Update: drone flying in The Villages

[DrHitch]

Hi all,
I reviewed an old thread (now closed) about flying drones in The Villages...ref: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/drone-use-around-villages-tv-327803/index4.html

Questions:
I do know that Don Wiley is the guru for the drone club here in the villages and I have flown with them at the Soaring Eagles baseball fields.

I was told yesterday that there may be some updates to local policies specific to drones?

A LAANC approval does show us here as open airspace

So, non-commercial recreational flying is still legal?

Pls no snarky comments...just questioning from a FAA 107 licensed pilot...

[Stu from NYC]

Would suggest you contact Don for this info he is the resident expert.

[Dusty_Star]

So, non-commercial recreational flying is still legal?

Pls no snarky comments...just questioning from a FAA 107 licensed pilot...

Legal or not, it is probably not a good idea to fly over private property (without permission), or the pools. I will leave it to others to say if they think flying over the golf courses should be allowed during play.

[shut the front door]

Legal or not, it is probably not a good idea to fly over private property (without permission), or the pools. I will leave it to others to say if they think flying over the golf courses should be allowed during play.

It is impossible to fly a drone without ever being over private property.

[Dusty_Star]

It is impossible to fly a drone without ever being over private property.

Without permission?

[Bill14564]

Hi all,
I reviewed an old thread (now closed) about flying drones in The Villages...ref: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/drone-use-around-villages-tv-327803/index4.html

Questions:
I do know that Don Whaley is the guru for the drone club here in the villages and I have flown with them at the baseball fields.

I was told yesterday that there may be some updates to local policies specific to drones?

A LAANC approval does show us here as open airspace

So, non-commercial recreational flying is still legal?

Pls no snarky comments...just questioning from a FAA 107 licensed pilot...

Google finds an ordinance specific to Lake County but nothing for Sumter County.

There were several pages (https://www.droneblog.com/florida/) on drone laws (https://cultofdrone.com/drone-laws-in-florida/) in Florida (https://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-florida/) that all seem to provide the same information.

[DrHitch]

...it is probably not a good idea to fly over private property... or the pools...fllying over the golf courses should be allowed during play.

All true. Even licensed FAA 107 pilots have a variety of STIFF rules about flying over people. Unknowing recreation pilots violate this a lot.

[Maker]

Airspace is not subject to Villages ordinances or policies. It is regulated by the FAA.
The federal rules under 107 are the legal restrictions. Beyond that, there are things one might not want to do in order to remain a "good neighbor" and not attract law enforcement.
The State and Local laws focus on where a drone can land or lift off from. There are legal arguments that laws restricting where flying can happen are invalid because they are overruled by federal law.
The rules about cameras looking where someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy are quite valid.

[shut the front door]

Without permission?

I fly my drone from my house over to the square all the time. Is it your suggestion that I get permission from the hundreds of homes that I fly over on any given day?
Tell me you know nothing about drones without telling me...

[BrianL99]

People who "fly" drones, call themselves "Pilots"?

Well that certainly cheapen's my FAA Airmen's Certificate.

[villagetinker]

This is interesting, I think I saw one this evening (3/7) at dusk, and I would think it was over Brownwood square, but this is a guess. The maneuvers gave it away, as no plane (red and green lights) could do what this device did. It stopped midair, and then did a controlled vertical decent until it was out of my view.

[Shipping up to Boston]

People who "fly" drones, call themselves "Pilots"?

Well that certainly cheapen's my FAA Airmen's Certificate.

And free tuition to obtain! Kidding
You would think ‘operator’ would be more fitting

[BrianL99]

And free tuition to obtain! Kidding
You would think ‘operator’ would be more fitting

I have an FAA Private & Instrument Rating.

People ask, "oh, are you a pilot"? I respond, "not really. I'm legal to fly an airplane and fly it in bad weather, but I don't consider myself a 'pilot'. Guys who fly jets in the military and guys sitting up front on your JetBlue flight ... those guys are 'pilots'".

Now I hear that guys who filled out the card that came in the box of their $79.95 drone and mailed it to the FAA, are now calling themselves "pilots" ?

It reminds of reading posts on FaceBook, where someone is talking about their daughter Suzy, "who's is going to Medical School". Well, Suzy isn't exactly going to "Med School", she's taking a 4 day course to be a CNA.

[charlie1]

The FAA has an Unmanned Pilot license (part 107) that pertains to Drones and unmanned aircraft. It is not an easy test and requires many hours of study to pass. It is administered by an FAA representative and is costly for the recreational flyer. There are a lot of regulations with unmanned aircraft (it would be wise to understand what they are before flying) and there are more passed, it seems, everyday. The latest one that effects recreational flyers is the Remote ID requirements, without RMID you will be severely limited as to where you can fly your drone. Most drones 2 years of age or less probably have the capability to comply with the requirements of Remote ID but will need to be registered with the FAA to get RMID compliance certification. Older drones will need to have a RMID module added. RMID gives the FAA real time access to the drones location, just like manned aircraft. This is suppose to go into effect this month!

[Goldwingnut]

Without permission?

Yes, without permission, you do not own the airspace above any property, that is controlled by the FAA.

[Goldwingnut]

Hi all,
I reviewed an old thread (now closed) about flying drones in The Villages...ref: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/drone-use-around-villages-tv-327803/index4.html

Questions:
I do know that Don Whaley is the guru for the drone club here in the villages and I have flown with them at the baseball fields.

I was told yesterday that there may be some updates to local policies specific to drones?

A LAANC approval does show us here as open airspace

So, non-commercial recreational flying is still legal?

Pls no snarky comments...just questioning from a FAA 107 licensed pilot...

First off, my last name is spelled W i l e y.

Commercial and recreational flying is legal throughout The Villages and surrounding areas.

