, it's a deed-restricted community, with rules and regulations supposedly MUCH more strict than the towns and counties in which they are built. They still have to abide by the zoning laws of the counties. And that's really the only place where you can address the matter of short-term rentals for *existing* properties.

New properties in new neighborhoods that haven't had their deed restrictions written yet - can absolutely forbid short-term rentals. But it's the developer who writes these deed restrictions. And they don't care who lives in the house after they've been paid the purchase price from the original sale. It's not in their best financial interest to restrict who is and is not allowed to buy the homes they build.

[Bill14564]

The issue seems to be entirely voted for through political interest, not necessarily the will of the people. If the issue were placed as a public vote, STRs would be voted against hands down. No one wants to live next to one, congrats on catering to your campaign donors Florida House, Senate and governor. Forget the people, go for the money.

Many of those people either own STRs or simply don’t want to lose property rights. Count me in the latter group. I will argue all day long for the STRs because I live with enough Govt already and don’t want more.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Unless I'm confused, this bill attempts to collect fees/taxes. By doing so you have contact info and thus can hold said party accountable via administrative/lien actions for non payment. It does not eradicate STR, if that is your wish. The hope, once again, is to make individual owners that choose to rent, accountable. If TV as an entity didn't want STR im sure the practice would disappear. It doesn't appear that is the case

Correct on all cases.

Airbnb has lots of issues. I have read where lawyers who owned an Airbnb tried to discontinue the service with Airbnb, and Airbnb just kept advertising the property, no regard for the owner's request, until he sued them.

FL also is that third world county, as a local lawyer told us straight out, FL has excessive amounts of fraud and its everywhere.

[Randall55]

The problem is that The Villages is spread across three different counties, there are multiple quasi-municipal governments within the community, each in charge, of their own districts. To compound the complexity, it's a deed-restricted community, with rules and regulations supposedly MUCH more strict than the towns and counties in which they are built. They still have to abide by the zoning laws of the counties. And that's really the only place where you can address the matter of short-term rentals for *existing* properties.

New properties in new neighborhoods that haven't had their deed restrictions written yet - can absolutely forbid short-term rentals. But it's the developer who writes these deed restrictions. And they don't care who lives in the house after they've been paid the purchase price from the original sale. It's not in their best financial interest to restrict who is and is not allowed to buy the homes they build.Fenney had a no rentals clause in their deed restrictions at one time. It has since been removed. The Developer has no desire to restrict them. Or, someone pursued legal action and he was forced to remove the clause from the deed restrictions.

[BrianL99]

Not to mix topics but all of this reminded me of another....

To the poster that wanted to eradicate AirBnb, good luck with that. Here’s why; Those of us that are from the north east remember when taxi cab operators had to go in front of the various licensing authorities (ie; city councils etc) and submit to extensive background checks, proof of workman’s comp insurance and police approvals amongst other check offs. In major cities, Hackney licenses used to be worth in some cases six figures....now the paper and metal used for medallions is worth more than the license. Municipalities had designated taxi cab parking spots in convenient areas. Then along come rideshares. Autonomous from city ordinances and permitting....stop short wherever they want to board/unboard....and in some cases assault women and passengers, to name a few. I watched a city council meeting recently in a community adjacent to Logan airport in Boston. They receive ten cents for every ride share and asked the council to approve the remittance.....91K. A pittance. So again, I’m in favor of this bill in spirit but as always, the devils in the details...and in its performance.


Someone I knew (Sid Pallin), was the largest private Taxi Medallion owner in Boston. Of the 1800+ Medallions in Boston, he owned about 500 of them. They were valued at $750,000 each. Medallions in NYC were over $1,000,000. They have virtual no value today and yours is a perfect analogy. Uber took over that business and AirBnB wants to take over the hotel & rental market ... & they will.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Was his initials ET?

[Normal]

Many of those people either own STRs or simply don’t want to lose property rights. Count me in the latter group. I will argue all day long for the STRs because I live with enough Govt already and don’t want more.

I certainly understand your view, but I also support the freedom of all the residents of Florida who are against STRs. Perhaps there is a happy medium. Maybe specified rental areas? If a resident bought a home for a residence, they should be able to enjoy it in safety, security and serenity without external destabilization of their neighborhood. I don’t think renters or landlords are bad, I just think a person should be able to enjoy their neighborhood they bought into if the perception is it would be strictly residential.

[BrianL99]

Every time the subject of STR's come up, the same folks seem to post their quasi-legal opinions and spout the delusion position, that STR's can or will be or should be, outlawed.

The Tourist trade contributed about $130 BILLION to Florida's economy in 2023.

Tourism generated $16 BILLION in state and local tax revenue.

The State of Florida has zero interest in curtailing STR's. It would bankrupt the state.

All of which contribute to the reason the state has adopted regulations that prohibit cities, towns & counties, from messing with the STR business. They can regulate (to an extent), but cannot prohibit, nor adopt regulations regarding "duration".

& for all you folks who say that occupancy can be regulated, by requiring the owner to be present, that just isn't factual. Some communities are trying that approach, but they're all getting dragged into court and the smart money says they're going to lose.

The folks (same ones all the time) that say the Developer could, would, should control STR's, don't understand the Developer's business model.

Folks keep saying, "the Developer is only interested in selling homes". That statement shows a lack of understanding of business and the Developer's business model.

Every square inch of commercial space in The Villages, is owned by the Developer. At its core, Commercial real estate demand is driven by one and only one factor. The amount of business a company can do, that's location driven. In this instance, "location driven", means (3) things. Location, demographic and population.

If the Developer woke up tomorrow and said ... "no more rentals in TV", what would happen? The value of his commercial holdings would tank over-night. 30-40% of the potential customers of the various businesses, would be gone.

The numbers are probably worst than I'm guessing, because renters/vacationers spend more money than residents. More dining out, more shopping, more golf, more of everything. Unless it was to the Developer's interests, why would he/she get involved in the quagmire of STR regulation?

The only possible change in in the rental/STR side of The Villages, would be if the CCD's took some tighter control over Guest Passes & (non)-Resident ID's. Considering the Developer essentially controls the CDD's, that's fairly unlikely. Then again, I've heard some people have been struck by lightening, twice.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

It is easy to fix the issue, just cut the price? Maybe whoever is selling, is asking more than what someone is willing to pay?

Prices are being cut all over, even mine. We’ve lowered it three times by about 50K. Nobody is buying!

[Randall55]

Prices are being cut all over, even mine. We’ve lowered it three times by about 50K. Nobody is buying!Very true. I am seeing this happen throughout the Villages. A few owners are hitting the jackpot but most can't even get a bite. Oddly, the Village of Moultrie Creek is selling like hot cakes. It is a strange market!

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Actually, I'd love to see houses sitting on the market for 6+ months. It's what all the dopes who are confused about why we buy homes, deserve.

In another life, some years back, I was a housing policy advisor to a Governor and have some strong opinions on the subject. That doesn't make me right, it only means that I've been forced to think about the subject from a different perspective than most. I probably have stronger opinions on the subject than most, but that's just the way it goes, you can disagree.

Homes are just that, "homes". The purpose of homes, is shelter for people and families. Nothing more, nothing less.

We [the age demographic in TV] are the first generation in American history, who have expected to "inherit wealth", primarily derived from home appreciation of our parents. Prior to our generation, home appreciation was barely a blip on the radar.

We have now become a nation, whose market for shelter (homes) is driven by the notion that homes are a method to accumulate wealth. That is an "amateur investor" driven fallacy. Home appreciation in most cases, generates Monopoly money. It only becomes real money, when someone is able to actualize that money by making a major change in their life [moving, typically].

If every home in your chosen neighborhood appreciated 50% over-night, what did you gain? NOTHING if you want to continue to live in your neighborhood. You may be able to actualize some of that appreciation, but you have to change your life to do it (move).

Now we have folks coming on here and pontificating about how STR's are raising home values and should continue. Amateur hour.

