AED Collection Guilt

[TVTVTV]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

[Shipping up to Boston]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

It appears Zone 6 may have slower than expected response times! ;)

Not on FB but would think if gossip was the concern, why feed into it and blast your frustration on a medium (TOTV) with 100K subscribers? Don’t let that bad guys win!

[Bill14564]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

That certainly would have an impact on my willingness to donate.

[Two Bills]

Seeing something like those figures being bandied about, I would refuse to contribute on principal.
Shame posting is the bane of social media.

[Kenswing]

So you’re shaming the shamers? :1rotfl:

[rustyp]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

I say this chart backfires. Reading the data it reveals much less than 50% of the entire village of St Johns is not willing to donate. Thus I would not feel shamed about not donating. Besides how would a neighbor know if I have a DNR ?

[Shipping up to Boston]

I say this chart backfires. Reading the data it reveals much less than 50% of the entire village of St Johns is not willing to donate. Thus I would not feel shamed about not donating. Besides how would a neighbor know if I have a DNR ?

I just think it’s funny...neighbors walking out the door looking at each other like “I wonder if she did....bet he didn’t...”. The more I look at the chart the more I think the point of it is the overall popularity and acceptance of the program. Like previous poster stated, it’s close to 50%. Plus it’s only by neighborhoods and streets within....no names. Sounds like the organizers are just taking a victory lap that they got to that threshold. Of course on this forum, I’m not surprised by the victim mentality....TOTV paranoia!

[Stu from NYC]

It was done in our neighborhood in a much nicer way and we reached our goal

[billethkid]

Curse of the day?
Cowards behind keyboards creating chaos with no validation or verification that is then taken as gospel by way too many sheeple!

[JMintzer]

I just think it’s funny...neighbors walking out the door looking at each other like “I wonder if she did....bet he didn’t...”. The more I look at the chart the more I think the point of it is the overall popularity and acceptance of the program. Like previous poster stated, it’s close to 50%. Plus it’s only by neighborhoods and streets within....no names. Sounds like the organizers are just taking a victory lap that they got to that threshold. Of course on this forum, I’m not surprised by the victim mentality....TOTV paranoia!

I would think most neighborhoods have no more than a 50% participation rate... (no facts to back up that opinion...)

And I'm sure everyone walks around, all day, thinking "I wonder if those people paid?"

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2zbluIBGu1qdm8qco1_400.gif

[Shipping up to Boston]

I would think most neighborhoods have no more than a 50% participation rate... (no facts to back up that opinion...)

And I'm sure everyone walks around, all day, thinking "I wonder if those people paid?"

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2zbluIBGu1qdm8qco1_400.gif

There are cities and towns in New England where some reside on private ways. They pay same taxes etc....yet if they need their street resurfaced, they need a majority of the neighbors to sign a petition as well as pay the equal amount for the cost of the work. It’s not mandatory, just the majority. That creates animosity and division in a neighborhood. This is tame in comparison

[JMintzer]

There are cities and towns in New England where some reside on private ways. They pay same taxes etc....yet if they need their street resurfaced, they need a majority of the neighbors to sign a petition as well as pay the equal amount for the cost of the work. It’s not mandatory, just the majority. That creates animosity and division in a neighborhood. This is tame in comparison

In that case, the info is public, so I can see that happening...

I've not heard of any neighborhood publishing a list of names for the AED programs...

Our neighborhood has a yearly dance to support the program.

We've not been in TV when they have the dance. But at an earlier monthly event, they were selling tickets to the dance. At check in for the event, I was asked if I wanted to buy tickets. I asked "How much?" I think it was $20 per person. I gave them a $50. They were about to give me change and I told them we wouldn't be there, to just use the money for the program.

They were a bit surprised, but thanked me and told me they hoped we could make the next one...

I think it's an important program. I hope I never need it, but I do plan to become a volunteer when I become a Frog, as I've been certified on both CPR and AED forever...

[Shipping up to Boston]

In that case, the info is public, so I can see that happening...

I've not heard of any neighborhood publishing a list of names for the AED programs...

Our neighborhood has a yearly dance to support the program.

We've not been in TV when they have the dance. But at an earlier monthly event, they were selling tickets to the dance. At check in for the event, I was asked if I wanted to buy tickets. I asked "How much?" I think it was $20 per person. I gave them a $50. They were about to give me change and I told them we wouldn't be there, to just use the money for the program.

They were a bit surprised, but thanked me and told me they hoped we could make the next one...

I think it's an important program. I hope I never need it, but I do plan to become a volunteer when I become a Frog, as I've been certified on both CPR and AED forever...

Wait...I thought I read the chart, it was streets only , right? They released names?

[JMintzer]

Wait...I thought I read the chart, it was streets only , right? They released names?

No, no, no.. I was replying to the "Petition" you mention...

You must actually sign your name, so that info is public...

[Velvet]

I think trying to “shame” people into doing anything is pretty low. I wouldn’t do that to our lovely street. It would definitely divide our community. Even those who planned to give, wouldn’t.

[Shipping up to Boston]

No, no, no.. I was replying to the "Petition" you mention...

You must actually sign your name, so that info is public...

Got it!

[Shipping up to Boston]

I think trying to “shame” people into doing anything is pretty low. I wouldn’t do that to our lovely street. It would definitely divide our community. Even those who planned to give, wouldn’t.

Remind me to buy a dozen boxes of Girl Scout cookies next time they pass thru! ;)

[rustyp]

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

[Bogie Shooter]

Our village sent out an email suggesting what dollar amount was being requested per residence . There was a drop off box where a check could be placed. All was private. No one knew what percent actually participated or for that matter a need to know. We have the program and maintenance funds are solicited the same way.

Personally I think going door to door asking is intimidating.

[Smalley]

The average rate of donation for the AED program is 70%;

[Velvet]

Our village sent out an email suggesting what dollar amount was being requested per residence . There was a drop off box where a check could be placed. All was private. No one knew what percent actually participated or for that matter a need to know. We have the program and maintenance funds are solicited the same way.

Personally I think going door to door asking is intimidating.

That is a classy way to do it.