LAANC approval is required when flying in restricted airspace such as within 5 miles of an airport, Leesburg being the closest of these. There are 15 general aviation untowered airfields within 5 miles of the boundaries of The Villages. I've reached out to all of these over the years and only received a few responses, mainly - keep it under 400ft, don't bother us again, and a few other choice words we used in the engineer of a submarine when something broke.

Part 107 flight certificate (14CFR107) is required for commercial operations but not required for recreational. Recreational pilots must take the TRUST exam, just go to the faa.gov/uas website for a link to take the test, it's free and you can't fail.

Flying over private property is legal and does not require permission. The FAA owns the airspace not the property owner. (United States v. Causby (1946) – airspace ownership of a private individual “immediate reaches above the land”)

Neither the county, the city, nor The Villages can make any laws or regulations concerning use, operation, or any other restrictions specific to sUAS (drones), that power belongs to the state per FS330.41.

Lake county ordinance, is legal under 330.41 as it is not specific to drones.

Lake County FL Code of Ordinances Chapter 16 Parks and Recreation
Section 16-7 – Prohibited Activities
16-7(a)(9) Non-recreation areas. No person or persons shall engage in rough or potentially dangerous games or practice for same, such as football, baseball, softball, horseshoes, quoits, tennis volleyball, badminton or any other games, practice or exercise involving thrown or otherwise propelled objects such as balls, stones, arrows, javelins, shuttlecocks, Frisbees, model aircraft, roller skates or skateboards in those areas posted as nonrecreation
areas, or in those areas specifically restricted.

There is also the Florida Administrative code:
Florida Administrative Code 5I-4.003.(11) (Forestry – Vehicular, Animal and Pedestrian Control)
No person shall takeoff or land an aircraft on managed lands, except at a runway or a helispot and only with authorization from the Service, and such authorization shall be based upon a determination that the takeoff or landing will not endanger the health, safety or welfare of any person; potentially damage the forest resources; or interfere with management objectives of that forest as provided in that forest’s management plan. Authorization from the Service is not required in an emergency or for Service official business.)

There are two other Florid laws that apply 330.411 Prohibited possession or operation of unmanned aircraft.
and
Florida Statute 934.50 Searches and seizures using a drone. - this one covers the privacy issues related to drone operation.

14CFR89 – sUAS Remote Identification requirements - this is the latest changes to the law requiring Remote ID on all sUAS or their operation is restricted to an FAA Recognized Identification Area (FRIA). Most newer aircraft have RID built in, if not you can purchase a RID module and attach it to your aircraft (stupidly expensive right now), or you will be limited to a FRIA area.

You only need to get your Part 107 certificate if you work is monetized - basically any one or any entity received monetary or other compensation for your work. This include YouTube and Facebook postings; YT & FB are compensated for your work even if you are not, therefore it is commercial work and a Part 107 cert is required.

Getting you Part 107 cert is neither difficult nor expensive. The Drone Flyers Club offers to its members discounted study books and training every month on Part 107. Depending on your background and experience it will take you 6 to ??? to study for the test. The testing is done at the Leesburg airport and costs about $150. The DFC had 2 members get their 107 cert this week, and has a goal of 50% of the membership getting or having their 107 by the end of the year, we're at about 40% right now.

Hope that answers your questions. Send me a PM if you have more.

[Cuervo]

Many of the responses seem to center on privacy, what I'm curious is if the drone causes any damage either to property or even worst to a human are these so call pilots liable.

[Two Bills]

Just think, you can remove dog poop from your yard, and drop it back at offender's house by drone, all from the comfort of your favorite armchair.
When you get really good at it, you could drop a packet on the errant dog owners head.
The sky is the limit!

[Robnlaura]

Many of the responses seem to center on privacy, what I'm curious is if the drone causes any damage either to property or even worst to a human are these so call pilots liable.

This is from a bunch of people living on top of each other and staring into others lanais and reporting garden gnomes bwahahhahha

[dewilson58]

Just think, you can remove dog poop from your yard, and drop it back at offender's house by drone, all from the comfort of your favorite armchair.
When you get really good at it, you could drop a packet on the errant dog owners head.
The sky is the limit!

:BigApplause:

[Goldwingnut]

Many of the responses seem to center on privacy, what I'm curious is if the drone causes any damage either to property or even worst to a human are these so call pilots liable.

Yes, the FAA calls and considers the operator of a drone or sUAS a pilot.

Yes, the pilot would be liable for damage and personal injury

§107.23 Hazardous operation.
No person may:
(a) Operate a small unmanned aircraft system in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another; or
(b) Allow an object to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that creates an undue hazard to persons or property.

[Windguy]

People ask, "oh, are you a pilot"? I respond, "not really. I'm legal to fly an airplane and fly it in bad weather, but I don't consider myself a 'pilot'. Guys who fly jets in the military and guys sitting up front on your JetBlue flight ... those guys are 'pilots'".

I agree with this thinking. I feel the same way about titles such as “sailor” and “astronaut.”

I’m not a sailor because I go on a cruise and no one is an astronaut just because they took a joy ride in a suborbital rocket. A far as I’m concerned, you don’t deserve such titles unless you do it for a living.

[Altavia]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

[Nell57]

Thank you , Don.
You took a lot of time and gave a factual analysis to a very valid question.
Without you, this discussion would have rambled on for 6 pages, and yes, there would have been snarky comments.
You are one of the unique people who make The Villages the best place in America.

[RRGuyNJ]

I agree with this thinking. I feel the same way about titles such as “sailor” and “astronaut.”

I’m not a sailor because I go on a cruise and no one is an astronaut just because they took a joy ride in a suborbital rocket. A far as I’m concerned, you don’t deserve such titles unless you do it for a living.

I also agree with this thinking. I was a locomotive engineer for a passenger railroad and many of the guys thought they were really something special. In reality, running a 10 or 12 car passenger train is waaaaay different form running a mile or so long freight train through the mountains. Most passenger guys would tear that freight train apart. Myself included. Same title but still apples and oranges.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The ego on some people!
The obsession with titles.
Dont get me started....Chiropractors and Podiatrists (kidding) but it's a Seinfeld episode brewing here!