Yep, STR's can help drive home prices higher, but again ... you need to do something affirmative to actualize that money. There are only (2) ways to actualize your accumulated "Monopoly money". You can move to a new neighborhood that's cheaper (hasn't been infected by the inflation caused by STR's) or .... stay where you are and live in a neighborhood that's turned into a commercial district, Your choice.

(The other option is to die and leave your appreciation to your children, who may or may not be able to actualize it.)

It seems to me, that people in their 60's and 70's should have seen enough of life by now, to realize living in a neighborhood they love, is more important than their home "appreciating" 10% per year. We should all be smart enough by now to realize, a "home" is shelter, not an investment.

Allowing professional investors and speculators to drive home prices in your neighborhood, is self-defeating if you want to live there. Allowing amateurs to do it, is even dumber.

As for the poster who said that STR's are no different than single-family homes and don't stress an infra-structure ... you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

STR's at a minimum, increase occupancy rates of "seasonal homes" that are now used year around. A 12 year old can see that.

STR's are invariably occupied (by definition) folks who are temporary and want to get maximum value for their rental money. Utilize amenities/events/conveniences to the max. Squeeze as much "vacation" into their vacation as they can. Who wouldn't?

Take a 6 month vacation home and rent it out for the 6 months you're not using it, nearly doubles the strain on an infrastructure ... simple, basic, 6th grade math.

STR's contribute nothing towards the purpose of what homes are intended for ... shelter.

STR's provide investment opportunities, for amateurs in most cases. For a price, folks get a temporary base of operations, to take part in the extraneous benefits of a location. Pools, restaurants, golf courses, tennis courts, walking paths, weather, etc. Sounds suspiciously like a hotel to me.

We're all sort of doing that in The Villages, but at least the folks who bought homes as year around or seasonal shelters, have made a significant investment. Allowing those investments to be de-valued by investors who now want to be in the hotel business on the cheap, is lunacy.

At a minimum, the new amendments to Florida legislation will allow the state to collect taxes due and increase the financial burden the amateur hotel owners will have to absorb.

I hear what you are saying. What you don’t realize is it keeps people from buying a house. I will go there and rent an STR until my house sells, something you are trying to prevent.

[Randall55]

I hear what you are saying. What you don’t realize is it keeps people from buying a house. I will go there and rent an STR until my house sells, something you are trying to prevent.No one is trying to stop STRS. It is illegal because we are a free enterprise state. With this bill, an owner must register their rental with their local government. It addresses how many can occupy the home (two per room) and someone must be available 24 hrs a day to address complaints. It imposes fines and possible suspensions for those who do not abide by the new law.

It is not an attempt to curtail but to regulate. The state has no dominion over private property. They do have power to regulate a business. Many legislators are making certain that line is not crossed with this bill.

Simply put, the state cannot tell a homeowner he/she cannot rent their property. However, they can regulate their decision to operate a business.

[mntlblok]

The only possible change in in the rental/STR side of The Villages, would be if the CCD's took some tighter control over Guest Passes & (non)-Resident ID's. Considering the Developer essentially controls the CDD's, that's fairly unlikely. Then again, I've heard some people have been struck by lightening, twice.

"the Developer essentially controls the CDD's"

How does that work? TIA

[BrianL99]

"the Developer essentially controls the CDD's"

How does that work? TIA

Very well from the Developer's perspective.

Just Google Gary Search and/or Oren Miller.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Correct on all cases.

Airbnb has lots of issues. I have read where lawyers who owned an Airbnb tried to discontinue the service with Airbnb, and Airbnb just kept advertising the property, no regard for the owner's request, until he sued them.

FL also is that third world county, as a local lawyer told us straight out, FL has excessive amounts of fraud and its everywhere.

A litigious society!

[BrianL99]

Prices are being cut all over, even mine. We’ve lowered it three times by about 50K. Nobody is buying!

Home sales are up month over month for January 2024 and trending up, year over year, from 2023. United States Existing Home Sales (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/existing-home-sales)

If you lowered your price by $50,000 and haven't sold, you were way over-priced to begin with.

Plenty of people are buying, some of the folks selling, seem to be unrealistic about their home's worth in the marketplace. Lower your price another $50,000 and you'll probably sell it tomorrow.

[margaretmattson]

Home sales are up month over month for January 2024 and trending up, year over year, from 2023. United States Existing Home Sales (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/existing-home-sales)

If you lowered your price by $50,000 and haven't sold, you were way over-priced to begin with.

Plenty of people are buying, some of the folks selling, seem to be unrealistic about their home's worth in the marketplace. Lower your price another $50,000 and you'll probably sell it tomorrow.An average is not a good tool to use. In the Villages, some owners paid $500,000-$800,000 for their home. They are now selling at 1.2 - 2 million dollars. This skews the average cost of a home upward. You have to look at the median price of YOUR STYLE of home to determine its value. This is what realtors and appraisers do.

[BrianL99]

An average is not a good tool to use. In the Villages, some owners paid $500,000-$800,000 for their home. They are now selling at 1.2 - 2 million dollars. This skews the average cost of a home upward. You have to look at the median price of YOUR STYLE of home to determine its value. This is what realtors and appraisers do.

As a statistic, the # of home sales is unrelated to pricing.

As a statistic, the rate of home sales is unrelated to pricing.

As a statistic, the upward or downward trend in units sold or listed is unrelated to pricing.

As a practical matter, a "soft market" (in real estate) usually causes price compression. Higher priced homes decrease at a faster rate and lower priced home might actual trend upwards. Supply & demand and the elasticity of the demand curve (I think that's right word).

[margaretmattson]

As a statistic, the # of home sales is unrelated to pricing.

As a statistic, the rate of home sales is unrelated to pricing.

As a statistic, the upward or downward trend in units sold or listed is unrelated to pricing.

As a practical matter, a "soft market" (in real estate) usually causes price compression. Higher priced homes decrease at a faster rate and lower priced home might actual trend upwards. Supply & demand and the elasticity of the demand curve (I think that's right word).This is why realtors and appraisers use the median sales price of similar homes to price a new home on the market. But, thanks for rewording what I said.

This is easy to do yourself. Say you own a gardenia model.

1.go to vls and type in gardenia as your search. All gardenia models currently for sale will pop up.

2. Eliminate the homes that have a pool or a view if yours does not have this. Or vice versa.

3. Look at the prices of the homes remaining. Your actual sales price will most likely be the midpoint of these prices. You can attempt to ask higher, sometimes this works. For example: A cleaner home sells better than a messier one.

4. If your asking price is well above what others are asking, you are OVERPRICED.

[mntlblok]

Very well from the Developer's perspective.

Just Google Gary Search and/or Oren Miller.

Thank you. But, I'm guessing that this might not be the search result that I was expected to learn about that from. :-) Sham Conviction Overturned for Villages Politician Railroaded by Ron DeSantis (https://theintercept.com/2023/11/09/oren-miller-villages-ron-desantis/) Shall scroll a bit further down said search results.

[mntlblok]

Thank you. But, I'm guessing that this might not be the search result that I was expected to learn about that from. :-) Sham Conviction Overturned for Villages Politician Railroaded by Ron DeSantis (https://theintercept.com/2023/11/09/oren-miller-villages-ron-desantis/) Shall scroll a bit further down said search results.

Am I to get the sense that political donations are what might skew the operations of the CDDs? Have recently read similar things about the sugar business gaining outsized influence. Apparently the Fanjuls have members in both parties. :-) Never been a fan of mercantilism.

Have long wondered why it seems to be that only Illinois politicians ever get sent to prison over corruption issues. Well, maybe the occasional Louisiana one. . .

[BrianL99]

Am I to get the sense that political donations are what might skew the operations of the CDDs? Have recently read similar things about the sugar business gaining outsized influence. Apparently the Fanjuls have members in both parties. :-) Never been a fan of mercantilism.