[mikeycereal]

My door was knocked at 2x for this. Nice ladies. Although it sounds like a good idea I just don't want to throw out $100... especially after paying the latest property tax bill. Yeesh! There is some guilt, yes... but 44% means I'm not the only one. Sorry ladies I just can't. Not everyone in the villages is rich. :shrug:

[NoMo50]

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

We have an AED program in our neighborhood. A huge part of the program is having neighbors trained as responders. That training is centered on CPR, but also includes AED usage. If 6 minutes is an average, then obviously there are response times greater than that. We have had several call-outs for actual cardiac events since our program was initiated, and never once have the paramedics gotten to the scene before the neighborhood responders. I am very thankful to live in a Village with neighbors who care about each other.

[NoMo50]

The average rate of donation for the AED program is 70%;

While that may be statistically true (it is a figure touted by VPSD), it is really not meaningful. There are many "AED Neighborhood Groups" that are comprised of a single street, or an otherwise small number of homes. In some of those tiny groups, the participation rate is at or near 100%. If you are talking about implementing a program within an entire Village, participation rates that high are unrealistic. The AED program in our Village attained a donation rate just over 50%, which we felt was excellent. We reached the monetary goal, and fully implemented the program.

[Shipping up to Boston]

We have an AED program in our neighborhood. A huge part of the program is having neighbors trained as responders. That training is centered on CPR, but also includes AED usage. If 6 minutes is an average, then obviously there are response times greater than that. We have had several call-outs for actual cardiac events since our program was initiated, and never once have the paramedics gotten to the scene before the neighborhood responders. I am very thankful to live in a Village with neighbors who care about each other.

Your not gonna sway many on here. This topic has been out there for weeks. Obviously the ones that paid attention and did due diligence reading the threads...agree that it’s CPR first and foremost. Training and certification is usually for both.....so one would know that. I know of no one that has just AED certs. I haven’t called out one single poster about contributing or not to this program....only of it’s importance in TV and it’s supplemental value to uniformed first responders. Btw, not once in these threads existence has anybody asked a member of public safety (ie; police, FF or EMT) if they value the assist that these groups provide on occasion. I already know that answer. So once again, whether you contribute, don’t contribute or are neutral on this one....either way, someone....paid or unpaid, has you and your family’s back.

[talonip]

Summary of Requirements
No legislation is currently in place for Florida. Anyone that obtains an Automated External Defibrillator (AED) is required to complete a course in cardiopulmonary resuscitation, successfully complete basic first aid training, and demonstrate proficient use of an AED.

Ok so do we have people qualified? What if we do and they are out for dinner at sumter landing or up north. Then what?
Does somebody have to be on call 24 hours?

[Girlcopper]

I think trying to “shame” people into doing anything is pretty low. I wouldn’t do that to our lovely street. It would definitely divide our community. Even those who planned to give, wouldn’t.
Who cares what others do??? If you want to give…give. If not…don’t. Why would it divide the street?? Would you stop talking to someone who didn’t donate?? If you do and others do well, That’s the problem.

[MandoMan]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

I know of two AEDs on my block, but I consider them irrelevant. I live alone. My door is locked. I don’t know who in the neighborhood knows how to use these. They may be shopping or golfing or taking a shower when I need them. If my heart stops, I can’t even call 911. If I thought I was having a heart attack and called 911, could I get the door unlocked or would it have to be broken down? Certainly most people having a heart attack do not need defibrillating. Defibrillating someone whose heart is actually beating is not a good idea, and when you are an old person who has just run a block carrying an AED, you may not be in a position to tell if there is a pulse. It’s not always easy! And then if my heart is restarted, how long did it not beat? The majority of people whose hearts are restarted suffer some level of brain damage. Do I want that, or would I rather be dead? Success with defibrillators is often based on leaving the hospital alive or surviving thirty days, even if the person will never leave a nursing home. I’d rather die.

[MartyW]

Our neighborhood is blessed. We have 30 something members of the team. Of course all of them won’t be near by when the response text comes, but hopefully enough. We have 3 devices posted in different parts of the neighborhood. If you are close to one, you get it. Everyone else responds to the location. Including those trained in CPR. Some folks will do crowd control and keep the street open for first responders, some help control pets, one will work with family members to grab the medical records and meds. Some move furniture to make room for gurney. But most importantly, are those working the unresponsive person with the AED and CPR. So, the CPR does happen in our area, but the AED is a tool that we wouldn’t have without our program. When I arrrived in TV last summer, our welcome wagon folks came by and among the gifts they brought was information on the program, the medical emergency forms kept on the fridge and a form explaining the program and requesting a donation. From that point, they continue with fundraisers vs direct donations. My personal favorite is a night golf scramble. I’ve participated twice since we arrived. Lots of fun and no pressure. Great volunteers give their time to keep it all organized. In a community with our average age (not that you need to be old to need it) we are indeed blessed..

[retiredguy123]

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on these AED programs, and how many times have the units been used. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

[kendi]

There has been recent discussions about Villages AED programs; pros and cons, why some choose to give and reasons some don't.

However, on a Village FB post today this "chart of guilt" was posted for the neighborhood to gossip about. WOW. Unbelievable that specific streets and percentages are posted. It's not (or shouldn't be) everyone's business. Way to go - very unprofessional and great for neighborhood comraderie.

They posted the facts. Some simply choose to see them as such. Others choose to put a negative twist on it. Some choose to think without judgement that people have there reasons for donating or not. And some use it as an incentive to donate. And I’m sure there are other interpretations that don’t involve a shaming mindset.

[Sandy and Ed]

I don’t think that “standing on principle” would be a valid excuse for not laying out the mere price of dinner on an annual basis to fund AED for a neighborhood. I’m sure nobody will be checking a donor list come time to pull out the AED in an emergency. If someone has a legitimate economic reason not to contribute their share then obviously a token donation would suffice. This is a self serving cause that it does not pay to be cheap supporting

[Velvet]

They posted the facts. Some simply choose to see them as such. Others choose to put a negative twist on it. Some choose to think without judgement that people have there reasons for donating or not. And some use it as an incentive to donate. And I’m sure there are other interpretations that don’t involve a shaming mindset.

