Newell AED Program- Different View

[Retired55]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

[retiredguy123]

An AED is an "automated external defibrillator". A lot of posters seem to think that everyone is familiar with the same acronyms that they use. They are not.

I wouldn't pay $100 unless every resident agreed to pay the same amount, and actually paid it. Also, why should a single person pay $100, but a couple only pays $50 each? What about a larger household? I doubt that they will be able to collect enough money to buy 25 AEDs. My opinion.

[Kenswing]

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

[Bill14564]

Very ballpark figure would be $2,000 to purchase, some amount to install, then about $500 after three years for batteries and pads.

For 25 devices that comes close to $63,000 or 630 homes each contributing $100. By 2027 you would need to collect again for the next set of batteries and pads. Are there than many homes in the neighborhood?

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

[Kenswing]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic
Just to address some of your concerns. And I can only tell you how our village did/does things.
We had a retired nurse spearhead our effort. She asked for volunteers and established an AED Committee. We printed and distributed flyers with information about the program, so if someone wasn’t on facebook they were still initially informed. Since then our AED Committee has established a stand alone facebook group. If someone has questions and aren’t on facebook they can contact our coordinator directly.
We had tremendous support from the beginning. We have over 100 people trained in CPR and the use of the AED’s.
We also have a Maintenance Committee. We check our AED’s monthly, filling out a checklist and keeping it on file with the Maintenance Coordinator.
We’re in St. Catherine. That’s a six minute drive from Station 47. Add in dispatch time and the time it takes to roll, figure a minimum of eight minutes for first responders to arrive. And that’s if our closest resources are available.
We hold monthly communication tests and quarterly live dispatches. Our average time on scene is around two minutes with AED arrival around 2.5 minutes. As you might know every minute that the brain goes without oxygen reduces the chance of survival by about 10%. If we can get there in two minutes vs eight, it seems like a no brainer to have a local AED program.

[margaretmattson]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic Great post.. The pros and cons should be weighed in an informal meeting at a rec center.

[JMintzer]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

Those who take the initiative to start the program usually are the "boss"...

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

That is typically the first step in purchasing the devices...

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Then don't participate now...

My neighborhood has had the program for years. While I'm not yet a full time resident, I paid my initial $100 (as I believe it's an invaluable program that could possibly save my life when I AM there) and also pay for tickets to the yearly fund raisers we have to maintain the project, even when I cannot attend...

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

CPR training and AED training typically go hand in hand. I know our AED responders are also trained in CPR.

I plan to join the program when I become a frog (there until I croak), as I'm already trained in AED use and CPR.

Batteries need to be replaced. Hence the yearly fundraiser.

And I'm pretty sure that EMS or the Fire Dept helps with checking the machines...

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

This is exactly how the program works. If someone calls 911, they immediately send EMS help, but the next call goes out to the AED team (who undergo training), who respond, as well. They all receive a text and whomever is nearby can respond. Is it perfect? Obviously not. There may be times when no one is around. But it is an excellent adjunct...

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Having all the facts helps...

[Bogie Shooter]

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

This is the best answer. Get VPSD involved no need to reinvent the wheel. They have done this many times.

Here is the program: https://districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/images/PR-%20VCDD018_DHAED_0124.pdf

[TedfromGA]

The AED program for our neighborhood consists of 2 units for ~70 homes, and once a year training for 12 responders. The requested donation is $100/per home every 4 years. This will cover training, pad and battery replacement as well as a reserve for AED unit replacement. As others have indicated this program can get a CPR trained person to the scene of a heart attack in a very short time. EMS and paramedics typical arrival time Village wide is in the order or 7 to 8 minutes. Add at least another minute for the EMS folks to start CPR. So one can conclude the "AED Program" can make a positive impact on a person who has a cardiac event. $100 per 4 years is very cheap insurance - especially if YOU are the one in need.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Thank you to everyone responding to my post. Great to hear some "facts" and honest input on the program. Great that its connected to TV EMS. Mad respect for EMS! I wonder what the OP has to say after all these posts?

I need to add how important prompt, effective, CPR is to a chance at saving life. Circulating blood and oxygen means a lot more than... "No Shock Advised" stated by an AED. Don't think an AED, by itself, will provide a chance at life with a functioning brain. I again say that CPR should be your first thought to save a pulseless life. I again urge everyone to be competent in CPR, AED, and Heimlich for choking. If it happens to you or someone around you, you're best bet is having trained people around you. Having people afraid to initiate CPR due to lack of training and waiting for EMS is not conducive to positive outcomes...aka survival...in the Emergency Department when your body arrives. The reality is that the resuscitation chain has to be perfectly initiated to get about a 12% survival rate, outside the hospital. Fast to start and effective CPR gives the most chance.

I'm beginning to see that there is a huge reliance on these trained neighbors in the existing Villages with AED groups. If I'm drunk at the Square.... I'm not oncall. Eight minutes for EMS to arrive? SMH... Better know CPR yourselves because paying $100 every few years doesn't substitute for knowledge of how to be able help yourself. Again I'm realistic....harsh reality...but real.

[MrChip72]

3. AED's do not provide CPR


Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

[Shipping up to Boston]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

First off, I’m violating my own rule for not reading the whole thread before I post so my apologies in advance.
That said, I would think in this day and age, that the AED would be ‘standard equipment’, especially in an over 55 community. The costs, while somewhat pricey, will never outweigh saving a life. Not a big learning curve with this device as it is voice directed....step by step, usually fool proof. The pads are nominal to replace but as stated before, they do have a shelf life. All that said, maybe if the units were expanded in deployment to other districts, a cheaper per unit cost could be achieved but honestly, I think this is a no brainer for the developer to absorb. In a perfect world obviously. On this one i guess I just assumed they were already in place...

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

First off, I’m violating my own rule for not reading the whole thread before I post so my apologies in advance.
That said, I would think in this day and age, that the AED would be ‘standard equipment’, especially in an over 55 community. The costs, while somewhat pricey, will never outweigh saving a life. Not a big learning curve with this device as it is voice directed....step by step, usually fool proof. The pads are nominal to replace but as stated before, they do have a shelf life. All that said, maybe if the units were expanded in deployment to other districts, a cheaper per unit cost could be achieved but honestly, I think this is a no brainer for the developer to absorb. In a perfect world obviously. On this one i guess I just assumed they were already in place...

So in this day and age....how do you circulate blood carrying oxygen? An AED does not circulate blood and your body dies without oxygen. An AED used on arrival after CPR was started can increase your chance of a positive outcome. CPR is the first thing you should do on a pulseless victim

[BrianL99]

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

Medical and life saving advice on TOTV? It's unfortunate that Phife has passed away and can't join in. Perhaps Lil Durk will come offer some life-saving tips?

[Shipping up to Boston]

Medical and life saving advice on TOTV? It's unfortunate that Phife has passed away and can't join in. Perhaps Lil Durk will come offer some life-saving tips?

Yeah I’m only addressing the OP query about AED purchases and deployment. How it devolved into flexing about First Aid/CPR street cred.....I guess I missed a few posts! ;)

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Yeah I’m only addressing the OP query about AED purchases and deployment. How it devolved into flexing about First Aid/CPR street cred.....I guess I missed a few posts! ;)

Ha! You're funny and your posts are appreciated. The only flexing I want is if I go down and need CPR to have a chance. Don't want neighborhood thinking the AED is like Jesus and gonna rise me from the dead

[asianthree]

Ha! You're funny and your posts are appreciated. The only flexing I want is if I go down and need CPR to have a chance. Don't want neighborhood thinking the AED is like Jesus and gonna rise me from the dead

I haven’t heard that AED joke in years, but it’s still scary to think some are a believer.

Have seen in older neighborhoods that 2am call, groggy (2minutes get dressed) then over to the box, (1-2 minutes to unlock grab unit) then to the house, (1-2 minutes in the dark) carefully placing pads, Waiting for the warm up. Yet nobody has checked for a pulse, starting CPR.

After 45 years of training to resurrect the dead, I know my limits, of how long I can maintain compression depth and length of time before need of help. that limit used to be 20 minutes, now 10-12. But I expect that will dwindle as time goes on, and have zero issues admitting that fact. But after 45 years of trauma call, I still can be alert and fully functional at adrenaline rush in less than a minute.

Average TV response from EMS is around 3-8 minutes given experience in TV, since 2010. In our home we are good doing CPR, until EMS comes through front door. Just remember as you are calling 911, unlock front door, turn on lights that only takes less then 5 seconds. Then start CPR


It’s not hard to ask your highly trained coworker to step aside because they are in need of relief. But I found volunteers get a little testy when someone says time for switch.

[JoMar]

My wife and I left the bubble for dinner, the cost with tip was $98.00. The following day that enjoyment was just a memory, the day after it was gone and we moved on to the next expensive memory. For 100 bucks you might help someone live....and that is the better buy. Our neighborhood has 7 units. Not everyone contributed, and that was ok since there were enough of us that felt the benefit was worth it so we got it done. That was 7 years ago, and as people move in and move out we continue to get dontions from those moving in when they know we have the AED's in the neighborhood. And yes, 2 bucks a week is a lot of money :)

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

I haven’t heard that AED joke in years, but it’s still scary to think some are a believer.

Have seen in older neighborhoods that 2am call, groggy (2minutes get dressed) then over to the box, (1-2 minutes to unlock grab unit) then to the house, (1-2 minutes in the dark) carefully placing pads, Waiting for the warm up. Yet nobody has checked for a pulse, starting CPR.

After 45 years of training to resurrect the dead, I know my limits, of how long I can maintain compression depth and length of time before need of help. that limit used to be 20 minutes, now 10-12. But I expect that will dwindle as time goes on, and have zero issues admitting that fact. But after 45 years of trauma call, I still can be alert and fully functional at adrenaline rush in less than a minute.

Average TV response from EMS is around 3-8 minutes given experience in TV, since 2010. In our home we are good doing CPR, until EMS comes through front door. Just remember as you are calling 911, unlock front door, turn on lights that only takes less then 5 seconds. Then start CPR


It’s not hard to ask your highly trained coworker to step aside because they are in need of relief. But I found volunteers get a little testy when someone says time for switch.

Thank you all the years of caring you have given to people. CPR is exhausting and we all need help to back us. Guess that sums up my little campaign to encourage training for everyone that cares about people

[MrChip72]

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

From Harvard University:

“It’s theoretically better than CPR because it can restart the heart, whereas CPR is merely a stopgap.” One study found that a defibrillator-CPR combination improved the survival rate over CPR alone (23% versus 14%).