[Out&Proud]

I fly my drone from my house over to the square all the time. Is it your suggestion that I get permission from the hundreds of homes that I fly over on any given day?
Tell me you know nothing about drones without telling me...

Every drone flyer in the US must take and pass the TRUST exam on the FAA.gov website.
Law enforcement and FAA officials can legally ask for that certificate from any drone flyer while they are flying. The fines have been up to $30,000 if a drone flyer does not have that certificate while flying.
The FAA has authority over all air space and not local or state law enforcement. All air space in The Villages is Class G air space with no restrictions. However, drones are not permitted to fly over groups of people, public events or stadiums full of people.
I am VP of the Drone Flyers Club of The Villages and Don Wiley is President. Our club educates drone flyers and promotes safety and respect for others while flying drones.

[BrianL99]

All air space in The Villages is Class G air space with no restrictions. However, drones are not permitted to fly over groups of people, public events or stadiums full of people.
I am VP of the Drone Flyers Club of The Villages and Don Wiley is President. Our club educates drone flyers and promotes safety and respect for others while flying drones.

You could be VP of United Airlines and you'd still be wrong and a perfect example of why a drone "pilot" isn't in the same universe as someone with an FAA Airmen's Certificate.

I didn't look at a Sectional to see what is or isn't Class G airspace over The Villages but I can assure you, that doesn't mean there are "no restrictions". It means some portion of the airspace over The Villages is "uncontrolled airspace". Uncontrolled Airspace is a world apart from "no restrictions".

You really should get your terms straight and understand what you're talking about.

Class G Airspace, Explained | Boldmethod (https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/airspace/class-g-airspace-rules-explained/)

[Bill14564]

You could be VP of United Airlines and you'd still be wrong and a perfect example of why a drone "pilot" isn't in the same universe as someone with an FAA Airmen's Certificate.

I didn't look at a Sectional to see what is or isn't Class G airspace over The Villages but I can assure you, that doesn't mean there are "no restrictions". It means some portion of the airspace over The Villages is "uncontrolled airspace". Uncontrolled Airspace is a world apart from "no restrictions".

You really should get your terms straight and understand what you're talking about.

So tell us, what restrictions are there for drones other than not flying over groups of people, public events, or stadiums full of people?

[firefighter4u]

To answer a question above, I enjoy getting a unique vantage point over a common area that's not normally seen (or easily assessable). Also, I make personal video diaries of my travels where I'll have my drone follow me while I ride a bike or drive a boat, etc. It just adds a little extra to an otherwise boring video of mine.

[BrianL99]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

Voyeurism, mostly.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Voyeurism, mostly.

Creepy in a development like TV. In major cities its vital. To law enforcement, fire departments, real estate professionals etc.

[shut the front door]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

I use mine for good video and photos. I've gotten some really good video of friends riding my jet ski as i operate the drone from the boat.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I agree with this thinking. I feel the same way about titles such as “sailor” and “astronaut.”

I’m not a sailor because I go on a cruise and no one is an astronaut just because they took a joy ride in a suborbital rocket. A far as I’m concerned, you don’t deserve such titles unless you do it for a living.

If I take my Sunfish sail boat out on the lake, I'm a sailor. It's my sailboat, I'm the one steering it and setting the sail, coming about, doing all the work (a Sunfish is a single-person sailboat). I don't do it for a living, I do it because I like sailing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

Check out any of Mr. Wiley's videos about the Villages construction, and you'll see for yourself why it's so much fun. It's fun for those of us privileged to experience the expansion from a bird's-eye view.

[Shipping up to Boston]

If I take my Sunfish sail boat out on the lake, I'm a sailor. It's my sailboat, I'm the one steering it and setting the sail, coming about, doing all the work (a Sunfish is a single-person sailboat). I don't do it for a living, I do it because I like sailing.



If you give out legal advice in jail they call you a jailhouse lawyer. Just kidding

The point we all are making is that a ‘Pilot’ is a professional. Involving extensive education and practical training. A very serious occupation not to be confused with a drone operator....a recreational hobby.

[D.C.Villager]

People who "fly" drones, call themselves "Pilots"?

Well that certainly cheapen's my FAA Airmen's Certificate.

Yes, The USA military has many drone pilots with years of training holding top secret security clearances. They are treated with great respect.

Any more questions?

[Bill14564]

If you give out legal advice in jail they call you a jailhouse lawyer. Just kidding

The point we all are making is that contrary to the official FAA definition, we feel a ‘Pilot’ is a professional. Involving extensive education and practical training. A very serious occupation not to be confused with a drone operator....a recreational hobby.

Fixed that for you

[Shipping up to Boston]

Fixed that for you

Thank you kind sir!

[Rodneysblue]

Would suggest you contact Don for this info he is the resident expert.

Definitely, ask Don.

[ChrisCarson]

Not sure if I missed it but wanted to mention that drones under 250g (.55lbs) don't require to be registered or have a GPS chip.

[dewilson58]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

Closest I get to being a Fighter Pilot.

(& a great way to get rid of dog poop)

:pepper2:

[chorndawg]

Just think, you can remove dog poop from your yard, and drop it back at offender's house by drone, all from the comfort of your favorite armchair.
When you get really good at it, you could drop a packet on the errant dog owners head.
The sky is the limit!
Brilliant! Now what is my Amazon password…….

[Daddymac]

Legal or not, it is probably not a good idea to fly over private property (without permission), or the pools. I will leave it to others to say if they think flying over the golf courses should be allowed during play.

If you can see it with your eyes, It’s don’t matter where you are, it is Legal !!
So even if it’s not a good idea, It’s legal. So if it’s “open” air space it’s Legal.

[BrianL99]

Yes, The USA military has many drone pilots with years of training holding top secret security clearances. They are treated with great respect.

Any more questions?