Have they asked for permission from the people involved “to post the facts”? If they have and the majority agreed, I’m for it. Otherwise, I see it as invasion of privacy. It is not that I haven’t paid for AEDs myself or that I don’t support the efforts of people who volunteer, I fully appreciate that. What I don’t like is the lack of sensitivity about trying to raise funds. It is natural to turn on someone who is trying to push you.

[Sandy and Ed]

In that case, the info is public, so I can see that happening...

I've not heard of any neighborhood publishing a list of names for the AED programs...

Our neighborhood has a yearly dance to support the program.

We've not been in TV when they have the dance. But at an earlier monthly event, they were selling tickets to the dance. At check in for the event, I was asked if I wanted to buy tickets. I asked "How much?" I think it was $20 per person. I gave them a $50. They were about to give me change and I told them we wouldn't be there, to just use the money for the program.

They were a bit surprised, but thanked me and told me they hoped we could make the next one...

I think it's an important program. I hope I never need it, but I do plan to become a volunteer when I become a Frog, as I've been certified on both CPR and AED forever...
You….are a CLASS act!! Good for you and your attitude. We should be neighbors helping neighbors and the AED program is a perfect example of this in action.

[Sandy and Ed]

Our village sent out an email suggesting what dollar amount was being requested per residence . There was a drop off box where a check could be placed. All was private. No one knew what percent actually participated or for that matter a need to know. We have the program and maintenance funds are solicited the same way.

Personally I think going door to door asking is intimidating.
Nothing wrong with that. Shame on those that don’t want to contribute anything, however

[Donnahamilton999]

Sometimes people just need a gentle reminder we are all busy. I did get a reminder and I paid it right away. I just got busy maybe a second letter needs to be sent out.

[Pennyt]

I was a volunteer in our neighborhood's initial AED program. Here's how it works, as I remember: there are a group of people who volunteer for the program. They are given CPR and AED training and a box is installed in a central location in the neighborhood. When a resident calls 911, an automatic call goes out to the resident group of volunteers. One person is assigned to go to the AED box while the others go directly to the patient and check to see if CPR is needed. If so, they begin the process. There is not just one person who is called to respond, so if someone isn't available, others are there to respond. It has been shown that neighborhoods with this program have a higher survival rate for heart attacks than those without one. (If you're going to have a heart attack, it would be to your benefit to have it in The Villages. That's according to a yearlong study done by The Villages Daily Sun, in which they found that The Villages residents are four times more likely than other Americans to survive a cardiac event. This is due to a number of factors including the amount of AED's available throughout the community, the proximity of fire department to resident's homes, and more. – The Villages Daily Sun)

[GoneFishing]

When I was asked to donate I didn’t hesitate for one minute. My thoughts were if it saves one life then it is money well spent. In our group no pressure was put on anyone. I’m very happy that we have those that want to participate in this program. I also understand that not everyone can afford to participate. I’ve not seen or heard of ill will towards those folks.

[Bogie Shooter]

Nothing wrong with that. Shame on those that don’t want to contribute anything, however

Shame? Assumption, it was not known who or how much was contributed.

[Maker]

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

The medical world says for having a likely survival, the accepted maximum time delay before beginning CPR is 4 minutes. Beyond that, the chances go from low, to extremely rare plus having serious long term injury.
The numbers I have seen shows it is at least 6 minutes, and usually longer.

So having a community of people trained in CPR, all heading your way to fill the gap in time before the paramedics arrive, is going to make outcomes better. No question.
Having an AED also aids in monitoring the CPR process and issues voice directions to improve technique (rate and compression). It can also administer a shock if needed.

Now the paramedics arrive. I would welcome the paramedics to concentrate on doing advanced life support - administering drugs, oxygen, assessing for other treatments they can provide... instead of doing CPR themselves. Performing CPR is very tiring. Having many to share the work is the best way.

The overall goal is to increase the odds of survival, with the lowest amount of complications possible. The AED program does that.

[Maker]

I know of two AEDs on my block, but I consider them irrelevant. I live alone. My door is locked. I don’t know who in the neighborhood knows how to use these. They may be shopping or golfing or taking a shower when I need them. If my heart stops, I can’t even call 911. If I thought I was having a heart attack and called 911, could I get the door unlocked or would it have to be broken down? Certainly most people having a heart attack do not need defibrillating. Defibrillating someone whose heart is actually beating is not a good idea, and when you are an old person who has just run a block carrying an AED, you may not be in a position to tell if there is a pulse. It’s not always easy! And then if my heart is restarted, how long did it not beat? The majority of people whose hearts are restarted suffer some level of brain damage. Do I want that, or would I rather be dead? Success with defibrillators is often based on leaving the hospital alive or surviving thirty days, even if the person will never leave a nursing home. I’d rather die.

Locked alone in your house means you will not survive. That's the reality of that situation.
but
What if you are visiting with neighbors, or are outside doing things like trimming flowers, or chatting with people? Maybe they would be able to call 911 and start to render aid immediately. Someone can be kept alive with CPR, and viable for a full recovery, even if their heart cannot be restarted for tens of minutes. It's about keeping the oxygen moving to the brain.

You really should learn about how AEDs work. They are computers and monitor the heart. They direct a person to do CPR better. They analyze the heart and will order people to stand clear to deliver a shock ONLY when it's REQUIRED.
If a responder cannot correctly tell if there is a pulse, the AED can. AED will say "begin CPR". Plain and simple, it's the expert tool helping people do things right.

Having someone there right away improves your chance of survival without complications. Brain injury happens when too much time passes between the heart attack, and getting blood moving again. That's 4 minutes max. Waiting for an ambulance to arrive means likely your fears will happen. I'd take the nearby volunteers with an AED every time.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I know of two AEDs on my block, but I consider them irrelevant. I live alone. My door is locked. I don’t know who in the neighborhood knows how to use these. They may be shopping or golfing or taking a shower when I need them. If my heart stops, I can’t even call 911. If I thought I was having a heart attack and called 911, could I get the door unlocked or would it have to be broken down? Certainly most people having a heart attack do not need defibrillating. Defibrillating someone whose heart is actually beating is not a good idea, and when you are an old person who has just run a block carrying an AED, you may not be in a position to tell if there is a pulse. It’s not always easy! And then if my heart is restarted, how long did it not beat? The majority of people whose hearts are restarted suffer some level of brain damage. Do I want that, or would I rather be dead? Success with defibrillators is often based on leaving the hospital alive or surviving thirty days, even if the person will never leave a nursing home. I’d rather die.