Have long wondered why it seems to be that only Illinois politicians ever get sent to prison over corruption issues. Well, maybe the occasional Louisiana one. . .

Corporate (or any) "political contributions" aren't "corruption". It's been legalized, to the detriment of most of us.

& I think Louisiana on a % of population basis, is pretty close to Chicago.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Corporate (or any) "political contributions" aren't "corruption". It's been legalized, to the detriment of most of us.

& I think Louisiana on a % of population basis, is pretty close to Chicago.

Party blind....political ‘corruption’ transcends generations. It’s just easier today track it and it’s origins

[Normal]

This is why realtors and appraisers use the median sales price of similar homes to price a new home on the market. But, thanks for rewording what I said.

This is easy to do yourself. Say you own a gardenia model.

1.go to vls and type in gardenia as your search. All gardenia models currently for sale will pop up.

2. Eliminate the homes that have a pool or a view if yours does not have this. Or vice versa.

3. Look at the prices of the homes remaining. Your actual sales price will most likely be the midpoint of these prices. You can attempt to ask higher, sometimes this works. For example: A cleaner home sells better than a messier one.

4. If your asking price is well above what others are asking, you are OVERPRICED.

Had a neighbor a couple weeks back do the same thing but added a step. The gardenia was averaging 449K, they wanted to sell so they listed it at 419 and it sold right away. The more aggressive the price, the quicker it sells. They didn’t care for the competitive sales atmosphere and grandkids were the driving factor for moving back up north.

[jimjamuser]

Assuming you agreed with my premise. Not asking government to do it...want the onus on, in this case, the resort operators who are printing cash in places like SS and Aspen/Vail. Thus workforce housing development. Obviously CO just like FL would in similar circumstances, probably initiate tax breaks, TIFF and PILOT agreements to do so.
Sedona, Arizona is another area where the workers are needed, but can't afford to live there. The city put up a few mobile home areas, but most workers had to drive there from about 50 miles away, which they could afford. It was very much an area of the "haves and have NOTS"

[BrianL99]

This is why realtors and appraisers use the median sales price of similar homes to price a new home on the market. But, thanks for rewording what I said.

This is easy to do yourself. Say you own a gardenia model.

1.go to vls and type in gardenia as your search. All gardenia models currently for sale will pop up.

2. Eliminate the homes that have a pool or a view if yours does not have this. Or vice versa.

3. Look at the prices of the homes remaining. Your actual sales price will most likely be the midpoint of these prices. You can attempt to ask higher, sometimes this works. For example: A cleaner home sells better than a messier one.

4. If your asking price is well above what others are asking, you are OVERPRICED.


Had a neighbor a couple weeks back do the same thing but added a step. The gardenia was averaging 449K, they wanted to sell so they listed it at 419 and it sold right away. The more aggressive the price, the quicker it sells. They didn’t care for the competitive sales atmosphere and grandkids were the driving factor for moving back up north.


Amateur hour.

Bring in a professional to give you a market analysis.

[jimjamuser]

Reducing the price is possible with an owner who bought before the post covid surge. They will still see substantial profit. Considering closing costs, those who bought after covid cannot reduce the price unless they are willing to lose money or break even. IMO, if you do not plan on living in your home until you die, this is a terrible time to buy.
I agree that it is a terrible time to buy in Florida......period. My logic may be different than many, but the coast or Miami is a bad place to buy if you plan on living 20 or more years or plan on giving your property to your children......because the oceans are rising due to melting glaciers-worldwide. And the coasts are susceptible to MORE DESTRUCTIVE HURRICANES. Inland Florida like The Villages has the problem of excessive HEAT that is increasing in the SUMMER and hurricanes that MAY reach inland.
........Also, most of Florida has traffic problems throughout the winter.

[Normal]

Amateur hour.

Bring in a professional to give you a market analysis.

Someone is, because the cost of a real estate agent is the same as the price cut. EXCEPT, THE HOUSE SOLD!

[jimjamuser]

Actually, I'd love to see houses sitting on the market for 6+ months. It's what all the dopes who are confused about why we buy homes, deserve.

In another life, some years back, I was a housing policy advisor to a Governor and have some strong opinions on the subject. That doesn't make me right, it only means that I've been forced to think about the subject from a different perspective than most. I probably have stronger opinions on the subject than most, but that's just the way it goes, you can disagree.

Homes are just that, "homes". The purpose of homes, is shelter for people and families. Nothing more, nothing less.

We [the age demographic in TV] are the first generation in American history, who have expected to "inherit wealth", primarily derived from home appreciation of our parents. Prior to our generation, home appreciation was barely a blip on the radar.

We have now become a nation, whose market for shelter (homes) is driven by the notion that homes are a method to accumulate wealth. That is an "amateur investor" driven fallacy. Home appreciation in most cases, generates Monopoly money. It only becomes real money, when someone is able to actualize that money by making a major change in their life [moving, typically].

If every home in your chosen neighborhood appreciated 50% over-night, what did you gain? NOTHING if you want to continue to live in your neighborhood. You may be able to actualize some of that appreciation, but you have to change your life to do it (move).

Now we have folks coming on here and pontificating about how STR's are raising home values and should continue. Amateur hour.

Yep, STR's can help drive home prices higher, but again ... you need to do something affirmative to actualize that money. There are only (2) ways to actualize your accumulated "Monopoly money". You can move to a new neighborhood that's cheaper (hasn't been infected by the inflation caused by STR's) or .... stay where you are and live in a neighborhood that's turned into a commercial district, Your choice.

(The other option is to die and leave your appreciation to your children, who may or may not be able to actualize it.)

It seems to me, that people in their 60's and 70's should have seen enough of life by now, to realize living in a neighborhood they love, is more important than their home "appreciating" 10% per year. We should all be smart enough by now to realize, a "home" is shelter, not an investment.

Allowing professional investors and speculators to drive home prices in your neighborhood, is self-defeating if you want to live there. Allowing amateurs to do it, is even dumber.

As for the poster who said that STR's are no different than single-family homes and don't stress an infra-structure ... you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

STR's at a minimum, increase occupancy rates of "seasonal homes" that are now used year around. A 12 year old can see that.

STR's are invariably occupied (by definition) folks who are temporary and want to get maximum value for their rental money. Utilize amenities/events/conveniences to the max. Squeeze as much "vacation" into their vacation as they can. Who wouldn't?

Take a 6 month vacation home and rent it out for the 6 months you're not using it, nearly doubles the strain on an infrastructure ... simple, basic, 6th grade math.

STR's contribute nothing towards the purpose of what homes are intended for ... shelter.

STR's provide investment opportunities, for amateurs in most cases. For a price, folks get a temporary base of operations, to take part in the extraneous benefits of a location. Pools, restaurants, golf courses, tennis courts, walking paths, weather, etc. Sounds suspiciously like a hotel to me.

We're all sort of doing that in The Villages, but at least the folks who bought homes as year around or seasonal shelters, have made a significant investment. Allowing those investments to be de-valued by investors who now want to be in the hotel business on the cheap, is lunacy.

At a minimum, the new amendments to Florida legislation will allow the state to collect taxes due and increase the financial burden the amateur hotel owners will have to absorb.
I am very impressed with this post !!!!!!!! It seems to be very "thought provoking". And appears to come from an EXPERT on the SUBJECT. I LEARNED a lot........thanks.....KUDOS !

[Shipping up to Boston]

Sedona, Arizona is another area where the workers are needed, but can't afford to live there. The city put up a few mobile home areas, but most workers had to drive there from about 50 miles away, which they could afford. It was very much an area of the "haves and have NOTS"

Great point. I would think in the exclusive areas we’re talking about here (Steamboat Springs, Vail and Aspen), developers have probably secured or acquired anything within a sniff of those zip codes. Thus controlling the narrative you suggest. The divide deepens for those who would like to live, work and play in those locales but don’t have the incomes to sustain it.

[jimjamuser]

Almost invariably, STR's work only to the benefit of the owner's of the STR's and the businesses that support their guests.