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

From Harvard University:

“It’s theoretically better than CPR because it can restart the heart, whereas CPR is merely a stopgap.” One study found that a defibrillator-CPR combination improved the survival rate over CPR alone (23% versus 14%).

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

[MplsPete]

What prevents these from being stolen?

[edtherock]

One more perspective: our village has had AEDs for around 20 years. I believe not a single one has been used in 20 years. But batteries must be replaced every few years and maintained etc and a plan of action must be in place to use and find the AED and who is the main person, who is the backup etc etc. Are they really worth it? CPR= fast and no cost and is the most effective way to revive a person. This actually just happened to one of our fellow villagers who stopped breathing on a pickleball court. CPR saved his life, not an AED. I am not seeing the value of the AED. It’s not a perfect world and we are all going to die at some point. Maybe it’s better to have a village CPR class instead of buying a bunch of AEDs?

[bobeaston]

...snipped... Are they really worth it? CPR= fast and no cost and is the most effective way to revive a person. This actually just happened to one of our fellow villagers who stopped breathing on a pickleball court. CPR saved his life, not an AED. I am not seeing the value of the AED. ...snipped...

There's a need for both because they treat two different conditions. (I'm not a medical professional, but have received training in both CPR and AED use.) A very common condition is when the heart is weakened, but still beating, by a "heart attack." It can't pump enough blood and CPR is essential to maintaining life. The other condition is when the heart has lost the electrical signal which keeps it beating. An AED shocks it back into action.

Yes, CPR is more often an effective remedy. But there are rare times when an AED is really needed to resume the heartbeat. In BOTH cases, CPR is essential and should be started immediately while someone else fetches an AED.

BTW, the AED can also do the diagnosis to determine if a shock is needed, but DON'T wait for that. Always start CPR immediately.

[westernrider75]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I can only say that a similar effort was conducted in Monarch Grove several years ago. Those who contributed were asked for $85. I’m not sure how many AED’s were purchased but they are in every neighborhood here and if myself or my husband ever need it, I’m glad it’s there. It’s a small investment to try to save a neighbors’ life.

By the time new batteries are needed there will undoubtedly be some new people that will have the opportunity to contribute then if they choose to.

[bobeaston]

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

[Ignatz]

Just curious…. Where is the closest fire/rescue station to the area of Newell, Dabney & Lake Denham?

I’ve heard Don (GoldWingNut) mention on his videos about the TV’s goal of having a station within 2 miles (I believe) of every home.

[crash]

Very ballpark figure would be $2,000 to purchase, some amount to install, then about $500 after three years for batteries and pads.

For 25 devices that comes close to $63,000 or 630 homes each contributing $100. By 2027 you would need to collect again for the next set of batteries and pads. Are there than many homes in the neighborhood?

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

There has been more than one life saved by these devices in the Villages. So are you saying $100 isn’t worth a life except maybe unless it yours. Pretty shorted sighted for so little money. I am sure if they go ahead with this and you need it they won’t ask if you contributed or not.

[MikeN]

Agree with this sentiment. We have contributed to the project but with resistance the project is bringing something is very wrong. Refund the money and move on

[jimdecastro]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I appreciate the tone and content of your message.

I am the administrator of one of the three Newell FB pages - and also a member of the AED committee - I understand your concerns. These two functions have NOTHING to do with each other, however. Other fundraising events have been on the page. The page's main function is to share with very few exceptions agreed to by members.

The program is vital in my opinion - I paid in Citrus Grove and paid again after I moved to Newell. We kept the fee the same as Citrus Grove. We have NO idea how many people live in a house, so the fee - like Amenities Fees - are per household.

I agree with you 100% that there should be no strongarming and no one should EVER be asked why they are not donating. We had a meeting recently and this exact topic was discussed at length. Hopefully we are taking steps to correct this, and we are focusing on VPSD stats and information on the benefits of AED from outside sources (The Daily Sun did a recent article, for example).

As the Facebook admin, I have seen a couple of posts the asked why they were not supporting and posted that is not an appropriate question or I removed the reply.

The VPSD tells us where the devices go and how many we need. Newell is approximately 9 minutes from the nearest Fire House. There is an AED at Franklin - when it is open. But AEDs in Rec Centers can only be used on Villages facilities. While CPR is ALWAYS the first and most important step, AEDs are vital to increase the chance of survival.

I hope this was helpful. You see my name here and can message me.

[Shipping up to Boston]

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

Well said sir!

[MandoMan]

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

[JamesLove]

My respectful suggestion is to simply avoid over-thinking the issue.

On a yearly basis the cost is less than $20. If you can’t afford to pay then don’t.

If you would like to be involved in the organizing committee or as a responder then do so. If not then don’t.

[Shipping up to Boston]

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

If you were to have an event in your home, most likely a firefighter or EMS professional would be the responder. Both are pretty seasoned in gaining entry. If you live alone, maybe consider investing in an alert system especially if this is of concern to you.

[thelegges]

From Harvard University:

“It’s theoretically better than CPR because it can restart the heart, whereas CPR is merely a stopgap.” One study found that a defibrillator-CPR combination improved the survival rate over CPR alone (23% versus 14%).

True but unless you have that AED in your closet, the minutes waiting for the unit should be used to do CPR. In any setting immediately shake for response, while checking for pulse, or breath. Begin CPR.

One doesn’t sit and watch a non breathing human waiting for a unit. Stopped counting after 100 events, and not once did anyone wait for those pad to be slapped on, even with the unit just outside the door.

So even with a full cart with drugs and opened unit ready to go CPR is first, waiting for that CLEAR announcement.

There are thousands of retired medical people in TV. It’s a bonus when someone has experience or steps away because they have had enough

[Carlsondm]

25 AEDs? What a deal. Linden Isle has 2, supported by a $60 donation. How many AEDs per person did they plan for?
Who ever decided to run your project is an autocrat/poor communicator, forcing their priorities on you. You have a right to make noise.

If you don’t donate, do they withhold services to you? Is this a one time donation? These devices need maintenance. If they didn’t tell me what we are purchasing and how the program will be run, I would hesitate to donate. Needs better organization and leadership.

[thelegges]

If you were to have an event in your home, most likely a firefighter or EMS professional would be the responder. Both are pretty seasoned in gaining entry. If you live alone, maybe consider investing in an alert system especially if this is of concern to you.

Actually the fire department has program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry.

We have fall alert on our Alexa and yes it was activated when a was alone and took a bad fall. Calls went to my contacts, within seconds. Since they are all medical each responding appropriately to their task

[Maker]

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

Average TV response from EMS is around 3-8 minutes given experience in TV, since 2010.

There is an app for your phone called Pulse Point. Next time you hear sirens, open that app and look for the call. Note the time for when that call initiated.
I am about 1 mile from a fire station, and the typical amount of time that passes is longer then 8 minutes for 95% of the calls. And they are still in route to the call. That's not very good. IMO, it's awful for a paid department. Even subtracting 2 minutes drive time, 6+ minutes to get out the door leaves a lot of room for improvement.
Someone having a heart attack needs help a lot faster than that. The "golden window" of less than 4 minutes is the goal to have CPR started if there is any hopes of a good outcome.
The AED program also gets trained help moving asap. Not one, but many people. Some will start CPR. Some will grab the AED. Nearly every time these neighbors arrive well before EMS. It's more than just buying a machine.

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

The AED program also trains about what is the right thing to do. That made up example is NOT how people are trained.

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

EXACTLY !!

But please remember that CPR + AED is not a miracle cure for a heart attack. Even with both on scene, survival rates are very low, but there is a chance a life can be saved. Hovever, without them, they will die 100% of the time.
Somebody having a heart attack has several factors that caused that to happen. Those conditions don't vanish when help arrives. The goal is to keep the patient viable until advanced life support can intervene, and get them to a hospital with all the modern life saving equipment and medicines are available.

[M2inOR]

Each Village may have hundreds of homes, perhaps even 1,000, 2,000, or more.

To have one organization to handle takes a lot of responders and managers, as well as thousands of dollars. That is a huge task.

Here in Marsh Bend, I am the coordinator for our neighborhood of 103 homes. We have 2 AEDs, and asked for $100 from each home to get the project started. We got about 80% participation, and a few homeowners contributed more than what was asked. Even a few of the homes that were rented contributed.

My wife and I are the overall neighborhood coordinators. We have a private email list, a private Facebook group, a periodic newsletter, and a monthly social.

We call ourselves the Marsh Bend Reserve.

We have approximately 15 primary responders, and have trained about 22 people.

Yes, not everyone believes in the overall AED project, but that is ok and understood.

I know some of the other coordinators south of 44, and am very thankful to other coordinators and VPSD who helped us get started.

It takes a bit of work to get started, as well as serious project management skills.

Good luck, and thank you to the volunteers who start and maintain these efforts.

[mntlblok]

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

Wow. This thread caused me to look into some review. Found much better than a review here. Shockable Rhythms | ACLS.com (https://acls.com/articles/shockable-rhythms/)

Been a while since my last CPR course. Are they still just recommending compressions at a rapid rate without intervening "breaths"? Never mind. Shamed myself into googling it. Are Rescue Breaths Necessary During CPR? - HSI (https://hsi.com/blog/are-rescue-breaths-necessary-during-cpr) So, 15 and 2 still the ratio and one-one thousand, two-one thousand still the rate? TIA

[KsJayhawkers]

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

Agree 100%!!! Your CPR instructor provided you horrible information. I am hoping you misunderstood and he/she is not telling students AED's are more effective.

[Andyb]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

There is no way they need 25 AED units, 90% of the time the responders will be doing CPR.

[jimdecastro]

This is the best answer. Get VPSD involved no need to reinvent the wheel. They have done this many times.

Here is the program: https://districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/images/PR-%20VCDD018_DHAED_0124.pdf

We are working with the VSPD closely.

[jimdecastro]

Thank you to everyone responding to my post. Great to hear some "facts" and honest input on the program. Great that its connected to TV EMS. Mad respect for EMS! I wonder what the OP has to say after all these posts?

I need to add how important prompt, effective, CPR is to a chance at saving life. Circulating blood and oxygen means a lot more than... "No Shock Advised" stated by an AED. Don't think an AED, by itself, will provide a chance at life with a functioning brain. I again say that CPR should be your first thought to save a pulseless life. I again urge everyone to be competent in CPR, AED, and Heimlich for choking. If it happens to you or someone around you, you're best bet is having trained people around you. Having people afraid to initiate CPR due to lack of training and waiting for EMS is not conducive to positive outcomes...aka survival...in the Emergency Department when your body arrives. The reality is that the resuscitation chain has to be perfectly initiated to get about a 12% survival rate, outside the hospital. Fast to start and effective CPR gives the most chance.