Thoughts and prayers!

[Velvet]

I know of two AEDs on my block, but I consider them irrelevant. I live alone. My door is locked. I don’t know who in the neighborhood knows how to use these. They may be shopping or golfing or taking a shower when I need them. If my heart stops, I can’t even call 911. If I thought I was having a heart attack and called 911, could I get the door unlocked or would it have to be broken down? Certainly most people having a heart attack do not need defibrillating. Defibrillating someone whose heart is actually beating is not a good idea, and when you are an old person who has just run a block carrying an AED, you may not be in a position to tell if there is a pulse. It’s not always easy! And then if my heart is restarted, how long did it not beat? The majority of people whose hearts are restarted suffer some level of brain damage. Do I want that, or would I rather be dead? Success with defibrillators is often based on leaving the hospital alive or surviving thirty days, even if the person will never leave a nursing home. I’d rather die.

I think this is true for many who live alone, and in my area it is mostly widows.

[HORNET]

Sounds like someone wants to be the head honcho!

[HORNET]

Why not let each village or area do their own thing? This chart makes me think that I don’t care to just donate to a group that wants to control everything. Watch what you wish for!

[rustyp]

The medical world says for having a likely survival, the accepted maximum time delay before beginning CPR is 4 minutes. Beyond that, the chances go from low, to extremely rare plus having serious long term injury.
The numbers I have seen shows it is at least 6 minutes, and usually longer.

So having a community of people trained in CPR, all heading your way to fill the gap in time before the paramedics arrive, is going to make outcomes better. No question.
Having an AED also aids in monitoring the CPR process and issues voice directions to improve technique (rate and compression). It can also administer a shock if needed.

Now the paramedics arrive. I would welcome the paramedics to concentrate on doing advanced life support - administering drugs, oxygen, assessing for other treatments they can provide... instead of doing CPR themselves. Performing CPR is very tiring. Having many to share the work is the best way.

The overall goal is to increase the odds of survival, with the lowest amount of complications possible. The AED program does that.

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

[JMintzer]

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

If you read the other AED thread, you would know that protocol dictates that the initial responder starts CPR (if needed) and the SECOND volunteer responder gets the AED...

You just don't leave the person to die and wander off to fetch the AED...

[JMintzer]

Our village sent out an email suggesting what dollar amount was being requested per residence . There was a drop off box where a check could be placed. All was private. No one knew what percent actually participated or for that matter a need to know. We have the program and maintenance funds are solicited the same way.

Personally I think going door to door asking is intimidating.

When we first were moving in, someone stopped by and dropped off the information.. No pressure to give at that time.

Once I read thru the info, I decided it was a valuable program and I sent in a check...

[JMintzer]

Our village sent out an email suggesting what dollar amount was being requested per residence . There was a drop off box where a check could be placed. All was private. No one knew what percent actually participated or for that matter a need to know. We have the program and maintenance funds are solicited the same way.

Personally I think going door to door asking is intimidating.

Unfortunately, that only works if they have everyone's email...

[JMintzer]

Summary of Requirements
No legislation is currently in place for Florida. Anyone that obtains an Automated External Defibrillator (AED) is required to complete a course in cardiopulmonary resuscitation, successfully complete basic first aid training, and demonstrate proficient use of an AED.

Ok so do we have people qualified? What if we do and they are out for dinner at sumter landing or up north. Then what?
Does somebody have to be on call 24 hours?

It's not just "one or two" people in the neighborhood...

And if no one is available, unfortunately that means no one is available. There is no "on call"...

The same with EMTs. If they're available, they'll show up quickly. If they're already responding to other calls, you're gonna' have to wait a bit longer...

It's not meant to replace the EMTs. It there to be an adjunct, to "assist" the EMTs...

[JMintzer]

Have they asked for permission from the people involved “to post the facts”? If they have and the majority agreed, I’m for it. Otherwise, I see it as invasion of privacy. It is not that I haven’t paid for AEDs myself or that I don’t support the efforts of people who volunteer, I fully appreciate that. What I don’t like is the lack of sensitivity about trying to raise funds. It is natural to turn on someone who is trying to push you.

What "privacy" was invaded? Did they post names? If not, your post is invalid...

[JMintzer]

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

You timeline is completely wrong...

The correct sequence of events has been explained, multiple times...

[rustyp]

You timeline is completely wrong...

The correct sequence of events has been explained, multiple times...

OK give me actual fact based data of what the time is from the initial event to the actual shock reaching the victim's heart is in a voluntary neighborhood AED situation. - emphasis real data!

[neilbcox]

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

This is so far from the truth it is Truly unbelievable! You have no idea what the process is!! Go do your homework before you try to talk like an expert!

[JMintzer]

OK give me actual fact based data of what the time is from the initial event to the actual shock reaching the victim's heart is in a voluntary neighborhood AED situation. - emphasis real data!

Well, to start, the very first thing a responder does is rush to the home and start CPR (if needed)... A point you were unaware of (or conveniently ignored...). Since that has been explained, multiple times, I'm going with "option B"...

That alone proves your entire premise wrong...

[Bogie Shooter]

Unfortunately, that only works if they have everyone's email...
Well fortunately our village social organization did have the emails….thats how the coordinator decimates information.
The letter you mentioned seemed to work as well.

[neilbcox]

This is so far from the truth it is Truly unbelievable! You have no idea what the process is!! Go do your homework before you try to talk like an expert!

You are right Tom!