As a matter of fact, those Drone Pilots are eligible for "Combat" medals, retro-actively back to 2016. Eventually, a huge portion of our defense system will be taken over by unmanned aircraft.

The guys flying them from the comfort of their office at Lackland AFB, would be the very first to say their job isn't even close to what a F-35 pilot is doing in hostile territory.

If you want to compare a guy filling out the postcard that came with his $79.95 drone from Amazon, to a professional drone fighter pilot, working for the USAF, protecting his county, I think you should think that through a bit more.

Any more questions?

[BrianL99]

Creepy in a development like TV. In major cities its vital. To law enforcement, fire departments, real estate professionals etc.

I'm sure all the drone pilots in TV are using their Amazon drones to assist law enforcement, fire departments and of course, helping all the real estate professionals and producing video fly-overs of all the wonderful amenities under construction down south.

They could't be using them to check out the women line dancing in the Squares, could they?

Or ... maybe they're using them to search for deed restriction violations?

It's a video cornucopia from the eyes in the sky.

I'll tell you one thing, if I was in the "hair replacement business", I'd be flying one over The Villages every day, looking for potential customers.

[shut the front door]

Yes, The USA military has many drone pilots with years of training holding top secret security clearances. They are treated with great respect.

Any more questions?

Yes. We understand that drone operators being called pilots has obviously triggered you. Why? Get out and enjoy the villages!

[fdpaq0580]

Drone owners and aficionados may know the answer. Can a laser pointer bring down a drone? And, "if you throw it hard enough" is not the answer I'm looking for.
And, I don't own a laser pointer, and I have no desire to damage anyone's drone. Just curious.
Thanks

[Shipping up to Boston]

I'm sure all the drone pilots in TV are using their Amazon drones to assist law enforcement, fire departments and of course, helping all the real estate professionals and producing video fly-overs of all the wonderful amenities under construction down south.

They could't be using them to check out the women line dancing in the Squares, could they?

Or ... maybe they're using them to search for deed restriction violations?

It's a video cornucopia from the eyes in the sky.

I'll tell you one thing, if I was in the "hair replacement business", I'd be flying one over The Villages every day, looking for potential customers.

Any of you ‘pilots’ seen my Titleist!

[fdpaq0580]

Any of you ‘pilots’ seen my Titleist!

Trust me. You wouldn't want it back.

[Goldwingnut]

Drone owners and aficionados may know the answer. Can a laser pointer bring down a drone? And, "if you throw it hard enough" is not the answer I'm looking for.
And, I don't own a laser pointer, and I have no desire to damage anyone's drone. Simply curious.
Thanks

No, it has no effect on them unless you hit the camera, that won't damage the camera or bring down the drone, only annoy the pilot because you ruined their photo/video.

[EdFNJ]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?. I'm curious as to what about watching birds is fun and enjoyable? Or sitting in front of a TV watching sports and drinking beer or many other things. Everyone has their own means of enjoyment through their hobbies (or habits). For me it's because I never could afford to go for a REAL pilots license and this is a cheap substitute! I can pretend and live vicariously through my imagination !!!!! :a20::a20:

[MDFlyer]

People who "fly" drones, call themselves "Pilots"?

Well that certainly cheapen's my FAA Airmen's Certificate.

I have nearly all FAA licenses to fly helicopters and airplanes, and I also consider myself an FAA licensed Drone pilot. I do not consider being called a drone"pilot" cheapen my other certificates. Flying is flying.

[BrianL99]

. For me it's because I never could afford to go for a REAL pilots license and this is a cheap substitute! I can pretend and live vicariously through my imagination !!!!! :a20::a20:

One of the most proficient young pilots (under 250 hours flying time) I ever met, was young kid I hired to deliver an airplane I sold. The FAA regs required approximately 40 hours of classroom & 40 hours of flying time, for a Private Pilot's License. Most folks take about 60 hours of flying time, to pass the test. This young man did it with 41 hours. Same story with his Instrument Rating. Turns out, he had been "flying" Flight Simulator in his basement for years. Generational differences.

Another fellow I know (my Optometrist) ended up in Divorce Court. He used to spend 4-5 hours a night in his basement, flying all over the world on his Flight Simulator. He was about the best "Flight Plan" planner I had ever seen ... but he had never actually been in a small airplane. When I bought my last airplane, I went over to his office to bring him to the airport for a ride. He was scared to death and wouldn't even come to the airport with me. He loved the vicarious thrill of flying to Amsterdam in his basement, but quick ride for a $200 hamburger, scared him to death.

[Altavia]

. I'm curious as to what about watching birds is fun and enjoyable? Or sitting in front of a TV watching sports and drinking beer or many other things. Everyone has their own means of enjoyment through their hobbies (or habits). For me it's because I never could afford to go for a REAL pilots license and this is a cheap substitute! I can pretend and live vicariously through my imagination !!!!! :a20::a20:

Drones are on my list of things interesting to try when no longer able to do more demanding physical activities.

Long, long ago, I used to fly RC planes but enjoyed building them more than flying. Which was good given how frequently they crashed :-)

[Altavia]

To answer a question above, I enjoy getting a unique vantage point over a common area that's not normally seen (or easily assessable). Also, I make personal video diaries of my travels where I'll have my drone follow me while I ride a bike or drive a boat, etc. It just adds a little extra to an otherwise boring video of mine.


How do the rules/regulations apply when the drone is following you (rather than being piloted)?

[Shipping up to Boston]

One of the most proficient young pilots (under 250 hours flying time) I ever met, was young kid I hired to deliver an airplane I sold. The FAA regs required approximately 40 hours of classroom & 40 hours of flying time, for a Private Pilot's License. Most folks take about 60 hours of flying time, to pass the test. This young man did it with 41 hours. Same story with his Instrument Rating. Turns out, he had been "flying" Flight Simulator in his basement for years. Generational differences.