I'm beginning to see that there is a huge reliance on these trained neighbors in the existing Villages with AED groups. If I'm drunk at the Square.... I'm not oncall. Eight minutes for EMS to arrive? SMH... Better know CPR yourselves because paying $100 every few years doesn't substitute for knowledge of how to be able help yourself. Again I'm realistic....harsh reality...but real.

The AED training stresses CPR first and then send the second person to get the AED.

[KsJayhawkers]

In our Village, we had a group of eight who spearheaded the AED project. We queried residents to see if a majority would like AEDs, invited the TVFD to give a presentation to our community, held a question/answer session, and began receiving donations. We have eight AEDs strategically placed throughout our small Village of 471 residents and over 40+ trained responders. Since its inception, we have had two critical incidents. In each case, CPR was performed and no AEDs were used due to the quick response of TVFD. Based on our training and quick response of our trained volunteers, we prolonged one life.

Since your Village is remote, your closest FD is on Morse BLVD across from Chitty Chatty. Your villages would greatly benefit from having an AED program in place with trained responders. Not sure if you are in Sumter County or Lake County, but in Sumter County, they now have a AED program in place. If a Village has an established AED program, at the end of the AEDs lifespan (typically four years), Sumter County will pay to replace that AED if it meets certain criteria.

[jimdecastro]

Just curious…. Where is the closest fire/rescue station to the area of Newell, Dabney & Lake Denham?

I’ve heard Don (GoldWingNut) mention on his videos about the TV’s goal of having a station within 2 miles (I believe) of every home.
Newell is 9 minutes away - if there is no other call. Lake Denham and Dabney more. The planned fire houses are FURTHER away.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The AED training stresses CPR first and then send the second person to get the AED.

Exactly. One complements the other. The moral of this story errr thread is to get certified. It doesn’t take that long to obtain and most importantly pay attention in the classes. FL like many states, I believe has the Good Samaritan Law in effect so you have an obligation to perform and protections as well if you do

[jimdecastro]

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.
Call 911. They alert an app your trained neighbors have.

[Ptmcbriz]

We are in Hawkins and gladly donated to the program. Most of the retired nurses I know here are on the emergency response team in the neighborhood. Most likely they will get to your door two minutes before the EMTs arrive. If they save one life over the years, that will be the best $100 I ever spent. Most women spend that much on their nails in a month. Nails or saving a life? No brainer for me.

[Robojo]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I say LET THE MORSE FAMILY foot the bill. You don't build the biggest senior community in the world and not include these life saving gadgets!

[jimdecastro]

25 AEDs? What a deal. Linden Isle has 2, supported by a $60 donation. How many AEDs per person did they plan for?
Who ever decided to run your project is an autocrat/poor communicator, forcing their priorities on you. You have a right to make noise.

If you don’t donate, do they withhold services to you? Is this a one time donation? These devices need maintenance. If they didn’t tell me what we are purchasing and how the program will be run, I would hesitate to donate. Needs better organization and leadership.

We do not deny service to anyone - in fact, the Lifestyle homes are in Newell. Theee is no sticker on the window. Unless the home denies us access we will assist. The budget is for 5 years. Our hope is fundraising will keep up with expenses after that.

[jimdecastro]

25 AEDs? What a deal. Linden Isle has 2, supported by a $60 donation. How many AEDs per person did they plan for?
Who ever decided to run your project is an autocrat/poor communicator, forcing their priorities on you. You have a right to make noise.

If you don’t donate, do they withhold services to you? Is this a one time donation? These devices need maintenance. If they didn’t tell me what we are purchasing and how the program will be run, I would hesitate to donate. Needs better organization and leadership.

As to the organization, we have supplied meetings, mailed fliers and you see from OP posted on FB so often they posted on TOTV.

[jimdecastro]

Wow. This thread caused me to look into some review. Found much better than a review here. Shockable Rhythms | ACLS.com (https://acls.com/articles/shockable-rhythms/)

Been a while since my last CPR course. Are they still just recommending compressions at a rapid rate without intervening "breaths"? Never mind. Shamed myself into googling it. Are Rescue Breaths Necessary During CPR? - HSI (https://hsi.com/blog/are-rescue-breaths-necessary-during-cpr) So, 15 and 2 still the ratio and one-one thousand, two-one thousand still the rate? TIA

Training did say no breaths.

[jimdecastro]

There is no way they need 25 AED units, 90% of the time the responders will be doing CPR.

The Villages determines how many and where. We are over 9 minutes from our fire house.

[mntlblok]

Training did say no breaths.

Fascinating! I do now recall that some of the logic was that two inches of "compression" yields a "rebound" of the chest cavity that would act as a sort of "vacuum" or "negative pressure" that would suck some air in. Enough, I guess, eh?

[mntlblok]

Fascinating! I do now recall that some of the logic was that two inches of "compression" yields a "rebound" of the chest cavity that would act as a sort of "vacuum" or "negative pressure" that would suck some air in. Enough, I guess, eh?


More googlage:

Using An AED - FAQ'''s (https://www.aedsolutions.ca/using-an-aed/)

"How much of the victim's clothing should be removed to carry out defibrillation?

The victim’s chest should be exposed to allow correct placement of the electrode pads. For women this usually means the bra must be removed. Clothes may need to be cut off."

Has that been part of the training? Just watched a Doc Martin episode where the lady's bra was left on for the AED shock. Wondered about that. . .

"Is it okay to place the electrode pads directly on a hairy chest?

Electrode pads are required to make direct skin contact in order for successful defibrillation to occur. In an emergency situation where the chest hair is so excessive as to prevent good adhesion of the electrode pad, the hair must be removed quickly."

Hmmm. . .

I wonder how many folks are prepared to do either, especially when I've heard little in this thread related to decision making even to the level of checking for airway, breathing, and circulation. I sorta kinda know a lot of this stuff, but I'm not at all sure that I could perform properly in all the various possible scenarios. I think I could get the compressions going and keep it up until the Fire Department arrives with *their* AED and the other "right stuff". Pulling an old lady's bra off in public? I don't know. . .

[Proveone]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired
Well stated and I agree!

[SusanStCatherine]

Facebook, like it or not, is widely used in The Villages for communication purposes. I have a friend who had avoided it all her life finally succumb to it at age 67 because groups she participates in uses it. Sounds like the group organizing your AED program is using it as a tool for communication but also using other methods of communication. Kudos to anyone trying to get an AED program initiated and first one to do so therefor has control. I'm pretty sure they have to go through the fire department to set up a functioning alert system and will take guidance from them. Who would be against an AED program in their village?

[thelegges]

We are in Hawkins and gladly donated to the program. Most of the retired nurses I know here are on the emergency response team in the neighborhood. Most likely they will get to your door two minutes before the EMTs arrive. If they save one life over the years, that will be the best $100 I ever spent. Most women spend that much on their nails in a month. Nails or saving a life? No brainer for me.

Experience says nobody is getting out of a sound sleep, answering call, grab clothes, run out the door find the house in two minutes.

Unless they are living in your house, or maybe next door you are asking way more than most can accomplish.

On call (so you know that call is coming) at 3am, call comes i was in my car in 90 seconds because I am sleeping in scrubs, my shoes are at the door. I know that because second call comes at 2 minute mark, asking if you are on your way, and eta. Third call comes at 10 minutes which I would be exiting my car heading in the door.

Why the 3 calls, because even experienced trauma people under the age of 50 have been known to answer first call and slip back to sleep.

[SusanStCatherine]

As for aggressively soliciting contributions - that may be a personal interpretation from someone who does not want to contribute for whatever reason. In St Catherine we had volunteers go door-to-door to collect, which is probably the standard method of collecting. If you don't want to contribute $100 for whatever reason, then don't, you will still be covered by the AED program. I know of people refusing to contribute for silly reasons such as not being here full-time or being of a younger than average age. That's okay because, like me, many people contributed much more than was asked.

[cherylncliff]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

In Buttonwood we implemented AED's some years back but it was done in subunits of the whole village. The Buttonwood islanders was a group of about 50 homes and our social club held several meetings and agreed to move forward. The program included 2 AED's, posts and boxes to secure them and a slush fund to support them for 3 years. This was all done under the auspices of the Villages Fire and Rescue. Also required were 5 to 10 volunteers to get AED and CPR training who further agreed to be first responders. These people were signed up to receive telephone call outs in parallel to the EMS. First responders are usually able to respond within 2 minutes and provide AED and CPR and provide guidance to the house when EMS arrives. In the 5 years we were involved we received 2 call outs. The first was already deceased. In the second our response was 1 minute and we resuscitated the patient and applied CPR for 5 minutes until EMS arrived. The patient survived to the hospital but subsequently passed.

For the AED program to be effective, IMHO, it must be combined with local, trained, neighborhood response.

[SusanStCatherine]

I say LET THE MORSE FAMILY foot the bill. You don't build the biggest senior community in the world and not include these life saving gadgets!

There are Villages supplied AEDs at the rec centers and on some Villages owned property. A neighborhood needs committed residents to form a response team and The Villages cannot dictate that.

[Bogie Shooter]

I say LET THE MORSE FAMILY foot the bill. You don't build the biggest senior community in the world and not include these life saving gadgets!

Will you add to your list….
Haircuts
Groceries
Lawn cutting
Hand holding
Etc.

[Bogie Shooter]

More googlage:

Using An AED - FAQ'''s (https://www.aedsolutions.ca/using-an-aed/)

"How much of the victim's clothing should be removed to carry out defibrillation?

The victim’s chest should be exposed to allow correct placement of the electrode pads. For women this usually means the bra must be removed. Clothes may need to be cut off."

Has that been part of the training? Just watched a Doc Martin episode where the lady's bra was left on for the AED shock. Wondered about that. . .

"Is it okay to place the electrode pads directly on a hairy chest?

Electrode pads are required to make direct skin contact in order for successful defibrillation to occur. In an emergency situation where the chest hair is so excessive as to prevent good adhesion of the electrode pad, the hair must be removed quickly."

Hmmm. . .

I wonder how many folks are prepared to do either, especially when I've heard little in this thread related to decision making even to the level of checking for airway, breathing, and circulation. I sorta kinda know a lot of this stuff, but I'm not at all sure that I could perform properly in all the various possible scenarios. I think I could get the compressions going and keep it up until the Fire Department arrives with *their* AED and the other "right stuff". Pulling an old lady's bra off in public? I don't know. . .

Maybe you should take the AED training to find out how it’s really done.