Another fact is the 911 dispatchers sends alerts to any registered responder within 1/2 mile of the downed person at the exact time they notify the first responders. All responders immediately go to the provided address on a map FIRST and start CPR. Other responders who responded will go pick up the AED unit and return immediately to the patient. In our Village it is a goal to arrive each cardiac arrest within 3 minutes. The assist limit is NOT 4 minutes. Now go do more homework!

[Velvet]

Well fortunately our village social organization did have the emails….thats how the coordinator decimates information.
The letter you mentioned seemed to work as well.

Yes, and we have a local directory, everyones’ phone numbers, emails, contacts. It’s voluntary and so far no one has selected not to be in it. The way we raised funds for AEDs was one EMS person (my direct neighbor) demonstrated the entire process in an emergency at the rec center. This was our neighborhood social and no one didn’t pay their share although some people offered to pay twice as much since they had 2 people living at their house. Which makes sense because the likely hood of someone needing it depends on how many people in the home.

[rustyp]

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

Well, to start, the very first thing a responder does is rush to the home and start CPR (if needed)... A point you were unaware of (or conveniently ignored...). Since that has been explained, multiple times, I'm going with "option B"...

That alone proves your entire premise wrong...

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

[Bill14564]

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

Your opinion is your opinion but it would be better to hear statistics from those involved with the program.

Some problems I see with your steps:
- Your step 5 is probably performed by the 911 operator and over an automated system, not a telephone
- Steps 6 and 7 are essentially instantaneous. The volunteer responders are not going to work through a long checklist in their head to digest the information and prepare to leave the house, they are likely to receive the alert and head out the door
- As of step 7, there are three efforts happening simultaneously: EMT response, CPR response, and AED response.
- There is no doubt in my mind that the CPR response can reach my neighbors faster than the EMT, it's a simple matter of distance
- We don't have AEDs so I can't guess how conveniently located they may be or how much time would be needed to find the closest unit (your steps 8 & 9)
- Step 10 is again almost instantaneous

Just because you can identify multiple steps doesn't mean the steps take any meaningful time to execute. I imagine I could describe the steps required to take a breath, something that can happen in less than a second, in enough detail that you couldn't hold your breath while reading all of them. Several of the steps listed take less than two seconds and take longer to read than to execute.

But again, it would be nice to get statistics from those with actual experience.

[Marathon Man]

OK, I'm jumping in. First, please stop calling it an "AED Program". It is a neighborhood Emergency Response Team program. Second, of course we are trained to start CCC (continuous chest compressions) after determining that is the correct thing to do. Responders have a list of duties that include much more than just fetching the AED.

I am seeing a lot of comments from those that clearly have no idea what is actually involved in these EMT programs. I find it irresponsible of them to risk influencing others with their uninformed comments. OK, have at me. I will still come to your home and help save your life.

[Maker]

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

Clearly OP is not familiar with how the process actually happens. Others have helped them understand how incorrect (and incomplete) that timeline is.

One major point being suggested is that the trained people responding are not capable of actually getting to the victim and performing CPR in a timely manner. That concept is ridiculous.
From the time the 911 operator gets the call, to the info being sent via Pulse Point simultaneously to the FD and all trained resident's phones near the call, and those residents begin heading to the location might take 15 seconds in the daytime. Obviously a little longer at night but still quickly. Neighbors will arrive and start CPR immediately. More people will arrive and all will pitch in with doing other tasks, and trading out who is actually hands on. CPR FIRST, ASAP. That's what happens to save a life.

Shortly, when another person arrives with an AED, it gets set up right away. Since it's a computer, it will analyze the heart rhythm and shock if necessary. Cannot do that via CPR.
AED also evaluates the quality of CPR being performed. It will say things like "press harder" or "press faster". There's no guessing about "is this the right form". No opinions. It's 100% factual information to direct people how to do CPR better. That equates to a more likely chance for a save.
Starting to understand the value of the AED yet?

This is the best response medical science has developed. It has success because of all the pieces are working together. Multiple people getting to patient quickly to immediately start CPR. Having state of the art equipment available to assist efforts. Having paramedics en-route to provide advanced life support when they get there.

Without the AED program, the patient likely would not receive CPR until the medics arrive. Most likely, things are already too late.

[JMintzer]

Well fortunately our village social organization did have the emails….thats how the coordinator decimates information.
The letter you mentioned seemed to work as well.

They have -everybody's- emails?

That's surprising, considering how protective some are about giving out their email...

[JMintzer]

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

Once again, you show you don't know how the program, nor the actual AED, works...

I (and others) have explained it to you. Sadly, we can't understand it for you...

EVERYONE in the AED program is trained in CPM. The AED is an adjunct to help insure that the CPR is being performed properly, as well as a defibrillator (if needed).

And no, you don't have to coordinate the volunteer's schedules. The call goes out to dozens (possibly more) of people...

And that "6 minute response time"? That is the average, under ideal conditions...

[JMintzer]

Clearly OP is not familiar with how the process actually happens. Others have helped them understand how incorrect (and incomplete) that timeline is.

One major point being suggested is that the trained people responding are not capable of actually getting to the victim and performing CPR in a timely manner. That concept is ridiculous.
From the time the 911 operator gets the call, to the info being sent via Pulse Point simultaneously to the FD and all trained resident's phones near the call, and those residents begin heading to the location might take 15 seconds in the daytime. Obviously a little longer at night but still quickly. Neighbors will arrive and start CPR immediately. More people will arrive and all will pitch in with doing other tasks, and trading out who is actually hands on. CPR FIRST, ASAP. That's what happens to save a life.

Shortly, when another person arrives with an AED, it gets set up right away. Since it's a computer, it will analyze the heart rhythm and shock if necessary. Cannot do that via CPR.
AED also evaluates the quality of CPR being performed. It will say things like "press harder" or "press faster". There's no guessing about "is this the right form". No opinions. It's 100% factual information to direct people how to do CPR better. That equates to a more likely chance for a save.
Starting to understand the value of the AED yet?

This is the best response medical science has developed. It has success because of all the pieces are working together. Multiple people getting to patient quickly to immediately start CPR. Having state of the art equipment available to assist efforts. Having paramedics en-route to provide advanced life support when they get there.

Without the AED program, the patient likely would not receive CPR until the medics arrive. Most likely, things are already too late.