Another fellow I know (my Optometrist) ended up in Divorce Court. He used to spend 4-5 hours a night in his basement, flying all over the world on his Flight Simulator. He was about the best "Flight Plan" planner I had ever seen ... but he had never actually been in a small airplane. When I bought my last airplane, I went over to his office to bring him to the airport for a ride. He was scared to death and wouldn't even come to the airport with me. He loved the vicarious thrill of flying to Amsterdam in his basement, but quick ride for a $200 hamburger, scared him to death.

Not sure this equates but my family member (an attorney) had a colleague who graduated from Harvard and at the top of his class at Harvard Law. He took the bar exam approximately 9 times in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s...couldn’t pass it. Went on to have a great career as a paralegal and had a prolific title search business as well at that time. So I guess practicing on the periphery but I wonder how many untapped, talented people we lose in every genre because of test anxiety

[BrianL99]

I have nearly all FAA licenses to fly helicopters and airplanes, and I also consider myself an FAA licensed Drone pilot. I do not consider being called a drone"pilot" cheapen my other certificates. Flying is flying.

You're way more of a "pilot" than I'll ever be and you were a real "pilot" long before you were authorized to fly a drone.

To me, people calling themselves "Pilots" because they're authorized to fly a drone, is like a CNA saying they're a "Medical Professional". Or my favorite, a friend of mine who was a School Superintendent and a member of the country club I belonged to. He insisted that staff at the club refer to him as "Doctor", in respect for his Doctorate in Education.

Pretentiousness doesn't look good on anyone. False pretentiousness, is even less attractive.

& you rotorcraft guys will always have my utmost respect. Not only for how difficult it is to fly one, but for the missions rotorcraft guys fly. Most of the fixed wing guys I know, can't fathom what it's like to fly a Huey into raging battle on a SAR mission or land on a skyscraper roof with a 1000' ceiling, to evacuate someone.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

[Two Bills]

In Ukraine, many of the "fly for fun" drone operators are now a major factor in holding back the Russian invasion.
As some countries argue and politicize supply of shells of all sizes and small arms ammunition, the drones are carrying a major load in defense.
The innovations in drone defense and attack, is re-writing the military warfare handbook, both on land, air, and at sea.
Homemade Ukrainian sea drones have made the Black Sea practically a no-go zone for the Russian Navy, who have lost many ships to them. Also for the cost of one or two small Mavic Drones, hundreds of million dollar tanks, APC's etc. have been destroyed.

[BrianL99]

In Ukraine, many of the "fly for fun" drone operators are now a major factor in holding back the Russian invasion.
As some countries argue and politicize supply of shells of all sizes and small arms ammunition, the drones are carrying a major load in defense.
The innovations in drone defense and attack, is re-writing the military warfare handbook, both on land, air, and at sea.
Homemade Ukrainian sea drones have made the Black Sea practically a no-go zone for the Russian Navy, who have lost many ships to them. Also for the cost of one or two small Mavic Drones, hundreds of million dollar tanks, APC's etc. have been destroyed.

When the Russians attack The Villages, I'm sure we'll all be forever thankful to our amateur drone community.

[tweetybird10]

I have a great deal of respect for Drone President Don Wiley. He has dedicated numerous hours to studying the FAA rules and regulations for drones and has taught several educational classes on drone operation. We should value his judgment and common sense approach. Wishing blue skies for all!!

[Shipping up to Boston]

Voyeurism, mostly.

The more these threads play out the more scenarios that come to mind. For generations people flew kites in open spaces like fields and beaches....respecting private properties and it’s inhabitants. Drones in their infancy were used similarly. Once they were designed with cameras and smartphone capability, that’s where some (not all) used them in a less respectful manner. As humans we’re all inquisitive but the ‘voyeurism’ tag you speak of definitely applies in some cases.

[BrianL99]

One of the most proficient young pilots (under 250 hours flying time) I ever met, was young kid I hired to deliver an airplane I sold. The FAA regs required approximately 40 hours of classroom & 40 hours of flying time, for a Private Pilot's License. Most folks take about 60 hours of flying time, to pass the test. This young man did it with 41 hours. Same story with his Instrument Rating. Turns out, he had been "flying" Flight Simulator in his basement for years. Generational differences.




Not sure this equates but my family member (an attorney) had a colleague who graduated from Harvard and at the top of his class at Harvard Law. He took the bar exam approximately 9 times in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s...couldn’t pass it. Went on to have a great career as a paralegal and had a prolific title search business as well at that time. So I guess practicing on the periphery but I wonder how many untapped, talented people we lose in every genre because of test anxiety

I think it's very applicable. Had the young fellow I mentioned not have found the money to get FAA Certified or had "test anxiety", he might never have realized his potential. His talent and ability to fly an airplane was extraordinary and I'm sure there's plenty more like him.

Flight Sims these days, are amazingly realistic and in fact, the 1st time that JetBlue pilot who's flying your plane lands that Airbus A320 with 200+ passengers aboard, might be the very first time he's ever done it.

[Two Bills]

When the Russians attack The Villages, I'm sure we'll all be forever thankful to our amateur drone community.

If the factions in the Senate don't stop playing silly boogers, it could be sooner than you think!

[fdpaq0580]

No, it has no effect on them unless you hit the camera, that won't damage the camera or bring down the drone, only annoy the pilot because you ruined their photo/video.

Thanks. I enjoy the videos of amazing scenery that drones capture.

[garrykolb]

OK - I have to weigh in here on the whole "pilot" thing. First off, I am a pilot. I don't fly anymore, but I am licensed by the FAA as a private pilot for single-engine, land-based aircraft. I have a complex endorsement as well as an instrument rating.

Getting all that BS out of the way, here is what Miriam-Webster says about the term, "pilot".

a person who flies or is qualified to fly an aircraft or spacecraft

And here is what it says about the term, "aircraft".

a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air

And finally, what they define as a "drone".

an uncrewed aircraft or vessel guided by remote control or onboard computers

So, a drone is an aircraft, and someone controlling a drone is by definition, a pilot. Period.