[SusanStCatherine]

There was a cardiac arrest on a pickelball court in St Catherine. An AED was retrieved from the rec center and the man was shocked and came around. He apparently said it had happened to him before. The paramedic doing our training said he would have loved to have seen that because in all his years he has never seen someone regain consciousness. It's great that we have this AED technology available to us to augment. Everyone should be trained in CPR, it could be a loved one's life you save.

[Blueblaze]

It just strikes me as a scam to sell AED's. But when the AED guy down the street showed up at my door a month after I moved in, $100 seemed cheap to avoid becoming an outcast in my new neighborhood. I paid it and that's the last I ever heard from the guy again. He doesn't even wave if he's in his yard when I walk my dog past his house . Oh, well... I guess that's the price we monkey's pay to live in the troupe.

I don't doubt the noble intentions of the the guy with the AED in his yard. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would save anyone's life but his own. So, what are we saying? I grab my shoulder one morning while trimming the shrubs, and some guy in a golf cart happens by who just happens to know CPR, and the phone number for the guy with the key to the AED just happens to be one of the "favorites" in his phone? Luckily, the AED guy two blocks away happens to be home, and moments later, here he comes screaming down the street with the gadget to save my life? And while the gadget is shocking me back to life, he pulls out his phone and dials 911 to fetch the EMT's from the fire station three blocks away?

I dunno. Seems like a stretch. But never accuse me of challenging monkey customs! Just pay it and quityerbichen!

[Kenswing]

It just strikes me as a scam to sell AED's. But when the AED guy down the street showed up at my door a month after I moved in, $100 seemed cheap to avoid becoming an outcast in my new neighborhood. I paid it and that's the last I ever heard from the guy again. He doesn't even wave if he's in his yard when I walk my dog past his house . Oh, well... I guess that's the price we monkey's pay to live in the troupe.

I don't doubt the noble intentions of the the guy with the AED in his yard. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would save anyone's life but his own. So, what are we saying? I grab my shoulder one morning while trimming the shrubs, and some guy in a golf cart happens by who just happens to know CPR, and the phone number for the guy with the key to the AED just happens to be one of the "favorites" in his phone? Luckily, the AED guy two blocks away happens to be home, and moments later, here he comes screaming down the street with the gadget to save my life? And while the gadget is shocking me back to life, he pulls out his phone and dials 911 to fetch the EMT's from the fire station three blocks away?

I dunno. Seems like a stretch. But never accuse me of challenging monkey customs! Just pay it and quityerbichen!
A little understanding of the program can go a long way. There’s no calling the guy with the combo to the AED. As soon as someone calls 911 and reports a cardiac arrest, the AED responders are sent an alert simultaneously to the fire department being toned out.
Our village is broken into zones. When the call goes out the trained responders in the zone where the incident is gets a text alert along with an automated phone message. In most cases the two adjacent zones to the incident will also be activated just to ensure an adequate number of people respond.

[jayteadunn]

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

[Shipping up to Boston]

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlocks.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o


All great points and very topical/germane to TV. Thank your for your public safety service sir

[TheWatcher]

I am taken aback by the years of public education and the lack of understanding of the general public for the whole issue of initial response and why it is set up the way it is.

The overlying idea of 'CPR' and 'AED' programs is to educate the public to recognize an emergency and activate the rest of the system. They work hand in hand. Then, you go through what you learned in your classes. Here is an outline of initial response and further steps:

https://cpr.heart.org/en/resuscitation-science/cpr-and-ecc-guidelines/algorithms

Pretty complicated, isn't it? But would not happen if you did not activate the system. The percentage survival drops off greatly if you do not have a shockable rhythm. So you do that as soon as you can. The heart pumping itself is much better than even the most efficient CPR. Doing compressions without breaths was added in the algorithm to remove hesitancy of rescuers to start, so at least something is done and more people taught to activate the rest of the system. This did not replace the 'older' methods of compressions and breaths. There is BLS, ACLS, PALS, and many others... CPR and AED is only a small part.

So at least go out and take one of the classes so you know something about EMS and initial medical response. It does not take much time. Guess that more public education is still needed to get the word out.

Finally, go out and live life. There are many people, actities and places to go here. This is only a small if rare event in our groups. We have a great community here and need to be thankful for families and neighbors. Especially those neighbors willing to organize for public service and learn new things.

[Bogie Shooter]

We have a village coordinator who sends emails of things going on.
When we started our AED program an email was sent to everyone indicating the cost. We were asked to drop off at one of the residents. (THERE WAS NO DOOR TO DOOR REQUESTING DONE) Those that wanted to did, there was enough to start the program. There are no scarlet letters on anyone’s house OF THOSE that may have not paid (nobody knows) all are responded to if needed.
Recently monies were requested for maintenance and full filled.
This has been a successful program in The Villages by all accounts.
Be thankful there are neighbors willing to include your village!

[jimjamuser]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic
I also don't use Facebook because I hate Zucherdork.

[HORNET]

Sounds like another Newbee, I have been here many, many years, second home. Both times residents of the Village organized and had the AED’s installed and monies collected. Whether a house hold contributed or not, all were included! Up keep is also done the same way. Watch What You Wish For!

[HORNET]

PS: Sounds like someone is out to make out! Nobody gives you nothing for nothing!

[vinnytalk]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

They have the right to organize whatever they want ,your option is to either join or not, but if you don't they may not come to your aid if you need it one day.

Why is this troubling you?

[Topspinmo]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

IMO in some areas waste of money, they never get used, someone with key has to be available and get there before first responders. Course I live in area that has excellent fire and first responders response times. ( within mile from sub station). Sumter county probably not from past history of wait times for first responders? But, if makes you feel may good worth it. In my villa there are 84 or so residents donation amount was $100 for 3. Yes, I donated even though they probably never get used. So far in 7 years they haven’t.

[CarlR33]

One more perspective: our village has had AEDs for around 20 years. I believe not a single one has been used in 20 years. But batteries must be replaced every few years and maintained etc and a plan of action must be in place to use and find the AED and who is the main person, who is the backup etc etc. Are they really worth it? CPR= fast and no cost and is the most effective way to revive a person. This actually just happened to one of our fellow villagers who stopped breathing on a pickleball court. CPR saved his life, not an AED. I am not seeing the value of the AED. It’s not a perfect world and we are all going to die at some point. Maybe it’s better to have a village CPR class instead of buying a bunch of AEDs? Yes, I would agree. With any effort a (cost) benefit analysis must be done. Before you say a life is priceless has anyone realized that you would need to have a minimum of three people to utilize one of these AED’s, the victim, the spouse or responder who now has to now call 911, the third person to go get the AED or will the spouse just let the person wait there without administering CPR because getting the AED is more important? Lastly, I have not seen one of these at the community pools? Is there one at the community recreation center buildings or pickle ball courts, etc.? Sadly, what if one that was promised in a location is missing, not working, etc?

[JMintzer]

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

You sound like a candidate for "Life Alert"...

Pushing the button will call 911, which will initiate the AED process.

Now, if you can't get to the door to open it, sorry, but that's a major problem. You'll have to wait for EMS to arrive and break in...

[JMintzer]

My respectful suggestion is to simply avoid over-thinking the issue.

On a yearly basis the cost is less than $20. If you can’t afford to pay then don’t.

If you would like to be involved in the organizing committee or as a responder then do so. If not then don’t.

Simple, isn't it? :thumbup:

[JMintzer]

There are Villages supplied AEDs at the rec centers and on some Villages owned property. A neighborhood needs committed residents to form a response team and The Villages cannot dictate that.

Exactly! Let's say TV places the units where needed. Who's gonna' man them?

It's up to the neighborhood...

[JMintzer]

It just strikes me as a scam to sell AED's. But when the AED guy down the street showed up at my door a month after I moved in, $100 seemed cheap to avoid becoming an outcast in my new neighborhood. I paid it and that's the last I ever heard from the guy again. He doesn't even wave if he's in his yard when I walk my dog past his house . Oh, well... I guess that's the price we monkey's pay to live in the troupe.

I don't doubt the noble intentions of the the guy with the AED in his yard. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would save anyone's life but his own. So, what are we saying? I grab my shoulder one morning while trimming the shrubs, and some guy in a golf cart happens by who just happens to know CPR, and the phone number for the guy with the key to the AED just happens to be one of the "favorites" in his phone? Luckily, the AED guy two blocks away happens to be home, and moments later, here he comes screaming down the street with the gadget to save my life? And while the gadget is shocking me back to life, he pulls out his phone and dials 911 to fetch the EMT's from the fire station three blocks away?

I dunno. Seems like a stretch. But never accuse me of challenging monkey customs! Just pay it and quityerbichen!

Somebody didn't read the thread before responding... All of your mistaken assumptions have been addressed, multiple times...

And no one in your neighborhood cares if you donate or not...

[BrianL99]

A little understanding of the program can go a long way. There’s no calling the guy with the combo to the AED. As soon as someone calls 911 and reports a cardiac arrest, the AED responders are sent an alert simultaneously to the fire department being toned out.
Our village is broken into zones. When the call goes out the trained responders in the zone where the incident is gets a text alert along with an automated phone message. In most cases the two adjacent zones to the incident will also be activated just to ensure an adequate number of people respond.


I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

Well this thread has seemingly turned the corner, into substantive and important information.

Thank you both for bringing some value to the conversation.

[JMintzer]

Yes, I would agree. With any effort a (cost) benefit analysis must be done. Before you say a life is priceless has anyone realized that you would need to have a minimum of three people to utilize one of these AED’s, the victim, the spouse or responder who now has to now call 911, the third person to go get the AED or will the spouse just let the person wait there without administering CPR because getting the AED is more important? Lastly, I have not seen one of these at the community pools? Is there one at the community recreation center buildings or pickle ball courts, etc.? Sadly, what if one that was promised in a location is missing, not working, etc?

The responders will not be contacted until 911 is called. The 911 operator alerts the neighborhood responders...

The training does not have you leave a patient to go get the AED. You are trained to stay with the patient and perform CPR (if necessary) until additional help arrives...

They definitely have them at the rec center pools. The postal station pools don't, because there is no local group to respond. The pickleball courts are located by rec centers, so they should have them, as well..

[pokeefe45@aol.com]

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

[asianthree]

You sound like a candidate for "Life Alert"...

Pushing the button will call 911, which will initiate the AED process.

Now, if you can't get to the door to open it, sorry, but that's a major problem. You'll have to wait for EMS to arrive and break in...

As mentioned earlier The fire department has a program for entry to homes without breaking down a door. Box with a key is added to outside home. No major problems involved.

[GizmoWhiskers]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired
The old section of DeLuna by Tate Gregory Villas put one in like 3 years ago. $75 per house.

14 minute response time for EMT care BACK THEN. What is the value of saving a life now $50 to $100. Is saving a life worth it??