An excellent explanation of the "timeline"!

Unfortunately, it will fall on -some- "deaf ears"...

[Shipping up to Boston]

All of this weeks long interpretation of this subject has had me hoping someone would drop the famous quote from Joe Pesci' character in My Cousin Vinny. After a brief nap at the defense table, he awakens and walks towards the jury....pointing to the DA and says "everything that guy just said is bull s*it"!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on these AED programs, and how many times have the units been used. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on car homeowner's insurance in my neighborhood, and how many times claims have been called in. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

Facts: not many. And yet we bear the costs of other neighborhoods who have called in insurance much more often. The roof scandal is a great example of that. Only a limited number of streets in The Villages participated in the fraud of unscrupulous roofers submitting the insurance claims on behalf of customers who didn't actually need new roofs. But all site-built homes in The Villages are feeling the fallout from that now.

Meanwhile, the people who genuinely do need a new roof - have to pay through the nose, because those unscrupulous roofers are no longer around to give cut rates to the consumer while submitting bloated prices to the insurance companies.

[Velvet]

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

I agree with you - unfortunately from a direct personal experience. The AED which was across from my house two houses down, so let’s say 60 steps away, arrived too late and these people were at home and came immediately. That does not mean the system never works, just don’t count on it alone.

I also slept with my door open, for the first time in my life. My EMS neighbor said to call 911 (and they call him as he is closest) because I was having a difficult time breathing from grief and shock. After losing what I valued most in life, burglary would have been a drop in the bucket. It was my neighbors, through their caring and kindness who really saved my life, and yes I would certainly fund an AED if they wanted one.

[JMintzer]

All of this weeks long interpretation of this subject has had me hoping someone would drop the famous quote from Joe Pesci' character in My Cousin Vinny. After a brief nap at the defense table, he awakens and walks towards the jury....pointing to the DA and says "everything that guy just said is bull s*it"!

That would most likely result in another movie.. National Lampoon's "Vacation"...

[JMintzer]

I agree with you - unfortunately from a direct personal experience. The AED which was across from my house two houses down, so let’s say 60 steps away, arrived too late and these people were at home and came immediately. That does not mean the system never works, just don’t count on it alone.

Who would ever "count on it alone"?

It doesn't get implemented until a call to "911" is made...

As I've explained, multiple times, it's an "adjunct" to the EMT response...

[Bogie Shooter]

They have -everybody's- emails?

That's surprising, considering how protective some are about giving out their email...

Not an issue……not everyone is paranoid.:a040:

OBTW only the association secretary has the emails. Quit looking for a flaw!

[rustyp]

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

An excellent explanation of the "timeline"!

Unfortunately, it will fall on -some- "deaf ears"...

Look above at my original post re AED response time! Some unfortunately will fall upon non comprehensive reading skills.

[Marathon Man]

Who would ever "count on it alone"?

It doesn't get implemented until a call to "911" is made...

As I've explained, multiple times, it's an "adjunct" to the EMT response...

You are trying very hard to get people to understand how the system works. It appears that there are some who do not want to let go of their pre-conceived, uninformed thoughts.

My concern is that their comments may influence others and negatively affect a neighborhood's ability to implement a program. A life could be lost because people became convinced that it was not needed. That would be a genuine shame.

[retiredguy123]

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on car homeowner's insurance in my neighborhood, and how many times claims have been called in. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

Facts: not many. And yet we bear the costs of other neighborhoods who have called in insurance much more often. The roof scandal is a great example of that. Only a limited number of streets in The Villages participated in the fraud of unscrupulous roofers submitting the insurance claims on behalf of customers who didn't actually need new roofs. But all site-built homes in The Villages are feeling the fallout from that now.

Meanwhile, the people who genuinely do need a new roof - have to pay through the nose, because those unscrupulous roofers are no longer around to give cut rates to the consumer while submitting bloated prices to the insurance companies.
If you don't have a mortgage, homeowner's insurance is optional. If you think it is too expensive, then don't buy it.

[BobnBev]

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?

[Bogie Shooter]

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?

Life has winners and losers………….

[birdbob]

We have an AED program in our neighborhood. A huge part of the program is having neighbors trained as responders. That training is centered on CPR, but also includes AED usage. If 6 minutes is an average, then obviously there are response times greater than that. We have had several call-outs for actual cardiac events since our program was initiated, and never once have the paramedics gotten to the scene before the neighborhood responders. I am very thankful to live in a Village with neighbors who care about each other.


Thanks for the Actual data...
For me, It is a 13 minute drive from the closest firehouse (assuming they aren't out on another call).
Looking forward to implementing our neighborhood Emergency Response program!

[Shipping up to Boston]

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?

If you called 911, and no one came to the door to open....i would think a quick due diligence of the windows....the doors coming down! Unless there were contingencies on file. They can deal with the mail order attorney later

[Bill14564]

If you called 911, and no one came to the door to open....i would think a quick due diligence of the windows....the doors coming down! Unless there were contingencies on file. They can deal with the mail order attorney later

Is that what you learned in your ERT training session? Is it professional legal advice? Or is it just your opinion without the mail order service?

[Two Bills]

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?

Don't most 911 operators stay with a person in such an emergency, ask if the door is open for access, and if not, or they lost contact with the caller, notify responders, whom after being informed, would act accordingly, and gain/force entry.

Most of the front doors of properties we rented would open with a credit card, let alone a hefty size 12 boot.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Is that what you learned in your ERT training session? Is it professional legal advice? Or is it just your opinion without the mail order service?

I was addressing it from E 911 uniformed response scenario. Happens all the time. Not neighborhood ERT. As his/her neighbor, me...not ERT, would break in the door. Have had to in the past as non uniformed for a neighbor (outside TV of course). Here in TV, an especially litigious society, I'd do the same and deal with the noise later. Again sir, not as a member of the neighborhood ERT!

[JMintzer]

Not an issue……not everyone is paranoid.:a040:

OBTW only the association secretary has the emails. Quit looking for a flaw!

Who's looking for a flaw?

Certainly not me! I'm one of the biggest proponent of the program!