There is not a neighborhood on earth, that has maintained it's personality (for better or worse) as a result of an influx of STR's.

Anyone who says STR's have not affected their neighbors or the neighborhood, is delusional.
I agree with this post 100%. The Villages should ALWAYS be about Quality of life........as a unifying principle.

[jimjamuser]

STRs do not belong in this community. The renters simply do not care and neither do the owners or they would allow their house to be leased that way. They especially do not care about YOU, their neighbor. File a complaint? The renters are long gone before anything can be done. Rules can be enacted that restrict that behavior and they should be, restricted STRs would benefit our communities not hurt them. What are hotels for but STRs? Let them go the Waterfront Inn, the Brownwood Hotel or any of the other nearby hotels but keep them out of our communities.
Extremely well said.

[jimjamuser]

The problem is that The Villages is spread across three different counties, there are multiple quasi-municipal governments within the community, each in charge, of their own districts. To compound the complexity, it's a deed-restricted community, with rules and regulations supposedly MUCH more strict than the towns and counties in which they are built. They still have to abide by the zoning laws of the counties. And that's really the only place where you can address the matter of short-term rentals for *existing* properties.

New properties in new neighborhoods that haven't had their deed restrictions written yet - can absolutely forbid short-term rentals. But it's the developer who writes these deed restrictions. And they don't care who lives in the house after they've been paid the purchase price from the original sale. It's not in their best financial interest to restrict who is and is not allowed to buy the homes they build.
Very correct, in my opinion.

[JoMar]

Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.

Appears to be an additional revenue stream to the State, and additional cost to the local government (which will be recovered through the tax base...us) and an increased cost to the owners (which will be recovered through the snowbirds). While I only scanned the 1000+ lines of text it appears hotel rates will also be impacted. Enforcement will be done by? I also wonder if local government is defined as Wildwood, Lady Lake, Fruitland Park or does it roll down to the CDD's? Lots of questions.

[BrianL99]

I am very impressed with this post !!!!!!!! It seems to be very "thought provoking". And appears to come from an EXPERT on the SUBJECT. I LEARNED a lot........thanks.....KUDOS !

Thank you Mr. Jimjamuser. I have some experience in the subject.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Am I to get the sense that political donations are what might skew the operations of the CDDs? Have recently read similar things about the sugar business gaining outsized influence. Apparently the Fanjuls have members in both parties. :-) Never been a fan of mercantilism.

Have long wondered why it seems to be that only Illinois politicians ever get sent to prison over corruption issues. Well, maybe the occasional Louisiana one. . .

A Connecticut governor went to prison twice for corruption. It was a huge state, and then national scandal. Check out John Rowland. His first jail term was 10 months in 2006. He'd resigned in 2004 because of the corruption charges. Then, he had a whole new set of charges, and was sentenced to 30 months, went in 2015 and got out in 2018.

[Normal]

Appears to be an additional revenue stream to the State, and additional cost to the local government (which will be recovered through the tax base...us) and an increased cost to the owners (which will be recovered through the snowbirds). While I only scanned the 1000+ lines of text it appears hotel rates will also be impacted. Enforcement will be done by? I also wonder if local government is defined as Wildwood, Lady Lake, Fruitland Park or does it roll down to the CDD's? Lots of questions.

If a listing is advertised on line, it can easily picked up with inexpensive software by local authorities . I would think the city can impose hotel taxes on STRs to pay for any expenses and raise revenue for other projects.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Another option the counties can look into:

Any rentals of single-family homes, with fewer than 6 months + 1 day *in a residential-zoned area*, must have an additional 2% STR tax imposed on them. That would exclude trailer parks and RV/camp parks, where the majority would be renters and short term tenants.

Any homeowner who rents, and doesn't pay that tax, and is caught, would be on the hook for the 2% STR tax they were supposed to pay for the privilege of renting, PLUS an additional $5000 fine. Anyone who doesn't pay the fine, gets a lien put on their home. No exceptions.

In other words, de-incentivize investment owners.

[BrianL99]

This is why realtors and appraisers use the median sales price of similar homes to price a new home on the market. But, thanks for rewording what I said.

This is easy to do yourself. Say you own a gardenia model.

1.go to vls and type in gardenia as your search. All gardenia models currently for sale will pop up.

2. Eliminate the homes that have a pool or a view if yours does not have this. Or vice versa.

3. Look at the prices of the homes remaining. Your actual sales price will most likely be the midpoint of these prices. You can attempt to ask higher, sometimes this works. For example: A cleaner home sells better than a messier one.

4. If your asking price is well above what others are asking, you are OVERPRICED.



Had a neighbor a couple weeks back do the same thing but added a step. The gardenia was averaging 449K, they wanted to sell so they listed it at 419 and it sold right away. The more aggressive the price, the quicker it sells. They didn’t care for the competitive sales atmosphere and grandkids were the driving factor for moving back up north.

Amateur hour.

Bring in a professional to give you a market analysis.


When god created real estate, he also proposed an axiom that has survived the test of time.

The first 2 posts above, neglect that axiom.

Real estate values, above all, follow one indisputable rule:

Location. LOCATION. L O C A T I O N.

The "location" isn't The Villages. The "location" isn't Amelia nor Mallory.

The "location" is:

How far away is this home, from the things that are important to me. Golf, tennis, my favorite Town Square, my sister, my doctor.

In The Villages, the over-riding "location" considerations are, how far from my favorite square, golf course, pool or friends. You cannot quantify that, by looking at real estate listing on line.

Which is why a professional is your best bet.

[jimjamuser]

Very well from the Developer's perspective.

Just Google Gary Search and/or Oren Miller.
That answered the question very well !

[JoMar]

If a listing is advertised on line, it can easily picked up with inexpensive software by local authorities . I would think the city can impose hotel taxes on STRs to pay for any expenses and raise revenue for other projects.

So who is the local authority, Wildwood, Fruitland Park, CDD? Also, I believe the tax goes to the State, not the local authority so who pays for the inexpensive software and the personnel to monitor and enforce?

[Normal]

So who is the local authority, Wildwood, Fruitland Park, CDD? Also, I believe the tax goes to the State, not the local authority so who pays for the inexpensive software and the personnel to monitor and enforce?

Wildwood can tax as they wish. A CDD may find it more difficult. I don’t know that they have the authority to impose a tax like Fruitland, Wildwood or Leesburg does.

[JoMar]

Wildwood can tax as they wish. A CDD may find it more difficult. I don’t know that they have the authority to impose a tax like Fruitland, Wildwood or Leesburg does.

And those that don't live in either Wildwood or Fruitland Park or Lady Lake only have the CDD or the County.

[BrianL99]

If a listing is advertised on line, it can easily picked up with inexpensive software by local authorities . I would think the city can impose hotel taxes on STRs to pay for any expenses and raise revenue for other projects.

The problem is, it's not easily picked up online.

AirBnB represents something like 80% of the market and they refused to provide the data and have changed their software numerous times, to prevent taxing authorities from identifying properties. The do have some agreements in place, mostly with larger cities, to collect local taxes. The do collect taxes, for at least 49 out of the 50 states.

Inside Airbnb'''s '''Guerrilla War''' Against Local Governments | WIRED (https://www.wired.com/story/inside-airbnbs-guerrilla-war-against-local-governments/)

6 Reasons Why Airbnb Does Not Show Address – ProVsCons (https://provscons.com/why-airbnb-does-not-show-address/)

[Pairadocs]

[QUOTE=CoachKandSportsguy;2308395]Senate Bill 280 (2024) - The Florida Senate (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2024/280) passed the FL house tonight

The bill increases local oversight on STR, short term rentals, with penalties of registration suspension.

Maybe will help flush some STRs out of the system.

Hope so, ruining our neighborhood close to LSL, and probably others. Neighbors have tried, unfortunately many owned by villages employees (true in our neighborhood) and to crack down on this apparently would have financial impact overall on the villages as many sales are to those affiliated with the villages and own strings of these. In our neighborhood surprisingly large homes ! When this first stated some years ago, we foolishly thought it might be confined to the small (colony) type villas ! ?