And yes, I also pilot a drone.

To all those "holier than thou" folks complaining about the use of "pilot", lighten up. Seriously, get a hobby other than being snarky on TOTV. I hear there are several available in The Villages.

[Shipping up to Boston]

OK - I have to weigh in here on the whole "pilot" thing. First off, I am a pilot. I don't fly anymore, but I am licensed by the FAA as a private pilot for single-engine, land-based aircraft. I have a complex endorsement as well as an instrument rating.

Getting all that BS out of the way, here is what Miriam-Webster says about the term, "pilot".

a person who flies or is qualified to fly an aircraft or spacecraft

And here is what it says about the term, "aircraft".

a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air

And finally, what they define as a "drone".

an uncrewed aircraft or vessel guided by remote control or onboard computers

So, a drone is an aircraft, and someone controlling a drone is by definition, a pilot. Period.

And yes, I also pilot a drone.

To all those "holier than thou" folks complaining about the use of "pilot", lighten up. Seriously, get a hobby other than being snarky on TOTV. I hear there are several available in The Villages.

I’m not a pilot...I don’t fly drones. So as a lay person, not giving a s**t about what the FAA determines, a pilot is in my world a professional. Professionally trained and educated. Not a hobbyist. You can call yourself Maverick for all I care but the majority on here honor the profession in using that title. Im sure the majority of recreational drone ‘pilots’ wouldn’t be protesting if the agency identified them as ‘operators’. Btw, by questioning the title doesn’t mean we are all acting ‘holier than thou’! That may be your issue.

[Boston1945]

I’m not a pilot...I don’t fly drones. So as a lay person, not giving a s**t about what the FAA determines, a pilot is in my world a professional. Professionally trained and educated. Not a hobbyist. You can call yourself Maverick for all I care but the majority on here honor the profession in using that title. Im sure the majority of recreational drone ‘pilots’ wouldn’t be protesting if the agency identified them as ‘operators’. Btw, by questioning the title doesn’t mean we are all acting ‘holier than thou’! That may be your issue.

I think we should take this whole issue to the nine robes in D.C.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I think we should take this whole issue to the nine robes in D.C.

Do they take cases from jailhouse lawyers?! ;)

[BrianL99]

I think we should take this whole issue to the nine robes in D.C.

I suspect Clarence Thomas is a closet drone operator.

He's on a search for Long Dong Silver and the pubic hair on the Coke can.

He's already got footage of Anita Hill.

[DrHitch]

Thanks. I enjoy the videos of amazing scenery that drones capture.

There's an amazing web site with worldwide well-produced drone videos

AirVuz | Best Drone Videos (http://www.airvuz.com)

Check it out

[DrHitch]

Curious what it is about Drone flying for recreation that is fun/enjoyable?

It's like any "toy"....it takes money, skill, and a desire to learn something new.

Lots of pilots post great videos to AirVuz | Best Drone Videos (http://www.airvuz.com)

[EdFNJ]

How do the rules/regulations apply when the drone is following you (rather than being piloted)?

When it is "following you" (I assume it's your own drone doing that not some unknown person trying to tail you :) ). The law says YOU still must be in full control at all times. YOU are still piloting it which is "the law" and must still be in full control of it.

I think this explains it:

eCFR :: 14 CFR 107.19 -- Remote pilot in command. (FAR 107.19) (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-107/subpart-B/section-107.19)
(Don, correct me if I am wrong!)

[Altavia]

When it is "following you" (I assume it's your own drone doing that not some unknown person trying to tail you :) ). The law says YOU still must be in full control at all times. YOU are still piloting it which is "the law" and must still be in full control of it.

I think this explains it:

eCFR :: 14 CFR 107.19 -- Remote pilot in command. (FAR 107.19) (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-107/subpart-B/section-107.19)
(Don, correct me if I am wrong!)

Thanks!

[bmcgowan13]

I fly my drone from my house over to the square all the time. Is it your suggestion that I get permission from the hundreds of homes that I fly over on any given day?
Tell me you know nothing about drones without telling me...

I thought we had to comply with the FARs:

In addition, for Category 2 operations, no remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID.

Category 3 small UAS have further operating restrictions. A remote pilot in command may not operate a small unmanned aircraft over open-air assemblies of human beings. Additionally, a remote pilot in command may only operate a small unmanned aircraft over people if:

The operation is within or over a closed- or restricted-access site and all people on site are on notice that a small UAS may fly over them; or

The small unmanned aircraft does not maintain sustained flight over any person unless that person is participating directly in the operation or located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.

Are you saying that flight over the squares does not require compliance with the flight regulations because it is not "sustained flight"? I always thought the closed/restricted access site was for things like concerts, graduations, movie sets, parties, motocross races, etc where the spectators agree to flyovers as the cost of admission.

Are we able to legally fly over the square because the Villages has an exemption or implied approval due to being in attendance at the square, and/or since everyone is a resident that approval is implied?

That's a cool idea if we do not require FAR compliance but I am not yet totally convinced...

I thought since September of 2023 all sUAS required Remote ID as well. Does the local PD use drone tracker software to identify drones over golf courses or moving vehicles? But---are they even getting complaints?

[BrianL99]

I thought we had to comply with the FARs:

...

I thought since September of 2023 all sUAS required Remote ID as well. Does the local PD use drone tracker software to identify drones over golf courses or moving vehicles? But---are they even getting complaints?

This is going to start getting good, now.

Watch out for all the experts running for cover.

[Shipping up to Boston]

This is going to start getting good, now.

Watch out for all the experts running for cover.

Too funny!

[shut the front door]

OK - I have to weigh in here on the whole "pilot" thing. First off, I am a pilot. I don't fly anymore, but I am licensed by the FAA as a private pilot for single-engine, land-based aircraft. I have a complex endorsement as well as an instrument rating.