No idea if everyone participated in paying their fair or not fair "share". Happy to have seen it everytime I drove by as a 2x CABG zipper-club member.

What does one waste on beer, wine, golf, painting their driveways while living in T V?

FB drama... life is too fricken short to let that raise blood pressure.

[Maker]

Yes, I would agree. With any effort a (cost) benefit analysis must be done. Before you say a life is priceless has anyone realized that you would need to have a minimum of three people to utilize one of these AED’s, the victim, the spouse or responder who now has to now call 911, the third person to go get the AED or will the spouse just let the person wait there without administering CPR because getting the AED is more important? Lastly, I have not seen one of these at the community pools? Is there one at the community recreation center buildings or pickle ball courts, etc.? Sadly, what if one that was promised in a location is missing, not working, etc?

The benefit of having CPR trained people nearby is huge. Consider that many nearby neighbors are now trained in how to do proper CPR. And these people will come to help asap.

They might not be comfortable breaking ribs as they do compressions, but they understand it happens and will continue.
Performing CPR is very exhausting. Having more people there is always better then just one person.
Multiple people splits up the work. Most do CPR, and others grab the AED. I look at the AED boxes in my neighborhood and would notice if one unit was missing. They are extremely reliable, and most likely to work when needed. If two were grabbed for a call, I'd say 100% reliable.

What happens at locations like sports courts? There is a good chance that someone already there has been trained in CPR because of the AED programs. Even without an AED right there, trained people are critical to saving a life.

An AED also monitors the chest compressions. It will instruct the responder to press harder, faster, etc, as needed. That alone improves the quality of CPR.

There are plenty of what-if games people can imagine. Over the years of AEDs being available, and the nationwide data collection that happens from their use, guidelines are developed to make the overall system as best as it can be. Those what-if things are already considered and addressed. Is it 100% perfect - pretty close.

[beckylou152]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

It is recommended to have both CPR and AED training as AED with CPR is twice as effective as CPR alone. Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.mycprcertificationonline.com/blog/cpr-vs-aed-training-which-one-do-i-need#:~:text=The%20American%20Heart%20Association% 20has,person%20survives%20a%20heart%20attack).

[beckylou152]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

These programs are commonly established with the goal of saving lives. I would thank those who are putting in the work (it is a lot) to get this done. If you personally don’t want to contribute, just don’t. They will still try to save your life if you need it someday. I’m confused why this would pit neighbors against each other. If this is so horrible, perhaps ask the AED committee to hold a neighborhood meeting if they haven’t already.

[asianthree]

They have the right to organize whatever they want ,your option is to either join or not, but if you don't they may not come to your aid if you need it one day.

Why is this troubling you?

So just a thought do YOU really think a Volunteer gets a 3am call, then turns on lights pulls out a sheet and says “Not on the I paid List” and goes back to bed?

Real concern do you think a 75yo volunteer even properly trained delivers correct comprehension and rhythm for possibly up to 10 minutes until help arrives.

One can’t count on the spouse standing there because most likely they’re either in shock or not of helping.

I would love to see yearly CPR classes with high tech Annie, that announces your compression is not correct, and you need to correct your rhythm.

Twice a year it was a pain ReCert class for us. Since weekly we performed on humans, but always brought in perspective how even trained staff that can do CPR and fire up AED units and still need tweaking.

Major reason why I retired because I fractured my humerus head. First day I was to return to work I requested, Annie, I performed CPR and four set not accomplishing but coming close. I returned second day performing four sets on Annie. I was very close, but in my mind if it was less than perfect would always wonder alone in that dark hall could I save that person.
Management reminded me I was always with multiple people in OR I was good. I chose not to return. So you will not see me as a volunteer on programs here.

[mntlblok]

Maybe you should take the AED training to find out how it’s really done.

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

[G.R.I.T.S.]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I don’t think they are necessary. My call to 911 had EMTs in my kitchen in 5 minutes. Not enough time for a neighbor to be dispatched with an AED. We declined years ago to participate and haven’t been disparaged.

[edtherock]

Yes cpr and aed’s are for maybe two different conditions. As mentioned 20 years in our village, many many AED,s on each street, many batteries replaced, lots of money etc and not a single ones used! I know personally of 1 case in the last 2 months that CPR brought back the person to life that had stopped breathing. ( that person later had tripled bypass surgery). Now the question: How many people’s lives have been saved by these AED’s that are being controlled by the Villagers? If we believe that even one persons life can be saved by the AED’s that The Villagers manage and that it is worth it , then we should have epi pens for severe reactions that stop people from breathing. We should have Narcan and the list goes on and on. So where does it stop? The better value is to teach everybody CPR in the village! It works everywhere, even places AED’s are not located.
Have a good beer!

[Bogie Shooter]

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

Because you asked the questions..............................

[Marathon Man]

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

[mntlblok]

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.

*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.

On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?

One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.

Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.

Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.

[mntlblok]

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

Might want to read what I posted again if contributing is your intent.

[Bogie Shooter]

Might want to read what I posted again if contributing is your intent.

///////

[Shipping up to Boston]

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

I’ve already commented enough on this thread but one last one....the nation has a severe EMT shortage and thus longer than average response times. Some horrific cases of police having to transport as a result of said shortages/responses. So whether it’s CPR or AED, they both work in concert with each other. The unpaid volunteer groups that supplement and support EMS/Fire.....properly trained in both CPR/AED, are a welcome addition and resource to an issue that, as stated, is in need of an assist at times

[HORNET]

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

[Bogie Shooter]

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

Money maker? Where who….asking for a friend?:confused:

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Hi "little dawg"...lol! It's all good....I'm liking what I'm reading about TV AED program being controlled by the Fire Department because that's who is coming in what sounds like about 12 minutes with ETT, IV, fluids, a drug box, and a REAL defibrillator. That "about 12 minutes" before EMS arrives is the extremely important factor and why I only wanted to stress we should CALL FOR HELP AND IMMEDIATELY START CPR. When EMS eventually transports we might as well guess it's another 12 minutes to the ED, considering all the round-a-bouts...maybe longer. Not a hopeful situation for someone that has no pulse and no respirations. The AED is a tool that must be utilized but rarely effective because of the physiological processes involved in cardiac arrest. It's been suggested here that your heart is a car engine and the AED fixes electrical problems and starts your car. Sounds great but there's a reason the electrical activities can't work.... like your coronary artery disease, diabetes, smoking, blod clots, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, previous heart attack, cardiomyopathy, CHF and on and on and on. Issues that can't be fixed with CPR and an AED.

The reality is that we're getting older and CPR is getting harder for us to maintain effectively, so we need many people trained in BLS because maintaining CPR for 12 minutes or so ain't easy. After my bilateral knee replacements I can't kneel down....(if I'm there hand me a pillow please!) By the time someone comes with the AED your compressions might already be ineffective.

My initial post was not against AED's and I don't believe the OP was complaining about AED's but was just saying ....why didn't this group address the neighborhood first? Someone suggested I should ask for a meeting of this AED committee, but I believe it would have been proper for the person that wants to lead to ask to meet with everyone first and brainstorm. Not after they've decided what they are doing. You remember the Stages of Group Development? Lol.

Pokeefe I think we should train for the AED Team and when Im there I can look into establishing neighborhood BLS training. I'm guessing the AED training is just BLS training, and absolutely everyone should train asap, but we'll find out eventually. I'm guessing they want the AED's in place first......but I will always say CPR first

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.

*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.

On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?

One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.

Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.

Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.

Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.

I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.

I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you

[CarlR33]

/////// Wha?

[JMintzer]

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

When you take the AED training it stresses just that. That CPR MUST me started immediately...

[JMintzer]

As mentioned earlier The fire department has a program for entry to homes without breaking down a door. Box with a key is added to outside home. No major problems involved.

I read that. Good information...

[JMintzer]

I don’t think they are necessary. My call to 911 had EMTs in my kitchen in 5 minutes. Not enough time for a neighbor to be dispatched with an AED. We declined years ago to participate and haven’t been disparaged.

Unless the EMTs are tied up with other emergencies... The the response time increases...

Consider yourself lucky...

[JMintzer]

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

You've said that, multiple times... What proof do you have that causes you to disparage those volunteering for the program?

And each Village IS doing their own thing. That is EXACTLY how the program is being set up... Village by Village...

[asianthree]

I will say the 6 times 911 was called to our home by parents, EMS was at the house a full 4 minutes before the first AED volunteer arrived. Of course each call was between 1am and 3am. Prime time lights no sound.

[Ponygirl]

Thank you to Big Dawg and others for talking abt the importance of initiating CPR immediately

I am a Red Cross certified BLS- CPR/AED/ first aid instructor trainer and high quality CPR is critical High quality CPR means using the correct
hand position and correct depth and tempo for compressions.

The manikins that we use for training have lights that indicate the correct depth and tempo to help students understand how to do the compressions correctly

So some referred to Hands Only or Compression Only CPR - no rescue breaths Keep compressions going without stopping until the area is unsafe or some relieves you or EMS arrives

If using rescue breaths The ratio is 30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths

We recently had a class at First Responders rec center

[TVTVTV]

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

Does anyone know if Pulsepoint covers emergency calls in Lake or Marion counties? I can't find any tracker except for Sumter, and no other app for info.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Thank you to Big Dawg and others for talking abt the importance of initiating CPR immediately

I am a Red Cross certified BLS- CPR/AED/ first aid instructor trainer and high quality CPR is critical High quality CPR means using the correct
hand position and correct depth and tempo for compressions.

The manikins that we use for training have lights that indicate the correct depth and tempo to help students understand how to do the compressions correctly

So some referred to Hands Only or Compression Only CPR - no rescue breaths Keep compressions going without stopping until the area is unsafe or some relieves you or EMS arrives

If using rescue breaths The ratio is 30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths

We recently had a class at First Responders rec center

Hi and thank you! I'm interested in eventually getting training classes held in Lake Denham. It's what everyone truly needs but just don't know it. Once I'm full time I can look at getting more involved. There are many unsold houses in my neighborhood and there are most likely interested folks coming that will also feel....not included. Hopefully the "leaders" will figure out that it takes much more than cash and an AED to run the intended program. No disrespect because all efforts are necessary for us

[mntlblok]

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

I have all the respect in the world for first responder programs and their volunteers. That stuff is not easy and often not convenient for those doing the work. I presume that EMT programs are a version of that, but am unfamiliar. A two week hospital rotation with a couple of over-nights in an emergency room demonstrated that such things are most definitely not for me. Had an AED in my office for many years and was prepared to use it, but *really* hoped never to need to.