[Pairadocs]

Amateur hour.

Bring in a professional to give you a market analysis.

Seriously ? A "professional" ? A sales person, no way. But, to each their own. I believe most people do have a reasonable idea of what their home is "worth", but also have noticed many tend to think their home is worth more than whatever and where ever the market happens to be in their locale. Had one neighbor in the villages get a market "analysis" from a sales person, WAY more than the owners had determined would be a "fair" price. They "argued" a bit for their preference, but gave in to the agent. Then month after month the AGENT suggested they LOWER the price, 5K, then 12K, kept wanting to drop it... interesting that it did finally sell at exactly the price the owners had told the agent they wanted to price it at initially, but the agent felt that their "valuation" just wasn't to be considered, too "unprofessional" probably LOL !

[Shipping up to Boston]

A Connecticut governor went to prison twice for corruption. It was a huge state, and then national scandal. Check out John Rowland. His first jail term was 10 months in 2006. He'd resigned in 2004 because of the corruption charges. Then, he had a whole new set of charges, and was sentenced to 30 months, went in 2015 and got out in 2018.

As did the clown Governor of IL Blagojevich. 11 Governors in total have served jail time on Federal corruption charges. I’d list all the Mayors but I have a tee time on Tuesday! ;)

[Pairadocs]

Perhaps your viewpoint is backwards?

Folks buy homes in Residential zoning districts, they have a reasonable right to assume that the home next door to them, won't become a hotel.

In most cases, a "hotel" is worth more than a "home".

If STR's are eliminated in areas where the didn't belong in the first place, status quo continues, albeit rolled back to where everything should have been in the first place.

Of course, some folks are all about how much money they can make and don't have any qualms about destabilizing the neighborhoods where they buy homes.

Your summary is quite true I believe, and would add since they do not live in the neighborhoods they impact, of course they don't care if they are destabilized. I tend to think in this community the word "motel" is more appropriate than "hotel", but that's just mho. I tend to think of hotels as having more services, a central lobby, etc. I wonder if many villages residents would have "passed" on investing in a home here if they had known there were no restrictions on such things ? Maybe it's not of much importance to most people ? Have no idea !

[BrianL99]

Seriously ? A "professional" ? A sales person, no way. But, to each their own. I believe most people do have a reasonable idea of what their home is "worth", but also have noticed many tend to think their home is worth more than whatever and where ever the market happens to be in their locale. Had one neighbor in the villages get a market "analysis" from a sales person, WAY more than the owners had determined would be a "fair" price. They "argued" a bit for their preference, but gave in to the agent. Then month after month the AGENT suggested they LOWER the price, 5K, then 12K, kept wanting to drop it... interesting that it did finally sell at exactly the price the owners had told the agent they wanted to price it at initially, but the agent felt that their "valuation" just wasn't to be considered, too "unprofessional" probably LOL !

I won't dispute that happens, but "professionals" come with various degrees of competency, especially in the Real Estate business. I would have had 3 or 4 Brokers give me a market analysis.

As you alluded to, owner's really have no clue what their property is worth. They base their estimates on emotion and anecdotal stories they hear from neighbors or read on FaceBook.

Two commenters on here, went into long dissertations on how to do a "market analysis" on-line and completely left out the concept that LOCATION drives real estate values.

When I bought in TV, I had spend exactly 1 hour here. I went back to Boston, took out maps of TV and decided what was the best place in TV for me to live.

1. Which Square did I want to be close to? In a recent FaceBook poll, TV residents prefer Lake Sumter Landing, 2:1 over the other Squares. Easy choice.

2. Where were the golf courses I wanted to play, located?

3. I'm a less than 4 minute walk to a Regional Rec Center and 2 minutes to the community pool.

I'm between 466 & 466A and 3 minutes in my golf cart to Lake Sumter Landing.

That information is the intangible that drives real estate pricing and it's hard to quantify by a non-professional.

Take essentially the exact same house as mine, 2 miles in the wrong direction from Sumter, it's almost a 10% difference in selling pricing. Is it worth that much more? Of course it is. Location, location, location.

Those are things lay people don't understand.

I want to buy another home in TV, I want a 3 car garage. I need to be less than 5 minutes from Sumter Landing, without driving over a bridge. If you think I'm the only crazy person who thinks that way, you'd be mistaken.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I won't dispute that happens, but "professionals" come with various degrees of competency, especially in the Real Estate business. I would have had 3 or 4 Brokers give me a market analysis.

As you alluded to, owner's really have no clue what their property is worth. They base their estimates on emotion and anecdotal stories they hear from neighbors or read on FaceBook.

Two commenters on here, went into long dissertations on how to do a "market analysis" on-line and completely left out the concept that LOCATION drives real estate values.

When I bought in TV, I had spend exactly 1 hour here. I went back to Boston, took out maps of TV and decided what was the best place in TV for me to live.

1. Which Square did I want to be close to? In a recent FaceBook poll, TV residents prefer Lake Sumter Landing, 2:1 over the other Squares. Easy choice.

2. Where were the golf courses I wanted to play, located?

3. I'm a less than 4 minute walk to a Regional Rec Center and 2 minutes to the community pool.

I'm between 466 & 466A and 3 minutes in my golf cart to Lake Sumter Landing.

That information is the intangible that drives real estate pricing and it's hard to quantify by a non-professional.

Take essentially the exact same house as mine, 2 miles in the wrong direction from Sumter, it's almost a 10% difference in selling pricing. Is it worth that much more? Of course it is. Location, location, location.

Those are things lay people don't understand.

I want to buy another home in TV, I want a 3 car garage. I need to be less than 5 minutes from Sumter Landing, without driving over a bridge. If you think I'm the only crazy person who thinks that way, you'd be mistaken.

Good points. It really is in the eye of the beholder. You have to do your homework

[Shipping up to Boston]

Good points. It really is in the eye of the beholder. You have to do your homework

I should note that I had the opportunity to live and work in Myrtle Beach in the early 90’s. My neighbors literally changed on a weekly basis. Sense of community is lacking in MB except when traditional summer tourist season ends and the true year round residents reappear. I wasn’t oblivious to this as I had that knowledge going in....but’s it’s a culture shock especially if you’re used to a bedroom community like the one I grew up in in New England. MB is a beach/golf destination, TV is an anomaly. Not too many ‘neighborhoods’ span 35+ square miles over three counties....and growing. Nobody tripped over the threshold blindly. You were sold on the concept by family, friends or sales presentations. That said, when you have this amount of construction and inventory with such widespread price points....it’s attractive. STR are not a new phenomenon...it’s basic supply and demand. In the case of TV, with no restrictions in place and none forthcoming, it is what it is.

[BrianL99]

Good points. It really is in the eye of the beholder. You have to do your homework

Location is always an intangible in a place like The Villages.

You have to guess (or hire a very savvy professional) to understand the implications.

In TV, my opinion is that the #1 influence on location (& therefore, pricing) is proximity to Sumter Landing. That may change when Eastport is done, but I think it's far enough away, not to affect the LSL neighborhoods.

In a traditional neighborhood in many parts of the USA (particularly the Northeast), SAT scores drive location, as much as most anything. Different phases of life, mean different priorities.

[Escape Artist]

Perhaps not



Where has any two or three bedroom house been torn down and replaced by a multi-unit facility with a front desk? You can name it a hotel to try to make your point but that doesn't change reality. It is still a single family home with the normal number of persons residing in it.

Folks should not make assumptions, folks should make themselves aware of laws and covenants and what rights they and their neighbors have. This discussion seems to be about buyer's remorse and a desire to take away neighbor's rights to quell that remorse.



STRs are currently situated exactly where they belong.

Demanding legislation that will result in vacant homes, an increase in homes on the market, the loss of property rights, increased restrictions and higher taxes just doesn't sound like a path to increased home values.

