Install (Bolt Down) a Small Safe in a Bedroom Closet

[McClendons]

I have a new constuction house in the Village of Lake Denham. I am hoping to bolt down a small Sentry safe in the one of the bedrooms using something like Red Hat fastners or Tapicon bolts. In researching, I ran across a couple of questions I am hoping someone will have insight on.

Does anyone know if the Villages uses normal rebar based concrete slabs, or have they gone to Post Tensioned Concrete? Clearly it would be a disaster to drill into an Pre Tensioned cable, so am very concerned there. I would only need to drill at most 1.5 to 2 inches deep, so not too worried about plumbing etc that should be deeper, but from research it looks like tension cables can be any depth.

For anyone that has installed a safe, any insights on where and how you intstalled yours? I tried searching, but using the word "safe" got me anything from AEDs, golf cars, restaurants, etc. Thanks in advance.

[villagetinker]

As I recall, the only rebar is in the footers generally around the perimeter of the house, but possibly also in the location of any load bearing interior walls. The floor has a steel grid imbedded. Now if you want the exact details, you should be able to get your actual house plans from the local building department these have all of the details on the house. I was able to get the complete set for our house (16 pages) from Sumter County at no cost several years ago.

[Stu from NYC]

Would a metal detector tell you what is down there?

[villagetinker]

Would a metal detector tell you what is down there?

Possibly, but it would not know the difference between metal screening (6" by 6" or so) from 1/2 inch rebar, and I doubt it would be accurate enough. In any case since the op mentioned screws less than 2 inches they will probably not hit anything.

[Altavia]

No screen and minimal rebar in the floors, they typically pour a single slab, including the garage floor, on top of plastic sitting on a layer of clay.

The concrete includes granite aggregate which is much stronger than limestone and allows then to start building block walls a couple of days after pouring the slab.

A hammer drill and concrete lag bolts can be used secure the safe.

There are water and sewer lines under the slab so don't drill more than 4" deep.

[villagetinker]

I stand corrected, I pulled up my house plans (I was sure there was steel mesh in the floor), there is NO steel mesh in the floor, minimum floor thickness is 4 inches, 3000PSI concrete, and apparently just some additional attachments for load bearing interior walls.

So to the OP, go ahead and drill away for your safe.

[dewilson58]

No rebar in floors.

[MandoMan]

I have a new constuction house in the Village of Lake Denham. I am hoping to bolt down a small Sentry safe in the one of the bedrooms using something like Red Hat fastners or Tapicon bolts. In researching, I ran across a couple of questions I am hoping someone will have insight on.

Does anyone know if the Villages uses normal rebar based concrete slabs, or have they gone to Post Tensioned Concrete? Clearly it would be a disaster to drill into an Pre Tensioned cable, so am very concerned there. I would only need to drill at most 1.5 to 2 inches deep, so not too worried about plumbing etc that should be deeper, but from research it looks like tension cables can be any depth.

For anyone that has installed a safe, any insights on where and how you intstalled yours? I tried searching, but using the word "safe" got me anything from AEDs, golf cars, restaurants, etc. Thanks in advance.

A couple years ago I considered installing a safe in my house. I discovered that there are various kinds. A safe to protect documents in a fire does so by chemical means, hidden in the walls of the safe. But generally these are pretty easy to break into. They are often simply thin double walls easy to drill through. There have been a lot of problems, it seems, with humidity in documents in the safe leading to mold problems, at least in Florida. They also aren’t much use if the house floods if they are on or in the floor.

Safes meant for valuables like jewelry generally aren’t much help in fires or floods. Often unattached safes can be lifted into a vehicle and opened in privacy elsewhere, even sizable gun safes. A small safe screwed into a concrete slab with a couple bolts can often be broken loose in a few seconds with a hundred dollar hammer drill from Harbor Freight or a six foot pry par and a sledge hammer.

However, any of these might offer some security against a snatch-and-grab sneak thief who doesn’t carry any tools except maybe a small crow bar and wants to be in and out in five minutes.

[defrey12]

A couple years ago I considered installing a safe in my house. I discovered that there are various kinds. A safe to protect documents in a fire does so by chemical means, hidden in the walls of the safe. But generally these are pretty easy to break into. They are often simply thin double walls easy to drill through. There have been a lot of problems, it seems, with humidity in documents in the safe leading to mold problems, at least in Florida. They also aren’t much use if the house floods if they are on or in the floor.

Safes meant for valuables like jewelry generally aren’t much help in fires or floods. Often unattached safes can be lifted into a vehicle and opened in privacy elsewhere, even sizable gun safes. A small safe screwed into a concrete slab with a couple bolts can often be broken loose in a few seconds with a hundred dollar hammer drill from Harbor Freight or a six foot pry par and a sledge hammer.

However, any of these might offer some security against a snatch-and-grab sneak thief who doesn’t carry any tools except maybe a small crow bar and wants to be in and out in five minutes.

Just thinking out loud here, but I sleep pretty well at night knowing my valuables and documents are SAFE in my bank’s safe deposit box. If you need to sleep next to your gun you have other issues, IMO. As the post above referenced, gun safes are easily removed. This is TV, not NJ, Chicago or NY…lock your doors and you’ll be fine. Just don’t advertise on FACEBOOK when you’re taking a trip or that you own an antique S&W or Grandma’s diamonds!