I just was making a comment about how some people are loathe to give out their email. I see it daily, in my practice...

[JMintzer]

You are trying very hard to get people to understand how the system works. It appears that there are some who do not want to let go of their pre-conceived, uninformed thoughts.

My concern is that their comments may influence others and negatively affect a neighborhood's ability to implement a program. A life could be lost because people became convinced that it was not needed. That would be a genuine shame.

And THAT is why I am trying "very hard" to get people to understand how the system works!

I've been "unlucky" enough to have performed CPR on several occasions.

It's very stressful for the responders. Thank god, they all survived (but one succumbed to a 2nd MI later that evening...)

I hope that no one has to go thru that (either as a patient or as a volunteer...)

[JMintzer]

Don't most 911 operators stay with a person in such an emergency, ask if the door is open for access, and if not, or they lost contact with the caller, notify responders, whom after being informed, would act accordingly, and gain/force entry.

Most of the front doors of properties we rented would open with a credit card, let alone a hefty size 12 boot.

Please... Don't confuse the issue with factual information...

[Shipping up to Boston]

Please... Don't confuse the issue with factual information...

A lot of friendly fire on this one my friend. They've been on this for so many weeks...theyve stopped reading before posting. Like you, I've been nothing but supportive of the volunteers. Maybe theyre keeping this thread open for the advertisers to chime in!

[Bogie Shooter]

Who's looking for a flaw?

Certainly not me! I'm one of the biggest proponent of the program!

I just was making a comment about how some people are loathe to give out their email. I see it daily, in my practice...

Sorry didn’t mean to step on your toes.

[JMintzer]

Sorry didn’t mean to step on your toes.

https://media.tenor.com/NNaHtYbouSYAAAAM/laughing.gif

[Moderator]

Please return to topic of thread AED Collection

[Retiring]

I’m in the village of St. Catherine. I recall we were asked to donate $250. I know there are those on fixed incomes that simply can’t spare $250. so I gave $500. I ask those in the villages gathering funds for AEDs, if you can spare more than requested please do so. Yes, some will not donate because they don’t believe in AEDs, some will not donate because they’re cheap but some really can’t afford to. It is for the latter that you would be donating a little extra.

[Michael 61]

Our villa community quickly solicited donations and installed a unit months after being built in early 2023 - I think most contributed, but it was made known which owners failed to contribute - that part I didn’t care for. I try and stay clear of anything that “divides” neighbors, or something that could be used as fodder for “gossip”.

[JMintzer]

Our villa community quickly solicited donations and installed a unit months after being built in early 2023 - I think most contributed, but it was made known which owners failed to contribute - that part I didn’t care for. I try and stay clear of anything that “divides” neighbors, or something that could be used as fodder for “gossip”.

Whomever disclosed the names of those who donated vs those who didn't should be ashamed of themselves...

[Kenswing]

I’m in the village of St. Catherine. I recall we were asked to donate $250. I know there are those on fixed incomes that simply can’t spare $250. so I gave $500. I ask those in the villages gathering funds for AEDs, if you can spare more than requested please do so. Yes, some will not donate because they don’t believe in AEDs, some will not donate because they’re cheap but some really can’t afford to. It is for the latter that you would be donating a little extra.
The residents of St. Catherine were asked to contribute $100. Like yourself many contributed more. We had fantastic participation, not only financially but also in volunteers to run the program and volunteers to be trained in CPR and the proper use of the AED.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Whomever disclosed the names of those who donated vs those who didn't should be ashamed of themselves...

Agree
The graphic that was posted on this thread earlier only showed streets and percentages in terms of participation. I was ok with that. To hear that specific names were distributed ....as if to embarrass neighbors smacks of petty retaliation. Those responsible should not be the figureheads....nor allowed to participate in such a program that is based on competence, respect for others in need and compassionate care. Embarrassing

[Retiring]

The residents of St. Catherine were asked to contribute $100. Like yourself many contributed more. We had fantastic participation, not only financially but also in volunteers to run the program and volunteers to be trained in CPR and the proper use of the AED.

Thank you for the clarification. I guess I covered for 4 others that were not able to contribute.

[rustyp]

Thank you for the clarification. I guess I covered for 4 others that were not able to contribute.

And that's why they named the thread "guilt" ?

[JMintzer]

And that's why they named the thread "guilt" ?

Where is the "guilt" in paying extra to help others?

[Dusty_Star]

Agree
The graphic that was posted on this thread earlier only showed streets and percentages in terms of participation. I was ok with that. To hear that specific names were distributed ....as if to embarrass neighbors smacks of petty retaliation. Those responsible should not be the figureheads....nor allowed to participate in such a program that is based on competence, respect for others in need and compassionate care. Embarrassing

Absolutely agree. The Villa neighborhood should hold a rebellion & displace the poor decision makers. They can even quote you for the reason 'a program based on competence, respect & compassion'

[rustyp]

Where is the "guilt" in paying extra to help others?

Posting paying extra accomplished what ? That is not how the secret Santa game is played. That is exactly what this thread was about - are we shaming others for whatever reason they did not contribute ? The thread started with a slide of who contributed by sections (cut to fairly small levels) of the St John's neighborhood. Not a good way to promote unity. Was not the purpose of the slide to promote quilt ? If not what - ego trip ? Publishing a slide with where the entire neighborhood was relative to the goal would be appropriate. Of what value was cutting the data down to the street level ? Maybe the intent is to prioritize response by contribution (LOL).

[Velvet]

Posting paying extra accomplished what ? That is not how the secret Santa game is played. That is exactly what this thread was about - are we shaming others for whatever reason they did not contribute ? The thread started with a slide of who contributed by sections (cut to fairly small levels) of the St John's neighborhood. Not a good way to promote unity. Was not the purpose of the slide to promote quilt ? If not what - ego trip ? Publishing a slide with where the entire neighborhood was relative to the goal would be appropriate. Of what value was cutting the data down to the street level ? Maybe the intent is to prioritize response by contribution (LOL).