Hmmm, it sounds like someone has a vested interest in STR.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

STRs do not belong in this community. The renters simply do not care and neither do the owners or they would allow their house to be leased that way. They especially do not care about YOU, their neighbor. File a complaint? The renters are long gone before anything can be done. Rules can be enacted that restrict that behavior and they should be, restricted STRs would benefit our communities not hurt them. What are hotels for but STRs? Let them go the Waterfront Inn, the Brownwood Hotel or any of the other nearby hotels but keep them out of our communities.

Renting a hotel is not the same. You basically have a bedroom and bathroom; a house has a full kitchen and living room. And look at it this way, with STR’s you get rid of the tenant quickly.

[margaretmattson]

I won't dispute that happens, but "professionals" come with various degrees of competency, especially in the Real Estate business. I would have had 3 or 4 Brokers give me a market analysis.

As you alluded to, owner's really have no clue what their property is worth. They base their estimates on emotion and anecdotal stories they hear from neighbors or read on FaceBook.

Two commenters on here, went into long dissertations on how to do a "market analysis" on-line and completely left out the concept that LOCATION drives real estate values.

When I bought in TV, I had spend exactly 1 hour here. I went back to Boston, took out maps of TV and decided what was the best place in TV for me to live.

1. Which Square did I want to be close to? In a recent FaceBook poll, TV residents prefer Lake Sumter Landing, 2:1 over the other Squares. Easy choice.

2. Where were the golf courses I wanted to play, located?

3. I'm a less than 4 minute walk to a Regional Rec Center and 2 minutes to the community pool.

I'm between 466 & 466A and 3 minutes in my golf cart to Lake Sumter Landing.

That information is the intangible that drives real estate pricing and it's hard to quantify by a non-professional.

Take essentially the exact same house as mine, 2 miles in the wrong direction from Sumter, it's almost a 10% difference in selling pricing. Is it worth that much more? Of course it is. Location, location, location.

Those are things lay people don't understand.

I want to buy another home in TV, I want a 3 car garage. I need to be less than 5 minutes from Sumter Landing, without driving over a bridge. If you think I'm the only crazy person who thinks that way, you'd be mistaken.Brian, a poster stated she could not sell her home even with a $50,000 price reduction.

Your advice? Drop it another $50,000 and it will probably sell quickly.

Two of us felt this was not the best idea. We advised to go on VLS and look at the same model of home and compare your selling price with the similar models currently for sale. This is a surefire way to see if YOU ARE OVERPRICED.

The only person who gave a market analysis was you. I feel dropping the price by $100,000 on a whim is not the way to go.

On several of your comments, you continue to call other posters amateurs. You have no idea of anyone's background or experience. You post get a professional analysis. Yet, you feel equipped to provide a market analysis and advise a poster on her home that you have never seen. You are overpriced, you wrote. Drop it another $50,000. I find this a bit confusing.

[margaretmattson]

I won't dispute that happens, but "professionals" come with various degrees of competency, especially in the Real Estate business. I would have had 3 or 4 Brokers give me a market analysis.

As you alluded to, owner's really have no clue what their property is worth. They base their estimates on emotion and anecdotal stories they hear from neighbors or read on FaceBook.

Two commenters on here, went into long dissertations on how to do a "market analysis" on-line and completely left out the concept that LOCATION drives real estate values.

When I bought in TV, I had spend exactly 1 hour here. I went back to Boston, took out maps of TV and decided what was the best place in TV for me to live.

1. Which Square did I want to be close to? In a recent FaceBook poll, TV residents prefer Lake Sumter Landing, 2:1 over the other Squares. Easy choice.

2. Where were the golf courses I wanted to play, located?

3. I'm a less than 4 minute walk to a Regional Rec Center and 2 minutes to the community pool.

I'm between 466 & 466A and 3 minutes in my golf cart to Lake Sumter Landing.

That information is the intangible that drives real estate pricing and it's hard to quantify by a non-professional.

Take essentially the exact same house as mine, 2 miles in the wrong direction from Sumter, it's almost a 10% difference in selling pricing. Is it worth that much more? Of course it is. Location, location, location.

Those are things lay people don't understand.

I want to buy another home in TV, I want a 3 car garage. I need to be less than 5 minutes from Sumter Landing, without driving over a bridge. If you think I'm the only crazy person who thinks that way, you'd be mistaken.
Location may be important to you. Others see a community that can be driven end to end in 30 minutes with golf courses, rec centers, and town squares equally spread throughout. One village is not better than the next.

These people, myself included, look at price and home features. We try to find the best deal. We recently bought a CYV $70,000 below market price with bond paid, completely renovated, maintenance free, an extended lanai that is glass enclosed with AC, large yard, and extended rooms and garage. All we had to do was move in. No extra work is needed.

Location was not a factor. We knew everything we want will be minutes away whichever village. The home we chose has three town squares, a plethora of golf courses, rec centers and a ridiculous amount of commercial under 12 minutes away in all directions. Many under 5 minutes. The furthest will be Eastport at 18 minutes away. With our cash savings and a home that requires little maintenance and no remodeling, we are planning many extravagant vacations.

This is a well-planned community with cookie cutter homes and amenities spread equally throughout. Some of us "amateurs" (as you describe us) are tickled pink when we SPEND LESS to get the SAME QUALITY of life.

[BrianL99]

Location may be important to you. Others see a community that can be driven end to end in 30 minutes with golf courses, rec centers, and town squares equally spread throughout. One village is not better than the next.
....
Location was not a factor. We knew everything we want will be minutes away whichever village. The home we chose has three town squares, a plethora of golf courses, rec centers and a ridiculous amount of commercial under 12 minutes away in all directions. Many under 5 minutes. The furthest will be Eastport at 18 minutes away.
.



On several of your comments, you continue to call other posters amateurs.

Thank you for proving my point.

[margaretmattson]

Thank you for proving my point.The ENTIRE community can be driven end to end in 30 minutes. The ENTIRE community is full of golf courses and amenities all pretty much identical to each other. Each is minutes away from another. The ENTIRE community has cookie cutter homes. The ENTIRE community is located minutes away from town squares. My daughter is looking for a home. I'll tell her to look at the ENTIRE community for location, location, location. Thanks for pointing this out. We couldn't figure this out ourselves. Nice to have someone teaching us amateurs.

[BrianL99]

The ENTIRE community can be driven end to end in 30 minutes. The ENTIRE community is full of golf courses and amenities all pretty much identical to each other. Each is minutes away from another. The ENTIRE community has cookie cutter homes. My daughter is looking for a home. I'll tell her to look at the ENTIRE community for location, location, location. Thanks for pointing this out. We couldn't figure this out ourselves. Nice to have someone teaching us amateurs.

You're welcome.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Location may be important to you. Others see a community that can be driven end to end in 30 minutes with golf courses, rec centers, and town squares equally spread throughout. One village is not better than the next.

These people, myself included, look at price and home features. We try to find the best deal. We recently bought a CYV $70,000 below market price with bond paid, completely renovated, maintenance free, an extended lanai that is glass enclosed with AC, large yard, and extended rooms and garage. All we had to do was move in. No extra work is needed.

Location was not a factor. We knew everything we want will be minutes away whichever village. The home we chose has three town squares, a plethora of golf courses, rec centers and a ridiculous amount of commercial under 12 minutes away in all directions. Many under 5 minutes. The furthest will be Eastport at 18 minutes away. With our cash savings and a home that requires little maintenance and no remodeling, we are planning many extravagant vacations.

This is a well-planned community with cookie cutter homes and amenities spread equally throughout. Some of us "amateurs" (as you describe us) are tickled pink when we SPEND LESS to get the SAME QUALITY of life.

For context, can you tell us what the original price of the home you purchased was listed for? If it was a higher end home, then that would be a nominal drop in price.....if it was from a more entry level home then that would be a steal. Especially turnkey.