My pondering is about the practicality of this particular type of AED program. I have no problem with rational discussion of such subjects. But, I would be interested in hearing here about those lives saved to date, as well as maybe how specific situations have played out - especially "if ever" over 20 years as has been reported in specific programs. Googling for such information has not yielded much so far.

[mntlblok]

Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.

I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.

I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you

*That's* what I woulda said were I more informed and more articulate. Nurses - of *all* stripes - have long been some of my very favorite folks. They live far closer to "real life" than I'd want to experience on a regular basis. Fun to talk to, highly educated, sharp, and with the thickest skin I ever get to experience. Never knew that LaFortes went higher than 3. :-) Oh, and *always* have a great comeback when asked their favorite bodily fluid.

Have heard an AED "speak" in practice. Knew that the "A" was for "automated" rather than "automatic", but found it interesting that the article I just read kept switching back and forth between the two.

Any thoughts on standing and using one's foot for the compressions? Two fake knees here, too. . .

[Maker]

Corrections for misinformation posted...

The AED program gets many people trained. Volunteers head to the victim first. If someone further away is passing an AED, they grab it and continue on. There is not only one person responding, and wasting time to fetch the AED instead of starting CPR.

Older people can do CPR. Having multiple people to swap is a tremendous help. Having an AED hooked up helps do CPR better. It monitors compression depth and rate, and speaks commands to correct poor form. If I ever need CPR, I would welcome 12 trained retired people coming to help instead of one untrained guy that will tire out after 4 minutes of ineffective CPR learned by watching television.

Survival rates with CPR are not like what television shows. In reality, CPR might lead to a save, and when that happens all the responders are really thrilled that they made a difference that time.

What happens in the real world - before someone reaches an ER doctor - is choreographed chaos. Nobody is perfect and they do the best they can under extremely stressful situations. The goal of CPR is to prolong life sufficiently enough to get the patient to an ER where they have a chance of recovery.

People living across from a fire station should see help arrive within 2 minutes of the 911 call. People 2 miles away should see help arrive within 5 minutes. That is consistently not happening here for some reason. I'd like to know why.
If it takes >4 minutes for CPR to begin, the likelihood of survival is virtually zero. When the FD is taking 5 or 8 or 10 or 15 minutes to arrive, that is why the program is necessary and valuable.

Many of the what-if things posted are covered in training. That's why people get trained - to know what to do. Saving just one human life is worth it.

[Marathon Man]

I have all the respect in the world for first responder programs and their volunteers. That stuff is not easy and often not convenient for those doing the work. I presume that EMT programs are a version of that, but am unfamiliar. A two week hospital rotation with a couple of over-nights in an emergency room demonstrated that such things are most definitely not for me. Had an AED in my office for many years and was prepared to use it, but *really* hoped never to need to.

My pondering is about the practicality of this particular type of AED program. I have no problem with rational discussion of such subjects. But, I would be interested in hearing here about those lives saved to date, as well as maybe how specific situations have played out - especially "if ever" over 20 years as has been reported in specific programs. Googling for such information has not yielded much so far.

I really don't understand your purpose. The neighborhood emergence response program has been in place for quite a while now. You seem to be looking for flaws in it. Why not take the training and get your answers firsthand? You will see for yourself that it is designed, implemented and overseen by the pros.

[mntlblok]

I really don't understand your purpose. The neighborhood emergence response program has been in place for quite a while now. You seem to be looking for flaws in it. Why not take the training and get your answers firsthand? You will see for yourself that it is designed, implemented and overseen by the pros.

"You seem to be looking for flaws in it." Show where I've done that and I'll correct it. I've asked specific questions about neighborhood AED systems. They strike me as being reasonable real world questions. The response programs otherwise sound wonderful.

[asianthree]

So far only once has information posted on how many times AED was used in a neighborhood. Wondering for those who are lead in your neighborhood, do you keep stats on calls, use, and volume of non used pad disposals?

Would be great information for new startups how many AEDs, and actual use, and losses on expired pads and change of batteries.

[Kenswing]

So far only once has information posted on how many times AED was used in a neighborhood. Wondering for those who are lead in your neighborhood, do you keep stats on calls, use, and volume of non used pad disposals?

Would be great information for new startups how many AEDs, and actual use, and losses on expired pads and change of batteries.
Contact Bob Sjogren at VPSD. He compiles the data on AED responses and success rate. Not sure he keeps any information on batteries or pads since that is the responsibility of each Villages program.

Any time an AED is used his group will also query the data from the AED to see how the incident played out.

[neilbcox]

Does anyone know if Pulsepoint covers emergency calls in Lake or Marion counties? I can't find any tracker except for Sumter, and no other app for info.

The new Villages south of 44 are in Lake County but calls are dispatched through the Villages dispatcher.

Pulse Point is used to dispatch each Village responders. It shows a map of the cardiac arrest location and where the closest AED unit is located. All responders are notified within a half mile from the arrest. In Newell all responders will go directly to the home to start CPR while other responders will gather the AED system. Our goal is to be at the arrest site within 3 minutes. Villages response time was 5 1/2 minutes last year but the response time to southern new Villages maybe longer than that.

[neilbcox]

You've said that, multiple times... What proof do you have that causes you to disparage those volunteering for the program?

And each Village IS doing their own thing. That is EXACTLY how the program is being set up... Village by Village...

All new Villages AED groups are not doing their own thing. We develop our AED programs with Villages Fire Safety guidance. They are the experts!

[mntlblok]

Contact Bob Sjogren at VPSD. He compiles the data on AED responses and success rate. Not sure he keeps any information on batteries or pads since that is the responsibility of each Villages program.

Any time an AED is used his group will also query the data from the AED to see how the incident played out.

Did find this. Log into Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/783067868526145/posts/2553979808101600/?paipv=0&eav=Afby6jtTgRi-lPklaDnuxPT0IfRnzbRP6QhrlIR-t6iyKXrRVzl2Vl06UfTjt3lOf10&_rdr)

[PugMom]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.

[TVTVTV]

The new Villages south of 44 are in Lake County but calls are dispatched through the Villages dispatcher.

Pulse Point is used to dispatch each Village responders. It shows a map of the cardiac arrest location and where the closest AED unit is located. All responders are notified within a half mile from the arrest. In Newell all responders will go directly to the home to start CPR while other responders will gather the AED system. Our goal is to be at the arrest site within 3 minutes. Villages response time was 5 1/2 minutes last year but the response time to southern new Villages maybe longer than that.

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't clear enough. In the Pulse Point field to "Add Agency" only 'Sumter Fire and EMS' is available. Nothing shows for Lake or Marion Fire and EMS as a choice. I'm not a trained volunteer or responder, so I don't see a way to view incidents in the other two counties. Similar to the scanner info I used to get before encryption. I was inquiring about getting incident info in the other two TV counties, not response time. And thank you for volunteering!

[Shipping up to Boston]

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.

Much like a DNR, maybe you should hang post it notes in your house stating only Fire/EMS may attempt to save your life. See how that works out. I get your premise, but at times, hero's come in different packages. I just don't see a scenario where someone enters your home from a group that employs volunteers...fully trained and certified personnel and you're gonna say, 'Nah, I'm good'!

[PugMom]

The new Villages south of 44 are in Lake County but calls are dispatched through the Villages dispatcher.

Pulse Point is used to dispatch each Village responders. It shows a map of the cardiac arrest location and where the closest AED unit is located. All responders are notified within a half mile from the arrest. In Newell all responders will go directly to the home to start CPR while other responders will gather the AED system. Our goal is to be at the arrest site within 3 minutes. Villages response time was 5 1/2 minutes last year but the response time to southern new Villages maybe longer than that.

we are south of 44, but in Sumter :ho:

[PugMom]

Much like a DNR, maybe you should hang post it notes in your house stating only Fire/EMS may attempt to save your life. See how that works out. I get your premise, but at times, hero's come in different packages. I just don't see a scenario where someone enters your home from a group that employs volunteers...fully trained and certified personnel and you're gonna say, 'Nah, I'm good'!

i hear you, & do not mean to disrespect anyone attempting to help others, but i still prefer the EMT's. they're professionals. i will see how it works out.

[Kenswing]

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.
If you’re in cardiac arrest you’re pretty much already dead. You’re not going to get any deader by having a trained first responder give you CPR instead of the fire department. What if the station that is so close to you is out on another call? Your chances of survival just went to zero unless someone closer initiates CPR.
Don’t discount your neighborhood’s AED program out of hand. A good many of our responders are retired from the healthcare or public safety sector.
But you certainly have every right not to contribute or participate for whatever reason. We have several in our village with the same stance. It’s okay. We’re going to respond and unless we’re informed that the person is a DNR we’re going to do what we are trained to do.

[CarlR33]

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.
Yep, people don’t stop to think about those that do not want to get a on a “band wagon” and how it makes them feel pressured. I have a no soliciting sign on my door….I don’t need the unnecessary pressure.

[Marathon Man]

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.

How about contributing so that someone else's life can be saved? Oh yea, you don't care.

[charmed59]

My understanding is the trained neighbors will respond to any 911 call. I don’t believe there is a way to opt out. So whether you contributed or not, it will not affect who will respond. If you don’t want anyone other than an EMT to respond you need to have someone with you that will turn them away.

[JMintzer]

All new Villages AED groups are not doing their own thing. We develop our AED programs with Villages Fire Safety guidance. They are the experts!

Yes YOU developed the program... Just like MY village developed OUR program...

All villages develop THEIR OWN program in conjunction with VPSD guidance...

Unless a village "does it's own thing" and initiates the program, it doesn't get done...

[asianthree]

Much like a DNR, maybe you should hang post it notes in your house stating only Fire/EMS may attempt to save your life. See how that works out. I get your premise, but at times, hero's come in different packages. I just don't see a scenario where someone enters your home from a group that employs volunteers...fully trained and certified personnel and you're gonna say, 'Nah, I'm good'!

Nobody in house is calling 911 on DNR until time has passed to ensure no response is used. Yes it happens, one just doesn’t have that knowledge

You can however refuse any personal that arrives.

Then again wouldn’t be the first time spouse hides those wishes, choosing to ignore and calls no matter what paperwork says.

[neilbcox]

i hear you, & do not mean to disrespect anyone attempting to help others, but i still prefer the EMT's. they're professionals. i will see how it works out.

You make a great concern.

In Newell we have evaluated and screened our responders. Most of our responders have extensive medical experience! I am an Army paramedic and level 1 medical specialist, we have a physician, many retired first responders, EMTs, registered nurses, firefighters, police and CERT certified rescuers. Not everyone just walked off the farm and wants to do this.

[Shipping up to Boston]

You make a great concern.