I suspect, rustyp , that you are correct.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Posting paying extra accomplished what ? That is not how the secret Santa game is played. That is exactly what this thread was about - are we shaming others for whatever reason they did not contribute ? The thread started with a slide of who contributed by sections (cut to fairly small levels) of the St John's neighborhood. Not a good way to promote unity. Was not the purpose of the slide to promote quilt ? If not what - ego trip ? Publishing a slide with where the entire neighborhood was relative to the goal would be appropriate. Of what value was cutting the data down to the street level ? Maybe the intent is to prioritize response by contribution (LOL).

Wonder if this is an issue for Buttonwood! ;)

[JMintzer]

Posting paying extra accomplished what ? That is not how the secret Santa game is played. That is exactly what this thread was about - are we shaming others for whatever reason they did not contribute ? The thread started with a slide of who contributed by sections (cut to fairly small levels) of the St John's neighborhood. Not a good way to promote unity. Was not the purpose of the slide to promote quilt ? If not what - ego trip ? Publishing a slide with where the entire neighborhood was relative to the goal would be appropriate. Of what value was cutting the data down to the street level ? Maybe the intent is to prioritize response by contribution (LOL).

The poster just posted what they did. You read it. Mission accomplished...

To assign some nefarious reason for it is silly...

[Retiring]

Posting paying extra accomplished what ? That is not how the secret Santa game is played. That is exactly what this thread was about - are we shaming others for whatever reason they did not contribute ? The thread started with a slide of who contributed by sections (cut to fairly small levels) of the St John's neighborhood. Not a good way to promote unity. Was not the purpose of the slide to promote quilt ? If not what - ego trip ? Publishing a slide with where the entire neighborhood was relative to the goal would be appropriate. Of what value was cutting the data down to the street level ? Maybe the intent is to prioritize response by contribution (LOL).

Mr. rustyp, you have completely missed the purpose of my post. It was two fold, first you CAN donate more than the voluntary assessment and secondly it was a reminder that not everyone has spare cash lying around. The stereotype that everyone in TV is a billionaire is highly overestimated. I disagree with the chart of “non-contributors” for that very reason. We don’t know why some don’t contribute so it’s unfair to point fingers. However, in fairness to the OP, I don’t think they have published actual names of those that contribute or don’t contribute. How one can feel guilty for helping those that can’t help themselves is a new one, only on TOTV.

[Velvet]

I’ve read rustyp’s post completely differently.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I’ve read rustyp’s post completely differently.

Agree

[rustyp]

I’ve read rustyp’s post completely differently.

Congratulations - you are smarter than the average bear.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Maybe an organizer of the program in Richmond can respond as to whether they posted the names of those that chose not to contribute....and why? If they didn’t, non issue.

[neilbcox]

If you called 911, and no one came to the door to open....i would think a quick due diligence of the windows....the doors coming down! Unless there were contingencies on file. They can deal with the mail order attorney later

First…Thank you for your military service!

When you call 911 in The Villages a dispatcher will answer your call. They will establish knowledge of what is happening and electronically notify the correct emergency teams. If this caller informs the dispatcher that the person they are calling has NO pulse and NO breathing (called a cardio arrest event) the dispatcher will immediately notify both The Villages Medical Emergency Rescue teams at the same time they will notify all village trained responders that live within 1/2 mile from the patient with a text message from Pulse Point Application to respond. This Pulse Point shows on a Map where the patient is located and the closest AED system from them. On an average in 2023 in the Villages have 6.28 responders going to every Cardio Arrest event (66 events). In our Village all responders will show up at the emergency property within a targeted 3 minute response and immediately start CPR while one of the responders will go retrieve an AED unit and brings it back to the emergency property. FYI…when CPR is done right it can be exhausting so with other responders there at the home they will take turns administering CPR.

Please note that the villages trained responders will only be dispatched to Cardio Arrest Events. The AED responders are NOT trained to treat heart attacks or stokes. We are not trained to issue any injection medications…EMRs are trained to do this work. All dispatchers stay on line with the 911 caller asking them to turn porch lights on and unlock the doors.

An example for December 2023 The Villages totally, there were 18 cardiac Arrest with 16 AED group cardiac arrests.

Hope this clarifies The Villages AED program!

[Kenswing]

First…Thank you for your military service!

When you call 911 in The Villages a dispatcher will answer your call. They will establish knowledge of what is happening and electronically notify the correct emergency teams. If this caller informs the dispatcher that the person they are calling has NO pulse and NO breathing (called a cardio arrest event) the dispatcher will immediately notify both The Villages Medical Emergency Rescue teams at the same time they will notify all village trained responders that live within 1/2 mile from the patient with a text message from Pulse Point Application to respond. This Pulse Point shows on a Map where the patient is located and the closest AED system from them. On an average in 2023 in the Villages have 6.28 responders going to every Cardio Arrest event (66 events). In our Village all responders will show up at the emergency property within a targeted 3 minute response and immediately start CPR while one of the responders will go retrieve an AED unit and brings it back to the emergency property. FYI…when CPR is done right it can be exhausting so with other responders there at the home they will take turns administering CPR.

Please note that the villages trained responders will only be dispatched to Cardio Arrest Events. The AED responders are NOT trained to treat heart attacks or stokes. We are not trained to issue any injection medications…EMRs are trained to do this work. All dispatchers stay on line with the 911 caller asking them to turn porch lights on and unlock the doors.

An example for December 2023 The Villages totally, there were 18 cardiac Arrest with 16 AED group cardiac arrests.

Hope this clarifies The Villages AED program!
That’s how it works for SOME Villages AED programs. We have Ready Alert. We do not dispatch everyone within a half mile. We dispatch the responders within a defined zone. We have over 100 responders in our village. We don’t want them all showing up. In fact once the first seven show up we start turning people away. In our response we stop and grab any AED on our way to the incident. It takes about 20 seconds. Again since we’re dispatching a defined zone not all 19 of our AED’s are going to get picked up. We leave the box door open so anyone that follows can see that it’s already been picked up. We average under 2 minutes for a responder to arrive and under 2.5 minutes for an AED to arrive. We almost always have two or more AED’s show up. The bottom line is we get people and equipment there very quickly. But you need to realize that not every program works the same.