Getting all that BS out of the way, here is what Miriam-Webster says about the term, "pilot".

a person who flies or is qualified to fly an aircraft or spacecraft

And here is what it says about the term, "aircraft".

a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air

And finally, what they define as a "drone".

an uncrewed aircraft or vessel guided by remote control or onboard computers

So, a drone is an aircraft, and someone controlling a drone is by definition, a pilot. Period.

And yes, I also pilot a drone.

To all those "holier than thou" folks complaining about the use of "pilot", lighten up. Seriously, get a hobby other than being snarky on TOTV. I hear there are several available in The Villages.

Very well said, but I'm sure it will trigger another dozen posts from the "holier than thou".

[bmcgowan13]

I’m not a pilot...I don’t fly drones. So as a lay person, not giving a s**t about what the FAA determines, a pilot is in my world a professional. Professionally trained and educated. Not a hobbyist. You can call yourself Maverick for all I care but the majority on here honor the profession in using that title. Im sure the majority of recreational drone ‘pilots’ wouldn’t be protesting if the agency identified them as ‘operators’. Btw, by questioning the title doesn’t mean we are all acting ‘holier than thou’! That may be your issue.

LOL. Agreed. Phil McGraw calls himself "Dr. Phil". He has a PHD from North Texas State University and we call him doctor. We bestow the honorific on veterinarians, dermatologists, (See Seinfeld S9E7), Dr. Dre, Laura Schlessinger, Ruth Westheimer, the Pimple Popper, chiropractors, reverent pastors (Dr. MLK) and even Bill Cosby.

They put in the time--

I am okay calling them what they want. I have been an FAA licensed pilot since 1975 and (what I thought was) a Part 107 drone "operator" since 2017. Please call me "Your Majesty"...

Whether I am a "pilot" or an "operator" I am still responsible for the sUAS.

Control the aircraft and don't cause damage...

[Shipping up to Boston]

LOL. Agreed. Phil McGraw calls himself "Dr. Phil". He has a PHD from North Texas State University and we call him doctor. We bestow the honorific on veterinarians, dermatologists, (See Seinfeld S9E7), Dr. Dre, Laura Schlessinger, Ruth Westheimer, the Pimple Popper, chiropractors, reverent pastors (Dr. MLK) and even Bill Cosby.

They put in the time--

I am okay calling them what they want. I have been an FAA licensed pilot since 1975 and (what I thought was) a Part 107 drone "operator" since 2017. Please call me "Your Majesty"...

Whether I am a "pilot" or an "operator" I am still responsible for the sUAS.

Control the aircraft and don't cause damage...

Appreciate your honesty and candor.....’Your Majesty’ ;)

[JoMar]

I’m not a pilot...I don’t fly drones. So as a lay person, not giving a s**t about what the FAA determines, a pilot is in my world a professional. Professionally trained and educated. Not a hobbyist. You can call yourself Maverick for all I care but the majority on here honor the profession in using that title. Im sure the majority of recreational drone ‘pilots’ wouldn’t be protesting if the agency identified them as ‘operators’. Btw, by questioning the title doesn’t mean we are all acting ‘holier than thou’! That may be your issue.

Since you don't fly why would you think that those of us that do care what you think.....we don't. We care about the licensing and enforcement. You don't so I also assume you don't fly commercially, or have never flown privately, or you would give a s**t. I suspect the majority are not in your camp but do understand that rather than understand it's better to ignore what you don't have the capability to do and take shots at them. Hope it makes you feel better.

[bmcgowan13]

I have an FAA Private & Instrument Rating.

People ask, "oh, are you a pilot"? I respond, "not really. I'm legal to fly an airplane and fly it in bad weather, but I don't consider myself a 'pilot'. Guys who fly jets in the military and guys sitting up front on your JetBlue flight ... those guys are 'pilots'".

Now I hear that guys who filled out the card that came in the box of their $79.95 drone and mailed it to the FAA, are now calling themselves "pilots" ?

It reminds of reading posts on FaceBook, where someone is talking about their daughter Suzy, "who's is going to Medical School". Well, Suzy isn't exactly going to "Med School", she's taking a 4 day course to be a CNA.

Respectfully disagree with you. I soloed in fall of 1975; ferried new airplanes for Cessna to build time. I was an ATC for 34 years at ZBW. Part 107 sUAS since 2016.

If you have have an Instrument Rating...*you* are a pilot sir. In fact, I always had more respect, admiration, and consideration for the guy (or gal) flying the C182, Bonanza or twin-Beech in the soup than I did the Part-121 guys..and tried to pass that on to all of my ATC trainees.

*YOU* had to balance the workload of navigating, flying the aircraft, calming the pax, and communicating with ATC by yourself. The airline crews (which I love..love...love) had ACARS, a flight director, jet throttles (no mix, rpms and pitch), cabin attendants, GPS and a two-person crew to to do all of the stuff you had to do by yourself.

Smaller does NOT mean easier... Kudos to you captain..

I would buy your coffee if I met you...LOL

[DrHitch]

Hi all,
Thank you for all the feedback and remarks. I am going to close this thread. If you want to PM myself or Don Wiley or anyone else, that's fine. In summary:

1) There are no specific rules & regulations in place for flying drones within The Villages (my original query)
2) Don Wiley runs the drone club in The Villages, and they actively pilot and fly at the Soaring Eagles baseball fields
3) If you own a drone, you need to complete the FAA Trust self-certification if you are flying fur recreation. Anything else requires completion of the FAA 107 certification knowledge test. It is not complex and there are lots of online resources to prep for the test.

That's it for now.........

[Shipping up to Boston]

[QUOTE=JoMar;2309244]Since you don't fly why would you think that those of us that do care what you think.....we don't. We care about the licensing and enforcement. You don't so I also assume you don't fly commercially, or have never flown privately, or you would give a s**t. I suspect the majority are not in your camp but do understand that rather than understand it's better to ignore what you don't have the capability to do and take shots at them. Hope it makes you feel better.[/QUOTE

‘Never have a battle of wits with those that are clearly unarmed’ ......or in this case the late arriving guests. This post has twisted and turned for days. If you purport to be thorough in your commentary, don’t cherry pick posts. Read them all. This isn’t about commercial flights or private ones because if it was, then you would see the point. It’s professional vs recreational. Pilot designation vs Operator designation. This is all of us giving our opinions....you didn’t ask....it’s a forum!!!