In Newell we have evaluated and screened our responders. Most of our responders have extensive medical experience! I am an Army paramedic and level 1 medical specialist, we have a physician, many retired first responders, EMTs, registered nurses, firefighters, police and CERT certified rescuers. Not everyone just walked off the farm and wants to do this.

You don’t have to justify your existence sir. I’m sure you read the whole thread. The poster has basically said that unless you’re a paid professional.....even if all things beside that are equal, she doesnt want your assistance. Not everything has to make sense on TOTV.
Btw, thank you for your military.....and volunteer public service!

[neilbcox]

Much like a DNR, maybe you should hang post it notes in your house stating only Fire/EMS may attempt to save your life. See how that works out. I get your premise, but at times, hero's come in different packages. I just don't see a scenario where someone enters your home from a group that employs volunteers...fully trained and certified personnel and you're gonna say, 'Nah, I'm good'!

A DNR form on yellow paper must be presented to the Fire Department EMTs and if the paperwork is correct and complete they will respect your request!

The AED responders are not authorized to follow that directive.

Hopes this clarifies the process.

[TrapX]

wow, ok. i am one of those who did not contribute, for my own reasons. if i or someone near me needs lifesaving skills, i want professional emt's. i do not trust anyone to 'work' on me, esp with the fire station so close to the house. i was the black sheep of our block, i guess, because people were coming to the house trying to get me to 'join'. some were offended by me not willing to sign up, but i didn't care then, & still don't today, but the pressure was intense.

I have been trained on CPR and AED use many times through the years. Like many other have.
I performed CPR many times and have had saves as a result.
Have even been publicly recognized for it, although meeting with people I have saved was much more satisfying.

Shame on me for thinking people would want to live.
Shame on me for thinking people would chose to lay there (dead) while I stand by.
I'll wait for minutes to pass, then point the FD to your lifeless body with the message "she didn't want me to do CPR."

Was I an EMT? No, I had a different job.
Could I perform CPR as good as any EMT? Absolutely yes.

So share your address so I don't waste my time in case there is a call at your house.
Hope you know there are often multiple calls simultaneously. The nearest fire station might be out on one of those other calls, and the next nearest response could be 15 minutes away. You would not survive. How would you want that phrased on the tombstone?

[nodlorac]

I made my position known on **************.com several months ago and got hammered for it!!

[yankygrl]

A DNR form on yellow paper must be presented to the Fire Department EMTs and if the paperwork is correct and complete they will respect your request!

The AED responders are not authorized to follow that directive.

Hopes this clarifies the process.
yes they are- if you have a correctly filling out yellow DNR AED responders will not perform CPR

[mntlblok]

yes they are- if you have a correctly filling out yellow DNR AED responders will not perform CPR

Trying to picture a situation in which a human would be found unresponsive, not obviously choking, not breathing, and with no detectable pulse and a family member prepared to abide by the DNR request but who would both call 911 *and* present said DNR request in writing. (Unfamiliar with it having that yellow paper aspect to it). Possibly my imagination just isn't good enough.

Just discussed it with the wifey and it turned into a pondering bout over who could be called *other* than 911. Would seem a waste of emergency personnel's time. An ambulance ride would hardly seem appropriate, but who knows? Maybe there's rules; possibly even laws. Maybe insurance won't cover transport without said 911 call. Just don't know. I suppose DOA implies some sort of "arrival". Knowing of and intending to abide by a DNR, should one await the attainment of room temperature? We both feel strongly about erring on the side of avoiding living with brain damage.

Don't really know much about coroners vs. medical examiners and timely declarations of death. Did just find this listing:

Barbara C. Wolf, M.D.
809 Pine Street
Leesburg, Florida 34748
Director of Operations Lindsey Bayer
(352) 326-5961
FAX: (352) 365-6438
e-mail: Lindsey.Bayer@marioncounty fl.org

This URL says something about a 24 hour response. Within? Not clear. https://www.countyoffice.org/sumter-county-medical-examiner-coroner-leesburg-fl-41f/

[Dusty_Star]

Just discussed it with the wifey and it turned into a pondering bout over who could be called *other* than 911. Would seem a waste of emergency personnel's time. An ambulance ride would hardly seem appropriate, but who knows? Maybe there's rules; possibly even laws. Maybe insurance won't cover transport without said 911 call. Just don't know. I suppose DOA implies some sort of "arrival". Knowing of and intending to abide by a DNR, should one await the attainment of room temperature? We both feel strongly about erring on the side of avoiding living with brain damage.



Good questions. I found this:

"What should I do after a death at home?


First, call the person’s doctor or palliative care team. You can ask them to arrange for a doctor to:

visit to confirm the person’s death
issue a medical certificate of cause of death
If the person’s death is expected and natural, you don’t have to call a doctor right away. If they die during the night you can wait until the morning before calling a doctor.

If there is no doctor available, call the police."

Hopefully people with more knowledge will let us know the answer to: Who do you call?

[neilbcox]

yes they are- if you have a correctly filling out yellow DNR AED responders will not perform CPR

Why would someone that plans to hand out a DNR EVER call 911 if they are going to refuse medical help. This call out may kill someone who really needs assistance! They should be charged with the call out!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

///

didn't realize this was already discussed in the next page.

[Shipping up to Boston]

///

didn't realize this was already discussed in the next page.

You will learn rather quickly if you blow thru a DNR stop sign and get pulled over by Attorney Johnnie Cochran from beyond the grave...serving you a court summons! I believe not honoring a known DNR may jeopardize your Good Samaritan Law protections but as always, stand to be corrected

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You will learn rather quickly if you blow thru a DNR stop sign and get pulled over by Attorney Johnnie Cochran from beyond the grave...serving you a court summons! I believe not honoring a known DNR may jeopardize your Good Samaritan Law protections but as always, stand to be corrected

I guess - how I perceive the situation: once you declare yourself (or are declared by your neighborhood) to be an official responder and authorized to use that AED machine, you become obligated to honor DNRs. Which means it's your job (even if you're a volunteer) to know whether or not the patient HAS a DNR. If they do, and you ignore it, and use the AED and the person ends up in a coma that sets their family back for months until the patient finally dies, you could be on the hook financially. And legally.

DNRs in the state of Florida are supposed to be honored, as long as they're filled out correctly (and on yellow paper).

I posted (and deleted because I didn't notice this thread was 10 pages long), I'm CPR and AED trained. But I don't know if I'd be able to accept the responsibility of being authorized on any official basis to use those skills.

If I was just a bystander who found someone unresponsive on their lawn, then I might administer CPR and yell for help. Because I wouldn't be under any obligation, as a passerby (a Samaritan) to check for a DNR.

Someone who is authorized to represent themselves as a first responder - is obligated to check, and obligated to honor the DNR if they find one.

[neilbcox]

yes they are- if you have a correctly filling out yellow DNR AED responders will not perform CPR

My error…all responders must honor the DNR.

[Marathon Man]

My error…all responders must honor the DNR.

Are you sure about that?

[mntlblok]

Good questions. I found this:

"What should I do after a death at home?


First, call the person’s doctor or palliative care team. You can ask them to arrange for a doctor to:

visit to confirm the person’s death
issue a medical certificate of cause of death
If the person’s death is expected and natural, you don’t have to call a doctor right away. If they die during the night you can wait until the morning before calling a doctor.

If there is no doctor available, call the police."

Hopefully people with more knowledge will let us know the answer to: Who do you call?

Thank you. Didn't see a source so I googled it. Ran across this side issue:

"The person who is dying may have already said that he or she would like to be an organ donor. Some States list this information on the driver’s license. If not, the decision has to be made quickly. There is no cost to the donor’s family for this gift of life. If the person has requested a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order but wants to donate organs, he or she might have to indicate that the desire to donate supersedes the DNR. That is because it might be necessary to use machines to keep the heart beating until the medical staff is ready to remove the donated organs." at What To Do After Someone Dies | National Institute on Aging (https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/grief-and-mourning/what-do-after-someone-dies)

I guess I've always pictured my organs as only being of any donation value following some sort of traumatic event. And, I'd think artificially keeping a heart (for example) beating that is going to be removed soon might carry a title (and intent) other than "resuscitation".

Also saw this there: "You can also consider a home funeral, which is legal in most states." I think it would be cool to do sort of a "burial at sea" and not let what's left go to waste. Reckon that's legal, too?

[dgoodman]

An AED program can be done at no charge as it has been done in my Village of Buttonwood. Sumter County has a free AED program that will provide AED's, install AED cabinets and provide the emergency calling system to alert trained responders of AED emergencies. Contact Sumter County at (352)689-4400 and ask about the PulsePoint.

[asianthree]

I have been trained on CPR and AED use many times through the years. Like many other have.
I performed CPR many times and have had saves as a result.
Have even been publicly recognized for it, although meeting with people I have saved was much more satisfying.

Shame on me for thinking people would want to live.
Shame on me for thinking people would chose to lay there (dead) while I stand by.
I'll wait for minutes to pass, then point the FD to your lifeless body with the message "she didn't want me to do CPR."

Was I an EMT? No, I had a different job.
Could I perform CPR as good as any EMT? Absolutely yes.

So share your address so I don't waste my time in case there is a call at your house.
Hope you know there are often multiple calls simultaneously. The nearest fire station might be out on one of those other calls, and the next nearest response could be 15 minutes away. You would not survive. How would you want that phrased on the tombstone?

Why are you so angry if someone chooses not to use you. Does it affect you if they don't use you, does it change your performance review, or don’t sleep well if the person chooses not to use you.

Sorry after 45 plus years in OR, not at any time was A YOU involved. We were a group of many, never did one person get in a snit if resuscitation was turned down by a family member (cause the one on the floor isn’t making any decisions, if they can talk they don’t need you)

It’s interesting you alone saved so many people without any assistance. I stopped counting at 100 events, but not at any time could I take credit for being the lone person who saved anyone.

But in return none of us were the sole reason why we called for a time of death. Although if it was an infant, child or young person, all involved attending end result meeting, could have input if something could have changed the outcome.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Why are you so angry if someone chooses not to use you. Does it affect you if they don't use you, does it change your performance review, or don’t sleep well if the person chooses not to use you.

Sorry after 45 plus years in OR, not at any time was A YOU involved. We were a group of many, never did one person get in a snit if resuscitation was turned down by a family member (cause the one on the floor isn’t making any decisions, if they can talk they don’t need you)

It’s interesting you alone saved so many people without any assistance. I stopped counting at 100 events, but not at any time could I take credit for being the lone person who saved anyone.

But in return none of us were the sole reason why we called for a time of death. Although if it was an infant, child or young person, all involved attending end result meeting, could have input if something could have changed the outcome.