[Normal]

The best way for Florida to assure they get their revenue is to demand AirBnB, Verbo turn over payment receipt through their website to residents. They can either comply or be banned from the state.

[BrianL99]

For context, can you tell us what the original price of the home you purchased was listed for? If it was a higher end home, then that would be a nominal drop in price.....if it was from a more entry level home then that would be a steal. Especially turnkey.


I'm sure this will come as a shock to you, but you can't believe everything you read on the Internet ... not even on TOTV ! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Randall55]

Every time the subject of STR's come up, the same folks seem to post their quasi-legal opinions and spout the delusion position, that STR's can or will be or should be, outlawed.

The Tourist trade contributed about $130 BILLION to Florida's economy in 2023.

Tourism generated $16 BILLION in state and local tax revenue.

The State of Florida has zero interest in curtailing STR's. It would bankrupt the state.

All of which contribute to the reason the state has adopted regulations that prohibit cities, towns & counties, from messing with the STR business. They can regulate (to an extent), but cannot prohibit, nor adopt regulations regarding "duration".

& for all you folks who say that occupancy can be regulated, by requiring the owner to be present, that just isn't factual. Some communities are trying that approach, but they're all getting dragged into court and the smart money says they're going to lose.

The folks (same ones all the time) that say the Developer could, would, should control STR's, don't understand the Developer's business model.

Folks keep saying, "the Developer is only interested in selling homes". That statement shows a lack of understanding of business and the Developer's business model.

Every square inch of commercial space in The Villages, is owned by the Developer. At its core, Commercial real estate demand is driven by one and only one factor. The amount of business a company can do, that's location driven. In this instance, "location driven", means (3) things. Location, demographic and population.

If the Developer woke up tomorrow and said ... "no more rentals in TV", what would happen? The value of his commercial holdings would tank over-night. 30-40% of the potential customers of the various businesses, would be gone.

The numbers are probably worst than I'm guessing, because renters/vacationers spend more money than residents. More dining out, more shopping, more golf, more of everything. Unless it was to the Developer's interests, why would he/she get involved in the quagmire of STR regulation?

The only possible change in in the rental/STR side of The Villages, would be if the CCD's took some tighter control over Guest Passes & (non)-Resident ID's. Considering the Developer essentially controls the CDD's, that's fairly unlikely. Then again, I've heard some people have been struck by lightening, twice.We live in a free enterprise state. The state's zero interest in curtailing strs is NOT because of tourism. The state has no dominion over private property and cannot tell a owner he/she cannot rent their property. The most they can do is regulate their decision to operate a business.

Apparently, you did not read the bill. It addresses occupancy, two per room. It also requires someone to be available 24 hours to handle complaints. It seems the folks in Tallahasee see things differently than you.

The developer cannot do a thing to stop strs. Again, this is a free enterprise state. The developer, like all Florida residents, must abide by state law. Fenney once had a clause that disallowed rentals. It has since been removed. Either the Developer does not want to get entrenched in controlling strs or someone pursued legal action and he was forced to remove the clause. A clause in a deed restriction is enforceable ONLY IF it adheres to the laws of the government.

Our state says strs are legal. Nothing anyone can do to stop them.

[Bill14564]

We live in a free enterprise state. The state's zero interest in curtailing strs is NOT because of tourism. The state has no dominion over private property and cannot tell a owner he/she cannot rent their property. The most they can do is regulate their decision to operate a business.

Apparently, you did not read the bill. It addresses occupancy, two per room. It also requires someone to be available 24 hours to handle complaints. It seems the folks in Tallahasee see things differently than you.

The developer cannot do a thing to stop strs. Again, this is a free enterprise state. The developer, like all Florida residents, must abide by state law. Fenney once had a clause that disallowed rentals. It has since been removed. Either the Developer does not want to get entrenched in controlling strs or someone pursued legal action and he was forced to remove the clause. A clause in a deed restriction is enforceable ONLY IF it adheres to the laws of the government.

Our state says strs are legal. Nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Wrong.

- Some counties do still have restrictions on which homes can be used as STRs.
- The State has considered restricting STRs but has chosen not to.
- More counties would like to restrict STRs but the state will not allow them to.
- The Developer has in the past (and continues as far as I know) restricted any rentals in certain areas.

[margaretmattson]

For context, can you tell us what the original price of the home you purchased was listed for? If it was a higher end home, then that would be a nominal drop in price.....if it was from a more entry level home then that would be a steal. Especially turnkey.Preowned homes are sitting on the market for MONTHS. Wanting to take advantage of this, it took us a long 7 months to find a home.

We were not concerned about location, any village was fine. Daily, we would look at preowned homes and centered in on those that checked all our boxes. We paid close attention to those that were sitting. When the price dropped, we paid closer attention. Sometimes, a home would sell immediately after the price drop. Some remained on the market.

We found a CYV that went under the radar. It had poor pictures and a poor description. It had been sitting with no foot traffic. Yet, we knew the neighborhood very well. It was actually one of our desired.

We looked at the price of the home when it was bought. Turns out, the owner would make $380,000 in profit. We gave an offer $100,000 below ask. We were expecting to negotiate back and forth or lose the home entirely. Instead, we were asked for $30,000 more. We accepted.

The home was first listed for 745,000. It had several drops in price. We paid $630,000. The former owner was a 94-year-old woman who recently passed. The children did not wish to continue to pay the expenses and wanted to rid themselves as quickly as possible.

Some will say we were lucky or this did not happen. I will tell all to pay close attention to the market. There are great buys out there. You can't be choosy in location. Which doesn't matter much because NEARLY EVERYTHING in the villages can be reached in minutes.

I do not believe this strategy will work on newer homes in the south or homes less than $350,000. You have to search for homes in the North and look for an original owner. Original owners profit is one of the highest in the villages. They can and are willing to negotiate.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Preowned homes are sitting on the market for MONTHS. Wanting to take advantage of this, it took us a long 7 months to find a home.

We were not concerned about location, any village was fine. Daily, we would look at preowned homes and center in on those that checked all our boxes. We paid close attention to those that were sitting. When the price dropped, we paid closer attention. Sometimes, a home would sell immediately after the price drop. Some remained on the market.

We found a CYV that went under the radar. It had poor pictures and a poor description. It had been sitting with no foot traffic. Yet, we knew the neighborhood very well. It was actually one of our desired.

We looked at the price of the home when it was bought. Turns out, the owner would make $380,000 in profit. We gave an offer $100,000 below ask. We were expecting to negotiate back and forth or lose the home entirely. Instead, we were asked for $30,000 more. We accepted.

The home was first listed for 735,000. It had several drops in price. We paid $630,000. The former owner was 94-year-oldld woman who recently passed. The children did not wish to continue to pay the expenses and wanted to rid themselves as quickly as possible.

Some will say we were lucky or this did not happen. I will tell all to pay close attention to the market. There are great buys out there. You can't be choosy in location. Which doesn't matter much because NEARLY EVERYTHING in the villages can be reached in minutes.

I do not believe this strategy will work on newer homes in the south or homes less than $350,000. You have to search for homes in the North and look for an original owner. Original owners profit is one of the highest in the villages. They can and are willing to negotiate.

Those anomalies do exist. To the victor goes the spoils. Golf clap

[Randall55]

Wrong.

- Some counties do still have restrictions on which homes can be used as STRs.
- The State has considered restricting STRs but has chosen not to.
- More counties would like to restrict STRs but the state will not allow them to.
- The Developer has in the past (and continues as far as I know) restricted any rentals in certain areas.Not exactly. Yes, There are places that restrict strs through their deed restrictions. Most people in these communities do not challenge and are happy to follow. But, all it takes is one individual who is willing to seek legal action on ANY clause they believe is unlawful. Sometimes, a person does just that and the only people privy to the legal action are the lawyers, person contesting, and developer.

It is similar to signs posted in some areas. Beware! Look for trippng hazards, or something similar. They then try to avoid paying out when someone does indeed fall and is injured. The person injured can easily get a lawyer and have their medical bills paid.