[JMintzer]

The ego on some people!
The obsession with titles.
Dont get me started....Chiropractors and Podiatrists (kidding) but it's a Seinfeld episode brewing here!

At least you're no an "Anti-Dentite"...

Now, about that "Podiatrist" crack... :grumpy::D

[Shipping up to Boston]

At least you're no an "Anti-Dentite"...

Now, about that "Podiatrist" crack... :grumpy::D

Great episode!

[Goldwingnut]

I thought we had to comply with the FARs:

In addition, for Category 2 operations, no remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID.

Category 3 small UAS have further operating restrictions. A remote pilot in command may not operate a small unmanned aircraft over open-air assemblies of human beings. Additionally, a remote pilot in command may only operate a small unmanned aircraft over people if:

The operation is within or over a closed- or restricted-access site and all people on site are on notice that a small UAS may fly over them; or

The small unmanned aircraft does not maintain sustained flight over any person unless that person is participating directly in the operation or located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.

Are you saying that flight over the squares does not require compliance with the flight regulations because it is not "sustained flight"? I always thought the closed/restricted access site was for things like concerts, graduations, movie sets, parties, motocross races, etc where the spectators agree to flyovers as the cost of admission.

Are we able to legally fly over the square because the Villages has an exemption or implied approval due to being in attendance at the square, and/or since everyone is a resident that approval is implied?

That's a cool idea if we do not require FAR compliance but I am not yet totally convinced...

I thought since September of 2023 all sUAS required Remote ID as well. Does the local PD use drone tracker software to identify drones over golf courses or moving vehicles? But---are they even getting complaints?

Good question.
Let's clarify what is meant by flying over the squares. The issue is not the location, it is flying over people that is an issue and you were correct in identifying section D of 14cfr107 and the four categories that allow operations over people.

You can fly over the squares legally, I've done it many times, as long as you don't fly over crowds/gatherings of people. So if it's 7 AM and the Square is empty, no problem. If Scooter is playing and the square is full of people then no you cannot fly over the squares, unless you meet one of the four categories of Section D of 14cfr107.

Section D, in my opinion, is crafted such that it is nearly impossible for the average pilot to meet or afford the requirements to safely operate over people buy FAA safety standards. Therefore 107.39 requirements apply, or more simply put, it's not allowed.

You can operate nearby as long as you don't create an undue hazard as specified in 107.23. An example of this is that I recorded the Christmas tree lighting in Brownwood this year with my aircraft in a stationary position over the Barnstormer Theater a safe distance.

There is no exemptions in/for The Villages for FAA rules. There are however a few people who disregard these rules and make hazardous flights over the squares and other venues.

RID is now required and there are apps that you can install on your phone to identify the aircraft and pilot locations. I am not aware of LLPD, LCSO, WWPD, or SCSO using any of these apps at this time. Even if they did, it's likely that the idiots who are disregarding the rule for operations over people would be paying little attention to the RID rules either.

[BrianL99]

Respectfully disagree with you. I soloed in fall of 1975; ferried new airplanes for Cessna to build time. I was an ATC for 34 years at ZBW. Part 107 sUAS since 2016.

If you have have an Instrument Rating...*you* are a pilot sir. In fact, I always had more respect, admiration, and consideration for the guy (or gal) flying the C182, Bonanza or twin-Beech in the soup than I did the Part-121 guys..and tried to pass that on to all of my ATC trainees.

*YOU* had to balance the workload of navigating, flying the aircraft, calming the pax, and communicating with ATC by yourself. The airline crews (which I love..love...love) had ACARS, a flight director, jet throttles (no mix, rpms and pitch), cabin attendants, GPS and a two-person crew to to do all of the stuff you had to do by yourself.

Smaller does NOT mean easier... Kudos to you captain..

I would buy your coffee if I met you...LOL

Thanks for the kind words.

I get that the guys flying Jet Blue and other Commercial aircraft these days, are in a different category than the guys who flew them in the VOR days, without all the computer help. Now a days, the flying part is easier, but they're getting paid the big bucks because they're trained to handle the few emergencies that come up.

There's no better example in recent history, than "Sully Sullenberger" landing on the Hudson. He himself has said, "I didn't do anything special, only what any well trained pilot would do".

What Sully did that was special, was keep his cool in a stressful emergency, let his training take over and saved 155 lives.

If you were ATC at ZBW for 34 years we've certainly "spoken". You probably came in at the end of the PATCO days? If you don't know my brother and father, you've surely heard of them. You'd laugh if I told you who they were and buy me more than coffee :wine: G'day.

[JRcorvette]

This is interesting, I think I saw one this evening (3/7) at dusk, and I would think it was over Brownwood square, but this is a guess. The maneuvers gave it away, as no plane (red and green lights) could do what this device did. It stopped midair, and then did a controlled vertical decent until it was out of my view.

I am sure that was a UFO…. :welcome:

[Blueblaze]

Yes, without permission, you do not own the airspace above any property, that is controlled by the FAA.

That's complete BS. The FAA owns the airspace above 500' in unpopulated areas and 1200' everywhere else, and enforces violations of privacy (ownership!) below those limits. Not only that, but as of March 16, every drone is required to have a blue-tooth-enabled transponder that the police (and even you) can monitor, which broadcasts the drone's FAA-identifiable numbers. It is significant, regarding this "airspace ownership" issue, that it is the POLICE (as well as the FAA) have been enabled to detect and prosecute violators.

The moment you acknowledge government confiscation of your private property, you lose it forever, and for everybody. Don't do that.

And if you find some moron flying a drone over your house, call the police.