Not defending the post in question nor challenging yours....however, the post in question was an individual stating that if all things are equal (ie; same training, certification etc) but, one is a paid professional and one is a volunteer, some whom are/were Army medics, EMTs, FF, nurses....she said she would decline services. The DNR was added by the rest of us in the scenario in that the yellow paper needs to be present. That’s insulting and as an OR professional, if you were on that volunteer team and were told that....because you’re an unpaid volunteer....no thanks....you’d be insulted as well. Again, she never brought up a DNR....just the paid/unpaid take...

[neilbcox]

An AED program can be done at no charge as it has been done in my Village of Buttonwood. Sumter County has a free AED program that will provide AED's, install AED cabinets and provide the emergency calling system to alert trained responders of AED emergencies. Contact Sumter County at (352)689-4400 and ask about the PulsePoint.

Pulse point is the application used for notification of responders. Every AED program uses this application which is given free to them.

No such thing as free AED units! Buttonwood was installed about 15 years ago. They raised contributions from residents to fund this program. They may not have any reason or need to raise anymore funds.

[Kenswing]

Pulse point is the application used for notification of responders. Every AED program uses this application which is given free to them.

No such thing as free AED units! Buttonwood was installed about 15 years ago. They raised contributions from residents to fund this program. They may not have any reason or need to raise anymore funds.
Not true. Several villages use Ready Alert for their notifications.

[thelegges]

Xxxx

[mntlblok]

Not true. Several villages use Ready Alert for their notifications.

That sent me googling. Interesting. https://www.**************.com/2021/05/08/software-glitch-blamed-for-halting-alerts-to-aed-responders-in-the-villages/

[Bogie Shooter]

Xxxx

Does this mean the same as ////?

[asianthree]

Not defending the post in question nor challenging yours....however, the post in question was an individual stating that if all things are equal (ie; same training, certification etc) but, one is a paid professional and one is a volunteer, some whom are/were Army medics, EMTs, FF, nurses....she said she would decline services. The DNR was added by the rest of us in the scenario in that the yellow paper needs to be present. That’s insulting and as an OR professional, if you were on that volunteer team and were told that....because you’re an unpaid volunteer....no thanks....you’d be insulted as well. Again, she never brought up a DNR....just the paid/unpaid take...

You are very mistaken on how most professionals would feel.
First professionals are taught to respect the voice in the room. Even if you think it’s right or wrong you are taught never to overstep your bounds to respect their wishes and do as they ask. If there is no voice in the room you do everything you can to save that human.

It is not about you. It is about that family member who is making decisions since the person laying on the floor doesn’t have a voice. Outside of the hospital and inside. I have seen more than once that a DNR paperwork can be stuffed in a pocket while family members plead with you to save the life, or ask that you step back.

As a professional, I personally involved in CPR on more than 10 occasions alone, outside of A facility. I have also been asked more than five times to step back and not perform CPR.

If you are going into a home or a public area you identify yourself then respect the wishes of the person who is either asking for help or asking you not to help.

It is not in your teaching, to question, burden, or make them feel guilty of their wishes. After all, you are not walking in their shoes. I have personally witnessed within family members that CPR not be started. You have no idea the reason, however background one can guess.

Sometime that 911 call and refusal to first volunteer is allowing more time before first responders arrive. That spouse may have wanted to let them go, but it’s a hard decision to make, being alone with your loved one. By waiting for EMS you are not alone, yet time is making decisions for you.

My best friend ED physician age 27 with stage four Mets stopped breathing while I was at his house. Both his parents were MDAs. It was in my brain to start CPR, and I approached, his spouse said NO. It’s hard to do, when it’s a friend but I had to respect wishes. I knew it was the right decision, but my heart had different ideas.

The one memory that sticks in my mind is at a resort Hotel 3yo was found face in the pool. We were 11 anesthesiologist and anesthetist who were just few feet away.
The father refused us to help, picked up his child ran past us, the lifeguards, into the lobby.
We as professionals went into the lobby again said you have doctors available. Please let us help. The father refused. Was it hard, sure but again you have to respect the person with the voice.

Am I insulted, when someone refuses CPR in a public setting. NOT even once.

I sleep well at night knowing I asked and was answered, by the voice of that spouse, family member, who wants to wait for EMS. Then it’s up to you to offer support and kindness to that voice, and definitely not make them suffer anymore than they already are.

So again no I am not in anyway made to feel angry, hurt feels or insulted to the word NO

[neilbcox]

Not true. Several villages use Ready Alert for their notifications.

The Villages Fire Safety Department along with Sumpter County fully support Pulse Point.

[Kenswing]

The Villages Fire Safety Department along with Sumpter County fully support Pulse Point.

That's well and good. I wasn't comparing them. I was just correcting an incorrect statement. Not EVERY program uses Pulse Point.

[Shipping up to Boston]

You are very mistaken on how most professionals would feel.
First professionals are taught to respect the voice in the room. Even if you think it’s right or wrong you are taught never to overstep your bounds to respect their wishes and do as they ask. If there is no voice in the room you do everything you can to save that human.

It is not about you. It is about that family member who is making decisions since the person laying on the floor doesn’t have a voice. Outside of the hospital and inside. I have seen more than once that a DNR paperwork can be stuffed in a pocket while family members plead with you to save the life, or ask that you step back.

As a professional, I personally involved in CPR on more than 10 occasions alone, outside of A facility. I have also been asked more than five times to step back and not perform CPR.

If you are going into a home or a public area you identify yourself then respect the wishes of the person who is either asking for help or asking you not to help.

It is not in your teaching, to question, burden, or make them feel guilty of their wishes. After all, you are not walking in their shoes. I have personally witnessed within family members that CPR not be started. You have no idea the reason, however background one can guess.

Sometime that 911 call and refusal to first volunteer is allowing more time before first responders arrive. That spouse may have wanted to let them go, but it’s a hard decision to make, being alone with your loved one. By waiting for EMS you are not alone, yet time is making decisions for you.

My best friend ED physician age 27 with stage four Mets stopped breathing while I was at his house. Both his parents were MDAs. It was in my brain to start CPR, and I approached, his spouse said NO. It’s hard to do, when it’s a friend but I had to respect wishes. I knew it was the right decision, but my heart had different ideas.

The one memory that sticks in my mind is at a resort Hotel 3yo was found face in the pool. We were 11 anesthesiologist and anesthetist who were just few feet away.
The father refused us to help, picked up his child ran past us, the lifeguards, into the lobby.
We as professionals went into the lobby again said you have doctors available. Please let us help. The father refused. Was it hard, sure but again you have to respect the person with the voice.

Am I insulted, when someone refuses CPR in a public setting. NOT even once.

I sleep well at night knowing I asked and was answered, by the voice of that spouse, family member, who wants to wait for EMS. Then it’s up to you to offer support and kindness to that voice, and definitely not make them suffer anymore than they already are.

So again no I am not in anyway made to feel angry, hurt feels or insulted to the word NO

I'm not going to challenge you or compare resumes. You don't know me and I dont know you. You missed the point. This is a forum...we're not in the theater of our professions on TOTV. The poster said.....and my point in challenging ...is that if all things are equal (please assume there is no DNR in place because she never mentioned one) she would refuse the services of unpaid professionals or volunteers. Even with the same resume and background that someone like yourself posts often. Obviously those wishes would be respected but the premise of paid vs unpaid is ridiculous. Again, we're not in the theater of our work....just the theater of the absurd.

[asianthree]

I'm not going to challenge you or compare resumes. You don't know me and I dont know you. You missed the point. This is a forum...we're not in the theater of our professions on TOTV. The poster said.....and my point in challenging ...is that if all things are equal (please assume there is no DNR in place because she never mentioned one) she would refuse the services of unpaid professionals or volunteers. Even with the same resume and background that someone like yourself posts often. Obviously those wishes would be respected but the premise of paid vs unpaid is ridiculous. Again, we're not in the theater of our work....just the theater of the absurd.

Your post is I would be insulted if I was told they wanted to wait for EMS. My answer is still no, not in the least. If they asked me to leave I would, if they asked to sit and wait with them I would. Either way still wouldn’t be insulted. Most volunteers don’t need an ego trip, that I am as good as any _____________
It goes along the line if you are a male volunteer and the female is on the ground, you are asked to step back. One would never be insulted.

Why does bother some is first volunteer can’t get on their knees to do a assessment that is a disservice to the program.

[JMintzer]

Your post is I would be insulted if I was told they wanted to wait for EMS. My answer is still no, not in the least. If they asked me to leave I would, if they asked to sit and wait with them I would. Either way still wouldn’t be insulted. Most volunteers don’t need an ego trip, that I am as good as any _____________
It goes along the line if you are a male volunteer and the female is on the ground, you are asked to step back. One would never be insulted.

Why does bother some is first volunteer can’t get on their knees to do a assessment that is a disservice to the program.

Why are you changing the parameters?

No one mentioned someone who is "physically unable" to assist.

If someone can't "get on their knees" to do an assessment, they shouldn't be a volunteer in the program. Period...

The same applies if someone is unable to perform CPR...

[thelegges]

Why are you changing the parameters?

No one mentioned someone who is "physically unable" to assist.

If someone can't "get on their knees" to do an assessment, they shouldn't be a volunteer in the program. Period...

The same applies if someone is unable to perform CPR...

I agree, but have you had an event at your house? In older neighborhood our friends at our house had 3 events. Two different events with two different people, arrived the volunteer was unable to physically help.

Should they be removed from the roster? Probably, but sometimes the lead has difficulty with that process. Friends were later informed that that volunteer could still offer comfort, until other help arrived. Bonus for our friends was first responders were at the house before AED group.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I had a further dialogue with the poster but unfortunately that post magically disappeared from the thread. That said, it’s commonplace on TOTV for some to change narratives midway through a thread....especially when you can’t stay on point and can’t concede. Also, why is it that some here, regardless of thread topic ....always have to post their resumes and scrapbooks as a way to somehow dismiss a competing argument. There are times when it’s welcomed on other threads and organic in its presentation. On this one it’s highly pretentious.

[Dkassak]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired


Because you have posted incorrect information, I will reply. There are 23 AED’s going in Newell. We are asking each household to donate $100. The fund raising committee does not nor ever has gone door-to-door. Some residents have spoken to their neighbors. People feel passionate.
We also have not pressured, shamed or any other improper behavior.
I cannot speak for other residents that may feel passionate, but we don’t condone aggressive behavior. We are not putting people against each other. If you don’t want to participate, don’t.
But also please don’t disparage the hard working people that are trying to get this important program up and running.