You can write whatever you want. It doesn't mean it is legal. I believe the Developer removed the no rental clause in Fenney because he is intelligent enough to understand this. Or, he has a great team of lawyers checking and rechecking the legality of each clause in his deed restrictions.

Why do you believe the no rental clause was removed? Just curious to hear another viewpoint. The counties you are referring to were grandfathered in when new legislation was passed. It has nothing to do with deed restrictions.To the best of my knowledge, Sumter is not one of those counties.

Many of us know the story of the white cross lawn ornament. A person MOST DEFINITELY can fight deed restrictions.

[Bill14564]

Not exactly. Yes, There are places that restrict strs through their deed restrictions. All it takes is legal action to show a clause is not enforceable because it goes against government laws. People in communities do not challenge their deed restrictions. They are happy to follow. But, all it takes is one individual who is willing to seek legal action. Sometimes, a person does just that and the only people privy to the legal action are the lawyers, person contesting, and developer.

It is similar to signs posted in some areas. Beware! Look for trippng hazards, or something similar. They then try to avoid paying out when someone does indeed fall and is injured. The person injured can easily get a lawyer and have their medical bills paid.

You can write whatever you want. It doesn't mean it is legal. I believe the Developer removed the no rental clause in Fenney because he is intelligent enough to understand this. Or, he has a great team of lawyers checking and rechecking the legality of each clause in his deed restrictions.

Right back at you.

Why do you believe the no rental clause was removed? Just curious to hear another viewpoint. I believe the counties were grandfathered in when new legislation was passed. It has nothing to do with deed restrictions.To the best of my knowledge, Sumter is not one of those counties.

I honestly don't know why it was removed. Seeing that it was removed in two steps, I assume it was because an influential individual purchased in that area and petitioned the developer to ease the restrictions for him. But, I really don't know.

The restrictions were not removed from "Fenney." The restrictions didn't cover "Fenney." The restrictions were removed from one unit within CDD12. In fact, that unit is not listed as Fenney but rather, it is listed as Southern Oaks (of which Fenney may be a part). However, there is another unit within CDD12 that had non-rental language added in an amendment. That unit is named Fenney in the deed restrictions.

[Randall55]

Right back at you.



I honestly don't know why it was removed. Seeing that it was removed in two steps, I assume it was because an influential individual purchased in that area and petitioned the developer to ease the restrictions for him. But, I really don't know.

The restrictions were not removed from "Fenney." The restrictions didn't cover "Fenney." The restrictions were removed from one unit within CDD12. In fact, that unit is not listed as Fenney but rather, it is listed as Southern Oaks (of which Fenney may be a part). However, there is another unit within CDD12 that had non-rental language added in an amendment. That unit is named Fenney in the deed restrictions.Thanks for the correction. The removal still seems odd to me.

[Normal]

Thanks for the correction. The removal still seems odd to me.

Just a special interest thing done by the Developer. You know, kind of like having county commissioners removed (who won in a landslide) that wanted to charge the Developer due impact fees like other developers are charged. Then again, the friend up in the governor’s mansion was sure to appoint pro developer commissioners so the people wouldn’t have a say. Money talks.

[Randall55]

Just a special interest thing done by the Developer. You know, kind of like having county commissioners removed (who won in a landslide) that wanted to charge the Developer due impact fees like other developers are charged. Then again, the friend up in the governor’s mansion was sure to appoint pro developer commissioners so the people wouldn’t have a say. Money talks.Is there still an area in the Villages that has a no rentals clause in their deed restrictions? I looked at Villages 4 rent site. Every village seems to have rentals. I thought at one time Fenney restricted them in their deed restrictions. But, there are homes in that area available for rent on that site. Am I confused?

[DebMil]

While few care for STRs in their neighborhoods, they still exist. The housing economy should flush many of them out of business I hope.

All the same I ran across a useful website for calculations and rentals… Causal: a browser-based modelling tool (https://netlify.causal.app/buy-to-rent)

It is very informative for those still wishing to delve into treacherous waters before the bottom falls out of the market. When all is said and done by summers end, we should see solid below 200 dollars a square foot averages.


Let's hope it doesn't go that low as even the newer patio homes will lose money. We need a bit bigger home and I see the home prices dropping like crazy..in most cases, the over 55 buyer used to pay cash up to say 400k. So interest rates should not be affecting sales, but it seems to be..

[Randall55]

Let's hope it doesn't go that low as even the newer patio homes will lose money. We need a bit bigger home and I see the home prices dropping like crazy..in most cases, the over 55 buyer used to pay cash up to say 400k. So interest rates should not be affecting sales, but it seems to be..Prices are all over the board. A few preowned are selling at aggressive prices but the majority are sitting on the market for months. Daily, I see price reductions up to $50,000. Moultrie Creek is selling quickly but Denham and Dabney still have quite a bit of inventory even with reduced prices. The market is unstable to say the least.

[BrianL99]

The ENTIRE community can be driven end to end in 30 minutes. The ENTIRE community is full of golf courses and amenities all pretty much identical to each other. Each is minutes away from another. The ENTIRE community has cookie cutter homes. The ENTIRE community is located minutes away from town squares. My daughter is looking for a home. I'll tell her to look at the ENTIRE community for location, location, location. Thanks for pointing this out. We couldn't figure this out ourselves. Nice to have someone teaching us amateurs.




Flippers do not go to remote areas and wait until a home becomes desirable to sell. They look for areas where they can make $$$$. This is why areas like Richmond sell out quickly. [Homes close to squares bring in large, year-round, rental income. The homes are also ridiculously easy to flip for a large profit.

If you are thinking about buying your forever home near a square, be warned. You may be surrounded by rentals and neighbors who have no plans on staying. When they leave, another rental may be added to your neighborhood. AirBnB owners snatch as many homes near the squares that they can get their hands on.




On several of your comments, you continue to call other posters amateurs.

So which is it?

Are all homes locations "identical" or are homes near Squares more desirable or "better for appreciation"? Or does it depend on what day it is?

I probably should have used the word, "non-professionals" or "less savvy", perhaps?

[Randall55]

I probably should have used the word, "non-professionals". Reading comprehension is important. What FLIPPERS and INVESTORS do has nothing in common with how OTHER BUYERS choose to purchase a home. Location in a cookie cutter community is not important to all. Some see every village as nearly identical. The home and features are most important to them. YOU believe one village is better than another. FLIPPERS, INVESTORS, OTHER BUYERS, and YOU have different needs. To each their own. No need to call others names or continue unnecessary battles.This is an opinion based forum.

[Normal]

Let's hope it doesn't go that low as even the newer patio homes will lose money. We need a bit bigger home and I see the home prices dropping like crazy..in most cases, the over 55 buyer used to pay cash up to say 400k. So interest rates should not be affecting sales, but it seems to be..

Would you consider renting a home here and selling your existing home before the bottom of the market? There are options to circumvent realtor fees and charge a competitive/aggressive price for faster liquidation.

400k is a lot of money to many people. The market in a home state is affected by interest rates. People aren’t selling right now because their home values have dropped in most places. Buying a home in many cases is contingent on selling the previous dwelling.

I certainly hope you find your ideal situation and get the home you wish for. There is the possibility of a blip in interest rates if the FED makes an announcement to hold rates or lower them.

[dano121]

STR would definitetly reduce the overcrowding in The Villages during winter months. Del Webb markets against the Villages by discussing the short term rentals here. Who really cares about values if you are retired here!

[Shipping up to Boston]

STR would definitetly reduce the overcrowding in The Villages during winter months. Del Webb markets against the Villages by discussing the short term rentals here. Who really cares about values if you are retired here!

The latter is a great point. All this talk about about home valuation is suspect. Most of it people saying TV is their last stop. So unless it's protecting your children and grandchildren, it's a non starter. TV has a great quality of life with or without STR and home values have consistently outperformed like minded communities.