[TROOPER01]

Not the smartest move, Sentry ( they are not safes ) can be opened with a can opener === I sold them for years in my Locksmith shop

[JRcorvette]

Why not just use epoxy glue if it is a small safe in the closet. Also installs a wireless alarm system like Simply Safe or one of the others! The Villages is a fairly safe place to live. If someone does break in they are looking for a quick grab and exit. I don’t know of anyone who has had their safe broken into of stolen.

[BlackHarley]

So y'all sold junk ?

[vintageogauge]

Get a larger heavy real safe and that way you have longer fire protection as well as storage for papers, valuables, cash, etc. It would take at least 3 strong men and a large dolly to remove it. Better yet get a good monitored security system or a bank lock box.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

meh, if the safe is for papers, scan them and store them in several places, including your kids, if you have them, or the future executor of your estate from your legal paperwork, including your heirs.

If there are physical items, and they just sit in the safe, the better answer is to pre-decease give them to your estate heirs now, and let them enjoy them, saving costs, security, and peace of mind that they got to their final destination properly. Makes life easier and since you can't take them with you anyway. . . .

but that is just me, who after my dad passed away, i realized that he had accumulated a lot of nice to him stuff, memories of 50-100 years ago, but they have little to zero meaning to me. I am not from that era and doesn't fit into lifestyle and house style. A piece or two I will retain, but even my son and daughter have zero interest in most stuff which is old, after the antique market has collapsed for the most part. My two brothers only want a few pieces. . .

Best wishes for success in your plans

[Lisanp@aol.com]

Take a ride to Shady Brook and look at the foundations being poured today? That will be the same methods as what was done in a Lake Denham house (with Tilt Wall?). Any other experiences will not be with the newest construction methods in place.

[virtue51]

Rent a safe deposit box at a bank.

[Sgt Ed]

Possibly, but it would not know the difference between metal screening (6" by 6" or so) from 1/2 inch rebar, and I doubt it would be accurate enough. In any case since the op mentioned screws less than 2 inches they will probably not hit anything. Not hold anything down either.

[srctink]

[I have a safe in my closet. I could have bolted it down, but it weighs over 100 lbs and I didn't think it was necessary. I just put things in front of it, so it's not visible.

QUOTE=McClendons;2317485]I have a new constuction house in the Village of Lake Denham. I am hoping to bolt down a small Sentry safe in the one of the bedrooms using something like Red Hat fastners or Tapicon bolts. In researching, I ran across a couple of questions I am hoping someone will have insight on.

Does anyone know if the Villages uses normal rebar based concrete slabs, or have they gone to Post Tensioned Concrete? Clearly it would be a disaster to drill into an Pre Tensioned cable, so am very concerned there. I would only need to drill at most 1.5 to 2 inches deep, so not too worried about plumbing etc that should be deeper, but from research it looks like tension cables can be any depth.

For anyone that has installed a safe, any insights on where and how you intstalled yours? I tried searching, but using the word "safe" got me anything from AEDs, golf cars, restaurants, etc. Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

[lawgolfer]

I don't know the size of the safe you plan to install. However, any safe installed on the floor will be very inconvenient. Also, it would be fairly easy to break it free from the concrete with a crowbar--once you move a lag bolt set in concrete a fraction of an inch, it breaks free from the concrete. Hitting the safe on the side with a sledge hammer would also break it free from the floor.

If you're installing a small safe such as the Sentry .58 cu ft or the .98 cu ft models, consider what I did in our house up north. I installed it in a closet on a shelf with the safe tight in the corner against two walls with studs. You can then screw lag bolts into the wall studs on two sides and bolt it to the shelf using carriage bolts with the round head on the bottom of the shelf and the nut inside the safe.

A determined thief will be able to remove the safe; however, it would require a lot of work and a reciprocating saw to cut through a double stud at the corner and the shelf. As was mentioned by the former locksmith in one of the replies, these small safes can be opened with a can opener (not really). Probably, it would be easier to cut into the safe with a reciprocating saw than to cut through a double stud and the shelf.

For a secure home safe, you would have to go to your garage and have a contractor cut a large hole through the concrete floor and then set a high quality floor safe in new concrete. If you have jewelry and important papers etc that are so valuable that you need a safe of that quality, you would be better off renting a safe deposit box at a bank.

[McClendons]

Thanks to those that gave some good insightful ideas! Yes, I know the small safes are not foolproof, but will slow an average Joe crook down a little. If I used the logic of some, I would not lock front doors, cars doors etc ---they are all easy to get into.........I am looking to make it a little harder.

[Full-timer]

I have a new constuction house in the Village of Lake Denham. I am hoping to bolt down a small Sentry safe in the one of the bedrooms using something like Red Hat fastners or Tapicon bolts. In researching, I ran across a couple of questions I am hoping someone will have insight on.

Does anyone know if the Villages uses normal rebar based concrete slabs, or have they gone to Post Tensioned Concrete? Clearly it would be a disaster to drill into an Pre Tensioned cable, so am very concerned there. I would only need to drill at most 1.5 to 2 inches deep, so not too worried about plumbing etc that should be deeper, but from research it looks like tension cables can be any depth.

For anyone that has installed a safe, any insights on where and how you intstalled yours? I tried searching, but using the word "safe" got me anything from AEDs, golf cars, restaurants, etc. Thanks in advance.

I am sure you will be fine. But personally, posting that you are adding a safe to your home on an open site, (here, FB, or any other ) may not be the best thing to do. Anyone can see what "you " intend to do and also know it isn't done yet.

Better to be over cautious than not. For sure you are not in your prime for defending yourself, you live in TV.

Good luck.